Archive talk:Team - 7 Hero Discordway

Cookie cutter build for anything in pve. Pretty much so we can archive spiritual discordway and maybe 2 man since no one should be running more than 3-4 discords these days-- Relyk  talk  02:54, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * no Dissonance on SoGM rit?Illoyon 15:00, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Change SoGM hero for necro Razah for additional Discord?-- ValeV 666 23:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't need more than 3 discords to spike. The SoGM will add much more damage and utility than another discord. Edit: It's in variants anyway, huh. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 01:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Meta
It is run by a lot of players. Not optimal, but the usual choice among less skilled players since proper aggro management is less critical (compare with RoJway, etc.). -- Toraen TheJanitor 21:27, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

We can have 4 necros now, because of Razah - a tip :P -- God  Kamil  10:45, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * read toraen's first post-- Relyk 10:48, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I use this, its not a spike setup but it can withstand lots of pressure from multiple groups and dispatches mobs quite quickly too:

Any/ --124.170.8.160 09:08, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Real mm?
I would take 1 real MM (AoTL) over the SoGM rit. Real MM gives alot higher DN dmg as well as better minion walls. The extra dmg from SoGM over the extra dmg of DN isnt worth the sacrifice of the minionwall strength. Consider lvl 21 minions vs lvl 12-14 minions. If u still want spirits and are lulz, take spirits in optional slot on current mm and take prots on the AoTL MM. That way you can have both strong minions and the so beloved spirits :D82.72.102.207 07:18, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Aura of the lich is a very anti-social necromancer skill - uses all corpses within earshot depriving your other heroes of minions so less energy to go around with less low level minions dying. I'd recommend you remove the minion skill from the healer bar if you do change the sogm for aotl. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain  Alex  09:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If you want a Minion wall, you clearly want the AI to attack those minions. Minions with a level higher than your own really does not help to abuse this enemy AI. It is a bad skill. You also do not have a problem maintaining minions with Animate Bone Minions. If the problem is that your other heroes are stealing, then AotL won't fix anything. In conclusion, AotL and other minion elites are wasted. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 10:27, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * @ minion, That is pretty much shortminded, if I may say so. The AI still targets my minions more then enough (usually playing imbagon so heros got +100AL), and I dont like my wall to break apart midbattle (after 4 secs*). It is indeed my intention to skip the other mm skills, maybe keep one copy of shamblings. Anyhow, you are still trading dmg for dmg + more protection.82.72.102.207 17:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, if you don't want your wall to break during battle, why are you taking Death Nova? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 18:20, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Because he needs it to get back (some)the damage he lost dropping the SoGM 65.191.246.62 05:54, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Spirits > Minions in terms of damage, a minion wall is a great way to mitigate damage and gives you some Death Nova damage, but nothing more really. You should never sacrifice spirits for minions. You're also getting the most value out of the builds by putting the minions on the discord bars, since you'r already speccing into Death Magic. Taking a dedicated MM isn't optimal in this case. Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 10:25, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Gotta agree with Vorpal on that one 65.191.246.62 17:35, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am one of the less skilled players enjoying this build. I don't know how to upload a template, so please excuse the length of this (or feel free to edit and add in if it bothers you).  I run myself (using the build on the main page) as a 4th Discord necro/mesmer maxing curses and death magic with the rest in Soul Reaping.  I use: Sig. of Lost Souls, Ebon VG. Support, Discord, Rec. Haste, Weaken Armor, Enf. Blood, Mark of Pain, and Arcane Echo so I can double spam Discord or spike a healer with 2 assassins.  With soul reaping and Sig. of Lost souls I can spread a lot of conditions and hexes over a long fight - I purposely chose 3 which spread beyond the initial target.  I am sure there are better abilities to throw in and I would love some comments (I currently do not have high ranks in all my title tracks).Ghual Zulu 21:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)Ghual Zulu

Fixed so it's easier to read. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]   22:29, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, though I see even after checking my original post 4 times I still made a mistake. I have changed Arcane Mimicry to Arcane Echo..sorry for the confusion and thanks for posting the graphic - I need to read up on how to do that.  I do not have them on my bar in the order listed, but you get the idea.Ghual Zulu 01:03, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Razah
We should probably list good memser and 4th discord builds for him. I was thinking a copy/paste Esurge (with note similar to the illusion mes that elite can be swapped for Stolen Speed/PI/etc.) for the mesmer option, and a Discord with three-four optional slots for whatever secondary you want to give him. Each of the three options has its perks, and should all be fleshed out. --  Toraen   talk  02:09, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Idea: Just fill in/mod these bars to something good: /Any 4th Discord

/Any Esurge Mesmer

and then stick them on the page for Razah. --  Toraen   talk  02:48, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess no one cares. But if this is going to stay, the above should be done and also the first discord needs to drop resto and bring something more useful (preferably offensive). Three sets of resto is completely unnecessary. -- Toraen   confer  07:31, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Making this Great
Something people are missing about Discord is, though it is simply Single-Target damage, it's not the only skill on the bar. It's annoying but true, this bar has everything. Those who downvote it because they dislike Discord are lobbying. The SoGM is a wasted slot though; take an esurge mesmer for more AoE. Two copies of Fall Back would improve it greatly, too. ~  Ӎiñon  21:04, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Bringing Discord means you're not bringing better damage skills and you're tying up three heroes with Death Magic. Just having some of "everything" doesn't make a team great. Any AoE-focused setup outperforms this. It's not lobbying that keeps this build from being rated great, it's the build's own shortcomings. -- Toraen   confer  21:35, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What I find interesting is people believe Discord was amazing in h/h days, but now think it's utter crap. It's actually the other way around in that you can fix better it's glaring issues (AoE damage). Those bars need fixing, but it's no worse than 7HPS or RoJway for speed (if you added fall backs). ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 21:41, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Update and rw
This build needs it. See Toraen's post above now that Zei Ri is available. The sogm rit needs to be dropped for more damage, like providing an option for a 4th discord or esurge. I think we can either drop one the of the discord healers for command. There's also using Deathly Swarm now, I'm not sure it's advantageous here since your kill pushing is purely discord. This is a helpful post: guru thread. It's a more modern version, ignoring the defensefag UA monk. The bars could be updated to something similar. Discordway is more for cspace PvE, but there's always people that use it for high-end.-- Relyk 03:32, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, 7 hero discord needs an update. i've switched out the Communing rit for an ESurge mesmer for some more AoE. Dacookiemaster 18:36, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * this breaks rule #1: don't put long (esp. resto) resses on healers in 8-man. restos need SoLS. as said above, 3 restos is a waste and this still needs "FB!"


 * don't need Zei Ri for update, and still not sure why they choose shambling instead of bone minions. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 22:48, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Surely replacing a Discord with IV would be better, helps with AoE and another primer for Discord? (eg on the "Curse Resto" on the main page, seriously what the fuck even is that attrib spread; other than fucking retarded.) Pew   Pew ♥   22:56, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Drop Recovery
There's 3 copies of MB&S in the party, and plenty of spirits. I'm going to change out the recovery spirit for Animate Shambling Horror. It'll add more stability to the team, and having minions on a third separate hero makes aoe less effective in wiping minions. It also makes the energy gain from minion deaths a little bit more consistent for the necro heroes. --Supernick530 03:07, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you looking at the current build overview? I changed them to convey what you said already. Look at those and give opinions. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 03:09, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * why 3 restos? try to keep fomf off healers, that's what mesmers are for &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 20:22, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks odd, but I have no idea what would be at all useful on the second Discord's bar instead of the resto junk. Feel free to change it. Mesmers need Fall Backs. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 20:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Archive?
Discordway is a cool 3 hero comp, but I don't think the 7 hero version is recommendable. Especially since it's geared towards casters, where triple mesmer midlines reign supreme. --Xanshiz (talk) 02:18, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Juniper's recent testing (using the triple mesmer variant) makes it sound like the team has some merits and we should at least try to improve it before deciding on an archival. It performed better than the dual ele setups, comparably but slightly worse (judging from completion times) than Build:Team - 7 Hero RoJway. It was less stable than modern mesmerways, but still faster than Build:Team - 7 Hero BiP Caster Support. It looks like there's potential in this despite not using the ever so popular communing prot because of minion bombing. --Krschkr (talk) 02:31, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I vote to archive. you can't reliably combine melee minions with ST, and if you get rid of minions then you are stuck with high death magic spec necros with very little purpose. I think that there is a chance to save it though, if you compare this and 7 Hero Dual Mesmer Discord, and find a way to make 3x discord work. Willarddog (talk) 03:29, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Another idea is to throw it back into testing to work on it collaboratively Willarddog (talk) 03:48, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Updated Discord Project. I likely won't be working on it anymore in the future, but it has a pretty encompassing view of what an updated team could look like Willarddog (talk) 19:26, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Well the timer is now set. Either we propose an update to this within 2 weeks or give it the rest it deserves. Toraen (talk) 13:34, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Just Archive it. Don't trash it. It deserves better. It holds good historical value, but it needs to leave the vetted buildspace. God forbid someone actually try this out over something better. I don't care too much if the builds itself go away, as I have the basic template summary on my Discord Project linked above under the "Historical Variants" section. While its a more long-term project, I do plan on finishing it at some point. Interest simply goes up and down over time, and I don't always feel like working on it. Willarddog (talk) 18:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Long standing builds that fall to trash have tended to be archived. There's just a 2 week period where we see if any improvements can be made (or more relevantly, if anyone even wants to do that). I forgot to put the archive-pending tag on when I changed the vetting tag, but I'll do that now. Toraen (talk) 06:26, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As the page was a vetted build for a long time it'd be moved to the archive and not get deleted, even without being tagged for an archival. --Krschkr (talk) 14:55, 3 April 2021 (UTC)