User talk:Shireen/archive3

As Long As You're On
Could you review PvXwiki:Build Master Status Requests? Thanks. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  21:37, 1 July 2007 (CEST)

Cleanup
Mind explaining what exactly in [] needs cleaning, not quite sure what you're getting at. I thought I made it quite concise. --Ckal Ktak 22:52, 1 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Not enough Content. Saying cast VoS and attack, isn't a build. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 22:57, 1 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Improved? Or needs more? --Ckal Ktak 23:13, 1 July 2007 (CEST)

famine/smite
how is it a stub? - Skakid9090 04:46, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

The presentation of the build needs to be better consolidated explination. It mainly needs a better consolodated usage section, so I don't have to read the entire page and piecemail the whole team concept together. You explain nothing of the subtleties of this team unit. Make it easier to read and understand and give it a better 'overview' section without having to bounce all over the place. With team builds you need to be more explanitive as there are a LOT more moving parts than just a standard build. Also explain where it can be used and how to use it in those areas. I appologise if this is aggrivating, but I am cracking down to greatly improve article quality on this site. I've allready placed close to 200+/- stub/cleanup tags today to clear out a lot of the incomplete builds people wanted tested. Shireen sysop  04:52, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh not at all, I was just wondering. - Skakid9090 04:53, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Whenever you think it's fine just remove the tag =P - Skakid9090 05:45, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

w/r build
was wondering what needs cleaning up on my build ^^ 1

Your build is higly Chatty, bulitize and condense your paragraph explinations. More information about the subtleties of your build would be appreciated. And try the [skill icon|(Skill Name)]] technique to make your large list of variant skills more recognizable. Shireen sysop  05:04, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

checked over it a few times and i think it's up to par now, if it's not please point the way and i'll fix it up, or if it's only a minor thing and it wont consume your time you'd be most welcome to make the change yourself. Ghostun 04:27, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Allright, this is a build wiki, not a monster skill documentation. Simply list how to counter or deal with those monsters without writing a report about them. Take the skill icon marks out for anything that is not part of the W/R build. It is looking much better and your almost there. Shireen sysop  04:38, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Thanks for the help :) Ghostun 04:58, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Build:W/Mo Hero Utility
What do you mean by this edit? What needs to be expanded, what more needs to be added? Using the build isn't rocket science. Hero maintains succor on two targets... and the AI does the rest. Do I need to write a paragraph on how the AI usually reacts to certain situations? - Auron 04:56, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Add less tags plox Shireen. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 04:58, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

I appologise about that one. I was chewing through and trying to flush out the incomplete, poorly formatted builds and saw the extreme spartian style of the page and felt it could be expanded with gear sugestions and area usage and a few variant tweaks to adress specific PvE situations or Hero Battle Schemes. That was my knee jerk reaction and I went with it. If you guys (Syops) disagree with any of the cleanup/stubbing I did in my blanket of the trial and testing area's, please feel free to change em. It won't hurt my feelings. I was just making an effort to give us a solid food hold on quality controll here at the START of the vetting system rather than after it gets rolling. Shireen sysop  05:02, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Originally, I didn't want to include anything of that sort on the page (a great many players, including myself, never bother equipping heroes with max weapons/runes/insignia etc, so I didn't add it to the page). Gear choice is listed (standard max sword, max shield - nothing specific is required). If a user wants to deck out his hero with superior vigor and survivor insignias or whatnot, he'll probably do it without me telling him to. - Auron 05:05, 2 July 2007 (CEST)


 * O: What are you talking about...I need to know if my Heroes need Rago's or not. Stop failing! Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 05:51, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

No worries. We just havent had many Hiro Builds submitted yet. I made a bad call. Ill keep that build in mind for a minimum standard for Hiro Builds and the like. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  05:07, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Regarding "QCJ"
If you're gonna play the role of the QCJ, you gotta start being more precise about what exactly needs to be done. A comment like: "Build needs to be expanded, clarified, and brought up to standard before comming out of stubs and into TRIAL status" which is on the doesn't actually tell the author what needs to be expanded, in what ways it needs to be expanded, what needs to be clarified, in what ways it needs to be clarified, and, it gives no impression as to what "The Standard" is. I understand why you're doing this, but you can't put the tag on 50 builds and then expect everyone to know what to do. Using the Chilling Striker as an example, please detail what needs to be brought up to code. Use this as an exercise, so that next time you do this, you're better equipped to give a concrete answer. Things like, Builds is too chatty, remove first person, clarify section X, fix spelling, those are concrete things the author can fix. Simply telling them their build is not ship-shape so to speak doesn't really help them at all. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  05:49, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Will do. That was just for the initial Quality Controll sweep. I am going to be very patient and VERY available to work on the quality of the pages with the authors that come to me. And from this point forward I will be specific about what needs to be taken care of. Does the cleanup template support the bulleting format? <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  05:53, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

The intial quality controll sweep, I made eddits to approximately 150 builds according my history logs and some guestimate adjustments. So I appologise for not being specific for to each and every one of those builds. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  06:02, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * It's not something to necessarily apologize for, but, there have been a couple of complaints, and there have been a bunch of authors who think there build has been ready when suddenly: BAM!... not up to code. Just try to be more specific in the future.  Also, I don't think the template supports bulleting, but you could make it.  [[Image:DE Sig Test 2.jpg|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  06:07, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Got a 'teach me how to code a template' page floating around? <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  06:08, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Let me see if I can make it work. [[Image:DE Sig Test 2.jpg|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  06:10, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Try this template: Template:Cleanup2. [[Image:DE Sig Test 2.jpg|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  06:12, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

As far as a website that explains how the work... try http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates#Creating_a_template

See if that clears it up :D

Thanks for the link sneaky. Defiants Cleanup2 format has really helped out in placing appropriate cleanup tags. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  01:28, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Regarding
I reverted your edit moving it to Trial from Testing since current policy states that it is the prerogative of the author whether or not he or she wants their build in Trial at any point. For more info, see PvXwiki:Editing Builds. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  06:10, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Damage Reductor Paragon
what`s wrong with that? You could at least point it out on talk page -_-. --DragonLord 13:41, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Let`s see: * Emphasis on 3rd person perspective in word usage (make it less personal) I`m not native english so sorry, but playing in this all small gramatical games is just too hard for me. Build is written well enough to understand it, the only thing I see what can be done is pointing the text rather than making sentences. * Bulletize and condense usage, along with adding a few more usage points if possible The build itself its quite easy (yet powerful) and, well, spaming skills its only my advice. You cannot target Allies when casting 2 main damage reductors, same with 2 e-management skills, the 2 other skills are desribed (tank/melee, target taking damage), the Elite don`t need special discription either (simple using it when it recharges is enough, using it "wisely" like Heal Party isn`t possible due to time take between casting + using a skill by ally). Saying "res fallen teammates" its just too stupid, first (well, lets say third) quest in pre-searing teach you that, not to mention if you don`t know use of resurrection, stop playing this game (or play tutorial once more). This is PvE build, even not farm one, no special tactic is needed for it, no weapon switching etc.   * Gear should be a simple list of runes and insignias It isn`t? You got 2 possible insignias (no, didn`t tested both, I don`t have enough money nor time to play in that, not to mention both will work and taking one version depends on what Paragon will require in other builds that player wants to use) and best spear for that build, the "abc of writing" clearly describes that runes shouldn`t be written there if they are in skill bar above (they are). * Try using template:Skill Icon to make the page more visually pleasing Don`t know how to use it, never seen on other pages. Or maybe it is the small icons + link of skills rather that their names? Then it`s stupid imo, names are better and more clear. * Counters need to be simplified and adjusted to more commonly used phrases. See favored builds for examples. Kiting, adrenaline denial are common used (well, energy denial is more, but adrenal version of it exist and its used, also, that "adrenal denial" was only a typo). Don`t know how to say "blindness" or "blocking" in other way. Anti-shout skills are also very clear to me. Links to gwwiki can be added (all are working), but can`t see nothing more to improve here. --DragonLord 18:35, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

I am going to work on your build, so perhaps you can see (for future submissions) what it is I am talking about. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  19:11, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

I dived in and fixed a lot of it. As soon as I can (or you can) figure out how to fix the skill icons for the shouts, your build will be ready to go to Trial or Testing if you feel it is ready. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  19:48, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * The problem with the shouts is probably the same as this. I suggest to avoid using skill icons for shouts and use 'Optional' in the main skill bar until PvXcode is fixed. Then the article should be good enough. –&thinsp;<font color="darkblue" face="times">H HHIPPO  &lsaquo;<font color="blue" size="-2">sysop &rsaquo; 19:57, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Has nothing to do with the skill bar, but rather ther skill icon template. Skill bar works just fine with the way the BB code works it (no quotes). <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  20:00, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Its ok I think, only 2 small notes: - runes of vitae aren`t needed, as well as (forget name) +2energy, its completly player`s choice which one he/she prefers - Variants list now Focus Anger as possible change for Song, and Save Yourselves as replacement for WY but thats not exactly true. Taking only FA its waste of skill as burning can be kept continously with standard adrenaline gain. Taking only SY is not wise either, it can not be kept often enough + it cripple e-management w/o FA. These two skills must be paired to work efficiently. It should be somehow fixed. For rest - thank you, except this above its ready for Testing I think :) --DragonLord 20:33, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Edit: Energizing Finale also isn`t good choice for replacing elite, there`s just not enough energy to efficiently use 3 echoes, EF can only go for Finale of Restioration --DragonLord 20:44, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Then change it, I am NOT here to tell you how to make your build (mechanics and stuff). I honestly don't care for dervish builds. teak and fix it to your hearts content. All I was worries about was the formatting and presentation, which we have corrected. Just maintain at least that level of quality and I won't be bothering you with a clean tag again. As for the skill errors, sorry, I thought thats what you meant. The build is yours, not mine. Thanks for understanding and good luck with the vetting. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  20:47, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

And again, whats wrong with my score? Did you finished reading after 2 lines? I can give ANY I want. Read the text AFTER this 2 lines. It works GREAT in damage reduction, so 5 in effi, find me place where this won`t work (NM or HM), otherwise I`ll still give 5 for Universality. Its mine build, Paragons are quire rare on PvE and never seen such build so Inno is 5, geez... Next time I`ll give this full 0 and say "Its trash build and I don`t know why I have been working on it for few hours"... --DragonLord 21:26, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

Build Stub
As defiant elements said what exactly do you want done to the build i created? See. Metal enchantment 19:09, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Your has reached minimum standards of quality. Cleanup tag has been removed. You are welcome to come out of stubs and into Trial or Testing when you feel ready. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  19:11, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

N/A:Vampiric_Agressor
Why is it in stubs? I made it a while ago and I think it's ready for voting. Dark Morphon 19:29, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Rodgort's Inturruption
Is an unregistered user's thing, shouldn't be where you moved it. ‽<font color=#C60000>-(єяøηħ) no u 20:20, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Sorry, I saw the IP, then I saw that he had made an eddit, so I pushed it to his user space making an assumption that he created the page while not logged in. My bust. I've been making a lot of minor mistakes lately. I must be loosing my mind. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  20:35, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Rodgorts Interruption
I didn't make that article. If you check the history, it was an anonymous user. Please get that vandalism out of my namespace. Thank you in advance! --Mgrinshpon (C/T) 20:22, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

Any chance you could explain more specifically what needs to be changed? Thanks in advance --Sneakysmith12 20:33, 2 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Thanks again :D--Sneakysmith12 00:36, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Build:R/E Counjure Burning Arrows
Hi Shireen,

Thx for the comments to help get my build out of the stubs and into the trial :)

I just noticed however that I have spelt Conjure wrong in my title lol, is there anyway to fix this?

-Sticks

Allright, it has been moved. No worried, just doing my job. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  22:51, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

If you want
Can you please tell me if this build is now ok? http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:A/P_Seeping_Criticals> and can u fix what ever is left to do? i think ive done most of it

Refrain
This is getting out of hand, Shireen. Stop adding all the tags, or at least get another administrator's consent... <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:24, 2 July 2007 (CEST)

thanks
ok ill try some more situations for the build and ill work on expanding it

User talk:Readem
"See these two links? Tag them. Ignore the rest, as they have not been submitted to the public eye, and are not yet ready for testing.  01:40, 3 July 2007 (CEST)" Can you get on board with this suggestion? I think it would be the most efficient use of every users' time, for reason given on Readem's talk page. Let me know what you think. - <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman    07:10, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

I see it and appreciate it. But our policy states that Trial is for finished builds that still need feedback before moving to tested phase. This heavily IMPLIES that the formatting of the build is correct, it is presentable, but it's time to double check the mechanics of the build. But I can see and appreciate yall's wanting to just focus on the testing areas. Sure, we can do that. I allready cleared out the inferior formattings out of trial and testing on sunday. I don't go digging through stubs just to place new tags. And most of the brand spanking new Build-stub tags that I place are new users trying to create a brand new build with a 'testing' tag on it. Im doing what you guys want. The problem is that weve neglected this issue for so long (as we had no vetting system to move builds around in) that it has become the Elephant in the closet. It's gonna be a HUGE mess to get it out of there (and everything it left behind). Cleaning out the sections should take no more than a week, and then you will see everything calm down. I can almost guarentee it. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  07:16, 3 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Any solution is fine by me. I'd like to see the conflict resolved and you too made up. It looks bad on us to have two administrators going at it like that. ;-) If you start to get overwhelmed, give me a post. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   07:25, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

I felt it was a discussion, rather than a full blown argument. It didn't turn ugly untill Blue stepped in. I'll make significant effort to take any spirited discussions off site in an effort to prevent any misunderstanding by the community. I honestly Like Raedem, and I think hese got a little soft spot for me too... But I promise you we have no illusions where each other stand and both agree that we strongly disagree with each other's personality modes. In any discussion between an Admin and a user, unless it's flaigrant, I will allways back the Admin's decision, especially if that means support you or Raedem. After you post a reply Im going to archive this page. It's getting long. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  07:34, 3 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Archive away. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   07:37, 3 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Btw, I meant that you could post me if you needed help with the clean-up project, not any admins conflicts or w/e (though I'd be happy to help with that too). - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   07:39, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

You know, sorry I turned the discussion ugly. But you can't blame this all on me. Ok, that's my last post. Hopefully. Bluemilkman 07:38, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Anything you want to talk about
Who hoo! <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  07:41, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Lets talk about why you suck. You may start :D &mdash; Skuld 13:41, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

I love ya Skuld. I don't like ya, but I love ya! =) <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  13:43, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Now for something completely off topic who here has heard of NAU or North American Union... look it up and be amazed.... plenty of CNN videos on youtube...--Sneakysmith12 01:39, 4 July 2007 (CEST)

Does anyone know hot to make userboxes? i love the idea but have no clue whatsoever... Metalmiser 20:07, 4 July 2007 (CEST)


 * There are two methods of doing this :D
 * Simple:
 * <Nowiki>Advance:
 * Hope this helps :D --Sneakysmith12 12:08, 5 July 2007 (CEST)

New delete tag
Took Defiant Elements' example to create This will also take up to 10 parameters. For uses please go to the page :D template:Delete2

Help
Thx for your help Masterseru 07:43, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

Censoring
Do NOT edit any part of my text again. &mdash; Skuld 11:03, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

My appologies. Just try to keep the language reasonable. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  11:04, 6 July 2007 (CEST)
 * You know as an admin. you especially should know that you are not allowed to edit others comments. Whether your actions were moral or not. Metal enchantment 06:02, 7 July 2007 (CEST)

It was a judgement call on an interpretation of a site policy. I've allready been spoken too. It's a moot point at this time. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  07:37, 7 July 2007 (CEST)

Build:R/P Shout as One
Mind if I move it to my userspace to work on it? I don't know what it is, but I just have this thing against making serious work on stuff outside my userspace. Oh well. Bluemilkman 19:37, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

User:Bluemilkman/Builds To Work On/R-W Riposte Ranger And this one if at all possible. I must like abandoned builds. Bluemilkman 19:50, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

User:Bluemilkman/Builds To Work On/Team - 2 Ranger Kepkhet Farming This one, but I only want these moved to my userspace if no one else does anything. So in two weeks when the thing comes up, instead of moving them to trash, I would like them in my userspace. There's probably going to be a long list. Bluemilkman 19:53, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

Another one. User:Bluemilkman/Builds To Work On/Team - Kindle Flame Bluemilkman 19:56, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

Blue, they were marked abandoned for lack of attention. You are more than welcome to move them. Any that you are not currently working on, put in user space, and that you bring up to code send to the trial section. Good luck. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  20:26, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

ok, thanks. Bluemilkman 20:36, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

I added a message for you to my talk and now I tell you here in the hope you will be able to read it :D PvX messaging is hard... :/

About that wammo's deletion...
I was just about to make a bloody good suggestion then, I had going a nice idea for a warrior's endurance Judge's Insight warrior making good use of cyclone axe and whirlwind attack... damn you! lol

Anyways, far from completion yet, need to see if the healing from lion's is enough combined with endure and dolyak. Basically, get the mob in a ball first (not much skill required), run in, activate dolyak and endure and get to work slaughtering. How does it look so far?

[build prof=warrior/monk axe=10+1+3 strength=12+1 smiting=5 prot=8][cyclone axe][optional][dolyak signet][warrior's endurance][endure pain][reversal of fortune][reversal of damage][judge's insight][/build]

Use a Zealous weapon. Optional must be Whirlwind Attack. 4 energy per hit should be enough to maintain energy against 3 monsters at once. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 17:17, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

What you just posted above is NOT the wammo build I deleted. That can be build and sumbitted without an admin summary deletion. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  17:23, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

I know it isn't, but it was my suggestion I was going to make for it. xP But still what do you think? I need opinions lol <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^  <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 17:25, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

It has potential. You have massive energy regen and regen potential, but Where are the energy spamming skills? <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  17:26, 8 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Good point, I'll work on that xP Any skills that you recommend? <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 17:27, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

No idea on that one bro. I don't play warriors much. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  17:28, 8 July 2007 (CEST)
 * What about Monk spamming skills? <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 17:29, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

I'm possibly thinking spirit bond is an option against monsters with high damage or with 600 hp or more and prot spirit. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 17:32, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

- That might be viable, but a slow system, cuz your going to be juggling 'cyclone' and spirit bond, and have to recast prot spirit on a regular basis. Might want to find chants or insta-skills that will allow you to work within the cast times. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  17:34, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

Made a change now, I've put in some insta-cast reversals. Should be easily manageable with the 4 energy per hit income plus with the 1 energy per received hit. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 23:06, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

Cool, now, if you would please, take this build discussion of my USER page and make a build page somewhere for it. =) <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  23:08, 8 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Most certainly, the barebones essentials of the build have been saved, you may now delete this ;) Thanks for your opinion. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 23:41, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

MSN- Shireen
You are trying my patience, and my patience is very limited already. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 02:31, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

Preferably 8 Mountain time, or whenever possible. It will be tomorrow, or Tuesday depending on the other administrator's schedule's. Be there, it regards you. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 02:35, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

And your trying my patience for not upholding the rules of the site, and your an admin. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  06:30, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

And yet even after a discussion that is nearly an hour long, you fail to show me my countless malicious actions :/. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 07:47, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

me-ow! - <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 06:33, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

lol Skakid.

And that is why I ended our conversation. Because after presenting the start of my case you said you didn't understand, that you were in the right and that I hadn't said anything meaningfull. This conversation is over because you wont listen. So, Im not going to talk to you anymore. You cannot make somone change their mind when it is closed. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen sysop  07:49, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

Sorry can't resist. Did you just say you were close-minded? LOLOL (Sorry, you kinda fell into that one mate) <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 07:53, 9 July 2007 (CEST)