Build talk:Me/any Keystone Signet

SoH needs mainbar i guess, you dont use energy anyway--GWPirate 14:43, May 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe adding the right attributes. Or do you want to use the enchantment to make all signets->FC attribute? Shadow Form Slayer 14:44, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes that is the plan, thats why we have Symbolic Celerity there [[File:Tyrael.png]]--(Talk) 14:45, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Signet of Humility maybe? 88.113.135.202 15:20, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * In PvE it seems kinda redundant [[File:Tyrael.png]]--(Talk) 15:41, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mainbar Mantra of Signets, screw Symbolic Celerity. You still have high FC. With 7 signets it gives +21 armor, which means 25% less damage, let alone healing. Also add artificer's insigniae in variants. You can still get 610hp without survivors. Kravcio 18:28, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Symbolic Celerity makes all your signets use your FC attribute so it's very useful [[File:Tyrael.png]]--(Talk) 18:36, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Scratch my sentence. I saw the updates still haven't passed through. I'm sorry Shadow Form Slayer 21:24, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, didn't spot that one was changed. I'm still for adding Mantra of Signets and artificer's. +36 armor vs anything is nearly 50%dmg reduction. No more squishy, decent self-heal. Good stuff. Kravcio 01:36, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Bonder
Keystone is kinda wasted there since you dont target foes with any of your skills tbh --(Talk) 08:56, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Suggested Bar
[build prof=Me/N Fast=12+1+1 Illus=3][Symbolic Celerity][Keystone@14][Fragility@3][Signet of Clumsiness@14][Unnatural Signet@14][Signet of Corruption@14][Optional][Optional][/build] Could it work? + ℓγ ss άή [rage]  14:53, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, looks good, I'll mainbar frag for triggering Unnatural's condition. [[File:Tyrael.png]]--(Talk) 15:29, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Mantra Of Signet's in mainbar, perfect heal+defence, and tryph signet too for great viable snare. --SjoerdieBoy XXL 13:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

What the fuck
Remove these from the optionals:
 * Signet of Distration
 * Signet of Disenchantment
 * Hex Eater Signet
 * Mantra of Signets (it's PvE ffs)
 * Bane Signet
 * Signet of Rage
 * Restore Life
 * oh god pretty much all of the assassin skills
 * Barbed Signet
 * SoLS
 * Symbolic Strike (Who put that there, seriously)

Remove Signet of Weariness from the mainbar, and replace with Signet of Clumsiness. Add these to the optionals: + ℓγ ss άή [rage]  15:49, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Signet of Corruption (seriously, how did that get overlooked)
 * Cry of Pain
 * Mantra of Inscriptions (less downtime on Keystone, amirite?)
 * Signet of Weariness
 * "By Ural's Hammer!"
 * Technobabble
 * I think some people were having fun vandalizing this page yeah. Fixed [[File:Tyrael.png]]--(Talk) 18:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Tryptophan Signet + heroes
It might be worth being clear on what to put on heroes instead of Tryptophan Signet (given they can't take it, with it being a Title skill).  ~ PheNaxKian talk  13:39, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Noob checking if something is correct -(noob would be me)
I don't think something is correct, but I could be wrong: first when I run my cursor over the skills, I don't believe they reflect the current updated skill - for instance unnatural signet i could use in PVP or PVE to take out any spirit or summoned creature with usually 2 clicks with the instant recharge in between the clicks. The cursor pan over (opens quick reference box) reflects this, but I don't think the unnatural signet works that way anymore as I look at the other mesmer builds here on the PVX website.

When I pan over Signet of Sorrows it says level 14, but has Signet of Sorrows become a secondary attribute? I believe (I don't have a necromancer character) that it uses or used to use the necromancer's primary attribute. If they have changed it/ please forgive. My question is signet of sorrows a good signet in the optional section?

Thank you for your patience with my question Remoteluxury 23:05, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The skill database hasn't been updated for the split skills and probably never will be. You'll have to know your skills or actually check to make sure. Symbolic Celerity has been updated so all signets use your fast casting attribute. Signet of Sorrow is shown @14 because of this.-- Relyk  talk  23:12, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for kind reply - probably too much work (as you mention) split skills update changes.  I'll double check and make sure I'm getting correct information from other source.  Sincerely,  Remoteluxury 10:33, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Signet of Stamina?
Although it wouldn't work on a hero, Stamina is a 250 health boost, pretty worthy of an optional. Eive Windgrace 04:36, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't specifically target foes. Cuilan 23:43, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The fact you have to only cast it once every instance makes it worth an optional.--GWPirate 05:19, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't really see a point to that skill. Cuilan 05:47, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * 250 extra health is bleeping manly--GWPirate 06:00, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Signet. You have +283 maximum Health. Ends if you hit with an attack.
 * Spikes are so abundant in PvE i run a pussy form of vitals. Oh wait. Brandnew 08:35, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * you can take full survivor, vitae runes, sup vigor, +30hp weap, +45hp enchant offhand/shield since the energy isnt vital. if you need any more health than that i'm slightly worried. 87.106.252.91 16:50, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Idiot question
I'm quite interested in using this build but, how can you have 14 domination magic to cast unnatural while having no attrib points in it? --Anthonie 09:06, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The new Symbolic Celerity causes your signets to use the Fast Cast attribute. 218.186.10.230 09:35, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh right stupid me. PVX wiki still appears to be using the old pre-buff descriptions so I got rather confused, thanks.

What sort of gear should one use with this build? A Fast casting staff of enchanting? Normally i'd go for a 40/40 but there doesn't seem to be much use for it here.
 * 40/20/20 Fast Casting, and even then, you really don't neeeeed it. Just a simple shield set would probably be best. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 13:16, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I use a sword (of enchanting and +5 en) and shield (of fortitude). ;) That's why I like about this build, with artificer's insignia's, max armor and a shield your armor ratings rival that of a warriors. :D --Anthonie 16:14, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

symbolic celerity
trytophian (however you spell that) signet will have your fc attribute right? So ebon rank makes no difference? <font color="Purple">Hareemuhhh. talk? 16:27, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * yeh, takes fc attribute 87.106.252.91 16:50, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * My heroes don't maintain this. They usually won't cast it either until all their other signets have been used up. I have to manually force the hero to use it. --[[Image:Jimp.jpg|19px]] <font color="#00aaff">WhiteAsIce 07:42, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I am seeing little keystone minatures when I'm attacked by enemies in ft. aspenwood
I saw them - yes - they were there/ and they appeared over my head as I was running between gates on the luxon side. BAM! I was hit by (what I believe now to be) two signets - and I bare witness to the truth- there were two little mini keystone signet miniatures above my head. Is this to let enemy in on the fact Elite Signet is being used to activate the other signets that targeted me? Has anyone else seen this? Remoteluxury 10:42, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Get some sleep, sir. Cuilan 17:34, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * screenshot or it didn't happen-- Relyk  talk  19:36, June 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * And how does this make you feel? -- DANDY ^_^ -- 20:10, June 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sleep Yes/ must get sleep - -- and how do I feel? I feel Jim Dandy! :) I better get a screen shot of that - i know i saw them!  Remoteluxury 23:05, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

what are the optionals I am to use for the hero variant?
I wasn't clear on what optionals (from the main page) to use since downloading the hero version of the skill bar - what should I be taking? ty and sincerely, Remoteluxury 23:09, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * wait i assume i must be taking the player optionals - now that i look again/ but under variants it says bring a high energy spell/ i guess i can just choose more signets or add signet(s) and / or high energy spell(s)Remoteluxury 23:29, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gosh darn it my internet protection software is banging out warnings for virus crud being downloaded or attempted to be sent to my PC via this website. So many ads - I wish there was a pay no ad option of this place.  I really like PVX wiki a lot - so many great contributors and great ideas.  Is there a way to run my PVX wiki packets through another computer?  Say a corporate or government computer that can sniff the packets a lot better before they come to my house? (or would that be criminial? i don't know honestly.) I guess the other option is trying to shut off java or flash but at the loss of all the goodies that make the website so cool to use. Remoteluxury 23:29, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't use this on a hero, they dont spam signets with keystone signet well. You're better off using panic or pi. Also download firefox and get Adblocker-- Relyk  talk  23:35, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for advice - will do on suggestions -- thx again! Remoteluxury 17:06, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Needs to be cleaned up
Make frag or MW mainbar or take off unnatural signet. It just looks retarded now.Great Gatsby 00:50, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * lolno-- Relyk  talk  01:20, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unnatural Signet is fine as is without a hex on the bar. It isn't required and is still painfully easy to get the extra damage. Fragility would be odd to add on mainbar if you're suggesting to remove Unnatural Signet, as one requires conditions and the other one has an extra effect if met. Cuilan 02:11, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't need a hex on mainbar...80% of mobs in PvE have enchantments. And 90% of times you'll have hexes in your group. --Chin pon 07:06, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Was thinking the requirement was a mesmer hex. My bad. Great Gatsby 13:10, July 2, 2010 (UTC) 13:09, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * People need to stop spreading out the attributes so thin and adding random stuff. Cuilan 06:07, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't need to have a hex yourself to trigger Unnatural. Not worth having Fragility...if it's at 3. Cuilan 06:09, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Easier to play AoE/Spike hybrid
Hello everyone. I'm new to this wiki, so I'm going to refrain from making a mess of editing the main article and just post my suggestion here.

One of the biggest problems I've noticed with this build is the fact that using it well requires you to have two support skills up at all times while plinking away at the enemy with your entire remaining skill bar. This often makes me feel like I need three hands to play. It also has another serious problem of a mediocre at best spiking ability. You might have nuked all his nearby buddies but you better hope your allies can take down that last remaining enemy, because regardless of how fast it recharges, Unnatural Signet alone isn't going to be enough.

Towards that end I've been testing out the following variant.

[build prof=Me/any Domination=12+1+1 fastcasting=12+1 Illusion=3][Mind Wrack@14][Unnatural Signet@14][Signet of Clumsiness@3][Signet of Disruption@14][Signet of Distraction@14][Shatter Delusions@14][Symbolic Posture@13][Keystone Signet@13][/build]

Your attack pattern pretty much goes 1,2,3,4,5,6--7,8--1,2,3,4,5,6--8--1,2,3,4,5,6

Since two out of the six attack skills also do AoE damage, you can forego using Keystone on the first attack chain. Don't worry about interrupting. Just hit the enemy with as many signets as you can as quick as you can. This build does away with the need for Symbolic Celerity, and works just as well as the main page's build against hex removal/hex immune foes, but does extra armor ignoring spike damage AND AoE if you can get Mind Wrack/Unnatural Signet/Shatter Delusions going. Both Mind Wrack and Shatter Delusions are also low mana fast recharge spells, which gives you something to do on those rare occasions when all your signets are recharging and still lets you keep a shield in the off hand.

Note: the skill descriptions here are out of date. Mind Wrack deals 24 damage and 1 energy loss every time the hexed enemy is hit by one of your other mesmer skills. Unnatural Signet deals 71 damage to target foe and 47 damage to adjacent foes if target is hexed or enchanted. Shatter Delusions deals 71 damage to target and adjacent foes when removing the mesmer hex.

Dioxin 06:38, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tryptophan Signet was in there as a snare I'm sure because of the distance required for Keystone Signet. Adding Shatter Delusions doesn't do much to fix that since both are adjacent. How is your version easier to play? Cuilan 10:06, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * You don't need to keep an eye on both Symbolic Celerity and Mantra of Inscriptions in the middle of a fight. Symbolic Posture is either ready to use or it's not, unlike the Mantra which affects all signet. Also unlike the main build's Mantra recharge speedup leading to different signets being ready in the middle of a fight after the first Keystone, speeding Keystone's own recharge with Symbolic Posture means all attack skills are ready at once and can be launched in sequence. All attack signets also have the same consideration for use. There's no need to wait for interrupt opportunities. Just hit the enemy with whatever you have and let Mind Wrack deal the damage. Keystone, Unnatural, and Shatter AoE and the occasional interrupt are all extra benefit that requires no planning on your part. That's compared to the main build, which requires much more finesse on who you hit, when, and with what signet.


 * Tryptophan Signet might be a good swap with any of the interrupt signets if you feel snaring is more important than raw attack speed, which is a valid preference. However that doesn't address the main build having only one skill that will significantly and unconditionally damage your target and not just its adjacents. Mind Wrack lets you do steady damage to the main target while nuking the adjacents and boosts the effectiveness of Unnatural Signet. Shatter Delusions pairs well with having a hex in your build while doing its part to address the spike shortfall. Dioxin 20:27, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * This build is still one of the highest damaging esmer bars and it's not meant to be laced in a team with low damage. It is meant to assist damage not provide the main damage in your team. That'sthe frontliners job. If you consider this bar damage support it is one of the best in the game.--Strayver 13:57, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * True, although Symbolic/Keystone is a total blast to play against the balled up mobs in The Deep. Dioxin 13:24, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Split to player and hero
Keystone signet spiker is often seen in caster spikes and has become more popular for general use it seems. The keystone signet hero also sees niche use in spikes (used in doa and afk glints iirc). They need to be vetted separately.-- Relyk 08:00, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised they're being rated so low. I don't know if they're rating the hero or the player. Cuilan 17:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I rated the hero tbh. I don't see much use in PvE for the human variant because Esure/Panic/AP are superior builds imo in terms of AoE damage, diversity and support. The hero version basically suffers from the same problems. It's a waste when you run this build on your mesmer hero. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 19:24, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Generally speaking, if a build is tagged for both heroes and players, you rate it for the player. One doesn't downgrade a GvG build if it doesn't perform well in RA...  -.-  AegisDok 23:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure why it is a waste for heroes - I've had a lot of success running this - in fact, I've been running triple Mesmer quite often (Ineptitude, me on Panic, Keystone), double Rit (SoS and Soul Twisting Prot/Heal), and three necros (my own variant on Sabway with a BiP/Healer to fuel the mesmers) and destroying HM. Always nice to have an interrupt/damage through Spell Breaker, Vow of Silence and the like. On rare occasion I'll swap out the Keystone or Ineptitude for something else, but not often --Falseprophet 22:34, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Equipment suggestions
A FC set seems of no use to me. I'd suggest a high armor weapon set and full Artificier's, since some variants of this build use 6 or even 7 signets. In a 6-signet build like the one I run (SC, MoI, KS and 5 damage/rupt signets) with a defensive set I have 60 + 18 + 5 + 8 = 91 armor, which means a bit more than 40% damage reduction compared to a standard caster kit with no armor bonuses. Not many people will ever swap to a FC set to cast one spell once every 40 or so seconds and therefore I'd say a high armor set is the "best" set to suggest. I will not make changes to the article, though, before I get an opinion on this. 91.154.212.254 14:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely right. Cuilan 18:24, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Castigation Signet
I think that Castigation Signet should be removed from the optionals. In a build that doesn't really need energy, Bane Signet is much better as it has the same recharge and casting times and has an extra effect. <font color="Blue">Williwaw87 -- 10:46, August 8, 2011 (EST)
 * I quite agree. The 25 energy from the maintaining comes back long before I finish my rotation.Vanguard 18:02, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * agreed &mdash;  skakid  18:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

The reasoning behind not bringing Castigation is simple. Signet of Disruption deals essentially the same damage, has an additional effect, and has less recharge (but I suppose recharge doesn't really matter). Signet of Sorrow deals more damage with the same recharge, AND it has an additional effect. Bane Signet is obviously better.

So ask yourself: Why am I bringing Castigation Signet? &mdash;  skakid  18:39, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Only use for it that I can see is for a little more damage against undead. --  Toraen   talk  19:06, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * At which point Bane Sig would be the better option. -- Jai . -  01:22, October 25 2011 (UTC)
 * like relyk said, the two are not mutually explosive. Smity Smitington 01:51, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

terrible
This build is terrible, I've been testing vs WoC afflicted. -_- <font face="Calibri" color=black>Chieftain Alex  20:05, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

this needs less bad optionals...
most signets are bad...taking just every signet in the game only because they have synergies with the elite is stupid; take all those generell support skills like this User:Illoyon/Me/any Signet Nuker; probably make it hero only...cause no body runs this on a player. Illoyon 20:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * as no body seems to care i will just change it later...any disagreements? Illoyon 15:30, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree with you. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 23:44, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * looked better after edit, but using Mantra of inscriptions limits this build to inspiration...I added some better optionals. Illoyon 09:20, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

&larr; Moved from Build talk:Me/any PvE Keystone
Should just modify the existing page (I don't know why it locks itself to /N for that skill of all things). Toraen (talk) 20:14, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
 * No idea how I didn't see that, will do. Sry was busy, but sent you a discord friend request now. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 17:12, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Confirmed. Merge this at your leisure, and feel free to remove any outright bad options from the other build as needed. Toraen (talk) 09:01, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You might wish to add one of the mesmer stances to speed up signet recharge. Then instead of wastrels you could go secondary monk and use some of the smite signets (lots of mobs attack so Bane Signet could be useful, Signet of Rage could hurt some stuff more). But if you want to stick Necro secondary you may wish to consider signet of corruption. Assassins have some potentially useful signets too. Signet of Humility can help to shutdown some bosses. Phomatabih (talk) 16:56, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The stance you should be using is Symbolic Posture; so long as you can spam Keystone, your other signets will always be available. This should probably be listed as a core skill rather than an optional. Houroftheowl (talk) 10:48, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Revamp
I think that this build in its current form is bad and unplayable for heroes, so I prepared an alternative:

Build:Me/any Domination Signet Hero

I'd just replace this page with it, but as that'd be a huge change and turn the old vets unfitting I'd rather discuss this first. As a closely related build requiring a separate build page I'd also suggest this:

Build:Me/N Keystone Minion Bomber Hero

Any opinions on whether this page should be replaced with/reworked to something of the likes of Builds/2 and whether Builds/1 could have its own build page given its very different purposes despite sharing the core build? --Krschkr (talk) 17:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This build seems to be directed towards players mostly, so I'll make two pages for heroes. --Krschkr (talk) 13:25, 28 April 2018 (UTC)