Archive talk:Rt/D Pious Haste Runner

Old Discussion
I'm just going to throw this out here, but while this build is excellent, wouldn't it be that much more awesome if vital weapon was replaced with Splinter Weapon? Attrib points would be moved into channeling from communing, of course. -Kaelor 12:31 20 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Think energy. Splinter weapon would have to be recast every few attacks. While Vital not only offers some Hp to counter runes, it also will last about 37 seconds no matter what, proving to be a much better choice for energy conservation. Splinter would do more damage in the short run, but the loss of energy would cause the melee attacks to spread thinner lowering long term damage(And since the build is about heavy pressure, long term damage is the way to go).--Midnight08 01:35, 21 July 2007 (CEST)
 * If you're running this with a monk, then, consider changing to Splinter Weapon and include Zealous Renewal as opposed to Mystic Regeneration. Even at 0 Mysticism it's an excellent source of energy in PvE. Kaelor 19:03, 21 July 2007 (CEST)

Just thought I should mention: this build can also do very well in RA and TA. Replace Wielder's Remedy with Sight Beyond Sight, Victorious Sweep with Eremite's Attack, and (if you're worried about kiting) Conviction with Crippling Sweep. You can easily do over 200 damage every couple of seconds by chaining VS and EA. As mentioned, energy can become an issue, though. - Vermain 20:46, 15 August 2007 (CEST)

Talk stuff
Warmongers in main? &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:31, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Weapon of Shadow? Railin 01:48, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * /agree, I see Shadow alot more often than Warmonger's. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 03:01, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * tbh, I think it's actually most frequently run with Mend Body and Soul. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:40, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * Open slots ftw. You can basicly run anything in there. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  15:18, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Merge?
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Rt/A_WoR_Flag-Runner It's awesome, but yeah. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  09:36, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * Probably won't happen with Pious Haste vs. Dash and Dark Escape; not being able to be protted and run (fast) at the same time makes this different enough, I think. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 14:50, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * But just talking skill-wise, it's only two different skills, from wich one is an optional in the other build and the other one has a similliar purpose :\ - Star Seeker  |  My talk  16:16, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * This is seen on every other team, the Rt/A is not. If anything, that merges into here (Rt/D is meta). Nothing wrong with keeping them separate though, since this is GvG. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:22, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * The Rt/A is alot better imo.[[Image:Beast194Sig.Jpg|19px]]  Beast 194  (talk ) 14:41, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * And if someone comes to wiki looking for a WoR flagger, chances are they're looking for the Rt/D. Rt/D is ran far more often. Personally, I hate it when my flagger removes his own prot. But, this is the one that gets run by the top teams far more often. &mdash; Edru / QQ  16:36, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * Rt/A got crappy speed boost, it ain't fast. And in some situations, the faster you can be the better(since you might have 10 secs more time at a moral bodyblock, for example). Yes, this does remove prots, but that's why people run weapon of shadow, they can't bull's you then anyway. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  15:20, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Needs more weapon spells (/sarcasm). ---  Ressmonkey (talk)  16:46, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * You could run shadow instead of kaolai, if your team could cope with losing pwk. =p &mdash; Edru / QQ  16:49, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * No, you run it instead of wmgr, since wmgr is only run in rly offensive build (usually splits) &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:42, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * I was talking sarcastically about ways to get more weapon spells in... &mdash; Edru / QQ  17:44, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * i fail ^^ &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  22:52, 8 January 2008 (EST)

WoS
Weapon of shadow = variant imo Chris 20:28, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * lern 2 read. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 21:06, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * I think this is a response to the talk up top? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * It was already in the variants when he responded, though. w/e. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas  22:04, 8 January 2008 (EST)

WTB Pure Was Li Ming
Uber party support FTW? At 14 resto you're pulling 4 conditions off every member of your team, roxxors at flag. Someone wanna list it in the variants?--Goldenstar 16:53, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * PwK is way better. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  16:55, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * Which is why you run both, then when you're at the stand and need to mop up some conditions you drop your PwK, put up PwLM, drop it, and put PwK back up.--Goldenstar 16:57, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * You'll probably be spamming Weapon of Warding and Splinter when you're at stand. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:58, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Optional
Should be Weapon of Shadow. It's basically 9 seconds of invincibility.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴɖɩđđɭɘş  21:49, 20 January 2008 (EST)

Alliance Battle
This works great in AB?

If not maybe the Ab tag should be removed.

IMO: Support builds aren't that good in ab. Doragon
 * imo it works fine in AB as a support build. Added damage for capping and some decent heals for if you 'accidently' find yourself in a mob. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 15:20, 24 January 2008 (EST)
 * I've been running this in AB the past few days and it works really well. You don't have to have any coordination with your allies at all to really make use of the support. Just watch for allied rangers or melee guys going for a shrine, buff them with Splinter Weapon, cast Ancestors' Rage on the melee guys when they get close to NPCs or players, etc. They don't even need to be aware of what you're doing lol, it'll still work just fine. Plus you have Spirit Rift to throw in there for a nice SR/AR spike on a shrine. Combine this with a warrior or derv buffed with Splinter Weapon, and you clear shrines faster than most eles can. :P Zephyr Cloud 16:14, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Splinter Weapon + Ancestors' Rage win PvE, so by logic, it wins AB. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:25, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * So by logic, use this in AB and rock some socks. Zephyr Cloud 16:28, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Exactly. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:28, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * You bet. -Shen 16:29, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Definitely. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 16:59, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Definitely. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 16:59, 25 January 2008 (EST)

I think that setup shown works a bit better in AB, stronger heal and cheaper spells (minus shadow), I found Warding can be a bit tough on you if a battle drags out at a shrine or a lame mob. (Mr Pink57 20:25, 30 January 2008 (EST))

I use for Alliance Battles a build somewhat similar to this build. It is this build which I have been developing all the way I have played to Steward of the Luxons (r6), mostly in PUGs (I am a PUG player^^):

The usage and notes are:
 * Cast Bloodsong to enhance Mend Body and Soul to remove more conditions, Essence Strike to manage energy and Spirit Burn to cause more damage. Bloodsong is a very interesting spirit for these purposes because it steals life with its attacks increasing its survivality; otherwise this ritualist build does not use Spawning Power attribute and spirits are easily killed.
 * Use the skills Weapon of Remedy, Mend Body and Soul and Vengeful Weapon to heal/protect and to eventually kill as, for example, NPCs warriors and rangers can be killed just this way, or to low the opponent PC's health. Allies being attacked by weapon users are easily healed.
 * Use Nightmare Weapon preferibly on an ally, else on yourself. Mmm... I choose Nightmare Weapon over Splinter Weapon because Nightmare Weapon does damage to the foe being attacked by the ally, this helps when capping monk shrines or in many fights against a single foe which happen in ABs. Whilst Splinter Weapon does damage to 3 adyacent foes to the foe being attacked by the ally which is usefull to fight mobs. And in AB it may be more interesting to be ready to help capping than to help fighting mobs.
 * Use Bloodsong, Nightmare Weapon, Spirit Burn and Essence Strike to attack when not being in much danger or when not being attacked with weapons or to help finishing with a foe with low health. For example, if when trying to cap a mesmer's shrine cast Bloodsong at the edge of the aggro distance an cast keeping the order so that when you have Backfire on you have already Nightmare Weapon on you.
 * Many assassins, warriors and even rangers may be countered and killed. Many elementalists, mesmers and other ritualists may be killed as well. Nevertheless, dervishs and skilled monks may not be killed, they may not kill you as well. Assassins with daze, warriors with knockdown, fire elementalists and mesmers with strong degenaration skills plus backfire may kill you.
 * This build has an energy management skill. All the skills cost 5 energy, nevertheless, cast Bloodsong and use Essence Strike to avoid running out of energy during long fights.
 * Use Pious Haste to rush to shrines, to rush to heal an ally, to run away from AoE spells, dervishs, touchers and minions, and to avoid fight.
 * This is not a capping build, think, nevertheless, that with some skill and patience most points can be capped, the only which may not be capped are the 2 monks shrines and the 1 monk + 2 elementalists shrines. For example, if you attack from the edge of the aggro distance you may lure one by one the 3 warriors, the 3 elementalist or the 3 necromancers of these shrines.
 * Counters to this build are: dazed, knockdown, backfire, strong energy denial all these debuff you and you become easy to kill. Whilst interruption skills are not a strong counter because the main weapon spells have short casting times and recharge fast, and assassin with daze shuts down it easily. Very strong degeneration may kill you, such as fire or having many hexes on you. And if you are low on energy creeple may be a problem as well, because you need to run away to recover 5 energy to be able to cast your weapons and healing.
 * You may max the Restoration atribute if you wish more healing/protection and indirect damage, else you may max Channeling if you wish more direct damage.Marianojc 08:14, 15 February 2008 (EST)
 * So i herd u lyk 2 spam? Build Talk pages are for discussing the Build, not posting other ones. If you want to share this, post it as a new build, delete all this stuff and change it to a link to the build. A mini skill bar with a brief paragraph is fine, but this is excessive. - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  09:32, 15 February 2008 (EST)
 * A pain to read your critic.. If I post this build as a new build someone else may critize it for being the same as the Pious Haste Runner build... even if I say that this is a new build for AB it may not be considered new. Still more, once something is written in the Wiki it may not be so freely deleted even by myself as you seem to think. Delete it yourself if it is wrong, I won't complain because this may be the last thing I write in this wiki. Thank you and good luck! Marianojc 14:34, 15 February 2008 (EST) 14:32, 15 February 2008 (EST)

AB?
Why is this any good for AB? There's no use for running in AB. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tengu (contribs) 10:32, 3 February 2008.
 * lol what? AB is all about running and capping. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 10:05, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * And blowing things up with Ancestors' and Splinter. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:40, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Name of the build "Pious Haste Runner"?
It may not make sense to call a Rt build for AB "Pious Haste Runner" as being a runner is not a rol in ABs. And there are three reasons:

1. Main reason: It may not be Pious Haste the key skill of the build. As a matter of fact they may be i) the mix of Restoration + Channeling skills and ii) the weapon spells chosen as parte of the build, what are the keys of the build.

2. Secondary reason: You may use other assassin's, ranger's or, even, warrior's speed boost skills instead of Pious Haste. Think Pious Haste is great because it can be mantained, nevertheless, you may use as well, for example: Dash or Storm's Embrace which are non-attribute skills.

In some view this build is a kind of hybrid or balanced build, as it mixes healing/protection with damage/damage buff skills.Marianojc 07:03, 15 February 2008 (EST)

This was initially meant to be a GvG runner build. o_o Railin  08:28, 15 February 2008 (EST)


 * In that same vein, it's a Pious Haste runner because it has the same general skillset as the Dash/Dark Escape Rt/A runners. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 13:45, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Needs to be archived
Pious Haste was nerfed. It's now totally inferior to Dash for a Rit. Zuranthium 19:32, 15 February 2008 (EST)

I dunno if I can agree with this archive, Dash is 3 sec at a 8 sec recharge while haste is 3 sec at a 5 sec recharge. I still use this in AB and its fine with some variants on skills.(71.82.137.61 21:19, 16 February 2008 (EST))
 * Dash is almost always paired with Dark Escape for Rt/A runners. Also, 50% IMS vs. 33% IMS. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas  23:25, 16 February 2008 (EST)
 * If you do the maths, Pious Haste gives 33% boost 60% of the time, and Dash gives 50% boost 37.5% of the time. That means that the average bonus movement speed with Pious haste is 19.8%, and Dash gives 18.75% which is actually slightly less. Dark escape with Dash does help, but i still don't see why this should be archived. [[image:klumpeetsignature.jpg|19px]] <font color = "#000">Klumpeet  .<font color = "#C09F1C">talk .<font color = "#C09F1C">cont . 03:33, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Because of the enchantment removal with Pious Haste. Being prottable with damage reduction from Dark Escape > slightly better average IMS and/or being unprottable in critical situations.  It was viable before because of the constant 33% IMS, but now that it's basically on par with Dash, Rt/A is just the better alternative. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  03:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * As well, Dash is ~13% more effective in time windows <5 seconds. Pious doesn't exceed Dash in effectiveness, even slightly, until at least 7 seconds have passed. That's not really important in the run from base to stand and back, but it can be important when actually capping.

This is still a great AB build vs Dash thats where the Archive puzzles me.(Mr Pink57 04:30, 21 February 2008 (EST))