Archive talk:A/Mo Assacaster

discuss — Skakid9090 05:27, 17 September 2007 (CEST)

it works better without augury of death, if u put shadow refuge and vipers in :) IGN Grimweeper x


 * lolwut? Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 15:58, 13 November 2007 (CET)


 * Standard casting sin, with SOJ thrown in to KD your opponent a second time and tick them off even more, good, but I think we need a general guide for sin casters (if we do those in pvx, do we?), the majority of them run along the same lines. Wyvern 06:07, 17 September 2007 (CEST)

&mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Teh Uber Pwnzer (contribs).

Yeah, I like the build, but it's pretty generic. Something like the Spirit's Strength guide might be nice for Assacasters, since they run along the same line (four basic skills + several others of your choosing, depending on the situation). - Vermain 06:09, 17 September 2007 (CEST)

I like this better than the a/me version of the assacaster, since it has more energy management without even using it's elite ^^, at the cost of not draining 7 energy every 25 seconds. — Skakid9090 06:11, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
 * It's nice, definitely, although I dunno about its use in RA. An Assassin with 70 armor and no method of self-defense or self-healing is going to be eaten alive, since they're usually priority targets if no Monk/Mes/Necro is around. - Vermain 06:15, 17 September 2007 (CEST)


 * then kill em, duh — Skakid9090 06:18, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
 * An assassin's offense is their defense, if you kill them then you won't have to worry about your own life, crude but yes, that's how many of their popular builds are focused on such a high offensive. The only time you should worry about defensive capabilities is if you're PvE'ing. Wyvern 06:29, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I always try and have at least a bit of defense in RA, though. Every res sig used on you means one less for a healer (if you've got one, which is usually a requirement to get very far in RA nowadays). Sometimes, the duration of Feigned Neutrality is all you need to get safely out of range to let your other teammates mop up. - Vermain 06:32, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Archive:A/W Shadow Prison Assassin <- that doesn't exactly have a self-heal, either, but it still works fine. --Wizardboy777 02:43, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

Learn to kite. Add in Bane signet if you must. Then you can triple KD meleers. Swiftslash \\  (contributions  * warrior guide ) 01:45, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

You say that you NEED healer to get far in RA? Bullplap. It's a pure bullplap. I got few times glad with this build + second SoJ + A/D Grenth's Grasp and a N/E anti-melee. If you think you NEED healer to get a glad, then you fail. &mdash; Abedeus   07:36, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * There's the occasional streak where you get nothing but bad opposing teams, but any team with a decent healer is, more than likely, going to bulldoze a team without one. Now, since everyone has recently realized that the easiest way to get glad points is to Monk for their team, it's rare to not see one on the other team. - Vermain 08:11, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

Imo
This is the most annoying build possible. Especially with more than one, the knockdowns are like a cheat code. Railin 09:25, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Touchers and Angorodon's Gazers are worse, but not by a whole lot. ): --InternetLOL 21:46, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

I used to use this way before wiki posted it, but i used holy strike as it had more spike damage.(tele due to augury then get them while they are knocked down, usually SoJ triggers augury.) I also ran it with echo toxic shock,(since the elite can be anything) fun times. Zeron 14:15, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

Sins are cancer

Gah
In my experience i have never seen a lone assascaster actually do much of anything except make the monk he is trying to kill use ~10 energy to heal himself from this "overwhelming spike". Im aware of the KD and what not... but still i have never seen one of these buggers be successful alone. Its like the virulence spiker. This DOES have an edge on virulence spiker b/c you can use these guys in a team... which is the only way i have seen them kill. --Bim (talk|contribs) 21:15, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Exactly. a lot of mesmers can't frag anything by themselves either, what's your point? –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 21:31, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * this build sucks --[[Image:Healing_Hands.jpg|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 21:38, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Then vote as such in stead of explaining why you don't like it here? –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 21:39, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Archive:Me/Mo MoR Domination Mesmer sucks as well, amirite? –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 21:40, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * no that build pwns... its job is to shutdown a target. thats what it does.  this build is made to kill a guy.  that ISNT what it does... --[[Image:Healing_Hands.jpg|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 22:35, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * God forbid a build that does something in between. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 23:06, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Also: if you don't like it and other people do, vote accordingly in stead of discussing it. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 23:07, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * hehe your very.... attached to this build --[[Image:Healing_Hands.jpg|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 23:45, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I haven't even ran this. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 02:46, 21 September 2007 (CEST)

''In my experience i have never seen a lone warrior actually do much of anything except make the monk he is trying to kill use ~10 energy to heal himself from this "overwhelming spike". Im aware of the DW and what not... but still i have never seen one of these buggers be successful alone. Its like the virulence spiker. This DOES have an edge on virulence spiker b/c you can use these guys in a team... which is the only way i have seen them kill.'' lol. --InternetLOL 02:48, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
 * He said, 'lone assascaster' not 'lone warrior'. You misquoted him. Which really should have been hard to do, considering that it's right up there for you to copy and paste. --Wizardboy777 03:03, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I copy/pasted it, and then altered it to show him how ridiculous of an argument it is. :/ --InternetLOL 03:06, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Gotcha. Woulda been more obvious if you'd put something other than 'lol' at the end :P Though, honestly, pointing out that Bim's arguments are ridiculous doesn't really do much. He doesn't seem to care and/or just gets madder, and I think pretty much everyone else has realized by now, especially after this. --Wizardboy777 03:13, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh wow. And he's for cereal there, too. I also changed KD to DW there, so ha. :) --InternetLOL 03:37, 21 September 2007 (CEST)

at least warriors dont die in ~ 5 seconds --Bim (talk|contribs) 21:10, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah that 10 armor adds an extra second. Think before you speak, please. — Skakid9090 22:05, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
 * +30 vs physical attackers and most warriors generally have absorptions runes and almost hallways roll with a shield... which also has extra DR and +16 armor.... and also many warrior builds equip healing sig AT THE LEAST. Some go W/Mo for Mending Touch which removes tough conditions. So o wise Skakid... why dont you think before YOU say something... --[[Image:Healing_Hands.jpg|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 23:55, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Healsig is just to ease the monk, and Mending Touch as a heal? Lol — Skakid9090 01:41, 22 September 2007 (CEST)
 * i referred to Mending Touch to remove tough condtions for more survivability and to remove blind and what not... you guys REALLY make me laugh.... lol --[[Image:Healing_Hands.jpg|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 04:35, 23 September 2007 (CEST)

Bim, before you start ranting about how readem removed your vote, notice that every single one of the other 16 ratings gave it a '5' for effectiveness. You gave it a 1. Either you're not using it right or you haven't bothered to test it. And it seems highly likely that the reason you've never 'seen one of these buggers be successful alone' is because you've never seen one of these 'buggers' at all. Perhaps they just kill you so fast that you never see what hit you. --Wizardboy777 00:45, 22 September 2007 (CEST)

meh Readam always removes votes... hes kinda enforces his views if you know what im saying... anyway im just saying that this build doesnt do enough spike damage quick enough to be a solo kinda guy. and to the dude below me... yeah with 3 i see this as a good build, but alone it never works... and i have seen them before, as a monk, and a simple RoF or Dismiss with an enchant = gg to the sin.... btw thanks for removing my vote asshole.... --Bim (talk|contribs) 04:33, 23 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Just ran it in HA yesterday and held 9 times (3 of these minus castigation signet, 2 nukers, 3 monks) - I assure you, it is not ineffective, Bim. - Auron 00:55, 22 September 2007 (CEST)
 * lul, bim, just stop. This build is quite good, and you appear to be speaking from RA experience and little else.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 14:49, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * And this punks RA tbh. Hard to monk against double KD, RoF does little on Dancing, most damage goes through PS, blocking and return doesn't really help either. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * warrior guide ) 16:25, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Indeed. But at the same time, theres probably some awful build he faced that countered it perfectly.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 17:40, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Balanced stance on a decent monk makes wonders :D Prevents KD chaining and thus interrupts. Then the rest of your party has to not suck and be able to kill the sin but that's not really the point <.< Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * warrior guide ) 19:06, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * When i monk in RA i use SoR... which punks this build. Regen and 1/2 dmg = no death vs this sin. Also time RoF to hit SoTS. Mending Touch DW off if you didnt pre-vail Augury away already.  For other monk builds use Balanced Stance = no KD.  In HA Steadfast Soul is used mucho (or w/e the new name is).  W/e, keep it vetted so more noobs come here and say "WOW!" so they run it in RA so i can get mah glad points.  And i dont only RA.... im r4, love HA, and pve a lot --[[Image:Healing_Hands.jpg|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 19:52, 26 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Lul you jsut used 20 e to counter a spike. now, while your healing the rest of your party, he comes back in less than 12 seconds and fucks you up good, cuz his spike recharges that fast.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 18:38, 27 September 2007 (CEST)
 * well by then his wimpy defenses have collapsed and he is quite dead... --[[Image:Healing_Hands.jpg|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 21:14, 28 September 2007 (CEST)
 * RA =/= 1v1. There will be other players attacking you, combined with the knockdowns from this (unless of course you have every counter to it on your bar at all times) it will usually kill. — Skakid9090 21:40, 28 September 2007 (CEST)

What armor/rune set should be used with this? Full Radiant? It's not on the main page.

I like this
I added Expunge Enchantments for AB to deal with Terra Tanks and removed the energy managment. I have almost full radient insignias (minus the runes) and I haven't run out of energy ever. Also I found this build with the KD is very fun to use to attack touchers. When ever they get close you can KD them.

Add AB tag?
It seemed to work for me in AB. If not, it could with minor adjustments.Stickypanda 03:35, 24 September 2007 (CEST)

Asp?
Entangling Asp must follow a lead attack. What lead attack? Kiteeye 12:40, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Dancing. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * warrior guide ) 12:49, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Indeed. Dancing Daggers is a spell, but it says that it counds as a lead attack. You CAN combo without attack skills (hence Deadly Paradox). :) - Threll 20:38, 24 September 2007 (CEST)

AB skill
Wich skill should you take in replacement of ress sig for AB?


 * From Variants:
 * Restful Breeze for healing.
 * Bane Sig for Castigation, if you don't need to spam.


 * Personally I'd take a mobility skill, expunge or Mantis touch. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * warrior guide ) 19:36, 27 September 2007 (CEST)

Restful breeze is the only real option &mdash; Skuld 19:39, 27 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Could get pretty insane in AB.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 19:44, 27 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Ew for self heal. Force a friend to monk for you can get a speed boost. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * warrior guide ) 19:48, 27 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Tried it, unreliably. &mdash; Skuld 11:32, 7 October 2007 (CEST)

Iron Palm Strike Variant.
I found this build to be very useful, but that it doesn't quite spike targets to death. It gets them close, especially after Augury triggers, but that there isn't a skill to make the final blow. I found that when using Deadly Paradox, it didn't recahrge the skills fast enough to counter any sort of decent healing. So, I dropped DP, and added Iron Palm Strike after Cast Sig, which adds a third KD to the spike chain, and an okay ammount of dmg. Iron palm almost always triggers because of the poison from Asp lasts for a good amount of time. The KD from IPS is a great help because by the time you cast it, your target is usually using their emergency healing skill, which is interuptted and they either die, or can be finished off with a couple DDs. I use this build in AB to great sucess, using Feigned Neutrality, which has a decent effect with 3 (or 4, depending on your rune preferences) points into it for a good self heal. In arenas, I use Rez sig and try to follow the philosophy that a good offense is the best defense. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ralin (contribs).


 * No deadly paradox = less signet of toxic shock = less hitting for 94 armor-ignoring damage that costs no energy. Also = less dancing daggers spammage. --[[Image:Wizardboy777_Sig.jpg|19px]]Wizardboy777 (T/C) 00:04, 5 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Indeed, if you want to tak iron palm, throw out castigation. [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]Dark Morphon 10:22, 5 November 2007 (CET)

A/N
Just a little idea, in the last 3 slots stick in Offering of Blood, Signet of Agony and Angorodon's Gaze. &mdash; Skuld 10:27, 6 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Variation #465. Probably works well. — Skakid9090 04:42, 7 October 2007 (CEST)

That's it...WTB Augry Spiker article. Losing DP is a very bad idea imo, OoB and some other random blood skill imo --Hikari 02:40, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Iron Palm
I think that the castigation signet should be swapped out for iron palm. The shadow step triggered by Augury is crying out for another KD. I've used the iron palm variant many times in AB and i shadow step before i get to use SoJ, which means i have an extra attack to make, and if still doesn't finish the enemy off another set of dancing daggers is needed only to completely kill a foe outright.Amorality 11:53, 11 October 2007 (CEST)


 * the shadow step is unreliable, energy's better with castig. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 11:28, 11 October 2007 (CEST)


 * in what way is it unreliable? once the foe's health reaches below 50% you shadow step providing you are in range, and you should be in range to execute dancing daggers, and simply use iron palm. I have used this build enough to gain one rank and never has the shadow step not worked... Explain please. Amorality 11:38, 11 October 2007 (CEST)


 * oh and with the correct runes i have about ~50 energy its enough to use the sequence a couple of times before necessary recharge. Amorality 11:40, 11 October 2007 (CEST)


 * It's unreliable because if they get healed or augury gets removed you don't shadow step. --[[Image:Wizardboy777_Sig.jpg|19px]]Wizardboy777 (T/C) 01:02, 14 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Uh huh but doesn't hex removal affect all hexes? and surely you have team mates who can co-ordinate a decent pressure? Also, with the relatively short recharge time you can re-apply... -Amorality 22:15, 14 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Teammates? RA and CM don't allow you to select them, HA and AB are...well... –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 08:47, 15 October 2007 (CEST)
 * hmmmm? ^_^ I don't follow, select what? Amorality 11:51, 15 October 2007 (CEST)
 * ...Teammates. --71.229.204.25 12:53, 15 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Why would you wan't to select teammates? Amorality 15:08, 16 October 2007 (CEST)
 * "and surely you have team mates who can co-ordinate a decent pressure" –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 15:19, 16 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I think you misunderstand, I mean that..well now i'm confused ^_^ With augury of death you can re-apply and usually you all go for high priority targets first (monks & mesmers etc) you can keep the enemy's health down allowing you to shadow step. Of course assassins are meant to spike on their own but its a team job to spike/pressure a high priority target. thats what I meant by team mates. So to sum up; you can either re-apply or create a decent enough pressure to make sure you can shadow step. ok? -Amorality 13:51, 17 October 2007 (CEST)

Nerfed?
With the update to Paradox, does it still work? -Signed Colonel Hawk 21:30, 17 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes. Sign your comments with 4 Tildes ~ — Skakid9090 04:03, 17 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Still works. Nerf again plx. Tycn 13:53, 17 October 2007 (CEST)

Toro
Easily the most annoying build in guildwars, the overall public approval is not, expect much hate from using this build. Also, expect it to be nerfed, it's total crack.
 * Even more annoying than the toucher build? ^_^ Amorality 14:57, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Ah, well, I guess thats the way it works with GW. ^.^ We make use of Deadly Arts, FOR ONCE, and then poof, it's gone because people are to stupid to counter it. It's called the metagames people, a mesmer could shut this build down to rediculiously fast without dedicating his whole bar to it, but they don't, because that way GW rolls. OMG This build is too good, nerf pl0x, I don't wanna bring a counter, *nerf* thank you anet, we love you. /rollseyes. Bowflight 21:35, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Except it's run in places like RA and AB (perhaps HA... dunno if it's still used there). IE, places where you can't rely on your teammates. What if I don't want to play a mesmer? --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 21:48, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Rust Icy Prism Complicate Ignorance Wild Blow Distracting Blow Disrupting Dagger Disrupting Stab Distracting Shot Savage Shot Disrupting Throw Wild Throw Balanced Stance Ward of Stability Steady Stance Aura of Stability Backfire Soul Leech Warmonger's Weapon Fleeting Stability need I go on? --[[Image:Wizardboy777_Sig.jpg|19px]]Wizardboy777 (T/C) 00:45, 20 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I'd say about half of those skills are useless except as counters to that build, and the other half aren't very effective counters. Int-ing a 2/3s cast ain't too easy. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 01:44, 20 October 2007 (CEST)
 * This build is too good, dual KD low recharge high damage and eman. Anet seriously needs to nerf it...--√ iktor 04:14, 27 October 2007 (CEST)
 * They nerfed Deadly Paradox. :( [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet •  t  /  c  06:30, 27 October 2007 (CEST)
 * That nerf hardly changed the builds effetiveness atall its still a superior build--√ iktor 09:36, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * It's possible (still difficult) to reactively interrupt the skills now. For the old version, you just had to hope they they chained their skills. Tycn 10:10, 28 October 2007 (CET)

Deadly Haste
Could deadly haste be thrown in there instead of deadly paradox? Himynameisbobbyjoe 23:17, 1 November 2007 (CET)


 * Wastrel's collapse could be thrown in instead of signet of judgment, but that doesn't mean it would still work. So yes, you could put in deadly haste, but that wouldn't decrease activation times and it wouldn't affect entangling asp and signet of toxic shock at all, because they aren't half-range. --[[Image:Wizardboy777_Sig.jpg|19px]]Wizardboy777 (T/C/Sysop) 00:36, 2 November 2007 (CET)
 * And it's crit strikes spec'd. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 00:43, 3 November 2007 (CET)
 * Critical wanding to make up for the energy deadly haste wastes? omg yes plz. -- Wyvern 00:56, 3 November 2007 (CET)

Lame
Sign here if you think this build is lame as hell and needs to be nerfed to death please. --Neoprog 11:04, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Plenty of counters, use them. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]Unreal Havoc  11:06, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Doesn't take away that this build is lame as hell... --Neoprog 11:07, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Tbh, if you have to change your build to counter something, it's imba. These things aren't going to get nerfed to death just yet, it's Anet's usual plan to leave it until it's too late. And I don't think there's a single person who would argue that these aren't 'lame', so this petition is pointless. — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 11:21, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * I don't think it's lame, I love it! =) [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]Unreal Havoc  11:26, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Likewise. But you've gotta accept that it's imba <.< — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 11:29, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Sorry, I don't understand that terminology. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Unreal Havoc  11:35, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Imba(lanced). — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 11:52, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Shouldn't that be unbalanced? UNBA? :D [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Unreal Havoc  11:58, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Right, it's just your usual this-build-is-imba/lame-rant petition. Adopt, adept and improve. But I still hate it >:( (and yes, it should be unba :P) --Neoprog 14:53, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * See here's the thing. You can't counter everything with one build. If you could then no build would have a defining strength that makes it stand out, and they all have the fair share of weaknesses too. It was the same with Touchers, they had plenty of counters just no one ever chose to take them, even though they knew the build was popular and should have prepared for it. People would rather cry about a build and call for a nerf rather than actually use their head and prepare a counter for it in advance, especially if it's meta. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]'''[[User:Unreal Havoc|<font color="Blue">Unreal

Havoc ]]''' 15:00, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * It's not that I can't use my head... I'm not your average QQer. I know how to play the game and hate to see nearly every single of my not-specifically-designed-to-smash-A/Mo builds get beaten to bits by these. (Was that a good sentence? No idea :P) Ok, it is counterable, I can survive em, but then again, they're ridiculously strong. My point is made, end of story. --Neoprog 00:00, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * Everybody took counters for touchers, i.e. move. Just that everybody who complained about them all the time didn't have the brains to do it.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 12:35, 23 November 2007 (CET)
 * if you had a build that didn't have to be modded to counter imba builds wouldn't your build be imba too? Think about touchers and this build. Also, those 2 builds do have simple counters. Diversion is the first one I think of. --67.86.84.167 22:52, 19 November 2008 (EST)
 * Old topic is old.--<font color="Black">Simpson Man [[image:simpsonsig.png]] 02:54, 20 November 2008 (EST)

No counter to dual KDs take in place in 3 seconds. The counters listed are lie. It's an ultra meta lame build.--140.128.67.248 04:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Question
Question: can this be done as a Mo/A, and will it work as good ( if not better ) - Lisark 20:06, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * It would suck, just roll a PvP assassin. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 20:22, 9 November 2007 (CET)

A/D Variant
[build prof=assas/derv deadly=12+1+1 wind=12][Augury of Death][Dancing Daggers][Entangling Asp][Signet of Toxic Shock][Deadly Paradox][assassin's promise][natural healing][Resurrection Signet][/build] Been trying this out in RA, where monks are very often very rare. Much more survivable at the sacrifice of some damage. E-management is pretty darned good with assassin's promise too--Goldenstar 20:59, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * No, monks are common, VERY common. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey   (talk)  21:01, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * And half decent ones are rarer than a perfect gold r8 crystalline--Goldenstar 01:43, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * I'm a half decent monk in RA but I just prefer to heal with my Assassin :p <font color="Black">Viet (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:44, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * Ap is fail. any monk worth his salt can keep a guy alive against assacast(not indefinetly, but long enough for you to waste your elite).[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 16:03, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * I disagree, unless the monk is the target himself, any monk worth his salt can keep a guy alive against an assacaster indefinetly.Bob fregman 01:37, 14 November 2007 (CET)
 * Maybe some. this knockdown bitch, though? not a chance.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 16:37, 14 November 2007 (CET)

AP tends to work in RA and PvE, because of bad monks (nice analogy, Goldenstar :p). However, I still prefer the SoJ version; knock-lock kills. LavaEdge324 04:16, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Disrupting Dagger
I've used it in place of Castigation Sig; seriously, a 1/6th cast nearly guaranteed interrupt, that recharges in ~7 seconds, and works on anything is uber hax in my book. LavaEdge324 22:48, 21 November 2007 (CET)

plz nerf
Wow this is the most annoying build ever, Anet nerfs sins with daggers, but not sins with staffs?? Like noobs are running around with this and its so annoying Himynameisbobbyjoe 14:31, 22 November 2007 (CET)
 * Carry a counter? I mean come on, if they're so common, don't just go in saying "lol, I'll just go standard. No need to counter the overly common caster sins." LavaEdge324 06:27, 23 November 2007 (CET)
 * It's extremely difficult to have a counter though. Even with the nerf of DP to 33%, A/Mo's are extremely popular precisely because of the lack of counters. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  06:43, 23 November 2007 (CET)
 * Extremely difficult to have a counter? LMAO! Take a Mesmer and stick Backfire with a nice amount of degen on them and they run scared. They don't like Shock sins much either. There's plenty of ways to beat them, just no one bothers to take counters, they'ld rather ignore them and call for a nerf than take a proper counter, and then wonder why they get owned so hard in the first place. Reminds me of Touchers in that respect. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Unreal Havoc  09:22, 23 November 2007 (CET)
 * Yeah but what about the people that doent enjoy playing mesmer or ranger, there are builds out there that do lots more damage but this one is just realy hard to counter exept interupt (which is reasonably hard against this build) or total shutdown which only mesmers can do.<font color="Blue">Gnarok 
 * The problem with backfire is that it sucks except in hex heavy teams in GvG. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  13:07, 23 November 2007 (CET)
 * If you're forced to run a useless skill like Backfire to counter a specific build, that demonstrates that it's imba. In this case, Backfire pesters all casters, this build even less so because of the signets. And compare this to any other common, good offensive build - it's a lot harder to counter. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 14:03, 23 November 2007 (CET)
 * Unreal, this build is nuts to counter. You practically need to dedicate your bar and then you're meh against most others.  This is a really powerful build and the kd lock makes it even better.Bob fregman 03:50, 24 November 2007 (CET)


 * Hahaha lol I don't think running is a skill to fill up the bar.... run like hell 'cause Dancing daggers, the key to the chain, needs "half the normal range". If I see an A/Mo with a staff, I run away.... or maybe cast Prot sprit or Spirit bond on myself if I'm a monk... Think people think! You don't need to fill up a whole bar to counter a build... Besides, mesmers need a use, don't they?--86.122.189.186 20:52, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Anon, ur stupid, if ur running away, ur not helping your team, the sin would switch targets... and prot spirit and bond keep you alive, but the KD lock ruins your ability to prot/heal any teammates.--Drowning Pigeon 13:21, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Listed counters are shit, you cant counter dual KDs espicially they cause in 3 seconds. Those people say its not an op lame build are just enjoy this 1234567 moron spike. I must say this old overpowered build still no counters Learn to play balanced.--140.128.67.248 04:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Balanced Stance is a pretty useful counter. Also used for other forms of KD too, so it's not like it doesn't help you at all. You should be able to save allies. Prot Spirit and SB are feasible reducers, but if you're taking the KDs, you're gonna be in trouble. Still, if you try to counter this, you're not going to be quite as good overall, plus Balanced Stance's recharge is a little high to work consistently. If you have a decent team, it should be enough though (that's a little much to ask from an RA team, I know). 68.51.95.206 23:12, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I think I have a decent way to balance this
With these, the build would still be viable, but it wouldn't rule RA and TA's fast battles. 5 more recharge on the other two sigs means more time between spikes, but of course, DD and EA pressure still exists. I personally would see this as a good balance; I don't want to see the build nerfed the heck out of, but they are currently a little too imba. LavaEdge324 21:32, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Lower Castigation Signet's E-gain. This helps reduce the spammability, so it would be harder to use in quicker paced fights.
 * Increase SoJ recharge to 25. Less KD, but still enough to provide pressure.
 * SoTS - rc to 20. Again, less spam, but still has pressure.
 * Oooorrr, make Deadly Paradox an elite. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  21:48, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * No grinch. The "NO MOAR PERMA-SF" QQ would be....ugh.... –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 03:41, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * DP as an elite would suck... we're trying to balance it, not completely destroy it. LavaEdge324 20:54, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * Nerfing monk signets just makes smiting even more useless. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 21:02, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * Buff DP to 50/50 again, make elite. It's definately worth being an elite. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  21:15, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * Make DP scale from 5...50%, and last/ recharge in 5s, and cost 10e. 70.146.156.96 21:17, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * Make DP an Elite W/o that disable consequence and boost it back up to 50%--Shadowsin 07:20, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Make DP turn your computer into a snarky talking death-ray when you use it. --71.229.204.25 07:30, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Oh, we were being serious?
 * In that case, make DP turn your penis into a snarky talking death-ray when you use it. --71.229.204.25 07:38, 27 November 2007 (CET)

lol @ everyone that says nerf this cause there are no counters. How about Nerfing Heroway, IWAY, Zergway, Sway....instead, lets make EW not last as long as it used to....good one anet. You know what will happen if nerfs that drastically alter certain popular builds continue? Everyone will run Zerg, or some gimmick, then it will get nerfed, then everyone will move onto the next gimmick. So instead of asking "what if no one wants to play Mesmer?", try saying, ok then we obviously dont care enough to bring a obvious counter..<font color="Orange">Devintomb1 <font color="Green">+talk  15:37, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Yes, we all know that. It doesn't matter.  If there is no counter to a build, it's overpowered and needs to be nerfed.  Pretty simple, really. --71.229.204.25 20:07, 27 November 2007 (CET) <font size="1" color="gray">why the fuck did anet hire izzy?  his entire job experience is asheron's call 1&2, associating the phrase 'skill balance' with 1 is laughable and 2 just fucking failed.
 * AoM counters every stupid gimmick there is xD AoM+Fleeting Stability ftw!--Shadowsin 20:27, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Dancing daggers @ 15recharge? DP to cost 10 energy and last 10 seconds? SoTS to deal less damage? Xiao 20:51, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * SoTS -> typed damage and nerf Augury. It's the 106 clean damage and the ridiculous DW duration that really kills. --71.229.204.25 20:53, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * I am an HBer, a pretty decent one too, and in the top 1000 (look up Plasma Kirby, thats me). I have found that there are NUMEROUS counters to this build, and its pretty hilarious how EASY they are. Solution to beating this build is just Pre-Prot, which is something good monks do anyway. Shielding hands, OR Shield of Regeneration, OR spirit bond will totally shut down this build for their entire duration, as this has no enchant-removal. Also, it has not very good e-management - castigation requires an attacking foe, and monks NEVER attack, only kite. Learn to use 1/4 cast time spells and pre-prot. Aura of Stability is a pretty good enchantment too, for anti-kd, or fleeting stability, or balanced stance. You might not be able to keep these up all the time, but as soon as they waste the 20-25 energy (DP, augury, DD, entangling), that's half their energy, which effectively shuts them down for quite a bit.71.126.84.97 21:50, 28 November 2007 (CET)

Possible paragon secondary
How well would this combine with something like awe from the paragon? It might be even more powerful than a knockdown. Im going to test it out soon.

Archive
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! --71.229.204.25 01:56, 30 November 2007 (CET)

PARTY!! 70.157.62.137 02:09, 30 November 2007 (CET)
 * It doesn't work for AB? I don't see why not.--63.228.115.99 08:57, 30 November 2007 (CET)
 * Because it's dead. It doesn't work for anything anymore, requires too much energy. --71.229.204.25 09:28, 30 November 2007 (CET)
 * This thing wasn't great on energy before, now it's totally screaming for bips. - Auron 10:30, 30 November 2007 (CET)
 * Yay! They probably will go away, now it's archived here (nerf has nothing to do with it :p) --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 21:01, 30 November 2007 (CET)
 * PAARTYYYYY! COME ON GW TO CELEBRATE PPL WHOOHOOO! [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]<font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  10:14, 1 December 2007 (CET)
 * I have seen it used by Sins throughout the weekend. So one can argue it is worse, and I do not think they were really effective with this build. What now? Unarchive and re-evaluate votes or wait till someone posts it again and give it a 2-3.0? I am not too happy about this build getting archived. So I agree with the other user who said it works in AB - many others seem to share this belief (personally, I do not think so). --Longasc 01:54, 3 December 2007 (CET)
 * AB is not a viable metric for build performance. --71.229.204.25 01:59, 3 December 2007 (CET) <font size="1" color="gray">lol big words

Looks like I'm back to Moebius >_>
Considering that I don't have EotN >_> LavaEdge324 03:15, 1 December 2007 (CET)

Deadly Haste?
Viable? Maybe? 75.45.92.17 22:30, 2 December 2007 (CET)

Maybe, but we don't want to bring it back. :/ 70.157.62.167 22:35, 2 December 2007 (CET)
 * Only one that will be hasted is DD, and that 7sec SoTS is what made the build good. --71.229.204.25 02:00, 3 December 2007 (CET)

Unarchive?
Mebbe? coz people still run it a lot, I run it a lot, its just moar balanced now, rest is still lethal. --<font color="Purple"><tt>I</tt>g<tt>o</tt>r<tt></tt> 10:00, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Hmm yeah, energy problems are annoying but manage-able. Just know when you can use DP and when not. [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]<font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon <font color="Black"> (contribs)  11:18, 4 February 2008 (EST)


 * Exactly my frend, I would call this Balanced now rather than Killed coz it still owns faces and arses big time and ur energy would be fine most likely especially if u take High Energy set just in case. So, I /signed for unarchieving this build. :) --[[Image:SuperIgorsig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Purple"><tt>I</tt>g<tt>o</tt>r<tt></tt> 11:38, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Signed, I still use this to good effect. Selket Shadowdancer 11:39, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Still, the only thing countering energy cost from DP is Castigation, and that isn't great. Maybe unarchive, but I doubt this would be "Great" material. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  15:56, 4 February 2008 (EST)

It should be unarchieved for sure coz it still pwns and is used a lot, and besides we have other categories rather than Great.--<font color="Purple"><tt>I</tt>g<tt>o</tt>r<tt></tt> 12:09, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * Maybe other rating? Still better then archived. Justing6 21:12, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

this is still viable, i /sign for unarchive, it's not great, but this still deserves a good tag. Drownz 09:49, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Move back into testing then? Selket Shadowdancer 09:51, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

I agree the E-Management of this puts it well out of the 'Great' category but even still its a good build. Definately Unarchive it, and put it back in to testing.--Tyris 11:37, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

This build is a shining testament to the fact that Izzy fails at skill balance, it still knocklocks and kills any single healer not using Balanced Stance and has almost no energy problems thanks to Castigation Signet. Hell, I've seen this used with some success not even using Deadly Paradox and instead packing in utility skills and/or Iron Palm <font color="Black">Phalmatticus 16:56, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

Skaddidles
-- Frosty  20:18, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Build:A/Mo_-->HB<---_Deadly_Arts_Sin  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 20:22, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Change the name tag it for more areas, problem solved. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 20:25, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
 * No.  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 22:25, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Castigation Signet should be in variants.--Tyris 22:58, 4 October 2008 (EDT)


 * Also u sould add a note to use armour with radiants + attunemens cuz this requires alot of energy.--Tyris 23:03, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

'''Is there a way to make this build effective w/o nightfall? Justin'''
 * no--<font color="Black">Simpson Man [[image:simpsonsig.png]] 14:37, 2 November 2008 (EST)
 * you're only missing the main skill in the skill bar w/o factions...-- Ikimono <font color ="Silver">Thinks before commenting [[Image:Paragon-icon-small.png]] 14:48, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Warstel now own this
no? Syn 17:20, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Equipment for Assacaster
What armor would be most effective for this build? Like high energy, survivor, etc. Please justify which armor to use.
 * Full survivor/Vitae with Sup Vigor and a smiting staff. --<font color="Purple">Ojamo  <font color="Green">(>.<( O=(- -Q)  00:10, 29 December 2008 (EST)

dead
no ones uses this anymore. i think people cried too much. ive never used this build ever and its never bothered me. its only just as annoying as blind is to a warrior. its so easy to counter it. but whatever xD now that this is out of use almost completely my sin build is imba and everyone is asking for it in RA =P
 * Palm strike =/= your build.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 09:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * RA =/= generalization of PvP builds. -- 10:35, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Most ladder HB players use this. <font color="darkblue" face="Comic Sans MS">Crazy <font color="orange" face="Comic Sans MS">Cow  10:37, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * No they don't and arguing with anons is brave. Just ignore him--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 10:43, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * 'my sin build is imba and everyone is asking for it in RA =P' Lol'd, its prolly on wiki;o<font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Pet Whale  08:13, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * This build's just too expensive energy-wise. If they use this in any ladder, they must be die-hard fans of the good ol' days when it wasn't nuked beyond repair. A/Me variant offers better e-management and is there just for that reason. SoJ Assacaster's are dead.. Face facts. --BlazingBurdy 05:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I heard knowing what the fuck you're talking about is good. --71.229 05:11, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Things die too fast in ra to run out of energy--Relyk 06:21, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Not enough juice and e-denail will fux u right up. I know; I've used it many times. Makez ur laight bleu barr goz darck bluez barr reel fasts. Can I plz has moar energyz? *looks at the A/Me Build variant* YEEEEY Thnx U! --BlazingBurdy 22:57, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Name
Should it be changed or is this what actually comes to peoples minds when someone says Assacaster? Spaggage  talk  21:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * its what i think, i actualy just think deadly arts. Unreal [[Image:Cute mc puppies.jpg|19px]] 21:37, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * TBH it has many names. SoJsin, assacaster, deadly arts sin...but was created as assacaster ^^ --<font color="FF4500" face="calibri">Darklɘs  <font color="#FF8C00" face="calibri">McChaosmongɘr  [[Image:Darwkchawossig.jpg|19px]] 21:45, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I think of Unreal. And surely you mean SoJ sin Chaos? Lol. Spaggage  talk  21:55, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ofc, rofl ^^ my mind is coulded with this RoJ way XP ~ fixed btw --<font color="FF4500" face="calibri">Darklɘs  <font color="#FF8C00" face="calibri">McChaosmongɘr  [[Image:Darwkchawossig.jpg|19px]] 22:02, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Heheh, cool cool. Rename to SoJ Assacaster? Spaggage  talk  22:03, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * well, "Assacaster" refering to "assasin caster" inorite and not the exact build,i.e. there is an A/Me variant with Lyssa's Aura so RoJ Assacaster would make more sense. as i get flamed for this comment --<font color="FF4500" face="calibri">Darklɘs  <font color="#FF8C00" face="calibri">McChaosmongɘr  [[Image:Darwkchawossig.jpg|19px]] 22:19, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing you mean SoJ again, right? ^^" Spaggage  talk  08:39, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A/Mo Assacaster is perfectly descriptive. --71.229 08:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. -- -Ch  ao  s-   08:51, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

This is the Assacaster, I don't see why this needs discussion--Relyk 07:19, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see why you need to tell people that, when that discussion has been ended over a month ago... Brandnew 09:02, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Quarter Knock
How much fast casting would I need to slip a 1/4s cast in before Entangling? Teutonic 16:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * First tell me how you would me/A/Mo. ^_^ Brandnew 16:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No! If an AMo is attacking me :) Teutonic 20:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The cancer that is killing Guild War.
ASSASSINS YOU ARE CANCER More like ASScaster.
 * Oh you're so witty. What's Guild War btw? Spaggage  talk  21:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)