Build talk:W/A PvP Forceful Blow

Actually doesn't look half bad, can remove balanced stance, big domages weakness spam, and unblockable! --Frosty  10:56, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

I've done some messing around with it and like frenzy a lot more. It has good pressure and energy management with a respectable spike. -  Zero .Six   17:19, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Even though this doesn't pump out the same amount of knockdowns that hammers regularly have and thus Flail becomes less efficient, it'd still mean that you have a 60AI (+20 v physical) frontliner. -- Chaos?  -- 00:22, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's too clumsy to use flail with this since it doesn't lead with a KD. I actually see this being better than pre-NF frenzy hammer's since you don't have to worry about hammer bash / heavy blow owning your cancel. Just have to see how it plays out I guess. -  Zero .Six  [[Image:Z123.PNG]] 00:58, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah what's there to worry about when your cancel recharges in 20s. -- Chaos?  -- 01:01, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Rush has a 20s recharge? -  Zero .Six  [[Image:Z123.PNG]] 02:54, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Enraging is mainbar'd. Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  03:15, 27 February 2010
 * Didn't the WE Hammer bar use Frenzy+Rush though? And ECharge isn't really needed( FB is 4a and HB is 5), it's just nice to have your chain ready off the bat.[[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 03:20, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Allows Forceful -> (Prostrike + Flail) -> Heavy Blow -> Crushing -> Enraging -> Forceful -> Heavy Blow -> (Bull's). -- Chaos?  -- 10:31, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, they didn't PvE/PvP split FB?
Oshit. I guess 5-5 then Zzzz. Karate  Jesus  03:15, 27 February 2010

Updated the build, plays more like a conventional warrior than a hammer warrior, Forceful packs so much utility it's epic. --Frosty  00:17, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Redundant weakness is redundant? Unless it's for the 1sec activation. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 03:43, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

What the hell were they thinking? It's Whirling Axe on a hammer, only with more damage and Weakness. Widow maker 18:49, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Staggering Blow
Plz explain why it is on the bar. You already have an unblockable source of weakness costing only 4 adrenalin, and big deal 1 sec activation. Must be a better option. --Smity the Smith 04:29, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would personally go for this instead of Fierce Blow + Staggering.  Terran  15:44, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * fierce is better than crushing b/c you already have an energy heavy bar--TahiriVeila 15:46, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The current version is simular to Whirling Axe except it's worse but it causes Weakness.  Terran  15:55, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * You know hammers do more DPS than axes? Misery  16:12, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like I said, read the build page, trades kd's for domages, it has many of them --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 16:46, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The thing is, you have to use Forceful first in order for your Deep Wound to apply. An axe warrior can pretty much apply Deep Wound instantly and use Whirling When necessary.  Terran  17:39, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hence why staggering is also pretty good here. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 18:19, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Also inb4 wtf Staggering Blow, a 1sec activation (which is less with Frenzy) hammer attack is crazy. --<font color="Black">Frosty  16:47, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yh. i've used it and It's a .66 second attack with a huge hammer. how's that not good? Exo Oo 18:44, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Weapon of Fury, Enraged Smash, Protector's Strike, Staggering Blow, Heavy Blow. Whhhaaaaaaaaat.......--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown"> "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 01:24, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * If I really want damage, I'll go Axe. I hear Whirling Shock Axe does the same thing, but better! --BlazingBurdy 02:56, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel like breaching NPA.
 * I understood this has a higher damage output than Axe, at the expense of not having a shield. -- Chaos?  -- 08:55, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hear Whirling Shock Axe does the same thing, but without the higher hammer damage, the additional damage from the skill, the Weakness, or the +dmg from Fierce Blow which Dismember doesn't have. Widow maker 13:11, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * D.Chop >>> Weakness. Weakness can be removed, disabling cannot. --BlazingBurdy 05:49, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, moar armors. --BlazingBurdy 05:50, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Granted, Axe could take DChop, which is great, but this and Build:W/E PvP Whirling Axe are in fact identical but for the fact that it has an axe and this has a hammer, 2 more damage (though executioner's over bb would match it), weakness and the fact that the extra damage is on the same skill as the deep wound, so your first two attacks are more powerful at the expense of your third. Also, be brave and get more damage instead of a shield, you already have pretty high armour. In somewhere like CM or AB, DChop is also less useful since everyone's dying a lot and spending much of their time running around. Widow maker 22:51, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

If your not taking knockdowns then it doesnt have enough of an attack speed to pressure efficiently. In my opinion this is just a warrior trying to be a dervish and failing.
 * 1. Lrn to wiki
 * 2. Bull's Strike
 * 3. Protector's Strike, Frenzy
 * 4. Pressure Axe, not Dervish. durp.
 * --<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown">...And my Axe! [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 17:16, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * stfu iki. Frenzy + hammer & +38 attack that's only four adren and removes stance does massive damage. In an 8v8 tri-melee build, this pumps.--TahiriVeila 17:43, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was replying to a person who didn't sign and put a space before their comment to make it break the pageflow. If I knew how to add the "this unsigned comment was left by ____" I would have.--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown">...And my Axe! [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 17:46, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh, just go [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 21:14, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * ups i thought you were being bad at the game ^_________^--TahiriVeila 17:50, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * no problem, it happens when people don't sign.--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown">...And my Axe! [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 19:18, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

I don't ever see this build used in RA either:
Frenzy on Hammer warriors is suicidal in RA. VoR, Empathy, Faintheartedness, blind, and weakness are far too common there. That, and since everybody's usually a block/anti-melee whore, warriors often become a #1 target. Remove RA tag [at a minimum]? --BlazingBurdy 07:36, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Frenzy isn't suicidal when you have a readily available cancel, those things apply to every melee build you can use, so unless you want to untag all melee builds from RA... <font color="#A55858">Frosty 07:51, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * i seldom see this build played anywhere, and i have to admit that frenzy is more of a liability on warriors without shields. it's a novel idea, but people don't play this because there's better alternatives on the warrior, plain and simple.74.61.39.33 16:47, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

epiphany!
Bull's Strike goes in that 4th skill slot [not showing... dunno why]. What do ya'll think? IAS, IMS, More energy regen, slightly less armor [I know], but hey: no double-damage clause! :D --BlazingBurdy 05:09, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2/5s IAS and 3/5s IMS, both costing 5 energy. What the fuck? -- DANDY ^_^ -- 05:42, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wtf?-- Relyk  talk  06:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Energy is sufficient even without zealous. I was on vamp the whole time while using it. --BlazingBurdy 06:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops! I should've clarified that this variant is to be used by a dervish. I posted it here because I'm just too lazy to formally submit this build. :P --BlazingBurdy 07:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Why not just play a scythe dervish? --Lemming 07:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, why not have more energy skills since Dervishes have +4 Energy regeneration in comparison to a Warrior's +2. <font color="#339933" face="Comic Sans MS">Angueo [[Image:AngueoSignature.jpg|19px]] 08:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're losing armor, damage, and enchantments on yourself (the monk's gonna love that) to get... Um.... Nothing, actually. If you're not a tard, Frenzy's double damage isn't even a factor, especially in low-level arenas where warriors are usually lowest on priority. Mysticism wouldn't do shit here, and you don't need the extra regen. There's literally no reason I can see to run that pos. -- Jai . - <font color="#7A7A7A"> 17:40, September 29 2010 (UTC)
 * Warriors are usually the first to be targeted in RA [believe it or not], and frenzy + hammer makes it even more so. Reason behind this being that, if they're running standard PvX builds, they'll have no block or defense whatsoever. This in turn puts pressure on monks to spend their energy healing them. The order in which I see players taking teams down is usually the foe with the least amount of anti-melee and defense, with warriors being one of the more popular targets. Monks usually have two stances or skills that block or prevent knock-down. Thus, the opposition will usually target warriors or other casters first. This is ofc unless you have a perfect team of maybe a Whirling Axe Warrior, an E-Surge Mesmer, and some other strong and utile team member[i.e.: Corrupt Ench. Necro]. In that case, unless a monk uses Protector's Defense/Dolyak's, they have what it takes to successfully break through even a monk's defense. --BlazingBurdy 19:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, what does armor matter in RA if blind and empathy are ridiculously overused and abused? Frenzy will either a.) never see the light of day, or b.) get you raped somewhere along the line. --BlazingBurdy 19:25, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, Forsaken Insignias plus pious stances to keep enchantments off you? Bumps you to 80 AL easily. --BlazingBurdy 19:33, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * urbad-- Relyk  talk  20:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * sobad-- Jai . - <font color="#7A7A7A"> 20:13, September 29 2010 (UTC)
 * What's so bad about no double damage clause? Or about having the same utilities? --BlazingBurdy 17:10, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, let's see here. The duration of your IAS and IMS skills are shit, your damage is going to be shit because you don't have Strength or runes for Hammer Mastery, Bull's does much less damage, Prot Strike does much less damage, your primary attribute is completely useless here, you have less armor which DOES matter a lot, and you're getting absolutely nothing from being Derv besides shittier skills and 2 pips of regen that you don't need.
 * And anyway, if you're playing melee, 90% of the time you won't make any consecutive wins without a monk, simply because Empathy and ESurge rape everything up the ass if you don't have someone to clean them. Also, Sentinel's insignia plus not stripping fucking everything your monk puts on you, bumps you to 100 AL and doesn't make you a pile of shit bringing the whole team down, quite easily. Stop failing, thanks. -- Jai . - <font color="#7A7A7A"> 21:36, September 30 2010 (UTC)

Flail, Dash and Hammer Bash (drop Auspicious) on some random top 10 guild, was KvZ or w/e. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 17:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I updated the build to Warrior/Assassin, which is what you observed, but one person disagrees with us and moved it back to W/Any.--War Pig5 17:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Iron Palm should be mainbar
I think Iron Palm should be mainbar since without it there's no way to qknock a non-moving target. For this reason, this build is only used with Iron Palm in the GvG meta. Assassin secondary is also a fine choice elsewhere in PvP. The other optional skills (aside from the Warrior skills, Assassin skills, and shock) were put there years ago and are not currently good (and most never were). (Iron Palm is optional on other hammer builds because they get the required knockdown from their elite.) Feel free to discuss this issue. The article currently has Iron Palm optional with followed by a phrase about it being required. I can live with this compromise but I don't think it is ideal. --War Pig5 16:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)