PvXwiki talk:Style and formatting

Discussion
We need to fix all the broken links in this article ... I would but its locked. --MasterPatricko 20:03, 20 May 2007 (CEST)

Done. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  20:18, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Impressive! That was very fast ... if only everything were that simple :) --MasterPatricko 20:23, 20 May 2007 (CEST)

The template gives a notes section, but we say later on to delete that section as much as possible. Take it off the template and add a note about it instead? -- Armond Warblade 19:38, 23 May 2007 (CEST)

I suggest to put this into Category:Guides. --Hhhippo 01:40, 3 June 2007 (CEST)

Optional Skill Slot Message Location
I think it would fit best if we put optional skill slot messages inside variants. 1. It would keep the top of page have more generic view along with other builds that doesn't use optional skill slot. 2. If there was some sort of variant that would make a different use of the optional skill slot, it would be tied together in a nicer maner. 3. Plus, it is technically a variant since there are multiple choices. Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 05:34, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Broken link
In the section starting at PvXwiki:Style_and_formatting, the link at needs to be de-wikified. It's currently an invalid link to an article in the "GuildWiki" namespace, which is not relevant here. The article is edit protected, so I'm unable to edit it myself. --161.88.255.139 08:19, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

sunspear skills
i say put a note that says something like "until the gwbbcode is updated and the new skills are put in, an optional slot with a not under the skill bar should be used to show these skills are used". - Skakid9090 19:30, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

variants are a mess
while variants are good, people get out of control with them. second skill bars should not be allowed on any build. it's a way to get shitty builds past the vetting system and I'm sick of seeing this. Skakid9090 20:01, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

buuuuuump it up. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Skakid9090 (contribs). 07:01, 4 August 2007 (CEST)

another bump. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090 (contribs). 05:37, 7 August 2007 (CEST)

MY NEW BUILD
I just made a new build called the Holy Barrage and it won't show up. User:Master of Water 11:26, 4 Aughust 2007

unprotect plz
you don't need to protect policy pages... &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090 (contribs). 05:37, 7 August 2007 (CEST)

bump. &mdash; Skakid9090 04:21, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I'll check with DE if it's ok.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 05:03, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

20 dashes
sidescrolling FTL. Are you just being funny skakid, or did you pass out on your dash key? --Mafaraxas 04:41, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Sorry. Grinch, you fucked it up now. I added a few extra dashes (copied from main page because I forgot how to close noincludes) and you added a whole 2nd attribute section =) — Skakid9090 05:07, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Maybe it would be a good idea to work on this on a separate page and move it here when it's done. –&thinsp;H HHIPPO  &thinsp;&lsaquo;sysop &rsaquo; 09:43, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

Why were the changes reverted? My version kept builds form being uncategorized, this one leads to confusion since mny people dont know what the tags do. I added extra dashes because I didn't know, that's no reason to change it back. — Skakid9090 21:39, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * The page was a bit messed up with parts of the template repeated in the main text. However, having the build-stub tag outside the comment is a good thing, I re-implemented that part. –&thinsp;H HHIPPO  &thinsp;&lsaquo;sysop &rsaquo; 22:31, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

Help?
Hey im new to wiki, and im trying to submit a build but I didnt quite get the guide, can somebody send me an email at tabfun@charter.net on how to submit a build? thanks

Barebones Template?
I went here to just quick copy the template but it's gone. Where'd it go? I checked in my sock drawer and it wasn't there... -- Guild of  Deals  21:11, 12 December 2007 (CET)


 * It's gone... forever! Or maybe QFT rather. [[image:User_Godliest_Icon_ritualist.jpg|19px]] GΩdlﺄεﻯt -_-  21:18, 12 December 2007 (CET)


 * It was definitely there when I fixed the grammar a few days ago. Judging by the way it doesn't pop up in the history, I'd say there was an html update and the way the  tag works changed. I'll look into it. &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 22:53, 12 December 2007 (CET)


 * The  tag is bugged atm. You can still copy and paste the template from the 'View Source' page. –&thinsp;H HHIPPO  &thinsp;&lsaquo;sysop &rsaquo; 00:14, 13 December 2007 (CET)
 * Yeah, I've been doing that for a while. A lot easier with the fast-as-hell site now. --[[image:GoD Holiday Sig 2.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Moses  15:25, 20 December 2007 (EST)

Attributes and skills
i find it's rather confusing to add them, i think i require a better explanation, the "PvX template" link is pretty confusing, it just takes me back to the site i was already on, and doesnt give an explanation of what i'm to do


 * It's currently not working right. For the time being, if you click the "view source" tab at the top of the page and scroll down to the template section, you can copy and paste the code there and fill in information specific to your build. &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 21:46, 20 December 2007 (EST)

Please remove
That space after "[3rd skill] ". People just copypaste it and messes up the skill bar (in IE at least).  ĐONT * TALK  18:06, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * I got it. And thanks for pointing that out, because it's been buggin me, too :P <font color="#CD2626">&not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 18:08, 10 January 2008 (EST) I'd been wondering why there were so many with a space there...
 * There are still a few copies ([1],[2]) of that, dunno if needed to change those too..  <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  01:38, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * Hmm. Looks like when I put the template not in the  in, I accidentally copy-pasted an extra :P Fixed now. <font color="#CD2626">&not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 18:43, 11 January 2008 (EST)

plz change
the tags that it shows for trial and testing both dont work and you need to alter them once you get them it currently says <-- blah blah blah -->and when you copy paste it you need to change it to  <--blah blah blah--> like it is for stubMonk ey warrior 16:04, 13 February 2008 (EST)
 * You just need to remove the tags from the beginning and end.  The wiki code reads that as ignoring the code within the tags, so just remove them and the wiki will read it normally. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  17:23, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Clarification on initial build creation
I am rather new to this whole wiki thing, but i read the three guides on writing good builds and the such and I can't seem to find anywhere how to actually create the article that will eventual consist of my build. Once i figure out how, i am not sure where i should put it. Stubs? Trials? Trials untested? I can't seem to find clarity on this issue in this article. To a guru these answers are probably easy, but forgive my ignorance in this area. Help? --Kipp27 01:05, 23 February 2008 (EST)


 * Creating the page


 * To create a new build article in the Build namespace, you can proceed in one of two ways.
 * Edit your user page or the Sandbox to create a link to your new build article.
 * For example, if your new build is called "R/N Touch Ranger", then add the following text to the sandbox:

""
 * When you preview or save the page, you will find a red link. Click on it to start editing your build article.
 * Note: It would be appreciated if you remove the link from the sandbox after finishing.
 * Alternatively, if you are more familiar with wikis, you can go directly to the URL of your new build. The "R/N Touch Ranger" page will be at

""


 * Note that the build "R/N Touch Ranger", used as an example here, already exists!
 * To submit a new build article, you must give it a new name, following the naming conventions described above and in PvXwiki:Build Naming Policy.


 * As far as placing your build in trial versus testing, it just depends on how certain you are of the build's format. For example, if you're looking for a better way to snare your target in a warrior build, you might put it in trial and ask for comments.  If you're fairly certain that the build won't change much, you should probably put it in testing to get more attention from the community.  Be aware that people may vote the build harshly if it still has a major flaw in Testing, though.  Oh, and you only need to put it in stubs if it's lacking critical information; for example, no equipment section or no variants section when you have optional slots on your skillbar, etc.  You should be fine as long as you copy and follow the build template in PvXwiki:Style and formatting --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  04:28, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Someone messed with template...
And removed all the spaces... Can't see what I'm doing!--Relyk 22:33, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Touch ranger
It's a silly example. Someone should change it to Shock Axe, SF ele or BA ranger. That's much better.  seb2lazy2login  (ʞ1ɐʇ)  06:03, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Build Template
Just add a note saying "You can also press the Build Template button on the toolbar". -- Guild of  Deals  18:29, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

PvP builds
What do we do if we're using the PvP modified skills for our builds?  A c  e (Least Visited Page on Wiki) 17:06, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Wait for gwBBcode to update? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:10, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Build template icon
The current one doesn't look good with the others so I made this one. Any better? ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  11:07, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Looks better to me. I'll put it on for now, and if people don't complain, we'll keep it. Thanks for going to the trouble of making a better-looking one :)  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 21:21, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Idea to make variants more convient
Sometimes, it gets really annoying to keep going to GWW to look up what variant skills do so maybe putting them like this? [signet of capture] to replace [Hamstring@9] [resurrection signet@0] to replace [Fire Storm@12]

I know that we want only one bar per page, but really listing a variant like this isn't a full bar and its a bit more convenient. Or would it make the page too big? Just a simple suggestion. You would need to put 7  s between each one though, and it might be more trouble than its worth. On the other hand, it does make comparing variants simpler. <font color="#AA0088">Invincible  <font color="#AA0088">Rogue  15:59, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

You can use <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">SYSOP ''' 18:31, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow, that shows the extent of my wiki knowledge =P. Can we start doing that on varients? <font color="#AA0088">Invincible  <font color="#AA0088">Rogue [[Image:Invincible_rogue_siggy.jpg]] 18:34, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
 * The problem is that the tags insert an automatic linebreak after each skill so it cannot be commented. Furthermore, PvX currently uses the gwshack database which is not frequently updated so you can check skills easier with the gw: or gww: links. ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">SYSOP  18:43, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh. dang >.< <font color="#AA0088">Invincible  <font color="#AA0088">Rogue [[Image:Invincible_rogue_siggy.jpg]] 18:48, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

Variants section
Can we officially move it to a subsection right under the main bar? It looks better and has a more logical flow. --71.229 14:11, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Posting the build
So I make a page like the example:

""

Post it there and wait for rating?--CyberFog 16:35, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, basically. You might want to check its talkpage from time to time so you can improve the build based on others' opinions. ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">SYSOP  18:15, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

PvE skills and heros
Having builds tagged for heros, yet having PvE skills on the bar is unconventional. Builds should only be tagged for heros if the main bar reflects it, there's a reason we have variants-- Christmas Relyk  19:52, 10 December 2008 (EST)

I find this guide very confusing ):
I'm new to PvX and this guide is a bit confusing ): Mikkelet 19:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Contents Menu
What can be done in addition to the contents menu? I am making a build, but the contents menu doesn't work properly. Anyone know what I can do about it?
 * Add this tag to your build: . And please sign your comments in the future with 4 ~'s. Thanks. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:23, 22 November 2009
 * Hmm, it's already there, but doing strange things (double show/hide, contents half way through the page). I'll have a look. - <font color="CornflowerBlue">Athrun <font color="CornflowerBlue">Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 15:27, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * you had some PvXbig tags left open ( opens and closes an open one, you missed out the "/" in a couple fo instances). If a tag is left open and then you have some headings it screws the ToC up =). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  15:35, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help (the question was mine)! But how do you knew it was me if I didn't signed my post? F.c.sauer 16:01, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * i looked at the page's "history" (along the top of the page there's a tab that says history, if you click it you can see who made what edit when =p). I also saw it in Special:RecentChanges. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  16:39, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, didn't thought about it (at the bottom of the page is the same history button). Thanks for the info. F.c.sauer 16:43, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Revising/Updating
Since this hasn't been updated almost 2 years, I think it's time to bring up some common formatting going on: While probably only toraen and phen will read this and it's probably a waste of time to address, I think it's important to bring up since many users don't bother to read this or most other policies before posting builds, more than likely because it's confusing and hard to understand.-- Relyk  talk  07:06, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Optional slots: I've gone from despising to liking the use of in optionals such as on Build:A/any Dagger Spammer and this is what Toraen and many others have been using. the line "Suggest a few optionals..." is way too ambiguous. I don't prefer the use of [[image:Optional.jpg|25px]] Optional elite should be: using the optional image since it's fluff. I've always done "Optional slot(s) should be:" unless one of the optionals is an elite skill or major variants of the same core build. It's also ideal to move the tag below these optionals so people don't accidentally break pages, which has happened more since it's been used more.
 * Team builds: There's always an issue on how to list teams and hero builds. You can't use "Attributes and Skills on these pages". Heroes should never be listed under a section called heroes. There's nothing on posting player builds and whether we should just link to builds on the wiki (which should be efficient) unless it's specific like discordway.
 * Equipment: We need an example for how to write up the equipment section, since people like to bold Equipment and Armor like subsections. Just need an example of what Lemmings has done for write up in PvP section and a simplified example (usually which I do) for how to display mods and inscriptions.
 * For usage: I think a note on formatting for dungeons and elite areas that have multiple rooms needs to be added. A subsection for each area or level and a general usage before the subsections like most builds have done. It also needs something on what is needed on hero builds, since they have rather generic usages and such, this includes builds tagged for both player and hero.
 * Variants: People don't even pay attention to this anymore and put all the skills in optionals and vi to completely omit the section. It's still difficult to explain what differentiates an optional from a variant and I don't know if variants are even necessary in modern practice. I still think they're important but the confusion often comes up when merging builds when the authors argue their build is different even though it's the same core build (like VoS Smite Crawl Farmer).
 * Video: this hasn't been addressed either but a section for videos needs to be added rather than just having external link. Most articles do this and leaving it in external links is archaic.


 * There's no real reason to change this to incorporate that. That's a preference thing. Some people like the hover over, others prefer just an image+name.
 * I don't even get what you're trying to say here beyond "we should link to it on the wiki". Which depends on the situation (some builds aren't efficient unless they're in a team setup).
 * Equip is right there...have a section saying "equipment", have a little bullet-point list of Armour and weapons...can't make it any clearer really...
 * specific to those builds, but possibly.
 * you don't need this section. It's useful and if you can have it by all means you should. but it's not a mandatory section. I can't really see how a change of this guide will make a difference to this point.
 * there's an external links section, a notes section, and a usage section all of which are suitable (usage is assuming the video is showing the build in use/how to run it).
 * This is as clear as it gets and we can't dumb it down any further. If they don't read it keep pointing them to here. If they keep breaking it after that, tell an admin and they'll (probably, at least I would) block them for being ignorant despite being told time and again what to do. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian  <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:13, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I do like skill pvxicon but I don't feel that it's mandatory. Some are more comfortable just using skill icon or even just links. The only practice I'd really discourage is listing skills without any form of link.
 * I think at least a recommendation on avoiding posting specific player builds for hero teams would make sense. There's not many hero teams that require the player run a specific build (and even those that do, like discordway and racway, can be successful with alternate player builds).
 * Providing a proper formatting for mods of the weapons and armor (prefix weapon of suffix with inscription/modifier) would be helpful, and maybe mentioning that optimal equipment should be used (many people make the mistake of just listing whatever their PvE character happens to be wielding and/or list specific skins which isn't needed).
 * A more detailed usage format for these cases wouldn't hurt.
 * My personal guideline for variant vs. optional is that an optional goes in a blank spot in the mainbar while a variant is a viable replacement for a skill already there. Doesn't always work though (WotA replaces Critical Eye on the dagger spammer but it should be listed alongside the other elite skills).
 * I don't really care whether people put videos in an external links or videos section and won't be going to every build to make it one or the other. Although, it is nice to have external links point to things like guru threads and have videos in a separate section for organization. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 01:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's the start of a rewrite. I threw in some things that I thought should be mentioned. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 06:40, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * @phen
 * that's kind of the point of a guideline so people don't keep changes the optionals to their own preferences. I really don't like people using [[Restful Breeze@14] format because it doesn't link to guildwarswiki. Also people will sometimes not type "Optional should be:" or similar if it's a single list of optionals but it becomes necessary for 2 or more sets of optionals, which isn't clarified. Or they will add it as it's own section. Ultimately, there needs to be a section on optional skills added.
 * People have either just wrote a few sentences, posted a bunch of templates, listed mini skill bars, link to vetted builds, or put up a single bar like discordway.
 * A lot of the time, people misinterpret the bullets as not a simple bullet list, such as:
 * * Equipment
 * :* asdsdd
 * :* asdsad
 * * Armor
 * :*asdasds
 * :*asdasdd
 * or divide each into subsections, which isn't really clarified. @toraen, I don't think the actual format of equipment is important as long as people understand what mods they need.
 * The main point is differentiating it from the optional section, people sometimes confuse core optional skills with skills that could be considered variants. Also, using the pvxbig tag here can break the page again or if they close the tag at this section. I tend to shy away from using icons here because it's more distracting than useful, but that's just for aesthetics. It should at least follow the aforementioned formatting of optionals when listed.
 * embedded videos hog the external links section if added there and makes it hard to find links quickly. It's more conventional and aesthetically pleasing to have it's own section.
 * I can tell you quite confidently it's vague on a few points. Most players ignore editing the builds they post after the first week, so telling them to follow formatting is pointless. you can't expect them to care if they're doing it right, which most must be under the impression they are.-- Relyk  talk  21:52, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * no, a guideline is exactly that, a guideline. It's not set in stone, there's no one right way to do things. As long as it follows the basic set-up, it doesn't matter.
 * I still have absolutely no idea what you're on about with this point.
 * I don't see an issue with that....again, subsections is fine, see point #1.
 * see my original point: changing this guide won't do anything. People are already supposed to be doing that per this guide, so what an earth could we change?
 * hmm we could add a section for videos, but I'm not keen on the idea...
 * by that logic what difference does making these changes make exactly? Again, refer to my original post: If they're doing it consistently wrong (and that's "they're leaving out half the sections that need to be there and blah blah blah" instead of "he's doing it a different way to what I prefer to do it!"), and have been told, tell me or another Admin and we'll ban them. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian  <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:11, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * In regards to point #2, I believe that he's saying people will often clog hero team articles with unnecessary player builds. He wants a guideline so that new users can get an idea of when player builds should be included. Also, while this guideline isn't an enforceable policy, it would help new users linked to it if it's clarified a bit (like mentioning the difference between optionals/variants). -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 22:36, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Just because it's not set in stone doesn't mean the article can be sloppy if all the sufficient information is there. The guidelines are there so the articles remain concise and easy to read, the points I'm bringing up are things that, in my opinion, constantly bring down the quality of the article. I'm saying the guidelines aren't clear to users on what the build articles should look like, I wasn't talking about users who consistently break guidelines (which isn't an issue in the first place).-- Relyk  talk  23:39, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Make Zyke happy and put ToC Right in the template for builds.-- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  16:10, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It would go in the build template button, but technical limitations prevent it. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 11:40, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:Hero Mode
Would this be useful to mention along the lines of "For hero usage sections, be sure to mention which combat mode to use, using the Hero Mode template." ?  <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  23:19, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the general consensus is "Guard" unless specified otherwise. I see no reason to make it standard to say that on any hero build. 90.221.119.15 23:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Almost mistook phen for troll. Ok thats fine. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  00:09, 8 December 2011 (UTC)