Archive talk:D/A Dark Silence Runner

Cleanup

 * Luobailong please do not remove variants without testing them first. Two skills have been switched out that make the build much easier to manage with less casting. It also negates conditions to the point that the build is fantastic from Copper to Iron without needing to switch to D/Mo Dwayna's runner or adding additional condition removal. If I am not mistaken you get 70% faster condition expiry with Featherfoot running.

This build needs a huge cleanup: there are still pre-nerf variants in it, formatting issues, and questionable usage of runes (Major and Superior attribute runes are not needed at all). Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  01:00, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Clean-up done. What has changed:
 * More useful addition of Vital Boon to the build as Faithful would get stripped sooner or later. Boon guarantees a more carefree running, and likes getting stripped for a HP bonus.
 * I have to disagree that Vital Boon makes for more carefree running. Vital Boon requires recasting which therefore adds to the complexity of the run. I am running with a variant using Featherfoot Grace, Enchanted Haste and Faithful Intervention and it is nearly flawless and has condition mitigation making it simple to use from Copperhammer to Iron Mines. Due to lack of Teleportation it may be a bit slower. I haven't checked timing. --Fecal_Storm 3 Aug 2007
 * Corrected attribute points, and rune usage: no need for Superior or Major runes.
 * Added guide, hints, and notes to everything regarding this run with this build. [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  01:00, 16 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Reverted anon's edit. --NYC Elite 07:27, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

There is an inaccurate note on Vow of Silence that states you can keep it active indefinetely. Even with a duration of 8 +20% (9.6 rounded up to 10 total seconds), it is impossible to maintain Vow of Silence due to the limitation of not being able to cast it while it is active.


 * I think for the description of this run it would rather be confusing when stating hard facts, because it is almost indefinitely. No matter how long VoS lasts there is always this recast time with this gap. — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  15:02, 3 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Thankfully though, due to enemy spells' activation times, nothing can get through while it's down... --Talonz 13:56, 22 June 2007 (EDT)


 * This is not 100% true. I have been hexed while casting. --Fecal_Storm 3 Aug 2007
 * Heretics with their fast-casting can get through. — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  15:02, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

I want this part removed: "Attention: Grawl Crones can strip Vow of Silence with Chilblains. When they strip, then they're always stripping two enchantments. If you want to get stripped by them run near them with Vital Boon up to get a decent health boost." Chillblains is a target spell now, not a PBAoE skill. --Arthas 18:24, 13 November 2007 (CET)

New Skills
Are there any of the new Luxon/Kurzick and Sunspear skills that could be incorporated well into this build? I hear of people using a form such as Balthazar's Avatar and keeping it up endlessly with Mystic Aura. --Talonz 20:21, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
 * None of the new skills are useful for this build here. Some people use Endless Aura to regen Avatars instantly. But even that is pretty unimportant running-wise. [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  20:33, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Alright, thanks. I was wondering because one could theoretically use Avatar of Balthazar and Mystic Aura to keep up a speed and armor boost indefinitely, but then they would need something to counter hexes and what-not that was lost due to VoS being an elite. Not sure if two skill slots could do that easily. --Talonz 08:24, 23 June 2007 (EDT)

Checked and Reviewed
For Viability. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 13:13, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

Ice Golem Path
Is it possible to add some more detailing how to get through the Ice Golem Path with this build, using the standard one teleport? I've found it's the most difficult part of the run for me, and yet there's only three lines on it. --Talonz 19:50, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * It's always problematic to describe the many spawns that can happen at the end of Lornar's Pass, as the build's article itself was already getting too lengthy. It's practically always the same: run the way with less resistance. Meaning prefer Grawls if you can, if not, Boon, and Myst yourself, and teleport to a far away Golem, and cast VoS. May add a Lornar's Pass video later. [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  20:26, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

Small change
You can save those attribute points that you put in wind prayers by using pious haste. Pious haste takes some getting used to but once you have it figured out it works to your advantage and you can use it to end fleeting stability without the knockdown. If pious is about to strip an essential skill like fleeting then cast VoS and let pious strip that, it only costs 5nrg to cast it and you get 4nrg back.

I have also elected to use Kephkets Refuge as my running staff, mainly because I already had one, It gives the user +15 energy along with 20% ench and 20% half recharge.


 * Shield is better imo b/c you gain 8 AL (small but helpful), extra health, and damage redux. 20% half recharge isn't really needed, 20% enchant duration can be on a one-handed weapon, and an extra 10 energy isn't needed b/c of Mysticism. --NYC Elite 02:48, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Dual Warp Insignias
When using the Superior Teleporting version of this build, are radiant insignias suggested for their extra energy over stalwart insignias? --Talonz 08:00, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes. Definitely go for energy when using the extended teleport variant of the build. — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  11:59, 1 August 2007 (CEST)

Enchanted Haste Variant
It is not necessary to open up a new section of the build only for the sake of one modified skill (which is Featherfoot Grace) having no real impact on the build or the routes in Tyria. The addition of Enchanted Haste is pretty senseless as it misses all the advantages of Harrier's Haste. Care to elaborate? — Luobailong    ···talk     ···builds  21:03, 3 August 2007 (CEST)


 * I absolutely do care to elaborate. First of all it's not really enchanted haste that makes the difference so perhaps I chose the wrong name and you can't get past it. The thing that separates the build is replacing Vital Boon with Faithful which negates the need to cast, is always buried under all your other enchants and adds extra regen to Mystic and the addition of Featherfoot grace which serves as a speed boost as well as a condition mitigation spell. This build is hands down better than the original whether or not that hurts anyone's feelings. Also, for the record, it isn't my build, I didn't come up with it and I don't lay claim to it. However, I have been running since prophecies with warrior, monk and ranger and most recently with derv and this is by far the simplest and most effective running build I have ever seen.


 * First of all: it's not about anyone's feelings - it's about the efficiency of builds. Enchanted Haste makes you dependent on an always-up Enchantment. Whereas Faithful is a nice Ench itself, it is not really that great for Droknar's, the route where Enchantment-stripping happens en-masse. Once you are Ench-naked, you're Enchanted Haste is pretty useless, and your Faithful won't have healed you then at all. So in which way is it better than the "original"? Above that, the named skill additions/replacement are named in the variants section already. There is no use to create an extra "chapter" at the article's page. Featherfoot Grace is not really needed in Tyria for most runs - there are much better options out there (such as Rune of Rest, and an Anti-Cripple Shield) or simply another second prof if conditions really do play a major role in the run. Vital Boon is in the build to GET stripped, in order to get healed by a massive amount of HP. — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  21:45, 3 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Obviously you aren't listening. The build is EASIER to use. Also, last I checked you are running Vow of Silence. Why exactly would your enchants be getting stripped? The only time I have had a single issue with enchant stripping while running Vow was with Jade Scarabs casting chillblains while I activate teleporters in the desert. So while I will agree a whole new build section isn't necessary I don't agree that the variants section does anything justice by highlighting the alternatives. The variant I posted is flat-out easier to use, requires less casting and is almost 100% effective. It's obvious that you won't go try it, you are judging it by reading it. So I'll tell you what, if you want to run a test side by side and show me I am wrong let me know and we can meet up in game. If I am wrong maybe I will learn a few things. Otherwise you might find yourself impressed by the ease of the build. By the way, one of the fantastic things about this build is that with Featherfoot and Enchanted Haste you rarely have to dip into Dark Escape and can reserve it for times when mystic might expire or other troubling times. Try the build, then judge it.


 * Your variant does not bring any advantages over the original build posted here. Where do you run? Jade Scarabs? I am not talking about some low-level runs in the Desert, which any naked level 13 profession could run/walk. I dont like be falsely accused of being biased towards any build or variant. I take everything into consideration if it works. As this build's page is primary written for the Forge run, you will have to agree that using an Enchantment-runner relying on e.g. a Running Ench. puts you at a good disadvantages, as you also have to stop in order to cast it (see -> Grawl Crones, etc.). Then adding Enchanted Haste to it which puts this build even more off-balance due to its requirements. Using no tele-spell as secondary Dervish would be a waste, performance-wise, and anti-stuck-wise. Your variant requires less casting? You need to recast Featherfoot every time. Boon isn't meant for getting recast. You buffer it (or use it as cover) before encountering massive damage, or strippers. While many variants work, it is our target to choose the best variant (most efficient), publish it, and write it down. Minor variants of it, which are based on the same principle, will be kept traced of in the variants section. I see no problem there. The only thing I do since the beta of GW is running (and that only), so please spare me the comments of that I do not know what I talk about, or that I am biased towards skills/builds, etc. I'll simply take what works best, but your "build" only shows disadvantages. — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong    ···talk     ···builds  14:33, 4 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Once again you show the attention and tact of a 3 year old. For starters, let's talk about your comment on desert runs. Are they easy? Yes absolutely. But when you rely on VoS and you have 10 scarabs surrounding you at a teleporter casting chillblains good luck. So before you comment use some common sense if you are supposed to be such a "Big bad runner" or however you like to fashion yourself.You clearly are biased and unwilling to experiment but at least I can rest assured knowing that I have taught several people to run forge and other shiverpeaks areas EASILY who were having a hard time mastering this build posted here. So enjoy your time up there in the ivory tower Mr. Super Cool Guild Wars Runner Guy. You have earned it. -Fecal


 * Your immature personal attacks against me won't make "your" "build" better. ^.^ If you still have problems with Scarabs simply try to "run". :D — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  15:54, 10 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Hi, Im pretty new to running, but I have used this build wih some slight variations for running to Sanctum Cay or any run easier than Droks. The changes I have made make it a lot simpler to use. First, I substituted VoS for Avatar of Balthazar simply because I made the run several times wthout needing to use VoS once. I realized that AVatar of Balth gives me a constant run, and it adds armor. I also substitued fleeting stability for Faathful Intervention because there aren't many enemies that have knockdown skills in Kryta. Also, faithful intervention along with vital boon and mystic generation gives me +9 health regeneration for 20 seconds or more, more than enough to get me through a large froup of enemies. Again, Im really new to running so I would appreciate ur comments/ critisicm

Thanks, Sgt Pepperz


 * See Archive:D/Mo Balthazar's Forge Runner. It is nice to hear that you began running. For low-level runs every build with self-heal, and a running skill works. Therefore, there are not listed here. — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  19:17, 5 August 2007 (CEST)

Attribute Distribution
First off, I would like to say that I love this build and that it works wonderfully. I started running Drok's yesterday and was able to successfully complete the run on the second try, this build is so good. However, I tweaked the attribute setup a little bit because of different cutoff points. The extra point in Mysticism seems unnecessary, as it does not increase the length on Vow of Silence, the only Mysticism skill on the bar. My approach was to use a hood that increases Earth Prayers instead of Mysticism, giving better bonuses on Vital Boon and lengthening Fleeting Stability while still maintaining the three energy regained from Mysticism. Similarly, two extra points are used in Wind Prayers to add a second to the duration of Harrier's Haste. This seemed superfluous to me, so I took the two points off of Wind Prayers and added them on to Earth Prayers, giving me a build that looked like this:

[build prof=D/A sha=10 win=6+1 earthp=10+1+1 mys=8+1][Harrier's Haste][Dark Escape][Dash][Vow of Silence][Mystic Regeneration][Vital Boon][Fleeting Stability][Death's Charge][/build]

So really I just eliminated some unnecessary points from Mysticism and Wind Prayers to yield better bonuses from Vital Boon and longer duration on Fleeting Stability, while maintaining the running combo that you can keep up almost all of the time. - Cyrus Stark


 * The problem is that the gap between the running stances is even higher now that you have shortened the duration of Harrier's by 1 second. I'd rather prefer a more complete running sequence than some 10 more HP on Vital Boon, or 1 more second of Fleeting Stability. — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  16:46, 15 August 2007 (CEST)


 * True, that is a good point. I think what I was trying to do is get Earth Prayers high enough so that Mystic Regeneration would give +4 pips (13 Earth Prayers) over +3 (11 Earth Prayers). Then with only Mystic Regen and another enchant (depending on the situation), you'd have 8 pips of regen. So this variation might be more viable in areas where Vow of Silence can be stripped (Chillblains, etc.) and Degen or DPS is high. I'll admit, it's not a very strong argument against the original build. I posted mostly to see if there was merit in the methods I was using. - Cyrus Stark


 * I just tried running with 10 Wind, 11 Earth, and 9 Myst, and there's no down time at all for the stances. I think the best variation is to just switch the extra point from Myst into Wind. - Cyrus Stark


 * Taking one point from Mysticism and putting it into Earth prayers is the best, putting it in wind prayers doesn't increase the duration at all.

Whould this shield work?
whould this shield work? plz tell me--Xilarth The Wise 05:52, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes, of course. I would get the max armor version, though (outside Camp Rankor). — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  21:02, 1 October 2007 (CEST)

infusion run
can this do the infusion run--Lucky121 (talk *pvxcontribs ) 22:07, 31 October 2007 (CET)


 * Nothing easier than that ... — [[Image:Ranger-icon.png|50x19px]] Luobailong   ···talk     ···builds  10:32, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

ok thx and i forgot to sign it so i just put a sig--Lucky121 (talk *pvxcontribs ) 22:07, 31 October 2007 (CET)

racing build
should we add a section on a varation for racing droks?

Using Enchanted Haste and Faithful Intervention
Personally, i use these two skills, and always have. I am very expoerienced runner to droks (haven't tried HM so not pro yet) and have never had faithful stripped. Due to the recent nerf of chibilians, just put up mystic and VOS and just run past the grawls. I'll gladly show anyone how to use this build the way i do. I'm not saying this build is innificent at all, just pointing out i like my method better. Riff 03:55, 15 November 2007 (CET)


 * Enchanted Haste is really good since it was buffed to permboost at 10 Wind, but does carry the risk of losing all speed boost if you somehow lose your enchants; health drop below the FI mark or enchantment stripping (due to lag on VOS maybe). At least with these three you can run no matter what and you get the DMG reduction from DA. --Heurist 21:57, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

Sentry Insignia
What about Sentry Insignia? Provides u with 10 armor as long as u are in stance, which is almost 100% of the time. Ashes (lazy login)

Maps
maybe someone could post the maps showing the way to go, and labling worm tunnel, big agro patches, etc.etc.etc. you know, for the newer runners, not that im one of them....:P

Different runs?
Where else could this build possibly run with ease? Dances With Pets 17:22, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

Any easy runs like Ascalon to Lions Arch and stuff.

Insignias
Shouldn't Windwalker Insignias be used, since you are almost always under the effects of at least 2 enchantments, of which would be against damage other than physical, just in case?

Sentry insignia would be better as well.

Other Places To run?
can this build be used to run the grotto run or the black cadital run?

Was this nerfed?

 * I cant keep up VoS (2.25 sec downtime) so I always get Deep Freezed, and Mystic Regen(even at +10 regen) and Dark escape together still is no where near enough to keep me alive through the mobs of avicaria necros and rangers
 * Sure you have an enchanting weapon?--[[Image:Altruismliger.jpg|19px]] Liger414  talk  03:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

headline
Merge the D/A running builds imo. -- -Ch ao  s-   13:28, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * /agree.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:24, 9 April 2009 (UTC)