Archive talk:A/E Perma Daggers Farmer/archive

Current Talk

People keep asking me in game for this build and how to use it. I Usually do Chest Runs and farm beach, war fields and infernal worms and abysals with it. I also solo farm chaos fields in UW, but not many people know that and you have to be elite to use it in that style, meaning you have to have a full understanding of how the build works and the timings and the counters/ etc. It will take a few runs to learn safe spots on the runs for the chaos fields, but after you get it down, the money is endless. At a min of 3-5 ectos and a max of 7-11 ectos a run in about an hour-hour and a half, this build is above all others i believe. It just takes time and practice to learn it. Good luck guys! and with no furthur adu, and after a few months of messing around alone with it, Ive opened it to the public. Have fun and go wild! (original creator) Tartreg 00:05, 19 March 2008 (EDT) (Shadowdemon Ricerom)
 * I suggest you take Golden Fox Strike over Jagged Strike, it shouldn't really change much, but I prefer additional damage over bleeding. Also, you could bring dagger mastery down from 12 to 10, and put 8 into Critical Strike, to gain more energy on critical hits. -Mike 17:15, 25 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Sounds good, have you tested it? Tartreg 17:18, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Not yet, I haven't really been into all the FoW/UW farming, but I can try it somewhere else. Plus, I'm not the greatest with timing Shadow Form. XD -Mike 17:22, 25 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Well you have my in game name, if you need lessons, i give them. Better if you have vent that i can talk you through it on! Tartreg 17:38, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

Who needs vent or lessons to perma sf? Its easy.70.243.73.185 18:50, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

It is Chaos Planes, not Chaos Fields. Also, how long does a clear of the Chaos Planes take? With my elementalist build, it takes just under 90 minutes. Scarn 20:27, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
 * It's actually Chaos PLAINS not planes...Bluerask 19:23, 11 April 2008 (EDT)


 * For Planes and Pits, it also takes about 60-90 minutes, depending on how fast you are or how good you get.Tartreg 00:26, 26 March 2008 (EDT)


 * It takes me like 45-55 minutes to solo the plains. Very easy after the run and quick ectos =D --Vgfanatic2 11:46, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

So this can do FoW as well? Essence of Celerity is a must? Natsopaani 09:24, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * essence is not a must in Fow, only in UW. Tartreg 19:24, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Why not replace Golden Fox Strike/Jagged Strike with Golden Phoenix Strike and add Shadow Refuge for healing? i think that the disadvantage of this build is that it has no healing in case dmg goes through Shadow Form.
 * This build is not meant to heal. It is a damage build. If any damage will go through SF, then you shouldn't farm it with this build or you should stay away from it. The reason for not switching is because you want the max damage asap with spammable skills. This build is constant attacks. If you always waste your attack on deep wound, then you actually lose damage. The bleeding make flesh enemies die faster the golden fox strike makes non fleshy creatures die faster. But its all about the spammability of the attacks. You can put in refuge for jagged and dash for wild if you want to practice and get the hang of it, but you will kill much slower. This build can clear the cave in 15 minutes or less in FoW when used correctly. Tartreg 19:24, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

sorry i meant Golden Fox Strike/Jagged Strike - Wild Strike

Wow, I thought I was going to be the one to patent this build. I personally use the base of the PermaShadow build, the energy-regaining dagger attacks, Death Blossom, and then leave two optional slots. Consider skills like Heart of Shadow, Way of the Fox, and Shadow Refuge. This is also a PERFECT build to take on the Bison Tournament with...especially M. Bison himself. 152.3.178.76 23:23, 26 March 2008 (EDT) Chiyonosake

Do you run to the Chaos Plains just by permaSFing your way there? - Knux 02:29, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
 * For the most part yes, but the main problem is the nature renewal spirits in the mountains. They double your cast time, making it impossible to keep SF up more than twice. There are two safe spots, one with renewal still on and one without. Before I get to those though, your other problem is the charged blacknesses. They are air spike elementals, and if they get too close, they will knock you down with a touch and in the end you will die. The good thing about them is that they are slow, so with essence of celerity you should have no problem dodging them. Now, the safe spots are at the very top of the first hill, right before your aggro circle hits the charged blacknesses, and the second is at the bottom of that next valley where you dont have renewal on you. I will post screenshots of a typical run soon. Tartreg 17:20, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

I used to use it and it works, just kill the spirits around you, then cast the enchants. Extreme (contribs) 22:36, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

If you hurry fast enough through the mountains, you can beat the Charged Blacknesses to their station infront of the Chaos Planes.Scarn 21:49, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Ive used it (i used critical agility Golden Phoenix strike instead of the 2 first lead attacks) and it works good. Edit: forgot to sign Dumazz 16:23, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

dash and energy
i rly like the build though i have been trying a version that uses golden phoenix strike and dash instead of golden fox and wild strike, i havent gotten far enough into uw to rly test this but i think u should be able to use it like that without an essence of celerity. besides that it also makes the energy a bit easyer as i find myself with too litle energy to do my sf chain quite often with the version of this page. Thempest 12:56, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Jebus those pics took up a ton of space, maybe make them smaller or start another page and add a link those pictures are way to big though. Extreme (contribs) 12:29, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

the run to the planes
could u tell me about how high ur succeed chance is for the run there, cous i have been trying this for a while now and i keep running in to behemoth spawns completely blocking the way and then getting killed by their traps as im stuck in their body block wall. Thempest 10:39, 2 April 2008 (EDT)


 * sometimes that happens. I cant say you will succeed every time. I personally have been testing a build that is slower but doesnt require an essence. It has Dash and shadow of refuge. that at least negates the degen of the traps should you have to run into them. It is slower on the kills because the only attack skills are the golden lotus and the lotus strike and death blossom. But so far it has done pretty well. good for UW and to learn to use the build. The version on the actual page is good for fow and other things. Tartreg 02:37, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I applaud your effort for making an SF build with daggers
I applaud you effort for making an SF build with daggers.nice job.Jtfire55 17:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Video?
Is it possible for you to make a video of this? A Little guide for us (or just me) who fails to run there. :P Natsopaani 00:58, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Id personally love a video of just the build because i cant seem to time it ryt:( max iv been able to keep it up for is 1-2mins after that for some reason the echoed 1 seems to last longer than the 20 seconds its meant to so it mucks it up

Idea!
Kk, I got the idea. I'm lf a Sin that can use the build, but wich wanna train to run to chaos planes etc. I would make a guide about and, and perhaps a vid if liked x) Let me know anything on my Talk page! Greets R0x0rDead 04:25, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

I've been using a little different build in FoW atm with Dash and Golden Phoenix Strike instead of Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike. Natsopaani 13:56, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I also typically use Golden Phoenix Strike - the open slot for a utility skill is better. However, if you're going to stick with Golden Fox Strike, I'd use Golden Fang Strike instead of Wild Strike. 71.98.84.249 14:04, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Rename the build!
Why is it called the Chaos Fields Farmer if there is no usage on how to? Why no just rename it as the Perma Shadow Dagger Farmer? That would be a lot more neccesary than the current one. TedTheFarmer 16:30, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

A video would really be nice :D Natsopaani 09:45, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Is EotN skill really necsessary?
Hi i would like to know if the EotN skill Lotus Strike really neccesary is because I do not have EotN if their is can u pls post one in the variant box or here .Thx! :D RangerManger555 13:04, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, if you invest 13 into Critical Strikes, you could try Critical Eye or Critical Strike. I don't think there's much else that would work for energy management, though. -Mike 16:58, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
 * For this style build, yes, EoTN is required. Because this is meant to just attack and still have energy. If you do do the critical strikes, then you are making an entire different build. Tartreg 18:34, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

ummmmmmm the Glyph of Swiftness is EotN isnt it?

Destroyer Farming
Since they nerfed destroyer degen farming would this build be able to solo it? I know it would be slow but its better than not farming them at all. Death blossom would own their mobs xD.Bluerask 19:29, 11 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I have gone into the passage to the EOTN with this build and soloed the entire first group of destroyers with this build. And had a good amount of time left. No drops, but it is possible to solo destroyers with this build. Just make sure they dont have a counter before you go to farm them. Tartreg 06:02, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Please a video
i cant seem to even find where the hell do i go T_T a video will make things MUCH easier Adamezra 22:14, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Done ^^ R0x0rDead 13:40, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Birthday Cupcake
Can we use Birthday Cupcakes instead of essence of celerity's? Dumazz 11:15, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
 * as long as the cakes give speed boost, then yes.Tartreg 06:04, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

I can't seem to get past the first 3 trapping obsidian behemoths, the traps always kill me. Am I just going the wrong way? Natsopaani 09:12, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
 * your going the right way, you just have to stay to the far side on the opposite side of them. if they are covering the entryway, then you cant get past them.Tartreg 02:19, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Cleanup
I cleaned it up some and removed the tag. great build.--Reason.decrystallized 07:59, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
 * thx a bunch. i aprreciate it!Tartreg 02:20, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

DO I HEAR BUFF?!!!
Shadow Form can last 38 seconds now, so I'm not sure whether that means you can use Glyph of Renewal+Deadly Paradox or just Arcane Echo, and the latter is best due to less disable on your attack skills. =P -Mike 21:38, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * you still have to use deadly paradox, and either arcane echo or glyph of swiftness. BUT you can do it at only 12 shadow mastery--or, if you're like me, 14 for a little more safety.  leaving us with this bar, which i have confirmed to work:

[build prof=A/E name=Shadow Management dag=11+3 sha=10+1+3 crit=10+3][Glyph of Swiftness][Deadly Paradox@0][Shadow Form][Golden fox strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Critical Eye][Critical Agility][/build]

it iz roxxorz.--Reason.decrystallized 22:40, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Vote for that one^^--[[Image:Relyk Purifying Veil Sig.jpg|21px]]R ELYK   (Talk  |  Edits)  03:21, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * 20+38=58 DAMNIT! I think Shadow Form would last for 58 seconds with Arcane Echo, then it would go out for 3-5 seconds. That would have been so nice if your attack skills didn't get disabled... >.> -Mike 07:15, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * you can do it with arcane echo and essence of celerity. or with glyph of swiftness and essence of celerity.  but you either have to use a consumable or else deadly paradox.  could also work with quickening zephyr and no other skills, which might lead to an interesting team build ...--Reason.decrystallized 11:38, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

we should definitely change to that build. here is why: (sorry forgot to sign. note my jaunty bow.)--Reason.decrystallized 19:00, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes please, and it looks so much easier to time, since you have liekz 5 or 6 seconds to reapply Shadow Form. Plus, your energy will be gud with Critical Eye+Critical Agility. So easy that I could even do it. =P -Mike 22:36, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * yeah, both the energy and the timing are far easier to manage ... the old version required 40 energy all at once--this way, you pre-cast glyph, regen through auto attacking, and then spend 25 energy at once. much, much easier, especially when fighting grasps and their %$*#-ing "Fear me!" spam.  also, the timing on the old one was about 1.5 seconds to spare on the whole cycle--with these attributes, you have about 4-5 seconds of grace-time.  also, you can use a 15^50 or "when enchanted" weapon rather than the +5 energy.  even the damage is higher, really, because you can spam more without worrying about energy (due to increased crit strikes, IAS + critical eye and decreased energy cost to maintain shadow form) and your dagger attribute is higher.  i'll probably update it tomorrow if no one objects.--Reason.decrystallized 23:00, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Isn't +15% mods on daggers like... only 3-4 more damage? 201.174.210.211 20:48, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, but what else are you going to use there? --71.208.123.22 20:50, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I've been using +20% while under 50% actually. You use SF once before you go in and let it expire naturally then you agro and perma-maintain it, you end up below 50% for the entire time if you do it right.--Goldenstar 20:53, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

How long would it take to solo ToPK?Mason717 23:03, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * couple hours, less if you used an essence of celerity and dropped DP.--Reason.decrystallized 07:04, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

BTW YOU MESSED UP MY BUILD!!! it was not supposed to be a critical strike build. That is a build in its own. This build was originally all dagger master and used the ability to AOE SPAM. the way you changed it massed up my build entirely. Please change it back. to this: Tartreg 05:34, 2 June 2008 (EDT) [build prof=A/E name=Shadow Management dag=12+3 sha=12+1+3 crit=3+3][Glyph of Swiftness][Deadly Paradox@0][Shadow Form][Golden fox strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Golden lotus strike][lotus strike][/build]
 * It's easier to maintain SF now because you've got constant flowing energy, and you attack faster. You would use Golden Fox Strike->Wild Strike->Death Blossom more often because SF lasts longer, and those Lotus attack skills would start to go to waste. You can rearrange the attributes, if you like, but it would be best to keep 13 in Critical Strikes. Usually, you can cast Deadly Paradox a little early, and auto-attack for a couple seconds to regain energy for Shadow Form. Plus, Critical Agility and Critical Eye means more energy management, and a faster run (because of the IAS). So, since the buff, the Lotus skills became less effective for energy. -Mike 07:17, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
 * but the build as-is gets moar damage than that, and moar energy to boot.--Reason.decrystallized 08:35, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
 * you guys still just dont get it but its ok. no problem. better for me i guess. Tartreg 07:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * No, they get it, this one is just superior :) Azula talk  15:06, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Critical Eye and Agility combined give more energy. the faster attacking makes for more damage (especially when bonded fw00t) and more energy gain from both zealous and crits, and having that kind of epic energy lets you use death blossom more, so even more damage.  the gain energy skills were for spiking yourself back to full before recasting, and to compensate for BS such as the grasps of insanity's "fear me!", right?  well, take a staff and problem solved.  it was a great build, it really was, but now that you don't have to have 12+1+3 Shadow Arts, you can raise crit strikes and do it better.  imo of course.--Reason.decrystallized 15:23, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

glyph of swiftness > echo
amirite?  Antiarchangel  TROLL  00:29, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * yes (in my opinion), you use less energy, and gives more cast time for SF. --Trev 17:28, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Only chaos fields?
Shouldn't the name be changed because it can farm practically anything, not just the chaos fields? &not; Klump eet  15:52 {GMT} 24-05-MMVIII
 * Practically Everything Farmer. >.>
 * How about SF Dagger Farmer? -Mike 11:57, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Sounds good. &not; Klump eet  15:58 {GMT} 24-05-MMVIII
 * /agree.--Reason.decrystallized 12:16, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * then make a section on the main page of proven farm locations ... chaos fields, bone pits, TotPK, certain mobs in ravenheart gloom (nm only) ... i mean, keep the current note about: will farm anything that doesn't break sf or outheal you, but then have a section of known/suggested, etc.--Reason.decrystallized 12:19, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Okay, all done.--Reason.decrystallized 13:00, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

:]
How much build will be maked with that perma ?? xD
 * There's probably more than 6 other perma-Shadow Form builds here, already. lol -Mike 15:26, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Chaos Plains and Bone Pits
I don't have much experience with UW, and was wondering if someone could post a guide of the run for it. Plz/thx. Kamer (Talk|Contributions) 16:25, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

A little issue...
On the main screen it says to practice this build without the zelous daggers equiped...

But without them, I cannot get shadow form to reload quick enough, causing a whole lot of confusion.

Perhaps we should make it clearer.
 * Do you have an Enchanting Mod on your Daggers? -Mike 18:47, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
 * it only works with an enchanting mod. the note about practicing was actually left over from the old build, when you wouldn't regenerate enough energy to do it if you had a zealous weapon up.  so--you have to use a weapon with an enchanting mod at all times.  but if you're practicing, don't use a zealous weapon because your energy will be tight.  although any more it really doesn't matter.--Reason.decrystallized 19:00, 25 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Haha I practiced weaponless. I am slow that way.  xD  I understood before I commented here, but I just wanted to put up a warning for slow people like me.

Too lazy
to make this build before some1 else--R ELYK   (Talk  |  Edits)  22:39, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

team
okay, if you take a second guy with QZ, it opens up some interesting possibilities: [build prof=A/any name=Shadow Management dag=10+3 sha=11+1+3 crit=10+3][Shadow Form][Golden fox strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Critical Strike][Way of Perfection][Critical Eye][Critical Agility][/build] and your little hero helper can throw a bond on you--succor or life bond or some such--and still have the energy to maintain QZ. the damage is ungodly (you use the chain every two seconds, with no downtime due to DP), there are no energy problems (for one thing you don't have the massive energy sink which is DP, for another critical strike recharges in three seconds). now, i admit to not having all the kinks worked out of it yet, but initial results are promising: --Reason.decrystallized 06:58, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * /age pls --71.229.204.25 07:00, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * why /age? also: when i edit and hit "show preview", the picture shows up just fine, but then when i save changes on the page, it just gives a link to an "upload picture" wtf?--Reason.decrystallized 07:05, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * okay now it works, nvm.--Reason.decrystallized 07:05, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You won't usually need Way of Perfection, unless doing some specific areas, of course. Also, I'm not sure about taking an ally with you, because won't they split the drops? -Mike 07:07, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Aatxes, heart tormentors, earth tormentors, shadow army monks. that was the idea, at any rate.  also: two man is better than solo if you can kill more profitable mobs, or kill mobs more than twice as fast as with a solo build.  with the recharge from QZ, every single hit can be an attack skill, meaning you kill more than twice as fast.  so, while this is more bother, it could (theoretically) get you more plats per hour than solo.--Reason.decrystallized 07:13, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Herd energy owns. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  06:32, 3 June 2008 (EDT)


 * So we can see how long it took. --71.229.204.25 07:15, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * ah, okay. i've no idea, actually.  i seem to remember killing both before i had to refresh SF,  but i might be wrong.--Reason.decrystallized 07:18, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Nice. Have you tried the smites yet? --71.229.204.25 07:20, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't think it will work ... their SoJ has the tendency to sting a little. you might get around it by rapidly switching targets until you found one without, or by letting it expire.  but if they have QZ, then it will recharge faster :(.  so, ironically, if this works, it will be able to farm almost all of the UW except for the easy part.  still have to test with various variants in FoW and gloom.--Reason.decrystallized 07:27, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Rending Touch and careful re-application of Succor? --71.229.204.25 07:32, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

(resetting indent) protective bond and blessed signet ... QZ cuts the recharge on signet for 3 energy every 7 seconds, and the silly ripostes will only hit for 12 dmg ... LOL!!!! energy might get bad on the hero ... but in gloom and FoW you have lotsa small hits from ZF, so somethign else there, have to test ... --Reason.decrystallized 09:42, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

okay, i think i got the kinks worked out ... not saying it's perfect, but definitely functional. still trying to work QZ in someplace, but the problem is that you have to micromanage or the AI won't maintain it. still, in city it doesn't matter a whole lot, as the mobs have it, too. the hero should be this:

[build prof=Mo/Me HealingPrayers=10+3 ProtectionPrayers=9+1+3 SmitingPrayers=8+3 DivineFavor=4+3 InspirationMagic=8][Watchful Spirit][Mending][Protective Bond][Strength of Honor][Blessed Signet][Ether Signet][Mantra of Inscriptions][Rebirth][/build]

perhaps not perfect yet, but there have been certain successes: do you think it should go as a variant of this build, or as a separate team build?--Reason.decrystallized 18:41, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * that was without cons, btw. WITH cons, you could raise Shadow Arts 1, drop DP for ... something, maybe twisting fangs to help on monks, and go much, much faster.  also, it took me about half an hour to figure out how to beat the last big group with the three bosses, so that slowed me down, too.--Reason.decrystallized 18:51, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * protective bond + shadow form = new DoA tank, except for the part with chilblains.--Reason.decrystallized 18:52, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Thats really impressing tbh. Good work, will deinitely try it with me+other account. --Arthas 18:53, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * btw i'm only lightbringer r4, so that really doesn't affect it at all.--Reason.decrystallized 19:00, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Was just about to ask about LB rank, thanks. With R8 though you will go through a lot faster. --Arthas 19:02, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * now that i think about it, if you used an essence of celerity, it would affect the hero, too, so you could move points out of inspiration magic into smiting prayers for moar damage.--Reason.decrystallized 19:33, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

trying to beat ravenheart gloom with this but always get stuck on the big mob ... can usually last indefinitely against them, but the ^%$&-ing flesh tormentors combined with the mass of heart tormentors ... you beat the healers by being in the middle of everything so that they run out of energy trying to heal death blossom's damage to 30+ baddies, but if you do that you get body blocked and the flesh tormentor blocks everything with protector's stance and you can't move to make them end the stance. i know wild strike should end it, but there are three or four of them and it seems to be bugged not to. i'll try it with some cons tomorrow :S--Reason.decrystallized 22:18, 26 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Its protector's Defense. Its a skill, not a stance, so wild blow won't remove it. [[Image:Uberxman1028_Sig.jpg|19px]] Uberxman1028  23:13, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * D'OH!--Reason.decrystallized 06:24, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Build:Mo/N Commando Bonder--Reason.decrystallized 15:35, 27 May 2008 (EDT) --Reason.decrystallized 01:27, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

FoW HM Ursan team
Been thinking of creating a variant for this that is capable to unlock and do some of the quests in FoW solo, thus shortening the run time significantly. The idea would be to first run to Eternal Weaponsmith and Kromril the Eternal (try to lure the last shadow army group into the undead on the way) and get both quests from them, allowing the rest of the party to just run straight to the forge and do The Eternal Forgemaster. After getting both quests, you would take the northern way towards Nimros The Hunter to get The Hunt. Reason would be to pop some of the pop ups on the way and to set of a group of Shadow Army against some foes in the Burning Forest. When you get to Nimros, your party should have unlocked Restore the Temple of War, so as soon as you get The Hunt, kill the first Shard Wolf on the way. After the Shard Wolf, run the spider cave and kill all the Seeds of Corruption on the way (this is where you save most of the time). Get the Shard Wolf on the beach and run back through the spider cave. Your party should now be close to finishing Khobay the Betrayer. If not, kill some spiders or snarling driftwoods. Alternatively, you can run to Tower of Courage to kill the Shard Wolf there. When your party have killed Lord Khobay, run to Forge and get Tower Mage and finish the quest Tower of Strength. Kill the Shard Wolf in this area and run to Miko the Unchained and wait until your party is ready to start the quest. As soon as they are, get the quest and run and kill the Shard Wolf in the Great Battle Field. After that wolf, get the one in Forest of the Wailing Lord by entering the forest the other way. When the wolf is down, run and pick up the Unholy Text and finish Army of Darkness. If you have enough time, go kill the Shard wolf in Tower of Courage if you haven't already. If your party is already close to finishing The Wailing Lord, go get A Gift of Griffons and stand by the griffons until your party has cleared the way.

Summary
 * Quests you unlock:
 * The Eternal Forgemaster
 * Army of Darkness
 * The Hunt
 * Slaves of Menzies


 * A Gift of Griffons
 * Quests you do:
 * The Hunt (all wolves except the Burning Forest and Tower of Courage (if you don't have time))
 * Restore the Temple of War (all of it)
 * Army of Darkness (partially; you run the Unholy Text to Kromril)
 * A Gift of Griffons (by running the Griffons to Rastigan)

Since you don't participate in the killing of many enemies, you should not be forced to bring any Consumables. --Arthas 03:28, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Golden Fang Strike
Would it speed up kills or not? <font color="#000">&not; Klump eet  07:46 {GMT} 27-05-<font face="Times">MMVIII
 * Only agains monks and healing in general. Wild Strike deal more damage overall. Tbh Deep Wound is overrated. --Arthas 03:51, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You could use it if you came across healers, but an unblockable attack that cancels stances it helpful. We could add it to variants. -Mike 07:20, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

The Secret lair of the snowmen
is doable. thx nova mortelle I.--Reason.decrystallized 14:19, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

Mission Runner
I just killed Varesh twice in Ruins of Morah and got Masters with this build, origional. Just put a few healing and condition countering skills on General Morghan's bar since he is requuired to help out.-- Phail   Tock  A guide to this user. 13:17, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Added the A/E video
Just a demonstration of it in the first level in Tomb of the Primeval Kings, may add level 2, 3, and so on later. --Trev 22:52, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
 * kewl, thx much.--Reason.decrystallized 23:23, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
 * np, just hope its good enough quality to learn from :) --Trev 08:13, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Aatxes
Someone knows what do to against them? Since they use bleeding you just slowly die... 81.204.220.226 07:17, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
 * you can't kill them with this build by itself. you can take  and kill them before running to chaos plains etc, or you can just leave them alone and start running right away.--Reason.decrystallized 08:41, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

It can also do
the norn fightinf tournament.-- Phail   Tock  A guide to this user. 16:07, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
 * what cant?  Antiarchangel [[Image:Antiarchangel No U Sig.png|19px]] <font color=#C0641B>TROLL  16:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Good luck against Mhenlo.  16:11, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
 * and Gwen, though there might be ways around that. IMO there are better tournament farmers, but yeah, it can kill MOST of the people.  I'd still take an SA running that funky blinding lead attack whose name escapes me atm.--Reason.decrystallized 16:30, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

How would one get past the centaurs in EotN? I'm doing the quests for Sif Halla and I can't survive due to the trample skill. I've tried Way of Perfection, just not good enough...
 * just take a party if you're doing quests ... this is for farming. if you have trouble though, try the bonder build linked to at the bottom of the build.--Reason.decrystallized 14:08, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Sorrow's Furnace
Has anyone tryid farming there? Can you do it? This might be a stubid question, but i'm still quite a "noob" so.. please, I would really appreciate your info on this :) Zhina 10:53, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Grenth's Footprint is farmable (Yakslapper is a pain to kill, but it's possible). So I'm assuming Furnace would be too, it's just the Priests you gotta be careful of.


 * preists cant kill you, they just make it damn hard to kill anything. The way you overcome this is the following: Get the enemies all grouped up with the priest in them. then you all out dmg the priest as much as possible while spamming death blossom. This forces the priest to rely on the 10 energy spell heal area. After a while of making him use heal area, he will run low on mana, and eventually will not be able to out heal your damage even on himself.Tartreg 14:08, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

armored cave spiders
i cant kill them because of their healing.
 * bunch them together by running so that they follow you and come together. then start in.  once there is someone in melee range, they stop using healing spring, so as soon as it expires, you're golden.--Reason.decrystallized 12:38, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Nah, its easier to first spawn them, then let them spread out then kill them one by one. Goes a lot faster acctually. -- Arthas  [[Image:ArthasSignature.jpg|19px|I love this skill :D]]  Talk  17:03, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

Dont use this
Without zealous daggers XD--<font color="99CCFF">R ELYK   <font color="CCCCFF">ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ  06:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You'd run out of energy pretty quick. lol -Mike 08:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

question
sos about my freaking noobish question but how i learn critical agility?(i have nf )
 * ...Go to the Sunspear guys (the Skill Point guys) and trade a Hero Skill Point for it. --Guild of Deals<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 08:38, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

can u kill grasping darknesses with this build or do u loose energy because of "Fear me"? Plohek 04:26, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * well obv you can, they don't use fear me. EXteel 04:27, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

They dont use fear me, cuz they dont get adrenaline, cuz they cant hit throught SF^^
 * Actually they do. They have "To the Limit!" and sometimes I get fucked over by em. If you have a large enough mob of Graspings and they use "Fear Me!" at the right time it could kill you. --Guild of Deals<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 07:44, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * i think you mean grasps of insanity have "to the limit!", not grasping darknesses. but grasping darknesses also use "fear me!" because  they gain adrenaline from taking damage--they have enough after about 80-90% of their max health is gone, or so it seems.  but they generally only get to use it once.  grasps of insanity are a different story, especially in hm.  still totally doable, but you have to be careful.--Reason.decrystallized 09:06, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

PROBLEM!!!!!!!
when i am to the entrane of chaoss planes there r some moobs like graspings and kill me with shock.what can i do?
 * aggro them, run back, then run around them when they follow. don't get close to them.  using an essence of celerity helps.--Reason.decrystallized 09:07, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * They're called Charged Blacknesses. You will need a speed boost to beat them (Dark Escape, Essence of Celerity, or Dash). In general, run around them or wait until they move out of the way. At the top of the page (section 1, done before the SF superbuff), there's a couple of screens of the run. - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  10:06, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

where excatly are the bone pits? and are they enemies or a part of UW map? and how do u get there? Plohek 14:46, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * GWiki it. It's a section of the UW map, northeast of the Chaos Planes. To get there, when you enter the Chaos Planes from the Twin Serpent Mountains, turn right. you'll see a couple of Chained Souls/Dead Threshers/Dead Collectors. That's the Bone Pits. - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  15:00, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

You mean left? where there's a cave? Plohek 07:16, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

IDS farming


My pleasure :) --Arthas 16:42, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

Speed
If this really clears Bone Pits/Chaos Plains in 60-90 minutes, it is rather slow eh? For NM:

That build clears Chaos Plains in 25-30 minutes. You need <20% hp so the mobs won't scatter like heck (use a vamp wep to keep HP low). Bone Pits is a breeze too, if you can ball up a bit. The Threshers are heck to ball from time to time >.< The difference between NM and HM is only the amount of grapes, which doesn't matter a whole lot if the run takes half the time, which means more ectos in the long run. So there --84.24.206.123 17:07, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Could you make it a bit more detailed? Like equipment and tactics. Looks interesting.  Arthas  18:43, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

u get more ectos at hm?
 * Nope. Ectos are crafting materials, and crafting materials and trophies have the same drop rate regardless of difficulty. --71.229 01:54, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I use that build and it's much more simple and fast. U just have to keep Fire Atunement up and use GoLE, then Mark of rodgort and lava font. u can then just spawm lava font and recast anything if needed. Plohek 07:24, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * there's been a theory, however, that drop rate is linked to how many guys die at once--and it squares with my observations. using this, i cleared the plains faster, but only got two ectos--using a different build, it was slower, but i got six.  maybe just luck, but lots of other people have noticed this, too.--Reason.decrystallized 05:29, 10 June 2008 (EDT)


 * I had 11 ectos in one run, and sometimes I have none; go figure. --84.24.206.123 15:26, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Chaos Planes on HM?
Can this build be used to farm the chaos fields on hm?--Vgfanatic2
 * yes, though it's rather harder to get there and slower to do.--Reason.decrystallized 17:45, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

do u get more ectos? =D--Vgfanatic2
 * no. there was some discussion about this ... one opinion is that more ectos drop in nm, and more golds in hm, other people say it's even.  either way it's NOT more in hm, but i don't actually know which of the two is true.--Reason.decrystallized 19:50, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

aw
 * also plz sign your comments with ~ .--Reason.decrystallized 20:06, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Yakslapper???
How in the world can you kill Yakslapper? I can never kill him it seems, I only done it once.
 * To kill him, you need to get him around all his little friends. spam your death blossom, get him to waste his mana with his heal area and protection spell. when its off him and he has no mana, (can take a little bit) then you can eventually out dps his heals.Tartreg 06:14, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Rotscale
I soloed Rot with this build. Tell me how to upload screenies.Bluerask 01:24, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * type in [[Image:imagename.jpg]], then save your edit, click on the red link, and a screen will come up to give you the option to upload.--Reason.decrystallized 05:22, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * oh, and thanks for the suggestion. i hadn't even thought of rotscale--going to try it right now.--Reason.decrystallized 05:30, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * how did you do it with this build? you cant have. number one: the clerics have bane signet, which kills you. Number 2: there are 5 points on the island that poison you when you step on them, and you cant bring rotscale down. to do him, you would need a variant to this build and you would need to kill the clerics first and then live through poison.Tartreg 06:12, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

sf bypassing and luck
first i have cleared all the chaos planes and the half bone pits for 5 times but i didnt get any ectos.second i said half bone pits becuase feast of corruption and mark of pain bypassed sf and i died.what can i do? also i dont understand where to put these '(77.49.52.193 06:18, 10 June 2008 (EDT))'.
 * eh, the ectos is luck, and that sounds crappy. i will post the reason that you die in the bone pits to the build, plz look there.--Reason.decrystallized 06:20, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I may think that you got hit by suffering and feast aoe damage, which may have been caused by masterless minions being struck by those spells with you bei ng abjacent, as a result of sf being unable to protect you from this type of damage you have been effected. As for ecto drop rate I may think of one only reason which is the area being severely overfarmed, as far as I have seen from gw fansites a lot of people are making an assassin for the sole puprpose of farming in that area, wilst, overfarmng it. --<font face="Forte" color="OrangeRed">Tiger  [[Image:Tiger's Fury Tigrr.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black"> grrr!!  06:24, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * meh, my last run got 9 ectos, so don't know. and yes, that is the reason you died--i put a note about it on the main page.--Reason.decrystallized 06:49, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

Loot scaling does not affect crafting materials, i went with daggers build and i only got 2 ectos 89.142.184.218 09:07, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * yeah, i know that, but the question is whether killing things all at once affects the drop rate. some people say yes, others say no, i'm really not sure.--Reason.decrystallized 09:29, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Beautiful.
Indeed this is a great build -- I prefer it to spellcasting perma-SF builds since with daggers and CS, energy gain is active and not passive [which Fear Me mobs typically can wank up]. Being paranoid about energy, I swapped out the spammy chain shown here for a chain inspired by a youtube vid of a similar, older build -- Golden Lotus / Lotus / DB / Golden Phoenix, and the last slot replaced by Dash for running past the traps / ourunning squidders. The damage is great and several times the redundant Lotus strikes have saved me from a 'Fear Me spike.' Typically I think that the chain shown here is better for the team build with bonder, since that would allow it to handle Aatxes, but solo, since touching Aatxes is just asking for it, anti-block is a bit useless. Lack of IAS isn't a huge problem, typically you can have 3 DBs and usually eak out a 4th per SF reapplication. Chaos plains is great, wasted around 15k learning how to run to the place but after I got it it was smooth sailing. 7 ectos right away on my first run; thumb nose at smite farmers. :D 67.234.7.172 15:13, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Thank god, Someone who understands why i had the build the way it was!!! Tartreg 07:51, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Darn, reading above it looks like I was using the 'old' version, haha. Oh well... 67.234.7.172 15:18, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * i knew why it was the way it was. but the way it is, is better.  just take a staff of enchanting to switch to before refreshing and you're fine.--Reason.decrystallized 17:24, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * However for Chaos Plane farming you need Dash -- I dislike relying on consumables because they're... all too consumable, and replacing either CE or CA with Dash hurts the build because the E-management relies on those two skills. Overall, the original build compresses the skill bar more efficiently, although the current one is a bit more no-brainer and a bit spammier. To each their own methods though, I guess. 67.234.7.172 21:31, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Dark Escape instead of Critical Eye. gets you there fine, and doesn't slow you down too much on spamming.  just don't forget your staff.--Reason.decrystallized 21:42, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
 * There is no need for a running skill you can outrun the blacknesses by taking the back route at just your normal run speed. Tartreg 13:59, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Secret Lair of the Snowman HM
Do-able in HM???? Avatar Kuzon 22:13, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * probably. i'll give it a shot tomorrow.--Reason.decrystallized 22:55, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * tbh a lot of dungeons should be doable--those frickin' turret blasters are actually spells, so they don't hurt you thanks to SF. i just have to get off my lazy ass and try them.--Reason.decrystallized 22:56, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Aight, cool. I'll try it as soon as I'm unbanned u_u. 2 week ban = QQ. Secret snowman lair is supposedly one of the easiest ways to farm deldrimor points. Avatar Kuzon 23:20, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * okay, i was wrong, the turrets can get you through sf ... annoying. take a bonder maybe.--Reason.decrystallized 00:34, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Ya, the Sf/Commando Team build should do it. Avatar Kuzon 09:05, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
 * it does. probably several more as well, though some i know for sure that it can't.--Reason.decrystallized 21:46, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

IDS
when i get in mineral springs those avicara always kill me with ignite arrow, and i use dark escape but it doesnt help. how am i supposed to survive? Plohek 05:37, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
 * avoid them, basically.--Reason.decrystallized 15:26, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Just run your ass down really. I recommend taking the northwest path to the cave. Taking the northeast only give you lot of troubles (more Aviciara Fierce and Giants with Giant's Stomp). if you do get killed by first spawn, don't worry, you will get ressed at the res shrine behind them. -- Arthas  [[Image:ArthasSignature.jpg|19px|I love this skill :D]]  Talk  16:56, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

oh, in Secret Lair of the Snowmen i get hit by those blasters through shadow forum, and in the Angry Snowmen area, i hardly survive, so they CAN hit you. Plohek 02:50, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

A/E isnt needed
with a grail of might, and 16 shadow arts, deadly paradox is enough.-- Phail   Tock  A guide to this user. 16:19, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Look in the main article. It's already been stated that you can run with an Essence of Celerity (thats what its called) and remove Glyph of Swiftness, thus allowing you to run any other second profession. -- Arthas  [[Image:ArthasSignature.jpg|19px|I love this skill :D]]  Talk  16:50, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

This build can do Aatxes without monk...
just bring an essence, and Plague Touch or plague sending, it can kill the Aatxes.-- Phail   Tock  A guide to this user. 02:08, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 * better yet, dont waste money on an essence. use sliver armor. it always targets the attaxes before the grasps, so you can use the grasps for dmg and on top of that it allows you to get rid of the behemoths if they are blocking your way, as long as you are very careful, because sliver armor works on nearby enemies, not ajacent. Tartreg 14:04, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

shadow army warriors
the warriors for the shadow army out heal my dps with the healing signet...anyway to combat this?
 * i had a problem with that too, all i did was constantly spam the attack skills, and at the very last moment use Shadow Form, eventually he would die.-- Phail [[Image:Lord Belar Epic Fail.jpg|19px]]  Tock  A guide to this user. 15:25, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
 * for the shadow warriors, this is why my original build was superior. when you spam high damage attack skills nonstop, they stand no chance. with the edit that is up now, you dont spam as much and you get less damage.Tartreg 13:57, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

i have a problem with cave spiders in FoW, they use healing spring and they overheal my damage. and is there any other builds like this one that can kill them? Plohek 13:05, 22 June 2008 (EDT)


 * the spiders are very easy the damage you give out can be minimal as long as you position yourself correctly with them. i like them where they drop, because the way to kill them is to work from the outside of a group in. You position yourself IN BETWEEN the spiders as best you can, get as close to them as possible. if you are next to the spiders and you cut one off, you can kill it easily. Tartreg 13:57, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Question
instead of using a essence think you could replace the chain with golden pheonix and repeating strike, then add dash in the left over slot to get past the behmoths?? Leon the Dominator
 * oh yea and the only reason i suggested repeating strike instead of just replacing golden fox and wild while leaving DB is so that you do not have to wait 8 seconds for pheonix, i'm impatient ;) Leon the Dominator
 * It would work, but Repeating Strike is insanely weak and you miss the AoE damage of Death Blossom. --Guild of Deals<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 09:22, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
 * why bother? just use dark escape/dash instead of critical eye and be more careful of your energy.--Reason.decrystallized 10:08, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
 * alright tyvm ill try these various methods plus my own Leon the Dominator
 * Actually, like I have done with the original chaos fields farmer, take out critical agility for dark escape/dash. I little bit harder with the newer build but still works. Much better for chaos plains and u dont have to waste ur money on an essence.
 * critical eye not critical agility. CA gives you 50% more attacks, therefore 50% more energy from zealous AND from crits AND more auto-attack damage.  it is the stronger of the two.--Reason.decrystallized 11:59, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Plus, you need to reuse Critical Eye every 30 seconds. Critical Agility should go up and stay up until you're finished with the group. - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  12:47, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Problems with FoW
Rastigan the Eternal keeps dying on me, and I keep getting kicked out because of it. This is Normal Mode, if it makes any difference. >.> -Mike 12:57, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
 * long story short, run back as soon as you enter FoW and hug the wall to avoid aggroing. then make sure that he is out of your aggro bubble when you first aggro the baddies.  occasionally, though, you will get a bad spawn and aggro immediately upon entering, with nothing you can do about it.  which sucks but there's nothing you can do.--Reason.decrystallized 16:51, 24 June 2008 (EDT)