Template talk:Meta-Build

The wording on this makes me insane. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 08:29, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * how so?  ~ PheNaxKian talk  09:14, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * For starters, it's "commonness" and not "commonality". "Deserves to be stored" is also a completely redundant and weird phrase, I'd just word this whole thing like "The community has decided/found that this build is in the current metagame. The commonness section describes how often/frequently the build is seen/used/encountered."
 * All the alternatives work, some just sound finer than others. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 08:25, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would uhh, frequency work? commonness is awkward to say :< Life   Guardian  10:27, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ups. It totally would. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 11:20, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR CHANGING ALL THOSE TO "FREQUENCY", BUT IT MAKES ME INSANE -- DANDY ^_^ -- 05:56, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Just going to say that commonality doesnt mean what you think it means D: Life   Guardian  01:12, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Derp. Ok, do you want frequency or incidence or some other synonym? I suspect you don't care which though. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 01:20, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Incidence is a very good word for it, but also subject to misinterpretation, so let's just make it "frequency". -- DANDY ^_^ -- 21:09, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible to make this a different color if the supplied rating is "good"? I was thinking it should be a lighter purple in those cases to visually distinguish Meta-Great from Meta-Good. --  Toraen   talk  03:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You could use a #switch, similarly to how its already being used in the template, or something like – BalisticSig.pngalistic  04:35, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * it's possible (per Balistic), but why exactly? It does say it's good and I don't see the need to further differentiate meta builds other than that (at least personally I don't. I don't have any objections other than it seems pointless to me, so it can be implemented if people would rather just tell by the colour).  ~ PheNaxKian talk  19:39, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I admit it's more a stylistic thing. I'm pretty sure no one actually reads the text in the tag though, beyond "This build is part of the current metagame." Or they just think, oh purple tag = meta. --  Toraen   talk  22:10, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

new color
Is same as trash build template. Can't have that lol. Chieftain  Alex  20:42, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Build:W/A Shadow Form Runner and Template:Trash-Build. They don't look alike to me. --  Toraen   talk  20:46, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * User Chieftain Alex Template Colours.png -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain  Alex  21:07, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * They look quite different to me. Trash is Pink, Meta-Good is Light Purple. I think this might be a result of our different monitor settings though. What does everyone else think? --  Toraen   talk  21:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * [[File:Meta_And_Trash_template.png]]
 * No, Alex just has fucked up settings. @Alex, check your monitor settings and browser related things.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  22:32, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * urgh, appologies. Just checked the code for the template and the background changes colour depending on it's rating. *shakes fist at Toraen* I'll have at what colour we can use for good.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  22:38, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Does it actually look the same as the trash template right now? It seriously doesn't to me, even if I put the colors next to each other without the borders. --  Toraen   talk  22:46, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Which browser are you guys using. [I'm on IE9] -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  22:47, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * [[File:SuggestedMetaTemplateColour.png]]
 * EC x2. Here's my suggested colour (basically the only difference is the "good" rating colour, the one in the middle). Thoughts?
 * Toraen, you need to add "Rating=good" to the template. You added in a change to colours based on their rating
 * Alex, you may have been right but stop being bad and get a good browser. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian  <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:48, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks good as a suggestion colour. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  22:50, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * IE exists to download a better browser... I'd suggest Opera or Firefox. Chrome and Safari are balls. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 22:51, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I did use a rating=good meta template for my comparison. They're still quite different. Also, just looked at Good-Meta and Trash on IE9 myself, and they look different to me. I'm pretty sure Alex needs to adjust his monitor. --  Toraen   talk  22:53, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Purple and pink are gay, what's wrong with red and gold? <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 22:58, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Gold and silver? <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 22:59, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Toraen, while they're different they're quite similar. (i've checked in FF and IE9, and on both my monitors which have different settings). I'd rather people be able to just kind of glance at it and instinctively know what it is and as it stands you'd have to take a second look to make sure you saw correctly.
 * Vorpal: show us what you have in mind.
 * Shadow: That wouldn't stand out from the page. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  23:03, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If the shade of purple for "good" meta tag is what I think it is, I confuse that with the trash template all the time. The shade for the great tag is fine though. A gold rim and purple bg might look good though. I always found the "royal" theme appealing for the meta tag.-- Relyk 23:07, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Same thought of mine, that's why I said gold and silver :P <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 23:09, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, gold was nice, silver different story though :( <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 23:17, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to change the colors, but I always thought that a gold colored header would look nice for meta builds. Kinda corresponding to the golden GW HM helmet. EDIT: I just realized that it might be a bit too similar to the WELL-tag, which is kinda brownish. =/ <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 23:18, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * <--- Phen removed because it was cluttering shit up --->

Owye, btw, remove the nowiki tags and also, don't forget to remove the things between brackets and the " ' " thingies. Good Luck <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 23:26, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Vorp, Phen made a testthingie. Good Luck <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 23:26, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * User:Phenaxkian/TestMetaTemplate just use it on this page. I removed some stuff just from that version (for ease). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  23:32, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * User:Howe304/Helpfull Stuff/Color Chart is useful for colours <3 -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  23:54, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm aware given I originally lifted it from wikipedia, but it's a very limited selection of colours, which is why I recommended an online colour picker. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian  <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Gold and Silver
<FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 23:41, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't like the gold, at all (far too bright) <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:03, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

-- <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  00:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like trial and great :P <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 08:18, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

?-- Relyk 03:52, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Would agree <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 07:43, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe make the borders a little bigger, because at first I thought you were just making a joke (as in, doing the two templates the same). Otherwise, I kinda like a darker purple for the meta tag like it is now, but that's just me. Ups, I'm retarded, it's the same color as the current meta template. -- Jai . -  16:35, November 26 2011 (UTC)
 * Added another variable to phen's template ; defaults at 2px.


 * + good idea Jai, I rather like relyk's colours with slightly larger border. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  17:05, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Nobody uses the frequency section! And it's kinda redundant with a meta-tag =/ <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 17:11, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's for PvP a lot more than PvE. Though come to think of it, should we try and make different templates for PvE and PvP? -- Jai . -  17:16, November 26 2011 (UTC)
 * You guys are seriously trying to make this system way to complicated....Also the point is the background colours are supposed to be different for great and good. (Just) The border being a different colour is worse than what we have now.... <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  17:29, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Also i'm against having a different size border, if you have to make it thicker to see then you're using the wrong colour(s). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  17:40, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Should we just not bother suggesting anything phen? :D-- Relyk 19:57, 26 November 2011 (UTC)



Unless we used a different cape, the gold + purple really just need to stay. If we make this a totally different color (Besides Phen's gold background, that was actually nice) the cape should change as well. That cape is a really good focal point. The two colors act as opposites and blends in well with the background. Changing the background to something close to gray will only make that cape a distraction. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]   16:29, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Brainwave; we could get a pic of someone's cape with silver trim for meta-good. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  16:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Thoughts? [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  17:11, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Get someone to join a silver trim guild and remake the gold trim guild into a silver trim. The blue and purple don't mix, but the trim will look awesome with the purple background. But like I said on the talk page, I still like it. It just needs some adjustments. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 17:13, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and put "This build has also received an overall Rating in the range from 3.75 to < 4.75 and thus qualifies for the lower category of working builds: Good" as the second sentence and keep the frequency part last. Maybe just for consistency put the great meta with the rating bit as well? <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 17:14, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My issue is that these suggeestions (baring the complete gold/silver ones) aren't making the difference between good and great noticeable (Border/image colour doesn't really stand out...). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  18:46, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I take it you meant Shadow's gold background vince? [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  19:05, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant your's. It's a conservative yellow. BUT, I like the distinction for good and great. I believe the difference between great and good is matched perfectly to gold and silver. Can I join a silver trim and remake the gold one? <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 20:43, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Silver Cape
Phen's approval for using in template in some shape or form? [yay or nay] I don't know if we could use the same background with it.. <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  00:18, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * If you want, but remember the whole point is that we need to differentiate (accessibility/general glancing through) between the meta tag (when rating=good) and the trash build tag, not just a different image. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:24, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Verdict/My Analysis
Seeing that this sort of faded away for a bit, and for the fact that this has been on my mind in the recent days, I feel as if this issue should be resolved. In my opinion, this issue can be solved by simply establishing two different sort of templates for the the great and the good meta tag. In hindsight, the very fact that a "meta" build would be considered as "good" and not "great" uneases me about how our users vote, it seems like a template put in place for this can, at the very least, accommodate for these stray meta bars that find themselves in the good category.

I really love the Great-Meta template. Everything about it is perfect. The color of the background, along with the purple color of the cape, matches very well with the gold trim. Those two colors of purple are essentially the opposite values of the trim, and thus making it stand out. The template itself catches people eyes and makes it very clear that this build is meta. Depending on the route we wish to take, we can either make it the same for the good-meta template by having it be purple, and still keeping that distinguished look with the purple template or go with the other option and make a color scheme that will compliment the silver trim and purple colors of the cape. That is how this template itself will stand from the crowd and let it be known of its merit. The problem with the first option is that many people may not realize the build itself is only good, and could find better options elsewhere. This doesn't sound so bad because PvX doesn't dictate what everyday GW players should run. PvX Wiki is simply a database. The other option would bare minimal, if no problems at all. The biggest challenge would be finding the correct color scheme for the template, which, if any, could be found here. In regards of Toraen's templates, I believe it is fair to say that his options are almost the best. If we make a good-meta template, then I believe that the great-meta one should be changed as well for consistency. Gold and silver alternate much easier than purple and silver. When I think of gold I think of something that is the best. When I think of silver I think of something that is still pretty good, but is not as good as "gold." These two work well with each other, and I think because of the connection of thoughts to these colors, it would be best to change the great-meta color to gold.

Having said that, that could possibly bring up another problem with the Great-Meta template looking a lot like the WELL tag or even the Trial tag. They're both warm-ish looking colors and I bet at a first glance, someone may mistakenly see the wrong tag at first. It's not a major problem, but it is a factor nonetheless. Also, if we change the color of the great-meta tag, I believe that the purple font on the main page for "Meta" should stay the same. It looks fine the way it is. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]   21:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoa, completely forgot about this and yeah, the tag looking too close to WELL (or even the deprecated "Other" category) was pretty much why I hadn't pursued it further. I'd definitely like to cut down the text in the tag as shown in Vincent's link even if we don't change the colors though. -- Toraen   confer  22:13, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The text was made to follow the style of the other templates we use, so it would seem odd to change it... <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:58, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * By cut down, I mean that the meta template omits the sentence saying "community has decided build is in current metagame" when a rating is supplied because the bolded sentence says as much (it's only there in the non-rating supplied version because there's nothing else to say). With both that sentence and the "has received a rating of" sentence the tag is too bulky compared to the vanilla good and great tags. -- Toraen   confer  23:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, while looking at Toraen's, I noticed that there was no "This Build has been designed for the following use:" which is something I think really should be added. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 23:08, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I just left that stuff out to make it easier to edit colors. I copied it from Phen who did that as well. -- Toraen   confer  03:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)