Archive talk:R/A Escape Daggers

Who needs ias when you can pewpew ppl. I srsly outpressured 2 monk teams with another one of this it was hilarious. The other guy on our team wasnt contributing to damage since he was a para w/ random shouts/chants that didnt help much, had a Mo/D though using new buffs P WNAGEMUFFIN    crabs  22:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Should i tag this with HA/gvg/ta/cm/ect? [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  22:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, kiting isn't used in RA/TA. CM isn't PvP, it's a fagfest. Any 8 skills of 0... 1 ...3 attributes works. Don't tag for GvG. They might know what kiting is. [[Image:Goodnight LA mcsig.png]] 22:51, 7 August 2009
 * Alright then tagging for cm as well for now, duno bout ta [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  22:52, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * why not ha?--Relyk 23:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What if u drop black mantis strike for apply poison? u have escape for ims. Fiendly Fire 23:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dont rly need personal experiences on the notes section >.< ßʀоɴɀɛ ( Kurzick_FTW | Talk | Contribs ) 23:35, 7 August 2009 (UTC)23:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Two of these + FC Barbs in TA = win? [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 23:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I still think A/D will pump more damage but I have been trying something like this:

has lots of utility with snare, poison+bleeding spread, interrupt with exhaustion and enchantment removal. -- Frosty  Mc Admin  23:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, i'm going with that bar as superior.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 00:51, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

No need for 2 leads really with such a quick recharging one.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick."  00:07, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dah fuck, forgot needs enchant nm...-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 00:07, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Leaping mantis in the bar above was more for it's snare not for it's lead attackness. -- Frosty  Mc Admin  00:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said before, you have escape for ims. Also, the cripple from leaping mantis isn't really a sure thing in RA. Fiendly Fire 00:40, 8 August 2009 (UTC
 * I know there is a template for non assasin dagger builds around here somewhere...-- Under Gunned  00:43, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * lolupdates. And mantis is like bulls, if you know how to use it, you're fine.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 00:50, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Assassin version of this is bad due to heavy energy issues unless u bring that encahtn which is also strippleble, not to mention no condition removal or 75% block [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  00:57, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * LoL at bulls comparison, but I get it. I still liek that template though O_0-- Under Gunned  04:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah updates mean ranger gets more spam. someone make a ss rit with daggers now--Relyk 04:42, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * not sure if you were sarcastic there but...isnt the only reason a ranger is running this over an assassin escape's survivability? Funkopotomis 06:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * nope, escape just means you get to spam attack skills on them constantly. frosty has mentioned and tested that sins can't afford it.--Relyk 06:57, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Drop Black Mantis, add Lightning Reflexes. Why aren't you bringing a very powerfull IAS when you have the opportunity for it? And this is, except for Fox Fangs, very blockable, and I don't remember the last time I saw a monk without Guardian in RA...Thomahawk 14:34, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Who needs an IAS when all but one of your attack skills is 1/2 activation? tss..Wielder Of Magic 15:23, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Put an AB tag up as well, and I would replace Res Sig with Dshot in AB for some long range interrupts or if your chasing a caster who is quite a distance away. Otherwise, this is a nice template :D -- Douche [[Image:Skull Crack.jpg|19px|OWNED!]] WHACK!  16:12, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Says 68 dps from master of damage (who i think has 60 armor) [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  17:58, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I felt like a shitter trying this out -- -Ch  ao  s-   20:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Same here. Along with the Rt/A version which gets 100-140dps in it's spike. Which can be a retarded 3 second spike.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 22:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The best possible variant..
With 1/2 lead and dual attacks, and covering the rest of your attacks with Escape, you're a force to be reckoned with! Bleeding, armor-ignoring AoE d0m0gez, kd, DW and block/IMS = /pwnt --BlazingBurdy 23:51, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * falling spider--Relyk 00:09, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * spike is slooow after lead-offhand. --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  00:33, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * they're kded >.>--Relyk 00:35, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * healing from outside sources exists --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  00:37, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If that healing source is kd'ed and trained, it is extinguished. --BlazingBurdy 15:22, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Lol good joke Anet...
 * I think Falling Lotus is best for constantly pumping out blossom while staying on vamp dag's, but to each his/her own. I say mainbar falling lotus for it's maintainability tbh. --BlazingBurdy 04:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * its tagged for ra, cm, and ab--Relyk 07:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * does this build seem stupid to anyone...
 * How's instacast lead/offhand and kd+aoe+dw with block coverage stupid? Does this unsigned comment from some anonymous, incompetent poster seem stupid to anyone...? --BlazingBurdy 01:25, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Black Mantis
Why Black Mantis? I mean if this was in a hex team, yes it would be quite good, but as it is it's just a quick-to-recharge lead, and you have jagged anyway. Is it just for the +damage or something? +18 doesn't seem all that good though... 86.27.130.214 11:35, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * hexes aren't uncommon and it's a fast recharge/fast activation skill with unconditional damage. -- -Ch  ao  s-   13:19, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * DW/KD/AoE from Blossom >>> unconditional damage from a second useless lead attack, my good sir's (read under best possible variants and weep). --BlazingBurdy 15:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I see much DW and KD on the mainbar. gj. -- -Ch  ao  s-   15:28, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * what? no you dont...-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 15:58, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * obv sarcasm is sad to not be noticed. -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:16, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wut chaos said, it also adds more versatility [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  18:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Apply
apply poison as variant or optional maybe? instead of silly lotus strike. Your skills cost 1 fucking energy... 91.16.139.171 20:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Quite many have been thinking the same. Personally I wouldn't do it unless planning on spreading degen with Jagged, but why the heck is Lotus Strike in there? -- -Ch  ao  s-   20:38, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * just add it. it's a wiki and it's only variants ffs FMK- 23:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ehwa? apply poison's popup tab doesn't appear...-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 03:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "only a variant" doesn't exist. And o' strong brave man, why not do it yourself? Which after I'd cause drama. -- -Ch  ao  s-   09:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Daggers without A/.
So, now that they're quick-activating attack skils, rangers are suddenly good with daggers? this makes no sense. 98.117.180.15 16:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If they do it better than sins do, then yes, they are good with daggers. People would have said that warriors with scythes was a terrible idea, until Warrior's Endurance got buffed. Times change, and builds that would previously be seen as shit can actually become useful. -- Jai Goes <font color="Purple">Monksassin Monksassin-icon.png 16:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the warrior with scythes thing is more PvE-aimed, but the point still stands. -- Jai Goes <font color="Purple">Monksassin Monksassin-icon.png 16:20, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * fail anon is fail [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  16:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A/D is still better really. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  16:54, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * not in ra [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  17:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In ra, spike sins>pressure sins cause pressure sins get ganked while spike sins get their chain off then get ganked [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  17:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * R/A's > A/Any's thanks to Anet's uber-kewl update. --BlazingBurdy 18:25, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Escape is probably the only reason why this build is decent --J0™ 11:46, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Could try it with scavengers to-lolspam shit everywhere. don't think even that's needed though.--72.189.84.187 11:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Tbh guys, i find coward to be good with this bar, along with impale, rush and critical eye. as black mantis is gay, and dw is better (Even to finish off with) than rupting. and coward ALL the time ownz Exo Oo 12:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * oh, and guys, since when do sins need to use skills for energy? critical eye with 13 crit and zealous daggers is fineee Exo Oo 12:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

someone make into mini-bar thing, i don't know how. but that does a muich better job, and i'm using it, energy is fine Exo Oo 12:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that lacks: Expertise (still), interrupt, blocking, poison... MadTheorist 14:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Crit Strikes makes up for expertise for the most part (especially considering dual attacks). And a crazy spammable KD sounds a little better than interupts and poison IMO. However, this one definitely has A/x beat in terms of defense. This is probably more RA-oriented, the A/D is more TA oriented. -- Jai Goes <font color="Purple">Monksassin Monksassin-icon.png 14:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

NIGGERS
Like, seriously? You're gonna take another offhand that isn't doing you any good just so you can take another offhand? And why the fuck don't you have -4 degen mainbarred? Not to mention, this build is fun, and it pew pews shit, but it isn't as OP as half of the other fucktarded shit out there. You have no anti-block, so you're fucked against a good monk, and inb4 "every sin gets countered by block" - no shit. That's why most sin bars that get vetted Great have stance and/or enchantment removal, or use a 4 second KD to complete their spike. Some of you are so bad at this game that it's literally painful to know that you may be one day contributing your genes to future generations - I'm just putting my money on some of you earning Darwin Awards and a few more being too socially awkward to even pick up the lonely whales at the Country Night of your local bar. ··· 17:15, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Troll moar. --BlazingBurdy 17:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

-- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  17:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Pet
Even though you will sacrifice expertise, when I tested this Ferocious Strike + Zealous Daggers is enough to maintain energy while providing more dps.jboy157
 * Assassin primary is better than that version [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  18:14, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * only reason to run this is lolescape and lollightning reflexes. (over A/D that is). -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  18:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I use something a little different, I put in Impale and Iron Palm after the first 3 attacks I use Impale Follow it up with iron palm and then chain 2>3 again
 * 20 second recharge skill is v useful. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 17:27, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

i use iron palm wen available i didnt mean it was necesary to chain but it's nice since the prerequisite is easy and only reliable kd available, it still pressures just fine with 1->2->3.


 * I find that apply isn't as good as two utility slots, this does insane pressure w/o poison that won't get spread very well, it also forces you to spec into 3 different things, which means a major rune for expertise... also why are yall bitching about no stance removal? I hear wild strike is good stance breaker and you have exauhsting for anti gaurdian. Optional should be Antidote Signet/Whirling defense, this is strong pressure so I wouldn't even bring impale, you have good ims so I wouldn't bring Black Mantis, which has a conditional every monk is going to be fighting to get rid of, even if you do roll hexer.

[build prof=Ranger/Assassin Exper=12+1+1 DaggerMastery=12][Jagged Strike][Fox Fangs][Death Blossom][Exhausting Assault][Escape][Wild Strike][Optional][Resurrection Signet][/build] &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Undergunned (talk &bull; contribs).
 * Please close the pvxbig's. 71.146.87.158 19:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

tag for hb?
its not really a spike sin and it lacks self heals but its got decent mobility, can break stances, and kills packers easily enough.-- Under Gunned  02:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * made a hb team with this, in testing section [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  02:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Since that team is in gr8 i'll tag this-- Under Gunned  17:33, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Random comment
escape makes this so much more useful in ra than a sin, fk onslaught--Relyk 11:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  15:26, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Seeing it in GvG made me lol until it almost soloed the entire enemy base.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 16:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Except any offensive bar with even one self heal or defensive skill can solo gank. --<font color=Orange face="Comic Sans MS">Shazzy diddles 17:38, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but this can do it with decent speed.-- Under Gunned  17:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I get credit for making tons of people run this in ra and ta [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  21:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No you don't. You're terrible at this game. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 21:46, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes i do i posted this first. + u say that to every1 [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  23:14, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN    <font color="Green">crabs  23:11, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually the thing that made me stop laughing was the fact that it didnt have a self heal and was doing it retarded quick.-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 00:33, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Frosty doesn't get credit for making rawrspike popular even though he posted it, tbh. Stop being a massive faggot. You're worse than half the players on this site. It's so painful to read half of your comments that I simply ignore them the majority of the time. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 19:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * NPA less plz [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  20:13, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * be more of a faggot, please. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 20:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * no u [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  20:26, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Just wondering
Why isn't this in great? It's basically the most overpowered build in the game. --Crow 23:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Read teh vote section, i duno tehy all say its not great material [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  23:11, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well they're all stupid, what amazes me though is the people who are more retarded gave it a better vote even though it deserves a good one. --Crow 23:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * i like thunda's vote the best [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  23:26, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well since everybody obviously doesn't understand why the build works I guess I'll try to explain. R/As are invincible so builds which capitalize on people making mistakes no longer really work against them since the R/A can just escape away block everything and get out of range of the offense for long enough to get healing. They never run out of energy (if you use your brain and don't camp vamp daggers like a fucking retard) so they can just pump constantly. People can't kite them without stance removal (sometimes this isn't enough anyway, especially if they are currently in lightning). 3 1/2 second attacks mean even if your IAS is recharging you attack retardedly fast anyway. It punishes things such as body blocks because of death blossom every ~3/4 seconds. Combo that recharges in 3 seconds means a block causes no problems. Punishes bad positioning on the other team a lot, if people are close to each other swapping from target to target spamming your chain. Absolutely retarded on splits throwing out massive damage on NPCs while taking minimal damage (which allows you, if you're feeling sexual to ball up both knights and death blossom them to death) and being able to push balls deep into lord room to get a kill on bodyguard. The cripple is so easy to land, comparable to landing bulls on pre-nerf primal rage. Added to that you have an 8 second recharging rupt which can keep guardian down long enough to burn a lot of energy on monks or keep warding down permanently basically.
 * Sorry if anything is repeated lots or whatever, I cba sorting through it to make it look presentable. --Crow 01:59, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't notice any flaws. -- -Ch  ao  s-   08:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Tahiri mentioned using soa against them in ha.--Relyk 08:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All 3 of them? -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  09:23, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Weapon spells? Other prots?--TheShortOneKlhksjdnfsig.jpg <font color="Blue">$ɧor₮  <font face="comic sans MS" color="teal">talk  09:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you are talking about sway, honestly in theory it is easy to beat but, well, go to HA and your theory will be wtflol'd at. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  09:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wtf are you talking about? HA Sway is so easy to prot against :/ Drahgal Meir 23:01, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

These guys have no anti-block or anything, and though they have a cripple it's conditional and have no KD. This means they lack the utility and spiking power of other builds. Ofc you can get around this by constantly switching targets and spamming death blossom over and over until ppl die, which is easier with Escape, but it is a point that guardian/soa/wow/wos/war stances/spd etc all stop this in its tracks, at least as far as one person is concerned. 86.31.127.248 09:32, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's almost as easy to prot against as Trip War, mirite? ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 08:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You're obviously just theorycrafting. -- -Ch  ao  s-   10:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep pretty much. [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  15:37, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

For anybody who still thinks I'm wrong, you can always just obs my guild (we only play it on burning actually) or any other top 100 guild pretty much. I'm sure if you see a guild with R/A vs a team without 9 times out of 10 the guild without loses. --Crow 15:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Did i mention i posted this build on pvx [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  15:39, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If not you then someone else. -- -Ch  ao  s-   18:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that Frosty didn't believe me when I said, 5 minutes after reading the updates, that this was gonna be abused to fuck. ··· 19:32, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have either, but when KJ told me about the idea and I tried it, I had a "monstrous revelation" ;o -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:35, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * lol -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  22:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * <3 ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 22:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Enjoy it while it lasts
In at the lastest nine (9) days (if that's when the update comes), Escape will get the nerfstick up its butt to such an extent that this build will not be able to sit for several weeks. My guess is they will make it end on successful hit and increase its duration to be maintainable, which will in turn spawn some shitty lolrangerhealers that think permanent blocking is leet, which will fail horribly and disappear as fast as they came. Anyways, this build needs a nerf. If for the sheer annoyance-factor, MB ele, the 2nd most used fotm in lowlvl PvP is a joke compared to this.
 * mind blast low level pvp? wat? Drahgal Meir 22:07, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't suprise me if it was changed so it ended on a hit so the skill acted like you were escaping...Instead of being the current: "Lightning Charge"-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 22:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * remember WE? ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 22:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * @Drahal: lowlevel pvp= RA/TA mainly. @Ikimono: totally agree. Escape is a ridiculous name for this skill in its current state.
 * Sidenote: It would also mean the end of the annoying scythe rangers too. Next up: Buff bow rangers in a way that they can do damage but not R-Spike. By for example buffing general damage skills and nerfing Savage shot that it does +X damage on spell interrupt but ONLY X damage in every other case.
 * No. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 22:17, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. Stop pigeonholing rangers into a lolconditionspread lolruptspam role. If they wanna devote 8 skillslots to damage then so be it. It's just not fair when Anet designs skills in such a way that you only need to press 123 with 6 rangers to spike someone dead, like it's the current case with savage shot's free 1/2 attack. If it did only X damage when not interrupting, it'd reward skillful rangers and make Rspiking with it impossible. BTW Rangers and Warriors need massive PvE-buffs, just compare to sins, dervs, ritus, etc
 * Mindblast originated in GvG? Drahgal Meir 22:38, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only thing I would agree with u is that Rangers need a massive PvE buff for general usage [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  22:41, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The fact is, Rangers are a utility class and you don't need a whole lot of utility in PvE - you need Damage, Healing, or Buffs. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 22:43, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, it's still overused in RA/TA together with this R/A here. And there are counters to it like anti-fire shields. While anti-piercing shields are almost entirely useless against daggers because of their extremely high bonus damage, bleeding and lolinterruptspam.
 * While I don't agree with you Pwnagemuffin, it takes just a few adjustments for PvE buffs. For example Barrage(PvE) = up to 6 nearby targets, Splinter Shot(PvE) = Deals +X damage to foe and Y damage to all nearby foes. Something along the lines of that.

"Next up: Buff bow rangers in a way that they can do damage but not R-Spike. By for example buffing general damage skills and nerfing Savage shot that it does +X damage on spell interrupt but ONLY X damage in every other case." That would be a buff since it only does + damage on a spell interrupt. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  23:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He means make it only do X damage, like needling or dshot. Life   Guardian  23:17, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahhh, well, with brutal weapon it will still do a fair amount of damage considering it is only a follow-up. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  23:22, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "We’re going to slow things down by switching to a longer development cycle for each skill balance. We'll be shooting for a skill balance every other month instead of every month." - Linsey. =\. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 23:38, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh damnn, another month of annoyance. Translation: "We will be working half as much as we used to because Guild Wars 2 is more important so the company doesn't wanna pay us as much"
 * Whine less please. :p --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 09:26, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol noober. They'll release the updates a month ahead so they can adjust the updates to be better. -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:03, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * And you seriously believe that. Haha. Haha to you sir. You might also believe what your government says, after all they ONLY want the best for their PEOPLE.
 * Fail, I'm not from the US. Start getting an objective perspective on things, don't mock or praise things without actual info. These guys have done a somewhat good job since Linsey & co. started doing most of the job, tho we still have retarded meta's. -- -Ch  ao  s-   13:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope. Your fail. I'm not talking about the US haha. Neither am I from them. "Somewhat good job" is a nice joke. You call the immense power creep "buffing skills to seventh heaven, if people whine nerf it like smiter's boon, if they don't let it stay as it is to further unbalance the classes (see dervish/ele/assa vs warrior/monk)"-strategy good? It's exactly what leads to these "retarded metas".
 * I agree with Chaos. The new updates are interesting and make people come back. I really liked spirit and pet update for PvE for example. You are right on one thing though "if people whine nerf it like smiter's boon" whiners ftl, only making things worse. :p --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 13:20, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Escape (Exp) - Elite Stance. 5e, 12r. For 1...7...8 seconds, you move 33% faster and have a 75% chance to block attacks. -- Change it to 10e, 15r, 1...13...16/33ias. Yeah, it looks a bit like PRage, without double damage. But 75 block is just lolretarded. Gogo perma lightning reflexes without blocking :> <font face="Verdana" color="maroon" size="1">13:27, 1 September 2009
 * No. The LAST thing we need is rangers with perma 33% IAS Scythe/Dagger. The blocking is just an added bonus, escape is used for perma unkitability. PRage without downsides. Lol. Horrible suggestion. The skill's name is still escape btw, then it would fit EVEN less.
 * could see it being the same but with the addition of "All your non-bow attack skills are disabled for 10 seconds." as other skill nerfs have that similar affect added ( ie sig of humility, wastrels collapse, mark of insecurity) PVX-Zuko 13:41, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Then they could just unnerf Expert's Dexterity and add that clause.
 * That wouldnt work, because ED was OP with bow attacks, if you read what i put, its only ever non-bow attack skills that kept disabled the same with WC so you wouldnt get dervs or warrs using it.PVX-Zuko 13:51, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Escape isn't the problems it's the assassin 1/2 attacks lol... -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  13:54, September 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * iffy, lolturrets :> Brandnew 13:56, September 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * no, escape IS the problem. and lightning reflexes. assassins have neither 33% IAS nor IMS. The unkitability of these R/As is what's causing the problems.
 * If you insist, it really isn't that hard to fix. Escape -> End on successful attack (or melee attack). Lightning Reflexes -> 45r (like before). But then you would get A/D running round abusing 1/2 atttacks, but they aren't as good a Escape Daggers obviously (lolblocking). -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  14:06, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * The end on attack part is what I already suggested above. A/Ds will have to spread around extremely speccing into Critstrike, Dagger mastery and Wind Prayers. R/A just runs lolmax Expertise and lolmax dagger mastery. And sacrifice further skills for selfhealing because theres no permanent lolblock.
 * So I herd a 12-10-8 spread was hard. -- Jai Goes <font color="Purple">Monksassin Monksassin-icon.png 14:22, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * So I herd 11 dagger mastery sux, or getting only 2 energy on crit sucks for spamming, or actually, 8 Wind prayers sucks all by itself thanks to short durations with only 8 WP.
 * Exactly. There is nothing wrong with escape on its own (lolblock on self only that consumes an elite slot), there is nothing wrong with the 1/2 attacks on an assassin (hello pressure frontliner with only 70 AL) but when the defense that Escape gives is combined with those attacks you get a killer. My point is that dagger attacks should be on a sin so maybe they could do the same with them as they have with ritualist Weapon Spells; make their power rise greatly with the ammount of points you have invested into Critical Strikes. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 14:25, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * For every 2 Ranks in Critical strikes, your attack skills activate 3% faster??
 * Maybe, but I was thinking more along the lines of damage or recharge times. Also, please sign your comments. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 14:42, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Damage would need a counter-nerf so all dagger skills would do little damage on other professions. Would discourage dagger-use on non-primary Assassins altogether and probably make assas abuse scythes even more. Recharge COULD work if you made the recharge for everything like 8 seconds so it's 4 for sins. I think my idea would need the fewest changes and result in fewest balance problems though. With everything activating ~18% faster they could scratch the 1/2 activations.
 * I dont see how making Dagger Attack damage more reliant on Critical Strikes force assassins to abuse Scythes more sorry. :/ What it would do is tone down the R/A concept without destroying it entirely at the same time making Assassin pressurers more viable. So basically, R/A's will have better defense but less damage and Assassins would have more damage and less defense. Now, you have R/A have lots of both. Same can be done with Scythes and other weapons. Recharge could actually work better though you are right but it kills R/A's. Activation time is an interesting idea but I doubt it's realistic to believe that A-net would make a rollback on activation time update, I also fear that it will imbalance spike sins cause they wont need an IAS. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 14:59, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Or you could not be retarded and realize that attack skills that recharge faster than the prots that would counter it and have an IAS built in are naturally going to break the game. -- Jai Goes <font color="Purple">Monksassin Monksassin-icon.png 15:15, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * So? I realise that. Though, vertually immortal Rangers running those attack skills seems like a bigger problem to me. If they were used by primary Assassins like they should be they would've been less of a threat, with 70AL Sins just cant take too much beating and can't beat kiting as well as Rangers can with Escape. ¬__¬ --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 19:18, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

''For 1...7 seconds, you move 33% faster and have a 75% chance to block attacks. Ends if you use an attack.'' c wut i did there? (Frosty said that somewhere above anyways)--Relyk 20:31, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * 1...12 seconds or it'll never see play, tbh. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 22:02, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Tbh, just revert the dagger skills. Changing Escape is bullshit. Retarded updates are retarded. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">22:04, 1 September 2009
 * besides the fact that they updated skills no one will ever care about, the dagger updates were a pretty good idea. Give daggers an IAS without giving them an IAS. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 22:07, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * They coulda just like made them 1 second skills so they still ahve an ias, but not as effective unless you use somethign like flurry, which a ranger cannot do Exo Oo 22:20, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * i want to abuse dagger spam, people can use natural stride.--Relyk 22:45, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * For 1...12 seconds you move 33% faster and have 75% chance to block but deal 33% less damage. How about that? --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 23:24, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * It would make sense, but the thing is that escape isn't the problem. We held a few games of cap points yesterday running 5 R/A purely by training both the other teams ghosts to death (one of our r/a doesnt even run escape lol). The dagger attacks simply do stupid damage. Rawrawr Dinosaur 23:50, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kill ghostlys with resilient wep on them in 3 seconds is loldamage. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  23:56, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly why they need to /revert the dagger skills. If they nerf Escape, people could just start W/A'ing with WE again. It's pretty much their only option (but they'll probably do something stupid). [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">00:00, 2 September 2009
 * Thats why I suggested to nerf damage of dagger attacks on non-assassin proffessions. :p Escape or not Rangers have 100 armor vs elemental and that comes handy when pretty much everything runs it. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 09:43, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

In conclusion, revert a stupid buff then :/--Relyk 11:22, September 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * Escape - 25e 90r [stance] For 90 seconds, you get laughed at by foes within area and you take quadruple damage. All resurrection attempts on you fail. {Concise Description} You're fucked! xP --BlazingBurdy 19:29, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Troll moar pl0x --[[Image:Jaigoda_endrant.jpg|/rant]]  Jai  writes a  lot . . . 19:34, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Escape - 50e 180r [skill] This skill is permanent. Your Guild Wars files are uninstalled and your computer catches on fire. You cannot reinstall. --BlazingBurdy 19:38, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

The dagger skills are fine for primary sins and WE W/A's would suck since WE is a stance now. So neither LOLBLOCK nor LOL33%IAS nor LOLUNKITABILITY. They would just suck. Escape and Lightning need nerfs.
 * Escape: Now Ends on Attacks
 * Lightning Reflexes: Attack speed increase decreased to 25%, duration decreased to 1...7..8 seconds.
 * Why would you nerf LR? Its already got a high energy cost and long recharge. Drahgal Meir 00:10, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * LR used to have a 45r, it's pretty stupidly good. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  00:33, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * While I agree that LR is strong, its not what makes this bar (or any other ranger bar) as OP as they are. Drahgal Meir 00:35, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Not on this bar, I would say LR is shit stupid on general rangers. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  00:53, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Best possible solution
Limit expertise benefit to BOW attacks, ranger skills, touch skills, and stances! No matter what SKILLS get nerfed you'll get more stupid ranger gimmicks after EVERY update if expertise is continued to be usable with any type of weapon.--TahiriVeila 01:16, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ And tbh, do the same with mesmers (limit fast casting to primary mes skills, or make it less effective for secondaries). RaO Axe and Hammer would still work though!!! -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  01:24, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kinda ruins the fun in making a game based around close intertwined relationships between primary/secondary professions >: [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  01:42, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * The game wasn't designed well enough for it to work properly sadly. 1 Second cast skills which are fine on necro's are stupidly good on mesmers (as well as 2 second casts). Goes the same for ele secondary. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  01:45, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kill teh game moar, and saves teh game less. Builds just cannot be balanced until the source is destroyed. No1 plays gw1 anymore, anywayz, amirite? Need a cure? Kill the patient! Good 2 go? --BlazingBurdy 02:09, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree, quite allot of people still play. :p --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 17:04, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Or they could just revert the dagger-buffs, because the problem didn't exist before these buffs... WHOAH! THAT WAS HARD TO FIGURE OUT! --J0™ 20:29, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Or they could just make expertise not apply to non-bow attacks and cure half of the AIDS gw has. ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 20:58, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * then rangers would be useless in pve...--Relyk 21:29, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * They pretty much already are, unless for specific farming builds [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  23:37, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * rangers have Splinter Barrage...-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 04:11, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's to bad Rits do that better...--24.4.132.53 05:45, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * lolbarrage, overrated piece of crap :> --J0™ 15:07, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Wipe that smile off your face you ignorant maggot.-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 15:42, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

This is what is good now?
Wow. I am quitting GW. I'll see you when GW2 comes out. Hopefully there won't be retarded builds like this and every other R/X Escape Bitch. 98.247.88.222 16:54, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Tbh, just wait a week or two. Surely Anet will nerf this.....surely they're not this stupid? Nvm, see ya later. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:27, 4 September 2009
 * Prepare for the same shit, different smell, come GW2. It's your money, not mine. Gogo Charr Sways and terrible 'skill-balancing' part two! --BlazingBurdy 22:39, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm actaully really interested in how the races will effect the classes. ex: an asura ranger or Norn necro.-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 04:13, September 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * They claim to be implementing less total skills per class to make balance easier, but I don't know who they think they're kidding. --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  02:09, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * There should be experienced guild wars players that can give direct advice on skill balancing cause apparently they fail at it [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  03:34, September 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Less skills suck :< Must buildforge more. -- -Ch  ao  s-   08:27, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, if they do implement less total skills I'm actually rather worried. No one i can facepalm to when i see them using a *bad* skill-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 15:43, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm more worried about the fact that I actually lol'd to that.. :> -- -Ch  ao  s-   16:08, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

the thing is, they say skills will do different things in different situations, basically you'll just be abusing situations more than skills. ··· 18:26, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I've been thinking too. Say, a fire AoE build in frost circumstances, or shock spiking a boss in water. Depends on how they make the fire stuff though. -- -Ch  ao  s-   18:28, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Underwater areas exist, so I'm guessing a LOT of skills will have to work differently underwater. Think Savannah Heat or Searing Flames underwater? It would be more like an AoE Steam. What about Lightning Damage skills underwater? Presumably when you go underwater you get to breathe/move normally since otherwise all attacks and attack skills would have to be different. Can you get underwater minions? Et.c. et.c. True though, even with many less skills they'll have a job balancing skills with situations (if every skill worked differently in every situation you'd effectively have the number of situations times as many skills to balance. Even if not all skills worked differently all the time that's still a hell of a lot). 82.3.249.58 21:49, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Fire would likely be mostly useless underwater, but then again, it doesn't necessarily have to be so. Minions could do the Pirates of the Caribbean thingy, and walk on the sea bottom :> and I think you'll be swimming and will have limited lounges, and, if the game is made in a funny manner, the air runs out faster if you move much, but there would likely be breath-enchanting spells in the air magic line, and some races make it underwater longer than the others. Finally, I suspect that melee attacks lose much effectiveness underwater. -- -Ch  ao  s-   22:00, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * @Muffin, there already are experienced gw players telling them what to nerf but anet don't listen. --Crow 22:31, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * O wow wth is wrong with anet [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  22:47, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ironically, something decidedly old school owns the shit out of this. Shattering Assault punches this annoying shit in the cunt. It's another 1-2-3 chain, but if you're a shitter like I am in RA, you bring critical defensese. I don't use an IAS, because the only viable (non-retarded) one you can use is Flurry, which fucks Shattering's damage. Critical Eye, and maybe Rush. Dash really. Assassin's Remedy and Critical Defenses. And shit all over those R/A's.


 * Of course no one will listen, or others will go, "DUH NO SHIT U DUM NOBLEUR." But that's my counter to this, for the average melee playing person. ~ Big  [[Image:Big sadface sig.PNG]]  sysop  05:36, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * DUH NO SHIT U DUM NOBLEUR LRN PLY BUILDWARS![[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]]<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">uɐɟ <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">ɐʞıd  <font color="#FF0033">o <font color="#000000">^_^ <font color="#FF0033">o  <font color="#996600">¸ <font color="#FFCC00">« <font color="#FFCC00">` 06:27, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * That would work if you weren't a dozen times more likely to face a Virulence spiker in RA than an R/A, which is stupid and sad. Also, no matter what, 3 balanced rangers still win RA so hard - got 10 consec when I dropped in with them as a FC Prot with Channeling! :> ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 20:00, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's RA, so it doesn't matter. You can run anything and as long as you get a decent healer, you win. Tbh, I ran a R/A with Temple Strike the other day (yea, I know I'm bad) and it was just fucking funny. Bad pvp is bad. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:22, 9 September 2009
 * You don't need monk in ra? you just have 45 players with wtfOPskillz who rape theother dual monk team in 1 minute coz they're stupid crazy domoges and have res sigs Exo Oo 20:55, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, while you can counter them to an extent with your Shattering Assault, your helpless monk that gets wtfraped in 3 sec by interruptspam cannot.
 * Meh, I actually spawned in a RA group with 2 R/A and one R/D Escapes. I was a monk but I did no healing at all. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 04:20, September 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * I was Shock Axing against 3x R/A and 1x A/W. We lost bad, and I was ½ afk. -- -Ch  ao  s-   08:24, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

in other news, dual VoR faggotry > this, but that probably has something to do with the fact that VoR punishes you for playing the fucking game. ··· 19:31, September 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * called it :/ in the meantime, they've nerfed any pressure a sin can put out--Relyk 02:10, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

According to Linsey, they're nerfing this tomorrow
. Took them long enough :/ <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:56, 16 September 2009
 * the guy who posted it is an utter retard, but lololol for nerf confirmation -- -Ch  ao  s-   18:06, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * pretty much. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:13, 16 September 2009
 * Aww I was gona run this in my new pve ranger that i made >: [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  22:53, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * PvE/PvP Split imo ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  22:58, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * dont be bad and run that in pve, there are much better options there... -- <font color="Purple">Angel <font color="Blue">us Evertonangelus.gif 23:08, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Like barrage? that gay bad boring bad boring extremely boring barrage boring skill? err no [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  23:10, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * ye a split would be nice, spamming 123 is more fun than just spamming 1 [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  23:13, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, a ranger with daggers or a scythe is infnitely better than a bow in general pve. Lolbuffs like orders and SoH make anything in melee incredibly broken. Life   Guardian  23:16, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * I prefer daggerz [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  23:21, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * meh, i guess it depends on the situation. i'd really prefer the escape scythe over escape dags in pve though. but seriously, fuck pve. -- <font color="Purple">Angel <font color="Blue">us Evertonangelus.gif 00:37, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * It really doesn't depend on the situation. Plus escape is a terrible elite in PvE. Run wounding strike or something. Life   Guardian  00:58, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * it really does depend, but whatever. and im confused, werent you just talking about running excape scythe in pve? -- <font color="Purple">Angel <font color="Blue">us Evertonangelus.gif 01:08, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, i think i misunderstood your original comment. I took it as you saying that running daggers on a ranger in pve is bad, but i think you were trying to say that running this exact bar in pve(with escape) is bad. Which it is. Life   Guardian  01:18, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * correct -- <font color="Purple">Angel <font color="Blue">us Evertonangelus.gif 01:23, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, time to archive. Escape ends on hit and Db is 8 sec recharge. Finally.Ur Just Jealous §§§§§§§ 00:51, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Put meta back, hundreds of people in RA are still running it without noticing, then saying ? to how they die so fast.Ur Just Jealous §§§§§§§ 00:54, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Put it back to archive, this sucks now (or make it pve and change a few skills) [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  01:19, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably archive though [[Image:TheBrand1.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">The Brand <font color = "Black" font size = 1>Pure Primal Rage. ''' 01:32, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

About time too -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  01:43, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

lol -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  01:46, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * lol, im a tard triple stance, only excuse was its Friday arvo ;-P [[Image:TheBrand1.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">The Brand <font color = "Black" font size = 1>Pure Primal Rage. ''' 04:47, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Frosty you need to redo speed boost because storm djinn's haste sucks from energy loss. http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build_talk:R/A_Flashing_Blades_Ranger --Extreme Zer0 03:39, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually it's not that bad on a sin with4 e regen [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  03:39, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

if you're talking about the haste build, it's still bad because skills are gonna cost you 5 energy on sin. On ranger it's 2 energy per attack, put on zealous daggers if you like. And screw kiters because if they just run in circles, cut them off lol... --Extreme Zer0 03:47, September 19, 2009 (UTC)



--Extreme Zer0 04:36, September 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * here is something new. The hex spell Shadowy Burden will slow down your kiters at agro range (or flag runners if you want), thrust them with Black Mantis Thrust for a nice cripple, and in the case of monk you can rupt their cure hex/condition removal on the spot.  ::Flashing blades makes up the block of both Escape and Lightning reflexes and this build uses only attacks with none to 1/2 second activations.  Fox fangs may be a more suitable choice because of the recharge time of 3 seconds compared to Wild Strike's 4.  Also I've got my ranger at 39 energy from 5 radiant insignias and 3 attunement runes so energy management is not really a problem until you get far into the fight.  Someone else test this build please?  Same attributes as build on page. --Extreme Zer0 17:07, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Problem is shadowy burden has a 15 second recharge, so if your target blocks or removes the hex, you have to wait that amount of time to be able to reliable train opponents, unlike Escape which was renound for being able to switch targets is seconds, which is what made it so amazing along with the lol damage. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  17:53, September 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * You do know that "no activation time" means normal attack, not instant? >.>" Wild Strike is slooow. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:55, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * but in the second they take to cast the hex spell you can spank them with mantis. --Extreme Zer0 21:31, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Stop
with the spamming of minibars, please. This page looks utterly horrible. -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:09, September 19, 2009 (UTC)