User talk:Innoruuk/Team - DoA Xinway

Intro
Hey guys. Welcome to my newest creation. This one has a bit more potential than my last scheme, but that's because UWSC Ritway wasn't timely enough for you die-hard permas. It wasn't to make you look bad or make conventional speedclears look bad, and it certainly wasn't competition, but it was an alternative for people who like to play stuff other than a perma. In this case, DOA is an elite area, and in the case of Foundry, there aren't TOO many builds which can succeed for very long there. This one has been tried and tested, but now I need you, the PVX community to give it a whirl with me so that I can get a winner out in the spotlight. Whadda ya say? 03:44, September 28, 2009 (UTC)Innoruuk
 * Highly guessing this is for normal mode? Life   Guardian  03:46, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * Check the minor edit box and quit flooding rc please. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 04:01, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, this is capable of doing HM, and sorry about that with the minor edits and stuff. Blame other ppl who are grammar nitpicks. I only did revisions up to 10:00 PM on Sunday. 05:03, September 28, 2009 (UTC)Innoruuk
 * Hard to believe that you can spike down a Ki in HM by wanding, even with Nightmare Weapon. Life   Guardian  05:10, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Hence the spirit spammer. It can be done so long as you bring at least 1 interrupting skill from those optionals. Warmonger's Weapon is preferred due to the perma's high attack speed, but it depends on what you can muster. 11:49, September 28, 2009 (UTC))Innoruuk

Run?
I'd like to take a run with you as the perma. Pm me in game. Grazden The Healer. --Graz The Healer 00:25, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

it says DoA, does that mean it can do a Full run or just Foundry?
 * I'm assuming it should be moved to Foundry Xinway --Shazzy diddles 06:09, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

It is actually capable of clearing all of DOA HM, but couldn't we all agree Foundry is the hardest area. I prefer starting there on this build and ending in Stygian Veil. Let's face it, with this, once out of Foundry, you're home free. Innoruuk 10:30, October 1, 2009 (UTC)Innoruuk


 * Look mama, I can too -- -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   10:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)--  -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   10:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)--  -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   10:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)--  -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   10:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)--  -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   10:37, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Trappertrappers?
-- -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   20:13, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) is this bad?
 * 2) is it necessary?
 * 3) can I run it in TA?
 * 4) can the bars be improved
 * 5) can I well and/or trash it yet?
 * 6) <3?

A: who are you? B: why are you being so rude? C: what is TA? D: no you can't trash it because no one can yet vet, and there is no reason to trash it in many people's opinions. As per can the bars be improved, yes, by people who choose to use this setup. This is what works for myself and several teams who have tried it. Do what you want with the individual builds, but do not sit here and throw garbage at me please and thank you. Innoruuk 21:13, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Dont worry about Chaos, Inno. Hes just trying to troll. Keep improving the build until its ready to vett. Gringo 21:14, October 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. It's almost there, but I need people to suggest stuff so I can test it. Another skill you could bring is Pain Inverter for the Torturewebs seeing as how much they like to spam fire magic. Innoruuk 21:30, October 1, 2009 (UTC)Innoruuk


 * I was dead srs about it. Why does you signing show 2x Innoruuk? Also, I wasn't indicating it's bad/good/anything, but trappertrappers and this whole build is weirdness. -- -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   21:44, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Which apparently Jake agrees on. -- -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   21:44, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

How do you no know what Team Arenas is? O.o--TahiriVeila 21:38, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, this has NOWHERE near enough damage to kill in HM, let alone nm--TahiriVeila 21:38, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well trappers do i suppose, but i guarantee you wipe in rooms 2&4 in foundry 7/10 times. Plus you're going to have a hell of a time in vale.--TahiriVeila 21:40, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Veil actually is pretty easy for trapper teams to do. especially with a perma to control aggro with.-- Ikimono "...And my axe" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 21:51, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Perma will get wrecked by hungers and trying to pull for lords + underlords plus pops in trenches cuz there's no infuse/ party heal in this build =\--TahiriVeila 22:27, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * you pull the groups just like you would normally in a trapper group, only you have a perma to do it...there is no reason why it would not work in veil. Though the lack of a party heal in the build is concerning to an extent.-- Ikimono "...And my axe" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 00:44, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * works if you have the right sweets and dont feel like pulling too bravely. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 00:53, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sweets, hah, no need, just flatbow, or have you never watched Stygian trapping done by the pros? I do support dual-trapping in Stygian on my sin. The pulls are plenty easy without sweets or cons.Innoruuk 01:01, October 2, 2009 (UTC)Innoruuk
 * No but I've never seen it done slower than 2 hours either. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 01:23, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, 42-47 lifestealing from nightmare Weapon x12= about 520 dmg. Add in a Ymlad or Warmonger's Weapon and the Perma's attack and Anur Ki is down. Ruk is the only real healer left. Also, considering the tanking ability of Xinrae's on top of Protective Spirit, wiping will be second to impossible. Especially if you get a Spirit in the back and at least one person uses Essence Strike once in a while. You could do any number of things to increase energy gain, damage, or decrease enemy survivability. Unfortunately I can't take a film on my comp, but I can guarantee you this build can clear ALL of DOA. The Torc'qua end fight is a bit of a bitch due to the monk boss, but that's it. Innoruuk 21:59, October 1, 2009 (UTC) Also, I sign like this because I can't figure out how to code it like you guys.
 * You're going to run out of energy in no time flat. And you're lolcrazy if you think that that sin isn't going to pop in ~10s against city boss. All your damage is slow and even with warmongers you're never going to interrupt monks in HM doa, all of their spells are 1/2s or less =\--TahiriVeila 22:26, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Torc'qua is the only place where energy can really be an issue, because as stated in the build artical, Xinrae's Weapon costs 5 energy and recharges every 3 seconds. And, remember how much faster the perma is attacking in addition to double strikes. Or just use one Ymlad and eat the Ki. You could use Technobabble and daze him to make it easier too. As long as the perma uses his attack skills often enough in Torc'qua, he can keep up his energy. And you always have the emergency 30 energy staff. Yes I mean 30, insightful staff head, enchanting wrap, and the inscription for 15 energy-1 regen. You just have to be watchful.Innoruuk 01:09, October 2, 2009 (UTC)Innoruuk

how quickly
does this clear DoA? Shazzy diddles 01:51, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't. it's complete theorycraft and is way too slow and has nowhere near enough heal/rez/damage to work properly--TahiriVeila 02:25, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * DPS is incredibly lulzy considering pretty much anything in DoA can take someone down to 1/4 health in a single attack/spell, and this has no big healing. It's abs terrible and should just be welled now XD--TahiriVeila 02:28, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * he said he tested it already--Relyk 02:50, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * didn't see that anywhere, looked like he was still getting people to try it. Anyway, it's slow as all fuck if you could even get it to work. Old obbyway would be faster than this =\. That's completely ignoring the fast that it would get rolled instantly in HM since there's jack shit for healing besides xinraes + ghostmirror. Can't rez fast, and as soon as something is rezzed it'll die and take the rezzer with it. it's just a terrible concept--TahiriVeila 02:59, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * It has been tested (Just not by PVX members because they're lame and don't want to hassle with making an account :, you doubt the killing power because you've never seen it done in practice, and you don't need extreme healing because of A: lifestealing and B: Protection. Are we even reading the same skill bars? Also, I think you fail to realize that a GOOD perma, a GOOD tank, shapes the enemy party to his/her own party's needs/wants. You put the Ki in front of a spirit wall, add Nightmare Weapon and a YMLAD, it's gone. A lot of crap adds up to total damage, and considering there are 8 open skill slots in which you can put anything from healing to damage spikes, you can run this as fast or slow as you want. Pain Inverter for instance works swell against Dryders. 420 life stolen via Xinrae's every 1.5-3 seconds depending on whether or not someone is using ebon battle standard of wisdom or you get a 1/2 skill recharge. If you doubt that it works, but you've never done anything to disprove it via field tests, then you can't just sit there high and mighty and say it fails when it's been tested and proven. Every aspect falls into place except energy management, and that simply requires use of one's brain. Ya, battles in Torc'qua will be slow, but almost never will anyone die. I'm not gonna invite a new fight on an old subject, but UWSC Ritway was/is the same way, slower, but near 0 chance for absolute failure. Actually, since you res with pretty much all of your energy, you'd just have to be stupid to not hit yourself with Xinrae's and then top with Protective Spirit. It's not as slow as you think. Take a spirit spammer and a perma into UW and watch how fast lvl 32 Aatxes get ripped apart. You're just not used to a defensive AND offensive build of this type. You can't lose more than 10% which is 40 max, then you can only lose 5% and you steal 80 hp from the enemy which damaged you, every 1.5-3 seconds. Yes the stupid Dryders have natural regen, but hello, spirit spammer with armor of unfeeling and painful bond. If someone brings Pain Inverter as an optional, it goes even faster. The build is as strong as you make it. Innoruuk
 * It's slow as all fuck. there's no way you can do a full run with this in hm in under 2h. thus it's useless. why don't you get that if it can't beat times other builds do (when those builds are easier + safer) that your build is inferior and there's no point in running it? =\--TahiriVeila 03:13, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Except it's not slow, you just think it is. And bull crap can anyone clear all of doa in less than 2hrs without the old Ursanway Team, and I ran that for a long time. I'd wager my best time so far was 2 hours and 12 mins. I'm just gonna ask this much, do any of you who are trashing my build actually run spirit rits or demi-tank rits on a coordinated team which can communicate and adapt to unexpected problems? And, if you haven't tried a completely and totally original, how can you say it doesn't work? How is anyone supposed to get ANYTHING posted on this site when all you do is bash? I've looked through the team builds including the wells, you ppl really seem to hate ritualists unless they're healers or support spirit spammers. If you are a decent player, you can play a rit like you played the old warriors combined with a touch necro, just without the touch. Someone other than the apparent admin speak up here. Innoruuk
 * WTF current record for DoA is like 38 mins. A completely inexperienced team can do it with cryway in 1h15. Go back to kiss with your bad builds and ignorance plz--TahiriVeila 03:34, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * And rits are warriors + touch necros wtf are you on about? Plz stop being an immature 15 year old and realize when your build is simply outclassed. You don't have to physically test a build to realize it's inferior. Those of us who have finished maturing our frontal lobes can use our experience and knowledge of game functionality to assess how a team will opperate without actually playing it. This one sucks =\--TahiriVeila 03:37, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Fine, you have your apparent record set at 38 mins (Ursanway.cough.) Stop saying it's a bad build, because it's not if it can win. Is it slower than consumables? Yes. I will have an official timeset for you tomorrow by six. Vetting procedures are banned until then. Innoruuk You cannot honestly say you've ever seen anything along the lines of a Xinrae tank however. You don't know how it works, because you've never even attempted to use this. Everyone knows how to use Deep Freeze and FOC and COP. Maybe I'm a little defensive, but you guys don't make it very easy. I have dealt with each issue respectively, and nowhere in all existence of PVX history has anyone even attempted to incorporate Xinrae's Weapon into a build. For once buildmaster, you don't know how something works, just admit it.
 * You're so incredibly ignorant. --[[Image:Jaigoda_endrant.jpg|/rant]]  Jai  writes a  lot . . . 03:47, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * do you even know what cryway and manlyway are? zzz--TahiriVeila 03:49, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * also, it's not that hard a concept to understand. It looks like the rits put prot spirit on themselves run into agro range and spam xinraes which is a lolbad way to kill XD. Also, you've been on pvx for all of a month and apparently have never even looked at another build on the site other than the two you posted, since there's a dozen or so (pve + pvp) bulds that use xinrae's weapon =\--TahiriVeila 03:52, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * tbh you can heroway DoA and get a better time methinks. As in with 2-3 actual players. --Shazzy diddles 04:34, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

courtesy of lau


<3 --TahiriVeila 03:53, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * Then how do you want me to prove you airheads wrong, because I'm beginning to see the circle-jerk here, just looking at build authors. You STOLE and just modded EVERY build for Urgoz from past creators like Ozzen Di Wizard. Most of the HA builds are ripoffs of the originals. You freaking admin are out of control. No wonder most people hate this site. You can't post anything that doesn't involve SF that won't get bashed or stolen. What are the people with 4-year-old chars from prophecies supposed to do when they can't be used for jack ne more? You don't throw away a 40-title char with several sets of elite armor away. If all that can be accepted now is permas with a couple builds on the side, the game isn't fun anymore. "Run me here. Do this mission for me. Speedbooker looking for actually good player to cover my sorry ass." Be nubs. I don't care. Tell me how to prove that ALL of your claims to this are completely incorrect, or tell me how to put this into my userspace. Innoruuk
 * Well for starters you can't prove us wrong b/c we're right =\ Secondly you need to grasp that no one "owns" any build and thus they can't be stolen. Putting together a build doesn't make you a good player, being the best at playing the most efficient build makes you good. That's what pvx is about: providing the most efficient possible builds b/c most normal people like playing the best they possibly can. Not using subpar builds b/c they can't be fucked grinding a new sin/me/ele. So if you wanna make bad builds to keep in your userspace fine. But pvx build space is for the BEST builds, not this crap.--TahiriVeila 04:01, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * Tl;dr pvx isn't for making up builds, it's for recording what are known to be the best builds--TahiriVeila 04:03, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, so then why keep half the shit builds which don't actually work all that well that ARE still stored on PVX? Also, this build is MINE to post in testing when I deem it ready to do so. If the only people who rate it are friends of yours and Feya, then any build I make whether or not it's faster than conway perma copout will fail. You two specifically have it out for me at this point. Stop wasting my time and yours. Tell me how to put it in my userspace, because obviously admin can't be trusted with jack shit on this site. Innoruuk
 * (ec a fuckton of times, but..) If you somehow created a build that is faster than a meta SC build, it will be vetted into Great, period. However, those chances are miniscule. --[[Image:Jaigoda_endrant.jpg|/rant]]  Jai  writes a  lot . . . 04:07, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to grasp the concept that no build can "belong" to anyone. Once you've figured that out you're welcome to try and post another build, if you think it's more efficient than anything else out there--TahiriVeila 04:09, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * See, you think that the BM's (build masters, not admins) have something against you, and they kind of do now (like they do against most new people), but it's only your fault. You have been nothing but confrontational and annoying from the start. They are only against your builds because they are inferior to other meta builds. And there are so many terrible builds coming through PvX all the time that most of the PvX'ers have given up on being nice and polite. It's just the way of things here. --[[Image:Jaigoda_endrant.jpg|/rant]]  Jai  writes a  lot . . . 04:12, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * Then my final question for you is this. What do you do for people who don't particularly care to run conventional invicible forms of chars like necroes, eles, monks and permas? How are they supposed to get anywhere in the game? The ability to actually achieve in Guild Wars has been forever lost unless you can give me an answer to that. Maybe my builds aren't the fastest, but they allow people to do stuff on characters that they would not have been able to do otherwise. By the way, Kanaxai Focway, You could cut that time in half if you just put in one Searing flames. Everything down there is weak to fire. Innoruuk And I believe Feya threw the first punch, and not very kindly either. If you are going to say something is wrong, say how to fix it. Your parents would be so much more proud of you. At least I give a fellow human a basic respect from the beginning.
 * In a build like your UW Ritway, there isn't much point in making suggestions. There's just a fundamental problem with trying to quickly clear UW with rits. --[[Image:Jaigoda_endrant.jpg|/rant]]  Jai  writes a  lot . . . 04:21, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you looked at doa, fow, or uwsc builds? Eles, mesmers, monks, and necros all have a place in DoA FoCway. Manlyway needs rits/ranger, wars, nec, permas, monks. Paras are need for porogons in bogroots and several other runs. Read some of the builds for speedclears. There's no profession ('cept maybe dervs) that can't participate in most of them. you just never took the time to do your research and assumed that nothing but permas are useful and created really bad theorycrafts. Why should Lau tell you how to fix your mistakes? Stop trying to blame other people and take on some responsibility damnit. From the start you've been nothing but intolerant to people trying to help and now you're telling US that WE'RE the problem? GROW THE FUCK UP and learn how our community works before you come here and spew shit at us you santimonious bastard. what woudl YOUR parents think about your complete inability to learn how someone else's society works before joining it, and then telling them that everything they do is wrong? When you learn some TOLERANCE, RESPONSIBILITY, and INITIATIVE you can talk to me about pride. You've just gone and made it personal, and that was a BAD idea--TahiriVeila 04:24, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose i better throw the last one too then. I must say its very ironic how true to form that first post was really. There's 3 major flaws with your plan for the deep: 1. shitterflames was replaced by cryway about 2 years ago 2. they're not weak against fire, this isnt pokemon, 3. quicker than this? good jokr. If you dont want to run conventional builds then dont come to a place which stores conventional, widespread meta builds... - Athrun Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 04:27, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

By conventional I meant only the invincibuilds. You shouldn't be able to avoid all damage or all of a dungeon. Do explain the fundamental problem with clearing uw on rits, because honestly I never encounter one now that my friends in GOE actually pay attention. Hm time decreased to 35 mins now, and still showing much greater profit than sinway, but back to point. You do realize that none of these teams would be possible without an invincibuild? Well, they are, but that would actually require work. BTW Bogroots in less than 15 mins on a balanced team, no lie. 2 rits, 2 eles, 1 interrupt mes, dagger perma, and 2 ZB monks. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. But no one wants these chars on their teams (eles and necroes and monks yes) BEFORE these areas. You can't deny this or the fact that now we have a surplus of invincibuilds and no one can put a decent team together now. No one knows how to run the old, good builds. It just seems wrong that you can skip a whole dungeon and just fight the boss. If you can't kill everything, you don't deserve the reward. Maybe it's just me, but it makes your efforts feel worthless now, ya know? Innoruuk
 * I agree with some of the things in that post. Sometimes I wish that I could go back and play things like B/P to clear tombs of the primeval kings :< such good times. -- Drah 04:38, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * did you not notice that i said rits, mesmers, and eles are the backbone of most SC teams? And it takes a lot mroe skill, tactics, and pllanning, to avoid fighting than it does to cspace nuke through things =\--TahiriVeila 04:40, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, we're fortunate that anet are terrible skill balancers and terribly slow at changing things and have terrible dungeon designs. This has always been the case and will always be the case, we dont make builds on the chance something may be nerfed in the future. If you can get an Armbrace in 3hours using one build, what kind of retard is going to choose to spend 7 or 8 hours for the same reward. Maybe you haven't realised, since you're oblivious to most things, that GW is a very dead game and you'd be generally very lucky to find a team for anything at all, ever, if teams werent at least partly standardised and as easy as they can be. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 04:44, October 2, 2009 (UTC)