Archive talk:Team - GvG 5/3 Split

No flag runner....Which means eventually you WILL be dp'd out. Bad Derv build. Bad Split Team.  Beast 194  (talk ) 22:08, 6 November 2007 (CET)

I'll get to the flag runner thing when more people bitch about it but whats wrong with the derv? XvivaX
 * i agree on the need of a flag runner. DP hurts baed. 76.19.223.231 16:46, 11 November 2007 (CET)

On your split team, you have 2 warriors and a monk with return. Do you really want to shadow step right into the middle of the enemy? ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  22:27, 6 November 2007 (CET)

Its more for when your leaving the base and is extremely helpful on Burning Isle. Also if you need to use Return its because the enemy is on you not the warriors. XvivaX
 * Note on that, don't rely on that you will come in burning ilse. Burning isle=usually a split fucker, so modding your build to that ftl. And btw, if using return on your warriors, you're just more in frontline so more risk to get pin downed / snared / w/e. -  [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]Unexist  19:27, 14 November 2007 (CET)

For flag runner, you let your flagstand dervish or ele flag. Putting a flagger in a 5/3 split ftl. - Unexist  21:16, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * Thank god somebody else understands that. So the flag runner issue is over.

XvivaX

Oh and btw, you need draw + mending touch on your split monk. So mutch cripshots around... - Unexist  10:05, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * Ok well it seems no matter what I put as the split monk people complain so I'm open for suggestions on the build. XvivaX
 * Well, WoH is actually better then zb, simply because it's also gift-like heal for targets above 50%, and not immediatly wasting 10 energy if interupted. We in BG run 3 woh's to be honest, it's just leet. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]Unexist  21:19, 19 November 2007 (CET)
 * I feel it's important to point out that you effectively can't run Signet of Pious Restraint on a WoH bar . You don't seem to have SoPR on your ZB, so either go WoH or get SoPR. --Edru viransu //QQ about me /sysop 02:23, 20 November 2007 (CET)
 * I'm a little confused as to where SoPR came into all of this? XvivaX
 * Well, for one thing, you have a two warrior split without a non-adrenaline speed boost or a ranged snare, and for another, SoPR is amazing. --Edru viransu //QQ about me /sysop 13:57, 20 November 2007 (CET)
 * I had a none adrenaline speed boost and was told that I should replace it with rush so I guess I'll switch it back. And I never said SoPR wasnt amazing i was just confused because nobody else had mentioned it but if you really think I should make the Monk Mo/D I could do that.XvivaX
 * Untill you die as monk, which goes easy with it. You might
 * hmm what? XvivaX

Monks
They will/might be changed after this week of skill testing/balancing XvivaX

The ZB is terrible. Either run veil or reverse, not cure. You don't have RoF or any small prots. Replace a warrior with a ranger. Don't run siphon on the derv. Healing Ribbon is terrible here. Take infuse, and RoF on both monks. Signet of Rejuvenation isn't that good either. — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 07:26, 10 November 2007 (CET)

I just posted what I observed the guild running. And like I said the monks are going to change. XvivaX

less echarge more rush on the war, people who come to pvx to get their builds usually arent good enough to use it as a cancel. — Skakid9090 17:47, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * Good point...Owell. XvivaX
 * It's split man, pvx ppl can't run it anyway, since it's all about the tactic. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]Unexist  14:32, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * Well your on pvx right now so whats that mean. But other split builds got voted good so obviously some pvx people can run splits. XvivaX
 * You know what I mean. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  10:21, 7 December 2007 (CET)

Changed echarge to rush. Split Monk has been changed since I understand why people may not like/understand the build I originally had. Fixed the WoH monk. I'm not going to swap a Warrior for a Ranger on the main bar but I will put in another variant. And the Derv will not change because Siphon+Rending is a great combo and is great against Monk and Ele flag runners. XvivaX

WoH>ZB in nearly every way now.--Victory is <font color="black" face="arial bold">yours 21:22, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * Nerfed today again.. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  19:28, 14 November 2007 (CET)

Since WoH got its healing lowered Im keeping ZB on the split monk but there is a WoH in variants. XvivaX

That HB bar in variants is horrible. WoC? No Other? No decent self heal? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 10:18, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Flagstand group
I don't like it, the dervish bar is so ftl. Pious Haste > Dash, siphon speed ftl since you got a mind blast with freezing gust. Mind Blast + Ineptitude mes is kinda gimmicky, rather have a additional warrior instead of either one of them, or you will fail at killing in flagstand times. I suggest instead of the ineptitude, since it got nerfed today anyway, and snares are pretty nice for forcing morale. Still needs lots of work -  <font color="Black">Unexist  19:31, 14 November 2007 (CET)
 * Oh, and double aegis fails in split builds. They'll usually send war + ranger back, which is just aegis for one warrior... - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  19:34, 14 November 2007 (CET)
 * Dash > Pious Haste. But yeah siphon is baed. Ineptitude did get nub'd, I dunno about its current viability tho. And Aegis will def be needed if the ineptitude is dropped, or the stand team will be wiped. - Rawrawr  19:38, 14 November 2007 (CET)
 * Dash and Pious Haste both work good its personal preference. Ineptitude Mesmer is going to be changed to what exactly I dont know. Whats with all the hate on Siphon+Rending but it will get changed just for votes. And the monks are being worked on right now I just need to figure out whats working best. XvivaX

Where is your hard rez ? Maybe change Dervish's second profession to Ritualist and replace Resurrection Signet with Death Pact Signet.
 * It'z a split build, you just don't die. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  10:06, 17 November 2007 (CET)


 * Now I see why they always split in GvG! Split=no deaths! Wonder how the games ends if no one ever dies...? <font color="#DA04FF">G OD L IES <font color="#DA04FF">T alk 20:45, 20 November 2007 (CET)
 * If you die in a split, it's because you weren't watching your radar closely enough. It's the same thing as dying while Frenzied for a warrior; it only happens if you aren't paying attention. --71.229.204.25 20:48, 20 November 2007 (CET) all the usual caveats apply
 * Yep. If you start running before the other group gets there, fighting against 3 man + archers = you lose. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  14:28, 25 November 2007 (CET)

Hexbreaker just doesn't seem worth it on the eles, i'd say change to E/Rt (on at least one of them) and bring a hard rez--Goldenstar 02:58, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Ya I've been thinking the same thing for a while most likely it will be on the B-surger because the Mind Blaster doubles as flag runner so Hex Breaker is helpful XvivaX
 * Mind Blast also happens to be extremely easy to divert if you aren't running Hex Breaker. Kabu To 22:28, 4 December 2007 (CET)
 * It's harder to divert if you're not bad at the game and can cancel skills very well and keep a good eye on the mesmer =). Anyway, I think you could use splinter and ancestors on the bsurge.  You would have to drop the ward and magnetic surge though (losing magnetic surge isn't really a loss though).  It's just hard to justify not having splinter + ancestors', since it's so good. Pluto 15:04, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Hex Breaker is staying because its on one of the flag runners and its for snares as much as it is for diversion. And it's actually extremely easy to justify not having splinter+ancestors because this is a split build and the flag team is based on holding ground and surviving not getting the most kills possible so the ward is much more useful for that. And magnetic surge is basically the same damage on an enchanted target as Lightning Orb is just with the chance of missing. XvivaX 18:48, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Magnetic Surge is bad. Also, if you are running a split build and your stand team is not built to kill the enemy stand team, you are doing it wrong. It's kinda like how an EDA build sounds like a decent blinder to someone who doesn't understand what blind is used for. Split builds with ultra-defensive stand teams are the EDA dervs of split builds. Using hex breaker for anti-snare was a much more valid tactic(almost no one did it, though, because it's too situational and not much use in its ideal situation(oh no, my ice spikes/blurred didn't hex you! now, I just maintain freezing gust on you while you can't do anything) and certainly not worth going mesmer secondary) when water eles were the flagger build. Now, why bother? Against many teams, it will just be for diversion or even do nothing. Your stand team would greatly benefit from a splinter and ancestor's on the bsurge, because that would give you a lot more pressure ability. If you can't take advantage of what the enemy team sends back to deal with your split, you shouldn't be splitting. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 21:18, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Magnetic Surge is not bad just misunderstood... And I understand what your saying about Splinter+Ancestors vs Ward. The thing is that most of the people that come to wiki looking for builds arent going to be the best players out there for the most part so having higher defense while still having killing power is good. I dont expect a team even in like the top 500 to run it with the ward infact they should know better and run with Splinter+Ancestors. And Hex Breaker still serves more then 1 purpose on the build and its not going to change. XvivaX 21:54, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Fair enough. But Magnetic surge is still bad.  If you really want a skill that takes two seconds to cast and do lightning orb-like damage, you should probably be running... (you ready for this?) Lightning Orb.  Needing to be spiking an enchanted target for the extra damage doesn't make any sense, because as a general rule, you shouldn't be spiking enchanted targets, especially without shatter.  Extra damage that only triggers if the target has spirit bond on them is counter-productive.  I'd run magnetic surge maybe if it were a 1 second cast, and even then lightning bolt might be better still. Pluto 13:12, 8 December 2007 (CET)

Assasin split > This build
Sorry but 2 sins + monk splitting are 10 times more deadly than 2 warriors. No shadowstepping, no spikes (well a bit) Himynameisbobbyjoe 22:57, 4 December 2007 (CET)
 * Warriors do huge damage, although the shadowstepping is a valid point on at a number of halls. 76.102.172.202 00:47, 5 December 2007 (CET)
 * Assassin split isnt better its just different. Both of them have advantages. Sins have more upfront damage but are easy to counter because all you need to do is interupt their chain with a Dshot or KD. With the Warriors its about survivability and ability to stay in the opposing base longer without as much worry of being countered quickly. XvivaX
 * Altho i still dont think this is that great, I saw it being run in the Rawr tourney. Himynameisbobbyjoe 00:47, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Reno is a shit gimmick. This requires a fair bit more skill and has ALOT more stand power. Reno relies entirely on having to split. - Rawrawr  00:58, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Finally somebody completely agrees with me XvivaX 05:51, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Lol what does ReNo haveta do with this.. anyway.. Just run paraspike :p. Cause clearly Paragons Make you win.. until izzy nerfs them. Himynameisbobbyjoe 01:20, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Dual Assassin=renoway basically. Anyway paraspike is epic fail in GvG because all you need to do is fall back and split and they cant do much. And also what you said about 2 assassins being more deadly then 2 Warriors is a joke. XvivaX 02:18, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * I must play with shit warriors then... But dont say that two crippling gankers arent more deadly than warriors... Warriors need some time to build a good spike. Sins just have 1 shot.. So then again i just contradicted all i said..... *press's alt + F4* 02:25, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Exactly they just have 1 shot thats it and if it fails they often do to. XvivaX 03:09, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Why you just don't go thumpgay or bspike, it's even more deadlier >.< - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  10:24, 7 December 2007 (CET)

Ratings
I'm just curious as to what is so bad about this build. I understand its not as fast as a sin split but this is a much more durable build so your not losing much its just a different style of play. I'm not saying it deserves a 555 great rating but why isnt it even good? XvivaX 16:41, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Nerfs
A few of the builds here have been nerfed (The Mind Blaster for one) and need to be replaced/redone. Gaze Of Balthazar 21:55, 23 March 2008 (EDT)