Build talk:W/any Warrior's Endurance Hammer

Hmm, trying to pick an IAS for this makes me understand why this failed to get through vetting twice before. Spamming twitch attacks with a hammer is pretty solid damage though. Having a surplus of energy may also make the Tiger Stance variant viable-ish (though lacking in flexibility, so I didn't mainbar it). -Toraen (talk) 05:20, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * For consumables users (either essence or alcohol) drunken master is hard to beat in most cases, could probably add that as an optional. But else? Well, ias skills are somewhat balanced in having a nasty downside each. I'd say let the players pick what fits their style and team most. --Krschkr (talk) 11:29, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Drunken master was already there! Well, frenzy is not main bar anymore. --Krschkr (talk) 11:36, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

The Longer the Chain, the Weaker It Is
Forget Withering Aura. --Saxazaxx (talk) 20:30, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Unarchive?
The two builds mentioned in the tag are at Provisional-Great rather than fully vetted and this build didn't fall into Trash before archival. This indicates to me that we probably just don't have enough differing viewpoints to have outright archived it, and the abilities to use energy skills more freely and have a 3rd utility PvE-only skill make this still a worthwhile build IMO. Toraen (talk) 19:41, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Agreed, I think it could use some love too in the optionals, some are very dated.


 * This is the bar I consistently run:


 * This build absolutely deletes single targets. Deals insane DPS on par with dagger spam (better vs single targets, believe it or not), and while not having as good AoE damage, spams AoE 3s KDs like no tomorrow (bring Withering aura on your N/P). YMLAD is also 100% mainbar worthy. You can get 4 Renewing Smashes in reliably with it, 5 if you time it right using 33% IAS. Crude swing is optional, as you are spamming renewing smash so often that you rarely have time to use it. The only time's it has been useful is when I screw up the combo and find myself locked out of renewing smash for 30 seconds, but even then the build has very respectable damage. You don't need it for the adrenaline either as 4 renewing smashes + Prot strike means you're basically all up and running again for another yeti smash + Renewing smash combo chain. YMLAD being a 10 second recharge is up very often too, and also serves nicely as an interrupt. Energy is obviously never an issue, and I use a vamp hammer too.


 * Build just needs an update/re-write, and its very much a 5/5 build; very fun too. I can make the needed edits when I get a chance. Willarddog (talk) 21:18, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


 * No one opposed the archiving proposal back then. The page is back. Regarding the build you suggest: It will only work with consumables, as you need a 33% IAS to squeeze four renewing smashes into a regular knock down. Also, it's three seconds AoE knock downs. Don't forget your stonefist insignia. --Krschkr (talk) 13:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Correct on both points, thanks. I fixed the KD time. I normally run Drunken Master with alcohol, but I understand that not everyone does. Frenzy or Burst of Aggression should do the trick in its place. Willarddog (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * By the way, I'm fine with your suggestion to move crude swing down to a variant because I feel the same way about it as you. It is an excellent skill, but more often than not spamming that renewing smash (+ protector's strike) is even more useful. Having one of the two energy based knock downs in the main bar would work really well to emphasize the build's key strength. --Krschkr (talk) 21:57, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * One point I'd like to bring up is that the mini skill bar I posted above plays very differently than the bar on the mainpage. The bar I posted (As already acknowledged) absolutely destroys single targets in mere seconds (with AoE knockdown spam to boot); You can cycle YMLAD and Yeti Smash endlessly over and over with no downtime to keep blowin people up. The current build on the mainpage plays out more like an inferior version of either DBS or SWS. This is evident when you read the ratings page. I suggest a vote wipe, a re-write tag, and potentially a move back to testing. Willarddog (talk) 05:19, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think it plays out so differently. It just has the energy based knock down mainbarred, which is currently only a variant. Regarding the votes: None of them would be invalidated with a build change as we discussed it. --Krschkr (talk) 11:04, 21 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I disagree. The playstyle for the older build was spam AoE attacks (whirlwind, crude swing, yeti smash) and do a renewing chain when possible. The updated bar is 100% concentrated on spamming renewing combos over and over and over and over. You can cycle them endlessly blowing up enemies. That's the point.


 * With regards to votes, let's look at them:


 * === ChieftainAlex's vote: ===


 * If you've got to bring a warrior, I feel that the Axe build is better.
 * His opinion, thats fine. Albeit, it's based off of a completely different mainbar and playstyle than the updated bar.


 * Tested this build in two areas (today's ZB and ZM):
 * Oola's Lab: Everything has blind/block and missing attacks on a Warrior's Endurance bar is no fun, so you'd pretty much have to mainbar Asuran Scan. Plus the golems screaming blue murder ("Fear Me!") dropping energy didn't help. Frenzy is probably a suitable IAS for this build, but requires microing ST rit hero to do its job so you don't get invoke lightning'd.
 * Every warrior is basically mainbar Asuran Scan. Moot point.
 * Also states that energy denial is a counter to Warrior's Endurance, which is laughable. Expanded upon further below.


 * Destruction Depths: Ran with Dwarven Stability + Burst of Aggression. Enchantment removal (Destroyers of Thoughts: Shatter Enchantment/Hex Eater Vortex) completely gimps your attack speed and you're left with a hammer warrior with no IAS. Yeti Smash is kinda cool but you need to bring either a condition skill or some plentiful conditions on your hero; Renewing Smash sucks if you can't KD. Quickening Zephyr also makes Warrior's Endurance extremely painful when your IAS is inadequate.
 * Runs a enchantment dependent build in an area with lots of enchantment removal, and complains about it, lmao?. Run a different IAS? Moot point.
 * Complains about having to bring a condition, which is very easy (withered aura on a hero). There are strong and valid variants (Hammer Bash, Club of a Thousand Bears, or Aura of Thorns if you want to bring your own condition).
 * His vote makes sense in the context of the vote based off of the old bar, as you attack pretty slow with now IAS (why would you not have IAS though?).
 * However, his point here is completely invalid with the updated bar. Renewing Smash is net positive 1 energy gain, and if you run a zealous hammer, 2 energy.


 * On the plus side, if you don't get blinded/blocked/kd'd, then its nice and satisfying when you do ball up foes. Hammer damage is obviously good if you can hit them.
 * Again, run Asuran Scan? Again, the updated bar is not about hitting balled up foes with AoE attacks. Moot point.


 * === Krschkr's vote: ===
 * A berserk hammer warrior which doesn't rely on for great justice. The secondary ias compresses attacks effectively enough to warrant for a great single target damage and quick yeti smash recharging even against single targets.
 * Valid
 * Doesn't combine well with some popular mesmer builds
 * '''and is susceptible to interruption/unexpected blocks/blinds/misses, so -2 in universality.
 * Asuran Scan??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 * Asuran Scan??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


 * For the record I think that @DeletedUser40310540's vote is fine. Willarddog (talk) 17:37, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Overhauled the main page
Drew Inspiration from the WE axe and SWS hammer pages. thoughts? Willarddog (talk) 21:19, 22 April 2021 (UTC)