Build talk:R/any PvP Concussion Shot

Discussion
MW is one of the worst elite ranger skills in my opinion. This build should be redone because pin down is horrible unless you have a powerful melee and favorable winds is horrible. If you really want your arrows to move faster or to do more damage use Experts focus or read the wind. Concusion shot and d-shot is great. MW is horrible though. Try a different elite and take out out pin down and Favorable winds and this can be a great build. Emeraldstone
 * I was with you up until you said Favorable Winds is bad and suggested using something besides Apply. --71.229 22:55, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
 * FW is bad, except in co-ordinated team ranger situations. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 22:58, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I disagree. FW lets me hit people from two radars away off the cliffs at Etnarian Keys. --71.229 23:04, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Read the Wind gets the same results, and can be used more than every 60 seconds, and can't be killed. Seriously, a spirit in GvG will get blown away or interrupted no problem, same for HA and it's not mobile enough for AB.  As for this build, nice thought, but poor execution.  If you want to Daze as a Ranger, either go BHA so you can use preparations that cause pressure (degen), or go Smoke Trapper with all kinds of conditions.  76.89.81.150 00:06, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * lolwut? use frenzy + Nat slide 0.o that way you can drop pin down for something else...idk what though 68.193.221.34 00:08, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Optional is for Flail or Mending Touch. You'll have to test if that's managable with energy or not. Otherwise something like...

First optional is a prep, either Read The Wind, or if that's still too heavy on energy, Expert's Focus. Second optional is... Well, optional. That's the best I can make out of this. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  07:32, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Looks like you liked it. :) - Star Seeker  |  My talk  15:28, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

spelling
at least spell it right for the title. you can find the correct spelling in the description for the very same skill you use in the bar. build looks solid at the moment, feels a bit like cripshot...dazeshot the new meta?--Kkagari 10:40, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Mending Touch in the Main bar
--The Gates  Assassin  12:02, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * ...would make it an R/Mo. The Variants section does need some more work though. - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  12:08, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * How is it now?X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14 12:17, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Just needed "blind" and "daze" removed from counters now that it's all touchy-feely. - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  12:21, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Ew apply poison... Use experts focus since you have a 25 energy costing attack so you need to balance it. (Experts focus can be a variant)Emeraldstone
 * Wrong 13 expertise, and Prepared shot is enoughX [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14 12:41, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * But then again Expert's Focus is a variant. Its pretty good IMO, but i like apply better.X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  12:43, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

'spread daze'? Railin 14:07, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Expert's focus activates before expertise, the difference between a 22 energy skill and a 25 energy skill is nothing. after expertise--Goldenstar 14:08, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

GoD and Master Gladius
Both compare this to BHA correct? BHA has a very bad trait which is "it moves very slow" as quited by wiki. It moves 3 times slower than a normal arrow (regular "move slow" arrows move 2 times slower). The arch for BHA is huge and disrupting a foe with it is nearly impossible. Concussion also applies daze longer (14 secs WHOA!) You dont need to revote, but reconsider if u want.X  14  16:17, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Then walk up to them. It can be maintained constantly and costs 10 less energy. No one interrupts with BHA, they use it for Daze. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  16:19, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Look at the recharge too. Usually gvg has more than 1 monk and RA has more than one caster. BHA is 15 second recharge and concussion is 5.  15 second recharge sucksX [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  16:22, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Monking against BHA is ezmode tbh, and I suck at monking. --71.229 16:23, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * All you do is kite. Its so easy to get away from.X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  16:28, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Why do you need a Whole elite to ensure your target is dazed. If youre a good ranger, Concussion is more than enough.X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  16:41, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Elitist or not, he has a point you know. This thing has potential. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  17:14, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * What? BHA or this build. (sorry im like half dead)X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  17:27, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

0-0-0
Seriously does this build deserve like 1.6 overall rating.X 14  17:30, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * railins vote is meh...conc shot is only unreliable if u spam it like a fool.--Kkagari 19:49, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Unreliability of the daze isn't worth ''so much energy and an elite skill to make up for the cost. ''

I'm srry but isn't that saying basically if you suck, this build isn't good?--The Gates  Assassin  22:31, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * yeah, im saying railins vote should be invalid--Kkagari 22:40, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Scottie doesnt think so. I posted it on the Noticeboard already and he said theyre all valid reasons Q_Q.<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  22:41, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Unreliability of the daze isn't worth so much energy and an elite skill to make up for the cost. WRONG IF you are a good ranger and good at interrupting, It IS worth it. Think about it like this... concussion IS a reliable interrupt, therefore resulting in a Reliable condition. BHA is NOT a reliable interrupt, but it IS a reliable daze. BHA has 15 sec recharge, Concussion has 5. WOW!<font color="black" face="hyborian">X 14  22:48, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * well people dont really use BHA for the interrupt, but thats beside the point. i think unreliability should refer to things that have a natural % chance. such as blocking. a skilful player would daze with concussion 100% of the time.--Kkagari 22:57, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes. And a skillful player will miss with BHA 50% of the time (Monks know how to kite you know)<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  22:58, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

God, Master Gladius and Ralin
Basicly youre saying they build is bad because it isnt simple as Broad Head arrow. If you suck at interrupting you dont play ranger then. With expertise and Prepared, Concussion shot is not even close to a problem. IF this build is too hard to use then dont trash it. Youre 1.6 and 1.9 overalls make no sense, please discuss.<font color="black" face="hyborian">X 14  22:38, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I think i get what they are saying now. Can you interrupt RoF? If a monk sticks to its 1/4 cast time spells its impossible to daze them. Thats still a shitty reason, but i think thats what they are trying to say.--[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  22:52, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * No but you can interrupt aegis, WoH, Anything with 1 sec or more casting time then all their skills take 2x longer to cast.<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14 22:56, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * And what about eles and Necros? Too hard to interrupt meteor shower or spiteful spirit?<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  22:56, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * =) no one uses MS. I'm agreeing with you lol. There are a ton of 1 second cast time skills that you can pick off. --[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  23:19, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * In ab theres a lot of Meteor Shower. Also like every ele skill is 2 sec casting time or more.  Monks use a lot of 1 sec casting time skills.  Heal party, Divine.. somthing, Heaven... somthing, Aegis, LoD.<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  23:24, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * In AB people smell, and you don't need to daze right there. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  12:18, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

does crossfire play GW or just theorycraft on wiki all day? <font color="#033361">Railin 17:01, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd go for the last. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  09:54, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

dont spam it like a fool and this build works very well
Ill put this on the page.<font color="black" face="hyborian">X 14  22:50, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

The three 1/9 overall ratings..
I posted on their talk pages and they wont change their vote. Suggestions?<font color="black" face="hyborian">X 14  08:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Adminz?  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 08:43, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Scottie says their valid and to post on their talk pages. GoD, Gladius, and the other voter doesnt know how to play ranger than.  Whether its a 10 energy interrupt or 25, its still an interrupt.  Just because concussion is more energy doesnt make it harder to use than this<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  08:48, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Why is this better than BHA? <font color="#033361">Railin 08:49, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * It's not.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 08:51, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Cons to BHA


 * Too slow and easy to kite.
 * 15 second recharge.
 * Unrelyable interrupt.
 * The BHA build doesnt have FW or a snare to ensure it hits.


 * Cons to Concussion shot


 * A lot of energy


 * Pros to BHA


 * Ensures Daze on a Target


 * Pros to Concussion Shot


 * Ensures daze on target IF you are a good interrupter
 * Longer daze duration than BHA
 * 5 second recharge for more spammability to other casters
 * Interrupts a foe easily<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14 08:53, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

The ratings are indeed correct, however they don't reflect their opinion. If BHA is better that doesn't mean this build deserves a 2 in effectiveness, but it should rather get low universality rating. The build is obviously effective therefore giving a 2 in effectiveness is wrong if the only reason you can provide is BHA is better. Also they should stick their stupid innovation rating up their ass considering changing that and voting accordingly to "is/will this become meta". God box   09:15, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes thats what I meant, thanks Godly. BHA is better than Concussion, true, but 1 effectiveness makes no sense at all.  You dont give Signet of Midnight mesmer a 0-0-0 because Blinding surge can blind too.<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * You're forgetting the worst part of BHA, you need to position close. With that and the slow activation time it's horribly easy to dshot. You don't have that with c-shot.  —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  12:18, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Shogunshen and Rapta
I do not disagree with your votes at all. I disagree with the 1.6s and 1.9s. Obviously if two BMs vote higher than 3 other ppl their votes are wrong. (GoD, Gladius,)<font color="black" face="hyborian">X 14  15:47, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Because they're BMs doesn't mean they prove everyone wrong with whatever they say. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 16:04, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * But they make better points than the other 3. The other 3 suggest BHA is better than this because of daze, and BMS say because it lacks versality.<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  16:05, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Barbed Arrows
Instead of apply? Cheaper, and this build is tough on energy... 16:02, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Its not rly tho. Prep shot works well.--[[Image:Xfire14siggy.png|110px]] 17:41, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * The more spam the better? —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  09:53, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * How about 12+1+1 in Expertise, 8+1 WS and 10+1 Marksmanship for better energy management?-- FlameseekerMage  17:22, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * yup the specs are sub-optimal. if i calculated rightly, there's 2 best spreads. 12+1+1 exp, 9+1 both marks and wild. or 12+1+1 exp, 10+1 marks, 7+1 wild. you get 1 less energy from prep shot but save lots more using other skills. 129.109.0.102 17:21, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Another option for option slot 1, dazed synergizes w/ needling shot
Generally, you're going to be in a team situation, and the degen of poison + damage from teammates often means that Needling Shot's condition for spammability is fulfilled. When you Needle a caster in this sort of situation, you can essentially shut them down. Can we consider adding Needling as another option? Thefinalwars 19:08, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
 * God, why? Needling is absolutely terrible, it's much preferred to have Pin Down or Debilitating Shot. If you wanted to trigger the daze, switch to a vamp shortbow and auto attack - it will hit 1 second spells under the effects of daze without utilizing a IAS or shitter skill. 128.119.156.39 19:28, 8 October 2011 (UTC)