User talk:Snow White Tan/Team - Pressuring Refrain/Archive

Discussion
This still needs some work, but I like how it looks. But I'm no expert PvP'er, so I don't know if this'll work. And that's where YOU come into the equation, because YOU are an experienced PvP'er, and a HA expert in particular, and YOU wish to comment and suggest improvements. Go on, YOU know what to do. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  18:06, 16 August 2007 (CEST)

Warriors need a better IAS than Flail, as the only snares you have are an easily removable cripple. RoF would do well on the monk, with no enchantments (and GoLE would be better than Channeling imo). The DA chain seems wasted, as everyone spams attack skills and only the monk would really benefit. Some other sources of DW would help too, and the warriors might even want to pick up "For Great Justice" for Dslash spam. Tycn 12:18, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I know Flail isn't the best IAS choice, but I couldn't think of a better one when I wrote it. Cripple should be quickly covered with burning because of the constant GFtE spam. I know the Monk needs work, and I might make it a prot/healing hybrid for RoF and Infuse. As for the DA chain... how the hell didn't I notice that tiny bit of text that says "ends when a player uses an attack skills"? /doh. Any suggestions as to what to replace DA with so the Paras still provide partywide, non-enchant protection? Also, using For Great Justice would be adren overkill, and not possible because of the Rangers elite, Infuriating Heat. With IH up, D-Slash recharges itself. I can see the problem of having DW on the Paras (Sever/Gash instead of Galrath and Sun and Moon maybe?). In any case, thanks for your input. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  12:31, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * SoR/SoP zergwayesque paragons might work, considering the durability of the team. Tycn 13:03, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I changed the Paragons and the Monk a bit. Now Para1 has SoP, Para2 cripples and Para3 dazes. What about the Ranger? And can You suggest a better IAS? - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  15:13, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I would use Frenzy. BTW, IH doesn't let you spam Dslash continuously. Tycn 15:15, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * You're right, it doesn't. But I still think "FGJ" isn't needed, because of the spirit, and the fact that the Warriors are using Furious weapons. And I thought of Frenzy, but I didn't know what to replace on the skill bar for a cancel stance. I know Rush would be a good choice. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  15:21, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

The wars should have Fear Me instead of GtfE (GtfE on paragons is decent because gons can use it to aid in a spike *and* get energy, warriors are barely increasing their autoattack damage with it). The wars' damage is decent, I think a well-timed snare will be sorely missed (i.e., compare the randomness of crip anthem to Cripslash), but targets running shouldn't be *too* much of a problem. The paragons need spear mastery. I'd suggest a 12 command/motiv, 12 lead, 11 spear (11+1,10+1+1, 10+1). The purification one needs some kind of instant energy management (I'd suggest gtfe instead of purifying finale, once you remove gtfe from the wars). The crip anthem needs Make Haste for relic runs, and another attack skill; he doesn't need SYG with this many hard targets in the party, take that out for spear of lightning or vicious. Also, three copies of sig of return is overkill; one is fine, two is pushing it. The Stunning Strike guy has too many attack skills to really be effective - put WY and shields up on him with 10 tactics, he doesn't need command for anything. Stunning strike is meh; smoke trap would be a better dazing skill - the 10 adren cost really kills it, even under IH. The ranger should really be a smoke trapper. IH isn't good - I tried one of skuld's IH builds with a bunch of backbreaker wars, didn't work out very well. The biggest problem is people killing it, and the cast time makes it easy to interrupt once you're in battle. What's the point of a blight monk? He's definitely the squishiest member of the team, and will be the first and primary target of other teams. Him carrying infuse is pointless, because the first person to be spiked will be him. Healing touch is meh... if you're dead set on running infuse from a monk, give him LoD. Black Parades handles quite well with a no-monk build (4 screamway wars, 4 paragons). One of the paragons is the primary infuser, one of the wars has infuse as a backup - it's hard to spike down a war or gon after they infuse. Hope that helps :P - Auron 02:18, 18 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Thanks for the long advice :D. But I think you're missing the point of GFtE on the Warriors. They use it for a quick charging, instant ending adren shout which they can spam alot for Purifying Finale and Finale of Restoration. With IH up they can alternate between Dragon Slash and Sun and Moon slash and use GFtE between every attack, and this results in constant 55 point healing and condition removal, meaning whatever healer (I might reconsider the Monk) doesn't need to worry about them as much. But I might replace GFtE on one of the Warriors and bring FM instead.
 * I'm not too experienced with Paragons, so I'm gonna take your advice on some of the skill changes. When you say 3 Sig of Returns is overkill, do you mean replace with res sig or replace with another shout/attack skill?
 * IH recharges pretty quickly for a spirit (30s), so should it get killed it can be summoned again soon enough, at which point the Command Paragon should have enough adren to use Song of Concentration. This of course doesn't stop a PD Mesmer, but what does?
 * The purpose of the Blight Monk is hex removal, but considering what you said here, I think I'll replace him with an Expel Paragon or something like that.
 * Again, thanks for your response :D - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  04:14, 18 August 2007 (CEST)
 * If you call for song of conc and song isn't interrupted, putting the spirit down shouldn't be much of a problem. And in all honesty, IH isn't a priority interrupt, but if the other team has a PD, the PD will be camping the ranger anyway (to keep nr/tranq from getting down).
 * On the paragons; yeah, replace one (or two, your choice) of the sig of returns with res sig. The hard res should take priority (i.e., people with res sigs shouldn't use them unless the two hard ressers are being camped with interrupts or are dead).
 * I only really have one problem with using gtfe on wars; the only condition warriors will need off is blind, and if they're blind, they can't hit (and thus are unable to end gtfe); that plan is for naught. The sheer amount of shouts/chants from the paragons, however, do this job well enough; especially if you have Watch Yourself and Shields Up as additional party-wide shouts, shouts etc will be ending so often warriors won't have conditions stick. Either way, Fear Me is a better choice for the war bars... IMO :P
 * Bring Mirror on the paragon that might replace that monk; bonders aren't uncommon and aegises are still everywhere, and getting them off at the start of a match is a huge boon to the team. Also, include a note on this guy's section not to spam expel on recharge; only use it for critical hexes that must be removed (hex snares on a relic run, for example); this team build has so much party-wide healing and armor that it can tank through hexes without wasting much energy taking them off. - Auron 06:11, 18 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Changed the Paragons a bit, gave the Warriors "Fear Me!" and added a Expel Paragon. Paragon 1 is now in charge of removing conditions from everyone. Also gave the other Para's some energy management. Thoughts? - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  19:09, 18 August 2007 (CEST)
 * First gon still needs spear mastery and two attacks - imo, replace TOF and blazing finale with spear of lightning and barbed (or something). - Auron 02:54, 19 August 2007 (CEST)
 * But that would remove some of the pressure, as well as cover conditions for cripple and such. The team has high armor, so I could replace "TOF", but I'll keep Blazing in there and add some attack skills. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  05:44, 19 August 2007 (CEST)

Would love if someone would actually test it. I don't have the means to make a team like this though. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  17:12, 19 August 2007 (CEST)

Eye of the North skills
Could any of the new warrior/paragon skills be used in this setup? I'm thinking Anthem of Disruption, Hasty Refrain. Grapple can also be used, to cancel a stance (when bring frenzy) and to trigger "Brace Yourself!" for some added damage. Any thoughts? - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  05:46, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Anthem of disruption post-nerf would be hard to fit in, 15e for pretty much inestimable interrupts isn't worth it. Hasty Refrain is a possibility, not sure how to fit it in best. Grapple is meh, but you might want one copy of Disarm in the build (to stop enemy wars from linebacking your relic runner with KDs). - Auron 13:13, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Remove "FM!", move points to Strength and add Disarm (remove an attack skill?)? Or assign one/two warriors to Disarm? - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  13:33, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Keep FM imo, remove Galrath. Tycn 13:35, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Just put Disarm on one war, and designate him the linebacker-screwer-upper during relic runs. - Auron 13:39, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * OK, will do, un moment... - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  13:50, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Hasty Refrain is bad, drop it for Make Haste. Tycn 13:54, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Ok. Just liked the idea of an infinite speed boosts. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  13:56, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Hm, the only guy with points in Command already has Make Haste. Keep Hasty or change to other shout? - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  13:58, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * 2 copies should work, then you can maintain it almost constantly on the wars. Tycn 13:59, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * No, I meant the only guy with Command already has it, as in the other guys don't. Using Make Haste on any of the other paragons means either changing their builds or using it with low atts. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  14:01, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I see, the HR para doesn't have any command. Whatever fits in best, I guess. Tycn 14:12, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Back to "Lead the Way!"? - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  14:17, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Made some edits to the build, as suggested above. I kept Hasty in there though. - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  14:27, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * On second thought, I'll change it to LtW - <font color="#000080">(snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  14:31, 6 September 2007 (CEST)