Build talk:Me/Rt Healer Hero

looks nice, but i'd drop the death pact signet. It's just a horrible res especially in hm where you die quicker. And idk how the energy management is. If it's good then you could drop waste not want not as well ;) --Mednes
 * If you die really fast with a PI hero and some other shit you should probably go back to ascalon. Falrach 19:17, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Death Pact revives with near full energy, which means I don't need to retreat after one death. Obviously you can replace with Flesh if you're worried about the target getting spiked down immediately after rezing. I just generally carry a Dpact and Flesh in my teams because it works for me. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 21:06, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * good rule of thumb is fomf on healers, dps on everyone else; you only need one copy of fomf.-- Relyk  talk  04:14, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ive been running this exact build for months and it works really well. I use death pact as the res on this bar though. Always like to have one in the team at least, and for some reason my mes hero never gets targeted very much. Only thing I do differently, actually, is weapon of warding over PwK, but thats in optionals anyhow so.... lol --Jimmyjam 12:22, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I hear monsters pick the lowest armor targets. Maybe your mes has something to influence that. Threat might be low too. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 18:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

What's this compared to SS Resto, which got thrashed? Sjan talk  15:50, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Unarchive?
I see that this build has been moved to the archive for the reason outdated, although the skills used didn't get hit by any skill update. I guess the reason was the low popularity in comparison with necromancer healers and damage mesmers (given the low amount of mesmer heroes available), but this build is still viable; as a shutdown/heal hybrid it has a slightly different focus. I think that it still is a great build that should be featured in GWPvX. If it was moved back to the build namespace, I'd update it with User:Krschkr/Builds/11 (edit: update performed). --Krschkr (talk) 12:31, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was basically the reason I archived it, even though I put it forward. Just didn't see many people using it or even the concept after the 7 hero meta settled (I think I submitted this shortly after that update?). If you wanna unarchive and update, be my guest. Though a spirit will have to be mainbarred for the sake of Spirit Light and MBaS. Toraen (talk) 13:21, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, nice! I didn't even know I could move pages as a regular user. Time to wreak havoc! >:] But first I'll update the page a bit. --Krschkr (talk) 13:59, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Combine pages
Same with this one, we should just combine the pages (the other one being https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:Me/any_Psychic_Instability_Hero). ZStepmother (talk) 16:19, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I would rather remove the secondary profession skills from the other build, but if more people think that these pages should be merged I won't object it. --Krschkr (talk) 16:23, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The other one mainbars domination magic (both atts and skills) so a merge page would have a mostly empty skill bar which isn't ideal. And I will say that'd I'd rarely have occasion to take any of those particular secondary profession skills on the offensive PI build (maybe the command shouts). -Toraen (talk) 16:33, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * convos like this remind me that I’m torn as to whether there is much utility in saving isolated and context-less hero builds like those mentioned above. with the opportunity (and often the expectation) to synergize 3+ heroes at a time, recommending individual builds really misses out on the “the whole > the sum of the individual parts” that allows hero teams to shine --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Juniper real (talk) at 19:58, 11 September 2018‎ (UTC).
 * Well, if you want to build a new hero team, having pre-made pieces (that can be tweaked as you refine the team) to put together helps. Even just dropping a bunch of them together will usually create a passable build if you are limited in hero selection (and make sure to at least cover your bases w/r/t defense). Heroes can also be used to fill out a PuG (though PuGs for non-SC stuff are rarer nowadays) so sometimes you actually need a standalone hero bar. It's also very obvious that some of the pieces are very common across multiple teams. We could have multiple team pages list out a bunch of optionals/variants for essentially the same bar, but it's often better for the team page to just have a mainbar, and then a link to the individual page for variants. -Toraen (talk) 06:43, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * agreed, hence I’m torn :D Juniper real (talk) 09:58, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think that such pages usually make much sense. We currently have Archive:Team - Mesmer Hero Midline which is nothing but a combination of Build:Me/any Domination Magic Hero and Build:Me/any Illusion Magic Hero. We also had Archive:Team - 2 Ritualist Hero Midline which was but a combination of Build:Rt/any Signet of Spirits Hero and Archive:Rt/any SoGM Hero. There weren't changes which would specifically increase the synergies, just a few left out skills to avoid having the same spirit twice. Else it's just a copy&paste from other build pages, resulting in having the very same build twice in PvX. That's like making a page Build:Team - PvE Standard Hero Backline which is just a combo of the BiP healer and ST prot because those two work well together. Instead of doing that it would imo make more sense (but still be questionable) to add a single line to indivual builds in the notes section, mentioning that the combination with a certain build makes sense. But that would, if done seriously, result in a large notes corpus; why do domination and illusion mesmer work well together? Well, unless the domination mesmer runs panic there aren't noteworthy synergies: It's just: Both do their job well, one deals damage and takes out casters, one deals damage and takes out attackers. When making a note that the domination mesmer generally combines well with an ineptitude mesmer you'd also have to add a note that it works well with blinding surge elementalists or oldschool curses necromancers because they do the job of taking out attackers like the ineptitude mesmer does. There are cases in which it would make sense to make such team build puzzle pieces; I'd say that Build:Team - GvG Triple Monk Backline makes sense because about 90% of all teams run exactly this backline. Build:Team - 2 Hero Jagged Bombers is justified because those two builds are actually synergizing and don't make nearly as much sense without each other but don't form an entire team by themselves.
 * My opinion is that PvX should store complete teams and single builds, but not usual build combinations unless there's a significant synergy. It should be left to the visitors to decide which build they pick and with which they combine them. I'm sceptic towards giving more help than small notes like don't combine this minion bomber with a shelter ritualist. --Krschkr (talk) 15:34, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I was never really happy with those midline/backline pages existing because they were so redundant. When I was talking about "pre-made pieces" I was referring to individual builds (I was under the impression Juniper was too). I would totally be in favor of even just deleting the mesmer midline page, but archive is fine too if we want to keep it for historical purposes. I'm ambivalent on the PvP backline pages but they seem kinda unnecessary when everyone knows you take a heal, a prot, and (in GvG) a flagger. -Toraen (talk) 16:53, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Re: pve and hero builds: it seems we’re largely in agreement about the benefits of individual hero builds — they have their merits as potential pug fillers, they work generally ok in any balanced comp, and the redundant pages staging 2 semi-related builds together are not really adding much value. I think my only additional point was that I’m often disappointed to see good builds get pigeonholed as pug fillers instead of as synergistically combined into a 3+ hero comp. Recently i have seen some really creative 7h teams get rightfully trashed as they were ineffective, but at least they were attempts to synergize. I’m largely just dreaming out loud that I’d like to see some inspirational comps that thoughtfully use synergy between effective builds that gain additional effectiveness while grouped. As opposed to the current meta of combining “best” standalone heroes into 1 “2 x best dps + best prot + best heals + best etc” team. But maybe that’s really the best gw has got to offer :p Juniper real (talk) 02:31, 13 September 2018 (UTC)