Build talk:Team - FoW Manly Spike/Archive 2

NM vs HM

 * Whcich mode is this build meant for?--71.252.23.162 14:51, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * HM. A ndy 14:55, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Gokicakdogx2 updated each perma sin build because of the recent SF update
Each perma sin has been updated. I added shroud of distress and other defensive skills.

Any/W -100b :) for the lazy ppls that dont have wars
Optional= IAS

and its good, not needed, to use candy. 91.95.1.20 15:40, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * No. WHy have a different proff when warriors do it best?  ~  Short  ~  17:20, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * if ppls dont have warrior, or maybe got them in pre as i do >.<91.95.1.20 17:28, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Any/War mean : P/W or A/W or D/W (Or R/W) i hope...because i dont think Mo/W or Me/W work XD Light Athena 10:53, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ye ^_^ that's what i mean 91.95.1.20 14:55, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Only option available : the critical ninja from hell !
 * Oh cool I got that pile of sh!t in my userspace! Sins with swords are fucking manly right? I mean, no SF? Dream Traveler Haru 17:20, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Of course you will play only with a katana. Shields are for pussies. Hair Fetish Man 10:56, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Way of the Master is better than Critical Eye because with only 10 in critics give +23% and it stay on for 60 sec instead 27 sec..Light Athena 17:58, November 13, 2009 (UTC))
 * WotM can be shattered by mesmers and Critical Eye gives energy. Anyway, it depends on what you prefer : both are OK. Hair Fetish Man 14:18, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Guys, please use mini skill bars. If you don't know how, contact me on my talk page. This page was fucking ridiculous. Karate  Jesus  18:06, 13 November 2009

Also if you dont have a warrior, you've got 2 years before GW2 comes out - hardly short of time to make one. Failing that, just use one of the other 4(/5) professions used in this build. - Athrun Feya  14:55, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but people are lazyyyyy Hair Fetish Man 11:31, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Trust me, there is no shortage of 100b warriors.
 * I made a Warrior in 5 days (too long time just because i was looking for Armors, Sunspear elite and kurzik armo) so its better start 1 instead looking for anothers builds.Btw the best profession to replace warrior is SIN and with critical Hit deal a good amount of damage. Light Athena 08:22, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Glyph of Concentration or Unseen Fury?
People said for maintank they found using unseen fury easier to control kd and rupts. but does this apply to terra's 1 and 2?

Main tank
Can i just say ive never seen a pug use the main tank build on this page? Wouldnt it be much smarter to just use the t1 build without urals so not only can you mt, but back up t1 and t2. --B R O Z On Tour 00:58, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Can i just say you've never played with anyone decent? =\ Life   Guardian  01:00, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Promoting A/E is bad because 90% of retarded MT's use Stoneflesh, which is completely unnecessary and has a long cast time. Since most players are too dumb to do fancy pulls with bonds by using sliver, there is only one advantage to it, and it doesn't really save any time. A ndy 01:06, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Fancy pulls with sliver? :o explain plox. Life   Guardian  01:08, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Channelling is also a much less annoying method of energy management. - Athrun Feya  01:23, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * All Mts that played with me had Stoneflesh aura on build..first of all lot of pugs dont pick you if you use A/Me build,Second Stoneflesh is a good Anti-damage skills and it let perma stay between mobs without take any damage and that is good because main team have more time to organize attack.
 * For Energy Menagment there is Gliph of lesser energy that reduce the cost of Ebon Battle Stendard of Honor + Stoneflesh to 0..With A/E build you can use Sliver Armor and you can solo the wolf in forest and maybe that near rastigan too. Light Athena 15:28, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Really, we don't need more proof that pugs are bad. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 15:45, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol we not talking about pugs but skills that work better and safer...or its hard click 4/5/6 when mobs are balled?O.o....now a question...who kill wolf in forest?All main team..if yes need clear all area around wolf and this is a waste of time -.- (with A/Me build perma cant or you havent see the skills?No attack skills in that bar)..."Pull and kill the nearby wolf. The perma and warrior will need to Death Retreat back to the rest of the team." <<<No one do this,Perma just use Sliver and wolf die in seconds...Feigned Neutrality shut down if you use a skill and dont cover from all damage..Stoneflesh cover from all damage + trap damage..I juts mean,MT is not T1 or T2, he need pull and ball and need to not get a lot of damage..thats all, peace. Light Athena 16:22, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was talking about skills that are more efficient and effective which are unfortinately not used because bad players are bad (and your little speech supports this fully). A good team will spike and jump down in the same time it takes sliver to kill but the run will be sped up in general because permas aren't preoccupied with pointless slow-casting skills such as Glyph and Stoneflesh. So what if Glyph fully covers two spells? What about the rest of the skills you are using? Channelling is equally, if not more effective. Despite Feigned not reducing damage to 0, it does reduce it significantly and also heal, usually giving a net gain in health. - <font color="CornflowerBlue">Athrun <font color="CornflowerBlue">Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 16:41, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * First of all, a/me is faster because the pull is done before the main team finishes bridge. Spike also takes less time than dropping SF to get down. Second, you say you need defense. Explain to me how I can mt easily without stoneflesh, feigned or any heal besides dc and ee? Lastly, wtb grammar. Life   Guardian  17:03, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Bad ppl are bad with this build or with all other builds...so on this point nothing to say,you right..for other things i not agree..Gliph cover just 2 skills,ok you right 100%..btw you dont need cast all your bar so you dont need menage your energy..MT job is ball and put EBSoH, stop,so he use Paradox/SF/Gliph+ EBSoH and Stoneflesh Aura and his job is done.100b job ,after this, is spike fast (usually 1 whirlwind is enough) so MT dont need recast all again..The problem,the real problem, is that pugs need to be sure to made it, want skill to reduce damage and skill for cover other failer sins.(PS:im not american so sry for grammar :\) Light Athena 17:24, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically, a/e is fine as long as you don't bring stoneflesh. A/me is still superior though. Life   Guardian  17:54, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Just like to say, Light Athena. It is extrememly easy to indent, just one more colon than the person you are replying to. Ofc, I'm starting a new mini topic so don't tell me to indent. <font color="DarkGreen"> ~  <font color="DarkGreen">Short <font color="DarkGreen"> ~  17:46, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * All this to say that you have to take an A/E build for puggies or they won't understand what to do : "WTF ARE U DOIN ?! DIDNT U KILL THE WOLF ?! U NOOB !!11!1". That's why some of them are kicking death's retreat out for sun and moon. The thing I like about playing A/E with them is that I have the time to kill rangers in forge and wood spirits/spiders in forest. I just love PUGs :) Hair Fetish Man 11:31, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry but that is a different problem..if i play 100b i take all "normal" skills,Death's Retract included..if needed i can kill wolf and go back to rejoin main team so all ppl that say that dont really know the job..thats all. Usually MT take sliver to kill wolf(S) and "COVER" noob T1/T2 if needed and maybe team can still complete the run.I dont know why all thats problem on MT,A/E is common and a lot of ppl use it..it work?Yes, so stop..whats then problem?All Builds work good if know how to use it well. Light Athena 20:54, December 8, 2009 (UTC))

Jittes
real men use them. just sayin'. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  19:23, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * V strong vs dem berserkers! Life   Guardian  20:19, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Man ... do I have to sell my fellblade ? QQ Hair Fetish Man 11:32, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Manly Paras
So basically you sacrifice armor and emanage/faster recharge/condition removal(Air of Superiority) for the added damage from burning, which won't even be all that much since a W/A would deal more damage than a P/W with his sword. Or am I getting something wrong here and is the burning required for some mad hax tactics? And even if it is, we still have the main question to adress: does the burning really warrant swapping strong wars for homosexual paragons? 81.241.183.52 10:19, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, someones been vandalising the page. - <font color="CornflowerBlue">Athrun <font color="CornflowerBlue">Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 10:31, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * i think its a variant, however, noone will have a Para instead of a war making FoWSC groups--37er 15:18, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

MoP nec
is rigor mortis a good swap for defile defenses? 88.89.66.15 11:22, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

+++ The Blind Sabbath +++ Foul Feast needs to be replaced by Enfeebling Blood, 200+ runs and most fails are from scattering enemies that do massive damage to casters. Foul Feast barely helps considering there's 2 areas where there are conditions. - The Blind Sabbath
 * You failed as the mt? lol, so bad. Life   Guardian  03:22, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

11 Mins o.O
 11 mins is pretty beastly imo, builds used were: I'm sure the t1 could be a A/E but I was not on the run and don't have much knowledge of some of these builds. I was just on GWGuru and saw someone asking for the FoWSC record. Is this now the record?<font color="Blue">...::: <font color="Black">Fuz  <font color="Blue">:::...   Elite 4 is srs bsns! '' 14:54, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Manlywar:Swordsmanship 12+1+1 Strength=11+1 Tactics=5 Shadow Arts=4
 * Mop Caller:Curses=12+1+3 Soul Reaping=10+1 Motivation=8
 * Main Tank:Shadow Arts=12+1+3 Channeling Magic=12 Deadly Arts=3
 * Lightning Forest Rit:Channeling=12+1+3 Spawning=11+1 Command=6
 * T1:Earth Magic=12+1+3 Shadow Arts=12 Energy Storage=3+1
 * T2:Shadow Arts=12+1+3 Earth Magic=12
 * T3:Shadow Arts=12+1+3 Inspiration=12 Deadly=3
 * T4:Shadow Arts=12+1+3 Earth Magic=12 Air Magic=3


 * Sure the T1 can be an A/E, it only means you'll never get a 10 min full run, which we do have a shot at in the near future using this build variant. Feedmenow 00:30, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * We already know of these builds, because i created most of them :D. I'm the necro btw, in case you were wondering :p Life   Guardian  00:44, January 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Lol I rly want to know usage for this 11min builds. :P--ValeV 22:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

What is the theam format after feb. update? I know it won't be 11 mins but I am interrested.

Warrior Equipment
Ive been trying to learn the 100b build but i cant find any equipment information could anyone that got any information add it to the article??
 * Most of the mods aren;t listed because they dont really matter. You need:
 * Zealous or Vampiric sword (with 15^50, +20% damage vs undead/skeletons to maximise damage - otherwise a 15^50 and +30hp will do).
 * Strength shield, (+30hp if you like or +10 vs lightning/fire damage).
 * Sentinel's Insignia, vitae runes, superior absorption, minor swordmanship (on swordmanship headpiece) and minor strength elsewhere, superior vigor.
 * Detailed enough? - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 19:43, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes thank you :)

T3 FoWsc job
In theory 1 warrior does enough damage to kill mobs right? I ran with only 1 warrior and worked out fine, did faster run then normal pugs. I ran as i A/E sliver with IAU but seems that A/ME works fine to, although you dont need to kill the shepherds. so A/E works faster i think
 * This build is aimed at pugs, I think it is best if we keep anything more complicated off this page. <font color="Red">A <font color="Black">ndy 19:03, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * One war with splinter can spike any mob. The problem is that pug mts can't ball, pug 100b can't spike, pug mops can't call good targets, and pug rits can't put splinter on the warriors. Of course running a t3 is faster(a/me being the fastest option), but pugs truly cannot handle one war spiking. Life   Guardian  20:06, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * True but if you change the warrior build, so it doesnt have IAU but BUH he does enough damage, to even spike unballed mops. Just did run, 12 mins, could go faster. Even with A/E t3 worked out great. Had 4 pugs in group, which MoP and 100b were
 * More damage=/=more range. I'm assuming you mean 12 min mt? Life   Guardian  17:24, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * You could maybe mention the t3 and route, since its pretty well known now. Just drop the build and usage at the bottom and say something like "more experienced groups should drop a manly warr and take this" - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 19:00, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll get this done tomorrow :) but i found out something new to. Why cant you just kick the MoP out of the team. And put MoP on main tank? saves a spot for t3, and pugs can run with 2 manly spikers to? Wouldn't that be a nice solution? ^^

[build prof=A/N cur=12 dead=3 sha=12+1+3][Deadly Paradox][Shadow Form][Tryptophan Signet][Weaken Armor][Mark of Pain][Signet of Corruption (Kurzick)][Feigned Neutrality][Death's Charge][/build] something like this? got energy management, MoP, weaken armor, bit of everything needed. And problem with shard wolves will be cleared to cause you have T3 who does it. Ofcourse it's for more exp jobs? or maybe not cause of 2 manly wars?
 * Hmm you could. In fact, the spike works without MoP at all (and 2 warriors) since there's so much additional damage (but we like to keep a bit extra for pugs). The only issue you might have is with MoP recharge time, meaning you're waiting between groups (obviously this is an issue for very fast teams, who'd be the kind to use this build). - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 18:59, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't think that's completely true, till mobs are bolled it's surely will be recharged. Ofc you can switch out tryptophan signet for AoS, maybe for some recharge. Only problem could be in forge, but as you said, 2 warriors should deal enough damage, so + splinter, damage should be surely enough.
 * We could include t3 it in a build that uses a casterspike, as then we wouldn't need 3(4) players for a reliable spike. <font color="Red">A <font color="Black">ndy 12:37, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Think manly spike is a reliable enough spike, certainly with 2 wars. and Maintank can surely outheal damage with either feigned neutrality or shadow sanctuary so
 * Your opinion depends on one thing....how often have you pugged in the last few months? Life   Guardian  22:26, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even with a normal manly setup, i'm using a scythe as MT to finish the spikes ...<font color="Black">H <font color="Red">air <font color="Black">F <font color="Red">etish <font color="Black">M <font color="Red">an 02:27, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * <333, Never run into anyone else who bothered to hit shit as mt. Life   Guardian  02:30, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Guild teams use this site too and a lot of people do FoW a lot of the time, we should post but say; if your team is brave and strong (!) drop a warrior and take this. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 11:04, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Drop warrior or monk :o. Life   Guardian  11:09, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * When we start adding more advanced builds, we meet the problem that more than one build changes. T3 isn't as simple as just dropping the warrior. Spikes are painfully far apart if you continue to use the regular manly build, especially in forge. Changing the 100b build into something that wastes less time on recharges also causes you to have to change the MoP build. If you drop the monk, playstyle has to change or the rit needs to pack spirit light. Tactics that would take quite a while to explain would also have to be included for any of the builds to make sense. Life   Guardian  11:32, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure some of those changes are 100% necessary. Forge is the only place where foes are in groups near enough that you'd get a problem with recharge. And if people killed in groups containing 1 set of melee and 1 set of casters then it would be a lot faster, the chance of recharge is far higher (I really don't see the benefit of pugs scraping all the melee out and have 4 crap spikes after). If people are going with a t3 you'd expect them to be decent, so i'm sure the warrior would be quite capable of telling the necro to wait slightly and the necro actually doing so, in the unlikely event AoS didn't case recharge. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 11:48, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * All I'm saying is that the existence of a t3 is widely enough known that we should include it. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 15:21, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

And I agree, we just need to think about how to do it. The easiest option is just to say minor build changes may be necessary when running with a t3 or something, but thy might not really be enough. As for forge, 360 probably doesn't make sense because rits are retarded and don't use splinter weapon. However, with an exp mt, 360 is the best thing that you can possibly do in forge. It has to do with abusing eoe, wanding, and EBSoH. Basically, while the team is killing casters, I'm up top wanding all the rangers under 90% hp. Spike come on the melée, eoe clears the entire top of forge. Life  Guardian  18:37, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and it's not a short wait. You waste a good 2 minutes in forge running a solo war with the regular builds. Life   Guardian  18:37, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Want to start writing the t3 and usage for this build? (and just completely get rid of the utility monk). Then we can work out what to do with this one. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 18:44, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well...I don't really think that build should even be on pvx...It was never run by the masses, or even for a record time. By keeping it, we have a double standard. All these random idiots come and submit their fow builds, and we trash them and say there's no room, inferior to manly, etc etc. Unfortunately, this falls into a similar category. I don't mind writing it up, but that's my opinion on the build as a whole. Life   Guardian  18:51, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * It isn't double standards for two reasons. Firstly builds like Archive:Team - DoA Manly Spike shouldn't be here if you're going by those criteria (which, I hope you agree, is kinda stupid...). Secondly, the whole reason that was posted is because it technically is more effective than manly for the majority of groups (as you know, old icU records used several splinter rits). We explained Redways weaknesses quite thoroughly when the build appeared on PvX and all we've seen since are variants. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 18:59, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with the first point. It was actually run fairly commonly before shitterflames came around, plus it's just another variant of manlyspike, which is used by the masses. The majority of groups part in your second point prevents me from really arguing, because it can discount anything I say, but it's still iffy because it actually requires people to spike as a group. With manly, wars spiking together doesn't matter at all if your rit knows how to use splinter. Anyways, it was just my 2 cents, I really don't care. Go well/archive/delete the FoC build and I'll get started on the splinter spike. Life   Guardian  19:08, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * FoCway was the one which was used by the masses before shitterflames was. I might make a FoW caster spike, then problem is solved. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 19:20, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant the FoC FoW build. It was really never run, and is probably even worse than redway. I wrote up the t3 usage for the splinter spike. Look it over and improve grammar/go in more detail. Also, not sure how griffs will work with t3 splinter spike. Can 2 rits still spike shit? Life   Guardian  19:27, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * well if ppl wanna run this team this is a set up of new manly spike:


 * Terra 1: Does his job as normal, just leaves the shard wolf at the battlefield for the t3.
 * Terra 2: Different job. Terra 2 goes to forge, clears all psychical mobs (abyssals, warriors, rangers, shadow beasts) so that main team just has to kill casters (saves lots of time). Aftherwards he just does the normal t2 job. But you can ask the t1 to do khobay if you dont have enough time. depends, just talk with your t1 about it.
 * Terra 3: Runs to wailing forest, kills all worms with aggro of spirit shepherds (at 3/4 SF recharge, run away so you can cast SF safely again, then return and keep killing). If all worms are killed, you grab spirit shepherds aggro and kill everything in the wailing lord area, except for the wailing lord itself(!). When your done with that, you go to the battlefield and kill the remaining shard wolf there. When done with that, and if main team is not at wailing forest yet, you just grab aggro of shepherds, kill all the spiders, and ball shepherds for main team. Afther that is done, go take gryphons quest, and stay with gryphons.
 * Main team: just does normal job
 * Eh, having the t2 kill shit on top of forge is actually much slower, especially when using an eoe. Life   Guardian  21:26, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, T1 doing khobay. You know you've got a bad run when you need this. Piercing make me a cool tag. Feedmenow 01:48, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

EoE?
I know its cool and all but really? The damage is kinda lame to be honest. Winnowing would be better in my honest opinion x.x RASK! 08:09, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * EoE is stronger than 99% of people know :o. Life   Guardian  08:12, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * EoE can save 3-4-5? minutes in a run if youre MT doesnt blow. The lack of EoE is the reason why we got an 11 minute run instead of a 10 minute.. Uncle [[image:Feedmenow Sig.gif]]<font color="Grey">Dante  01:03, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't really get it. Sounds like its meta and thats all. Winnowing would add more damage and your mt shouldn't suck. I only say this because I run MT 95% of the time. But could someone put it as a variant since I'm in a mission atm x.x. RASK! 00:27, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Think about it this way. What if i was to wand something not in the ball under 90% hp as mt? and what if the mob was big enough, that when the spike happened, everything i had wanded instantly died from eoe? Top of forge and the bridge are 2 places where this can be used to full effect. I can clear every ranger on top of forge, by having the warriors spike the abyssals/beasts. Similarly, i can clear the entire bridge(except the 2 beasts that spawn after icehands are dead), by having the warriors spike the berserkers/banshees. Life   Guardian  00:52, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I have been doing fowsc as mop for awhile now and haved stopped using assasins promise. N/RT with splinter and signet of spirits works great. Yes but the rit has those i hear you say but at the split and after the rit has the griffs it speeds the kills up. Dont use ya spirits when the rit is in range and you are sorted. :P
 * Easier to just put EVAS and GDW on the monk tbh. If anything go n/mo for SoH and pewpew RoJ Life   Guardian  18:05, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're gonna change the nec why not just make N/Me with echo. 2 MoPs makes every pull a really clean spike even with 1 warr. If cool down is a problem bring air of sup. thats just my opinion anyways.JackdoesSCs 22:33, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

seperate
Would it be possible to have a separate builds for pug and not pug?Dr Rawr 20:44, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * In what way? The builds listed here can be run for a very fast time(14-15 mins) exactly how they are. You could drop a war and add a a/me or a/e t3, which would speed up the run. You could also drop a monk and add a rit or an a/me to clear what the t3 didn't. You could further drop the eoe and add a t4, which leaves you with the record bars. It's a delicate situation because there are so many stages of builds with varying times of completion, with each build requiring more exp than the last. Life   Guardian  21:20, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

EoE Ranger
Use Ritualist spirits to absorb damage, cause extra damage and kill leftover enemies after spikes in forest/parts of forge. Spirits can also block the door in front of Rastigan. If EoE is recharged, put spirits in front of door, and then cast EoE back a bit.

Wat, put eoe back for 50 more damage? theres only 1 abyssal to activate EoE you know? just leave it in front of the door--83.81.47.239 22:34, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are 2 abyssals and the lord...Plus, putting spirits in front of the door is stupid anyway because any warrior with half a brain can block the doorway. Life   Guardian  02:09, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, only rit and monk can do it. If ya need help, call Bob the Oni. <font color="Black">H <font color="Red">air <font color="Black">F <font color="Red">etish <font color="Black">M <font color="Red">an 14:54, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Update - February 25
So, some random people just said we should replace t1 and t2 with elementalists with obsidian flesh...--ValeV 13:09, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * hmm, that would've worked with the old obsi flesh but i'm not sure about the current one. still prolly does tho. - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 14:12, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

the build posted really works! i havn't thought so but after trying i must say it works, although it must be taken attention at skeletons rangers and their d-shot (killed as soon as spawned the 2 near the NPCs spawn in t1 path and was fine), abyssals and their knockdown (time IaU so you dont have to cast in its downtime). only done t1, i wonder how t2 can handle interrupts in cave. --Giorgevich 18:59, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Glyph of Concentration? &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic 02:33, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

When you pass the cursor over the skill which name i dont remeber(regen and blck if low health) it says shadow atrts at 4, but SF is 17, fix?--37er 10:47, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * what wrong with it? thats the value after cons are used. - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 14:24, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean the 4 attribute in shadow arts that shows the skill of the picture with a masked face, still dont remember the name... --37er (cant login now) --213.201.92.194 17:52, February 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's called Shroud of Distress, you lazy.--ValeV 19:31, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

You guys think that still possible?Yesterday i did a run...1h and 8 min to complete it, 2 conset..t2 dead for his fault, t1 dead on tower for KD+interupts,so main team had to help.Mt+T2 with a large amount of luck it still possible but T1 no sorry..need some changes.Light Athena 08:26, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Easily doable. Life   Guardian  08:31, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Guys Regarding the nerf i came up wiht and alternative and geus what it works :P

[build prof=Elementalist/Mesmer ear=12+3+1 ins=10 ene=8+1][Obsidian Flesh][Stoneflesh Aura][Stone Striker][Mantra of Earth]["I Am Unstoppable!"][Mantra of Resolve][Sliver Armor][Glyph of Concentration][/build] Earth magic should be 16 Inspiration 10 or 12 and energy storage 9 depends on how u rune it just give yourself an complete geomancer armour set and all dmg should be 0. :P and u can maintain it permenantly with cons. This is a handy advise though when u encouter beserkers u kill them or get a quick ball so the mainteam can spike.

Greetz Swift <font color="Red">Swift <font color="Red">talk  09:33, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Add it as an alternate or a variant, so that people get the idea. Bonding MT is terribly awkward, as they aren't used to being tied to the UA. I'd love to see an independent tank again. 141.165.171.82 02:49, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bonding isn't a necessity. Pugs are just so bad that having bonds up makes it so they can't really die. Life   Guardian  02:55, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I keep dieing due to interrupts on the T1 run, so I was wondering how are you guys doing this? The only way I can think of it to let your health drop below 50% and use the 75% blocking from Shroud of Distress to cast spells. I haven't try this yet, but is this the right way of doing it? Note: I am doing this solo for practice--72.226.12.134 15:08, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only place that's really dangerous is at ghost camp. Easy solution is to just sliver down the impalers, but if you pop a pie or rock candy, you can usually avoid rupts. Count on stoneflesh being dshotted while you're at ghost camp btw. Life   Guardian  20:38, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Glyph of lesser energy needed? -> better glyph of concentration?
hey guys, i was wondering if terras really need the "glyph of lesser energy". old perma cycle was "deadly"@15nrj + "SF"@10nrj = 25nrj new cycle is "SF"@5nrj + "stoneflesh"@10nrj = 15nrj and to be safe w/ "glyph of concentration"@5nrj only = 20nrj! so why will you fricking need the "glyph of lesser energy"?! imho exchange it for "glyph of concentration"! greets :)

Essence Bond
So I noticed the update to the UA build, but won't it make more sense to use Essence Bond on the Main tank rather than Blathazar's Spirit on yourself?--72.226.12.134 02:40, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Essence bond performs differently than Balthazar's spirit for some reason. Balthazar's spirit provides a more reliable energy gain. I believe that if the damage taken by the tank is not physical or elemental, the monk will not receive energy. Life   Guardian  02:46, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * -.- "Balthazar's spirit" + "Life Bond" on MT! "Balthazar's spirit" on UA himself! Will be triggered by "Life Bond" => decent energy gain => spam "Heal Party" to help your MT! ffs -.-
 * Ah, that makes sense ty. --72.226.12.134 14:10, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

1RV on Terra #1
Discuss it here, stop changing the page until then. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor 06:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * He gave up an hour ago. Life   Guardian  06:44, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

This FoWSC Build still working?
Just wanted to make sure. -- <font color="#33ff33">Flashing <font color="#333333">Turtle™ 21:33, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course. Life   Guardian  21:58, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Dragon Leach and Impalers
How to handle Dragon Leach now ? After i kill priest and take book, I usually get interupted by Dragon Leach or Impaler, couse i must cast both Shadow form and stoneflesh aura.

78.1.166.91 09:30, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Try to lure Menzies out of his high spot and kill him without aggroing the dragon lich. For Impalers, try to avoid aggroing them too. Otherwise take a glyph of concentration or use a red rock candy. <font color="Black">H <font color="Red">air <font color="Black">F <font color="Red">etish <font color="Black">M <font color="Red">an 13:26, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Count on Stoneflesh being dshotted. Simple solution to impalers is to just sliver them down. Dragon Lich can be a massive pain, but as Hair said, Priest can usually be lured down from the hill. Second option is to just pop a red/blue rock and outrun the bitch. Life   Guardian  02:56, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

== Energy --

I'm having trouble maintaining energy as T1. Any advice? 75.142.10.108 08:40, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Use a blue/red rock candy and switch glyph of concentration for glyph of minor energy. Or use apples. <font color="Black">H <font color="Red">air <font color="Black">F <font color="Red">etish <font color="Black">M <font color="Red">an 08:53, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Use Armor of Earth instead of Stoneflesh Aura? AtomiK 23:07, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hit shit with a zealous scythe. Life   Guardian  00:07, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Zealous scythe doesn't work on skeletal berserkers. Visage>you Docta Jenkins 10:36, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Main Tank Variants
Can somebody make a A/me build for main tank? Because ive ben having some trouble with energy so i was wondering if somebody could make a channeling CoP build?
 * Please sign your comments with 4 ~'s. The easiest solution is to just have your monk cast Balth's spirit on you. Then energy becomes a nonissue. Even if you were running a/me, you wouldnt be using CoP. Just have the team spike down the lightning wolf. Life   Guardian  03:47, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Distracting Blow?
For the 100B warriors' optional slot. A lot of people use Sun and Moon Slash, but I'm wondering if Distracting Blow is more effective, since it practically mimics Whirlwind Attack.

"Melee Attack. Also attacks foes adjacent to your target. Interrupts an action. Hits for no damage."

Followed by Whirlwind Attack, you could disable any healing, etc. from a mob with the interrupt effect, and despite inflicting no damage, it would still trigger Hundred Blades and Mark of Pain to finish off the group (if they didn't die already).

Unless I'm overlooking something? Comments please. :D AtomiK 23:12, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The description of Distracting Blow is slightly misleading - it actually only triggers Hundred Blades once despite "attacking" several foes. <font color="Red">A <font color="Black">ndy 23:28, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. All right then, forget that. Thanks. AtomiK 02:29, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Assassin 100b
weren't there assassin 100b too? i don't see them anymore so they don't work anymore or something? --Pryon 15:53, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * never had a/w's, there was a paragon version once but it wasnt too great. - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 16:08, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Me and soffeh rolled a/w's the other day. It rockedz but forge died. :( -- Iggy 's other account 10:16, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Due to the fact that sins crit (<3) you can spike much faster, cause you don't have to wait for energy to reload. maybe we should take the sin in the main build? most guys think that sins don't work because they don't have 100 armor <.< Acalia Draken 13:39, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * AoS and/or zealous sword already covers that perfectly well. Most people take W/A for the higher damage. - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Gray">Feya [[File:Lau_eye.png]] 11:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Extra 2 damage is fail. Docta Jenkins 05:02, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

PuG'ing
So where do you find groups to pug FoW with or are these SC team builds strictly limited to guild clears? Amorality 16:12, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * FoW is like only 1 puggable atm. just go to America District 1&2 of Temple of The Ages.Falrach 05:41, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

SF interrupted at Khobay
Yesterday I got SF interrupted at Khobay, but did not noticed what interrupted me. Does anyone know something about that ? 93.136.151.8 06:38, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Temple guards use griffon's sweep which causes KD if you block their attack. So either you don't drop your life under 50% (threshold for activating shroud's blocking ability), or just don't use shroud. <font color="Black">H <font color="Red">air <font color="Black">F <font color="Red">etish <font color="Black">M <font color="Red">an 08:35, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * or, better, use IaU when you need to cast stuff --Giorgevich 13:01, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Other Builds/Places(still manly)
originally designed for Tombs of the Primeval Kings, but have been taking it into the easier dungeons in HM for some fun, Secret Lair of the Snowmen and Sepulchure of Draggimar are the only other 2 we've done in HM, Darkrime Delves was almost completed, but monk and rit got D/C'ed before completion, and werent allowed the option to rejoin where they got D/C'ed...just Curious on other peoples experiences using Manly or Forms of Manly.

T1 Variant?
Made a T1 variant, dunno if it works :p

You need an armor which is full modded with Blessed Insignia's. A mask with +4 Shadow Arts, the rest jused full with Runes of Attunement and eventually a Rune of Superiour Vigor. As wep you can just use a +20 staff with 20% ench.

You use alcohol to maintain anti-kd with Dwarven Stab & Drunken Master to speed things up. At r10 delver dwarven stab/drunken master is a very nice combi to maintain your alcohol...

Konschu 11:22, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

[build prof=A/E ear=12 sha=12+1+3][Shroud of Distress@17][Shadow Form@17][Armor of Earth@13][Dwarven Stability][Drunken Master][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Sliver Armor@13][Death's Charge@17][/build]


 * Shame it would cost more money than using cupcakes. Just thinking in my head cakes are 100k/14e per stack, and you would use up alcohol 3 times as fast and you don't get stacks of level 3 alcohol for under 33k from what I remember. --[[File:Samsig.png]] 11:45, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * But it should be nice for ppl that want to combine making money with drunk title... Konschu 11:51, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

[build prof=R/A Exp=12+1+3 Shadow=12 ][Shroud of Distress][Shadow Form][Dwarven Stability][Whirling Defense]["By Ural's Hammer!"][Storm Chaser][Shadow Refuge][Deaths Charge][/build] Nearly the same as in SkeWay-Waste....A Ranger "Terra";) thats dealing dmg with Whirling. Needs Sweets and i thought after the Sliver-Update this should be a good alternative build.This should work for either t1 and t2Blacc 15:44, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Khobay Tactic
Because there're still loads of people who cant do the T2 job in time, because of Khobay, I'll post my tactic to kill him. I dont know if its a new one, I just know that it (nearly) always works.

This tactic will take some time, so be sure you dont go farm while doing your job, first finish it! (2 Q's -> beachwolf -> battlewolf -> go khobay and wait for Q -> send mage if t1 needs -> seeds)

So first you run to Khobay's spawn place, make sure you pulled at least 2 groups of Obsidian Furnace Drakes/Smoke Walkers and if you think you've enough time, also try to pull a third group. If you've time left while waiting you can already try to take down the Smoke Walkers. If the Q is activated Khobay and his whole gang will spawn. First sliver down the warriors and because of the heals and ressurections, the monks will also come adjacent, so you can sliver them down too. If the monks and wars of Khobay's gang are down and eventually the Smoke Walkers too, you can now just kill Khobay without any problem... :D

Konschu 15:06, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Sliver Armor Nerf
so, is it no longer possible? 85.223.3.154 08:23, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only thing that might be a bit tricky is priest. Everything else should work just fine. Death's charge up to priest and don't be bad and he'll be dead before the berserkers get up there anyways. Life   Guardian  08:26, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kinda hard to do that, the casters sometimes run on to the plateau to so you don't have the needed damage to kill him. Think that's the only struggle for t1. Eiion X 08:49, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * It also makes EBSoH and BUH useless on terras because Shadow Form has been nerfed to ignore effects of those damage increasements. Same for Asuran Scan. -- <font color="Blue">Ju <font color="Blue">ze JuzeAvatar.jpg 13:58, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * uhm, not sure what ur saying but ebsoh alone did never get me over the sf cap (BUH! did), but since Sliver is bugged now and doesnt do earth damage but.. armor ignoring damage, u dont need the ward to get the 28damage from it.. t1 and t2 are still possible, and u have a free skill slot Babes1 15:43, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ward never went over sf cap, anet is on drugs. However, after they fix sliver to not be armor ignoring, ebsoh will need to go back in to hit the max damage possible. Perhaps Glyph of Swiftness will see use now, to get sliver recharging as fast as possible. Life   Guardian  20:25, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it took them 5y to 'Fix a bug that caused Sliver Armor to always deal damage to the same foe.' so dont know :> Babes1 08:55, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see a lot of T1s having trouble at ToS because Sliver Armor hits anything that attacks you, does anyone have any tips or solutions? -Loshon
 * Actually wall hug instead of standing in the middle of nowhere letting everything scatter. Life   Guardian  06:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * You still can't kill the Priest the +8 regen gives him time to get a WoH off. Someone needs to change the usage because it is completely different now. You can't do anything with the new sliver if you have more than 2 melee on you otherwise the healers will just outheal you. --Risus 15:29, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Either pull another group or sliver down the berserkers. Or just l2p. Life   Guardian  17:02, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

General Inaccessibility of SCing
Although this isn't specifically about this build, as ManlyS is pretty much the pugging norm, I figured this would be the most appropriate spot to post this.
 * Everyone constantly complains about "noobs" and "idiots" in pugs. They blame their failures on a certain party member, and either force them to pay or blacklist them. While we all hate it when someone joins an SC party and fails, keeping up this attitude isn't going to help us in the long run. Everyone has to start somewhere, and if people keep up this shield of elitism then no newbies are ever going to have a chance to get better at SCing. Cooperation, not shouting disparities and insults to your dead teammates is going to get you through FoW, but too many people don't understand this. They don't give beginners a chance to learn. If you want a guaranteed completion, 12/11 minute run, do it with your guild; don't talk down to people who just want to have fun and make money in PuGs who are trying their best.
 * Making an effort to include beginners in SCs is the only way to ensure that the community continues to evolve and grow. When players with less-than-stellar experience walk away from SCs with a bad taste in their mouth, they're a lot less likely to hop on youtube and look at some guides than they are if they feel inspired because they're teammates are understanding and encouraging. In my mind, there's no doubt that the SCing community is gradually shrinking, and I believe that this is because the elitist attitude that many experienced SCers hold.
 * So please, next time your T2 kills all the spiders in the cave on accident, or your MT dies while trying to ball things in the forest, or your UA doesn't rez you in a fraction of a second, have some sympathy. Everyone has been there, shit happens, and having supporting teammates is the only way to survive.

Just my thoughts. -Kara Sirel, (18:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC))
 * Theres a point where it's not being a noob, it's just being downright stupid and ignorant. It's not that someone does something wrong, it's more that someone lacks common sense. You can teach a new person how to play, but you can't force someone who's being stupid to listen to you. If a rit won't cast splinter on the wars, that's not being a noob. That's just being stupid. Getting rid of idiots is a good thing, not a bad thing. Life   Guardian  20:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * LG, stop ignoring me in game. Tell me what your alliance is doing with this mesmerupdate :3 204.87.204.110 20:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Im not ignoring you more than anyone else :p. GWs is boring as hell. I just log in and go do something else. Atm, were barely even in an ally. As for Mesmer updates, I don't really think were doing anything. I believe we tried an ineptitude spike, but other stuff still works better. Life   Guardian  20:50, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Post update assassin issues
Now it's been a while since the update was posted. While there are a chosen few that know what they are doing, the issue remains that the failure rates have been increasing in a rather savage manner, almost making the run unprofitable.

What's causing all those t1 or t2 failures ? Main team always managed thru semi-=bonding or whatever, but something needs to be adjusted for the t1/t2 issue to get resolved, otherwise another way might have to be devised for doing this.--Lullysing 19:00, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's mostly people being cheap. If they would pop alcohol+pie(or a rock), it is almost impossible to fail the terra roles. It also doesn't help that pugs are really bad and spend way more time than necessary around things that can kill them(ie, impalers). Life   Guardian  21:21, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * well, blue/red/green crack can be difficult to obtain, but booze is an entirely different thing. After all, a kegger's only 15K, which is economical enough to get boozed up enough for the hard parts with stability and have a lot leftover later. But now, Am I gonna have to check equipment, builds and booze supply before every run ? it's frustrating when other people can't get their shit together.--Lullysing 18:00, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's still easy without those personals, and there's still really no excuse when someone fails. Life   Guardian  18:36, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

About R/A
its not working ;). The skeles just kill your offense with gww:Wild Blow after wich they rape you. I think someone from our last guild put it up from when we ran quad terra with a R/A as T1 without priest. So don't try to put it back up. Falrach 07:39, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't know who put it up but i removed it a couple hours ago. It can kill berserkers by blinding them, but i don't think it can do priest. However, it is extremely efficient at doing ToS and Burning, as well as wailing as a t3. Life   Guardian  07:41, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Lol blind Berserks and theyll get raped by Whirling...I never had any probs with killing Priest, as long as you have enough aggro you pull him down and kill him...and ToS and Bruning are np like Guardian said!

When using R/A the roles of the terras should be changed. The T1 R/A should take the hunt & menzies q, then do the burning forest followed by tower q and then he should go slay down khobay. The T2 A/E should do the first pop that's nrmly done by the t1 and take the 2 q's, then he should go kill battlewolf + menzies, then go to the cave, kill seeds + kill reg t2 wolves.. Personally I think the t1 job will be much faster then the t2 job, so he could probably assist the t2 when finished.. ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu  23:48, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Sliver armor on MT?
What is the point of sliver armor on the main tank? 220.237.233.252 23:59, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kill the wolf in wailing forest and cover any dead terras. gogo read usage.... Andy 00:00, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Dragon Liches
Could it be that there's a change in the AI or spawning places of the Dragon Liches at menzies in the T1 job? In my last couple of runs they started to walk around and attack me when I just dc'd into menzies.. :S ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu  18:26, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * You've just had terrible spawns, that's all. Of course, they will follow you and you kind of glitch them if you pull them. <font color="Blue">Ju <font color="Blue">ze JuzeAvatar.jpg 09:17, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm yh, you're probably right, did some more runs without pulling them so yh.. ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 12:01, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

The beach
Why cant the t2 go from the tower of courage to the beach on the southern direction instead of running all the way around? I know that either way he still have to go to the cave get the quest hunt then double back to beach to kill shard. but he would have gone through the area without any kd or abyyssal or rupts on his way there in the shorter amount of time.--Jpuzimaki13 06:56, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * he can also get the quest the hunt before the mainteam even finish the tower of strength quest. so they can just take the shard wolf out while they are there.--Jpuzimaki13 06:58, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Going through beach triggers a ton of patrols in the starting area that are a bitch to deal with and usually will kill rasti. Life   Guardian  06:58, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * im not sure what you mean the t2 can just wait for mainteam to do the first spike and run straight towards the beach. i dont know what patrols your talking about that spawns that would effect the main team or rastigan. just be chasing you around.--66.69.115.252 17:11, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Weant and tested this out got to the beach quick and easy wean through the cave and suprisingly since you go through all the dryders fallow you and got killed by shadow army and killed the shard wolf. made my job so much easier and quicker ^^--Jpuzimaki13 19:17, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Rt/P
I've seen the record of 15 minutes been done with Rt/P, having "Fall Back!" on the bar. Good for those slow griffs too. <font color="Blue">Ju <font color="Blue">ze  08:10, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Herp. Pugs are awful and this is a fairly pug friendly guide. T3, forest rit, t4, etc are not listed on here because its beyond the capabilities of most players. So, until we decide its a good idea to list some of those, we probably won't be listing a rt/p. Life   Guardian  08:14, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Alternative Spikes
I think that a DwG spike would be better then the current spike. Just 4 DwG spammers and an UA..

I also invented a new 100b spike :P, it probably does less damage, but I wanted to show it at least.. (3x100b,EoE,UA)

1xBurning Caller
[build prof=elementalist/warrior firem=12+1+1 sword=11 tactics=5 energy=4][Air of Superiority]["For Great Justice!"][Hundred Blades][Ebon Escape]["To the Limit!"][Whirlwind Attack][Mark of Rodgort][Conjure Flame][/build]

2xBurning Blades
[build prof=elementalist/warrior firem=11+1+1 sword=12 tactics=5 energy=4][Air of Superiority]["For Great Justice!"][Hundred Blades][Ebon Escape]["To the Limit!"][Whirlwind Attack][Optional][Conjure Flame][/build]

,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu  17:02, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

So you want to drop MoP and bring burning instead. You realize how utterly retarded that is, right?--TahiriVeila 17:04, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah I wanted to drop MoP, because with fire dmg it isnt triggered anyway.. I just thought that 3x100b+fire dmg+burning+splinter would be already enough dmg to kill the spikes + it would be better to kill leftovers imo.. ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 17:08, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're really dumb. Most of the damage in the spike comes from triggering MoP. You're effectively dropping at least half of the damage on spike by getting rid of mop. You make your spike effected by armor (by making all of your damage fire instead shadow) which will get reduced to shit. This is such a horribly bad idea. My guess is that you'd do maybe 1/3 the damage of a standard mop spike. Probably less, but i cba calculating it out right now.--TahiriVeila 17:23, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to hear what everyone thought about the idea ;) ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 17:26, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a terrible idea! Cheers!--TahiriVeila 17:35, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * xP, but what do you think of a DwG spike instead of MoP spike..? ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 17:40, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's possible, but a completely different build. I believe we have it covered here somewhere. Brandnew 18:24, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just found fow glaiveway, but its removed :P ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 18:40, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can spike perfectly fine with 200b+splinter and no mop. That doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Burning is pointless and you lose tons of cleanup ability by dropping barbs. DwG would of course work but it would be slower and leas efficient than manly, shitterflames, keystone etc. Life   Guardian  19:00, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its just thought of it today and I wanted to see what other people thought of it, dont shoot me :P And about the cleanup, MoR is at least as good as barbs (imo).. And I dont really agree with you when you say DwG would be slower then manly, but nvm.. ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 19:32, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Burning causes 14 damage per second. Barbs does so much more than that.--TahiriVeila 19:35, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ow lol sorry :S, didnt read the description and I thought MoR did fire dmg+burning when triggered, sry :$ ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 20:48, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, Death's Charge > EE, EE is sloww – BalisticSig.png<font color="#7777cc">alistic 04:01, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Necro Bar
Recently I have been running this necro bar:

-Air of superiority is easily enough to always be ready for the next spike and SS can be useful in certain places. You can argue back and forth for days over which pve skill to use (GDW, EVAS, FH, YMLaD, etc.) but while I am not suggesting this exact bar, AP, EVAS and FH could be made into optionals without lowering the functionality of the build. discuss. <font color="Blue">Paranon 20:59, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think for pugs, you can't get better than AP. The reason behind this is mostly because of the ap-->FH! combo. Pugs can't follow targets worth a shit, and balls are never good, so the amount of killing power you get out of it is incredible. Obviously in guild runs where there are fewer leftovers and more competent warriors some other elite/secondary would function better(such as /p for inspirational speech). GDW, if you wanted to bring it, would fit better on the monk than the necro imo, as the monk doesnt already have 3 useful pve skills, and also has plenty of free slots available. Life   Guardian  22:18, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * 'Pugs can't follow targets worth a shit', ok, you got me there - i try and tell myself that for so many people to be so bad at something so easy, there must be something wrong with this page, but the truth is that pugs are just retarded. Do you think there is any point in adding variation bars for people who have an IQ greater than that of a monkey? <font color="Blue">Paranon 22:44, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really...I mean, you can get a 15 minute run with almost the exact bars as listed on this page, so its not like theyre that dumbed down. There's always variants like t3, t4, forest rit, n/p, rt/p, etc, but none of them really have a huge impact on the run. I suppose we could add some variants, but its not like a huge number of people are interested in running fast fows, and of those, there aren't a ton who would actually be able to. Life   Guardian  23:23, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is any point in adding variants to this already cluttered page. The bars are almost perfect for pugs, and any guild teams looking to get better can easily find the information on this talk page or elsewhere. <font color="Red">A <font color="Black">ndy 00:28, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like here. Life   Guardian  01:00, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Sin 100b
What's with the sin 100b hate when it comes to PUGS? I've 100b as a sin countless times and never been in a life threatening situation. With points in Crit I can gain energy and have a chance to spike higher. If the group is balled proper then 1 spike from either 100b is enough.

Sins do this just fine, I say add it to the page as a variant. 188.222.74.71 21:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Nex Atrum
 * The only down side is you need splint for shadow mesmers/monks. And less armor.– BalisticSig.png<font color="#7777cc">alistic 22:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sin 100b is bad. Make a warrior and stop being lazy. Life Guardian 01:50, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And why is a Sin 100b Bad? If the MT has balled correctly 1 spike, 0 damage taken, good night.188.222.74.71 11:47, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Nex Atrum
 * sin 100b is bad because it has less armor and does less damage. pugs are terrible so many spikes fail, and when a spike fails its better to have a w/a than a/w, also it says about you "i'm too lazy to make a warrior". and don't even get me started on A/N MoPs... Paranon15 12:42, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Its not that I'm to lazy to make a Warrior, its the fact I don't actually want a Warrior. 188.222.74.71 14:14, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Nex Atrum
 * Then your party members don't deserve to suffer because of what you want, if you wanna 100b make a war, if you dont want to 100b then you dont have to make a war, but the team shouldnt have to compromise to include you, there are many warriors looking for groups in toa so why would people take a sub-optimal class for it? Paranon15 14:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess we're entitled to each opinions. I've actually been in many pugs as A/W, no complaints and can easy solo the spike when the warrior is to slow on the call, I've never failed due to me being a Sin..cool story blah blah...point is there are people who don't mind A/W and some who refuse to take them, adding them into this page as a variant will help alleviate this, in the grand scheme of things the overall difference is minute taking into consideration points in crit. 188.222.74.71 21:50, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Nex Atrum
 * I'd say sins are pretty viable, the small spikes (monks and mes) the total dmg diff is like 10 and if the balls are so bad armor really counts your usually fucked anyway (and sins got their strong perma armors while most 100bs run their pro triple sup rune pve set :D) Falrach 21:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Imo 10% in critical hit dont change nothing,i suggest some variant in build/attributes that make it more effective and give extra armor...first off all 10+3 in critical hit,using all vitae runes / survivor insigna you still reach over 600 hp, 700 with conset and maybe 800 with an apple, raise 8 of tactic so you can use a shield with 8/15-16 or 7/15-16, anyway spend 8 point in tactic. the skills are all ok but use way of the master as optional that give +31% chance of critical hit (with conset) so we got a total of 14+31 chace of critical [45%].If you dont like the +1+2 in critical just use the rune +1 you can reach anyway 13 in criticals(instead 14) and have the max effect of it. Light Athena II 14:03, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I must correct a thing, if you put 8 in tactic you can use a q9 tact shield with consets,sorry my bad =P Light Athena II 14:32, 31 December 2010 (UTC)