Archive talk:Team - HB Conditionway

need help on atts.Mgelo21 07:04, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

The usage of Brutal Weapon is questionable imo when all the monk does is cast enchants. -- Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 07:14, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

Ditch Brutal. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 07:21, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Dang edit conflicts! Yeah, drop Brutal. Also, imo, you should drop the "Energy Storage=0" and "Strength=0", its not only blatantly obvious that you shouldn't have points in there b/c its not the primary profession, but its unnecessary. --NYC Elite 07:23, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * "Too Slow foo!" Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 07:29, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * It's just to help the hover infos. It'll show range without it. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 07:24, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Not on the other builds, so imo, its not necessary, but whatever. On another note, thanks for help with the attributes, I see some were changed. I wasn't sure about the attributes and I didn't add any majors or superiors to be safe, so change that if needed... dang edit conflicts. --NYC Elite 07:26, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * I changed the energy one to @0 instead of energy=0 if that looks better for ya. :P Readem already changed the str one. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 07:28, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Cool thanks... more edit conflicts, D'oh! Anyways, should equipment (outside of the obvious) be noted? And I've seen some people run AE and SS instead of Shadow Prison and Tiger's Stance, should that be noted as a variant? --NYC Elite 07:30, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * did u read the notes at the bottom?Mgelo21 07:32, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Kick Impale. Siphon is standard imo. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 07:34, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * ill add Siphon in variants since i think Deep Wound + dmg is better than 33% speed boost. Mgelo21 07:37, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Actually, Impale should stay imo. Its very common, and if you're not using Twisting Fangs, it should be in there. And apparantly I didn't see the notes, lol. Adding to variants. --NYC Elite 07:42, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Added variant and linked the skills... rephrase or whatever if needed. --NYC Elite 07:44, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

ugh shouldn't have posted this. now everyone is using the exact same skills and heros. Before there was more of difference. Mgelo21 14:44, 26 June 2007 (EDT)
 * I use deny hexes with reverse hexes, found it works very well to get rid of those annoying hexes. 72.196.131.42 03:52, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Lol, shouldn't have posted this? Like it matters, there was barely a difference from before and after. People are running this like there's no tomorrow. --NYC Elite 03:49, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
 * I highly doubt they got this build from the wiki...most copied the real build off ekelon who runs it much better. 72.196.131.42 03:52, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
 * That's my point. --NYC Elite 04:24, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Just a quick question, shouldn't Impale be used before Black Spider so that Deep Wound is covered once? It doesn't seem like it makes much difference, but against monks running non-"Mend Condition" Removal, it makes the kill much easier. --Diablos Soul 22:32, 15 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I use Impale after I finish the entire combo, but that's just me because there is also a good chance that if you use impale before you use black spider strike, the monk could remove your hexes, preventing black spider from working.Ace 02:27, 2 September 2007 (CEST)

Equipment?
Maybe someone should post the equipment for all 4 characters. Delgadude 02:24, 2 July 2007 (CEST)Delgadude

Featured Untested
What's that about Bob Fregman
 * Umm, what do you mean? --NYC Elite 17:08, 3 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Why is the most popular hero build, which has been sucessfully tested and vetted with flying colors, in the featured UNTESTED section, instead of just the featured build section.Bob Fregman
 * <.< sorry, didn't notice. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 05:32, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

wow
no wonder everyone and they're mom uses this build. @@

Constant Update
This article will need to reflect the current meta, otherwise it is worthless. Who is going to maintain it? Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 05:40, 6 July 2007 (CEST)
 * everyone can constantly update it. i dont really care. Mgelo21 16:43, 6 July 2007 (CEST)
 * For those who do, archive the older, outdated builds as they come and go. This is a good oppurtunity for us to fully document the HB meta right from the start. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   07:07, 24 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Nobody uses spirit spammers no more (at least not to the best of my knowledge). Sins are kinda rare now. a lot of peeps run 2 spears, a w/d SS war, and a monk. ~ ZamaneeJinn 22:53, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

Warrior/Ranger
The new ones run by all the top players. I put one together as best I could here. Someone incorporate that into the article please? <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 20:17, 18 July 2007 (CEST)

Ekelon totally creamed the #3 HBer who was running a W/R, she ran a D/P over the R/P tho. --Hikari 06:45, 24 July 2007 (CEST)


 * ekelon totally creams everyone, lol - <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 06:46, 24 July 2007 (CEST)

why blades of steel? only one recharging dagger mastery attack, so it could be replaced by something with a little more damage, like nine tails strike

There's 4 recharging dagger attacks. Tycn 16:24, 27 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Readem's votes that he removed on this build were by far injustly removed... let's take a look...


 * Tycn
 * Removed:


 * I hate HB and hate these builds, but they work.


 * Reason: This is pretty much the best HB team build in existance atm. Don't be a Build racist :P.
 * Removed by: Readem

Why was this removed? Just because the user doesn't like the build doesn't mean it should be removed. Or we may as well remove some of the Toucher votes too.


 * Dillion64
 * Removed:


 * not much healing from the monk, but overall a very good team, good job


 * Reason: Don't understand comment...Hero Monks are never good...
 * Removed by: Readem

What is there not to understand?

Just please quit being a jerk Readem. These votes were completely justified. Please explain better. <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 22:04, 30 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Well for one, people can revote dude. I strongly encourage it in fact. If you say that the Monks are not good, and give it a 4 in effectiveness, I then tell you there truly is no better Monk Build for HB. Hopefully, the voter will understand, that even though the monks are not great, for AI they are the best. If not, then the user should give a better justified vote on why the monk is bad. How can it be better? Explain more throughly. As for Tycn's vote, they more then work. they were the HB meta! It is meta for a reason my friend :P! Sure, he can vote 4's, but at least don't add suspicion to your votes validity by saying you hate HB in general :P! Basically, revote with a better reason than: I hate HB (biased), These are good but not the best (what is the best then?). <font color="Black">Readem  (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 22:15, 30 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Last time I checked, Ekelon ran the SP Sin (without recall), A Rt/N (Rend), a D/P ( Cap ), and the Monk which has the same bar that this build does. --Hikari 00:30, 7 August 2007 (CEST)

Ritualist Optional
Needs to be added... I've never run one of these, so I dont know what it should be. It gives no recommended. EDIT: Nevermind, but its optionals should be underneath its build I think... change if you agree. <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 20:07, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

Ritualist
Should be Rt/N with Rend Enchantments. (Also Parasitic Bond would help and many of the top players take it as well). Ss 16:41, 7 August 2007 (CEST)

LOOK HERE
IF YOU HAVE A VERSION OF YOUR OWN, ADD IT TO THE VARIANTS. If you can read the build it says add or own variants to constantly update this build. Mgelo21 03:25, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

HB
This is what I am currently running. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 05:03, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

E/Mo and Rt/N Imo. I hate Hero Battles though so...=P --Hikari 00:38, 28 August 2007 (CEST)

Meh, I find heroes use Parasitic poorly, and corrupt you need to force. Thus, Web is godmode. E/Mo's get ganked like nothing, and you need to micro everything. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:54, 28 August 2007 (CEST)

Ekelon, Adzik and the rest of the hero ladder disagree, you dont run Parasitic, your run corrupt and rend and have one of them disabled for when you jump with Shadow Prison, the E/Mo carries SoR and Dismiss condition, so unless the other teams capturing hero has enchant removal, the Emo does just fine. --Hikari 03:33, 28 August 2007 (CEST)

Meh, I know what you run. I was disagreeing with SS above, btw :P. I never said the E/Mo's didn't work, they just take micro skillz. I prefer Touch to Dismiss, and Guardian for w/e reason. Web is still godmode, regardless of what you say. It also doesn't take much to kill the E/Mo's, as it is easiest to gank while NPC's are moving. Hammer is possibly the best when used correctly, but sins are more versatile I have decided. Also, look at my build of the week, to see SpNv bar in HB. (Also, I am not that low ranked myself ;) <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 06:44, 28 August 2007 (CEST)

Bah, I rarely HB anymore, I just remember that the Fire E/Mo Build was nice for spiking down something nice n fast, then again who am I to talk I'm like rank...what 17k or so? lolol =P

Blessed Light or Sor
Blessed Light is better than SoR in this build because it has less energy casting, and faster recharge time. SoR is an enchantment that can easily be removed. I run Assault Enchantments variation and the hero monk will just waste energy recasting SoR when it gets removed. Blessed Light is better, since it is a healing skill, condition removal, and hex removal at the same time. Ace 20:24, 3 September 2007 (CEST)

And heroes use it like shit regardless. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 06:34, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

SoR monk Energy
Tending to be heroes..they dont' care about energy management. You would need to disable both GoLE and SoR to use it properly, and manually click it, which is a nuisance. It would be better swapped for a ZB monk.

Heroes fail at ZB. --Hikari 22:25, 4 October 2007 (CEST)

SoR = ftw. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:03, 4 October 2007 (CEST)

Archive
How about archiving? It's not used any more. &mdash; Abedeus   14:44, 16 November 2007 (CET)

Not used?? i have won 15 out of 16 battles with this team build - only problem is that the assassin has been nerfed--XistdedOne 04:43, 17 November 2007 (CET)


 * How can you use this when Black Lotus Strike is lead attack? Doesnt't that kind of ruin the spike.? Kongtorp 16:29, 18 November 2007 (CET)


 * Agreed - BoS and Horns must follow off-hand attacks and Black Lotus has been made into a Lead attack - you can't use all the skills in one chain - you would have to alternate between BoS and Horns - very ineffiecient Humuhumu 00:26, 20 November 2007 (CET)

If the sin build is the only thing not working anymore, why not just change the sin rather than archive the whole thing? 76.89.84.136 02:44, 28 November 2007 (CET)

This needs to be archived, or substantially changed. In addition to the sin no longer working, this version of the build has been passed over and is currently inferior.Bob fregman 02:42, 29 November 2007 (CET)

I took the initiative to "substantially change" this build to its modern form. Please discuss any changes or if it's going to be archived just revert it. Teutonic 17:39, 2 December 2007 (CET)

New test
Im new and cant ping a bar, but im using the shattering sin to remove chants, the regular SoR monk, a tank of my prefrence (tanking Ele) and a rit with a slight change to the bar, Weaken knees, monks are shut down, cant move and allows you for some unprotable spikes, try it! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.160.100.17 (contribs).
 * Tried it and i strongly agree, although i advise using a corrupt smiter with weaken knees for the permanent enchant that comes with strength of honor. You can still add in an enchant of your own but it helps out on damage. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Muryman (contribs).
 * How do you run a corrupt smiter with weaken knees?  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  03:18, 6 February 2008 (EST)

Lightning?
well i have lightning dagger tang but not ebon and i was wondering if they could be switched between?24.61.65.57 21:56, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Yes. You don't really need elemental anyway.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  23:51, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Nerfs
LOL@YOO <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=]  <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 19:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)

new sp sin imo

 * himynameisbobbyjoe 20:06, 6 March 2008 (EST)

not even close, the build above sucks baed. >=] --<font color="Purple"><tt>I</tt>g<tt>o</tt>r<tt></tt> 08:45, 8 March 2008 (EST)

So I herd A-Net doesnt like assassins. Srsly all the assassin snare hexes are now baed. And SP didnt need ANOTHER nerf. Ojamo 12:23, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * do SP duration nerfs matter? you only need it to last for two seconds after you cast it so it triggers mantis. If the duration was nerfed down to 1...3...4, people would likely still use it. imho, in its current state it's still incredibly imba. ~ ʑʌɱʌɳəəɺɨɳɳ [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 14:13, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Two-second non-damage hexes are incapable of being imba. Silven 02:33, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Updated
Updated to the current meta and skill balance, hope u guys liek it. :) --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  13:33, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

archive?
Dont see how this is viable now that metagame is +2mo per team... if u send monk+rit to cap center they will just get ownd hard by spikes. and the burst from the asn skills is negated fairly easy. Signet a/mo is where its at.

Well First of all, shadow prison has always been and always will be a suck elite, secondly, black mantis/jungle strike is overrated, you get FAR more damage output from unsuspecting strike/wild strike/death blossom, that chain can be spammed, your left with 5 skills that can act as support, shadow prison has just been bad since the start, consider skills like flourish, but everyones' so stero typed to what the "meta" is everything else is crap by default

Wrath of the sin 19:20, 23 May 2008 (EDT)wrath of the sin

lol, srsly archive yourself not this build, still being ran, is still good. :) --  Super Igor   *ninja!!*  09:50, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Lol no one runs this. The CE rit really sucks since it's healing abilities are minimal and CE is completely outdone by rip enchantment. Everyone's replaced it with a Heal/smite hybrid. And most have abandoned SP for backbreaker sins lately too, SP's just been nerfed too hard. Change the build if you want, otherwise archive this build.--Goldenstar 11:58, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It works, I propose a change of sin bar from SP to BB. --Tiger 12:01, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * FYI SP still works great...this thing is very old and I am running it.[[Image:Awesome_Dwayna.jpg|19px]]  &not; All H@1L DwaynA!™  (-HookinHeads-[[Image:AWESOMEPRO.png|20px]]) 23:45, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * This build works? since when? i flawless these every day! Zzes Tyan 13:03, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

im back
haha cant believe this is still here but the first version was way more fun dam nerfs Mgelo21 15:03, 21 September 2008 (EDT)