Build talk:Team - 7 Hero Markway

You've got the ESurge build listed twice. Otherwise it looks about as good as I can see VoS being. -- Jai . -  02:23, November 5 2011 (UTC)
 * dw vorp fixes. Shame no Eremite's :( ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 02:26, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Is death's charge really needed? Seems to me that heroes don't use any of the shadowsteps well. Asdf 02:49, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It helps them get from A to B at times, but sometimes they do use it stupidly, such as walking to the foe and then teleporting to it, but generally it's more useful than anything else that can go in that slot. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 03:02, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Done editing stuff! :D @Asdf: death's charge is really handy and helps with medicore position and leaping into battle! :) Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 03:19, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

so if you fuck up one pull you wipe?
I spy one rez. -- Chieftain   Alex  09:58, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hence; Optionals. If you're manly, you take less resses and more useful skills while you're all alive, preventing further death. If your name is Cheirflap Alex, you take moar res in anticipation of poor pull ;p ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 13:04, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * PvE is not for pussies. Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 13:31, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * @ Ex, I'd say you need more rezzes with all them builds you created ^^ Shadow 13:32, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Tom - whats a pull? I c spaced my way to GWAMM remember. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  13:43, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You're the one who said it! ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 14:04, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

This
Still needs more formatting. No usage (it'd be a good idea to make sure people realize this isn't a cspace build), the variants are really unclear, and there's no equipment. -- Jai . -  16:17, November 5 2011 (UTC)
 * Meh equipment is mostly obvious - except I'm not sure if you'd give the casters spears to hit MoP target or not.
 * Vampiric Scythes of Fortitude with +15 ench
 * 40/40 weapons on the obvious attribute for each caster OR spear of fortitude with 20/20 focus with exception of:
 * heavy spear of enchanting and communing focus with 20/20 for ST rit.
 * As for usage.. while you can cspace with this build (and I have c spaced through gates of madness HM with the previous version of this from tom's sandbox), but I guess usage would be to micro at least Shelter on the ST rit before aggro, set dervs to death's charge your MoP target + flag and release flags as you lure with flatbow.-- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  17:45, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I'll make sure to list the proper equipment, counters and a usage section. <font color="Black">Vorpal  20:06, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Jai
This is a build specifically for necromancers; judge it's universality on necro teams. RoJway isn't as productive for a necro as a melee character, anyway. You need an anchor. ~  Ӎiñon  00:07, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Lolwut? I didn't mention anywhere that I was basing its universality on the fact that it requires a necro. However, universality is lowered due to the build being more of a glass cannon than other hero teambuilds. And RoJway is the exact same idea as this, just with melees instead of smites. And like I said in my vote, I'll raise it by 0.4 (to 4-3) once the usage/equipment/variants stuff is added. -- Jai . -  00:11, November 6 2011 (UTC)
 * It's hardly a glass cannon; it has a dedicated healer, off-hand secondary heals + 2-3 party heals (if taking Life) and Veil of Thorns reduces spell damage. As Alex said, he managed to c-space Gate of Madness even without the dedicated healer and +1s KD. I'd say RoJ is more glass cannon because of all the 60 ALs! ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 00:15, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * herp derp this has 6 60AL's, it's pretty much 0 difference there. And I said "more of a glass cannon than other hero teambuilds." And you're never, ever going to convince that this is more than a 4-3 build, sorry. -- Jai . -  00:19, November 6 2011 (UTC)
 * How can any build with a dedicated healer and an ST rit be considered a glass cannon? It's not a case of "if you pull you win, if you don't you die" because it's been shown it works both ways; lazy play and tactical. Your hate for melee AI is clouding your judgement, clearly. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 00:27, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "MORE OF" -- Jai  . -  01:15, November 6 2011 (UTC)
 * ¿orly? Except, when you have the same builds but two of the characters have a considerable amount more armour and spell protection, it means it's LESS OF a glass cannon. Do you know what a GC is? Try EFGJack's RoJway with only a signet of rejuvenation on two mesmers. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 02:01, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really. an extra 20 AL is about a 30% damage reduction, which means less than a total reduction of 7% over the whole party, but actually less because higher armor = less targetted. In practice, your damage reduction from the dervs will maybe be 5%. Not to mention that shelter caps damage after armor, so only hits that are less than 60 damage will see any reduction from armor, and of course there's armor-ignoring damage to factor in as well well. On the other hand, smiters have RoD, which is essentially a more consisten RoF with damage, along with Smite Hex/Condy and Heaven's Delight/Divine Healing. Two of them together will put out about the equivalent of a single dedicated healer. Oh, and glass cannon can also refer to vulnerability to hexes and enchants, which RoJway is much better suited for (because it has fewer/no melees to care of, while this has 2 hero melees, and the hero part does make a difference).
 * Tl;dr an extra 20 armor on 2 chars isn't going to compare to two hybrid healers in terms of defense. -- Jai . -  02:56, November 6 2011 (UTC)
 * RoJ is actually a very glass-cannon spell. You're hoping that foes don't kite when you're a caster not bodyblocking, it's just not a cspace build unlike this. The only foe that kites from MoP is the one you cast it on, but by then it's already been KD'd and the mob is dead. Try using RoJway on a necromancer; you'd need a meleemancer build... RoJ will make everything kite and then you're left with two recharging elites and an energy-hungry spammable bar that doesn't do much. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 03:42, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The Dervishes mitigate most of the damage, so I wouldn't call this build a glass cannon per se. Vulnerability to hexes and conditions is overrated in pve, most pve teams got only like 2 hex and/or condition removal skills? RoJway provides much more defenses, but RoJ has an unreliable damage output. You can't deny the fact that it doesn't always hit the optimal targets and heroes often synch, resulting in a double RoJ beam and wasted potential. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 14:07, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Look, you're not going to get me to rate this higher than a low-good build, because I can't see it as it being anything but that. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that it's even that good. The build isn't being trashed, and I'm not putting it close to being trashed either. If you want it discussed further, go to the AN. -- Jai . -  19:45, November 6 2011 (UTC)

Small point about your vote Jai: there are suggestions for additional resurrection skills. N/Rt has an optional with res as a choice for it. Both Rits have it as a variant skill (it can replace unessential skills like Bloodsong or Fall Back). --  Toraen   talk  21:53, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The main point was that the variants weren't complete because they didn't say what they should be replacing. Once Excluded fixed that, I changed my vote. -- Jai . -  12:25, November 9 2011 (UTC)

Feedback
Has anyone used this exact bar recently? Alex still using the PI hybrid? Looking for holes to fill, that's all. Krcaran guy said he wasn't impressed, but didn't say why. ~  Ӎiñon  17:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I just did Defend Droknar's Forge with the build on HM, went pretty smooth! If you can beat those Panic and Healing burst suckers you can do everything! :) <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 18:26, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

How about this
Drop the PoD nec for Orders/resto instead + paragoon over PI mes. Yethoughts? OoV and Blood Bond would increase the power of the derpish' survivability and damage. Or, which mesmer would be better to remove? ~  Ӎiñon  03:42, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Dropping the PI means you lose your only "snare", which means you'd likely have to micro your Death's Charges more to avoid breaking of agro, and foes will be able to flee from MoP/VoS damage easier. (Whereas they'd be KD'd for 1/2 of the time otherwise I'd hope.) You lose the defensive illusion skills and your enchantment removal in order to buff the dervishes damage that the main purpose of is to trigger MoP? I think it'd work if you're willing to do the extra micro, although whether it'd be more effective, idk. PewPew   QQ   10:32, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * We still have Binding Chains for a short snare, but I agree with you that the Mesmer probably shouldn't be dropped. The use of a Blood Resto is a good idea though Excluded! :D <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 16:12, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Using Blood Bond and OoV would probably mean you don't need PwK or Life. I would micro OoV, sometimes DC if I see they haven't used it, but not so necessary. Of course the PvE cliché of "you only need to have enough defence to last until the mob is dead" syndrome. The paragon can buff the derv's critical chances and act as a Fall Backer. Not sure what elite it'd have just yet; maybe Soldier's Fury or the daze spear for bosses and you get to drop Technobabble. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 21:06, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * @PewPew; You're looking to get the most out of MoP, but also single target is important; the reason we aren't using LF sins. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 21:11, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I still think that dropping the Mesmer for a Paragon is a terrible idea Excluded. You sacrifice a lot of shutdown, AoE damage and a massive snare for the sake of additional support. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 23:13, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I was more focussed on the loss of the Illusion Mesmer for a paragon in that stream of consciousness. I like the idea of the Orders Resto personally, although you do lose Enfeebling (which you can take on the player, and you have an Illusion mes anyway.)
 * Taking the para does mean you get to lower the attribute splits on one of the heros currently holding "FB!", personally I'd take it off of the ST for more durable Shelter + Union. Taking the Para would be nice for the Command buffs, but I doubt it'd make up for the loss of the PI Illusion. PewPew   QQ   01:10, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Note also that Anthem of Envy affects spirits, so there's more bonus damage there. I think it would be a valid optional, at least. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 01:16, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * But without the Illusion Mesmer physical resistance is gonna be tight. How about we make an optional between the ST Rit and a Commandogon? <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 01:29, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That was one of the stronger reasons it has going for it, but without the Illusion you're much more vunerable. PewPew   QQ   01:38, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, if you're going to do that you may want to note that it's for areas where the extra defense from the ST isn't needed. PewPew   QQ   01:38, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sound like a good plan! Now I'm interested in Excluded's opinion on this. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 01:51, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Eh, you'd rather drop ST prot before Illusion/Dom? That seems an odd decision. Although you could drop the ST rit for another mes slot; take another esurge with a split into prot for SoA and PS. A bit lulzy but it would work, and you get moar mes. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 01:53, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The thing is, when you have a paragoon instead of the esurge or PI mes, you get to drop Fallback from the ST rit. It's energy management improves a shitload and you can give it Enfeebling for antimelee. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 01:56, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Illusion Mesmer provides melee shutdown yes, but also the best snare in the game and a shitload of damage. I highly doubt that using a Paragon would lead to more damage. The ST Rit on the other hand might be a bit overkill for most areas, but yes then your additional Mesmer argument becomes totally valid. "Fall Back" shouldn't be a priority and the energy management of the ST Rit is fine imo. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 02:12, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Depends if you disable/micro it, to be honest. Sometimes if you kite around alot, which your dervs will do, it will get used. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 02:18, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Lesson on Melee for Jai
Just to note, I think another esurge or Inept should be added to this over PI, given the 4s KD is a pointless waste of attributes and being able to spare atts for 9 prot for SoA is more valuable. I also want to suggest Jai's rating is incredibly biased towards RoJway and when claiming with numbers that a build is better than another one (and therefore rating this lower) you shouldn't use "probably, maybe, about, more or less, estimation, etc." numbers. You are also wrong entirely, so I'd like Toraen to review it (it's inevitably Toraen, but any admin can help) So you claim the dervs deal roughly the same amount of damage as RoJ monks only at once instead of spread over 5 seconds. I'd like you to quick reference what "Trained by melee" means... Firstly, VoS is always active (ench mod scythe) then their attack skills are adren based, so they much charge them. So, onto my next point about the damage over time. A dervish has a 9th skill that smite monks can't take; it's called autoattack with scythe and it's very powerful. 0 energy 0 cooldown and you will find RoJ has a 20s cooldown. Conclusion: Dervs spike faster and pewpew whilst you will be waiting for roj to recharge to finish stragglers that kited from your first two RoJs because your lasers don't follow your targets; Dervs do. ~  Ӎiñon  05:04, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * tl;dr-- Relyk 05:33, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Good thing it was for Jai to read, eh. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 05:36, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Inept is pro, did you ever get around to testing dual inept? Fucking pro. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 05:40, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This really doesn't seem like something that needs review (this will never really influence the category of the build significantly) and is more you bitching at Jai because you're bored. I'll wait for Jai's defense of his vote and decide then whether I should remove it. -- Toraen   confer  06:21, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, when the strength of your vote stands on fabricated numbers... The build is still in testing, by the way. I have optimised the derv bars, now working on making the mesmers and the resto hybrid not be so shit. Hybrid resto seems like a waste, currently, because the dervs are so damned strong. Would you suggest it go back into Trial if it's heavily edited? ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 06:58, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Make your edits and we'll see. -- Toraen   confer  07:04, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * @Rask; just tried dual Inept. It's pretty strong. I took one copy of Clumsiness and one of Wandering, so there'd be more bar compression and less stacking. Gives me a few spaces to slot shouts, prots or other stuff. Will edit build in a bit. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 08:01, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The damage really isn't even that important, tbh. You have plenty of damage coming through stuff to make things dead. The big thing is that this is still a cspace bar that's not particularly faster than any other cspace bar, and this one's more easily picked apart because you have two melees (you're not going to convince anyone that that's not a disadvantage) and you've lost two midline characters with utility/healing in order to bring said melees. Also, I'm actually being extremely generous because normally (that is, if I knew there wouldn't be a massive shitstorm over it) I would vote about a 2-2, so shut up before I change my mind. -- Jai . -  16:08, December 24 2011 (UTC)
 * For easy areas it's fine to cspace and the kills are alot faster than with 2x RoJ. Reap+Sand Shards+Splinter is the equivalent to 7 splinter triggers; from two dervs that's massive damage worthy of dropping two midline characters that don't do much. On mobs that need balling, you have even more defence because the dervs aren't being targeted. that's when you flag them back (no, they won't dcharge in randomly) pull from a corner/edge and release flag+call MoP. But that goes without saying when you're running a build that is built around MoP. The dervish heroes are steady; the only stupid thing they do sometimes is run away after killing the initial target. It's a glass cannon, but I've seen, through testing, that that whole extra resto hybrid just wasn't necessary to keep the dervs alive. If it's aggro you're worried about; that's not so much a build problem but a player problem and you need to get better at using melee heroes. Of course you've never used them. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 17:17, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You're ignoring my main point that I've had from the beginning, which is that you don't need the "massive damage" that you're getting with the dervs. If you are balling stuff, RoJ is amazing (that is, essentially the same speed as this) and ridiculously safe. If you want a really, really fast build then use FoC necro's or something. If you're cspacing, then this is a bad build to be using. And I don't care how much you go on about melees, there's still the simple fact of melees being easier to shut down than casters, without even taking into account hero AI (and you're not going convince me that melee AI isn't retarded, because I HAVE used them (just last Thursday) and they fuck everything up). Again, if you keep going on about this I'm going to lower my vote because I'm losing patience at this point. -- Jai' s Crappy Christmas Sig...  -  05:25, December 25 2011 (UTC)
 * Melee are used in all forms of the game. Dervish are the most OP profession. It's extreme bias when you then suggest FoC/curses necros to be better than Dervs. The whole meaning of Physway is that it can rip up a mob fast so not to receive such massive damage. Also, you have ST, party heals, strong spot heals and a LOT of midline defence. Dying with this is hard . You either need to try it for yourself or resign to the fact that it is used and melee AI is FINE. You don't even need Mark of Pain to deal massive damage with dervs; you have Splinter and VoS hits through Blind and so does Sand Shards. The single-target and AoE damage in this build is superior to all builds. It has condition and hex removal, it's a got solid defence without going overboard as you always do. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 06:12, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * See, this is exactly the kind of vote I'm not qualified to remove. I don't think either of you are going to change your minds so you can stop now, and the vote isn't trashing the build so I don't see what the big deal is. -- Toraen   confer  07:15, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * ^ -- Jai' s Crappy Christmas Sig...  -  11:12, December 25 2011 (UTC)

Water effectiveness
Basically you're relegating a whole slot to one elite skill... Everything else looks rubbish on there. Adjacent range from Rust and is a snare with a small amount of damage worth it? How about Unsteady ground with a ward and Stoning/Obsidian Flame? More damage, more support (I think) what do you think? Soi Sticker 07:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing else you could run there is going to add as much effectiveness as the Water hero. You already have Panic + Dom spells to shutdown the entire mob, The snare keeps the foes in range of MoP damage for longer (the whole point of the team build), and easily has enough spare attributes and energy for the /P utility. Unsteady Ground won't stop them kiting, and Stoning/Obby Flame would be pretty useless. Ward would be pointless too, as the build already has so much defense. MoI is also Nearby range, even though it's PBAoE, which is the largest range snare Water Magic has to offer.  PewPew   QQ   11:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking a Keystone Signet spam bar over Panic. You could dump SoH on it and maybe balth spirit too, meaning an ER prot hero isn't out of the question... But I think ST is safer. I agree the snare from MoI is great, and it's range is good, but I couldn't help think it's the only redeeming feature... I hope water gets a buff in the next update. Soi Sticker 13:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The dervs don't need buffing any further, (and if they did, the OotV Resto from one of the earlier revisions would probably be the way to go about it) and Panic has better shutdown than Keystone, which is what is needed. The extra damage from Keystone is uneccesary too, so you'd probably be hindering yourself more than anything. PewPew   QQ   14:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You're probably right. Extra damage shouldn't be needed if you're using MoP right... Thanks. Soi Sticker 14:51, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Mesmer SoI


This could work with a 40/40 set i wonder if AP is needed for necro anyway. It's a strong skill but if there better options. <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  19:42, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Stop
fucking this build up people ffs. <font color="Black">Vorpal  19:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Last edit was the 13th, and the current build was copied from the guru thread. Be more helpful in identifying what's wrong please. -- Toraen   confer  22:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I think HigherMinion made it? If so, the builds are to his "specification". Soi Sticker 01:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No, they are not. First off, he's banned and thus currently has no say in the wiki. Second, no one owns builds. Others have just as much right to edit the build as he does. -- Jai .  -  03:33, January 31 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh... Then why does Rachtoh and Sab have builds named after themselves? Soi Sticker 03:58, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Those names were what the entire GW community referred to those setups as, so the builds were stored under the name people would look for. -- Toraen   confer  08:05, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Minions
yesplz? Also, Veil of Thorns deals physical damage, TMS is cool, needs dual Splinter (counts as physical, minions etc). Whirling Defense is also physical dmg, but that hardly matters. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 12:21, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ST rit is like the only reason a dual derv frontline would live in higher end PvE. Older edits had veil of thorns so ok. I think teardowns were removed because heroes can't use them with VoS.-- Relyk 12:27, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Fuck life and take dual HB swords with pets! Or even better, spec all players who can into /R! Then add a MM, a second source of MoP, and fucktons of defense. Then again, you already have a bigger party than most PvE mobs, so maybe we should just add Fertile Season with Winnowing, and call it a day. Obviously the same ranger runs traps, because hey. You might need dual SoC, and the wars should go IWAY because.. Oh, wait, ups. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 12:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Running 8 pets is not as great and idea as you would think when you try it out. Even if they are 8 jingle bears.-- Relyk 14:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Fix yourself a panda.
 * Play PvE with 8 pandas.
 * Keep wiping.
 * Extinct the species.
 * Profit.
 * -- DANDY ^_^ -- 22:30, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sold. Now I just need to justify the cost of getting a panda on my necro.-- Relyk 09:21, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, this works really well with an ER prot aswell. The choice is their's, but it's harder to slot a second FB if you take ER, but you get an extra spike heal. Soi Sticker 14:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, this works really well with an ER prot aswell. The choice is their's, but it's harder to slot a second FB if you take ER, but you get an extra spike heal. Soi Sticker 14:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Splinter on ST?
Is there enough to get 6 (or 5 if runed) channeling? A bit more pewpew is still more pewpew and only 1 copy of it is sadface.jpg
 * Do you run this bar or is it something you just thought would be cool to say whilst theorcrafting? Soi Sticker 02:42, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Dervishes
We should change them with this ,shouldn't we?  Maciej  Talk  13:30, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * They'd be better if you weren't balling foes, but most foes in pve arrive pre-balled, and so VoS is the better option imo. (e.g. I can kill a small mob of 3 Hm quest titans with one usage of MoP in about 3 seconds with VoS, sins would take a lot longer + die due to overexposure.) <font face="Calibri" color=black>Chieftain Alex  13:50, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Dervish can trigger MoP three times as much in one swing than an assassin and have more durability (All that extra armour from Mysticism and Windwalkers) Soi Sticker 19:45, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * No. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 23:14, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * They should really be locust fury sins! (not)Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">I smite thee <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 23:34, March 4 2012 (UTC) 23:34, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Still fun.
Still blows up shit like nothing else. <font face="Constantia" color=#D2691E>Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx 08:54, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Archive?
I'm taking a look at some of the lower rated 7 hero comps. I think a cleanup will help increase the quality of the builds on PvX. --Xanshiz (talk) 08:34, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree ZStepmother (talk) 09:59, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Chieftainalex did a hard mode version titan quest with this – granted, with a conset, but still. This speaks a lot in favour of the build. Have you tested the team and received results that would justify the archival? --Krschkr (talk) 11:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call doing a 6Man quest with a party of 8 + a conset a big accomplishment. I don't feel like testing teams like this, when I already know the result. Its going to be much worse than the bip teams / triple esurge. I might even be bold enough to claim that Build:Team - 5 Hero Mesmerway is better than this team.
 * The team runs melee heroes, which is already questionable, but at least it runs the best kind.
 * The Panic bar is alright, but it still runs Drain Delussions.
 * The Illusion bar is... meh.
 * IV is just not a good skill for heroes.
 * The sos and ST look alright.
 * The equipment setups are not good at all.
 * The page makes it seem like you should only run this team when playing that specific player bar, so it's not an universal team at all.
 * If it's not archive worthy (which I would disagree with), at least it should recieve a "Rewrite" tag, after which it will get tagged as abbandoned because nobody will bother with updating it. This team is a fossil from the past, and does not live up to the standards of today. ZStepmother (talk) 14:27, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That's not just any party size 6 quest, as you should be aware. It's among the hardest quests in the game and even when starting from the temple of ages it's not trivial. If you can do the quest with the linked party size 6 team and without a conset, good job. --Krschkr (talk) 15:01, 4 June 2020 (UTC)