Archive talk:Team - GvG Dual Ranger

About time. The problem with this atm is that it doesn't go well with the meta. There's so many things that counter condi pressure. --Tab  Moo  10:50, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I have an AP Euro test on friday and 3 criminal law assignments due tomorrow. i had to something with my free time instead of doing work. I stopped playing gw so whats the meta like that this would be hampered by it? --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 10:53, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Foul Feast/Plague sig, party heals on the flagger, more people starting to run Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]Tab  Moo  10:55, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Ahh. Should i twiddle the mel's rangers attributes? i dont see a need for 14 expertise, and more debil and bleeding is good. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 10:57, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * D-shot foul feast. Lord of all tyria 10:58, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Any non euro ranger should run 14 exp. You need it to spam savage on charge. NICE SUGGESTION BTW. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]Tab  Moo  10:59, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Wouldn't you need badass brave skills for that?  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 10:59, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Lord's suggestion is just the sort of forward thinking this world needs. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 11:00, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * D-shot is the answer to any questions asked of a build. You have 2 copies of it. Victory is assured unless they gale your d-shot. Lord of all tyria 11:01, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Lies. Could a Dslasher(oh god euro joke) or Coward Sword be better than the dev hammer here or no? --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 11:02, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Bstrike>Coward. Dslasher is better if you have a bad war. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]Tab  Moo  11:03, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Run Cripslash for epic winsauce.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:08, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Overlapping conditions on a shitty sword bar is the path to success, obviously. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 11:09, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Cripslash is far from shitty.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:10, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC)Barbed>Melandru's? Another elite attack skill would compensate for being easily interrupted imo. Cripslash isn't that bad, but not as good as other warriors. &not; Klump eet  11:11, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * People can just wand barbed arrows. Melandru's also gets +damage vs enchanted targets. Lord of all tyria 11:12, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * People can just wand barbed arrows. Melandru's also gets +damage vs enchanted targets. Lord of all tyria 11:12, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Just pointing this out - Build discussion pages are not intended to be a scrubfest. Hammer/Dslash/second axe is better than Cripslash here.
 * Barbed is bad, Mels is gud. There's not much else to replace it anyway. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]Tab  Moo  11:13, 6 May 2008 (EDT)


 * (EC)Ye, cuz wands shoot arrows, rite?  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:13, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * In all seriousness you may want to leave the conversation before you make a bigger fool of yourself. read the interrupt clause on barbed arrows. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 11:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Tbh, i too, didnt know what to think when someone said just wand barbed arrows, just because in the back of your head its apply poison but then with bleeding. --Rimo 11:56, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Zzzzzz. Go find something better to do than nitpick. --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:15, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Never.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:15, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * lol, Ricky. Wands shooting arrows. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  11:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

I'll move to testing tommorrow morning around 8-9 est. carry on, but i gtg. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 11:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Rotting flesh with no taint? I kno it would only go onto frontliners, but it's still a bit of a waste and easy to interrupt too. &not; Klump  eet  11:17, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Put it up as they start to take alot of pressure. BOOM. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:17, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * FF Plague Signet. BOOM.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:18, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * (gogo 8th edit conflict)Its a blowup skill. When the other team is falling back to the base you can drop a pretty much not-going-to-get-interrupted rotting to kill off stragglers while the warriors cut through them. you dont use it as a pressure skill unless your mad good or your balls are mad huge. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 11:19, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Of course huge balls makes all the difference. &not; Klump  eet  11:20, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Big cohones!  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:20, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * FFPS isn't going to save a poisoned, diseased, and bleeding team if their score chart is diverging the wrong way. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  11:23, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I guess.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:25, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I think I worked out how to stop foul feast earlier. Lord of all tyria 11:26, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Ye. Sit on its face.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 11:28, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Sig of Hum would solve that, but nowhere to put it.  06:30, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Not really, it's Foul that's the problem, not Plague. Fortunately though, people seem to be ditching necros and going back to eurospike now defence has been buffed up. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  06:33, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * True, but at least it would stay on their team.  06:35, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Doesn't matter if it's all on one person. You're still giving the necro massive energy gain to spam weakness at you. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  06:36, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Ehhm, looks manly all in all but I dont rly like the para, maybe plague signet necro is better for such team, no? --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  14:36, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Plague Sig Necro is gay. The Para is more pressure.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 14:39, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Plague Sig is more defense/VoD power based. Doesn't really fit with the all or nothing play style here. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  14:54, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh I see now, I thought the Desease would hurt you team too but you have never surrender there, so basically when you get below 75% here! you have an unstrippable +4 health regen, quite clever. Wont the Rt/A flagger work better here for moar splinter weapon? :) --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  15:11, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Possibly, but this has some of the only anti-melee in the team, which would be very helpful. &not; Klump  eet  15:12, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Without the party heal bitch flagger, you're going to blow the fuck up even faster than them. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  15:12, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Rotting flesh para's are bad, never surrender or not. Run plague sig necro, it adds more defense then you can imagine. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  15:39, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * They aren't bad. This is a build that has been run effectively by lots of guilds in the past. The problem with it is that it's hard to run, which we've already gone over before. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  15:41, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No; they're bad if you equal it with the new plague signet necro's(they're so fucking overpowered). The rotting flesh will be interupted so easily, that it's equal to useless(if your ranger misses a 3 sec cast, you'd better take a hero). I've never seen top guilds run them in the past, only some scrubby r500 guilds who fail anyway.

Rt/As are quite good at party healing thanks to protective was kaolai, it is a good spell which also gives you a bit of nice armor too, protective was kaolai costs less and can heal more and even cast two times in a row with one second downtime. You use stances for running in this concepts, they are easter to opperate then other running skills, dark escape reduces the ammound of damage you take by two which is also very very good. To protect your squishie ass you use weapon of warding - and unstreppable 50% block + good regen, it iks very good both for you and your monks. As an rt/A flagger you can budd up your manly melee and steanroll stuff even faster then you would have blown them up. I have seen how quadry war works in HA and was quite impressed, physicals blow, splinter and AR should make it even better, and it does. /discuss --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  16:38, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No they're not. Every 15 secs a small 70 heal isn't good enough in this build, some times(when your monks are under pressure) you'd want to pump out all your energy to hp(like hp 5 times). That's not possible with kaolei. Also, this build is created to have wiped teams far before vod occurs(if the match isn't decided before 12 minutes, you're doing it wrong, this is a wipe - or get wiped build) so the splinter and ancestors are near useless. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  06:58, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Most of that either didn't make sense, was wrong, or was stating the obvious. Kaolai is not enough party healing for a build with no defence whatsoever. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * What exactly was wrong and didnt make sense, explain. --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  17:13, 7 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Rit runners are inflexible, VoD-friendly flaggers. &mdash;  Ska K  id  17:15, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Here you just steamroll or get steamrolled right? --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  17:17, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * The Heal Party and versatile flagger will let your team push harder than with a rit. &mdash;  Ska K  id  20:08, 7 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Pretty much agree on that, heal party spam, hexes, snares, woh... fits this build well. --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  20:16, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Necro > Para
guys rly, tainted para though has some thinking behind itself is still quite not good I think, for example, it has two skills that apply dw. ehhh or not... :) --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  16:55, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Paras there for more physical pressure. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * yeahyeah, and cruel is there for damage and overall +damage pressure. Will stunning strike work? --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  17:10, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

might work, but cruel is better for spikes, stunning is about pressure imo, and you can use spear swipe if you really want daze Drownz 20:16, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

Melandru's Arrows
Are kinda QQ to me, unless bleeding is THAT good.--Relyk 19:47, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It is with poison, also, moar "under-the-radar" pressure on the targets. --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  19:49, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

idk if it is specified, but is this just for pressure? if you do have spikes, then you should probably take a taint instead of paragon for debuff. A lot of teams have blind and blurred, so the screws up the physical pressure a bit. just my 2 cents. 71.72.195.211 20:03, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Blind + blurred equals d-shot. Unless having euro rangers, you should pull it off. Also, preveiling owns vs blurred. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  07:01, 8 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Holy Veil says hi. Also, here the para > taint also, this can spike and pressure stuff to death, only problem is with how do you deal with enchies? But even so, this can outpressure vertually any prot. --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  20:13, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

IMHO Magebane + barbed arrows > melandrus arrows.--Goldenstar 22:08, 7 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Uve just said that you need two skills to match the power of mendrus, so it stays. --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  11:19, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Any bow attack skill+Barbed Arrows :D. Poison+Bleeding is what i thought.--Relyk 20:38, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

since melandru's arrows deal +dmg on enchanted foes, and ppl are always enchanted on GvG, how about bringing Sloth Hunter's Shot for spike assist? Drownz 20:19, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * If they cant heal the spike, why would u ned sloth hunters?--[[Image:Relyk Purifying Veil Sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="99CCFF">R ELYK   <font color="CCCCFF">(Talk  | <font color="99CCFF"> Edits)  18:40, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Spirit Bond
Should be on the prot, not the WoH. PS only depends on prot for duration, while spirit bond's effectiveness depends on prot. Ergo, SB goes on RC, PS goes on WoH.--Goldenstar 22:11, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Well then go change it.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 22:23, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * well, take a look at what tab has to say before you go off doing that:
 * "SB on the WoH is a combination of personal preference and synergising monk bars. I always play the WoH nowadays, and I'm far better with Sb than I am with PS, so that's the bar I also run. Additionaly to that, the RC bar is pretty energy heavy, as it's going to be focusing on key conditions and damage migitation through Guardian alot of the time, whereas the WoH doesn't have to worry about much more than landing the SB and healing up and damage that gets through. Another thing to take note of is that the standard backline I run doesn't take Infuse - which gets rid of the old reasoning in a LoD/RC backline, that both monks should have a skill focused around spike stopping. With WoH as the spike heal, you still need to prot the target first to save them, in which case it doesn't matter as much which monk SB is on." --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 09:18, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * If it's a matter of personal preference it doesn't matter anyway.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 09:19, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Anthem of weariness
Lacking a 3 second duration on burning, flame isnt that hot (lolpun). Weariness could serve to blunt the fronts and physical midline thats going to tear this build apart. opinons? oh and its also another long lasting condition to cover dw and poison. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 09:42, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Fuck yeah! /signed... pff Ill just change it naw ;) --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  11:10, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Any attempt to give this build any defence whatsoever apart from the monks is pointless. You either have no pressure and still nowhere near enough defence, or enoguh pressure to roll. Anthem of flame with 5 physicals is good pressure, especially combined with all the other stuff. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:12, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Also, covering the conditions doesn't matter. Their monks aren't going to be spamming dismiss on stacks of easily reapplied conditions. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:14, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * :P maybe somehow change attribute spread on the para so a nthem of flame gives 3 sec burn? or 2 is enough? --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  11:18, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * 1 second really doesn't matter. IIRC, the 3 second breakpoint is 12 or 13 Leadership, and you're looking at a pretty big sacrifice to reach that.
 * You're making up for the shorter duration by having more physicals to apply it. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:19, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Fair enough, not the main point of the build anyways, weakness thingie could be in the variants though. --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  11:22, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It shouldn't be a variant. A variant is an alternative that works equally well, whereas in this case one totally outclasses the other. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:23, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Weakness is offensive and defensive... Mess up breakpoints, lower effectiveness, of healing and such, and etc.--Relyk 20:40, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Foul feast
how do you have skills to rupt 1/4? (Kiron 12:05, 8 May 2008 (EDT))
 * Be awesome.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 12:05, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Scroll up. I clearly say not to run the build atm due to FF necs. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  12:06, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Bladed Aatxe can do it, why cant anyone else? &not; Klump  eet  12:07, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * If I were a Bladed Aatxe, I would totally HA.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 12:10, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Or AB! :D  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 12:10, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * ...but they removed the HM AB mode, so it wouldn't be that hax. &not; Klump  eet  12:12, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It would still be hax!  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 12:12, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

--<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  12:15, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * wut's called shot for? :P  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 21:10, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It's Strong. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  10:14, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
 * And Brave.  10:16, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
 * >>>>>>&rarr;  If you're reading this, you've just been pwned. [[Image:ExtremeSignPic.JPG|19px]]<font color="Silver"> Extreme  (<font color="Black"> Minor Changes Ftl. )(<font color="Blue"> Noob comment storage. ) 23:23, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

HA?
wouldnt this be good for HA also?--IM BLUE! 17:45, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * GvG builds are never good for HA.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 17:44, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * was thinkin cause of good e denial pressure interupts and 3 monk backline lol.--IM BLUE! 17:46, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Do you know GvG at all? The third monk is a runner, lol.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 17:48, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No, it wouldn't. WAY too fragile for HA, and two debil shots isn't going to do that much in HA with channeling. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  10:16, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
 * In HA you got two kind of builds: The defensive ones and the offensive ones. Rangers in HA is for spiking. This in HA is just plain weak in the most aspects and bad. God  box   11:48, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No, you'r wrong. The types of builds are spike and pressure, in ha people are bad in combining it in a balanced build. They either use a overkill spike build(A/D with a few rodgort's) or overkill pressure(3 ranger with big scythes). Both are pretty gay, and are oshit-more-passive-and-overkill-heals and still get wiped due being bad. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  12:21, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Ye? But it's the meta. God  box   14:00, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Proper gay, though.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 14:01, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * But we all love rangers with big fucking scythes. God  box   14:02, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * That's probably the gay part.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 14:03, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Scythe=keyword for something else? God  box   13:43, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

Update
This needs a changed. Run Barbed instead now, on a Magebane? idk... 23:03, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Makes sense. But you lose +damage fun from Melandru's Arrows though. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:48, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Barbed arrows update changes nothing. If you had NS up they wouldn't interupt it anyway; as wanding is 1.75 sec. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  04:18, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It does change things. As against a no defence, condition pressure build like this, they'll be aiming to shut down you conditions, you're going to be forced to fall back to put up barbed alot of the time. You don't really want to be falling back every 18 seconds in a build like this. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  04:20, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * The cripshot should get barbed. w/o mendign you cant split it haphazardly, so put poison on the splitting ranger. also, the energy from 4 bow attacks hurts less with barbed. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 13:14, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Cripshot Ranger Attributes
They're a bit messed up. Instead of putting a major rune on the lowest attribute, put it on the highest attribute and make it an 11/10/10 split. That way, you end up with 1 more point in Wilderness Survival at no cost. The same goes for the paragon, but I'm not sure how the attribute split should end up XD. 76.93.173.1 02:39, 1 July 2008 (EDT)