Build talk:E/any Air Magic Hero

As unoriginal as it gets, but hopefully something to replace the good ol' Invoke. Like a less damaging but more spammable Ineptitude mesmer. Fianchetto 19:50, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks pretty decent to me. Gives the ele at least somewhat of a different build to play in PvE. Only soooo many viable options for them      these days. Fritzdude18 22:59, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd rather run Gust as a player, but there you are. Kracatoan 23:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I dislike "Stand Your Ground!" or the idea of investing for Spirit Rift, but whatever. The build seems good enough to be voted on. Maybe someone at some point can separate hero and player optionals. Cuilan 00:53, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Or remove the player bar-- Relyk 02:48, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Or remove the hero bar. Cuilan 20:11, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Enfeebling Blood, Weaken Armor, MoP. Hero only yesplz. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 02:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * agree. ele player should be frontline balling or AP/SF/Rodgort's. and only reason to take a Bsurge hero is to free up Ineptitude for the tons of other great mesmer elites (Bsurge + Fevered anyone?). edit away. Fianchetto 04:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'd want to be the one balling in a group or when with someone else's heroes. Cuilan 00:51, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Revamp (new elite?)
[build prof=E/Mo air=12 ene=9 hea=3][Thunderclap][Chain Lightning][Arc Lightning][Shock Arrow][Optional][Optional][Air Attunement][Aura of Restoration][/build] Or if not, at least Arc Lightning is good enough for mainbar. -- Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx 18:38, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Update
I plan to make this build a bit more general in the suggested air magic skills, but thin out the utility skills, as seen in User:Krschkr/Builds/22 (edit: released and re-merged into this page). Any objections? --Krschkr (talk) 19:27, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The mainbar looks too 'thin' on that for me. I'd rather Bsurge has it's own page (due to it's anti-melee purpose), making Thunderclap the mainbar elite of a second page with Lightning Surge listed as a variant for boss foes. -Toraen (talk) 08:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok, making a new separate page. --Krschkr (talk) 11:07, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Subsequent discussion
This is more like it. I'd even say that Aura would be an optional tbh. Secondary professions are listed in the order that I'd take them, shouts if I don't have them yet (so most of the time it's /P secondary), curses if I already have the shouts (not with Thunderclap, but from my experience Invoke outdamages Thunderclap, altho I didnt test it that much) and mesmer if I already have Curses/Shouts (I do play with a BiP tho, so I don't know how good/bad his energy is. It should be fine if you take Power Spike + 1 other dom spell. This is all for heroes tho, I don't want to put in more work atm in case you don't like these changes. For players there are definitely some different skill choices ZStepmother (talk) 09:40, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Suggesting curses sounds odd to me. If you want to have weakness and cracked armor you go for thunderclap, if not you go for blinding surge/invoke lightning/skills unmentioned because they're unfavoured. :p But anyway, I'd like to see the merge happen, so go for it. --Krschkr (talk) 16:41, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Mmm yeah okay good point on the curses, Ill just remove that section. Any other thoughts, more optionals or anything you disagree on? What's your opinion on the best hero ele build? From what Ive tested Invoke is the best in damage, compared to Thunderclap and some Fire magic builds (altho I maybe should test the damage compared to Fire a bit more, but Im pretty sure that Fire not having that 25% ArPen hurts a lot and makes it not worth to bring). Ive also tested out those ER Wastrels spammers, but from what Ive seen heroes don't spam as much as you'd like and they cast it on random targets and the damage really isnt there (not to mention that they are worthless if ER gets stripped). I think Air Magic is the way to go for Elementalist builds. ZStepmother (talk) 08:43, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I chose less optional skills and instead more skill variants because very flexible build cores (even with instructions on how to set it up fittingly) aren't seen with much love here. Add a comment that using secondary profession support skills drains plenty of energy, so BiP support is advisable. Suggest a 40/20/20 air magic for protection prayers users. Less lofty introduction, it's sufficient to say that it's a build which deals AoE damage in a small area and suffers less from armor levels than other elementalists.
 * My personal opinion on thunderclap/blinding surge vs. invoke lightning is that due to the great similarity of chain lightning and invoke lightning thunderclap's utility is always worth more. In some cases blinding surge's if physical shutdown is required; and mind you, blinding surge's damage is really good itself! At least on a player who uses it on actually attacking foes. R.I.P. eastern frontier! ;)
 * But yes, I'd agree that no matter which of the three (to four) elite skills you pick, air magic will usually be the best choice for heroes unless special mechanics are required, such as searing flame's burning spam, earth magic defense or plenty of water magic snares (which is extremely powerful as heroes, other than players, do kite – but with the great backline options it's usually just not needed and for Moddok Crevice deep freeze on a warrior will do). Ether renewal for damage dealing purposes is kind of meh, the best mesmer skills require fast casting to be great, such as mistrust. Wastrel's skills don't work well with heroes. Death magic is only good for primary necromancers and mesmers. So air magic is the best damage option I see for elementalist heroes. But it's not a good wiki style to proclaim on a build page that it's the very best or uber or whatever; we should describe what things do, what they work well with and what they won't work well with. --Krschkr (talk) 11:18, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Old votes
"Too bad outdated votes drag this under a great rating." (Juniper real's vote) If you think that because of the extensive changes to the build page this june the old votes should get removed because they can't account for the improvements, you could suggest a votewipe. But I won't give it a 5 in effectivity, so even with the 3 remaining votes from ZStepmother, you and me it'd only be in good. You'd need a third 5/5 rating to have this end up in great. --Krschkr (talk) 16:01, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
 * sure, I do think that. Is it enough to suggest a vote wipe here? The 2012 discussion and contemporary voting involves player-based use, and this no longer applies; I personally suggest a vote wipe. Juniper real (talk) 19:08, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Viperblossom's vote should be removed on the basis of profanity.--Saxazaxx (talk) 19:17, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Just wipe the old votes.Willarddog (talk) 19:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * In light of the changes to the build page in 2018 to 2020 I've removed the majority of votes from 2012. --Krschkr (talk) 13:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Question: didy you forget to remove that 1 remaining 2012 vote, or what it on purpose? If so, why did you leave that one? ZStepmother (talk) 16:53, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Thunderclap Domination
What I've been using recently instead of 2 mesmers leveling through nightfall, because I only have Gwen. Brings fantastic shutdown, deals great damage, and isn't too rough on energy. Depending on situation/teamcomp I've been switching out power spike for either Aura of Resto (cover enchant for kourna...) or res sig (however I primarily only run fomf on gwen + ST[disabled] for rezzes). I don't have 40/40 and don't have access to craft them, so I've been using some generic +hp+energy green staves in storage, hence the major rune. Otherwise I'd go 9+1 ES 9 Dom with 40/40. No reason to run command shouts here when you have a MM. As a last side note, I've had terrible experiences with Arc Lightning, based on my own observations heros use it horribly with no consideration for exhaustion or not.

I'm also considering running 2 of those with res sig, and then 1 bsurge w/ command, adding fallback on the ST, and dropping blood bond on BiP for FoMF (disabled); because "MM slow" meme. The downside to that is that both "Incoming!" and Putrid Explosion are really great to have on the team for a melee player; for the IMS and Heros absolutely slay with putrid explosion. Maybe I should keep one ele /P and look into a N/Me w/out minions...

All in all this is not really any significant change to the build meta, but more just a comment on some ways in which I've used air eles in general pve. Because MM + shouts is so prolific in the meta, IMO a /Me mainbair is more applicable. Willarddog (talk) 22:05, 4 December 2020 (UTC)