Build talk:Me/any PvE Energy Surge

since this is still used in general PvE and SC's and the old one got trashed, because some guys disliked the optional or sth like that. Illoyon 11:24, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * nice attributes. I always use chaos storm on the bar, never cared for CoP. should mainbar overload, I generally use to fuel unnatural signet and shatter delusions, then AI or drain delusions for energy management.-- Relyk 11:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC)


 * fixed attributes...i think CoP should stay, because i would bring chaos storm on heroes...since they cant bring CoP. Made Overload optional to keep the build more "open"...and if you play with real mesmers you probably dont need it. Illoyon 11:02, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * True, I've ran backfire and WD in the past. Overload just seems optimal.-- Relyk 20:39, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

ratings
this needs some. Illoyon 11:43, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * auspicious goes better with arcane echo than it does with deep freeze. Just saying. Kracatoan 09:40, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * so you can't use Auspicious Incantation with Arcane Echo, because there is "+" between AI and Deep Freeze? Changed optionals to make it more clear. Illoyon 11:49, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * imo mainbar Air of Superiority on any bar with echoes that have ample room. Fianchetto 16:31, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

shit dies fast no need for it in most cases.Illoyon 18:27, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Another hex needs to be mainbar
Mistrust is not going to last long enough for CoP and Unnatural unless you waste it on a melee foe. If you're playing with heroes you don't need the primer hex yourself, but this build doesn't assume any other set team positions. -- Toraen   confer  22:03, 19 February 2012 (UTC)


 * well then mainbar overload, if you think that suits better. Illoyon 23:23, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

1.8 ratings
Rask: no reasoning at all... Danny: "I'm sorry, but no. The damage in this build is not considerable by any measure and the damage it does have comes from sacrificing *5* slots." Well i though sacrificing slots for dmg skills is the point of dmg dealer build right? I mean wtf? Illoyon 18:08, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * these votes still fail reasoning, can somone tell me how to report that?Illoyon 06:23, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed. In the future, the PvXwiki:Admin noticeboard can be used when users don't respond to challenges to their votes, but leaving a message on that user's talk page first is a good idea. -- Toraen   confer  19:17, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * k thx.Illoyon 19:50, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, for the record if you had mentioned the changes I would have changed my vote. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 19:53, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

CoP
It's probbly not worth it, you need to gimp the whole bar to deal 50 AoE dmg + 5 degeneration. The degeneration is worthless, also you need a hex like Overload to make it work...so i am thinking of removing it from mainbar and put it in variants. Suggestion for mainbar:

Optional 1: dmg/PvEonly; Optional 2: Snare/dmg/PvEonly; Optional 3:Energy --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Illoyon (talk) at 20:17, 27 May 2012‎ (UTC).
 * Well you're a mesmer in pve, having a single rupt could be useful, and since CoP/CoF does damage with a big range, its an ok choice. Pdrain maybe. Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx  23:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with alex here, CoF and CoP are amazing if you know how to use them, and I'd personally encourage keeping it on the mainbar so players can at least try to learn how to rupt, and/or prioritize which skills to rupt. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 23:10, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * if you're trying to rupt, shouldn't CoF be mainbarred instead of CoP then? &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 21:57, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe so. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 01:03, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

should the mainbar stay like this?...so i can adjust the usage?Illoyon 18:21, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Backfire
It's reactive junk. If people are using it, they shouldn't. The DPS is low and for 15e, it's costly for a Dom skill. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Luther (talk &bull; contribs).


 * it is useful in DoA. Illoyon 06:19, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Usually use it with drain delusions or AI so energy isnt a problem. It'll trigger like 3-4 times in 2-3 seconds on some enemies such as healers so the damage is pretty damn good.-- Relyk 06:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Backfire is broken if you know how to use it, it comes down to player choice, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be on optionals. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 10:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Meta-Tag
Wouldn't this deserve a meta-tag? I think this build is used much more than the Assasin's Promise Mesmer-build that has a meta-tag currently. --Haquillo (talk) 09:56, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 * To be honest I've never seen the AP bar ingame, which raises suspicion towards its meta tag. --Krschkr (talk) 16:10, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Same here, but I didn't want to assume it isn't used just because I had never seen it used --Haquillo (talk) 16:16, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 * in my experience, AP mes has seen meta level frequency over the years Juniper real (talk) 16:32, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It was meta before all the mesmer buffs which happened quite a while ago. Still a decent build, not sure if meta anymore though. Sonofthort (talk)
 * If it was meta about 8 years ago and most of us haven't seen it in the recent past frequently or at all it doesn't sound like it's meta anymore. Energy surge and panic, on the other hand, are pretty frequently stumbled upon. --Krschkr (talk) 21:23, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems fair to me. I suppose we should remove it then. Sonofthort (talk)

Serpent's Quickness Variant
I'd like to add this BiP dependent bar to the build namespace as an even simpler energy surge variant. Do you think it should be a variantbar or get its own page (and thus its own votes)? --Krschkr (talk) 02:29, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it should get its own page for a two reasons: 1. You can't play it without a BiP at all. 2. You can't have more than 2 of these in a team with just 1 BiP. It deviates from the main build too much (requirements in team composition and play style). It's more straightforward to have it under a dedicated page and it avoids clutter. As a name I suggest something like "Me/R Simple Serpents Surge" --Vegetaledefender (talk) 00:24, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Only two per team? Hmm, I think you could do four of them if you make sure that people use mind wrack on different targets. It shouldn't strain the BiP that much – but we can test that the other day. After all we have a couple of readily available mesmers in the alliance. Simple Serpent's Surge sounds quite florid and contains neither of the skill names. It'd probably be good to keep energy surge intact. Maybe it'd make sense to move Me/any PvE Energy Surge to Me/any Echo Energy Surge (couldn't be confused with the PvP build anymore) and the new one to Me/R Quickness Energy Surge. Or one to energy surge spiker, one to energy surge pressure? --Krschkr (talk) 01:55, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe I should have been more precise: I feel that there's a demise in effectiveness (i.e. damage output, compared to a standard E-Surge) of the overall team if more than two Me-R E-Surges are relying on a single BiP. If I'm the only one running this build, the BiP can support me, with another player using the same build, both start running into energy problems more often. This is kind of anecdotal though, since I haven't properly tested it. It's just a mere observation. Apart from my concerns with this, it should be noted that energy is generally the limiting factor of this build, not recharge time, so maybe that should be taken into consideration when running tests. I think a good way to test this would be to start with a team of Energy Surgers, and replacing them with Me-R Surges one at a time while comparing damage output of the team. --Vegetaledefender (talk) 16:08, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, if you really happen to have five Me/R energy surges you can probably afford to run a three character backline (dual BiP) without sacrificing speed. I agree that we should do some tests as you described them. If it turns out that more than two of these per team cause diminishing returns that should be a note on a potential build page. --Krschkr (talk) 17:49, 17 January 2020 (UTC)