Archive talk:Rt/E WoQ Support Ritualist

discussion
Um, by 'anything that looks like it' (referring to staff), you do mean anything with similar stats, right? Not anything with a Staff of the Forgotten skin? &mdash; Azaya 18:14, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Anything with simiar stats, might have made a typo there sorry. Tomoko 08:24, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

More channeling, less spawning power or communing. Tycn 08:25, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Around 13? Tomoko 08:47, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Looks good now. Tycn 09:48, 25 September 2007 (CEST)


 * This support rit lacks support. WTB Heals. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:29, 4 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Ofcourse one don't understand the build, why put Restoration Magic in a Communing Channeling Build?? i don't agree with you Tomoko 12:20, 4 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Because heals are good. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:30, 5 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Hmm sure lets put 7 Restoration in a useless Healing Spell... Tomoko 09:09, 5 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Better than the three useless Energy boosts you have in there now. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:33, 6 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Well seems you only see the energy part, little armor boost, health boost and yes energy boost, no i don't agree on spending 7-8 restoration on 1 healing spell, if you have a spell on Communing or Channeling i will check it out. Tomoko 21:27, 6 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Another thing you don't seem to understand is that this build does not "belong" to you. Any user may edit this page as they please, if they wish to improve the build. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:09, 7 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Did i said something like that? ^^, anyway it looks very good now, my personal compliments. Tomoko 11:42, 7 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Removed GDW from alts as it is in main build. A rage appears to be glitched, shows that it does 23 damage, I dont know how to fix. ZanarovZanarov 01:33, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Where more
I need extra help on this, i used this only in PvE now but where does this work more? i had no time to test that and I'm on my work now, so if anyone can test this for me ;) Tomoko 08:56, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

No, this is kinda too unfocused to work anywhere outside PvE. And heroes kinda fail at something as complicated as this. Tycn 09:48, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Well actually Razah is able to do Splinter and Warmonger at me, but you need to help him once a while like maintaining Vital Weapon before battle, i agree that he is stupid to use Splinter on a Caster. Tomoko 09:59, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I doubt that they would use WoQ on themselves and casters. I think the Splinter thing is because of casters wielding martial weapons, but that can't be gotten around because staves suck and wands are almost as bad. Tycn 10:03, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * You don't know the use of WoQ then, he only maintain WoQ on himself and that's how this build works, it really isn't a problem since you can spam the spells and he won't use a Weapon Spell if that ally allready has a Weapon Spell. Tomoko 10:28, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * If they only maintain WoQ on themselves, it's practically a wasted elite. It helps nukers, monks, just about all other casters too. Tycn 12:34, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * No, read my article again, they can spam, Splinters on the melee and ranged and they can maintain Warmonger. Like i decribed it's a support that spams Weapon Spells to interrupt and deal damage to close groups to trigger Splinter. BTW i never seen him using WoQ on allies but he might did that when i didn't looked what he was doing, i will keep my eye on this and test this more information on the way. But still even so this build works because the Ritualist can spam it's Weapon Spells to support the damage dealers and boost up the casters like the Monks Tomoko 13:02, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I know what the main point of the build is, but spamming WoQ on the monks and nukers can be pretty hax too. A human can do that, a hero can't. Tycn 13:06, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes your right I'm removing the Hero tag Tomoko 14:28, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

Vital Weapon
Doesn't look like it's doing much, since it doesn't stack with WoQ. How about Essence Strike for energy management, or Wielder's Strike/Spirit Burn for some minor damage? Tycn 14:37, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I know, since i just found that out you could cast WoQ on allies -.- that's all the information i needed thank you ;) Tomoko 18:41, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

Any Comments?
Anyone have comments to this build? Tomoko 16:32, 1 October 2007 (CEST)


 * This build needs e-management. WoQ is only helpful if used on more then yourself. Essence won't cut it and MwV acts like Endure Pain and adds temporary bonuses. You can still go into the negatives, especially with Empowerment being up, so you need to figure a better way or simply bring a BiPer everywhere you go. -- Mah sa  01:48, 6 October 2007 (CEST)
 * MwV provides temporary bonuses? I didn't know 30>48. :) Lord Belar 21:34, 6 October 2007 (CEST)
 * So... if i'm understanding correctly, spamming WoQ on all casters will indeed cost alot of energy, but you only cast it on a monk or 2 and an ele or 2, Essence is for constant small boosts and the Items and Spirit Spell are for big needs Tomoko 23:50, 6 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes, it's fine as is. Lord Belar 02:18, 7 October 2007 (CEST)
 * MwV and Empowerment are not very useful in general. Since your main goal is to spam weapon spells, something as simple as Glyph of Lesser Energy would provide superior E-Management in both terms of speed and energy. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:35, 7 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I believe that is why GoLE is in variants. Lord Belar 03:36, 7 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I wasn't referring to "variants". &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:38, 7 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Much better. :) Lord Belar 03:55, 7 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes, MwV provides a temporary boost. Let it drop and you will see all that energy go. If you kept up Endure Pain you wouldn't notice the health loss from the skill dropping, and your monk wouldn't freak out when your health suddenly drops to almost nothing. -- Mah sa  04:47, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Your rambling makes no sense.
 * 1.MwV doesn't have to be dropped.
 * 2.MwV isn't in the build anymore.
 * 3.Wtf are you saying about endure pain? Endure has to go down at some point, and no one suggested endure for this build.
 * Lord Belar 05:03, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Endure Pain was an example. Endure Pain temporarily boosts health while MwV does energy, so its a good example to use since so many know what happens when the bonus from Endure Pain ends. And yeah, the build is already vetted, but I wanted to stat why MwV is poor e-management. You gotta be a dick though? -- Mah sa  05:10, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * MwV, like energy storage for example, isn't energy management. It's an energy buffer. Tycn 06:43, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Both stop blabbing each other off, I agree with Tycn and Mahsa, MwV was for a boost and you need to maintain it and drop it between battles and then restore. Tomoko 15:51, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Shouldn't the assasin be included for the casting of splinter weapon and warmonger's weapon? I just think it would make sense because assassins would get the most interuppts with the fast attack rate. Panda Man 05:06, 19 November 2007 (CET)

changes suggestion
I went and tested this build "as is" fairly thoroughly and noticed on a hero (Xandra) will spam WoQ regardless of its remaining duration, I mean literally back to back castings if its possible for her to do so. This puts a huge strain on her energy and in my opinion is a major flaw in the build. I made the following modifications and never have an issue with energy:
 * 1. Drop communing entirely. In its place max out Spawning/Channeling both to 12 before runes.
 * 2. You recommended superior spawning, I chose to run major spawning on the head with a major channeling on another piece. This should bring the total to 15 Channeling and 14 Spawning.
 * 3. Drop Essence Strike, Bloodsong, Weapon of Quickening, and replace them with Energetic was Lee Sa, Spirit Rift and Wielder's Zeal. At 14 spawn, Splinter weapon is now free and warmongers costs 1/2.
 * 4. Never use Flesh of My Flesh on a hero...the AI particularly when it comes to rezing is horrendously stupid in GW. Put a rez sig on and let the monks worry about soft rez.

Finally, I use full radiant, with attunements where possible along with a minor vigor and the attrib runes previously mentioned. For a weapon I chose Alsin's Walking Stick, its readily available and has a decent skin unlike most rit staves which are rarer and tend to be exorbitant in cost.

Test my changes and watch the heroes bar, provided you don't get hammered by interrupts or denial I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how efficiently it works.

On a side note, I have never once observed a hero using Ancestors' Rage on the party. It could just be rare but the skill seems to be completely ignored by the AI. Unless you plan to micromanage and target them yourself you may want to consider swapping this skill out for Wielder's Strike, Renewing Surge, or Nightmare Weapon depending on whether you want more direct damage or additional (free) 5e weapon spells for your hero to spam at will. 24.30.47.200 22:01, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * 1 word, No, if you use it on your hero and it would recast it on herself then Micro it and disable if you find that needed. This build is made for WoQ, please don't talk about Lee Sa further no comments, this build is PERFECT as it is, but like you probably seen this build is rather hard to use, let alone a her, but Rapta is convinced that Heroes are able to use this as well, if you disagree go to him not on this talkpage. End Discussion Tomoko 22:39, 10 October 2007 (CEST)


 * This is a build discussion page buddy, and thats what I am doing. Your build does not work on heroes as is period unless you want to micro their bar.  Your build is not perfect and while it may function fine in a players hands it simply does not perform as is on a heroes bar.  I suggest further testing on your part or remove the hero tab altogether.
 * In fact you agreed yourself already the hero tag should be removed, and I quote "Yes your right I'm removing the Hero tag Tomoko 14:28, 25 September 2007 (CEST)". Might want to go ahead and do that buddy cause heroes can't handle this build. 24.30.47.200 01:38, 11 October 2007 (CEST)
 * A lot of builds that are tagged for Heroes are false. I agree, this build is too complicated for hero use. -- Mah sa  05:17, 11 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Because you are so naief, go to Rapta Talk Page and look at my question to him!, HE ADDED the tag not me! So leave me out of it and don't edit the page if you were planning to 213.124.168.231 14:35, 11 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Your build was vetted as "great" as an overall rating. If someone added "NFT Unknown" to the tabs would you keep it claiming this build is a "great" build for NFT? Of course not.  This build does not work on heroes, you have 2 people telling you so on the build discussion page due to AI issues with heroes.  What happens on a user talk page is irrelevant to this discussion.  By the way, name calling is petty and juvenile if you don't want criticism of your baby then heres a suggestion...don't post builds on PvX. 24.30.47.200 16:27, 11 October 2007 (CEST)
 * First off, I won't change anything regarding "your" build. Secondly, I don't rely on ratings/tags to figure out whether or not I will use/try a build. I've used WoQ on heroes before and never liked it. If you use this on your hero and like it, good for you. -- Mah sa  18:44, 11 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Both must know this... scroll up and look at the conversation of me and Tycn... then go to Rapta's userpage and see his talkpage.. if you disagree on Hero Tag move to him and not to me, he will probably explain why he added the Hero Tag back. Tomoko 20:19, 12 October 2007 (CEST)

this build is in violation with PvX policy
"A build is clearly inferior to another build if it performs less adequately under all circumstances than a comparable build. "

This build is CLEARLY inferior to a build that uses essence of celerity. --Thc 03:05, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Essence of celerity is not a skill, and thus is not counted when a build is considered. Also, please actually read PvX policy before crying foul. Lord Belar 03:11, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * So wrong. — Skakid9090 03:09, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * How am I wrong? WoQ on 3~ of your teammates, realistically, or essence of celerity on all your teammates + free elite slot?  --Thc 03:19, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Someone give me a facepalm picture. This guy saw one of the fake skills made for whoever's Design A New Skill contest and thinks it's real.  THERE IS NO REAL SKILL NAMED ESSENCE OF CELERITY.  IT IS A WORK OF FICTION. --InternetLOL 03:28, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I think he may be talking about the asura consumable. Lord Belar 05:29, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * No...talking about DE's contest...this build is not very good anyways. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 05:43, 12 October 2007 (CEST)

I'm talking about the PvE skill that doesn't take up a space on your skill bar and is actually not a skill and costs 50 feathers, glittering dust and 250 gold. FACE PALM LOL. You don't play PvE do you? So don't comment. --132.236.59.100 05:45, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * See? I was right. He still doesn't understand though. Either that or he's trolling. Lord Belar 05:47, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Instead of being an ass, how about you link me to the policy that states PvE consumables will not be considered in the rating of builds. I cannot find it.  What I was hoping for (and I know, I was hoping for too much) was some clarification on how PvE only content factors in to the rating of PvE builds.  OBVIOUSLY, in accordance with PvX:Well the ability to have partywide -25% skill recharge up all the time completely obsoletifies this build.  Or at the very least, the reason for taking WoQ as an elite.  Again, I implore you: stop being an ass.  How about telling me how I am wrong instead of being an ass.  --Thc 09:25, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Who is going to rely on a consumbable for the duration of their GW PvE experience? That is the purpose behind a good build. -- Mah sa  09:43, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * "obsoletifies"? I think this guy is just trolling. Or maybe he just likes violating PvX:NPA. Lord Belar 17:34, 12 October 2007 (CEST)

Why not? the cost of a consumable is say around 800g. you have 8 players in a party. So it costs you 200g an hour to maintain celerity indefinitely. Less, actually because you don't need it for every single encounter. I hardly see that as taxing on one's gold supply. The increased speed, and thus drops, it's actually MORE economical to use celerity all the time. --Thc 20:51, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Wrong again. — Skakid9090 21:52, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I think its a good thing to add new features (consumables), but when people start to rely on them its rather sad. And uh... its more economical to just not suck, then to use a consumable. -- Mah sa  21:59, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * So we don't need to use consumables. The end. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:18, 12 October 2007 (CEST)

HAI GUISE DIS BUILD IZ SUX VS ANY BUILD DAT USES ESSENCE MIRITE? OWAIT DIS BUILD CAN UZE ESSENCE TOO ELL OH ELL OH ELL! -- Armond Warblade 05:23, 19 November 2007 (CET)

Well, I say not to combine them due to the one being a "special build" for an Imbagon team... So if we combine them we lost the hero build

Build
this looks like a definate try build and when i get my rit to level 20, i amd going to use this build. Thank you very much and i appreciate you putting this together :) Riff 07:09, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * That's what PvX is here for. :) Also, if you like/dislike a build, you can rate it. Just go to the build page, and click on the "rate" tab. Lord Belar 17:37, 12 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Hehe no problem, i thought of this build my accident though, i was looking at some skills in Guildwiki and I saw WoQ and i went here to see if there were any WoQ builds and so i started further on :) Tomoko 20:16, 12 October 2007 (CEST)

Clean Up
I cleaned up some of ur notes, and added in one for Ancestors' Rage. Dean 18:03, 14 October 2007 (CEST)

Hero or no Hero?
So where did this build end up? There seems to be a lot of discussion against the Hero tab being applicable for this build... should the tab stay or go? --Yamat 15:57, 27 December 2007 (EST)

Warmongers
Nurfed with the 17/01/08 update - 30sec recharge just seems way too long for a mere 14.something seconds worth of usage..unless your busy kicking 30kinds of spagetti out of a boss for generic normal PvE use fights are usually over in less then 30secs but even if the fight does drag on even having it cast on 2 ppl seems a bit tedious & a waste of time aswell as a waste of slot.

im not desputing that its a bad skill. it does its job once its been cast but if your gonna cast it on one person per fight then really whats the point??? functionality wise id say this has taken a 40-50% hit. its just not as usefull as it once was 62.56.99.77 20:33, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Except it still wtfpwns skill usage for 14 seconds. The nerf only really matters in pvp, where it was imba anyways. Lord Belar 19:23, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Suggested health
Know this is an older build, but...how are you going to have 600 health and be running superior runes?... Not logged onto my Rit in awhile, but I'm pretty sure her base health is too low to make that possible. Only class I can readily think of that'd be remotely possible on is a warrior. -Ruse 23:18, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Warriors have the same base health as everyone else, only dervishes get extra health. Superior runes aren't on here because they're bad. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:00, 2 February 2008 (EST)

WoF & WoQ: Merge to create Spirit-Free "Weapon Support" Ritualist?
An anon edited the build, but I feel it would be best to discuss possible changes first, since the build is already vetted. Here's what they posted:

Toraen TheJanitor 08:50, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The Weapon Spells that are the core of build remains untouch. I only dropped the Essence Strike+Vamp/Blood combo in favor of: 1) Dulled Weapon - A communing skill with damage reduction. 2) Renewing Surge - e-management skill with support deals damage. Both are do NOT require the presence of spirits, which I feel is appropriate for a Rit build thats the does NOT need summoned creatures and/or spirit support-skills to function as Great. This makes it vary easy to join party with 3+ Ritualists already: Mobile Spirits (using Bloodsong/Vampirism), Defensive Spirits, Explosive Bomber, etc. If you rather keep one of the spirits, Essence Strike, Gaze from Beyond, Spirit Burn, Lamentation, ect. are all reliant useful support skills that require spirits. On a side not, the Above topic is long overdue and self explanatory. --96.240.34.47 09:17, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * merge bucle http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Rt/any_WoF_Support_Ritualist --37er 10:56, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the above bar, I'd get rid of GoLE and add Anguished was Lingwah. Make hexes more effective, efficient on the energy, it just works better with that bar. Weapon of Awesome 17:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)