Archive talk:Mo/A AP Boon-Prot

Obviously not a bad idea, but I would concentrate on either prot rather than healing. Since you have Seed on the bar, you'd already be a hybrid healer and healing skills don't need to be recharged as much as prot would be. 17:10, 9 July 2009

Something like this:

Gogo, cheap protting with great heal support. 17:15, 9 July 2009
 * Needs moar divine boon.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 00:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * i could only really fit divine boon in if i dropped kiss+patspirit and took boon + rof and that means more energy intensive and less spam of protspirit. And thats much more fragile if you bork AP or get Selfless removed, and end up been a Boon'd Rof spammer as your burning thru energy way faster. Kiss + patspirit is much more stable in that situation. but i will consider that, and appreciate the feedback &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 00:55, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Something like this with PS over something. Selfless would work too.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 01:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

[build prof=Mo/A div=12+1+1 deadly=9 pro=9+1][Assassin's Promise][Reversal of Fortune][Seed of Life][Shield of Absorption][Deny Hexes][Divine Spirit][Aegis][Divine Boon][/build]
 * Thats pretty much the the heavier prot version i run when the other monk is heavier on heals(eg decides to run Hb). tho i still find it a little more fragile if you fail your ap. (selfless for divine and ps for deny hex)&gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually kind of like divine because it means you can actually heal yourself. That bar(or a variation there of), is basically the only pure prot bar you should ever run in pve. Even then, it should stay in general pve.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 02:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Needs prot spirit. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 16:31, 10 July 2009

Aegis
counts as casting on yourself, so Selfless has to go. ··· 17:00, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's why they're discussing Divine Spirit. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 17:02, 10 July 2009
 * Aegis is perfectly FINE with selfless. If your stupid enough to cast selfless THEN aegis you deserve to have selfless drop, you obviously cast aegis then selfless(as stated on the usage section :/) Only really discussing Divine spirit for WHEN/IF you need to target you self for other prots or heals.(example 6 man area with only yourself monking)otherwise the double duration and half cost make selfless a better option, imo, after testing both. &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 23:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Imo
Put the full prot version on the page too, and put variants as PS and selfless/divine. --67.240.83.137 15:10, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheap prot spirit abuse is a massive upside and deserves mainbar really. But yes, Boon Prot variant added to page, as it runs different attribute spread. &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 19:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Testing
goin to move this to testing later today &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 13:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * patient spirit is bad, more ethereal light--Relyk 13:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * that's sarcasm right there's nothing in build to make ethereal cast faster to not get interrupted... 96.13.34.106 18:07, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Terrible
Outside of discord, and even so it's still meh because you are diverting your attention and attribs spec outside of your role - protting and keeping the party alive. uɐɟ ɐʞıd  o ^_^ o  ¸ « ` 18:29, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Glyph of renewal to lesson at spread [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  18:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The att spread is fine on the boon/prot version, and you could even drop the deadly spec if you wanted. GoR won't recharge the 3 skills that need it effectively. I've run the version Racthoh posted in the past, and it is probably the best general pve prot build.--67.240.83.137 19:23, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

wow
AP monk. I've seen: 1. smiting Wammos 2. Warriors running meteor shower 3. rangers running flare -_- 4. Meleemancers ( my favorite until now ) But this one has beat them all. I do get the point of this build bit.... U could manage ur energy at 183573892752385732075092723073 other MORE EFFICIENT ways... It is pretty original... but also pretty pointless... dumbest ive seen so far... just...wow
 * You are terrible. Please stop posting and uninstall gw. kthnx.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 00:52, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * thank you for making my day. Zzes Tyan 03:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Feedback
Hence the posting here and WANTING merciless fucking over of the original idea! i appreciated the WHOLE page of feedback :P even from the people to worried to sigh their comments! And the overall consensus is? The boon prot version is on the whole better? and a much better prot bar than a heal hybrid? Yeah fair enough! ill take that like a man :D..Tho i did say i run the prot heavy version and that others has used boonprot+ap in the past!(especially well know players!) so i wanted to see what everyone thogught of the heal hybrid!!, and i did say but its slightly more fragile if you fuck up!! i wanted so see the general thoughts on this :D will i bitch you all shot the idea down? jesus no :P happy people are taking the time to look and give DECENT comments :D Bars will be updated at some point when i can be bothered :D &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 00:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Lots of! random! exclamation points is! good!!!!!!!!!111 Zzes Tyan 03:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * damn right!! looks boring without them!! entirely possible when i wrote it that i was a>drunk or b>bored:D &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 12:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Boon Prot Version
Page respecced to boon prot version!...and happily on my part ill add :D More feed back please!.. and Sidenote: boon prots always relied on energy management for their elite, AP does this + gives recharges to some basic skills for MUCH increased efficiency and insta recharges!
 * additional* should the page be renamed? Pls keep up the feedback :D its ALL appreciated! &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 00:58, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks good. However, i'd still favor a slightly higher spec into deadly. 8, maybe 9 is probably best.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 01:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed and fixed &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:59, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Except I hate AP cause of the 3/4 sec cast---u cant cast too early or mob might remove it, and u cant cast too late or mob dies during that 3/4 sec [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  17:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Selfless spirit
The buff pretty much took away some of the need for ap...oh well...Back to Divine Spirit.. still gets a one man aegis chain and rapid fire seeds! win! &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 23:06, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldnt selfless be better overall? Or maybe an optional? Btw, i reverted those edits because i didn't realize it was you =\ Life Guardian 01:00, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * worry less!! :D your prob right anyway! ill just leave it as it is :D Divine is in the optionals..and gives you better Eman, but if you barf ap thats goes too..meh :P and yah..forgettin to log in is clever :p &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * @ life guardian RE:edit < Yup prob the best way :D thanks &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Perma Seed makes for smooth sailing.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 03:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

btw
(taking out seed of life) do heros use this properly..?-- Ikimono "My beard is thick."  03:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I seriously doubt it. Life   Guardian  05:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Heroes can't use Seeds of Life. PVE Skill.--Cancerman66 06:39, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're very smart. Drahgal Meir 06:44, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Alas no, heores suck at protting pro-activly. The are passable with AP tho. Waste of time making a Hero run it really Imo. &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 12:25, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * True. &lol@cancerman.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 03:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Heavy energy Variant
thoughts? &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:28, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Post a build so we know what you mean by "high energy" variant. + <font color="#004466">ℓγ <font color="#005566">ss <font color="#006666">άή <font color="#007766">[rage]  01:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * see variant section, about running BOTH divine spirit + selfless spirit to power spam of ps+sb+shield guardian.(sure i posted this once, but its not shown up *shrugs) &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 13:12, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

useless elite
you can spam all that skills without AP--37er 13:31, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * k? Seed of life and aegis? <font color="Deepred"> No <font color="Black"> vii 13:37, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * k? its called chain it with the other monk in your crew and pack an elite that is actually useful to your team.

i second that. get this build off pvx. its bad. "::k? its called chain it with the other monk in your crew and pack an elite that is actually useful to your team.

i second that. get this build off pvx. its bad." <-- samenoob.
 * K so you can do it with two chars or one char, and you're saying it would be better to use two. <font color=Orange face="Comic Sans MS">Shazzy diddles 02:55, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Its called, dont need another monk in your crew to chain it with in the first place...Been able to perma keep a seed of life on the person been targeted along with a ps/sb, shield of absorb and aegis all while been at almost full energy...While dropping Boon'd Rof's on anyone taking 2ndary damage. Rinse repeat after every kill for who ever is been targeted. What other monk elite would let you do that?! Thats what i thought. /yawn.&gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 04:47, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

You are terribly unbrave for calling this bad. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 08:57, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Last i checked guild wars was a single player game with multiplayer properties. This is a general area build, not a build meant for teams.--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown"> "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 22:23, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

fun, Fun, Fun!, FUN. FUN!!!!!!! also epic win. beets normal prot anyday, and this can also be good for areas were u kill lotsa monsters like clears n such, or just general mission exp farmin for heros68.190.32.174 17:09, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

solution: use ER eles || use life sheath. mistime AP once and you're a useless spot on the party window Rikk Panda 02:55, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Add Blessed aura.

a few questions
theres something i dont understand about this build. i know how you can cast AP and if everything goes according to plan, you can chain aegis.

but what i don't understand is when do i use divine boon ? do i cast it on my heroes and maintain it or do i only cast it whenever i want to use rof ? o.o

also, would it be better to get you move like a dwarf ? cause if you're planning to kill enemies fast so you get more energy from ap, wouldn't YMLAD! help your heroes (most likely discordway since you're running AP) ? --Lusciious 09:47, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * YMLaD is a funny idea, just maintain Boon to make things simple. -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 10:22, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1. You can only maintain Boon on yourself, not on any others. 2. There's little point in running this with discordway.  Both the 3-hero and 6-hero versions have enough heals.  3. I agree with Chaos.  YMLaD is poor use of the slot in this build.--Supernick530 10:26, January 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * alrighty . :) thanks for the help . well i'm sure a little more heal won't hurt. what should i run with this then ? 2 discord spammers ( no heals ) + a discord hybrid (2-3 heals + attacks) o.o--Lusciious 11:40, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just run it with Discord or something, it doesn't really matter that much. -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 11:41, January 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * kk . thanks :) --Lusciious 11:45, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

is this build very good ?
is this build that good ? like someone mentioned in his rating that you need 3 monks or a paragon to keep up with this guy. is that true ? --Lusciious 23:40, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * That was one person's vote out of what...12? 13? Also, this is in great, so assume that it works well. + <font color="#004466">ℓγ <font color="#005566">ss <font color="#006666">άή <font color="#007766">[rage]  01:14, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, no. This is more of a general PvE build. You shouldn't be running this in elite areas, but if you're running it in vanquishes or just normal PvE, then you can probably just add a healer and be fine. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">01:17, 10 January 2010
 * What Karate Jesus said, Deffo a mission/Vanq bar, NOT designed for speed clears of elite areas, more for "balanced" or "general" teams. And its the prot part of the backline, you really only should be takin at most a healer/woh hybrid with you. Any more is a total waste, especially if you have midline defense like imbagon or enfeebling blood or gdw powered knockdowns from your frontline. Needing 3 monks + para is laughable. &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:31, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * alright. thanks for your opinions :D--Lusciious 03:30, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Hero-viable?
So, believe it or not, heroes aren't bad with this build. I was messing with AI today and came across this note on GWW, "Heroes will only use Assassin's Promise on low health targets, even if it is vital to their attack chain." I thought that sounded perfect on a AP boon-prot so I tested it out. I tested it in two ways and monitored the heroes work.
 * Boon-prot hero with no other healer/protector in the party. Vanquishing Perdition Rock. Hero not micro'd and no calling of targets. No e-management besides AP.
 * Hero misses with AP about 4 times. Hero runs out of energy 2 times. Hero uses AP for e-management.
 * Same as above, except targets are called.
 * Hero lands AP every time except once. Hero runs out of energy once.

Don't know if it's worth adding the tag or not, especially seeing as it'd need another e-management skill to be perfect, but it looks like heroes cast the skill when a target is at or below 25% health. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:59, 5 April 2010
 * I think that's about as good as heroes will use skills :> Probably hero viable. -- Chaos?  -- 08:56, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you run it with Divine Spirit? I wouldn't think that Heroes use it until they hit ~10 Energy or try to maintain it even if it recharges. AP isn't worth it if all it recharges is Aegis; you'll probably get more reliable E-management with the Mo/Me version. Also, ratings for the Hero build (if anyone does rate with it in mind) will be lower. ــѕт.  мıкε  21:22, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried out Divine Spirit with the build later, and it doesn't look like heroes use it well. I'll try again when I get back into town and see what happens. It would be worthwhile if heroes use it. The Mo/Me build (with edrain) is definitely better. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:34, 6 April 2010
 * id say thats about right ^ No seed, lack of pre prot awarenes and crap spirit usage rears its ugly head for a hero. &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 22:11, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea, I can tell you that this is not a hero effective build. Heros aren't good with prots to begin with, and the only thing a hero would benefit from is Aegis. Let the heros use their godly interrupt abilities for e-management.--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown"> Sent his resume to ArenaNet [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 22:15, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Archive
How outdated is this build? :\ <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]   20:09, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Still pretty effective for human players if you really want to prot. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 22:27, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And its the pet bar of quite a few manly monks as seen above - you might encounter some opposition archiving it unless you give some OP reason. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  22:33, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Reasons can't be overpowered. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 22:39, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  23:35, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Why
is this the only monk build rated great for general PvE? ... AegisDok 09:59, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hell, if this got to 5 votes again, it'd probably be tossed in 'good' :/ AegisDok 10:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

optimal specs
Not trying to be picky for pickiness' sake, this is related to AP's reliability in general.

Similar to Build:Mo/Me Unyielding Aura Hero, this should max DF to be a little better. Maxing the Prot attribute mostly increases enchant durations, which is irrelevant because of AP. Prot only helps RoF heal/prevent (conditionally) up to 8.66 hp/rank, while DF unconditionally heals 6.2 hp/rank plus a ton more with Seed. At least as I see it, there are 2 optimal specs... [build prof=Mo/A di=12+1+1 p=9+1 dead=9][Assassins Promise][Reversal of Fortune][Protective Spirit][Seed of Life][Shield of Absorption][Divine Spirit][Aegis][Divine Boon@14][/build]

[build prof=Mo/A di=12+1+1 p=11+1 dead=6][Assassins Promise][Reversal of Fortune][Protective Spirit][Seed of Life][Shield of Absorption][Divine Spirit][Aegis][Divine Boon@14][/build]

I'd personally go with the top one because you trade -10% Aegis for +22% AP.

8 Deadly is already the lowest-specced AP on pvx, yet its job is one of the most important (prot-healing).

This is a jewel of a build (but not so fun when things spiral out of control). Making this build less glass cannony may help it gain more popularity in real play. And there's discussion of (perhaps) less fragile e-management for boon prot Fianchetto 18:09, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Reasons for archival
Are really shitty. "Aegis relegated to MMs" is only relevant to heroway teams, which this sure isn't for. I don't know what is meant by power creep of selfless spirit, since this build was designed for the current functionality of that skill. I also don't see much serious discussion at all regarding the archival, and I'm pretty sure this didn't fall into trash to force the archive. -- Toraen   confer  12:42, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well it was in trash - mainly because it wasn't run by anyone at all.. and it was clunky to use + required watching foes intently as well as allies. Rather than deletion I moved it here. obviously change the tag if you can think of some better wording than "nobody ran it, and nobody cared about it" [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  13:33, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Since came up I figured I'd review this build (since it is better than Air of Enchantment - although that's not much of an achievement) to see if it was WELL fodder or if it should get another chance. I can't check the votes on this to see if they're all valid unless I move though. Also, archive should've waited until some discussion about the trash rating had taken place. You did it right after Vorpal changed the tag, but there's a two-week grace period before deletion in case some votes are bad/wrong. --  Toraen   confer  13:57, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Who knows if those votes were even valid, to take it from Great to Trash. It is a very nice build, but yes a little clunky and doesnt work everywhere. - <font color="CornflowerBlue">Athrun <font color="CornflowerBlue">Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 14:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The only issue is no massive push heal, but that's what prots prevent the need for. Got to be a pretty aggressive monk to play well. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 18:42, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's alright, your other healer will usually be a typical brute force healer. And AP works fine until you stumble upon that one problematic mob where kills don't/can't happen often enough - which is, incidentally, the situation where you'd need real prot action. Not that Air of Enchantment is any less of a glass cannon, just saying Fianchetto 20:10, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Air of Enchantment is the non-PvE version of Selfless Spirit. You don't need anymore energy reduction because Selfless does that already. Thinking about it; you don't need to hit AP all the time; maybe every 2 or 3 foes, to recharge Selfless. Being able to spam Aegis and Seed is the obvious reason why this is amazing, though. Something a Minion Bomber can't do (I guess this is why the archival reason is being disputed). ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 21:00, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * After testing for a while it's true, AoE is terrible, sorry for bringing it up at all. AP is amazing in general, when things are going smoothly and monks are working part-time. However are there more solid/safe options? And unarchive please, the tag makes no senseFianchetto 21:21, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

"Outdated, as indicated in votes" - more exactly, selfless spirit's semi-buff (i assume) and "no one has used aegis since what? 2008?" For the latter, a lot of people obviously still do, and for the former, the point of AP is more about perma seed, aegis, and soa than about perma selfless/divine spirit, because selfless alone is possibly enough (provided you don't spam everything on recharge) Fianchetto 02:27, 5 January 2012 (UTC)