Archive talk:W/any Defy Pain Warrior

is an interesting idea, as long as defy stays up ur 150hp higher then normal. Prob is no optional skill for utility. Zuko 10:13, 31 January 2009 (EST)

12+1+3 Axe Mastery makes your autoattacks trigger Spirit Bond, iirc. Which is obviously not good. - Star Seeker  12:15, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * you're anyways unable to use attack skills against Spirit Bond, which is obviously not good. Defy Pain is a lamer skill but I like the purpose it's used for here. You're lowhealth meat without adrenaline if ever not attacking or if shut down. -- -Ch ao s-   12:22, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * It makes your crits trigger SB, not your autoattacks. ^_^ 217.120.228.192 12:25, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, then it's still damn bad. Defy Pain is for Euro overextending with Frenzy on, so you don't have to cancel. - Star Seeker  14:59, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * You can perma-Frenzy, use Superiors, and you can bring E-Charge, what are you on? -- 17:27, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * Defy Pain without sups. - Star Seeker  17:50, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * noone uses SB in RA/TA/AB, what are u guys on about? Infested Hydralisk  18:02, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * You beat me to it. Who the fuck uses SB in RA? --74.87.100.79 18:47, 31 January 2009 (EST)

no ra tag? Illoyon 13:48, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * Why do you have a sup strength?--Relyk 19:43, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * because 2% armor penetration is worth -75 health ofc --Ojamo  (>.<( O=(- -Q)  20:17, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * lern 2 read defy pain Infested Hydralisk  20:24, 31 January 2009 (EST)

does having 16 axe and 15 strength make this spike any harder than the WE axe build? If so, then I think this is a great idea. If not, it seems like a wasted elite. 15:22, 2 February 2009 


 * it gives you strong crits and autoattacks :3 along with more armor penetration. But Endurance Axe can spam spikes =/ -- -Ch ao s-   15:53, 2 February 2009 (EST)
 * That doesn't answer my question. Which one can spike more damage? I think that's what will make or break this build. If this does more damage, then it's worth using DP to mitigate the health loss. If this doesn't deal more damage than the WE axe, then we're wasting 2 sup runes. [[Image:Oh noes sig KJ.png]] 15:54, 2 February 2009 
 * defy pain only gives this build the ability to take more dmg, WE/PR > this really :/ Infested Hydralisk  16:04, 2 February 2009 (EST)
 * Idk, I can see this concept doing some sick amounts of damage especially since you can have 2 sup runes and not have to worry about the costs. I figure WE has a more on-demand spike than this, and with PR you've got IMS and IAS, but this could be decent if run right. [[Image:Oh noes sig KJ.png]] 16:07, 2 February 2009 
 * with WE being able to spam attacks makes WE do more damage then this, PR can IAS against kiting foes aswell. this, can only take a bit more dmg Infested Hydralisk  16:09, 2 February 2009 (EST)
 * Being able to take "a little more damage" and still do a decent spike sounds like an ok build to me, tbh (not great, but ok). I think it needs some work, but I think it makes sense. If I'm wrong, I'll shut up. [[Image:Oh noes sig KJ.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="Aharoni" color="green" variant="small caps">16:11, 2 February 2009 

Vs Primaxe/WE

 * Has more health and lasts longer against enemy melee/casters.
 * Has big attribs for big autoattack damage
 * Crits more often, for big damage.


 * Still has less damage than WE/Primaxe.
 * Perma-frenzying still makes you explode, even with Defy on.
 * If you can't survive long enough to outpressure enemies with Primeaxe/WE, you can't outpressure them with this either.
 * Disciplined Stance or Shield Bash on a war, as frosty said, is gay but more effective at staying alive and pissing off enemies.

Overall:More noob friendly but not as good. Compare this to running Shove sin vs BB sin. 14:52, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * And it deserves a 1? Even with all the good stuff you said? Leave it in other. However, you're right about the perma-frenzy. That's gonna blow your ass up. This needs another stance.....somehow. Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">15:11, 3 February 2009 - )
 * There are cancels in variants. I guess the advantage he's shooting for is not having to cancel as often? <font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="darkblue">crazy [[Image:Cow.png]]<font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="orange">cow  15:14, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * I guess that and being able to auto attack for more damage while you build up adren for spikes. It's a decent idea, but I'm still not convinced that this is the best form of the idea. Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">15:15, 3 February 2009 - )
 * All the variants for the 2nd slot are stances for canceling =/ is this trolling? -- -Ch ao s-   08:50, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * I perma-frenzied vs kappa spike running one of these. Enraging Charge is plenty cancel enough. We were BYOBing and they caught me alone, snared and tried to timekill me. I lasted until ~15 seconds before the next two minute mark, lol. - [[Image:Miserysig.PNG|117px]] (talk)  09:06, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Changes
Added Sentinel's Insignias > Survivor's. You'll have +260 health the majority of the time (+150 from Defy Pain, +60 from shields/axes, +50 from Sup Vigor), maybe +230 at least, and since your weakness is elemental damage, having 100AL vs. a majority of damage sources (except those that ignore AL) is good. Also just clarified a few things. -- 09:02, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * I'm starting to like this build more and more. Ran it in TA the other day and did really well. It really isn't as good of a spike as a WE axe build and not as good against kiters as a PR axe build, but it's definitely got it's place among them. Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">11:51, 4 February 2009 - )
 * Lolwut? It's not a replacement for those builds. - [[Image:Miserysig.PNG|117px]] (talk)  11:52, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * Reading Comprehension for Wiki, by Karate Jesus
 * One day, I will write that.... You missed what I said entirely. Read it again s l o w l y. Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">11:55, 4 February 2009 - )
 * You missed what I said entirely. You are essentially comparing a snare ele to a SH nuker. - [[Image:Miserysig.PNG|117px]] (talk)  11:57, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * Good call. Alright, I'll clarify. This build is great at what it was made to do, just like how Archive:W/E Primal Rage Axe, and Archive:W/A Endurance Axe at great at what they are designed to do. In the right type of situation, this build can be on equal footing to those builds. That was what I meant. Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">12:01, 4 February 2009 - )
 * What is it meant to do? Stand and tank while dealing damage that divine favor could heal through? WE/Primaxe rolls faster and carries the same amount of utility, if not more. Survival isn't a problem, even in low level PvP, unless you don't have a monk, in which case, you're screwed anyway as you run around your dead teammates attemping to kill a level 15 hearty wolf. And considering you just admitted that this is inferior to WE and PR in all areas except survival, i dont see why this should be kept. 18:40, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * All areas except survival? So there are only three areas? Spiking, anti-kite, and survival? No...just no. And survival is an issue in RA. Better survival and doing a pretty damn decent spike is decent in RA. Oh, and it's an "other" build....so what does it matter? Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">18:44, 4 February 2009 - )
 * In RA there aren't many other areas. :/ Most teams you face try to outpressure you, piss you off with rupts and kites, or tank for 5 minutes before dying. This is the third kind of build. Spike is "decent" but blatently inferior to WE axe. Surviving in RA is a big comfort when the enemy decides to ignore you and kill your teammates. Oh and id be perfectly fine with wiping all the "other" builds. 18:49, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * dmg > survival in RA for wars tbh <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  18:50, 4 February 2009 (EST)

I outheal this with ether feast + drain on my mesmer tbh. I really wonder why.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  18:52, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * It's an other build, so I don't see why it matters. It does a decent job of survival and a decent job of damage. Other build is appropriate. And when have you faced this Pika? Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">18:54, 4 February 2009 - )
 * It's a talkpage, so I don't see why it matters. I outheal this with my FC earth mes, it does a decent job of survival and a decent job of damage but I don't see it vetted. Other build should have been appropriate. And I have faced this many times in RA, it's so common.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  18:58, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * It is an other build, so I guess you're saying that it's appropriate. And I don't RA near as much as I used to, so I don't know what's meta there but I would be surprised if this is that common. Karate Jesus (Talk | contribs) (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">21:31, 4 February 2009 - )
 * Tbh we should wipe all the "other" builds. Nobody looks at them, they won't be meta, and most are theorycrafts. 19:57, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * My Guildies actually ran this in HA as a main war for a while its a good build, most monks a Red bar prots anyway so what if the WE is better at spiking, you getll stripped and youll do less Threetwoonespike 04:11, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * WE...will get stripped... --<font color="Purple">Ojamo  <font color="Green">(>.<( O=(- -Q)  07:17, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * Reminds me of rend preparation. 17:38, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * Rend Skillbar, tbh<font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Pet Whale  17:56, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * NO MORE WE!!! [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  15:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

+1 axe
Is 1 more axe mastery than the normal axe war worth wasting your elite? IMO there are only 2 reasons to run defy pain... A you want to not die but do no damage, B... nvm. This can't kill a good healer, it's just lame. If your going to need a healer to survive anyway, why not run a bar that can actually kill shit?I heal if you shut it 07:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * permafrenzy--Relyk 07:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a GvG bar, if you have GvG'd recently you will notice that 90% of teams are MB split teams, a Defy Pain warrior with proper equipment (all vs Fire) takes very little damage from these meaning the warrior can actually split if needed. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  10:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Because the adren is definatly going to be there while splitting, and defy pain is for sure going to be ready to go once you get into aggro range of the eles who by the way run distortion so you can even hit them to build up the adren that you already lost while splitting off from the main team.I heal if you shut it 20:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You split to take out NPC's and hopefully kill knights or bodyguard (or get lord damage), when you send the ele's back to inevitabely try and kill you you will A) be able to survive B) possibly get more NPC kills. Ofcourse you don't attack the E/Me's however most people run E/D's now too. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  21:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But why is it flagged for RA? It's a GvG build and it is shit in RA. Godbox  21:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I can win matches 1 on 4 with this in RA while running dual sups. Your point is invalid. ··· [[File:Danny-sig.png]] 20:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I run a different variation of this on my team... I run Agonizing Chop on both for extra damage, and one Warrior is a W/Rit for a hard res, while the other is a W/A for Dash over Sprint and carries a Rez Sig. Makes a nice combo for the monks not to worry about 2 of the players.  Coupled with 2 E/D's with their own defensive skills, so all thats left to heal besides themselves is the 5th midliner (usually the Kappa Ele or FC Corrupt or LC. Good stand up pressure for splits.  On a side note, DPact and FMF are nice rezes with this, since 1/2 your HP is still around 420.  Infact on the W/RIt I even drop the stats down a little to boost Dpact to Rez with 48% Energy (Resto 6).  Its a big boost for a downed Monk- SabreWolf18 03:15, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Defy Pain...
...Mother-fucking owns in RA. Survival > Utility if you're not bad and can dchop like a champ. --BlazingBurdy 04:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Make sure you bring IWAY since you'll be the only person alive after 4 minutes. ;o ··· [[File:Danny-sig.png]] 17:23, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL that's actually really fun. - [[Image:Ins420sig.png]] 420 14:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Survival over a small amount of damage in RA. By a long shot. In this format you're not guaranteed any of the characters that are required for a normal warrior to sustain his damage. I know as a monk I prefer having damage concentrated on me rather than spread all over the place on characters who have no defense or self heals (as is the case with normal warriors)Howlinghobo 12:47, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * They have higher armor than you, so you end up healing less pressure. -- -Ch  ao  s-   13:40, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * I hear prot spells are useful, you also have the necessary skills to stop spikes (dark escape, shield bash), and you can make full use of WoH for healing if you can utilise its full heal almost on recharge, rather than just patient spirit with your whole team sitting at 75%, making them easy spike targets.Howlinghobo 06:26, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * RA spikes are slow and often not immediately lethal, due to them almost always being solo spikes. As long as my energy lasts I can easily heal in time if the allies are around 20-25%+. Then again, my party isn't at that low unless my energy is low or I'm saving it. -- -Ch  ao  s-   10:24, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * I always have dagger rits and sword monks when i monk, if they have 25% health i just let them die-- Relyk  talk  07:21, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

This needs hard rez for RA. ــѕт. мıкε  01:38, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I've been using this:
Full Sentinel's + Weakness = Less Damage dealt to you while dishing out alot. A Dervish on steroids, basically! What do you guys think? C= --BlazingBurdy 17:01, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you trolling? =/-- Steamy .. x 17:14, June 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * My wiki is fucked up, and I only saw Staggering Blow, Fierce Blow, and Frenzy, yet it was still enough for me to smile at it. I don't get to say I "lol'd" at it, I've been on the go for 2 days, sneaking out at night to see girls or just staying up late, and I feel very tired after all this. I also quit my school and feel very stuffed about eating a kebab with my bro in law and some "cousin" of mine. Funny story actually because he was just on ACDC's gig and.... Fuck it, I cba coming up with more shit to make a massive wall of text, since I feel tired and stuffed after eating a kebab and hanging out two days with this cousin-thingy of mine!
 * Also, lol. -- Chaos?  -- 21:11, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure its not serious and its Protector's Strike Staggering Blow Fierce Blow Auspicious Blow Frenzy Rush Defy Pain Enraging Charge Optional-- Steamy .. x 21:14, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can still check out skills in Edit, but thanks ^___^ -- Chaos?  -- 21:34, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not trolling at all. Prot Strike for double-strike, spikability and kiters. Staggering Blow for more quick-attack action and weakness [because Defy + Weakness on meleers = 0 damage at all times LOL], frenzy because you have defy pain [and weakness on meleers], E.Charge for insta-Defy Pain instead of dying while spearing/being dodged, blinded, blocked [by rangers]/not on Defy Pain. It's legit, tbh. I can also just imagine this variant being ran to gank NPCs in GvG much faster. --BlazingBurdy 06:33, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * The whole point of defy pain is to be able to sit in the lord room all day long and you cant do that without a shield-- Steamy .. x 10:01, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Burdy, whatever you say is kind of countered by his above argument, so I'd rest my case right about now. You also lack Bull's Strike, an interrupt (or any KD), and Sprint > Rush + Echarge. I believe there is a reason as to why nobody has ever ran Defy hammer wars. -- Chaos?  -- 10:45, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

update
well, that screws that... Mr Metal  FLower  -...<font size=0.5> tlk  02:15, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Awww..no more last wammo standing grief builds :( -  Zero .Six  [[Image:Z123.PNG]] 06:20, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Nerf
So, uh, what do people think of this? Still usable? Now it's a stance and doesn't take damage reduction, but the health boost and armor buff are still prevalent. I saw someone use it in CM and they couldn't last nearly as long; stance removal and the damage reduction seems like a big deal.
 * It's shit now, hence archived, but CM players are terrible, so he probably didn't even notice. <font color="#A55858">Misery  15:40, June 18, 2010 (UTC)