Archive talk:Team - Sabway

Variants
-- 20:32, September 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Weaken Armor on SS?
 * Masochism on MM?
 * I'd support Maso over Putrid. Not sure about Cracked Armor as the damage is pretty much all armor ignoring. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 15:17, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * I've put both these in. The build needed some general updating. - Athrun Feya - 10:25, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

SS Necro
The necro with ss build from this page doesnt cast anything except the weapon enchantment, it doesnt matter if i call the target 10k times, lock him or not. One time I disabled that skill from use and through whole ~1min battle he didnt use a SINGLE skill. Got wondering why I always see him with 30+ mana but after this "test" I was just liek omgwtfbbq?!?
 * Autoattack a target and retry. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 15:15, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * sounds like someone left their hero on "avoid". - Athrun Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 16:05, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * omg, pretty humiliating, thanks for "solution" heh
 * Tehee, lol. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 12:28, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * btw guys, Reckless Haste in this necro should be for HM, not NM as description says. In HM mobs have alredy their attack speed maxed so RH gives chance to miss46.134.246.215 20:24, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Underworld
Does this work in the underworld? wondering if I should try this to get a spider on my Ranger 72.69.131.133 01:21, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting in that as well, cannot wait until I try myself ...Pajda 12:45, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * To be honest, balanced builds tend to work better in UW unless you have a full team. Full teams can run shitter gimmicks and typically clear. Hero teams typically can't. But, that's just my experience. Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  19:46, 10 November 2009
 * No corpses in UW.--173.48.217.187 17:49, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

EoTN
In the Jagged Bones MM Necro Variants it says if you don't have EoTN you can replace Putrid Bile with Rising Bile. If you don't have EoTN, you don't have access to one necro, so what's the point? Amadesa 04:22, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * You drop either the SS for an SoS rit or the healer for a rit with spirit siphon. Learn to improvise please. Life   Guardian  04:30, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * He was only pointing out that a variant just for people without EotN is dumb because you can't even run another necro without EotN. Lern read life. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 04:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Frosty, I think you need to look again.--Ikimono  "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 08:20, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Like this, which is possibly an even better build. - Athrun Feya - 10:31, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Strength of Honor
You think it would be possible to fit SoH on one of these heroes? -- Ajsnuker   22:00, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is how i do it, if you;re needing some ideas. Don't really think we'll be changing the bars on this page any time soon though, everyone seems to have their own favourite variant. - [[Image:Porororroro lau.gif]] Athrun Feya - 22:05, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * the rt/mo melee biotch works very well just put enfeebling/shadow of ffear on sab healer or mm--[[File:Relyksig3.JPG]] 22:34, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

SS vs LC
I've found that the SS will cast the hex on the called target, and the target will die before really allowing it to do any damage. Wouldn't LC have better uptime, utility, and ease at recasting (and perhaps damage against spellcasting targets)? schensto <font color="Blue">talk 
 * is enemies having heals too great much of a problem? didn't think so. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 23:09, February 8, 2010 (UTC)\
 * I've actually found that to be the case, sometimes, since this build doesn't have interrupts included. Honestly whats happens is SS is cast, target dies after maybe 5-7 seconds (or less sometimes), and between those varying downtimes no benefit is really gained.<font color="Blue">schensto  <font color="Blue">talk 
 * Indent and sign please (do like what I showed)--<font color="#b22222"> X 11:01, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * LC is generally bad in PvE. SS works well in HM. If you're running in NM, then honestly it doesn't matter. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:35, 10 February 2010
 * I sometimes run SoS + PB over SS, and jack channeling up to 12 and curses down to 10 --<b style="font-size:0.9em;"> Star  [[File:Star_pedobear_small.png]]  talk  </b> 15:40, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * SoS is a decent replacement, I'd say. So much utility and damage, that it's worthwhile. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:44, 10 February 2010

No synergy with ravenous gaze
I'm removing ravenous gaze as an optional elite for the restoration necro. Not only is it a pretty sub-par elite for this build but it's in a completely different attribute line. I have a feeling that skill was recently changed, but it's pretty useless in this build now. If you disagree please do explain why... K2K 07:26, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * its a cheap, spammable aoe that's a better option than other elites if ur not using xw or wor, which is not to say it's pretty udnerwhelming. The necro can afford the att split.-- Relyk  talk  07:35, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Replacing N/Mo by a N/R for last parts on NF Vanquish
Since I needed to deal with alot of hard res enemies in the latter parts of NF Vanquish, I replaced Protective Spirit and Aegis with Frozen Soil and a Res sig. It was a bit tricky to manage since some areas are within the worm, but it did the job and made Vanquishing the Desolation easy. Of course it is possible to bring FS yourself.


 * Could also bring an interruption hench. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 20:54, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * They have "We Shall Return!" as one of their many res skills. Still manageable without FS, but annoying all the same. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 22:14, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It makes no sense to me why anyone would use this kind of necroway in those areas of NF... --<font color="HotPink">Iggy 's other account 22:16, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * because you get splinter weapon and they ball easy-- Relyk  talk  03:22, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then take RoJ Monks with SoH and watch the undead explode. --<font color="HotPink">Iggy 's other account 10:18, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

40% HCT/20% enchantments staff
Staffs can only have 20% HSR innate, not 20% HCT, so 40% HCT and 20% enchanments is not possible. Or am i missing something?
 * Staves can have 40% half casting time through use of an inscription and adept staff head (20% HCT each). <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 00:07, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Best Necro healer elite?
It says you could choose xinrai, icy veins, or weapon of remedy, what's the best elite skill for this hero?--Wracks 22:05, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Depends on the area, of course. I'd probably go with remedy for most areas for extra condition removal, use xinrae's where there are hard-hitting foes, and icy if neither of the weapon spells make sense for the area. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 22:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * On my Mesmer I use Xinrae's so I can run into a HM area/boss with it on and still survive, whereas on my Warrior I use Weapon of Remedy. Angueo [[Image:AngueoSignature.jpg|19px]] 23:30, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * you run discord on your healer, baddies. &mdash; Maf so rational. 05:39, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Did anyone see the Sabway Redux team build? Anybody know what happened to it, or where I could be found, as it seems to have just vanished?--"Idiots are so much fun. That's why every village has or wants one" 16:07, 5 December 2010 (UTC) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amberskogg (talk &bull; contribs).
 * It's been moved to Archive:Team - 3 Hero Balanced--Christmas sig.jpg talk  23:14, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Looked at it quickly and then came back for it and.........Poof. It was gone!"Idiots are so much fun. That's why every village has or wants one" 22:20, 6 December 2010 (UTC) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amberskogg (talk &bull; contribs).
 * Please indent properly and sign by typing ~ . You can't sign with a quote, because it makes it harder to see who actually signed. <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGreen">Toraen -<font face="Courier New" color="DarkRed">Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 09:05, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

7 Heroes
Now that 7 heroes can come with us i strongly recommed this builds being updated with 4 more hero build. I personaly use teh 2 Rit Spirit builds with Monk UA Build and an Earth ele. i rolled 40+ HM areas with it and missions are piece of cake.--Plobmaster 11:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Since the 7 hero update, I'd recommend you use one of the builds designed for 7 hero usage - this build will stay as 3 heroes due to the occurance of small zones early in the campaigns. Sabway is a compact, efficient and slightly outdated bar - but still works fine. Checkout Archive:Team - 7 Hero Player Support. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  12:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Meta
This build is very old. Possibility of archiving it for a 7 hero revamped version or just get rid of the tag? <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]   20:12, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say meta tag could go now, but still has a place in 4-man areas. Expanding it to 7 basically gives a 2rit/2mes/3necro build which already essentially exists as a variant of 7HPS I think. --  Toraen   talk  01:01, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * isn't too outdated, there are some cases where you'd use this over spiritway in 4 man-- Relyk 02:13, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Except the SS is really outdated and you'd be much better off with a Panic/ESurge/VoR mesmer, and a curse/resto hybrid instead of the full resto. Owait, that's this. -- Jai . -  03:21, June 22 2011 (UTC)
 * An update would pretty much be a hybrid healer and Rt/any, then you can bring SoH and drop life while still getting spirit light heals. And SS is still useful with high spec curses, lets you take out groups on par with spiritway; pertains more to charr groups than anythin though. Problem with heroway balanced is me/rt really sucks for healing.-- Relyk 06:54, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Seeing as this build was designed to originally carry 4 henchies through 8 man areas, this probably needs an archive as it's too defensive for 4 man areas which it's relegated to now and there's just been a lot of power creep. As an example, there's basically no reason to run a dedicated N/Rt healer over a hybrid healer (either an SoS or Curses, depending on where you want to slot your extra utility/buff skills). If a new build is made that's inspired from this one, that's fine (well that already happened), but Sabway is basically historical. --  Toraen   talk  06:18, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Definitely would drop an SoS over the N/Rt heals. I suppose SS is fine, but there is also PoD to consider. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 14:54, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sabway is inferior in every way to Spiritway or things similiar to "3-Hero Balanced". Rewriting this would only end up in something like those. Lets face it, it served its purpose for a long time lets give it a repectful funeral (read: archive) <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 15:04, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * up until WoC, i used this as my basic team build, and its worked excellently for me in everything ive done. the only problem in WoC i had is that minions are kinda awful against afflicted with there OP death novasHalfies 19:00, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I'm sure it worked fine for you, but almost anything works in PvE. It is just no longer optimal, necromancers are no longer the best heroes anymore. And since PvE only stores optimal builds, I see no more reason for it being here. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 19:10, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It still works sufficiently in any case, archive it if it gets trashed; the current votes are all valid. Unless you are geared on absolutely archiving this build no matter what-- Relyk 23:10, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah only if more people want to get archive it, I think at this moment only I and maybe Jai (couldn't really make it up from his post) would be for archiving this. At least it's clear that a rewrite wouldn't do the build good. The ratings are valid indeed, so I purpose archiving when it gets a rating below 3.75. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 23:22, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It still works sufficiently in any case, archive it if it gets trashed; the current votes are all valid. Unless you are geared on absolutely archiving this build no matter what-- Relyk 23:10, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I definitely don't think it's been dropped by enough people, because alot of people use what they know until it breaks. Don't archive just because you want to promote Discordway and BDSM. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 23:24, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * How about we try and update this or maybe archive, since its so outdated, just a thought thats been stated about 20 times above. Dacookiemaster 20:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * We've tried and that's what the current setup for Archive:Team - 3 Hero Balanced is based on.-- Relyk 21:43, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I would still like this to be archived. It's still run by people who don't know any better but frequency isn't the only criteria for something being meta. Objectively, this should be WELL'd to the 3 hero balanced build if we keep it unarchived. -- Toraen   confer  22:18, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm up for an archive. 7-hero teams made this pretty much useless. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 23:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * 3 hero areas Rask. I just don't want to put the final bullet in the horse I rode through all my VQs. Generally, Ineptitude is better for anti-melee than SS anyways when Enfeebling Blood is set on the healer. It isn't really inferior just outdated in the current meta.-- Relyk 23:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * If we're going to ignore the PvE meta then we should also trash the 7 Hero Discord build. As is there's way, way too many people using this still (yes, including in 7 Hero builds) to archive it. -- Jai . -  04:53, December 24 2011 (UTC)
 * I honestly wouldn't care if Discord got archived/trashed either. Skakid probably shouldn't have put the tag on this yet and I feel dumb for moving it rather than just reverting him though. -- Toraen   confer  06:42, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, 3HB is basically Sabway 2 and there's literally no advantage to running Sabway 1 instead. -- Toraen   confer  06:48, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn't this be archived? It's been obsolete for ages, but was massively popular before rits and mesmers andd 7 heroes. &mdash; <font color="#CC0099">Skakid  Rally- kupo! [[Image:S9M.png]] 07:16, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It IS massively popular. Whether or not the build is suited for the 7 hero meta, people still use Sabway as their core in a huge number of 7 hero builds. Yes, other builds are clearly superior to this one (as with 7 Hero Discord), but if we're going to stick with PvX's idea that we're recording the meta, then we shouldn't be archiving/trashing them. Personally, I don't give a fuck about the meta and I don't think we should store crap stuff that scrubs run (though I do have a soft spot for Sabway), but PvX doesn't currently hold that stance. If you want that changed, then bring it up on the policy page or whatever. -- Jai . -  16:15, December 24 2011 (UTC)
 * ^ I made this argument when I tried to vet a defy pain warrior pug bar. Didn't get sofar. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 17:18, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm fully aware of the double standards here, but I'm too lazy to get people to change (this one's going to be tough to change btw). -- Jai . -  17:45, December 24 2011 (UTC)
 * As I said, I don't consider Meta to just be what's popular. Metagaming means you actually analyze what options are most effective (it really is a PvP term we're forcing into the PvE section though). A build that is meta is both effective and popular. One of the two doesn't cut it. -- Toraen   confer  18:24, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I completely agree on it being popular, I still see people refer to it in alliance chat and guildguru when someone asks for a "decent" hero setup. As long as it isn't trashed, there isn't a good enough reason for archival.-- Relyk 19:57, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

(reset indent) Okay, then if we keep this we need to document the Defy Pain warrior as meta. Might as well add the other shitter builds that people run. I'm not trolling, this is being completely serious. You don't get to pick and choose which popular builds to keep if you take the stance that we should keep sub-par builds. &mdash; <font color="#CC0099">Skakid  Rally- kupo! 22:29, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Build is in trash now, so archive tag is back up. People can continue to debate/vote/etc. until monday (I might extend the grace period if you can convince me that it wouldn't be a waste of time). -- Toraen   confer  23:46, 24 December 2011 (UTC)