Archive talk:Team - PvE Smiteway/Archive1

Current Build Discussion Archive 2

hahaa... If the AotL MM is a hero then it should definitely have Death Nova, right? -- ''' Chaos Messenger  10:42, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Doesn't have to be a hero. That's why there are variants. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 10:53, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Dwayna's Lich build - necros cant use monk runes so attributes need fixing
 * Good catch, fixed. Also after an hour of testing I've changed the Necro's build so it has Death Nova. Makes mobs ka-boom faster. But please, sign your comments with four ~'s. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 12:33, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * Yeah, putting Death Nova is an absolute abuse of the hero AI. Also, can you manage to get 1 more Death Magic to the necro hero for +20 damage Rising Bile and general effectiviness? forgot the AotL DM buff, good thinking.
 * Change the res on heroes to Restore Life or something, it's enough if the human has Rebirth since I expect him/her to survive.. I'm also trying to make Smite Hex fit in the SB bar but it doesn't seem necessary. Deny Hexes is leetness in there.. -- ''' Chaos Messenger  15:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Judge's Insight owns PvE. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 15:07, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * Eh.. and what exactly would you enchant with it? One of the meat shields? Make monks wand?
 * Put Putrid Bile over Rising Bile, PvE foes don't live long enough for RB to have any proper effect. You might also want to mainbar BotM over Healing Ribbon and put Healing Ribbon to variants/ditch it totally. -- ''' Chaos Messenger  15:32, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Judge's Insight would be good if you had a human melee, like Evi Warrior or a DS Spammer. I'll change PB for RB, if you think it's better. Also, my heroes already use better resses - one has Restore Life, the other one has Resurrection Chant. Healing Ribbon is useful, and you usually should steamroll enemies so fast you don't need to heal your minions. They will either die or will be replaces fast. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 16:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)

hmm i think if you casts that much rays of judgement guild wars will crash. but it looks nice, i hope it will works nice to Riktw 17:09, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Changed monk bars, now they have better resses, Necro bar is also altered. You think it's ready for testing? &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:45, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Tried it out in Ruins of Morah. She doesn't kite from the RoJ beams and 3 of them are more than enough to smash her and burn. Get some decent Daze build for Morgahn and you can finish the mission in 3:10. Got a screenie for that xd. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 05:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Earthen Schakles for the win...?88.141.145.155 06:39, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * no build there could manage to use Earthen Shackles...

Seems like you messed up my point with the RP/PB, I'll just put in Putrid Bile myself, if you don't mind.. Hmmh.. Seems like we aren't getting more outsider help so you could move to testing. -- ''' Chaos Messenger  08:57, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Okay, I'm going to put it in testing later. But I thought you said Putrid was worse... I changed it for Rising ;p Whatever, thanks for help. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 11:33, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Putrid Bile > Rising Bile as the damage on death isn't conditional to the duration of the hex and the degen is ok too. Spaggage  talk  11:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * "Put Putrid Bile over Rising Bile, PvE foes don't live long enough for RB to have any proper effect", sorry to say, you just got my point wrong. -- ''' Chaos Messenger  14:48, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Mo/E?
I suppose that the human is meant to be playable for everyone, so add a variant for each profession of possible skills. Signet of Lost Souls, GoLE, Power Drain/Energy Tap.... help me out here, list something -- ''' Chaos Messenger  19:08, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I enjoy using Signet of Corruption on Mo/N. Nice energy, in a perfect situation is better than Glyph. Sure, it's for more targets, but if someone has r6+ Luxon/Kurzick, it CAN be better. Mesmers can use Ray of Judgment too, Arcane Echo it if they want or just Fast Cast it, Elementalists the same, although they would be better as a knockdown/support or wards. Warriors/Assassins/Rangers/Dervishes as tanks, Paragon as Imbagon, Necro as healer or MM, Ritualist the same. Should we add this to the build itself? &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 05:33, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Those who play necro can play the AotL build themself and take 3 monk heroes. Elementalists can play a variant of RoJ Mesmers can play a variant of RoJ Assassins can play A/E permaSF Paragons can as mentioned be Imbagons. Good sync with minions I suppose, unsure about wording on "SY!" and not going to check it. Warriors can indeed tank. They need to run Defy Pain since Gladiator's breaks aggro.

Axe Mastery 9+1 Strength 12+1+1 Tactics 9+1

Hmm... Monks play the build you got there..

That leaves Dervishes and Rangers, right? Rangers could use stuff like Winnowing and perhaps Barrage.. they can't really tank as good as anyone else imo.

Dervs play...? -- ''' Chaos Messenger  09:03, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well... that Warrior build is meh. DS spammer is much, much, MUCH better, or with Earthshaker. Dervs can play ANY melee build, even Avatar of Lyssa/Grenth/Balthazar/Melandru. Not Lyssa, she stinks in general PvE. Rangers can tank, too. Or just melee with Earthshaker.. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 10:25, 17 December 2008 (EST)


 * I've slept for 3½ hours, my opinions don't matter atm and I'll regret them when I've slept better and atm I'm just trying to make thoughts of others flow aka inspire them. Earth Shaker is good, it feeds RoJ. -- ''' Chaos Messenger  12:03, 17 December 2008 (EST)

change the monks to full smiters
in that way you get more dmg...and good support and the mm could takes [Aegis] and [Protective Spirit]...or just take another smiter...this + 1-2 hensch monks should work.

maybe take smiters like this...?

[build prof=Mo/? smi=12+1+1 div=12+1][Ray of Judgment][Reversal of Damage][Smite Condition][Smite Hex][Castigation Signet][Zealot's Fire][No Skill][No Skill][/build]

sry for bad english btw. Illoyon 16:15, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * Would fail in HM. That healing from Divine Magic (for which you require no extra investment on Smiter Heroes) AoE spells is really useful. Plus Zealot Fire causes scatter and is baed. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 16:19, 17 December 2008 (EST)

so maybe Smiter's Boon instead of Zealot's Fire...and Divine Healing + Heaven's Delight on the smiters for some group heal? Illoyon 16:49, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * Why isnt smiters boon on the main bar...--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  23:07, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * I guess you are refering to the bar above? Dunno. If you are talking about the Mo/E on the main page, that's because you have only 1 spell targeting other ally from Smiting Prayers. Would be a waste of skillslot. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 00:47, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Restore Life
^ - Star Seeker  18:22, 19 December 2008 (EST)
 * Wut? &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:18, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Why is it in that bar? - Star Seeker  06:09, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Because I have no idea what else to put and I like the 4 second almost-full-energy rez. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 06:20, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Jagged Bones
Pwns AotL.  Life  03:41, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * actually on a Rt/M with Explosive growth in Urgoz, being able to spike everything in the area from raising 15 minions at once does a fuckton of damage. as well as fully recharges the energy bar of the rit and any necros in the area...but that's a different build.--72.189.85.14 04:25, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * That comment was completely random and has nothing to do with the build.  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 18:05, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Shitload of minions for 15 energy every ~47 seconds > one weaker (by like 3-4 levels) minion every 15 seconds. Plus, with AotL you basically can have only Animate Bone Minions and no other corpse exploitation spell. You don't need more. &mdash;  Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 06:04, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * You would only get 10 minions at best..and thats if the hero knows where to use it...My guess is you'd get around 4 each time, unless you micro'd it.  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 18:05, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Actually, heroes tend to use it where there are corpses. So if MM stays a little away from the battle and uses just Animate Minions, after a fight you have to make him run near defeated enemies. And boom, 7-8 minions. Because they don't like to use AotL as a buff (+1 DM) or to animate a single horror. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:47, 21 December 2008 (EST)

absolutely terrible
You just took great vanquishing build and made it into crap. Protip: they run it because roj doesnt cause scatter so why do you have skills on there which cause it? --83.251.172.0 06:33, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Right now, the only terrible thing is your... double-posting. No idea how that's possible on wiki. What skills cause scatter that are on the build page? And when did I took great vanquishing build? What are you talking about, are you some sort of insane person? &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 08:33, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Balthazar's Aura. And he's right, it's pretty counter productive. -- 08:33, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Then what else to fill in? I just use it between RoJs or on a teammate that is being attacked by monsters. That's causing scatter on purpose. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 08:47, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Smite Hex, honestly. -- 19:09, 20 December 2008 (EST)
 * Hmm. Good point, gonna change it and leave variants for a low-hex areas. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:38, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * Balthazar's Aura is used on an ally while RoJ is cast on foes. Balthazar's Aura has excellent damage and is a nice protection for caster allies, even if it scatters.  I have never seen heroes casting it on the minions which are suppose to hold the aggro.  The biggest drawback is the high energy cost, but GoLE can help.  Add BA and it makes HM SoO easy peasy.  --DarkSpirit 16:25, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

ur mm
is terrible-- Christmas Relyk  20:55, 24 December 2008 (EST)
 * Synergizes with the monks. Constructive criticism or gtho. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:42, 25 December 2008 (EST)
 * Lawl  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 03:17, 25 December 2008 (EST)

I know people have siad the MM synergises with the monks...but honestly I must be blind Im just not seeing how it synergises here any better then putting an MM into any random team, if thats the case could it be replaced with another Smite monk and also just wondering how this would run with the player as a non monk and then these other builds on hero's 149.135.96.233 07:28, 25 December 2008 (EST)

I think the MM can be considered to be replaced in areas that MMs dont work well. HM Shards of Orr is one area where the MM should be replaced by another RoJ monk since minions are quite useless in that place with lots of high damage AoE, and fewer exploitable corpses. -- DarkSpirit 16:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

BotM
I expect your minions to go kaboom during non-fight times. --''' —Chaos  Messenger   07:31, 25 December 2008 (EST)
 * Never had that problem, frankly. I have a lot of minions anyway thanks to AotL, I rarely have less than 3, which is enough to keep enemies in place to zomgsmite. Besides, it's in the variants. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 07:41, 25 December 2008 (EST)


 * Yesh, as long as it works. --''' —Chaos  Messenger  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|20px]] 08:41, 25 December 2008 (EST)

great?lol?
still the mm is terrible...if you want to use Aotl pls use it the right way...and Reversal of Damage is just not useful in a bar without zealots fire or smiter's Boon. Illoyon 20:07, 25 December 2008 (EST)
 * What did I say about being constructive or gtfo? RoD is useful, prevents damage and deals damage. Zealot's Fire is lol and scatter, Smiter's Boon is worth only when you have 2 or more smiting spells that target an ally. The Mo/E with Smite Condition has Smiter's Boon. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 03:17, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * For a start, builds and their talkpages don't belong to you, so you have no right to ask people to "gtfo". If you think someone is breaching policies, post on the admin noticeboard. Next, the second and third monk bars do not need GoLE, castigation is more than enough to manage energy. Put in something like smite hex, or another utility skill.Pika Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 03:31, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well, I did notice that during battle they have 40-45 energy all the time. How about Aegis? I'd lower a point in Divine Favor and Heroes would chain it. Or Prot Spirit. Although I do think that there is something about constructive criticism. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 03:38, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * Aegis chains are good. Prot spirit MAY have to be microed a bit, but it's good too. Pika Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 03:41, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * Added a list of variants, as I've noticed there are a lot of good skills from other professions. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 03:51, 26 December 2008 (EST)

This is horrid!!!!
Hi, broken indent. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:18, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * Looking at this most imbalanced way to go through pve I am horrified instead of being ~trying to find good word that fits in here suggestions welcome~! It looks as if it was set up by drunk person.
 * Where are Smite Conditions? Theres one, ONLY ONE 7 SECOND RECHARGE CONDITION REMOVAL???!!! you must be joking.
 * Deny Hexes and only one Smite Hex? I respect synergy between skills, I understand you have several divine favor skills on you bar but you are supposed to be dealing damage to overcome lack of minion wall. Understand that with lower recharge mob skills on Hard Mode hexes would be stacked faster than you can cleanse them with Deny so fast kill is best option which triple Smite Hex can do with its armor ignoring holy damage. Maybe, on slower or joke build I would have been fine with Deny, but no way on fast killer.
 * Resurrection Chant, most pathetic, miserable of monk resurrects after Resurrect itself, being half the distance closer to the raging battle for 6 seconds is not good for monk. Smiter's Boon should be on every bar.
 * GoLE there is no need for it you drown in energy and wont be spending lot of time in one unless it goes wrong then your heroes will start Resurrection Chanting and you are doomed anyway...
 * Only reason I didnt go to scrap all that mess and bring this build to its well deserved perfection is because I was weary of creating the stupid, pointless "write something on talk page before you edit another horribly written build article pushed into Great section" drama thing with which I had problems last month.
 * That said, I'm going to fix some stuff on the article you can revert but I wouldnt care but will only be glad that I am not as horribly stupid as you (no offense). --Anonimous. 16:54, 29 December 2008 (EST)


 * Do not edit anything. It's not like sabway would remove hexes and it makes sausage out of everything out there that comes in its way. PvE foes don't daze, and if they do, they daze the minions. What do you want monks to wear, resurrection signet? Lulzy. Those builds will be run by friggin' heroes, they stand next to the player = in battle, right behind the minion wall. This is gud, you're almost worse than me --''' —Santa's  Messenger  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|20px]] 17:15, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * ^  Ŀ¥ЅЅΔΝ ● 55!  17:18, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * What you have just said makes absolutely no sense. Where is minion wall? MINION WALL WHERE ARE YOU!!! No minion wall. You mean that alternative necromancer with most pathetic, useless, miserable spell Aura of the Lich which became even worse after the update? That is no MM. The whole idea of running slow ugly minion master with my aweasomely powerful fast rojers makes me very sad.
 * As for conditions sabway that you have mentioned could remove up to 3 at one time every 3 seconds which was sufficient. No no, removing one every 7 is not good enough hence conditions are much more common and annoying than hexes why not use them to deal more armor ignoring wonderful holy damage? You must! In the end it all comes down to damage, the more damage you deal the better it can compete with moving fortress named Discord-way. Dont be pussy. --Anonimous. 17:39, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * Until you get people to agree with the changes, don't change it. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  18:27, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * This site is not dimocracy from what I know. Dont revert if you cannot provide any good reason for that and if you cant see why this article is poor I feel sorry for you. --Anonimous. 18:41, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * plz teech me 2 pve mr anonimous
 * Don't make a change unless you have a good reason. --Ojamo  (>.<( O=(- -Q)  18:50, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * Look at that big wall of text on top of topic, that very good reason to change seeing nobody could argue against it so dont revert without good reason for it. --Anonimous. 18:59, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * k, good point about condiremoval, but res chant is fine. also, discuss before the change. --Ojamo  (>.<( O=(- -Q)  19:01, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * Keep res chant, add condi removal, make smite hex a variant [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  19:03, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * Would keep Smite Hex on main bar because superior damage is only thing you compete with Discrd-way. Hexes in pve are somewhat rare too, they are cast randomly and oftenly (insdious parasite on monk) that said removing all of them is not as important as dealing damage additionally hero AI on Deny Hexes is poor they will rarely synergize it with DH and HD in addition to it being hard to do in the first place. --Anonimous. 19:16, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * The primary places I see this being used are areas with Undead, and undead have lots of hexes. The only difference between Deny Hexes and Smite hex is that smite hex does some damage to enemies near you and heals for double.  But, deny hexes removes multiple hexes at once, and is better for removing spammed hexes.  In non-undead areas, Smite hex might be a smart idea, but as it stands, your suggestion that it is superior to Deny seems like a suggestion that a 600 shouldn't bring SB because not all enemies attack with spells.  While technically correct, the areas you would use this build the most in are better suited for a particular skill.  Hence, "Smite Hex" should be listed as a variant.  --Snakes on a Wii 19:28, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * Primero, you don't need that much condition removal in PvE, especially since you have a MM. Segundo, Smite Hex is there for damage mainly. And tercero, I don't recall Sabway having anti-hexes. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:42, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Deny hexes is strong, but smite hex is stronger. You don't face hex stack/spam so often in PvE, and even so, running DH/PnH would be a better idea anyway. You optimize the build you are running before you enter a map.Pika Fan  22:06, 27 December 2008 (EST) 06:12, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * @ Snakes on a Wii:
 * Undead? You dont have clear understanding of build's purpose. This is not for killing undead this is for general vanquishing everywhere using RoJ, one and only (armor ignoring) Holy Damage AoE that doesnt cause scatter meaning you no longer have AoE related problems, mobs sit there being killed. End result is that it has damage superior to Discord-way which compensates for lack of several defensive features, with all around best defense is good offense build RoJ-way has to exploit as much damage sources as possible.
 * Deny Hexes even if it could remove two hexes after DH or HD are used is not superior to Smite Hex because it cannot kill or heal with its effect being redundant due to high re-applying rates of hexes and lack of adequate hex stacking. Note "could" in majority of cases you would remove one and only hex or waste party wide heal just to give DH more power. As for your comparison with 600 Monk it makes absolutely no sense AT ALL you dont have to be hit with spells to activate SB heal otherwise 1kk worth of all my CoF runs was nothing more than dreaming.
 * @ Abedeus:
 * Why the heck does it have MM in the first place?! Only drunk person would ever consider MM with RoJ-way taking away speed and damage and providing nothing in return. Fact that you still argue for MM means you never became sober. Personally I dont see how your MM would decrease the ammount of conditions placed on you which you could have used to deal an additional damage with Smite Condition to kill faster conditions are more common in pve that hexes. Smite Hex is damage and you need damage much more than you need massively redundant Deny Hexes so you agreed with my point here. Lastly Sabway does have hex removal I guess you dont know enough?
 * @ Pika Fan:
 * Someone has brain at last!!??
 * Every single argument I have read against Smite Hex was either made by drunk or noob, as usual PvX considers things on blank piece of paper "ZOMG, DENY HEXES REMOVES THREE HEXES HOW COOL IS THAT???!!!" no it is not, there are nothing for and against to consider on blank pieve of paper you need to put it on actual build and consider it there with all the alternatives with logic of given build in mind. --Anonimous. 07:07, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * AotL makes a crapload of minions in PvE although I'd want to see BotM in the mainbar. Pull, walk behind the minion wall, minions take the aggro and as such all the conditions too. Most monsters rush straight into the minion wall and are as such tightly packed because they're stupid and then get hit by RoJ and exploding minions, giving new food to AotL. Minions get the hexes too, and often they're so randomly cast that if a Backfire (assuming a mob actually happens to have it) finally gets through on one of the monks it still gets removed. --''' —Santa's  Messenger  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|20px]] 07:15, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Bullcrap, nothing is that perfect with magical ivincible minion wall keeping you entirely free of hexes, conditions, damage, vanquish area for you and make you cup of coffee all at same time. You're thinking on blank piece of paper again reality is different caster hex and cast through your wall ranged physicals oftenly ignore it and bash your guys, your wall no matter how big would be raped by Hard Mode mobs because you have no debuff like weakness, shadow of fear, reckless haste ect.
 * You go start playing, see how minion master takes time to raise his army, that you will constantly have to disable Death Nova so it comes with half wall unDN'ed, how fast weak lvl14 minion dies under the force of Hard Mode beast. You might catch pair of aoe hexes, spells and handful of melees thats it, heck you dont need hold for anything ranged it stays immobile fixed on your defensive mode monk who BURNS IT WITH ROJ CANNON AND LAUGHS AT ITS FACE. More RoJ is more power, be pussy take MM but I strongly ensist it is variant to full three RoJ how it should be done.
 * On related note fix MM too, indeed you have to get BoTM otherwise you cannot transport you wall properly you dont get any benifit from minion dieing outside battle. Healing Seed, Healing Ribbon big NO NO, there are better alternatives protection spirit, aegis, extinguish, heal party included.
 * Discuss that. --Anonimous. 07:46, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Dwayna's Sorrow. That, and the fact that with 1 skill raising 8 minions it's not really long time to get an army. /discussion. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 10:25, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Most people dont micro and your hero wont wait for lot of corpses to be availible before it casts AotL in addition to that even if you manualy use AotL it wont help fact of your minion wall being destroed at the start of battle and new minion wall raised by AotL will be weakenned drammatically by the time you move to next mob.
 * MM makes good variant for Dwayna's Sorrow and little protection it would bring but killing faster is better. --Anonimous. 10:43, 30 December 2008 (EST)

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+3 sou=8+1 prot=9 heal=5][Aura of the Lich][Animate Bone Minions][Putrid Bile][Death Nova][Blood of the Master][Dwayna's Sorrow][Protective Spirit][Aegis][/build]
 * Thats what I have suggest for MM.
 * First of all you have higher death magic rate which increases damage dealt by Death Nova and Putrid Bile compensating for lack of another RoJ monk. You have BotM to transport you minion wall around without it being way too weak to make any significance. Increased Death Magic attribute level to 16 to increase overall level of minions and their numbers, level10 minion wont stand any chance versus strong fierce Hard Mode beasts nor they are going to provide strong exploisions with DN now you have bigger, stronger minion wall which would actually provide good defense and offense. Dropped DS to level5 at which point it would heal for enough from you minion wall without getting in its way overheal is not good. Now you have protection spells on you MM who has great energy management ability from his wall and fast killing pace of RoJ monks hence is best for this job, no longer has SoLS for same reasons. --Anonimous. 10:56, 30 December 2008 (EST)

Revert war on PvE build
Is it that time of month again? ^__^  Ricky vantof  18:48, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * I always get caught up in this shit. I need to stop trolling RC. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  18:53, 29 December 2008 (EST)

name
ION CANNONNN or Rayway like on guru are much more good sounding. Discuss. --Anonimous. 09:20, 30 December 2008 (EST)


 * Ion Cannon is a leet name, I agree. But the name is up to the author. --''' —Santa's  Messenger  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|20px]] 09:56, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Sorry, Ion Cannon doesn't have anything to do with the build or the skills. Rayway sounds retarded, no offense. It's just a stupid way of naming builds;put one word and add -way. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 10:24, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * You think "Smiteball" sounds really clever?
 * Really like Ion Cannon it sounds nice, isnt stupid and relates to RoJ very well if you look at animation. Think lot of people should agree on name change because Smiteball doesnt suit this build in any way it is not about Smiting its about RoJ. --Anonimous. 10:35, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * WOW... Anonimous doesn't know what smiteball is... It's a classic HA build with similar tactics. --Snakes on a Wii 14:50, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Maybe because he didn't play the game back then. Or he was one of them PvErs that used pre-mades to fight in RA. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 14:51, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Maybe, but it still betrays a profound ignorance of the game and a stark slap in the face to all of his claims of superiority and experience. --Snakes on a Wii 14:53, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * As Phenaxkian has cleverly saidon my Talk Page stop being stupid...
 * Tell me how do you relate "You think "Smiteball" sounds really clever?" to me not knowing what kind of build it was? --Anonimous. 19:20, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * It doesn't matter. It is completely irrelevant to the build, and I will not waste my time arguing with you so that you can defend it.  Perhaps if you spent more time engaging in constructive dialogue and practiced a bit more humility towards your fellow editors we wouldn't have to fill the build talk page with inane drivel and self-satisfying rants about how you're the only one here who knows what he or she is doing. --Snakes on a Wii 20:22, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Think you should chill out and stop being overly defensive at anything related and not related to you and start being more constructive.
 * Name doesnt matter, but it is more relevant because from what I know way suggests you use/abuse/exploit one game mechanic basing your build around it...something like that...pvp crap. Ion Cannon, isnt it? Just look at animation. :p --Anonimous. 07:30, 31 December 2008 (EST)

See, PvE is srs bsns. We argue about such important things. God Zefir  19:48, 30 December 2008 (EST)

Ideal player build
They should be there because no matter how unreal it might sound there are builds that work better or worse with roj. --Anonimous. 19:22, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * wut? tell me more about the ideal player build concept cause i have no clue what ur getting at (creating a new section with this name?) [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  19:25, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * OP suggested monk player build (bad one but whatever) why not suggest more. Im just following that make everyone know before you edit thing... --Anonimous. 19:29, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Eh, it really depends on the preference of the player. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  19:47, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah. It works on both my Ranger and my Monk. Btw, why the hell Minion Master has BONE HORROR? He already has those... Why you didn't just go to Sabway build and change his Bone Minions to Horrors, too? &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 03:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * Use your brain? Because you have so many minions animating power animating two at one time proves redundant, keepind an army of level 19 bone horrors all the time is easy enough to not trade them for weaker level 14 Bone Minions as the provide stronger healthier and more damaging wall additionally Bone Horrors have lower energy cost. As for sabway, you dont have as much minion raising power with Jagged Bones and for your notice (cant believe you didnt know) higher level minion wall of Fiends, Shambs or Horrors works better as even Sab herself has suggested. --Anonimous. 07:25, 31 December 2008 (EST)


 * The other moment you said that AotL makes no minion wall. Get Shamblings imo, they're tough and give double energy if they get swiped aside by AotL. Agreed on the fact that with such a skill like AotL you don't need minions. --''' —Santa's  Messenger  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|20px]] 09:48, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * Why is it just me that thinks that having weak minions explode is good? You don't need Shamblings (25 recharge says hi), you just need Animate Bone Minions (Animate is just nice during AoTL's recharge) and AoTL. Your minions aren't meant to uber tanks or to do damage by attacking, they are meant to soak up a (little) bit of damage, kerxplode, and make new bodies so new minions can be animated before enemy mobs come and nom nom nom your actual players.75.92.46.118 23:03, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * sure sucks to be a minion. -- -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 04:16, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Indeed it does, but look at the bright side, if somebody brings Jagged Bones, you can die yet AGAIN! Yay!75.92.46.118 17:47, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't look at any sides, I'm bound to my master's mind which I obey bad :< -- -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 17:58, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Start thinking outside the box! You might be a minion, but at least you aren't a stupid hero that can't even maintain mending on itself without having a real person help it by cancelling mending then manually clicking on it.75.92.46.118 20:13, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Player bar
Please make it better. Wisdom should be mainbar IMO. --User: <font color="Green">Thc 16:54, 9 February 2009 (EST)

PvE Meta Tag?
Does this deserve one? I'm seeing this build EVERYWHERE now. However, I think we need to make it like discordway and lose the player. There's no reason to limit the player to running a monk when you can easily go /Mo on any caster and use RoJ + w/e the hell else you want. Oh, and this may be a bad idea, but why try to compress the bars like discordway and use RoJ on all three heroes with a couple of minion skills on two bars and 1 straight heal/prot? What do you guys think? <font face="Arial" color="gray">16:49, 5 March 2009
 * anyone? (oh, and thanks for adding the tag Pika) [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">17:45, 5 March 2009
 * actually anything works as a player slot <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  17:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * exactly my point. So you think we should remove it too? [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">17:52, 5 March 2009
 * We need to decide on the best version of this. There are so many variations.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, I know. I honestly try to compress the three hero bars and give them all RoJ kinda how discordway does. But we really need to look at this better. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">18:02, 5 March 2009
 * I either run 3 RoJ, 2 RoJ+RoJ snare ele, or 2 RoJ+tease mes. I never run an MM, although I probably should.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:14, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * i always take 3 RoJ's, we should remove the player slot tbh <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  18:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Snare and MM have the same basic concept. They both mitigate damage; however, MM's typically bomb which adds more damage but snare eles can typically blind. Btw, I'm setting up a page to look over the variations and try to decide if we should have 1 meta build or several builds. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">18:18, 5 March 2009
 * Here's the page Smiteball ideas. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">18:57, 5 March 2009

Survivability Problems
Even with 2 monk henchmen, I have problems staying alive in some places with this team build. For example, in assault on the stronghold, i can triple necro that in 6-8 mins with no problems. But with this, I often die repeatedly in the beginning. Any suggestions?--Vgfanatic2 01:41, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Then you're doing it wrong. Dying at the beginning is pretty sad tbh. What build are you running on yourself?  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 02:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * human monks --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  02:29, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * l2pull--Relyk 10:06, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Run this on ALL three of your smiters and see whether it works for you: [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]]<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">uɐɟ <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">ɐʞıd 10:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

What I'm trying to say is I've never had a problem except with this build so don't tell me I'm doing it wrong or learn to pull.--Vgfanatic2 13:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ur doing it wrong. Bring a roj monk, sabway healer and mm then and kill stuff slower--Relyk 05:51, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I wouldnt use thius build for stronghold, infact hero RoJ doesn't have as many applications as Sab/Disc especially in it's current form. --Anonimous. D: 09:51, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Does this work for 4 man ascalon?[[image:Newcandy2.jpg]] 05:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

3/19
Major change to build as well as clean up. Consensus was reached on GWG.
 * http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10344667
 * MM is unneeded and counter-productive to use of the build. Please discuss further change before editing or RV.  Do NOT revert before 3/19, as major cleanup was done as well.  --Zaney 01:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree on MM, I've never bothered with it for this build. Unless Castigation Signet is being used for damage, a mo/me would accomplish more.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 02:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Leave more optionals with suggestions such as Enfeeble, splinter, SoF, wards, etc. And there's no reason for the player build. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">06:30, 20 March 2009
 * So anyone care to explain why the MM is not needed if the player is a caster? - DarkSpirit 06:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as you have wards or water hexes or something to control movement, you don't need them. You kill so fast, that you don't need minions. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">06:35, 20 March 2009
 * And I suppose the player is expected to bring snares then? - DarkSpirit 06:37, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't, but that's a matter of preference. I make my heroes bring snares. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">06:38, 20 March 2009
 * So do I but I asked because I dont see them on these heroes. Thought I should bring that up since we have obviously removed the MM without adding a snare. - DarkSpirit 06:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Already brought up by me only a few lines earlier, "Leave more optionals with suggestions such as Enfeeble, splinter, SoF, wards, etc." I forgot to suggest water hexes, but that's what the "etc" is for. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">06:47, 20 March 2009