User talk:Choytw/Eternal Security

{| style="text-align:left;" width=100%
 * valign="top" style="background:#99ccff; padding:0.5em;" width=100% |
 * valign="top" style="background:#99ccff; padding:0.5em;" width=100% |

What is this even? 20:56, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * ;-) It's a southern babptist belief that once saved always saved.  Just wanted to see if anyone would bite. [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw Talk Debates  21:33, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't believe in that saving crap. Or Christianity for that matter. LET THE DISCUSSION BEGIN! --Guild of Deals * Wah Wah  Wah! * 21:34, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I really don't know what I can say to convince you. I will always be a believer since when I was about 5 years old, I had my thumb crushed flat and the next morning, woke up with it normal - no broken bones.  That alone does it for me, but it's a personal reason and not one easily believed by others. [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw Talk Debates  21:47, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * But anyway, anyone hold to eternal security? Or anyone have any objections to Christianity?  lol  that last should definitely get someone  [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw Talk Debates  22:07, 13 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Personally I have a wierdish belief, I think everyone has kind of a personal heaven, some just look kinda effed up lol, but definitely ideal for them, anyone else looking at it would just feel bad for them/think it was evil, ie hell...-- Under Gunned  12:19, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

@ Gunned
Why do you believe that? Choytw Talk Debates 12:20, 19 June 2008 (EDT)


 * because it makes sense to me, I really don't think everyone could really believe in the same heaven and think it was perfect.-- Under Gunned  12:33, 19 June 2008 (EDT)


 * I tend to disagree. Perhaps based on our understandings and experiences now, but I don't believe anyone would feel that way then. [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw Talk Debates  12:37, 19 June 2008 (EDT)


 * For example, a children's rights advocate would think that a child rapist's heaven was hell. :) naturally, the children would be a figament of the rapists concious, just like everyone involved in everyones' own slice of heaven. Its perfectly fine that you don't agree, thats just my opinion, not like any of us are going to find out and let everyone else know lol.-- Under Gunned  12:39, 19 June 2008 (EDT)


 * That kind've sounds, with your interweeving of all the heavens, like you're describing he here and now? [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw Talk Debates  12:52, 19 June 2008 (EDT)


 * I'm afraid you lost me at the he. and its not really a weave, another interpretation would be like rooms in an apartment building, every room is personalized, but with the same basic layout.-- Under Gunned  13:15, 19 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Sorry, got too excited and left of the 't', should be 'the' and not 'he'. I gotcha now, your comment, "just like everyone involved in everyones' own slice of heaven" was talking about the 'imaginary' people in each 'heaven' and not the interaction between them all.  Well first off, who sets these heaven's up? [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw Talk Debates  14:24, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, imagine God as a Web host or w/e for free websites, ad free maybe? Everyone is their own site creator.-- Under Gunned  22:46, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Just to clear that up a bit, there isn't like a session where you make decisions about any wall colors, its a subconcious thing that has been taylored over the course of your life.-- Under Gunned  23:54, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * So your idea does have a God then? I wasn't clear on if you mean it was an actual entity of it was similar but non-aware. [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw Talk Debates  14:31, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

I still don't understand
what is it? And I've read the comment above. stupid religions God  box    13:39, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It is a talk page godliest. --  Super Igor  *ninja!!*  13:42, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Eternal Security is a belief held by most Southern Baptists (and some other sects) and has the believer being saved, no matter his or her lifestyle from the point of salvation until death. [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw  Talk + 14:02, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I wish it were true, then even I would be able to get into heaven. :D - Star Seeker  |  My talk  11:27, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I honestly believe that anyone can get into Heaven, they just have to believe and accept Salvation. One of the problems with Eternal Security is the doctrine of election.  Basically it states that God, when creating each of us, decided where our destinations would be at that moment, despite any choices we would make.  I think this obviously goes against many passages such as, "It is my will that none should perish but that all would have everlasting life."  Anyway, maybe this will spark a bit more discussion  ;-)  [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw   Talk + 11:57, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't mean I was predetermined to get in heaven, eh. Anyway, doesn't this Eternal Security sort of encourage criminals and stuff? I mean, once you get salvation, you can do whatever you want. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  13:01, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I know what you meant, just bringing it back to topic ;-).  Yes and no, some eternal security proponents believe in the 'carnal christian', which is not biblical at all.  Others say that if one reverts back to a lifestyle of sin, then they were never saved to begin with.  However, if you look at James 5:19&20, it says, "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." which seems to say that a brother (christian) can 'err' so far as to have a dead soul.  So yes, personally, I believe that it promotes sin...or perhaps more precisely, does not condemn it.  [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]Choytw   Talk + 13:07, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
 * That's an interesting question actually, does it 'not condemn', or 'promote'? Because we're both on the same line here. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  13:17, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I've heard a lot of people say that you won't want to do anything like that after having been saved (eternal security proponets again), but the passage above as well as others seem to suggest otherwise. Regardless of whether preachers who teach this believe it does or does not condemn sin, many many people use it to justify living as they wish...it's their 'fire insurance'.  [[Image:choytw_sig_1.JPG|20px]]<font color="Blue">Choytw   <font color="Blue">Talk + 13:24, 26 June 2008 (EDT)


 * }