Archive talk:A/Me Perma CoP Farmer

Well this is my first build ever. Please discuss.My Name Is Fuz 20:36, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

This isn't only for farming UW, it can farm other places too. Just be careful on HM, as the monsters will scatter. So let's get the voting and discussing goin' here.My Name Is Fuz 22:33, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

Won't farm very fast, better off using Sliver...--Relyk 00:05, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't Aatxes have about 110 armor or so? So sliver = 10 damage out of 1000.--[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]The Gates  Assassin  00:08, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

You shouldn't have posted this build... now more people are gonna use it. This -isn't- for UW, its for TOMBS UW. It's not supposed to farm fast, using a variant of this I can -=Clear=- first level of tombs in 4-8min solo. Sliver doesn't do that. Also this has high survivability with Wurms, as long as you're smart about it and don't go running the moment you're about to cast SF. --Genossuke

Sidenote, Aatxes WILL get you even when you run Perma... --Genossuke
 * yay, selfish kids on the wiki! :3 --Saz 02:05, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Aataxes will only get you if you're dumb enough to attack. Cleared them just this morning. --71.229 02:33, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Aatxes didnt get me when i ran a/me build (different than this one) and with new buff i ran perma shadow easily.......sorry, your comment was incorrect. 68.54.131.134Lotus Foxfang

wow I have had this build in my userspace forever .... not cool Drahgal Meir 00:21, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Everyone's had this in their userspace forever. Besides, what the hell was he supposed to do, check every sandbox on the site and then ask your permission to use an idea he had too? --71.229 02:33, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * u can't farm smites lol?[[Image:Soul_Leech.jpg‎|19px]] warhound 
 * Ummm. smite hex anyone? Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk - Contributions 12:22, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Looks good to me, but will this work in HM? Ppl talk about the monsters will scatter, but as most of the damage is non-direct dont u think it also works in HM? Ashes 07:38, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It works in HM. --71.229 07:53, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I second that.It does work.Junior 11:13, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You do know.. that u cant give that one guy cred for making that build, that vid wasnt even posted as long as me and my friend dr arigato roboto have been using it, and i got it from him so... btw why does everyone post the good builds on here so noobs can rip(or try to rip) strats?--24.154.188.10 11:25, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * So noobs can rip strats? What does that mean? &not; Klump  eet  15:28 18/05/MMVIII
 * yes it works in hm. just don't overaggro, and take a caster spear as your weapon to bring them back if they do scatter (especially the one that you cast SoF on).--Reason.decrystallized 11:23, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Farming UW
What exactly in UW do you farm with this and for what? Selket Shadowdancer 13:53, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * For money (globs of ecto), and i guess you can basically solo it all... &not; Klump  eet  13:58, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I was always under the impression smite running was more profitable in UW though. Selket Shadowdancer 14:00, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * This can probably do them, but not as fast as other builds because it relies on degen. &not; Klump  eet  14:02, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Then if its slower on a more profitable run, why take it over other farming builds that do said run, faster? Sure its pretty fail safe if you get your timing right, but it would be pretty slow too, and other builds with practice can be used just as effectively if not better? Selket Shadowdancer 14:21, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Smites aren't more profitable--they actually drop fewer ectos than aatxes or dryders or dream riders--they're just easier to kill. THAT is the reason that more people farm them.  this won't kill them because they smite hex, but it WILL kill the more profitable monsters: slower than 2 man, but faster than most other 1 man farms, especially in nm when you can bunch 6 aatxes and 12 grasps up around you and nuke them all at once.  works in hm too, though slower as is to be expected.--Reason.decrystallized 11:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

What SS/Kurzick Rank?
Hey nice build..but what rank in SS and Kurzick should I am to successfully run this build (cry of pain etc.) I'm r8 kurzick but only r6 sunspear, so I guess remains farming?Stefan247 11:42, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * it will work with nearly any rank, but the higher rank you are, the faster it will be, and below a certain level it's so slow as to be pointless. those ranks that you mentioned would be fine.--Reason.decrystallized 11:46, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

I did it with R7 kurz R7 SS and it worked great^^ ty for posting the build :D. the best is that you cant overaggro :D

Spirit of Failure
[Spirit of failure@12] Instead of Energy Tap --Fox007  15:08, 16 May 2008 (EDT)


 * ^^^ infinite energy is good. Brandnew  pew pew me!  15:09, 16 May 2008 (EDT)


 * I'll add that to variants right now.My Name Is Fuz 15:13, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Main bar imo, since when is the target going to hit through Shadow Form? Selket Shadowdancer 16:13, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Much better for killing left over targets because you can't live on energy Tap for just one foe Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 17:30, 16 May 2008 (EDT)


 * kk. I'll add it to main bar and e-tap to variants.My Name Is Fuz 18:58, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

No HSC/HSR
for inspirtaion, how is this bad? Riff 20:25, 17 May 2008 (EDT)


 * it can mess up the chain, or so ive heard. i'll change it now.My Name Is Fuz 23:31, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

suggestion
Spirit of Failure gives you infinite energy. infinite. especially in hard mode. Channeling isn't needed AT ALL--I know because i've been running this without it, and it works just fine. Take light of deldrimmor instead for moar damage, or just radiation field like it says in variants. no reason to use that slot on e-management overkill when you could be killing stuff intead.--Reason.decrystallized 11:20, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * also: take a caster spear instead of melee weapon so you can throw it at stuff to bring them back from a scatter.--Reason.decrystallized 11:21, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Upcoming buff
Upcoming buff of shadowform means that you don't need Deadly Paradox to maintain it anymore. The duration is gonna be increased to 30 seconds at 12 shadow arts (only for PvE). 68.231.12.44 23:22, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Lets hope they drop it right down for PvP. Selket Shadowdancer 05:13, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Drool. there's a couple good farm builds that can save a skill slot and a lot of energy.--Reason.decrystallized 05:37, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Best thing is if DP isn't needed anymore then dagger spamming ftw! att: Sha=12 Crit=8 Dag=10+1+1 ? TBH wouldnt this make the build a bit too overpowered, even for PvE? Surely they will make a side effect to it somehow? Selket Shadowdancer 05:49, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * you have shadow form, screw your max health. 12+1+3 Shadow, 11+3 dagger, 6+2 CS.  or 10+3 dm 8 CS if you need that extra attunement rune.--Reason.decrystallized 05:54, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Good point on runes, however it will still be OP no? I doubt its going to be made quite that simple otherwise its all you'll probably see and will become the new tank for most high level areas no doubt. 12+3 Shadow, 10+3 crit, 8+3+1 Dagger? Throw on Critical Eye and Critical Agility and have a field day for energy management. Selket Shadowdancer 05:55, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Hell, give them another couple of weeks and they'll probably revert the Deadly Paradox nerfs and you won't even need to go /Me. Perma-SF critscythe = lol Pve? --71.208.126.245 06:53, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * They might not have to, actually. DP reduces recharge to 40 seconds, and if it lasts 30 seconds @12, then it will last longer at 15-16, possibly long enough to where a perfect enchant mod could bring it over 40.  then, GG PvE.  we'll have to see the progression at higher levels to know for sure, though.--Reason.decrystallized 07:40, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Quick maths works^^ 30-5=25 25/12=2.083333333 per rank 4x2.08333333=8.33333333 8.33333+30=38 thus at 16 shadow form will last 38 secs and if you take a perfect enchantment mod it will last a total of 46 seconds (OMG) DP + Shadowform at 16 with a perfect enchantment mod Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 07:53, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Why do you start with 30-5? &not; Klump eet  19:02 {GMT} 22-05-MMVIII
 * [mindbender@10] sais ohaidere to [Shadow Form@16] ?
 * Because duration at 0 is five. therefore, you've gone up 25 seconds with 12 attribute points, meaning that four more should add another 8 seconds or so, if the progression is linear.--Reason.decrystallized 15:20, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * But i am not sure if the noted numbers are from 12 or from 15 Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 16:03, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

(resetting indent). it is to lvl 15--at 15, it now lasts 30, and 32 @ 16, 25 @ 12. which means that you can now maintain it with considerably less than 16 points, but even at 16 you can't quite do it without both arcane echo AND deadly paradox. it will take some testing to determine optimal values for this and other perma-sf builds.--Reason.decrystallized 18:15, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * btw it IS maintanable @ 12, meaning you can now go mesmer primary in a perma build.--Reason.decrystallized 18:16, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Is it still being maintained via Deadly Paradox and Arcane Echo? Selket Shadowdancer 18:38, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * you still have to use both if you want perma. what the buff did was to make it much, much easier.--Reason.decrystallized 18:41, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * @10 it lasts 22 seconds, @9 20. you have to have a minimum of 21 seconds to perma, so you need a minimum of 10 to maintain it permanently.--Reason.decrystallized 18:44, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I also note, in passing, that you can now maintain SF while under natures renewal. obsidian behemoths, anyone?--Reason.decrystallized 18:53, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

idk why the time of shadow form won't go to what it is now...:| F U  Z 18:52, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * they haven't updated it yet, don't worry.--Reason.decrystallized 18:53, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * They have, notes on guildwiki, and Im already doing it with just 12 shadow arts, using DP and AE. It lasts 25 seconds at SA=12. Selket Shadowdancer 18:59, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * yeah, 25 seconds is more than enough, with a comfortable margin of error. no need for Shadow Arts to be higher than 12.--Reason.decrystallized 19:07, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Meaning this build is now probably more effective on a Mesmer primary. Selket Shadowdancer 19:10, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * probably yes, especially if you can find some AoE skill from mesmer to complement the damage.--Reason.decrystallized 21:08, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Change the name from A/Me Solo UW to A/Me solo
Lately i've been farming with this build a lot and have soloed Tombs and Ice Imps to get an IDS. So this may lead people to think that this build only works in the UW when in fact it works in many places.
 * Yeah, you can farm anywhere with this practically. As long as it doesnt use signets or touch skills you should be fine. Selket Shadowdancer 09:29, 25 May 2008 (EDT)


 * I'm new to this...not sure how to change the name lol. If someone can, please do change it to A/Me-Solo Assassin Farmer or whatever. F U  Z 17:18, 26 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Done.Mason717 22:54, 26 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Can you do IDS In HM? I thought ignite arrows pwns you through sf -.- --Ice24790 05:42, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

canneling + chaos plains
Channeling helps a lot, very well it does help, this can also farm chaos plains, add it NOW best place to farm, not having it mentioned here is idiotic.  Super Igor  06:24, 27 May 2008 (EDT)


 * added it.F U  Z 16:18, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Chaos Planes
If you can farm the chaos planes with it, dont you need to get past the behemoths to get there?82.72.233.33 08:39, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * you know a other way to get there then? Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 07:21, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * ehm...no, but if there is said that the chaos planes are good for farming with this build, how can you get there?82.72.233.33 08:39, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * How do you get past the two Behemoths that block and trap the entry to the area of Behemoths before the Chaos Planes? Selket Shadowdancer 20:42, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * the behemoth spawn points are random. rarely, the way will be completely blocked.  if it is, bad luck and try again.  but you can almost always get through them--just try not to get too close so you don't set off their traps (dash lets you run over them without blowing up ... usually :P).--Reason.decrystallized 12:52, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * OK, thanks. I'll give it another go in a bit. Selket Shadowdancer 15:34, 6 June 2008 (EDT)


 * haven't tried chaos planes yet, too lazy. but super igor says you can. i'll test that later.[[Image:Shadow Form.jpg|19px]] Assassin <font color="Gold">Of  <font color="Blue">Fuz  08:21, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

i cant get past the blacknesses82.72.233.33 08:39, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I can just wait for the 2 groups to come together then start running <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 09:52, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * yup, ur right, they hardly use shock, so you can just walk on

whoo! i got past them to the chaos planes :D i shaughtered the whole place and got a goldie, a max q9 fellblade and 6 ecto's! :D best build ever :D
 * Sign your comments with ~ please. I second that; got ~ 6 ectos and 6 golds in a half hour. In NM. In one run. Sweet. Anyways, I run it slightly differently: here's my suggestion/variant. No GWEN needed, Dash helps on the run and in case you mess up (I do :P I'm too busy slaughtering)

[build prof=assass/mesme shadow=12+1+3 illusion=12 inspiration=3][Deadly Paradox][Arcane Echo][Shadow Form][Clumsiness][Ether Nightmare][Cry of Pain][Channeling][Dash][/build]
 * This version > current for Chaos Planes IMO because a) non-EoTN (minor thing, but still) b) Dash is good for running and fleeing when you screw up, and when you run to the Planes it deaggros Blacknesses and prevents being trapped the Obsidian Guardians. c) Clumsiness = faster kills than LoD d) Channeling > Spirit of Failure IMO, you just need to pull the Dead Threshers out of the Bone Pits to a Rider when you get to the planes. Then the Mindblade Specters will fuel your e-management e) Viper's Defense only works on the Aatxes anyways, and just don't be stupid and get bodyblocked (or kill everything bodyblocking you). - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  14:33, 1 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Lol did IDS run today and got 2 IDS and a Black Dye from the cave. =D [[Image:Shattering Assault.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Assassin <font color="Green">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz 21:52, 1 June 2008 (EDT)


 * *IMPORTANT!* A good reason why IMO my version > the current; it's been speculated that killing all monsters simultaneously reduces drop rate. Finish then with Clumsiness to stagger the kills, increasing drop rate. - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  20:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Raptor Nestlings
Anyone tried this on the Raptor Nestlings in Riven Earth? I know we have millions of farms for them but its still worth a shot....Bloodmoon 23:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Sure, works. I mean Me/A does, so A/Me will probably work too. Just stay far from the boss. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 14:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Sliver famer is better because you can kill the boss with it. Selket Shadowdancer 18:38, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

really how can you keep SF up when the timing is so hard now. it keeps dropping on me.

Shadow Form Timing
How do you keep shadow form indefinitely. the sequence is near impossible now because it doesn't last the same anymore. Could someone explain how you get the sequence right?

Just work on it it will take getting used to but once you get it it is a lot easier Bloodmoon 17:10, 7 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Ok. With a Superior Shadow Arts rune and Shadow Arts at a total of 16 (12+1+3) and a weapon with an Enchantments last 20% longer modification you should be maintaining Shadow Form like this...


 * Cast Arcane Echo, Deadly Paradox, Shadow Form.
 * Watch Shadow Form recharge, when it gets between one third and halfway (normally around the bottom right corner) cast the copied Shadow Form.
 * When Arcane Echo and Shadow Form recharge repeat the above, you should have plenty of time to cast both spells.

It's that easy. :) Selket Shadowdancer 14:50, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * heh ... you should have tried it back when shadow form lasted 21 seconds @ 16 ... now THAT was a bitch to pull off ...--Reason.decrystallized 15:00, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Firstly, damn you fuzz, you beat me to an edit. Secondly, how long does a run take, seems like it would take a fairly long time. Azulaarance 17:07, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I did full Chaos Planes with a variant of this build in ~40 minutes IIRC. Could have been faster, but it's ok. Got a couple of e and a couple gold weps on that run ^_^ - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  18:20, 9 June 2008 (EDT)


 * All my friends in [KISS] are pulling off runs at about 30 mins. each and getting 5-11 ectos per run. We have shared at least 3 builds to farm UW with, all of which work perfectly, this being one. The most popular among the alliance that I have yet to try is this mini skill bar I have posted below. Like I said, never tried it, but they all say it works. So, for now, I'll trust em till I test it out. If anyone decides to put that build on wiki (unless I put it on there first =P), please, give me and my alliance some credit.
 * [[Image:Shattering Assault.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Assassin <font color="Green">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz 20:43, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You get no credit for submitting builds to PvX, especially coming from KISS! ;) Selket Shadowdancer 08:07, 10 June 2008 (EDT)


 * ='( [[Image:Shattering Assault.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Assassin <font color="Green">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz 10:10, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm from KISS too! --Vgfanatic2 15:49, 20 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Lol.[[Image:Shadow Form.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">Assassin <font color="Silver">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz 11:34, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

For those who are having a hard time timing it, someone made a texmod file that changes the look of shadow form so there is a white bar on it. At 16 shadow arts if you cast when the duration bar hits the white one, you'll always be fine. Its a GREAT help. You can find it on the user made mods on the guildwars wiki.

Equipment Question
Tried this build and like it but I have one question: What is the best wand/offhand to use. Unless I missed it in the chat, there is only a mention of an inspiration offhand, and I would like to know what is preferred to be used by others. Redhandsgw


 * I use a totem axe and the offhand I use is an inspiration offhand with energy+12(req 9) Inspiration +1(20% chance). Hope that helps. [[Image:Shadow Form.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">Assassin <font color="Silver">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz 13:44, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Ty for the advice. I think I shall now go and but those lol--Redhandsgw

Greens...
So far i have tried the Acolyte of Melandru in HM with this build. It took a while, but be patient and he will die. I advise against radiation field or any poisoning, because the kournans have some kind of disease transfer, so it could end up killing you. About to check Balthazar and so on. :) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Binxster29 (contribs).

Ok, big no no on Acolyte of Balthazar...too many PBAoE attacks, and the seige attacks. Too bad though. :( &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Binxster29 (contribs).
 * take the bonder.--Reason.decrystallized 05:21, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Also, about disease trasnfer... Disease spreads between creatures of the same kind and Kournans are still human, so.. &mdash; [[Image:DestructiveWasGlaiveInvert.jpg|20px]] <font color="#00ff84">eX <font color="#00a2ff">tinctioN (<font color="#ff8a00">Talk /<font color="#ff5400">Contributions ) 14:55, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Nerf
This build along with many other builds just got today by Shadow Form doing 50% less damage. Flare 19:07, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Just throw in more degen. Selket Shadowdancer 19:20, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * IMO, this one is worth not archiving. Sure, you can't solo UW, but it still is very functional as a general purpose farmer. Much of its damage is from degen anyways. - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  19:32, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Degen still works same as always, build still works fine this is one of the few SF builds that wasn't nerfed --MLegion 12:56, 3 July 2008 (EDT)


 * This sucks. They kept the Me/A perma builds but not this one? Do I need to take out CoP for more degen or something?[[Image:Shadow Form.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">Assassin <font color="Silver">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz 09:25, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

This is NOT worth archiving, it can still farm the UW...it has -8 hp degen in minimun power!
 * I agree, the nerf didn't hurt this build that much really. Selket Shadowdancer 18:11, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
 * erm unarchive? its now 33% and no whatever those things are that used the signet, so who would do the honours of unarchiving?(dont know how X.X) RangerManger555 05:54, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

All the other SF builds have been moved back into testing so I've unarchived this and moved back also. I'll put a note up on AN about vote removal. Selket Shadowdancer 06:37, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

chaos plains + hex breaker
does it still work? cba to test it myself ...-- reason '''.  decrystallized '  In real life, pokemons would be used as sex toys. '' 06:53, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, being alot more hex heavy than the A/E version (that only needs to hex every 30 seconds) I'm not sure. I'll give it a go in a bit and get back to you. Perhaps swap Ether Nightmare for Radiation Field? Selket Shadowdancer 06:58, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
 * CoP requires a mesmer hex to deal damage. the way i see is to throw ether nightmare into hex breaker, then before they reapply use SoF.  question is, would hex breaker apply only for the first mob, or for every mob in the area?  you HAVE to have more than just SoF, though, because it has a longer recharge than hex breaker.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    In real life, pokemons would be used as sex toys.  07:07, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
 * maybe take channeling instead and just use degen against mindblades, but they have a godawful amount of health anymore, and it would take forever even at 10 pips.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   In real life, pokemons would be used as sex toys.  07:09, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
 * At the moment, the best chaos planes farmer is probably going to be the dagger solo sin (haven't tested but I would imagine it would be). Selket Shadowdancer 07:59, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm thinking the same, though you'd have to take a variant from the main bar--ie, probably drop asuran scan for IMS, and take wild strike over Golden fang as over time the extra damage will add up to over 100 ... except with the AoE from DB maybe not. would have to test.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    In real life, pokemons would be used as sex toys.  08:04, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

chamber
this build owns at clearing the chamber quest in HM. 6 minutes. 7 on a bad day. <Font size=2 color=blue>Sir</Font> Nothing  [OUCH]  18:01, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

Chaos plains
Im using the A/Me ver and after i finished off the aaxtes i wanted to go to the plains,after 3 tries,idied at the 1st group of benemoths in the entrance to the twin serpent mts,the traps just own me,i got 405 hp,am i doing something wrong? 96.254.169.210 16:23, 7 November 2008 (EST)

p.s. i go in with shadow form on if that makes a diffi 96.254.169.210 16:27, 7 November 2008 (EST)


 * Depending on the spawn, sometimes you can't get in. Usually there is enough space to crawl through, though.  If you got hit by the traps, but made it past, take off your headpiece for an extra 75 health and a better chance to survive the degen.

spiders
can u kill the spiders in the cave in FoW??

radiation field
any replacement for this? i'm not going to pass through half of eotn just to get this skill >.> --83.4.251.240 15:05, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * Viper's Defense will provide the same degen but won't spread the degen around. You could use Light of Deldrimor too I guess. Spaggage  talk  15:11, 29 November 2008 (EST)


 * You don't have to have Radiation Field, it just gives extra degen. [[Image:Shadow Form.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">Assassin <font color="Silver">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz 22:38, 1 December 2008 (EST)

delete?
No longer do-able due to Shadow Form nerf, delete?
 * i dont know if it lasts long enough so...perhaps.-- Ikimono <font color ="Silver">I know my Paragons [[Image:Paragon-icon-small.png]] 14:55, 12 December 2008 (EST)
 * the nerf creates energy problems and makes timing more difficult. however, with the freakin massive emanagement that this build offers, the former isn't a problem at all.  still works just fine, it's just a little harder to do.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  17:19, 12 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yes like he said the update just made perma'ing harder not impossible.Fire and deaths 18:31, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Ruined by nerf..
This build no longer works... shadow form runs out way to fast.. stupid anet ruin everything &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.27.201.126 (talk • contribs) 07:43, December 14, 2008 (CDT).
 * Read the topic above you. Someone was able to do it.  Toraen  (Talk  /  Contrib)  06:47, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Explain?
It is not possible.. arcane echo does not recharge fast enough for you to recast your perma.. its something like 2 seconds out. If this build does work and im missing something please explain HOW?

Works like normal, you just need 16 shadow arts.

Lol..
Dont lie to yourself no it doesnt. I have 16 shadow arts.. i have everything. arcane echo doesnt recharge fat enough stop lieing to yourself
 * yes, it does. ur doin it rong.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  15:45, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * does it still work after nerf? Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 15:47, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * *facepalm*-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  15:53, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * yes but it is kinda tight though. <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 15:59, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Hm - I am definitely no expert and it's the first tiem I tried it ... unfortunately on the Vaettir where it takes FOREVER to kill them ... but with a 20% enchant and 16 Shadow Arts it works nicely. As with some 30 Vaettir around you energy is not a problem but .... there's faster ways to skin a Vaettir ... still - to all unbelievers .... it is perfectly maintainable even after the December nerf - the short duration requires good energy management though. 79.216.216.125 16:27, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Yes the build still works for tombs, UW, and parts of FoW; the energy is just alot tighter now. If you think the build doesn't still work, you're either doing something wrong, don't have enough energy, or just plain suck at this and need to practice. Like everything in life, this takes practice. [[Image:Shadow Form.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">Assassin <font color="Silver">Of  <font color="Black">Fuz  17:53, 28 December 2008 (EST)

if you're doing a/me vaettir farming, i suggest you go on youtube and look for some a/e vaettir farming vids. you farm vaettir faster with a running a/e build. you'd understand why after watching the video--Lusciious 11:41, 15 January 2009 (EST)

it works after nerf just fine. think about it, Shadow form lasts 22seconds with a 20% enchant mod that is 24. Now if u cast a echoed shadow form 19 seconds after the original that would leave u 24 seconds to recharge arcane echo, when it only requires 21[counting the added second left after the 2nd cast of shadow form]. Leaving u with 2 seconds to cast echo and the 1 second left to cast another shadowform

This Works. I Farm UW just fine.

Auspicious Incantation?
Anyone know if it would be possible to drop, say, Channeling for Auspicious Incantation? It would give you ~30 energy after casting arcane echo, lowering the cost of the whole chain. Comments?--Glory 19:05, 28 December 2008 (EST)

I don't think its need, this build has great energy management. Even with the resent nerf my energy was always fine--User:elkzone8 11:13, 28 December 2008 (EST)
 * energy here is overkill anyway. channeling and SoF give you more than enough.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  07:10, 29 December 2008 (EST)

echoed SF
ok so this is probably stupid but when u cast the echoed shadow form do u use deadly paradox? or do u just do deadly paradox > arcane echo > shadow form > attack skills > echo shadow form > attacks > deadly paradox > arcane echo > shadow form etc
 * no Deathly for echoed Shadowform. <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 11:15, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Archive
It's too slow because of the gay SF nerf. I say we should archive.<font color="Blue">...::: <font color="Black">Fuz  <font color="Blue">:::...  08:56, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * I run faster than every single A/E that I have ever grouped with for tombs, it should still work for UW. What are u complaining about? --Bubba
 * this uses mostly degen and shouldn't be effected by the damage nerf <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 11:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

This Build Works But 55 monk SS is still faster...
Well maybe you do have to split ur ecto.. but even if you do ul still get them faster on this build... and no matter how much u practice. there is still a very high chance death. u cant ALLWAYS get it at exactly the same point. deadly paradox and glyph or swiftness is so much eaisier than this.
 * This build is for people with no friends. - [[Image:Panic_sig7.gif‎]] 16:31, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Even I can easily maintain SF with arcane echo. You don't need to hit an EXACT point on the recharge to maintain it. And what Panic said. [[Image:ToraenSig1.jpg]]  Toraen  Dirt to da face!  16:33, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Farming Locations = Possibly add more to the list!
Alot of people already know quite a few places to farm with this build and it's variants and some of the builds here on pvx have a list of locations for our viewing pleasure ;) so if people wouldnt mind would/could we add to the list if you farm a place and it is successful or not? It would be nice to have a list thats all i am thinking... T1Cybernetic 21:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yea, i said it was slow b/c my account doesn't have kurz or lux title which means no ether nightmare (my sin was on bro's account). I'm tryin to get the skills so i can have fun on my sin again. And to the comment about more farm spots: until i get the skills again, i'll leave it to u guys to help with the farm spots. I'm hoping that by the end of this week or next i'll have the skills. Thanks to the person that changed the name btw, i hated the old one. My Name Is Fuz 03:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Chaos Plains variant
Theorycraft at the moment, but I'd imagine this should be able to farm the Chaos Plains with ease, assuming you can get past the Chargeds. Any thoughts? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't work
This doesn't work. Shadowform wears off too fast. Always comes under a second too slow. Or am I doing something wrong?
 * Make sure you have a +20% enchanting mod and 16 shadow arts. It will work if you have that. Toraen   talk  04:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "This doesnt work" Yea it does. Just because its not as easy as A/E doesn't mean it doesn't work. Make sure you have a 20% enchanting weapon and cast the Echoed SF when it reaches the bottom left corner. Practice makes perfect. <font color="Blue">...::: <font color="Black">Fuz  <font color="Blue">:::...  01:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone ought to make a texmod that isn't that retarded enchant-duration based one, imo. It's not hard if you know where to hit the skill, but it can be a problem if you don't. (If I'm feeling particularly enthusiastic about logging the texture, I might get around to making one tonight.) ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:10, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

You have to cast SF when the recharge indicator is about 60% through the echoed SF. I was make the mistake of cating it a little to soon.Consider if it was a clock cast between 7:00- 8:00 on the small hand and you will have 1-3 seconds to spare.--Cancerman66 18:55, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

CoP Nurf
Now deals half it's previous damage at max rank (50)... Is this still fast enough? &mdash; DarK  10:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No. --Anonimous. D: 10:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No? If anything, the build is faster now that you get additional degen, at least against non-fleshy mobs. All ANet did in respect to permas was speed them up. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * At r1 Kurz/Lux and r3 Asura, you're already getting every foe at 10 degen, and then another 4 unseen degen with disease from Rad Field. Therefore, CoP's degen is pretty much useless, so if anyone could find any replacement skills that give damage rather than degen, I'd be happy. I'm too lazy right now. Sanzath 20:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, foes like Grasping Darknesses are immune to disease, so they're only affected by the first 5 seconds of degen from the ward. Also, the additional degen can help counter foes with natural regen, like Aatxes. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  20:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Cry only did 2/3 of the damage already and does like 1/2 that now but with degen, it kills just as fast. and you dont even need rad field now unless they have natural degen like danny said--Relyk 08:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Wondering...
Can this farm vaettir (glacial stones)?--88.16.237.42 10:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Most probably, it can farm most things without heals and things which go through SF. Consitini 10:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It can, just be sure to ball them up against a wall like the last usage point says. Toraen   talk  13:49, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Cave Spider Question
So pretty much everything I've seen on this site says that if you move in to melee range of all of the spiders they will not use healing spring anymore. Is this still true if you use ether nightmare and radiation field? I could be grouping them wrong, but to test I just walked up to one spider by itself and it still used healing spring.

I can take them out if I use a death blossom build, and in that case, the only spider that seems to use hspring is the one I'm attacking. I like the feel of the a/me build more so I would prefer to use that if possible. Anyone have any ideas?

edit: you can kill the spiders solely with spirit of failure + cop repeatedly on the same spider. The degen from it won't cause others to use healing spring. You can also drop radiation field for LOD if you want to speed it up as well.

Skeletons of Dhuume
Can this build kill the skeletons of Dhuume? Do they create a problem with the effectiveness of the build since their attacks go through shadow form?


 * Yes it can, NM and HM, just use walls to block their skills, if you do it right they wont even hit you once. Dayway uses nearly the same build, just no arcane echo coz they use essence. <font color="Red">Tha Pigfishers are BACK 17:01, January 2, 2010 (UTC)