Archive talk:Team - HA Quicksand/Famine

How to fit in hard res? Also, NR + SoA is =/ -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 18:17, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * its mostly for ghostly maps. and hard res --> res chant monk or song on monk and flesh/pact on trapper. Gringo 18:34, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * What happens when they kill Quicksand? D: Ben ..Squint  18:49, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Then they have energy until you renew it =/ The build is however not completely dependent on it, and you just have to summon it safe, if possible. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 18:51, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * I just mashed Chant because I cbf thinking of anything for the free'd optional on the ranger. I moved it to testing, but do you/anyone see room for improvement? Jake had his variant I could post if I get exited. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 18:51, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Change third BB to spirit spam + brutal. We used to ditch the pnh for an IH trapper and put remove hex on one of the trappers. But w/e--TahiriVeila 19:21, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Spirit spam bar? Also, mainbar or variant, or mainbar that and variant the other one? -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 19:35, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Either way, I'll get to it. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 19:41, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

weapon of fury or you lose. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  20:18, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * criteye is already there to cover for energy loss, IH will be mashed in for the adrenaline effect. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 20:21, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Weapon of Fury, tbh. You don't need dual OoS anyway. Just leave 3 BBs and add WoF over OoS on one rit. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  20:24, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * The rit's energy will already be hard with Quicksand, I think I trust Jake/Saint on this one =/ -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 20:26, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Spirit Siphon m8. You have minimum 3 5 6 spirits to draw from. I haven't even looked at the rit bars, but I'll bet there're even more there. ···  Danny   Pew   Pew  20:31, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Too bad u can't fit "Fear Me!" on the frontliners bars. That would make for some serious pressure. As it is the two ranger elites seem like kind of a waste of elite slots?Wynne 20:38, October 6, 2009 (UTC)Wynne
 * You've never fought through an area with Quicksand in PvE before, obviously. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  20:41, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Spirit Siphon is viable. I'll fix these bars as far as I can and let someone with any knowledge of anything finish the bars and fit in Siphon as necessary. Hoping for Jake to finish the spammer bar. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 20:51, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * why no NR btw? Exo Oo 20:18, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Because I accidentally removed it :> I took a break forgot what I was doing at the moment. I'll put it back in later. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 07:51, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

What optional on Spirit Spammer, what elite for Necrit? -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 08:23, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't it lack of hex counter? --GothicNeko 09:39, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Nature's Renewal counters it somewhat much, and I thought of some hex removal optional on the ritttttt -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 13:12, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * For the rit i think we either took like wanderlust or expel. And then OoS on both n/rt--TahiriVeila 14:13, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Alex told me to go OoS since it has Brutal Weapon, otherwise I would've mainbarred Expel.. But yeah. D'oh, ofc the backline needs OoS.
 * Expel + Spirit Siphon? -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 14:22, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Brutal isn't hard on energy due to the recharge and the fact there's only 2 peopleto put it on Exo Oo 16:56, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * I never even took a look at it tbh, I just assumed the recharge is 5s :> -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 17:10, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

tbh
2 BBs are never, ever, ever going to kill anything unless the other team's backline falls asleep. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  20:22, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * The energy pressure is quite huge tbh ;o -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 20:36, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree, Having played a hexway build before with two mesmers shutting down the monks completely, only 1 BB sin was needed to selectively spike targets while our midline messaged the other teams players.--72.189.82.222 22:12, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Only if the other team's monks are either wanding or forgetting to channel tank. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  21:26, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Owell. Enchants last shorter, cast 2x longer, and monks require 1 more foe to channel tank from for normal energy gain. That's a headache to some pointtt. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 21:38, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * What it really comes down to is whether or not your spirits can stay up, as well as whether or not the match lasts more than 2 minutes. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  21:50, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * If you summon them right + abuse trappers they should be capable of staying alive. Also, though Quicksand/Famine + much of this other stuff was my own idea, the actual bars (I heard, everyone claims builds) belong to Rawr, so I assume that they're actually worth something too. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 21:55, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * What if u took Dev hammer wars instead of BB sins. Weakness would force the backline to cast more maybe?Wynne 22:09, October 13, 2009 (UTC)Wynne
 * Not enough damage to push kills -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 22:17, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Why not make this build even lamer and take out infuriating for smoke trap. That way the monks have to cast through daze, giving the bb sins more time to kill. If daze is removed, then gg, the monks have to cast more. Just a suggestion. 80.0.214.167 20:11, October 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * spirit transfer uses enemy spirits as well? Also, can you take out something for an energy denial mesmer? --Extreme Zer0 23:17, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Spirit Transfer is how secondary rits catch spikes.... and you shouldn't need a mes with Quicksand. Shazzy diddles 05:03, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

you need
3 bb sins. drop your infuriating heat. even if the 2 bb's can spam their bb, they wont be able to spam their chains, so its better to have a 3rd bb doing way way more damage. put MH on the other spirit spammer. Gringo 18:11, October 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Perma Q-Lock is good.--Ikimono  "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 18:23, October 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * not when prots follow deep wound for guardian. most targets dont even have to be perma knocked, just monks, and theyll have most of the prots anyway. a third bb is better. Gringo 18:59, October 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Rawrles told me to run dual BB. So far pretty much everyone has claimed to have created this so I don't know who the hellllll to listen to. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 10:30, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * yea because its a highly unoriginal idea. and get apply/barbed off your trappers, whoever came up with that should be shot. 2 traps, 2 spirits, 1 res, 1 stance, 2 utility spots. not hard to do. Gringo 14:59, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * You can shoot Alex for me all you want, but he offered to get me a Bambi, so hold on for a while.
 * It's basically built up like that, though the utility slot has been taken liberties with. I have Alex and Jake telling me to run 2x BB sins etc, and I have you wanting to run it with more brute force. Would be nice to know who's right and who's not =/ -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 16:09, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Alex ran 3 trappers with Smurf, but the bars were completely different on the trappers and the spirit spammer, so don't worry about that. Gringo 16:47, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 17:08, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Alex originally showed me this build like 8 months ago, i took it to borat and we ran with it. Borat and I had essentially what's on the build page now (with some minor changes to the trappers) and we had some mild success with it. Idk, it's not like it's spectacular and will instantly become meta or anything, but it's not bad either--TahiriVeila 17:31, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * errr, borat and i ran what it was when there were 2 BBs. my bad--TahiriVeila 17:32, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * S'fine, call it not having a clue of who to listen to. I cbf varianting all the time. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 17:35, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

WoF
^ tbh. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  21:26, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

NO
^ tbh. Gringo 21:39, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

WHAT'S
^ the point of the Spirit Spammer? Ben ..Squint 21:42, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * The give your backline infinite spirits (so more condi removal from MBaS), and for pro damage obviously.
 * Alright, but it seems like a waste. Have the OoS Rits take Fucken Siphon Spirit over OoS if there are gonna be like 10 spirits down the entire time.  Either way, it seems like a wasted character.  At least give him some HA utility over Painful Bond and stuff.  or just eliminate him for a third backliner or something.  Ben ..Squint  22:11, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ also use Weapon of Fury so your sins can actually use their chain more than once a match and not need +5e daggers. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  22:59, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

THiS IS FUN
^ tbh :D! Ricky vantof 21:44, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * <3 Also, Danny, no, WoF is not gonna be put there =/ -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 10:21, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Your sins will be useless. Try running this. Building adrenaline and keeping it up means you will never be able to actually launch a chain, not to mention that you'll need 35e to pull of the chain. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  18:10, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm with Danny on this one. It can replace an OoS..Just take Spirit Siphon.  (See a-motherfucking-bove) Ben ..Squint  18:44, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * just optional it then methinks. make the elite optional and list like oos/wof/wod or w/e Gringo 19:07, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

So
Are N/Rts good again now? I thought OoS Rt/As were the thing outside of builds with QZ which use E/Rts still (i.e. IWAY) since they have better healing power and some self-defense. 188.74.101.228 17:06, October 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * N/Rt's have more energy -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 18:40, October 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but is that worth the self-defense and shorter weap spell durations? Although I guess this is a QS build, so yeah you probably need the energy. Still kinda fragile, though. 188.74.101.228 00:47, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * This build is a terrible example of a place to use necrits, but in proper builds like Jaggedway or Lichway, they can be more effective than a monk sitting on altar. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  21:28, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * how is this a "terrible example of a place to use n/rts"? just because you don't have a jagged bones minion master? Gringo 21:45, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Mostly. You probably don't have 3 people dying every 15 seconds with this. ;o ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  21:50, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * and? yea jaggedway abuses soul reaping, this just takes advantage of it, doesn't abuse it (because not every build can abuse it by sacrificing a whole character spot). the only reason abusing it in jagged is good it cuz its 7 necros (i know you know that, pointing it out for the rest). Gringo 21:57, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * it's not as stupidly powerful e-management here is all i'm saying. Having to take OoS instead of being able to take WoD or Reaper's Mark just isn't as strong. :< ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  22:00, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

i haven't thought this through yet at all, but why not run Me/Rt's? or perhaps just one. half-second WoW makes me hard. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  22:01, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * because interrupts are far more prevelant in places like gvg and TA/ca. when its 1v1v1, you need all the energy management you can get to try and hold both teams for as long as possible, and soul reaping really comes into play at times like that. also, when you are just ressed, its nice to pop oos and have enough energy to heal, not needing another person to die just to get energy. Gringo 22:09, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * meh. i'd still rather take Spirit Siphon than blow an elite, but I see the point. also, interrupts are pretty prevalent in 1v1 matches in HA, but I guess if you're not winning those anyway, you've got no chance on altars. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  22:11, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * people mostly focus on rupting ghostlies + snarers on most matches, not really backline (until you face a good balance, which you aren't winning anyway with a pugged spiritway). Gringo 22:15, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Goog build take out the rits and place in backline monk and prism ele. then add like good nec and a good ranger for rupts/Snare