Archive talk:Team - Urgoz Cryway

2250 AoE damage if everyone's got max Sunspear. Has a shitload of defense against physicals (Life Bond, Aegis, Shield Guardian, lolClumsinessWanderingEye), but not lotsa armor/damage reduction. Any thoughts? ــмıкε нaшк  18:59, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Im not PvE'r but imbagons aren't called imbagons for no reason :> -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 19:03, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't need an imbagon if everything dies instantly...Life Guardian 19:04, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * There wouldn't be any monsters left to build adrenaline on by attacking. XD ــмıкε  нaшк  19:33, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Bump. ــмıкε нaшк  20:40, 29 October 2008 (EDT)


 * Needs an ss, splinter barrage with eoe, a second tank to make pulling easy, an AB paragon so the sin can do some real pulls such as in the room with the twisted bark that provides Sheer Exhaustion & the room after. At least 1 cryer needs deep freeze, earthquake is nice to slow down any wolves that aggro casters. The Mesmer build is pretty nasty in general. Ether is basically a waste on a sin, which also needs deaths charge in case of getting stuck. Bip build made my eyes bleed. Use 2 HB's or a UA & a HB as healers, ether renewal is useless as there is a bip. Look into eotn skills like Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom to fill in the empty slots in the ss and cryer bars.
 * An SS or Barrager wouldn't be able to keep up with the huge AoE damage the Mesmers provide in just a couple seconds, although I'd still like to find a way to bring EoE; maybe on the BiP? =/
 * AP is actually pretty good on those Mesmers, as it allows them to recharge all of their skills, including "BUH!" and Arcane Echo much sooner so they can blow up another group. Generally, if your team is coordinated enough, you'll be able to wipe out a mob before they even look past your Sin, and if any monsters do try to attack anyone other than your Sin, you've got Dual Aegis, Shield Guardian and 9 copies of Clumsiness+Wandering Eye.
 * I originally intended to put some maintainable enchantments on the Healer, but removed them, so I'll switch the E/Mo for a Monk or two.
 * The SF Sin has Dark Escape+Feigned Neutrality, so I don't really see why you'd need an AB Paragon or another tank. =/ ــмıкε  нaшк  21:29, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * 9 cryers is just stupid - half of the mesmers wouldn't even be able to use their skills because of the huge damage. And yes, DF if needed to avoid scattering. EoE is needed for Urgoz (preferably at 16 BM) since that's what kills him. EoE also helps with killing any remaining enemies after spikes. AP is useless - the mesmers don't need to have to skills recharged instantly since there will be like a minute til the next spike. An AB para is also needed - if you do the pulls correctly they will be huge and you'll take too much damage without AB. Also - http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c333/Yuri987/u23.jpg = record. 2 tanks, 4 cryers, 1 SS, 1 EoE ranger (me!), 1 AB para, 2 monks, 1 BiP. Perfect setup. ;) Ironboot 21:50, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Tbh, I still don't see the point in running an SS Necro. Clumsiness+Wandering Eye won't cause (as much) scattering, so things will go by faster. And, with so many Mesmers, you've got a shitload of defense through Clumsiness+Wandering, and everything will drop before they pose much of a threat, making an AB Paragon unnecessary most of the time.
 * Which Elite would you suggest running on the Mesmer's bars instead? Anything but Signet of Illusions. XD ــмıкε  нaшк  22:09, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Energy Surge Life Guardian 22:18, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * The SS does a lot of damage to Urgoz and helps with getting up on the platform to pull the lever. Leaving that to the BiP only makes it very complicated and the risk of him dying is very big. During normal spikes, the SS can just use echo + CoP. The "Clumsiness + Wandering defense" won't remove the need of an AB para - AB is used on the tanks BEFORE they pull, otherwise they die cos of PBAoE. The tanks also needs to ball the enemies and let the settle before the team can spike and need AB so survive long enough to do so.
 * And yes, I would suggest SoI as an elite. It adds more damage than max SS rank (makes CoP do more than 100) and gives great e-management (Auspicious Incantation at 17 Inspiration). It allows skills like DF and Earthquake to actually do damage. The spikes are also quicker since you can have 14 FC. Sure, you could take something like e-surge, but that would require heavy investment in both Illusion and Domination Magic to do enough damage, leaving little points left for Inspiration and Fast Casting. SoI is the best mesmer elite for Urgoz. And you should trust me and the bigfail Andy who forgot to sign up there, we are amongst the most experienced cryers in the game. ;)Ironboot 22:34, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * *Gives box of Kleenex* Charon 00:54, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * You'll have to help me with the bars, then. I'd like to include both "BUH!" and Intensity, if possible, though, because 156 damage from CoP would be great. =P
 * Apparently SoI only increased damage by 4 (see here), and this may have been fixed in an update. =/ ــмıкε  нaшк  07:26, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I doubt that you'll find enough mesmers with max rank - I used to do Urgoz and the Deep with an SS rank as low as 6 or 7 and I think that many did the same thing. Sure, if you manage to find enough (4 if you do it the good way, 9 if you do it your way) mesmers with maxed SS, another elite may prove more useful. But for the average player, SoI is the best elite for maximizing damage. I don't think both BUH and Intensity is needed. We used to to it without any of those skills and had enough damage. But BUH is an awesome skill and should be included now. Ironboot 10:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

[build prof=Mesmer/Elementalist Illusion=12+1+3 Fast=12+1][Signet of Illusions][Arcane Echo][Cry of Pain][Ether Nightmare][Auspicious Incantation@16][Optional][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build] I'm not sure what to drop for "BUH!" and/or Intensity, though. =/ [build prof=P/Mo Command=12+1 Leadership=12+1+3][Angelic Bond][Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom]["There's Nothing to Fear!"]["Stand Your Ground!"][Enduring Harmony][Air of Superiority][Balthazar's Spirit][Signet of Return][/build] [build prof=N/Me Curses=12+1+3 SoulReaping=10+1 BloodMagic=8+1][Arcane Echo][Spiteful Spirit@18][Cry of Pain][Enfeebling Blood@18][Awaken the Blood][Air of Superiority][Consume Corpse@2][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]
 * [[Deep Freeze@16].
 * [[Earthquake@16].

Do those look about right? =/ ــмıкε  нaшк  16:33, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

[build prof=Mesmer/Elementalist Illusion=12+1+3 Fast=12+1][Signet of Illusions][Optional][Cry of Pain][Ether Nightmare][Wandering Eye][Optional]["By Ural's Hammer!"][Auspicious Incantation][/build]
 * Deep Freeze on 2 mesmers, Empathy on 1 of them, Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support on the other.
 * Earthquake + something random on 1
 * Flesh of My Flesh + Technobabble on 1

Para bar looks fine... Not sure about AoS though. Reckless Haste on the SS is pointless since HM enemies already have max attack speed. The SS needs Necrotic Traversal/Consume Corpse too reach the lever too.
 * SS - Swop AoS for Technobabble, reckless for arcane mimicry so they can sac to death after pulling lever, awaken the blood for "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and res sig for either insidious parasite or assassin support. In mesmer optionals add Clumsiness, assassin support, ebon battle standard of wisdom, and the mesmer with best sunspear rank should take VoR. Bip only needs 9 blood magic if runed properly and a splinter barrage will do 50% of the damage to urgoz, and unless theyre really slow, can easily keep up with spikes.

The bar should just be general Cryway, tbh. [build prof=any/mesmer][arcane echo][echo][Cry of Pain][Ether Nightmare][Optional][Optional][Optional][Optional][/build] Mason717 01:07, 14 November 2008 (EST) Repace one echo with wandering. Repace one echo with clumsiness. Gz you just saved 20 energy and a shit load of recharge times. You also have a free elite slot. For high ranked sunspears, VoR or E-surge. For low ranked, SoI & more pvx only skills like ebon wards. Think about what your saying, even concider re-reading it once youve typed it and maybe even look at more than 1 build and not just copy across the first one you find. Andy 07:52, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Simple question: Have you tried it and if you have does it work? and How long does it take for a run? - Greatrabe 19:35, 18 November 2008 (EST)

aw this build actually looked good lol :( Farmingftw 18:00, 23 November 2008 (EST)
 * If anyone wants to fix it up, be my guest. I don't know the meta for Urgoz's very well, and I'm very lazy atm. ــмıкε  нaшк  18:03, 23 November 2008 (EST)

i would but i don't know pvx codes and all that very well and it still seems to work Farmingftw 18:11, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Poor
Quite a poor attempt on cryway. I moved it to testing anyway, following the common "quality doesnt matter as long as the build is meta" practice. --217.44.184.14 18:14, 23 November 2008 (EST)
 * This version isn't actually meta, it's just a bunch of builds I threw together. ــмıкε  нaшк  18:16, 23 November 2008 (EST)

xD and if tht's true quite well done, 2250 (max titles) damage which most is Armour ignoring and can be repeated without a long recharge time, i don't see much wrong with that. Except that there is no usage through the whole area xD Farmingftw 18:20, 23 November 2008 (EST)
 * I have noticed that this is a bunch of builds. Even if you dont classify cryway as meta, it doesnt deserve a trash. Will try to improve this article later, gtg now. --217.44.184.14 18:22, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Suggestion
Cant be bothered to type the usages out but:

Dual tank means you have mobs ready for nuking without downtime, have easier life with dredge (disenchantment) and a better wall. --217.42.52.211 13:37, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Yeah I've seen this work nice. Makes pulling much faster and safer. Defensive stance instead of shield. Throw recall on the sin for skipping and only need Channeling as energy management. 79.75.53.62 15:27, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Changes
Improved upon this build based on my expirience and info I have found on this User:AthrunFeya page. I changed skills that I didnt understand and cant deside on ranger or another mesmer with EoE. --Anonimous. 16:12, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * Lot of the skills you changed have been nerfed since that page was updated. EoE on ranger adds about 10 damage a hit if runed right and not really worth having a mesmer messing about with it, specially when splinter can do over 1000 damage, with arrow damage on top of that. Aegis is nice in the Exhaustion room if any wolves aggro is stolen as they hit hard. SYG on para is nice if you do a proper pull in the room after the room with the bark that puts Sheer Exhaustion on you, as churning earth is often used on the casters. Andy 18:51, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * I still cant quite get why original build had arcane mimicry almost on every character. Is it to have mimicry UA mantained on every character? Or an ability to mimicry SS/VoR after with SoI mesmer? --Anonimous. 05:46, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * There are various reasons, but the most important one got nerfed, so don't worry yourself with that :p. SS has mimicry so once he has jumped up to use the door button, can mimicry BiP and die quickly. Andy 06:15, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * You mean UA nerf :p ? I added barrage ranger with aoe, added lod monk who can mimicry UA for good party wide and ability to chain aegis, replaced AI with essence strike on splinter mesmer becausse 17 spec essence strike, and dont know what to replace on SS for arcane mimicry.
 * Things that bug me are BiP with necrotic traversal because SS has one so why the hell? EVSS because it is somewhat counterproductive to kill a monster before cryers can cry it but I might be wrong.
 * Check out the changes, tell me what you think. :) --Anonimous. 07:19, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * I would keep the monk as HB. Heal Party heals for more, has a nice recharge and is needed to keep the sin alive in big pulls. We have a bip so energy is no problem, specially as the mesmers have good energy management. Chain aegis is a bit pointless imo, the only time it is needed is in the Sheer exhaustion corridors when wolves aggroing casters is likely. Yeah Sniper Support sucks now, take that out. The builds were designed for record speed runs - SS takes one side, BiP takes the other, you only have to kill 2 enemies, spike spike jump jump die die res res and your in the next room. Don't see the point in essence strike really, not much damage and against 1 foe. Just give resmer auspicious and its fine. Andy 07:35, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * Went back to HB, back to one aegis, took out sniper support on the nec for arcane mimicry. Essence strike is for energy management, splinter cryer has no 25 energy spell means AI is not so effective, you end up having higher energy gain with essence strike I think.
 * So far things I am thinking of are if I need arcane mimicry on splinter mesmer because mimicry VoR or SS every 60 seconds is not that good but I am still curious what was the nerfed reason to have it. I want to give splinter mesmer Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom because it will be more title-friendly than having it on BiP. Wondering what to give BiP instead of two Ebon Vanguard skills too.
 * Tell me if you can pls. --Anonimous. 09:51, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * Looks good. Generally, the people I played with, it was quite a thing of "if you have the skills, take them", as so few had the pve only skills on the character they were playing. We put the skills on bip for the same reason you haven't taken them off yet. Yeah, mimicry was for UA, though there isn't much need for it now. I would keep it though, specially as there is so little need for extra damage or utility. The builds don't need to be so precise - as long as each person has their basic function, the other skills don't matter too much, especially for the mesmers. Andy 10:12, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * Ok, there arent many high quality build articles on here but mostly because I want to make the job well and learn some new stuff myself.
 * Changed ebon ward on BiP with breath of the great dwarf because it is less effected by the title and should be useful in the room with flowers. Splinter mesmer now has ebon standard of wisdom which it can use to maximum potential having low vanguard title and is closer to other cryers. Currently thinking of giving mimicry to BiP so it can have UA just in case.
 * Anyway, I think it is time to think of equipment and guide sections more. :) --Anonimous. 10:44, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Yeah, the PvE section is mostly rubbish, is nice when someone with a brain comes along and does an article well. Yeah, those changes can't hurt, and I don't see the other skills being of much use. I haven't done much urgoz ever, and certainly not recently, so wont be much use in the walk through, though the equipment should be pretty basic. Andy 11:09, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * HB monk needs moar e management.Pika Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 06:35, 30 November 2008 (EST)
 * You have BiP. --Anonimous. 06:36, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Move to Testing
Moved. Have perfected the guide skill-wise. Have added weapons and armor, check them out. :) Added see also sectio with useful links. People who play this type of build should be familiar with tactics involved. Will write up profound guide to going through deep later. --Anonimous. 07:22, 2 December 2008 (EST)
 * So why is there a paragon and a warrior? Completely unnecessary.  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 22:29, 7 December 2008 (EST)
 * Makes pulling ridiculously fast and easy. Read previous discussion before repeating whats already been said. Andy 10:36, 8 December 2008 (EST)
 * Or you could replace with 2 more permas? Door block, multiple pullers, invincible against everything but burning brushes. AB isn't needed if there's competent permas who know how to use feigned neutrality and IAU!  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 20:02, 8 December 2008 (EST)
 * Clearly you lack experience in this style of playing. Ball a bunch of foes using permas and every damage spell they have is recharged. Mesmers go into spike, all c-123 end up standing ontop of eachother, if they dont die in one go then the mesmers will likely get killed. Warrior took little damage, kept the monks alert and let the enemies waste most their spells on the tank. Perma is also boring as hell to play. Changed to perma because of AB nerf, made it safer using perma, though would probably use warrior again if we ran this regularly. Andy 16:02, 8 January 2009 (EST)

11/12/08 Update
Starting to make the appropriate changes. Feel free to discuss. Andy 12:13, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Para needs replacing - I've never played an para and never intend to, so suggestions are welcome. Was thinking of throwing in a couple more party buffs and finding a decent elite. I'll do it if I get really bored, which is very unlikely. Andy 12:27, 14 December 2008 (EST)

keep the paragon, party wide reduction ftw lol especially if the tank does lose aggro (shouldn't but does.....), maybe change to an imbagon if you don't like it as it is. (yh i am a bit in fav for the para ^^)Farmingftw 12:17, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah defiantly keeping - as we have way too much damage as it is, no point changing to that, and is more effective at reducing damage than a monk is at healing. Really nice in bits like Room seven & eight where restacking is required and as we're using permas, all their spells are recharged and sometimes used on casters during a bad spike (pugs win). Not much point in an imbagon - will have have the chance to build up adrenaline and SYG & tntf should do the job, though there is probably some more helpful skills out there. I was thinking SYG, "TNTF!", Enduring Harmony, Sig of Return, CoP, "Fall Back!". That leaves 1 normal skill and an elite. If we can't find anything, "Incoming!" will do to cycle with "Fall Back!", though I'm sure there is something better out there... Andy 14:31, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Few things

 * Good luck finding a wand of enchanting.
 * your paragon sucks ass.
 * -- Ikimono I know Paragons. Shut up and listen [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 13:17, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Never thought or cared for the equiptment so don't look at me. If you need a guide to tell you how to do your armour your a retard. Check the post one above yours. Theres no point coming here to tell people what they already know - if you got some suggestions would be great to hear them but otherwise your wasting your time. Andy 13:59, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Drop the paragon for a third sin? Better walls ftw.  Life [[Image:Life Guardian-AoF.jpg|19px]] 22:41, 9 January 2009 (EST)

3 Sins are overkill lol, another mes is overkill as well...... you might as well keep the paragon as it is because if the aggro splits you have some reassurance (and don't tell me splits don't happen they do)or just change it for the incomming or something, or replace for another monk. Something like that Farmingftw 06:10, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * 3rd sin would slow down balling but it does add a backup tank and increase safety, but with cons is it needed? Don't think its the best idea. We have tried running a bonder, so the sins dont have to cast stoneflesh so often, but its hardly needed & boring as hell. Andy 08:24, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * well, at lest change it somehow. Angelic Bond has been put into the trash pile like (PvP) Smiter's Boon was.-- Ikimono I know Paragons. Shut up and listen [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 16:50, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not sure how you do it, but a third sin makes the 2 warden rooms easier and the final deathtrap room easier. It's not really overkill, just have the third one run a/me and bring recall.  Life [[Image:Life Guardian-AoF.jpg|19px]] 16:59, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * You have a point, a third sin could be helpful for an experienced group, but nobody is going to look at this after their first run, once they work out stuff like dual pulling they will know the outline of builds and will have changed them to their liking accordingly. For the people looking at this build is for, I don't think a third assassin will be of much help. Ikimono, if your such a pro at paragons, where are your ideas? As I've said, I dont know jack about them and don't want to either. Andy 20:21, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * That's the problem, i don't know what to say about the Para-Bonder because there isn't any "fix" to it other than perhaps what was said below.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 13:23, 12 February 2009 (EST)
 * Started taking a Mo/P bonder instead, with some useful command like "fall back!". As the PvX build currently is though, perma takes far too much damage the moment stoneflesh goes down. Lau  [[Image:User_Athrun_Feya_Hamster.png‎ ]] ( athrun | feya ) 05:34, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah, Bonder definatly best option now I've seen the skill level of the average pug permas and pug monks. Andy 11:40, 9 February 2009 (EST)

Paragon
I think its outdated after Angelic Bond nerf. --Anonimous. D: 11:11, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Indeed, check the post one above yours. Andy 16:20, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Doesnt mean this article should be kept at lower standard. I'm currently thinking about Incoming... --Anonimous. D: 21:24, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Go for it. Little else of help and Mr.Pro Paragon has failed to do anything but bitch. Andy 13:55, 25 January 2009 (EST)

The Equipment...
..listed for most characters is a bit strange, no? Lau  ( athrun | feya ) 05:36, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * Probably. Would you mind updating the article a bit? You're probably the best person for the job. - [[Image:Panic_sig7.gif‎]] 05:50, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * Blitztime. Lau  [[Image:User_Athrun_Feya_Hamster.png‎ ]] ( athrun | feya ) 13:21, 12 February 2009 (EST)

Spelling/Grammar
^ They matter. I cleaned up all the spelling I could stand to look at, but the grammar is still pretty awful. I recommend that someone go through this and clean it up. 15:13, 16 March 2009

Bonding
Who does the bonder have to bond? Swift Thief 19:55, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Only the tanks need it, but barrier on other important roles such as Healers and Caller wouldn't hurt. Andy 21:19, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Still Viable?
I haven't seen an update to this build since before Cry of Pain was nerfed last month. I was wondering if its still viable? I've seen other RoJ cryer groups, e.g. FoW Cryway, get left behind for other builds. So is this still good to run? Or does it need an overhaul?
 * The amount fo extra damage in this build is so ridiculous that i would imagine that it does fine.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 22:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the rediculous amount of excess damage is enough that the recent changes has barely changed the effectivness. Andy 23:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Masochism change
Now that Masochism has been changed, the Bipper is not going to gain energy from it anymore. I suggest swapping it out for Signet of the lost Souls. As Soul Reaping is set fairly high, this should be viable. Template Code: [OANDQrpvS3BzBVVBEvO0l4ihBA] Klefer 08:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair, will change soonish. A <font color="Black">ndy 11:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)