Archive talk:N/D Mystic Orders

regen isnt that great of healing unless you always run below 200hp.--Coloneh 06:13, 7 November 2007 (CET)


 * If you're not running that low of health, then you really shouldn't be running an Orders. If you're talking about Blood Bond, well, any support healing can usually help. Unless you've got a better suggestion. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  04:05, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * does it say you should be running at low health in the build? if it does, i missed it and im an idiot. if it dosnt you might wanna put that in there.--Coloneh 06:25, 9 November 2007 (CET)


 * Well, by the attributes your health is automatically at 350, and if you'll look under armor, it says, "Taking 5 Superior runes is possible and can help greatly with saccing." I don't know how you missed that. Haha. T_T Either way, I hope this one's more to your liking that the Order of Masochism build. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  22:54, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * I read that. but it dosnt say how many superiors i should have, or if those extra ones are necessary. tell people what to do in a build, they already know its possible to take 5 superior runes.--Coloneh 23:05, 9 November 2007 (CET)


 * It's on there. 220 to 180 is probably the best. 105 tends to mean a 1-hit kill from the melee mobs and/or wurms if you get unlucky. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  00:21, 10 November 2007 (CET)

Maybe protective spirit would be better than mystic regeneration? This would allow you to go as low as you want as effectively sustain your hp.--68.102.128.17 18:07, 11 November 2007 (CET)


 * Are u kidding? [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (T/C/Sysop) 18:10, 11 November 2007 (CET)

Might want to add a OoV/BR variant there. Just used that in a Tombs run and worked great. Many thanks!Yagami 18:57, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * no. your an idiot. OoV/BR is terible, you only have OoV up 50% of the time.--Coloneh 20:26, 11 November 2007 (CET)


 * Coloneh.. stop with the personal insults to people, seriously. There's absolutely no need for it. Some people prefer OoV/BR, some prefer BiP. It doesn't really matter either which way. If you want a OoV build though, go look at Build:N/Mo Order of Masochism. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  23:04, 11 November 2007 (CET)


 * Hiya, thanks for the link. I'll check it out but I'll probably change it up a bit being that I'm not used to running dual orders and do perfectly fine with OoV/BR. To each their own way I suppose. Yagami 01:18, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * please dont suggest that using inferior builds is alright. "to each their own" is not a reason to teach others a build that can be outclassed in every way.--Coloneh 07:57, 12 November 2007 (CET)

Leyton
If an admin runs across this page, mind removing his vote? He doesn't seem to have knowledge on the subject of how percentages work in GW. Or you can change your vote yourself. Lemme explain. A) Awaken the Blood doesn't add 50% straight up. It adds 50% of the original cost. 33%/2 is about 16-17%, so you're only saccing 50%. B) if you're running 200 hp or lower, it takes you at most 5 seconds to regen that, if Blood Renewal doesn't kick in first for its 200 point heal. If things haven't changed the next time I'm on, I'll take this to the Admin noticeboard. cedave (contributions_buildpage)  02:27, 13 November 2007 (CET)

Holy Mother of PvX
I made a build that got a "Great" rating. I'm so happy I might pee myself. Here's to hoping the balance voters don't send this one to hell! Anyway, I'm still taking any additional help with this build. I haven't had any brilliant new ideas, myself, except Dark Fury as a variant, possibly. Again, thanks to everyone who contributed to this build and who voted. Coloneh, in specific had a lot of influence, as well as ign: Increase The Peace. cedave (contributions_buildpage)  21:21, 23 November 2007 (CET)

Farming
why is it under farming? Anow2 04:56, 17 December 2007 (CET)
 * Put new topics at the bottom of the page, please. My guess is that many places where a BiP is useful/necessary are many places that are usually farmed; i.e. FoW, UW, and DoA. --Mafaraxas 07:04, 17 December 2007 (CET)
 * B/P Tombs farming requires an Orders as a staple, pretty much. Also, yeah, Orders, or at least BiPs tend to run with most or all farming groups. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  07:36, 17 December 2007 (CET)

Lol ok Can you use this build solo in ToPK if so how do you deal damage
 * Sign ur comments. Also, you're lolbaed. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] ツ cedave   (☆contributions☆)  21:48, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

Possible Variant
If anyone thinks Awaken the Blood might still possibly be an issue for maintaining your health while saccing, you can replace it with Aura of Thorns since you already have 8 in earth prayers. The benefits to this: you still have an enchantment for Mystic Regen and Blood Bond, you have the defensive ability to kite melee, you sacrifice less health and can use BiP and OoP more frequently, you also have the choice of whether to spam Aura of Thorns or just use it as a defensive mechanism for kiting. The costs: 2 less dmg added by OoP, 1 less regen from BiP, Blood Bond, and Blood Renewal(and 20 less hp rewarded at the end of BR). I got the idea for this here: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/D_Mystic_Blood_Bonder

Archive
mystic regen has been nerfed, i can't see this working now--Drownz 16:51, 7 February 2008 (EST)
 * It's fine, you just can't use Blood Bond as much. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 19:05, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Will this work with heroes?
 * Nah, they don't use BiP well. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 21:57, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Actually, heroes can use a variant of this build. I haven't been on forever and don't remember the skill bar, but you just have to set them to avoid combat and give them party support. It can let your party run one monk. However, you do have to lock the hero onto your monk every time you enter a new area. Or at least I'm pretty sure that's how I was doing it. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  23:15, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Still has 16 regen with Blood Renewal. I say the Mystic Regen nerf does nothing to this. Rickyvantof 01:03, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Yeah, don't see the nerf hurting this too much. Just can't Blood Bond recklessly anymore.Socnicklin 11:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Solo Farming???
How can you solo farm with this?? It has no attacking techniques at all! 2 of the spells are target OTHER ally.

Now don't give me the usual "it's a partner build" crap. If it is it should be in the Team builds section and not this section. Tengu
 * It's used for ToPK, i think. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 16:40, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Well duh... Partner Orders? LOLWUT?  16:48, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Team builds are for builds consisting of 2 or more people, thus forming a team. This build is meant to be played with other people, which you should be able to understand quite easy. God  box   13:47, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
 * By saying that you just completely supported me by saying "2 or more people" builds go into team builds.Tengu 17:37, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm a bit late, it seems, but I'm pretty sure you can FARM with a TEAM. Ergo, I'm pretty sure this build belongs in FARMING and TEAMS. Yes? [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  19:24, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * If we went by that logic, every PvE build would be under farming (and even PvP builds; farming glad points, faction...), making the category completely pointless. -Mike 20:03, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Except this is meant to farm ToPK. Or that one Kurzick place. I'm assuming you've heard of those farm runs? Probably two of the more famous ones? And most builds aren't built for farming. C'mon now. Use some sense. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  20:07, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, farming section implies that the unit (build or builds) on the page is able to farm by itself. You don't see any of the other B/P (or whatever, i fail pve) chars here, so logic dictates that this does not belong here either. ~ ʑʌɱʌɳəəɺɨɳɳ [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 00:06, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, as a build that is primarily meant to assist farm runs, it wouldn't make much sense to list it as just general, as previously discussed. It was vetted Great as such, and unless a higher power deems it necessary and proper, I really don't feel it negatively affects the wiki, rather simply making it clear that this build should be used to support farm groups. I hope I made sense there, apologies if I didn't. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2"> ツ cedave  (contributions☆buildpage)  01:29, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * There's also Farming for PvE Titles, which this build, as most builds, can do (with a team, of course). -Mike 07:13, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

WELL
Woohoo, you can spread healing breeze around! Learn to 1hp.  Life  03:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Foul Feast
I think this is a better option over Awaken the Blood or Blood Renewal.(Mr Pink57 21:51, 4 June 2008 (EDT))
 * The degen might kill you if you play a 1 HP. -Mike 22:00, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, 'cause taking a condition transfer skill sans any condition removal skill is totally great. Especially in the areas this build should be used in. ESPECIALLY over the skill that pumps all your other skills or the skill that is your primary heal. Sheer genius! I think you just earned yourself a Thumbs Down signature. Feel free to use my sig as a template. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  00:42, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry. I iz ass. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  00:43, 5 June 2008 (EDT)


 * I lol'd. -- Mafaraxas ( talk  &bull;  contribs ) 02:05, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Just fyi. Foul Feast is for MMs. You use it with Infuse Condition 'cause they have something called synergy, yeye? I think I'm gonna stick to Necro builds.. They seem to be the only thing that I don't suck llama cock at, when it comes to making builds at least, yeye? [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  17:18, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Foul Feast also works with Melandru's Resilience, Contagion, Plague Sending, and a bunch of other skills that benefit from being affected by conditions, most of which are unused in PvE, though. If Mystic Regeneration hadn't been nerfed, Foul Feast would have been viable. >.> -Mike 17:39, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It's also decent in TA instead of Draw where you probably have a curses necro anyways. -- Mafaraxas ( talk  &bull;  contribs ) 17:48, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Does Mike get a cookie for being able to read the Wiki's synergy suggestions? And of course it would, Marfaxas. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure this build's a Blood Magic user, mostly. Hehe. <3 [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  23:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Of course, if you wanna be a dickhead, just take Foul Feast, Plague Sending, and Fevered dreams, seeing as there's bound to be at least somebody using plenty of conditions on the opposing team. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  23:57, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

Dark Fury? &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 00:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Dark Fury's a Variant for Blood Bond, although Awaken the Blood, Blood Renewal and Mystic Regeneration might be better choices to take out for Dark Fury. And yes cedave, I'd like my cookie now. =P -Mike 07:16, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * No, they wouldn't be better choices. At all. You need at least 10 regen, or at least 10 is preferrable, so MR and BR are both necessary unless you're running 55 or under. Awaken the Blood pumps up all your skills, which helps quite a bit. Dark Fury is rarely used, seeing as Barrage is generally run with Orders, and should only be used when running adrenaline heavy teams with which healing assistance shouldn't be required thanks to the increased armor of adrenal professions (Warriors and Paragons). [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  17:18, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

Mystic Regen v Healing Breeze
I would like to note that with the nerf to duration of Mystic Regen and the prior buffs to Healing Breeze, Healing Breeze might be a better substitute, so I'd like to open that for discussion. <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  17:30, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd like to note that this would open up a hard rez as well. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  17:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * If you had Healing Breeze, it would defeat the purpose of Blood Bond because you could just cast that on your allies insstead, unless you want +14 health regen ( which would counter most degen thrown at your team.) -Mike 17:57, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It could go either way, I think; Breeze has the longer duration therefore more Orders or BiP, but Mystic Regen has +2 regen advantage when you have the three enchants (all the time, when you need it). If you did go with Breeze, you could probably go 6+3 Soul Reaping and 11 Healing to hit the +8 breakpoint, in which case Mystic Regen's advantage is negligible enough.  And like you said, hard res. -- Mafaraxas  ( talk  &bull;  contribs ) 18:04, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I think I might re-submit with Healing Breeze on it. See how that goes, and if it goes really well, might archive this one due to MR nerfs. Either way, this build's still certainly viable, and it still works great. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  04:51, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You could use Healing Prayers for Heal Party, Heal Other/Jamei's Gaze, Vigorous Spirit and such. I don't think we've got a N/Mo BiP Orders with Healing Prayers, atm.

Something on the lines of that? ^ -Mike 08:25, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
 * If Soul Reaping were dropped to increase Healing Prayers, it wouldn't be advisable to take a 15 energy skill. Besides, if your monk can't keep your party alive with 10 energy regen, you really ought to find a new monk. If your monk were to get into trouble, however, GIft of Health if both an effective and cheap heal which would minimally incapacitate you. In combination with Healing Breeze, this should be plenty of support. Also, just keep in mind that Blood Renewal is relatively vital to this build due to it's large regen, low cost, and upon-end boon.


 * Perhaps? Or maybe just leave the GoH spot Optional? Maybe Purge Signet would be a decent idea? I'm also curious if it seems to be a consensus that Healing Breeze is more efficient and otherwise better than Mystic Regen. Would I be correct to assume that? [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  15:21, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I prefer Healing Breeze, tbh, but I probably wouldn't take Gift of Health. If you were to play this with 1HP, you wouldn't have to worry about energy because you could spam BiP to gain energy through Masochism, and Heal Party would be easily manageable. -Mike 15:26, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I'll just leave it optional.. lol. That makes it more adaptable, in the opinion of most people. I'll post it up soon. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  13:53, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

With the skill update as of 6/12/08, Mystic Regen has been buffed in PvE, rendering a swap to Healing Breeze to be useless. Healing Breeze will be listed as a Variant, but an entirely new build is no longer warranted. <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2"> ツ cedave  (contributions☆buildpage)  16:24, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * With enough enchantments on you, you'd be able to maintain Blood Bond on almost your entire team, or even take Foul Feast (still iffy, though). -Mike 16:47, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Once again, leave Foul Feast to your MM. He's actually around the other teammates and he probably has Infuse Condition. Also, you should only worry about Blood Bonding your Monk, maybe your MM if he's in serious shit. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2"> ツ cedave  (contributions☆buildpage)  19:06, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * The mystic regen buff to pve hardly did anything. 5 secs off recharge, wow. But even with the pvp version of mystic regen, the current version would be better than healing breeze, because you can't maintain breeze on multiple people cost-effectively. Edit: # of enchants. lol. ~ ʑʌɱʌɳəəɺɨɳɳ [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 00:50, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 * lolol. Yeah. If that hadn't been edited, Healing Breeze would be betterer. It'd still be viable, but Breezy Orders might be copyrighted by Sun Microsystems... (EDIT: If you're wondering, yes, that was a rather lame JAVA reference. Incorrect, too, since BreezySwing is owned by another company.) [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2"> ツ cedave  (contributions☆buildpage)  15:32, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 * That reference went right over my head. but I still think that pvp version MR would work better than the Hbreeze, hypothetically. I just don't see this guy getting the energy for maintaining Hbreeze on both the monks and himself while hitting orders and BiP at the same time. but then again, lol I fail at the PvE's. ~ ʑʌɱʌɳəəɺɨɳɳ [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 00:57, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It has to do with understanding that this build, 99% of the time, is run along-side an MM, meaning lots of things are dying a lot of the time. Soul Reaping tends to do plenty. Though, yeah, HBreeze is a bit costly no matter what. MR'll stick, I'm sure. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2"> ツ cedave  (contributions☆buildpage)  22:49, 21 June 2008 (EDT)