Archive talk:A/D Fox's Promise Scythe

Discussion
saw this a few times in random matches (HoH, GvG hexgay) &mdash; Skakid  HoHoHo 13:58, 23 December 2007 (EST)
 * Admittedly, I thought this was gonna be for General PvE. Critical Agility somewhere. [[Image:Shogunshen_Holidaysig.jpg|20px]] Shen has cookies 14:09, 23 December 2007 (EST)
 * its like,.... owwww.. i saw it in AB it hurts like hell..--Shadowsin         14:11, 23 December 2007 (EST)
 * It's not though. &mdash; Skakid  HoHoHo 14:11, 23 December 2007 (EST)
 * it hits in the 100's with almost every hit, i was like ZOMG--Shad<font color="#330044">o<font color="#330055">w<font color="#330066">s<font color="#330077">i<font color="#330088">n          14:21, 23 December 2007 (EST)
 * has no survivability... would get dead in a few second for AB
 * I never said it was AB, and you can use a monk tbh &mdash; Skakid  HoHoHo 15:03, 23 December 2007 (EST)
 * Lol, Scythesins in GvG and HA. Can't wait to see this at work. Also, this could use some cripple/snare in variants, in case youre not paired with a cripshot or water Ele or whatever. Siphon Speed, Crippling Sweep, Aura of Thorns maybe? I guess instead of Critical Eye. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  15:10, 24 December 2007 (EST)
 * The only place this is rly used is in HA, where you always have a snare.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 17:49, 24 December 2007 (EST)
 * It's used in some GvG hexway matches I've seen (as a replacement for one of the mels) &mdash; Skakid  HoHoHo 17:59, 24 December 2007 (EST)
 * Okay, and it's in variants now in case of GvG. Neat. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  07:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

I'm speaking from a lack of experience in HA or GvG, but wouldn't it be better to replace Critical Eye? All you need is 1 point from Critical Strikes and 2 from Scythe Mastery to get Wind Prayers at 10. With this, you could have a 11 second Whirling Charge or a 15 second Signet of Mystic Speed.--Vaidin 22:32, 25 December 2007 (EST)
 * Taking anything from scythe mastery kills your DPS &mdash; Skakid  HoHoHo 22:38, 25 December 2007 (EST)

Crippling Sweep? Instead of.. umm Critical Eye. cKowDont 10:10, 26 December 2007 (EST)

Just wondering, what is the crit chance for this build? LavaEdge324 00:39, 27 December 2007 (EST)
 * About 70% me think Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 00:42, 27 December 2007 (EST)
 * 71% on number.-- [[Image:Caspian sig.jpg]]<font color="Red">Caspian 20:53, 6 January 2008 (EST)


 * This was run in the last monthly by er...whatever the #2 Was, vZ or something, or was it Rawr? Dunno, whatever the case, it pwned, and they ran Siphon Speed and Rending Sweep instead of Critical Eye and Eremites. However, for general purposes I think this bar would be better. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hikari (contribs).

lolol this build is insane. in HA the ele caught 2 eles and a monk in meteor and i dished out about 300 damage to each in 3 seconds. and of course, the paragon had just up defensive anthem =) christmas doesnt warrant stupid sigs, people 16:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Dark in HA. &mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 16:53, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * he speaks truth.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] christmas doesnt warrant stupid sigs, people 17:05, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * i have r1 too, yay. btw it owns PvE too. [[Image:User_Ckow_Sig.PNG|20px]] cKowDont 17:24, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * like 65 or something to go and im rank 4! hurrah! Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 17:26, 28 December 2007 (EST)

This is really strong indeed, but lacks snares/interrupts/speedbuff, this is why i prefer a D/A, but if you got enought of the before mentioned in your team, this is a good choice. Watch me work it 10:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

Question maybe I'm playing this wrong but, I can't seem to get over 100 dmg I usually get around in the 20's for dmg why is this? --Ninja Dragon 20:29, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * ...Are you using a scythe? --71.229.204.25 20:30, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * No I'm using a pickle...... Yes of course I'm using a scythe...... --Ninja Dragon 20:33, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * And you're maintaining all your enchants, and spamming your attacks as often as possible? --71.229.204.25 20:33, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yes....... --Ninja Dragon 20:36, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Then there's no reason you should be hitting for twenty most of the time. You should have about a 50% chance to crit, and a crit should net you about a hundred damage with one of the 3/4sec attacks. --71.229.204.25 20:51, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * I use them all and the max I get is like 76 dmg I'm using drok's scythe and Budahal's grasp, but still only a max of 76 dmg...... --75.73.203.96 22:41, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Are the scythes customized? --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 23:18, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Budahal's Grasp is --Ninja Dragon 18:16, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Did you have 0 scythe mastery?-24.16.45.133 22:48, 24 February 2008 (EST)
 * Uh, it says 12. FiveAcez 09:16, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

It clearly does a lot of damage, but this looks like it can be taken down way too easily. There are too many counters to make this effective. Because mesmers and necros have a plethora of anti-melee and enchantment removal skills at their disposal, they will have a field day with this.FiveAcez 10:37, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

team arenas
works extremely well..add a tag for it? -Karmapolice 00:53, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * This build is teh rape everywhere but HB, farming and running so far...Should we add? Also I dont see why a hero couldn't run this with some micro management. Going to test it soon to see how they use it. But I really think this should be put into RA, TA and PvE General.--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 19:20, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * Tested it with Zenmai. She fucking raped stuff. They use it perfectly. They keep the enchantments up always and spammed attacks. Anytime Assassin's Remedy came off she put it on. She also kept up Fox's on recharge and didn't spam WoTM when it recharged, only when it came off. Overall this is perfect for heros, I think it should be added.  --[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 19:24, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * Added TA, general and hero tags. I didn't add AB, CM and RA because of lack of self-heal / speed boost. (oh, edit conflict there.. added TA then) [[Image:User_Ckow_Sig.PNG|20px]] cKowDont 20:46, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * i've been looking for an excuseto get my sin a scythe and nnow i have found one @_@ i r love pvx wiki! <font color="BLACK">Iwan13  talk  20:53, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * Take Dash and call it AB/CM too? Just stick in in variants.--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 01:01, 30 December 2007 (EST)

counters
enchantment removal is a BIG one. especially fox's and remedy. rend enchantments makes this build completely useless. -Karmapolice 01:24, 30 December 2007 (EST)
 * I'm pretty sure you can still attack shit with enchantments gone.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ƿıę [[Image:Grinshpon animooted pie.gif|21px]] 01:32, 30 December 2007 (EST)
 * i like pie Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 01:38, 30 December 2007 (EST)
 * u can still autoattack in the hundreds...&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 03:47, 30 December 2007 (EST)

invented by:
deerpark. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.10.145.41 (contribs).
 * i dont care Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 23:46, 3 January 2008 (EST)
 * ffs, noone "invents" anything in a game with millions accounts. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 01:32, 4 January 2008 (EST)
 * was actually [Gozu] i think.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 15:50, 4 January 2008 (EST)
 * Who gives a shit? Lord Belar 15:51, 4 January 2008 (EST)
 * NO IT WAS ME I POSTED ON WIKI LOLOLOLOL &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  15:53, 4 January 2008 (EST)
 * get on GW some moar imo u copyguy Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 05:24, 7 January 2008 (EST)
 * No really, it was Deer Park Sins, and he has been running it for 3 months, me. I just thought that it should be noted somewhere, and ignorant low ranks could stop claiming it was theirs.
 * epic fail. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 22:40, 7 January 2008 (EST)
 * GoZu used this in their spike builds, anyway, taking charge of inventing this by just randomly commenting is gay, rly. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  11:20, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * see it was gozu.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 18:26, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * I heard that a guy named Lego invented Legoway. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:35, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * What really? Thats really why it's called that?--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 16:11, 12 January 2008 (EST)

...the build premise has been around forever. The introduction of WotM made it viable. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  23:45, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * Also, SpNv and lrn2sarcasm &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  23:46, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * so if my name is shit, and i make a HA teambuild, would it be called shitway? 81.206.79.118 15:50, 8 March 2008 (EST)
 * If you were popular, yes. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  15:51, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Missing Something:
It might just be me being a noob, but why do I never see Malicious Strike in these scythesin builds, it's got nice bonus damage and you meet the criteria anyway Draco Angelus 12:24, 14 January 2008 (EST)
 * this is a spike build, and Malicious Strike is slow with no IAS Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 12:32, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Throw in Pious Assault now, instead of Wearying Strike: gives dw, 1/2 sec attack, no weakness; use some kind of cover enchant when using it?- &#91;&#91;User:Jak123X&#124;&lt;font color=red&gt;&#39;&#39;&#39;Jak123X&#39;&#39;&#39;&lt;/font&gt;]]]] 22:36, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * Pious Assault removes an enchantment. Removing enchants on this build is bad. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  23:41, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * The buff hardly changed anything. Fast activation attacks are used to finish off a spike.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  23:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * Chilling + Pious + Mystic/Eremites is good combo, just not in this bar. The 12's recharge is too long. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  12:17, 29 January 2008 (EST)

I don't get why scythe ppl don't use victorious sweep instead of mystic sweep or ermite's attack. Victorious sweep does a consistent +29dmg while mystic/ermite's have a max of 30. Mystic sweep is easy to get max dmg but if an enchant is removed then its down to 20. Ermite's attack is inconsistent because you aren't always going to be adjacent to 3 other people. Victorious sweep also has the bonus of gaining health under certain conditions (forgot what it was) and it has the same recharge as mystic and ermite's. Panda Man 00:20, 28 February 2008 (EST)
 * Damage compression. That +29 damage is pretty insignificant when you can chain Mystic and Eremite's in the same timeframe for about 230 damage if they both crit. --71.229 00:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)

HB Variant
Most HB players run this variant:

Seperate article or major variant? Luuck 05:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)


 * Separate I don't see much resemblance in how you play it, too major imo. God  box   07:42, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Due to nerf
Crippling Sweep instead of siphon? ¤ <font face="gothic" color="green">Abada <font face="gothic" color="maroon">badoo ¤ 19:35, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Nothing can come close to Siphon, rly. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:37, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * I'd just throw Dash on instead. --71.229 19:44, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Enchanted haste maybe. Zyke 23:29, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Crippling Sweep does sounds decent, especially for this build type relying on enchantments.
 * I would say Crippling is fairly bad as you need to catch up with the player and they can just kite you for a while then. Dash is better, even if not close to as good. God  box   15:21, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Without Siphon's previous awesomeness, this build is very meh. Archiving it. Zuranthium 17:58, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * This is still run. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  18:00, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * So are Touch Rangers. Zuranthium 18:05, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * By top HA guilds (lol). &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  18:11, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Unarchive this IMO. Dash or Crippling in the main bar. This still definitely works.--[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  18:14, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * ^. It's not Great material anymore, but it's still damn good. --71.229 18:28, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah. Siphon nerf sucks, but I think we could overcome it with Crippling or Dash. TBH, this is too good for archive. Worse comes to worse, it still works in PvE. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  18:40, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Archive Or no then?

Support Archive:

Oppose Archive:
 * 1) --[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  20:45, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * 2) If we work hard enough, we can make it viable enough for PvP play. Still good for PvE play as well. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  20:46, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * 3) --71.229 21:29, 10 March 2008 (EDT)


 * I'll just remove the GvG tag and let you all re-vote. Zuranthium 15:51, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Ummm, yeah, so...it turns out that the Siphon nerf didn't matter. This has found a place in an extremely retarded caster spike build that is popping up all over. Zuranthium 16:39, 16 March 2008 (EDT)
 * It's run with Shadow Walk in place of Eremites, keep res sig imo. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:48, 16 March 2008 (EDT)
 * That's one of the ways of doing it, yes. Already in variants Zuranthium 16:56, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Hero usage
This used to have a hero tag but it was removed by Zuranthium on March 10th, with no discussion as far as I can tell. I restored the appropriate pre-archive tags (based on the assumption that it was splash damage related to the archiving and de-archiving of the build due controversy related to the Siphon Speed nerf). Any thoughts on a variant specifically for PvE heroes? In particular, I'm looling for a substitute for Dash. My heroes don't seem to benefit much from faster movement, particularly when following a player without a speed-boost. I noticed that an AB tag was added to this build during the (de)archiving. Is this as it should be? --War Pig5 00:23, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, I didn't mean to remove any tags. Oops. Zuranthium 14:10, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


 * LOL this build works EVERYWHERE IN GUILD WARS now.--[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  14:13, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * seems like that yes... quite pathetic actually. God  box   14:22, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * IMO, this is a great running build... --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  20:05, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I love using this for farming in UW too, and don't forget that this is pretty much a team on it's own. God  box   10:46, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

You could probably take out dash and shadow walk for critical agility (saw in variants) and critical defense and farm with it just like the A/D mobieous does. (Mr Pink57 18:56, 19 March 2008 (EDT))
 * But how should we make it into a running build too? And it's obviously needs to be a team build! God  box   12:40, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

20/3/08 update
RIP. Jamster 16:45, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Fox's Promise, I shall miss the. I don't quite understand the nerf, though. Why would we want an Elite to make our dagger attacks unblockable when we could just use Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike (and Shattering Assault/Nine Tail Strike) or Rigor Mortis/Expose Defenses. Well, I guess this means a little more light for the Avatar of Grenth Dervishes, but because of Critical Strikes, I think Sins use scythes better than Dervishes do. XD -Mike 17:07, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * That was a truly lame nerf. God  box   17:10, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, Dark Apostasy and Irresistible Sweep could get through most blocking enchantments, but there's nothing to cancel stances with (too bad Wild Blow is a Warrior skill XD) -Mike 17:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm gonna go sit in a dark corner for a while. --71.229 17:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't forget your razor! --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  17:42, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * ZOMJ VIRAL MARKETING --71.229 17:43, 20 March 2008 (EDT) but seriously, this update makes me really emo.

OMG I'm so sad...I loved this build...anyone else have a variant that is still viable and uses the same idea? :( Panda Man 18:50, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * [LanD] are running this with way of the assassin. Lord of all tyria 18:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Way of the Assassin and Way of the Master are unnecessary, and Way of the Master is just better with non-dagger weapons. And, Panda Man, you could try the Dark Apostasy and Irresistible Sweep combination I just mentioned. It won't work the same, but it could be the closest thing we've got to Fox's Promise. -Mike 19:04, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

I vote this
the best gimmick build ever.-- <font color="Black">aesthetic

Planning on making this one.
I remember the Critical Spear Disenchanter, knew someone would post this.--Relyk 01:12, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * History page. Used to be the Fox's Promise scythe. This was used a bit in HA before Fox's Promise nerf, but now it's the only way it's viable anywhere, so ska changed it. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 03:07, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

DA
needs critical eye.-- <font color="Black">aesthetic
 * [[image:Headbutt.jpg]] - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  07:22, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Where is the "beat the dead horse" skill? God  box   08:00, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Rofl what a total waste of my 3k balth.
This is a horrible build and is 'inferior' as you all say to other sin builds out there. Dervishes do a much better and faster spike in the way of things, Wounding Strike Spiker anyone? Not to mention the miserably bad elite which literally drains all your energy within two seconds of spiking regardless of energy gaining. Here's a tip, to make this lump of dirt build rise from the pits of hell where it belongs, try telling people to have radiant insigs, runes of attunement and a zealous scythe equipt, always! TedTheFarmer 17:39, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * The thing about attacking, is that Sins can usually do it better due to Critical Strikes. The might lose out on defense, occasionally, but they've got the energy management and extra damage from Critical Strikes. I agree that the worth of Dark Apostasy is questionable. I wouldn't take Dark Apostasy in something like AB, because enchantment removal isn't the main priority. -Mike 17:43, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Wounding Strike Spiker isn't for Assassins. This is run by top guilds and has spam enchantment removal, which is the closest thing to Fox's Promise (remove Guardian/Aegis = buh-bye blocking). Assassin's have CRITICAL STRIKES. This magical thing gives you ENOUGH ENERGY BACK TO OVERCOME THE ENERGY LOST BY DARK APOSTAPY! Seriously, dude, lrn2play (to Ted, not Mike). --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  17:46, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * The only problem with Dark Apostasy replacing Fox's Promise is that you'll probably need an unblockable attack to get past blocking enchantments, and our choices are very limited (Irresistible Sweep is meh). It's either Irresistible Sweep or just auto-attacking until they stop blocking. XD I still don't quite understand the nerf; maybe Fox's Promise was overpowered with a scythe, but why take Fox's Promise over Shattering Assault when you use daggers? -Mike 17:51, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Most Monks rely on Guardian for blocking. Chances are atleast 1 Critical will go through and remove it. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  17:53, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Fox's Promise Nerf
what nerf? It's always been the same.-- Fire Tock  10:26, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It only effects daggers now.--[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  13:04, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Firetock you dirty dog! [[Image:mightymouse.gif|25px]] moush 06:04, 21 May 2008 (EDT)