Archive talk:R/W Pew Pew Ranger

Discussion
I'm loving the Sundering + Penetrating Attack buffs. A couple other Ranger builds are being tested here on PvX using those skills, but I feel this version is definitely the best. Zuranthium 21:21, 7 February 2008 (EST)

I like these DPS rangers too, but the raw damage gets countered too easily and too often in the arenas imo. Things like PS and SB kill the damage and a common hex like Faintheartedness diminishes your DPS. Also for TA, I'd rather take a generic MB ranger because of the condition spread, reliable interrupts, and utility. ▪  √ēт   [no :D u]  21:31, 7 February 2008 (EST)
 * You could say the same thing about any Physical build. Yes, there are lots of counters. I've found the damage to be very rewarding, though. Being able to constantly throw bursts of damage around at a range means you can switch targets and avoid prot way easier than a Warrior. And, compared to a regular physical in RA, you have really great interrupts to shutdown Guardian, Hexes, WoH, and such. I'd say Magebane is better for most TA builds but I got over 20 wins in TA last night using this build in a BYOB team (the other party members were Hammer War, Axe War, Monk). This Ranger definitely has its merits. Zuranthium 00:17, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * Play a paragon if you want you to ignore prots and do ranged damage, play BA/Magebane if you want a ranger in RA, tbh. Dark0805  ( Rant / Contributions ) 17:05, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * Lol@DPS in RA. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (T/C/Sysop) 17:13, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * Paragons don't get D-Shot and Savage Shot. Even if you believe certain other Ranger builds are better, PvX isn't just a listing of the top 1%. This is a viable Ranger build to run and it has a play-style that many people will enjoy. (not sure what you mean, frvwfr2...explain more) Zuranthium 18:43, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * Death pact signet is lol. Dark0805 ( Rant / Contributions ) 22:19, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * It's SOOO hilarious in RA! (but can actually be better than Rez Sig with skill and a bit of luck). And in TA, you usually want a copy of Death Pact if you can fit it. Zuranthium 23:51, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * Death pact wins all around. It owns in RA where quick resses really can change the battle. Getting your monk/rit/bsurge/whatever quickly really helps, and in ra people are too stupid to notice you used it and he's been ressed.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 16:00, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * And in ra, anyone who is half decent and will kill that target again will make you wiped(lol half of your party just died). - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  18:37, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Lies, this is the real Machine Gun Ranger. =P 71.198.139.35 21:49, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

lies, this is the real real machine gun ranger. =p , oh and while im here, why would you have flail AND lightning reflexes? drop lightning reflexes for whirling IMO--203.33.133.31 02:49, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Rapta
EDIT 2: Read: DPS vs Poisoning

Elaborate. -Shen 16:01, 9 February 2008 (EST)


 * Compare the effectiveness of DPS versus Poison. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:01, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * No, you compare the effectiveness. I don't remove votes without detailing the flaws in logic, nor do you re-vote without making it clear. -Shen 16:04, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * No, you don't remove votes by placing a completely generic and unacceptable scenario as a reason. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:04, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * (ec)And it's specifically implied in my rating in comparison between high DPS and Poison spread in an arena where it's more important to kill the actual target. AKA high DPS is as effective as generic poison spread. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:06, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * You don't wish to elaborate, and you expect it to suffice. -Shen 16:05, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * You're suddenly an expert on what "I wish"? I expect you to know the advantages of DPS versus generic poison spread in a place where killing the target quickly is important. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:07, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Judging from the direction this is going, maybe I am expecting too much from you after all. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:14, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * (EC)I don't know when I ever mentioned poison spread in my removal of your vote. I said cripshot fails in arenas, MB doesn't produce DPS of this caliber, and BA is the only comparable one. You didn't address what I said about your 4 people to a man argument. -Shen 16:14, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * You specifically placed the generic utility ranger in comparison to this one, and followed it with a statement regarding poison spread being better than general DPS. Specifically, what you're saying right now is contradictory (albiet indirectly) of your own vote.
 * Care to elaborate? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:17, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * You placed the generic bar in comparison. What my vote has to do with this is lost to me. We are talking about why I removed yours. -Shen 16:18, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * We're talking about the subject of DPS vs poison spread. In which regards, I stated one is as effective as the other (which you based your vote off of, but then removed my vote with a reason contradicting that). Explain yourself. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:19, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * I based my removal of your vote on the fact you say cripshot works in arenas, and the fact you compare this to MB/BA, both of which I addressed. I never said DPS wasn't effective as a reason in removing removing your vote. -Shen 16:22, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * In fact, I never even make a comment as to BA with AP vs DPS ranger. My vote and yours have no relation. -Shen 16:23, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * (ec)And I stated that the comparison was drawn between the subject of the utility ranger bar, consisting of poison spread, interrupts, and the like, and the subject of having actual Damage output. You state that poison spread is superior to DPS, give it a 2.9, and then remove my own comment of the generic Ranger bar regarding poison spread, saying utility bars are ineffective. Again, for the third time, explain. And I stated clearly "the generic BA/Cripshot/Magebane in RA". If the statement was as blunt as "this works as good as Cripshot rangers", then maybe you'd have a case, but in this case you do not. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:28, 9 February 2008 (EST)

(RI)Your entire argument is based on a fundamental difference in perspective, or perhaps a monumental misunderstanding on my part. It took me way to long to figure this out. So I'm gonna rattle off some stuff, and you tell me if I'm right on track. You say generic BA/Cripshot/MB, grouping these elites with their respective parts, those being, Apply Poison, NS, and Troll. And with this in mind, it is ludicrous I remove your vote on the basis that AP isn't as effective, because AP, at least for you, is a huge part of Cripshot/BA/MB. Therefore, I can completely sympathize with you saying I contradict myself. However, when I read your vote, I see only the elite standing out, as in, the use for it in comparison with this DPS ranger. This is where we differ, and this is why I can see why my reason for removing your vote, based on such a difference in word perception, is not only contradictory, but completely irrelevant. Not to say one of us holds the better perspective, only that to this difference can our contention be attributed. So that established, we can move onto the second, less nebulous reason for my decision to remove your vote. You say NS, Troll, and M-Touch fail because 4 people usually swarm on one, and my rebuttal was that it actually is not usual at all, and that furthermore, when it does happen (it's not a rarity by any stretch of the imagination), it won't be the ranger that's targeted. -Shen 17:31, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * It's the Monumental Misunderstanding part. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:43, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * And by your own logic, if you're not targetted, you won't be needing the Mending Touch, Troll Unguent, and Natural Stride anyways. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:45, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * That's just silly, there will undoubtedly be scenario's (after a teammate dies, for instance) where a ranger will be targeted, and the extra buffer helps immensely in firing off a Rez. Plus, M-Touch works well for Daze/DW/condition stacks on other characters. -Shen 18:43, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Make up your mind... &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:45, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * The point I'm trying to make is your statement, the one regarding where four people are swarming one person, is wrong, because whether it is oneself or another, the three will still be beneficial. -Shen 18:46, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * In which case, having Natural, Troll, and MTouch won't be as effective. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:48, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Also, popping up LReflexes when you're the only one left is much more effective than popping up Natural Stride. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:50, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Assuming that one of your teammates need a rez, it's not going to be hard to assume at least one of your enemies has died. You can't assume that four people will all kill one of your teammates, then move onto the next without any casualties(I don't mean you, you). So then, it won't be 4 targets swarming on the ranger, which means Troll and Natural will prove effective because it won't be overwhelming pressure from the opposing team. -Shen 08:43, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * And now a skill is chosen because an enemy is "assumed" to have been killed? And if you're being pressured, Troll will do very little. Period. You're better off kiting. In GvG, Troll is used as a self-heal in-between archer kills. You don't Troll when you're being pressured. You run. There are significant and fundamental flaws in these theoretical scenarios you're putting forth both in this discussion and the discussion below, and that is not helping your case much. In a TA setting especially, a Ranger wouldn't take Troll Unguent. In arenas where hexes are plenty, Natural is less effective. Taking all three - Natural Stride, Troll, Mending, while they each have their individual uses, are not recommended all at once in arena use. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:34, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Mending is an arena stable, removing Daze from your monk > extra damage. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:40, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, Mending Touch is good. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:41, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Oh sorry, I misread. Everyone drops Troll for Purge, and people bring Nat to avoid dshots on Apply. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:42, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Want a cookie? =D &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:43, 10 February 2008 (EST)

(RI)You make valid points, but I think you don't understand what I'm getting at. Take your words verbatim.

[I]n RA, where it is usually 4 targets swarming one person on your team, Troll and Natural won't do much.

RA does not have usually have 4 people swarming one person. This scenario you put forth negates your argument because it's so hugely invalid.

Previously I took your statement as implying the ranger is targeted, and that therefore, with four people, some perhaps with hexing capabilities, Troll and NS just won't cut it. I don't deny such a thing can theoretically happen, only that it will not happen because Rangers, as opposed to Mesmers/Monks/Necros, aren't hot targets. I hope you agree with me here, because that's the only explanation for your rebuttal proposing the scenario where the ranger isn't targeted at all, and the "one" person you refer to, the one being swarmed, is actually the Mesmer/Monk/Necro. But you fail to see the concurrent value of both my main points. You construe my statement to mean that four people swarm other professions because rangers aren't targeted often; I'm saying that can be applied only in the instances when it does happen, which can hardly be termed a "usual" occurrence. In the instance a monk is available, that's one less. Taken singularly, the presence of a monk demands a reconsideration of the "4 people usually swarming one person" idea. Furthermore, since the "one person" you refer to might be any ally, profession bias and all, you say Troll and Natural won't do much because there's the chance you won't be targeted-another flaw in your argument. Assuming there will either be everyone after you or no one after you is insane, especially in the arenas. -Shen 12:47, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'd like to reinforce the notion we're returning to the original argument, because I concede, my scenario was terrible, I'm glad you could provide such a convincing argument as to why. -Shen 12:49, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * It's not assuming that there will be everyone after you or no one after you. If there's no one/one person after you, LR is all you really needed (unless it's a caster, in which case, NStride and Troll won't help you either). If there's the enemy team's entire offense on you, again, there's not much use for NStride and Troll, and Mending Touch is less effective there as well. In which case, pray for your monk to save you, or pray that your LReflexes blocks everything. If there's no one on you, all the better. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:16, 13 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm saying there won't be four people on a ranger, ever, unless everyone else is dead, in which case you lose regardless. Sins/warriors/dervs get stopped by natural stride. Natural Stride against rangers works very well. And assuming you're running the standard bar with two interrupts, casters should be your primary target. Eles attacking a ranger shouldn't be. Necros should definitely be a ranger's concern. So if you aren't saying there will be either no one or everyone on you, then it safe to say Troll and NS are effective. Though admittedly, I can sort of see your case when you factor in Troll's cast time. You can't interrupt a Necro's hex and block with NS if you're casting Troll. -<font color="Black">Shen 08:23, 15 February 2008 (EST)

I think Shen and Rapta need to get a room so that they can "discuss" things.

Shogunshen
I guess we all get to have our little arguments! His writings from the vote page:

"Poison spread wins arenas, and is much more of a threat given the not-unlikely event there's a monk on the other team."

While poison spread is good, I disagree that it is "much more of a threat". Quickly killing someone and then interrupting rez sigs pretty much owns. It's just different styles of play. You also said this when removing JenniferBelle's vote:

"No, spiking surprises healers, not a predictable, albeit high, raw DPS."

The DPS from this build actually comes FROM spiking. There's no Deep Wound, obviously, but Prepared + Sundering + Penetrating is a large chunk of damage, the skills recharge quickly, and it's harder to prot against than a melee character.

It seems like you don't understand how this build operates, TBH. Zuranthium 18:06, 9 February 2008 (EST)


 * Raw DPS vs Shock+Evisc if you want to spike down a monk. Not a hard choice. Sure the recharge is faster, but the 3 sec KD kills. A monk can certainly prevent this "quickly killing someone", but the same monk will have a lot more to handle with Poison spread. If there wasn't a monk, I'd totally agree with you. -<font color="Black">Shen 18:39, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * I never said anything about solo-spiking a Monk. It's just bursts of damage...being able to quickly snipe that low-health target who is out of range of the Monk. Or assisting on a spike with your Warrior - this Ranger is amazing at that. In any case, nobody is calling the build a 5/5/5 build. I'm pretty sure we're all aware that, on average, it isn't the absolute best Ranger out there. Zuranthium 18:52, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * I wholeheartedly agree with Zuranthium. This build is about being able to switch targets every 4 seconds so that a monk can't prot against it. They can't maintain guardian/PS on their whole team. Monks often overheal/prot the lowest hp target while you finish off the 2nd lowest. Anyway, Shen has removed every vote I've ever made.--JenniferBelle 02:01, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Your argument is riddled with fallacies. You say this build focuses on taking down individual targets, but it's supposedly also meant for changing targets every few seconds. It has nothing to do with sniping low-health targets out of range of the Monk, not to say such a scenario means anything. The only way you can say the packets of damage from this ranger "snipes", switching targets constantly to pick them off easily that is, (in itself a direct contradiction) is by assuming the damage is comparable to Axe adrenal spikes, where the primary threat comes from Evisc, and monks have to constantly keep up allies(including oneself, for fear of 3 second KD) at near full health. And somehow, I don't see this ranger with such a qualification. Firing off a few shots doesn't have the same effect as Shock Axe. In fact, the only way you refute my reason for removing the vote, and even then, indirectly, is correctly stating that this ranger is harder to prot against, simply because it can switch targets. Which, again, contradicts yourself, but the validity of the statement isn't diminished, only its worth in your argument. Because switching targets, dealing less than Axe-spiking damage, has little correlation with directly taking down targets, which is the gist of your argument. Honestly, make up your mind. -<font color="Black">Shen 14:53, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * "You say this build focuses on taking down individual targets". No, I didn't? Not at all. You blatantly made that up. Although, the build certainly CAN kill a single target far more quickly than a standard Ranger.


 * "Firing off a few shots doesn't have the same effect as Shock Axe." I never said that it did. The attacks are going to draw healing, though. If it doesn't, then the damaged opponent becomes an easy spike target.


 * "It has nothing to do with sniping low-health targets out of range of the Monk." Not sure what you mean. All I said was that this build can quickly kill out of position opponents who are at low health. Which is a fact. Zuranthium 17:32, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * I must've made that up. Got confused with above, sorry for the accusation. -<font color="Black">Shen 12:55, 12 February 2008 (EST)

For actual DPS result
Drop savage, go R/A and bring Augury. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:46, 9 February 2008 (EST)

If the weapon section is going to be that detailed, shouldn't we include an elemental bowstring for taking out overzealous warriors?--JenniferBelle 02:14, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * I don't have an Elemental Bow in the weapon sets because the +30 energy set is way too awesome with Death Pact Signet. Zuranthium 11:49, 10 February 2008 (EST)


 * You have an inventory, you know. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:33, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, but you only want to give the necessary equipment. I have like 10 shields in my inventory for lots of characters but I'm not going to list of all that...Zuranthium 23:27, 10 February 2008 (EST)

R/Mo
Mending Touch > Arenas, it's a ranger staple, and you've barely got the energy to use Savage anyway (once you get low, its Prep->pene->sunder, dshot here and there, wait, repeat) &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  11:44, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Wow, NO. Savage Shot is a key skill. You don't just spam pene + sundering on recharge 100% of the time. You have to adapt to the situation and those interrupts are extremely important. Zuranthium 11:49, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * So, what are you getting rid of in a TA build to take this? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  11:50, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * And if you're not spamming on charge to do DPS, why don't you just bring a warrior to get better DPS? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  11:51, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm pretty sure Warriors don't have D-shot and Savage Shot. The interrupting aspect of the character is really important. This isn't a 100% DPS character, absolutely not. It simply has great DPS for a RANGER. Change the title of the character back immediately. "Penetrating Shot Spammer"????? Not only lame, but it also shows your misunderstanding of the build. R/Rt Sundering Hunter. Zuranthium 11:55, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Energy problems? This can be run this with conc shot and not have energy problems (of course, it can't spam conc shot).
 * Ye, but it needs to spam to be close to par with warriors on DPS (the advantage being that it's ranged). &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  13:09, 10 February 2008 (EST)

lol wut &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  12:00, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * You poor child. *shakes head* Zuranthium 12:03, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * I heard dR runs DShot monks. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:40, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * D-shot would be better on a Monk than a Warrior. They have better view of the field and can afford to sit in a Bow set more often. Nice joke, though. ;) Zuranthium 20:48, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * I suppose you mean; monk is basicly the only characther that can affort it's secondary to go joke except for a warrior, but with a warrior it's impossible since you miss like 3 hits when you weaponswitch. Monks don't need secondaries, anything else in the game(except for wammo's) do. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  18:41, 16 February 2008 (EST)
 * I've seen people run D-Shot Monks in GvG. Not many, but atleast I've seen some. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  10:25, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, tommy owns. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  04:46, 28 February 2008 (EST)
 * You pansy. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  23:23, 25 February 2008 (EST)

I just noticed...how do you get +60 health on the shield+spear set and have a +5 armor mod on the spear at the same time? 76.89.81.150 22:59, 25 February 2008 (EST)
 * Different spears? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:14, 25 February 2008 (EST)

If you're missing attacks on warrior between weapon swaps, you're not doing it right. You have to cancel-swap. Pluto 02:24, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

god this is so fail
What the fuck are you even thinking? Straight dps went out with factions tbh. Since when has it ever been acceptable to have 5 attacks on a bar, no dw, kd, or < 650 base damage, on a spike? When has it EVER been fucking acceptable to bring a ranger with out fucking poison, or speed buff, or condition removal. Are you trying to tell me this is surprising? HA any monk with half a brain can heal through this garbage, it offers no pressure for them AT ALL! wait till health is below 50% WoH ZB, or just patient spirit them to bloody hell. If the target of this build is to strike "Unsuspecting" or "Unprepared" Players than you might as well tag it Noob hunter for scrubs. I heard PS/SB was good? Not to mention using one interrupts throws off your delicate balance of energy. Heres a little tid bit from Cedave. "Cedave just wants you guys to go look in the archives, grab a monk that has half a head on him, and stop following the fuckpug trends that spawn out of lack of intelligence to creatively multi-spec." ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ  03:10, 2 March 2008 (EST)

user:Fox007, creator of, was kind enough to compare the damage to that of a Me/E Flare Spammer (from here if you're interested). These were his results:

Flare spam was 43 DPS with 1 skill used. Prepared Ranger was 45 DPS with 5 skills. If something compares unfavorably to a build using one skill, especially if that one skill is flare, then that build should be deleted. - <font color="#000080">(nō'vĭk dăn tĕt') [snō hwīt tăn]  04:44, 2 March 2008 (EST)


 * I used Flare. Meteor, FireBall, Fire attutement and Mind Blast. >.> --Fox007 04:55, 2 March 2008 (EST)

That's all. <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  05:15, 2 March 2008 (EST)
 * On a similar note, I should've mentioned earlier, I'll be gone for a while after tonight. Shadowsin just happened to guide me here tonight. Sorry if I confused anyone with my sudden flurry of contribs. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2">cedave <small color="#AA226D">(contributions_buildpage)  05:17, 2 March 2008 (EST)
 * It would have been so much better if you would have simply stayed on GuildWiki. You are constantly spouting off mis-information. Zuranthium 18:09, 6 March 2008 (EST)

I find it hilarious that people test builds on the Master of Damage. It really shows how much knowledge they have of the game. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 20:22, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Hey, the person made a dps ranger. How much intelligence were you actually expecting? <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 20:24, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Hey, he at least added Dshot! God  box   14:45, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Hunter's
Is the loss of the raw damage worth the bleeding? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  18:48, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * It's more about the lower energy cost than the bleeding. I tested for an hour and like it slightly more, I think. Not a big deal either way, though. Zuranthium 20:47, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * If you have Prep Shot, energy isn't a huge issue. I perfer Penetrating > Sloth's. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  11:18, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Its still an energy monster. I prefer hunters. Rawrawr  11:25, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I've run it w/o Hunters and as long as you use Prep Shot whenever it recharges, energy isn't a huge issue. Worse comes to worse, a Zealous bow takes an edge off the energy. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  11:27, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * If you use every attack skill on charge, the energy hurtssss Rawrawr  11:28, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I haven't had any huge issues with it myself. Worse comes to worse (again), slap Radiants on chest and legs for 30 energy. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  11:39, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

more energy =/= management. Rawrawr 11:43, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, but it does help a little. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  11:48, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

I run sun/pene cause I like to nigger spam. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  12:07, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Please refrain from using that word. I was forced to eat spam when I was a child and do not wish to relive those horrors. Moush 18:51, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
 * What about nigga, nigs, nig figs, fig nigs, nigglings, nig nig, les nigs, niggles, or slappyjacks? --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  18:53, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

GvG Version?
Best Before ran this with Penetrating Attack and Flail, works better than this does, use in RA all the time, does far more dps than this. Craziinick 15:25, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I've noticed and added it to variants. Yeah, that version is more DPS, but it's not necessarily better. Interrupting skills is often what does the most "damage". Zuranthium 22:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Although, I just noticed someone else tried to put that version into testing phase, so I'll put Flail main build here (Death Pact was nerfed anyway) over one of the interrupts so we don't have both sitting around. Zuranthium 22:17, 10 March 2008

Delete
Shouldn't this be deleted or WELLed because it is exactly the same as R/W Turret DPS with the change of one skill, with that one skill in its variant section...--Manbeast15 22:54, 10 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Apparently that got WELLed instead because it was poorly written and this was already vetted under slightly different secondary stuff. I removed notes about Death Pact Signet, spears with too many mods, and references to Hunter's Shot. I also removed part of the patronizing remark about being a "RANGER".--JenniferBelle 00:23, 11 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Though I notice that Shogunshen's vote got removed in part b/c hunter's shot was supposed to fix some of the energy issues (btw, I just say bring a zealous flatbow) but if that's the case, was hunter's shot supposed to be main bar instead of either SA or PA? If it was, I'd argue that you lose a lot of damage due the 5 sec recharge instead of 3 sec. --JenniferBelle 00:29, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
 * The other version had Savage Shot main bar. Penetrating can be taken over Hunter's now with Flail here over Savage. Zuranthium 01:26, 11 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Anyone for changing the name to Turret Ranger to be consistant to whats it is referred to in game? Aznhalf 11:20, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
 * The RPG name is cute. Flail (the reason for this being called a Turret) isn't one of the true core skills to the build anyway. This character's bar varies a lot. Zuranthium 19:22, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

When did this become "great"?
Seems the build has been around for awhile but was considered pretty fail. Now it's rated great. I've seen this being used a lot in RA the past week or so, before it was vetted great, and I'm just curious what changed to suddenly propel this into "greatness" and wide usage. It's pretty annoying, and I am a fan of more traditional ranger bars over this, but I do like seeing a ranger build that uses read the wind and some other non-meta ranger skills. Zephyr Cloud 00:13, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * People realized they were wrong. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:23, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * During the course of this talk page, I've seen a lot of changing, in the way you feel about sundering hunter, and in the way I feel sundering hunter. In here, there were two guys killing each other, but I guess that's better than twenty million. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change! (By the way, that's a quote... most of it lol) Zephyr Cloud 06:50, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * A build can't be great until Windforce runs it.  Then all of the sudden its godly pewpewpew to the max.Aznhalf 11:17, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * This has always been great in RA (since the Sundering/Penetrating buffs anyway). It became better for GvG because the format has changed so that pressure is strong again. Zuranthium 14:18, 12 March 2008 (EDT)


 * In addition to the build being revised, its appearance in GvG, and hunter's shot adding to the energy management options, many votes from the old vetting have been removed. Note that only 2 votes from before March 5th remain. Also note that every vote remaining is over 4.5 and every vote removed was below 4.1, no matter when they occurred.--JenniferBelle 19:34, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Feel the magic. --71.229 19:35, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Feel teh wub! Sometimes the PvX Community got some problems with deciding if a build is good or not, resulting in very different results; especially those two AoB builds: one great, one trashed, one skill differed and the it was mentioned in variants. God  box   03:36, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

rename pwease
Nobody calls it "sundering hunter," use one of the common nicknames. - Auron 05:31, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Scottie's thrown up a common name redirect of "Turret". "Turret Ranger" ok with you as a new name? - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  05:35, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Some people call it Machine Gun. Some people call it Turret. Some people call it Pew Pew Pew Ranger. Some people call it Damage Spam Ranger. Some people call it an Archer. I rather like this RPG name. At worst, people will be like "WTF is that" and want to click on the build link. ;) Zuranthium 05:43, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm gonna move it to PewPewPew Ranger ;) I guess if we leave it with the Turret redirect people will find it. At the worst they just have to search for Prepared Shot. - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  05:53, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * This really doesn't appear on the prepared shot search list, it's like most of the way down the page (if it shows up at all). I'll just make mainspace redirects if we want to keep this name then. - Auron 05:57, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Oops. underestimated the number of builds with Prep Shot. I suppose the fact it's missing it in the title doesn't help. Would "Prepared Sundering Hunter" be better perhaps? - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  06:08, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * No. - Auron 06:15, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I call it sundering hunter. 122.104.160.66 12:34, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm happy for you. As soon as I see people in HA id1 seriously asking for "sundering hunters," then maybe I'll think this is the actual name. Until then, people will keep asking for turrent/machine gun rangers. - Auron 21:29, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * The most obvious naming changes would be to switch to something gimmicky like "Machine Gun Ranger" like we've done with "Bunny Thumper" builds, "Legoway" builds, "Blindbots", etc...
 * Another approach would be something generic like "Prepared Shot Attack Spam". &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:33, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

nigger ranger &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  23:34, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Who could have guessed you're a racist, but there you are. Amy Awien 15:45, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * On the internet, rascist insults are thrown about all the time. It just happens. Lord of all tyria 15:57, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Doesn't make it right in any way. If you use these terms, or condone them, you're a racist. Amy Awien 16:05, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Saying (in this case, typing) the word "nigger" and being a racist are two different things. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:11, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * IRON MY SHIRT &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.198.20.92 (contribs) 16:14, 15 March 2008.
 * Its quite clear that black people who refer to each other as nigger are rascist, against their own colour. Nice reasoning. Lord of all tyria 16:29, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I suggest you use the term on the street then, lets see how long you survive. They can use that term for themselves, we, you and I can't.
 * And you can't seriously suggest to continue using (racially) offensive words? Shall we start to insult each other, everyone and their brother? Where do you think that would lead? Amy Awien 16:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Its quite clear that people who consider a word racist lack brains. actions are racist. nigger is derived from the latin for black and is a black people word. the word negro is more insulting than nigger, thats what the white people referred to them as.
 * Writing is an action. Besides, racist does not refer to an action. Go back to school and learn something, if you can. And sign your comments. Amy Awien 16:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * It's quite clear that while any of you may be right this can be discusses somewhere else rather than this build talk page. God  box   16:47, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Writing is an action in the same sense lynching is an action? you know what i meant and piddling through a grammer misuse is so classicly fail. dont fear words, fear the people who take them seriously.151.198.20.92 16:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Flamefest. Could you two please stop flaming eachother on a builds talk page. If you want to discuss something could you do it on someones talk page and please keep it mature, screaming insults or silently inquiring that the other person is a idiot is just stupid and immature. God  box   17:23, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Words like Nigger are common on the internet. If you think those words are racist, you are wrong. End of story.
 * I actually do have quite a rebuttal of your argument, but here would be the wrong place to post it. If you still think that anyone who says "nigger" hates blacks and is willing to burn crosses IRL, post on my talk page and let's have a chat :)
 * In that vein, please leave social commentary off build talk pages. You aren't going to change anyone's lives here, nor make them atone for their... uh... "crimes" against black people. If you dislike them saying words that are offensive to you, you can either A. discuss it with them on their talk page, B. grow thicker skin, or C. get off the intarwebs. If you choose A, be sure not to ignore the logic that refutes your entire argument and then some. - Auron 01:29, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

In other news, the new name rocks. - <font color="#000080">(ză'rē'năs thĕ shăd'ō) [snō hwīt tăn]  05:32, 16 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Indeed it does, SWT, indeed it does. In fact, I've voted accordingly. Rusty 06:34, 16 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Wasn't the machine gun ranger the Quickshot build? 122.104.160.66 12:28, 16 March 2008 (EDT)
 * (To Rusty) Yeah, and look what happened to your vote. - <font color="#000080">(ăl zâr'ăs thĕ rē'pər) [[Image:Dervish-icon-small.png]] [snō hwīt tăn] 08:20, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

The name
Is blantently wrong. It should be "Pewpewpew Ranger". Get it right! -- Guild of  Deals  13:24, 16 March 2008 (EDT)


 * So much talk over a build name, jebus. Zuranthium 16:32, 16 March 2008 (EDT)
 * The build is too good to be criticized in build qualities. We need to debate something on why this build is bad. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  16:39, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm with Skakid on this tbh. --71.229.204.25 08:01, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

/agree³ - PANIC!    pewpewpew!  08:06, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

pewpewpew ranger lol. Frans  08:38, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
 * "This build, or variants thereof, is commonly referred to as a Turret Ranger or Machine Gun Ranger." Oh, okay. I'm going to change shock axe to "lol spike War," or maybe "Frenzy Theory" (on account of supporting nostalgia), but it'll all be okay because I'll say it's commonly called a shock axe. Pluto 06:03, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * There's really no shared name for this build, though. I've heard it called Pew Pew Pew Ranger, Turret, and Machine Gun pretty evenly. Zuranthium 14:05, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * If we used the actual common name we'd get flaming QQs until we changed it. - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  06:08, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * "R/W That fucking faggot-ass queero simpleminded cocksucker who doesn't have the skill or the balls to play a real goddamn ranger"? --71.229 06:17, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah that one. But people just normally shorten it to Nigger Spam(mer) - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  06:23, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Fixed that for you. --71.229 06:24, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd rather get flamed for writing nigger than have a mild NPA against my sig ;) - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  06:27, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Fine. Be a nigger. D:< --71.229 06:28, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

who gives a shit? call it Attack Spammer if you're gonna be a fag about it &mdash;  Skakid  16:30, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
 * NO! PEWPEWPEW SPAMMER!!! --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  16:32, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Screech! BCZ TEH ANIMATION SOUND IT MAEKS <B>zOMG</B> -74.61.209.219

If anyone changes this name, I will kill you!--Relyk 21:41, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

rofl, this build is so fun to face in RA. gets the target to about 30% health, then the spikes over, nice WoH on him and its like it never happened... Great yea ok 216.208.8.232 10:52, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.jpg|150px]] - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  10:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Then dshot WoH. &mdash;  Skakid  11:01, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

rename it to :P - <tt>Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 15:29, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Ouch, sundering and penetrating have been nerfed slightly, haven't seen game updates but 12 marksmanship is showing up as +9 damage... -Frosty 16:46, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Pretty huge nerf. Domage is qq now. Rawrawr 16:47, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

The damage is about halved now. Going to put on an archive tag and QQ. - PANIC!    pewpewpew!  16:57, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Lol...the damage isn't halved. Such exaggerations. The power of the skills were more from the fast attack speed than the +damage. Definitely a nerf, though. Zuranthium 18:02, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Who didn't see it coming?
I seriously laughed out loud when I read the March 20 updates and saw they had nerfed sundering and penetrating attack lol. All the times I told those wikidiots in RA to enjoy it while it lasts... man it felt good to see the update. Their "spike" potential is still there because of the fast activation, but now noobs can't sit there and spam the two as often as before. I predicted the recharge nerf, although I expected a worse nerf of maybe 5s recharge, but the damage and sundering nerf balances it out. GG Anet, this build deserved the nerfbat. ;) Zephyr Cloud 23:13, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


 * This build isn't completely dead. It's definitely not as great now, but it is still powerful in CM and RA.--JenniferBelle 14:54, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Cause anything works in RA.  Antiarchangel [[Image:Antiarchangel No U Sig.png|19px]] <font color=#C0641B>NO U  14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

<font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 17:24, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

PvE
How about rewrite it to a PvE-Only build, as it works there? And dps is really huge - 60-70 on lvl 24 foes without stuff like order of vampire/pain. &mdash; Abedeus   07:30, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
 * ill do it [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  21:50, 8 January 2009 (EST)