Archive talk:W/E Conjure Cripslash

Discussion
This build is great in GvG, I use it to Gank archers and footmen.


 * Way, way too many counters for this build. Your killed by just about anything. However, it may be viable in other areas than RA. Take RA off the list because you most probably won't get a monk and someone most probably has a friendly condition for you on the other team. I tried it with the normal variant and the RA variant in RA. Didn't work at all. Fleeterm
 * >.> it works just as well as most warrior builds in RA rofl...it's called don't frenzy+Heal Sig. You may have better success... Readem  (talk *pvxcontribs ) 22:28, 3 June 2007 (CEST)

This is a fun Build, enjoy :D. Readem (talk *contribs ) 15:43, 4 May 2007 (CEST)

Sun+Moon is great on a conjure war. - Skakid9090 02:25, 5 May 2007 (CEST)

I know. It's in the varients. I prefer Protector's just because of the spike it provides. If the community decides Sun+Moon is better, it will be changed and Protector's will go into varients. Readem (talk *contribs ) 05:34, 5 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Completely fixed now. Double skill bar ftw :D!
 * Didn't read variants =P - Skakid9090 20:48, 6 May 2007 (CEST)

Good good. A lot of the time, people run all minors in GvG, so I'm going to add that as a note to the build page. Otherwise, nice work! - Krowman  (talk • contribs) 20:55, 6 May 2007 (CEST)

I think this is ready to go into untested now, I am not sure how to do that though... Readem (talk *contribs ) 23:24, 11 May 2007 (CEST)

I hate E-charge, but it works OK with Cripslash. - Krowman  (talk • contribs) 07:36, 13 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Not really, E-charge and cripslash are okay, but hundred blades is by far a better elite on a conjure warrior. Napalm Flame [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] 13:48, 14 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Hmm, I use E charge on everything. Even Evis ;P. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 15:00, 15 May 2007 (CEST)

Hundred Blades is a crap elite for GvG. Crip Slash + Gash is a great combo Cobis
 * Not for RA and TA it isn't though. And crip slash and gash is only good on degen teams. '~\^/~' <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)(contributions) 15:29, 14 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Um, do you even play a War? Crip Slash can be used pretty much anywhere worth going in PvP. Oh, and why degen team...that really doesn't make any sense :p. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 15:02, 15 May 2007 (CEST)

I played it a little before, and I think tactic of using this build is little wrong. Enraging Charge + Crippling Slash is ok, but to RA/TA (and propably other PvP too) don`t use Frenzy if you don`t have a cancel stance. In first variant I can`t see the "energy requirement", at least on RA I use full Survivor Insignia and never run out of energy. I`m also using 1 point less in Tactic to make Conjure at 8, but thats a minor edit. And the build works not only as a spike (like Berserkering Shadow assassin for example), but also as a really nice pressure, I was suprised when such Warrior was destroying me when I played as monk (didn`t have SoA then tho, this build kill itself when facing Shield cumulative protection). --DragonLord 16:10, 15 May 2007 (CEST)

For a more arena-ish build add in Flame Djinn's Haste for a speed boost and cover enchant, and replace Frenzy with Flail. Drop Heal sig for Lion's. That way you won't get owned when using frenzy. In GvG h/e frenzy is prob the better choice. Swiftslash \\  17:20, 15 May 2007 (CEST)

Eh, Flail is kinda of a "hammer only" thing. Merely because people will just kite away from you. Lion's is not as reliable as Heal sig. And to me I am just fine w/ frenzy. After the spiker, which usually results in the death of an opponent, I merely kite away using enraging. I guess timing is important too I guess lol. 75.162.253.193 03:06, 16 May 2007 (CEST)


 * That's why you have FDH. That way you cripple and run at normal speed with flail and FDH on (33%-33%). My point was that frenzy is a bad choice in smaller arenas where you can easely get targetted, even as a warrior. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 11:52, 16 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Frenzy would be better. You should take advantage of the cripple in order to get more criticals as warrior, not having to chase after him and missing the DoT that cripple provides.

I recommend dropping enraging charge for rush so its easier to cancel frenzy. The Godson 04:13, 17 May 2007 (CEST)

I highly disagree with the removal of the GvG tag. It is almost run exactly the same, with maybe the exception being Rush instead of Enraging. Thusly, the Admin who did it had no such right, and I am going to RV the Cleanup, adding rush as a varient. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:42, 17 May 2007 (CEST)


 * My guild uses in both skills in usage that I thought they would warrant their own page. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]]  23:52, 17 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Standard is cripslash/gash/sun-and-moon/bull's/conjure/frenzy/rush/res for gvg. Rapta 00:01, 18 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Perhaps this is just not-meta thinking, but why have 8-10 in a secondary profession attribute if you're only going to use one skill...? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 00:07, 18 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Frenzy w/ Conjure can be a substitute for Strenth. It also does a significant amount of damage. And Rapta, Bull's is only substituted for Heal sig if you are really really confident in your Monk ;). <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:38, 18 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Added Bull's note in varients. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:51, 18 May 2007 (CEST)

Rush > enrageing charge as cancel stance, and to catch kiters. Bulls strike should be standard too imo.Feriluce 19:17, 19 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Bull's isn't standard in Arenas. Heal Sig is where Bull's would be. Already had rush debate. Many run Enraging, many run Rush, case closed (Also already noted in varients). Catching Kiters should not be too hard Imo. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 20:07, 19 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Well..about bulls. I run without heal sig and with bulls in arenas ;). I guess you can run with enrageing charge, even if it is inferior :/Feriluce 04:21, 20 May 2007 (CEST)


 * this build is pretty much just a regular swordie build coupled with a damage booster, and ud need to use a fiery mod for the sword where you could've used sundering or what-not...far better builds than this
 * Conjure spells add more damage than a sundering mod ever does. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   05:02, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * It's also the build that 75% of uncreative people that play warriors use now. And about every sword warrior out there in the arenas use it.-- Sefre  T*C 05:17, 20 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Um, this build is run by most sword wars because it works, and is easy to use. Besides, Evis,BB, D-Slash take skill to use ;P. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 08:03, 20 May 2007 (CEST)

Why is this not vetted?
Why isn't this build favored yet? It's the best sword warrior build in any Arena, even used effectively in HA and GvG. Kratos Gowar 20 May 2007 14.33
 * Bcos we don't even have a vetting policy in place? Sign your comments with four tildes btw ( ~ ). - Auron 13:37, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * and we have this. Could only add some variants to it IMO. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 14:57, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I feel it is inferior to a HB swordsman, I don't think cripslash is a very good elite. Hamstring is better IMO as of the fact that it's not an elite. '~\^/~' <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)(contributions) 15:54, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * You're kidding... Right? HB is probably the worst sword elite there is, while Cripslash is one of the few good ones. Cripple with a cover condition right away, no need for sever, woo! Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 15:57, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm not. Conjure warriors are better with HB TBH. Have you ever SEEN what happens to a monk dumb enough to use healing touch on a warrior? Uhh, let me see... 100 damage per player, multiplied by 2 or 3... 300 damage from 5 energy, spread over 3 targets. That and SaMS... Ouch. As good if not better than an augurying final thruster. And you are forgetting, Barbarous Slice is like a totally bloody kickarse version of sever. Hamstring, barbarous and gash followed with SaMS and HB... They will hate you for that. '~\^/~' <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)(contributions) 16:01, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * What monk uses Healing touch on a warrior?! How often do you even hit more than one target? It has high damage potential, yes, if you're surrounded by a huge mob. That's gonna happen in PvP, people love to gather around the warrior.


 * Barbarous slice... +damage while NOT in a stance? Woo, a warrior without IAS, he's gotta be rocking! And YES I know you can activate your stace AFTER BS but still sever owns it, with it's lower adren. You're using 2 skill slots, a heck of a lot more energy to achieve the effect of Cripslash. gg. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 16:14, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I've seen RA monks do it yes. Ever heard of 2 or 3 warriors ganging on one person? THAT is a good example for the damage. I just hate cripslash as an elite, it's as weak as a fucking kitten, deals no bonus damage. And I can rock without an IAS, especially if I lead with hamstring. Such a narrow thought range you have.


 * Besides, I'm unfavouring this the second I can. Frenzy with no cancel in arenas is a deathtrap. And don't say you won't be a target, coz I deliberately target warriors with frenzy and own their arse off every time. And with enraging, you have like 20 seconds in which you are vulnerable if you use frenzy. Without enraging charge charged, you're gonna end up getting 3-4 hitted by a decent warrior. 'Nuff said. Though I do agree with FDH and Flail. If someone puts that in as a variant I might just spare this build. ^^ '~\^/~' <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)(contributions) 16:21, 20 May 2007 (CEST)

RA monks don't count. Besides trying to keep a 4 man team up with healing prayers is dumb. That example was silly. I've heard of ganks, but you won't be hitting more than one person if you gank a monk, I don't see where you're getting. Going for the warriors ganking is a way to spread some damage around the party, but if you're gonnna harass the other teams warriors, just use a Linebacker. Narrow thought range? You're probably right. I'm narrow to think a warrior with IAS applies more damage and pressure than one without, especially with a conjure. Sorry.

I've been trying to say this build is flawed for a long time. Since it seems you're directing your last message to me I suggest you scroll up a bit and see what I've posted. You're repeating what I've said and making it sound like I've said otherwise. This build should be deleted since we have a cripslash, where conjure, etc can be added to variants. Swiftslash \\  16:40, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Ah, I see, mon apologie. I guess I got my people mixed up. But yeah, the example was off the top of my head somewhat randomly. Linebacker is okay, well, good if you have 5 knockdowns. I admit, a warrior with an IAS HAS more DPS than one without, but one with hamstring as a starter just doesn't need the dps really, he has at least 10 seconds to make his cripple count, and since I personally prefer HB as an elite as it deals 40 bonus damage with conjure, along with 30 base damage on average, I use that. And oh yeah, thinking about HB as a PvE elite too, I just had a thought. If I had a Mark of Pain necro mark all the enemies while I tank, I can then hit for something like 20 bonus damage per successful hit to each monster. I'm gonna make a quick equation here.


 * ([30 x 2] + [20 x 2]) x 4 = 400, 100 per target. 20 x 2 x 3 x 4 (As the target cannot be harmed by his own mark of pain I don't think)= 480, since mark of pain will hit each monster a total of 6 times, meaning each target will take 120 damage. From one simple chain, I've already done about 220 damage. Sure, HB may not be the PvP god elite, but for PvE it's kickarse, well, it will HAVE to be since to cap it in proph you have to get to the last mission. And MoP would have to be echoed, and then use arcane mimicry to mimic another person with echo. It's possible but complicated. But still, with just one mark of pain, you are going to be hitting each adjacent foe for an extra 40 damage. '~\^/~' <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)(contributions) 18:42, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * This is a PvP build, why are you moving onto PvE? Makes no sense. And splinter weapon > having to rely on you allies for AoE damage. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 18:50, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * (edit conflict) HB really is bad for this build. S&MS pwns it completely. It doesn't cost any energy, cannot be blocked, and doesn't take up your elite slot. Look, as a war, you really need an IAS; not only to increase DPS and spiking, but it is used to charge adren as well. Hamstring is very expensive for a warrior, and yes you do end up using 2 skill slots to do what Cripslash can do with one. This is not a PvE build; whether or not HB > Cripslash in PvE is an irrelevant debate for this build. Also, judging a skill's power/usefulness by its cap location is a good way to start creating bad builds. Greater Conflagration anyone? HB and Hamstring would both be bad for this build. Warriors may gang up on someone, but most good wars will target a soft char over a war anyday. If you are still really concerned about two wars ganging up on you when using this build, bring a rit and ask him to Splinter Weapon you, or run Earthshaker. If you could care less about the extra utility a Cripslash has over an HB war, and purely want more damage, I suggest you try a D-Slasher. Like I said above, I hate e-charge, but other than that, I don't see the flaw in the build. It deals good damage, has an effective attack combo, speed buff, IAS, rez etc. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman    19:00, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Ya'll are forgetting one major detail. HB/S&MS wars and Cripslash warriors have two different purposes. Comparing them to one another is like comparing apples and oranges, seriously. Cripslash is the Warrior's best attempt at condi pressure, HB is a silly attempt at matching the DPS of a dragon slasher (yeh, try dragon slash with conjure and S&MS, you'd be impressed). Don't compare the two unless you're comparing their performance at the same job... cripslash isn't going to match a HB/S&MS spammer at DPS, but then again, it never wanted to. - Auron 12:08, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

P.S. You haven't specified any kind of shield to use here. Mind if I say Tactics req -20% blind +30hp? - <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman    20:12, 20 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Casual PvP yes. GvG, no, if you have to wait for the blind to wear off it's gg anyway (like dazed on a monk, but not as bad). The monks should be able to take it off you. I'd prefer -5/+30, or even -2/+45 if you've got a good stance (as you should). -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 01:21, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

Going to switch EC to Rush. Add EC as Varient. 75.162.224.27 05:01, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

You don't need Tactics at all, rly, unless you're running the split-worthy W/Mo. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 06:16, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

Are you Kidding me...
Who put heal sig on this thing??? NO HEAL SIG ON CRIPSLASH. Thats what your monk is for. Your job is to own, not to stay alive by yourself. This isn't a ganking build, no heal! Seriosuly, the points need to be put into fire(or water[which i find better])and strength.Dark0805 14:27, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * "This build is extremely energy intensive". All right thats it i'm editing it myself.Dark0805 14:29, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Could you elaborate on why gw:Conjure Frost is better? I would prefer the Fire conjure, and bring an ele with Mark of Rodgort. You're probably not going to be straying too far from the flagstand with this build, and being able to apply burning en masse is always nice. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   22:10, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Armor of Mist, or better yet, Frigid Armor. Besides, along your reasoning, people will be expecting flame (and may bring +al vs fire shields, or worse yet, Mantra of Flame, especially with the SF/SH metagame). Being able to catch an opponent off guard, especially a monk, is always to your advantage and may be gamebreaking in the right situations. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 22:35, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Do you mean that the war should bring those skills, or that other chars will have them? I would rather Rush over the water speed buffs anyday. I don't see many people running Mantra of Flame, especially when Mes can bring Mantra of Inscriptions, Monks have Dark Escape or whatnot, Rangers have Natural (and are already set against ele dmg), and Eles usually go E/Mo or E/Rt to support the party. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   23:04, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I was thinking the war would bring them. Maybe I've not been in enough high end PvP lately, but I thought I'd seen an increase in random characters with Mantra of Flame recently. And not all monks have Dark Escape or things like that - I never bring it, too busy with protting. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 23:14, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Sorry, it was just an example stance. Some common stances for Monks include Dark Escape, Balanced Stance, Hex Breaker, Mantra of Inscriptions, Disciplined Stance sometimes, and these would prevent the use of Mantra of Flame. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   23:20, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Heh, I thought you were referring to the "optional slot filled by a secondary profession's skill" which would include (commonly) Inspired/Revealed Hex, Power Drain, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Dash, Shield Bash, Return, etc... But meh, I can't really see how any of them would outperform Mantra of Flame, but this isn't really the place to discuss the SF metagame. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 23:29, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * SF-way sucks. No Monk uses Mantra. Dark Escape and or Balanced w/ a (-2) while stanced outperforms Mantra. Few use Disci stance, though noobish many use Frenzied D. SF is not meta, it never wins halls and is pwned by IV Spike or even Thump-way which in itself creeps me out. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:03, 22 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I find it exceedingly hilarious that my abject criticism went unnoticed and instead i spurred a fight over fire vs. water. But to add my opinion, fire and lightning are the damage you'll see more defense against. They're the more popular PvP elements, as such bring the unorthodox for better offense.Dark0805 17:22, 22 May 2007 (CEST)
 * All conjures are used equally pretty much. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:26, 22 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Sorry but i think you misunderstand. I was referring to lightning and fire damage as a whole, not the conjures. With SF/SH metagame, i mean, c;mon, why even think about going in with a fiery when the mesmer might be using mantra o' flame, everyone will have "sleep now in the fire", etc. Thats just the point i'm making.12.75.131.210 23:39, 22 May 2007 (CEST)
 * No mes uses Mantras in HA. None, zip, zero. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:20, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I couldn't agree more. But even if you just read the most recent state of the game you'll notice that many will carry anti lightning and DEFINETLY anti fire. And besides, if your buddy has mark of rodgort, then fine use fire but otherwise i mean i just think its better to use the one your enemy won't expect.Dark0805 17:32, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Anti lightning and anti fire? This isn't pokemon... Any PvP char will have a shield for every type (vs fire, lightning, blunt, slashing, etc), so trying to trick them out won't work too well. That would only work if people brought mantras, but they don't, so... - Auron 07:14, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Um, so about the original point; I agree. I use Bull's Strike myself. I find that spreading your attributes between so many lines is counterproductive. I'd take Healing Signet out and put it as an optional slot (does this Wiki use those?), since there's a lot of other skills used there. Also, unrelated, why the Superior rune? You get 2 extra seconds out of every condition, at the expense of 75 health. I can't see the reasoning there. Eilsys 08:14, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes, this wiki does use optional slots. As for the Sup rune, I agree and posted that comment way up at the top of this page. I don't run my wars with sup runes anymore, and I think the general consensus is all minors. Higher weapon mastery doesn't only increase condition duration, but also increases the damage the warrior can cause. In any case, this isn't a damage-focused build, so my advice would be to run a minor Swordsmanship rune. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   08:21, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * This build is seriously made by someone who tried to leech it from the top. You don't run healsign when you already have conjure! That's 4 attributes = gg, if you want healsign then drop conjure. Unexist
 * Yah thats exactly what i'm saying. But i see no reason why no superiors. they DO increase damage and with a sup vigor and sword+shield of fortitude your'e quite fine with it on.Dark0805 18:55, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * No superiors is just standart in gvg, you need the health for if you face spikes(spikes are quite common there) and you probally won't have a constant morale like in HA. Unexist

Counters
Spirit Bond, Prot Spirit, Shield of Deflection? IMO they're not enough. Spike damage is mostly through the deep wound and the addition of conjure damage, which is in a separate packet from the main damage. Means PS and SB at the very least have no effect. My guild leader posted a rant at me proving this, I'll repost it here just to show my point.

<i> 2) Using your example from the first page "a melee spike consists of maybe four attacks over two people. Let's assume one of them's a conjure/twin moon warrior."

First attack = Warrior1 Elite, Warrior2 Elite + Conjure Second attack = Warrior1 Followup, Warrior2 Sun and Moon Slash + Conjure on each hit Third attack = Warrior1 last skill, Warrior2 last skill + conjure

During the first attack, there are three damage "packets". Shield of Absorption will trigger a -5, -10, and -15... resulting in a net reduction of -30 on the first round.

During the second round, there are five "packets"--Warrior1 makes a single hit, while Warrior2 attacks much like the Dual Shot ranger above. Shield of Absorption, remember, is now on the fourth hit after the first attack. Thus, Shield of Absorption will trigger -20, -25, -30, -35, and -40. The potential damage reduction here is 150. It won't be that great, though, because even the smallest -20 here is enough to completely reduce the conjure damage to zero.

So by now, the conjure damage has been rendered worthless, and the warrior's actual My Sword Is Hitting You damage will be reduced by something between -20 and -40 (depending on how Guild Wars determines the order that SoA applies).

For the third attack, Shield of Absorption is starting at -45. Almost NOTHING the warriors follow up with is going to do -any- damage at this point--and even if they do manage to his with a 60 damage attack, net damage after SoA is 15 damage.

If a caster or ranger decides to hit with a normal T+space for pressure (normally a good move), even if they get just after the first attack... their wand/bow damage is reduced by Shield of Absorption at -20, so they will do little to no damage. And the next warrior attack after this wand begins not at -20 reduction, but at -25.

This is a perfect example of why high-level players will scatter the -instant- they see yellow arrows appear. The best teams will try to get the prot monks to waste their Shield of Absorption on a target (preferably Spirit Bond and/or Protective Spirit as well!) before converging on another target and spiking it during the 5 seconds Prot Spirit is recharging and 10 seconds SoA is.

Spirit Bond triggers before damage reduction. So, even if the warriors' high attacks are getting reduced to near nothing, Spirit Bond is STILL healing for +92 as if there were no Shield. ^_^ </i>

-Red

-- Armond Warblade 20:17, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * And then you realize that a crippling slash warrior doesn't give a damn about pure damage outside of autoattacking. Your goal is to apply pressure via cripple and monks not being able to kite etc. If they want to waste 5 energy every 10 seconds on the target you're training, guess what you can do? 1. Change targets, or 2a. Keep training the protted target, build adrenaline and save it for later use, or 2b. build adrenaline and unleash it anyway (Cripslash and Gash, naturally, you'd be an idiot to unleash your entire combo if you know he's got SoA on him and you've been autoattacking for a time).
 * No, SoA is not a counter, simple as that. SoA is nice, SoA mitigates damage, but it doesn't do anything to mitigate your pressure via condition spam, which was your goal in the first place. - Auron 10:50, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * But, but, if we don't care about damage, why is Conjure Flame in the build? Why not a furious sword for adrenaline and stay on it, and switch to /Mo with Mending Touch, put all the attribute points from Fire Magic into protection or tactics, focus on getting those (and maybe more!) conditions out in less time and have more gankability? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 15:58, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * "Auto-attack." - Auron 02:13, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * 3/4 of a balanced build's pressure. Unexist 11:28, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Frenzy
In most builds I see frenzy. Crippling can be removed and you can kite, so flail in unreliable in my opinion. Flail is also bad before spikes because you lose adrenaline using it, making oyu have to hit your target one more time to give away the spike. Just use Frenzy, a good war knows how to use it safely and can cancel it fast.Cheese Slaya 21:59, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes, Dark0805 changed it, but I agree, Frenzy is the standard. I really do prefer the version with healsig and lower fire magic, but the rest of you can decide which we should have as the main skillbar for the article. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   22:06, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Keep Heal Sig in Main. People use Heal Sig in GvG all the time (Always in Arenas). FM was fine. Can always just leave a note about lower Strenth. No Monk in GvG, or any arena uses the mantras. People use different conjures everytime. RV some of the changes. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:42, 22 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Well this brings up whether we're catering to high end phoenix's or frigging deers. There are enough lower skill PvPers where i think flail should be in and frenzy the unspoken high level variant. W/e my opinion. HOWEVER, heal sig... no frigging way. I have NEVER seen once this build with heal sig, it spreads attributes painfully, and as i said, this build is meant to spike and deal damage. Your monk should be keeping you alive. Nor is it a ganking build where you need a self heal. No heal sig!Dark0805 17:22, 22 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Speaking as a monk, I have this thing about seeing the W/E's hp turn pale pink and gray, go waaay down, and then launch back up just enough for me to reach him. If this isn't supposed to happen, PLEASE tell my guildies that they're overextending and I'm not hanging back too far, because that's what they always say. :P -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 20:25, 22 May 2007 (CEST)


 * XD, the most popular War Build of all time have heal sig on there bar. It is actually difficult to find any that do not have it. Heal Sig stays. If you don't believe me, check Shock Axe for example. <font color="Black">Readem  (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:25, 22 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Ehh the heal is matter of opinion i guess but it was annoying me at first idk why. I just feel the need for more damage and less puttzing around trying to keep healthy. Though i think i have to say, in the RA heal sig should be used.12.75.131.210 23:39, 22 May 2007 (CEST)

Readem... "Replace with a skill that best suits your guild strategy, for example Armor of Mist." You're seriously suggesting going W/E and putting points into water magic for... armor of mist? Who ever does that? - Auron 00:27, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm pretty sure thats based on the assumptiom of using conjure frost and an icy.Dark0805 00:30, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * It's... silly. No warriors use stuff like that. /E has a use for warriors, but it isn't for speedbuffs. - Auron 00:33, 23 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Response to Auron: Never said I would do that. I have just seen it done. Then again that might have been a test Build time I was watching rofl. Removed. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:18, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Yah Seriosuly who the hell would use AoM on a warrior? But i'm thinking... maybe like shard storm for a snare or something... idk.Dark0805 17:32, 23 May 2007 (CEST)


 * AoM would be nice if it lasted longer. As it is, it's a half-time cover enchantment with some nice bonuses while its up. =\ Frigid Armor seems to be a much better choice. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 20:00, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * lol? Warriors do fine without throwing ele enchants on themselves, and Frigid Armor would do a warrior zero good :/ - Auron 02:16, 24 May 2007 (CEST)

Healing Signet
Get rid of it, the attributes are too spread out wiht that &mdash; Skuld 11:52, 24 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Correct Attributes are 12-10-8 sword-element-strength. Healing Signet should really be bull's strike, and final thrust and shock should be in variants for bull's. 212.219.116.67 12:01, 24 May 2007 (CEST)


 * FT is a no. Shock will ve added into varients. Cannot remove heal sig, due to the fact this Build is often used in RA and TA, where it is a staple. Atts are fine as a general PvP. Will add note about GvG and HA. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 15:37, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Wtf? Why bulls when cripple snares??? But yay Skuld said what i said which means i'm right yay!!!Dark0805 17:23, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Dark, being correct and being popular are not at all related.ZamaneeJinn 19:55, 28 May 2007 (CEST)
 * To knock down, fool, cripslash don't KD. If you're using healsig, ditch the conjure so you actually gain some health from a decent tactics rank. &mdash; Skuld 23:27, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * No...Skuld is not always right. You are not right. Actually, unless you are talking about Hard Core GvG or HA Builds, Skuld is not the person to go see. He is just too expierienced, to understand the concerns of noobs. Heal Sig=healing for noob Wars and teams that don't trust their monks. This Build is for those teams. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:35, 24 May 2007 (CEST)


 * No one ditches conjure Skuld -_-... Bull's is good and can replace HS. Pretty sure it's in varients. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:36, 24 May 2007 (CEST)


 * DOnt have conjure and healsig on same build k point &mdash; Skuld 23:38, 24 May 2007 (CEST)


 * O.o? Barely got one word of that ;P. Besides, if I understand what you are saying, Heal Sig w/ Conjure is used all the time. The only guild I have not seen use HS on Cripslash wars, is [EW] and [vD]. Everyone else uses it ;). In Ra, Ta, and usually Ha, heal sig is used. <font color="Black">Readem  (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:42, 24 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Seriously, i don't see the point of heal sig in this build. Even in Ra, i kill so fast i almost never need a heal. Besides, as of late there's been a few more monks than usual in RA. But Skuld, don't you think cripple PLUS kd is overkill? I mean with rush or some other IMS, combined with crip? not to mention a five adrenaline require on crip slash. Thats a less than 5 second reapplication of the cripple should it be removed. Oh and also don't go saying you can take out conjure for hs, IMHO Conjure is what makes the build.Dark0805 01:01, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * KD is better then crip. Momentarily disables a target, + anti-kite. It is better then crip in every way. If there were 9 slots, bull's would be included. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:09, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * KD + Cripple = kills, why is this bad? &mdash; Skuld 02:54, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * To re-iterate his earlier point, Conjure sucks. Ditch the conjure, bring something more useful (i.e., shock). That way, your attributes can support a Healsig if you want it, or something, but really... conjures fail. Your point isn't to DPS, your point is to cripple and keep deep wounds flowing, that's why this build splits so well. - Auron 03:16, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * LOLZ, Auron study meta. Almost EVERY guild runs CONJURE. The only other varient is the split Crip which uses MT. Other then that, it is conjure all the way...in varients I even mentioned the removal of Heal Sig, for Bull's (Which is almost always there for GvG). However heal sig has to stay, for this Build to be considered RA, and TA, which it most certainly belongs. Besides, shock is ftl in this Build. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:23, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I consider Conjure a FotM. Know why? "Almost EVERY guild runs CONJURE" because they're impressionable nubs that saw top-ranked guilds running it when it wasn't nerfed, and the nubs haven't stopped running it even though it's mostly a waste of attribute points. If you're running, say, a Dragon Slash warrior (or a Moebius Sin) and your entire goal in life is to DPS, then yeh, the conjures are great. If your entire goal is to split effectively, to stack conditions and pressure anything you train, then conjure is a remarkably poor choice. I've run warrior for a very long time, and run pretty much every secondary; the conjures are just not impressive for the majority of Warrior builds. I don't care if a million other idiots run conjure, it just isn't the best choice. - Auron 03:30, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * >.>, EW and vD still run this...with Bull's mind you. Oh, and the dps of Conjure Wars is extremely high. Whatever you are thinking, you are wrong. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:34, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh, and Dragon Slashers w/ conjure= ftl. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:37, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * So I take it you've never run warrior? :/ -[[User:Auron|<font

color="black">Auron ]] 03:35, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Hehehe, you are funny my friend. I only play a War and Monk >.> <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:37, 25 May 2007 (CEST)

<ri, same topic> You've said like fifty wrong things in a short time, so be patient as I go through and debunk each one.
 * "Oh, and the dps of Conjure Wars is extremely high." Dead wrong. It's decent, at best. It's easily mitigated damage, costs 10 energy, is easily strip-able (most teams in GvG have a mesmer with a strip or two) and requires a quite high investment of attribute points, making all the warrior stuff you do less effective.
 * Next... "and Dragon Slashers w/ conjure= ftl". Dragon Slash adds 30-40 damage to the hit and 5 adrenaline, allowing more spam of S&MS and more DPS than a HB/S&MS build, along with more spammable sever/gash. Dragon Slash is a better DPS build than cripslash, and therefore, conjure fits into that build better. Conjure on a cripslash is attempting to make the damage more scary by sacrificing utility skills like Shock and Mending Touch; in general, a bad idea.
 * You seem to like pulling guild names to justify running shitty builds. "oh, VoD runs it, so it must be good!" Remember, they are the best players in the game. They can run whatever the hell they feel like running, and still win. Remember when the iQ monks ran elite-less bars for the hell of it? They didn't lose one game with it. Should I use that as support of submitting an elite-less monk bar on the wiki? That's the logic you're using. Stop using it, it makes zero sense.
 * I think I got it all, forgive me if I missed something. - Auron 03:48, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * LOLZ, and you always say the exact same thing in retaliation. Do you think top 10 guilds pull random shit out of a hat, and hope it works? They are fucking #1, because they are the best players, using what they consider to best fit their bars XD. So basically what I am saying is...you are kinda full of shit. My logic is as good as any other persons, on this wiki. Bringing up [iQ] and there eliteless Monks...no duh. They are going to win when going against a "Test" team, or a R776. zomg, NO WAY :O <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:57, 25 May 2007 (CEST)

Well, we should document it nonetheless. When it has fallen from grace, we can archive it. As it stands now, there are hundreds of teams running the conjure spells on their wars. Both Readem and Auron have acknowledged that. We have a page for the Archive:W/E Crippling Slash Warrior (which could use some improving), and then we have this one. This page can demonstrate the Conjure Cripslash build, the other can demonstrate the non-Conjure Cripslash. - <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman    03:39, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * I'm fine with that. As long as we get rid of Sprint on the other War >.> lol <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:41, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Like I said, it needs improving. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   03:46, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Perhaps convert it into the Split Cripslash? W/ Mending Touch? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:49, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Now see at that point: different build. Sure make a split warrior, mending, hs, the works. But don't just add it as a massive variant! Just because they have the same elite doesn't mean shit and at this point that sounds like the only similiarity the builds share.Dark0805 04:37, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * ? I was talking about the current vetted cripslash. It is horrible, and uses sprint. I was talking about changing it to something that is actually useful. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 04:43, 25 May 2007 (CEST)

Back on topic. If healing signet has to stay for this to be an 'RA-suitable build' (not that teams without a monk glad all that often anymore, not as much as they used to certainly), drop strength down to 3 or 3+1 and run 12-9-9 or 12-10-8. Rush is perfectly fine without investment, healing signet and conjures are not. Sticking healing signet on a conjure cripslash and advocating its use in GvG is ridiculous. Though fwiw, Krowman mentioned the importance of recording meta; if this is the case it should be GvG meta and certainly not RA meta which we record, not that the people in RA running this build usually take a self heal at all, so time for the RA variant to go. Phool 11:57, 25 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Actually, I'd suggest splitting this into two articles, one for RA, one for GvG, as they have some very different requirements, but a lot of crossover in basic PVP gaming (e.g. SF turns up flippin everywhere :P). Also, I reckon that we should keep track of RA meta in the interest of the RA builds on the site.Egon 12:49, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Actually, someone tried to split it, but it got deleted by an admin for some reason... I don't remember anymore. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk···contributions) 13:24, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * I don't think conjure cripslash is common enough on RA to feature as very major RA builds, however it is certainly common enough in GvG to. Burning Arrow rangers, shadow prison spikers, zealous benediction mo/as, SoR bonder mo/es, RaO thumpers, touchers, SF eles, those e/d tanks, wanderlust spirit spammers and bsurge eles are some builds that have at some time or other been extremely common. Cripslash doesn't really make that list imo, except maybe over that weekend before the conjures got rebalanced when conjure warriors were pretty much everywhere, though I didn't spend more than 20-30 mins in RA then I don't think. Phool 13:47, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Being the person who originally wrote the GvG version page, I say split it, but my vote doesn't count. If we decide to make a GvG version, we need a name for it - W/E GvG Cripslash, perhaps? (It was deleted from by User:Auron because it was apparently a dupe of this build, which was then moved to its current name.) -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]]  17:22, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * -_-...omfg. THE GVG VERSION IS ONLY DIFFERENT, IN ONE WAY! REPLACE HEAL SIG FOR BULL'S AND YOU HAVE THE GVG VERSION! IT IS EVEN NOTED IN THE VARIENTS! *breathing heavily* I am adding the note where people can actually see it imo. Healing Sig, is standard for all War Builds. 15/22 of our War PvP vetted Builds, use HS. The other have mending Touch, or Sig of Malice to someway heal themselves. This one has no way to recover, and relieve pressure, besides using heal sig. If it really matters this much...I am changing it to the GvG version, and adding Heal Sig in the note lmao. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 21:07, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * None of the other builds are Conjure builds, really. And in the standard Conjure warrior, there's no Heal Sig. Non-conjure W/Mo's that are split-based have Heal Sig and Mending Touch as I see them, but this one is one that stays with the main group. IMO make a separate Cripslash. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:25, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * I already tried asking to convert the vetted cripslash to the MT+HS one... but I got no response. Sorry if I sounded pissed off above, I was. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:38, 25 May 2007 (CEST)


 * 15 of our 22 warrior builds? I point you to max sword damage values. :D -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 00:20, 26 May 2007 (CEST)


 * They use HS since you've got an optional slot, and a selfheal on a warrior is great against degen. Tho, everyone in balanced now runs a ranger, so it's easy to interupt(unless their ranger is stupid). BUT: with conjure, even in ra, a healing signet doesn't work. That makes your attributes too spreaded. And in ra, it's even more easy to interupt a healsign, since you just have to watch 4 targets. A monk can easily handle it btw, since they usually got Signet of Divotion and Zealous Benediction, so they'll be at full energy 3/4 of the time. Unexist 11:34, 14 June 2007 (EDT)


 * Reset indent, a lot of guilds use an LoD and an RC instead of a ZB. Although Shield of Deflection is becoming more popular. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 11:47, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Attributes
9+1 strength 9 fire magic currently. imo should be 8+1 strength 10 fire magic - 1 dph is better than +1AP on attack skills, +2 on bull's, and a negligible 1 sec on rush. If anyone thinks it should stay say now. Phool 10:04, 30 May 2007 (CEST)

Warrior Builds (PvP)

 * Moved to User talk:Readem

Known build...
This build and it's variants are already very well known and much used. Why is this build featured?
 * For the very reasons you just stated. We can switch it up once we get our Vetting system in place. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   19:20, 9 June 2007 (CEST)

Then why is this build being tested? It doesn't need any tests...
 * Technically, it just needs to get vetted (which it likely will). We can get it vetted (tested) once we have our vetting procedure in place. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   04:13, 10 June 2007 (CEST)

Blessed Insignia
Why is Survivor's listed instead of Blessed? Because people aren't intelligent enough to know that defense is better than extra hp in almost every conceivable situation? This is why equipment shouldn't be listed on build pages other than the absolutely necessary...I guarantee you a Blessed conjure cripslash warrior would be better than a Survivor conjure cripslash warrior would be. S Penumbra 16:44, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

Actually, Hp is better then armor in most situations. Ever heard of Blood Spike? You can have 1000 AR, I really don't care and you'll still be dead. Plenty of things ignore armor such as degen and hexes. Even +dmg does. Health counters those though. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 16:47, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * In PVP maybe, but for general PVE AL is usually better as there is more general damage flying around. +AL is better vs non-degen pressure (reduces consistent attacks), +HP is better vs spike (greater chance of the spike being insufficient if they are not expecting +HP). -Egon 20:35, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * This is a PvP build, so... - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   03:33, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
 * ...I've been reading too many builds at once and thought this was flagged PVE too :P Egon 23:34, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

Life stealing and degeneration hurt a warrior more than damage, since they already have naturally high armor. The extra health is much better on a warrior than the extra armor. - <font color="Black">Skakid9090 16:49, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * /agree with both. Besides, in skilled PvP, Warriors aren't going to be the target of all that much damage. The other team will go for your softer targets first, uness they can get you on an over-extension. Also, equipment is listed to further aid new players in learning how to play the game well. Keeping it vague would be just be one way that we could be helping them but aren't. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   16:51, 24 June 2007 (EDT)


 * Regardless of whether HP or armor helps more in those certain situations (though I will say that those seem kind of limited...degen and armor ignoring, compared to the constant auto attacking)...40 health is so very little. For 40 less max health (or even 25 less max health, stick the blessed on chest and legs where you will get hit the most) you gain 12.5% damage reduction from everything except for degen, and of course, armor ignoring. At 10 degen it takes 2 seconds to render your +40 max health void. S Penumbra 03:49, 26 June 2007 (EDT)


 * dreadnoughts is preferable to blessed (almost no-one's stupid enough to attack a warrior with anything other than an elemental weapon, shatter enchantment is common in spikes and many teams will be stripping conjures as a fairly priority removal when not spiking), survivor is preferable to dreadnoughts. 40 health is a great deal with no morale boost, with DP losing that 40 health is pure suicide. Phool 03:56, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

126 armor versus physical(with+10vs.whatever shield) and 106 versus elemental(with+10vs.whatever shield) is more than enough armor for autoattacks and such to not do much damage. When you get spiked(and you will), health is what matters(although personally, I run radiant on warriors with stonefist gloves or boots). Mesmer damage(shatter, eburn, etc.) is armor-ignoring. Lorb is armor-penetrating. +damage from attack skills are armor-ignoring. Armor is worse than health against spikes, attack skills, degen. Most importantly, Death Penalty. --Edru viransu 07:20, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

Merge please
There shouldn't be two cripslash build pages imo. Merge them into one build with the following variants: 1. this one; 2. heal sig instead of conjure and enraging charge instead of either rush or bull's strike (hybrid splittable version); 3. same as 2, but add Mending Touch and drop rush or bull's strike (solo splittable version); 4. W/A version with D-Dagger and/or Dash and/or Signet of Malice. I Noob I 10:59, 4 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Meh, the Conjure Cripslash is the most common, we should have this posted up as W/E. Add the variants to the W/any if you'd like, but we should keep this one because it is the build that most new players will be looking for. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   11:01, 4 July 2007 (CEST)
 * There's the W/E Conjure, and there's the W/Mo with Mending Touch and Heal Sig. All others are just variants of the two standard ones used in GvG. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 11:09, 4 July 2007 (CEST)

It's usefulness in RA?
I'm mainly seeing discussions of this build as it applies to GvG or any organized team build. But I'm wondering, how well does it work in RA for you guys when you try it? Some major problems I'm running into are blind bots, melee hating necros and the like which pretty much shuts this build down completely. Unless you're luckly enough to get a monk on team, what do you do in such a scenario? Sit around and twiddle your thumbs until the blind, hex wears off? Robin 12:51, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Something on the line of "swear-at-the-necro-and-wish-I-had-lieutenant's-helm". Warriors are not fun anymore in ra. --Jim Eno 12:55, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Um...those are just standard Warrior Counters :/. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 20:27, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

Anyone
Switch to water(conjure frost) cuz of glacial blade? I did.Dark0805|Rant 05:04, 25 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Do not understand question...pls rephrase? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:47, 27 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Use a PvP character? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 02:55, 27 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Most of the time, as my chars are only gud for GvG, and even then... <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:06, 27 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I was telling Dark0805 to use a PvP character. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 03:10, 27 July 2007 (CEST)
 * o lulz. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:13, 27 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Xunlai Chest. I've taken a look, it's a pretty neat sword, but I've been fail at getting into GvG lately... -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 04:17, 29 July 2007 (CEST)

Viable in AB?
I was trying to find a way to make this viable in AB, and seeing how 80% of Elementalists run some sort of burning build, I came up with this:

Cripple has a lot less chance of being cleaned in AB, due to the usual lack of Monking, so I thought Flail would be a bit more viable than Frenzy. Frigid Armor and Conjure Frost are obvious choices. I'd like to have some sort of self heal, but I just don't feel the need to spread attribues that far, and by the time they are targeting a Warrior, usually you are the last one standing surrounded by 3+ players. Healing yourself isn't going to help. Suggestions?--4.243.46.179 12:38, 18 August 2007 (CEST)