User talk:Xen0mortis

Hello there, welcome to PvX. ~ ĐONT * SYSOP  21:19, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Make a hawt sig so we can be buddies kaykay? rąʂKƴ ɖooƿɭɘş[[Image:Mgrinshpon bluebunny.gif|19px]] 21:39, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

Dunno if you're actually here anymore, but some build changes have occurred, and your vote didn't really explain much of the reason for your rating in the first place. Secondary skills don't seem like something you'd trash a build over. --  Toraen   talk  03:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The core skills are the problem; the secondary skills do little to save it and don't really lend the build much strength. The build never really did anything impressive, hence the low rating. Although on reflection, a 3 would be more fair. Xenomortis 10:53, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Clumsiness and Wandering Eye do a lot of armor-ignoring AoE damage, are spammable, and add defense to your party as well. It's a very common build for heroes as a result. You haven't said anything about why the skills are bad and that's the problem here. --  Toraen   talk  16:40, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This simply arises from a difference of opinion; they do damage semi-reliably and are good filler skills but I would never build a human bar around them; compared to what else can be run the bar is lackluster. For a hero they're more reasonable and an Ineptitude Illusion Mesmer can be a strong option. I never said the skills were bad.
 * It's designed primary for heroes with a human option (unfortunately the order on the page has to be human build then hero for the build pack collection script to parse it properly). Vet builds based on their strongest tag, not weakest, since trashing a build that's great on heroes just because it's an option for players doesn't really help our documentation. There was some talk of splitting that page, but it was decided against because they would be too similar. --  Toraen   talk  17:06, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Then why is Cry of Pain given as a core skill? Now if it were sold as a hero bar then I'd view it a little more favourably, but as a human bar I stand by what I said before. If you're so determined to push it, I'll amend my rating comment to mention that.
 * The hero version has a damage potential higher than its domination counterpart, totally rapes melees and still has room for some support in the form of enchant removal or a rez. The only downside is its medicore energy management, but nevertheless this is meta material for heroes. Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 17:18, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The damage isn't really targeted like an ESurge Dom Mesmer; but its damage capabilities can probably match or exceed that of a Panic Mesmer (I suppose this might depend on the specific bars). It is a potential candidate for hybrid support, which is always a plus. As I said; as a hero bar I view it more favourably, I don't see why you feel to need to push that further.Xenomortis 17:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The damage DOES exceed that of a Panic mesmer, because when you compare WE to Mistrust, Clum Sig to Unnat Sig, Ineptitude to Panic/ESurge, and Clum to CoP, the illusion mes wins out in pretty much every single comparison and has faster recharges to boot. Put simply, the hero build is within the top 4 or so builds you can run on a hero in the whole game. The player version isn't rediculously OP, but it's still AoE damage that any other caster could only dream of. -- Jai . -  16:02, July 18 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I think you should consider Fast Casting with those calculations. See E-surge's AoE damage, Mistrust, CoP can be used as an interrupt equally, too. Utility is a good thing. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 20:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * FC on Domination and Illusion heroes are about the same usually, so that doesn't really affect the DPS comparison at all. Also, if this discussion is going to continue, I recommend that it continue on the build pages. More on topic, Xenomortis still hasn't amended his vote even though ample reasoning has been provided against it (and the build is now more clearly labelled as intended for heroes in the frequency section). If he doesn't change it himself I'll have to remove it again. --  Toraen   talk  00:51, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems odd when you push something from several months ago so hard. It's almost impossible to give a fair judgment when you're forced to rate something out of 5 and relatively speaking, this is not a 5/5 hero bar and is probably only 3/5 human. Since I can only give one rating, where would you suggest this lands?Xenomortis 11:57, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But it is a 5/5 hero bar... Heroes use it well (albeit with slight long-term energy problems, but fights shouln't last long enough for it to matter), and you don't seem to be coming to grips with the fact that the build is spamming low-recharge spells that hit for ~100 AoE damage each. And we've already said that the build should be considered a hero build, because the hero build is meta and the human build is not. You've yet to give a real reason as to why it shouldn't be a great build. -- Jai . -  15:13, July 19 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree; it isn't a 5/5 hero bar. You're allowed to agree and rate accordingly. I also disagree that it's within the top 4 hero bars I can run. - Xenomortis 16:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Jai, it's a 5/5 rating in your eyes. This is why more than one person rates. See? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 17:40, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and in the eyes of the "any more the eviscerate" dude, Shock Axe wasn't a 5/5 build. That doesn't mean he's anything but blatantly wrong. And Xeno, I'd love to see your top 7 heroes, because I don't see any builds besides SoS, Panic, and maybe SoGM/MM that I would rather run than an Illusion mes. -- Jai . -  19:13, July 19 2011 (UTC)

PvE Smiter
It's pretty meh as a player bar, I know, but unfortunately PvX doesn't seem to like vetting player builds purely for hero teams. TBH (offensive) Assassin's Promise and dagger spam are really the only thing that monks can do fairly well with heroes, but both of those have been trashed multiple times. QQ no good monk builds on here. -- Jai' s Computer -  14:23, January 12 2012 (UTC)
 * Even as a hero bar it's horrible; it can fill a role in a hero team, but under pretty particular circumstances and even then, it's almost certainly going to be the weakest hero in your team. Xenomortis 14:34, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Please provide more evidence.
I have not seen an ounce of it from you yet. -- Jai' s Computer -  15:21, January 16 2012 (UTC)
 * What evidence for what? - Xenomortis 15:32, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The stuff you've posted on recently. -- Jai' s Computer -  16:00, January 16 2012 (UTC)
 * That doesn't tell me what you mean by evidence. - Xenomortis 16:07, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Writing stuff that has stuff backing it up. "The damage is poor compared to what can be achieved." What build is that? Do you have any proof that it's actually lower damage than something else? "Hero builds that focus on pure damage are seldom effective." Why? It's much easier to slot utility/defense somewhere (because heroes use defensive builds better then offensive builds) than it is damage. "you've stacked multiple copies of a weak build..." A weak build is something that pumps out around 50 nearby AoE damage every second with a single skill? "in the hope the multiplicative boost makes up for so many shortcomings." What shortcomings? The energy management is fine, the damage is higher than nearly any build you can put on a player or hero, and there is still just as much room for utility on SF as there is on any other decent ele build. -- Jai' s Computer -  16:17, January 16 2012 (UTC)
 * And of course, your vote: "Can nearly spam a mediocre damage skill, nothing more," which is pretty much covered by what I've said above. -- Jai' s Computer -  16:18, January 16 2012 (UTC)

The SF ele dps analysis was a good read Xeno. What is your take on a water hero with Shatterstone? + are there any other worthwhile skills in water to make water viable? (assuming hero usage so no pve skills)  Chieftain   Alex  16:42, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what to make of it; it looks like some reasonable damage at a fair price, but the two second cast is a bit off putting. The real killer for me is the rest of Water Magic though; nothing in there looks particularly promising; Ice Spikes comes the closest to being decent; with that, Rust and Shatterstone you may have something worthwhile, but with those three and the necessary Energy skills, you're not left with much space for anything else; guess you can get in a couple of skills still. You won't have that much damage though. - Xenomortis 18:02, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Anet doesn't like how we play their game apparently. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 18:19, 16 January 2012 (UTC)