User talk:Selket Shadowdancer/A/R Doppleganger Spike

I like this idea. :O Railin  11:02, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * It's pretty safe to use too. The Doppleganger can't self heal, can't use the attack chain, etc. Selket Shadowdancer 11:03, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * you can't selfheal either though. And the doppleganger's autoattacks with bow or axe are pretty powerful too. I can't try it out for myself since I don't have a pve assassin. :( [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 11:04, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Vampiric Assault. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  11:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * You beat me to it, lol. Selket Shadowdancer 11:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Heheheh. Going all Skuld-like right here. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  11:08, 18 February 2008 (EST)

We'd probably be better off with a doppleganger guide, not unlike what exists on guildwiki since saving individual builds for a 30 second mission is kinda dumb. this is a good one however.Bob fregman 11:10, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * If you say it's good then I am truly honoured, lol. Selket Shadowdancer 11:13, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Where did the tags go? - Star Seeker  |  My talk  11:13, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * What tags? I didn't add any yet. Selket Shadowdancer 11:13, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Oh, you might wanna add some, then? - Star Seeker  |  My talk  11:14, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Done. Selket Shadowdancer 11:15, 18 February 2008 (EST)

You know, do you actually need the pet?

From the top of my head. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  11:19, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * An npc will know how to use Poison Tip, but they just spam pet attacks (as far as I know of.) [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 11:20, 18 February 2008 (EST)

The idea of this build is so that the Doppleganger cannot execute the spike. That's why you take the pet. Selket Shadowdancer 11:23, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Lol why not any/W and use frenzy healsig?-- Frans  11:23, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Because Doppleganger then has access to self healing. Selket Shadowdancer 11:25, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Are you really that dumb? healsig with 0 tactics is suicidal, frenzy added is uber suicidal dumbass.[[Image:Styxx_HL.jpg|19px]] Frans  11:29, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Less NPA please. Now you're stuck with a pointless self heal that you can't use wasting space on your skill bar. Note that this build is designed to be a guaranteed way for a Ranger or Assassin to beat the Doppleganger with MINIMAL risk. You have a full bar at your disposal that you CAN use, while the Doppleganger can use just one skill. Selket Shadowdancer 11:36, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * No, ur wrong, ur wasting 2 skills so every profession can use it and it is way stronger and faster.[[Image:Styxx_HL.jpg|19px]] Frans  11:40, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * My point is you don't need an entire build for only 2 professions (it's not even strong) while some skills can wtfown doppel anyway.[[Image:Styxx_HL.jpg|19px]] Frans  11:42, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Not even strong? WTF? This fucking owns Doppleganger! And like I said already, at MINIMAL RISK! Most people going for survivor with an Assassin would in their right mind take Ranger secondary (to attack from range) and this is ideally suited for such people. Remember this is designed with Survivor title in mind which means maximum safety is nessacary. Selket Shadowdancer 11:48, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Any/R build. Doppleganger can't use squat. Tah-dah! -- Guild of  Deals  11:23, 18 February 2008 (EST)


 * Doppleganger has access to a self heal. Selket Shadowdancer 11:24, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * With that build doppleganger could probably just auto attack you to death.Bob fregman 11:26, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Or dont take a weapon but go caster and the IAS skill applying cracked armour on urself. Frans  11:26, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Teh best way iz elemental resistance while being melee or physical resistance while being a castur Frans  11:28, 18 February 2008 (EST)

even better: Iron mist with anything but air magic and take high earth magic.-- Frans  11:32, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Cultist's fervor with 0 blood magic. Frans  11:36, 18 February 2008 (EST)

This Build
As i said before, this does not warrant its own article. I feel that this is a good way to kill doppleganger, it's both innovative and ver yeffective, able to get him on borth normal and hard mode. But as frans has said, there are tons of combos that works against doppleganger, and althought i like this build, saving them all s just dumb. I recommend making a doppleganger guide, like on guildwiki, to facilitate this general purpose.Bob fregman 11:41, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Ima do that ^^[[Image:Styxx_HL.jpg|19px]] Frans  11:43, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Disagree. If you have a combo that an Assassin or Ranger can use that is faster, stronger, and safer then feel free to post it. Selket Shadowdancer 11:51, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm against even a doppelganger guide. No one comes to PvX for help in defeating the Doppelganger. It's like coming to PvX for a full-length walkthrough, or a survivor title guide. -Shen 12:44, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I think alot of people are forgetting that this is aimed primarily at an Assassin/Ranger survivor and making it the safest way for them to farm Doppleganger for the 50k expereince reward without taking any unessacary risks. Sure there may be numerous ways to defeat Doppleganger, but none of them as far as I know are as safe, and fast as this. Selket Shadowdancer 13:01, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Here's the guide, have fun. PvX doesn't house doppelganger builds. If you're looking to get the survivor title, PvX won't help you there. That's what this is for. -Shen 13:12, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Funny, I thought PVX Wiki was made to document the best available builds for PvE and PvP usage. Tell me one good reason why this isn't one of them. Also, please show me in writing where it says PVX doesn't house Doppleganger builds. Selket Shadowdancer 13:29, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * For PvE usage-General PvE usage. As opposed to a specific part of PvE that takes minimal effort, that is in itself a category separate from farming, that has been covered by other sites. -Shen 13:33, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * You seem to fail to understand the whole point of this build being posted. earning 50k+ experience points towards your survivor title is a very appealing prospect and this build is aimed at aiding anyone who uses an Assassin in getting that. It's not a Survivor guide, it's not a Doppleganger guide. It's a simple, fast, extremely safe, and effective build, proven to work for what it's designed to do. PvX Wiki documents builds right? So there is no reason why this should not be documented when it excels in doing what it is designed to do, attempting to even give a reason is laughable and pretty much makes a mockery of what this site is for. Selket Shadowdancer 13:38, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I agree with you that this build is very effective at what it does. But when gwiki has a section on this, i just dont see why we'd maintain a build that is useful for liuterally 30 seconds.  I'm not opposed to making a guide, if the community so decides, but storing individual builds seems like a waste of space.Bob fregman 13:47, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm pretty sure that PvX wiki has it's own identity Bob. People come here to find builds, they go to other sites for guides. This = build not guide. Now as far as I'm aware not one person here opposes its effectiveness right? No one misunderstands the builds actual purpose? I'm pretty sure there is (or at least was) a build designed specifically to kill Shiro, so what makes this any different? Maybe you will only use it once, but it sure is damn worth using it once for when it keeps you and your Survivor title with that added +50k experience safe and sound. :) Selket Shadowdancer 13:53, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * What happens if they didn't go A/R? How about when they could care less for the survivor title. You're catering to a very small group here. It's impractical for it to be anything but a guide. -Shen 13:56, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * The build to kill shiro is my precedent here, we deleted it for being too specific.Bob fregman 14:12, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Deleting a build for being too specific is unjust in my opinion, especially if it actually works and does what it is designed to do. Size of the group catered for is not what this build should be judged on, hell you can throw that logic at almost any build on this wiki that utilises two specific proffessions. If people care less about their survivor title then that has no bearing on this builds effectiveness because this is for people who DO care for their survivor title. As for proffession choices, find a guide, most will advise going A/R as it keeps you at range with pretty good defensive skills, this just builds on that. It is simply posted for those that have made that choice and need a worthwhile build to help them gain their 50k experience points considering other choices sugested already on this page would obviously be unavailable to them. Selket Shadowdancer 14:15, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Not being A/R matters if you haven't ascended yet, correct? -Shen 14:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Correct, though I don't see any point being made out of that which hasn't already been established. This is a specific build as already noted numerous times. As I noted above, most people going for survivor with an Assassin will do forward planning, alot do go A/R for the better defensive capabilities and lessened risk. This build compliments those people as it most definitely did me. Selket Shadowdancer 14:24, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Two mutually exclusive points you've condensed into one. -Shen 14:28, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Which in no way affect this builds effectiveness in any way, shape, or form. Remember you are judging a build by its effectivness, universatility, and innovation, not by the choice someone makes when they roll a new character. This would easily score high marks in at least 2 of the forementioned. Selket Shadowdancer 14:42, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Nowhere am I debating the effectiveness of this build. Only its practicality on this site and as a separate article. -Shen 14:43, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Then maybe that debate is better taken up with an admin as they are the only people to truly have jurisdiction on any such topics I would assume. Selket Shadowdancer 14:47, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Build Guide
Idea. Make a new doppleganger guide for PvX and put this build in it for assassin tactics. Railin 13:42, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Yes
Railin 14:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * If it comes down to this happening then no reason not to seems we have guides for the following and more already on PvX Wiki: Zaishen Trapping, Norn Fighting Tournament, Death Leveling pets. Selket Shadowdancer 14:53, 18 February 2008 (EST)


 * (signature here)

No

 * For the same reason we don't offer a Survivor guide/PvE walkthroughs. Not to say this poll matters, or anything. -Shen 14:46, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * There are actually PvE guides on PvX Wiki, check the guides portal. Selket Shadowdancer 14:54, 18 February 2008 (EST)


 * Extremely easy to do. Anybuild that can't be run on heroes basically can't run on the Doppleganger. Only 1 mission out of (I think) 23 in prophecies. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  00:27, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Testing
Seems no one is debating against this builds effectiveness I am moving this into testing. While it's practicality on the site might be questionable and is up for debate above, please remember that's not what you are voting about and any votes regarding practicality in that regard will be appealed against. Also this, as already noted, is a specific build so please remember you are not voting about the proffession choices a player makes when rolling a new character either. Selket Shadowdancer 15:59, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm sorry but i have to agree with the others. There's no doubt that it works, and well (pertty genius tbh, using a combo that he can't start), but its just not needed here. If i were to vote on just the effectiveness and how well it works, I'd easily 5-5-5 it. the problem is that there's no real reason to keep a build for something that is incredibly easy to do.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:24, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Move
To my userspace please. It's pointless completely destroying a build that clearly works. Selket Shadowdancer 03:05, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Nevermind I figured it out myself, I think. :/ Selket Shadowdancer 11:26, 21 February 2008 (EST)