Archive talk:N/any Minion Master

BoM needs to be the first skill in the chain, otherwise the hero won't use it properly. A good replacement is to set the hero to N/Mo and add Heal Area or Healing Ring in place of BoM - user Nightly 27.06.2007

User 70.51.172.163, I RB'ed your edits because this is a N/any build, and the changes you made to the main skill bar already existed further down the page under the N/Mo variant. - Krowman    19:01, 30 June 2007 (CEST)

Why is this using three minion spells that all have long recharges? Flesh Golem I get, but why both Shambling and Vampiric? Makes raising an army much too slow. One should be switched to Fiend/Horror/Minions. 76.89.84.136 00:27, 18 January 2008 (EST)


 * It did use Animate Bone Fiend until Nov 30th when an anonymous user changed it to Vampiric Horror. As the Variants section already suggests replacing fiend with vampiric for more healing, I've changed it back Bonsai nine 03:56, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * Fiends is far too energy intensive for the little benefit it provides over horrors. The recharge really isn't that long; be patient and make sure you have a bunch of half recharge mods. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 03:59, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Farming
I fail to see how this is a farmer. As part of a farming team, yes, but not by itself. "As part of a team" = PvE general. Editing to reflect this. Discuss if you disagree. -- Armond Warblade 02:12, 24 July 2007 (CEST)

AB
I see this used in AB like every game,a way to counter them?Well im thinking scourge healing, put it on some minnions and u can prity much kill the necro in the next blood of the mster.- Lisark 02:17, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Balthazar's Aura, any old AoE, Verata's Aura, etc... - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   02:18, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Kill them with big axe. Counters anything, and everything. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 02:19, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Beware of Dark Bond. Iz gud. Rending touch it or something. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 04:55, 14 August 2007 (CEST)

an axe ^_^- Lisark 18:55, 16 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Banishing Strike. GODLY. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 03:10, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

o rly?- Lisark 04:24, 17 August 2007 (CEST)


 * ya rly--Coloneh 01:13, 10 September 2007 (CEST)

Flesh Golem
My necromancer doesn't have access to the skill Animate Flesh Golem, so would it also work if I change it into another Animate Skill? Like Bone Horror or Vampiric Horror?
 * Probably, just not as well. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 17:45, 23 September 2007 (CEST)

Insignias
What do u use? since im confused after soul reaping nerf about energy. If i should take mm insignias to get massive armor and dmg reduction + dark bond. Or go with Radiant for 8 extra energy? or is it 7 energy lol :P? Jahora 16:14, 23 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Minus 1 energy (feet) lol. Jahora 16:16, 23 September 2007 (CEST)


 * If you have to ask, always give it a couple tries without any insignias. That'll give you a chance to figure out if you want more health, more energy, more armor, or whatever. I generally go for radiant, as once dark bond is up you really won't have to worry about taking damage unless you're up against orosen/an ele boss, in which case the monk should put prot spirit on you. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 17:44, 23 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Guess ill take Radiant after all. Havent tested as you said, but in most PvE cases u always have a monks attention. Although, in PvP, like AB, mm insignias might be a wise choice since you are often targeted by most ppl. But on the other hand, you do have Infuse condition AND dark bond...or i personally do. So it might not be a need...but idk, i dont really have any knowledge on how effective mm insignias is in the long run. Jahora 22:27, 23 September 2007 (CEST)


 * AB is PvP? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:02, 24 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Well, it is crowded with some stupid NPC shrine protectors (and sometimes ppl equally stupid) lol. But the main part is ppl i guess. All most of the time targeting the mm if one is present. Jahora 19:46, 24 September 2007 (CEST)

Optional Slot?
The variants section talks about an optional slot ... there isn't one. This probably should be corrected but I'm not sure what to. Any thoughts? Bonsai nine 09:22, 16 October 2007 (CEST)
 * The rez is optional for AB.

N/D MM
Please if any changes are to be made to the N/D variant please list them here. Thanks. Unreal Havoc 02:09, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

I have changed the minions as Bone Horror and Bone Fiends (as originally suggested) mainly because they have the quickest recharge time and have higher health than Bone Minions. If you disagree please discuss here before changing, thanks. Unreal Havoc 02:11, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

Bone Horrors are bad. They are not as efficient tank wise, and body block less enemies. Minion AR is trivial. Terror 02:13, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * The correct statement here is "MMs in PvP is bad. Don't be bad at the game and run one" imo. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:31, 28 October 2007 (CET)

Minions is bad. It's only good for minion bombing. Lord Belar 02:14, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

No. It is active e management, and dos minions are better at bb mobs of 20+. If minions die, then so will a horror. AR doesn't matter, thus quantity makes minions the sup choice. Terror 02:16, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * How do Bone Horrors tank or body block worse when they have more health than Minions? The point of them having high health is for you to survive better as they take any damage and any conditions you take, no Mnions = dead Minion Master. Energy managment in PVE is fine with Soul Reaping at 9, can even add a rune if you really need to. Unreal Havoc 02:19, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * You can't have 20 minions. Also, a minion dies much faster than a horror. Lord Belar 02:21, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I think he meant enemy mobs, which begs the question, what would last longer against a mob of 20? 10 Minions? Or 10 Horrors? Energy management is pointless to discuss as you don't gain anymore or any less. Unreal Havoc 02:37, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Minions are actually okay in large mob fights because you get a lot more corpses and build up 10 minions more easily. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet •  t  /  c  02:52, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Maybe, but in this particular version I feel that Minions would be less beneficial. They don't leave exploitable corpses, do less damage, and can't take as much, which is important if you're using Dark Bond and Infuse Condition as a way to minimise damage. It's an option maybe for sure, but I feel that Horrors are the better choice in my opinion. Unreal Havoc 02:57, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

Main Bar changes
Does everyone feel that the main bar is the staple MM build? I'm seeing more and more people using the N/D version these days in PVE and most I've spoken to seem to prefer it over the original bar in the N/Any build. Your thoughts on this as the main bar?

[build prof=necro/derv deathm=12+1+3 soulre=9 bloodm=5 earthp=8][animate flesh golem][animate bone horror][animate bone fiend][infuse condition][dark bond][mystic regeneration][blood of the master][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]

I already know its in variants, I've had this discussion and debate long and hard all night, but I feel this is superior to the original posted build. What is everyone elses thoughts on this? Unreal Havoc (talk *pvxcontribs ) 04:18, 28 October 2007 (CET)


 * I always thought that you would have monks in your party. I could be mistaken though. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 05:32, 28 October 2007 (CET)


 * It's a PuG, a third of all monks are smiters and another 60% are crap. And the good ones like it when there's one less person to pay attention to. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 10:12, 29 October 2007 (CET)

Thankyou for your thoughts, yes you do have monks in your party but realistically they should be concentrating on those that need it most, the melee classes. This gives the MM better survivability and gives the group less concern about their MM dying and having to deal with a horde of minions aswell as an enemy mob. Unreal Havoc  13:08, 29 October 2007 (CET)


 * If you want a PvE N/D build, why not add PvE tags to Archive:N/D Heir to the Master as it's pretty similar to your build. Bonsai nine 13:41, 29 October 2007 (CET)


 * Good idea, but I still feel this is superior to the standard build offered here and it uses a different Elite slot to Heir to the Master. However I won't dismiss that idea entirely. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]Unreal Havoc  14:57, 29 October 2007 (CET)

Stop screwing with the build
You guys need to stop messing with the build, and changing little things the no one agrees on. Nuff said. Avatar Kuzon 19:36, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Bone Fiends / Vampiric Horrors
Okay people, we are now at risk of an edit/revert war here ....

Bone Fiends - 1 Level 18 ranged attacker, 5 second recharge, 25 energy

Vampiric Horror - 1 Level 18 melee attacker, 15 second recharge, 15 energy

- Bone fiends are more spamable as they recharge quicker, but they do cost more

- Vampiric horrors provide some healing but you can't make as many as quick

Personally I don't think the healing effect of the vampiric horrors is worth it when you already have signet of lost souls, dark bond and taste of death, also vampiric horrors are listed as a variant. My opinion, therefore is that the build should use bone fiends.

Bonsai nine 03:33, 17 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Fiends > Vampirics. Their ranged damage means they don't body block each other from attacking and they attack the fastest. As a Minion Master using BotM as your heal, you shouldn't be anywhere near any damage. - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  05:24, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Blood Magic
hey i just changed it from 3+1 to just 3. that rune spot could be put to better use. 2 extra seconds of dark bond isnt worth it; better to have 2 more energy

jagged bones
are jagged bones better than flesh golem on pve heroes?
 * Not since the nerf no. Flesh Golem does nice damage and is constantly up, regardless of how many corspes you got access to. Jagged Bones is best for minion bombing. God  box    04:54, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Then again, you wouldn't want to be using Flesh Golems (or MMs that rely on the base damage of their Minions, so OoU is still good) in PvE where the monsters are above level 26 because of armor. So in Hard Mode, you should be running OoU or a Bomber, anyway. Heroes are amazing with Jagged Bones, Death Nova, Dwayna's Sorrow and the such, so running this particular MM on a Hero is almost pointless when he could pwn as a bomber such as Build:N/any Minion Bomber Hero or Archive:Rt/N Explosive Growth Minion Bomber (with Jagged Bones over Flesh Golem). I've run something like Build:N/any Order of Undeath on my MM Hero, but a real player would likely be better with OoU. -Mike 15:57, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Archive
Heroes should be Bombing, and players should be using OoU. This build's damage relies too heavily on low AL, and it doesn't offer much offensively or defensively compared to a Bomber or OoU MM. Imo, Jagged Bones and OoU (and maybe Icy Veins or Discord) are the only worthwile Elites for an MM. ــмıкε  нaшк  12:38, 8 November 2008 (EST)
 * Only applies in hm, nm minions do big damage-- Shadow Relyk [[Image:Relyk srs.gif|19px]] 19:41, 28 November 2008 (EST)