Archive talk:R/P Arenas RaO Spear Pressure

Viciously stolen from this -- Frosty  05:00, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Poisonous Bite>Apply cuz of energy imo. Brandnew.  05:09, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * apply is better, hit everyone on their team with a spear and spread poison fast imo
 * Brandnew :< -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 06:59, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Apply is so much better than bite. This build is terrible without monks and a synergized team. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 09:15, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Oops, apply is better indeed, fuck me running :> Brandnew.  12:33, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Energy Management?
Eating up 15 energy every 13 seconds means no energy Jonas 11:55, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Scavenger is in variants, but I'm not sure what you'd switch out for it. Spaggage 12:06, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * zealous wep. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 12:27, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * its called using zealous. if you cant manage energy here you're bad. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 12:54, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Well..you could go poisonous bite. But that's too easily removed. Why would you really need an IMS when you're using a ranged weapon...? I mean, between reapplying RaO every 13 seconds, and apply every 24, even with zealous, you're going pretty hard on energy. That's just me, and don't go, "LOLOLORS UR A NOOB RAO." Cause that's all I ever run on my ranger anymore.  Mr.   Big  15:15, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * 33 IAS on a spear=throwing out barbed every 2 seconds. the 25 IMS doesnt do much, but thats immaterial. if RaO wrre only 33% IAS, people would still run it. also, 25 IMS on the pet does a lot for the kitty's dps. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 16:35, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * so basically rao is so imba you can slap anything on the bar and it still works?
 * No. It synergizes with Hammers and Spears a lot and not much else. Spears for the spam, hammers for the whole being kd'd 1/3 of the time and dazed constantly thing. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 18:48, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * And it's damn good with Axes. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   18:50, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Faggy though -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 20:00, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Pressure for beginners
Applying pressure means one thing: survive longer than the enemy. You won't survive if you can't heal yourself. So either spike/nuke them or make sure your build survives. Bastian 07:02, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * lol? -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 07:10, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * ummmmm have u ever heard of this thing i think they call a monk?Whiplash513 09:16, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * wth. Pressure means exactly what it sounds like: pressuring... God  box    09:22, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Pressuring means there backline will collapse due to the damage+condition/hexes ur outputting on their team, so you can score kills Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 14:46, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * soulbind is awesome for pressure cause the monks like OMFG I CANT HEAL PEOPLE....help [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  14:49, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Protective Was Kaolai. /drop. OSHT. Brandnew.  14:54, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I didn't assume you were so naive to count on a backline in RA, CM and AB, sorry. Bastian 16:17, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If you don't get a backline in RA/CM it's more about who can get the kills quickly, since you will most likely die, and in AB you can choose your partners... -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 16:21, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * OK, finally the discussion is at a serious level. In RA/CM, you can get along quite well with something like a BA Ranger, which has condition removal, decent healing and the ability to outpressure any enemy. The pressure with the BA comes from frequent interrupts and constant degen. To quote myself (a very popular thing among scientists ;) ), it survives longer than the enemy, it's a good pressure build. In AB you can sure choose your backline, but that's the ideal case. The target group of PvXWiki clearly aren't professional PvP guilds, but bad or beginning players, other ones can make their builds themselves (I'm exaggerating a bit, but I wanted to make sure everyone gets the point :P). Those people normally don't choose their teams carefully, or if they find a decent PUG, it's unlikely they'll be together the entire game, since no TS/Vent is being used. Thus, every pressure (!) character submitted for AB should be autonomous, in my opinion. About getting kills quickly in RA/CM - sure, I agree, there's no point in saving lives in CM :) But this build isn't really great at killing stuff quickly, it more provides a good constant dps, but that's not what you're looking for. Bastian 16:54, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * No more CM. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 17:03, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow you are just horrible (Exaggeration). All rangers pressure because they're suppose to. And they r fking hard to kill. You don't need to explain game mechanics to people on the wiki, we already know all that crap. It isn't for killing stuff, it's for making it easier to kill stuff, pretty much by breaking down the backline. Pressure is useless in RA/CM/AB because enemies can be easily killed from raw power. Pressure is constant DPS rather than spike which is high DPS. Don't misinterpret it or make it out for more than what it is. What Godliest said, Pressure means exactly what it sounds like: pressuring-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 17:14, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * "Pressure is useless in RA/CM/AB". You're realising you're talking on the discussion page of a build called "R/P RaO Spear Pressure" with AB/CM/AB tag? :D Bastian 17:18, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * CM got removed, I didn't see you post Frosty, sorry :) Bastian 17:19, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * This works in AB since it has an ims and can snare and basically degenerative solo'ers to death, in RA, if you have a monk, this will basically rape the enemy team, every person with cripple and 7 degen is crazy, and in TA well, yea, organized group makes this even better. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 17:22, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Bastian, you're hilariously arrogant for a total shitter. you're lofty assumption of superiourity is lost on us when you use the term "discussion at a serious level" and you're talking about RA. You should go back to presearing. Or not be an arrogant shitter. Also, please dont talk about pvxwiki and its "target audience" and act as if you know what "professional" players use, do, or know. if you want to any of those things, talk to your shitter friends, or guru, but if mokone is still active dont be surprised if your posts get deleted. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 19:39, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm very charmed by your interest in me personally. But I feel this discussion should be more about what I said and not how I said it. However, I gladly receive and answer any commendation or criticism on my own discussion page. Coming back to the topic, I don't think this build will be able to kill any "Great" rated AB/RA build in a 1on1 fight, if played by equally skilled players. In group fights, there still are better ways to play a spear-pet-ranger in my opinion, if this restriction is necessary. If not, there are far better ways to pressure, but I don't need to explain game mechanics to people, as I learned from Frosty (who actually is the only person in this discussion that I take serious for contributing seriously...). One last piece of advice for all the people who felt so offended by my horrible, exaggerating, arrogant way of talking: Don't worry too much about how people say stuff, but what they say, one way or the other. I was damn right with everything I said and if you were really interested in making a good build, you wouldn't care so much about my bad character but more about my contribution to the build. Bastian 12:28, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * 1v1 this would produce decent dps (7 Degen with 33% IAS on both you and your pet is actually powerful), agreed that in RA if you do not get a monk this won't shine because killing shit quickly can win games, but when you don't have a monk it is generally known that you won't get passed 3 or 4 (you can get lucky though), but when you do get a monk you can afford to spread your degen and make the enemy team collapse. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 12:32, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Long story short: you will win with a monk in RA. No idea how this was relevant to this build though... God box    12:51, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, I agree, but I dislike the idea of having to hope for a monk, so I support the building and use of autonomous characters in ra. If 3 characters have a decent amount of healing/cond-remove or anything, a hybrid ritualist should be enough. Now it's just sad that people, if you think logically, have to quit when they get into a group without a monk. By supporting characters like that awesamesauce rt/p with spear and weapon of remedy or at least builds with a healsig and/or cond.-remove, this trend could be countered, in an ideal world :) Bastian 12:58, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I support people running monks in RA. God  box    13:02, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Thank you Bastian 15:30, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Pressure for experts
Discuss Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 13:10, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

This build just got JAXED "Energy is good." Dutchess of Rose aka  lukejohnson  - talk 13:19, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

I say the truth, and the truth only :<. - Jax010 // healingp=0 13:23, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Zealous covers it. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 13:26, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * not when ur name is JAX Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 13:35, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Zealous doesn't cover 15 energy every 13 seconds and an additional 9 every 24, unless you're not using your attack skill or having to rez your pet at all. 1.529 energy per second is what RaO + AP comes out to, and zealous at 1 energy per second + .66 regen just covers that cost. ups math is gud. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] ツ cedave   (☆contributions☆)  12:24, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Or play the game. --F rosty 18:21, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Are you f'ing srs? E-management is HORRIBLE. I tried it at the Temple; drained within 30 seconds or less! Scavenger's a must! The build variant posted is not prime due to lack of energy management. Not to mention I'd like to be able to STAY on vamp for more DPS, not Zealous. --BlazingBurdy 00:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can't manage energy on this with a Zealous spear you're bad. --☭Guild *talk* 00:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can't manage energy on this with a Vampiric spear the build's bad. --BlazingBurdy 04:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Considering you are pumping out 7 degen to every person on the other team you don't really need the vamp. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 07:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Keep in mind that, given the tags it's meant for, condition removal is far too common. Most times, it benefits the opposing team if they have a ff necro. Rt's are notorious for bringing condition removal as well. Monks even bring draw conditions from time to time, negating the possible dps you try to carry out. Also, 10 Spear mastery's a big turn-off to me (even at 33% IAS both you and pet, the stats are too low in my book. Sitting on Zealous is bad (sac's vamp action). I'd like to be able to sit on vamp throughout matches (don't know about you). I tested this in the arenas as is (bad e-management even with Zealous). I tried other variants to include Scavenger's Strike, still doesn't make enough difference in my book. --BlazingBurdy 22:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Meta
This still meta? 193.190.253.144 11:52, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * hexway --[[Image:Tai_Sig.png]] 22:54, 19 March 2009 

Stunning
The stunning degen spammer seems to be much better than this as it has no energy problems and is able to actually use maiming on recharge. Also is running RaO worth losing daze lock, energy, and a spike skill? I mean tigers is a constant IAS anywaysI heal if you shut it 02:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Noticed the same, the daze one can actually nearly solo a monk. It's way better (I think great worthy). IMS doesn't matter on spearchucking anyway. Masterbow 18:25, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

RaO Spear
when i read the title i was like WTF and then i looked at the build and was like ZOMGWTF. my question is who the hell uses RaO with a spear? pretty pointless oO you ain't chasing targets enuf for taking an elite IMS.
 * To be fair, it's a 33% IAS for both you and your pet as well, and the pet benefits from the IMS. Of course, this was originally part of a TA team and just got tagged for other areas since it worked well enough in them. Might warrant an archive now. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 00:54, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Archive?
This bar looks expensive with maintaining both Apply + RaO :/ also it appears to offer a lower level of pressure than Build:R/W PvP Rampage as One Axe? <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  11:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing this isn't still good since it has both comfort animal and charm animal, but I don't know much. 209.33.197.183
 * In PvP you need both. Charm animal so your pet will be with you and Comfort to res/heal it.
 * The energy has always been tough, it's nothing new, need better reasons to archive it I think. EasyPom 10:48, 18 February 2012 (UTC)