Archive talk:Team - 7 Hero Racway

Hayda, Morgahn and...?--GWPirate 20:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Damn. Autopilot copy/paste fucked me over. But this would be amazing if you could use 3 paras. Maybe they'll add one, but doubtful. -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  20:17, November 29 2010 (UTC)

and the new hero in the end of gw beyond, obviously... his name will be holy shit, and he'll have the ability to change primary profession when player needs it most...
 * did everyone forget razah can change profession?? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.37.182.28 (talk &bull; contribs) 13:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC).
 * No, see the section below on Razah. Also, please sign your comments by adding ~ after your post. Thanks. Dzjudz sig.png talk 16:15, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

ur copy paste thing is an ongoing issue, mate, uve done that for rit team, mesmer team, and pretty much with all profs that only have 2 heros... who ure trying to fool, urself maybe?? but i have to go, barcelona-real madrid is on tv now
 * Because all the decent hero builds are already on PvX, since heroes are pretty limited in what they can use effectively. There's no need for much other than copypasta when making hero builds, and I'm not claiming anything otherwise. I'm just making them because no one else has bothered to (all but Sab, Discord, and Spiritway were horribly dated before I started cleaning up the hero section). -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  20:30, November 29 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you need any other hero things then? Falrach 21:13, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, especially 2-mans and stuff like these. But no, they're not all that important, which is why not one has gotten around to updating shit like this (note, just updated). -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  21:44, November 29 2010 (UTC)

Psh, Mending refrain is a cool guy, eh heals people and doesn't afraid of anything.--GWPirate 22:02, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

So even though I never play GW anymore, I'm going to put in some effort into figuring out how much damage this does... Assuming OoP is up 6/9 of the time considering how heroes typically maintain skills Assuming Barbs is up 1/2 of the time considering the long cast time Assuming 1 extra adrenaline per hit considering DF and MoF Assuming Anthem of Envy being used every 8 seconds considering cast time and needing adrenaline for other skills Assuming crits on 3/4 of attacks considering base crits and (guessed) average use of GftE Modifiers: 1/1 of time spent attacking for Imbagon 3/4 of time spent attacking for Commandigon 1/2 of time spent attacking for each Motigon Autoattacks: 1 attack per 1.3125 seconds, .7619 seconds per attack 20.5 on non-crits, 38 on crits ~33.5 damage per hit on average before buffs +10 per hit from OoP +6 per hit from Barbs ~49.5 damage per hit on average after buffs ~38 damage per second spent attacking Average autoattack DPS from all paragons considering time spent attacking: ~104 Attack skills: Simply assuming 1 adrenaline of every two gained to be used for attack skills ~2.3 damage per hit from Wild Strike (times 2  ~8 damage per hit from Blazing Spear including burning   ~2.5 damage per hit from Stunning Strike   Vicious Strike hits once every 10 seconds  15.1 damage per hit added total   11.5 DPS before vicious    Vicious adds 3.2 DPS  Total attack skill DPS: ~15 Total DPS: ~119

That's also before spirits (which are affected by Anthem of Envy), minions (affected by GftE and Barbs), and Death Nova. Also, the DPS would probably be somewhat higher in long-ish fights, because Barbs will be up 100% of the time after it's put on somebody. So that probably means that stuff will die in 4-6 seconds with DW.

I also have no fucking clue why I just wasted so much of my time on something that means so fucking little, for a game I never play. Boredom really sucks. -.- -- Jai . -  22:15, January 13 2011 (UTC)

This looks fucking amazing on paper, but I have a feeling it'll collapse somewhat easily in practice. There's a shitload of party heals and damage mitigation: SY, TntF, +10 regen on everybody, two Ballads of Resto, a Chorus, Incoming/FB, Enfeebling, and PwK. For direct heals, there's Empathic, MBaS, Spirit Light, and two copies of Finale. Now, there's three 4adren shouts in the party (which is more like 2 adren with Dark Fury, and 1 for the Imbagon), so Finale should do a hell of a lot of healing, but it still won't be a direct heal. I'm just hoping that SY, TntF, Enfeebling, and a single Prot Spirit will slow damage down enough to make it not an issue, but I'm a tad skeptical. Any ideas? -- Jai . -  03:00, January 27 2011 (UTC)
 * I think having a couple more spot heals might help to keep up with potential burst damage, but if everything's damage is reduced to nil and you have insane party healing I'm not sure if that's really necessary. I really wish there was a good elite to put on the first rit, but I can't think of anything worthwhile, aside from maybe Pain of Disenchantment (you'll want enchantment removal in some areas to speed things up). I'm not really sure what else this build could need though, seeing as 3 heroes is often plenty overkill already. Also, I've almost always gone into hard mode with much less defense than this, so I'm having a really hard time seeing this team wipe. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 03:43, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Heroes are not smart enough to attack the same target and use skills when they're available, you dps would be like ~70 max lol-- Relyk  talk  05:32, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Control+Space will get them attacking the same thing. Discordway wouldn't work if you couldn't do that. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 15:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * orly?-- Relyk  talk  19:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I also forgot about EBSoH, which will raise the DPS by like 20 or something. And even if they did attack different targets (which they won't) only a small amount of damage would be lost because Barbs is the only thing that isn't ally-targetted. -- Jai . -  20:11, January 27 2011 (UTC)

fix the
PoD and SoS bars Minion  01:41, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Care to elaborate? -- Jai . -  01:44, March 4 2011 (UTC)
 * Going to guess Life -> Recuperation & something instead of Destruction - perhaps Signet of Lost Souls/Masochism. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px]] Chieftain  Alex  01:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

If someone wouldn't mind writing this all out, that'd be cool. If not, and this gets trashed, just move it back to my userspace. -- Jai . -  01:30, March 18 2011 (UTC)

needs more splinter :(-- Brandnew. 10:14, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree, tbh. I had a second channeling rit, but I changed it to the SoGM. I figured it might need the extra defense from the spirit wall since I had to give up the MM and whatnot. You could always switch the SoGM's attributes around to get 10 or 14 in channeling for Splinter. Also/Or, I could put Prot Spirit on one of the motigons (with like a 6-spec or something) and put SW on the necro. I'll see if I can figure something out after I get back from class. -- Jai . -  14:02, April 22 2011 (UTC)

Better now, I think. Two Splinters, both MM and spirits, Anthem of Envy alone does 288 fucking +damage (192 from the spirits, 96 from paras), etc. -- Jai . -  21:07, April 23 2011 (UTC)

This is what I have been running...with a few optional slots its fairly standard as far as builds go though since I haven't really messed around with it much.59.167.157.223 04:53, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * They're almost the same except where you have an SS with splinter wep and an orders derv, I have an orders necro with curses and an SoS rit with spirits. The main reason I went for the necro orders instead of the derv is because this already has party healing coming out of its ears, so I decided to go for bar compression. Because of that I fit in 5 extra spirits, which will equate to 120 extra damage every time Anthem of Envy triggers. -- Jai . -  22:45, April 25 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, is there anything I could change out for the communing spirits that would even come close to the same amount of effectiveness? They aren't exactly essential, but just about everything else that might be need is already covered (prot, curses, blood, command). The only thing useful might be smite for Smite Condition/Hex, but hex and condition removal are already mostly under control as well. Thoughts? -- Jai . -  23:01, April 25 2011 (UTC)

meh...
Stunning Strike is necessary. Incoming sucks. -- God  Kamil  11:01, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think its necessary, sure does in some area's though but incoming most likely is overkill not to mention unless you micro it hero's have a bad habit of stacking both it and fall back at the same time.59.167.157.223 15:02, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I mostly just needed something to chain every 10 secs or so outside of battle to keep Mending Refrain up. I mean, if you're attentive enough you could chain FB on the command and TNtF yourself, and that would work fine. But Incoming + FB is so sexy, even if you have to micro it. Of course, Mending Refrain might not even be worth it in a lot of cases, since there's already so much party healing. I'm open to suggestions. -- Jai . -  16:53, April 26 2011 (UTC)
 * drop mending refrain for never surrender; drop we shall return on commandogon. make elite optional for stunning spear, incoming, and cruel spear. put heals on sos bar instead of trying to spirit spam.-- Relyk  talk  17:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * K. Why? K. But 4 extra spirits means +96 damage (not including the spirit damage eiher) every time Anthem of Envy is cast, and more meat shields is always good. -- Jai . -  17:25, April 26 2011 (UTC)

What about this? Double Command instead of double Motivation. Three GftE's might be a little much though. Maybe replace it on the Imbagon.

-- Jai . -  17:35, April 26 2011 (UTC)

Razah
Since Razah can change his primary profession, can we add him as a paragon? Five paragons could be cool. 62.201.142.29 15:25, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Unneeded. you'll end up with both more damage and more defense if you keep him as a spirit spammer. -- Jai . -  15:32, May 5 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I thought inspiration resto ritualist, not the spirit spammer. My goal is to approach the paraway team.62.201.142.29 15:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So, you are relying on the paragons for heals entirely then, or do you want to make other adjustments? Dzjudz sig.pngtalk 15:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The build is changed anyway. And again, losing a rit hero for another paragon won't be worth it. -- Jai . -  16:07, May 5 2011 (UTC)

Wait What
It's odd that 2-man Racway is great and 7-hero racway is good. I suppose this is a little heavy on the spirits. But tbh just take 2-hero racway and replace the 2nd person slot with a hero that fits and you have a "great" version of this. Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava}   05:03, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither should be in great really. Racway lacks damage compared to other setups (the upside being that you should never, ever die). --  Toraen   talk  05:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * By other setups, do you mean, like, discordway? I've seen racway run well when coupled with dual mesmer, one having Barbs. You get quite a bit of single-target damage. The advantage of 7H racway - that is, being a SY spammer with triple hero paragons (2 of which are motivation) - is that finale of restoration procs so much that, as long as you can heal the initial burst damage, everything about 5 seconds in is breezy; this means you can free up what would be normally be used as healer heroes and replace them with utility and damage. It's tricky, and I've renewed interest in the past few hours at attempting to figure it out (long time on pawned^2), but it is possible. Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava}  [[Image:They're_On_Fire_Panda.jpg|19px]] 06:58, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Not an advantage when you can already get by in most areas with a single healer and ST rit these days, without an Imbagon. Nothing tricky about it.-- Relyk 19:49, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Volley paragon
Change (some of) the paragons to volley paragons: change spear mastery to bow and give them volley + other bow skill. = More aoe

Open player proffession?
It seems to me through the advent of 7 hero teams and generally more efficient heros, that the extra defense an Imbagon provides over any other physical that can spam "SY!" (namely "TNTF!") sisn't as necessary as it once was. Perhaps an update to the article with an optional player build or two? Any vetted melee build should work, although these builds I think would be of particular note. It's probably not as efficient as say, running RoJway on a frontliner, although I guess it does provide people with another option that requires little micro (if any at all), and lets you just faceroll through PvE tanking the shit out of everything.

However, in the case of this build it provides huge buffs for the para heros through IH + EBSoH and can take advantage of Splinter with Volley which can partially make up for the lack of AoE the build has. I'd definitely suggest listing this as a player bar variant. Then again it's pve, and who even runs this anyway. PewPew  QQ   18:44, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Racway is only viable for Imbagons, you're better off running RoJway or 7-Hero Player Support in all other cases. The fact that Paragons suck in PvE and Dagger Spammer is usually preferred doesn't help either =/ Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 20:06, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Tbh, I'm not even sure why this page was created after the 7 hero update. The imbagon's strength (for general PvE) was to carry mediocre henchies.  With 7h, party survivability is less of an issue, and while there are still appropriate areas in which to run an imbagon, you'd be better off rolling with a more offense-oriented build for much of PvE. AegisDok 20:22, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Wanna trash this bro? <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 20:44, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Likely because all of the other 3-Hero builds got expanded into 7-man teams, and Jai wanted something to do tbh. Also "who even runs this anyway". It was just an idea as it seemed a little limited for a 7H build to require a specific player build, especially just for general use. It's honestly pretty fun to shout through the game tanking the shit out of multiple Sandstorm/SF eles, and I didn't notice a particular difference in playing it over 7HPS or RoJway as a Ranger, which is why I mentioned it.
 * Also there's a difference between being only being viable for a specific build, and being designed for a specific build. PewPew   QQ   23:42, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I was bored. Also, requiring a specific profession for 7 hero builds is fine because you're only requiring one person to be a certain profession. Others can just ignore it. The problem comes when you need multiple people to be specific professions. -- Jai . -  00:49, October 11 2011 (UTC)

Spear of Fury
As player paragon need so much adrenaline, why to not use PvE only Kurzick/Luxons skill Spear of Fury. As i use this skill always on my para, i decided to use it here too. agira.
 * As you can manage adrenaline without it, it's not really worth dropping EBSoH for. It is a great variant instead of using EBSoH.-- Relyk 09:55, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

A note to people using this build
Stop. There are far better alternatives nowadays that are equally safe without sacrificing so much speed. Triple Mesmer + Triple Discord is one of these solutions. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 10:33, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Any against just deleting this? No reason to run it and the creator of the build himself has stated it's pretty awful. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 03:46, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It'll be handled when the grace period is up. As is, you can't reach it from the good/great/meta pages and that's enough until then. -- Toraen   confer  06:14, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks toraen. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 06:20, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree with archiving this build. It's pretty only way to have fun playing pseudo paraway in the PvE. Why we direct all of the players to use those meta builds like mesmers or discords. It stopped being fun,really. You can own everything with "meta bars",but what about people that actually want to play something different than meta bars. PvE just is not that fun when you can own everything afking while your triple mesmers/discords own things. And racway is pretty effective too. If you really must delete this page then bring back 3 Hero racway then,it was in great category if I remember good.. Triss 00:02, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Seeing as fun is subjective and people come here for effective bars I don't think we can start keeping builds based on how fun they are. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 00:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you really want to keep this, keep a copy in your userspace/on your system. Nobody is going to stop you running it when you're actually playing, so knock yourself out. PewPew   QQ   00:19, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

This build was a meta among Paragons for yonks. It had better be archived and not deleted. 81.141.90.196 01:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * (3 hero) Racway was meta, this wasn't. -- Jai' s Computer -  03:20, January 13 2012 (UTC)
 * It was meta for awhile, or rather, a long time. I don't think is worth archiving since I know people run it once in awhile.-- Relyk 03:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)