Archive talk:Rt/N Explosive Growth Minion Bomber/Archive 1

Jagged Bones+Spirit's Gift Variant
I actually run this, you rely on a healer to keep you alive under pressure, but its fairly good at supporting, dealing damage, and energy management: [build name="Explosive Gift of Creation" prof=ritua/necro spawni=12+1+1 deathm=12 rest=3] [Death Nova][Jagged Bones][Feast for the Dead][Animate Bone Minions][Explosive Growth][Boon of Creation][Spirit's Gift][Flesh of My Flesh][/build] ~ Merlin_0525  14:57, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I personally stick with this:

[build name="Razah's Minion Factory" prof=ritua/necro spawni=12+1+1 deathm=12] [Boon of Creation][Spirit's Gift][Explosive Growth][Animate Bone Minions][Jagged Bones][Death Nova][Verata's Sacrifice][Death Pact Signet][/build]
 * Similar, but not quite the same. I find it less risky than using Flesh of my Flesh personally... and I find that heroes tend not to use minion-sacrificing skills effectively. I usually use it in areas with tons of corpses where I bring Olias along with a Jagged Bones minion build of his own (Death Nova and Blood of the Master included) for a grand total of 18 minions. ~ SotiCoto 17:06, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * Verata's Sacrifice is quite ineffective because of the natural -20 health regen iirc. Death Pact Signet is way too risky. Heroes with DP tend to die quickly after rezzing = wipe because your minions become masterless.  ĐONT * TALK  17:59, 10 January 2008 (EST)

AB Version
After using the build in PvE with success, I figured out the AB version, which worked as I expected. Hope you like it:) I didn't want to edit the main article since its includes a category adding (+AB) that not vetted so until vetting policy is not updated, this remains here..

Rt/N Boon of Explosive Gift
The AB variant provides wide-spread healing for both minions and allies, condition ingoring to prevent ganking from assasins and warriors, while providing high damage from Explosive Growth and Death Nova with spamming Animate Bone Minions.

Attributes and Skills
[build name="Boon of Explosive Gift" prof=ritua/necro spawni=12+1+3 deathm=12][animate bone minions][animate flesh golem][death nova][boon of creation][explosive growth][spirits gift][infuse condition][optional][/build]

Equipment

 * Any weapon with enchantments last 20% longer.
 * Best Vigor rune possible and superior Spawning Power.

Usage

 * Keep Boon of Creation, Explosive Growth, Spirits Gift and Infuse Condition up all times.
 * Create a Flesh Golem when you do not have one.
 * Cast Animate Bone Minions next to the corpses when possible to refresh your minions and heal them, yourself and any nearby allies (extremly useful when capturing control points, since everybody stand next to the defenders' corpses and your minions are not dispersing).
 * Have Death Nova on each minions, since casting Animate Bone Minions will instantly trigger it.

Check General minion mastery guide for an in depth discussion of minion usage.

Counters

 * Remove the enchantments upon which the build depends.
 * Exploit the corpses with faster-casting Necromancer skills.
 * Use Smiting Prayers, which double damage against undead creatures.
 * Use high-level magical Area of Effect damage against the low-level minions before they come into Death Nova range.

Optional Slot

 * Blood of the Master if not statisfied with Spirit's Gift's healing.
 * Veratas Aura for countering it when used by enemies.

Heroes
Does anyone know how this Build works out on Heroes in PvE? Since the heroes are already quite good at keeping death nova and jagged bones up, I'd like to see if they can handle this Build.

I use this in hard mode, with 2 support necromancers who keep death nova and jagged bones up, and this will bomb the hell out of everything. I only have Razah actually making the minions though- I just stick to keeping the necros alive, and Razah. Napalm Flame  ^_^ (talk)·(contributions) 00:10, 22 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Well, this is pretty old, but I've tried this build on my heroes and they're terrible with it. They don't keep their enchants up, and always cast them when I engage. Because of that they're always late to the fights and never hit anything when they create minions. Any tips? Did some Hero AI update break this build long ago? ~ Mortimer 18:59, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Someone care to explain the purpose of the revert of my change?
Please explain the purpose of the revert...Ritualists are FACTIONS, so why would you have a NIGHTFALL variation of something thats factions, especially since the most important skills are still factions. 72.196.131.42 22:25, 20 August 2007 (CEST) (Forgot to login)
 * Skills such as jagged bones, putrid flesh, reclaim essence, spirit's gift, and animate shambling horror are all nightfall-based, and very useful for a build such as this. yes, the most important skills are factions-based. However, that doesn't mean that nightfall skills can't help. ~ ZamaneeJinn [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 22:49, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * That makes no sense, just have them in variants, theres no 'nightfall variation' they can use whatever elite they like, theres no need for 2 or 3 extra bars. Craziinick 22:59, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Then write that. you didn't have to delete all the bars. ~ ZamaneeJinn [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 23:07, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I mean, write that in if you're going to delete the bars. ~ ZamaneeJinn [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 23:08, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

RV
The Jagged Variant is actually better than the main bar. Dunno about the other two. But dont just delete Builds. Asdfg 19:20, 26 August 2007 (CEST)

Signet of Creation
Is bugged. Has small range, sucks. Change plsAsdfg 17:52, 27 August 2007 (CEST)

WE DONT NEED NO STINKING SKILLBARS
the skill bars in the nightfall variations just take up space. it would be much better (imo) to just write down nightfall skills that one could bring into this build as opposed to writing big old skill templates. (due to the mediation rule, i cant re-revert asdfg's undo) DX ~ ZamaneeJinn  (contribs) 04:34, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I like your change of tone there....you defended reverting my removal of the skill bars...now you remove them yourself? <-- craziinick, didn't feel like logging in 72.196.131.42 04:16, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * no response? i'll re-revert then XD. ~ ZamaneeJinn [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 02:50, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Razah runs this build fairly well. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:29, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Not as effective as he did :(. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 00:33, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh? Wasn't the update "Adjusted the conditions in which heroes used Death Nova in PvP", not "...in the whole game"? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:36, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * They just made it so Heroes use Death Nova shittier in general, from my basic understanding. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 00:38, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Just did a quick test with it. Nothing was changed. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:41, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Heh, good to know. They just need to unnerf Jagged now, and I will be appeased for today =). Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 00:49, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

Dunno why then, my Olias still runs nice minion bombing build. Maybe Razah is starting to riot, because people will take the female ritualist instead of him? &mdash; Abedeus   08:48, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

Or IT, shall we say since it is an entity from the underworld. --77.96.222.63 11:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * He is male for sure. Go check it out, just take his clothes off. ~ ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  12:01, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

GW:EN gives us a break from mini-management.
GW:EN, I love you. My love for you explodes with awesome power. Putrid Bile is a welcome gift from Grenth. I dug Icy Veins, Vile Miasma, and Necrosis out of my neglected toybox, and relegated Death Nova to MoW. But why stop there? Ebon Battle Standard of Honor is like a sac-free Order of Undeath, a once-sided Winnowing that can't die... Heck, put Explosive Creation on a Hero, and Touch Rangers/Blood Necros have one more reason to get up close and personal. Drop the Battle Standard, and poke-poke-poke!

Outdated
With the coming of Nightfall, is far superior to this build. It does more damage, has better energy management, and has more powerful minions. Therefore, when that build is vetted, this build will be archived. -- Armond Warblade 10:03, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * So, follow standard procedure and update this build. The other is still subject to deletion via WELL. There's no point archiving something when the up-to-date variant is played the same and achieves the same goal. - Auron 10:07, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

(Inserted before edit conflict) This is not, by the way, something that will be dealt with by community consent. This is an example of PvX:WELL and the shifting nature of the game meeting and greeting. For a precedent, see Archive:R/W Bunny Thumper. -- Armond Warblade 10:09, 8 October 2007 (CEST)


 * (Post-edit conflict) I would, but see the precedent. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 10:09, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Mmkay. Fixed. - Auron 10:18, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I was afraid you'd do something like that. Keep in mind the naming sequences - Rampaging Thumper more accurately describes the current build, which uses Rampage as One. I ask you to reconsider. =\ -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 10:26, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * It's never called Rampaging Thumper, and the naming scheme for the first fits the second just as well (ranger running around with a hammer). If anyone ever called it a Rampaging Thumper, I might reconsider :p - Auron 10:28, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * When was the last time you heard it called a bunny thumper tbh. I only ever hear it called "thumper" or "RaO". -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 10:31, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I heard Bunny Thumper just yesterday ;p. Also, isn't that what Izzy called it? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:18, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Two things:
 * Yes, he called it that.
 * Of all the things you could be commenting on, you only comment on this.
 * Hope that cleared things up. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:20, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I found this amusing. The rest I do not care for. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:22, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * It's also funny that the superior build Armond used to base his accusation is now deleted and this is still a 'Great' category build. Hmm. ~ Jujipoo   talk  00:29, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

why flesh golem?
this may seem like a dumb question, but why flesh golem? in my understanding jagged bones and reclaim essence buids were superior to the flesh golem one. Alpha fireborn 23:44, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Damage. You need something to start the bombing off. --InternetLOL 23:46, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Looking back, this build was changed from Jagged Bones to Flesh Golem when Jagged Bones received the nerfbat and Golem being able to spawn corpses to make Minions from, as well as acting as a tank and dealing more damage. Jagged Bones is still in the Variants section though, but it was decided that it's not worth taking. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:47, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

Update
Update to this imo. -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  01:11, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Main problem I have with that one is the lack of res and long recharge of Jagged and Shambling (25s and 15s?), and it being unable to sustain minions moving from one area to another. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:13, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * FFS, just make 3 skill bars and please everybody!Alpha fireborn 01:22, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * We like to discuss things a lot. It makes the world go round. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:23, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * (Edit conflict)I somewhat understand your argument, but I still think the other is better. I really see no reason for spirit's Gift in the one this should be replaced by, so it could easily be replaced by FoMF. Only need 2-3 minions to survive the walk to next place, and Jagged works for that. Both build has two types of minions, both have maintainable minions. The only thing worse I can see about this one is the lack of res. -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  01:26, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * For once, I agree with Rapta, discussion makes wikis like this work. Without discussion the wiki would just die. As long as this doesn't degen to a flame-war again, discussion is great.


 * For PvE Spirit's Gift should be swapped for either res sig, or a hard res from the Rt line, such as Restoration or Flesh of my Flesh. Spirit's gift was mainly added for AB/CM to remove resulting disease from nearby allies as it's applied making them immune to re-application unless they leave and make contact with it again.


 * In playtesting Jagged Bones alone is enough to keep 3-4 minions alive between battles, even with a 15-second recharge. As stated on the notes, the intial explosion from a Shambling Horror with Jagged Bones and Death Nova on it with Explosive Growth on yourself does 221 damage plus an additional 224 more damage from degen over 15 seconds, for a total of 445 damage. The 30-second bleed which is usually applied from the resulting Jagged Horrors brings the total up to at least 625, plus any attack damage they deal. Compare this to the original build's 85 intial damage and 120 damage over 15 seconds for a total of only 205. Less than one-third of this build's damage and you can still spam death nova like the original build. This is almost always enough to generate a few more corpses that you can hit with Bone Minions for more explosive growth damage and minions to bomb with. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:30, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Yes, but the nice part of this build is being able to keep up all of your minions from battle to battle. This functions to mitigate damage from the rest of your party, as well as to explode things more. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:38, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * The other build doesn't necessarily create more explosions, and the ones it does create are weaker. This one does keep more minions alive which creates a better damage shield, but this build isn't for that - it for blowing stuff up, which the other one does better. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:41, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * This one functions as both. The minions would die, replenish quickly, has a sturdy tank that helps generate more minions. The key failure in the other one is the recharge time on Shambling and Jagged. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:43, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Both builds have same number of minions. Reithan's build cant keep up all the minions up(only 3-4) but deals lots more damage. This build deals less damage but is able to keep more minions up. I see your point, but I think the benefits of Reithan's outweighs the benefits of this. -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  01:44, 9 October 2007 (CEST)(btw triple edit conflict ftl)


 * The damage is roughly the same. Reithan's version benefits from Explosive Growth slightly more, at the expense of having less minions to Death Nova. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:47, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * The damage is quite a bit more, actually. This build benefites very little from Explosive Creation, as it never triggers on minion death. Reithan's triggers every time a minion with Jagged dies, or when a Shambling dies. Although illogical, if you count total number of minions instead of how many survive, Reithan's has many more. -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  01:54, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Kinda off subject but does Spirit's Gift heal your minions? I'm guessing no, even though minions are counted as allies. <font color="Red">Viet talk  . 01:42, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes, it does. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:42, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * It requires your minions to be in the same area where it was cast, which is a major downside in comparison to an unconditional heal. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:46, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Then I suppose it lessens the need for a minion heal especially because you're minion bombing anyways. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|User:Viet|19px]]<font color="Red">Viet talk  . 01:45, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * It does, as you can just keep spirit's gift up and keep spamming Jagged Bones on minions that are about to die to heal all the others, and respawn the ones that die and keep your whole swarm up for a long time, but I think having a res is more important than keeping your whole swarm for this build. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:48, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * The spamming is extremely limited (not even a spam, really). 15 seconds is an extremely long time, as is the 25 second on Shambling. The aforementioned "combo" can only be gone through entirely maybe once per battle. The current version is great in terms of using Death Nova, mitigating damage, utility, simplistic and effective minion maintainence from battle to battle. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:54, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Bone minions have a 5 second recharge. -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  01:56, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, that's important to note in both versions. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:57, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * The current build has no utility. You can usually use the combo 2x per battle, as you should have animated a shambling horror at the end of the previous battle to start the new one with. Jagged, I agree, isn't really a "spam" skill, but if you keep casting it as it refreshes it works well enough for it's purpose. Also, this build can do everything the previous build can do - minus maintaining a full swarm - which I'm not really interested in. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:59, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm bad at internet sarcasm. Anyways, what I was saying is that you still have bone minions, and you still have another minion with 25 sec recharge, so spirit's gift will trigger just as often. -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  02:02, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * The utility is in the ability to resurrect, keep minions alive, having a large tank that can sustain lots of damage, be healed, and create corpses for more bombs to spawn. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:03, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I thought utility referenced things more like knockdown, hex/condition removal and stuff like that?


 * Anyway, swapping Spirit's Gift for a res means this can res, too. And Flesh Golem has a 30 second recharge, meaning Explosive Creation will actually trigger more often, and you can still use Death Nova just as much as the original build, plus extra triggers of explosive creation from shambling horrors dying, and use of jagged bones.


 * Basically, this is more offensively-oriented than the original build. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:05, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * I've got an idea, lets make a separate build page(lol). -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  02:08, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * *groan* — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:11, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * I don't see the need in going through that again. The variant is already mentioned in the current build, so going through the entire debate again would be rather pointless. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:12, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * agreed. Though, I still think it's the best variant of this build and should be moved to top billing. :P — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:17, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I don't like the idea of having a purely offensive variant of a balanced build with utility and flexibility to be covered in the main bar. I believe that the Variants section is adequate enough to contain this. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:19, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Ok, how about something like (I changed it). Both are great, but ones more offensive and the other is more defensive. Offensive is on secondary bar. Needs cleaned up tho.  -- Teh Uber Pwnzer  02:21, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * As it's still listed as a PvE build you should probably put up the PvE version with FomF instead of Spirit's Gift. The page is very long, though, and several sections could probably be consolidated. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:24, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Why does one need a res in PvE, again? It's nice, but I've never found it to be truly required. -- Armond Warblade 04:48, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Most people suggest a res for PvE because if something goes wrong and a critical member of your team (say...your monk, for example) goes down, you don't want to have to suicide off the rest of the party for a res and end up with a bunch of DP or have to restart the mission or run. Similar to why most good non-AB/CM PvP builds 'require' a res. Because not having a res can sometimes easily spell F-A-I-L.


 * On the other hand, if you're confident enough that your team can do your chosen PvE venue without any losses, a res isn't 100% required. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 05:11, 9 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Let us assume the mindset of your average PvEr... "Zomg must bring a res in case the monk goes down... even though I'm a sin and will probably die first... Or maybe I'm a warrior so I'll live longer... or a ranger and I'll stay way in the back..." So yeah, I don't see the loss of a single res in the team when you can use it for an extra skill... Maybe if it were something like DoA or FoW/UW, but even then... -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 06:06, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Jagged is a bad skill. Flesh Golem is not. Well that was easy. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:23, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * This is a bomber build. Jagged creates stronger bombs, Flesh Golem does not. Well that was easy. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 23:28, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Readem makes me lawl sometimes... -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 00:53, 10 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm curious too though. I'm a noob and don't have either flesh golem or jagged, but I'm trying to think to the future, and logically, it would seem like jagged would give you twice the minions to explode and tack on some nice bleed damage to boot... or when a minion dies to become a jagged, does that not trigger an explosion?
 * It does, but the Flesh Golem is great for starting off the roll. Also, please sign your posts with four tildes ~, there's a button on the toolbar to do it automatically if you're lazy. :) --71.229.204.25 21:21, 16 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Also, jagged is hard to use effectively, unless you're a hero. Lord Belar 21:23, 16 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Why is that, because it automatically targets the nearest minion?
 * You should be hand-selecting your target sacrifice so you can hit him with jagged, nova, and putrid. It's not difficult. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 01:09, 17 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I'd still like to see the update made. Between playing both versions of the build, the one using the newer skills is FAR stronger. Both for PvE and for CM/AB. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 11:42, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Late PvE
People say that minion masters aren't a good choice to use in late pve. Would this build be an exception? --Sabare 23:12, 11 December 2007 (CET)
 * This build provides: meat shields, aoe-damage (armor ignoring) and aoe-degen. Now think and you have your awnser. Grobilikesmudkips 02:20, 12 December 2007 (CET)
 * If theres corpses, bring mm. At least i always have mm in party if possible, but im not using any melee class... 88.85.155.47 13:14, 22 December 2007 (EST)
 * Errm, don't use standard MM late game lol. The minions die in 2 seconds. This is gud though. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (T/C/Sysop) 13:21, 22 December 2007 (EST)
 * Depends on the late PvE. Late PvE factions they're pretty good, Nightfall they're so-so, and Prophecies is the same. Still, you'll never roam around late PvE much, only a short time. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  19:49, 24 February 2008 (EST)

AB Tag
Can we pop one on? 74.163.176.184 12:08, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * No. Don't run MM's in PvP. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 12:31, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * MMs, especially this, I agree, do not work in MOST PvP...but AB they do. There's enough dead bodies and NPCs flying around that they're actually very effective. — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 13:45, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * You probably shouldn't. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 13:46, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Shouldn't what? Play something that's effective in AB? Play AB? What? — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 14:02, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Play Rt/N bombers in AB. It's bad. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 14:57, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * If you say so... *rolls eyes* — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 08:13, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Umm no. it IS bad. Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk - Contributions 15:20, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Bombing isn't very effective in PvP (even if it's just AB) because it'll be harder to control your minions deaths, and your AoE might not even hit your foes. In AB, which is about the only place you should play any kind of Minion Master, you should be using a Necromancer Primary with Aura of the Lich, Flesh Golem or Order of Undeath. -Mike 15:42, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It works so-so in AB, but that's about it, something about dieing in 3 seconds has to do with it.--[[Image:Relyk Purifying Veil Sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="99CCFF">R ELYK   <font color="CCCCFF">ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ  20:31, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Why Bortak's Bone Cesta or Armind's Focus?
+1 to Death Magic does not increase the number of minions you can control, so it seems to me that its not as helpful as the alternatives.--War Pig5 17:07, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It can increase Flesh Golem's level by one. ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  17:13, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
 * If you don't use Flesh Golem (which I don't, because I prefer Jagged Bones), take a Staff with an enchanting mod, or a Spear of Enchanting and a focus. I'm not sure if heroes will use this build properly if they use a spear, though. >.> ــмıкε  нaшк  20:36, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Use aura of the lich and u can have an extra one :P--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  22:34, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Poisonous Sword/Axe?
Under the equipment it lists you might want to take a poisonous sword/axe... why? Does that bonus actually apply when death nova activates? (assuming that was what the author was thinking of when they wrote that) 78.150.126.180 19:45, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

I remember this exact build being released b4 minion bomber was and got a very poor rating. guess since minion bomber is not as popular anymore ppl relooked this build over eh?

Archive?
This is very outdated and incredibly slow, so should it be archived? If nothing else it definitely needs to get some vote balancing to push it into "Good". <font face="Arial" color="gray">21:03, 13 April 2009 O_O undo that archive lol, it still works great on heroes.

Definitely archive now that Signet of Creation has been nerfed and there is no "bomb" effect!!! 71.205.97.94 21:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Replace Sig of Creation (which was bad in the first place) with a good skill and it works like a train. It's also neat to use this threefold. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Heh, Shambling Horrors are kind of unnecessary. It amounts to the same thing as Bone Minions when you're using Jagged Bones (which you should be, because you should also be running this on a Hero), but with slightly more damage before it dies. Spirit's Gift can be used to heal your minions and frontliners. Energetic Was Lee Sa is pretty good with this high Spawning Power, and could be used for additional E-management. Or, just leave it optional. ــѕт. мıкε  12:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

If only Anet did this...
It would be uber sweetness with this build ^_^ --67.101.83.233 07:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * [[image:Verata's Sacrifice.jpg|25px]] Verata's Sacrifice - - (Death Magic) - Enchantment Spell. All of your Minions die. You gain  Health regeneration ( seconds) and all your -other- Death Magic skills recharge if a minion dies in this way.

The "all of your Death Magic skills recharge" is a bit too much. <font color="FF4500" face="calibri">Rada Arashi  20:05, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Jagged Bones wastes your Elite
Jagged Bones is a HORRIBLE choice in this Build. Animate the shamblings, get the same effect, another shot of both Boon & EG, and use DISCORD for your elite. its by FAR the better way to go here.

Also, BOtM does exactly the opposite of what you want done in a minion bomb build. Terrible choice. You lose health and the minions gain health. BAD. Dont do that. Use Feast instead, so you gain health and your minions lose it, so they blow up and deal damage. BOtM is the worst MM skill ever except for very rare areas with no corpses, and if you need it then you should replace your MM for that zone anyway.
 * ur bad. ··· [[File:Danny-sig.png]] 20:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No sign man is terrible.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 06:41, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No sign man should unistall GW right away--Tyrael-- 12:35, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Late-to-the-party person who's just hopping on the bandwagon is pretty lame. --[[Image:Jaigoda_endrant.jpg|/rant]]  Jai  writes a  lot . . . 16:06, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">16:31, 14 September 2009

Question
I was just wondering, why was this ever archived? <font color="Black" face="Comic Sans" size="3">Tyrael  <font color="Red"> Undead!  20:40, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Just asking
Why are you trying to keep your minions alive with BotM and hoping them to die with DN at the same time?
 * BotM is to keep them alive in between battles so you have more minions who can die with DN. Norwegian Thunder 23:02, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

WTH ARCHIVED?!!!!
I just dont get it, its not because SoS rocks that it should be archived its one of the best mm builds around(way better then usual Necro MM, just make ur brains work a bit What the hell do u loose ? Masochism and Necro energy management? masochism usually helps to get minions stronger, but they are cause they're are empowered by Spawning Power and play they're meet wall work perfectly). Then Energy, with Boon of creation and energetic was lee sa or signet of creation u can spam minions and death nova like a bitch, energy will stay hihg. Now, lets watch why this build is better than usual Necro build, u can make damage upon creation of minions(u can even nuke a whole group if u use AoTl wisely) so at end you got a MM which make more damage, and which stronger minions, wat do u really loose, 10 damage from death nova....(btw it allows u to use xandra which is way more sexy then Olias or MoW(cause ofc livia is already in my teambuild :D), if u wanna stay with a 60 years old dude in red dress or with a new wave fuckin emo(not E/Mo)which wears slim clothes do it, but u are a really strange dude, really O_o Cmon make it great again--<font color="Black">Ryden77  12:48, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * totally agree gee 11:51, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Longer cast times, less damage, lower amount of minions, both primary and secondary profession tied up so no /Mo for Aegis. This is crappy in NM and even worce in HM, both for players and for heroes.

Maybe Meta?
I improved this build a bit and I want to ask about your opinion. Can be added Meta tag to this build now because it looks really beautiful now? -- God  Kamil 14:39, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've tried this both at hero and on player character and if anything, the results are disappointing. On a player character you quickly get over the illusion that the explosive growth itself is dealing good damage. And you realize that 3 seconds to spawn minions isn't just one eternity, it's three. At the same time it has subpar energy management and damage compared to a primary necromancer (lower attribute means lower amount of minions and lower level minions) doesn't get the benefit from masochism either, and since SoS is meta now the elite should never, and will never be used at this character. In simple terms, it's a creative build. But it's crap straight down to the core. This build should be scrapped \ archived or whatever else you can do with it. It's performance definitely doesn't warrant a "Great" rating. YuriZahard 09:38, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * At worst this build prevents better MMs and SoS ritualists from doing their job. 62.197.173.242 12:43, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Irony is that you see it used more in PuGs than most other MM builds :S Kracatoan 16:15, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably because there are 50 million rits and they all can't run SoS in the same party. Dzjudz sig.png<font color="#47d1de">talk 16:53, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Archiving
People run rit bombers in their groups. Regardless of whether it's good or not, it's not going to be archived because someone either theorycrafts its bad or is just under the impression from testing. There's no issue except shitters that keep adding the tag. Trash it in ratings if you think it doesn't work. The same applies to a WELL tags. That is all.-- Relyk  talk  17:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing's change about its effectiveness. There's no reason to archive. Aonsephonie 17:13, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I cant never -NOT- see at least one ritualist minion bomber when doing my daily Zaishen quest rounds... the minion list window has made them even more popular. Being a flexible profession allows rit players to crowd control when the party needs a dedicated bomber, or when in a party consisting of 5+ rit players (again this happens at least 2x a week) and this winds up as among the only viable options when the Channeling SoS, Communing SoGM, Spawning ST, and Restoration RL slots are already taken. --108.23.214.185 07:08, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So should we add some random Rt/A and Rt/P crap so that if there's 8 rits in the team, you can run those? -- Jai . -  17:45, May 3 2011 (UTC)