Build talk:W/E PvP Shock Axe/Archive 1

Frenzy
I understand the whole frenzy with rush as a cancel stance. Thats nice and all but really if you use a berserker stance you can build into your Chain faster. It wont matter if you end your stance early by swinging because you don't need speed boost during the chain. This allows you to take rush off and instead use something like Axe Rake in your chain to follow after eviscerate. This gives your chain more damage, cripples your target (replaces rush's ability to catch kites) and gives more purpose to the building of adrenaline. I also dislike the idea of a cancel stance because it always feels like a wasted slot. Your supposed to cancel if you become targeted well what if the first thing that targets you is a 102 Damage obsidian flame? thats 204 damage that ignores your beefy armor. Ouch.Razorcloud 08:51, 28 May 2007 (CEST)

You'll want IAS so you can spike faster. Axe Rake isn't a very good spike skill, use Critical Chop if you want more damage. And if you're worried about Frenzy, use something like Tiger Stance instead. Tycn 09:31, 28 May 2007 (CEST)
 * If you're worried about frenzy, uninstall. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  06:58, 25 February 2008 (EST)
 * lol that comment is made like a year ago lulz -- Infested Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 09:16, 25 February 2008 (EST)
 * Leeet's doooo the tiiiime waaaarp agaaaaaain! It's just a hop to the left... - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  09:37, 25 February 2008 (EST)
 * Touch me, make me dirty! <3--Thc 22:04, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * <3<3<3 -- Mafaraxas ( talk ) 18:42, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Frenzy in competative missions.. you must be joking, try attacking the gate guards on aspenwood with that running, and yes ok, you can just go with normal attack speed, but tbh i think there are better choices out there for CM. 81.147.140.212 00:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Enraging Charge?
Wouldn't enraging charge be better than rush? I know that it is used due to the adrenaline but wouldn't the extra adrenaline from enraging charge be better than just the running speed increase from Rush alone? Joshgt2 06:13, 31 May 2007 (CEST)
 * It's a variant. Rush serves a slightly different purpose though... longer speed boost, doesn't end when you hit (which means you can train a kiting target and be in shock range if he tries to put up aegis or summat), etc. Overall, no, Rush is a better option, but you can use e-charge if you want. - Auron 06:19, 31 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I love E-charge on everything, but Shock Axe. For this, Rush is MUCH better imo. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 07:36, 31 May 2007 (CEST)
 * The choice is really between Rush and Sprint (see below why Sprint should be the main choice and Rush the variant). Rush is great for flagstand pressure, Sprint gives splittability, but ER is not great for either because it ends when you hit someone.  I Noob I 16:03, 31 July 2007 (CEST)

Omigawa Note
Whoever said use berzerker stance, please do not post that ever again. Berzerker stance is never to be used in PvP, under any circumstance. Use Tiger Stance instead. (note, NEVER, EVER, use tiger stance in PvP) This is the generic shock axe, why was it posted? Those who don't know of its existence shouldn't be given it. This is oldschool pvp.
 * So all new players should be excluded from access to builds which they might need to get into PvP? Pretty elitist if you ask me. Also, you're contradicting yourself on Tiger Stance. Tycn 12:25, 15 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Uh, this is far from old school pvp. - Skakid9090 19:23, 17 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Obviously he meant Berserker's Stance. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:48, 12 July 2007
 * No, it was a clever way of saying use frenzy or flail, don't use berserker stance, use tiger stance, but don't use Tiger Stance either, so that leaves you with...? You get the point.--Hikari 08:09, 15 July 2007 (CEST)

Checked and Reviewed
For Viability. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 16:50, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Agonising Chop
works wonders in this build. Tycn 21:15, 15 June 2007 (EDT)
 * but dchop says lolguardian Zzes Tyan 22:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Sprint
The most common version of this in GvG at the moment uses Sprint instead of Rush (check out vD or pretty much any other top guild running balanced at the moment). The reason is that this is primarily a split warrior - that's not to say that it usually splits by default, which it doesn't, but rather than most teams have one warrior which is optimised for splitting and one which isn't, to give them tactical flexibility. You can tell this is the split warrior by the fact that it has a heal sig, which is essential on unsupported splits but is a waste of a skill slot at the stand.

I know Sprint is in there as a variant, but I think it's worth switching into the main page because that's the one (good) people actually use with the Heal Sig. If you're taking Rush then this probably isn't your split warrior so you should also drop Heal Sig for Conjure or Agonizing. Personally, I'd make two shock axe pages, one for the split version (Sprint, Heal Sig) and one for the stand version (Rush, Conjure/Agonizing) - that might sound stupid at first but they do play significantly different roles in a GvG team. I Noob I 16:03, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Shock axes play the same, pretty much, regardless of whether you're making them split-capable or not. You're not going to split a shock axe if you have a cripslash or some other sword you can split, anyway. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 16:26, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * The example you quote illustrates the point quite well: if you have a split-capable Cripslash in your team then you really don't want to gimp your shock axe by putting a heal sig on him, so you go for Rush and either Conjure or Agonizing. But if you have say a hammer warrior or dervish instead of your Cripslash then you probably do want the axe guy to be splittable, so you go for Heal Sig and Sprint.  In GvG I don't think you'd ever want Rush and Heal Sig on the shock axe, because one is bad for splitting and the other is bad at the stand.  It's not a bad choice for RA, but this is marked as an HA + GvG build.  I Noob I 18:26, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Heal Sig's not bad at the stand. It can help ease the pressure on your monks a bit. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 18:29, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Heal Sig on a warrior at the stand is as useful as Ether Feast would be on an MoR mesmer. Less useful in fact, because mesmers need healing more than warriors do and casting Ether Feast wastes less time than using Heal Sig.  Ether Feast isn't a bad skill in fact, so why doesn't anyone ever put it on their mesmer in GvG?  The answer is obviously that there are at least 10 other skills which are much more useful - and exactly the same is true for the stand warrior and Heal Sig.  I Noob I 18:52, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Koreans. I win. :P --Edru viransu //QQ about me 19:09, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * You are right that people rarely put heal sig on warriors beyond sticking one healsig on one of their warriors so it can split some, but that's just because people are bad and don't know how to split anymore. :) --Edru viransu //QQ about me 19:11, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Void runs trip stance. Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 20:01, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * why bother splitting when SoR exists? &mdash; Skuld 22:18, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Because you can Skuld, because you can. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 05:14, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * With much difficulty and luck :-/ &mdash; Skuld 11:23, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

Healsig
Why is healsig on main bar for Shock Axe? nobody runs healsig on shock axe...Craziinick 04:50, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * You are wrong. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 05:01, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Well maybe so, but i've never seen it run with healsig before, use cripslash to split, not shockaxe. Craziinick 05:10, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Because you never might want to run an axe warrior and a hammer warrior(or an axe and a derv), right? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 05:17, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I never said you couldn't, I just don't think it should be on the main bar, thats all. Craziinick 05:19, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Shock Axe is by far one of the most flexable Builds a Warrior can run. More Utils then any others as well. I <3 shock axe. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 05:20, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Tbh, I'd rather split something that hits hard and has an interrupt and two strong snares, neither of which require adrenaline buildup, over a cripslash, unless I could guarantee that I could always split a ranger with him. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 05:25, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

Order
Should be Bull's<Rush<Frenzy on the bar. Saves like a couple mils secs in GvG. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 18:48, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

Tactics Rune
In the attribute section it shows +1 tactics, yet the equipment section specifically notes not to use a tactics rune. I'd change it, but I'm not sure which one is correct, as I haven't run this build too much. <font color="#959595">Ghellam 23:34, 9 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Fixed. Guys, don't blindly add runes everywhere.. &mdash; Skuld 01:06, 10 August 2007 (CEST)


 * You added it... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 01:09, 10 August 2007 (CEST)


 * I'm going to asume that you simply skimmed over and misread, and are not, infact, a drooling moron. &mdash; Skuld


 * (Conflict)Ah, my bad skuld. Thought you added it, just saw the red letters... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 01:14, 10 August 2007 (CEST)

Sundering??
Am I missing something? Why is sundering listed under the equipment? Vampiric adds more DPS, sundering is just crap.--Thelordofblah 02:07, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * DPS doesn't kill people. Big criticals kill people. It's really a matter of personal preference on axes, though. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 02:09, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Sundering is shit tbh. And regular DPS is important, I prefer zealous tbh. Can keep frenzied longer, without exhausting myself completely. Terror 07:52, 3 November 2007 (CET)

Sundering is the best choice in blocking metas, alas with the pre-nerf SoD, where vampiric will turn out to be disadvantageous. Rihadol 13:30, 2 January 2007 (EST)

No, it isn't. --<font color="Black">Readem 11:34, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Sundering and vamp is pretty equal, which you take is your choice. It's not gonna matter much anyway. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  06:56, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Sundering is a good upgrade to use if you don't want an element or the degeneration of Vampiric/Zealous mods. і†оκαҐυ 17:06, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Sundering procs on your spikes get kills. Pluto 20:39, 11 April 2008 (EDT)


 * sundering doesn't make you weaponswitch <font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Too Muh Bruh  09:45, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

"Sundering is shit tbh. And regular DPS is important, I prefer zealous tbh. Can keep frenzied longer" i lol'ed at that comment. Zzes Tyan 21:45, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

Insignias
Does anyone really use radiant? It's not like you're going to shock everything in sight, it shouldn't be necessary. Survivor seems much better, especially on a warrior. 68.92.61.185 20:42, 27 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yes. Radiants are good. Radiants are important to be able to pull off bull's-frenzy-shock or other bursts of unusually high energy use, particularly when exhausted. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 20:44, 27 October 2007 (CEST)

Can "Some use Sentinel's on Chest (not suggested but possible)" be removed? It makes no sense. If using Sentinels - it should be on gloves or boots - with, say, a Radiant (or Survivor's) on the chest. Or is there something I'm missing here? --War Pig5 15:45, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Armor is calculated depending on the part of the body hit - there's about a 75% chance if hitting the chest or legs, and a 5% chance of hitting the hands or feet. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  15:53, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Where are you getting that 75% information from? I'd like to know the % chance for each individual armor piece. --War Pig5 01:52, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * As I recall, there's 3/8 chance of hitting the chest, 2/8 chance of hitting the legs, 1/8 chance of hitting elsewhere (this is the rationale of Survivor and Radiant Insignias providing more of a buff when applied to the chest or legs). So really, it would be 62.5% if I'm not mistaken. --SoraMitsukai 14:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Can we be a little more specific here? I've always wondered, do you go Radiants on Chest + Legs for extra Bull's -> Frenzy -> Shock and 2 Stonefist Ingignias for 3s KD and only 1 Survivor? <font color="Black">Phalmatticus 16:35, 19 February 2008 (EST)

^Anyone have a good answer for that? <font color="Black">Phalmatticus 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Don't use radiants at all. --<font color="Black">Readem 00:15, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Ok no radiants, but 1 or 2 Stonefist insignias? [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 00:31, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Stonefists don't stack, so only one. I run Radiant on chest and legs tbh, but I'm bad so you can ignore me. --71.229 00:37, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * You can run Radiant, but I don't suggest it (I guess for more shock? Can always swap to high eaxe tho). Try this: mstr/maxe/supv/clarity/resto/surv/surv/surv/surviv/stonefist. I pretty much perma zealous, and only switch to vamp if I cannot break through defenses. --<font color="Black">Readem 01:01, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Sounds good, thanks [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 01:17, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Body Blow
Added Body Blow to variants. Same progression for Bonus Damage as Executioner's Strike, 1 less adrenaline cost. Good with 12 Strength. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 03:06, 11 November 2007 (CET)

Conjures
Any type of conjure, when paired with a +20en staff or +42en wand-focus and with enough points spent in (12+1+1 axe, 9+1 str, 9 element of choice) will add quite some DPS, i think it should be listed in the Variants section. Rihadol 13:33, 2 January 2007 (EST)
 * Done. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:44, 2 January 2008 (EST)

TA/RA?
Why isn't this listed as an arena build too? It's obviously more powerful than many other warrior builds in arenas, and is perfectly viable there as well. 198.53.176.173 17:55, 3 January 2008 (EST)

4.99?
Does the fact that one person rated this a 5-5-4 and killed its perfect rating bother anyone else? Teutonic 14:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * only 2 people have voted it less than perfect: 2 of the imperfections are on innovation which is ridiculous now, since it's not only meta but standard. the other imperfection is in universitality, which is also ridiculous, considering the number of possible situations this build is absolutely perfect for. [[Image:Iliekfrenzy.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Brown">Punjab 15:05, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * By my definition innovation is not whether a build is meta. Innovation is whether a build does an old job in a new way. This build is not innovative considering it's a PvP standard.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  01:26, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Should it be rated on its current innovation or the innovation at the time of the build's creation? Because Gale/Shock were both considered to be crazy when they were first used. Teutonic 12:36, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Probably, yes. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:35, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Okay, it was really bugging me. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  03:31, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Why is Executioner's Strike on the main bar
Instead of body blow. I know it's listed as a variant, but body blow does same damage for one less adrenaline, and it'll give you an additional source of DW if you're bringing cracked armor.--Goldenstar 18:21, 17 February 2008 (EST)

It is 2 less damage, and it really makes no difference. --<font color="Black">Readem 18:24, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * At 14 axe they both do +38, meh i guess it doesn't make much of a difference--Goldenstar 18:38, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * Body Blow is based on Strength. -<font color="Black">Shen 18:40, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * Duyh, thanks shen i was being dumb XD.--Goldenstar 18:42, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Good question! I'll fix this. Pluto 20:41, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

5-5-5 Disclaimer
47 votes all 5-5-5? I think we need this now:

The 5-5-5 Disclaimer

WARNING!: This build has recieved a rating of 5-5-5, which qualifies it for the "Uber" category. Unless affected by nerf or skill change, DO NOT, under any circumstances, vote this build below a 5-5-5.

It has clearly been effective, so it deserves a 5 in effectiveness, as does any good build.

It has been very versatile, being able to do what it is meant to do against common meta game builds, thus earning a 5.

It has been innovative, as innovation means that this can/will be meta, and deserves a 5 for it.

If you have any objections on why this shouldn't be a 5-5-5, then either go onto the Talk page of the build and explain why or keep your noobish comment to yourself and don't vote against the build. Simply vote 5-5-5.

If you accept this disclaimer (which you must), imaginarily sign here: ___________________________

Thanks, and don't fuck up the 5-5-5!

Disclaimer Maker: -- Guild of  Deals 

-- Guild of  Deals  07:38, 18 February 2008 (EST)


 * Stop spamming this on talk pages. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:08, 20 February 2008 (EST)

At least the overall score is still 5.00. Misfate 00:19, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * lol i fucked the overall up =o -- Infested Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 08:50, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Vocabulary: Training, Timed attack
The usage section refers to "training" but that term is not defined on any of the 3 major wikis. Can someone please supply a definition?--War Pig5 01:08, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Chasing, basically. It's called training because you'll sometimes see a monk being chased by a warrior being chased by a warrior that's linebacking being chased by a warrior that's trying to stop the linebacking warrior and so on. --71.229 01:12, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Training, is the rather common act of a War pressuring a target, via a speed buff and bull's. Shock train for example, is commonly used by European guilds, to repeatedly shock a target (while simultaneously Spiking). --<font color="Black">Readem 01:18, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks. I took the liberty of posting that here for the benefit of the next person like me.--War Pig5 02:42, 20 February 2008 (EST)

New question. The usage also refers to "Timed attack." What does that mean?--War Pig5 02:43, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * agonizing, prot strike etc. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 05:08, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks. Added that gw:Timed_attack. I've noticed that these words tend to get reverted out of the article, which is probably a good thing, it makes it more accessible. --War Pig5 02:14, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Decapitate?
Can you use it instead of eviscerate? Does more dmg, critical and wounds, all u gotta do is waste ur energy and use all adrenals be4 it (easy to do with a warr)... &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.97.198.102 (contribs).
 * Not really, Decapitate is just a bad skill. --71.229 03:55, 22 February 2008 (EST)
 * Decapitate is seriously the worst skill you can use in PvP, i know someones gonna come along and say another skill is worse, but Decapitate is pretty bad Zzes Tyan 21:50, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Whirling Axe is now the worst. :P --Ulterion 17:52, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Amity....  10:26, 24 December 2008 (EST)
 * Amity is funny though... Zzes Tyan 23:06, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Amity+conjure nightmare=funny way to kill someone in a 1v1 71.179.8.238 23:47, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Alliance battles?
There's no tab for it, but I figure it could easily be used in AB. Should we add a tab?Colonel Hawk 15:32, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Why is it just me who thinks this is a crap build... Atm this is a very standard build and even with all this KD and so on, my warrior's build wins every time(even when a monk is healing the shock warrior). Bioexpert
 * ...What?  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 10:58, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * I guess his build will be nerfed to death then....[[Image:Styxx_HL.jpg|19px]] Frans  11:00, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * The... Rickyvantof 11:01, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Though everyone thinks my build is rubbish, Bioexpert

What build r u using? btw, how do u like mine, recent pages renewing flourish. Frans  11:09, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * If you think Shock Axe is bad, consider uninstalling and giving up all hopes of ever playing GvG/good PvP. Shock Axe is the build of all builds, the best of the best, the nacho of all nachos. Seriously, no other build in history has had like 45 votes that were all 5-5-5. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild  of  Deals  11:14, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * I never said it wasn't perfect, I just want ppl to watch my build, which never wins from this one, but does deserve a look.[[Image:Styxx_HL.jpg|19px]] Frans  11:17, 23 February 2008 (EST)

The KD is just annoying and all together it does work but my build does same or more dmg for less adrenaline, all my build needs is a snare. + this build has no self heal.Bioexpert


 * Then get a snare. You need one. It's as simple as that.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 11:34, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Back to the original subject of this tab, I don't think this would work well for AB because of its inability to cap shrines (Frenzy vs 4 NPCs...) and AB is a lot better for Gank builds, just my input. (Oh, and this build is hawtsauce, /uninstall if you call this bad) <font color="Black">Phalmatticus 20:43, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * Similiar to any pvp build capping srhins with it just requires intelligence. this build isnt the best for AB because it sacrifices flexibility for over the top killing power. in GvG this builds damage shines, in AB i'd rather run a more versatile frontliner. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 21:17, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * ^What he said^ [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 21:28, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * Just run Dolyak Signet, Healing Hands, Mending and Healing Breeze in AB, IMO. Rickyvantof 21:31, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * pssht giving away all the pvping secrets. WHY DONT YOU JUST TELL HIM ABOUT THE SYNERGY BETWEEN SPIRITS STRENGTH AND DAGGER ATTACKS. GAWD. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 21:44, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * wait, did you say that shock axe sacrifices versatility? Seriously? exploding stuff with evisc, shock, bull's, dchop/dstrike/dblow... what more could you want from a frontliner? &mdash; Edru / QQ  22:34, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * DBlow doesn't do damage.
 * Carry on. =) &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:42, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * I know, but it was worth running before dstrike mostly replaced it(and the normal 1/2 activation attacks, as well). &mdash; Edru / QQ  22:47, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * Flexibility is not versaility, edru(one is a word i can spell, one is a word i cant). Shock axe is a killing machine. when you have a full guildy team, run it. but when your pugging ab, its effectiveness is lost inbetween 8000 snares and as many blinds. (and the faintheartedness+insidious hex stacks) --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 23:26, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * Or you can nuke everything. 75.75.180.0 23:29, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * Overated. the long cast times encourage one handing. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 23:32, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * To quote you, "in AB i'd rather run a more versatile frontliner"... &mdash; Edru / QQ  23:52, 23 February 2008 (EST)

you'll need to retool the build slightly if you're gonna run it in AB: use lion's comfort for selfheal+adrenaline management in place of rez sig, distracting strike in place of disrupting chop, and sprint in place of rush. with all that, you'll have a warrior that can maintain its adrenaline between skirmishes/shrine caps, energy based speed boost and disruption so they are available when you need them, and the outstanding damage output from evisc-->body blow.

--Moriz 09:10, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 * You put your bar in a weird order... I normally just throw Enraging Charge on my Shock Axe for Rezz Signet and call it good, but I only ever AB with a full Guild or Alliance group on vent, usually with a monk, we consider AB to be serious business. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  09:20, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 * that bar is a very poor copy+paste job. anyways, that bar is geared for both pug and structured team play, so i kinda like the self heal from lion's comfort.--Moriz 09:26, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Fix'd it. That's how I run mine at least.  09:29, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I kind of don't really see the point in tagging stuff for RA or AB, you really can run literally anything there and most people can make reasonable switches that don't break a build. Some builds are purely for AB or RA such as shrine cappers though and should be tagged as such. You can totally run a Shock Axe in PvE too and it will pwn face, but if you are going to do that, do you need to be told to do that? - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  09:31, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Lacerating Chop
What about it? It would add bleeding to the list of conditions since it synergizes with shock. Greevar 00:10, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * What would you possibly replace to fit it in? Racthoh 00:30, 4 March 2008 (EST)


 * I don't know. It was just a thought. Greevar 08:52, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Bleeding sucks. Think of it as the oposite of Mending. Rickyvantof 09:04, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Lacerating is crap [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 15:26, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * and yet someone just added it to variants. ("-_-) [[Image:Sebsig.jpg|19px]]  Seb2net  (Talk)  19:07, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Just a real quick question
How often should I allow myself to use Shock?  Seb2net  (Talk)  19:04, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * To interrupt key skills or when your team needs pressure. Try to keep around 5-10 energy for Frenzy and the like. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  19:07, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Depending on the team build/situation, I shock on rec. It really varies. --<font color="Black">Readem 19:08, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Also, it depends on the game. You can spam it heavy in RA as the matches are relatively quick, while in GvG the matches can be long and lengthy. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  19:10, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Long and lengthy lol--JORLZ36181 19:25, 3 July 2008 (EDT)
 * No, not really. --<font color="Black">Readem 19:12, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Long and lengthy is long. Thanks for the advice. The ideal situation is "when its needed but don't exhaust past 5-10 energy"? [[Image:Sebsig.jpg|19px]]  Seb2net  (Talk)  19:12, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Use it whenever. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  19:13, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * It's situational. Don't use it when you can use Bull's Strike etc... &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:41, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Shock is a pure utity skill and cannot be explained. That is the best explenation, just use it how you want to use it. Same for rof tbh. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  15:48, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

truly brave warriors spam shock on recharge 71.230.145.170 00:59, 25 December 2008 (EST)

"Does this really need to be on the ground RIGHT NOW?" Yes -> Shock. No -> don't Shock.  is for  Raine,   etc.  21:44, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * oh hello raine. &mdash; Maf so rational. 01:16, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh hello Maffles McCustomsig. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  01:20, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol year old topic. Life   Guardian  01:22, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I know, right? I'm sure we all have better things to do than post HERE, of all places!  So why are you doing it, again?  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  01:35, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I smell a troll Thunda_Sig_2.png Pimp strong  hand  01:36, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I smell someone who is going to be the subject of a shitstorm in the coming days. Life   Guardian  01:44, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I smell overwhelming amounts of care. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  01:49, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Never mind this being PvX, it's the internet after all. Spaggage  talk  02:10, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Raine, i feel i must retract my previous statement. As it turns out, pvx is so in awe of your awesomeness that we will now commence sucking your dick! Hopefully you aren't too butthurt and will continue to be completely autistic! Have a nice day! Life   Guardian  02:23, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Raine is a girl (?), and stop spamming my fucking watchlist. Take this chat to one of your talkpages. I recommend Raine's. :D <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">02:27, 9 December 2009
 * What the FUCK is she doing out of the kitchen? :< Thunda_Sig_2.png Pimp strong  hand  02:33, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * lol, I don't even cook when I HAVE a boyfriend, let alone when I'm single. Sorry, Thunda. ♥  [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  02:42, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I volunteer my talkpage. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  02:42, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * If you're offering the blowjob, I'm not going to turn it down. [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  02:42, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

RezSig &rarr; ?
Which skill should replace Rez Signet in fast auto-rez areas (say, in AB?). We need some suggestions in the variants section. --War Pig5 01:52, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Sprint imo. There are better warriors than this for AB, though. --67.176.107.126 02:24, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * What if you used Lion's Comfort on this in AB? Then you'd have a good self heal. 145.94.74.23 10:07, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I typically run Conjure Shock for more DPS, but that's just me. --SoraMitsukai 14:24, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Keen Chop
Was testing this skill today against the dummys in Isle of the Nameless and it does (with Sundering mod) 67-83 dmg on 60 AL, 50-66 dmg on 80 AL and 37-53 damage on 100 AL (using 14 Axe Mastery). Since your main target would be casters and not warriors, this skill would provide quite some nice increase in DPS since it only cost 3 adrenaline. --Arthas 04:57, 27 March 2008 (EDT)


 * It's just a critical hit...  06:31, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Why?
Did Skakid restore Mizzouman's vote? -- Guild of  Deals  13:01, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * For the lulz? Ill remove.  13:01, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Merging
In my oppinion there are so many axe builds that have evis,executioner,frenzy and rush the only difference is 1 skill like shock or rending touch i think we should add them all to a variant of ONE build
 * See Build talk:R/Mo Burning Arrow Ranger.  14:08, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

THose have different elites skills there are too many evis builds
 * Sign comments with 4 ~'s. And no, each build has a different strategy to its utility.  20:34, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Cause people are nubs and wont know how to use it unless its in usage.--Underwood 20:41, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
 * already have way too many Eviscerate . It makes more sense to merge into a general Eviscerate build.
 * That's essentially every Eviscerate build. Then we have Disrupting Dagger, Shock, Natural Healing, Harrier's Haste, Rending Touch, Executioner's Strike, Death's Charge, etc, etc. [[image:IAmJebus_sig.jpg|20px]] I Am    *  Jebus  *  12:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * NO. -<font color="Black">Shen 12:26, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Body Blow?
Why is it on the main bar? Executioners does more damage. Prokiller88 12:29, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Cooler animation. &mdash;  Skakid  12:31, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Second source of DW > 2 extra damage. And yes, cooler animation.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 12:32, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * And who doesn't use orb? Racthoh 13:20, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Brave people who don't use bsurge. &mdash;  Skakid  13:35, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Or foolish people who don't use BSurge. --SoraMitsukai 14:25, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
 * 1 less adren is also pretty nice in some situations. Also, lightning orb (and paragons who always have cracked armor anyway).  The cooler animation was the tipping point for me though, not going to lie. Pluto 23:41, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Sorry to bring this back up, but is there any reason at all that body blow isn't main bar? I mean, any good reason at all? Pluto 00:05, 20 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Liek 2 damage, obviously. ~.~ The one strike of adrenaline doesn't mean much, though, since you have to charge Eviscerate first. If you lower Strength, however, Executioner's is definitely better. The Variants still suggest that Body Blow is on the main bar, though. XD ــмıкε  нaшк  00:15, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

Moar Variants
Enraging Charge and Flail could replace Frenzy and Rush. If you have trouble keeping up with kiters when using Flail, Axe Rake should work. Axe Rake would also work similarly to Grasping Earth, which you've got in your Variants. I'm not saying it would work better, but if you wanted to use this build for AB (which it currently isn't tagged for O.o), you'd be able to deal a quicker, less predictable spike. -Mike 21:37, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It isn't tagged for AB because it doesn't work in PvE areas. --71.229.204.25 21:41, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * ^^ So true [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 21:58, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

It actually can work in PvE areas, I would just go Conjure over Shock and have one hell of a spike. (71.82.137.61 23:27, 21 April 2008 (EDT))

Lol
Skakid restored Mizzouman2002's epic vote. - <font color="#000080">(ō'shən thĕ skâr'krō') [snō hwīt tăn]  22:06, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I almost removed it again, but then I came to my senses. Pluto 23:41, 14 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Pussy. &mdash;  Ska K  id  23:46, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Ebon axe
Why? Limu Tolkki 11:54, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Whacking other warriors. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 12:21, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
 * To explain, warriors take less damage from physical than elemental because of Adsorption runes and higher armour. &not; Klump  eet  11:48, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 * well, idk about the absorption rune there... higher armor against physical dmg yeah, but who runs runes of absorption? 76.98.149.51 05:55, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You want specific names or what? Some people do wear a rune of Superior Absorption. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  05:59, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Clarity > Absorption. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:54, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Those aren't mutually exclusive. Also, I'm just saying that some people do wear superior absorptions so Klumpeet's point wasn't as totally random as 76.98.149.51 suggested. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  04:17, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It's more about warrior's inherent +20 armor vs. physical. An ebon axe is the equivalent of 20% armor penetration 100% of the time excluding shields. I seldom actually use ebon because it's the smartest choice being the least common type of damage, so smart warriors will probably shield swap to an earth damage shield when other warriors are whacking on them. I mix it up a bit depending on my team. Absorption runes are a dumb choice because no one uses physical damage against warriors anyway. If they do, they are bad and you should be able to beat them without absorption runes. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  04:41, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Some people wear the damn runes. Whether they're bad or not is beside the point. Klumpeet wasn't incorrect in saying it bypasses the absorption bonuses as well as the +20 physical resistance. He wasn't advocating their use and neither am I, but the fact exists that there are people out there (especially in AB and RA) who use them. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  04:55, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

the top 100 admit to the dps sucking on this build so bad it's not viable for ra/ maybe ta thats a BIG maybe &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wrath of the sin (contribs).
 * Are you joking? Viable in RA? Anything is viable in RA. Also the damage on a Shock Axe is more than adequate to push through kills especially when combined with the disruption of two knockdowns and usually an interrupt. People tend to run a hammer or a cripslash in TA, but you could use a Shock Axe if you so desired. they are dumb - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  03:03, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Totally rescind the above statement, edited to reflect current feelings. Axes are sex. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   (TALK)  04:47, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Shock axe owns ra more then hammers tbh. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  15:19, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * ^ ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 16:20, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It owns gw more then anything tbh
 * No, good Monks and Imbagons do; this just makes it a hell of a lot easier. =P ــмıкε  нaшк  09:26, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
 * "the top 100 admit to the dps sucking on this build" what kind of fail top 100s are you talking to? Zzes Tyan 21:57, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

The time has come
To merge all these Eviscerate Warriors into one page. Variant section ftw. Zuranthium 03:44, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh my god Zuranthium, are you bored these days, do you have nothing better to do than cause drama on the wiki? There is no point in merging all the Eviscerate warriors, it's not like we are running out of server space, there is also already a guide at Guide:Eviscerate Warrior so people can refer to that OR go look at the individual templates. Shock Axe is also Shock Axe and deserves it's own page. One of the biggest problems with merging them all is that it doesn't really give any indication of which are the better variants not to mention a build page as epicly long as that guide. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   (TALK)  04:22, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Link to the guide in the intro Paragraph, the Usage and/or See Also and then we can rate each version individually and it will be easier for people to find in Good/Great/Other builds. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  04:32, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That "guide" is terrible. It doesn't actually help anyone play Warrior any better. All of these Eviscerate pages are dumb. Keeping them suggests that we should have a different page for every build variant. Oh look, I brought SoA instead of Aura on my RC. New build page! Oh look, I brought P-lock instead of P-leak on my Mesmer. New build page! It's pointless and creates clutter. Zuranthium 12:31, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh and also - "One of the biggest problems with merging them all is that it doesn't really give any indication of which are the better variants". The better variant depends on meta, area of use, team build, and opponent. It's silly to quantify each one. Zuranthium 12:48, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Go fucking write a better one then. I only made it to throw all the variants on one page, which is exactly what it is. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 14:51, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * O_O . No need to get butt-hurt. Zuranthium 15:04, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes there is. shitstorms on half the eviscerate W/* builds lead to me writing it. Ichigo  724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 15:07, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Adding to it doesn't change the fact that all of these other Eviscerate build pages are just creating clutter and need to be merged. As for improving the guide, just add a link to this: http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3484 . ;) Zuranthium 15:16, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * How exactly is "clutter" possible in a computer database? SEARCH:Eviscerate Shock, RETURN:Shock Axe, SEARCH:Eviscerate Rip, RETURN:Rip Axe. ZOMG! SEARCH FUNCTION! - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   (TALK)  15:19, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Or you could have just added it in stead of linking it here. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 15:23, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Going to the build section and seeing a bunch of needless pages is clutter. *shrug* Zuranthium 17:37, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * You clutter build pages or you clutter search pages. I know which I prefer. Third option is to cut a lot of variants. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   (TALK)  17:42, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Keeping all of the information on one page just makes it easier.

Split articles are also easier when a variant is archived due to being surpassed and/or nerfed, mrite? --Srs Beans 04:44, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * If a variant is nerfed you removed it from the variant section. Oh boy. Zuranthium 12:31, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Anyway, you can't fucking delete Shock Axe. It's so good it deserves a section all it's own. TBH, merging shouldn't be done without concensus, and by concensus I mean more than 1 person decides it. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 12:33, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Obviously some other people need to agree, which is why I didn't already do it already. As for Shock Axe being "so good it deserves it's own section" - not really. Shock is simply another skill an Eviscerate Warrior can utilize. In fact, if we want to look at actual GvG results, there was only 1 Monthly out of the past 9 where the winning guild used a Shock Axe. ;) Zuranthium 13:00, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That probably has more to do with the guilds using a signet mesmer or two for KDs and such combined with the state of the meta. Shock Axe will be back. It always comes back.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 15:06, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Tbh I never saw the reasoning for 8 pages.  —Ska Kid  12:40, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Shock Axe plus random utility axes tbh. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   (TALK)  14:50, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * A build shouldn't be merged if the skill in question would change the way the build is played. I've tried before. User:Shadowsin/R/Mo General Utility No, It was more reference to a similar situation but this is different I suppose. -- ﮎHædõ๘  یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 15:42, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Are you saying that ranger builds are relevant in this dicussion? Because if so, you're wrong. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:06, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, Conjure doesn't really count as "utility". I don't see the big need to preserve the sole Shock Axe page. It's a single skill that should be changed based up whatever is best for the given situation. Changing to like Antidote Sig or Rip Enchant doesn't really change the function of the build. Replacing Rush with Sprint is really just as much of a change because it suggests the Warrior is going to be splitting a lot more and we don't have an entire separate build page for that. These things are just something that you switch around given circumstance. Don't need a dozen build pages for it. Zuranthium 17:31, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

PvXwiki stores builds. That's its purpose: a build database (See: Main Page). We, the contributors, maintain the accuracy of that database and categorize the builds into function and vetting category. The purpose isn't to improve performance of players in any greater detail than "Here is a common set of skills people run and how they work together". That's what guilds and actually playing the game is for. Users of PvXwiki don't see the "clutter". They come and look for Great/Good builds for a specific type of PvP or PvE and for a certain profession and then browse the options. So, creating a guide for something like the Evis bar and deleting all the individual pages is not a good idea for several reasons. So, to be perfectly honest, just make the guide and link to it on the builds that relate to it. If people want to see the guide, then they can. If they want to see the build then they can. And what's the horrible, unbearable downside to this? There's 5 links under "Great PvP Builds (W)" instead of 1. ZOMG! - PANIC!   <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  18:44, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * 1) People coming here want builds, not all-encompassing guides for core bars.
 * 2) The "Guides" section doesn't feature on PvX and it's not a default for the search. If people can't find Shock or Rending Axe in about 3 minutes, they'll give up and google it instead.
 * 3) One of the best features of PvX is the PvXbig GUI on each of the pages. It's really great to be able to mouseover and see how the bar looks once it's loaded. It saves you having to swap back and forth from GW to see the duration/damage/etc on the skills. Moving skills off the main bar detracts from this.
 * 4) In the same theme as #3, PvXbig puts the build template code in easy reach.
 * 5) We aren't stressing the servers AT ALL. There is no hardware reason for us to combine the pages.
 * 6) Having separate pages means that we can easily archive selected bars and rate the optional skills in relation to each other and even archive a build properly if it falls out of meta severely enough.
 * 7) We can keep variants classified for different areas. For instance: Shadow Axe and Shock Axe.
 * 8) We might hold elitist policies about builds on here, but we all know that the only people who use PvX are those who want to copypasta a template code noone happens to have handy and people who are newbies. Mostly the latter.
 * And shock is pretty bloody different cause I can tell you now, there are a shitload of warriors who can't call a spike using Bull's. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   (TALK)  19:10, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * "Having separate pages means that we can easily archive selected bars and rate the optional skills in relation to each other." - It's worthless to do this. All the optional skills are better than each other for a different purpose. If a skill doesn't have a useful purpose then you don't list it.
 * "One of the best features of PvX is the PvXbig GUI on each of the pages. It's really great to be able to mouseover and see how the bar looks once it's loaded. It saves you having to swap back and forth from GW to see the duration/damage/etc on the skills. Moving skills off the main bar detracts from this." - The core skills to the bar are all the same. How does it help anything to list Rip or P-spike or D-dagger in separate pages? If anything, having more variants on one build page helps newer players to understand the different uses better, rather than just playing the build that has the highest rating. The same goes for the argument of having skill bars loaded - you have have to put in one extra skill after loading the bar. Wow, big deal. Zuranthium 19:48, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * 1. The optional skills are useful for different purposes right now but nerfs happen. If Izzy wakes up tomorrow and nerfs something out of popular use then we should archive it like we always have; not delete a variant from a build/guide. So it's not worthless to keep them separate.
 * 2. Because new players aren't familiar with the secondary effects of those skills or their recharges, casting time, cost, etc. Also, given the option of selecting a secondary profession and then finding and loading the skill you want or just pasting in the whole template bar, why wouldn't you choose the template bar?
 * (1.) Huh, lol? Deleting a variant is extremely easy. (2.) Uh, yeah, and they will become familar with the secondary effects by clicking on the skill listed in the optional section and then reading about it on wiki. Zuranthium 19:58, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * (1.) I didn't say it wasn't easy. I said it should be archived instead. (2.) Once again, it's easier and faster for a user to put it on the bar. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  04:23, 1 August 2008 (EDT)


 * In any case, I'm pretty sure this is just going to end in drama one way or the other so if you do end up merging the builds, just do the wiki a favor and make sure the page is as user friendly and easily accessable as the builds are now. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  04:41, 30 July 2008 (EDT)


 * In regards to Z's last point, he's right. And you can still see how it behaves. Example:

[build prof=warri/any axemas=12+1+1 streng=12+1][eviscerate][body blow][disrupting chop][optional][bulls strike][frenzy][rush][Resurrection Signet][/build]  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş   21:07, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * [[Shock@3]
 * [[Conjure Flame], [[Conjure Lightning], or [[Conjure Frost]
 * [[Meteor Shower]
 * [[Expunge Enchantment]
 * [[Mending@3]
 * [[You're all faggots@go fuck yourselves]
 * lol, Meteor Shower doesn't work with Stonefist, unfortunately. ــмıкε  нaшк  22:04, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * u forgot 1, fixed it up for ya -- Infested <font color="#00868B">Hydralisk [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig2.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 23:07, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I forgot 2!  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 23:09, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * +1 -- Infested <font color="#00868B">Hydralisk [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig2.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 23:14, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Glyph of Essence + Phoenix imo. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:19, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * lets remove evis from the bar for the glyph then -- Infested <font color="#00868B">Hydralisk [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig2.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 23:20, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Why not just make a standard evis bar with the empty slots, and then list all the other evis builds it that build's variant section (or something of the like)? Variant section would have links to the builds and quick blurb describing them: basically the same as the guide, but makes it more streamlined. Thoughts? Pluto 01:26, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * W/E Shock Axe: most common build featuring shock as a touch-ranged, unconditional kd
 * W/N Rip Axe: uses the necro skill rip enchant to do... something.
 * W/A POLLY EXPUNGE WARRIOR: Wins on shear manliness alone.
 * Shock, Rend/Rip/PSpike, Conjure/Hex Breaker/other shit, maybe? So we have Shock, then the disruption variants, then the maintained stuff ones. --71.229 01:33, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * ^, but isn't shock meant to be used to disrupt? ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 01:37, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, but it's the main build. --71.229 01:40, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Meh, if zuranthium wants too, and can make it look nice, more power to him. Pluto's suggestion would fit in with it all nicely. ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 01:49, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

I just found this.Granted its not as pretty as it could be, but apparently the idea was shot down before. I dislike it when things suddenly become a good idea because an older user suggested it. ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ  02:00, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

People Don't Want to merge Cuz they would lose That Thing on their User Page " I Made Shock War Great Build ", but if it would be merged then it would be that Wiki Made it : D  ~Enar.   hello.  08:49, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That only explains why I don't want it merged, but I'm not the only person in opposition. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   (TALK)  08:57, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * The problem is, that those optional utilities go against the Dupe tag, as just about every Eviscerate bar is a dupe of Shock Axe. We could keep Shock Axe, or emphasize on its use, and merge the others, because, obviously, Shock Axe is the most popular and traditional. There are just too many of these Axe bars, and we've got to stop it somewhere. ــмıкε  нaшк  13:33, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Leave them seperate, I would rather came here to find lots of similiar builds then a loads of guides.  Frosty  No U!  13:35, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Zuranthium has a good point here. Since that Rip axe build got posted, it's pretty obvious that things are starting to get out of hand. What I propose is that we make the one /any Eviscerate build, and we keep the more popular or unique Evis builds (Shock, Harrier's, Symbolic, only these three) and delete the other ones, and follow it up with the links from the /any to the aforementioned three builds like Pluto suggested. Discuss. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 13:40, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * It shouldn't be a guide, but an "Eviscerate Warrior" build with one or two optional slots, and notes on usage depending on the different skills you would use. ــмıкε  нaшк  13:37, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

Don't bother Zuranthium. The majority of users will just cry, and nothing will get accomplished. --<font color="Black">Readem 13:38, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * We could just archive all of the Axe builds, and then make a new one (and link to the old ones, if we choose to), just like they did for Archive:W/E Conjure Cripslash and Archive:W/E Crippling Slash Warrior. ــмıкε  нaшк  13:40, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't see the need for that. You just need the one page. If all these separate build pages went into the subtleties of how to use each skill, then I could see the value in having separate pages. But they don't. They just say use "use Rip to remove enchantments". "Use Power Spike / Disrupting Dagger to interrupt". "Use Death's Charge to teleport". As such, it's a waste of space. Zuranthium 19:58, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * But we've already established that wasting space isn't an issue. Archive the old ones, make a new one, kill the Evis. guide.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 20:52, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * like SS rits =o -- Infested <font color="#00868B">Hydralisk [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig2.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 21:00, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * They have many different skills- some do more consistant pressure and others are spikelike and shit. This is a question of 1 to 2 skills being changed that doesn't affect too greatly how the build is being played.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 23:04, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Shock, Rend Enchantments, Rip Enchantment, Rending Touch, Antidote Signet, Mending Touch, etc. are all just utilities, anyway. ــмıкε  нaшк  23:15, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Ok, everyone shut up. The idea's a go. I can see that the hugeass list of variants is already going to be a problem. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 23:22, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, the variant section would be the same as any of the pages. There would simply be an additional listing right under the skill bar for the common optional skills. What do you mean by the idea's a go? Zuranthium 02:19, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Thing is Z, we've already established that space isn't really an issue. Having the different evis variants accessible on one page (ie, a standard evis build with a related builds section consisting of all these different variants) accomplishes any organizational benefits of merging just fine anyway. Sure, PvX doesn't need a billion different variants of the eviscerate warrior as a separate build, but then again, merely merging all the builds/deleting them doesn't really accomplish anything either. Pluto 00:21, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It accomplishes the goal of making the database look better. Maybe I value organization too highly, idk. Zuranthium 01:49, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Maybe. But have you seen the w/any evis warrior page?  To me, having a lot of similar builds seems to be a more manageable clutter than having a massive, cluttered build page.  I still think we just need to use a "related builds" section more than we currently do. Pluto 04:05, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The w/any evis page just needs to be formatted better. I'll go work on it. Zuranthium 12:48, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
 * http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:W/any_Eviscerate_Warrior. Looks great now. Don't see how you need any additional pages. Zuranthium 13:50, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

Shouldn't the creation of an all around eviscerate page warrant for deletion instead of archive? Brandnew. 12:34, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It could, but it doesn't really make a difference. We've still got Archive:W/E Conjure Cripslash. ــмıкε  нaшк  12:42, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Got a good reason to delete the old pages? No? Then STFU. - Misery  Is  Grumpy  [[image:miserysig3.png|19px]] 13:07, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, the fact that archive covers non-viability and shit. Jesus be damned if this isn't viable. Brandnew.  13:19, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

voting on this build
This is a warning, anyone who votes on this build, will be banned, you've all been warned enough times. <font color="#4F94CD"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#9400D3">Sysop   08:53, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * wow this seems serious, are Tab and 71.299 banned foreal? :o<font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Too Muh Bruh  15:19, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Until November 6th it looks like. Karate Jesus 15:32, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * ups<font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Too Muh Bruh  15:44, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Zzz pvx fails-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 16:31, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Zzz so does trolling, which is what putting that on the rating is, basically.  16:32, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * now the build is gone, look at what u did QQ<font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Too Muh Bruh  17:53, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * DON'T TALK ABOUT IT!!! bad things happen when you talk about Shoc....I'm too scared to say it's name. Karate Jesus 17:55, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * yeh.... actually, no <font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Too Muh Bruh  17:58, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

unarchive
Armonds told me over IRC that Auron thinks it's better this is brought out of the archive >.> <font color="#4F94CD"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#9400D3">Sysop   18:08, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * unban time? Karate Jesus 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * no. The cause of the bans is still justified. The build being Un-Archived doesn't change the fact they shouldn't have voted on it, when they voted it was still in the archive. <font color="#4F94CD"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#9400D3">Sysop   18:16, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Should this result in an apology to the pvxwiki community? Karate Jesus 18:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It should result in a "if you keep dicking around, this will become permanent" to the community. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   18:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * no one cares. community is bad. admins even worse. --<font color="Black">Readem 09:50, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. /wrists -> /rage. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 09:52, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * sorry, I don't speak retarded. --<font color="Black">Readem 09:55, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * I do, you have to if you want to work here. You also have to speak emo and ragey. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 10:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

This is
Underpowered -- Frosty  18:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * needs echo so you could actually echo shock, tripple profession would be overpowered this much<                       >(not to scale)<font color="#009933">Close[[Image:CloseImpactSW.jpg|19px]]Impact<font color="#003300"> Too Muh Bruh  18:52, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * .... Why was it unarchived? W/Any Eviscerate Warrior was supposed to combine them. J  ustin  6  [[image:Justing6_siggypic.png|19px]] 19:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Because its historical, and tbh gtfo. :) --<font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk) (Contr.) 19:45, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * That, tbh. Shock axe is shock axe, not "w/any eviscerate warrior." It is the most common build, by far, and while the rest of them can have a generic template, shock axe isn't shock axe without shock and an axe.
 * Merging some builds are ok, especially if all the builds are not very well known. Merging shock axe into a generic template is not ok at all - other things can be listed as variants to the shock axe, but shock axe isn't a variant of "w/any eviscerate warrior." - Auron 23:49, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * All the other builds are based off shock axe pretty much-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 01:50, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Tbh, we might be better off just having Shock Axe and listing all of the variant utilities on this page. The variant builds seem to be dying out, anyway. =/ ــмıкε  нaшк  08:46, 2 November 2008 (EST)
 * When I think of Evsicerate, I think of Shock Axe and Variants, not . ــмıкε  нaшк  08:48, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Sign here to put this into Uber category.
signed Amorality 08:40, 2 November 2008 (EST)


 * Actually, this is mediocre in RA and TA. Also, it's not uber because that would imply brokeness. Finally, you're autistic. 67.81.108.211 17:33, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 * Tell us how it is "mediocre?" - <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;border-color:black;background-color:white;padding:0px 1px 0px 1px"><font face="verdana" color="black">Mc <font face="verdana" color="black">Tai [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image_2.png|19px]]19:26, 12 November 2008 (EST) 


 * Nothing tingles my loins like getting backlined and lacking the pressure of sustained knockdowns that double as interrupts in a pressure-based meta. 67.81.108.211 17:37, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 * Bull's->Shock=6s... Unless I misread that strange sentence...  20:11, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 * In TA, Hammers are better, or Cripslash, more pressure than this. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 05:32, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Rather take an axe over Cripslash tbh. Have you heard of Foul Feast? - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 05:46, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Foul Feast counters Deep Wound, I KNOW LETS TAKE AN ED RANGER NO CONDITIONS THERE. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 05:48, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * But if you apply the deep wound, they should be dead, problem is, if they remove the bleeding, no deep wound QQ. Cripslash has a much heavier reliance on conditions tbh. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 05:59, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Yea but axes are pretty meh in TA tbh, maybe endurance axe but shock axe isn't the best choice. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 06:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Not really; axes are still strong. It's just that pretty much anyone in TA has to backline like half the match, thus you need the dev hammer. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  06:24, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Bulls->Shock=6s, yes, but, Earth Shaker->Crushing->Hammer Bash=6s of KD with damage with DW. It's also able to be repeated far more often (once every 11 seconds, the recharge of Crushing Blow plus, give or take, it's activation). Don't forget your necro has rend, corrupt or rip, which is really all that matters since the target won't be protted by more than one prot, just guardian. Any team can syncronize a spike if needed and again, a hammer excels in this capacity more than axe, which can be kited and the damage spaced out if you are not frugal with bulls and the cripslash, which will be feasted the second bleeding hits. 67.81.108.211 08:37, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Lolfallacies. If you Bull's->Spike on a hammer, why can't you Bull's->Spike on an axe? That being said, most people do prefer a hammer in TA at the moment, but an axe is perfectly viable and it really comes down to team build and personal preference. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 08:55, 13 November 2008 (EST)

axe only works in dual war. cripslash is kind of terrible with 20 sec disarm. --<font color="Black">Readem 09:49, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * Mrs Furion still runs axe for what I've seen, and he's prob the best ta'er at euro times. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  10:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * nop. Void is the best euro times. He runs axe too, but they will lose to standard balanced due to massive gay linebacking wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee ^_^_^_^_^_^_^ --<font color="Black">Readem 10:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Autism? Amorality 13:17, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * any more the eviscerate executioners strike spike dont work that much but its fairly effective. very weak against any type of anti-melee and shock is a costly interrupt skill. -- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 11:47, 14 November 2008 (EST)
 * Exactly --<font color="Black">J0 <font color="LightGreen">™ 07:49, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Frosty's Vote
<i>Yes thats right, not great, at all.

Ok with Primal Rage at the moment you can put on much more pressure than evisc as well as do a fuckton of damage, while still being able to have to optional slot (shock) for utility.

For a spike caller War's Endurance does more straight up damage more often making this less desirable.

Shock Axe may be the old school warriors build, but in the end of the day with both Warrior's Endurance and Primal Rage here, this is no longer the standard axe warrior, and is infact one of if not the least used.

Archive.</i>

Other builds have a fuckton of damage, this has more utility. While other axe builds may be more meta, this hasn't stopped use completely, nor will it ever I feel. Discuss. 17:03, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Shock axe isn't bad; not at all. If you think otherwise, you a fucking terrible. However, Primal Rage is a tiny bit more effective (merely due to the constant IAS for dismember). The IMS is also quite decent. The biggest reason people have opted for primal over evis, is because primal is so much fun. --<font color="Black">Readem 17:16, 12 January 2009 (EST)
 * Plus it means even crossfire could land bulls 86.154.16.238 18:24, 12 January 2009 (EST)
 * lets not ask for miracles k? --<font color="Purple">Ojamo  <font color="Green">(>.<( O=(- -Q)  23:00, 12 January 2009 (EST)
 * A warrior needs needs two things, an IAS and IMS. Primal Rage satisfies this rage against indecency by providing Warriors with the most OPed skill anet can make for a warrior, Frenzy+33%Rush.--<font color=#585858>Relyk <font color=#66CCFF>_||_ <font color=#333300> I hammers u! 23:51, 12 January 2009 (EST)

@I Am Jebus: what utility does shock axe have that prage axe doesn't? the answer is nothing, and prage actually has more utility with the ability to zoom zoom around the map to go pew pew things that are not at stand.71.230.145.170 13:04, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Archive?
Prage outshines this--Relyk 07:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Its still used in HA as a spike caller, cause it has more domages, but as you can see the GvG tag has been removed. [[Image:Frostrage.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> po!  07:56, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * k just checking--Relyk 07:58, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

i believe!
in the second coming of our lord and savior Shock Axe. anyone else? Shock Axe group meetings are on fridays. please bring at least 1 plate of food. praise shock axe and down the prage satan! Funkopotomis 18:19, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * you're trying a little bit too hard;oClose Impact 16:17, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

PR got headshotted
welcome back 17:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Sup Shock Axe, you didn't miss much! <font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 17:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * hey! you were supposed to bring food >.> Funkopotomis 18:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The King has returned! 67.86.84.167 04:03, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Exe v BBlow
This is a thing debated with every build. Wouldn't Executioner's be better because Evis reqs 8 adrenaline anyways? -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Body Blow has an amazing animation + better skill art (but yes) [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 12:08, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Free DW against paras or with a b-surge carried by half the teams anyway. 2 damage doesn't matter. ~ [[Image:Tycncookiesig.jpg|19px]] Tycn   [a]   12:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just took a look at the animation. Looks paragon-ish. -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:12, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not everyone is a spikefag, but it really doesn't even matter. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   12:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * BB is slightly better overall, but I don't want to get into a revert war for something so trivial. ~ [[Image:Tycncookiesig.jpg|19px]] Tycn   [a]   12:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * i do --Mafaraxas 05:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Yay!
WE is nerfed so we can go back to running shock axe <33. 71.202.188.133 23:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Another skill bites tha DUST-AH! </3.. Closer to Skill-Death GWars be. --BlazingBurdy 01:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Proph build
Seeing as Body Blow is in over Execs Strike, this is no longer a Prophecies build. Can someone who knows what they're doing change the cats to reflect this? 217.44.143.140 09:35, September 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't really matter, because running this with Exec>Body Blow is just as good, really. Brandnew 10:35, September 20, 2009 (UTC)