Archive talk:D/P EDA Blindbot

WTB moar feedback.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  23:16, 20 January 2008 (EST)


 * Ele blindbots are more effective. Kinda hard to use attacks to blind as opposed to a single spell[[image:Inv.Pacifism.jpg‎|19px]]Crossfirexiv  (contribs)   23:17, 20 January 2008 (EST)


 * Not for RA/TA &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  23:19, 20 January 2008 (EST)


 * [EC] In RA/TA you're not spiking so that's pretty much all the damage threat of a b-surger gone. Spamming attacks is fine with 3 adrenaline skills, and against assassins or warriors about to unload you can just use Disrupting Throw for instant blindness.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  23:22, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * Thoose are strong in ra/ta if played by proper ppl, stronger then a anti melee necro etc, and att the same time adds physical pressure. [[Image:Fish_Signature.jpg|User:Fish]] Fishy Moo oo  05:06, 21 January 2008 (EST)


 * Eh..... not sure how WELL this will work... lol PVX humor :P. Erm, i worry about energy, and i think eles can blind better.  I guess this can work, but theres better builds.--[[Image:DestinyOfKiestsig.jpg|19px]]♪Destiny Of Kiest♪  (talk / pvxcontribs ) 20:57, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Not liking Spear of Redemption. Mighty Throw? -Shen 20:58, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * It's pretty leet against blind, and doesn't take so long to trigger. Plus, it's a cheap adren skill to spam blind and +dmg with. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:03, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * If you're blind, chances are you're not gaining adrenaline. -Shen 21:04, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * So keep it in reserve if there's a blindbot about. --71.229.204.25 21:07, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * You can't keep it in reserve if you're blinded. -Shen 21:11, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * The advantage to SoR is its versatility, Mighty Throw is too slow and clunky and Remedy Signet is always an option.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  21:17, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * By "keep it in reserve," I meant "if there's a blindbot, don't use it until you're blinded." :/ --71.229 21:33, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * I still don't get it. If you're blinded, you can't build adrenaline to use it. Which is why I don't like Spear of Redemption. However I can see how its primary function as a spammable adrenaline charged skill works in this build. -Shen 21:36, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * Charge adrenaline
 * Get blinded
 * Use Spear of Redemption
 * Proceed to 1
 * If you can't find a four-second gap where you aren't blind to charge SoR, you're doing it wrong. --71.229 21:40, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * If you don't B-Surge the Ebon Dust Aura Derv, you're certainly doing it wrong. -Shen 21:45, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * This discussion is getting very silly. There's counters to both, and if we keep going on this path we're going to end up at LOL DIVERSION COUNTERS EVERYTHING just like Izzy's talk page.  A good Bsurge will counter the hell out of this build just like every physical, but it's much less vulnerable to blind than most. --71.229 21:54, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * Agreed. -Shen 21:56, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * LOL DIVERSION COUNTERS EVERYTHING ▪  √ēт   [no :D u]  22:04, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * LOL DIVERSION COUNTERS EVERYTHING ▪  √ēт   [no :D u]  22:04, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Remedy signet instead of spear of redemption?- &#91;&#91;User:Jak123X&#124;&lt;font color=red&gt;&#39;&#39;&#39;Jak123X&#39;&#39;&#39;&lt;/font&gt;]]]] 18:17, 24 January 2008 (EST)


 * Very good for RA/TA, works good (tried myself :D). It fits the "new meta" whereas support is becoming more friendly rather than the standard (ele nuker, warrior attacker, monk healer, etc), different profession have new roles involving keeping your team alive.  More specificly imbue health.  Very nice.[[image:Inv.Pacifism.jpg‎|19px]]Crossfirexiv  <font color="goldenrod" face="arial bold">(contribs)   13:47, 27 January 2008 (EST)

"Use resurrection signet to waste enemy ranger's energy". Wtf? Since when do people use rez sig as e-denial. Someone explain or remove it.--99.225.4.255 01:20, 29 January 2008 (EST)
 * I assume they meant canceling to draw interrupts, but it's a stupid comment. Removed. --71.229.204.25 01:22, 29 January 2008 (EST)


 * also, edenialing rangers is lulz &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:43, 1 February 2008 (EST)


 * It was a comment written at about 4AM.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  22:45, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Skakid's Revisions
I don't like 'em. I wasn't a big fan of Spear of Redemption myself, but at least keep Mystic Regen. It was a self heal and a pretty good one. Armor of Sanctity just isn't worth it. -- Guild of  Deals  10:56, 2 February 2008 (EST)

HoF is a great skill. Mystic Regen is mainly for RA, but it's better than AoS either way.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  17:55, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * new version is godawful. hof is half the build, and mystic is good. now its using shit like swift javelin.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 19:55, 2 February 2008 (EST)

At least put Heart of Fury back. Swift Thief 20:51, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Ahem. AoS is a cheap spammable fast casting cover enchant, if the other team has half a brain they'll guardian the war before spikes and eentually he'll get lucky. With swift you can stop every spike guarenteed. HoF is decent, but compared to cripping something your warrior is training, it falls short. We document builds for the hgihest level of play (TA) rather than their lowest one (RA). We don't make the RA bar standard and then make TA bar a variant. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:00, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * Swift is okay but tbh mystic is just as effective a cover, energy is never a problem when the rof are returning crazy energy on you. cripple is okay, but i'll miss hof. and imbue kicks in TA. its an off monk infuse, and allows your midline to play offensively. [[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 21:22, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * fuck i'm blind.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 21:22, 2 February 2008 (EST)


 * energy's a problem when you're spamming maiming (a.k.a, healing yourself and your team more than mystic ever could, and reducing more damage or causing it then you could do with HoF) &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:28, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * All maiming does is reduce your versatility. if blind is getting removed, cripple will be too. i'd rather have a second skill to facilitate blind easily(i.e. redemption) i know maining does that too, but its waste ful to maim a non bleeding target, i.e. the one your'e attacking, instead of being able to switch. one of the great strengths of this build is that even in TA it beign able to stand alone for much of the game(barring hexes, and focused damage) will relieve pressure off your back and mid and it still contributes hugely to the game. HoF gives it unprecedented amounts of damage off a d/p. when you compare this to a necro anti melee, or any squishy midliner, the superiority is obvious. by removing mystic regen and hof it becomes another squishy midline. by changing the skills, its being treated as a bastardized bsurge, and thats exactly how crap like the r/d versions get made. its not a bsurge. its a resilient dps machine that can shutdown a frontline and still keep the backline on its feet.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 21:40, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * wrong &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:40, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * No.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 21:41, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * dark stfu 84.9.10.165 21:42, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * Whisper.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 21:44, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * noted 84.9.10.165 21:44, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * Moo.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 21:46, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * For the highest level of play, you can ask your monk for a cover. Which is why I'm putting back HoF.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  00:37, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Monks in TA need all their energy, really. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  00:40, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * That depends on your entire team. run a defensive build with an OoS as the middy and the monk can guardian to his hearts content, and even prot spirit/sb a lil too.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 08:41, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * The additional pressure that you're putting out somewhat counteracts the 5 energy that your monk has to spend.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  19:06, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Your monk can't always spend 5 energy. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  19:11, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Can their's?  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  19:17, 3 February 2008 (EST)

I agree that Heart of Fury needs to be main build. It's too good to leave out. Between that change and the variant section, everyone should be happy now. Zuranthium 16:12, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * Skakid, stop being dumb and editing the build. The cover enchant is Vigorous Spirit from your Monk. When was the last time you even did this kind of team build in TA? 4 of us disagree with you. You've been outvoted. Zuranthium 16:18, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * I don't run HC shit. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  16:22, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * You know, I don't think I've ever seen a monk run Vigorous Spirit outside of the old Locust's Fury/Fear Me teams. Plenty of wammos, but no monks. --71.229 16:24, 8 February 2008 (EST) PvX isn't a democracy, you silly.
 * You're missing out then. Lots of Monks run Vig Spirit in teams with 3 Physicals. Zuranthium 16:26, 8 February 2008 (EST)
 * Can we just bring back the old build? This one lacks the self-survivability that made if so good in RA. TA doesn't really need it, but still. After Skakid's revisions, it needs to be revetted. It has some major differences. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  07:22, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * The self-survivability skills are in the Variants section. It doesn't need to be re-vetted. I'm pretty sure everyone gets it. Zuranthium 18:37, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Been running that in RA and it's been very effective. -- Guild of  Deals  07:19, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Swift is territerribad in RA. If its some sort of blockwhore its not going to do much damage. and redemption makes you that much harder to shut. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 12:32, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

Swift is an unblockable fast attack. Its great for Crit sins to get crit defense now. (Mr Pink57 00:17, 1 May 2008 (EDT))

Archival
Seems unnecessary to me, because if you go by the logic that enchantment removal is common, most PvP (or RA/TA) builds would be archived as well. It's kind of like how Shattering Assault or Dark Apostasy Scythe sins are becoming more and more popular in PvP but most Monks in TA/RA use Prot/Heal hybrids with Guardian (and other prots of course) which would be stripped right away. -Mike 20:57, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
 * EDA has a 20 second recharge, so does Rend. When you rend this char, it's pretty useless, if you rend a monk they can still accomplish their job. [[Image:mightymouse.gif|25px]] moush  00:19, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Also the Blind is being countered by Foul feast.  The Necro will draw a....10 second blind of an ally with fould feast, then plague signet it onto another foe increasing it to 30 seconds (200% of 10).  So now the derv is blinded and sucks.--<font color="black" face="hyborian">X [[Image:Crossfire Godlysig.png|19px]] 14  06:58, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

WTF?! I searched for this build and found it in archived... Ok, I understand its countered in TA, but in RA ppl DONT rend and FF necros are about 5% of players. I suggest to cancel archive and just remove the TA tag, beacuse its pretty powerfull in disabling psychical things in RA. (sorry with edits, I have problems with damn sig) Black Sheep2 15:37, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree; I've had some pretty good runs with this in RA. -Mike 15:38, 21 June 2008 (EDT)


 * /agreed, in RA it is still at least "good", if you meet a ff nec you are unlucky, but it is like with any build, there is always a counterpart to anything. [[Image:Aclawwhichisformysignaturetomakemehappy.jpeg|19px]] <font color="Darkblue">Looks like Breitschleif 12:19, 25 November 2008 (EST)
 * It's RA, also known as "we don't care". It is barely seen any more and NEVER seen in TA, so leave it in archive. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 12:21, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Foul feast/plague signet counter ANY condition build, and plenty of builds here rely on enchants >.> Watchu talkin bout willis? | Nalana  Darkling  |  01:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It actually isnt terrible in ra, you can keep 2 players blinded/bleeding/crippled which is handy and you dont die fast. I think it should be tagged for ra.--Relyk 01:53, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Responding to reasons for archive:

1. rend can make this build useless - well there's similar build for HB rated 'great' and Rend Enchantments is more common there than on RA or even TA 2. foul feast + plague sending - foul feast got nerf recently; it's nightmare for every build that relies on stacking conditions -. -- Matek  20:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Current Meta
Thanks to frosty for unarchiving. Bar could do with an update but due to rend being not meta and feast nerf this could be viable again. Discuss.--118.90.96.20 17:09, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Plus in stance meta he's a good place to pack wild throw.--118.90.96.20 17:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. imo wild for swift.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 17:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, you can slot brace with a tiny command spec and make gothspiek resign. Armor of Sanctity would probably be a better option for a cover for rip/elite rip. I'll get to editing article at some stage. Will also field one of these and see how it likes feast at 5r. Most TA necros don't 40/40 soul reaping it.--118.90.96.20 19:05, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * warriors bring grapple--Relyk 19:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And as long as you're spread out that shouldn't be much of an issue. Their spike is terrible if they all have to run into range, it's the shadowstep that coordinates it enough to kill. As long as you aren't clumped when that happens they can only KD one target off it.--118.90.96.20 09:05, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Great build? Seriously...
Has the people in RA degenerate into a stage that they can't tackle a dervish? I thought it being archived is a good indication of its narrow limitations.

Firstly, I have played as and against one, and I agree it is very efficient against physicals, but it is horribly useless against anything else. The best rating it should get is "Good" IMO. I mean its in the same category as a PBlock mesmer where both are build to be extremely lethal under specific conditions but at least PBlock mesmer can divert or empathy the melee whilst this EDA blindbot can't do anything to a caster. Disrupting throw is a laughable skill at most for interruption.

Secondly, I'm surprised that nobody placed "Susceptible to standard physical counters such as blind and hexes" under the notes section. you can argue that a monk can remove conditions and hexes easily since that's the only thing he has to worry about when you kept all the physicals blinded but we are talking about random arena here. Chances of a monk tending fully to that task is as slim as you getting an opponent team of 4 physicals. Necromancers and mesmers can rip you apart more easily as they would compared to other physical builds since you are horrible against them remember? 218.186.10.242 18:41, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Wild Throw for stance removal and to counter blocking.
 * Remedy Signet or Spear of Redemption for condition removal.

Both listed in the variants section. Selket Shadowdancer 19:32, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Ironically you've just prove my point correct. If a caster wants to blind you, he will reapply it faster than you can remove it just like what this build does but you can't do anything against the caster since you are horrible against them. 218.186.10.242 19:49, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Laughable interrupt, mild degen, no deep wound, kd, small dps and entirely strippable. This will get rick-rolled by pro caster-heavy teams easy as pie. --BlazingBurdy 04:45, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Pro-caster heavy teams? Any team will get steamrolled in TA if they incorporate this build. TA is a total different game when you faced at least a necromancer or mesmer in every match. And don't think for a second that they do not know what build you are running when you're a D/P holding a spear. 218.186.10.242 05:38, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Notice the TA tag. --71.229 05:07, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh look its in the good category now--Relyk 10:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If this crap is to be effective, it needs dw (merciless spear). Rupt is good for rupting key spells, and res sig's as well. --BlazingBurdy 04:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Shitty as hell in TA, but pretty damn effective in RA....I say you just remove the TA tag...FF is like, the meta-ist skill in the game...Almost every TA team has a necro with them. (Ignoring the RtL and Shove teams, anyway) Ben Tbh 23:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This definitly should not be Great in RA..... Sure perma blind is strong on melee, but this has nothing against anything that isn't melee. Chocobuny 21:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Suggesting vote wipe?

It's called Build Wars guys, welcome to the dead game. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  00:50, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * power creep--Relyk 00:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

change rate
change rate to great this is the best melee shutter ever
 * this is based on votes, not someone desiding how good it is -- -Ch  ao  s-   09:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * less swift javelin, more aos--Relyk 23:37, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Less baed, moar guud. Abuse AoS's buff and add dw [merciless spear, perhaps?]. Screw unblockable bs and imbue. --BlazingBurdy 17:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Great Status...
...without dw? Sexplain! --BlazingBurdy 17:08, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't need deep wound... --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 17:12, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just imagine it as a b surge but with higher armour, harder to shutdown, and probably more pressure! --Crow 18:06, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ask john for the bar he runs? I mean, he got like g7 on his first acc with it and god knows what on his new one. Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:17, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * He barely logs on ;o. --Crow 19:24, January 23, 2010 (UTC)