Archive talk:P/W "Watch Yourself!" SoR

Discusion
This is a near replica of the Paragon build I designed in the field, and I've never seen this until now. Only difference is I use Zealous Anthem instead of Aria of Zeal, and use Anthem of Flame instead of "Shields Up!". Hmmm... Urock 16:06, 22 May 2007 (CEST)

I've used something quite like this on hero paragon. Works very well on hero/hench parties, as they almost always stay within earshot. Cast mending refrain on each party member, keeping it up with 'They're on Fire' (I am a fire ele myself, + zhed with SF + mark of rodgort will create constant burning everywhere) will give the whole party a constant +4 health regen and about 33% dmg reduction. That combined with the elite shout that heals, it is a very powerfull combo. I had some more attacking skills in there though, so it could also deal some damage. Vex 23:37, 26 May 2007 (CEST)

AMAZING on Morgahn... frvwfr2  (talk···contributions) 22:18, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

I can't help but think that the spear mastery portion of the build is completely retarded. With 9 spear mastery, you can use a perfect max spear, which, before AL does 14-27 damage. With NO spear mastery skills, by endgame nightfall, you'll be doing about 10 damage a throw, which is just about useless. Why not take all those points out of spear mastery and redistribute them into leadership or/and tactics? 69.91.37.175 13:21, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

I agree. It's wasted attribute points. 71.28.80.246 17:11, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Have you considered dropping warrior all together and taking Command at 7 using stand your ground and Never surrender? Carbunkle 06:47, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

"Go for the Eyes!" and Aggressive Refrain probably deserve mention in the varients section. I run both on my only lvl 20 PvE char, a P/W. - 9tails 01:54, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

Wouldn't 11+1+3 motivation, 9+1 leadership, 8+1 spear mastery, 8 tactics work better? TheChosenDervish 7:28, 26 January 2008 (CEST)

sunspear skill
with the new paragon sunspear and the new luxon skills i think this would be awesome to put them in. half damage add in the warrior shout for 100+ armor. swweeeet 75.35.76.199 18:20, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

Those skills will be nerfed very soon. No changing. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 20:07, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

the problem with "save yourself" is that is does use a LOT of adren and building it up would take forever. and since it won't work on yourself it wouldn't be very good. plus you can't use sunspear skills on heros which is basically what this build is for. J1j2j3 08:05, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

Spear of Fury instead of Mending Refrain is excellent for charging up "Watch Yourself" but not really all that necessary cause you only need 4 adrenaline. I was thinking of putting "There's Nothing to Fear!" instead of "Shields Up!" and Mending Refrain instead of Spear of Lighting. Making stats Tact - 9 Motivation - 12 + 1 + 3 Leadership 9 + 1 making probably a better build giving 9 seconds of damage reduction. I should try this theory out. --NanoWarrior  (Talk • Contributions • Sandbox) 22:34, 21 July 2007 (CEST)

If this is supposed to be the 'PvE Paragon support build' that gets expanded and worked on, then the use of "There's Nothing to Fear!" in PC variants should be better emphasized. No PC paragon should step out the front door without TNtF. - 9tails 01:50, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

Question
Is Aria of Restoration an ok variant for any of these skills? -Dean Harper

well i guess you can replace Ballad of Restoration with it. they almost do the same thing but it is only good if you have a team of nothing but spell casters. J1j2j3 08:00, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

How about 0 spear mastery?
I've been using a similar build with my paragon for a long time, it was based on command instead of motivation but the essence was the same. However, I haven't bothered placing any points into spear mastery which allowed my tactics skills to become much more efficient. And honestly, I've never missed the damage I could've done. Wintergreen Spear FTW! --84.2.150.125 17:27, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh, just noticed it has been mentioned earlier. So... I agree with that too. --84.2.150.125 17:29, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Spear DPS owns. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:40, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Rapta... I believe the general consensus was that spear mastery is not required in this build. It is a support build, and diverting 8 attribute points for an extra ~20 damage every 6 seconds is not needed. This build isn't even meant to deal damage in the first place... I'd have to ask you to rethink your edit. -- Nova   --  (contribs) 17:11, 20 July 2007 (CEST)


 * The build doesn't lose much by having enough for a spear. Shield's Up can gain 1 second, and watch yourself gains 2 armor. That's the TOTAL of the bonus you would get. However, a spear adds damage. I think it is worth it. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 17:18, 20 July 2007 (CEST)


 * When used on a hero, it would be attacking anyways. Since you'll be carrying a spear anyways, I don't see a reason not to dedicate a few points into dealing some damage with it. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:59, 20 July 2007 (CEST)

I myself like to use it like this: Motivation: 11 + 4 Leadership: 8 + 2 Tactics: 11 Spear Mastery: 3 (+1) I believe this build can handle the health penalty from one superior and one major rune. After all, paras still have got 80 armor, with this build you'll have around 110 most of the time. Plus you can heal yourself. --81.183.144.47 15:17, 23 July 2007 (CEST)

"It can be used to reach the title of Indomitable Survivor..."
"It can be used to reach the title of Indomitable Survivor by playing through all the Nightfall missions using only heroes and henchmen."

Er, you'd have to be a Paragon yourself for this to be really true, right? Anyone starting a new character intending to go this route for Survivor titles won't get Morgahn until ~halfway through the game. And by the time you actually get him, it'd be easier to just go to Tyria and do the early missions there. I don't really know what I'm talking about, admittedly, so I'll stop there.--71.33.194.12 10:43, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

He means with you playing as a Paragon. I just created my first Paragon and have been using this build. I have gotten up to Sunspear Sanctuary and just reached my Survivor title yesterday. Recently, my Ranger has gone from Venta Cemetary through the end of the game, so it defniately IS possible.

Suggestion for Variant
Might I suggest a PvE variant for those who are using this build themselves (as opposed to having a Para hero): Spear of Fury instead of Spear of Lightning. I have rank 4 of the Kurz title, and this charges up "Watch Yourself" in one throw, essentially giving you *free* attack and buff skills. Only difference being that Spear of Fury recharges for 2 seconds longer, but that's hardly a problem. You can basically keep Watch Yourself up indefinitely, or charge it very quickly if you have lower levels of the title. --Franzwald 05:10, 10 September 2007 (CEST)
 * That's good if you are the paragon, but for heroes it sadly doesn't work. -66.167.214.11 01:09, 15 October 2007 (CEST)

Suggestion for Point Allocation
Leadership = 8+2

Motivation = 11+2+1

Tactics = 9

Spear = 8

Ideal spot for Aria of Zeal, and allows for more defense. -Mortico nayr 20:45, 5 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Spear 8 is as good as Spear 0 82.166.2.71 14:34, 19 October 2007 (CEST)

Aria of Zeal?
maybe you could put that in variants, but I personally don't think it deserves a spot in the build. ~ ʑʌɱʌɳəəɺɨɳɳ  (contribs) 18:41, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * While this doesn't help you too much, it is very valuable to the casters in your party. It's one of the more valuable skills of the build. There isn't really anything else deserving it's spot, and the build already has one optional slot. 82.166.2.71 14:36, 19 October 2007 (CEST)

"They're on Fire!"
Added a variant. Limu Tolkki 23:05, 15 November 2007 (CET)

Armor cap
Need something to replace Shields Up or Watch Yourself. Armor bonus's capped at 25, which makes having both pretty wasteful. --~ Kuro 21:55, 4 December 2007 (CET)
 * Needs energy from somewhere(SU! is great prot too), and its not that big of a deal... watcha gonna put instead?

runes
is there a good reason for having a major run in motivation?--Simpson man 03:56, 14 December 2007 (CET)


 * break point for Aria of Zeal :)--Relyk 21:16, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Break point is 14 not 15 as this has.(Mr Pink57 21:54, 21 February 2008 (EST))

Quick Question
I wanted to just say that Spear of Redemption might be a viable alternative to Spear of Lightning. I can see the armor penetration benefit but check up on it and see if you like it. 75.161.147.154Palin Oni

As soon as I saw Spear of Redemption I immediately replaced SoL with it, stops a lot of blind not a huge adren gain and does not seem to take away from WY spam. (Mr Pink57 23:07, 13 January 2008 (EST))

nerfed
still worth anything?-- aesthetic
 * Doesn't this get better? They buffed the amount it heals for by a large part. Energy still maintainable to a large extent since you have WY spam. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:30, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Five extra energy, 5s extra cooldown, +20 healed. --71.229 22:48, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Except your "Watch Yourself!" only last for 2 attacks, and your "Shields Up!" only gives armor against projectile attacks. Too bad my build was deleted a couple days before the update; it didn't need "WY!" or "SU!". XD -Mike 20:26, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * needs archive IMO.WS! and Shields Up! arnt good now and SoR got nerfed.--[[Image:Rebirth Infidel.jpg|21px]] aesthetic

I changed my build to For hero builds take Spear of Lightning and chose another useful chant to replace TNtF. The build works like a charm, no reason to delete anything (Paranoid 07:14, 9 March 2008 (EDT))
 * Energizing Chorus replaces WY: it nets you 12 energy for 4 adrenaline. It takes 1 sec to activate, but has no recharge time which makes it far better for energy management
 * "There's Nothing to Fear!" replaces "Shields Up!": obvious. SU is completely useless now, they could have just deleted the skill
 * Spear of Fury replaces Spear of Lightning: Let's you recharge Energizing Chorus even faster. Not really needed, but it may come in handy against energy drain in elite areas
 * But we need this build for Heroes, so we need to find replacements for your PvE skills. I think Finale of Restoration is an awesome skill, when used properly, and Heroes seem to use it well. So, Spear of Fury could be replaced with either Spear of Lightning or Burning Spear, and "There's Nothing to Fear!" with Finale of Restoration. Hopefully they revert Mending Refrain to what it was before the two nerfs, because I had it on my hero and it countered my own vampiric spear, too. lol -Mike 09:38, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Something along those lines for Heroes. Energizing Chrous is a spammable energy gain (Leadership bonuses+Signet of Synergy), and Serpent's Quickness reduces recharges. -- Guild of  Deals  09:43, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Imo leave this build. It works fine. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 12:31, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I think the Warrior Tactics line no longer has anything good to offer to a Paragon. "Watch Yourself" will last 2 hostile attacks, and you can only use it about every 10 seconds, if not longer (with a 1.5 attack speed, and the recharge.) "Shields Up!" gives you 8 seconds of 60 armor against projectiles (with a 30 second recharge) which isn't worth spending attribute points on either. If you still need a party-wide armor boost, "Stand Your Ground!" seems to be the only effective solution on a hero, but "SYG!" isn't that great either. -Mike 19:59, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

Drop Tactics line for command and bring Anthem of Envy and GFtE. It Might do better even Stand Your Ground with its 15e cost seems like a better option. those two shouts have been nerfed from my heroes and my warriors bar forever(excluding some NF areas Shields Up). Palin Oni 03:47, 25 March 2008 (EDT)Palin Oni

"Watch Yourself!": increased number of attacks before "Watch Yourself!" ends to 10.
is 10 hits enough or are we still better off with "Stand Your Ground!"? "Shields Up!" is still pretty bad, though. -Mike 14:33, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Still won't be run. Leave archived. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 15:43, 23 May 2008 (EDT)