User talk:Triss/D/E HA WS Spike Derv

May be useful after nerf of Onslaught: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Robert_Gee/Journal/2012-01-20. I'm not sure how this would handle energy management. If energy will be too hard to maintain,switch Pious Fury for Heart of Fury: not much adrenaline skills in this build so can be an energy management of some sort. Also, I'm not sure about IMS: I chose Enchanted Haste only because Fleeting Stability is in Earth Prayers and four attributes to spec to seems gay.Edit: Just realised that it removes condition too,so nice antiblind I guess. Please discuss. Triss 16:36, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Quad split is just 12+1+1, 8+1, 8+1, 7 :Gives you Cracked Armour, Condition transfer, and IMS, and a decent number of teardown enchants to abuse Wounding Strike's rediculous recharge. Use Enchanted Haste > Featherfoot to avoid aftercast if you really want. Radiant/Crippling/Mystic Sweep optional. PewPew   QQ   16:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Not rly what I really wanted. IMS is just ok,but good call on HoF so we will get another enchantment for WS,not wasting it on Pious Fury. But then,we come up to feeders. Rending Aura is nice,I must agree. But why grenth's fingers and featherfoot grace? Featherfoot Grace has no teardown effect,which is quite irritating for WS. I will leave Enchanted Haste here for blind removal. Now we come to Grenth's Fingers vs Zealous Renewal. Zealous Renewal is there just for energy management. And I think that with spamming of WS and enchantments I will leave it. Then we come up to if one skill,Rending Aura,is worth quad specing? Triss 17:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Grenth's transfers more than one condition, so take that instead, and by quad-speccing you lose hardly anything. (1e on Zealous renewal teardown and possibly a energy breakpoint?) Featherfoot may not have a teardown effect itself, but it still triggers the DW on WS when you do remove it (Its effect is also handy when snared/blind etc.), which makes it still useful. PewPew   QQ   17:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Good Blinders blinds rather on spikes than in general and for cripple you got "swift like a wind" shield so I guess this is where Enchanted Haste wins with Featherfoot Grace. Featherfoot Grace will have more effect on splits though. Gonna add a note. Also we have to test if this gonna have problems with energy or not. If not,then let's take Grenth's. Triss 17:31, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Pious Fury vs Heart of Fury
Opening new thread. HoF is adrenaline based so it would be nice in all-energy skill bar. However, Pious Fury allows you to remove cripple when holding a relic therefore being good option for HA. Also, it allows you to have both: condition removal AND cracked armor for spike.Energy may be a little hard I guess. Needs some testing,when I will do it I'll add note or remake build. Triss 18:04, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Variant-- Relyk 20:55, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You have Zealous. Energy should be just fine. HoF is fucking annoying with the cd and whatnot. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 22:43, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed to Pious Fury. Actually energy is managable with this,and dual enchantment removing may be useful on spikes to provide cracked armor and get rid of blindness. Also,cripple removing while running a relic is nice. Triss 00:00, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Update
Onslaught got nerfed,so I'm pushing it into testing. Remember that it is designed rather to caster spikes than stand-alone build :). Happy Testing :)Triss 14:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah all new Dervish builds must be tested after the nerf. ANd this build doesnt use any of the old skills [[Image:ChonsyRulez.jpg|19px]] Chonsy  Rulez   17:31, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Because it was designed to take Onslaught place after nerf :). Triss 18:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Featured
Ok,pushed it into Featured builds,I hope this can get build few votes :). Triss 19:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

EDA
isn't it, like, superior in about all ways? Just fix DW from Wearying, and... ups. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 19:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * not rly DANDY. EDA is ok in maybe some balanced build,cause it can lineback in some ways. WS is spike tool and the whole build is designed as spike frontliner. Triss 20:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * My point is that EDA is practically like a Conjure in terms of damage. You can use Aura of Thorns as a feeder ench, tear it with Wearying Strike, and get bleeding, deep wound and crippled without even using up your elite slot. The damage is still the same, but you're speccing into Earth, allowing for Fleeting Stability, while even freeing up your secondary profession. You're also less vulnerable to enchantment removal, and you have no cast-time on your conjure. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 21:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The damage on this build is so low compared to Onslaught/Pre-Nerfed derv builds. As it stands, it will probably get a crappy rating. I suggest giving this either a total rework or go with EDA. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 21:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm I will wait for other users to tell me sth about it,and make up decision after weekend. I've got a plan to utilize WS 3seclolrecharge in the team,but let's discuss just the build. Maybe EDA is truly better. For now,I move it to trial. Pity that you guys did not tell me it while it was in trial :). Moving to trial after weekend. Triss 22:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Its a tombs caster spike bar though, dont think you guys (this is what triss means) get it - its for a build where it is the solo frontline and therefore with wearying all a prot has to do is count your adrenaline to prot spikes. With WS, you can DW so often (not just on spikes, you literally use on recharge) that the prot doesn't actually know which of the guys you're going for is the real spike target (say you spike every 2 WS, so every 6 secs, once he works that out you skip one out wait 3 secs and spike again). No other bar but WS can do that. The damage doesn't really matter (well it does, obviously, but it does enough) as it is all made up for by your defenceball spike build. If you ran wearying EDA derv, you'd have to use 2 frontline or have a mesmer AND a pod Rawr 22:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The thing is, is WS still feasible with all the enchantments you have? With Pious Fury eating one to make it longer, one for Mystic after, AND with WS it seems like you would be just as obvious when you are about to spike as another derv. That's what I thought about this build. And no, I don't disagree with the testing tag. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I dunno. Tbh you want a quick followup that doesn't remove ench, if there isn't one (i dont play enough to know this all off by heart anymore :P) then maybe d/w for prot strike and even rush. IAS isn't necessary but it'd help. If anything D/A would be perfect, (A/D was the ultimate casterspike frontliner before the derv "change") as it has dash. As long as you can fuel WS every 3 secs then its sweet. Rawr 22:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That's for what mystic sweep is: 1 sec and +dmg attack that do not eat ench. Triss 22:20, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ~:I'll definitely take your word though. If you want to spam WS as fast as possible it seems like it would be enchantment intensive for this build. I'd have to test it just to make sure. :p Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * (ec)If you don't mind, I moved it into trial now so no one jumps the gun and votes. Best to keep it under sa:fety while it's not finished. :p Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Lol I just thought how it is possible to be it under trial tag o.O. Triss 22:08, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You really can use HoF as IAS,but Pious is just better since you can get Cracked armor on target AND blind off. Also this is just meant to utilise 3 seclolrecharge :). Glad thar Rawr get the idea :). Triss 22:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Rework,guys
Ok,so. This build is meant as spike frontliner,not general frontline. Maybe in general frontline EDA is better,but EDA spikes slower. Actually Rawr got the point.Maybe I will change it to WS Spike Derv and remove GvG tag to make it more clear?Triss 22:08, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Kay,now it's under better name. Also,better explains the idea. Removed GvG tag cause EDA will be better there. Triss 22:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * WS is more suited as a pressure skill because of it's recharge. There's no reason you couldn't use Wearying or a more damage-based DW for a spike build. Danny 05:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There is,Danny. Spike every 3 seconds pls instead of every 6 seconds.Also, please notice that wearying strike is nothing more than deep wound. So why it is "more damage-based"? Follow-up Twin Moon Sweep is nerfed. What you gonna do with it? Every single replacement of TMS can be suited here for mystic sweep and I think mystic sweep is the best. So we end up with SAME dmg and longer times without spike. Also,EDA. EDA is like conjure. Please take a notice that it makes you run with wearying strike. And again, 1 spike instead of 2. Eda can be stripped just like conjure. And you really won't need to worry cause you can cover it with few enchantments. ALso, there is a blind-removal just like in EDA. More,it is same skill that gives you speedboost. And that's why I disagree with your rating. Triss 14:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Wounding is a spike elite since the rework. Wearying is taken on pressure bars because it's charged pretty fast anyway and lets you use elites that pump more pressure (Grenth/Balthazar/Onslaught-prenerf). Even on this bar, you won't get to Wounding on 3r and doing so would mean a bar cramped with 6r flash enchants. As-is there's little else this bar does other than Rending &rarr; Wounding &rarr; Mystic on spikes. The fact that it doesn't require adrenaline just means the spike can't be delayed by slowing adrenaline gain through good defensive play. -- Toraen   confer  19:10, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup,and this is a spike build. You can abuse 3seclolrecharge when do not expecting blind(Invoke elems are off so gg) and taking Heart of Fury. However,it is still possible with pious fury. I really do not understand why this bar gets so bad ratings. I doubt someone ran this in team spike build. I think all of you guys are just theorycrafting.. Try it first in spikes,then please rate.. Triss 14:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, you've submitted this for HA, which means if it's not a commonly run bar in successful teams it's not getting vetted (I haven't obs'd recently so I don't know if this is). HA/GvG are basically restricted to top builds here. -- Toraen   confer  18:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see how it is a spike skill now. they left the damage bonus out of WS. and now the DW is uncovered. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 16:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Wearying Strike does not have bonus damage too. Spike skill,cause it's DW. Elite,cause DW covered and lolrecharge independent of adrenaline. There is actually no better spike combo than WS + Mystic sweep for dervs. Triss 19:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

tl;dr you guys it is basically the best casterspike melee there is, regardless of whether its meta or not (we simply dont meta tag it) it fills that position and if single frontline spikes become popular due to other buffs then this will be the one in place. Prty much. Also, Danny, I don't think you understand the point of WS Rawr 19:17, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Whatevs
K guys,moving to userspace. Ty all for discussion,ty for ratings,ty Rawr for support :). Ty for assist,Evan. Triss 19:39, 1 February 2012 (UTC)