Build talk:Rt/Mo 330hp Vengeful Spirit Bonder/Archive 1

It works.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ 〚₮/ḉ〛 03:43, 15 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Been using this for a while, since it was posted of guru, and got loads of golds from it, definitely works. Shooting Arrows 21:58, 15 July 2007 (CEST)

This build > basically all other farming builds. My compliments to the build's creator. -Punjab 03:25, 16 July 2007 (CEST)

That would be me :) Thankx.  I enjoy this build alot compared to the 105hp Rt/Mo builds I had made a few months back.  The idea just popped up in my head out of no wheres while I was farming with them 105hp Rt/Mo builds.

Best to go to the GuildwarsGuru.com link to see the full build thread...has way more information on descriptions and usages of the build. I also update it all the time with new info, or places to farm. (ReZDoGG 04:06, 16 July 2007 (CEST))

I just noticed the guru link I entered takes you to page 5 of the build on Guru...was a mistake. I just updated it so it goes right to the build on page 1. (ReZDoGG 04:13, 16 July 2007 (CEST))

The build is extremely effective. Used it to farm Sins in the Halcyon Job, Undead outside bergen springs, and the UW...all in hard mode. UW is a pain primarily only when they get their interrupts in on Spirit Bond or Vwk...the combination of spirit bond and Vwk makes farming there effortless though (as long as they don't interrupt you at critical points).--Thor79••Talk 06:47, 17 July 2007 (CEST)

UW is a bit difficult, but possible. It will take some learning to get used to dealing with interruptions, like learning how to avoid most of them. With Blade Aatxes, renewing Protective Spirit when its duration is about half way through, will give you two chances to renew it. If the first cast gets interrupted, you will have enough to time for Protective Spirit to recharge and be ready to try again before the current PS enchant ends. Spirit Bond is best to try to get one off before VwK ends, incase that one gets interrupted, it will be recharged to cast again when VwK does run out. And trying to cast spells just as they are about to swing at ya, can help to avoid interruptions. Since they already decided to swing, and not interrupt... so if you cast it at the right time, you could get most of your spells off. Also, Mending Touch can be good for removing Dazed from Grasp if you can get it off in time. Like casting it between hits. Mainly the harder part of the run is grasp... (ReZDoGG 16:08, 18 July 2007 (CEST))


 * All farms are deadly... easy. Spiders outside Sunspear Great Hall, plant Ele boss not-so-far-away (just need to time VwK), Fahranur First City, Wajjun Bazaar and farming Jade Bro. Knights, and I guess that hundred more places, with degen, deep wounds... Only Daze is a true counter, and, of course, massive enchantment removal (can use Spirit Bond as a cover ench for Prot Spirit), but hey - Any bonder, Spirit or not, is countered by ench removal. Same goes for 55 monks and all UW/FoW/DoA teams. Thanks to this build, I started playing with rit again and I want to *gasp* do mission in Nightfall... &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 22:17, 19 July 2007 (CEST)

Improvement?
even if it's a so small improvement, i really think that the other sup rune must be spawning power. with the rune and the 5 attribute points left after the basic speccing, you can have 5 sp. 10% longer weapons, useful when you bring resilient weapon --Jim Eno 14:37, 27 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Yeah I know what you mean, I have changed the attribute and skill template. I also changed the template code so it will put those extra points into spawning.  Even though you won't benefit much using spawning, it will give some use to those left over points.  Thanks for the suggestions. (ReZDoGG 18:54, 27 July 2007 (CEST))
 * Em, why Aegis for a solo farm? - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   19:16, 27 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Was just a alternative skill choice that can be used if you want. I personaly don't use it.  Blocking half of the hits taken can help to keep Spirit Bond last alittle longer when taking on bigger groups of enemies.  And I tried to list all the possible alternative spells and skills that can be used. Especially if someone don't have access to certain skills. (ReZDoGG 19:27, 27 July 2007 (CEST))
 * The second sup attribute is totally irrelevant - are you really going to benefit from a 10% longer vengeful weapon? No, it's going to trigger on the first hit and end. --66.245.217.162 14:14, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * It is also used to get your HP to the 330 level. Better to have it in SP where it will have a minimal effect than in an unused attribute. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   19:10, 30 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Yeah it is better to have a small benefit than non at all. But it made the left over attributes somewhat useful in spawning.   Like If you were to use resilient weapon, wielder's remedy, or Weapon of warding, or something like that it might help alittle.   But will only give you like 1 or 2 seconds longer durations.  But it helps out something anyways.  (ReZDoGG 02:05, 31 July 2007 (CEST))

Shouldn't delete your monks people! =)
I don't think anyone should be deleting their monks cause of this build... Monks do have their purposes for some areas or enemies that this build can't farm. Mainly the areas with major interruptions and knockdowns.

I can say I definately don't touch my monk anymore though. But I'm sure when EoTN comes out there will be places only the Monk will beable to farm. So, places you cannot farm with my build, the Monks might beable to.

I have all 10 chars, so I'm always good to go for the next new builds or farms. Spending 20 bux is worth the 2 extra character slots if you want all 10 chars. (ReZDoGG 21:32, 28 July 2007 (CEST))
 * nah, having more slots = suckage imho. paragons are underused in pve, mesmers too. sins are boring as hell (used only for chestrunning or farming generally, that can be done by speccing /A with an El or W). i prefer to keep pvp slots open --Jim Eno 19:27, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * PvE Paras win now that we have Sunspear/Alliance skills. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   19:29, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Sins are definately not boring, they are good money makers. Especially for chest running, and boss farming.   They can have alot of uses with the skills they have... And A/Me can use Echo to keep Shadowform on for around 60+ seconds. (ReZDoGG 02:06, 31 July 2007 (CEST))

Ummm same guy rating again with same results?
This guy that rates my build very low, seems he don't know a whole lot about farming. He is being really unfair to the build. I'm guessing its the same guys that was crapping on my build on Guru. He doesn't quit. (ReZDoGG 22:07, 1 August 2007 (CEST))
 * Meh, he gave a reason. Your build is still in the 'Great' category, I'd take it easy. I disagree with his reasoning (how many builds can solo-farm mass mobs after all the AI nerfs/updates?). You provided a video for proof, maybe he can elaborate on his rating here? - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   22:11, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Sorry, I don't see how someone can crap on one of the best builds for HM farming. If mass mob farming was so good, everyone would be doing it.  Since the nerfs, its not worth it.  I'm pretty sure he won't be changing his ratings, its the same guy from guru.  He had tried to argue about the same topic "can't farm mass mobs".  For one thing, barely any build can farm massive mobs of enemies.  Another, I never claimed this was to farm Mass Mobs of enemies...(ReZDoGG 22:23, 1 August 2007 (CEST))


 * Making new account to boost up score is NOT allowed, don't do it. 2 of the voters have no contribs, thats a sign of sockpuppetry. &mdash; RAWR! [[Image:Skasig.jpg|19px]] Skakid9090 22:26, 1 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Yeah, I had no intentions of doing so. Whats up with this sockpuppetry? and whats up with this review thing.  its scaring me. lol (ReZDoGG 22:29, 1 August 2007 (CEST))
 * If anyone wants to 'fess up now, I'll settle this, no questions asked, and the wiki can move on to other things. Otherwise, anyone found to be involved in sockpuppetry (to influence the build's rating positively or negatively) will face administrative action. Save me the trouble. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   00:43, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I believe the vote should be struck. But that's just me, heh, yeah, I'm finally back after some hard work. Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)·(contributions) 00:45, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Anyone against, me removing all of the vote by the users who have less than 1 contrib? Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 00:53, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * If I were an admin I would do the same. But I'm not, so that sucks for me. Don't bother waiting for objections, you'll get none. Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)·(contributions) 00:54, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I don't think any build in the tested category deserves anything below a 2 rating. And that goes for all builds. If a build deserves a 2 or less, it wouldn't be worth posting.   It would pretty much mean it was completely useless.  I wouldn't delete votes for people with no contributions, as some signed up just to make votes and comments.  Deleting votes that are less than a 2 rating would be alright to do i think.  I don't think anyone deserves less than a 2 overall rating, mainly because they put the effort in trying to get a build to work, and then the time to post it.(ReZDoGG 01:00, 2 August 2007 (CEST))
 * But then that's called bias. It's best to be unbiased. I have seen some builds that deserve a 0 rating, seriously. They MORE than fail. Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)·(contributions) 01:07, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * You should PUG more often... - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   01:00, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh god, try to PUG in DoA... x/ <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 01:04, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I understand there might be some that might deserve a really low rating, but mainly only the ones that are in testing or trial.  Anything in the good or great categories definately does not deserve it. We need a chat room. lol(ReZDoGG 01:12, 2 August 2007 (CEST))
 * IRC, MSN, XFire... All good stuff. And I agree there, builds that have been put through their paces and have been thoroughly tested and are in the good or great category do NOT deserve such a low score, unless everyone has missed one very major flaw in the build. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 01:13, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, we mostly use MSN Messenger. You can find all the admin's addresses here. You'll have to ask for other users' personally. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   01:36, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Is that a "Ok" or a "No kay'"? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:37, 2 August 2007 (CEST)

I'd say just delete the votes that are below a 2 overall rating. That would be fair enough for all "Great" tested builds. I mean 2 lame voters almost knocked my build out of the "Great" category. When everyone else is giving 5's??? Fair or Unfair? (ReZDoGG 19:36, 2 August 2007 (CEST))
 * You shouldn't have such a close association with the build. Once you post it on the wiki, it is now released as wiki property, free for anyone to edit, critique etc. You are taking the vetting process too personally. I've already posted a message for Lethal Haircut, let us admins take care of the sockpuppetry charges. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   19:43, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Well, I guess I'm just understanding how PvX works. I am over it. (ReZDoGG 19:54, 2 August 2007 (CEST))

"It is a little too slow for me but with some work and a few tweaks could prove to be effective"?
How is it slow? You must not be using the build right... This build can kill melee enemies in less than 10 seconds. Thats almost just as fast as a Savannah Heat Ele, since casting Meteor Shower takes 5 seconds, along with the other spells. Which the E/Mo Savannah Heat is definately fast as killing a group of enemies, but only works on groups that are tightly packed together. So this actually can be faster. There are no more possible tweaks to be added, its as good as its going to get. Maybe when EoTN comes out it might have a few new Alternative skills. And This build is faster, and more effective than any 55 monk or necro. Overall, its just way better. Period. I just ain't seeing how people are thinking this build ain't effective or worth using? What am I missing? I've used every farming build worth using out there, and I can easily say this build tops any of them... and with just 1 skill set! If you saying this build ain't effective, your saying all other builds aren't as well... including 55/105 Monks and Necros. Thats all I got to say. Peace Out! (ReZDoGG 19:33, 2 August 2007 (CEST))


 * Lethal's a sockpuppet. <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 19:36, 2 August 2007 (CEST)
 * But why? Why do they do it? I don't understand. They go out of their way to go on builds and rate it low? for what reason? No lives? Oh well, I'm over it all. (ReZDoGG 19:38, 2 August 2007 (CEST))

Well, I can only speak for myself ofcourse, but my reason I voted it lower than others is simply because it doesn't meet my farming requirements, which are apperantly higher than the ones from other players. All im doing is gathering all the enemies in a wide area, get em in 1 point, and than ss/nuke/whatever them to death. Because this build can only take 1 group at a time, it is slower in the end. Because this build doesn't work for me, I vote it low. If you like it or not, nothing you can do about it everyone has the right to rate at wiki.User:Alleskapot
 * It seems your looking in the wrong place if you do Mass Mob only. I mean If you like to only farm acouple areas with your build...fine. This build can farm just about anywheres. But, Why would you even rate something that you wouldn't use in the first place? That doesn't make sense.  It is very capable of taking on more than one group.  If you want to take on even bigger mobs, just take SoA.   I just see no point in rating builds that you don't try or even think about using. stick to your one build and rate that.  (ReZDoGG 23:44, 2 August 2007 (CEST))
 * I'd never play a Hands Wammo, yet I'd be quick to shoot one down. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   00:01, 3 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, I'd understand that. Warriors are limited, and definately a bit slow killing.  But I would even bother rating it. (ReZDoGG 01:22, 3 August 2007 (CEST))

No, SoA and bigger mobs wouldn't solve the problem of taking big groups. why? because enemies run (in HM). With this build, enemies need to attack you in order for you to deal damage. Nothing you can change about it. If you take, for example, ss, only 1 enemy in a group has to attack you in order to deal damage to the whole group. So, if you make use of the environment you can make sure the whole groups stays on you, while 3 are attacking with some SS between them. And yes, there are numerous places where this can be done (just use your brain). And I rate this build, because otherwise it's biased (like said before). If no1 would rate builds he doesn't like and only rates the builds he likes, all builds would become 'great' eventually...And I think this build is overrated and the community has the right to know that. Oh, and if you think warriors are slow in killing you probably play them wrong, but that's another discussion. .User:Alleskapot
 * Well SoA being used with alot of Range and few Melee would definately help out. Anymore than 6 melee attackers would be problems if they don't die quick enough from running and healing. So, I understand taking on big groups of all melee attacking enemies wouldn't do much with this build, and probably not even kill them.  But who farms stuff like that these days anyways? that crap is in the past.  Trolls and Minos are not worth farming. And I don't use SoA anyways, as its pretty quick and simple to kill off alot enemies with the original skill set.  And even if you take on a small groups while farming, the small amount of time it takes to kill them all, saves alot of time farming.  SS is definately slower than this build.   You need to atleast cast two SS on the enemies and need them to be close together... that can be kind of slow. You are limited to what enemies you can farm with SS.  Not to mention you might as well not bother take any mixed groups that spread out.  so with the enemies not sitting close together, SS wouldn't do much at all.  The build is actually not rated as high as it should i think. lol.  But thats only because a few people don't know anything about farming rated it really low.   Warriors do work, and I have farmed with them plenty of times before... But I simply don't use them anymore.  I don't wanna start this arguing up again like I did on Guru.  It goes no wheres when you can't get any kind of point across, and just making yourself look stupid. Give it up. Overall this build owns for farming HM.  And Everyone besides you loves the build, what does that tell you? There ain't nothing you can say or do to change that. And I'd like to see your build/s clear out 244+ enemies in one area in about an hour and half... Thats the type of farming that is bringing in money.  peace out!(ReZDoGG 00:04, 4 August 2007 (CEST))

Wow, are you saying SS is limited and slow? If you use your head it's the most powerfull skill out there. When you can do this, : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaM_JxP9r9U, or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bXwgHQ3j_Y ,or solo a great part of FoW with VwK I will recognize this build as great. No build of only 8 skills is the best for every area out there..User:Alleskapot
 * I said overall. Not best for every area or type of farming.  This build can farm many many areas, and do it very quickly.   Most builds are only meant for a small number of farms.  This one exceeds that number as a 55 monk would.   But it is capable of doing the job faster. I never bothered to try FoW with it, as I don't farm there much.  If SS is capable of farming FoW without dying, Im sure this would kill something there.(ReZDoGG 23:49, 4 August 2007 (CEST))

Go ahead, do your best, but it won't be enough to kill something. Warriors and monks would just outheal you, and you die against medium/ big groups because spirit bond can't keep up. Next time don't claim anything which ain't true (And somehow I think that sentence is said before, but apperantly you didn't learn anything) User:Alleskapot
 * PvX:NPA. Don't break it again. Also, since it has been released here, it can be edited and critiqued by others. AKA, if someone says something bad about it, fine. Leave it be.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ 〚₮/ḉ〛 01:27, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

And this build can kill enemies with a strong healer in the group. Such as insects with the Grubs... it takes awhile, but eventually the grub can't handle the quick damage being done and eventually will run low on energy. So you can kill all the insects in the group besides the grub... i done this many times. Grubs are definately some of the strongest quick healers, and this build can still out damage it... (ReZDoGG 05:57, 14 August 2007 (CEST))

Having anything higher than 330hp wouldn't be good at all.
The build is meant to have 330hp so VwK can steal 37 life from the 33 damage you take. So you gain 4hp every hit. If you had 400-500hp you would have to use Spirit Bond constantly, leading to waaay more energy usage and greater chance of dying. When u use VwK with 330hp, you don't have to use Spirit Bond. Unless the casters are still inflicting damage from spells that don't trigger VwK. And the +10 Retribution don't sound like much, but it adds up quite of a bit more damage over time. 10 hits = 370 (life steal) + 100 (Retribution) = 470 damage. 10 enemies = 4,700 damage in 10 hits each. And that ain't counting the Spamming of Vengeful Weapon and RoD. That would be almost 5,000 damage total in 10 hits from each foe, and in about 10 seconds of one VwK usage. But before you reach that type of damage, most of them are dead. The math is simple. And doing that type of damage to all foes in one use of VwK is pretty damn good. SoJ and Spiteful Spirit can't compete with that. (ReZDoGG 23:59, 2 August 2007 (CEST))


 * If the math is simple, why are you still doing it wrong than? If you would calculate the damage each hit, SoJ will still win...not even taking other smiting skills in calculation (after all you can also use retribution even more efficient on a smiting monk). You are supposed to calculate the damage per second, not per hit...And higher health would be better because retribution would deal more damage. VwK is your main damage source, and if you have spirit bond it doesn't need to be the source that keeps you alive. If you keep spirit bond up, which can easily be done if you pay attention and take small groups (which is only possible anyway), that should be your healer. If you are running out of energy while doing that, you should probably be doing something wrong. You have balthazar's and essence bond which should be more than enough. Than again, this way would probably not for lazy people....User:Alleskapot


 * SoJ knocks things down. It's a 2 second knockdown+ a .75 second attack (because Aataxes use swords and have a natural IAS in HM). VwK however activates every .75 seconds. VwK is more powerful in Hard Mode. Period.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ 〚₮/ḉ〛 17:56, 3 August 2007 (CEST)


 * SoJ is around 25 seconds long with 20% enchants, and it usually takes two useages of SoJ to kill off a group. So thats around 30-50 seconds per group, besides Undead... Versus 10 seconds?  SoJ knockind down foes also leads to less energy gain from enemies.  And Spirit Bond is not that hard to use.  I did take on 15 enemies at one time and managed to stay alive and kill them all off.  I just had to spam it everytime it was charged.  And who said anything about running out of energy?  And I went by every hit, because thats the damage they take. heh.  And they hit once every second, so 10 hits is around 10 seconds.   And yet again, your wasting you breath trying to prove something that you can't.  This build owns for farming HM.   Live with it. (ReZDoGG 23:47, 3 August 2007 (CEST))

Haha. I only used SoJ as an example of how poor your 'easy' math was, because when you calculate damage each hit you will loose. Of course not with damage per second. And if you ever run into energy problems with balthazar's and even essence bond, you are really doing something wrong. But anyway, you seem not to confirm that having higher HP is more effective, which is..User:Alleskapot
 * I used damage per hit with it because you get hit alot faster than SoJ. I know SoJ does 53 dmg a hit ,and this one is 47.  But of course no matter what SoJ loses over time, and I did explain that clearly.  sorry it was too hard for you to understand.  And who is running into energy problems? why u keep bring that up?  I say SoJ don't give you much energy benefit cause it knocks down.... (ReZDoGG 23:36, 4 August 2007 (CEST))
 * Higher HP is worse here. The idea is that VwK means you don't have to spam Spirit Bond for a period of time. Even if it is easier, it would be far more irritating for a relatively small tradeoff in DPS. This build is basically perfect as it stands now and raising/lowering HP would do nothing to improve it, as would turning it into a pure spirit bonder. Finally, I've made myself perfectly clear and will not bother wasting my time to reply to you again.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ 〚₮/ḉ〛 13:34, 4 August 2007 (CEST)

Concerning the higher health issue, I simply meant to bring your health a little higher. To 370 (by using a major vigor rune). That way you don't take dmg, but you're still dealing more damage than with 330 health. This is just constructive criticism, not flaming.Anarion Silverhand 13:47, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh, well bringing your health up alittle by using a staff with hp bonus is alright. Alot of people are using Alem's Remedy which has extra 30hp.  It does help Retribution put out 11 damage instead of 10. But it only does that extra damage when VwK is not in use.   It would be better to get that extra health from a weapon instead of a rune, since u don't get any weapon/staff benefits when holding items.   When you use VwK, your health will drop to 330hp. And you will still get that extra +4hp gain while using VwK. (ReZDoGG 23:29, 4 August 2007 (CEST))

For People that are having Problems/Difficulties with the Build
I notice alot of people are talking about energy problems, not being effective, or having some kind of complaint. It's not an easy build to get a hang of in the first place, mainly just because of the glitche/bug in Spirit Bond. It's best to read my Guru thread if your having problems with energy, farming slow, or dying alot. Also, this build is mainly meant for Hard Mode. In NM the enemies attack slower, leading less energy usage and slower killing. Make sure you got the right equipment and that you are farming in HARD MODE. I should put a note stating that the build is a bit difficult, and should mainly be used by experienced farmers.

If you are still having difficulties, you can contact me in game, and I will help you out. I would like to know what it is that is causing you to rate it so low, or whats causing the complaints. My IGN is "ReZ Dogg" or "Nativ Spirit Lord". '''Please contact me before you rate the build. Pretty sure I can help fix your problems.''' (ReZDoGG 00:01, 5 August 2007 (CEST))

I would also like to add that this build works great. I have tryed it in the underworld and it's dealing damage fast to the aaxtes. The only problem is just the spirit bond glitch you have to be careful for as you only have 330 hp. But else this build is really amazing. Takzu 00:02, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

How cool - 3 people that can't use this build or dont understand it (SLOW? this is like 2 times faster than normal 55 monk, 3 times in Hard Mode!) gave it 1.5 or lower and it's not in Great section. You wanna a proof that this works? Before ReZDoGG posted this build, I had 7k in my storage. After a week (excluding a week and a day of being offline) I have 55k... And I didn't even farm in UW. This build is just faster, better and safier than any other builds I know. Maybe except for dual FoW/UW smite, but those are team builds. &mdash; Abedeus   14:32, 6 August 2007 (CEST)


 * This actually works great as a tank for Dualing UW with a Monk. VwK, Retribution, Veng. Weapon, RoD, and SoJ will do hell of  alot of damage to enemies.   It's better than Dual Monks, and way faster... Possibly the best combo out of any dual for uw. (ReZDoGG 05:50, 10 August 2007 (CEST))

Sockpuppetry
Since none of the users involved have responded on this talk page or on my own user talk, I will be removing all suspected sockpuppet when I get home from work this evening (about 12 hours from now). To preserve you vote, you will need to have >1 contribution to the wiki. :-) This has been a public service announcement by: -  <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman    20:26, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Done. Removing admin review tag. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   07:40, 7 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Why does Alleksapot rating deserve to stay? when one other persons did not? I don't believe this build deserves to get a flat 0 for rating.  Would be nice to remove it :) (ReZDoGG 05:17, 12 August 2007 (CEST))


 * Not a sockpuppet. For the love of god Rez, stop bitching. Who cares? One bad rating? Give it a rest.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ 〚₮/ḉ〛 05:59, 12 August 2007 (CEST)


 * well, i seen someone gave their opinion about the build and having difficulties... they gave it a low rating, and admin removed his rating because they thought it was too low.  so why not this guys rating?  all im saying.  and if someone rated your farming builds at 0.. im sure you guys would remove it without reason. (ReZDoGG 08:48, 12 August 2007 (CEST))
 * He is entitled to his opinion; and what's more, he has backed up his opinion on this discussion page. No reason to strike his vote. I do not believe I have ever had to remove a vote from one of my own builds either. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   09:43, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * But when does an opinion count if the user hasn't actually tried the build?? I know for a fact the guy don't have a ritualist, and he only tried the build on a monk. I tried telling him to make a ritualist and try it, and see the big difference.  But he said the if a monk won't work, a rit won't be any difference.  When in fact there is a big difference... a monk wouldn't be half as good as a Ritualist.  And I told him the differences and why it only works with a Ritualist... but he wasn't convinced enough to try it on a Ritualist.  So his opinion is based on a Monk/Rt... is that fair? (ReZDoGG 10:31, 12 August 2007 (CEST))
 * Not really, but that's a flaw of voting. When people have a right to vote, they can cast their vote based on whatever bizarre reasoning they have made in their own heads. As for actually trying a build, that matters never. I don't have to test every build to tell you they work. Many of us here can spot a bad build before we ever see it in action (bad attributes, skills, equipment etc). - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   19:47, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I think that the Rating was introduced to make sure people won't do "I don't like build, because it has bad skill/slow/something else I didn't test, but I don't like it anyway". I mean, we have in the Real Vetting policy rule to strike a vote, when "They are entirely based on a false premise." and I don't think that Alleskapot ever tested this build as it should be. I mean, can I give a 0-0-0 to, let's say, Mo/W Stanced LoD Infuser, because I used it on W/Mo. Why not? It didn't work on warrior primary, so it won't on monk... I mean, they have less AR! And Shield Bash/Balanced lasts shorter without runes :/ [/ironic]. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 01:15, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

Plz rezzdogg you can't stop with it do you. And if you want to see my ritualist ingame be my guest. I've even said on Guru that I did try it with my ritualist. You shouldn't have this close connection to a build.User:Alleskapot
 * Add me to ur friends list (ReZDoGG 15:55, 13 August 2007 (CEST))

Absorption Alternative
For those of you who suck with Spirit bond like I do... [build name="105hp Vengeful Shielding Handserwhatever" prof=ritua/monk restor=12+1+3 protec=12 spawni=3+3][vengeful was khanhei][vengeful weapon][protective spirit][shielding hands][Shield of Absorption][optional][essence bond][balthazar's spirit][/build] Use Shielding Hands or Shield of Absorption when Vengeful Was Khanhei is recharging. Degen will rape you.


 * Build is alot safer but slower. and for degen you can use Resilient Weapon while VwK is down. Just don't cancel it out with Vengeful Weapon when its still needed.  SoA and SH is meant to reduce all damage when VwK is not in use.  so you don't need them when using VwK.(ReZDoGG 05:49, 14 August 2007 (CEST))