User talk:Garrik Fel/Portaswamp

=What the first edit is=

This is a summary to the discussion page to "Portable Swamp" an amazingly fun/difficult/innovative build I had created.

=Garrik's Attempt to Recreate the important parts of the discussion Page=

Note
This is from before the build wipe from the guildwiki, not from before the build got trashed. Garrik Fel 18:56, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

Effects of the Nature Rituals

 * No Rez (Except by Lively was Naomei, or Restoration) (to prevent Rez)
 * Enchantments take twice as long to cast, twice as much energy to maintain, and end 46% faster (to negate usefulness of monks)
 * Skills cost +30% energy and recharge twice as fast (to help Famine, and skill recharge)
 * Chants cost +4 energy (to help Famine)
 * Sigs cost 10 energy (to help Famine)
 * Every attack and skill costs +1 energy (An attack skill would cost +2 energy) (to help Famine)
 * Every time someone reaches 0 energy, they take 32 damage (The main source of damage of the build)
 * Poison causes -6 degen instead of -4 degen (small pressure, almost as good as causing burning to everyone, except this lasts longer)
 * All physical damage is fire damage (for rangers +30 Armor against elemental damage, and energy management for the Shackling Ranger)

The spirits stack. So if someone used an attack that was a Sig, it would cost a total of about 15-16 energy.

Basics of this build

 * Rangers place the spirits early on, even before the timer starts, camp near the base.
 * Famine is the main source of damage, the traps and degen are to waste the enemies' energy to heal themselves, and to help prevent melee from ganking everything.  Hence Barbed Trap and Tripwire.
 * The build is deceiving, the only way to see if it is good is to try it yourself. I'll be honest, I never thought this would have worked before I tried it, in fact, I purposely made the original concept for the build to "Screw them All" which meant my own incompetent team.
 * The Necro is the healer, hence the defensive spirits. Also, spirit light weapon acts as a fake regen, giving +12 regen.  Since it's fake regen, it isn't capped at +10.  Lively was Naomei can rez through FS
 * Quickening Zypher causes recharge time to be cut in half. This means while QZ is up, a ranger being attacked will only have 4 seconds when he isn't blocking 75% of attacks.  Also the 60 sec recharge skills are now only 30 secs, making them much more useful and replaceable should they get killed off.
 * The Necro, having Soul Reaping, will have a steady stream of energy thanks to the spirits

History of the build
One day in the Team Arenas, I was sick of the PUGs that I was in, due to their incompetence. I then made a build to "Screw them All." After winning a few matches with it, I decided to turn it into a build team that would be more functional, and hurt itself less. Since then, I have received a number of useful suggestions, especially in regard to the Healer. I say the build is deceiving because it is. It LOOKS useless, there's no denying that. It does most of it's damage through subtle means (i.e. famine and energy denial), and not raw damage (i.e. attacking).

= HB =

Could this work for HB? I'm up for trying new build, so as soon as I cap the elites, I'm going to try it. I was just wondering if anyone else has tried it. Bluemilkman 17:17, 14 May 2007 (CEST)
 * It won't work for HB. As soon as someone realizes that this is mostly a slow moving build, they'll just turn it into a running game, and this team would never be able to keep up.  Garrik Fel 22:11, 14 May 2007 (CEST)


 * I guess that would kind of suck. Good point. I guess I won't try it then. Thanks. Bluemilkman 22:36, 14 May 2007 (CEST)
 * And I doubt the hero AI would understand how to use this build... Someone should try it, I don't got the skills for it... and don't nature rits have really big range? [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk···contributions) 13:50, 23 May 2007 (CEST)

=DoTAoE=

I would argue that this isn't a counter per se. Yes, spirits can't move, I just sort of assumed that people wouldn't place them on top of each other. Losing a spirit every now and then isn't bad (it's even good if soul reaping works the way I think it does). You just will have to replace the spirit, a minor annoyance perhaps, but nothing as drastic as labeling that as a counter. I put in the "team usage" not to place spirits on top of each other. If I'm misreading this, please tell me. Garrik Fel 02:38, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

=UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH!=

4.45! 4.45!  Granted I'm extremely pleased it's not 0 but... 4.45! (I'm talking about the current build Rating) That's not within 3.5-4.4... nor is it within 4.5-5.0! Please, someone else vote to put it in a category. I don't care if the vote goes down so within the "good" range, I just find it extremely irksome that technically this isn't part of any category. So please! Go out and vote! One vote (in this case at least) makes a difference! Garrik Fel 21:19, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

I'll edit it when I get... more... time to test it. frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 21:22, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

= Here's the deal =

I'm tired of explaining this build. I'm tired of people who don't understand that this is a difficult build to use, and requires practice (though I will admit that the 2 monk thing does sort of negate this build, too much healing), I'm tired of people voting on it based on the fact there are no damage skills, so this is what I'm going to do. I'm not going to defend the build anymore, when it get's voted into the trash category I'm just going to let it. Though, I will save a copy (complete with the more important parts of the discussion page) to here Here. So if you ever want to use it, check for it there. Garrik Fel 18:56, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

= In case you were curious =

In case you were curious, here is a complete list of the votes (with their reasons) before the build got trashed. The numbers are in the following order: Overall, Effectiveness, Universality, and Innovation.

First

 * 3.9, 4, 3, 4


 * it does well with causing pressure, but the famine/e-denial isn't that new. the use of the natural spirits, however, is creative, especially with the very underused greater conflagration. i would still suggest the use of natural stride on ranger #1. it does what it job is, but requires some patience. the trap ranger can sometimes encounter energy problems. well, thats my word on it!

Second

 * 4.9, 5, 4, 5


 * very creative and fun to play with.

Third

 * 4.2, 4, 4, 5


 * Effective, Innovative and fun to play.

Update

 * 5.0, 5, 5, 5


 * Effective, Innovative and fun to play. Gsus ppl whovote low seem not to have tested it, it works really great! Just go and test it. I'm changing my vote to protect it from ppl that r voting low with no valid reason.

Fourth

 * 4.2, 4, 4, 5


 * Looks fun but AoE would really hurt this build...

Fifth

 * 5.0, 5, 5, 5


 * VERY interesting, VERY fun. AoE doesn't kill an experienced team with good spatial awareness and spirit placement. I like it!


 * I tried this again and it killed every team in a row for 47 rounds, but then we came across the nastiest spike team ever.

Sixth

 * 1.6, 1, 1, 5


 * Did three games... first one had a Melandru's monk, so that failed... then we fought another team... we got rolled... how did this get favored? maybe we were unlucky. We did win one, against an AFK necro XD. Fails against 2 monk teams, which is the meta now, so...

Seventh

 * 3.2 3, 3, 4


 * Little you can do if they realise they're losing to the pressure and just run away.

Eighth

 * 2.2, 2, 2, 3


 * Reminds me of R-spike without the Spikers :/.

Ninth

 * 1.6, 1, 1, 5


 * rolled by pressure, no damage, countered too easily, lwo healing, no cond removal, randomness, sucks


 * EDIT: extremely bad in new meta (I personally agree if the capping maps stick around for good)

Tenth

 * 1.6, 1, 1, 5


 * Tried it. Had DPS of standard Wammo. Very innovative though :|

Eleventh

 * 1.6, 1, 2, 4


 * fails, no damage, spirits get killed easily.

Twelfth

 * 4.0, 4, 3, 5


 * i love this. it's very creative, and surprisingly effective. I never would have guessed that this could actually kill anything. Brilliant!

Thirteenth

 * 1.0, 1, 1, 1


 * This suxxxxxx.. Wtb damage.

Fourteenth

 * 2.3, 2, 1, 5


 * Needs moar damage.

Fifteenth

 * 4.3, 4, 5, 5


 * Ultimate awesome. Irritating as a swarm of gnats going into your eye sockets and eating your flesh. And it works.

Sixteenth

 * 1, 1, 1, 1


 * Little to no damage. And spirits are getting killed fast.

Seventeenth

 * 1.3, 1, 0, 4


 * need moar damage.

Eighteenth

 * 4.0, 4, 3, 5


 * There are clearly more effective builds out there, but none beat this for innovation and the fun-factor. It definitely requires patience (IWAY Zaishen take forever), and stands no chance in the newly introduced Capping maps, but it's effective enough to keep things interesting.

Those who complain of not enough damage clearly had too little patience (or never tried it).

Nineteenth

 * 4.2, 4, 4, 5


 * Very inventive and effective.

Twentieth

 * 3.2, 3, 2, 5


 * Takes a long time, but it does kill. Annoying as hell in the meantime.

= Please only edit below =

If anyone wants to ask me about the build, or leave a comment or whatever, please post it here or below, if you post above this point I'll just move it to below this point. Well, have fun with Portaswamp! Garrik Fel 18:56, 17 August 2007 (CEST)


 * is this build still working with sr nerf and all?83.249.123.249 15:33, 6 January 2009 (EST)
 * It doesn't work anymore. The rit no longer has the energy needed to keep his side of the team alive without the energy gained from all the spirits dieing.  Garrik Fel 15:50, 6 January 2009 (EST)

= My response to all of this =

I was pleased when after the first 6 votes (not the first 6 votes mentioned here, at one point, someone edited theirs, and one just disappeared) it got a rating of 4.45. The votes are all over the scale, yet most of the votes seem real. I just got tired of caring. But this is the first build I posted, (and in case you can't tell, I'm a little obsessed with it) and I want to save it. I posted the build ratings mostly for novelty. Make of it what you will. Well, I'm done with this, try it, it's fun, though it requires work. Garrik Fel 18:56, 17 August 2007 (CEST)