User talk:Jaigoda/A/W Axe Tank

Archive 1

Before frosty or any other pvp fuckers jump in and say "no" I cleared most of UW running this shit oldschool and it's pretty balanced over all. Plenty of damage with tons of personal defense for long extended pulls, plenty of time for balling and spiking, and doing critical damage on an axe isn't why this build shines. Keeping those few key points in mind feel free to discuss. 02:59, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Wasn't this trashed just a month ago, and a few months before that as well? AegisDok 05:33, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Crit Axe: "Uses critical hits to generate energy and extra damage for AoE axe attacks. " Usage is completely different, remove the well. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 12:55, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

No Chonsy Rulez   16:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Jk :P I dont vote PvE builds however. But I dont understand why you dont use a Warrior instead of this, since you dont need so much energy. Chonsy Rulez   16:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Because rerolling in PvE isn't required. We had a bunch of text about it. -- Toraen   confer  16:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Assassin's can't normally deal heavy damage and pull of extended tanking. It's either shadow form for tanking, or damage skills (daggers, scythes, AP). This build works in conjuction with nearly every heroway on pvx. There's literally no reason to trash it. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 16:58, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above statement is seriously misleading and wrong. For a daggerspamming sin to tank/ball, they can rely on prots or spirits, as well as corners for clean balls and spike. If the support from your team isn't strong enough, you need to fix their builds, not the damage dealer. PS+SoA is all you really need. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 23:33, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * He's referring to extended pulling. PS+SoA is great for short pulls, but not as much for if you're actually going to spend much time balling. -- Jai .  -  23:44, April 18 2012 (UTC)
 * Er... Flatbow is good for short pulls. PS+SoA is great for long pulls. But anyway, Bonnetti's Defense is only blocking physical attacks and wanding... There's very little damage coming from those generally, while pulling. Calling this a tank and not Critical Axe is just a joke. Whoever welled it in the beginning was right to do so, because it has been vetted before. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 01:12, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It's grrrrrreat! [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 01:50, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Lol you mustnt roll in PvE? One more reason added to my list of: Why I dont play PvE Chonsy Rulez   17:28, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Basically, we don't expect people to reroll just to run something when their profession will do almost as well and has some advantage to make up for it (see melee rangers). Builds are compared to other builds of their profession (comparison of this to dagger spammer or A/D scythe is acceptable, but between this and W/any axe is moot). This also assumes you are running heroways and not forcing some sub-optimal PuG team as anything worth PuGing has a meta and many players to choose from. -- Toraen   confer  17:36, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Just cleared city with the death's charge variant. Knowing when to use or not use bonetti's is pretty important, SY! on a bad pull is a life saver. I'm going to test veil out next. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 17:51, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It's because you have a very large buffer in which you're still much better than your opponents. AI is so crappy (and static) and builds are so OP that running a build that's slightly less effective than one on another profession isn't worth trashing over. In PvP small differences in effectiveness do matter and there are no achievements associated with individual characters, so there's no reason not to reroll. Often it would take hundreds of hours just to get to the same point as your main character, and all so you can run a slightly superior build. Yeah, not worth it. That part shouldn't really be one of the (many) reasons to stay away from PvE. -- Jai .  -  03:45, April 18 2012 (UTC)

Ok it has Bonetti's Defense. Whats the difference between this and the build currently in trash at User:Jaigoda/A/W Axe Tank at the moment? (none it appears) Chieftain Alex  19:48, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This really should have been a rewrite to the existing page rather than a new one. Functionally I'll be treating this as a rewrite and see how Rask defends it. -- Toraen   confer  22:09, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The difference is the fact that I took into account your incompetence when it comes to balling foes in hard mode PvE and elite areas. Look at that spectacular usage that explains in such jawdropping detail. C-space all you want, but don't try to drag good players down. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 22:22, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If it's meant to operate with a set of heroes with a specific pull, list the heroes and make it a teambuild. Otherwise this is inferior to a jagged-ff-db sin and I'm going to WELL tag it as such.--TahiriVeila 22:26, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * "Any spike build in the game" isn't exactly a specific set of heroes. :/ Tactics are part of a single build's usage, not somehow related to the team build. -- Jai .  -  03:45, April 18 2012 (UTC)
 * Go back to SWTOR. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 03:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

are you saying that +25 armor and a random redundant block skill (inferior to Displacement) makes a bar a tank? screenshot of your UW/DoA tanking please. also inferior to dagger spam, VoS, and 100b. &#9823;Fianchetto 23:58, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No point in a screenshot since anything "can" tank with ST stuff. Chieftain Alex  00:06, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * not true. if he's talking about UW/DoA, it's far from "anything." also, Bonetti's is a wasted slot with most setups. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 00:47, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't know what freeballing is do you? [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 03:55, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you would use saboteur's or nightstalker's for most of high end. bonetti's is pointless unless you're doing hm because of displacement. I don't like selling this as a tank, you're still spamming AoE attacks to abuse splinter weapon and damage buffs. Also defensive stance would work better. you can attack through it and take advantage of critical agility, charge whirlwind attack, and other crap and still leeroy a mob. bonetti's isn't fun to use at all and you have dwarven tability to extend the shit out of the stance. People will still qq at using that as well, but bonetti's looks even worse. Put in EBSoH and stupid crap like IatS melee love to run. Dash is better for freeballing stationary mobs, which is a majority of groups. You're not going to get crit axe vetted though, players won't find it advantageous to use over daggers unless they're playing spike builds. Daggers do way too much damage in every other situation. And then you're going to argue about running 100b/VoS since you're using pretty much the same melee support setup.-- Relyk 04:54, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That's when I run out of boxers and am too lazy to do laundry, right?--TahiriVeila 23:21, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * What are boxers? [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 23:25, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, my name is Vincent and the Salivating Salarian Lingerie is my favorite crossdressing store on the Citadel. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 00:05, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Dupe trololol
IMO just let it get trashed/vetted considering there's all new people around now and arguably someone who actually knows their shit that's arguing for it (other times have just been terrible scrubs trying to make Crit builds for every profession). -- Jai .  -  03:33, April 20 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter how you cover it up, and the whole guild wars community would call this build Crit Axe. I agree with what Pew says; Rask is more keen to vet a play style than a skill selection. The AoE aspect of the build is pointless when you can simply put Whirlwind Attack on a daggerspam build for pulling. WWA+SY (Even bonetti's, but I really think it's a wasted skill) and you have what this build is aiming for. Ball stuff, trigger all the splinters in one hit, then clear up fast with dagger chain. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs  04:10, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * He's saying this is the best build for said play style. It's not that hard. -- Jai .  -  04:12, April 20 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call it optimal. Considering you will get more AoE damage from spamming WWA on recharge alongside Death Blossom whilst Crit axe cannot compare to daggerspam's single-target DPS. I presume he's chosen Bonetti's due to his theory of AI always auto-attacking. Well, yeah, they do auto-attack, but that's not what can get you killed, generally speaking. PS/SoA/Aegis or Shelter/Displacement/Union(maybe, not really required) is all you need. The elite is subpar. The damage isn't bad, but it's got a 10s recharge, which really reduces it's DPS compared to WWA (which charges pretty fast from dagger attacks). ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 04:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Bonetti's is used for long term blocking on large pulls, like in UW when you need to pull 8 aatxe and 12 graspings at once, but it's cool, I bet you can do that on a dagger spammer for sure. When is the last time you beat underworld? DoA? Hell, I'll be generous, FoW? [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 04:32, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Bonetti's slots nicely on a dagger spammer. The axe skills are irrelevant and inferior to daggers. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs  04:38, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * So, you haven't done any of those areas, or any elite areas in how long? FYI daggers are fanfuckingtastic if you like killing things one at a time. I'm going to watch a movie with relyk and chris, you can sit here and pout about how you don't like my builds and I shouldn't be able to vote on builds you like. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 04:46, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Supposedly, this was created by "Tasty". I did UW a little while ago, albeit not with 7 heroes. My micro skills aren't up to the challenge and I cba with Dhuum with heroes. FoW, however, can be completed with 8 empty skill bars; I'd almost consider the notion that I couldn't complete FoW a personal attack. Anyway, stop taking this personally. I'm talking about this build alone. I don't care who's defending it, just counter my arguments and we'll all be dandy. (ugh, using Jaisms) ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 04:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * if this is meant specifically for endgame areas, put that in the description with an explanation of why. otherwise, "Dupe of build that has been deleted multiple times (see deletion log), inferior to dagger spam with "SY!", Triple Chop inferior to 100b/VoS in terms of manly spike." &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 18:02, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Being useful in high-level play is not mutually exclusive from being useful in general play. This be would be strong for anywhere you're balling, and will do relatively close to the damage of VoS anyway, while being noticeably less fragile. Does Rask need to spell everything out for you? -- Jai .  -  13:57, April 22 2012 (UTC)
 * apparently you do...all Rask has been spelling out so far is how this is supertastic in DoA and UW. i assume you're going to propose now this is better than daggers in "general play" &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 14:05, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't really care tbh. I know why Rask is fighting for it and unfortunately for him Soi is on this page, which means autotrolling from him. IMO, at any point where balling would be superior to cspace (a fairly good portion of HM) this has the potential to surpass daggers. Considering that in any AoE spike the majority of the damage comes from the heroes and the player essentially just directs the damage, this build is setup specifically to complement that idea. Now, I'm not going to bother arguing the specifics as I personally don't see this as much more than a 4-4 build, but people at least need to understand what the build is meant for. -- Jai .  -  14:27, April 22 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and one other thing to mention: AoE attacks synergize with Bonetti's much better than autoattacks. With enough stuff balled next to you, you can just Cyclone>Bonetti's for a free recharge of your block stance a la the troll farming war. On daggers (or VoS/100b for that matter) it would be much harder to pull that off, even with WWA, as WWA doesn't recharge itself so you'd have to spend half your time autoattacking to charge your AoE attack. Okay, now I'm out. -- Jai .  -  14:35, April 22 2012 (UTC)

Why was this moved to testing
There was no consensus, even with me gone it would have been fine if you had at least talked about it. Moving it back to testing. 19:51, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * To be fair, are there any further modifications that should be made to the page? Otherwise, keeping it in Trial is just delaying vetting. You can still discuss the build/votes if it's in trash for a whole 2 weeks. If you can't convince people within that time to vote this up, you'll probably never convince them. -- Toraen   confer  21:11, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The votes are still there, and everytime soi jumps on a page everyone moves away from the impending shitstorm. I'd still like some feedback from relyk on his opinion of the build and I'd like to know what you think, after that I'll feel comfortable with moving it to testing to get trashed. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 21:18, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * And to think I've really thought that that unusual build will stay in good. I was suprised to even see good tag,but now everything is back to normal...unfortunately. Triss 10:49, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Remember that time....
When bonettis defense was the best skill ever? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Them 02:15, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * and then Factions came out and rits overran the farm with sticks and pitchforks &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 18:47, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Where
So I should be running this while vanquishing Shing jea island instead of dagger spam due to lack of Soh? <font face="Constantia" color=#D2691E>Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx 23:00, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, why no critical eye? Orphus 00:38, 9 May 2012 (UTC)