User talk:Toraen/Archive 6

Build Packs
Do you have the bot to gather them? I don't have my main computer set up yet, and so I don't have the bot. Karate  Jesus  17:21, 24 November 2010  (UTC)
 * The script is uploaded to the storage account (outside the BP folder obviously). As long as you still have the email/password to the account, you can access and download it. --Toraen 17:31, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

care to elaborate?  ~ PheNaxKian talk  18:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * HHippo said it was an obsolete category on the talk (he also tagged it). --Toraen 18:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * To elaborate, the category had to be manually updated, was very out-of-date, and provides no information that linking to the Admin page doesn't provide. --Toraen 18:45, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * fair enough =). I thought it might be something along those lines, but I just didn't notice a reason was all =p.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  18:46, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Sig Test
Seeing if it substs. Toraen -Gifts Plz 05:51, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Grace_Expired
have fun. If a page needs altering/deleting, then it will have a dark grey background (so currently none)  ~ PheNaxKian talk  23:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Much love <3 Toraen -Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 00:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Mergeway
Hi, saw u changed Life to Recovery in the 2 man mergeway trial build, wondering why? Life synergizes with Life doesn't it? As in at the cost of less heal/energy u get more heals/time. And recovery for condition removal while there are two spammable condtion removals? So maybe the change does deserve a reason at least?Infin 00:07, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 2x Life doesn't make much sense. Heroes won't use it until the previous life is dead (you can only have 1 of a spirit within range of each other at a time) so it's not like you get 2 times the healing of one copy of Life. Recovery is simply a common option that's interchangeable with others like rejuvenation and recuperation. In some areas it's helpful in the event the healers don't MB&S you as a physical with blind because they decided to remove conditions from other party members. Toraen -Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 00:44, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, didnt know heroes did that ^^ --Infin 00:49, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Creating A Build Page
Hey Toraen, How do you create a Page like you did with your builds (VIA on your user page)! Thanx Nore Bane 00:58, 25 December 2010 (UTC) NVM Figured it out! Ty
 * Moo, ec'd me. Also, sign properly please. Toraen -<font face="Courier New" color="DarkRed">Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 01:04, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

account help
sorry to bother you, but i can't get my account e-mail confirmed no matter what i do. I've tried every different account i have including g-mail but it still wont come through, i really need this account confirmed because i have 3 build that i want to rate but i can't unless its done. is there anyway you can help me?--PLACE 04:56, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * We seem to be having a problem with this for all newly registered users. I'll try to nag Curse some more (I am not certain of how much nagging has been done by other admins as of now). Toraen   talk  06:09, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, Bumble just pushed a fix. See if it sends now. Toraen   talk  06:29, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * thanx a heap it works--PLACE 06:56, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

but skill icons in the usage looks pretty =( --TahiriVeila 23:04, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * To me it looks really cluttered. I was sorta going with the general wiki guideline of only linking things once in a page. I know we don't actually do this everywhere though. Toraen   talk  23:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought that in usages we had pretty much migrated to linking the skills in usages (at least the first time they show up in usage) even if they're already present in pvxbig? That's what i've been doing for 2 years anyway xD--TahiriVeila 23:29, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * * shrug* Toraen   talk  23:41, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess I'd just prefer regular links to skill icons in the usage, but revert if you want. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 00:09, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

PvXwiki:Unvetted pages
To anyone stalking my page, vote on shit please. Some of this stuff has been in testing since November. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor 00:11, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Since when the hell do we have Builds on PvX? Danny 11:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Skill descriptions
Whilst you are on, do you know anything about what's going on with them, if there is a little database to edit like last time I would really like to get my teeth into it. <font color="Black">Frostels 00:55, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Phen was coordinating the test server stuff. He said we'd need to keep reminding him about it, so let's spam at him. ABORT HE HAS ASSESSMENTS TO DO. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 00:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * FUCK THE ASSESSMENTS PVX IS CLEARLY MORE IMPORTANTS <font color="Black">Frostels 01:13, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, in my short communication with him, he said that Curse probably does not have the server yet. We could try asking Bumble if we could have a copy of the relevant DBs we could send back after editing (as a temporary solution). He isn't on now though. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 01:18, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Assessments getting handed in any second now ;D. I'll ask Bryan or Bumble if they're around later, but I am still inclined to say there's nothing on the servers (still waiting on hardware), but if someone makes sure that these pages are up to date, I can just ask if he has 5 mins to copy them across. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  13:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

just fyi
HSR for aohm does nothing, putting a staff as optional is stupid and superfluous, all edits made by jai are not in good faith, and it would do you good to use more discretion before abusing admin powers. That is all.-- Relyk  talk  21:00, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Enchant strips happen. Potentially being able to recast sooner is good. Also, regardless of that you did break 1RV and there's not much way around that. Jai was probably just incredibly lucky that I intervened before he inevitably re-reverted and got banned again. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 01:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably. I tend to ignore rules when I know I'm right. :/ But really, an enchanting staff so you can bring fortitude on the scythe is actually a pretty good idea. Also, who the fuck uses defensive sets in PvE??? -- Jai . -  02:29, January 15 2011 (UTC)
 * Defense mod is better than Fortitude mod most of the time. I suppose it doesn't actually matter though because PvE GW. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 02:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

wat
how the heck was i blocked but still editing? o.o Danny 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It's probably just because your old account was perma'd, and then merged. It probably copied over the block log as well, but thankfully didn't actually block you a second time. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 19:34, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Uhm
I know i'm noob, but what happens if you cross sections with pvxbig? some script problems? --Sewa 12:35, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It fucks up scripts, editing sections gets all messed up etc etc. Basically, make sure to close pvxbig tags in each section. <font color="Black">Frostels 14:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you :) --Sewa 14:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It does actually look ok as far as the ToC is concerned if you put one tag at the very beginning and one at the very end, but I'm not sure if it fucks any existing templates or widgets. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 22:08, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Just for you
You gotta love the mob mentality when 1 person disagrees he is automatically wrong eh?Caplan 21:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What? I'd like some context. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 21:58, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh the IA vote. It was your reasoning that was stupid (draw is a waste of energy against IA+AP) and it actually seemed to contradict your rating (your reasoning implied it wasn't worth running). Your numbers (4-4 I believe) were fine for that build since it isn't a meta build. I didn't remove it because it wasn't 5-5. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 08:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * when one person who disagrees is dumb, he is automatically wrong. you are correct. Danny 21:01, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

hey so about the DB's, I've got a meeting but i'll be on about 12/1 to update them. What shall we do about these flash enchantments, I guess for now we can simply call them enchantments and make sure they have no cast time (will be able to differentiate them from normal enchantments then). Other than that, I look forward to changing every dervish skill! <font color="Black">Frostels 09:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Infact I'll do some now since I've got time <3 <font color="Black">Frostels 09:15, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I actually did most of the work, double-checking would be appreciated though. The update notes (at least on GWW) are actually wrong in some places, so watch out for that. And yeah, just call any flash enchantments 'Enchantment Spells' and the second type field should be 'en'. I'm pretty sure typing in Flash Enchantment Spell would break it. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 15:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, I thought we were just leaving PvP skills there if they were merged in case they get reintroduced. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 15:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * How do you refresh the skill changes so that they show up correctly on pvxbig stuff? Tool 311 01:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If a page is showing outdated skills, do a null edit (edit->save, but make no changes). Keep in mind there were some typos in the last DB sync and a few missed things (like Lyssa's Haste). I'll have to bug the Curse admins when they're on to get all the changes I've made since the last sync uploaded. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 04:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Basically, see here for errors we've already found, and here to see the current editcopies. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 04:37, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, so a db sync is needed. I was just wondering since your skill edits aren't showing on the build pages yet.  Thanks.Tool 311 04:42, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

"text files take up a lot of space right?"
Pages aren't stored as text files, they're stored on a database over multiple tables. plus text files can take up a lot of space...it just depends on how much is in them >.>. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  03:00, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I know that, but still, they're not that big. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 03:25, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's weird that MS Notepad sucks so much at handling text files over a few hundred MB, but my bulkier text-editing programs can open them instantly. Even my multi-gig logfiles and like the FB data leak. Another failure on the part of MS, I'd say. Danny 20:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * you're using notepad, that's probably where you're going wrong >.>. I tend to use word 2010, otherwise Google docs is really nice. (I find open office to be horrible (for me anyway)).
 * Then again I don't think i've had any massive files to work with. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian  <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  21:41, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Voting while in Trial
I'm pretty sure (iirc) that you're not supposed to vote until a build is in Testing...And if this is true, what happens if loads of people DO vote while the build is on trial mode? And also, when voting, is it allowed to compare to other builds of totally different profession (Like could i rate, for example, the E/Me vaettir farmer 0 and say, Oh A/Me is much faster [not that i want to do that, both are awesome]) Thanks in advance --<font color="#2145A1">Blue Screen Of <font color="Black">Doom  15:25, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * For PvE builds, votes comparing builds of different primaries are 'less' allowed since rerolling PvE characters sinks some time. If say, there was a R/Mo healer it would be trashed (or more likely WELL'd) as inferior to monks/rits/necros/eles since no one would accept a ranger healer into their party (for obvious reasons). In the vaettir example you mentioned, E/Me isn't that much slower than A/Me so it's fine for there to be a build for people to farm on their eles. Use your judgment in such cases and people will yell at you if you turn out to be wrong anyway.
 * Trial voting isn't allowed, because if a build is in trial, it is not finished. If the build has no more adjustments needed, move it up to testing so voting can proceed while people are still interested in the build. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 17:48, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah fair 'nuff, that cleared up some things for me :D Thanks alot!--<font color="#2145A1">Blue Screen Of <font color="Black">Doom  17:50, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've never really understood that. It's not like we don't make changes to builds while they're in Testing or even live. Danny 20:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * They tend to be small changes. We expect changes in the Trial stage to potentially alter/effect the build dramatically, where as changes in testing/vetting is generally only done to take into account recent updates. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  21:44, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually large changes happen pretty often in Testing or on vetted builds-- Relyk  talk  22:39, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking they shouldn't. Major changes should take place during the stub and trial stages. Changes their after should just be slight tweaks (such as making it more efficient by changing one skill for another that's identical but cheaper or faster etc.). If it's a major change that occurs then the build should have the votes wiped (but usually people alter their votes so we don't need to). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:42, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Except that so many builds just get constantly updated to stick to meta. You might have a point in the letter of the policy, but practice is wildly different. We either ought to allow voting in trials or just eliminate the category, if you ask me. We're a build storage site, after all, not a theorycraft site. Changes are expected, drastic or otherwise, whenever the meta for a build shifts.
 * Or we can "lolpvx" and just pretend none of this matters because, really, it doesn't. Danny 21:30, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I always figured trial builds should simply be in userspace with some kind of cat tag to help people find the builds to give input on. Sort of like the GWW feedback section except not shitty. - Auron 22:06, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * not shitty, just ignored and pointless? Danny 10:35, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

E/N orders ele
Any idea where it went? It seems to have disappeared...-- Relyk  talk  07:33, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Build:E/N Ether Renewal Orders Hero. It got trashed, and the grace period expired. it's still great at pvx@wikia though. -- Brandnew. 07:57, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * When did that happen? e/n orders is way more common than the other two lolpvx-- Relyk  talk  08:55, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe Grinch just thought it sucked, and people just bandwagonned his vote. Brandnew 09:52, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think Grinch had a vote on it when I deleted it. I voted good, but I cba arguing votes with people anymore. If you feel it should be restored, I guess it could be tried again. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 13:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought it was good and worthy of keeping. It honestly should be on the wiki: it's a common enough build that's effective at its task. I, personally, rated it a 4 something.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 17:13, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Might have been Jake then, i don't really recall. -- Brandnew. 17:29, 15 March 2011 (UTC)-- Brandnew.  17:29, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not even that, it's meta in pve for using racway or anytime someone wants orders afaik.-- Relyk  talk  23:05, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Since this much chatter over a build counts as a lot these days, I've restored it for re-vetting. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 01:15, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

vandalbotspammer
Dunno if PvX has an admin noticeboard, so I figure I'll just bug the last admin I saw online. User:Mollcair appears to be a spambot or something similar; made an account a few hours ago, then created the page "Free Detroit Chat Rooms" (which I marked for deletion already). Just giving you the heads-up, although you'll likely notice it as soon as you look at the RC. --<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  12:50, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * it does, per the link on the navigation portlet on the left. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  13:15, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ...you must have added that in after I commented, because I most definitely took the time to look for it as far as you know. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  20:45, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * nope, been there since....well I can't remember when =p. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * phen specifically set it so you couldn't see it with some of his coding mojo, he's craftier than you would think-- Relyk  talk  00:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If I had known he was still active on this wiki, I would have been a lot more careful. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  10:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Build suggestions
Hi. I understand why you removed the example builds from the 7 Hero Player Support page. I had just added them for some concrete examples to guide players because there are quite a few optionals (which I know some people don't like). My question is: what is the policy on build sub-pages? Like Build:Buildname/Build_Suggestions, and then add a couple of build suggestions there with a link to it on the build's main page? I would think it useful to show a few example builds to differentiate between caster support and melee support to help players decide. Thanks. Dzjudz 02:58, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * We love optionals and it's inevitable for a full team of heroes. Why do you need example builds? You should be able to run the builds listed using any of the optional skills. Listing an example doesn't add anything to the article, it's made redundant by listing the optional skills in the first place. The only time subpages should/have been used are on boss farming due to the colossal article it creates.
 * On a broader note, the primary problem I have with with the 7 hero update is that it's the same as a real team. You can post a general hero team, but if it isn't designed for a specific purpose, you're left with a cesspool of optional slots. There's no point in keeping such builds. If you have to give an example build, it's a sign that the build isn't worth posting in the first place.-- Relyk  talk  03:55, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "You should be able to run the build listed using any of the optional skills." I agree and that is currently the case as well. Perhaps the difference between caster and melee player optional choices should be made more apparent as a note at the heroes' optional skills. "You can post a general hero team, but if it isn't designed for a specific purpose, you're left with a cesspool of optional slots. There's no point in keeping such builds." True, there will always be a few optionals with such builds. The main point, the core of the team is fixed though and clear. Thanks for your answer. Dzjudz 12:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Vote wipe
Build:D/any PvP Avatar of Balthazar - you mind vote wiping this? It didn't get touched too much by the update, by the bars it was inferior to got nerfed, and its now one of the best available melee bars. Idiot 19:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 19:34, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

"remember that there are no longer BMs so we can only remove very obviously wrong votes"
Since when? admins removed votes at their own discretion even before BMs, unless you think admins should only remove a vote depending on it's validity-- Relyk  talk  06:10, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * since BMs were implemented. We decided that BMs were the ones that were trusted to have the knowledge, and while originally admins were required to have a decent understanding, somewhere along the line (way before most of you joined) that slowly stopped being as important (mostly because there was already a decent number of those admins).
 * As such, now our Admins don't have to be good at the game (per me >>), so we're not really supposed to remove votes because we get lots of bitching about how we're bad.
 * So now we leave it to you guys to sort it out (as it should have been for a while (imo at least)) because chances are both of you are missing something.
 * of course we're still allowed to remove blatantly incorrect/troll votes (such as voting on a monk and saying "this warrior bar sucks") <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  11:15, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * To clarify I guess, I believe we are allowed to remove contested votes if the author refuses to defend their vote against solid reasoning from other users. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 15:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * quality vote copypasta:

tags n sht
so, i was writing a not-very-witty and generally bad reply to the above conversation when i realized that the  tag and tag both break on line-breaks. now, this isn't much of an issue with spans, but for anything else it's a small problem. especially pre tags since those are supposed to be, well, pre-formatted with whitespace. fixplz? Danny 05:57, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I am far from the right person to ask about that. Unrelated news: I might want your help with the pvxbig extension at some point, interested? -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 21:01, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the code tag (Without looking throughly anyway), but the pre tag comes as part of the MW instalation (it's defined in parser.php), and I don't know what that file looks like (I don't have a MW installation anywhere for playing around on atm), so all i can suggest is shoot curse an e-mail and have them look into it (though at the rate they've been going at the moment i really wouldn't hold your breath...). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  21:59, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * i'll see if maybe it was part of what i was writing that broke it. otherwise, i'll probably forget to e-mail them and this won't ever come up again because no one cares. <3 Danny 22:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems the &lt;pre&gt; tag looks ok until you try to put colons in front of it. So you have to resort to using the &lt;dl&gt;&lt;dd&gt; stuff instead.

<dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd> Testing Abcdefghijklmnop 1 2   3    4     5 </dl></dl></dl></dl>
 * Ugly, yes. Tool 311 03:32, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * maybe. depends on what you mean by "help" and when this is going to be happening. if it can wait until classes are over (mid-May), that'd be ideal since I'd have a ton more free time. Danny 22:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It'll be the various things on the Curse Noticeboard related to pvxcode. Don't worry about it until the changes we've made already go up though. It's taking a while for some reason. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 00:19, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That'd be Sac costs (possiably, I could probably handle it if i get chance to look, but like Danny, it'd be mid May before I can garuntee that), making PvE skills scale correctly, and linking.
 * Primary atts. should be sorted when curse sync. The display pictures are easy to fix, I'd just need a list of the ones that are wrong/don't have one and send some pics to curse to add/replace. Finally the PvP skills and templates, I can't remember if we're waiting on the sync, or if we just haven't added it yet. I think it's the latter because i think i wanted to make sure the list was up to date first. However if that's the case it's easy to do as poke supplied a solution a while back (which is what i'd have used anyway =v).
 * and i don't care about that little thing about links to gww at the bottom because it seems pointless. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:36, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * oh, right, rank attributes and that shit. shouldn't be too hard for those. and what's the issue with sacs? Danny 15:31, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Health sac. currently doesn't show up in the skill descriptions. It'd be a case of adding an extra attribute to the skills array and a function to add it to the desc. (similar to upkeep). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian  <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  16:42, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

UW Trapway
that was deleted due to author request a while back, but is there any chance you could get it back/move it to my userspace? I'd like to try it. Thanks! Falrach 19:09, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There you go. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 20:44, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Poke
Just wondering if its allowed to have pointless sections on a talk page like this.Anvil God 00:31, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It's allowed. Wouldn't want to have to ban every user on the site. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 00:32, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * really, would that be a bad thing? Danny 18:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * tehehe you killed the extension file <3.Anvil God 00:22, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * tehehe you killed the extension file <3.Anvil God 00:22, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Sync
Just letting you know that i've e-mailed Bumble (and Bryan) asking for an ETA on the sync (because I'm worried it's taking a while what with the skills not being synced (though i imagine that's because they were reverted with gwbbcode when the functionality broke =v)). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  14:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Good. I'm pretty sure they were waiting on us to give the ok for a db sync though, to be on the safe side. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 14:22, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * well i gave them the A-OK for the sync about a week ago. Just got an e-mail from bumble though, she said that my e-mail was in her spam folder so she didn't see it. Files have been downloaded so shouldn't be too long =). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  15:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You guys quit picking on me, for some reason it went to my spam. I'm sorry. ;; It won't happen again. It sat there for 6 days. --Bumble 15:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No Toraen just like to be kept in the loop and it's easier if i tell him here (then others can see as well) =p.
 * Anyway, I suck. The fix didn't...fix =<. (I've sent you an e-mail Bumble because there's a couple of other files that need syncing regardless =p) <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  15:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

General 3-Heroes
Can't we archive 3-hero teams, after the 7-hero update?  Slayer  à la  Shadow Form   18:36, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No - theres still 4 man areas with Istan, Ascalon & Shing Jea etc. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  18:41, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmmmmm, yeah, otherwise we could ;) [[Image:Shadow_Form~_Slayer.jpg|19px]] Slayer  à la  Shadow Form   18:42, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

sections hiding from you
A F K When Needed 23:09, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Or Counters.
 * Or See Also. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 23:11, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Open pvxbig tag... Dzjudz 23:16, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

some extension crap that'd be useful to be done
Basicaly a couple of the problems on the noticeboard can be fixed really easy, and don't involve us tweaking the main file, so I figured we could sort them out (basicaly it's to do with PvP skill ID's for the most part).
 * 1) Get all the correct PvP skill ID's and put them in a list (in form: "Skillname: ID" (skillname is important obv.)) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7.
 * It might also be worth having the PvE ID's next to it to make life easier for one of the things I have in mind.


 * 1) save/download any pictures that need uploading (the missing or incorrect pictures).
 * These pictures should be 64x64 pixels, .jpg and should be called the skills skill ID (for example Flail is 1404.jpg)


 * 1) Do #2 for any current PvP skills (as they will need a new picture uploading when the skill ID is changed on the skill array).
 * 2) when done poke Bryan to get the pics uploaded.

Once all that's been done we're basically set to implement the fix for PvP skills in template codes that poke gave us (just need to update his little array of PvP -> PvE ID's, which step one basically makes easy =p). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  12:25, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Those lists are missing 5 pvp skills unfortunately: Aura of Thorns, Dust Cloak, Lyssa's Haste, Visions of Regret, and Fevered Dreams. I've got the rest copied over though. Fixed their wiki. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 21:06, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Images done. Has the two changed pictures as well as the PvP ones. The five skills above aren't included since we're just going to be getting different IDs for them (soon hopefully) anyway. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 23:40, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * And Skill ID list. It's just the skillname_db with the lines reformatted to what you wanted and the names capitalized/quoted as needed. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 17:31, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking of getting another sync set up soon for all 4 DBs and the skill icons. Is there anything else we'd like to have ready for that? -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor 01:59, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

http://www.gwpvx.com/index.php?title=Build:Team_-_HA_OotV_Sinway&curid=101361&diff=1146024&oldid=1146019
Sorry, looked like spam or something to me, since the templates didn't work in PvXDecode. Makes sense now. -- Jai . -  19:27, April 26 2011 (UTC)

How long will the troll's be allowed to roam free?
There's supposed to be an anti troll policy here no? Enforce it. http://www.gwpvx.com/Build_talk:D/any_General_PvE_VoS_tank YuriZahard 21:51, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I see how you made up your own policy there. Anvil God 22:27, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.gwpvx.com/News/20080512 YuriZahard 23:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Who in the world are you and why are you demanding anything of Toraen? Trying to "fight trolling" because you think wrong was done to/on your talk page is a rather awful way to start out here. Aonsephonie 23:33, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a difference between trolling and flaming. Anvil had valid points against your build, though he didn't exactly present them in a non-confrontational manner, which is basically flaming. Nowadays, flaming is technically a bannable offense, but rarely is actually punished. However, PvX has seen so many terrible "tank" builds over the years that it's hard not to flame them on sight. In the vast majority of cases, tanking in general PvE is highly frowned upon because you can almost always have a hero put Prot Spirit and SoA on you and be fine. Hell, the good majority of places would be just as fast with loose or no balling as they would with balling; most of the other places you can use Prot Spirit and maybe a shadow step to group everything in a short time. -- Jai . -  00:25, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that this build is not a general tank or anything we'd associate with such. It literally just uses VoS to ball things for AoE spikes more efficiently. The build should probably be moved to a name that doesn't use the word "Tank" due to the negative mental image it conjures here (which has been built up upon the memories of many wammo tanks). -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 00:33, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The point is that whether or not it's actually a "tank", you rarely need more than a prot or two to do what the VoS build is trying to do. -- Jai . -  00:37, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, pulling up a news page from nearly 3 years ago isn't exactly doing much for your argument. PvX was very different back then. -- Jai . -  00:43, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * Honestly it's general sentiment still applies. Also, now that I've read through the talk page fully, I can see that Anvil's ignoring a lot of the points being presented to him and honestly many of his arguments look kind of dumb from where I'm sitting. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 00:55, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, this far I've created two builds and he's been acting the same way in both of them. If you check my talk page it's just the same. And it's nothing but deteriorate for every single one of the discussions he's in. Someone who simply put just uses this page to troll other users contributing real material should not be allowed to roam free. I like how the article I linked to says "Inveterate or not" cause I really wonder how many others he's pissed off before I came here and how many other talk pages he does nothing but to troll at. YuriZahard 05:13, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to comment. Just because there's a policy doesn't mean you can demand someone to enforce it. By all means request someone to look at it. But I assure you the person you're demanding to do something won't look favourably upon you, regardless of how right you are, and when you're wanting them to be on your side, that's not something you want... I'm also choosing to ignore the fact you just went directly to an admin instead of posting this on the admin noticeboard, which should be the first port of call for these issues Also, like Jai said, when that news article was created, PvX was a lot worse (Jai's exact words were "different", but I assure you it was worse) than it is now. That was just my little rant <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  01:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Check the talk page, look at how the guy instead of having a proper discussion is just acting like an idiot with intent. Then you can check the talk page on the 7 heroes for melee players, and see how he's doing the same thing there, contributing jack shit to the discussion and just trolling away. And then you can check my talk page, oh damn he's doing the same thing there too. That's just on my pages alone and it's already getting a bit old. Now how many other pages is he doing exactly the same thing on? YuriZahard 05:13, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Amazingly, Anvil actually hasn't pissed anyone else off (at least not to the degree where I've gotten word of it). You're going to get criticism here, both correct and incorrect. The best you can do is explain your build/strategies and not be hostile. Don't start pestering admins all the time to get someone banned. It makes you look entitled and quite annoying. Anvil definitely did troll and he's just received the last warning I will give, but you are also at fault (less so, but still a problem) for throwing in insults to him into your explanations, both taking his bait and setting bait of your own. Avoid this. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 06:08, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, not gonna sit around justifying my own actions on that behalf. I have a highly limited patience towards disruptive behavior and trolling YuriZahard 07:03, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The key to surviving pvx is to learn to filter. You will seldom(read:never) get comments on your build that do not include some form of trolling or flaming. However, that doesnt necessarily mean that the post does not contain valid points. If you constantly focus on the trolling rather than the actual content, you'll rage like countless others. The main points against your build include allies not being able to cast on you while under vos and the fact that there are very few areas in the game where a spell protection is necessary. You can argue that VoS is self-strippable, but you cant afford to do that if you're tanking a mob of casters and physicals because the amount of damage on you will dramatically increase, and the monsters spike damage is much faster than your heroes reactions to the damage. The second point can't even be argued, its just fact. 98.207.35.105 08:01, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually you base the second point on the VoS build being an alternative to a Shadowform tank. Hence it can very easily be argued on. The VoS build is not made to ball up two or three groups but to survive while quickly balling up the majority of the foes in a single group. Vow of Silence should only be used to survive while the rest of your team is out of range.
 * Take the aggro bubble on your map, the aggro bubble of your enemies and your heroes is the same as your own. When you run in to a group, their melee will run towards you to meet you. If the aggro bubble of their melee characters touches the aggro bubble of your own characters, then the enemy can engage the rest of your team. But if the only character in range is you, then you are the only person they will attack and follow. This allows you to to use your speed boost to run past the enemy and pull their melee characters with you, back towards their casters. Grouping up the majority of the casters and all of the melee characters. You then proceed to strip Vow of Silence and execute your kill combo while the rest of the team runs in towards you in order to heal you and nuke the enemy. With all the enemies within adjacent range skills such as Ray of Judgment, SS, Pain of Disenchantment, VoR, Splinter Weapon, Reap Impurities and Aura of Thorns will hit all your enemies spiking down the majority of the group. If this was a group of 5 foes, and you manged to ball up four of them and spike them down and you're now left with only one. You can flag your heroes where you fought the current group, let spirits and minions finish up the remaining single mob, and proceed to the next group balling them up. Rinse and repeat. For hero and henchmen play, this is the single most effective play-style in the game. YuriZahard 08:26, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You generalize way too much. First off, you would be able to do just what you said without VoS much of the time. Second, casters and melees tend to ball themselves, so as long as you sit for a minute so that the melees ball around you, you really don't have to work to group them up. As you said, you'd have to get lucky to ball entire mob into one group. Also, tank n' spank is only the most effective method in some of the game. There are places it either won't work or simply won't be worth it. In most other areas, the amount of effort needed wouldn't be worth the amount of time saved. The areas that are left are elite areas and such, where you should be making a specific team build, rather than trying to make general PvE, one-size-fits-all builds. -- Jai . -  13:47, April 27 2011 (UTC)

Quick Question
For a 7-hero build, if it's a specific profession for the player, does that bring down universality? In my eyes it wouldn't because it'd be a similar situation to farming builds, where it's judged for its specific purpose. It's not like the two-man builds where you would be requiring two specific professions. I wanted to ask because of this, since several people are voting low on universality since it's designed specifically for paras. Also, both the 1-man and 2-man Racway builds use a specific primary profession. :/ -- Jai . -  03:30, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say that universality doesn't really need to take more than a single point off for limiting the player to single profession in this case. 7-heroes means you can tune a team to work the best with your profession it possibly can. Technically, such a build should have higher effectiveness than a build that will work for any primary, but isn't optimized to the player's strengths (like discord and sabway builds that don't take buffs for melee players). Universality's contribution totals to one point, so it's not that significant. Also, I'm sure others would disagree with me on the first point but that's my position. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 03:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, I can see the build working fine for an R/W Barrager using SY. Maybe it could be added as a variant player build? -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 03:39, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that could work as well. -- Jai . -  03:50, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * Sabway with a caster? Discordway with a warrior? Neither works very well. A 7 hero build always has to be adapted towards the player character and if the build isn't adapted. Then it simply put cant be good given how different the play-styles of the different classes are. That said Racway-approaches simply put have too low damage for my taste. It seems okey for a while but once you enter say Slaver's Exile and realize how absolutely terrible the damage done by the build really is then you change your mind.YuriZahard 05:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Those have basically been my thoughts, actually. Of course, the damage of the Racway build is at least decent, considering the amount of Splinters and raw physical damage and stuff. It's a hell of a lot more than the original Racway. Still, that's the main point of why I'm unsure about the effectiveness of the 7 hero build. -- Jai . -  05:28, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * Honestly I'm not sure if that's correct. The orders plus the Four paragons wont top more then 200 DPS single target vs 60 a AL target, seeing how the SoS + SoGM heroes that are currently party of the meta peaks around 300 by themselves and constantly stays above 200 and that's armor ignoring you can see how little that is. And even if you add in the two splinters it's just not going to hold up. I honestly believe that if you cut the four first heroes in that build and replace them with Lo Sha, Herta, Mhenlo and Cynn in Eye of the North you will be dealing as much damage in HM as you will with the four rac-way. What I'm saying now is untested though, but based on the research I did on racway before the release of the 7 hero patch i believe it to be pretty accurate.YuriZahard 05:59, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Barbs and EBSoH, along with Anthem of Envy and 2-3 copies of GftE. Not to mention the DPS of the minions with Barbs and GftE, and the +damage from Anthem of Envy with the spirits. I'm not saying it'll be more damage than other setups, but it should at least be relatively close. And of course, if you're dealing like 300-400 DPS between the spirit spam and the para's, that means just about anything will die within 2 seconds, and the rest will go faster with all the Splinter spam (which you could precast on everyone for massive asplosions if you wanted to). -- Jai . -  06:15, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * No, feel free to test the spirit spam yourself vs master of damage, it's one of the few things you can reliably test there. Even before factoring in splinter weapon a SoS + SoGM ritualist would be able to deal between two and three hundred DPS presuming communing and channeling is at 16 points attribute. Adding in splinter weapon that number would increase. So even if you presume barbs at 16 points attribute triggers six or seven times per second it would still simply just be on par with SoS + SoGM ritualists before factoring in splinter weapon. And that includes EBSOH too, feel free to test vs master of damage. And keep in mind that master of damage is a 60 AL target while HM enemies easily go past 100 AL which halves the amount of damage dealt by non-armor ignoring damage. Which means you can cut at least 1\4th of the damage done by the paragons. YuriZahard 06:34, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You also do realize that the original Racway only has three paras (including the Imbagon), no curses, no MM, no spirits, and next to no AoE? And that you're comparing hero builds to massively shitty henchman builds? Each of those henchies will deal maybe 50 DPS max, and that's a stretch already. Every single one of the builds in the above team, save for maybe the Orders and MM, will be dealing at least 70+ DPS. Hell, the spirit spam rit along would be dealing somewhere in the ballpark of 200-300 DPS when you factor in Splinter Weapon. That'd almost be more than the entire original Racway with henchies. I'm sorry, but I just can't see the truth in your arguments here. -- Jai . -  06:24, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * I like how you're arguing with him about a point he agreed on. The build in question has 8 offensive spirits.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  06:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I got EC'ed double up and only noticed one of them, if you take a closer look you will see he made two posts. The one I was replying to is the first one but due to EC it got placed behind the second one. Happy? YuriZahard 07:00, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So what are you trying to say, that SoS+SoGM is godly and nothing else can compare to its damage? Wow, that's totally news to everybody. I honestly don't see your point. I don't even see what you're trying to argue. You can't have more than one set of spirit spam, so its DPS compared to the rest of the team matters very little. The paras themselves should be able to deal somewhere in the ballpark of 50 DPS each, and that's with very realistic uptimes and attack speeds (the maximum theoretical DPS would be somewhere around 70-100 DPS each). -- Jai . -  13:37, April 27 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's in bad taste to require a specific profession for a build when any profession could conceivably run it. The reason racway is an exception is the fact you're basing the build off spamming "Save Yourselves!" with imbagon and that comes with melee goodness and EBSoH. It would be the same if you were running a searing flame heroway for ele or energy surge spike with mes. is a good example of when you don't need a primary profession.-- Relyk   talk  08:37, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I was mostly talking about the 7 hero Racway. You'd agree that requiring an Imbagon (or possibly a ranger variant) would not lower universality? -- Jai . -  17:03, April 27 2011 (UTC)

http://www.gwpvx.com/index.php?title=Build%3AD%2Fany_Wounding_Strike_Dervish&action=historysubmit&diff=1146219&oldid=1146218
It's typically run with Harrier's Grasp. Thanks for the catch. Aonsephonie 15:27, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:Build-update
it cuts out the space between "update" and "on", I guess because of the parameter.-- Relyk  talk  09:22, 29 April 2011 (UTC)