User talk:71.229.204.25/How to get a build WELLed

I have been told by many people that I should post this up. I never did because it is very similar to the 55 monk builds, but I was finally convinced to do it. I hope people do not slam me too hard with the "its the same as a 55 monk build" comments! After thinking about it, I really think this build, though very similar, makes use of some very different techniques, such as Mysticism energy gain and heavier regeneration than conventional 55's. If this is no different than a 55 monk and shouldn't have its own page, then the other 2-3 variations of a 55 monk shouldn't neither! - Lord Xivor 11:44, 14 September 2007 (CEST)


 * No, I'm sorry, this really is identical. A monk with mystic regeneration is just as good as this because prot spirit is superior on the monk (5 health instead of 8). Also, mysticism is quite useless for you because your enchantments are long lasting. Also, Guide:Invinci-Monk Guide.  —ǥrɩɳsɧ ƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 17:51, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Then, according to your logic, all of the following builds should not exist on this database and be merged into one.
 * Archive:Mo/any 55hp Farmer
 * Build:Mo/any 55hp Farmer
 * Build:N/Mo 55hp Boss Farmer
 * But, I do not see you deleting them anytime soon, now do I? - Lord Xivor 18:08, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Also, you are wrong about Mysticism = useless. Every time SoA and Shielding Hands end, Mysticism is triggered, as well as SOJ & Zealot's Fire (but those are slower recharging enchantment).  Mysticism never benefits from Prot Spirit and Mystic Regen due to never letting them fall off.  As well, go try this...and a 130hp dervish build in Fahranur City and see which is more useful.  Yeah, that is what I thought.  I am no noob...I have tested it out.  Because of the lower health and nature of the setup, this can survive in many places a 130hp derv cannot. - Lord Xivor 18:10, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Guide:Invinci-Monk Guide. They already ARE all merged. However, you lack
 * Also, you are wrong about Mysticism = useless. Every time SoA and Shielding Hands end, Mysticism is triggered, as well as SOJ & Zealot's Fire (but those are slower recharging enchantment).  Mysticism never benefits from Prot Spirit and Mystic Regen due to never letting them fall off.  As well, go try this...and a 130hp dervish build in Fahranur City and see which is more useful.  Yeah, that is what I thought.  I am no noob...I have tested it out.  Because of the lower health and nature of the setup, this can survive in many places a 130hp derv cannot. - Lord Xivor 18:10, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Guide:Invinci-Monk Guide. They already ARE all merged. However, you lack


 * 1) Blessed Aura, for ease of maintainment
 * 2) Runes in smiting, protection, etc
 * 3) A long-enough lasting Shielding Hands and Shield of Absorption
 * I fail to see how this has ANY advantage over a primary monk. Zealot's Fire will cause scatter and SLOW the run down. Also, I never said you were noob. I was merely pointing out why this build is worse than the countles number of vetted monk builds we have.  —ǥrɩɳsɧ ƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 20:39, 14 September 2007 (CEST)
 * So I guess you are just reaffirming my point. How is my build any less viable than the others that are posted, for example, the 55 SV?  It utilizes the same principles as well, but I still see that build vetted.  Your argument is that since it is similar, it should not be vetted.  My argument is that yes, it is similiar, as are many other vetted builds, so therefore, there is no reason why this build should not be vetted nor should it be slammed.


 * I would like to point out that by using Mystic Regeneration with 13 Earth Prayers, this build can farm many areas that a 55 monk or a 130 derv cannot. To be honest, this is my Fahranur City farmer, but I have found that it has use in many other areas of the game as well for farming.  A monk cannot get health regeneration that high, unless he finds ways to put points into Healing Prayers AND Earth Prayers as a Dervish secondary.  To me, this makes this build even more viable in many areas as a Dervish primary over a Monk primary..BECAUSE you can have higher Earth Prayers, allowing +4 health regeneration per enchantment, rather than +3, using the hidden regeneration to counter very heavy health degen from foes. - Lord Xivor 00:49, 15 September 2007 (CEST)


 * May I point out that this is NOT a build designed for a primary monk? Look at it again please. It is a build for a DERVISH. So why the heck are you comparing it to a monk build?  People looking for builds to solo on their DERVISH are not going to go looking for a MONK build.  There are two builds on here. The A/E Shadow Form Boss Farmer and the E/A Shadow Form Boss Farmer. They use practically the same skills. In the most basic sense. Yet they have two distinct and separate build pages. Why? Because they are for DIFFERENT CLASSES. Each build has its own distinct tactics and obstacles at the most meticulous level.  If someone has a dervish and no monk. Why would they go looking through MONK builds with divine favor skills and related tactics? They wouldn't!


 * I play a 55 monk. My 55 monk is for the most part superior to this build. But why on earth would I discredit a DERVISH build on account of what my MONK can do? It doesn't make sense. I've seen this build in action. I had Lord Xivor take me out and show it in action. He was gracious enough to do so. It worked and it worked well. He was very knowledgeable and intelligent. It was evident that he had spent a lot of time fine tuning the build for a DERVISH. It has an insane amount of regeneration that a monk can NOT reach with the same skill setup. It does its job. It works. Isn't that all we're looking for here? Matthew Edmund 07:17, 15 September 2007 (CEST)

This would be superior on a monk in every way tbh. And the "but this is a derv!" argument doesnt mean much. Its like submitting a 55 Paragon just because its possible. Anyways, here's how something like this is superior on a monk primary: Here's why those builds are up there while this one shouldn't: Now, look at this build: [build prof=Monk/Dervish Smiting_Prayers=11+3+1 Protection_Prayers=9+3 Divine_Favor=6+3 Earth_Prayers=9 heal=3+3][Protective Spirit][Shield of Absorption][shielding hands][Mystic Regeneration] [Shield of Judgment][mending][Balthazar's Spirit][Blessed Aura][/build] Is yours, in any way better than this? This can farm much more efficiently, as it has a lot more damage. It also has the same regen when SoJ is off and only 1 less when its on. Anyways, thats my twenty-two cents. --Teh Uber Pwnzer  09:33, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * More damage
 * More damage nullification(on a monk, SoA + Shielding Hands together can be used to reduce all dmg to 0 100% of the time)
 * You don't need 100 regen... you only need a tiny amount if your taking 0 dmg.
 * Enchantments last longer because of Blessed Aura
 * Those are all incredibly efficient(yours is not).
 * Besides the SoA Silver and the N/Mo boss farmer, they all have a different use. Both the boss farmers are there because they both work well(yours does not).
 * Its simply not a good build compared to the ones you listed.


 * I see. So you've actually tried the build? The Dervish argument means a lot. He created a DERVISH SOLO FARMING BUILD. Yet here we are debunking it because a monk can do it better? The point is to decide whether the build works or not. I've seen him use. It works perfectly fine. "You don't need 100 regen...". Have you even tried the build? Have you ever farmed the area the build is meant for? Meh. When you create a DERVISH build for DERVISH characters you see if the build works well for a DERVISH. Have you even tried it out? Have you even watched it in action? Matthew Edmund 09:57, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Don't waste your breath. I just happened to step on the toes of the monk-only fan-boys.  Common sense will not apply here.  Do not let an idiot beat you down with experience to their level.  Thats my two sense.  I don't need a build that works beautifully to show up on their precious site for it to be good and for it to work.  I know it works.  Others know it works.  That is all that matters.  And as such, I will continue to successfully farm with it.  Think I am going to make a monk from scratch and bring it all the way through a campaign just to farm what I can already farm?  Nope, not at all.  I offer an alternative, and its the spawn of Satan.  If event he sysops of this very community are going to be as degrading as this pathetic one is, then I will just keep my builds to myself, because it is less stressful than dealing with the mentality of 2yr olds that I am finding on this website.  Good day, and do not expect me to contribute to this website ever again.  I boycott you all because of your pathetic lack of intelligence and your superb inability to decipher the difference between an apple and a banana.  If you do not get what I mean, then think on it, pray on it, and think on it some more.  Maybe then you will realize that a MONK is not a DERVISH and vice versa.  Good day. - Lord Xivor 12:30, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I'll be frank. That build directly above this is infinitely better in every way. I just tried your build and my only reaction is "meh." The fact that it's a dervish means NOTHING. What we care about is that the build is better than what we have. Is it? No, no it's not. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  13:04, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * So, you are saying that the ONLY builds allowed on PvXWiki are builds that are created and are superior than other builds already on it FROM A DIFFERENT CLASS? For a while there, I thought PvXWiki was about allowing people the ability to share their builds for EACH classification, that way if someone had a Mesmer and wanted a Mesmer farming build, they can go to the Mesmer section and find a Mesmer farming build.  I sure do not know of anyone that is going to come onto PvXWiki that is looking for a Dervish farming build that is going to go to the Monk section to find one.  But, your limited intelligence seems to think that this is the way that PvXWiki is designed to be used.  And if that is the case, then many people will want no part in it.  I know of many people now that are boycotting this site because of the fact that you say that I am not allowed to have a build on here because a monk can do it better, when the build was not meant for a monk in the first place.  By treating peoples builds the way you are, you are losing traffic to your website, and until this changes, I will never give positive feedback about PvXWiki ever again.  I was overjoyed when PvXWiki was created.  Now I wouldn't care if it died overnight. - Lord Xivor 22:28, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * The point is this exact identical concept can be done better by a Mo/D than a D/Mo. Post it as a monk build and people can figure out for themselves that it's possible to swap primaries if they don't have the monk - but oh wait, this already has been posted as a monk primary build (about a million times over).  Regardless of whether your build works or not, it's important to keep things clean on here - because having an epic clutter of builds (some of which differ from eachother only slightly) makes it very difficult for people to find anything. - Taeryn 18:52, 16 October 2007 (CEST)

Monk Builds Needed For Vetting?
So basically what you're telling me is this: People need to make a monk builds to get it vetted on PVX? So why is there the E/A and A/E variants of the shadow form sliver armor build? I'd like to argue the E/A is far more effective with its greater fire power and larger energy store. So honestly the inferior A/E build shouldn't be on here. I can farm way more with the E/A far faster than the A/E build. That's what your logic is telling me. It just doesn't work. Seriously. You're not even being nice about it. No tact. Rude. So what your monk can farm better than a dervish? What is this site now? PVXMonkBuilds? Matthew Edmund 00:00, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Read pl0x Misfate  00:13, 16 September 2007 (CEST)

I've seen this build in action when my friend ran it and it works. At the very least this build should be in the "good" catagory. I just wish I had GW:EN now so that I can run it and make a quick buck haha but im stuck with my 130 derv lol. This build is good to use when there's certain places the 130 derv can't take either cause they can't hit (blind,dodge,miss) or the 13 dmg is too much compared to the 8. Airickguitar3917 16:54, 28 September 2007 (CEST)

I have tried a build similar to this, i just brougt along SOJ and Mystic Twister....I love the ability to be a 55 ( or 80hp in this case) with any primary, This build is extremly Viable and should be considered in the good or great category. Furthermore this build can be used in the Underworld as long as you are careful and watch the nightmares. I love this build very much and thank you :) Riff 19:24, 10 October 2007 (CEST)

I agree that this build should not be bashed just because it is a different profession. It should at least reach "good" status since not everybody has a monk they can use, and not everybody has the will to make one. I personally prefer a 55, but that doesn't make me want to bash this just because it is slightly inferior. personally, if I only had a derv, and no monk, I would use this. Just because I am lazy nowadays. Playing for as long as I have drained me of all farming spirit. GL author and I hope this build takes you far. Zeron 14:29, 11 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Well I agree. I placed this build up for testing, but I have a feeling that it will be shot down.  I might as well do my best, however, right? - Lord Xivor 11:45, 16 October 2007 (CEST)

Rated it
I finaly got EotN and used this build lol I took out Shielding hands for Essence bond where there were more ele dmg and it still worked great. This is alot easier to use than my 130 derv in alot of places where I'm constantly blinded or hexed. Got alot of money with this... too bad I used it all on expiencive runes and weapons for my heros lol. A 55 might do it better but the point of this build is for someone like me who doesnt have a monk and it works great. Airickguitar3917 05:32, 17 October 2007 (CEST)

Oh No its a dupe!!!
 * Hmm, Let me try to run that build on my Dervish. Oh wait, I can't!  It is a Monk build! - Lord Xivor 02:40, 18 October 2007 (CEST)

Jesus, this is the longest running shitstorm I've ever seen on a talk page. Just a variant, people. It doesn't matter if it has a different primary, it's just a variant. Same usage, very few unique skills. Requesting merge. --InternetLOL 02:48, 18 October 2007 (CEST)


 * I would like to point out the entire reasoning behind PvX:WELL. We don't need a fire nuker build using only the skills you can get at shing jea monastery. Similarly, we don't need a farming build that works much better if the professions are switched. The argument "this should stay for people who don't have a monk!!!" is like saying "WE NEEDZ DAT FIRE NUKER BUILD FOR DA NOOBS WHO DON'T GOTZ ELITES!!!!". I created a monk for the sole purpose of making a 55. I spent over 100 hours before I a) got all the skills I needed and b) earned enough money to get the armor + runes + weapons + skills. Because the monk works way better. The analogy above comparing this to the E/A farmer and the A/E farmer doesn't work either, because both have their advantages. The ele gets more damage with the earth magic, the assassin gets a longer shadow form. As pointed out above by Teh Uber Pwnzer, the Mo/D has, at most, 1 less regen. And you can't say the energy from mysticism helps, because if your screen isn't filled with little +1's from balthy spirit, you aren't using it right. --[[Image:Wizardboy777_Sig.jpg|19px]]Wizardboy777 (T/C) 05:17, 18 October 2007 (CEST)

I guess we should merge becuase theres too many people rating this build as "what is better" rather than actualy rating this build. Airickguitar3917 05:19, 18 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Well, yeah. If this build sucks co mpar ed to another one that does the exact same thing, which do you think will get a higher rating? If there is a minor difference in quality, it would be fine, but the monk version of this is WAY better. -- Teh Uber Pwnzer '  Unwanted Attention  ' 05:41, 18 October 2007 (CEST)
 * And that is what is the major problem with the policies of this PVXwiki. Instead of voting on the actual build's effectiveness to do what it does, it can ONLY be voted on its effectiveness compared to EVERY other build that can farm or run the same exact area using a similar skill set.  It does not matter if the profession is the same.  Because a monk has divine favor and can use Blessed Aura and can get 2 more damage a hit out of Shield of Judgment, it makes the Monk build slightly better.  Therefore, if a person wants to come to this website to look for builds to farm on their Dervish with, they will NEVER find one.  Why?  Because, since the Monk build has slight effectiveness over this one, they cannot co-exist.  This is a flaw in the policies of PVXwiki.  The same argument as before...someone new to the game wants to find a build to farm an area on his Dervish with.  You think he is ever going to think to look under Monk farming builds to find one?  Never.  I made this build up on my own because I could not find a Dervish build suitable to do what I needed on this website.  I found out AFTER that there was a Monk build that did a similar thing.  But I never found that when searching for a Dervish farming build.  Again...a flaw of this website.  Because of this flaw, I bet many MANY others have been turned away, instead of embracing the builds that could have been made available to them on the professions they need that work perfectly fine for their desired profession. - Lord Xivor 14:41, 18 October 2007 (CEST)
 * No, none at all. Lord Belar 22:44, 18 October 2007 (CEST)
 * This build farms areas that a 130hp Dervish CANNOT farm. That is the reason I even moved to using an SOJ Dervish. - Lord Xivor 02:20, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Because a monk has divine favor and can use Blessed Aura and can get 2 more damage a hit out of Shield of Judgment, it makes the Monk build slightly better. First of all, having your enchantments last an additional 30% longer isn't a 'slight' advantage. Second, monks can get 12 more damage per hit out of SoJ, not 2 - and with the having it last ~30 seconds instead of ~21, the total damage it does goes way up, thus increasing speed. Speed is one of the most important aspects of a farming build. 1 minute faster makes a huge difference when you do the run 100 times. And the Mo/D doesn't have weakness as a vulnerability because it has 9 earth prayers and the breakpoint is 8. One of the two things you suggest farming with this is the corsairs. The corsairs have YAA. Multiple copies. You will be weakened, and then you'll have less regen than the monk, even though you have higher earth prayers.
 * Earth Prayers is set at 13 (not 8). This allows for +4 Mystic Regen per enchantment, which allows for farming in a lot more difficult areas.  Earth Prayers can be lowered and Protection Prayers raised if needed of course, and I do change that at times.  But again, remember, you are comparing apples and oranges.  Dervish =/= Monk - Lord Xivor 02:20, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, for 55 farming, Monk>Dervish. Lord Belar 03:45, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * In this case, I'm not comparing apples and oranges. Both builds are based around exactly the same concept, for exactly the same purpose. An A/R with a bow is still considered to be a ranger. A Me/E fast casting nuker is still a nuker. A W/Mo with 7 monk skills and bonetti's defense still counts as a monk, regardless of the fact that it sucks as a monk. Now: with mystic regen, the breakpoint for 2 -> 3 regen is 8 earth prayers, so if you have 9 earth prayers you'll aways get 3 regen per enchant even if you're weakened. But the breakpoint for 3 -> 4 regen is 13. You have 13 earth prayers. So if you're weakened (which you will be when farming the corsairs) you'll only get 3 regen. The monk has an additional enchantment, and one of the monk's enchants gives you regen. Mo/D = 6-7 enchants * 3 regen + 2 regen = 20-23 regen. D/Mo = 5-6 enchants * 3-4 regen = 15-24 regen. The sixth enchant (SoJ) won't be on you as much, and since you'll need the regen more when the guys with weakness are alive, for all intents and purposes the monk has more regen. In their best scenarios, the derv has 1 more regen. In their worst, the derv has 5 less, and the derv will be at its best for a shorter period of time because it doesn't have blessed aura and has less smiting. This means that for ~9-10 seconds, even without weakness the derv will have 3 less regen, and for ~21 seconds the derv will have 1 more. The rest of the time, they'll be equal. That 9 seconds of 3 less amounts to 54 health not gained, and the 21 seconds amounts to 42 gained. So the derv has a lower average regen, and therefore has no advantage over the monk. QED --[[Image:Wizardboy777_Sig.jpg|19px]]Wizardboy777 (T/C) 04:43, 19 October 2007 (CEST)

Why Rate This Build Bad And Delete It But Not These?
Build:A/E_Gloom_Farmer Build:E/A_Gloom_Farmer

Build:A/E_Solo_Green_Farmer Build:E/A_Solo_Green_Farmer

Build:Mo/any_SoA_55_Monk Build:Mo/any_55hp_Solo_Monk

I mean, if this cannot co-exist with a Mo/D that does the same, then surely an A/E must be deleted if the E/A does the same. And the Mo/D cannot co-exist because there is another Mo/D using the same concepts. And the other Mo/Any's must be deleted as well because they are using the same concepts as a standard SoA and/or 55 monk.

If you are going to rate this build badly and delete it, and even throw out policies against it, do not be hypocrites and instead be consistent in the ENTIRE website. Not just against me. Or, be fair and allow this build, since you already allowed all these others that are very similar to each other. - Lord Xivor 02:32, 19 October 2007 (CEST)


 * It is perfectly fair, as explained above. Your build didn't get vetted, how sad. Try again, post something better, get over it. Lord Belar 03:46, 19 October 2007 (CEST)


 * As I noted above about the E/A's and A/E's: The E/A does more damage and has more energy, thus allowing bigger, more damaging combos. However, the A/E has a much longer shadow form, allowing it to not only run past more groups and reach more areas, but also to have more time to escape if you screw up. With the monks, two of them are designed for very specific purposes: farming colossal scimitars and farming vermin. The other two are essentially guides to the two basic types of 55 monks - they go into more depth about the usage, equipment, skill choices, and farming locations than the invincimonk guide. Your build is bad because the only difference between it and another build is that the professions are switched, and this profession switch makes the build inferior in every way. --[[Image:Wizardboy777_Sig.jpg|19px]]Wizardboy777 (T/C) 04:57, 19 October 2007 (CEST)

Humor
Who thinks this talk page should be saved in the humor category, or at least a guide on what not to do when submitting a build? :) Lord Belar 03:50, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yep. I imagine a good chunk of the reason this build didn't get vetted is because the guy copped a bad attitude when people started questioning the need for it. --71.229.204.25 04:01, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, afraid so. You want to be the first anon with a user subpage? :D Lord Belar 04:23, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * /agree on the humor. Misfate  04:24, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Do I? And how! --71.229.204.25 05:03, 19 October 2007 (CEST)