Archive talk:Team - MQSC Luxon FFF Ritway

This Build is in danger of being removed due to "duplication" of the old build. However, the old build no longer works.
 * Which is why people are supposed to suggest changes on the talk page of the other page.--Grijzeham 19:36, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a completely new build, it doesn't doesn't use the same style of 600 as the other build. Now this build is faster, I believe, than any 600 build.
 * What's the current best time? I've been working on a new version on the other talk page, and the "style" doesnt matter, its a build for speed clearing mount qinkai no need for more then 1 only the most efficient.--Grijzeham 19:50, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see. Well the best time for this build is around 8 mins if done correctly. The Wallow team, with just 2 people, can go extremely fast and smoothly.
 * I have mentioned on 2 other pages but why not here also, I'm fairly certain 1 spirit spammer and 1 ss necro is faster then 2 spirit spammers , builds are on the other 2 pages I don't feel like putting them here too.--Grijzeham 20:39, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have left a post on the other page, about the 600 sin Tank. I saw this buid, and it looks much better then the other (wich is based on the previous build). Wouldn't it be better if you can find something in the middle? This build has a three-man Beach team. Why not mix builds and use the 600 2-man team, wich can be fast (I made some fast runs) and use a runner to kill outcast boss Kayli, like the old build? that migh actually be faster.
 * I've been trying to get 600/smite to work for beach for a while but the time wont get under 9 minutes without the runner taking a very specific build.--Grijzeham 21:12, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1 Spirits and 1 SS might be better, yes. I will try it out and see how it goes. But for the wallow team, two spirits will probably be faster. I'm looking to make changes on the Beach team.
 * Me and a friend tried ss / spirit on the beach the naga made it pretty impossible for us, though we where doing it 2 man , with a healer like your beach team currently has I think it could work though.--Grijzeham 23:43, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried it and I think SS does not work. The Naga archers and ritualists are usually spread out. --UnwokenSpirit 18:58, February 27, 2010 (EST)
 * Lol, summon Rudy Djinn? I prefer Harold Djinn. He Pwns everything.82.73.139.17 10:41, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Deletion
How is this build being considered a duplicate from that other? it has nothing o do with it. Plus, this one works in the current skill settings, while the other, well...
 * Theres only need for 1 MQSC build, the best one , if this one is better then the old one (it is though still needs work) it should replace the old one not have a different page.--Grijzeham 23:38, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

archive the old one, keep this one. -- Star    talk   00:41, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Finished
The Build is now finished. I am open to new ideas though. The Yeti and Wallow teams are the best I've seen. I have not use any other Beach team so I can't really compare. --UnwokenSpirit 21:27, February 27, 2010 (EST)
 * I took a lot of time and care into this guide. Please don't delete it :'( --UnwokenSpirit 3:42, February 28, 2010 (EST)
 * Put a message on the other mqsc build talk, I've already suggested your build should replace the current (very very bad) build but everyone just ignores it.--Grijzeham 14:12, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

BuH
Is BuH used for spirits, PI or Painful bond? of used for spirits, does it work? Zedone2 09:01, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * BuH doesn't work on spirits but it will work with Painful Bond, so instead of 21 damage, the spirits will do an extra 26 damage. As a pair you will have around seven spirits, so an extra 35 damage each hit. That is a bit more damage than an extra spirit but less defense. If you add Ancestor's rage, then you can use it right after Painful Bond and do some nice damage. You can also replace BuH with something like Technobabble.
 * I would also recommend using Rupture Soul if you are good at timing. You can use Rupture Soul on a frontline spirit which is just about to die. Rupture Soul will cause 11 seconds of blindness which will help keep the spirits alive and the spirits won't be knocked down by the wallows as much.--UnwokenSpirit 11:03, March 1, 2010 (EST)
 * Cool, ty for clearing that up, i didn't think it worked on spirits, now i know for sure. Zedone2 02:29, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Arcane Mimicry for a Super Spirit Spammer - SSS
I never liked the Wanderlust builds because of slow recharge and huge energy spending to cast all spirits. I think it works better a combination Ritual Lord / SoS for the wallow team. I came up with an idea that might be even more powerful. The RitLord could use this build (Template: OAWjAOiMJTBTBBlT+gdiVTXMOTA, but 16 Channelling, at least 12 Spawning and the rest on Restoration).

The RitLord would copy SoS from the other rit. Since Ritual Lord boosts your attributes, all 3 spirits from SoS would do more damage than if the SoS rit would cast them. You'll be casting the spirits before the wallows agro, so Boon of Creation works great - It also very efficient for recovering the energy spent with Arcane Mimicry when using SoS. Even if the wallows agro and target the spirits first (which should happen if you do things properly) the usually leave you alone and don't strip Boon. With Ritual Lord, recharge is fast enough for Summon Spirits to be dispensable. The attributes could be 16 Channelling and at least 12 Spawning to benefit from +4 attribute points. You could use the remaining points on Restoration because of Flesh of my Flesh.

The SoS rit on the other hand would be a bit more 'support'. He would never cast SoS because his spirits would be less powerful than the RitLord and should focus on Communing to bring up the total number of spirits hitting wallows. A possible build would be OAWjAyhDJPBhvZ0ezl5cmXsrJA, but 16 Communing, 12 Spawning and the rest on Restoration.

He would copy Ritual Lord and cast all his spirits next. Again I favor Boon of Creation and don't think Summon Spirits is that necessary when benefiting from Ritual Lord. An experienced team would of course swap Flesh with another skill in both builds. Instead of Dissonance one could also consider Rupture Soul. Disenchantment is nice against the Guardians and also adds damage.


 * It sounds like you have not been using the build correctly or you have posted on the wrong build. Read the instructions for the Wallow team first before making suggestions first please.
 * 1. The wallow team is suggested Ritual Lord with low energy costing skills. This build has never had energy management problems. The second build with the wanderlust is for more experienced players who are skilled enough to keep their spirits alive, thus not requiring as much energy or recharge.
 * 2. The only thing you need to kill are the wallows groups, the Guardian groups can be ranged from afar. They will not attack back and they will not heal themselves.
 * 3. Going at this speed Acrane Mimi would be too slow with a 60 second recharge.
 * 4. Boon of Creation is an enchantment. Wallows will remove any enchantments on players within their range, even if the spirits take the aggro, before continuing attacking. With a 45 second recharge and a energy cost of 10, that will slow your team down by quite a bit as well as give a much higher chance of a wipe since you will no longer be able to spam your binding rituals.
 * The current build as it is now is very fast paced, designed to not have to wait for recharge. If done correctly a group of wallows can be killed before your binding rituals even recharge. There doesn't need to be more damage for higher risk.UnwokenSpirit 23:24, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why waste an elite? might as well run Archive:Team - Dual Spirit Spam or Build:Team - 2 Man Spirit Farmer So anyone can run it, Just chuck in mimicry for the optional and Damage pew pew. Zedone2 09:20, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by wasting an elite? I should be asking you that question. Your planning on two Rits in the same place use SoS? I already explained why mimicry doesn't work so well here. You are facing 12-13 wallow groups within 7-8 minutes. You need skills with faster recharge. I also already explained why Boon of Creation can't be used. Disenchantment is useless with wallows because the only way they get enchanted if they have removed yours. Agony is ineffective because the spirits generally focus on one wallow at a time. During that time the other wallows use lifestealing so basically your only really hurting one wallow at a time with just 10 damage.
 * The current build address the lifestealing issue, disenchantment issues, the speed at which the pair is moving, and energy management issues. The important part is balancing all of those. You can't just stack a bunch of random spirits and call it an effective build for wallows. All you really did was just add mimicry, which a waste of a skill slot because your only using it in half of the wallows you face (Keep in mind that Ritual Lord will have to recharge after using it with SoS since SoS is not a binding ritual). With Ritual Lord each spirit is only doing 5-6 more damage (For the cost of 15 energy, 2 second activation and 75 second recharge (15 seconds for recharge after using Ritual Lord on SoS and + 60 seconds for minicry recharge)), might as well bring a Buh or another damage skill.UnwokenSpirit 13:37, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Wasting an elite cuz u said he would never use SoS.... 84.255.207.133 16:14, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

You're not wasting an elite just making it more powerful if the other guy uses it instead of you. Anyway, UnwokenSpirit is probably right about Mimicry, I didn't realise it had such a long recharge. I also understand that if you don't place the spirits within agro range of the Guardian groups and if they do nothing, Disenchantment is not necessary (although it does damage). About Agony (I've seen it working on multiple wallows) and Boon I don't agree and I have my experience telling me they work in this situation. Just my 2 cents.
 * Think about it this way - You have 2 100b wars. one with higher Swordsmanship. It mimicrys the other wars 100b, and the other 100b doesn't use its 100b skill. Get it now? If you take an elite, but dont use it, why take it? yes, your spirits might recharge a bit slower. The builds i suggested aren't concrete. Take out disenchantment and agony if you dont like/need them. Put Rit lord on one rit and mimicry it, so that both the players spirits recharge faster, but still keep the use of SoS. The builds i posted dont do 10 one wallow. It actually owns them. i can solo wallows with one man, yeah, it takes ages and isnt gona be used it this build, but life stealing does not mean you lose. plus, if you hex the right wallow after your spirts start damaging, its gona be a hell of alot more than 10 damage to a Wallow. I also bet you haven't even tried it against them, you dont seem to understand the importance of Elite skills. But if any/rt isn't possible for the wallows, sure, i agree, by all mean take a rit, it was just a suggestion. Zedone2 09:05, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also why, if you think Mimicry is a waste, would you suggest it, Gratz, you just wasted 2 skill slots on 2 bars. L2P Zedone2 09:07, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, I didn't suggest the build posted above with the Mimicry. Also Painful Bond has no affect on Agony because Agony causes health loss not damage so it only does 10 damage to each wallow. But since the wallows use life stealing the 10 damage really has no real no real noticeable effect because the spirits generally only attack one wallow at a time. While one wallow is being attacked, the others life steal so when the spirits get to the last wallow its most likely going to be in full health. UnwokenSpirit 16:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

"the spirits generally only attack one wallow at a time." Haha, i wish. and ok, i didnt suggest the build either, so at least we both understand that. Zedone2 00:33, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

No runner
makes me QQ... i don't have a rit--37er 20:44, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Beach Team
Ok so someone added a Runner? I was thinking about changing the beach team awhile back. Heres the main issue with changing the beach time to the Monkway, the Monkway takes a different root and thus its faster but kills less and forces the Wallow Team to kill off an extra group or two. Any new suggestions for the beach team. Also maybe the Runner should be removed because it has no place in this build yet, no idea why it was added. 18:05, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

popularity
none, its never used

Meta Tag
This really isn't part of the current meta (at least that I've seen), perhaps consider removing the tag?75.166.131.3 00:32, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Archiving
(This is UnwokenSpirit btw, cant get to login for some reason atm) Its not being used but the Yeti Team and Wallows are much better than the Monkway since it takes advantage of the failhard AI. Like I wrote a while back, just replace the beach team with the monkway beachteam. Its not any slower, its actually safer to use, less change of team whips. I just needs a bit of cleaning after that monster skills update. 201.1.232.126 23:39, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * No one ever uses this, and even if it's just as fast, you'd be hard pressed to get people to change. IMO, just archive it. -- Jai . -  22:54, September 6 2010 (UTC) 22:54, September 6, 2010 (UTC)