User talk:Konschu/Sandbox/FoW Manly Spike 2011

This...isnt very good. The only way to really make the standard manlyway posted on this wiki faster without resorting to a third terra is to drop a war for a rit to clear out most of forest. With that change, i could probably put together a team to do a late 13/early 14min run. SS is pretty pointless on the mop and youd be much better off with ap. Life Guardian 01:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I changed the mop ^^ & don't you think the terra roles + the eoe shouter, and therefore putting eoe on the ua, is better then the original builds? & yes I could put in a rit to clear the forest instead of a 100b, but these days you're already lucky if one of your 2 100b's doesnt fail, so that doesnt seems me a very good idea.. ^^ ,- Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 03:32, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you have conflicting ideas in the builds. I think youre trying to keep it pug friendly, while at the same time putting windborne on the t2(implying that the t2 will finish before a r/a t1....) and requiring your t1 to pop pcons. There isnt any condition removal, and summon spirits with just sos is kind of questionable. I dont really see why youd complicate the ua role just for fall back for griffs, considering that by the time youre at that point speed doesnt really matter(in a pug at least). idk...maybe im biased by my own personal results with the standard bars, but i dont see any reason why these bars would fare any better for casual use. Life Guardian 08:47, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that the idea that you've to know the cave "glitch" is more unpugfriendly then windborne ^^ & yes but even pugs can pop pcons imo.. You only need condition removal for cripple and blind on the wars imo, and with iau/ctt that isnt necessary anymore..(?) & first I changed summon for fh, but when you told me mop>ss I put in fh on the mop again. In the old uw twwtway we also ran eoe on the ua, and that wasnt rly hard imo ^^ and the general idea about the shouts was ctt actually, and since you can also use fall back to speedup the griffs I decided to put them on the rit.. And I made the build with the idea to speedup general pug runs, not 13/4 record runs ^^ Most pugs do it just within the 30 min, while I think with these bars you can easily get 20min.. ,- Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 11:52, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * You would be hard pressed to get a 20 minute fow regardless of bars. Pugs are that bad. I dont really feel like debating this atm so ill drop it until i feel like it. Question though, to which cave glitch are you referring to? There are quite a few lol. Life Guardian 12:07, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * If You want to have T2 finish faster I'd say T1 should kill cavewolf. If your R/A runs à braver bar (hos over dark escape and fh over mental block it's really easy as long as he camps correct shield sets. FH speeds up things alot, maybe if you have low self you can take aos instead. Most caveglitches are known to pugs by the way, I'm more worried bout removing defenses from the main team as it fails/does 45 min runs too often already. Falrach 18:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Theres no point using an R/A...pvx lists the most pug friendly builds for manly way. Pugs are too cheap/poor to be spending money on pcons for every single run, and if you're good enough to afford pcons/use an R/A, you already know some good people and just run 3 terras or a different build anyway... I myself dont run any pcons on pug runs any more mainly because the rest of the pugs are slow anyway, so it doesnt matter how much you speed yourself up when pugs still take ~12 minutes to do forge and take quest, and the T2 doesnt send mage because he isnt smart enough to send before he does second quest, I run a mesway build currently being modified still, and we use 3 terras (lightning forest = t3, as Life said). Just take a regular T1 if you expect it to be on pvx and actually used by pugs. Also, the T2 can also take DS and Dash(dark escape if you are bad) instead of iau and windborn. also, if you're trying to do something meta changing, Infiltrator's insigs say /hi. 86.146.104.40 19:15, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Basically the only change you made to the main team is to take eoe off the spirit spammer and put it on the monk, so that the rt can make the griffons run faster, after seeing this i ask myself whether you thought about this change at all.. If the team is fast enough for fallback to make a difference then i think they can manage to do griffon quests without a ua, which means you can put fallback on the ua and keep eoe on the rt, where it can easily be placed and moved. I garuntee a single character with no summon won't be able to get eoe up in range of every single spike. People already run r/a terras without needing windborne at all, it really doesnt take long to do cave and mage, windborne is an unnecessary complication. If you really want to speed up fow replace a 100b with a t3 or a rit for forest, for pugs pvx bars are as good as they can be. Paranon15 19:38, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


 * If you want to improve on pug pvx bars you have to have a reason. Is it for a more exp team? Or a safer team. This looks like it's for a more exp team, which tbh there aren't any that you will find pugging unless it's pugs from some of the SC allies. If you want to make a safer bar take out AP from the necro for one and put in a decent elite skill. For a faster main team put eoe on the rit and let the monk take the para skills. Then you can take splinter to finish off the griffs groups and the monk holds the griffs. Pvx bars for terras is /lol. Some people run different builds at the same speed as others use the pvx builds. It's preference to the exp of the terra. If there is an RA split then there is coordination between the terras. As said in all of the above pug bars are fine for manly way. admitidly there should be a change to mesmer spike. It's cleaner and has more speed potential. It is probably pugable if pvx'd /lol. Considering the state of pug teams. 100b's are really bad. Trying to make a shift to a more experienced team build is very silly.--Nataliexx 19:58, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * @Life with cave glitch I just mean hiding in the wall so you dont get hit by rupts & @Falrach mental for fh is ok but I prefer to keep dark escape>hos because I dont have to waste cc on my ranger then =P & I dont rly remove defenses from the main team imo. & I with puggable I mean the pugs that can read skill descriptions and not the retarded pugs that cant even buy pcons n.n & yes I know how to speedup runs when you play with good ppl ^^ but I just wanted to make the reg build faster with small things + the terra roles & @Para casting eoe isnt that hard lol & Im too lazy to answer the rest for now ,- Konschu  [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 21:39, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * there isn't really a good reason to put para skills on the rt and eoe on the monk, swap it over and make the monk do griffons, also ua being the only res on the team sucks.. Btw, BuH on the r/a is pretty pointless cus whirling kills everything in ~5seconds anyway. Paranon15 22:43, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Honestly, if we really wanted to make the most pugfriendly bars, it would be either dwg or manly. Mesmer spike actually kind of relies on some semblance of coordination, while the other two really dont. A dwg rit can solospike all mobs that do not consist of abyssals/shadow rangers. Manly is all individual parts of the spike, and they dont really have to all happen at once for a successful spike. The bars listed here are unnecessarily convoluted, and the standard pvx ones are far superior. I dont see any reason to replace ap with any other elite. There is no available elite that is more efficient in this build than ap(trust me, ive screwed around with a lot of them). I would have to agree that the terra bars here are very basic, but i honestly wouldnt trust pugs to run anything else. Life Guardian 03:57, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Another note on the change you made to the R/A, no HoS and no Mblock might give some probs, and why wouldn't you use a cupcake when your using CC, eggs and other shit already? Falrach 10:15, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * @Para when you let the ua do the griffs you shouldnt even have to try it with pugs =P & there're rez scrolls ^^ but yeah most pug doesnt even know what that is =P & about buh you're right. & @Life so in the end the best improvement for not bad pug parties would be: T1-3,MT,3xDwG,UA (with EoE^^)? & @Falrach I put out buh for fh now, that way I kept mb (= & Im not rich + my sweet title isnt maxed on my main (sin) yet so I try to pop most sweets on him =P but in uw I do use cc on my ranger, but since in fow that isnt rly necessary with dark escape I prefer to keep that1 (,- Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 13:42, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

That ranger bar
is v ugly imho. Falrach 19:24, 23 October 2011 (UTC)