Archive talk:D/any General PvE Avatar

General Discussion
Heh does anyone like my variant?--NanoMan  (talk • contribs) 08:55, 20 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Build:D/any Mel Dervish (primer follow-up) Shireen 09:11, 20 May 2007 (CEST)

This is such a waste of an elite, even the primer is better. AoM with no skills to exploit it = lose. Tycn 12:53, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm unfavouring this. RIGHT NOW. This so badly sucks, I have a wild blow/wearying strike AoM derv for PvE and it would own this without using any skills... LOL x/ '~\^/~' Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)(contributions) 12:57, 20 May 2007 (CEST)


 * I believe Rapta changed this build around a lot after it was favored. Perhaps we should look at the original version, and see if that's why this build was favored... it's here. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 15:02, 20 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Agreed, old version is better (not much though). Delete please, don't see how the heck this got through. '~\^/~' Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)(contributions) 15:20, 20 May 2007 (CEST)


 * So this is where it went! I was wondering where did this build get lost into. Old version was definatelly better although it could still use some touching up. It's still a build that is good basis for many good variants when you get better skills later ingame and so on. Such as Mystic Regeneration and other avatars and with a cheaper energy cost avatas like Avatar of Balthazar and Avatar of Dwayna and maybe even a zealous scythe, Chilling Victory becomes a great option instead of Mystic Sweep. Anyway I agree about deleting this one, needs rewriting. -Mooo 15:53, 20 May 2007 (CEST)

The skills are okay however PvE + avatar = Eternal aura. 2 Major runes are a waste. Conviction seems fairly pointless. Avatar of melandru is hard to take down in PvE, if you just keep it up with eternal you just need a descent monk and you 'll be fine. BadByBirth 16:52, 23 September 2007 (CEST)

Delete Tag
You should ask an admin to check the build before slapping a delete tag on this. It is a favored build according to this history that came over from wiki. Delete tag removed. Any admins want to make a ruling on this? Shireen 04:43, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Imma slap an tag on it.  ‽  -(єronħ)   no   u  04:45, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

Sure, I can give a ruling here although I by no means speak for the Admins as a group. There is plenty of precedent for builds on GuildWiki going from favored to unfavored for whatever reason. Just because a build becomes favored doesn't mean that it then becomes proof against being changed to unfavored, or, if need be, deleted. We can all agree that GuildWiki's vetting system wasn't stellar, and, as previously mentioned, I am sure we are all aware of numerous occasions on which a bad builds was favored. Therefore, it would be my opinion that the deletion tag should remain since it may in fact simply be a bad build. All that changes is that we need to be a little more cautious about actually deleting the build since the fact that it was vetted may indicate that it has some merit. Otherwise though, that is still no reason not to allow the community to rule in favor of deleting a build if they so choose. Consensus can always change and I see no conflict here. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  04:49, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Assuming no one objects to this line of reasoning, I would say that my judgment (as an Admin this time) would be that the Administrative Review Tag be removed (both because I have rendered a judgment and because I feel there was no conflict to being with), and that the deletion tag be put back onto the build so that the community can decide the validity of such a tag (obviously with a final decision being made by an Admin. [[Image:DE Sig Test 2.jpg|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  04:51, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * I have no problems with that, though someone may want to speak to the original delete tag author about his way of saying the build was bad. Shireen 04:54, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Sounds good, I like the idea of obliterating the old policy... ‽  -(єronħ)   no   u  04:54, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Hmmmm... saying it sucks wasn't very politic, but, it wasn't some kind of policy violation either. People are free to say whatever they like about a build as long as it isn't an attack on the author himself/herself.  Now, I guess there could be a question of whether saying a build sucks is a poor reflection on the author and thus an attack... but, I don't know I would go as far as to say that.  If it gets out of hand, I can always do something about it, but, for now, I don't see it as a real issue.  [[Image:DE Sig Test 2.jpg|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  04:59, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

Whats the plan Rapta? Shireen 05:37, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

(edit conflict) Not sure what crack I was smoking when I re-did the attack skills, but VS+CV are back. The original was a laughable build, really. Come on, a Dervish using Deep Wound in PvE? A conditional AL boost when you have Conviction to choose from? This is the standard, cookie-cutter PvE AoM build. Also, Zealous + Attack Spam is win. Rapta 05:40, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Whatever you were on, was obviously potent. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 05:43, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * The synergy is also there (although keep in mind that synergy only exists if it's necessary and doesn't actually hinder a build). AoM isn't enough to make Chilling Victory and Victorious Sweep worth using on max health targets in later areas of PvE (ie, torment demons). That's why you have Vital Boon to give you a further boost, while being a cover ench for Zealous in case there's hex removal. Rapta 05:42, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * zomg, enough Edit Conflicts Rapta >.>. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 05:43, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

Yes, Wearying Strike should be included; nothing matches it in damage (including the 150 or so "damage" inflicted via deep wound, naturally; deep wound is a surefire way to kill torment demons before they get their 5-second shout finished). Also, I was thinking D/Mo with draw condi as a variant; with the energy management from zealous, you can afford to make a fat condi stack disappear. Dervishes are overpowered, we all know that; but settling for 50 damage attacks when you can get 100+ and spammable deep wound is a waste. PW:WELL, remember? - Auron 11:49, 21 May 2007 (CEST)


 * Using Wearying Strike at the end when a monster is already pretty much dead, isn't worth losing the brunt damage given to you by simply using Chilling Victory (deals AoE damage as well to remaining targets), which would deal a chunk of damage enough to kill the monster demon regardless. And Draw is closing on useless in PvE for a frontline attacker in most cases. Plus, health boosts in PvE are not as useful compared to Armor boosts - that which Conviction provides. I'm all for keeping PvE builds apart from PvP builds when it comes to Dervs. Plus, when you have 5+ other people targetting the mob as well, it won't be much of a difference anyways. Victorious Sweep is excellent for its spammability. But however, IAS is not as important in terms of PvE, because it isn't needed as in PvP to provide the "spike" effect - it doesn't matter when you're about as fragile as an Assassin except without your 75% blocking which most Assassins have nowadays. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 06:17, 22 May 2007 (CEST)

The aforementioned D/Mo already exists. Tycn 12:17, 21 May 2007 (CEST)
 * Hm... delete the d/mo, add it as a variant to this one... and add heart of fury and wearying strike to this as core. That would be optimal. - Auron 12:21, 21 May 2007 (CEST)

Please, no convic. Make it optional or add MR. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 00:53, 22 May 2007 (CEST)

I smell a revert war starting... Shireen 02:06, 22 May 2007 (CEST)

zomg, nano stop changing the build! I don't want to violate RV1, but I will contact an admin. My last edit was not a RV, merely restoration. This will be my first and final RV. Readem (talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 02:21, 22 May 2007 (CEST)

I've only changed it once to it's old version the current version sucks and I think we should talk about it first. If you want a build that doesn't work and caused this whole crazy problem fine keep it up. Whatever. Edit: I also changed it to give a varient but that was it. I never changed the real build.<font face="dauphin" color="green">NanoMan  (talk • contribs) 02:34, 22 May 2007 (CEST)

Tested?
This and another 2 builds( and where moved to tested,the former dosen't even have a discussion. Vandalism?-Leader of Armys 14:39, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
 * They were vetted on GuildWiki. --NYC Elite 13:26, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

Checked and Reviewed
For Viability. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 13:16, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * It went through? Yay. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 13:35, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * sadly for you readem doesntmake the final descision ^_^ - <font color="Black">Skakid9090 13:36, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Not saying its "Great" per say, but it the only AoM Derv PvE Build we have, and it's not that bad. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 14:18, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

This build is great, i haven't died yet while using it unless im the last gu in the party. Everyone who has a pve derv should really use this build. ~Scarymonsterclan

I might be missing something but...
Why don't we go for the 15 Mysticism breakpoint? --NYC Elite 13:44, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Yeah I say we drop earth to 3+1 and do that, 3 seconds of coviction missing is nothing. - <font color="Black">Skakid9090 13:48, 24 June 2007 (EDT)
 * And Conviction doesn't even go for the regen breakpoint at 8 Earth (not that it matters, as you'll be enchanted pretty much constantly). --NYC Elite 13:51, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

I might be missing something also but...
Why is Zealous Renewal in there and not Eternal Aura? Zealous Renewal barely pays for itself and you need an IAS. Craziinick 08:11, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Do you know how to use it? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:25, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I fail to see what you mean 'Do you know how to use it?' Zealous Renewal will barely pay for itself in pve, i've tested it, and for me, it doesn't help at all. Craziinick 21:18, 1 August 2007 (CEST)

Zealous renwal; pays for itself using the dervish scythe ability to hit foe and adjacent. attack mobs and you can easily get up to +20nrgHowe304 11:27, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Mystic Sweep?
I'm pretty sure that Eremite's Sweep should replace this. 1 enchantment over a possible 3 adjacent enemies? Yeah.--Fallen 03:51, 26 September 2007 (CEST)

Serpent's Quickness
"when using for Pvp you should always bring serpents quickness insted of etarnal aura." - Serpent's Quickness dosent affect Avatar of Melandru - --Frozenhell 22:13, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Then dont be lazy and delete it yourself :D. This is a wiki, anyone can edit any page they want.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 00:04, 2 October 2007 (CEST)

Runes
2 majors, you've got to be kidding. Put a minor on scythe mastery. And wouldn't Great Dwarf Armor (as a variant) be better than conviction? --203.129.58.70 02:16, 5 October 2007 (CEST)

i dont really like this build -
1., it says good self healing. i dont think so at all. the only self healing is victorious sweep so this build will not stand much against much enemys.

2. the runes are a little bit wierd.. personaly i will not use those runes and use my personal runes for my personal build (wich is much more damage and much more self heal. i will NOT put it in PvX wiki since i dont want peoples to steal it ^_^ ).

3. this build dont do much dmg. and what the hell? mystic sweep with only one enchantment? u gotta be kidding me. even eremites is better here... &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.130.202.245 (contribs) 03:54, 5 October 2007.
 * What are you talking about? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:43, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

Confusion
I think there is some confusion with this article. There is talk of skills not included in the skill bar (ie: Mystic Vigor, Vital Boon and Twin Moon Sweep). Rapta, are you able to clear this up? Confusion aside, I think the concept of this build is great.--Dazz 00:56, 9 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Is it better now? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:59, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

Thanks for that.--Dazz 01:14, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

E-Management
No offense, but this build has horrible E-management. Even with full Radiant armor and an attunement it still has bad energy gain. Zealous Renewal is hardly enough to allow you to spam all the attack skills. Consider it says for equipment to have "a mix of Radiant and Survivor's Insignias," I can't see actually running this build to the point. --Guild of Deals 18:32, 8 November 2007 (CET)
 * The trick is to not spam attack skills mindlessly. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 05:57, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Still not seeing it. If you have say 39 energy, which is more than is advised in the guide, 25 goes to the form, 10 renewal and 5 to conviction, so we've already emptied our energy bar. By the time we hit the enemy we'll probably got back up to 10; Wearying, Mystic/Eremites, we're back to rock bottom again, now at this stage we have to:
 * A) Find enough energy to recast Renewal, Conviction and probably Eternal Aura, that's 25 gone
 * B) Keep the enemy crippled with wearying, 5 energy 10ish seconds
 * C) Make sure we have 25 energy spare to renew the form just as it ends.


 * Maybe it can be done, but it's reallly reallly tight enegry management, 1 interupt in the wrong place, one unforeseen hex, one misclick and you're gonna have to do without something. And all this for an extra 100 health an the ability to spam deep wound. --85.62.18.3 17:00, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I always use this build, no nrg problems, i have 32 nrg and a zealous scythe which gives alows me to precast AoM then zealous renewal with 5-7 nrg before battle. thx to zealous if i attack mobs i can almost spam attack skills and as soon as Zealous renwal recharge back to 25. for me NO nrg managment problems. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Howe304 (contribs) 12:29, 28 January 2008.
 * We have a winner! &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:53, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Wouldn't it be good for e-management to use attack skills like Lyssa's Strike, and other attack skills that give you energy? --Arc77 14:59, 5 May 2009 (EST)
 * IMO it is not only good but necessary for all avatars other than Lyssa. Eternal Aura is to used to maintain avatar, but to include it in the bar and not do some spike with spammable damages is not fully utilizing the skill.  Since this build doesn't take any +armor or self-heal spells I assume it is not for taking purpose, either.  Scan and AoHM is nice if for supporting the group.  Again, AoHM's end effect can't be controlled since there's no self-enchantment strip skills on the bar.  In the end I feel this build's damage output is a bit haphazard as its damage output, energy and life restorage depends on Mystcism possibily untiming end of enchants. --Kgptzac 04:30, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Glyph of Lesser Energy?
Would it be worth adding glyph of lesser energy? It could make AoM cost 15 energy w/ glyph. This could go into the open spot or replace zealous renewal. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Punisher (contribs) 18:25, 20 December 2007.


 * Glyph works on spells, not forms or attacks. There's only 1 spell on this bar.--[[image:Holiday_viy_sig.jpg‎|19px]]<font color="green" face="arial bold">Victory <font color="red" face="arial bold">is <font color="green" face="arial bold">Santas 17:26, 20 December 2007 (EST)

Sorry
Im gonna have to agree with a few people here & say this build sucks. its too 'clanky' for its own good. e-management suck - it doesnt have proper healing & your usually too low on energy to spam that health regen attack enough to keep you alive. so about the comment earlier about spamming attacks mindlessly do you see the point im trying to make? obviously the team has a monk but even 2 healers & a prot monk cant save this build if it was faced with a rather drawn out fight - somthing ive experienced loads against raptors in GWEN. so the grim reality is you can fight but you wont get far on your own without somebody there thats dedicated to more or less healing only you.

it feels like the creator has rushed this build & tried to cram as many skills onto his skillbar then running out of space & leaving it as it is.....unfinished. im taking this build off myself & my heros. sorry but this build just cant tank it. 62.56.95.238 11:14, 7 January 2008 (EST)
 * oh my not again. -- Shadow sin  11:47, 7 January 2008 (EST)
 * Fail less. - Rawrawr  11:49, 7 January 2008 (EST)

meditation.
i use something with like this with meditation for a heal and so i can end zealous early for more energy.Simpson man 15:20, 15 February 2008 (EST)
 * That would actually give you LESS energy. Zealous gives you more based on the number of attacks you make, so unless you are able to end it just before it expires, you might be gaining less in the long run. 66.32.176.79 15:25, 15 February 2008 (EST)

maybe but no one said that wasn't a easy thing to do.Simpson man 15:31, 15 February 2008 (EST)

balthazar's aura
you really should replace conviction with balthazar's aura and funnel the points int o smiting then you would have crazy close range AoE.Monk ey warrior 12:40, 18 February 2008 (EST)


 * No.. Just... No -- Samz0r 16:15, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

Use Superiour
usa a superiour on mystisysm and have minor in sycthe mastery with mystisysm headgear and you will basically always be in form so +100 health overrides the -75.Monk ey warrior 12:43, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * There isn't even a point in running that major as it is, less a sup. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 13:41, 18 February 2008 (EST)

IAS
The bar may seem pretty tight as it is, and energy management may also become a problem at times, but even just Heart of Fury would benefit this build. Heart of Fury's cost is almost half payed for when it ends (due to Mysticism), and the IAS will both increase your DPS and Energy gain from Zealous Renewal (and a Zealous Scythe, which I suggest you bring), it's just a matter of timing. If it were up to me, I'd trash most offensive Dervish builds because in PvE, the base damage from the scythe becomes less and less effective as you progress through the game (due to high Armor levels). And unless you bring something like a Conjure Element, I find that Sins are better with scythes than Dervishes (higher Critical Hit Rate, better energy management, Critical Defenses, Critical Agility, Way of the Master, Assassin's Remedy...)When it comes down to just using the scythe, Dervishes don't really have anything over playing an Assassin and Dervishes have great defenses, but few actually use them for PvE General/Heroes. Heart of Fury (or another suitable IAS) would definitely bring this build closer to that of an A/D, but I would still rather take an Assassin with a Scythe. -Mike 19:34, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Not everybody has a sin, and MS/DB is the best raw armor ignoring DPS in the game so they're not really comparable. This is nice for condition heavy areas, and well as Splinter Weapon. I'd take a sin any day too, but not everyone has a sin (and there's a lot of people who are just plain shit at it). &mdash;  Skakid  19:37, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Good thing I deleted my Dervish to make room for my Assassin.  ɟoʇuɐʌ  ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 19:43, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
 * ANet needs money too. Pay for extra slots. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:27, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

etrnal arua
its worth putting it in the main bar becuase everyone uses it,<font color="Black">Howe304 10:49, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Not Heroes. -Mike 12:31, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

e-management???
Why not make use of attacker's insight(AI)? On top of that, why not add in Lyssa's Assault(LA)? Thats a free attack skill + energy(doesnt even have to hit to return energy). Not to mention mysticism return when it ends, if we're talking a form build (attacker's insight + lyssa's assault is so effective at energy return, I can drop most of my mysticism for something else (like wind prayers), and still manage energy well). AI reduces energy costs of 2 attack skills by 9 at 4 wind prayers At 12 scythe/12 myst/3 wind derv with runes can match that easily enough (just watch out for weakness, which you should ALWAYS as a dervish).At 8s recharge for LA and 15s recharge for AI, this is a faster and more available return of energy than zealous renewal ever was. --136.165.3.75 20:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why would you waste two skills slots for e-management went you could use one. Zealous Renewal + mysticism should be enough to manage your energy fine.  20:49, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * if all else fails...ZEALOUS MOD.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 21:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Zealeous Renewal
That skill is a waste of a skill slot, mysticism and Zeal scythe should cover your energy management need just fine, that skill slot should be used with Wearying Strike in case of AoD, SY! or Chilling Victory. --Anonimous. D: 10:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WTB Rephrase. You said ZRenewal is bad, but I'm not sure what the last half of that was meant to say. o_O ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  16:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Most people dont like to run a zealous scythe, thus Zealous Renewal is a good passive energy management skill.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 17:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically, better stuff can go into that skill slot. --Anonimous. D: 17:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They should and you dont have to camp one weapon set. --Anonimous. D: 17:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Change it if you want, tbh. I've never rolled a PvE derv myself because I find them to be mostly useless as human characters. (Critscythe gg). ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

PvE Hero Tag
Add variants to accommodate for hero usage or remove hero tag. Saul Lachance 19:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My bad, I can see another's in testing atm, though merging the two would be better than a seperate build. Saul Lachance 20:01, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Double my bad, didn't sign *Sigh* Saul Lachance 20:01, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Bottom line good build or bad build that just got trhough the vetting system
So is it a good build or a bad build or do you just think each avatar should have its own unique build.
 * Why would you ask that IP when there's a whole page above you? And all the avatar builds do fine with this setup.-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 05:15, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Good?
I fail to see how it merits a Good rating. Scythes deserve the rating, not the actual build. 3 spammable attacks + random elite + eternal aura = good build? <font face="Verdana" color="maroon" size="1">15:20, 3 September 2009

Tbh.
Old votes are old i suggest that some admin cleans them up? <font color="Black" face="Comic Sans" size="3">Tyrael  <font color="Red"> Undead!  19:35, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you think this build needs a vote wipe, explain why you think it does on the AN. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">19:58, 8 January 2010
 * No no bad title i guess, I dont want it to be welled, I'm just saying that a lot of votes are about the old build (which was the Melandru build) so they need to be removed <font color="Black" face="Comic Sans" size="3">Tyrael [[Image:Life Sheath.jpg|19px]] <font color="Red"> Undead!  20:36, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed most of the votes I could find that had any mention of AoM. Let me know if I missed one, but again...in the future, add this to the noticeboard instead of the talk page. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:49, 8 January 2010
 * It's not that this would do worse than it is right now.--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown"> "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 04:47, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Just run AoG tbh. AoM can be good with Wearying Strike, but Wounding Strike or Reaper's Sweep is probably more effective. AoG is the best of all the Avatars, and the others aren't worth running at all, tbh. ــѕт. мıкε  00:18, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * How did this land back in great. o.o; Cuilan 02:55, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Through the PvX vetting system, it has reached an overall rating in the range from 4.75 to 5.0 and thus qualifies for the highest category of working builds: Great. --[[File:Samsig.png]] 03:10, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * That part is pretty clear. Cuilan 18:56, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

What if ...?
What if you just put wounding strike instead of the avatar form in the build..? I think even in this build WS > any avatar in general. Certain situations (many antimeleehexes/conditions/enchantments) excluded, as those are rare in my opinion.82.73.136.207 13:16, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * The build will still suck. Cuilan 16:10, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Vote wipe needed
Those ratings are bad. Many are old or no longer relevant to the page. Others are either dumb or lacking any sort of reasoning at all. Cuilan 18:10, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Avatars Suck
Why the hell would you run one anymore when you have Wounding Strike and Zealous Vow to choose from? There's no way that avatars can compete with nowday's derv builds, simple as that. -- Jai' s Crappy Christmas Sig...  -  02:29, December 25 2010 (UTC)
 * it's not like it makes a big difference what elite you choose, your damage comes from aohm and spamming attacks.--Christmas sig.jpg talk  02:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't get damage from spamming if you don't have the energy to, too busy casting, or good enough attack skills/buffs compared to other builds. Cuilan 23:32, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * wut--Christmas sig.jpg talk  03:39, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The only avatars worth shit are Melandru and Lyssa. Mel's is expensive as hell and means you either need massive amounts of energy management to get your energy back, or you'll be sitting at 0 the whole fight. Lyssa's is decent, especially with HM not doubling casting speed anymore, true. But there's no point at all running any other the others. Balth is nothing but an armor buff, Grenth is essentially a Conjure Frost/Flame etc., Dwayna is doing what your monk should be doing. So either change the build to Lyssa only, or archive. -- Jai . -  04:21, January 13 2011 (UTC)