User:Dont Tell Dave/FoW Spiker Setup Comparions

=Manly Spike=


 * 2x/100b or / VoS
 * 1x/MoP
 * 1x/EoE
 * 1x/UA

Advantages

 * Simple to use.
 * Diverse professions, allows access for more people.
 * Relatively easy cleanup with EVAS+FH!+AP combo on necro, SoS and Wars/Dervs.
 * 2 hard resses.
 * Large amount of damage from spike.

Disadvantages

 * Overkill on spike damage, more than is necessary, means wasted slots.
 * Spike damage is adjacent range, requires reasonably tight balls or there will be cleanup.
 * Little-no utility, no blind, interrupts etc, can make cleanup more difficult, especially if necro is not using skills correctly.
 * Reducing team to T3spike means compromising either: 1monk, 1 spiker, or necro. Bar compression becomes difficult and people need to be more competant at spiking, T4 way becomes even more difficult to compress.

=Mes Spike=


 * / Ineptitude
 * / Esurge
 * / Keystone
 * / SoS

Advantages

 * Spikes have larger range, nearby range allows for some room of error on both calls and MT balls due to EoE.
 * Blind allows for easy cleanup, melee and rangers will be blinded if they survive the spike, meaning team take minimal damage.
 * Arcane Conundrum and Cry of Pain combo (as well as Keystone)allows for easy interrupts, making cleanup easier.
 * Ritualist solo's ToC, allows mesmer spikers to continue to battlefield spike, saving a small (but beneficial) period of time.
 * Deep Freeze allows for some mistakes due to it being a strong snare, can potentially save and remedy a "failed" spike.
 * Reasonably simple to use.
 * Can be done with only two terras by putting monk in place of T3.
 * MT has hard res.
 * Can clear without MT if Esurge leads with Deep Freeze (and spikers are experienced).

Disadvantages

 * Only mesmers, means a lack of accessibility for other professions.
 * Unflexible, removing one spiker would make the spikes very iffy, meaning it is inferior for T4way.
 * Should the T3 die, clearing forest with MT requires more competent play, Keystone can also get very low on energy.
 * Should the me/rt die, either the MT needs to res or a res scroll needs to be popped.
 * Arguably weaker cleanup than Manly Spike (if mobs are not blinded or casting is not slowed mesmers can drop fast).

=DwG Spike=

or
 * 2x/ DwG
 * 1x/ EoE DwG
 * 1x/ DwG

Advantages

 * Relatively strong spike
 * Very flexible composition, can be used for T3,4,5 and 6way due to bar compression.
 * Survivability from Unseen Fury and Shroud.
 * 1 Rit (or even both) can bring Res.
 * If rt/r EoE on spiker, allowing for a Forest ranger or extra terra.
 * Very easy to offdamage.
 * Decent cleanup with DwG spam

Disadvantages

 * Health Buffs and DwG spiker bar nerfs made the bars less forgiving.
 * Spikers must be competent or spikes will fall through.
 * Only Ritualists, so less accessible.
 * Difficult for Pug parties to use due to the difficulty of roles.
 * Main Tank still needs to ball relatively well, large amounts of cleanup can be difficult to handle.

=DwG + Derv Spike=


 * 1x/ EoE DwG
 * 1x/Any VoS Spiker

Advantages

 * Dervish is a more mobile spike, whilst still providing the same amount damage as DwG.
 * Well Compressed spike,Can be used just as a pair and successfully spike in t3,4,5 and 6way.
 * Very strong offdamage from Snow Storm and Spirit Rift/DwG
 * Small amounts of Cleanup is relatively easy due to Devishes being OP and DwG is strong.
 * EoE for spikes.
 * Superior to 2 dervishes due to EoE and the ease of offdamaging as a ritualist,whist still getting the strength of Dervish spikers.

Disadvantages

 * Record bars, require very experienced spikers and Balls.
 * Only uses 2 professions.
 * Nigh-impossible for pugs due to difficulty spiking.
 * Spikes are liable to fall through.
 * Cleanup can become difficult if there are too many foes up
 * No hard res or survivability.
 * Unforgiving spike, even compared to 2x Rits, due to no blind or shroud.

=Comparisons= This section will compare each of the spike setups against each other for particular terra setups, and an "overall" section (where applicable). DwG Spike and DwG Spike with one Dervish will only be compared with T4way (and record way) because they are not designed for T2 or T3way.

Manlyway vs. Mesway

 * T2way (assuming a monk is brought over the T3 for Mesway): Manlyspike is able to clean up skeletal groups with ease (even full groups), and has more concentrated damage, Manlyway wins for cleanup. Mesway has the advantage of range on the spike, this means that there is less likely to be any cleanup, as well as very strong utility, meaning that if a few foes are left over they can be dealt with very swiftly. Cleanup advantages do not matter if there is no real cleanup to begin with. Forest becomes a problem for mesway if the Keystone spams and runs out of energy, though the team is just as quick as Manlyway at spikes, and can simply dispatch of the spirits to remove any problems. The only loss of speed is worms, which can be a pain, but with Keystone they arent too bad (cry of pain should rupt their prep during spike). It's fair to say that this comes out somewhat even in both speed and effectiveness, possibly leaning more in favour of mesway due to the strong spike range and less downtime between spikes. Mesway also has the benefit of surviving a bad spike with the help of Deep Freeze and other utility.


 * T3way: Manlyway's main problem here is compressing bars, If a monk is removed they lose a hard res and some sustain. If a necro is removed the MT must go a/n and time is lost in forge and battlefield. If one spiker is dropped the team need to be more competent all around. Mesway does not have this problem as it was designed for T3way. It's bar compression is superior to that of Manlyway's due to the strong, long range spikes and the utility it packs. There is also going to be little-no cleanup with mesway compared to manlyway, meaning manlyway again loses some of its benefits. Mesway wins this one mostly because it loses no time in forge or anywhere else, gains time from Solo ToC and forest being easy (because mesmers dont have to clean anything) and spikes being more reliable.


 * T4way: Manlyway wins hands down vs. Mesway for T4way. Mesway is not designed for T4way, and removing one mesmer (keystone) makes the spike VERY close, even with eoe. Only the most reliable of spikers would be able to do it. Whereas with one Derv (or war) and a necro spiker (or A/N MT and 2 Dervishes/Wars), Manlyway is still quite easy to pull off in T4way. Manlyway is better for T4way.


 * Overall: Mesway is arguably superior to manlyway in both t2 and t3way (though t2way is close, and they are comparable in times) Mesway is both a safer spike, and easier to use and has a safer cleanup (unless there is pretty much no spike,but those are extenuating circumstances and are too infrequent to be considered). Manlyway's only true victory is in T4way, due to the spike being overkill in t2 way and somewhat in T3way, it can still transition into T4way with enough damage, however it is dwarfed by DwG Spike and DwG Spike with 1 Dervish in T4way, so that is not really important. Mesway, despite common belief, is not difficult to run, the T3 bar, however, is intimidating for a lot of pugs, and is not as popular as T2way. This means that T2way is dominant. With T2way dominating pug meta, Manlyway is the way to go because of its diversity and ease of use.

Manlyway vs. DwG Spike

 * T4way: DwG Spike has more survivability because of Shroud and Unseen Fury, as well as the possibility for both Rits to bring hard resses. 2x War spikers for manlyway is weaker than DwGway, Dervishes however, do pack more damage. With an A/N MT, Manlyway is a safer spike, as DwG can be unforgiving if the spike completely falls through. With eoe on one ritualist the potential times are comparable. The main difference with T4way is that it aims for relatively low times (~11 minutes) T4way Manlyway is easier to use but slightly slower with an A/N MT, meaning that DwG Spike wins in terms of speed.


 * Overall: It is hard to compare the two as they aim for different objectives, DwG Spike was traditionally used for speed (and is less safe with the health and damage changes), whereas Manlway is safer and easier. For casual runs Manlyway is probably better, if for some odd reason you wanted lower times (its about 1minutes difference) then DwG spike is superior.

Manlyway vs. DwG + Derv Spike

 * T4/5/6way: DwG + Derv Spike wins this, hands down. It has superior mobility, and stronger spikes, it is also capable of lower times (7 minutes record, techincally). For casual runs the two are very similar, and with safer tactics being incorporated there is little difference. If you want fast safe casual runs, T4way with a forest ritualist and DwG Spiker and 1 Dervish is superior to Manlyway, DwG and Dervish combo is simply too OP to pass up on.


 * Overall: Obviously DwG + Derv Spike is going to be capable of lower times due to it being (similar to) the record bars, Whilst DwG and Derv spike could be misconstrued as Manlyway, it is not the same thing as the basis of the spike is different.

Mesway vs. DwG Spike

 * T3way: If for some odd reason you are running 2x DwG and a Keystone mesmer (which does get run) Mesway is superior due to the same reasons as it is better than Manlyway for T3way.


 * T4way: Mesway loses this for the same reasons it lost vs. Manlyway, it simply cannot be compressed effectively.


 * Overall: If you want faster casual T3way runs, Mesway wins, if you want to T4, DwG wins, they are designed for different purposes so comparing them isn't exactly "fair".

Mesway vs. DwG + Derv Spike

 * Just read Mesway vs. DwG Spike and apply the same reasons here, the differences are the same.

DwG Spike vs. DwG + Derv Spike

 * DwG + Derv Spike wins this, the dervish adds a lot of mobility, and you still get the strong offdamage and EoE on the DwG bar. DwG + Derv Spike is basically the updated DwG Spike which was thought up before the HM updates and slightly after the 7minute record, after HM changes it became stronger and more viable than DwG Spike. It is best for T5/6 Record runs, but technically out-classes DwG Spike and Manly Spike for T4way if it was changed to do so.

=T2way vs. T3way vs. T4way vs. Recordway=
 * This final section is to compare the different Terraways to each other.


 * T2way: This is pretty much only used because it is easiest for pugs. In terms of both effectiveness and speed, you are better off running a T3way for casual runs, as the run will be quicker. This also means that for good speed casual runs, T3 Mesway is the way to go, if pugs were able to start doing T3way as standard it would be ideal.
 * T3way: This is arguably the best Terraway, with T3 you lower potential times down below 15minutes, with a ranger T1 lowering times further. T3way is capable of 11-14 minute runs very consistently (with mesway, slightly higher with Manlway) with 10 being lowest achievable. If your objective is to get your end chest as many times as possible casually with as little chance of failure, T3way is the best option.
 * T4way: T4way is capable of lower times than T3way (~9minutes) and runs can range up to 14minutes, the problem with T4way is that the spikes are less reliable, and with more terras (in both pugs and friend/guild runs) there is more chance that someone will screw up/die. Running a 4th Terra to gain 1-2 minutes is not worth these risks, as in the long run you will be losing chests.
 * Recordway: Not much to be said here, Recordway is for records, t5/6way is just dumb for casual runs. These runs are really, really prone to failure, and yield very few end chests, risky tactics etc mean that it is not viable for farming chest, it is purely for getting the lowest possible time.