Build talk:Rt/any Soul Twisting Prot Hero

This is not really a new build, but an attempt at merging all the other defensive spirits builds.--Grandmaster Chen 17:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * in that case i think you should just ask to merge all of the spirit builds instead of making one or maybe make a guide :s - mo0ter 17:54, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge tags have been on the and the  (two builds using the exact same idea of the 3 protection spirits) build pages for a while now, but nothing much has been done about it. I decided to put them all together with a few more optional skills.--Grandmaster Chen 18:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thing is, who would want someone running this build on their team? It provides fragile protection whilst using up a party slot that could be filled by someone with a more useful build. Kracatoan 12:25, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 15 damage reduction, 75% chance to block and a 10% max health cap on enemy attacks is decent, especially when it works on every party member. The AP Spirit Spammer was rated 'Good' by several other players so I'm obviously not the only one who thinks this.--Grandmaster Chen 12:37, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * PvX is vetted by the community btw. Spirits in HM are just bad seeing as AI goes for them and tears them to shreds leaving you useless. Kracatoan 12:41, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's why Summon Spirits is an optional. And Spirits are not bad HM, I mean take a look at the Mobile Spirits build- I farm on HM with that!--Grandmaster Chen 12:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Farming is entirely different to doing missions/VQ in HM Kracatoan 12:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Farming was just an example actually, for I have completed HM missions and vanquished with the mobile spirits build- chuck in Signet of Spirits, Anguish, Vamp, Pain, Bloodsong, Painful Bond, Spirit Siphon, and of course summon spirits and you have one hell of a devastating build. This build can do pretty well HM too.--Grandmaster Chen 12:50, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Spirit spamming is something which looks good, but isn't. SoS doesn't work properly, spirits change targets all the time and form pathetic blocking walls. I know spirit spamming is appealing because it is so easy, but if that is what you want just run some silly rit MM. Kracatoan 12:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Well you obviously have little experience dealing with offensive spirit spamming. Only fools use spirits as blocking walls, good spirit spammers use their spirits for massive damage with painful bond and cast summon spirits if they are in trouble. Go on, run the build I just listed, if you still think Spirit wranglers are no good after that then you obviously are not playing them properly.--Grandmaster Chen 12:58, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI, I only mentioned SPirit Walls because that had been suggested by someone on PvX not long ago. And anyway, there is a difference between what works and is 'good' and that which will play an active part in your party. Kracatoan 13:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It is funny how people hate that build. You know what? 1 Monk, 1 Offensive Spirit Spammer, 1 of THIS, and 1 Spirit Spammer using Preservation, Restoration, Recovery and Rejuvanation (or WE is that spirit that heals over time). You have got the greatest Offensive / Defensive team core. Add 2 nuker, 1 Ranger and 1 Melee that actually dont suck and any HM mission becomes piece of cake. You mow them down and they cant hit you...is all. That build is just great and please, please, stop comparing with Imbagon, sure Imbagon does +100 armor...but thats not pure damage reduction. And im pretty sure that this build + an imbagon is leet, but dont say it cant reach imbagon's efficiency because it can. And it is not limited to Earshot range.

Spirits should not be used as walls (especially the defensive one, given their range, you can keep em way out of the fight) the only moment spirits could be used as walls is when you have to retreat or really need a diversion. And whoever is saying that the offensive spirit spammers hardly do any damage, get some glasses, cause you need some. Its like having a constant AoE on whatever is in LONGBOW range, and it has some of the biggest spike capabilities AT ONCE (for a single slot i mean...im sure you would say that Discord blah blah blah...dont care). It's no wonder spirit spammers NEVER need time to find a group, its because they are efficient and needed, and what if they are easy to use? It's all for the best, you cant say a Cryer or a SS is hard to use anyway. Yun Deathbound---
 * Agreed, with the June update Spirit Spammers are more than viable. Offensive Spirit Spammers= great damage and defensive ones pack some juicy buffs (plus survivability is better with Armor of Unfeeling). Should be Meta when run with an Imbagon and an MM (for a minion wall).--Mandez 14:28, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Uhhhh no minions with this build. 67.182.24.195 19:15, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

already exists
Ritual Lord lol...know your builds
 * I'm aware of the AP Spirit Spammer and other Defensive Spirit builds: This is an attempted merge of all the defensive spirits builds with more elite optionals added such as Reclaim Essence.--Grandmaster Chen 22:22, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

already exists + waaay less effective than imbagon
 * As I've said multiple times this is a 'merge' page of the other defensive spirit builds which are limited in choice. Please read the discussion page, and if you want to bitch about the build why not bitch about it on the original pages such as, cause I really can't be assed tbh. Oh and please sign your comments with the four '~'--Grandmaster Chen 01:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Less effective than an Imbagon, but, it can be run with an Imbagon for extra defense.--Mandez 01:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * a new meta? Teambagon? --93.173.40.51 09:49, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Put merge tags up on the existing builds, i cbf to hunt around for them. Athrun Feya 15:02, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Thursday, February 25, 2010
The current mains setup is officially the most perfected build to date. ^_^ --96.240.34.47 11:21, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree. I suggest 12+1+3 Communing, 9+3 Channeling, 9+3 Spawning. Adding Spirit Siphon to the build. You enough enough energy up keep to spam the spirits as long as you keep the enchant up. The spirits have a long protection range so you can stay back since you will have low health. You should bring Union, Displacement and Shelter. When the enemy is melee or physical use only displacement. Replace it three times then use Twisting. Sometimes the Twisting will not recharge fast enough to spam all three spirits and it would be a waste if you use shelter and the enemy only does 15% damage. If the enemy is an elementalist use only Shelter and keep that up. If the enemy does a lot of small hits like minions or spirits, use only Union. The extra skills can be Armor of unfeeling, a hard rez and another skill of the user's choice, but the user should always stay far back.--UnwokenSpirit 6:16, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did some cleaning up, don't know if the attributes should stay that way -- tÜrae£xy 18:51, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * This build is way too generic. even for pve. All the elites you have listed make entirely different builds. ···  Danny So Cute    19:15, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They were listed in the original(vetted) build so I didnt want to change them --tÜrae£xy 20:02, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just nuked them and gave it two similar variants which work the best. -- Chaos?  -- 20:09, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * You should definetely use Soul Twisting. Insta recharge, cheaper spirits > + few lvls on spirits. Also wanted to make this xD. Also works fine on a heroSebv2727 20:26, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ritual Lord allows for strong specs. -- Chaos?  -- 20:33, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can we all agree on these two? Ive tested UnwokenSpirit's Soul Twisting-version and the optimized Ritual Lord version. There is enough of a distinct trade off maximum protection/+/infinite-durational recharge/+/hex support vs. maximum energy/+/limited-instant recharge/+/bar compression. --96.240.34.47 20:25, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Twisting is definitely better. The spirits protect the same amount no matter what level. The trick is how long you can keep on up. Higher level will stay alive just a bit longer but you can't replace them fast enough. Twisting will help manage the energy and instant recharge which is what you really need--UnwokenSpirit 5:20, February 28, 2010 (EST)

So
Did some cleaning up, don't know if the attributes should stay that way -- tÜrae£xy 18:51, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

tbh
this build is way too generic. even for pve. all the elites you have listed make entirely different builds. ···  Danny So Cute    19:15, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They were listed in the original(vetted) build so I didnt want to change them --tÜrae£xy 20:02, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just nuked them and gave it two similar variants which work the best. -- Chaos?  -- 20:09, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

ST
You should definetely use Soul Twisting. Insta recharge, cheaper spirits > + few lvls on spirits. Also wanted to make this xD. Also works fine on a heroSebv2727 20:26, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ritual Lord allows for strong specs. -- Chaos?  -- 20:33, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * But the 45 secs recharge on not spirits doesn't make it worth. With ST you also won't need Summon spirits, cause you can just make em again:D.Sebv2727 20:48, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ritual Lord shortens recharge. -- Chaos?  -- 20:49, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Somebody is vandalising the page and removing viable energy managment skills from the variants and speccing 9+3 in channeling for SS wtf? --tÜrae£xy 21:43, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * This terrible IP is involved in a cute RV1. -- Chaos?  -- 21:48, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know who is changing the page but I added another energy management build, but it was taken off with the rest of the page and instructions. I will try putting it back up. I did put a 9+3 for channeling so that you gain 43% of the spirits energy. Thats means you get 13 energy, so an 8 energy gain each time you use it. As long as you stay far back and don't the hits, your HP shouldn't matter. In the variant I put up I took out Armor of Unfeeling because of how fast the spirits die and the new Spirits will not gain the advatange of Armor of Unfeeling until they wait for the skill to recharge again. I found it faster and simplier to just maintain energy, spam Summon Spirits and quicky replace the spirts when they go down. On HM and on AoE spikes, the spirits go down so fast that by the time you use Armor of Unfeeling and Summon Spirits just once, the spirits are dead. Your energy won't last at that rate. But with the variant you will be able to put it back up continously.UnwokenSpirit 15:59, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Dulled Weapon and Armor of Unfeeling
Is it really necessary to mainbar both? I think one should be in the variants, as they both have their pros and cons, but I don't think they are both needed together. J usting  6   04:38, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * the important think about AoU is that reduced the dmg the spirits take when there effects happen(correct me if im wrong) and dulled is really nice since update Sharky  talk  06:46, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

The Most Effective Build
I will put up the build I found most effective in keeping the spirits up as mentioned before. I was thinking about just completely replacing the current build but I haven't tested how effect dull weapon is so I will not replace it just yet. UnwokenSpirit 15:57, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh I don't really see the point of dulled weapon. If you want to make the most effective spirits, you'll take superior runes and have low health - so you'll want to stay as far away from combat as possible. The effect of DW has always been lost on me. ST is definitely the best elite for this build because (a lot of people overlook this) it allows you to cast the same spirit 3 times in 15 seconds. It doesn't matter whether it could have a little more health with RL, ST allows you to totally adapt to any situation. Come across a group of lots of casters? Spam shelter every 5 seconds. Lots of melee? Displacement. Ritual lord will summon a spirit with slightly more health (currently it's 'bugged' so it won't give the extra health gain from +4 spawning power) but if you come under heavy fire and it dies, it's gone for about 20 seconds. Not to mention you need extra energy management for those costly rituals - requiring you to spec into channeling and effectively losing the bonus you get form RL. 90.208.113.3 18:47, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see someone above me has already said this. I feel fairly stupid. 90.208.113.3 18:52, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

By the way, running 1 super rune is bearable, 2 is verging on stupid and 3 is just ridiculous. - Athrun Feya  - 18:55, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not? The Ritualist can stay even further back then BiPs, HP wont matter. Every time I run this I never get hit because you are even behind the healers. Even if they get hit by a random arrow or spell Shelter will cover for them. You will still have around 350 HP so if you have union up also your only getting hit 20. It will take a good number of hits to kill you and its easier on the monk to heal you also. Sometimes some assassin or warrior monsters get past and attack the spirits but with this build you can replace them with no problem.UnwokenSpirit 19:37, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * UnwokenSpirit is right - spirit range is over twice the earshot range bubble (i think). You could have 55 hp and it wouldn't matter, you don't need to be near the aggro at all. 90.208.113.3 21:03, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Variant
Even if you don't really like the variant althrun, it should probably be listed here.

[build prof=ritua/any spawning=9+3 communing=12+1+3 channeling=9+3][Soul Twisting][Shelter][Union][Displacement][Boon of Creation][spirit siphon][Summon Spirits (luxon)][optional][/build]
 * The main obejective of this variant is to stay far back since the spirits have long range protection. With Boon of Creation and Spirit Siphon you are continously able to put the spirits back up no matter how fast they die.
 * (As taken from Rt/Any Defensive Spirits) - --Alex ! 20:22, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why take spirit siphon? Just take 16 in communing and 15 in spawning power. This way, BoC + ST will make your binding rituals have a net cost of 4 - totally manageable. Then you can spam Summon Spirits to your heart's content. Take a hard res instead for 'just in case'. 90.208.113.3 20:52, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Idk, I was with a party at Slavers on HM. I was using only Shelter and Union but the spirits died so fast that I needed the spirit siphon to keep up the energy. This way no matter what the situation you can keep them up. I mentioned it before but the level of the spirits doesn't really matter since they give the same protection at any level. I personally like that setup so I thought I would suggest it. (Btw Alex I changed the last skill in the bar as optional as how I posted in the variants originally.)UnwokenSpirit 21:03, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

[build prof=ritua/any spawning=12+3 communing=12+1+3 restoration magic=3][Soul Twisting][Shelter][Union][Displacement][Boon of Creation][Armor of Unfeeling][Summon Spirits (kurzick)][death pact signet][/build] This is the one I use - energy never becomes a problem, use armor of unfeeling to buff up a trio of spirits before combat and Death Pact because - well, I'm not sure why I favored that over FoMF, it would probably be better to become a monk and get rebirth, so at least you have a hard res with utility. 90.208.113.3 18:59, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

if going to use in slavers, swap displacement for signet of binding so you can steadily have an army of forever spirits that revive themselves. gimmicy, yes, but sadly useful specially when you're not taking a purely active role anyways (distance vs in combat) ALSO at 15 communing the health loss penaly for using it is pointlessly low. 96.13.56.190 02:03, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow does SoB actually work? If so, then that's probably a better idea. I'll have to check if SoB works on unsummoned spirits. 90.206.126.217 09:27, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

How about..
Tryptophan Signet? 0 energy and easily maintained --87.68.33.125 06:45, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys! I wonder, why no1 didnt think of bringing feast of souls? It can serve as perfect outhel in Oh SHIT cases. Will also prove itself useful in DoA/Deep/Urgoz. Just IMO.
 * I would say its because the extra slot is more useful as a hard rez and an armor of unfeeling. The "Oh S***" moments only happen AFTER your spirits are already dead. As long as you keep up shelter and union those moments usually don't happen so feast of souls probably won't be that useful. UnwokenSpirit 06:47, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Maxed and Combined with Imbagon
So, I just ran across this page and wanted you guys to know that I've already been working on this build for a while and have perfected it's use in combination with an imbagon. The combination is something I regularly use in Underworld HM to even neuter Aatxe's into oblivion. However, I don't have an account and really don't feel like writing the page for it myself. If anyone wants the builds/usage to put up here just whisper Blood Red Giant in game. 67.43.242.54 07:58, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The page is free for anyone to edit, even if you don't have an account; BUT this build is not written as a team build so I think we should keep it like this. Oh and btw imbagon makes any team strong not only this, that's just because the imbagon is the best pve build ever --tÜrae£xy 11:22, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the reason imbagon and defensive spirits work so well together is because they defend against opposite extremes. Imbagon's massive armor + damage reduction party wide provides excellent protection against *large* groups of foes with *medium* damage. Defensive spirits blocking + damage caps provides excellent protection against *medium* groups of foes with *high* damage. Thus, combined they work quite well against any group, including those groups in high end areas such as the example given of Underworld HM. However, as for defensive spirits alone, this build could still use some changes (which I will make given your permission).
 * First, I'll list off a few basis for argument. For one, with proper cycling, shelter and union almost never go down before the next cycle. This makes displacement the primary skill for judging the effectiveness of one defensive spirit build versus another. As this spirit spammer should stay back and out of the way of battles, in general, the higher the attributes the better.
 * As for Ritual Lord vs. Soul Twisting, with maxed builds, Ritualist Lord only provides a 10% increase in effectiveness while losing 52 energy every 63 seconds (-2.476 e pips), not to mention the minor health loss. Soul Twisting on the other hand costs only 13.8e every 50.4 seconds (-0.821 e pips), which easily regenerates between battles. Thus, in order to get that extra 10% effectiveness from Ritual Lord you are going to have to sacrifice some damage in exchange for maintaining either BR or BiP on the Defensive Spirit player.
 * As for adding heals to the build, Displacement loses 30 health (with armor of unfeeling) every time it gets set off. As such, some healing may be useful, but it is much more useful to simply refresh the spirit faster.
 * Now, as for refreshing the spirits as quickly as possible (and as such increasing the build's effectiveness), a few things must be taken into account. For one, Armor of Unfeeling must always be placed on the spirits as quickly as possible as it will make the spirits last twice as long. Thus, since Soul Twisting recharges every 15 seconds, and Armor of Unfeeling recharges every 20 seconds, AoU is the limiting factor in refreshing the spirits. With Soul Twisting, the 3 spirits, Armor of Unfeeling, and Boon of Creation (for much needed energy), the spirits can be refreshed every 21 seconds. However, to increase the effectiveness of this build, you can add Serpent's Quickness to reduce the recharge of AoU to 13.4 seconds. If you do all the calculations, this new build will repeat itself every 50.4 seconds with a total of 3 spirit refreshes ever cycle (15 seconds, 14.4 seconds, and 21 seconds). This is essentially a 25% increase in the build's effectiveness, leaving 1 spot left for a resurrect.
 * Lastly, I'm using a major rune of spawning instead of a superior as the difference in power is insignificant with shelter and union and non-existing in the case of displacement.
 * I know these are quite a few changes to the build, so if you would like me to answer any further questions I'm more than welcome to. I have been working with this build for quite a while. This is not to say that this build cannot be improved on, but rather any further changes will only minor improve the build, if at all. 67.43.242.54 13:23, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, I see some reasoning in making this build simpler and not maxing it out in effectiveness. As such, I'll let the rest of the community decide what pieces of information they would like to use, and what they would like to ignore for simplicity. (This is a community project anyway.) As for the build I use for maximum effectiveness:
 * Boon of Creation, Soul Twisting, Union, Shelter, Displacement, Serpent's Quickness, Armor of Unfeeling, Flesh of my Flesh
 * 12+1+3 Communing, 12+2 Spawning, 3 Wilderness. 67.43.242.54 13:28, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * SQ fails compared to ghostly haste in this situation, less att point spread Sharky talk  05:05, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoops, perhaps you meant Ghostly Haste fails compared to Serpent's Quickness? Ghostly Haste only affects spells - not binding rituals - whilst SQ affects all skills. Though, tbh, both are pointless. 90.206.126.243 20:51, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ritual Lord + Spirit Siphon
Should it be noted that you could counter the high energy costs of using Ritual Lord by taking Spirit Siphon? The spirits will be allot more powerful if you can manage the energy properly? Flame_D 07:14, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Universal rule: energy -> skills. Not really. -- Chaos?  -- 08:55, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * How exactly will the spirits be stronger? You'd need to put points into channeling to use spirit siphon efficiently, nulling the effect of +4 from Ritual Lord. 90.198.74.55 12:18, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I actually posted the build on this page with spirit siphon. You will need spirit siphon most only in dungeons or places with an unusual amount of large mobs because you are forced to replace them so fast that twisting's 15 second recharge is not fast enough UnwokenSpirit 05:04, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Neither is Ritual Lord's 60 seconds recharge time fast enough either; without sufficient synergy of Bonders and Imbagons, any mob large enough will literally destroy this build. Lifespan vs. energy vs. recharge is a juggling act; only now thansk to RL/ST, I dont feel like "bonder without the proverbial blessed signet". --96.240.34.47 02:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Dulled Weapon weaker than weakness
And costs much less energy/less recharge. Cuilan 00:48, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then add it to mainbar (or have a necro bring) at cost of Spirits' strength; the weakness condition's damage reduction lowers base damage multiplicity however, while dulled weapon lowers it additionally. --96.240.34.47 02:10, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Meta
Some unregistered user added a meta tag. I don't want to 1RV so was wondering if it should be taken off or kept on. Its voted as a "Good" but I personally think its worth a "Great". Used this to VQ with absolutely no healer and barely anyone had self heals (PUG), it kept everyone alive. UnwokenSpirit 06:33, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Functionality and Minions
Would having the PvE version of the three protective spirits effect only party members (instead of allies) to allow better minion/spirit synergy be considered a nerf or a boon? --Falconeye 18:52, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * A buff, overall, although I can imagine in some missions where you have to protect certain allies (non party members), it would be a nerf. ــѕт.  мıкε  00:16, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shame there isnt an option to deliberately "nerf" our skills whenever certain builds/party/hero composition stand to benefit from it, especially if said nerf would reduce the cost of said skill. Even an option to deliberately nerf some elite skills into a "non-elite" version would be interesting... sort of a build in anti-feature. Mmm... what if Guild Wars 2 had this feature, even going so far as the option to turn most skills into a buffed "elite-version" of itself? --Falconeye 18:42, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * RoF and Life Sheath come to mind. Or Frenzy and PR. Interesting concept, tbh. -- Jai  02:39, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sad bar on Main page
I love my ST rit but that skill bar is pretty sad. Sup Runes? x2? lol [build prof=ritua/any spawning=12+2 communing=12+1+2 restoration=3][Soul Twisting][Shelter][Union][Displacement][Spirit's Gift][Boon of Creation][Energetic Was Lee Sa][Flesh of My Flesh][/build] Spirit Walk is pointless when making new ones every 15sec. With spirits gift I can stand with the casters and remove conditions + heal(even spirits) some and offers a cover for Boon of Creation. Energetic is obvious since you wont have to split. The only real optional would be the rez slot. Death Pact Sig is all right but i still prefer FoMF to prevent over aggroing noobies from getting me killed. Otherwise you can drop Armor of Unfeeling here so every other set of spirits is covered. The real boon of that skill is keeping minions around. Also dropping a rank or 2 in communing and picking up Serpents Quickness isnt horrible but 90% of the time unneeded. Dropping Displacemnt for an extra backup charge and picking an alt skill isnt a crime either since this one spirit drops rediculously fast and in general can be covered by regualr block skills common in play by most teams anyhow. I used this build in BLA with an mm and had zero probs even with all the npcs. And yes dulled weapon is bad. The only thing you should focus on is spamming spirits, nothing more. Jlryan 03:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * ridonkulous. this is the correct build-

[build prof=ritua/any spawning=12+3 communing=12+1+3 prot=3][Soul Twisting][Shelter][Union][Displacement][Armor of Unfeeling][Boon of Creation][Summon Spirits][Rebirth][/build]
 * Spirit range is really large, larger than 2 aggro bubble radii (i can't remember exact) so it's fine to take ridiculous runes. Just stay out of range and maintain Shelter and Union, they're the important ones, Displacement is only a treat you cast once before the fighting starts. Rebirth is something goes horribly horribly wrong and there's a wipe (tbh you shouldn't need it, take something else like spirit's gift). At any rate, the build on the main page does NOT need Dulled Weapon, that's a silly idea. 90.206.126.203 19:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

EFGJack's Variant
Is pretty epic. [build prof=Ritualist/any Communing=12+2+1 Spawning=12+2][Soul Twisting][Shelter][Displacement][Anguished Was Lingwah][Binding Chains][Dulled Weapon][Boon of Creation][Signet of Creation][/build]

 Anvil God  zzz... 18:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * union > displacement 184.158.30.7 21:41, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Only if the attack doesn't deal >60 damage. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 22:03, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * EFGJack has a very specific playstyle that most other people wouldn't try to emulate. He literally has no use for Union as a result (dulled weapon does its job without dying off), but other players will because they don't do the amount of balling and micro that he does. --  Toraen   talk  22:17, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I and several others emulate it. Very well. Just takes some practice. His build has only two spirits because several people on Guru including me have determined that if a hero has 3 spirits, when one dies(union is most likely and heroes don't use this skill after shelter most of time, therefore making it useless), the hero will recast union without Soul Twisting. As well as doing the same with the other spirits when they go down. By having only two spirits, you get an extra 'charge' from Soul Twisting to use while it is on cooldown and the spirits have a greatly reduced chance to go on their 45s cooldown. So two spirits should be more efficient than having all three, if using the build on a hero. But yeah, EFGJack's build probly shouldn't be used by most people because Binding Chains would be a fail and Dulled Weapon would be pretty useless casted on one enemy.68.111.174.90 06:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * microing is hard... Anvil God is trolling with the post, it's pretty irrelevant to the general build. You really only need the ritualist spamming Shelter, union and displacement are added on for more defense. Most of the time it isn't worth the effort to make sure the hero is using the skills correctly.-- Relyk 07:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Absolutely brilliant build. I can't even begin to describe how much better this is then the one on the normal page. Nor am I saying it really makes sense, but heroes PLAY this build about a hundred times better then the original build. It's something about the item spell i think that just makes the ritualist AI kick in and make it play ST properly almost like a human player would. Absolutely awesome! You can replace binding chains with something else though if you feel like it 84.48.54.253 11:29, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

How about..?
Another spirit that costs alot of energy and has a weak duration/recharge ratio a.k.a Dissonance? Its semi-complete shutdown for 1 single foe. Was kinda suprised not to see it in variants...145.33.161.186 12:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I also do not agree with the note that it does not work very good with minions. I use minions as a meatwall, as every1 is I suppose. For that reason I find taking defensive spirits + AOTL bone minions (lvl 21) to work outstanding for me. The meatwall you created, just won't die fast enough to take down the mobs. Ofcourse, they will go down and thus triggering Death Nova for dmg, but the mobs wont kill them fast enough to come after you. In other words, for me defensive spirits synergize with minions. I must reckon, I am not using displacement, because that will die to fast if use in conjunction with minions.145.33.161.186 12:36, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Winds of Change HM
This build shows its awesomeness again in the HM quests. I wonder how I would ever be able to beat quests like "When Kappa Attack" and "Tracking the Corruption" without it (without using cons). I'm also having less to no trouble running it together with a Minion Bomber. :) Vorpal  01:34, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * but but minions trigger the spirits D: 96.15.236.96 02:34, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Doesnt matter, this will only cause minions to be better meatwalls. Only anti-synergy that exists between this and minions is Death Nova, which goes off after the meatwall has been wiped. With this, your meatwall will stay alive alot longer and not blow itself up (along with the enemy). No big deal though82.72.102.207 16:16, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done them without it ;)
 * Just ran human E/Mo bonder for protection. 16:16, 26 July 2011 (UTC) InStars 13:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Should this be on a different page
or variant?

Just a general idea so far. Gives the "SoGM type" something useful to do after laying down all the ghosts. Fianchetto 21:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a variant on the SoGM build already. -- Toraen   confer  22:11, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Name
ST Rit is the common shorthand, possibly Soul Twisting Rit for clarity. ST Communing Rit is also common but redundant. Soul Twisting Prot is a name that nobody uses and aimed at anal-retentive people. I would prefer ST Rit-- Relyk 03:48, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Defensive Spirits (people have stopped using the name these days)
 * ST Rit
 * Soul Twisting Rit
 * ST Communing Rit
 * Soul Twisting Protter (comes from that stupid hero meta thread)
 * "ST Rit" sounds good. Whoever moves this damned page again should fix all the links to this page (special:what links here) Chieftain Alex  10:35, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Split Player/Hero and clean up optional skills
The optional skills section here is one-of-a-kind, and not in a good way. The format is inconsistent with the style of every other build on the wiki, and furthermore contains skills that are no longer considered useful (like Winter), are misleading (like "Fall Back!" which is not used for healing) or counterproductive (like "Stand Your Ground!" which actually kills the energy on a ST Prot hero; or Power Drain which requires the hero to run into range when the ST Prot is best flagged slightly out of cast range), and the vast majority of options are actually for players-only despite saying otherwise (like Earthbind which should only be used with Great Dwarf Weapon, or not used at all because heroes can barely handle 3 Binding Rituals, much less 4).

This build needs to be split for Player and Hero variants because of the way heroes use Soul Twisting, and the optional skills section needs to be reformatted to a more standard style. Sacropedia (talk) 04:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I added the split proposal template. I always favour splitting hero and player builds, this should be the last one that wasn't tagged. I'll take care of the other tagged pages once I have time (no one objected against the proposals) and will then check if someone objected against this one. If not, I'll take care of it. --Krschkr (talk) 00:24, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


 * I'm happy to split the two - however which page should keep the votes? There's quite a few (4 out of 11) of the ratings mentioning this being a hero build. Realistically running this as a player is so mindlessly boring I think this page should be moved to the hero one (hence keep votes with the hero build). - Chieftain Alex (talk) 17:20, 12 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Keeping the hero votes makes a lot of sense, but on the other hand it'd be easier to motivate people to rate the hero build again rather than the player build. --Krschkr (talk) 01:32, 15 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Split performed. I'll look into rewriting the pages in the relatively near future. --Krschkr (talk) 02:44, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Mighty was Vorizun
I had much success with it as an optional, it looked super useful especially in zones like City (against QZ/energy denial) or against multiple assassins like the Wolves in Urgoz. The bigger energy pool means BiP is never wasted, the additional armor offers more survivability when your spirits are down (or against freak accidents), and if the fight goes longer your ST hero still has the energy to fuel his spirits, saving the team...

Considering the ST Ritualist is maybe the most vital part in a regular PvE team and this, being an item spell, is unstrippable, it looks (and feels!) quite powerful. Am I missing something? ^_^ Feydslynox (talk) 07:56, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * One downside is you lose out on the +60 hp benefit from your weapon, making it harder to justify dual superiors. But then again, +15 armor is 23% damage reduction, so 390 hp will actually feel like 506hp versus armor respecting damage if shelter drops. Perhaps it will make the hero lag too much? --Xanshiz (talk) 07:08, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how the hero uses this skill, but I think it might lead to some dangerous situation where he drops the ashes in combat, potentially getting him stuck on 0 energy for a while. Not everyone has a bip in their team (although they should have one), making it incredibly dangerous (when in HM, if spirits drops its not unlikely for you to die). ZStepmother (talk) 13:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * @Xanshiz Dual Superiors might be the best option with this imo, as the lower health pool reduces damage taken when Shelter is up (because of %health damage, it's strong against multiple repeated damage packets under Shelter like Sins targeting your ST) while MwV's armor (as you rightly said) overrides the health loss when Shelter is down.
 * @ZStepmother Iirc the hero usually tries to maintain it in and out of combat (like PwK). I don't remember clearly and can't test it right now, unfortunately. I did not test this without a BiP-supported team though, so this case, while possible, did not really strike me.
 * Anyway thanks for the input, I'm a bit afraid of my own subjective biases here. I remember thinking Clamor of Souls > SoS in mesmerways so it might also be a crappy idea ^_^
 * As of now it looks like it's not the next big thing but it still feels pretty effective, like during things like Foundry, when you need to micro multiple Shelter casts against heavy AoE, I've failed without it, and passed the same groups with it because of the extra energy. Could it be sufficiently useful so as to be added as an optional (especially when compared to the other options)? Feydslynox (talk) 16:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)