Archive talk:R/Mo PvP Crippling Shot/Archive 1

Checked and Reviewed
For Viability. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 16:36, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Attributes
Now that Cripshot is only 10e, shouldn't typical BA attributes be used, 14 exp, 10 ws, 10 marks, whatever's left in prot? --Edru viransu 16:59, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Definitely. Fixed.  87.74.23.208 04:19, 4 July 2007 (CEST)

Expertise
It doesn't reduce the cost of Mending Touch, because it is a Spell, not a touch skill. 84.87.168.39 05:13, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * It's a touch spell, which is indeed a touch skill, so it does. --Edru viransu 05:20, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * No it doesn't, it's a Spell, not a common skill. The touch part is only a method of casting it. Just like Healing Touch. Expertise does NOT reduce the energy cost for Mending Touch, try it yourself, with 16 Expertise if you must. 84.87.168.39 20:10, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * See Talk:Mending Touch or Expertise. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   20:19, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Mending Touch is affected. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 20:20, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Weird... Sorry then. 84.87.168.39 21:34, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * All i know is that it costs less than 5 energy when i use it. as long as it says "target touched ally/foe" it's a touch skill.24.186.207.198 08:41, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

Mending Touch Cripshot?
Shouldn't this just be Build:R/Mo Cripshot or Cripshot Ranger? Teutonic 18:04, 18 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Well, Mending Touch Cripshot differentiates it from the old blackout/distortion cripshots, or the R/A Malice Cripshots... I've honestly never heard it actually be called Mending Touch Cripshot outside of this build name, but that's mostly because, nowadays, Mending Touch is assumed to be on every ranger bar it can be on, pretty much. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 19:45, 18 July 2007 (CEST)

But the days of Blackout/Distortion are long gone and signet of malice is extremely rarely seen. Shouldn't this one be standard and the R/A vsersion be a variant? Teutonic 06:07, 19 July 2007 (CEST)
 * This one is standard, but I suppose the name is a remainder from the past. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 08:31, 19 July 2007 (CEST)

crippling shot is the worst ranger elite attack of all. i cant think of one that is worse.Mizzouman2002 02:15, 25 July 2007 (CEST)
 * How about Poison Arrow? Quick Shot? >.< - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   02:20, 25 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Every single ranger elite except Burning Arrow is way worse than Cripshot. BHA is okay, but it takes away any semblance of condition pressure. Cripshot is amazing. Burning Arrow is slightly stronger than it, if at all. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 00:56, 26 July 2007 (CEST)ok calm down in many pvp sitiuation its 1v1 therefore a build has to be able to kill that just snare

wat is so good about this... i mean really cripple isnt that great. slow them down. ok thats only ok. no extra dmg or degen. and 10 e for it..granted expertise helps but id much rather use a good elite rather than one that does no extra dmg or degen and costs more energy to use it then poison arrow. overall crip shot really is almost useless.

i agree that crippling shot sux horribly.
 * Cripple (aka Snaring) owns. It owns everything. You can use to help your melee characters catch fleeing/kiting opponents, allowing them to hit them and deal their globs of damage (Warriors are DPS machine on auto attack, nvm skills). You can use it to Cripple a Warrior or Sin who is hitting someone on your team, and allow them to run away so that they can't deal their damage. It also gives you control over your opponents movement, and in PvP, you want to be in control. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   06:24, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

at least quick shot can do dmg. poison arrow causes degen and costs less energy. crippling shot costs 10 energy and has no potential for dmg and no degen... interesting that ppl say its awesome and they never say why. id like to hear a reasonable reason why its so good. cripple just isnt good unless u have a good team to fight and kill the guys for u.mizzouman 06:28, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

poison arrow,,,kindle arrow combo is a ton better and with conjure flame its awesome. use that instead of a no dmg elite that overall will cost more energy to uphold and has no potential to kill anyone.mizzouman 06:30, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * cripple the warrior train on your monk, cripple the monk running from your warrior train, cripple the enemy flag runner over and over, cripple relic runners, annoy the hell out of people with cripple. &mdash; RAWR! [[Image:Skasig.jpg|19px]] Skakid9090 06:31, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Who cares that it does no extra damage? It cripples! And Ranger bow damage sucks to begin with! If you look up just 1 post above your last one, you can read (/crosses fingers) why Cripple is good. Seriously, get your facts straight buddy. Rangers don't kill things. They spread degen and perform other utility roles. Warriors and squishies deal damage; that's why they are restricted to melee-range and soft armor, respectively. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   06:32, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

This is a team game, you HAVE to rely on your team to help you. This one skill is potent enough to completely change the maneuvering of battle. Teutonic 06:45, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

I guess that some Ranger players (like myself) are sick bastards, that like to annoy people running around in HA/AB/GvG, shooting Cripple's for 4 energy (3 with Zealous string) and laugh at crawling, bleeding/poisoned foes, shouting "Yuo no0b y0u dindt d0 m3 d4mege!11", just to be killed in next second by a warrior or dervish. Muwahahha! Oh, yeah, I love this build. &mdash; Abedeus   18:18, 4 August 2007 (CEST)

Saying Cripshot is the worst ranger elite, is like saying RoF is the worst Monk skill. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 22:00, 19 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Watchful Healing is win &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:24, 19 August 2007 (CEST)

People complaining about Cripshot being weak haven't played one in GvG. When cripshot runners were the norm you could see the effect of the cripshot coming into play; pressure comes off the softies, the enemy softies are under increased pressure - likewise, playing midline/gank cripshot is very noticeable, the red bars tell you how much of an effect you have on the game flow, besides also interrupting key skills. Cripshot is a heck of a skill - it may not have the same type of 1 on 1 damage that a BA has, but that's not its role - the defense and increased pressure are actually quite impressive.

Agreeing with the above poster, Cripshot shines in large arenas, mainly GvG. With a 50% speed decrease, you can keep a flagrunner from reaching the flagstand, keep gank teams from getting away, and cripple offensively/defensively.
 * dont you mean green bars? 76.98.149.51 03:52, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Gotcha now
Your right.. im thinking from a whole different stand point here. this works the way its supposed to. two thumbs up.mizzouman 06:19, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
 * You crack me up dude. &mdash; Hyperion` // talk 02:37, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

o wow this build changed, it was better with r/me with distortion...soo good

Clones
This is a clone of the burning arrow ranger and mending cripshot builds, we should just find the majority favorite and put the other two as variants, since it's only an elite different on each one.--Daniel Rendat 23:21, 9 August 2007 (CEST)
 * This has been discussed over and over again. They serve different purposes. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 23:27, 9 August 2007 (CEST)
 * No. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 23:27, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

Ressurecting
Why are we using Rez sig? Why not use Ressurect? What am I missing? --Joseph Leito 21:08, 19 August 2007 (CEST)
 * because that's a horrible skill, it only rezes with 25% health and takes 6 seconds to cast. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 21:09, 19 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Because Res Sig resurrects people with health and is faster casting? And also isn't a weak skill. Resurrect's only 5 sec cast, btw, Skakid. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 21:13, 19 August 2007 (CEST)
 * 1 sec.... teh world is ovar. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 21:16, 19 August 2007 (CEST)

25% health and 0 energy, I sure do hope you are joking.
 * Why not update to the sunspear res? If you do a couple days of PvE to get the ranks it's a better res.
 * Reithan 23:01, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Because cripshot's a PvP build, perhaps? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 23:03, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Could at least add it as a variant for people who aren't too lazy to spend a few measly hours getting rank on a PvE toon. :P
 * I got sunspear 8 on my Ele in like, 2-3 days only playing a few hours each day. Just get with someone with a farming build and go farm something near one of those extra points shrines. tada - killer res skill.


 * Reithan 23:07, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * You seem to miss my point: cripshot is weak in PvE. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 23:09, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * You seem to miss one of the cooler points of GW - you can change your build for different tasks.


 * Reithan 23:10, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Okay, let me explain it more in depth. Cripshot is useless in almost all PvE situations(snares are pretty much useless outside of one or two missions and elite missions(where all the snares you need are deep freeze and ward foes)). Since you can only use Sunspear Rebirth Signet in PvE, you are not going to have a chance to use Sunspear Rebirth Signet of a Cripshot. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 23:12, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * nevermind
 * Reithan 23:16, 1 October 2007 (CEST)

Why does this even have crip shot it is an ab build...
 * Because Cripshot is better than you are =D - Rawrawr  23:24, 31 October 2007 (CET)
 * Seconding. --71.229.204.25 23:42, 31 October 2007 (CET)

Arenas
RA and TA tags should be added to this build. Cripshots are excellent there as well. Zuranthium 20:44, 6 November 2007 (CET)
 * i dont see why not. but this thing shines hellishly in AB & GvG.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 14:41, 15 November 2007 (CET)

I don't think should, the damage output is very weak, and all this build does is degen and run when times get bad. There simply isn't any room for this build on a 4 vs 4 game. Huynh 04:47, 12 December 2007 (CET)

Pin down
Not elite and more crip time, so better move--Murderer Bomb 01:47, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * But what happens when the person your trying to cripple is cured of the condition? Then you have to wait for Pin Down to recharge again and try once again to cripple them. Also, Crippleshot can't be blocked which allows for anyone to be hit by the shot as long as they don't evade it, and plus if they take it off you can put it back on them again with the 1 second recharge. Crippleshot>Pin Down [[Image:Joshgt2Sig.png]] <font color=#FFA500>Joshgt2  <font color=#FFA500>(Talk) 01:53, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * Cripshot = condition spam. You use it to cripple and poison lots of people.  Pin Down is trash. --71.229.204.25 02:05, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * You've obviously never played outside of GvG or HA. Most people don't have monks is casual PvP and even fewer run condition removal unless it's the OP Mending Touch, which is usually only found on rangers. This makes Pin Down FAR superior to Crip Shot in these arenas, simply because it frees up your elite and doesn't need to be applied as often. Most people won't be able to remove it and if they were running Mending Touch crip shot does no better anyway. 58.110.140.18 20:03, 26 November 2007 (CET)
 * In response to your first sentence: That's because other PvP is fail. Tl;dr the rest. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 06:56, 19 December 2007 (CET)

Uh no, almost all the none mending monks i see in RA are running dismiss, or mend condition. Antiarchangel 15:22, 18 December 2007 (CET)
 * That's because they're bad. And 58.110, why the hell are you running Cripshot if you don't need that level of movement control? :/ --71.229.204.25 18:58, 18 December 2007 (CET)

Bad Rating
I think this build is bad. I post a rating and it is suddeny reomved along with soemone elses because it is the only bad reviews.--Murderer Bomb 21:40, 14 November 2007 (CET)
 * Because you both lack a basic understanding of this build's purpose. Perfectly valid reason. --71.229.204.25 21:42, 14 November 2007 (CET)

Why is my comment removed the build plainly sux and we r entitled to our opinion and i hv tried this build a lot and it suxLord Justin K 00:47, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * Feel free to have your opinions, including that cripshot's cripple at 10 marks only lasts for 5 seconds(wrong), or that cripshots suck(wrong), or that AB is a meaningful metric for the efficacy of a build(wrong, although Cripshot is less effective in AB than elsewhere, due to the low skill level of most players there, despite still being very useful). However, despite being free to have your opinions, you are not nearly so free to decrease the quality of pvxwiki with your incorrect opinions. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 00:54, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * I point you to bullet #5. PvX isn't a democracy, and bad votes on good builds will be removed with extreme prejudice. --71.229.204.25 00:55, 17 November 2007 (CET)the reason i rated it bad is because in pvp u hv to be able to 1v1 ppl without the restof ur team take splits in gvg for example orgot to sign in Lord Justin K
 * And you can hold them there long enough for your warrior to split off to kill them, or if you really want, you can kill most people without numerous 1/4c/stance defensive skills with skillful play. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 18:43, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * Also, splits aren't really about killing. They're about forcing the enemy team to deal with you in a way that's favorable to you. A cripshot's interrupts and snares make it an incredibly good skirmish template. besides, in splits, one person versus flagger won't do anything, now that SP sins have been nerfed. It's going to be at least you and a warrior and possibly a monk/flagger as well, against a flagger/monk and probably a warrior and/or ranger when offensively splitting, and usually a flagger versus whatever they split on defensive splits, possibly with you or a warrior sent back to help your flagger. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 18:48, 17 November 2007 (CET)calm down in many pvp situations ur build has to be able to kill just not snare take ra or ab for example
 * And this build does kill. Interupt everything, they can't kite away, then they die while someone else beats on them. Lord of all tyria 19:34, 18 November 2007 (CET)

and if there is no1 else on ur team?
 * Then why the hell are you playing a cripshot? :/ --71.229.204.25 00:25, 21 November 2007 (CET)
 * Then you can, if you're not outnumbered, degen + interrupt some people to death. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 01:22, 21 November 2007 (CET)
 * If there's no-one else on your team left, you crip any threats then run over to another friendly team using natural stride. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 18:09, 21 November 2007 (CET)
 * Don't bother arguing against them. This wiki is full of a bunch of pimply faced teenage boys competing in an e-penis measurement contest. They don't care what you or anyone else thinks, their opinion is correct, it's how a wiki works. The small privileged minority controls everything else based on personal preference. 58.110.140.18 20:08, 26 November 2007 (CET)
 * Actually, the reason is that people who question a build like that don't understand how it works and what it's for. A cripshot was never designed to solo kill people, and generally it's a waste of time to try to do so. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 18:21, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Also, PvX:NPA and PvX:Don't Be Bad. --71.229.204.25 20:21, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Also, let's not forget that in a 1v1, the Ranger wins when the opponent can never actually get into range to hit you. Shoot, move back, shoot again, and repeat until target is dead. Works every time (unless your opponent is also using a Crippling skill, in which case, you're on even ground and will win via your own skill). --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  23:06, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * ...to clarify my point before it confuses anyone, Cripshot Rangers aren't designed to 1v1, but that doesn't mean they can't win. So using that as your reasoning that the build is bad is flawed in multiple ways. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  23:08, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * @58.110.140.18. Who cares if its ran by teenage boys (myself included)? At least its not ran by fucktards who don't know how to play.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 00:23, 29 November 2007 (CET)

Please abuse check user more admins. Thanks. 209.189.130.127 23:11, 27 November 2007 (CET)


 * What? Who you want checked? [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (T/C/Sysop) 23:52, 27 November 2007 (CET)

DE (hes carrying illegal drugs such as spiked eggnog and golden easter eggs)--<font color="DarkGreen">«º¤¥Ω☼Vørråx☼Ω¥¤º» 23:56, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * The bastard! :P [[Image:Defiant Elements Sig Test 2.JPG|50x19px]] *Defiant Elements*   +talk  00:00, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * That's horrible! Banhammer time DE? [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (T/C/Sysop) 00:03, 28 November 2007 (CET)

u dont understand in pvp a characters in a 1v1 situation all the time they cant always be with another person68.36.202.128 00:14, 29 November 2007 (CET)
 * AB is not PvP. --71.229.204.25 00:15, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * AB is not PvP. It is a place for good people to go on power trips or to run builds that have been nerfed to all hell. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  00:18, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * Quote: "in pvp a characters in a 1v1 situation all the time." lolwut? Lrn2play plz.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 00:20, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * NPA less plz. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:24, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * Hey guys, I wonder what a flagger is? —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  03:00, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * A "Flagger" is someone who points out player's flaws while in the middle of a PvP match (thus "flagging" the mistakes as they are made). Some Flaggers are also in charge of the use and coordination of the /report feature.
 * Feel free to write this down and post it onto your wall for future reference as to the meaning of the term. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  06:59, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * Thanks! Always wanted to know what that idiot standing around doing nothing was doing. <font color="#DA04FF">G OD L IES <font color="#DA04FF">T alk 15:58, 29 November 2007 (CET)

first of all how is it not pvp PLAYER VS PLAYR noobs and also in ab amd aspenwood and other stuff u constantly have to fend off by urself nubz like u said lrn2ply
 * You know, we have a new policy - PvX: Don't Be Bad. You should look into it. --71.229.204.25 22:00, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * +1 for the established anon. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  22:06, 29 November 2007 (CET)
 * I would also like to agree with the expressed sentiment. Lord of all tyria 22:10, 29 November 2007 (CET)


 * And to clarify, AB is in a literal sense PvP, and we all know that... it's just not considered as PvP because the level of play is far too low to be taken seriously. tbh, it's more like Pv?... LavaEdge324 02:14, 4 December 2007 (CET)
 * No, it's because you're fighting NPCs half the time (at least). -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 11:11, 4 December 2007 (CET)
 * AB is PvE against other people. How else would you explain "tanks" being even remotely successful? They surely must be exploiting the bad "AI" of other players. - Auron 11:17, 4 December 2007 (CET)
 * The Drama Llama is not impressed >:O [[image:Drama Llama.jpg|45px]]--Shadowsin 14:15, 4 December 2007 (CET)-
 * Btw. Someone needs to stop throwing around PvX Dont Be Bad, its not a policy.... yet >.>....<.<...>.>--Shadowsin 14:18, 4 December 2007 (CET)

Thought I could get away from this article but i can't. O well. Let me explain my new rating, which i am gonna post in a few moments. I have thought about this and see how it CAN be useful. Yet I still dont see as how it is "THE BEST RANGER ELITE" as was posted on my talk page. This build is useless in most ab situations. Both temas mob, cripshot goes in to cripple them, knockdown sin teleports to em, they are dead in 5 secodds, although this is the case with mose people. In places like TA and RA, this is useful because it can stop the enemy team before they get to u and it helps, but still, 1 mnok with remove conditions and the build is pretty much stopped. Back to ab, you need to capture shrines. CRIPSHOT TAKES TOO LONG TO TAKE A SHRINE. U need to take it, cap it, and move on. A cripshot ranger will take a while to take any shrine, and then a while to cap it. If some of you are wondering who whould actually solo cap, instead of fighting, or wouldnt be with ur group here is what i say. GREOUPS GET SEPERATED. When your party gets wiped slowly, u will not be able to get back out right away, so there ya go. Second reason, red to farming. Its fun, but it doesnt win ab, and if this is the goal of this build, its not good for ab anymore with all the mobbings. I could go on for hours, but i gotta actually go on guild wars AND HAVE FUN AND NOT ARGUE FOR MONTHS ABOUT OPINIONS ON A BUILD THAT IS SIMPLY JUST COPIED FROM ANOTHER BUILD, in this case, the burning arrow build. ANd dont think i didnt read the discussion above. The elite does tchange the build, but it is not enough of a change to be called more then 1 build. Put them together and call varients:) BTW, this is Murderer Bomb, just not logged in.--68.38.224.29 02:45, 8 December 2007 (CET)
 * Any ranger who dies to just a sin(any sin) is horribly bad.
 * Any monk who is removing cripple enough for it to seriously matter is not going to be able to heal or protect his team.
 * Unless said monk is running RC, they can't remove the cripple, except with Mending Touch.
 * Cripshot's primary usefulness in AB is not capping but in preventing others from capping.
 * AB is a horrible standard for judging any build.
 * Winning AB has no correlation with your build, or even your entire team's builds.
 * Good groups don't get seperated(except in cases of severe lag) in AB. Even good groups that aren't even playing seriously(for example, running long-nerfed builds(boon prots, blackout cripshots, etc.) rarely get seperated.
 * This build predates the BA by nearly 2 years. If BA is not enough different to be considered a different build, then you'd rate it a 2-2-0, as well, no?
 * I could find more points, but I'm getting tired of this diversion... --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:01, 8 December 2007 (CET)

first of all ur morons hv no ife if u look at this everyday so i win case closes good bye nerdass
 * lol ur funy --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 17:31, 2 January 2008 (EST)

yeah just did this to prove a point AND annoy them lol68.36.202.128 16:14, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Broadhead Arrow, Cripshot Arrow and Burning Arrow
These are all of the same builds and should be merged explaining the different variances with the elite skills for the different playing styles.
 * No, they shouldn't. It's been attempted on at least 2 occasions, and each time, it has been demonstrated that the builds shouldn't be merged.  [[Image:Defiant Elements Sig Test 2.JPG|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  23:58, 3 December 2007 (CET)
 * Build:R/Mo: General Utility Pressure Done it, for myself, my own refrence if you want to use it. --Shadowsin 00:06, 4 December 2007 (CET)

they are the same. It looks to me you when about it the wrong way. You didn't even name it correctly.
 * No they aren't. They are not the same build.  [[Image:Defiant Elements Sig Test 2.JPG|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  00:13, 4 December 2007 (CET)

they are the same build. They have the same stats and all the same skills except for the elites. Wich create different purposes for the builds just as if you were to have "optional" slots for variations to the build.
 * The builds have distinctly different purposes. [[Image:Defiant Elements Sig Test 2.JPG|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  00:17, 4 December 2007 (CET)

yes, hence the variation of the BUILD.

This has been tried time and time and time again. NO. -- Armond Warblade 00:21, 4 December 2007 (CET)
 * Different purposes = different builds. [[Image:Defiant Elements Sig Test 2.JPG|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  00:21, 4 December 2007 (CET)

The Elite skill determines the rest of the build, simply because it is the most crucial and powerful skill in the build. We often identify builds based on their elites (SoR, BiP, MoR, BA, etc). Changing the one skill that determines the rest of the build inherently changes the build. You simply can't swap out Elites as easily as you can with other, less powerful skills. For example, a Shock Axe would be much less effective if it used Decapitate or Cleave instead of Eviscerate, yet yu can easily switch Healing Signet for other utility or attack skills and maintain the general purpose and playstyle of the build. - <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman    00:23, 4 December 2007 (CET)


 * that makes more sense krowmanTalyyn Silent Wind 00:29, 4 December 2007 (CET)

Remove AB tag...
Since many people don't seem to understand the concept of this build saying AB and CM as an example, why not just remove those tags... anyhow BA is superior for AB and CMs. --Usual 17:13, 20 December 2007 (EST)
 * Many people? Though not quite applicable here, Emerson once said "To be great is to be misunderstood". Which I would twist and say misunderstood does not mean bad. BA has completely different usage. [[Image:Shogunshen_Holidaysig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Darkgreen"> Shen <font color=#B22222>has <font color=#B22222>cookies 17:15, 20 December 2007 (EST)

IMO cripshot owns in AB + CM's, the snaring ability is unmatchable, only beaten by a water ele, which arn't very common, and if your a decent ranger you should be able to interupt quite a few key skills (Dannyb44 17:29, 20 December 2007 (EST))
 * Well, if it's useless, howcome in AB yesterday i saw atleast 6 rangers using this build. I was the only one that wasn't, and i still owned them. -81.76.77.205 06:02, 22 December 2007 (EST)
 * Cripshot kicks ass for AB, just cripple the Wammo's/Touchers and watch them rage @ the All-chat... priceless. --J0ttem™ 05:49, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * Heh, it's priceless when the little cripshot ranger runs away like a little sissy instead of standing his ground, but o well thats what this builds made for. Huynh 20:20, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah, you're right. He should stand still and let the crippled wammo catch up to him, completely negating the purpose of his build, and take his beating like a man.  Mm-hmm. --71.229 20:25, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * But mending will save you! Lord Belar 20:49, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * And this is why AB is a joke. Honor? Being a sissy? It's fucking tactics. There are nearly no other builds where retreating is a victory in and of itself (read:they can't cap for 20 seconds because they move quite slow). Now, what it boils down to is this: Cripshot owns face with an organized team.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 22:37, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * I am not saying it's bad or anything. All I am saying is this build is the king of all sissy builds but it works well because it uses the "shoot and run away while the guys crippled" as a benefit to hinder enemy capturing. It would have better to me if it was an offensive build but Hey thats just how I play the game. Would you rather shoot him at the leg and run away, or would you just shoot him through the head and end it there? Some people like running away some people like killing on the spot. In the end it just depends on how you play the game. Huynh 16:42, 24 January 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, it all depends on how you play the game. For example, grinch plays well, and you don't. Hence the disagreement. Lord Belar 16:44, 24 January 2008 (EST)
 * I just lost the game. --71.229 16:46, 24 January 2008 (EST)
 * If you want to shoot someone in the head and be done with it, I recommend Team Fortress 2. If you want to try to do damage as a ranger (lol), I recommend using Burning Arrow. It's the least lol of DPS rangers, because the other seven skills are actually useful. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 17:07, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Capping Problem
While lacking a solid ability to cap on it's own, the ability to reduce the likelihood of perhaps many of the opposing team's players chances of capping is substantial. &mdash; Skakid  HoHoHo 19:24, 20 December 2007 (EST)

This is the most interesting discussion page to read, really, anywhere. IPs complaining about the lack of 1v1 power are funneh. christmas doesnt warrant stupid sigs, people 13:31, 21 December 2007 (EST)


 * I wasn't talking about its 1v1 cappabilities, I think that was just assumed. I mean even with a team capping shrines, its not the most effective for AB capping. for everyone bout to jump in and bash me some more, I am just stating this in my experience...thats all...Talyyn Silent Wind 11:41, 22 December 2007 (EST)
 * That's because it's not a capping focused build. It's a keep-the-other-team-from-capping-because-they-can't-get-to-a-shrine-because-they-can't-move build. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 11:47, 22 December 2007 (EST)


 * yep, thats what I heard. ThanksTalyyn Silent Wind 12:06, 22 December 2007 (EST)
 * Aye, dont get your panties ina bunch, i wasnt talking about you or anyone specifically. btw, running cripshot in ab in about 3 seconds lol.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] christmas doesnt warrant stupid sigs, people 12:10, 22 December 2007 (EST)


 * Ok, maybe I will meet ya there...Talyyn Silent Wind 12:13, 22 December 2007 (EST)


 * Longbows and Flatbows are your friends. I can easily cap shrines by just poisoning all the NPCs from a distance, it just takes a good bit longer than if I was using a Nuker. --Curse You 15:08, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * The slowness is the point, a BA ranger uses a flatbow to solo cap. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 17:32, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * to alleviate the capping problem, run a high powered attack skill like sloth hunter's shot. use a vampiric flatbow, and use your interrupts to quickly poison every npc the last part is really important. 8 DPS is not alot, but 8x3 DPS can be quite significant.--Moriz 22:51, 7 February 2008 (EST)

No one cares. It's not a damage build, don't try to use it for damage. -- Armond Warblade 20:20, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Do you think this would be able to replace a water ele in HA? (its a pressure build) [build name="C-Shot HA" prof=Ranger/Paragon expert=12+2 marksm=10+1 wilderness=6+1 command=6][Crippling Shot][Distracting Shot][Savage Shot][Debilitating Shot][Make Haste][Song of Concentration][Apply Poison][Resurrection Signet][/build] --Hyprodimus Prime 02:24, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * Debilitating and apply look horribly wrong on that bar. I have absolutely no idea why, and I can't logically explain why they shouldn't be there. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:33, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * Debilitating would look at home on a Magebane bar, but for cripshot I'd swap it for Screaming Shot or Natural Stride. BTW, I saw some strange stuff obsing HA yesterday.  Some group, can't remember the leader but it was DF and alliance in the group, had two R/As running Siphon, Crippling Dagger, and Magebane.  Serious WTF, this is totally retarded and all kinds of awesome moment. --71.229.204.25 02:59, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * Well debilitating because its a e-denial build with fear me PLeak and Debilitating. Why is apply poison bad? It's the cover condition.--Hyprodimus Prime 03:11, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * When I said things look wrong, I don't mean they're bad. It just... I dunno... looks off when you look at it. Kind of like looking at your spaghetti and expecting to see tomato sauce, but getting pesto instead? Something like that. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 04:16, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * I don't know about you, but if I got pesto instead of tomato sauce, I'd be happy. :P But, yes, debilitating looks wrong. Lord Belar 17:05, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * Higher Expertise is necessary for increased spamming of Cripshot and Savage, as well as maintaining Apply Poison. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:02, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * I agree. 14 Expertise, the 1 less energy poof off of Debilitating Shot isn't gonna kill you, especially compared to the energy you yourself will save spamming it in the long run. Apply only looks wrong to me cause it's at the end of the bar =P --Hikari 01:10, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Changed the attributes, thanks guys. I like to put the skills I spam near 1 and things like res, Attunes, preparations and stuff I wont be activating as much near 8.--Hyprodimus Prime 04:13, 17 January 2008 (EST)