Build talk:Me/N Lyssa's Aura Orders

I've been playing this a lot lately with a Bomber, SoS rit and 3 physicals and I'm thoroughly convinced this is a 5-5. Energy is mostly fine with only Lyssa's Aura. Heroes are probably too stupid to not expire it, but as a player build it's both efficient and doesn't feel like a bitchrole because you have time to cast OoP and still call targets with Barbs/MoP. Lack of sustain isn't an issue. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 09:32, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you can get a similar effect from just using SoMS with /D, but being able to resolve Barbs before things are dead is pretty nice. It's a shame the atts are kinda low but with enough phys hits it doesn't matter too much. -- Toraen  wiki  05:08, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * True, I hadn't considered that. Barbs on target is generally better than Order though (assuming single target), since it procs on minions etc.
 * I'm not sure about AtB (as per your comment summary), nor do I usually combine Communing support with minions. One advantage would be having one spell less to cast all the time, since even with fast casting it can get tight.
 * The reason it's not mainbar is [team] bar compression. Since you're likely to bring at least 2-3 physicals and a minon master, + preferably SoS channeling support you might find it hard to fit it in alongside Weaken Armor, Enfeebling Blood, prot skills and whatever utility (or gimped bars) you're running, not to mention healing. --  DANDY ^_^ -- 07:16, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * My edit summaries are usually jest (and I'm still surprised anyone reads them). It's not like +1/2/4 damage per trigger (for OoP/Barbs/MoP respectively) is necessary over other skills. I wouldn't combine a minion bomber with a communing rit either. -- Toraen  wiki  17:13, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure what kind of plebeians you've been dealing with for the past few years, but I thought everyone checks on their watchlist through recent changes. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 18:21, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * So many plebeians Dandy. So many. -- Toraen  wiki  05:30, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It appears the damage has been done. Wikisupremacy is already overflowing into the rest of the page.
 * Hail the Great Archive.
 * Wat. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 07:44, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Archive
Does this build deserve a place in the build namespace? I don't want to test this build, so I'm just talking about the theory. The way I see it, is that you cripple your team rather than improve it by bringing this build over other mesmer builds. I only see it being effective when playing with a lot of melee players, and even then you bring more to the team by just running any of the other builds. I don't think the tiny damage increase for physical damage players is preferable to having a real mesmer (very high damage, caster/physical shutdown). This is a niche build, you play a support mesmer rather than damage/shutdown, but I think you support your team much better if you simply kill&shutdown the enemy groups faster, which you do with other mesmer builds. This kind of support build is better left to other professions, mesmers simply have too much damage&shutdown to ignore. I think you are actively crippling your team by running this build over any other mes build. ZStepmother (talk) 10:49, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Mark of Pain: not very effective in regular pve, unless actively trying to ball the enemies (due to low range). Very effective for ball&spike teams (which you only really see in SCs)
 * Blood Bond: some healing for your melees is nice, but killing enemies faster/shutting them down is more effective for keeping your melee players alive.
 * Barbs: This skill is only good for killing high HP targets. In general pve, mobs simply don't have enough HP to warrant taking this skill. Mobs die too fast for this skill to be effective.
 * Orders: It's a nice damage boost for your physical damage dealers. I still don't think the damage you gain is comparable to the damage a real mesmer can dish out (on top of all the shutdown they provide).
 * We've played both variants (preferred the PI version in all cases) a couple of times when playing with plenty of physicals (3+) and it was worth it. The damage output from the physicals is increased a lot with the GDW and order spam and you can't argue with the effectiveness of the frequent knock downs. They are both offensive and defensive shutdown. Then you have psychic instability yourself, and that used on balling foes with a followup mark of pain is a fine nuke. Barbs is indeed not a good skill and probably just there because the main bar is lyssa's aura which needs spammable spells. As I find this to be a nice niche build I don't agree with archiving it. --Krschkr (talk) 11:01, 11 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I'd probably go for something like this as a BiP supported main bar. Free slot: Ebon standard of honour if there are 2+ ranged armour respective damage dealers (you don't have time to run into melee range). Weaken armour if you have scythe, hammer, 100b or VoS players. More enchantment removal against monks or dervishes. Barbs for boss foes. Can also drop WNWN for one more support or utility skill. --Krschkr (talk) 11:10, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Psychic Instability is not listed on the page, and GDW is hardly exclusive to this build. Houroftheowl (talk) 19:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It's in the variantbar right below the mainbar. Might want to archive this and make it a separate page if we're keeping orders in namespace though (probably with Krschkr's updated bar in this section), the BiP meta is not going anywhere anytime soon and Lyssa's Aura doesn't really have a place in it. -Toraen (talk) 19:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

martial heroes
The page doesn't explain this at all - are you supposed to bring heroes with physical damage? If so, which ones? Houroftheowl (talk) 19:15, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This (like all orders builds) is really best used to support multiple physical players, as heroes are always going to have sub-par AI for the role. Depending on how often you form groups for non-SC stuff, you might never actually run this (or any player orders) seriously anymore. -Toraen (talk) 19:28, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If the build requires physical players to be effective, shouldn't the page say so..? Houroftheowl (talk) 17:53, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That's fairly obvious from it's role as a physical buffer (all of them are far better utilized buffing players rather than heroes). If you think it necessary to make the introduction explicitly state so, it would be a fine edit. Krschkr could add one of the Team Integration/Purpose sections like he's been doing on his own submissions, but they've never been a requirement and this build is from before that was even a thing. I am leaning towards archiving this one and having the PI Orders submitted as a new page though. -Toraen (talk) 19:09, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Edit: Huh, this does make more mention of heroes than anything else. Just another reason to archive this one I suppose. -Toraen (talk) 19:41, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Rather a reason to update it. Lyssa's Aura has its merits for pure player teams (no BiP in most cases), PI for mixed player/hero teams. --Krschkr (talk) 14:12, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Cultist's Fervor
Bring Order of the Vampire and add non-elite energy management from Insp. Half the energy cost...--Saxazaxx (talk) 01:02, 10 October 2020 (UTC)