PvXwiki talk:Evaluating Administrators/March2010

Athrun Feya
A link to lau joking about policy hardly seems applicable (since she's obviously being sarcastic). And if you review that situation, she actually handled it pretty well. Karate  Jesus  21:17, 9 March 2010
 * It's also from before she was an Admin. So even if it would've been something that an Admin should never ever do, it shouldn't be used to as "evidence" of bad adminship. Kur tan   21:42, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, i became admin on 8th feb and that was from 2 months beforehand. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 21:57, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Auron
...isn't active enough to have links--- X  TREME 23:20, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Bigtymerxg4
Just a quick fyi, me speaking my mind = tyranny? Just wanted a quick clarification. Obviously I'm foul-mouthed, and I type even more swear words. But how, exactly, am I abusing my sysop position? Those links are all fairly recent and even though I'm an admin that mostly lurks, I see nothing wrong with me being a douche. -- Big McStrongfist  19:56, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only real issue I see being brought up right now is that Big is mean. If we're going to do this right, someone should at least dig up posts of him trolling Saint. ···  Danny So Cute    20:03, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * huhu^^ -- Big McStrongfist  20:13, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * The tyranny thing was a joke. -- Chaos?  -- 20:16, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Still wondering what did those links prove beyond me being an asshole. -- Big McStrongfist  20:30, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Since when is banning for a violation of 1RV a bad thing? ···  Danny So Cute    21:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * you don't understand the situation, basically he put up a giant video on a build page, i took off the youtube tags and left the link, he reverted me and i re-removed them, and i got 3 day ban for it. Gringo 23:08, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * it's still technically 1RV. i'm not saying what Thunda did was right, either, but if you want policy enforced, why is enforcing it bad? ···  Danny So Cute    23:35, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ironically, it was Auron who told me to unblock you. And Thunda got a perma. -- Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  23:38, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

I've actualy kept meaning to ask this, but what was the reason behind Napalm's unblock? <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:58, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought that was Frosty's idea? <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">23:01, 9 March 2010
 * For all of the nitpicking I've been watching, I've yet to see me abusing anything. I perma'd that person because an account was created with the sole intention of vandalism? I always ban IP's for a week for vandalism. And Auron said it was okay to unblock. /the game -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  23:06, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * you have no way of knowing it was create solely for vandalism, yes a ban was in order, a perm wasn't. 3 days or even a week if you felt it necessary and then a warning would suffice. If they came back and continued to vandalise then consider a perma. You don't just perma on a whim.
 * Fine if you ban IP's for a week for vandalism, that's your preference, I wouldn't have called said case an abuse of rights so much as just "extreme" it was one little thing (and a first offence), a slap on the wrist would have sufficed is all I meant by it. :::If Auron said it was OK to unblock him that's fine, you're reasoning didn't explain anything, so it looked like you unblocked him on a whim is all. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  23:14, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm quite sure you and I rarely have interactions at all. In fact, if all of these things I did bothered you so greatly, you have my MSN address. I've actually attempted conversation with you on several different occasions. Our interactions are so limited, in fact that I don't even know where you are from. You seem to have this problem with the manner I handle things (IE not being nice to people because idiots don't deserve patience, they deserve to be chastised when they're doing something intentionally wrong), along with the fact that you seem to be a tad bit care-bearish with your manner of admining. There needs to be those who strictly enforce policy and those who bend it. There also needs to be someone who will push things through and move towards the undesirable end that no one wants to see. If I'm an admin that everyone hates, so be it, I'm not here to be anyones friend. I lurk and I sit on MSN all of the time. I am always contacted via MSN and told there's a problem at PvX. Are you Phen? -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  23:20, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't, I accept that we don't converse much. I know you've attempted to talk to me on MSN, and others will tell you that I have very little conversational skills, so it's me who's at fault there, and I accept that. (I'm from the UK if you really want to know =p)
 * I don't want you to be under the impression that I'm thinking "he's doing things completely wrong and shouldn't be an admin" (except the perma instance, I'll explain in a min.), I'm providing these links because I think you could have handled them in a better manner, and i understand each admin has their own way of doing things, i just think in these cases you've been a bit rash/extreme is all.
 * again, this is our own styles coming into play, you'd rather just ban the user outright, where as I would rather say "stop doing that" first.
 * I'm fine with being a bit of a care-bear, and I agree there does need to be balance to the admin team, I just feel you've taken it a bit too far is all, I think you just need to think "ok well it's a first offence, so a few days should be ok".
 * I am indeed on MSN most of the time, if I'm on I'll either respond right away, or if I'm away (making food or what ever) i'll answer as soon as I'm back. I check PvX frequently enough, even if I don't always make an edit. I keep an eye out for vandals and on user talk pages for possible problems. If someone contacts me and says there's a problem i'll look into, and do what i see fit. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  23:42, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * sorry i forgot the perma incident (i'm going back and forth between conversation by various means, it's confusing keeping track where i am in a given one)
 * You said that the account was created solely for vandalism. The user was removing information and blanking pages, I agree that it was intentional (as opposed to a newbie who just sucked at editing). I still think a perma in that situation was wrong. A ban certainly, but the only time a first time ban should be a perma is if the user's a sock, the user could have come back after wards and started contributing positively, you have no way of determining that he would have come back and continued vandalising.
 * oh, I don't think I mentioned it up there, but the reason i never raised any of the issues with you when they happened was because I was unaware of them (these were just what I dug up earlier going through your logs). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:11, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's all gravy. I'm being called out because I'm an asshole, but I'm the same everywhere else. I love you all still. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  00:22, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * <3. Like I said, I don't want you demoted, I just think it'd be better if you toned it down a notch is all. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:26, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm disappointed KJ. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 23:21, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, for some reason I thought that you wanted him unbanned....not sure why. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">23:25, 9 March 2010
 * Big is always brutal and honest. Who is this Napalm?---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 23:28, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * If anything I was the complete opposite. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 23:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

You racist pigs.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş   02:43, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Also, to comment at something whatever that happened up there, Phen's conversational skills are seemingly pretty much related to giving direct answers to questions. He's more chatty in irc, but still not very ;o -- Chaos?  -- 13:27, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tend to be more talkative in a group of people compared to one on one (not really sure why =/). But i think we're straying from topic here =p <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  19:24, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Phen talks to me one on one plenty. He doesn't detail his life as much as some people might, but he is a very good person to spam links at. ···  Danny So Cute    21:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * can we take this to someone's talk page, i feel we're getting right off topic here =/ <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:16, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

As it stands, I wasn't going to defend myself, as I saw it to be quite pointless. But it's not in my nature to idle by while being badmouthed, so to speak. So...


 * 1) is of me posting my contributions and basically outlining what I do as an admin.
 * 2) would be me explaining to Gringo (who I was told to leave alone after the huge e-dramafest that everyone took part in, by Auron) why no one cares what he does/thinks to an extent, due to his troll-like actions and behavior.
 * 3) is again me pointing out what everything thinks but won't outwardly say.
 * 4) and  are admin discretion, amirite?
 * 5) On, Auron told me it was okay to unban Napalm, and he's well-aware of how PvX is ran. No need to elaborate to someone like him.
 * 6) ...lol you really have testicles posting this, considering you actually felt the need to add commentary after it on my page.
 * 7) was Gringo again caring too much about what I do around here while simultaneously making himself look...uninformed. I was using DSL that stayed connected 30% of the time (ask around, I'm sure there's witnesses). While I'd love to keep the site running optimally, my internet disagreed at the time.
 * 8) - I'm an asshole. I never feel the need to explain myself to a child. Yes, Gringo is a child in my eyes. That is not a personal attack, that's a fact-based opinion. I handle things in my own way.
 * 9) is you, Chaos, posting more of you causing unnecessary drama around PvX by being "passive" or whatever you call it.

As for Gringo's links, that was settled, well before this evaluation. Auron MSN'd me and told me to unban Gringo and to leave him alone, as I made it quite obvious I don't like him. In fact, Auron tells me all of the time when I do something wrong or dumb, most other admins (excusing Mr. Phen)do. And with Phen's links, he explained his reasoning above.

The mere fact that you'd post various links of me simply being an asshole, and nothing of me abusing my power or outright being a fucking douche (for no reason, ofc) means you've provided more of a reason for me to be an even bigger ass. It's understandable that people will refuse to allow me to be considered a site admin while they are around, due to me being very unfriendly at times, but who gives a shit? I do my duties around here as I see fit. Just because I don't do a lot of tech maintenance (ala Phen and gasp! KJ) or a lot of janitorial work (Toraen ftw); I like my position. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed not to say the two people who have actual gripes against me are two of the biggest trolls on PvX. But that's for another day. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  23:57, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * So the link i posted (in which you did abuse your admin tools) should just be ignored since it was dealt with in the past? I can see the logic if you're looking at just that one scenario, but the point of the review is to look at everything as a whole, and it's very relevant in this context, so we shouldn't just push it aside as you seem to be doing. Also, [it's just my opinion that] you seem to undervalue being an ass. I don't think people around here want assholes as admins (not an insult, you are self-proclaimed). I am not trying to speak for everyone, but most every admin we've ever had has been level-headed and can generally step back from a situation, which you appear incapable to do, as proven by your repeated incidents of "being very unfriendly". I'm not saying every admin has to be a carebear, I'm saying that being an ass all the time and then falling back on a title as an excuse for those actions isn't how admins used to be around here. Just my 2c. Gringo 00:29, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * As I've already stated, I'm not an ass all of the time, only when provoked, repeatedly. And I stepped back. I've basically ignored you since the little dramafest. And as I've stated, I not only unblocked you, but I'm sure I apologized. Your argument at this point is irrelevant. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  00:38, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * actually you didn't unblock me, you gave me 3 days and then phen+auron reduced it. and while i don't remember an apology (or give a shit about one), apologies don't matter, what matters is what you did in the first place. "oh i shot you in the face, oh don't send me to jail, i did apologize!" You apparantly want everyone to just ignore what you did because you apologized. i really don't follow. Gringo 00:43, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I banned you because I find you to be quite annoying. Either I unblocked or Phen/Auron reduced it. Whatever. You seem to only want to argue with me over the fact that I was contacted about it, and it was reduced then lifted. I'm not going to go into it, but as it stands, that still wouldn't be abuse. It's administrator discretion. In fact, several others have asked me why haven't you been perma-banned (not going to name names), and I merely replied with, "I don't know, I can't do/say anything related to that subject." As it stands, you don't like me, and I personally find you a hugely negative person. Whether its you picking arguments with Jake, or vice versa. Or insulting IPs. Or being Chaos-like and adding an unnecessary comment. You are still a huge troll in my eyes. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  00:46, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't twist the conversation onto me, this has nothing to do with me, good effort though. There is a very fine line between "admin discretion" and "admin abuse". the whole point of this process is to decide what is abuse and what isn't. so you saying "everything i do is admin discretion" is COMPLETELY pointless. If you want to defend yourself, don't just fall back on that, post some links of you doing some good shit, and stop saying "oh im too inactive to post those links". Instead of discrediting me, how about you try and prove me wrong. Gringo 00:50, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's twisted onto you mainly because you and the other troll are the only two (ironically the ones I was the hardest on) who seem to have problems with me the most. Also here, have fun. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  00:54, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Big, please don't provoke me, since I won't bother responding. Let Auron decide what's okay and what's not. -- Chaos?  -- 07:08, March 11, 2010 (UTC) Gringo did you request this site to begin with?---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 11:49, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Don't twist the conversation onto me, this has nothing to do with me"
 * are you daft? this is an admin review, its got nothing to do with reviewing me. Gringo 17:52, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

To be fair, Aidan is really annoying on MSN when he's whining, and the Jake vs. Aidan thing gets old quick. However, it was still a bad call on Big's part. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:30, 12 March 2010 , but policy says that admins shouldn't ban users who they are arguing with.....so, it kind of evens out. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:38, 12 March 2010
 * Big did say IF YOU FLAME ME. Taken out of context.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 21:35, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would say, "Good point, X!"
 * Why Big said it is quite irrelevant, the relevant part is that he said that he would gladly abuse admin power there. -- Chaos?  -- 21:42, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I would hope that why any admin makes any decision is always relevant. I'm not suggesting that that excuses Big's actions, but to completely throw out the background of any administrative decision seems pretty rash and ignorant. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:54, 12 March 2010
 * And he didn't get banned. And I didn't do anything. Arguments invalid. Chaos and Gringo seem to be the only people who even care about this entire eval. In general. Which is sad. Both have had multiple run-ins with me, and I've stepped on their e-toes more than once. The only actual time I banned Gringo, it was lifted. I banned Chaos once for continuing a ridiculous argument and being overly disruptive. I can claim to do a lot of things. Misery claims to abuse his power all of the time, and yet I don't see either of you two bitching about that. Go get hobbies away from PvXwiki tbh. You two seem to not care about what all of the admins are doing, only me. I don't really care either. Two trolls disliking me means I'm doing my job. Of course saying "I'll abuse my power" looks bad, but did I really do it? Nope. You both keep arguing around in circles. It's like having a wolf babysit lambs. You both want to pretend you care, but, like children typically do, you missed the big picture. If you all wanted me demoted so badly, you could have at least tricked me into doing some hardcore trolling like you two do. I've looked over the policies, and barring a bcrat/another sysop stepping in, I'm actually allowed to do anything I see fit. See PvX:ADMIN. Additionally, almost any of your conflicts or problems had with my manner of operating here on PvXwiki, can be outlined in PvX:CHILL, which leads to me enforcing PvX:NPA (a problem the both of my detractors have a HUGE problem with. Isn't that right Aidan? Black monkeys can spell by the way). As much clutter I see coming from the two of you, I could always throw PvX:DIS in your faces and ban you without even saying a word. But I opt away from banning anything that's not a sock/IP vandal, anymore at least. PvX:MAA, an oft-overlooked policy, is rarely followed here. Only when Aidan wants a build he likes bumped or doesn't agree with the votes. Or when Chaos just wants to have a post somewhere. The idea of mediating around here is bandwagoning, then flaming the one nay-sayer, then large amounts of stupid, pointless trolling. PvX:1RV is broken by several of you on an occasional basis, but I guess it's handled accordingly. When I banned Aidan for it, I had already been discussing what to do with Thunda with Auron (who subsequently perma-banned him), and I thought a 3 day ban for the both of them was wrong. Seeing that he was reverting something that was not NPA. Speaking of NPA, please remember, I can check archives too, to debunk your entire argument Gringo. But I won't. Not even necessary. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  22:19, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually a lot of what you just said is off the mark. You've banned me more then once (3 times) not once, you banned me about 5 minutes after that incident (i called you a nigger so you got an excuse). And i would absolutely love to see links of me violating pvx:dis. Why are you writing walls of texts just to say "they are children, don't listen to them". almost all of what you say is irrelevant, it doesn't matter who i posting links, all that matters is what you have done. Again, i want to say that falling back on pvx:admin seems useless, because the entire point of this process is to see if admins are abusing powers, and its up to the b-crats whether or not you are abusing, its not up to you. For someone that keeps saying "i dont care", you seem to care an awful lot. And who cares if you were talking to auron about thunda? why do we care about these completely off topic things? none of it helps prove that you aren't a worthless admin. Gringo 23:02, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * witch hunt---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 23:42, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not a witch hunt, it's just saint being an attention whore, masking his drama needs and attempt to lash out at KJ, big, and lau in valid process.--TahiriVeila 06:39, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Frosty
I feel fucking left out here --<font color="Black">Frosty  01:02, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're a dandy admin. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 01:08, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good word of choice. -- Chaos?  -- 07:05, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Frosty. -- Chaos?  -- 07:05, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Frosty is mean and calls me names. ···  Danny So Cute    07:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Like cute mc sexy pants!? --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 10:26, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sexual harrassment is not appropriate outside of the bedroom, dearest frostels. <3 ···  Danny So Cute    15:41, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Can't rape the willing---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 16:44, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Karate Jesus
I do have problems with KJ as an admin.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 15:23, March 9, 2010 (UTC) . Still it would of been a break in policy and if KJ so desired he could of and would of had a valid reason. Again this is one example of KJ not being neutral and abused his rank. HOWEVER he has done well in cleaning, organizing and preventing Drama (Bluetapeboy). I do think he wanted to flame him but he stood up strong. This is why I haven't posted anything on the page and only in the talk for I don't think it should be posted. TBH this is good to bring admins aware that there actions (lack there of) matter.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 22:55, March 9, 2010 (UTC) well not now but at the time you sure would have with the thought of "what an asshat take some time off"...tbh---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 23:03, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * This page is for discussing the links on the project page. If you have problems with me as an admin, provide links on the project page to examples of me abusing my sysop tools and allow the community to discuss them. This project isn't a popularity contest, so simply saying that you don't like someone is a waste. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:37, 9 March 2010
 * That might also be exactly why he said it here and not on the project page, since he doesn't really have actual links to show. I think I understand quite well what issues people have with KJ, and I actually don't think he's an admin by nature, but I don't have any issues with him myself. -- Chaos?  -- 15:41, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ and I have a bunch of links...I will post it when/if I am ready. I just wanted to say that I dislike KJ as an admin.  Not sure if I want to post links yet or not.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 19:22, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had the courage and opposed the tyranny of Big, you need to do the same thing and listen to your heart! -- Chaos?  -- 19:35, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is a review, so feel free to add whatever you like. Even if no action is taken to demote me, I could use a little constructive criticism on how I'm doing around here (besides what Auron tells me). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">19:54, 9 March 2010
 * KJ you are a problem. You do more good than bad though.  Just cause you baited me into a 1RV that I didn't fall for cause I didn't want to get banned for it cause it wasn't all that important.  I do think you do a lot of good here but you have your days is all.  I would like to see a more neutral outlook....again this is imo.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 20:32, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I don't remember what you're talking about. Could you link me? I'm working on some of our missing templates and PS is not cooperating, atm :/ <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:37, 9 March 2010
 * If you aren't too busy this should refresh your memory. And you never banned me.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 20:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, the 55 raptor farming thing? I wasn't trying to bait you into breaking policy. I honestly just thought that 55's couldn't raptor farm because of the interrupts (or at least, I assumed it would be pretty hard). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:50, 9 March 2010
 * And it is possible I thought maybe others who pinged me in game wanted to know how I did it....or that it is possible. IF I reverted you again I would be breaking policy and ban forth with....hence baiting---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 20:53, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * We very rarely ban for 1RV unless you're being an ass about the reverts ("OMG N00b i totally know it works even though you posted the reasons why which I'm ignoring, and I've never actually tested it" kind of thing, which it wasn't, someone would have just told you to stop and talk civilised to each other). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  21:02, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Big did "Ok Ok ladies"
 * Tbh, I don't think I would have banned you for that, especially since I was involved in it. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">23:00, 9 March 2010
 * "I don't think I would have"
 * I don't think I've ever done that with any user in the past, but feel free to prove me wrong. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">23:14, 9 March 2010
 * you would have if it was Wyn---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 23:21, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, I wouldn't have to. We have at least 2 admins (besides me) who would ban Wyn on sight. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">23:26, 9 March 2010

Misery
shouldn't be an admin---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 21:37, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, but it might be nice to provide a reason. <font color="#A55858">Misery  21:56, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * inactivity =/= bad admin. ···  Danny So Cute    01:59, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Is constant sexual harassment grounds for dismissal? Misles always refuses my sexual advances, his refusal to sleep with me is totally harassment! :( --TahiriVeila 03:24, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Best block log ever.--67.240.88.57 03:56, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * K cause I think you would be better off as a Bureaucrat.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 09:59, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * if you'd think he'd make a better BCrat just e-mail Auron/Wiz with "That Misery fellow looks like he'd make a good BCrat because of reason XYZ". <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  12:16, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also remember that our BCrats aren't the same as on GWW, our BCrats can still use all the sysop tools at their whim. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  12:37, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Misery often just posts subtle, intelligent or classy comments (I count the more random ass things below this, but my sense of humor is pretty off). Even if he's quite an amazing asshole towards mostly anyone, you should've noticed how well he takes care of admin duties. -- Chaos?  -- 10:34, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Phenaxkian
ok the "top block" was me extending Thunda's ban for socking. I'm not seeing an issue there, care to be more specific?

as for "der pwnzer" he admited Thunda used his account on times. That's socking as far as I'm concerned. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:58, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I did use his account on times but neither of us were banned before that month ban, for a situation that wasn't really socking. I don't understand why he was banned for a month a while after the original socking situation because you thought he was socking at the time. And as for Thunda the ban was 3 days which was no problem but you extended the ban to a month because you just thought he was socking when you had no proof. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.175.195.12 (talk &bull; contribs).
 * dont' forget to sign.
 * "neither of you were banned before that month ban"...thunda's block log (banned plenty of times before said month ban). Der pwnzer's block log a couple of times before hand.
 * The socking was the fact that der pwnzer admitted Thunda used his account. We then no longer have a means of knowing who's actually using the account, at best der pwnzer was telling the truth, they know each other, and Thunda occasionally edited from there (still against the rules because he can still manipulate the voting system, and evade his main accounts ban). At worst both accounts belonged to Thunda, in which case it's a sock. Either way it results in a perma.
 * The increasing to a 1 month ban was because of multiple reasons: if you look at Thunda's block log he'd be banned before...many, many times. I was being generous only giving him a few day bans when I did (multiple times) as opposed to incrementing the block length like we were supposed to.
 * Secondly between me blocking him and then extending his block to a month, I left him a message on his talk (see here). He was warned the next ban wouldn't be as brief as his others. later that day Der Pwnzer admits Thunda edits from the account (and I mentioned the consequences of above). Thus i deemed Thunda to be socking, and extended his ban as i would if any other user had done, but I made it a month because of his track record, and the fact I had warned him earlier in the day.
 * I've already given you the proof, Der Pwnzer admitted it, and Checkuser verified there had been edits from Thunda's IP.
 * Questions? <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  01:25, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was talking about socking bans before that month ban, not the various other bans, actually. I see your point about not knowing, and ok, I'll admit they both deserved a little ban for that. But they didn't manipulate the voting system and Der Pwnzer was someone elses account, whether Thunda had permission to use it or not, a perma is a bit harsh for that, especially since the socks happend a while before the incident. Additionally, in Thunda's month block statement, it was merely "extended for socking", you say there were other reasons, but why not include them? 71.175.195.12 01:31, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * There were no bans (by me at least) for socking before that extension to 1 month, so i'm not seeing an issue there =/. They might not have manipulated the voting system, but the possibility was there is all, that's the very reason we don't allow users to have multiple accounts. If it had been a case of Thunda was unbanned and Der Pwnzer was created after and let it slip Thunda used that account, we'd probably have juts left it at permaing the Der Pwnzer account and given Thunda a Slap on the wrist (depending on how much he'd be banned by this point). Like I explained above, there could only be 2 realistic outcomes given Der Pwnzer admitted to Thunda using that account.
 * Did i say there were multiple reasons for extending the block? I said I extended it for socking, and the reason that i extended it to 1 month was because of his track history (which any admin can see by looking at the block log). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  09:21, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Toraen
Is doing a fine job as an admin (I thought this page should at least hold 1 positive thing about someone :3) --<font face="Papyrus" color="black">tÜrae£xy 21:22, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Quick Question
I personally think that problems with admins don't always stem from what they don't do, as much as what they do do. Overlooking trolling or only ever banning people should be noted, so can we write as well as give links? And i've got exams this week, i'll spend some free time looking through contribs when i find it. Gringo 15:39, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you mean the other way around? As in some things can't be linked to. -- Chaos?  -- 15:41, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see any problem with that. However, you would need to provide links of the actual issues (for example, provide a link to the trolling so that users can check the contribs of the admins at that time). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:40, 9 March 2010
 * Not banning who you want them to ban isn't a particularly good reason to demote them. It's pretty hard to prove they're ignoring trolling either way - unless they're posting in that section or participating in the trolling themselves, it could easily be said that they were away from the wiki or involved in other projects at the time. I would prefer hard evidence - any sysop that deserves demotion should have plenty of shit linked, not just "he said she said" kind of evidence. - Auron 16:53, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * just a note, I know I've said it before, I'm sure other may have in various places as well: If you see an incident of NPA or (the bad kind of) trolling or anything banable, if you post it on the AN, one of us will do something because it's been brought to our attention. I know I've told you this multiple times =/. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  17:05, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * To add a caveat to what Phen just said, when posting on the AN links help. Just saying things like, "Jake has broken policy three times and not been banned" is not exactly helpful. But, as a user, it would really help us if you post those kinds of things on the AN. I'm gone half of most days at work, so I don't catch a lot of the drama as it actually happens. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:28, 9 March 2010
 * hmm @auron, i understand that proving they are looking the other way is difficult, but can we admit that the admin staff for the most part is halfhearted about banning trolls? it took forever for thunda to be banned, and 100% of his posts were trolls, and now danny is the same way and it's they all look past it. my point was mostly just that a LOT of trolling goes on around here, and almost none of it has consequences, mostly because it has integrated into the culture if pvx (despite the policies), and that is one of the biggest reasons i am unhappy with the admin staff as a whole (inb4 flames, im talking about nonstop trolls [most notably the danny circlejerk who add nothing to the site]). Gringo 20:42, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically, aren't you the one trolling right now? ···  Danny So Cute    20:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically I think he is baiting.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 20:50, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * technically i think you should all hop on my dick asap -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 20:55, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Baiting and trolling are more or less the same thing, actually. They both come from the fishing terminology. ···  Danny So Cute    21:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

"...and in order to appease certain members of the public..."
Isn't it just the one?... <div style="width:150px;background-color:#7392bf;text-align:center;color:white;display:inline-block;font-family:palatino linotype;font-weight:100;"> Ben So Honest 00:37, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * it's one user that requested it, it doesn't mean there was just one that wanted it. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:38, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * However, if you know Auron, then yea....that statement was targeted at just one person. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">00:41, 10 March 2010

GOD I FUCKING HATE YOU ALL this collective indulgence of saint's bullshit is getting real boring real fast--TahiriVeila 00:45, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * indulgence of bullshit? i asked for a policy to be used, at which auron agreed and continued the process. what are you missing here? Gringo 01:43, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I brought it to Auron's attention and he posted it. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  01:49, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * and the price of fish is..5 dolla! Gringo 01:51, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep your fish....they are rotten and they stink---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 02:11, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

I don't actually think people mind that we're doing this. It comes to use. -- Chaos?  -- 10:39, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't mind the process. It's fine to do it, although I don't think it's necessary at this time. My problem is that the the project was undertaken because of an attempt by Saint to misuse a useful policy/function on the wiki in order to dramawhore and lash out at KJ, Big, Lau, and other people he doesn't get along with.--TahiriVeila 06:43, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * To me it'd seem like the only one he has an actual issue with is Big. You're also dramawhoring about his dramawhoring; looking at the wall of text above, I don't think anyone needs to be told that someone is a dramawhore. :> -- Chaos?  -- 08:27, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're such a fucking dramawhore, Dandy. ···  Danny So Cute    08:49, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * My god, you're right. -- Chaos?  -- 08:53, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * to be honest, not for a lack of trying against me and KJ. though the best he could come up for me was a link two months before I became admin even. - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 10:13, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was surprised he didn't revert you, but you're very true about the irrelevancy of the comment. I myself wouldn't even care if you said that now. -- Chaos?  -- 10:42, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * not for lack of trying? all i said about you was that i think youre a fine admin but we don't need you at the moment. and i dont care who i find a link on, i'm gonna post it regardless of who it is, you or frosty or whoever else. Gringo 17:37, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * i made the headings link to our logs and conts. to make it easier for you to find out shit we're doing wrong (big hint: most of the shit Auron and Wiz. will care about are in the logs, that's the easiest way to show "abuses of power" such as "Phen deleted Main Page: LOLOLOLOLOLOL" as opposed to a cont "I'm a delete the main page -- Phen") <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  19:27, March 13, 2010 (UTC)