User talk:Jaigoda/Builds/AP Spike Support

This is just another dupe of Discordcaller... Ju ze  06:39, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually useful outside of discord, believe it or not. You get to use EVAS, FH, and lots of other OP skills, on every single foe you see. It's especially useful in H/H on characters that are otherwise somewhat underpowered in damage, such as Monks, Ele's, and to a lesser extent Necro's. -- Jai  15:16, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Imo this site needs a page dedicated to the this. Ppl always say it's just a discord caller, but discord caller still does not have it's own page. Like Jai said, it's useful outside of discordway aswell. Smity 16:21, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Either way, I'm going to need some fairly major help on filling out the bars. I can probably do Monk, Sin, Necro, maybe Derv and Para. Also, Warrior will probably be out of the question considering the 2 pips or regen and stuff. That still leave Ranger, Mesmer, Rit, and Ele, though Rits are so rediculously good anyway (and already have Soul Twisting and Rit Lord for recharging spirits) it might not be practical to add one for them. -- Jai  16:35, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * As another argument for this, we already have AP bars for Mesmer, Ele, Sin, Monk, and Necro, so if nothing else this could be a merge of those builds. The Mesmer and Necro bars especially would easily merge into this. -- Jai  18:48, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just a discord caller you dumb shit, we've been over this half a dozen times before. We don't store discord callers.--TahiriVeila 19:21, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's stupid that such a common build as AP spiker doesn't have it's own page yet. Smity 19:25, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The AP bars stored already are standalone builds. The bar on this page isn't a standalone bar, and merging all of the current AP bars onto one page is unnecessary and messy. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 19:26, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure there is only one AP spike build on this sight that is anywhere close to what this is (mesmer version). All the other AP builds are nothing like this. Smity 19:31, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2* 3**
 * *with one skill change you could easily use it.
 * **nothing uses critical strikes so you could go Sin secondary.
 * That's just a quick look, but they're more specific builds, thus more usefull than this "Build" (which is closer to a guide). Make one for each profession (separate pages) if you're that bothered, or make this more viable as a generic bar (i.e. not have over half the bar as "optional").  ~ PheNaxKian talk  20:03, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The thing is, none of those are the basic AP assasin support finish him spiker that this build is, hence why I said there was one other build page with a similiar bar. I am assuming this bar would never encompass the 3 builds you linked to since they are NOT WHAT THIS BUILD IS.  Yes, this is a "discord caller", but it is also a common build used in a variety of situations.  It is about time it had it's own page. Smity 20:18, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * number 1 has an optional for either EVAS or FH. 3 variant for FH.
 * you have a "build" with 3 skills...you're trying to make a guide into a build, you're asking people to vett 3 skills =/  ~ PheNaxKian talk  20:42, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Both of the places which feature "guides" for AP Spiker are extremely lacking and vague. Imo this build will be a much better guide, especially since it will be found in the builds section which is where ppl look for builds anyways.  The way it is set up now, there are 3 central skills to the build, but each profession has it's own choices to finish the rest of the bar.  Would it be better if there were a suggested bar for each profession? Smity 21:20, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * it's not even a build though! it shouldn't be in the build name space because it's a guide! =/  ~ PheNaxKian talk  21:33, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's also not finished yet. I was going to add actual builds for each prof. It's just a fairly large amount of stuff to figure out and write up, and I'm trying to abuse the faction weekend as much as I can at the same time.
 * But the main reason why I don't want to make it a guide is because I know no one reads them. This is actually fairly common in PvE, so IMO, it should at least be in buildspace so people can actually find it. -- Jai  00:32, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't realistically have someone vett a page that consists of 10 completely separate builds. I'm going to put this simply, the choices are:
 * A single bar with the odd variant for each profession (note: odd, not half the bar. so 2 skills maybe 3 at a push)
 * turn it into a guide. I don't give a shit if you don't think nobody reads them, that's what they're there for.
 * It gets WELLed/I delete it.
 * And I assure you, to me they take just as much effort as each other, so i don't care which.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  17:37, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh also:


 * 1) Portal:Player versus Environment ‎(116984)
 * 2) Portal:Speed Clears ‎(61758)
 * 3) Portal:Random Arenas ‎(45067)
 * 4) Portal:Alliance Battles ‎(35562)
 * 5) Portal:Guides ‎(32664)
 * 6) Portal:Heroes' Ascent ‎(30901)
 * 7) Portal:Guild Battles ‎(15794)
 * 8) Portal:Codex Arena ‎(8586)
 * page view statistics of the guide portals. It certainly seems like PvE is getting a decent amount of traffic (i.e. where this would end up).  ~ PheNaxKian talk  17:42, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

rephrasing what phen said: -- Relyk  talk  23:25, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) If this is a build page, we have ap builds for casters. If there's an ap build for a certain profession, it needs an individual page, not put into a comprehensive article (guide).
 * 2) If this is a guide, then it needs to be moved. No one except jai cares if people see the page there (which phen noted they probably will).
 * 3) ap caller is shit without discord compared to other builds, hence welling it. There shouldn't be a guide in the first place for a generic ap spiker.


 * AP caller is actually the best bulld that half the professions in he game can run. If it wasn't for the massive amount of area and hero setup specific variants I might consider making an ap build for each profession, but atm the articles would be too cluttered and long to make sense. The only real way to do this would be a guide, but the guide page would be a complete mess and probably be almost unreadable. Life   Guardian  23:54, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * mostly saying ap->ymlad->evas->fh is bad on its own. It's fine if you're making a build for each profession, but then that means this page should be deleted.-- Relyk  talk  00:02, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Reylk, STFU. you obviously don't know what your Talking about and you havent Ran an AP Caller as a Build for more than 5 minutes. an AP Caller on its own can be extremely Powerful in certain Situations, But ofc you dont bring AP-EVAS-YMLaD!-FH! and 4 optional slots. you use them. OMG! YOU ACTUALLY PUT SKILLS IN TEH OPTIONAL SLOTS!--Bluetapeboy 04:03, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

also @Jai, Phen is right, its best to make an AP Caller Guide and list Skills that would be Ideal for the optionals--Bluetapeboy 04:05, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've been figuring as much since he said that a while ago. I've just been too lazy to edit the page. I'm just going to take this page and move it to guidespace, because there's already a decent amount of info here. -- Jai  04:18, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except the bars as listed make me facepalm. fix plox. Life   Guardian  04:21, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought those up in like two minutes. I was trying to give an idea on how the format would be. Though just for reference, what specifically needs to be fixed? Also, the page is still protected, so I can't move it. Can someone fix that? -- Jai  04:23, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm, all of them. Life   Guardian  04:26, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * The mesmer and necro are directly copied from builds in Great. The only other one is the Ele, which I completely just theorycrafted. The rest is stuff that Smity put in. -- Jai  04:29, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know they're copied from great. The others, though, suck. This will almost never work as a guide. There's too many options. Life   Guardian  04:33, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It'll definitely take some work, yeah... If nothing else, I'd at least like to see an AP bar for Monk (one focused more on damage than healing) simply because it is a lot easier to use with H/H. If henchies don't have a called target, they aren't much better than headless chickens. There's already AP bars for Mes, Necro, and Ele, which are definitely the next best candidates for AP. -- Jai  04:42, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Problem is that a AP monk isn't exactly good...We might as well keep a dagger and scythe monk while we're at it because they'd be just as effective. Life   Guardian  04:47, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Plz see Smiting Prayers. Monks have amazing abilities with AP due to skills like spear of light and castigation signet. Smity 04:49, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Srs, AP monk is viable just because other options suck, but its still bad. Life   Guardian  04:51, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ Unless you're decent enough to heal, prot, and call at the same time, it's much easier to run an offensive build as monk. At which point you're pretty much stuck with either AP or spirit spam. -- Jai  04:54, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually scythe/daggers would probably be > AP. Spiritspam might be better, im not sure. Life   Guardian  04:57, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you say so, then write it up for me please. I just want a build here that doesn't suck when using H/H. But anyway, how would you manage energy with daggers? -- Jai  05:02, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's still like....bad though...also.

Life  Guardian  05:08, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I posted a monk spiker build b4 which used AP and front lined and ya'll laughed at me. Get's both strikes off in one kd for a huge armor ignoring unblockable spike.

Smity 05:16, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah thats really bad. Life   Guardian  08:13, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

this page is just a bunch of retardation-- Relyk  talk  09:16, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

just because i saw it in somewheres post, the page is only edit protected, it can still be moved by anyone.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  09:58, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Life, ur right, it is soo much worse than a monk using daggers... Smity 14:45, August 17, 2010 (UTC)