Archive talk:Team - GvG Paragon Balanced

Current meta. It needs to be on here. --Tab  Moo  07:24, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Offensive = Cruel Spear and E-surge imo. Railin 07:34, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Both are in the variants. The point is that taking a para over bsurge is more offensive, and the main bars are the ones most commonly run. --Tab  Moo  07:35, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Eh if u wanna go offensive go with 3 warrior frontline + tainted + buffagon himynameisbobbyjoe 08:55, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Offensive Balanced.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  08:57, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Cruel spear makes your flagger go E/Mo, since you do need a party heal. Then it means you have no splinter. No splinter = you must be DF gud and rape em before VoD, or you can type /resign when VoD comes. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  09:15, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Needs less HEV, it's baed. Glyph of energy makes you also take mirror btw, which is gud when you have 4 physicals. Tab just fails at mesmer builds. - Unexist  09:17, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * HEV is one of the best mesmer elites in the game, especially with four melee. Blowing hexes up for hundreds of AoE damage in the enemy's face can only be a good thing. If you want to sacrifice that for energy management, go ahead, but don't pretend for a second that HEV is bad. - Auron 09:20, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Look at the metagame. 1 of 20 teams take WT snarers. Hev iz gud when everyone runs hexes(which they don't), so i'd just rather keep it tournament-only(where you know what team runs WT snarers and which don't). Glyph of energy gale mesmer + hammah = leet synergy. -  [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  09:31, 17 January 2008 (EST)

So this excellent build uses only 7 characters on the team? That's quite special. Maybe they should nerf it (they have? o ok).

SoR Para
Needs less ballad of restoration and more mending refrain.--Goldenstar 10:03, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * It's in variants. --Tab  Moo  10:10, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Doesn't every smart guild under the sun run cruel or expell or almost anything else over this now that it has a 30sec recharge. Seems like this got put up right when it stopped getting run lol.I Heal If U Shutup 17:02, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Hammer bash
Switch hammer bash for heavy blow? --Luuck 10:27, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * No. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  10:51, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * To elaborate, Heavy is both vunerable to condition removal and means you cant target swap in your chain if you need to. --Tab  Moo  11:03, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Swap chains ftw. Funny trick: bull's one, dev hammer the other and hammer bash the last one if they're chunked up! lolol. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  04:36, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Paras
Is lame to me :(, they are to strong, but then again this builds works... but paras are lame. Fishy  Moo <font color="Grey">oo  10:41, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * I herd fishes and mudkips ware lame tooo. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  10:52, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * wtf is mudkip [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 11:26, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * [[Image:Mudkip.jpg]]--<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:34, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * .....i dont get it [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 11:47, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Mudkip is leetsauce--Goldenstar 11:49, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Can someone seriously explain why its mudkips...How did that even start cuz I don't have the slightest idea. Oh and explain the lack of infuse health. I know it shouldn't be in there, but whats the reason I never see it.--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 12:36, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * WoH catches spikes well enough. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  12:38, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * 3/4 cast time. Oh and Shouldn't SB be on the RC monk and Prot spirit on the WoH monk since the RC monk has more investment in Prot?--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 12:39, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * 3/4 is fast enough with 40/40 heal and RoF first. SB spec doesn't really matter past 8+1, it's a case of getting the two bars working well together. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  12:42, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * I get the WoH thing now thx, but with SB, doesn't that mean the WoH has two spike stoppers and the RC only has RoF to stop it? Oh right and...Mudkipz?--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 12:47, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * No. SB is used before a spike, you only WoH if you don't manage to prot it. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  12:49, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Ah ok duh. Ok Next question: Mudkipz?--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 12:53, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Yes. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  12:54, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * So I herd u liek Mudkipz? Started on 4-Chan, I believe. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  12:55, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * 4-Chan?EDIT: Google Ftw. --[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 12:56, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * [].<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 21:32, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * Lol greatest story ever--[[Image:Assassin-icon.png|20px]] The Gates Assassin 10:50, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * murk loar. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:54, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * WoH used as an anti-spike? Are you joking?  You use Prot Spirit & RoF as your spike catch (your RC should SB/Guardian as needed); you use WOH on the target NOT to catch the spike but to heal it up AFTER the spike (since a lot of damage should have gone through prots if the other team has at least half a brain).  If you rely on the half cast from 40/40 to make your WoH into an infuse I will  laugh as team members fall to the ground quickly. Lutz 02:26, 14 February 2008 (EST)
 * Preprot and nothing dies, WoH to get the health back.--[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  22:15, 16 February 2008 (EST)

RUnner
Should have Pious Haste <-- Instead of Assassin Skill's, Allowing for Another Skill. <font color="Blue">Exper <font color="Blue">ienced 21:26, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Assassin Runner ownz face, it can be protted while you run in and cap, which is nothing that the rt/d can say.  Beast 194  (<font color="Black">talk ) 21:39, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Rt/D Can maintain a 33% Speed Boost. Which is Better. Although Rt/A can Prot Stance, Rt/D allows for Extra spot which can be used for Prot. <font color="Blue">Exper <font color="Blue">ienced 22:00, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * And can be p0wned by Water Trident. Bull's, Shock, ect since you can't aura him. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  07:20, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * dash is better. and dark esc makes you not die.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 12:28, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * Both r gud tbh, and Rt/D is hellalot faster, weapon of shadows give you invincistatus for 9 seconds too. Just do one and keep the other in variants is fine. Both r leet. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  13:44, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * Rt/D can't run at the flag because Pious will remove Aura, SB, PS, etc.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƴ ɖɩđđɭɘş  [[Image:Grinshpon blinky cake.gif|19px]] 09:53, 20 January 2008 (EST)

Midline
[SoaP] eliminated the cripshot in favor of a water trident with WaM, and, i'm assuming, hex breaker(/me). Also for reference, their mesmer had esurge, and used inspire, and...had chaos gauntlets (<3). Their para used mending refrain. Also, they had a godawful coward warrior. it made my head hurt. 09:48, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * lol Coward warrior. I wonder how many more will pop up. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  09:51, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * That's defence ball and a totally different build. Rangers are vital in offensive play. Also Coward is hawt. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  09:52, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * How is that in anyway defence ball? A water trident with wam instead of a cripshot on otherwise identical bars is that huge a difference? n tab, coward is not hawt when they were running pious haste on it with a sword. and, though the idea of pious assault(melee attack)+body blow to make a sword-coward warrior not get rickrolled by rc has been talked about, they were running sever gash.[[Image:Dark0805sig2.PNG]] 20:18, 20 January 2008 (EST)

Cruel vs SoR
I think the cruel spear variant should be standard. If your monks are good, then with 2 monks and the rit(+defensive support through snares/interrupts) should be sufficent. The para would seem to contribute more as cruel spear, with more dmg through attacks and burning+crits and MoD for even more offense.Bob fregman 10:43, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * SoR is the standard atm. You can't keep up with any real pressure with Kaolai as the only party heal. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  10:45, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * Granted, but i think at least thing MoD ought to be made standard. A build with 4 physicals and only 1 enchantment removal is gonna be weak.  MoD should at least be taken to help deal with aegis.Bob fregman 10:49, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * With a build like this it's expected that you use dshot and pleak to deal with Aegis rather than Mirroring it. At the moment, the main bars are simply the meta, with other options as variants. Most teams collapse way too easily with this build once you take out the defensive stuff from the para's bar. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  10:51, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * I can accept that. I still feel that bringing MoD is a good idea, particularly since it doesnt really take that much away from the defense and interrupts arent always reliable(Bsurge or shields up preventing dshot, pleak on cd or otherwise unavailable).  Obviously, if aegis was always gonna be interrupted, nobody would bring aegis.  Still, meta is meta.Bob fregman 10:58, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * My preference is Cruel Spear with /Me, but as PvX is primariy a record of meta builds when it comes to things like this, and as you can't assume a well organised team is available to all users, I thought it would be best to go with /W.--[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  11:05, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * That's fine, we'll just go with what's meta.Bob fregman 11:09, 20 January 2008 (EST)

With the new update, (i'm assuming the new npc pathing has made splinter less win), would a more damage minded cruel spear with a woh/buffed HP runner be good? Or would dropping the para for an HP mind blast ala legoway be acceptable? --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 09:05, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Or, just switch the rit to /A for Dash, and Dark Escape if you can squeeze it in, or /E for Storm Djinn's. 76.89.84.136 20:21, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Less theory-craft, more win. --<font color="Black">Readem 01:57, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Dev Hammer
Most people run Magehunter's over it. Change it to Magehunter's Hammer. -- Guild of  Deals  19:00, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yep, sounds good. Magehunter > Me.--[[Image:GatessMoebius Strike Icon.jpg|20px]]<font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva">Assassin  23:38, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Most people now run Dev Hammer over Magehunter's again since the nerf. Keep it as is.  However, needs a new Paragon.  Gaze Of Balthazar 23:57, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Paragon
Bsurge>SoR paragon Whiteboy 16:12, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Rename
I'm renaming this to more accurately describe the build, and so that I can submit a new build that fits the name. --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  05:53, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

Suggestions
I'd drop the Mesmer and run a midline of :

Double Cruel Spear is much more aggressive. Mending Refrain is even better with more shouts/chants. You still get an interrupt on someone other than Ranger. Anthem of Flame/"Go for the Eyes!" is much better with a total of 5 of your guys always attacking. "Never Surrender!" is great for relieving pressure.

With so little enchantment removal (even with Shatter), Devastating Hammer might be better off as Magehunter's Smash or even a swap to Rending Axe.

Recuperation should replace Dark Escape on the runner for more Pressure relief.

Aura of Stability should really be on the RC in place of Gift. Then you can spec out of Healing and into Divine Favor. Naturally, fill the slot on the WoH with Infuse, and I'd also suggest replacing his RoF with Patient Spirit, as more people are seeing it's usefulness.

Of course, a lot of this is personal preference, but I really do think the team would be better off with that second Paragon. 68.190.116.232 12:09, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
 * That isnt balanced. Mesmers ownnn. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 12:14, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I wasn't arguing whether or not Mesmers own. They do in a lot of teams, and a lot of my teams include them, but I personally think a second Paragon would be BETTER in this setup. Also, I wasn't aware that part of the definition of a balanced team is the inclusion of a Mesmer. As far as I'm concerned, if the team has 2 non-monk members that can split at any time along with the Runner, while leaving at the stand 1 frontline, 2 midline, and 2 backline, it's Balanced. 68.190.116.232 12:25, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Nothing with more than 1 paragon is balanced. Same as nothing with a necro is balanced (Cept in HA, you're allowed 1 there) &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 12:29, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

Name
Why is it called GvG Paragon Balanced with only one Paragon? Also, Anthem of Flame can help maintain Mending Refrain and Aggressive Refrain, if need be. -Mike 09:35, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Because it's standard balanced with a paragon over a bsurge. The name 'GvG Balanced' is already taken, so this is the next best thing. Anthem isn't needed with SoR. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  09:37, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

The Name
is bad. Paragons are overpowered, so you can't call it balanced! God box   15:07, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 * GvG Paragon Imbalanced? =P -Mike 16:08, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Your Dumb.I Heal If U Shutup 23:44, 15 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Paragons overpowered? Nice joke. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  02:14, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * They were slightly OP in PvP (and completely Imbalanced in PvE), which is the reason for all those harsh nerfs. Now, they're balanced. >.> -Mike 07:19, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Paragons are far from overpowered, they're just offensive fillups. Cruel spear adds a high amount of DW(for what I've seen, vicious + cruel makes the dps so much higher), as well as mirrior and preturn adds a offensive theme. The DPS and GFTE itself, are meh and inferior to a 3th warrior. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  15:24, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Mesmer
I'd suggest taking disortion on him, because of the following reasons: —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  08:46, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You can pretty much position yourself anywhere on the map, that includes overextending for way-in-the-back snare ele's and/or monks(big extra pressure)(they cast aegis way in the back).
 * Shame/Diversion can't be interupted by the ranger(gives big extra pressure).
 * You're offensive balanced; that means the thing that makes your offense rape hard is your mesmer. Normally mesmers are already a lol-spike target, but against this you just take the mesmer down and the pressure is pretty much halved. Main damage in GvG is physical, and disortion protects you from that.
 * Spikes.
 * For what skill? God  box    09:11, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Meta and Nurfs/Buff
Long time since this was submited. Noone runs Para almost exept on Burning, Crippshot is also never used (almost) and tbh this is just a bad balance, archive? Massive  05:50, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Snare mesmers being meta doesn't suddenly make everything else bad. P/R/Me midline is still great if you want to pressure. -- Image:Tab  Piplup  .jpg  06:00, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

Antihex
Should the paragon or mesmer get inspired hex for the me/e meta or no? --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 10:20, 24 October 2008 (EDT)