Build talk:W/A PvP Backbreaker Daggers

Oh wow. Next step in the nerfing line is Backbreaker disabling all non-hammar skills. -- Chaos?  -- 21:10, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

I played this today, except I used no hammer mastery and Enraging Charge. People just went like: "WTF!?" It was so awesome, I believe I came. --Brandnew 21:26, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can"t believe that it works but it does, pure ownage :o --tÜrae£xy 21:33, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just tried this out. It was great; really nice being able to play with my BB sin again.


 * How much damage does this spike do by the way? Is it on par with the old BB sin build because with out crit strikes Twisting Fangs does 18 less damage and the chance of crits is lower but is this negated by the fact that you don't suffer the -25% weapon base damage (I know that dagger base damage is pathetically weak but it still makes a difference)?


 * Anet needs to learn why these builds are effective in a team. Spirit way. Nerf spirits and problems might disappear. Might make Twisting Fangs 1 sec DW at 0 crits? -- Pinkeyflower 13:12, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

for the brave --Frosty  14:35, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Full strength makes you do more damage in the long run anyway, and gives you 4 adr echarge, I vote full str. --Brandnew 14:57, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Go full strength! Hammer isnt even needed :p &#8212; Forget  Bible.gif 01:41, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Everyone knows you never go full retard. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 01:49, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't remember when JJ's image took such hard blows. -- Chaos?  -- 06:29, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I put that there just to annoy people and zyke lol? &#8212; Forget  Bible.gif 20:46, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's probably the motivation behind all retarded thing said. No, wait. Badness. -- Chaos?  -- 20:54, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Still gonna ask it.. where is the energy? Zealous daggers only?:SSebv2727 21:34, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * 33% ias with zealous daggers = tons of energy not to mention falling lotus. --Smity the Smith  21:37, March 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Falling Lotus Strike makes sinspikes free. -- Chaos?  -- 21:50, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

so...wastrel's collapse + stonefist insignia is similar but less damage? not asking about viability just if it's similar ryuwizard98 02:44, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess it would be, but 20 recharge is bad, considering with a hammer elite you can use different chain inbetween your main spike. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 02:50, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * yeah this is true ryuwizard98 17:22, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

well Considering the fact that this chain charges the KD you can spam

KD, Flail, Chain, KD which is pretty sick. To use this to full potential I suggest macros for Cancel stance weapon switches, its pretty button intensive, and easy to finger fumble doing it the old fasion way, plus flail's activation just before a weapon swap crys for computer speed, over human fingers.


 * Please sign comments. Also, you don't need macros or what not to use this build. If you can't use Flail after BB then this build is not for you. Weapon swapping is easy. Assassin chains are just 1-2-3-4-5 or in this case 3-4-5-6. Just roll you face over the keyboard and this should work. -- Pinkeyflower 09:39, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...using flail after BB makes you incapable of using it instantly, makeing your spike slower, you know? Brandnew 11:34, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Use Flail before Backbreaker means you have to hit your target before BB, which means they can just run away ^o^ --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 13:03, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed a small grammar--72.189.80.199 14:01, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * . Beautiful. -- Chaos?  -- 09:10, March 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, the spike would be exactly the same in terms of speed as the pre-update BB sin if you used flurry after BB. As a stance Flail can be activated while you weapon swap so there is no difference. -- Pinkeyflower 06:24, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean you'd lose 1 adrenaline so you need to autoattack once, or am I missing something?--Brandnew 09:57, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh wait, BB'd make you regain one. I'm so funny. --Brandnew 09:59, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why so much points in hammer mastery? douse it really matter if you deal +11 or +16 dmg with one skill? I'd say take points off hammer mastery to 9 and put it into strength Revolutionen 13:11, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I'm not sure really, I think because it's a spike the +16 armour ignoring damage and the increase in base hammer damage is more useful than extra strength. The dagger's base damage is so pathetic that +3% extra AP won't do much extra damage damage. -- Pinkeyflower 12:08, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I changed the Strength to 10+1+1 and Hammer Mastery to 8+1. My reason is that +4 damage (hammer mastery change from 9 to 12) is not as beneficial as +AP.--71.139.4.108 05:23, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I totally agree, but dont really think the hammer is that important at all tho... Sharky  talk  05:29, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * While I understand where you're coming from think about it. You have 12% AP for the dagger's base damage which is 7-17. Just assume that you always hit 12, and that your target has 60 AL. 12% AP means your target has ~53 AL against your attacks. This equates to a 1.129 multiplier for your base damage. That means around 13.54 damage from daggers (not sure if rounded up or down in game). With 9% AP your damage would be around 13 damage so over 6 attacks assuming all things are equal you would do +6 damage from daggers by chaning from 9 to 12 Strength. However, this is contrasted by losing +4 armour-ignoring damage from Backbreaker, and lower normal damage from the hammer swing itself. Of course this assumes you have low, fixed damage but even if you kept hitting 17 consistently the difference between 12% and 9% AP would be negligible.


 * This loss of armour-ignoring damage and lower hammer damage (albeit for one swing) outweighs the gains of an extra 6 or so damage from your daggers so 12 Hammer Mastery is more beneficial than 12 Strength. Also, remember this is a spike. You want to do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible. Strength would be a good investment in the long run, but this build only cares about the short run. -- Pinkeyflower 13:08, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ Only idiots take strength, since strength only affects base dagger damage. Which is shitty and barely contributes to the spike.--TahiriVeila 17:41, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly, did the OP of this section realise that bonus damage from skills is armour-ignoring and hence AP would only apply to base dagger damage? -- Pinkeyflower 22:36, April 05, 2010 (UTC)

Optionals
This sounds ridiculous but I use this: TF out, DB in, makes energy easier and more spam. Dash out and Counter Blow in. Counter blow? Yes, counter blow! I use this in RA and it's a freaking linebacking machine with the hughest dps you could ever imagine!Masterbow 09:11, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * no ims isn't gonna be popular. I prefer rush over dash however --Smity the Smith  22:05, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * TF>DB because DW is better than +80 dmg. Again, people fail to see the point of this build. It's to spike not perform like a conventional warrior. The bar is fine as it is.
 * deep wound is only better if the target dies during the 5 seconds its up. Gringo 02:56, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's the whole effing point of the build and they should anyway. -- Pinkeyflower 10:11, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just say "fucking", you're on PvX now. Even more preferably, don't say it at all, it's ill chosen in that context.
 * Also, BB spikes are ridiculously easy to catch, I can alt-tab from MSN and catch a BB spike and get back on MSN while still being nowhere close, and my comp is terrible as hell. You can be quite happy just for landing the whole spike since it's a cute shit-ton of damage coming right up the target's rectum. Point is, that the specific point isn't to always land a kill ;p -- Chaos?  -- 21:51, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is like the why not use Falling Spider Strike after TF because it covers the DW in the original BB sin debate. And most people countered with there's no point covering it because the target should explode. I'm not saying that BB is very hard to counter. But if you don't land a kill or something very close to a kill you've wasted your bar because you can't do anything else with the bar. In that respect, I find that TF>DB. Also, a lot of monks are just bad in RA; you use this on them and they don't even activate their blocking stances. -- Pinkeyflower 05:14, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bringing DB also lessens the damage of the "mini-spike" falling spider->blades of steel. TF's 5 seconds of bleeding cause an additional 30 health loss plus the healing reduction from deepwound reduces the amount foe is healed for, which can also be thought of as "damage". Overall I'de say TF has just as much pressure if not more than DB. --Smity the Smith  06:18, June 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you've successfully landed your whole chain you can't say that your build is wasted, which is what I was trying to say above. -- ςοάχ? -- 10:13, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's true but as I've said this build is designed to kill things because it can't do anything else aside from tickling your target with your daggers. If you're not killing something or making something very close to dead (~10 health), even if you land your bar then aren't you wasting your bar instead of striking at a more opportune moment? Of course this is all conditional and sort of off-topic over the original DB>TF post. -- Pinkeyflower 15:31, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Back to topic then, in opportune situations, the possible small advantages of DB don't really compensate for losing out on dw and that. Crushing Blow. Nowait. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 16:10, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Dance of the fairy princess
They should change some of the animations because when you use this you look like you're trying to audition for the Nutcracker -- Pinkeyflower 15:35, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol, totally agree --Smity the Smith 16:11, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Erfshakur+Deathblossom variant? ;D Ocirne23 11:37, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * see above chat section for why death blossom isn't great. Erfshaker maybe though since you don't need a 4 second kd to pull off the chain. --Smity the Smith  18:42, July 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Erfshakur+DB is all about the aoe, for spiking BB+twisting fangs is clearly superior. But if you were to bring DB then go with Erfshakur as well.. but thats just my 2 cents.. Ocirne23 22:05, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Firstly, start a new section if what you're posting is irrelevant to the section you're posting in. On topic now, I don't see any need for the AoE damage which is a mere forty. Earth Shaker only damages your target not KD'ed foes. Of course some people do bring Earth Shaker in HA but for a solo build in say RA you have a low chance of landing Earth Shaker on more than one foe, in which case you may as well take the build posted by Frosty near the beginning of this talk page. -- Pinkeyflower 12:13, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

No longer Meta
Its not meta anymore in CM/AB. Takes to long to build adrenaline and you get tons of prot/smite monks (RoJ)No u 01:45, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * CM/AB aren't PvP. they're PvE with teams.--TahiriVeila 03:58, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Meta for HA. Removing PvE tags.-- Amor  [[Image:Accelerated_Growth.jpg|19px]] 04:14, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Meek Shall Inherent Flux
Warriors bring Hammer bash instead of BB. Should we add this? thanks.  Maciej  Talk  17:58, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it worth it not having BB? You get more domages though. Either way, it could end up under a trivia section or so after the flux. Miharo 19:14, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * isn't IAS needed for Falling Lotus on a 3s kd? Flail -> extra hit -> Hammer Bash leaves room for kiting, but if you reeeally want the flux i suppose you could play all or nothing. Bull's (or Scorpion Wire?) are the other least-conditional kd's but the recharges are slow. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 19:57, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

[build prof=W/A Dagger=12 Strength=8+1 Hammer=10+1+1][Hammer Bash][Burst of Aggression][Falling Spider][Horns of the Ox][Falling Lotus Strike][Crushing Blow][Blades of Steel][Resurrection Signet][/build] saw something like that first day of flux in RA-- Relyk 20:58, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * With stonefist insignia HotO isnt needed taking.  Maciej  Talk  14:39, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Also you would take flurry instead of long reacharging Burst of Agression....  Maciej  Talk  14:40, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * so, go through all this trouble to get stronger daggers only to use flurry? Smitysmitehex.png I smite thee !!   on 17:18, March 19 2012 (UTC) 17:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * daggers do shit damage, it's the extra + damage you want. i didn't actually test whether or not this is more effective, though. &mdash;  ska  17:41, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * on top of that, Flurry is great for charging your skills, and burst decharges your charged up hammer bash after the spike. &mdash;  ska  17:42, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

The only reason to run W/A is for 4 second KD... you get 14 dagger mastery witht the flux but you may as well run A/D with reaper's sweep as the KD if you were to do that. <font color="Black">Frostels 18:35, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The only problem is that the only viable ias is heart of fury, and even with this its very,VERY hard to pull it. <font color="Black">Maciej  -~'  Talk  '~-  18:44, 19 March 2012 (UTC)