Build talk:D/W Onslaught

I'm not sure if this amounts to the full potential of the new derv or not. But thought I'd toss it up anyhow. --Saxon 18:04, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Crippling Victory + Reap Impurities has way more dmg potential then Aura Slicer + Reap Impurities bc it applies a condition to multiple foes which magnifies the dmg done by Reap Impurities. And the other two skills you tossed up are not required for the build to function. That's why I reverted it.--Saxon 05:41, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Whirlwind Attack and "Save Yourselves! are too good to give up on melee that uses adren skills as the main damage source. Zyke 06:43, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Also 30 earth damage is pretty much nothing in HM so you'll probably end up doing more damage with cracked armor. Zyke 06:47, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually, might as well do:

Pretty much all armor-ignoring damage. Run 10+1 mysticism, 11+1+1 scythe, and 10+1 wind. Zyke 07:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The point of Crippling Victory is not for the earth damage. CV applies a condition to multiple foes which multiplies the armor ignoring damage of Reap Impurities. Aura slicer applies a condition to one foe, limiting the effect of Reap Impurities, and it's cracked armor will only last half a second bf it gets stripped by Reap Impurities. When I was testing, the 3 adrenaline attacks refueled so quickly that a 4th one (whirlwind attack) was nvr used, and most mobs (in nm) were wiped out to quickly to even get to it. Thats why I thought it was a waste of a space and maybe something more useful should be brought...maybe Grenth's Aura or another utility. --Saxon 13:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah. If Cracked Armor is on top, then it's pretty useless.

Rush in mob -> Ermite -> CV -> RI -> Whilrind -> CV -> RI... super aoe damage.Zyke 08:57, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ^ Sounds nice but doesnt sync. Eremite's would constantly strip the elite and Heart of Fury is redundant of the elite. --Saxon 14:03, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * For the record, Heart of Fury does stack with the IAS of Onslaught, being different skill types, so not exactly 'redundant' (but what you're getting at is clear). If you'd rather swing at 1 second rates instead of 1.125 second rates, Onslaught+HoF isn't a bad way to go.--71.244.103.38 01:12, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Erp dur. i wrote that at 4 n the morning while on meds. Obviously HoF should be some sort of cheap cover. 24.6.25.179 18:11, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Merge
Other then the Elite, do the two builds have anything in common? They seem pretty different to me, not just variants. One focuses on energy management, spells and self preservation...the other on abusing adrenaline gain for melee. And before merging, are they both worth keeping around? --Saxon 13:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for removing the merge tag. Didn't make sense to me either at this point. --Saxon 14:43, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Attributes
Seem odd to me, being as you have not many enchantments so don't need mysticism too high, and the weapon should probably be 12 specced, and your elite duration is just under 10 sec (9.6s) when you could spec it slightly higher. -- Chieftain   Alex  17:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The original thought was that Onslaught is basically maintainable @6 Wind and only costs 4energy @14 myst. But making Scythe higher probably makes more sense here. I switched myst and scythe attributes. Onslaught still only costs only 5 energy. And since you're always enchanted it made sense to me to have Myst as high as possible for the armor rating. But it wouldn't make to much of a difference to move some attributes over to Wind from myst.--Saxon 17:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * breakpoint is 9, you have all adrenaline skills anyways, a zealous scythe is way more than enough-- Relyk  talk  20:45, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

less reap impurities
more whirlwind attack and zealous sweep for spamming chilling victory-- Relyk  talk  00:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * All you have to do is spam crippling victory -> reap impurities -> chilling victory, hitting a couple of foes will help with adrenaline gain along with a shit ton of aoe from small packets of damage. I don't know if onslaught is necessarily the best choice for an elite, but this scythe combo is excellent for PvE.74.61.39.33 13:05, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Crippling Victory > Reap Impurities is great when you're in a mob, but from testing, does little against single targets. I changed the bar to have more single target damage and focus on chilling victory. Crip > Reap was added to the variants section. --Saxon  16:09  28 February 2011 (UTC) 

Adrenaline
Has anyone tested this altered mainbar? Even with the extra adrenaline from FGJ! and Onslaught, I can't imagine that you'll have enough for four adrenal attacks plus SY!. Three of the attacks are fairly expensive @ 6a, which wouldn't leave much for SY! spamming imo, especially since FGJ! has a 25 second downtime where the only extra adrenaline you're getting is from Onslaught. Since there's no enchants on the bar other than Onslaught, you can't use a teardown attack, but maybe something like Zealous Sweep should be mainbarred in place of one of the adrenal skills. jimbo321 talk  15:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If you get 2,5 strike adrenaline per hit, with striking up to 3 targets at once, that means you can actually use those 6a attacks on the 2nd attack, and might even instantly recharge them (excluding ww attack). It's very possible. Just dont spam SY whenever it charges, just use it once every ~5 sec.Falrach 15:53, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't need FGJ, it shouldn't be on the mainbar.-- Relyk  talk  19:52, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "FGJ!" is redundant on this, youll get plenty of adrenaline so you dont need it. And also, increase WP by one so you can maintain onslaught constantly, or use a +20% Ench grip. MOstling333 21:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Yay AoE
Zyke 08:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Name
How common is Onslaught at range? I mean, maybe Paragons use it, but surely Warriors, Dervs and 'Sins are all actually Melee... so how is this descriptive? 86.147.7.94 08:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Because Onslaught Dervish is taken by the PvP version. If its bothering you I guess it could be PvE Onslaught. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 22:51, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Bearclub
Are you aware Club of a Billion Bears only KDs the target, not those hit by scythe? k. ~  Ӎiñon  07:51, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's understandable, so is removing eremites. Removing grenth's aura was stupid though, put it back. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 08:31, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What I've found while running the build is that you don't need any other FEs other than Rending and Onslaught. Grenth's Aura is purely survivability and adds no functionality to the build. What you want in your optionals, optimally, is a PvE damage skill, Twin Moon Sweep and Brawling Headbutt. Dodge This would be fine too, I guess. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 08:36, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the correction, I was going off the wiki page ("Despite the wording of the skill, using this skill with a scythe does knock down multiple enemies.") I guess practice targets are non-human...wiki will be corrected also.
 * However let's add back Eremite's. Twin Moon can "hit" up to 6 times, Eremite's depends on mob size. Twin is more defensive, Eremite's has more dmg. Twin slightly slows adren gain also.
 * Also remove Wearying. No point tearing down enchants to spam DW in pve, especially if melee is reputed so overpowered as to kill mobs in seconds. And it slows down adren more than Twin Fianchetto 16:17, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Doublestriking one foe twice is more powerful in general play (when not superballing mobs tight) And you're forgetting that you already have Eremite's on the bar. It's just called something else; Whirlwind Attack. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 19:59, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing out that Eremite's should be taken for the same reasons as Whirlwind Fianchetto 20:08, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Except that WWA is more spammable, especially due to the synergy with Onslaught... 6s recharge on Eremite's, 1s on WWA and 2 seconds using other skills. See? ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 20:09, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And WWA doesn't need a FE.HerpDerp 20:14, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Twin needs a FE too, that's no reason Fianchetto 22:02, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The point is you can't slot too many FE-requiring attacks on this bar. Onslaught-charged WWA means you don't absolutely need to take eremites, and can use that slot for Twin Moon, which is more useful against stragglers. -- Toraen   confer  23:37, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

This turned into a shitstorm relatively fast, @Minion, Grenth's Aura should pretty much be mainbar on any dervish bar in pve when you're using wind prayers. As I'm sure you're aware, last dervish update scythe damage was nerfed. Lifesteal ignores armor and as such is more reliable than depending on your base damage for dps. Considering it still stacks with SoH/EBSoH and other +damage skills it's sort of silly not to have it in optionals at the very least. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 20:37, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So the only reason you take it is because it's armour ignoring? You plan on hitting less than 20? In that case lets drop Scythe Mastery all together and put 16 in Wind Prayers. If you plan on hitting for more than 20 then it will only provide very low survivability. And what do you mean it stacks with SoH/EBSoH? If youre hitting for 5's normally and use Grenths you will hit for 20's. You then buff that by 15 with EBSoH and you are still hitting 20's. It doesn't add a seperate 15 or anything. HerpDerp 20:52, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you just dense, or are you being silly? rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 21:02, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You're saying Grenths should be main bar on every Derv bar and you're calling me dense? You undermined your own argument by bringing up bonus damage skills. If youre in a good rank EBSoH or have GDW on you then all you get from grenths is tiny heals. If you want Grenths to be on every bar I guess you want Mystic Vigor there too. How about you respond to me this time rather than insulting me. HerpDerp 21:07, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah you're being silly. Any derv bar using wind prayers* and this isn't a team build, it's a pve general build, who says another player can't bring ebsoh, why can't a hero bring SoH + splinter weapon. Also when did armor ignoring damage become bad? As for me insulting you, my apologies. I assumed someone who would name themselves "HerpDerp" would have been a bit more of an internet tough guy, as such I'll retract my statement about you being dense. Respect Get! rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 21:11, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Armour ignoring damage is great but Grenths wont give you any damage. In General PvE I think it's safe to assume tht you will have a healer and 20 health per hit will be a negligible heal in comparison to what they can do. And I was saying because a hero can take SoH and other people can take EBSoH and GDW that makes Grenths a redundant skill. If you didn't have any other form of damage amplification then it might be viable. HerpDerp 21:18, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's why we have the optional slot, if you have a better skill to use then mainbar it and delete the optional section. Optionals offer a variety of skills to use depending on your situation. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 21:52, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "Grenth's Aura should pretty much be mainbar on any dervish bar in pve when you're using wind prayers." We're not arguing about it being an optional. We're arguing about it being main bar. HerpDerp 21:55, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Personally I like to run Grenth's just to impress my pug by spamming SY and keeping myself alive with minimal help from healer :DDD This bar eats imbagon for breakfast Fianchetto 22:02, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ugh... Taking self-heals in PvE is never advised. It's never enough to keep yourself from sustaining critical death and the slot can be used better for more damage. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 22:16, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot you don't ball and spike. Even when you're melee. Grenth's Aura is pro if you know how to use it. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 22:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Let me break it down for you, because apparently you didn't understand what Phill said. Unless you autoattack for less than 20 damage, GA adds NO damage and is a wasted slot. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 23:17, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It has AoE lifesteal on cast though, which is effectively additional armor-ignoring damage. It is rather small though and only every 10 seconds. -- Toraen   confer  23:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * 20 AoE damage is meh. Really meh. HerpDerp 23:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure GA doesn't stack with soh. (edit) Yes it doesn't stack.-- talk  23:31, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * HM update, then Whirling Charge/Mystic Twister/Test of Faith? Fianchetto 23:57, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * @Torean, AoE Lifesteal makes balling much easier. I free-ball most of the time without prots since micro-managing a spike is enough of a hassle. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 01:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Melee in HM will do about 60 dps (Probably alot more). You give yourself a heal of 20 per foe. You get yourself less than a third of a second of extra time assuming no ranged foes and assuming the melee only do 60 dps. 12.5% of your bar is dedicated to buying you less than a third of a second more time to ball. Also you're pro enough to micro a spike but you cant pre cast prot spirit on yourself or let a monk walk into range for a second? HerpDerp 02:12, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I use an ST rit like a boss for one, for two who the fuck let's someone heal you WHILE YOU'RE BALLING. There is this thing in guild wars called aggro, if you get healed it breaks. Grenth's Aura has plenty of use in pve, it's a perfectly viable optional, the fact that you're going to such extreme lengths to defend the removal of an optional (by one of your guildies hurdur) is pretty silly. The entire reason we have optionals is so people have a variety of choices. A toolbox of skills is a wonderful thing to have. I already stated if you have some skill thats absolutely superior you should mainbar it. You're new here, so what that means is you put it on the skill bar instead of the optionals. I love bolding text. That is all. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 02:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "I free-ball most of the time without prots" then "I use an ST rit like a boss". Not even gonna point it out.. Moving on. You can walk into range of the player NOT the mob and drop a heal then walk back without getting aggro. And about the optionals thing. If you want to take it. Fine. I don't give one sngle shit. But if we listed every single skill under the attributes you specced into just so you "have a variety of choices" every page would be quite long. I might be new here but that doesn't change a thing. Notice when I responded. It was when you said GA should be mainbar'd on every derv with Wind Prayers. I'm sure you can use your deductive powers to then reason that I am infact arguing that it shouldn't be on the main bar. I am against it being an optional but couldn't really care less. HerpDerp 02:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I assume he meant targetted prots, ie SoA + PS. Also this is a lot of drama for one PvE build. PewPew   QQ   02:45, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Healing someone that's tanking does draw aggro apparently. Have you ever done any pve ever? I literally am in the works of writing hero AI, I'm pretty sure I have a better idea on guild wars game mechanics than the current staff do. Please go heal a tank in ANY organized high end area while he's balling and then come back and apologize when your team wipes and everyone calls you a fatty. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 06:18, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Using GA to reduce pressure while balling under ST is so beyond this build and talk page. It's in variants, which is suitable for people who want to bring it instead of Rending Aura or alongside it, so stop bitching.--Christmas sig.jpg talk  10:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Rask, you're not even defending GA anymore. You're just calling me bad. And I can think of atleast one example of a tank being healed while balling in an elite area. In UW when tanking mindblades it's not rare for the Emo to fuse the LT while waiting for a block. HerpDerp 14:31, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Yet another proof of how retarded gwpvx wikiers are
The point of this wiki is to test and rate builds according to performance. But when testing this, both in practice and vs master of damage, it is clearly subpar to Pious Teardowns. Yet it still falls in to the same category. It's clumsy to play, and the DPS is unimpressive at best. Even if you accidentially strip Aura of Holy might from the Pious teardown build and play like a drunken idiot, you will still severely outperform this build damage wise, not to mention the self heal and the fact that pious teardowns easily brings more AOE then this build does. Heck, even if you don't even bring Aura of Holy Might, you will outperform this build damage wise. Crazy huh? It does deserve a spot in the good category, but that's also all it deserves. Yet another wonderful example of the blind leading the blinder draining the cripples down the drain with them. 84.48.54.253 01:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This is because apparently some dickwads get cramps and (think they're getting) carpal tunnel syndrome when they play PR. Thus, retardation leads them to inferior builds like Onslaught and AoB. Nevertheless, it's in good now. Also, just because all the noobs get together and bandwagon doesn't mean there aren't some intelligent people around here. -- Jai .  -  03:02, April 4 2012 (UTC)
 * Onslaught is a fun alternative, don't be hating!-- Relyk 03:30, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * One of the noobs^ THEY 05:19, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Jai, that's true. But in my experience wikis is like putting 2 guys on the discovery channel. One that has dedicated his life to researching what happened in the holocaust and another that doesn't believe it happened at all. They sit in the same chair, they both wear suits, and theyre both on TV, so they look like equals.
 * And "They", I agree xD But this time he's right, it's a fun build to play. It works allright. But it's performance doesn't warrant a spot in the great category. 84.48.54.253 17:38, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

A quite fun (and powerfull) alternative
Title says it all:

Use a 20% enchantment scythe and zealous scythe. Dont forget the windwalkers rune. U get hp stealing. Fast attacking/running/adrenalin gaining. + A LOT OF EXTRA AR(and HP) u got 50 % block chance. Kolpin 09:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Way too overly defensive for anyone at PvX to support a build like that. I'm sure you never die with that, though. -- Jai .  -  13:07, May 19 2012 (UTC)
 * if you put the magic buzzword "Tank" in the title you'll get lots of support! &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 13:41, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * But dedicating more than 1-2 skills for said tanking is overkill the majority of the time. -- Jai .  -  14:01, May 19 2012 (UTC)
 * most of the time, yes. it still largely depends on the map, team setup, and your own bar (if very few slots give enough damage, if there's anything better to slot, etc.). also, dedicating yourself to a shield when you could nuke everything with 2-handeds is overkill. most of the time. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 14:18, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything powerful about it. Cuilan 17:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I count 3 damage skills. = tank. (grenth's doesn't change dps) Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx  17:51, 19 May 2012 (UTC)