Archive talk:Team - 7 Hero Melee Support

ST looks like a wasted slot in this team, when you could just put PS/Aegis on an ele, mesmer, one of the RoJ monks or so. You lose a damage slot for overkill defence. Already got your Panic (also overkill), Blind spam and spirit walls. ~  Ӎiñon  01:37, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * ST is essentially the most important build in the team because it allows you to pull stuff far more safely. PS is stripped too easily and isn't nearly as universal as Shelter. The Panic could be traded out for ESurge in easier areas, but this was made with areas that are actually remotely difficult in mind. Also, just under 5/7ths of the build is offense. How is that defensive overkill? Not to mention that with a melee, two RoJ's, ESurge, Mistrust, CoF, Chaos Storm, Ineptitude, etc., not to mention the damage from the melee plus splinter and SoH, there's no reason why you would need more damage because everything should be balled and dead in under 5 seconds. -- Jai . -  01:53, December 16 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm looking at the bottom RoJ; and thinking that it looks tight on energy. You seem to have given it fall back (10 energy), strength of honor (-1 energy regeneration) in addition to reversal of damage. looks like hero will spam skills and neuter it's own energy. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  16:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Meh, it's usually fine. They usually don't cast much before stuff is dead. Normally I run PDrain instead of Castigation Signet and run Heaven's Delight, and they don't have any troubles with energy. If it does get bad, you could put a party heal on each one run SoH/PDrain on one and FB/Cast Sig on the other. -- Jai' s Computer -  17:33, December 29 2011 (UTC)
 * Melee support really has to have orders and or judge's insight--Christmas sig.jpg talk  00:00, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * They don't stack so why would you bring both? -- Toraen   confer  00:04, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I could see maybe putting JI as an optional/variant for people using scythes or axes, but daggers gain essentially nothing from it. And as Toraen said, Orders doesn't stack with JI. -- Jai' s Computer -  00:11, December 31 2011 (UTC)
 * and needs mop.--Christmas sig.jpg talk  00:12, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes.... Let me work on that. -- Jai' s Computer -  00:52, December 31 2011 (UTC)
 * My melee setup has MoP and Enfeebling on the Inept. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 01:03, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of speccing curses onto inept. If you did that, put Clumsiness as optional since energy isn't as manageable.--Christmas sig.jpg talk  10:08, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's the only place I can see it going. -- Jai' s Computer -  14:26, December 31 2011 (UTC)

lol @ Panic Healer. Spirit Siphon is spammed by heroes even when they have 3 energy and no spirits have enough energy, so they'll lose energy. You should replace esurge with a dedicated N/Rt so you don't get insta-wiped. Fall back would go over Death Pact on illusion mesmer. Also, how is this melee support with no orders? When I think "Melee Support" I want to be able to hit hard with a melee class and be able to spam SY. Maybe if you can fit Orders somewhere in here, orders/X hybrid over one of the RoJ monks. Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava}   21:08, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * spot heals on Panic are fine, not hard to micro spirit siphon, you won't collapse that easily without the second healer. Run orders necro with MoP over a roj, the point isn't really to setup a spike with roj. I drop RoD and smiters boon for divine/heavens, which people don't like to do for some reason. A minor point but I don't care about spamming SY as a melee.-- Relyk 23:55, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

It's lacking minions 107.10.52.207 22:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't absolutely need minions. In fact melee players can easily do without them. -- Toraen   confer  23:39, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Hero usage
Removing minions from the equation makes sense when using a ST. As it means ST will be used to protect heroes and player in sterad of minions. I do however have to question the effectiveness of the overall build. Because: 1. Already before the 6th of january patch mesmers multiple mesmers had questionable performance against mobs that were not perfectly balled up. 2. This build does not have a definite purpose, if it is made for general PVE it's inefficient because of the lack of SoGM and a Minion Master. And the ST is not needed outside of elite areas and perhaps the burning forest in EOTN. And if it's made for elite areas there's other things that needs to be concidered. ( - from SDM time trials. Beat the second place build with over a minute and the third place with over two, using both SoS, SoGM and AoTL minion master, no hero build is faster then this was prepatch.) 3. If you're going with an all AOE damaged no minions and lack of single target approach, why not just make it easy and grab SoS + ST + 5 SF Elementalists with EBSOH on player character? 84.48.54.253 14:09, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you should submit your own merc hero build on the wiki. 5 SF ele's is a totally different build than this.
 * Learn to sign your comments before you speak shithead. 84.48.54.253 14:08, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * NPA bucketcunt. Pew   Pew   14:16, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Funny that you then had to go back to remember to sign your first comment. 212.139.82.224 14:19, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ST is fucking amazing anywhere, 'cause it's an irremovable Prot Spirit. It may not be needed in 100% of areas, but at that point you can just run in with your 5/6 nukers and blow shit up anyway. And this is plenty fast in any area, and overall the most consistent setup possible for general PvE. Also, that screenie was Jeydra, who not only is a very, very good GW player, but also spent a very large amount of time one tactics for Raisu as well as perfecting her builds for that area. For just general PvE where people aren't going to give a fuck by changing builds, it's better to provide something that will work for elite areas while trading out a (very) little bit of speed for areas that don't need as much defense. In other words, 90% of people won't notice the speed difference between this build and one that's optimized for low-level areas. Or at least, that's my opinion. Run (or try to get vetted) whatever the hell you want. -- Jai .  -  14:03, February 3 2012 (UTC)
 * There are good female gamers? Jeydra is a dude. It was also a competition, so to prove a point both parties had to do their absolute best to prove their builds. Iirc, EFGJack was faster with tank and spank method. Soi Sticker 14:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? Always thought Jeydra was a she. Either way, Lau is/was one of the best GW players on PvX. And I'm pretty sure EFGJack didn't beat Jeydra's time. Even still, it's only one place, and one that arguably favors non-Tank'nSpank methods. -- Jai .  -  03:20, February 4 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe before Xenomortis started posting... He is the greatest player on this wiki right now. What are her achievements anyway? Xenomortis has some amazing videos of owning Forgewight with casterball. Takes skill. Soi Sticker 04:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * lol... -- Jai .  -  05:33, February 4 2012 (UTC)

SoS
Can easily be ran as a N/Rt. Superior energy management, slightly squishier spirits. People are literally pushing this shit out just to fill the merc category.  RąʂKɭɘş ♣  14/f/japan  11:56, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Especially since ele's can now fill up any previously-useless slots, there's really just not much need for mercs. However, IMO this build is probably one of the few that I might suggest keeping (though keep in mind I authored this one, so obv bias), because a melee really does get a lot of use out of two rits (one for ST, the other for Splinter + heals - neither of which another profession can do with close to the same efficiency), and of course, any build with 3 mesmers is good. The only things I might consider changing are the smiters so that DH is on each one and one has FB and the other SoH (you lose healing from DH+HD+13DF, but get better energy management on the SoH), and changing the Panic Resto to another ESurge or Ineptitude if Panic and/or heals aren't needed. -- Jai .  -  13:35, February 3 2012 (UTC)
 * The title says Melee Support but I don't see MoP. 84.13.249.214 13:54, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it should be fit in somewhere (see the discussion above). That was my mistake for missing that when I was making this. -- Jai .  -  14:06, February 3 2012 (UTC)

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Triple_Mes_Melee_Support any build with three mesmers is Great. Soi Sticker 14:11, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * When someone tells you to hit the road, do you actually run out there with a stick and start whacking the road? No? Okay. -- Jai .  -  14:24, February 3 2012 (UTC)

ST
Double sup rune. Not much good to anyone dead now is he? 78.149.38.53 02:18, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * he doesnt even have to be near you, the increased health of all your defensive spirits is worth 1 player having less health (especially with shelter) &mdash; Skakid  Rally- kupo! [[Image:S9M.png]] 03:18, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The sup spawning should be major-- Relyk 04:48, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * He doesn't have to be near you but he is a hero. Unless your flagging him back every fight (Preventing him using Binding Chains or Dulled Weapon) he will be just as close as anyone else.

Binding Chains without AwL lasts 3 seconds. Is that worth it? DarkSpirit 20:59, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It should keep the AI in RoJ for full duration, so I'd imagine so. Pew   Pew   21:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That is a big assumption considering that the ST rit AI would synchronize with the RoJ monks AI and casts Binding Chains immediately before an RoJ. I think if this happens it is by chance rather than the AI communicating with one another.  If they don't communicate with one another, then there is only a 3-second window for RoJ to come after casting Binding Chains, wouldn't it miss most of the time unless you micro them?DarkSpirit 21:11, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC) With micro there are no assumptions. (Hence the note to micro Binding Chains.) Pew   Pew   21:23, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Good call. If you are using RoJ, having a snare like this is almost necessary.DarkSpirit 21:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It's always necessary. Micro Binding Chains upon seeing RoJ animation so hero uses Binding Chains around second pulse. Bad people can use AwL.-- Relyk 22:29, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Except stuff almost always dies before they have the chance to scatter. :/ In the areas where stuff dies slowly, then yeah, a lot of times you need them in that last pop of RoJ, which means you'll usually need a snare. However, it's really not mandatory in the vast majority of areas. -- Jai .  -  00:29, February 7 2012 (UTC)

Healing/Prots
No SoA? The second person healing is also little weak relying on 2-3 skills from a Panic mesmer, and some smites/smiter's boon. If this build fails it is likely because the damage overwhelms the melee character in the thick of the mob. Has anyone tried this build in a HM elite area to prove that it works well?DarkSpirit 21:04, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. And Shelter+Union+Displacement is better than PS+SoA+Aegis in the majority of situations. -- Jai .  -  00:27, February 7 2012 (UTC)
 * Shelter+Displacement/Union is a replacement for prots in a majority of situations.-- Relyk 05:50, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Not Shelter or Displacement but Union would be the replacement for SoA since they are both damage reduction. For my own build, I only carry Shelter and Displacement for my ST rit to guarantee that within the 15s recharge of ST, my rit can cast 2 Shelters without Shelter going into recharge cycle.  Therefore I carry SoA to make up for the lack of Union.  This is why I asked how well this build works in HM elite areas but if it still works fine then good.DarkSpirit 08:28, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't use union for pulling on warrior. You micro union anyways if you bring it.-- Relyk 08:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Move to Hero section
Since we now have a 3th rit hero, this build (and the other one) are able to be made by heroes. On a side note, I've got the feeling that it makes the Mercenary section a bit redundant. Unless you would want to run 3 rits and 3 mesmers for some weird reason, what else could probably be stored here? Vorpal  22:46, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

RoJway
With the update, just add esurge option on the MM/PoD Healer slot in RoJway-- Relyk 05:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Archive?
There are quite a few mercenary/Zei Ri teams for melees (here, here, and here, to name a few). This comp has a few obvious downfalls: no BiP hurts the midline, RoJ causes scatter, PoD is underwhelming, lacking dual IMS, among other things. Overall, I feel this page is outclassed by current alternatives and should probably be archived. --Xanshiz (talk)01:45, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * agree, it doesn’t add anything not already better represented elsewhere Juniper real (talk) 21:48, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. --Krschkr (talk) 00:22, 15 December 2019 (UTC)