Archive talk:Team - 600/Smite Vloxen

Hi, I will add complete Instructions for this build ASAP. Any suggestions are welcome. Gesun Dheit 21:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Heres a suggestion, change the name and/or the first blue link in the description. --Sam6555 01:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yup change the name. Something like "Vloxen 600" or something


 * What's the reason behind that? Causing any problems? What sort of problems? Gesun Dheit 06:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * No no no, I mean the build is for Shards of Orr afaik. And the first blue link in the build says Vloxen Excavations, but like to Shards on the wiki. --Sam6555 08:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh woops lol. I was looking at the Shards page and took it from there since I'm new at building wikis haha. Thanks. Gesun Dheit 16:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hehe no probs, it's sorted now ;) (can you run this? If you can i'll pay almost anything within reason for a run, can bring whatever heroes to speed it up) Been needing this dungeon for a while sab and discord put together cannot conquer it =S --Sam6555 23:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions for fixing these bars
Stop being fucktarted and just run a standard 600/smite/famine. Like this one. It's better in just about every way.--Goldenstar 23:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ohai Goldenstar. I herd fucking expunge enchants sucks ass. Research more next time.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 23:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And also Vloxen might require diferent tactics to other areas. --Sam6555 23:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey dipshit, use your fucking visage + SS to make sure they don't have energy to expunge, and be ready to PS + SB right away if they do expunge =\. The current bars abs suck. Just take the 600/smite/famine bars, mod them a little for vlox and put instructions for dungeons on. Bravo, perf build page. Don't need shit like an roj ranger who can't manage energy (wuts ebond m8)? or a bip smite when UA + blood rit works much better--Goldenstar 23:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * First of all, please refrain from profanities and baseless arguments if you have not run this dungeon before. Secondly, the minions of zoldark come in groups of 2 with 1 ancient statue. you cannot SS all of them at once and they use it as their first attack immediately. the ancient statues also use an interrupt + daze so you cannot PS and SB right away or you're dead instantly. the way to do it is cover up then use spirit bond if necessary to finish them off. Famine does abolsutely nothing what so ever because they die faster than they lose all their energy. The minions also come in groups of 6. All 6 of them will use expunge at once from the start. Your opinion is therefore worthless. You don't need RoJ at all actually, and it doesn't have any problems managing energy either. Sometimes you don't take melee damage so famine will not work as well as RoJ. Alot of them are archers and casters and you need RoJ to finish off the last men standing a little quicker. I could try with famine but I can tell it's going to be slower. Unless ofcourse you really suck at micro-managing heros. Why don't you go ahead and try running it, unless you're just too lazy then might as well refrain from posting comments, period. For the record, the only other person i've seen do the run, after i completed my build completely hacked his way through level 3 by using a grail, essence and armor and asking the entire team to run and drawing the mobs away from the rez shrine. That's just really inadequate. He also died numerous times because he didn't carry Mantra of Resolve. Gesun Dheit 00:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Gonna go with goldenstar, mod up 600/smite/famine and put instructions on--Relyk 01:36, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well then go ahead and try it yourself. The last foe standing is what really matters, the rest die quickly. Famine will do nothing to those last foes, especially since they are always casters at the end. But you're welcome to try it and find out. I don't have the time or the urge to right now. Gesun Dheit 02:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There you go. I tested it and just like i said, the main group dies quicker but the last guy always takes longer. Carvers use healing signet constantly. If the last guy is a zealot, for example in Taskmaster Bellok's group you're pretty much screwed since you can't get the boss key. Yes, you could use some team intervention but that's just rather pathetic, especially if you are running it on your own. Could always take a 4rd hero to finish off the zealot if doing a test run, but it's always the zealot left at the end, and he almost always kites if you try to stand next to him at the start when all the melee damage is being done. Not only that, he kites out of the range of your spirits. Yes you could take UA. but why? for a test run sure, but UA is just a pathetic excuse for sucking. On top of that it leaves you with one less cover enchantment on level 3 since you have to slot BR on the smiter. And yes, you could take EoE but again that's 1 less cover enchantment on the ranger. You need at least 4 or 5 cover on Level 3 or you might as well forget it because not only will they remove you PS and SB, theywill also remove your bonds. So the answer is: yes, Famine is possible but requires extra team support or a 4th hero to finish off any remaining zealots that kited. As for UA and EoE, that's not possible because you lose too many slots for cover enchantments. It would make Level 3 next to impossible to complete without hacking it with cons and running to the shrine, which is really pathetic since level 3 can be done pretty quickly. You only have to kill 3 groups plus the boss key group. With cons you still have to kill 1 group plus the boss group. So it's only 2 additional groups you have to kill without cons. Huge waste. Plus if your team somehow manages to mess up the run to the shrine you might as well /resign. I've never had to use cons for anything, vanquish or any HM. Cons are a crutch and a pathetic excuse. Also sometimes the stone summir gnasher is left at the end and will keep using jagged bones/taste of death to heal himself for a while, slowing you down. I don't think any time is saved with Famine, it is just more noob-friendly and won't work in a 3-man build without additional team support. As I'm writing this i keep getting owned by the undead on Level 3 due to the lack of cover enchantments and BiP so i can do a full cast quickly enough that the lower enchants dont run out before i agro the undead. If you feel like trying it your way, go ahead. I'm going back to mine. Gesun Dheit 03:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a bit off topic but you say you dont have to use cons for anything hm or nm. Can you do Slavers exile (all dungeons with duncan) hero/hench nm/hm without cons? If u can pls post some link to build article or give some explanation.


 * BTW, I run bloodstones caves using cover enchants as well. Instead of asking your team to kill the toucher incubus (so I've heard, never seen it), or the build posted on pvx to degen them to death. I cover and use Recall to pull the incubus out of the way. It's alot faster and doesn't require any team intervention, but again, requires some actual skill. I'm the only person I know of that pulls the incubus out of the way in Bloodstone, noone else does it like that. As for the stationary incubus, i borrowed the QZ/RoJ/UA trick from Frostmaw's run. Gesun Dheit 04:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * your bringing spirit shackles right?--Relyk 04:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no slot for spirit shackles. you need visage and mantra. shackles will not help against groups of 2 minions and 1 statue. those groups remove 4 enchants. the groups of 6 minions remove 6 enchants. and they use it immediately, not after 2/3 attacks. You need mantra or they own you badly, not to mention the stone summit interrupt too. Gesun Dheit 04:39, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, so famine is feasible for this run. Either A. pull another group into the remaining Zealot in Taskmaster Bellok's group or B. ask for team support to kill him and obtain the Dungeon Key. I'll try to get around to the instruction as soon as I can, they will take a while to write. Gesun Dheit 09:45, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Kk so after running the mission
It's much faster and more effective to two-man this. Player bars i run are: Hero Bars are:

usage is fairly straight forward till bosses, 600 tanks, ranger lays spirits. Bip uses mindbender to lay his hexes and get out of agro, to bip 600, and to FF daze off. Necrosis and signets are for when monks are left over. At boss, have hero cast first ctt, agro. Then use your ctt and lod to tank + kill minions quickly. Keep tanking till boss is dead. Works much better for me than the enchant cover method and is much faster--Goldenstar 17:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It is better, but it needs 2 people, so it's worse.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 19:43, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's much faster. If you really want you can condense it down to one person by putting bip on the monk but it's a LOT slower that way--Goldenstar 21:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * tl;dr two-man runs are good when you can charge 30k/person. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  05:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ double on zquest days XD--Goldenstar 05:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You are missing an anti-interrupt which will inevitably result in some deaths unless you can avoid them by chance and happen not to get too unlucky. You are right that you can use Can't Touch This on level 3, but that requires an additional tank (or no mantra for anti-interrupts, in which case ancient statues can still get you on level3 with their elite). Imo alot of this is up to chance. Actually, I heard it's much faster to just use the 3-man build and a VwK tank on level 3 but haven't tested that scenario. I do acknowledge that being able to cover your enchants with the build i use takes some skill. Timing and your agro circle are key since SoA doesn't last very long. You can however use spirit bond near the end if your SoA runs out, but takes practice to avoid dazed. There is actually an even faster way to do level 3 and you don't have to take a 4-th man. You hack it by using cons and running to shrine. Cons cost 8k, extra slot costs 15k (or 30k if you wanna be a greedy ass). If you really want a faster run, bring a VoR mesmer to finish off the monks and put massive interrupts and CTT on him for level 3. ctt for minions, interrupts for Zoldark so he can't rez his minions again. Presto. Really hard to do with a hero though. Gesun Dheit 08:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Err guys, since there is a big shortage of Vloxen runners, (I spend 2 hours in Doomlore trying to find one, all I got was one n00b who left afther he coulnd kill the first boss), can you guys make a easy to use, (reasonable) fast build? For now, that would be what is needed. When people start finding out there is a easy-to-use build, they will start to get experience, and you get the chance to make them use the much faster build for exp ppls. Sounds good no? Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 09:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There are no 'easy' builds for running this dungeon. If you want easy then hack your way through level 3 with Cons. I would however like to point out that CTT did not have the functionality it currently has. It used to only affect the user before the June 18th update. Also, you mentioned your BiP uses hexes, but doesn't. Well, I'm not going to poke any more holes, but it seems to me you haven't been using this build for very long. What I was looking for was a 3-man anyways. I know this can be 4-manned without too much effort. Gesun Dheit 09:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

This dungeon sucks so hard: no special skin weapons from the end chest and it's ridiculously hard (btw you can kill the end boss with hit-and-run tactics by using splinter barrage on his minions). Other than Zquest and Dungeon books, I don't see the point in getting a run for this. -- FlameseekerMage  20:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * yet there are enough ppl out there looking for runs for every dungeon for their books so itsdefinitely worth it TeMuDsChIn 20:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the ranger's bar... i use succour, essence bond instead of vig spirit and dwayna's sorrow. With no 'cover enchantments' (I of course have protective spirit cast first so I have spell breaker, spirit bond, etc cover ps) I have before beaten the boss without dieing(only after the "Can't touch this" update), and since that update I only die 3 times at most, you don't really need the extra cover enchantments if you have the "CTT" person spamming it every 20 seconds and have yourself spamming spirit bond (every second with QZ up), the minions attack fast enough to maintian your energy to use spirit bond efficiently. When the minions are dead you recast ps and maybe SoA if you have time before he resses them. Then continue to spam spirit bond. The other bars on the mainpage are good but "CTT" makes this run much easier. Should note to ask someone to bring "CTT". When running by yourself you can use a VoR mes(as mentioned above) with "CTT" as a hero. I can run this dungeon(with the "CTT" update) in about 1hour on a good run. Bad run maybe around 1hour20mins, so i see no need in spliting my 25k runs with another person who brings hexes when i can just ask a team member to bring "CTT" and maybe, if i'm in a good mood, charge them 15k. Consitini 09:37, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * i herd u likez CTT--Relyk 06:33, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * With regards to the nec bar, doesnt he have to be up the 600s ass all the time? So wouldnt aggro leak?(pr0adam) [[Image:Healers Boon adam.jpg|19px]] 00:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you know how to cast without getting into agro bubble? O.o--Goldenstar 02:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Aggro will still leak sometimes, but there's minimal chance, especially if you're using AL 5. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  14:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

3-man
according to certain people, this works fine. CTT recharges every 10 seconds, so you just make sure your enchant stack is the same as you have it for when you fuck up in SoO. ··· 22:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks good, since this is meant to be 3 man.. you shouldn't say get someone to bring CTT or add a mes. Life Attunment gone will make the run slightly harder, although CTT is worth it for the last lvl, i used to hate the 3rd lvl. Make Haste will speed up moving around, although not needed & i guess there is nothing better then never surrender Consitini 08:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ Command's a shitty att line for dungeon running, so i figured at least MH would let the 600 have some fun and NS would regen the smiter after BiPs. Using Visage makes the run extremely easy, and Attune isn't missed much since you've got Resolve to make sure you get SoA up. ··· [[File:Danny-sig.png]] 17:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Uh, the tiny pictute of the builds at the top of the page doesn't match the large smiter bar down the page. One has balth spirit other has life attune. Which one is it?
 * Balth. ··· [[File:Danny-sig.png]] 17:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyone
have any records of Vloxen being run in a relatively quick amount of time and with very few deaths prior to the posting of this build? I just want to know if I get bragging rights or not. I know it was run, but I also know those run took upwards of 90 minutes, whereas a run now takes about 40-60. ··· 19:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've seen this ran in 44mins. No deaths. Whats your...PB (personal best)? But i don't have a screeny of that run, was Azrael somthing or rather. Hes in doomlore abit around American time, so you could always pay 25k to see how fast he runs. Consitini 07:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I know Illiyana's record is 34. Azrael is illiyana's only competition, not sure what he's gotten. Life Guardian 07:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, i'm not sure about Illiyana but Azrael uses the PvX build. So before the posting of this build i could run it in 70mins +/- 10mins. That was before the CTT update. I probably died 3 times. Consitini 08:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I had a 40 minute run from someone who isn't either of those people. I've managed about a 50 minute run, but I cbf'd much with gw anymore so that probably won't improve. I can just take pride knowing that I've written successful 600/Smite variations for two of the toughest areas in the game, and this one I literally pure-theorycrafted! :> ··· [[File:Dannycbf.PNG]] 17:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Usage
Someone needs to write a usage of this. I could give it a shot. But I never done Vlox and if someone says how to deal with Zoldark then I might try it. I saw on "spartandestroyer"s video that the 600 tanks the minions off to the side and the 5 other members in the team kills Zoldark (600 doesn't have smite bonds on him/her) --Sam6555 09:28, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also not very good if you are testrunning, unless you have trusted guildies. --Sam6555 09:37, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I used to run this so I could write up the usage, but I'll leave it to you and change it if you make any mistakes. Also at Zoldark theres heaps of different ways, because of the CTT update though you need your hero/player with CTT to be in range, easy with player slightly harder with hero. So what you can do in his chamber bond up the 600 like normal put CTT up he goes and tanks. What I've seen and tested to work best is you have your smiter/leechers at the entrance of his chamber. Then you go and aggro everything and pull them into this corner(not all the day down, just to the right/infront of zoldark) on the Right Hand Side (can't fully remeber), then have your ranger flagged behind the wall and he should still be in range for CTT, but because of that your ranger will be aggroing minions so he may die. If you find it to difficult as he is dieing all the time, swap BiP out for UA and purge sig for blood rit. I hope that helps but i see it maybe hard to understand not standing in vlox. Another thing you shouldn't rely on your party to kill zoldark like you say in that vid, they can speed up the run but zoldark dies quickly just with 600 anyways. Consitini 22:40, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

tl;dr'd Consitini's post, so sorry if this is redundant: just flag your ranger in the "pocket" along the wall on the right side. should be just within range of you for CTT. everyone else stands out of aggro range of your ranger and /dance's or some shit until chest pops. this may not be the best way to do it, but it's the easiest. ··· 20:18, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * lol thats pretty much what i said, that right pocket is what i meant and it is the best way i've done/seen done. Consitini 07:21, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Added a pretty detailed usage but its all from memory so change anything that isn't right. Consitini  23:35, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow. Nice. I could never be bothered to actually type all that up. :> ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  00:40, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was really really bored, thats what happens to me when I'm on exam blocks. Consitini  11:51, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Mantra Nerf
I wouldn't say that the mantra nerf kills this dungeon as it can still be easily ran without, although the skill should be swapped out of the mainbar. Also because this build relies on keeping with SoA up maybe mindbender is needed or something. Consitini 23:37, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Glyph of Concentration, Mindbender, or CTT!. Forcing Mantra off the mainbar means CTT could be easily taken in its place, which frees up a good bit of your ranger for other utility skills. Time for theorycraft. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  18:50, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah mainbaring CTT would be good, but the dungoen would be slower without visage. And then taking visages on the ranger would just make it tricky for heros. I think mindbender or maybe another visage would work just as fine. THeres really only rupts with the ranger's savage (visage on wars can stop them rupting) and if you time it right you can make sure SoA doesn't get rupted. Consitini 00:22, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * soa getting rupted wouldn't kill you alone, anyway. you only need SoA or SB, as i've proven my getting either one dstabbed multiple times by enchanteds in CoF. ;o i'd be tempted to say that mindbender shouldn't be taken at all. maybe take LoD to pump a little extra damage? ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  19:52, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * If you were to chane this extra skill, you could always add something like Spirit Shackles to kill the leftover Zealots if they become a problem and your leechers are lazy :) --Sam6555 21:06, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah i guess SoA getting rupted really wont kill you. And mindbender was just for some fun, if you want extra dmg i think "Finish Him!" would be better or PI, FH to finish off heal sigers faster or monks kiting. Although LoD would be awsome against the undead, but they already die pretty quick and going right up next to the boss would just be a hassle for the CTT hero. Consitini 01:27, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently you forgot we mainbarred CTT? >_> ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  19:58, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? i know its on the ranger's bar. In your above post i thought you meant on taking it on the 600. Consitini 00:05, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you think I was talking about bringing LoD on a hero? I was implying that if you went Mo/P, you could easily take LoD for additional damage and leave the hero flagged back. Perhaps bringing SV on the hero would solve all the problems. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  19:26, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I know thats what your meant but I was opposed to that idea with CTT on monk because that would lose visage, although bringing it on a hero could be a little tricky and i think using CTT on a hero is easier then using visage. Reason visage is tricky on a hero because you need maintain it in some mobs and to finish off some mobs, although putting it on before aggro is easy putting it on when your chasing down a monk would be hard for a hero(aggro leaks). So I think just keep visage on the 600(also theres not many mes support skills I can think of for the ranger, except shackles) and add LoD, PI, FH or other dmging PvE skills. Consitini 22:46, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Never mind mantra got reverted back into its original PvE stats, miswell keep it now.Consitini 23:23, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Sinway?
Just thinking out loud... One A/E with sliver 4 first (I have done this its very easy takes 2 mins), 5 A/Me for 2nd (with essence) to degen, and 2 CTT/Godspeed A/P for 3rd? sounds reasonable any thoughts?
 * I'm sure that works, two sins can even do vlox (but who wants to split 25k runs?). But why would you want to waste 3(maybe 2) essences on vlox?, and why would you want to farm vlox? (as thats what I'm guessing a sinway would do). Btw vlox has a very shitty end chest. Consitini  09:30, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Any tips?
Was steadily killing my way through the dungeon and got stuck on L2 at the water: killed most of it but was left with a zealot, a prest and a warder, which my team couldn't overcome. Also most of this seemed quite difficult to micro, with the spirits being occasionally out of range and famine causing some damage to ogden every time he hit 0. --Alex ! 12:25, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah that group can be tricky although leechers I've had have never had problems over coming the left overs. I usually would not have the warder left over, I don't think I've ever actually had the warder left over. With Ogden make sure you disbale blessed sig so he doesn't get energy back and make sure he has no energy regen (once I had a para leecher with song of power....) otherwise he will keep hurting himself. What I usually do is take acouple of hits to make sure oggy is 0 energy then lay down famine. With spirits ranges, I used to use a texmod |spirit radar until I found little places to always put my spirits and knew the patrols. Another helpful thing maybe to do is hotkey your ranger's spirit skills. This can be easier as it keeps two hands on the keyboard. Going back to the left overs you could always try to pull them up the stairs and into that big group, theres a few minion masters and melee to power visage to take down the monk and zealot, after those two the warder will kill himself aslong as you keep SB up. Consitini   12:52, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * I find this run extremely difficult. When fighting huge mobs (like the Necromancer boss on the second level) I have to keep spamming Spirit Bond on recharge because SoA and PS won't keep me away from death. If I stop spamming Spirit Bond for a few seconds to recast Spell Breaker, for example, I just die. I'm probably doing something wrong, but the build works just fine for the other smaller groups.--Zhoulba 02:18, December 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * SoA should keep you up against anything that isn't life-stealing. in fact, if you're not keeping SoA up you're probably not going to have a chance. It really should be your priority. ···  Danny Hates Snow   07:29, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah what danny said SoA is priority. Usually with the larger groups I will use spirit bond --> SoA --> Spirit Bond. The necro group I've never really had trouble with getting spiked down in the renewing of SoA. Only time I've been spiked down is lagging while against the group before the necro group. Really you don't need to spam spirit bond at all on the second lvl (only really the third lvl is where you need to but even then it can be avoided) unless of course you are hexed and have quite abit of degen.  Consitini  07:47, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Mo/P
This article needs updating. The current meta is to use Mindbender and Can't Touch This on 600. --War_Pig5 02:45, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * update it then. ···  Danny So Cute   05:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't ran this for money in ages. If you know the new 'meta' then rewrite it. Although I haven't seen anyone running vlox in ages. So, you use mindbender instead of mantra to avoid rupts?, you already have MH to run faster. You use CTT on the 600, so you don't die as much at the boss? Imo though it doesn't sound fast enough on the second lvl as visage makes taking down large groups (more then 1 monk) a breeze and the demolishers alot easier. The last lvl is only 5mins or so. CTT on the monk doesn't seem worth it as the ranger can just be popped in that corner at the boss (you can place yourself and the ranger, so that the ranger doesn't aggro and stays alive) and the rest of the groups on that level die quick enough for CTT to be used only once. Consitini  09:58, January 8, 2010 (UTC)