User talk:Tai/R/any Generic Support Ranger

figured it was time to compile them. most builds are just this bar with different elites and the occasional different skill. Alpha fireborn 14:06, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * We've discussed this before, several times, but we came to the conclusion that the usages of the elites are too different to make into one buildpage. Also, you need to change attributes in order to make IA fully effective, therefore it shouldn't be included on the list. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]McTai  14:07, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * didn't know. if you feel it should be removed just throw up the speedy deletion tag. Alpha fireborn[[Image:Alpha Fireborn Cripshot.JPG|19px]] 14:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * perhaps if we add a slight description after each elite (or elite catagory) we can unify it though. ill add a note about IA when i get access to a computer again
 * mo, just no. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 14:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Working on cleaning it up. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]McTai  14:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Also I disagree with the WELL. But if this goes through, I'm totally taking partial credit (yes yes PvX:OWN) because of User:Tai/Ranger_Build_Merging :P [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]McTai  14:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * The elites used make the bar much different. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 14:25, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * No, they make the usage different. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]McTai  14:26, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Usage makes a bar -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 14:28, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Half of a bar imo [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]McTai  14:33, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * The point is, their completely different BUILDS -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 14:35, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeahhh ok. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]McTai  14:44, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * yhre not all different but people just dont seem to like it when u try and group all other them together.......meh [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  16:27, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

(reset indent) While i dont completely disagree with the well tag, i must also believe that if the bars are EXTREMELY similar, which means that all but 2 skills are the same, then the builds should be put together and explained in the usage. nevertheless, why not put it into trial for a bit and start discussing it again. (if im opening a can of worms, STOP ME NOW) Alpha fireborn 16:34, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * YOU ARE! It has been discussed about 50 times before and no is the answer everytime -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 16:37, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * So why is this in testing then? Zyke 20:04, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

I can't remember how many times I've seen this tried and shot down.-- Liger414 talk  12:43, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * shocking how it's in great, ain't it? ;)  ~ PheNaxKian Sysop   13:14, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Annoying how this got through when all the other gos got shot down, seriously...--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  13:15, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * lol. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]<small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  13:18, 1 November 2008 (EDT)


 * Shocking how autistic some admins (who ban the entire active BM team) are, and coincidentally how this gets into great a day later. Shithead. 219.75.244.214 13:18, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * NPA? Different IPs? Lol.--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  13:27, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

Someone will probably have to add notes on where to use each Elite; their effects are obvious enough, though. ــмıкε нaшк  13:22, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Two EC's annoys me. In short what I tried to say twice is that we don't need this.--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  13:22, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

Merging all the ranger builds is retarded
The advice on different usage isn't even good or complete, so this is welled and will likely be deleted. As for people who think this shouldn't be in great, they are dumb, this template IS great, it's just retarded to compile it all onto one page. - Misery  Is  Friendly   13:32, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * IMO just copy the usage on each page here. Changing one or two skills, abeit different usage, doesn't change the overall objective of the build, thus should be condensed into one page.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 13:34, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * /signMisery--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  13:35, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC) I was just looking at the other pages, ie BA ranger, and if you look, the usage which is specific to the elite (and not the "core" skill that are on this page) is only one or two sentences. I think it's easily compiled here. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]<small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  13:36, 1 November 2008(EDT)
 * Exactly my point.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 13:38, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, let's have a huge build page with builds with almost unrelated play styles all compiled. Oh wait, no, that's a terrible idea. There is no reason to compile the builds, so why should we compile them. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 13:39, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * If you've ever played a ranger, you know that the builds don't even compare in playstyle, which is half of why build pages exist. That's like suggesting we merge a fire ele with a water ele.  Also, people that use this wiki aren't people that will search through giant blocks of usage text for the one they need.  Just get rid of this, it's retarded.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  13:40, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * You can't merge water and fire eles because their bar is too vastly different to even compare. 3/4 of ranger support builds come with the exact 4-5 skills in their bar, with minors deviations depending on the elite they want to take. Pasting the usage and purpose of each elite and combining ranger support builds into one page is so much better.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 13:44, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC) PvX doesn't teach play styles; it just tells you how to use the skills. I don't really care either way, though. ــмıкε  нaшк  13:44, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * It's terrible how people can argue changing elites make a totally different build. As michael said, PvX teaches people how to use the build, not playstyles, which copying the usage of each individual support ranger build and pasting here to condense everything into one page will still have it's intended purpose of keeping each usage unique.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 13:48, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * There's also quite a few suggestions for Variants on this page, which makes it look a little cluttered, tbh. ــмıкε  нaшк  13:50, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Loads of diffferent build pages are better than one that is impossible to work out and way too big.--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  13:53, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC fest)Pika, that's my point. These bars' usages are too different to compare, even if they have similar skills. Also, this page shows almost no understanding of the ranger class. IA and BA are grouped together in playstyle, as are MBS and BHA. That's just plain wrong, those bars have very little in common as far as tactics. And PvX not teaching playstyles shows that build pages are doing it wrong, not that that's the way it should be. Just stop being bad and let this die ffs.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  13:52, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

I lolled at Magebane and BHA together. Gave me the giggles that did. - Misery  Is  Friendly   13:54, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * And the build page isn't even written correctly. -_---[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  13:54, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * You scoff at the wrong usage because that's the only legitamate argument you have against merging articles.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 13:59, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * If I were new to GW and PvXwiki, I would find one page for similar support rangers so much easier to browse through and compare the difference between each elite and its usage. Not open a hundred tabs in my browser and alt+f4 all the time to compare each and every single slight variation and it's good and bad points. @Dejh These bars are not as different as you think. You choose your elite and change a few skills to suit your needs and playstyle. That's why you got pick n mix sections in your sweetshop. You want sweets, but you want chocolate and preserved strawberry. Another person wants gummy bears and raisin cookies. You don't create one sweetshop to sell each type of sweet; it will be too troublesome to find and to compare which sweet you want. In the same way, merging similar(bar-wise) ranger builds is easier for people to compare what kind of support ranger they want. Do they want cripshot for snaring fests? Or do they want burning arrow for degen pressure? Or do they want to because a Empathic ranger to support monks in small arenas? <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 13:58, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Then that's what we have to do; be as specific as possible with the Usages of each Elite without cluttering the page. ــмıкε  нaшк  14:01, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

I really should have commented on this earlier, but I forgot that all the people who would tell you all how terrible you are got banned. I guess my final question is, would someone prefer I moved this to their user space instead of deleting it? If you want to see why this shouldn't exist, either learn to play the game or go read any of the talk pages for any of the rangers, because someone has foolishly suggested a merge on almost all of them. @Pika, if you are new to GW, don't play ranger, it's one of the hardest positions in a match. - Misery  Is  Friendly   14:02, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Whether someone is too new to play ranger isn't a valid reason; the point is to make such ranger builds easily accessible and easy to compare. Resorting to veiled insults doesn't make others and I convinced why NOT to merge. It only shows how resistant you are to valid and legitamate arguments. The only valid argument so far you have against the merging is basically the offending article in question isn't accurate enough. Not because there are disadvantages to merging, not because there is a flaw in fundamentals if you merge such builds together. Seriously, many people who have a valid points to make gets put down when they don't adhere to flawed conformities. People are just indifferent, no, not even that, resistant is a more accurate word, to doing things better and differently, it seems.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:13, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * 3 EC's...This would do well as a guide?--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  14:03, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Misery, move it to mine just to keep it. Or I can if you want, but I dunno if I should do it now or wait. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]<small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  14:04, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

thankyou <small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  14:13, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

Now it's in user space
Feel free to make it complete and not terrible and discuss how all the builds should be replaced with a guide, then prepare for a million people to tell you how wrong you are and totally reject all your hard work. The only two builds I would even think of merging are Cripshot with Melandru's shot, but I wouldn't do that because of the history behind Cripshot, I argued pretty hard against Shock Axe being lumped in with all the others when that happened too for the record, but for some reason Auron was letting Zuranthium do a lot of stupid things at that point in time. - Misery  Is  Friendly   14:13, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * The moment I saw this article being created, I know many people like you will say this is wrong, not because it is justified, but because you want it to be, and many others want it to be, and hence it will be wrong, and this is one of the many reasons why many good players left PvX.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:19, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Well if you can clean it up well then maybe people will reconsider. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]<small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  14:20, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Making this a guide is a good idea?--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  14:21, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Guide:Ranger [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]<small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  14:22, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * I have no problem with a guide alongside all the builds we currently have. Tell me how less information is better than more. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 14:23, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * If we have a guide why make this? The usage is different. For a new PvX browser it isn't hard to click back.--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] <font color="Blue">Liger414 <font color="Teal">talk  14:24, 1 November 2008 (EDT)


 * There were never any good players on pvx, lol 68.101.137.129 14:36, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

From Frosty with love
Good luck merging, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, , builds and making the build look good, k. It's a bad idea, it will look bad, just, N to the O.

Frosty.

I thought it was worth posting cause it looks like he actually counted them all. - Misery  Is  Friendly   14:38, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * i think it was more aimed at the R/Mo builds, but yeh that's a lot. <font color="#4F94CD"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#9400D3">Sysop   14:44, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * looking through those i think the ones that need merging are: 3 4 5 7 8 9 13, the rest have different setups/need different atts. <font color="#4F94CD"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#9400D3">Sysop   14:47, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * IA (7) needs different atts too. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]<small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  14:52, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * fixed. That's 6 builds compared to frosty's 14.... <font color="#4F94CD"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#9400D3">Sysop   14:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)