User talk:Xtreme1ne/Build:Mo/any 145hp SoJ/PI/Archive3

First Archive

Second Archive

You do some terrible archiving--Relyk 01:22, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I am trying. I did it before give me time to do it...Thanks but I don't need your help I would rather learn on my own.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 01:23, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Your creating new pages that have to be deleted now -_- so i think it would be a good idea if i fixed it before you screw up more--Relyk 01:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't you hold my hand....I want to learn....I am begging to understand this "process". It is clear that it is "who you know" not "what you know" to do anything on this PvX.  I gather information and process it so I can TRY.  You have been here a long time...I have been here a week so don't you dare attack me and how I am trying.  I would never stoop to such a low level by preventing someon on how to learn.  You sir are a discrace and will be the cause of this site being deleted.  I have done nothing wrong but try a carry myself on the up.  Being the new guy isn't easy and you make it even worse.  Tell me how to do things when I ask...don't sit there an "to tough for you I will do it rookie" attitude.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 01:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Protect?
This dung beetle party in a pile of shit gets increasingly annoying and worst of all I dont see it ending any time soon so I suggest protecting this page from editing, it is pointless anyway. --Anonimous. D: 01:29, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I concur. You all have an hour to puke about this and it's getting protected. ~ Big  [[Image:Big sadface sig.PNG]]  sysop  01:31, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If I can't talk about it then there is no point in having it up.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 01:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly, you are talking about the build, not discussing it. You've spent a whole week touting your build and refusing to listen to people, which you've made painfully obvious by your trolling. So far your contributions in the past week have been counterproductive. In all my time on wiki, I've only archived a talk page once btw; I've made some mistakes, but I didn't bitch about it. There's a steep learning curve on this site, suck it up and deal with it. Be a little maturer and respect others on the community, if only grudgingly. Anet may have killed GW, but the people on PvXwiki aren't killing the site--Relyk 02:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been discussing it and have been listening and showing everyone why it is better/different. You are the one not listening.  Just cause I am able to tell people why I consider it a better build, cause they asked, and then there is suppose to be a counter argument saying that won't work cause......that never happens.  It's just a roller coster that goes on and on and it is pissing the admin and sysop.  Not just your fault but you are adding to the cause.  I didn't "bitch" about my mistakes I said I was learning.  You have to mind your own unless you got something to contribute.  But because of this now I will be unable to talk to others that were interrested in this.  Yah yah yah...who was interrested.  Don't bother relpying I don't care for your talk.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 02:16, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't bitch about being corrected ;)--Relyk 02:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah you don't need to you are a natural asshole.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 03:33, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * being an asshole is accepted on pvxwiki, as long as you can back it up by not failing.[[image:Unreal_sig_1.png‎ ]][[Image:Cute mc puppies.jpg|19px]] 03:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That is fine but he has to live with it.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 04:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to do so--76.121.91.97 07:33, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Xtreme you say your build is:
 * Better - no it isn't.
 * Different - not really its just badly written ripoff of 55 SoA. Being different doesnt make it good and from what I see "different" was never considered as factor to vet any build here.
 * Thats why it got trashed, accept it or get lost. --Anonimous. D: 11:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow that was a solid argument. I think I will say "I know you are so what am I?".  WTF.  I told you the reasons and it was tl;dr for you.  Next time try it and see for yourself before making a dumb ass comment like that.  Have something solid to say or get lost.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 12:42, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If 3 archives worth of reasoning aint solid for you, you are dumb ignorant noob. --Anonimous. D: 12:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey wait that was my point.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 12:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * kk, you are dumb ignorant noob. --Anonimous. D: 13:01, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

To everyone - PvX:CHILL. ~  Tycn   [a]   12:49, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * TY[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 12:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Directed at you also. --Anonimous. D: 13:01, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Anon, I recommend not talking to Xtreme anymore. I think he's rage quit for the most part and I'm assuming that if we stop feeding his desire for attention that he'll shut up and leave. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] 13:45, 15 March 2009
 * KJ however strange it was I wanted to thank you. I didn't mean for it to go as bad as that with you.  I thank you for helping....and at times in a strange manner.  I was trying to be friendly for at the begging you asked to get insulted back...I did it (finally) but it didn't work.  So I would like to say I am sorry if you didn't read that already.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 14:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Xtreme, I'm sorry but I just can't understand what you're trying to say. It seems like you may have been trying to be condescending, but I can hardly understand your typing. Please....please, learn to use grammar or take some English classes (if you're not a native speaker), or you simply wont be able to contribute here. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] 14:10, 15 March 2009
 * Okay then.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 14:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments
Since this is in user space please don't comment here unless it responds to the build. 14:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine. I'm sick of this, so let's settle this.  You and me are going to see how long it takes for each of us to kill a group of foes with our invincimonk builds.  The groups must be foes that are usually farmed with 55 monks.  No obscure shit that nobody farms.  There is no point in farming that.  Meet me in Droknar's Forge AD1.  14:37, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * PM me when you're there if you choose to sow up. My ign is Lyssan Reaper.  14:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * [[Image:There is a windmill in my beard-300x218.jpg]]. Issue is resolved. [[Image:Jebus.JPG|66px]] 14:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Jebus your beard is manlier than his, but I'd still tap that. And who's argument is invalid? Mine or Xtreme's? 14:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just basically telling you all to stfu. [[Image:Jebus.JPG|66px]] 15:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That was fun Lyssan.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 15:38, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

omg im best farm ur both bad my bild best bt i no tel u it cz it get nerf but u nobs cnt farm sht like me i chalenge u 2 farmin duel but u wil lose i am king of farm hahhahaahaa luker Rawrawr Dinosaur 15:54, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Rawr, Xtreme would whoop you ten different ways, dont even start--Relyk 06:12, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * If I was able to find a place that 55 can't farm or where a variant of this build farms faster/better would it be considered at least a variant of the SoA invicimonk? As an FYI I am not being pigheaded I am taking in all comments to understand why this is inferior.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 13:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Its not really inferior to anything, but its a variant of a current build. If we posted every variant of a build on the wiki, we'd be about 6-7 times larger than we are now. Its easier to say "take off a superior or two on your 55" than to write up a new build. [[Image:Jebus.JPG|66px]] 18:45, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * IF a variant means different skills (SH & Blessed Aura), Different health, Different weapon set and different casting of skills then okay this is a variant. I understand what you are saying but this way no one sees the build and continue to use 55 rather than getting an option.  Besides that IF I was able to show that this build can farm different areas a 55 would couldn't THEN can it be vetted?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 19:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Variants are different skills, you can play a 55 monk with 105 health, doesn't mean you should, health doesn't really change much. The 55 monk concept is using protective spirit and low health to become invincible, it doesn't necessarily mean you need 55 health. It's the same with 600 monk, monks don't have 600 health, it's just based on how spirit bond functions. The only reason 600 monk is different from 55 monk is it heals all its damage. What you can do is add a section to the 55 monk guide about basing builds around shielding hands to become invincible, there's no need for the actual build :)--Relyk 00:55, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Funny thing everytime I try it gets deleted cause it isn't a vetted build...AKA trash build.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 16:58, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So how can I post it under the invicimonk?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 19:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cane anyone help me?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 00:09, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Go to the invincimonk page, press "edit" and make your changes. Add in things like "go 105, 145, or 160 hp and bring Shielding Hands to farm mobs with mass degen or lifesteal". Preferably in the variants. Oh and dont post an actual variant of the build with attribs and all on the page, just talk about some possible variants, like this build. [[Image:Jebus.JPG|66px]] 00:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Approve? I wanted to keep it short.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:21, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody answered the question..."Besides that IF I was able to show that this build can farm different areas a 55 would couldn't THEN can it be vetted?"[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 18:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

This vs the standard 55
It seems like this would be no better than the standard 55 build using mostly the same skills... and Pain inverter does not work well with SoJ, as the KDs reduce the dmg PI can redirect. What reasons do you have for running this over the 55 build? Captain Bulldozer Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 19:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? ......Why would you draw more attention to this page? /sigh [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] 20:04, 1 April 2009
 * I asked him for it.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 20:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Captain it is a different concept using Blessed aura to keep hands up as long a possible. Since the 10% damage reduction is a percentage it dosen't matter if you have 55 105 145....it always does 10% that means 11 hit in a row you die no matter what health you have.  How one deals with the percentage is how this build differs.  I say take no damage by casting hands right after Spirit.  Most 55's recover the damage loss by using breeze.  As we both know that is fine but conditions and hexes build up health reduction and makes it harder for 55 to keep up with the degen.  Plus with the more health it will protect against health drains and no -50 health grim in left hand that leaves open for other focus item like 20/20% protect increase so the hands can be cast without a delay.  I understand at first it seems worse but with closer investigation one can see that this takes no damage.  As for PI is used for Bladed Axxate in UW and the shield is used for everything else.  Granted if I had factions I would use Ray but I find shield good against spred out range guys.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 20:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * come on captain, why did you have to do that --Oj ▲ mo  20:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Damnit Captain. You got Xtreme typing long, poorly-written paragraphs again that no one will read.......if I could ban people or protect pages, bad things would be happening right now. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] 20:53, 1 April 2009
 * Ignore the trolls Captain I asked you[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 21:17, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol sorry if I reignited some sort of flame here... but you guys are under no obligation to read anything. So go somewhere and eat it. Now, as for this build, I understand the concept, I just think its inferior to using a 55 with Shield of absorption. But yeah, its is somewhat functional, I just think you can do better. Hell, even use an E/Mo with prot spirit and stoneflesh will out perform this in my opinion. [[Image:Bulldozer1.jpg|24px]] Captain Bulldozer Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 05:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Every time I see this build in recent changes I feel like killing myself. Everyone just stfu already, leave this page be, and spare my miserable life from further pain.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 05:31, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I <3 this page ^^--Relyk 07:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Regardless, someone protect this page, everything has been gone over in the last two archives and there is no point in posting on this talk page anymore.--Relyk 07:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Why do you guys care so much? It is in my user space....it's not going anywhere and not protected.  I am talking to someone that I asked an opinon about so stuff it.  Captain I was thinking about the stoneflesh as well.  Can you perma that?  I thought you aren't able to keep it up forever?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 10:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahhh Captain I remeber why I didn't use Stoneflesh cause of the 2 sec cast time. Gets interupted all the f'ing time.  So I dropped that like a bad habit.  With this build as well I can go and get pretty much any eleite skill cause the 2ndary dosen't matter.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * YOu can maintain Stoneflesh at all times, yes. Enchanting mod is needed, and glyph of swiftness makes it easier, but not really needed. As for it getting interrupted, the kind of build we're talking about here is countered by interrupts/KDs, enchantment stripping and life steal. It also is bad against non-melee foes for the most part. Simply put, you can't really use it vs a mob with those things, so the long cast time of stoneflesh isn't such a big thing. There are several decent places to use such a build, Minister Cho's estate HM, Oola's lab, outside the marketplace, undead farms or the luxon sins are all good examples of where it can be used, although you may need to change things up a bit depending on where you go. [[Image:Bulldozer1.jpg|24px]] Captain Bulldozer Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 17:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it common to solo vanquish?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 13:43, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not only is it not common, but generally speaking its not possible. There are a few zones/missions that can be done solo, but in general you won't be able to. Take H/H instead... just about everything in the game can be done with H/H. [[Image:Bulldozer1.jpg|24px]] Captain Bulldozer Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 17:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 600/smite with a hero (technically solo) can vanquish quite a lot actually -- Star of Exile  [[Image:Star star 2.png|19px]]  talk  </b> 17:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * H/H? 600/smite WITH a Hero isn't solo now is it?  What if I told you I did a vanquish with this concept...solo?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 17:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Vanquish a continent with it without spending 9001 days. Even then, it's much faster to just go Rayway or something else 8-man. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ive solo vanqd with a 55 as well, so stfu.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool where?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 18:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What is with this place? Why is speed such a big deal....helllo video games are suppose to waste time!  It didn't take that long.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 18:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Cursed Lands I think. Whichever zone connects to the one outside Beetletun to the west. And speed is a big deal because it's stupid to spend 3 hours doing what can be done in 20 minutes.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:28, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That is what I did and Nebo Terrace. Solo is better cause you get more stuff and coin.  I would rather solo then me and hero's with henchies...that blows.  Take a party with you then you get noobs that wreck the run.  How did you cope with the degn?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 18:33, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The speed factor is important, as Life says. But still, if you have a build that CAN do something like vanquish an entire zone solo albeit slowly, that doesn't make it a bad build. It makes it a build which is perhaps not optimal, but if the player CHOOSES to spend their own time doing it a certain way I see nothing wrong with that. In many ways GW builds are about possibilities as much as they are about optimality. But most players will still prefer a faster method, because it will be more profitable and more repeatable. The build in question here is probably about as fast as the standard 55 setup, but I see it as being less stable (though to be fair it can survive more in certain places where there might be small amounts of life stealing) and therefor not as good. [[Image:Bulldozer1.jpg|24px]] <font color="Blue">Captain Bulldozer <font color = "Black" font size = 1>Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 18:39, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Great stuff...can you tell me more on what you ment by "less stable"....also I am assumeing you are talking about the 55 SoA monk correct?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 18:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I was farming large amounts of undead outside Beetletun so I had an optimal build. Mending+Breeze+Shielding Hands+SoA. Had to wand chained clerics or w/e so RoF would heal like 2 instead of 80.  Life  18:44, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Life Sorry about that edit btw. What about the degen?  I was getting like 7 to 8 degen that is why I have my health high.  How did you deal with such high degen without dieing?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 18:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He just told you... health regen counters health degen... [[Image:Bulldozer1.jpg|24px]] <font color="Blue">Captain Bulldozer <font color = "Black" font size = 1>Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 19:01, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep sorry there was an editing problem didn't read that til after my post....[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 19:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay then he took an extra skill slot up with hands+Breez+SoA. That means My build would do it quicker cause it will have another spot for smite damage.  That is the problem with solo need a balance.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 19:22, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I couldve dropped mending for somehing like a pve skill, but at that time I didn't have EotN.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:31, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So what you are saying is you use sheild hands and SoA at 55 health to prevent all damage where I use Blessed aura and hands to prevent all damage. So I have less casting time where you have one extra spell to cast every 5 sec or so.  Is that right?  I am use to 55 using breeze and mending to recover damage.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 21:21, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * On a 55 there's really no reason to use SoA and Healing hands unless you're trying to tank a really large number of foes. Soa reduces all damage done after one hit which is easily recovered from regen. Healing hands has more of a downtime and so is less efficient, except for covering the downtime of SoA... and the timing there is tricky. Your bar doesn't really do anything quicker than the standard 55 setup as far as I can see, they seem to be roughly on par. Thus yours is at best a variant where yo don't use 55 health (but yours is less stable in some ways... so not really better). [[Image:Bulldozer1.jpg|24px]] <font color="Blue">Captain Bulldozer <font color = "Black" font size = 1>Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 21:41, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I follow everything you are saying up to the point where my build is "less stable". I don't understand that.  I get the fact that I can decrease the downtime on Sheileding hands so it is virtually perma.  %20 of the time it will be perma..the rest of the time you have to get hit 11 times in a 1/2 sec window.  You will recover the damage cause of high divine favour.  Furthermore the casting is 1/4 sec and lasts 14.5 sec.  The other build you need to cast 2 spells one at 1 sec casting time lasting 5 sec and the other 1/4 sec lasting 10 sec.  Of course all these spells have to be cast AFTER Sheilding aura of course it increase the fact that you can cast Soa or hands after spirit.  I would say mine is more stable for it takes less casting (interrupts) and is close to perma with higher health.  btw I enjoy this converstation.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 22:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Some numbers for ya
X I think your numbers are off a bit. With 16 Divine favor, blessed aura and a 20% enchantment mod, healing hands will last 12.56 seconds (that's 8 times 1.57) Leaving you with nearly 3 seconds downtime. Getting hit 11 times in 3 seconds is pretty easy in HM, though it can be avoided by only taking on small mobs. With prot prayers at say 14, and Blessed Aura (with divine at 16) and a 20% enchant mod, SoA will last 10.99 seconds, having .01 seconds down time if you time it right. For a solo farmer, you will likely want protection lower than 14, but maybe not if you're not that attached to healing. Even if you take protection all the way down to 10, SoA will only have half as much downtime as your healing hands does. Thus I judge SoA to be more reliable. Also, I still see no reason why your setup would be better than a 55... why not just use that 5th sup rune? <font color="Blue">Captain Bulldozer <font color = "Black" font size = 1>Don't TELL me that you're right... prove it. ''' 00:12, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I do run Blessed Aura btw....The amount of agro outside Beetle is pretty ridiculous. I got pissed at dying so I decided to throw on SoA as well. I tried with just hands and got raped repeatedly in the downtime.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 01:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wut builds we talking about?--Relyk 06:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Life I didn't have a problem with that but I know if it is a problem it can be annoying. I had problems with interrupts all the time so I used this build.  When I run into problems like that I take Glyph of swiftness....you took SoA.  I find that the interrupts don't happen on Gylph so that is why I take that.  I mean Essence of Celerity would help as well if you need the extra skill slot but I like saving that for the UW.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Captain The extra 5th rune would take you down to 105 health. I have done that as well and it beefs up your Smite by a point but your survivability goes down due to degen.  I like to try and keep one spell for degen (breeze) to save skill slots for damage.  I don't like the fact of "wasting" your off hand weapon slot for the use of a grim when you can use a 20/20 instead.   If I spent a lot of money to make my armour look cool then why have an ugly grim?  You math is right it just looks like it is shorter.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:52, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for your input and comment again any time. I will keep looking for a place so I can use this build where a 55 can't.  Until then this page will remain in user space forever.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Captain I figured out why my numbers were off....it was the KD on sheild. That is why this build is possible.  When KD they can't attack or cast spells.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 01:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

This Build
I have tried all of the sujestions and I have figured out why this build is different and why it works well.
 * I swapped out SoJ For Ray. At first I thought you guys were right.  Turns out that the KD from SoJ was important.  When you are on your ass you can't cast spells or hit.  So the 11 hits in the 2 sec window is harder to do.  That combined with Breeze increases the number of hits even more.  KD helps this build survive.
 * Now you say it is slower than Ray. This is true when you are able to "ball" up everybody.  What about the rangers that attack?  Peg them off one at a time.  That takes longer then casting SoJ.  I was then told only go where you can "ball" up.  That just isn't the case with this build.  There are limits with this build in places it can go but it opens up more areas that can be solo'd then with a 55.
 * Now you say just take a 600 build. Well I tired that too and it can't take mobs.  10 hits and it drops with you knowing= death.
 * You don't have to run this build at 145. 105 is common and easyier to get to but in some heavy degen areas 145 helps.  This build can do the UW...Raport farm...troll farm...hydra farm...Ice golem farm....IDS farm...vanquish.  If you run into problem areas use a Essence of Celerity and be invincible barring enchant removal.  I use Breeze to cover enchant.
 * Further more this only uses core and prof to do everything. EOTN skills were just added to help in the UW.

Can't beleive I got convinced that this build isn't better....well I tried what you said....this isn't as limited as the others.

Yes I know tl;dr. 01:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I read it. You grossly underestimate a 600. Like, it's incredibly sad how much you underestimate a 600. Dunno who suggested RoJ over SoJ, but generally SoJ is better. It's true that SoJ makes it easier to survive, but it's plenty easy without.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 02:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I tried it...really I gave it 3 days of attention. I am not saying it dosen't have it's place but I found in mobs it fails quickly.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 02:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Dude, wtb SoA.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 02:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That I didn't try tbh.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 02:41, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Where the hell did you get your 600/smite build from? SoA is a staple on any 600 bar.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 02:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ what i was going to say...600 is meant for taking insurmountable mobs.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 04:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, now we know why you keep insisting your builds is "superior" to other options we already have. You don't even run the correct skills, and that's really retarded. BTW, you probably decided relyk was worth believing(that part about roj > soj when it comes to solo farming). Please don't in the future.220.255.7.185 07:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow you don't even know this wiki... Spirit_Bonder & Spirit Bonder Guide Where is the "Staple" Where is it in the bars?  IF it is so nessary why isn't it in the bar?  WHERE IS SoA?  Besides a caption it isn't there...not needed.  I would of given it more attention if it was in the bar....god.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 10:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Still on this...Jesus let it go. ~ Big  [[Image:Big sadface sig.PNG]]  sysop  10:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You have just proven yourself to be blind, retarded, ignorant, stupid and insistant on being so. Please look at the 8th skill on the bar in the spirit bonder build which pretty much shot yourself in the foot.220.255.7.132 10:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Just human...we all make mistakes and the jackass is the guy who rubs it in your face.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 10:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Should be mentioned in the usage.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 10:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you don't give the jackass the opportunity, the jackass can't rub it in your face. You can only blame yourself for mistakes resulting from your own stupidity.220.255.7.139 10:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You just proved my point. As I said "the jackass is the guy who rubs it in your face".[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * tbh you should stop trying to turn everything everyone says to your favor, it doesnt work on the internet --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  11:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I am brutally honest to pretty much anyone, so it really isn't personal. BTW, it escapes your notice at least a million times that we are not saying the build or the concept is bad; rather we are saying a separate buildpage should not be needed to document a variant of an existing working concept. Because you kept going on and off like a broken recorder refusing to accept this fact, naturally there are many frustrated trying to reason with you.220.255.7.136 11:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand and have modified the page....I have done that. I do read what eveyone is saying...3 archives worth...I have read it a few times.  I am saying this works differently for I have tired it.  But that is fine....funny thing is everyone is calling me ingorant when I have attempted and tried the builds but have you attempted this?  I find that it works differently.  FURTHERMORE being brutally honest is one thing how you go about saying (typing) it shows your true colours.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Oj...I thought it worked fine....guess not.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 11:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This is why you are ignorant. You claim you understand what we are trying to say, yet you act in a totally different manner in comparison. We are saying a working variant(your 145 hp monk) of an working existing concept(the vetted 55 hp monk), aka friends of the 55 monk, do not need a separate page. You could simply leave a note on the 55 monk page stating higher health should be run in places with degen. However, from your lack of any trace of intelligence spanning across 3 archives I wouldn't expect anything even somewhat logical to penetrate that thick skull of yours.
 * Have you ever considered going for a brain transplant? Because people with severe mental disabilities(mizzouman and friends) like you never last long in PvX.220.255.7.138 11:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Learn to read before raging.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @IP why do you care so much this is in user space?[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 12:38, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ask yourself the same question --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  18:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @IPbtw. otherwise gtfo[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 19:02, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you have 3 archives of users raging at you, don't you think the problem is YOU? You didn't even bother to take the time out to try out the 600 build with the correct bar, then proceeded to post all sorts of ridiculous stuff like "no soa wasn't on the bar it doesn't work because I am dumb, and no one taught me how to use a single shred of common sense". You always think the problem is caused by others, although I guess all stupid people do. Idiots like you get trolled everywhere, no matter whether it is mainspace, userspace or life, because they deserve it. Get smarter, start understanding why all this is caused single-handedly by your own insensibility. 220.255.7.215 19:04, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

{ec}If you read what I said I basically said I fucked up about the 600. But I guess you are blind to that. IF you bothered to read the archives you would notice that I gave sound arguments but I guess you were focusing on the flame...most dumb people do. Since you are so smart why didn't you answer the question? Just shows what your true intentions are....and I am not bothered by it. Go rage on someone that it would affect. 19:12, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Congrats you fucked up. Ip is stronger than you, just take a chill pill and dont visit this page.....76.188.100.220 19:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * FTW Bye!!!![[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 19:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

BTW
''Exactly. I'm not mad with Xtreme. It's the rest of the 'experienced' ones here. LEAVE THE FUCKING PAGE ALONE. He thinks it works. Let him think that. You all have been trying to convince him for over a week. He doesn't agree. Let it be. Lame discussion is lame. The build has been trashed. He says it works, and from what I've read, it does. He's defended the build over and over. This Pve shits getting so redundant and childish. ~ Big sysop 01:12, 15 March 2009 (UTC)''

So gtfo 19:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the very fact you "fucked up about the 600" shows how little intelligence you have, since if it was otherwise, you would know how to copy-paste the template code into game.
 * If you have 3 archives of DIFFERENT people arguing the same points over and over again, it only shows you are adamant you are right even when you are not. From all these posts thus far, you merely pretend to listen to others, you don't actually do.
 * You manipulate peoples' words to your own advantage, and paint yourself the victim a little too much. That only works if you are right in the first place, my dear, and you never did yourself justice by insisting you are right even though you were proven wrong.
 * Just ask people to truthfully tell you how they think about you, I bet you at least 90% of the active users here find that you are a manipulative eyesore.
 * You are not the one who decides whether your arguments are sound, other users are the accurate judges of that. As they say, bystanders see the situation best.
 * 220.255.7.164 19:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * BTW, good job being disrespectful to a sysop. He was nice enough not to lock the page even though it is policy to do so. This is why pretty much everyone dislikes you. 220.255.7.164 19:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good job on warping the comments. Try reading more.  I admitted to my mistake and yet you still bring that as an argument stating my intelligence.  I admitted my mistakes and more of a man for it.  You like to have typing Diarrhea and yak about others rather than yourself.  "my dear" you sound like an old lady.  When do I care about 90% of users here if they think I am wrong.  This whole site is based on "who you know not what you know".  So go kiss someone's ass if you want a build vetted.  And if you would read the quote I left cause I knew you didn't read it...I wasn't the one stating "he's defended the build over and over".  Damn you guys are just blind and I can't get you to understand.  This build works and works well on a different concept.  Anyway go somewhere else and warp what they are saying....for I never insulted any sysop or admin....have a nice day.[[Image:Xtreme Hunter.png]] 20:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good job being a total fuckwit, and stop using the fucking "you're blind" argument, it got old after the first over nine thousand times --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  00:42, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You SAY you have read it, you obviously get the wrong end of the stick with everything,if you read back you have 'been the jackass who rubs it in someones face', now you say it is only human to make mitsaeks, in all respect i bow to your extreme awesomesauce hunter skillz, but i ask you to make your mind up and accept that occasionally you are wrong! 86.132.208.180 15:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Stop
Seriously. It's a variant of the 55 monk that uses higher health to abuse Shielding Hands. We understand, it helps with degeneration-heavy areas. So quit yer bitchin, it's clogging up RC. 02:17, 16 April 2009 (UTC)