Archive talk:Team - 2 Man Racway

Pls rate and just talk about my first build in pvx :) --God Kamil 19:25, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * not trying to be mean is or say that your bad or your build is bad, but this build is truly inferior to so many other builds out their now-a-days, and when do u find 2 paragons in the same party who happen to have both the paragon heros. Just saying you should find builds that are alot easier to form. Trapping Moons Love TML Dhammer.jpg 19:57, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have done FoW on hm with that :)--God Kamil 20:46, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * te build looks like it has some potential but sadly tere isnt many paragons that can run this or form a part for this :(--Jpuzimaki13 23:25, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * RoJ is random as shit. Life   Guardian  06:50, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Having done FoW isnt really a reference since it's a really easy area, even on HM [[File:Tyrael.png]]--(Talk) 09:05, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * RoJ isnt random it is for fire fighter and "They are on fire!", and he removes hexes. Is here anyone who can try that and then tell if it's bad or good? :)--God Kamil 13:33, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your bringing smiters boon just for smite hex and searing flames is better for burning66.240.8.178 14:31, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * You are right I have to change it:)--God Kamil 18:34, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. Did you change your mind, or did you just not get around to making the SF ele build, yet? --Supernick530 22:53, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Name
Build has been moved from Archive:Team - 2 Man Racway &rarr; Archive:Team - 2 Man Racway, since all the other build have capitals. - Athrun Feya  - 16:13, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that really important?:)--God Kamil 16:44, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * yeah. i have ocd. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 16:56, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * and it's pvxwiki policy-- Relyk  talk  21:40, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * OCPD is probably a better fit; OCD is a fairly debilitating disorder. ــѕт.  мıкε  21:51, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Paragon Teams
Have been tried time and time again, although, being a Hero team, this is probably worse. This hasn't any damage (Asuran Scan, Great Dwarf Weapon, etc.); most of the Paragons will never beat 55 DPS (even with Orders). I'd make the second Paragon player optional (the build is too restrictive, otherwise, and Angelic Bond is a waste). Song of Purification>Cautery Signet. You also have redundant amounts of Burning, and any more than two Paragon Heroes is overkill, tbh. Put "Fall Back!" on your Imbagon, and take two Motigon Heroes (one SoR, the other SoP) with Volley, Distracting Shot, and "GftE!". The rest of your team should include the ER Orders, a Bomber, perhaps some offensive Spirits, your Smiter, etc. Anthem of Weariness sucks compared to Enfeebling Blood, because your Heroes aren't going to spread Weakness, and if they do, you're doing it wrong; you can also get Weaken Armor and Mark of Pain while you're investing into Curses. Aegis is good. Ray of Judgment is also unreliable without any melee at all (hence the bomber). ــѕт. мıкε  21:51, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * User:St._Michael/sandbox and User:St._Michael/sandbox for some ideas. ــѕт.  мıкε  21:54, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, alone paragon wont deal more then 55 DPS, because paragons dont rely on dmg. But on Master of dmg I ve done 180 DPS and the bigest was 210. Angelic Bond isnt necessary, it can be changed. Personnaly I dont like Song of Purification but if you tell its good I can put it in place of Angelic Bond and change Cautery Signet for other elite. Imo fall back is waste on imbagon. I always play this [Imbagon] but I wanted standar for bigger dmg so i kicked of Spear of fury, but I never use Fall back, Imo it isnt necessary, there are better skills to heal and speed boost isnt really useful. Ill change something with RoJ, I will make N/Rt healer with some curses as you said. Thank you all for your opinions. this is important for me:) I play para for long time and i want to show people other ways to funny play. People only use this what is fast, I mean Discords or Sabway. GW is game, games are for enjoyment not only makeing it faster than other, playing with paragon is really great and funny think. P.S. I forgot: I dont like paragons with bows and I wont change this point :) --God Kamil 08:47, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Stand Your Ground on an imba doesn't make sense. Life   Guardian  09:00, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ There is literally nothing gained by it. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 09:14, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

needs more minions and more explosions. Trapping Moons Love 14:53, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe Animate Flesh Golem? It can be on 25 lvl with buffs it can work as melee atacker --God Kamil 19:28, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Just make the "Other proffesions variants" the main team. There isn't really any reason to run two Paragon players (you could chain "TNtF!" or use the Kurzick and Luxon versions of "SY!", to trigger Finale of Restoration more often, but that still wouldn't really be worth it). You could even run a Scythe or Dagger Paragon and someone other physical with "SY!" for the same effect. I'd also drop Cautery Signet, Burning Refrain, "They're on Fire!", Anthem of Flame, Anthem of Disruption, Blazing Finale, Mark of Fury, "Stand Your Ground!", Bladeturn Refrain and "Brace Yourself!" (won't often be useful, tbh). One or two copies of "Fall Back!", Aegis and Splinter Weapon would be great, too, although not strictly necessary. Tbh, you don't really need any more Paragons than your Imbagon, two Motigons and the Stunning Strike, so the Cautery Signet Paragon could be dropped for Build:Rt/any Signet of Spirits Hero with Aegis or something else useful. ــѕт. мıкε  19:58, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ty for advices very much. I work hard at that build. Today I vanqed Magus Stones with RoJ nuker monk. We have done after 1h 4 min. Was very nice. I still think Fall Back is not good variant. Imo speed boosts arent really needed :P. Ill make lots of changes at build. I promise Ill lead 2 man racway to Great category :) I just need some time. I have lots of tests at school now so I play little less, but I'm working at that :) Ill add some spirits rit healing and weapon skills and Ill try to accommodate this build not only for 2 paras but for para and other random proffesion, it needs time to test it in different conditions :) --God Kamil 20:10, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Chorus of Restoration could be put back in, but it'll only trigger on half of your team, and Heroes spam it, so although it may provide those 4 party members with lotsa healing, the Motigons will have their damage reduced quite a bit. Anthem of Envy also triggers on Spirits' attacks, so that's 8 triggers per use, assuming the target is over 50% during each hit. You also get dual Aegis, a high-specced Splinter Weapon, dual "Fall Back!" (unless you want to drop the one on the Imbagon) and more Hex and condition removal. Empathic Removal might be overkill, now, though. >.> You might also want Protective Spirit and/or Shield of Absorption on either the Necro or the Rit. ــѕт. мıкε  20:25, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Complete rework
I'll do one soonish.

I want to try to make the second human build variable. Obviously you'll need a paragon (or, perhaps, a SY/Dslash warrior) in the first spot, but beyond that a human should be able to take pretty much whatever for the second and just trade out heroes as needed.

-- Armond {&#123;Bacon}} 21:36, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, just about any physicals should work, as long as at least one carries "SY!"; shit like EBSoH and GDW are nice, though. Also, I have a quick rework in the last section. We might be able to replace Archive:Team - 2 Man Physical Support with this, actually. The fact that the only physicals would be the players kind of sucked. ــѕт.  мıкε  21:55, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done Bogroots today with monk Roj variant. This build has one problem I observed. Raptors block so much and deal too much dmg and we died few times. I think that I should make build only with monk healer or ER infuse health, but after Ill make some dungeons on hm Ill see what is bad and what good :)I agree that spirits are good but I feel a lack of burning. It is good because they are on fire gives 30 % less dmg and deal quite nice degen when mobs have it all the time. I think physical is not necessary. Mobs deal really small dmg with all buffs and there is no reason to make someone like tank for the first line. --God Kamil 21:12, April 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ritualist optional: Displacement, Disenchantment, Dissonance.
 * Motigon optional: DA, Empathic, Expel, SoP (though lol condition removal with MBAS taking out five conditions at once), Shatter Storm (for oldschool), maybe Cruel Spear (for normal mode, probably).
 * Obviously, the motigons don't need to put much into command since GftE is just there for finale resto.
 * Mark of Pain is wishful thinking with 20r, so I traded it for enchantment removal.
 * The humans need at least one copy of SY and res sig, since there's no fast reses here. They should also both, ideally, be physicals and thus splinter targets. That said, any human build that abuses PvE skills and the area's mechanics would probably do. (Might even want a monk for elite areas, zomg.)
 * Also considering dropping the MM for another commandagon, adding in Chorus of Resto to both motigons (probably over GftE), and putting GftE over FB on the first commandagon (and FB [and, come to that, bladeturn] on the second commandagon). This second guy could bring any of the elites the second motigon looks at.
 * -- Armond {&#123;Bacon}} 17:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ritualist optional: Displacement, Disenchantment, Dissonance.
 * Motigon optional: DA, Empathic, Expel, SoP (though lol condition removal with MBAS taking out five conditions at once), Shatter Storm (for oldschool), maybe Cruel Spear (for normal mode, probably).
 * Obviously, the motigons don't need to put much into command since GftE is just there for finale resto.
 * Mark of Pain is wishful thinking with 20r, so I traded it for enchantment removal.
 * The humans need at least one copy of SY and res sig, since there's no fast reses here. They should also both, ideally, be physicals and thus splinter targets. That said, any human build that abuses PvE skills and the area's mechanics would probably do. (Might even want a monk for elite areas, zomg.)
 * Also considering dropping the MM for another commandagon, adding in Chorus of Resto to both motigons (probably over GftE), and putting GftE over FB on the first commandagon (and FB [and, come to that, bladeturn] on the second commandagon). This second guy could bring any of the elites the second motigon looks at.
 * -- Armond {&#123;Bacon}} 17:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * -- Armond {&#123;Bacon}} 17:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is actually one of the few scenarios where Anthem of Envy is really worth it, because you've got 4-5 Spirits and 4-5 physical characters, for up to 200 damage per use. Anthem of Weariness is kind of redundant with Enfeebling Blood. Shadowsong will require a better split if you're looking for damage, if not, even 2 Communing works, although the blind will be on random targets, so it may not even be useful. Probably take Rip Enchantment over Jaundiced Gaze on the MM, because you need 8 in Blood to hit the breakpoints for Jaundiced Gaze's quicker casting and cost reduction of at least 6 (for a net cost of 4, instead of Rip's 5). They're casting times and recharges are the same. Displacement also definitely wouldn't be worth it with low Communing and minions running around. ــѕт.  мıкε  21:31, May 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Bah. I was assuming ANet had made skills logical. (Thus, Envy and Displacement would only affect party members, not everything on the goddamn map.)
 * Anthem Weary is backup for Enfeebling Blood (as is, to a point, Shadowsong). Once you run into condition removal, Enfeebling Blood alone isn't going to be enough for the SS. Also, melee damage prevention is nice in and of itself.
 * For the rit, I was thinking 11+1+1 channeling, 10+1 resto, 10+1 communing, dump spawning. I didn't check breakpoints, though (but I doubt you couldn't put majors/sups on the hero and still have it work fairly well). But if Displacement affects minions, fuck it, you're better off throwing Aegis or Smite Hex in there (and dropping Shadowsong for Bloodsong, probably, but :/ @ lack of conditions).
 * As for Rip, thanks, I just kind of copy-pasted Jaundiclskefhsdefd because it was easier than checking for better options.
 * I guess it'd be pretty cool if one of the human builds could spam conditions around. Oh, wait, better idea: Tainted MM! (It'd be fun, if nothing else.)
 * -- Armond {&#123;Bacon}} 22:21, May 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's going to be Poison and Bleeding from your MM, not to say that they're particularly reliable. Generally, I try to get a copy of Weaken Armor, too, but I'm not sure how it could fit. If worse comes to worst, you can always run Barbed Spear. >.> ــѕт.  мıкε  22:36, May 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Eh, they'll probably be enough for the SS. I just don't want to completely forget about having weakness and/or blind in the build because they're so effective at preventing 560+ damage power attacks. -- Armond {&#123;Bacon}} 22:50, May 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Would anyone mind doing the overhaul on the article itself so we can get this into testing? I'm willing to do corrections after, but finals are kind of sucking up my energy atm or I'd have done it a week ago. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 05:49, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

two specific player builds
makes lau sad... sure we cant change it a little? all that prot really needed when you're running an imba? its more than i usually run without one.. - Athrun Feya  - 13:23, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * See above section, and tell me if I should trade the MM for a commandagon. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 22:37, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, build needs so much prot because there are areas where physical prot isn't anough, for axample areas with raptors. there is problem with their block and imbagon can't make adrenaline and aegis is useful then. --God Kamil 15:44, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Run Discordway, Rigor Mortis or Enchantment removal, tbh. ــѕт.  мıкε  22:34, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * the builds posted above look ok, as long as it has enough redbarring. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 22:54, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Tested?
How to make build available to put in testing category and then in tested? Ive tested it in many places and it works really nice so what should I do to put it in tested category that ppl will (maybe) start to use it? --God Kamil 20:12, May 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * The build as it currently stands is bad. See the rewrite two sections up. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 03:28, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Rewrite version has Splinter Weapon 2 times and Enfeebling Blood and Anthem of Weariness - quite same skills. Btw I dont think this build is similar to paraway, it was made earlier :) and has other skills. Imo Paraway is quite like copy of my build :) --God Kamil 20:00, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can never have a enough Splinter Weapon. ــѕт.  мıкε  20:55, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't troll. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 01:10, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

I see lots of changes were made :) --God Kamil 12:47, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

WTF?
Why someone is changing build all the time? Bladeturn Refrain in commandagon sucks and it isnt needed, as same as Fall Back. There should be "Find Their Weakness!". Also 2nd motigon is changing all the time, 2nd wild throw isnt needed there should be Signet of Synergy.-- God  Kamil 11:23, May 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. Think before you suggest bad ideas.
 * Find Their Weakness is redundant with Vicious Attack. Since Vicious provides +damage and has a shorter recharge, it's better.
 * Bladeturn is there so you don't need to take a human monk, since the build doesn't have a lot of actual healing. It's not great, but it's better than nothing (and, of course, you can trade it out for something else if you don't need it).
 * Fall Back is ridiculously good at cutting down the time running between groups. If you and your buddy don't care about that, feel free to take it out, but more than a small number of people aren't that patient.
 * Second wild throw (and second blazing spear for that matter) aren't hugely necessary - it depends on the area. I'll add a note once I figure out how to word it.
 * Signet of Synergy is bad in a team where you're guaranteed to be enchanted all the time. It's not worth using here.
 * -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 03:57, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Pls RATE ...
this build needs only two more (good) ratings and I will be albe to put it in Great or Good category pls rate:) -- God  Kamil 12:18, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was my first build on pvx and now it is in Great category :D:D:D-- God  Kamil 11:00, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats because it's amazing. I love it. 74.96.99.140 13:24, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions
76.185.20.44 01:46, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Consider using Energizing Finale on the important backline (you would probably have to mirco this) for lots of energy gain from the 3(4) paragons' chants/shouts ending all the time. Even more effective with The Power Is Yours.
 * Spirit's Gift, even with a minimal investment in Spawning Power, makes for a decent AoE heal and condition removal for the paragons/other midline/backline.
 * Deadly Swarm is a simple and direct skill that deals pretty nice AoE damage, and is probably the best optional for the current MM bar because it makes things die faster.


 * Spirit's Gift at 4 (or even 6) spawning is kinda eh. You shouldn't need the healing, and the conditions should be covered by mbas/sop/empathic. Energizing Finale seems unnecessary - you have a spirit siphon rit and a necromancer, neither of them should be low on energy ever. Deathly Swarm might be an idea though, assuming you don't need the utility of the other options. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 03:49, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * The healing is already pretty nice. Finale of rest will be on 6/8 members or more, heroes use it really well. And with so many shouts ending, FoR will be healing for 60-100 hp / sec82.73.136.207 21:20, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * In some areas, for instance with Walrus-mesmers that steal your bucket (of energy) with esurge/burn/chaos storm/mind wrack, then energizing finale could help. But it's still pretty area specific. And the other optionals for the MM seem kinda of useless to me: It's better to use Rend over rip in most cases, because it's a 5 second recharge difference but a 4-5 enchantment difference, and in PvE where AI could care less about skill activation time, 1 second will get rupted just as easily as 2 seconds. Heroes tend to not use Foul Feast very well, and putting Splinter on the necro isn't very smart seeing as how it is already on the SoS rit and you would lose 2 very helpful monk skills. 76.185.20.44 21:16, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Blazing finale
+ ToF! for even more protection! and its a cheap source of dmg82.73.136.207 21:22, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. This has been discussed to death on the imbagon's talk page. Even if you were to put ToF in, Blazing Finale is a terrible way to spread the burning. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 00:59, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * It takes 2 slots and doesnt give positive effects, so it is waste. -- God Focused Anger.jpg Kamil 13:37, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, ANET tried to make ToF interesting, but the 2 main echoes the paragon has to apply burning aren't the great. The only time an imbagon should take ToF is if s/he's on a team with abunch of Searing Flames + Mark of Rodgort eles. Then it would work. Otherwise, no 76.185.20.44 21:22, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh I know place where it can be useful -> A time for Heros :)-- God Focused Anger.jpg Kamil 21:42, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Merge
Since the 7hero update and the ability to have 3 to 4 paragon heroes you can basically run this build on your own now. Therefore I see no reason why this should remain a 2-man build. I propose that this build should be merged with the 7-hero racway or else be deleted, thoughts? Vorpal  14:50, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say copy the dual motigon in this as a variant to the 7 hero one (which uses dual commandagons). Then probably archive this, since it's just "take another player instead of a hero". --  Toraen   talk  20:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)