Build talk:N/D Soul Taker Scythe

Soul Taker doesn't proc sacrifice for each foe hit with the scythe. The only multiple target/attack mechanic that I've seen working is dagger dual attacks. The attribute fuckery with the new weapons also means that you can't ignore the scythe mastery attribute so long as you expect to deal damage with basic attacks (iirc you'll be dealing about 10 damage on a dummy, but anyways, the damage is bad).

Redeeming factors for the N/D build is that you can bring Masochism and flash enchantments. Something like Grenth's Aura could make the scythe mastery points moot anyways. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 12:02, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Didn't want to take 10 energy enchants, but I guess with Soul Reaping energy management shouldn't be too much of a problem. Having trouble filling the bar without investing into Scythe mastery skills or too many enchants with a cast time though. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 13:12, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If going Wind Prayers, Signet of Mystic Speed is something to consider for instantly casting Masochism, Soul Taker and possibly Dark Aura. Some quick testing made it seem like heroes are bad at casting Dark Aura on the player, although a patch a few years ago was supposed to help with that. If microing Dark Aura on the player, then the points in Death Magic could be dropped completely.
 * Disregarding hero mechanics for a moment, my ideal bar would have 12 Wind Prayers and 12 Soul Reaping, with the core skills being Masochism, Soul Taker, Signet of Mystic Speed and Grenth's Aura. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 19:23, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * I continued to tune the build and added more information about gameplay and mechanics to the wiki article. For me the build works great! As I already wrote in the article, I play with the 7 Hero Mercenary Mesmerway (Melee Players SoS Prot Alternative) for extra damage. I currently get solo damage of 185 per second (without hero support), healing is also enough for me, FoW HM was no problem! --Nicsonx6 (talk) 20:52, 28 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Added another build variant with no scythe mastery. This makes the use of the Anniversary Scythe "Sufferer" mandatory. No more cast time since Signet of Mystic Speed is used. Life steal of Grenth's Aura gives more heal and armor ignoring damage. About 150 DPS. --Nicsonx6 (talk) 11:00, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

A few things. First, feel no pain just to cover vamp weapon degen is a waste of a slot. There is some synergy with chilling victory, but I think there are better options. Next, Mystic Vigor here is just bad; bad scaling, cast time + aftercast, long recharge for a teardown. Lastly, I've read on the Soul Taker wiki page that twin moon sweep does not double proc. I don't believe it yet, but if it's true then it's not mainbar, but an optional. I'm assuming that the +damage affects each attack of twin moon sweep, yet the life sac only happens once. This means TMS is still a good skill (double procs for everything but dark aura, including splinter weapon, MoP, barbs, etc, etc).

Lastly, Grenth's Aura should be mainbar 100%. It has fantastic synergy with the build and is a great cover enchantment, which you need desperately. Because Soul Taker is not your primary source of damage, you can change attributes to Death 11+1+1, Soul 7+1, Scythe 10, Wind 7. Willarddog (talk) 18:42, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Mainbar Suggestion
[build prof=Necromancer/Dervish Death=11+1+1 Soul=7+1 Scythe=10 Wind=7][Optional][Pious Assault][Optional][Grenth's Aura][Drunken Master][Soul Taker][Dark Aura][Masochism][/build] Slot 1: Utility slot
 * ( [["I Am Unstoppable!"] ) defense + anti-KD/cripple
 * ( [[Twin Moon Sweep@10] ) damage + sustain
 * ( [[Radiant Scythe@10] ) damage + energy

Slot 3: Tear-down flash enchantment
 * ( [[Rending Aura@8] ) low CD & AoE cracked armor.
 * ( [[Conviction@4] ) cheap + utility
 * ( [[Heart of Holy Flame@0] ) vs. undead.

Combine with Fevered Dreams mesmer for slots 3&4, raise Earth Prayers to 7:
 * ( [[Staggering Force@4] ) low CD & AoE cracked armor.
 * ( [[Aura of Thorns@4] ) cheap + anti-kite
 * Willarddog (talk) 18:42, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Mainbar Variant #1
[build prof=Necromancer/Dervish Death=11+1+1 Soul=7+1 Scythe=10 Wind=7][Feel No Pain][Chilling Victory][Victorious Sweep][Grenth's Aura][Drunken Master][Soul Taker][Dark Aura][Masochism][/build] Optionals
 * ( [["I Am Unstoppable!"] ) defense + anti-kd/cripple


 * Willarddog (talk) 18:42, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Twin Moon Sweep doesn't double proc Dark Aura. I'm the source of the info on the wiki, and I tested it again just in case I was insane the first ~3 times I tested it.
 * I agree with everything you said above, but I'm not sure of the attribute spread.
 * It also turns out that Grenth's Aura reduces the bonus damage from Soul Taker. That really sucks since I wanted to do a build without any points in Scythe. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 19:03, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Sucks with twin moon sweep, but its still a decent skill regardless. Deserves a place in the optionals.


 * With regards to the attribute spread, don't forget masochism. Death Magic ends up @15, so Dark Aura hits 50 damage a pop, while Soul Reaping ends up at 10. I felt this was a good balance because Soul Taker doesn't scale very well, and it gives it atleast 20 seconds duration (21 to be exact). It also provides a decent amount of energy management. I also tried adding major runes here or there, but the difference is very little. 3 more damage on Dark aura, or 1 dmg on soul taker + 3 energy from SR, or 2-3 extra lifesteal from grenth's aura, or 1 more damage a hit on scythe skills (by adding major in death and then dropping a point). IMO the extra 35 health seems more worth it than any of these options, especially since you're a front line damage dealer. Only decent change would be to add a major/superior rune of death magic, increasing your dark aura damage. It's the only significant change worth making. Again, at the cost of HP as a frontline squishy.


 * An argument can definitely be made though in favor of superior runes for the variant build, as you'll have feel no pain increasing your health. Perhaps an option there would be 9+3+1 Death, 5+3+1 Soul, 12 Scythe, 7 Wind. This would result in better scythe damage. Another Option would be 12+3+1 Death, 4+3+1 Soul, 10 Scythe, 7 Wind. This would give you 18 Death magic for 59 damage per Dark Aura proc. This all comes at the cost of 150 HP, reducing the potential effectiveness of Feel No Pain combined with Crippling victory % Reap impurities. For general pve though, I could see double superior runes being a good combination with Chilling Victory + Victorious Sweep. It's the most braindead variant of the build there is, while probably also having the best survivability.


 * With regards to Grenth's Aura and Soul Taker, I don't see the downside to a no-scythe build? Grenth's aura effecively cancels out Soul taker 1 for 1, canceling out both the bonus damage with reduced damage, and the health sac with life steal. You still get to trigger Dark Aura, which is the main point of the build. I think an updated version of the alternative build on the main page could be viable; go 12+3+1 death, 3+2 Soul reaping, and 12 Wind Prayers. You could also do the Signet of Mystic Speed there too, and add in an IMS or some other flash enchantment.


 * On an unrelated note, it turns out that Soul Taker shows the stats for @12 soul reaping in the tooltips on PVX, no matter what attribute the skill is actually set at. see: @0: ( Willarddog (talk) 22:48, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Attribute scaling and multiattacks just got fixed a few minute ago. This build is now an excellent way to oneshot yourself. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 23:38, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * BWAHAHAHAHA who would've thought that a-net wouldve fixed the new skills. Twin Moon Sweep is now mainbar. And who cares if multi hit = multi sacrifice, if you have grenth's aura? Grenth's aura + vamp scythe cancels out the Life Taker sacrifice, so now we just need a solution for the dark aura health loss. Vigorous spirit on a hero is all you need, and the maintain it as if they're lives depend on it. Builds which focus on hitting multiple foes though, such as crippling victory + reap impurities, are gonna be much more difficult to pull off with all the health loss. I think both variations of the builds above work perfectly though, if you now switch CV+RI for Chilling victory + victorious sweep.Willarddog (talk) 02:17, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Updated bar after 4/30 update
[build prof=Necromancer/Dervish Death=11+1+1 Soul=7+1 Scythe=10 Wind=7][Optional][Victorious Sweep][Twin Moon Sweep][Grenth's Aura][Drunken Master][Soul Taker][Dark Aura][Masochism][/build]
 * Optionals: [["I Am Unstoppable!"], [[Feel No Pain] , [[Ebon Battle Standard of Honor]


 * Now that every attack results in a dark aura proc, hitting three enemies with a scythe will result in triple procs, which @15 death magic would leave you out 60 Health. Scythe attacks which bring healing are paramount. Blood bond on a hero is minimum to say the least. BIG spikes though when you can ball them up! Only take Eremite's attack if you cast death nova on yourself first.Willarddog (talk) 02:40, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Signet of Mystic Speed, Death Nova, Vengeance on a monk. These builds write themselves! -- DANDY ^_^ -- 02:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

0 Scythe Mastery suggestion
[build prof=Necromancer/Dervish Death=9+1 Soul=11+1+1 Wind=12][Signet of Mystic Speed][Soul Taker][Dark Aura][Masochism][Grenth's Aura][Eremite's Zeal][Vow of Piety][Drunken Master][/build]

Attributes could use some refinement but I think something like this should be considered now. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 10:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Soul reaping does not need to be that high, death magic (Dark Aura) is where all your damage is coming from anyways. Soul taker has absolutely terrible scaling, and pumping soul reaping an extra 4-5 points for 3 more damage on auto attack is not optimal. Increasing soul reaping is only beneficial to the extent it increases duration of soul taker to a manageable time, to get the min. req from the new scythe, as well as the energy it gives. Since SoMS has a 20s cooldown, your enchantments don't need to last longer than that. 7+1+2(masochism) soul reaping = 10, which is the magic number for soul taker uptime (21s) as well as scythe req (with buffer for weakness).
 * Now, 7 in soul reaping would only allow for 10+1+1 in death, so it's probably better to bite the major rune in soul reaping to go 6+2, so you can go 11+1+1 in death to reach 10 soul reaping and 15 death magic respectively. This is also optional, but imo the DPS increase is worth it.


 * Also, Vow of Piety seems great theoretically, but it just sucks in reality. It's easily stripped as its constantly on top, and its just not as good as "IAU!". If you take IAU! and Mystic Vigor in your optionals, you've solved your health loss problems, as well as giving armor to a squishy frontline build. With Blessed Insignia and defense scythe mod, you're running at 60+10+5+24=99 armor before outside armor buffs. Since you're not spamming attack skills or feeder ench, your energy has no problems with soul reaping taken into account, and you shouldn't ever have to switch to a zealous scythe. With grenth's aura, Mystic Vigor, and a vamp scythe, you'll be healing 21+15+5 = 41 HP every strike, out healing the soul taker + dark aura health loss (-18+-20=-38). Even without the vamp scythe, you're still almost breaking even.


 * About the weapon, using the Soul Reaping Scythe "Sufferer" might be the "best" option, but this build still works as intended without it. Only downside to Sufferer is that it doesn't work with skills that synergize with physical attacks, such as Barbs, MoP, Order of Vampire (would be so thematically fitting!), etc, as it deals dark damage. All other melee support works though, such as SoH and splinter weapon, which are arguably the more important ones.


 * Here's my suggested update to Hanz' bar:

[build prof=Necromancer/Dervish Death=10+1+2 Soul=8+1 Wind=12][Signet of Mystic Speed][Masochism][Dark Aura][Soul Taker][Mystic Vigor][Grenth's Aura]["I Am Unstoppable!"][Drunken Master][/build]
 * Usage: first Cast SoMS, then cast skills 2-6 in order. Repeat on SoMS CD. Use skills 7-8 appropriately.


 * IMO this variation is the best version of the soul taker scythe; The damage from Willarddog (talk) 15:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Seconded, definitely better than the variants with scythe mastery. I think running alcohol with feel no pain and dual superiors would be best (but obviously contingent on alcohol, so to be left as a variant). Small optimization -- 8+1 soul, 10+1+2 death is strictly better than 11+1+1 death, 6+2 soul. --Xanshiz (talk) 19:23, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Good catch. I'ved fixed the build up top. Willarddog (talk) 00:32, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The first cast of SoMS can be omitted since you're in no hurry to cast enchantments out of combat.
 * Twin Moon Sweep and Eremite's Attack are still pretty good even without scythe mastery, so they could be considered. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 00:40, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Good points, they are usable but only if GA is not on cooldown. You really want that up at all times. Eremites would be a huge spike potentially. I think this build also has lots of farming potential if tweeked at abit-Willarddog (talk) 20:12, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * bump, mainbar this when? Willarddog (talk) 17:51, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Whenever you want! It is a wiki after all =p
 * I went ahead and pushed the changes, feel free to add anything. --Xanshiz (talk) 19:02, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Putrid explosion over mystic vigor imo. --Krschkr (talk) 12:14, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't you think continuing to auto attack does more damage than putrid explosion? I feel like taking the time to cast that is a DPS loss in most situations.
 * Mystic vigor could be swapped to an optional due to the 1s delay as you point out. But with it, your healing balances the damage you take from soul taker + Grenth's Aura, so it's nice to not be killing yourself during combat. Plus it's a cover enchant. From my experience, I tend to run in front of my heroes due to permanent ims (whereas heroes had some downtime with fall back), and then upon reaching a group of foes, I casted all the enchantments while waiting for my heroes to catch up. Most fights were over by the time the enchantments ran out, but if not, I usually just wouldn't recast mystic vigor. --Xanshiz (talk) 20:19, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Putrid explosion allows to deal damage when either dark aura or soul taker have been stripped. Its range is larger than dark aura's, it can be used to deal ranged damage. --Krschkr (talk) 12:50, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

move to testing?
I think we've made the best version of this. Can also add eremites or twin moon in the optionals. Willarddog (talk) 23:17, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like the page settled on this build version. I've moved the page to testing. --Krschkr (talk) 23:44, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Congratulations to a provisionally great vetted build. --Krschkr (talk) 10:41, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Woot Woot. Cleaned it up a bit, got rid of unnecessary notes. can anyone confirm this: "Prevails vs standard anti-melee such as blind and blocking, as dark aura will still trigger."?
 * Also, I'm challenging your phrase in your vote "needs a bit of setup time." This is why SoMS is in the build. Setup time is a 1 second cast for SoMS and 1/4 cast for Mystic Vigor. Willarddog (talk) 15:12, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Health sacrifice and damage still trigger when you miss. Setup time is 1s + 0.75s for the signet, 0.75s for each enchantment. That's a total of 4 seconds before you can start attacking. Mystic vigor, if I were to play with it, would add another 0.25s + 0.75s. I always was a good chunk later in combat than my primary dervish team mate. But I was the one who killed the foes, mind you. --Krschkr (talk) 15:37, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Definitely needs setup time due to aftercast delay, although so does, say, a VoS Dervish. Only real pain is when you have to do it mid combat, although soul taker lasts ~31 seconds at 13 SR and +enchanting, so I rarely find myself needing to do that. --Xanshiz (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't like the scythe mastery optionals. You don't have any good feeder enchantments, and you don't want to strip Grenth's Aura because then you'll kill yourself. Your best bet is to wait for Grenth's Aura to come off CD, then use a teardown skill and immediately recast it. But if you wait for this to happen, foes will usually be dead, so you can't exactly get much value out of eremites. Plus eremites usually isn't that good because stuff that is clumped will die super fast anyway. I think the value you get from the PvE optionals is far more valuable than extra scythe skills. --Xanshiz (talk) 20:19, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Twin Moon Sweep gives a nice damage boost by introducing a dual attack (on the usual 3 foes). I've been using it either with grenth's aura only or with grenth's finger as an addition, depending on whether I could rely on enchantments or needed putrid explosion as a backup for unenchanted times or as a source of ranged damage. The results with it are good, especially as both flash enchantments also trigger dark aura via masochism. I can imagine that eremite's attack gives good results, too, but haven't tested it. I'm usually happy with scythes' normal cleaving and don't add actual area attacks as I don't tend to ball foes. --Krschkr (talk) 12:48, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Vigorous Spirit Note
The current Mainbar does not take any net damage from attacking due to Grenth's Aura and Mystic Vigor. If mystic vigor was dropped from the Mainbar, it would make sense, but otherwise, this setup doesn't have any special synergy with vigorous spirit. --Xanshiz (talk) 20:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Grenth's aura can easily get stripped, vigorous spirit is a nice source of automatic backup healing. Or a cover for grenth's aura and your other enchantments. --Krschkr (talk) 12:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Some random things
1. Current mainbar has a major death. Any reason why a major and not a superior or a minor?

2. Feel No Pain: 17 Death / 11 SR versus 16 Death / 13 SR: I actually found increased damage on the latter setup due to base weapon damage increase. Plus Masochism only sacrifices 3% upon reapplication.

3. Vow of Piety -- won't reapply, so is the intention to recast it every fight?

4. Any reason why 40/20/20 soul reaping? Cast time is 0 so it doesn't matter.

5. Skill order. I personally wait to use Grenth's Aura until in combat for the on application effect. In this case, it would make more sense to put mystic vigor first. Is the reason it was swapped is for Mystic Vigor to be used as a cover for Grenth's Aura? They give comparable health return, so I'd prefer Grenth's Aura to be stripped due to lower recharge/easy application. --Xanshiz (talk) 17:42, 13 May 2020 (UTC)


 * 1. Squishy frontline, so a major over a superior. I simply liked the nice even 50 damage, as opposed to 47 @14. I figure 35 less health for 3 extra damage per trigger is worth, but not 75 max health. We can mainbar minor for more max HP, and include major or superior in optionals.


 * 2. Does the increase in SR from 11->13 give you more than 9 extra post-armor damage? Remember that each point in death gives 9 extra PBAoE damage per swing, not 3. This is because Dark Aura triggers thrice when you hit three targets.


 * 3. Removed. I had the same thought. It was on the bar previously combined with mystic vigor, as that was the enchantment which renewed it. However, being constantly on top, it'l just get removed too often anyways. Only situation where I see it getting renewed is if you take a teardown attack and teardown grenth's aura when it comes off cooldown.


 * 4. True. Scythe has "of enchanting" anyways, as as mentioned above, it makes more sense to re-cast enchantments anyways mid combat in the midst of enemies for dark aura triggers, so there is literally no point to weapon swap back and forth.


 * 5. Done. I don't think it was in that order for any particular reason. Willarddog (talk) 15:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)


 * 2 points in soul reaping won't give you 9 extra damage, but you very rarely are actually hitting three foes, so that's not a fair comparison. I think the biggest selling point is longer Soul Taker which means you don't have to recast it as early. --Xanshiz (talk) 00:44, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Great Dwarf Armor
I'm just a noob compared to you guys but doesn't it have a really nice synergy with this build?

1. It gives +24 armor like "IAU!" but perma.

2. It's an enchantment which can help with more healing through Mystic Vigor.

3. It has short cd and energy cost so it can be used as a cover enchantment.

4. It has +60 hp which can help with the Minor/Major/Superior rune issue so it can help increase the dmg.

So if you run GDW + superior death + major soul you will have -15hp, but a 2nd cast of Masochism will reach the 3% breakpoint, countering the increased hp sacrifice from Dark Aura with higher death magic. While also healing more with Mystic vigor.

Ithamir (talk) 14:20, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think one downside to Great Dwarf Armor is that it has a cast time, so that's 1.75s (1s cast, 0.75s aftertaste delay) of additional setup. One annoying part of the bar as-is is that it takes a solid chunk of time to cast everything before fights, and this would add to that. Other than that, it's a fine option for the reasons you point out. --Xanshiz (talk) 16:50, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * GDW is not a terrible skill per se, but it just fails to outshine other options. You're points are revelant, there is synergy; the issue is that GDA as a skill just sucks compared to "IAU!". It is really only good in specific situations and builds, mainly vs destroyers. Compared to IAU, GDA is bad for general use. Here's why:


 * 1. It's an enchantment. Can be removed.


 * 2. It has a cast time. IAU has no cast time.


 * 3. They give the same amount of armor, so it gives no advantage armor wise.


 * 4. It's subject to the armor cap. There is an armor cap for all skills at +24 armor; meaning, if you have a skill with +15 armor, and another at +20 armor, you will only get max +24 armor. The exception is that any one skill can break this cap, such as "Save Yourselves!", which gives +100 armor. To round out the example, if you were under the effects of "SY!" and GDA, you would only get "SY!"'s +100 armor, not +124 of SY+GDA combined.


 * 5. IAU is special because it is the only skill which break point #3 above. Meaning, it can stack with other skills above the armor cap. This makes it extremely advantageous, and overpowered.


 * 6. It not only prevents cripple, but cures it as well. This is a melee build. Cripple counters melee.


 * 7. Prevents knockdowns. If you're knocked down, you can't deal damage.


 * There's a reason that "IAU!" is mainbarred on all good melee builds on PvX. It's simply an overpowered skill, and no one defensive optional comes close. The only reason it's not mainbarred is that for easier areas or areas with little to no cripple or knockdown, you might as well just take a more offensive option. But even if you were fighting destroyers, and you get the bonus armor, you would still most likely take IAU for the reasons above. The extra armor GDA gives is moot because IAU stacks with armor from other skills, such as "Stand Your Ground!", which is commonly taken on hero builds alongside fallback. Willarddog (talk) 06:08, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * To further strengthen IAU's position : the bonus armor it provides not only bypasses the armor cap, but also is unaffected by armor penetration.
 * I posted this build in trial : Build:N/W Soul Taker, maybe there are ideas to salvage ? The main of those is Dark Aura from a support ally. Higher damage, self damage is shared by a backline team member, and it frees attributes points for the Soul taker user.--Ruineternelle (talk) 08:46, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that Dark aura on a hero was discussed somewhere (wiki page on the skill?) but the general idea is that, 1) If you are going to need 1 or 2 heros to support your build, you need 7 heros. You need to come up with a full team comp, and 2) Hero's do not cast it on you automatically. They do, per se, and will maintain it, but they will cast it on anyone with life sac spells. This includes BiP, anyone with Spirit Light, or Enfeebling Blood. If they're casting it on them, they're not casting it on you. You can choose to not bring BiP, or Spirit Light (enfeebling blood isn't necessary, necessarily), but then most likely you won't be running a team comp worth posting on this wiki, unless you can up-end the existing meta. You could also Micro it every 30 seconds, but that won't pass on this wiki either. Now, obviously you can run whatever the heck you want on your own character, which is what most people here do anyways. If you don't mind microing it every 30 seconds (which to be truthful is easy as crap, just set a keybind), then more power to you. Willarddog (talk) 01:35, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "You could also Micro it every 30 seconds, but that won't pass on this wiki either"
 * Not sure where this is coming from, but it is perfectly fine to write disable+micro. Also a lot of teams (Triple ESurge, BiP Support) have a death magic hero anyway, so it's not like you'd have to restructure your whole team comp. Overall, I just don't think an axe setup offers much over a scythe setup. Regardless, this discussion should move over to that page. --Xanshiz (talk) 02:01, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Anecdote
Used the build in a slaver's exile pug team. The fools used a conset as usual. According to another player's statement my damage share was ~38% in a 6 damage setup. Granted, pugs don't tell much about a build's quality, I've already been #1 in damage dealing with a defensive spear paragon in a 6 damage team a couple of times. But as long as you have a trustworthy healer with you (bring one from your guild) this soul taker dervish seems to be a fine pick for pug teams. The main issue in hero teams, the long setup time, doesn't matter when the rest of your team consists of players who're usually too scared to run into foes anyway. --Krschkr (talk) 11:29, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Dark Aura on Hero Variant
Dropping Dark Aura from the player bar and bringing the skill on hero (similarly to N/W + N/A) allows you to drop Dark Aura & death magic, opening up the build for better optimization. Since you don't take Dark Aura damage you can drop Mystic Vigor, and Signet of Mystic Speed is not needed anymore to lower the setup time for Masochism and Soul Taker (it lowers total setup by 0.25 seconds - big whoop). Opening up three skills slots and dropping death allows you to bring some better options: You can spec into scythe mastery for non-Sufferer owners, or if you have Sufferer, you can take advantage of the AoE DPS from Pious Assault or health gain from Twin Moon Sweep and/or Victorious Sweep. You're also able to bring more flash enchantments to beef up your AoE damage and spike potential. "Flash Spammer" takes that concept to the max, and emphasizes flash enchantment spam over auto attack damage (meaning sufferer vs non-sufferer is not as important). To summarize, you are afforded higher Dark Aura damage (@18 spec on hero), better bar compression, more damage, more survivability, and less setup / time spent casting enchantments. Willarddog (talk) 16:52, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Is there any reason to run this over the dagger variant? A principle advantage to N/D is the free attribute points due to not needing to spec into scythe mastery, allowing you to take dark aura yourself. If you are going to outsource it to a hero, I feel that N/A would be significantly stronger than the proposed N/D, hereby making this variant obsolete. --Xanshiz (talk) 08:03, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Have you tested and compared the two? :) Willarddog (talk) 15:02, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * In all seriousness, its highly unlikely that this can compare to N/A Soul Taker in terms of straight damage potential. Krschkr's example video shows how insane N/A is. The primary difference between Dagger & Scythe is resilience. Vamp scythe + Grenth's Aura allows you to break even (if not slightly more) on your auto attacks, which means you're not as taxing to your healer as a base 60 AL squishy. With dagger, your healers have to be concerned not only for your dark aura bot, but now for you as well. You can see in Krschkr's video (on the N/A page) how precarious his survivability was. Not speccing into death magic allows you to take advantage of scythe mastery, meaning significant sustain from Twin Moon Sweep and Victorious Sweep. In areas with enchantment removal, N/D has a much stronger ability to constantly provide itself with cover enchants, ESPECIALLY if you take 3-4 flash enchantments. If you're running a dark-aura-on-a-hero-soul-taker-build, I would imagine that N/D might fare better or easier to play in more difficult zones for the above reasons. N/D also has access to eremites, while not too impactful in most play scenarios, can provide some very powerful spikes if pulled off right. Flash Enchantment + flash enchantment + Eremites + TMS will pretty much kill any mob of foes. Willarddog (talk) 22:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

One funny, interesting idea is pairing up with a SF tank to ball up agro, bring a hero with Dark Aura (and maybe UA + death nova, to add more to the spike) and spike with this: [build prof=Necromancer/Dervish Curses=12+1+3 Soul=8+2 EarthPrayers=10 Scythe=2][Masochism@12][Soul Taker@12][Mystic Vigor@0][Mark of Pain@16][Ebon Escape@5][Sand Shards][Aura of Thorns][Eremite's Attack][/build]

N/D VoS is still probably better, but this is something I just thought up Willarddog (talk) 22:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * probably plays a lot like a contagion bomber! Juniper real (talk) 20:00, 29 November 2020 (UTC)