User:Malokai92/Wiki Drama/D/W AoB Dervish Ganker

Unexists Vote
"it contains the word 'ganker', which I don't like. Deticated solo ganking is bad, you won't kill stuff. " Ok first problem is he grades a build poorly because it "uses a word he doesn't like", 2 dedicated* ganking is bad, you won't kill stuff is a stupid statement because this build will be at stand 90pc of the time or with another character on a split. If it does go off and solo gank it would be like a BA ranger in that it breaks off and quickly kills an archer or 2 before returning to the stand. It will not run around on its own the entire match. Ganking of NPC's is a very common and known to be effective tactic, to argue against that discredits the user and demonstrates clear lack of GvG experience.I Heal If U Shutup 15:10, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Thanks for removing it.I Heal If U Shutup 15:16, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * This is a bad stand build; so I wouldn't even concider having this 90% of the time at stand. It's bad. Your IMS is ruined by flail, which is also a bad IAS, they just don't combine well. It used to be great, thrust me, I've run the exact build in a 4-4 split when it was still OP, but now, it's just not worth taking. Also; every build melee build is capable of your therm of ganking, but generally you just use it since you don't kill at stand, and with this, you won't kill at stand. So you'll be in their base all the time. Okay; I'd agree with that I can't say it's bad because of the name, but still, it is bad. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  15:54, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Its fine at stand in comparison to other vetted dervish builds such as dwayna and grenths. IMS advantage is lost by flail for 5 seconds, to say it is ruined is silly as it will only be up when a person isn't moving. Try flail before you bash it, i highly doubt you have. Yes this no longer removes preprots before the spike, but the damage is still there. To say it is ruined is silly, to say it is no longer broken isn't.I Heal If U Shutup 16:42, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * unexist said he used the EXACT SAME BUILD, which means he used Flail. You take offense against Unexist, who is only criticizing the build, not saying that its author is "stupid". That 5 sec of Flail can, btw, make a difference in a match, I think Unexist meant that. A regular AoB Derv would work better at the stands than this build. I dont think Unexist rated your build by its name... That would be freakin stupid, but by what the name means. If an AoB Derv gets rated, it will be capable of ganking as well, which Unexist noted. Unexist didn't say it was ruined just that it has fallen out of use, for whatever reason, which means its broken, imo.--Relyk 18:39, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I highly doubt he has ever tried flail on an AoB derv before, mainly because you would have to be horrible not to like it. The main flaw with the majority of dervish builds is that all their IAS options are horrible. Sure you can take heart of fury, but now you can't use your pious assault or any other deepwound, and energymanagment well thats gone too. You can take pious fury, but then you have no energymanagement ither. Flail in this build works perfectly with 0 downside, thats right i said zero. You say that 5 seconds of flail can make a huge difference, and it does in favor of this build. No monk while getting spiked runs away, he quickly attempts to prot himself or W.E. Even if he does run all that means is your spike gets free crits to his back as he still cant outrun you(unlease their stand monks use dash now? lol they dont). This build works much better at ganking than the majority of frontline builds out there, and as far as survivability in arenas goes this works better than the majority there as well. To give it a .7 score is a pretty big sign of incompetence to me.I Heal If U Shutup 18:55, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Lol, Pious Assault will remove attacker's insight not HoF. E-management= not spamming skills, and this build wouldnt have that problem anyways. You dont understand by what i meant with Flail, it will hinder the builds ability to move, what happens to ur IAS when you have to kill a moving target? You wont be killing any human players. Bringing HoF will give you plenty of time to kill NPCs anyways. It may work fine at ganking, but what will happen when your at the stand, you wont be using Flail there I hope, but that is in no way a downside -_-'. Btw, you dont have to explain all the game mechanics in your argument. All the monk has to do is cast Guardian or SoD, or atleast have Return, to avoid you. As for RA and TA, you can't gank there so there shouldnt be any other tags except GvG. Incompetence is only for those who are incompetent.--Relyk 21:56, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I like flail and find it much more useful than Heart of fury which has a 30 sec recharge and is easy to strip. Flail will act just like frenzy on a shock axe except no double damage or energy needed. Just because you move the same speed doesn't mean you can't use an ias. PS Attackers insight falls off after the price of the attack is paid for, before the lose 1 enchantment side of pious assault kicks in. In otherwords you do lose Heart of fury(lol).I Heal If U Shutup 00:12, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Nu uh. Lol at strip tho, who will be removing HoF. "Just because you move the same speed doesn't mean you can't use an ias", what?... Btw, why do you hate HoF? It doesn't matter if you like Flail, it matters that it would be the best choice of skill for the build.--Relyk 11:06, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It actually removes HoF. Btw flail is baed, for exposed reasons. Enj oy  [[Image:Frenzy.jpg|18px|User:Enjoy]] phailer! 11:11, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Stupid game mechanics.--Relyk 11:13, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No u Enj oy  [[Image:Frenzy.jpg|18px|User:Enjoy]] phailer! 11:17, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I was saying that with AoB up flail will only put you at the same speed as every other person, it won't stall you. Heart of fury in arenas at least always gets stripped, plus as i explained it doesn't work with pious assault. I personally would never play a build without a deepwound on a damage dealer. If you wanted in varients you could drop flail for HoF and pious assault for victorious sweep. This would make a pressure build which seems to be more what you prefer, although it defeats the point in that it spikes slower and can't kill an NPC as fast, but it is a varient.I Heal If U Shutup 13:52, 19 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Which defeats the purpose of AoB, since it lets you have IAS (via any other stance or HoF) and IMS at the same time. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:02, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Meh; about the exact bar wasn't right, I guess i just typed a bit too far. I used the old pious fury / remove enchantment(dunno how the skill is called) stuff, that was pretty lame back then. Also; what they're saying about flail is right, it's bad. You're saccing up your IMS speed, while having only 50% of the time a IAS, that isn't triggered 24/7. So, it's just bad. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  15:52, 19 May 2008 (EDT)  —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  15:51, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I think flail is the only IAS that will actually work, none of the other IAS options will allow you to have a DW except maybe Frenzy. Even still i hate the idea of an 8 second frenzy with no cancels even with the bonus 40AL. Throwing a bad enchantment into the bar or boosting wind to 11+1 would also provide a cover enchantment but i don't really like those options. With flail you just have to not be stupid and its fine, hell even if you do use it at a bad time its still only gonna cost you 1-2 seconds of normal movement speed. A shock axe can't use frenzy when he is chasing after someone with rush or he loses his speed buff, but noone cares about that because its a non issue, the player would be retarted to hit frenzy until he has cought up to the person. This analogy is the same for flail on an AoB, you don't hit flail till you catch up to the person.I Heal If U Shutup 16:26, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You actually can with a shock axe, it's called q-stepping and bull's strike. Too bad pretty much all of pvx don't even know how to properly do that. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  04:32, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

[build prof=D/W scy=12+1+1 mys=12+1][Avatar of Balthazar][Victorious Sweep][Eremite's Attack][Distracting Strike][Heart of Fury][Zealous Renewal][Meditation][Resurrection Signet][/build] Example pressure varient. It has no DW and can't spike like the build i posted, however it does have a long lasting IAS and great energymanagement and self healing.I Heal If U Shutup 16:58, 19 May 2008 (EDT)


 * no DW=fail. You didn't like HoF because of the 30 sec recharge, but thats hypocritical when you next say it is "long lasting". You would be better off just using Tiger Stance, unless your killing NPCs faster than that. As for the Shock Axe, just Rush them and Bull's Strike/Shock then you frenzy kill. As this build lacks bulls, (which is unnecessary for ganking), it isn't the same analogy.

[build prof=D/W scy=12+1+1 mys=11+1 wind=6+1][Avatar of Balthazar][Chilling Victory][Pious Assault][Distracting Strike][tiger Stance][Attacker's Insight][Natural Healing][Resurrection Signet][/build] Still dont like the IAS tho--Relyk 22:09, 19 May 2008 (EDT)


 * The IAS kinda kills the point of AoB: Long lasting anti-kite. Using Flail means all you have is practically a tank in PvP. Pious Assault would be generally better on an enchantmentless Dervish such as this. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  22:12, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Yea, I'd say just get rid of IAS if it cant be fit in then...--Relyk 22:43, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I dislike HoF because it is an enchantment and thus very hard to use with Pious Assault the builds only way to add a DW. As far as get rid of an IAS if it can't be fit well it can, its called Flail for the DW version and HoF in the non DW version. The flail slot could be set to optional, but even having an ias that you will only use 50pc of the time is going to be much better than any other skill you could place in the build. As far as the point that Flail kills the point of AoB with long lasting anti kite i would still argue that it obviously wont be on while you are moving, target swaping, chasing a person ect. This isn't a hammer warrior where the flail lasts 18 seconds, it only lasts 5. Also you arnt going to be slower than the person you are hitting when in flail like on a warrior, you will still be just as fast. If the person you are hiting starts to move away just don't refresh your flail, it will end before they get 2 steps from you.I Heal If U Shutup 00:37, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

Stop making this build; it's just bad. If you really need a IAS, take Heart of Fury. It won't be removed as pious removes AI(or, you're being bad). —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  04:31, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Im sorry but your wrong as AI is removed before pious unlease it effects 3+ attacks. I don't really care if you guys Vet this but at least understand that when you call people bad, you should at least try to be correct. You yourself are being an ignorant asshole, mainly because if you checked your facts or knew anything about this game you would realise your wrong. Peace.I Heal If U Shutup 14:06, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Just violated NPA. The build is bad, not you, just try another idea, it isn't the end of the world as we know it, you find its not a big deal if ur builds r crap, should see all the crap ive pumped out.--[[Image:Relyk Purifying Veil Sig.jpg|21px]]R ELYK   (Talk  |  Edits)  20:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)