Archive talk:Mo/any SoD Monk

Figured this needed to be uploaded, seeing as its so common. Go ahead and fix any little things that could be better, I'm not very experienced at SoD. Skuld if you are reading this, please don't edit it in any way. I've never seen you make an intelligent edit to any article, ever. Thanks. VegaObscura 14:00, 22 July 2007 (CEST)

Well there's Archive:Mo/E SoD Grasping Monk, but this is a stronger build. Although I would use a minor instead, you're not hitting any important breakpoints. Tycn 14:51, 22 July 2007 (CEST)
 * You're right about using a major without hitting the breakpoints being silly, but instead of dropping the major I decided to bring base prot down by 1 and the other 2 attributes up by 1 and keep the major. Also the build you linked to is annoyingly close to this one.  It's questionable if they need a merge, but half of the idea behind that build is to use Grasping Earth to snare your enemies.  I'll let the community decide whether to merge or keep them separate. VegaObscura 15:01, 22 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Majors on monks is a bad idea. 35 health is more important than getting a stronger gift and slightly larger DF. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 08:13, 23 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Major removed. VegaObscura 09:07, 23 July 2007 (CEST)
 * O, grasping is gud btw. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 20:07, 31 July 2007 (CEST)

Deny Hexes is standard on this build, with Divine Spirit or Sig of Devotion replacing SB, Gift or Dismiss. Veil is rare on the prot monk in GvG (although common on the LoD). I Noob I 17:44, 28 July 2007 (CEST)
 * No. Deny Hexes is never standard on any bar that doesn't already contain several divine skills(Soul Wedding's glimmer bar, for example, or BLight or boonprots). Veil/Gift are standard for hex removal/redbarsgoup for prot monks. People only run SoD+Deny to add a little strength against hex teams. --Edru viransu //dQQ about me 17:52, 28 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I suggest you watch ten top 100 gvg games on obs and tell me how many of those 20 teams run Veil on their prot monk. The answer will be close to zero.  Deny (with Sig of Devotion or more usually Divine Spirit) IS standard on the prot monk (but not the LoD) at the moment.  I Noob I 16:14, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * iQ veil bonds. I win. But, seriously, people only run deny because of the strength(imbalance) of hexes, atm. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 16:30, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * iQ have a unique approach to monk builds, and shouldn't be taken as the model for every monk build on wiki. For example, they are the only good team I know of who don't use monk secondaries, but you don't run around deleting all the Mo/E and Mo/A builds because of that.  And it doesn't matter why almost every other good team chooses Deny over Veil, the fact is that they do, and they have done ever since Deny was buffed, because in the current meta most people think it's the stronger option.  New players wanting to look up GvG builds on wiki should surely be given the builds that are actually run, rather than builds that might theoretically be run in a different meta.  If the meta changes, hexes die out and teams start running dual veils again, then change the build back to veil, but for now it should be Deny (yes I know Izzy says he's just about to deal with hexes, but we've heard that before and I'll believe it when I see it).  I Noob I 18:38, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * People haven't been using deny since it got buffed. It's only became widespread in the last two months. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 18:47, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I do see your point, though. I suppose perhaps we should have it in the meta form, for now, despite it being inferior outside of a hex-heavy meta. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 18:51, 31 July 2007 (CEST)

Apart from the above, this works great in HA as well. LAX 18:49, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Veil iz gud. Deny iz gud. nuff' said. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 20:06, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Readem wins the discussion. :/ --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 20:08, 31 July 2007 (CEST)

Changed Veil for Deny and Gift for Sign of Devotion. Certainly on SoD, gift sucks. You'll be needing all the energy you'll have and sign of devo + deny removes 2 hexes. Unexist 21:26, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * They nerf hexes and you add more hex removal. :/ Besides, Gift > SoD, especially if one doesn't suck and can manage energy. I suppose I do have extremely high standards of energy management, though. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 23:23, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I honestly have difficulty understanding how anyone would want to take gift of health out of any non-lod monk bar. If any skill should be taken off an SoD bar, it's Spirit bond.  You've got the most powerful prot in the game on your bar, for christ's sake.  When, with the exclusion of some sort of cast spike (in which case, the +30 armor still reduces somewhere around a third of the damage most the time anyway) will you use sb?  When it gets diverted or humilitied?  Maybe LoD monks should take a Heal Party on their bar in case LoD gets diverted?  Or maybe there's some other crazy reason for doing this, beyond the old built in habits of always needing one of each since B-Light days, that I just don't get.  Can someone fill me in?  Pluto 02:18, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Nope, you hit the nail on the head when you used the word 'habit'. I hadn't even thought about not using Spirit Bond, but you make a very good point.  Removing Spirit Bond now. VegaObscura 23:11, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * People use spirit bond because it is good, not because of habit. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop
 * People use 1/4 second guardian, as it kills melee Spikes. Those that get through, usually are shatter and perhaps evis/wearying and SB takes care of those. SB is plain useful regardless, tbh with you :P. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:17, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Don't get me wrong, I think SB is an awesome skill. But again, unless you're facing a pure caster spike, you'll probably never need to cast it because doing so would be redunant.  I just don't think anyone should cast both SB and SoD to stop a spike.  That's just using 10 more energy than you really needed to spend.  SB is habitually added because the skill is in fact very good.  But to me, SoD + SB seems a lot like trying to run Prot Spirit and SB on the same monk.  Pluto 00:08, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Block is not always a reliable counter to a melee spike. Besides, you can't preprot with SoD(SoD is a great don't bother even targetting this guy for x seconds skill, though). --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 00:15, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Last I checked, 75% chance is block was more than reliable enough. The only thing you have to worry about is expose defenses, and I haven't seen a whole lot of that recently with the nerfs it's taken.  As for pre-protting... I'm afraid I don't understand why you can't preprot with an SoD, but can with a spirit bond.  Can you explain that for me? Pluto 04:53, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Because even blind people notice the SoD animation, even when not looking at the screen or even being in the same room as the computer playing GW. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 04:59, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

Veil
Veil is great against shroud of silence on RA, cause when u encounter such assassin on RA u r dead. With holy veil u can remove it in time, but not always, not always.

True, but... What isn't great in RA? Tycn 12:32, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Veil is great, except in NR/Tranq. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 18:11, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * If you're running SoD in NR/Tranq though, somethings wrong. And if you're against NR/Tranq, the question of deny vs veil is moot.  Pluto 02:18, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I was pointing out that the only place Veil isn't good is in NR/Tranq. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 01:04, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

GG for that in RA. Unexist 21:27, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

Fort Aspenwood
Pretty sure this is common sense, but this build works wonders in Fort Aspenwood. I usually swap out Aegis with Divine Spirit though.--Atlas Oranos 12:25, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * It doesn't, you can't keep up a team like a zb can. This should be gvg-only imo . - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  17:51, 16 November 2007 (CET)

Tags
Please remove RA, this does not provide enough healing. It is like the nubs who run booners or Blessed Light/RC. Doesn't work. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:54, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * cept boonprot owns RA. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 00:55, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * ...no it doesn't. Do u no boon? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:57, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * or whatever is a boon monk with prots. boonprot. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 00:59, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Talking about the MoR booners :P <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 04:54, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * I boon in AB with a blackout cripshot, shock axe, and dev hammer with holy strike.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 05:12, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * No ss necro? silly noob Moush 03:40, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
 * SS is good for retards, nubs, any combination of the two, or heroway. Are you any of the first two, because most people I know don't run a full 8 man heroway team in AB. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  03:42, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
 * you understand sarcasm well Moush 01:11, 24 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I <3 SoD monk for RA. just take out the aegis for a signet of devotion since aegis isn't as useful for 4v4 anyway, and remove the spirit bond (like you should be doing anyway, since sod basically has the same function) for a shielding hands or a shield of absorption.  Between a 77 point sig of devo (from 11 divine) and dismiss, you should be fine against most teams. Pluto 05:15, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
 * You should not be removing Spirit Bond, even in RA/TA. Btw, SoA and SH share the same function as SoD(small prot, although SoD is more costly), not SB. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 05:27, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

SoD can be used for both small prot and big prot roles, which was part of why it was so good. The only time SB is more effective than SoD is vs casters. The reason I always took SH (when somebody didn't force me to take the empty skill slot that is SB) was that it is cheaper for the role it does. There are situations where I can use shielding hands to mitigate a ton of damage for just five energy. With spirit bond, it's going to cost 10 energy whether I cast it or SoD, and they're both going to have the same effect vs a spike. And to the comment earlier about people seeing SoD, and it being ineffective as a preprot... I would like to point out that anyone who doesn't suck is going to see SB just fine, and will switch the spike off to someone else too (or they'll drain it, or the spike will epic fail. either way, you win).

Considering that physicals are what will actually kill you in this game, SB usually is not going to be needed over a SoD either. Casting either one stops a spike well enough, unless its caster spike. The only caster spike these days is bspike, which you can't prot anyway. HOWEVER, since SoD has such a long recharge now, you do have to run SB, which is unfortunate. SoD just isn't going to be there reliably enough to stop a spike. No point in even running SoD any more, but if you did, you would definitely have to take SB now, and it would have more use than just being "that skill I cast when I need to cast through diversion." (SH is also better for that, because it's 5 energy instead of ten xD)

Also would like to mention that I brought the topic up in Tommy's monking thread on QQ forums, and he gave the same sb-less bar I suggested. Doubt that this will convince anyone any more than anything I've said, but I guess I'm not entirely crazy. Pluto 09:18, 24 October 2007 (CEST)

Archive?
now that its central elite is almost directly inferior to Guardian, i think it should be archived. freaking izzy ~ ʑʌɱʌɳəəɺɨɳɳ  (contribs) 22:37, 3 November 2007 (CET)

Still quite viable and still being run, just much less strong. RC is slightly redundant for all the teams with rit runners anyway. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 12:26, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * No. Even having a rit runner, cripshots still own u. At least ours does. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  17:51, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * Still shouldn't be archived. If you run HB(not an unpopular choice nowadays), this is pretty much the only choice for the other monk(BLight, WoH, RC, etc. are pointless because you don't need the healing, and you need a lot of Prot on your other monk to make up for the likely less hybridized nature of your HB guy). --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 22:21, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * Also, if not running RC, chances are you'll have a draw. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 10:13, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Variants Update
Toucher's take this build down with out effort.Actually any form of excessive life stealing kills this build for that matter. I believe a stronger self heal such as Healing Touch should be added to the variants section for RA and TA.
 * Except life steal(besides vamp weapon) is invariably bad. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 00:49, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * Regardless of how bad it is, 1 cripshot ranger with 1 toucher can easily total you. VegaObscura 04:02, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * Why are you getting hit with arrows through SoD? And if they're focused on you, the other 3 members of you team are beating their asses. &mdash;  Skakid  04:04, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * Run Mend Touch in RA(in TA, you have a draw, so you don't need it). Other than that, this build is fine for RA/TA. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 04:09, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * Cripshot is unblockable, that's why you are getting hit with arrows through SoD. The other arrows don't matter, its just the cripshot that has to hit you to keep you from kiting off the toucher. VegaObscura 15:22, 29 December 2007 (EST)
 * That's why in RA you run MTouch. In TA, it doesn't matter, because your bsurge/rit/nec draws/mends it off you. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 15:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

RA Variant
[build prof=Mo/E Prot=12+1+1 Heal=10+1 Divine=8+1][Reversal of Fortune][Shield of Deflection][Dwayna's Kiss][Dismiss Condition][Guardian][Healing Breeze][Holy Veil][Glyph of Lesser Energy@0][/build] Healing Breeze in the new form is actually more efficient than Gift, over time. When you have SoD to totally shut down most physical characters, and Guardian on top if it to cover other people when the non-fail players target swap, the slow effect of Breeze works. Plus, you really need the self-heal. I had another prot spell in here initially (the original idea of the build was - "How far will Healing Breeze go if I just prot the shit out of everything") but found that I needed more healing to counter pressure. Dwayna's Kiss has ended up being pretty great. With the enchantments I'm using + the hex clause, it accomplished what I was looking for.

The build fails against heavy enchantment removal but I like it for RA. No single Monk can counter every threat. Being able to throw up SoD + Breeze and /dance for half of the match is pretty entertaining. Zuranthium 13:31, 15 February 2008 (EST)
 * Blah, don't use this any more. Not being able to cancel-cast Breeze hurts (damn GOLE nerf) and the slight Guardian nerf didn't help anything either. Zuranthium 05:05, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

wow

PvE?
Is this good for PvE? What skills should i change for it if i used it there? Dean (contribs) 18:17, 4 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Check "raw signature" God  box   15:42, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Well? is is ok for pve? Dean (contribs) 19:22, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * not really, nothing spikes in pve, and if there is anything PS is enuf  Antiarchangel [[Image:Antiarchangel No U Sig.png|19px]] <font color=#C0641B>TROLL  19:35, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Can you give me a good SoD build for PvE then? Dean (contribs) 00:37, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

I think for RA there isn't enough heal. Degen may kill u and ur teamates while u haven't any heal skills. if using Gift of health, degen may kill you, and you willn't be able to do anything. So i think my variant is better for RA

Another RA variant
[build prof=Monk/Elementalist Divine_favor=9+1 Healing_prayers=9+1 protection_prayers=12+1+1][Reversal of fortune][shield of deflection][guardian][dismiss condition][patient spirit][spirit bond][holy veil][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

I don't like healing breez because it cost 10 energy, it's bad at heal and it will be useless if foes have enchant removal. I prefer Spirit bond because it can prevent spikes, can negotiate backfire (not fully, but it will help a lot) and help u stand against dervishes and elementalists when your SoD and/or guardian recharges
 * Don't use SoD in RA. Just not worth it. Enchantment removal is more common now and SoD only worked because of being able to spam Healing Breeze around. Zuranthium 03:52, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

TA..
No, there are build where SoD can be there but then u need to swap half the bar oO Massive   17:11, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Ra..
And no selfheal, just prot in RA is still kinda oO Massive   17:13, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * The reason we had it in RA was because there was an SoD RA Monk (which did have Patient Spirit and other stuff) but for some reason was "merged" into this. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 17:14, 23 July 2008 (EDT)