Build talk:N/A JQ Life Transfer

Superior Rune
Probably can get away with Superior Runes in this game mode since you get ressed quickly.--Saxazaxx (talk) 04:51, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * True, but it wouldn't really provide a benefit over minor runes given you already cap the degeneration and don't have to reapply the degen to finish a shrine; and if there's a healer he'll keep one to two NPCs anyway. Death magic, domination magic and elementalist builds would benefit way more from major/sup runes. --Krschkr (talk) 14:41, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * How about for carriers? Would let you put more points in Deadly Arts to kill carriers faster. Also, I would say another self-heal or damage should go over Strip Enchantment, even if there's a Monk in JQ botland anyway, you won't kill the carrier with that build anyway.--Saxazaxx (talk) 23:18, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't have trouble killing the jade carriers with it, but true, if there's a healer around you should better dash away and capture some outposts where he isn't watching. Using a major rune so you can go for slightly higher deadly arts is worth a try. --Krschkr (talk) 23:30, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Awaken the Blood will bring the degen to -9 for 13 sec, for a total for 234 dmg, but you can get that at 17 Blood.

[build prof=n/any curses=12+1+3][Awaken the Blood][Lingering Curse][Suffering] [/build]
 * This will give you 560 damage.--Saxazaxx (talk) 19:50, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * But that would rather be a variant for the weaken knees build imo. --Krschkr (talk) 20:13, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It's doing basically what Life Transfer is supposed to do. Difference is that it takes longer to kill shrines, but you only need to cast 2 skills instead of 3. Also you wouldn't have the regen, but you might be freed up for skills like Shadow of Haste or Recall...--Saxazaxx (talk) 20:29, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I meant: The weaken knees build is designed to apply long-lasting degeneration and force a healer to stay with a shrine for a long time, which your lingering curse could achieve even better. Life transfer features faster capping and good survivability without the long-term threat aspect. Your suggestion fits the other build more than this. --Krschkr (talk) 20:46, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

No, the intention I had with the variant I just posted was to kill the shrine, but only using 2 skills. The npcs would obviously degen out more slowly than with the Life Transfer build, but you have a lot more free skill slots for utility like shadowsteps or single-target damage for the carriers, which could make it an overall faster build. You could even bring Wastrel's Demise and Worry for the carriers.--Saxazaxx (talk) 17:39, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That'd still rather be an upgrade to the weaken knees build which already captures the shrine slowly with two skills. I can imagine that the N/Me would be a great improvement over the current Weaken Knees build (despite its lack of an IMS). --Krschkr (talk) 17:45, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Not to interrupt or anything, I was about to throw a well tag on the weaken knees build, and noticed this discussion. Some builds work great when the enemy team is bots and maybe 1-3 average players. My worry with WK is that it can be very fast, but vs a good player team, might fall apart. It's also slow or laborious to kill carriers. The thing I like about WK is how focused it is on nuking. It only has a 10 second cool down, and uses the mesmer-esque shadow steps to get to the next target. It can technically out-cap most builds, even a mesmer. The 3 second cast time can be a burden though. The Lingering Curse idea above is really interesting, it opens up a lot of room. Perhaps a cover enchantment could go along with it, so that the mesmer's shatter doesn't slow it down as much. When ever I start using Wastrel's on a mesmer secondary, I find myself just wanting to go full memser to get the movement skills. By making the nuke less reliable with the enchantment dependency, I might rather just run Me/A. Life Transfer is a good choice as well. What drove me away initially is that the hex ends when you die, so it might be a less reliable nuke, but the survivability aspect might counter this. Is it decent vs a good player team? I'd like to give the LC and LT builds a try. Sonofthort (talk)
 * I didn't get to play against good player teams in the few JQ adventures I had in the last few months, let alone teams in which players were the majority. So I can't really tell whether life transfer does well in that case. It did well enough against mixed teams of bots and players. I did not test the intriguing lingering curse idea, so I won't make assumptions about its performance. --Krschkr (talk) 17:49, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * So I'm testing this. What am I doing wrong? The LT->BS->(wait 2 seconds)->OG combo is not killing shrines. I have to change the 2 second wait to a 6 second wait, then it works. Sonofthort (talk)
 * With sup blood, its around 2 seconds. Sonofthort (talk)
 * Hmm, then maybe I tested the build with a superior rune. Odd, I thought I used my PvE nec. I'll do some matches now and see how the timing is. --Krschkr (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It's indeed a bit longer than 2 seconds. Using it when the target is at about two thirds of its health works, however, and is a better instruction anyway. The superior rune gives more leeway for capping, but feels worse overall. --Krschkr (talk) 00:18, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

[build=OAdTY0D/xxRwG4zNiqKuDBOBBA] Saxazaxx's idea seems to be clearly superior to both weaken knees and life transfer in terms of capping. Well of suffering has to be part of the main bar, however: Best damage output, unremovable, taints an area so even if foes counter-cap quickly the shrine is in danger or easy to counter-countercap. It's also less expensive and does not cause aggro. With those 3 damage skills this build applies a 10 pip degen for 30 seconds, which is quite impressive. Would anyone like to make a page for lingering curse? Else I'll do it eventually, I like it. Would be nice if someone tested lingering curse aswell to find some more/better utility skills (gole + windborne speed?) and maybe a variant that is somewhat good against jade carriers and players. --Krschkr (talk) 00:54, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Needs carrier/player damage skills--Saxazaxx (talk) 04:36, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Beat me to the punch. What happened to the carrier/player skills? I seem to recall testing LC, it was a while ago that I created the WK build. Its true that LC + Suffering at 14 curses can cap, no AtB needed. I seem to recall the same problem, less player/carrier options. It does have att's remaining, is there a way to be more deadly while retaining assassin secondary? I did do some testing. Although LT was alright, really the less smooth capping and the requirement that you stay alive kind of hampered it for me. It has great carrier killing though. The build does have good defense/healing, but I didn't find it all that useful. It's really not too inconvenient to die in JQ, that's part of the idea behind the bomber after-all. I did some revamping of the Rotting Flesh + Suffering idea as well. It's really not necessary to have 14 death magic, that was more tied to Rising Bile (which was a poor choice as it turns out). 11 death and 13 curses is enough. This leaves plenty of room for another attribute line. I merged the concept of the two builds, and was decently surprised. I changed to Toxic Chill, found it was much much stronger vs players, I was actually a modest threat. It's also nice for picking off single NPCs. Rotting Flesh + Suffering can actually allow for a bit more freedom, including in elite skill choice, and is pretty easy/reliable to perform. What do you think of this?

[build prof=N/A death=9+2 sou=7+1 cur=10+1+2 dead=10 sha=1][Shameful Fear][Enduring Toxin][Toxic Chill][Signet of Toxic Shock][Rotting Flesh][Suffering][Heart of Shadow][Dash][/build]
 * Here's another variant. It doesn't have as much oomph vs players and carriers, but the snare can be a nice utility. Rough sketch, can probably improve some things:

[build prof=N/A sou=8+1 cur=11+1+2 dead=10 sha=2][Lingering Curse][Suffering][Enduring Toxin][Shameful Fear][Shadow Fang][Crippling Dagger][Heart of Shadow][Dash][/build] Sonofthort (talk)

Poison or Bleeding Spear
Would a poison or bleeding (barbed) spear be better for this build? Cute Lethal Puppy (talk) 15:02, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Would be an option for more damage. I'm probably too timid about physicals which I want to keep weakened, but as there aren't so many of them anymore a damage mod makes sense. --Krschkr (talk) 17:10, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Vote
I had a lot of text in my vote, and it ended up not displaying very nicely, so adding more detail here:

Pros:

- Can cap. The basic nuke chain is slightly faster than the basic N/A JQ Degen Pressure nuke chain, although JQ Degen Pressure can speed up its nuke by casting TC and other degen skills (but bad for energy).

- Can kill carriers, pretty quickly.

- Has utility. Weakness is mostly useless vs melee/ranged, because melee is very rare, and getting hit by NPC ranger arrows is avoidable. However, it can shutdown/slow down some nukers who are relying on just hitting the attribute break point for their nuke to work. Strip Enchantment also has some decent utility.

- Can be a moderate annoyance/threat to players

- Decent survivability in some cases.

- Has Dash, which is likely the most powerful defensive and offensive skill available in JQ.

- Good shrine defender because of the survivability and utility.

Cons:

- The cap requires performing two skills, waiting about 6 seconds, then performing another skill. That 6 second downtime can be problematic. You can die in between, and are generally bound to the shrine during this time. You have to return to the shrine to finish the chain, exposing yourself to more damage.

- The survivability can be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy at times. The chain has a sacrifice, and you are required to stick around to complete the nuking chain, which exposes you to more damage which you could have been running away from. Also, you must survive in order for LT to finish.

- Blood Renewal doesn't work well as a quick spot heal, and there is a chance you will already cap health regen with LT. Have to preemptively cast it in most cases.

- Strip Enchantment is alright, but I don't find myself using it often. Would maybe prefer Heart of the Shadow, but my play style may just be different. I'm primarily focused on capping and killing carriers, for which Strip Enchantment rarely helps, but for which Heart of the Shadow can be a tremendous help. HotS is also a great defensive skill. Sonofthort (talk)