Archive talk:Team - Dual Spirit Spam

Why is this under Hero builds?! Heros cannot use summon spirits or vamperism.

Anthem of Disruption triggers spirit attacks? -- -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   14:14, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * It does, yes. Tested it myself =) Mikkelet 14:18, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * All chants which affect 'allies' also affect spirits 195.181.32.133 16:53, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ofc, I just cba'd to check if the spirit skills count as "attacks", and if the game follows sense far enough for it to actually apply. -- -Ch  ao  s is  gay -   17:07, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually managed to squeeze this team into Foundry NM today, and we actually made it to the third room where we, due to a lag error which caused a party to lure almost everything, got wiped. Mikkelet 20:31, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

SoGM seems kinda wasted when it only effects 3/8 of the spirits. Or is it bugged from the description? Shazzy diddles 00:18, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * it effects all allies. so if it doesn't trigger on some of the spirits, its either a bug, or a miss in what you saw. it should effect all 8.-- Ikimono "...And my axe" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 01:01, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you're mixing up the pve and pvp version. PvE is all spirits you control and PvP is targeted allied spirit. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 01:04, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * All spirits you control meaning none of the other player's --Shazzy diddles 02:46, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * wow i completely misread that. Thought it was anthem of disruption. Well i'm just gonna go to sleep now.-- Ikimono "...And my axe" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 03:04, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's correct that SoGM will only affect your spirits, but with the +10 damage, Anguish will be doing over 50 damage with +33% IAS against hexed foes. So it's a pretty nice elite - - -Mikkelet 14:18, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Get either 11 spawning on second rit or 8 command. This way you waste some att pts82.72.100.252 13:31, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

I think Spirit Siphon should be offered as a alternative for the channeling rit's Boon of Creation. The player could then run more energy intensive skills like Spirit Burn (more dmg), and Ghostly Haste(more dmg/hex spam/spirit recast); so long as they can handle the extra micromanagement.--Vectordeiz 08:12, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well.. Siphon is really not available on he Comm. rit, because you'll have to lower some stats and raise to channeling. And the channeling rit doesn't need THAT much energy, since it's spirits cost 0, 5 and 10 energy. So there'll be plenty for high cost skills tbh. :) Mikkelet 18:53, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, I modified the Comm. rit build. Spirit Siphon allows more energy, and also "stealing" energy from the Channel. rit's spirits. :) Edit: I've btw tested this on Naphui Quarters HM, worked like a charm :P --Mikkelet 20:06, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, your right the channeling rit's e management seems fine and giving spirit siphon to the comm rit allows it to manage energy more effectively when facing enchantment removal.--Vectordeiz 00:18, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

WTB Anthem of Envy
For better damage.--81.156.108.101 22:28, November 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Added AoE to the list :) Only downside is the 6 adrenaline req. Mikkelet 07:05, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Grab a spear + shield/focus weapon set for fast adrenaline gain.--Grandmaster Chen 15:59, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ofcourse you can do that, but then again, 6 adrenaline isn't THAT much. I was simply just mentioning it :P -Mikkelet 16:01, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, just suggest that a hero or another player brings it. 141.224.237.173 23:20, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Optional
Add Arcane Mimicry as an optional for first rit, moar damage! --ℜĭŧz ✔  16:13, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * SoGM at 0 comm will give you +5 damage and +33% IAS for 5 secs at a 60 secs rate :P Edit: You can also decrease SP by 2 and raise communing to 8. that'll give +8 damage for 13 secs. Still at 60 secs rate, so I dont know if it is worth it :S -Mikkelet 16:16, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * or you could go 12 com and take out boon for spirit siphon ^^ --ℜĭŧz ✔  16:24, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ofc, but there are a few downsides, as I should mention: siphon steals your spirits energy which is meant for the comm. rit. Arcane Mimicry has a recharge of 60 secs,so your spirits will get about 20 secs for raised damage and IAS, which isn't quite gonna cut it :( The idea is fine, but I'll not suggest it :) -Mikkelet 16:30, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * mm yea the recharge is a pretty long. Also siphon shouldn't be a problem since you will have lots of spirits to steal energy from, so it wouldn't affect the second rit. --ℜĭŧz ✔  16:46, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * I tested it at GToB, and I'll be honest with ya, I'll be better off running PI or Necrosis instead :P Not that they didn't pwn, but the use/recharge ratio+nrg cost is just too bad :/ (IMO, you can run if you want :P) -Mikkelet 18:16, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Consider using anthem on both, and GftE. Yes this will work on spirit's apart from the fact that they don't deal max dmg with critical, only double the damage they would deal, which is still very high with painfull bond Kiad Sauk 10:34, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Added! Thank you all for the feedback and nice ratings :D -Mikkelet 10:54, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

AoE?
"Very vurnarable to AOE, as long as you don't encounter AOE it will work perfect. (I know you can create spirit's apart, but with the teleport pve spell)"

False. AoE really isn't much of a threat to spirit spammers anymore. With the recent buff, all Spirits have higher levels meaning that they have more health and better AoE resistance. The buff has also drastically reduced casting time, so even if some spirits do die, they are quick and easy to recast without much fear of being interrupted. Also Summon Spirits can pull your spirits out of AoE bombardment. Please reconsider the rating.--86.167.178.207 16:16, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Build
Is poorly made I see what you are trying to do but you have useless skills sitting on those bars. &rarr; BERKS deedle...   dum... |undefined 16:39, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * ok? Like what? -Mikkelet 17:05, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * You have lots and lots of useless energy gain skills on your bars. &rarr; BERKS deedle...   dum... |undefined 18:19, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh you mean BoC and Siphon? -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 19:30, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Could someone good trashvote this? ;o -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 17:52, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * ? -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 18:10, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * You see, at the moment it doesn't have votes from anyone labeled as good, so I can really not know whether the build is worth using or not. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 18:18, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * So what does trashvote mean? :S (you could always try it out ;) ) -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 18:23, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Trashvoting=Voting below 3.75 -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 18:24, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * So you're asking some people to vote it bad? ): -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 18:26, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, I'm asking for good people to tell if it's good or not. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 19:29, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah ok :) -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 19:36, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Who's labeled as 'good'?--86.144.225.219 20:05, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Virtually no one who's posted anything on this page is good, with the exception of Chaos being less bad. Shazzy diddles 20:11, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * So just because they're less known they aren't good? What about anons like me?--86.144.225.219 20:17, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

I'd gues that those labeled 'good' has proven their worth. Anons haven't and never will (: - Mikkelet 20:19, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Bah, some anons here have earned very good reputations. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 20:20, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * ah ok :P -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 20:21, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * This is PvX, someone with a reputation votes on something, then others follow thier lead, often without trying out or even really looking at the build, sometimes. It's a harsh and not really fair system, but it kind of works, in a horrible, meat-grinding, disgustingly burocratically broken way. Widow maker 00:55, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because it is a horrible, meat-grinding, disgustingly burocratically broken system, it doesn't work in a fair manner. :) 71.112.82.32 13:01, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

so..
No good ppl are gonna vote on this? :S - Mikkelet 20:31, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Big is a substitute. Lau will bash the build if it's bad. -- -Chaos Clause - ChaosSoXmas.jpg   20:55, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Vote
"terrible setup, overkill on energy, highly inferior to upcoming vetted spirit spam build, how the eff did this even get vetted, nor greatwise?!"

1. The setup is decent: it combines 2 good elites with lots of spirits and para shouts. There is good optional space too- you can throw in some utility skills. 2. Energy is balanced- since you are going to be spamming SS and other skills you need plenty of energy. 3. Farming-wise the upcoming dual spirit spam build is better (spiritleech + AoU), but for general PvE (aka a full party) which this is designed for, this build is better.

Please reconsider your vote, or go into more detail about why you voted the build 0.--Grandmaster Chen 23:08, December 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't be bad :), if you are gonna run anything dual its for farming, why would you run this for general PVE when you can do a solo spirit spammer that has the same/maybe more potential then dual. Here are 2 bars if you HAVE to run 2 Rits in General PvE. &#8212; Forget  Santa clausjj.jpg 17:30, December 25, 2009 (UTC)



Destroy Agony right before it dies with Gaze of Fury to provide another spirit. &#8212; Forget   17:30, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

denied
removed well tag, this is meant for general pve, not just farming. also, if its worse than normal dual spirit spam. prove it. i personally like this better, as weakness FTW--Bluetapeboy 05:51, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Merge
I put a merge tag on because there is no inferiority going on here. The two builds are similar enough that they can be combined. Forgive, do not put the WELL tag back or else this goes to admin noticeboard for 1RV. ---  Ressmonkey  (talk) 15:03, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * I know &#8212; Forget  Santa clausjj.jpg 17:13, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kind of disagree with merge, One Spirit spam is meant for Any profession, this one is made for a Rit primary. Zedone2 23:36, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Last I checked rit was a profession and "a" falls into "any." --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 00:19, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * True. Point taken. Zedone2 03:24, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * The difference is that this is meant for 2 players, while the other build is meant specifically for hero/hench. --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  19:23, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The other build changed, so a merge tag might not be a good idea anymore. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 20:30, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Changed how? ;o As the build's creator, I've always meant it for H/H.  -THC
 * The merge tags changed. The build I was thinking of was Build:Team - 2 Man Spirit Farmer, which should be the one merging with this. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 16:58, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought about that one when I added the tag but it looks very different, considering its basically two any/Rt builds and for farming not general PvE. I think that one should be left out. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 17:32, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

I think a merge is pretty unnecessary. If we started merging all spirit spammer builds, then we wouldn't be doing anything else. I suggest that you add Ritual Lord as a variant and WELL the other build. - Mikkelet 11:08, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Added Prot build, better change the name now :) -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 11:35, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone know how to change the name to 4-Rit Spirit Lord? --Falconeye 04:42, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * We could also delete the 2 other builds, going back to what the page actual purpose: a 2 man spirit spammer. -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 07:20, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Comm Protection
Theres already a build specifically for Comm Protection with comes along with usage methods. The build on here needs boon of creation on the main bar. Is this now a team with 4 spirit spammers? UnwokenSpirit 17:51, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I figured if the resto rit was added, why not finish up the whole page by posting the protrit, too. Meh -[[File:Eme.jpg]] Mikkelet 07:16, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Thoughts
The channeling rit doesn't really need high spawning power at all, use spirit siphon for energy and summon spirits to keep them alive so you can consolidate the attribute spread. I guess SP helps with GDW but it would only really matter when trying to maintain it on 5 or more targets.

The SoGM rit could use spawning power with boon of creation instead of channeling with spirit siphon so that his spirits would be tougher (it would be more important for him to protect his spirits than it is for the channeling rit). Not a necessary change and less energy management overall but a viable variant.

Why minor runes? When I spirit spam my rit has 2 superior runes and 500hp and I don't have problems avoiding aggro. Good variant would be give the SoS a sup chan and maybe a sup resto, and give the SoGM a sup comm and maybe a major or sup rune in something else if it helps you hit a breakpoint.

I know PvX likes to assume everybody knows this stuff but it should be pointed out that vampirism and bloodsong's lifesteal stacks with spiritleech aura, and that they don't gain a damage bonus from SoGM, because technically they don't do damage (otherwise it would make more sense to try and put one of them on the SoGM bar). 141.224.237.173 23:48, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
For Meta'ing this and screwing up my /paragon with chants idea. The build was fine, and I honestly don't think that Disenchantment is needed. If there are no properly arguments for why I shouldn't, then Imma change the build back as it original was. -85.82.220.162 12:02, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Chants were an interesting idea, but they're unreliable. If you want interrupts, take Dissonance. iirc, when you use Summon Spirits, your Spirits sync their attacks on one target, so Anthem of Disruption would only ever interrupt once per use like that and you'll probably never be able to time it (2 second cast). Dissonance with SoGM means an interrupt every 1.33...3 seconds, which is pretty good if you can manage your Energy. Disenchantment might not always be useful, but it's cheaper than Dissonance and extra damage, anyway. ــѕт.  мıкε  14:25, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * What about variants? Though do you really need to put anthems on the rits instead of just taking a commandagon hero/player? Also, if you want to make a build and not have it be under pressure to get optimized/meta'd/strictly criticized, make it on your user page and don't category tag it or just make it on a different site like gamependium. Necromas 14:48, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meh, Imma just leave it. -195.181.32.133 11:30, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Viability
I have yet to see this used in any elite areas. As for a general team, synergy does not qualify a build page; you get approximately the same result with heroes. There really is no point in having this page when it's two builds that have synergy. I could make the argument two players with virulence and fevered dreams should get a page, but it would be pointless.-- Relyk  talk  01:31, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

It worked well for a friend and I, not too sure if it's been buffed/nerfed but we did this a month ago in UW, we cleared the Wastes and Labyrinth, we also used it in FoW but failed due to not listening to each other... We could probably clear the forest and beach. A fantastic build for sure. --16:55, 2 April 2011 (UTC)Necromankas
 * I think relyk's right - this is more of a guide for when ur party leader in a PUG accidently invites 2 rits - and they've gotten smart enough now to realise that identical builds = bad. This is just a glorified 2 Man Spirit Farmer, which is the example you used to defend the build. Denardraw 19:42, 22 April 2011 (UTC)