Archive talk:Team - Great Dwarf Strength

obaby, bring on the damages. 12:42, 2 January 2009 (EST)

and "BUH!" or "IAtS!" on the dervs, imo.  Ricky vantof  12:46, 2 January 2009 (EST)


 * I'd have to change this to a team build. 12:48, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Updated
More criticism needed, gogogo. 13:22, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * the buffer's blue bar is crying, some emanage needs to be mainbar --Ojamo  (>.<( O=(- -Q)  13:23, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * I figured I'd need to go /Me for some energy. Any suggestions? 13:25, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * truthfully, there's no need for a monk Primary (it's 1 less damage at r12), so if you're that bothered by energy, you could go Ele and stick points into E-storage (kind of passive E-managment). if I can find the (a?) bar I'm thinking of I'll post it in a min.  ~ PheNaxKian Sysop   13:27, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * True. How about Me/Mo? Fast casting, smiting, and some Inspiration. 13:28, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * Too bad it deals holy damage, otherwise you could've made it take Barbs and Mark of Pain (that trigger on physical damage only)  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  13:30, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * Who cares...? AoHM adds at least 21 damage no matter what, and with "BUH!", VoS, and Asuran Scan, it adds a ton more than Barbs/MoP/Orders will. 13:36, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * I couldn't find the bar on the wiki, and i can't think what it was completly off the top of my head but something like:
 * Ideally you'd have an extra enchantment and then one or 2 offensive spells (you could even cast SoH on an extra person or 2)  ~ PheNaxKian Sysop   13:38, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * No BiP? :< (keep your health under 50% for "BUH!) 217.120.228.192 13:40, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * I still think a Me/Mo would be better. Inspiration has 1337 e-management. 13:46, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * I still think a Me/Mo would be better. Inspiration has 1337 e-management. 13:46, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Buffer
I just made it any/Mo. I guess I should include some possible builds for it? 13:57, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * well the build i mentioned above is quite nice (you could take some smiting skills in the optionals). with a 20% enchant mod you can keep ER up (using GoS). Maintaining on 2 people (which is what you're doing here) means you get 12 energy per spell (x2 SoH and ER = 3 enchants, x4 at 15 ES = 12).


 * you could even drop some points into prot and take some better condition/hex removal.  ~ PheNaxKian Sysop   14:08, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * So SoH counts as an enchantment ON YOU? I think not. Unless maintained enchantments count as enchantments on you, your theory is moot. 14:56, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * moomoo cast SoH on yourself and just take something like succor or veil or anything moomoo Brandnew.  14:58, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * Why the hell would an ele need SoH? 15:09, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * ah, sorry I misunderstood the wiki note =s. ok then, cast ER and GDA, and like brandnew said, you could cast SoH on yourself as well. I'd rather the 4 extra energy each time a spell is cast than the 1 regen...(especialy when most of the bar are spells...)  ~ PheNaxKian Sysop   15:12, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'll mainbar this until someone gets a better suggestion. 15:28, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Added number crunch
I did that really quickly, someone tell me if I messed up. I rounded up if it was .5 or higher. I also mainbar'd the e/mo build. 15:52, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Testing?
Should I move it to testing now? 14:27, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Moved to testing
Let's see how the votes go. If this gets bad votes, I'll probably move it back to trial, request a vote-wipe, revamp the build, and put it back into testing. But this should get into the great category, since it does more damage than the Great Dwarf Spirit build, has more armor, has an open secondary, and is overall better. 16:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * C'mon you homos, vote this into the great category already. 18:03, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Forcing your teammates to change their skillbar isnt gud :/ And a different possibility is GDW on both frontliner's bars and changing to a 1hp BiP supporter with maso. No energy problems there. Oh and your calculations are incorrect, VoS affects bonus damage as well. Calculate that at the end. 20:16, 13 January 2009 (EST)
 * I figured I had it wrong with all of the % bonuses. Also, you're not really forcing them to change it, it is more of a "if you want to do more damage then change it". Heck, you could always run an ele with Crystal Wave to remove conditions. 1hp BiP'er isn't so hawt when you gotta BiP the frontline, since 1 hit=death. Energy is fine, as long as you don't fail. This is more or less the same build as the SS scythe, except you do more damage and have an open secondary. I'll fix those calculations. 13:49, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * I just realized that the calculations are correct, so lrn2maths Jebus. 2 x 2 x 3 = 2 x 3 x 2 = 3 x 2 x 2. It doesn't matter how you multiply it since you get the same answer at the end. 13:54, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * but you've got additions in there, so putting it at the end /would/ make a difference =p (at least it should)  ~ PheNaxKian Sysop   14:22, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * GDW adds at the end since it is a weapon spell. Other than that, there are no additions that VoS/BUH/AS don't effect. 15:11, 14 January 2009 (EST)

DCalc
As usual, I was bored, so I decided to pick up the gw:Damage calculation art and took this for a spin. Final damage, assuming everything is max ranked, AL 60, critted? 457,007141625, or just 458. So, a crit won't skyrocket your damage into the 500s, but it's still hella impressive. -- › Srs Beans R Srs  14:58, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * A crit is equivalent to max damage (41 since this is a scythe) and +20 damage rating (bringing your initial damage to 61). +32 from AoHM=93. +35%=125.55. +13=138.55. +30=168.55. +38%=232.599. +25%=290.74875. +75%=508.8103125. +20=528.8103125. I'm pretty sure that 529 is greater than 500. 15:09, 14 January 2009 (EST)


 * Except you're wrong. You don't add damage rating to your base damage, since base damage is the Raw Damage, not EffDR. -- ›[[Image:Many srs beans.png|Srs Bean Mafia.]] Srs Beans R Srs   15:17, 14 January 2009 (EST)


 * Also, first multiply the %-bonuses with one-another (1.2*1.35*1.75 etc), and multiply that with the damage amount. -- ›[[Image:Many srs beans.png|Srs Bean Mafia.]] Srs Beans R Srs  15:18, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * /sigh, I have to explain this again? EffDR=raw damage+DR modifiers. These are things like crits and AoHM. Therefore it adds directly to the raw damage (since it makes your EffDR, and the EffDR is what is multiplied by inscrips, customized, VoS, BUH, AS, etc.). After which comes the attack skill. Then any straight-damage enchantments (like SoH in this case). These can be added before or after the attack skill, as it'll give the same damage (1+2=2+1). After that comes skills with a % damage modifier. Weapon Spells apply last (otherwise, skills like Splinter could be increased by BUH and VoS and apply stupidly huge damage).
 * Now, for your latest comment, I agree with you. But it doesn't matter, because it is the same end-damage. 168.55*(1.38*1.25*1.75)=168.55*1.38*1.25*1.75=508.8103125. It's the same answer. I split them for 2 reasons. First, it helps the people that aren't so good at math keep up. Second, it is easier when I am multiplying stuff in the computer calculator, since there aren't parentheses.
 * Good day, sir. 15:28, 14 January 2009 (EST)


 * Read the fucking wiki page.

ED = [([RD × DScale × AE] + DShift) × DMult] + DNeg

RD = 41 (crit) <-- BASE DAMAGE, LOOKIES

AE = 2 ^ ( effDR - effAR / 40 ) AE = 2 ^ ( ( (BaseDR+DRBonus) - (baseAR*(1-NAP)+ARShift) ) /40)

Threshold = 12 Rank = 14 DR noncaster = 5*12 + 2*(14-12) DR Bonus crit = 20 DR Bonus AoHM = 32 (max rank) effDR= 64+20+32 = 116 <-- EFF DR WHICH IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN BASE DAMAGE YOU DAFT MORON

effAR = 60 * 1 + 0 = 60

AE = 2 ^ ( (116-70) / 40 ) = 2.219

DScale: 15 (Inscr), 75 (AScan), 25 (BUH!), 38 (VoStr), 20 (Customised) = 4,165875 DShift = +30 (Mystic) +15 (EBSoH) +20 (GDW) +13 (SoH) = 78 DMult=1 (2 for Undead/Frenzy) DNeg=0

(((41 * 4,165875 * 2.219) + 78) *1) +0 = 457,007141625
 * I added some CAPSED texts explaining what you're doing completely and utterly wrong.
 * Also, Windows calc has parentheses, noob. -- ›[[Image:Many srs beans.png|Srs Bean Mafia.]] Srs Beans R Srs  15:34, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * First I'd like to establish that 1) You breached NPA, but being that I'm nice, I won't bother with it, and 2) I don't use Windows Calc, I use a nice little calc that is in my Firefox window.
 * Next I'd like to establish that I've extensively tested this, and a critical hit with a scythe to a 60 AL target at 12 mastery gives 61 damage. Since all critical hits make you hit for max damage (41 for scythe), 61-41=20. See what I did there?
 * I'd also like to point out that when used with a customized scythe with a 15^50 inscription, a crit hits for 82 damage. Divide 82 by 1.35. Notice how it equals 60.740 repeating? That is rounded up to 61, which once again reinforces that a crit gives +20 when used with a scythe.
 * When used with AoHM at r5 (+25) under the same circumstances, the max damage observed was 116. The next highest value was 89. 116-89=27. 20*1.35=27. Notice that the crit gives me 27 damage because of a +35% boost? When you remove that +35%, it goes down to 20. Once again this reinforces that a crit is +20.
 * Not to mention that I've been testing these sorts of things for over 2 years. I'd suggest that you stop before you breach NPA further. 15:52, 14 January 2009 (EST)


 * My apologies. After looking over my notepad to calculate a normal crit I noticed I errored anyhow. Final damage is 528,743509125, or 529, as you initally had. And for the rest; Screw it. Who cares anyways >.<" -- ›[[Image:Many srs beans.png|Srs Bean Mafia.]] <font color="#27408B">Srs Beans R Srs   16:03, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm glad we could resolve this. No hard feelings; it was a simple mistake. 16:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not that it matters, but I just noticed that it even says that a crit gives a DR bonus of 20 in the thing from wiki that you posted. 16:28, 14 January 2009 (EST)

Vote this
Cut the faggotry and vote. 18:33, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thank you for voting this into Great. kthxbai. 11:22, 19 January 2009 (EST)

Why not use a sin instead of a derv?
Seems like you'd get more out of crit chance than mysticism, all things considered. 74.184.5.4 23:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * scythe hits 3 guys--Relyk 23:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * critscythe? --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  00:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think he meant critscythe too...-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 08:12, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mysticism. However, sins would work too. Cut the cookiecutter faggotry and learn to customize builds to your own needs. This is a template for win, not the only possible way to win. <span style="color:deeppink;font-family:Monotype Corsiva, Courier New, Courier, monotype;font-size:120%">--Slurry. 20:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)