Archive talk:R/Mo Escape Ranger

Old Discussion
Truly, i dont see enough damage for it to be efficient
 * This next comment is aimed at the anonymous person who posted above: Have you actually tested the build?  --Randomshuffle234234 06:28, 21 July 2007 (CEST)

Raw damage aint really the point of a thumper... Its about pressure... So the damage is enough tho I dont see why ppl would run this over the regular thumpers at all. Whats the real advantage? And btw... There is a point at which that some players dont really NEED to test to realise potency and efficiency... Not that many reach that point. But there is one reguardless *not so much aimed at just you as the multitude of players who use the argument* --Advent Mongoose  (talk ) 11:59, 21 July 2007 (CEST)


 * I'm assuming the standard thumper is the Rampaging Thumper so I will use it as the basis of comparison. Yes, the Rampaging Thumper/RaO Thumper is a very good build, but like everything, it has some downsides.  The RaO thumper is subject to counter pressure and is completely dependent on external healing/protection to survive.  I tend to see it more often in 8v8 where there will be at least 2 monks.  Oh but wait, since it's already 8v8, you need a better set of tools to create pressure.  Hench the trade-off:  for the smaller 4v4 fights, the Escape Thumper drops the pet-pressure for survival tools.  --Randomshuffle234234 17:23, 21 July 2007 (CEST)

I see this build as viable, it drops some of the damage aspect to obtain a higher survivability rate. The only problem I see is, it is designed to play with or without a monk, and if your team has no monk, if you come up against a good monk or 2(unless you have an insane good team)you will most likely lose, as they have healing, while your team doesn't. So I find the rampaging thumper a better build, as it has higher DPS and pressure, and if you don't have a monk, you are kinda out of luck anyway. In AB, this build would be perfect, it has blocking to solo cap melee shrines, a run stance to move to the next shrine, and a self heal if somebody targets you solo while you kite away/kill them. Only thing I see, is the Dodge/Zojun's Haste note, as if you hit you will lose the stance, and you might want a better stance I.E. Natural Stride, you can attack, another blocking stance (although 50%, but it is enough to stop a sin) and a speed boost of 33%. It isn't constant, but it is nice with that wilderness survival.Armor of the Sun 01:55, 23 July 2007 (CEST) (sorry forgot to sign)


 * Build:R/W_Lightning_Hammer is a similar build, but you can have Lightning Relfexes on almost all the time. For the optional slot take Whirling Defence. Mokele Smash could be used as well to help recharge adrenaline for "On Your Knees!" - New meta is the Chewbacca Defence  17:35, 26 July 2007 (CEST)

Suggestions
Post here. Currently this is vD's Ranger build, not sure what other possiblities are. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 23:21, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Is Escape really worth sacrificing Crippling Shot? And Natural Stride isnt that worse compared to Escape. Asdfg 23:27, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * dif's between nat stride and escape: 25% of blocking and conditionality. escape kinda sucks now... ~ ZamaneeJinn [[Image:Zealot's Fire.jpg|19px]] (contribs) 23:32, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Longer duration, goes well with the attribute speccing for the common Apply Poison ranger (14 expertise vs 10 WS), 8 sec 75% blocking is pretty good imo. Sacrificing some pressure/damage/snare for more IAS/blocking/survivability. Also, I forgot that Escape doesn't end if you get enchanted/hexed. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:37, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * It has the same duration. Not everything that high-ranked guilds run is gud. e.g. Lightning Arrow sins or pre-buff escape bunny thumpers. Asdfg 23:41, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Read: Escape is attributed to Expertise. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:00, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * BA>This. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 01:59, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Also, Deep used to run HP, so no go on vD. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 02:00, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * HP ownzzzz &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:40, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Also, clear votes plx. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:44, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Thanks. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:51, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * It is now safe. I have killed the evil bugs. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 04:07, 14 August 2007 (CEST)

Sloth hunter's shot
Use it, it'll double the damage output, even at only 10 marksmanship &mdash; Skuld 13:52, 10 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Or deal more damage with Screaming. :o &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:07, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Everyone runs this with Screaming. I'm changing it.  87.74.32.31 12:08, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Sorry - just saw the change history after adding Screaming, so I think I've probably broken some wiki rule. But if it's a choice between religiously following wiki rules and having the builds people actually use, I know which I'd go for.  87.74.32.31 12:13, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
 * And if its a choice between what people use and what is good, I know which i'd go for.. &mdash; Skuld 15:38, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Screaming Shot it is! &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:44, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

Stop fucking reverting. GW:1RV –Ichigo724 10:16, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Sloth Hunter's Shot adds conditional 27 damage at this marksmanship, every 10+ seconds if you keep paying for it. Screaming on the other hand is 6 DPS of bleeding, which will in the recharge+shot time of Sloth Hunter's (8 recharge, 2.4 seconds to fire with recurve) deal 60 damage or more.  Sloth Hunters can act as a better spike skill.  They're different; you'd gank faster with screaming and threaten solo players more; you can spike assist with Sloth. --Epinephrine 22:01, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * You are more of a threat at stand with Sloth, because you aren't just fueling RC and dismiss heals. And that combined with not too shabby split performance, and I'd say go with Sloth. - Auron 00:55, 10 November 2007 (CET)

I think it should be noted that sloth hunter's shot should be included in the AB variant. However, I would agree that screaming is better for arena's for better pressure. Not that AB matters a bunch to the PvPers out there, but this works really well in that format. Most sins don't take wild strike, and there are even less warriors and dervishes that take wild blow. Not that a ranger absolutely needed to improve their matchups against these classes, but it does help. It does make fighting the mirror a bit better as well. I also found that it makes solo capping the warrior shrine a bit easier. Supa tim 13:37, 4 January 2008 (EST)

Old Discussion doesn't belong here
The build discussed in "Old Discussion" of this page is about a R/W build called "Escape Thumper" that didn't survive the vetting process. It has nothing to do with this current build. It seems to be an honest mistake. If nobody objects, it should be deleted from this page. Randomshuffle234234 02:58, 11 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Why? Archive it if you don't like it on the page. Otherwise, who cares? :/ –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 04:17, 11 September 2007 (CEST)

Troll Unguent
Is Troll Unguent really the standard? I'm partial to Restful Breeze for a heal when retreated/ing, you can get a pretty decent heal off of it (at 3 Healing Prayers it's 7 seconds of 10 regen) and much less likely to be caught, but admittedly it doesn't allow for continuing to fight.--Epinephrine 13:49, 25 September 2007 (CEST)
 * You're already specced into Wilderness for Unguent, you can attack through it, and it's reduced by expertise. [[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets]]Ibreaktoilets 16:10, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

Vote on Sloth versus Screaming
Heck with it. Let the majority speak.

We don't vote on wikis other then the rating page, we come to a consensus. — Skakid9090 22:13, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Sloth Hunter's Shot
 * --[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 22:24, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * At that marksmanship, screaming is i guess better.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 18:47, 3 October 2007 (CEST)
 * only in AB--Moriz 20:13, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 * Screaming Shot
 * --Epinephrine 22:06, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * [[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets]]Ibreaktoilets 22:29, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * [[Image:Frenzy.jpg|50x19px]]Punjab 22:30, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 22:31, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * --[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 18:47, 3 October 2007 (CEST)
 * No consensus is emerging - hence the vote? PvX:IGNORE  I get that a consensus would be good, but if one is impossible how does one solve the issue? --Epinephrine 22:20, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * i think hes right.[[Image:Darksig.JPG]] 22:24, 2 October 2007 (CEST)
 * The only other relevent policy I can find is PvX:MAA, so we can get an arbiter in maybe, but really the issue should be decided one way or the other. I don't want to get all wiki-lawyering about it, was just trying to solve a problem. --Epinephrine 22:27, 2 October 2007 (CEST)

Escape Ranger as a viable top-tier build
There's really not much point in running Escape over other Ranger Elites if you're just going to go with the standard Ranger bar. Cripshot, Magebane Shot, and Burning Arrow are all better. A different line of thinking:

[build prof=r/mo expert=12+1+3 marksm=11+1 wilderness=5+1 protec=4][Distracting Shot][Concussion Shot][Savage Shot][Point Blank Shot][Apply Poison][Escape][Mending Touch][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Escape is such a strong self-defense that you can afford to take a Superior Rune and drop Troll Unguent. The benefit of taking this Elite is how it lets your Ranger absolutely sit in the opposing backline. Unless they have a specific counter like Wild Blow/Wild Spear, there's not really anything that can be done to force the Ranger out. As such, I've selected skills that benefit from the positional advantage + 16 Expertise. Concussion Shot becomes workable with the 9 energy cost and is quite a scary skill when it's able to be used. Point Blank Shot puts out as much DPS as Screaming Shot for when you want your Ranger to go gank NPCs, while also providing for a stronger spike at the stand. Zuranthium 20:57, 23 November 2007 (CET)


 * ... &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:49, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Blah, don't be useless. Edit to a real comment so we can actually have something to talk about. Zuranthium 01:13, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * You didn't make one to begin with. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:14, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Are you daft? Zuranthium 04:55, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * No. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:11, 27 November 2007 (CET)

You need Troll Unguent for when you gank. Escape doesn't make Superior runes acceptable. 3 interrupts are generally not needed and Point Blank Shot is inferior to Screaming Shot because Screaming inflicts Bleeding and can be used at range. Viet (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:43, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Can't agree with any of that. A Superior Rune is fine. Paragons just about always take a Superior or Dual Majors for the same reason as this character...they are hard to kill. Troll isn't absolutely necessary for ganking unless you're fighting a hex team. No other single character should be able kill this guy and if they send multiple threats back you should be running anyway or getting support anyway. Point Blank Shot vs. Screaming...yeah, Screaming has more range which can make it better for ganking but Point Blank is better for spiking and just as good in terms of pure DPS. That skill slot is totally flexible anyway. The 3 interrupts issue...you're not spamming Conc Shot. You're using it to apply Daze. Broad Head Arrow bars bring both Distracting Shot and Savage Shot, yes?


 * The basic overall point is that this Ranger can actually do something really useful -- apply daze. There's no real reason to take the current Escape Ranger template in GvG and that's why people did not continue to play Escape Rangers after that initial period when it was buffed and Guilds were testing it out. Zuranthium 04:55, 24 November 2007 (CET)


 * And you're putting a senseless suggestion to make a good build bad. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 05:22, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * It's not a good build. Or at least, not ever worth bringing in comparison to other options. How much do you GvG? Zuranthium 09:06, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Escape is what makes it bad, not Zuran's additions. - Auron 09:12, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * You suggested Concussion shot. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:05, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * And you suggested Escape. He wins this round. - Auron 06:41, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * Conc Shot is a strong skill. It's only held back by the energy cost, which is alleviated by being able to run 16 Expertise here. Zuranthium 11:22, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * Why would you run 16 Expertise with both Escape and Concussion Shot? The current version is better. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:14, 26 November 2007 (CET)
 * That statement made no sense. How does having 16 Expertise, Escape, and Concussion Shot conflict with each other? The exact opposite is true, in fact, for reasons already stated - with Escape you're able to freely sit in backlines and 16 Expertise reduces the cost of Concussion Shot to a workable amount. Not sure which part of that is confusing. Zuranthium 04:46, 26 November 2007 (CET)
 * The part where you lose 75 hp. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 04:48, 26 November 2007 (CET)
 * Or the part where you get Conjure Phantasm'd to death. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:59, 26 November 2007 (CET)
 * Now you're just making shit up. Nobody runs conjure phantasm in GvG, and if you honestly die from it, it's not because of your 75 less HP, it's because your monks are absolutely terrible. The greatest threat of having less health is being prone to spikes; if you've got a near constant 75% block stance on, you aren't going to be spiked down. - Auron 02:22, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * D/W –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 02:23, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Deep wound is a percentage!... &mdash; Skuld 02:27, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * ...I didn't mean deep wound. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 21:24, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Nobody runs Concussion Shot in GvG. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:11, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Nobody runs Escape in GvG. What's your point? Unless you're insinuating that the few days where people were trying it out after the buff counts as "running it?" - Auron 12:12, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * I don't remember saying that people commonly run Escape in GvG. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:11, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * Then I'd be forced to conclude your statement this build is "[b]ecoming more and more widely used by top guilds" needs to be un-equivocal-ized. [[Image:Shogunshen_Sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black"> Shen (contribs) 02:21, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * Where now? The closest thing that I can find to that is "deep ran this". &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:26, 28 November 2007 (CET)

Either way, Escape is trash. Conc shot isn't a great skill, but it isn't as trashy as Escape. Zuran's point is that if you were going to be dumb enough to run Escape now, you might as well make most use of it; conc shot to apply daze at point blank range is easily the best use for that skill slot. I mean, you could bring Screaming Shot (which is tragically useless at stand, which is where you are roughly 80% of all matches), but Conc shot makes you a better team character (As good as one with Escape can be, anyway...). Conc shot works on splits and at the stand (if the other team sends a solo healer against your split team, you could singlehandedly rape him with daze while your split team pummels his). And as I pointed out earlier, you aren't going to be dropping dead from damage because you're conveniently blocking 75% of all attacks (including paragon wanding, which is a huge chunk of DPS), so you might as well bring a sup expertise rune - since the drawbacks are limited to dying from Conjure Phantasm. - Auron 08:56, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * And like I said above but skuld misinterpreted: D/W. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 11:05, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * Right, because every team runs a melandru dervish with wild blow, especially on splits. Glad you brought it up. - Auron 12:22, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * If you're ganking, you might as well run BA for more damage (and troll, much?). At the stand, melandru's dervs are pretty common (and most of em run wild blow). Hoping the enemy team doesn't run a melandru's derv or your elite choice fails is pretty sucky. Regardless, I don't see the point of the current build nor the variant over BA, but it's probably me. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 15:22, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * No one attacks a ranger :/. They are the most durable class in the entire game. Escape is not a great skill; especially in comparison to crip/mbane. However, if its usage is necessary (for whatever reason), then I would sub for pin/sloth. Perhaps conc, though daze is pretty worthless. This build specifically, is meant to gank. It offers very little support at stand, and is less useful defensively/offensively on a split (than Cripshot). Overall, it offers very little to a team. 209.189.130.127 23:12, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * Daze is not worthless, why do you think 99.9% of all balanced(or near balanced) TA builds bring a second condition removal for your monk? Because when your monk gets hit with daze, many times it's gfg for him. Smooths 20:40, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Hahaha, I hadn't checked this discussion since I made my last comment here. I definitely stand by my original statement. The current Escape Ranger on the main page is pointless in comparison to the other Rangers you can run. My version may not be on the level of a Cripshot/Magebane either, but at least it can DO something different. Zuranthium 19:07, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * This works better. ^_^ &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  19:10, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * What, the one on the main page? For AB, sure, and RA - maybe. Otherwise, no. Zuranthium 19:16, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * TA teams built around Escape (lolol) work better w/ the main page one. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  19:18, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Ewww, no. Zuranthium 19:28, 10 February 2008 (EST)

What are you guys talking about. The only use for escape is making a shitty ranger not dying, and that's about it. C-shot is nice, yeah, but many teams bring both draw and rc. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  16:32, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

So now that almost every team is bringing MoI, whats the point of bringing this skill?--159.230.137.166 12:40, 22 January 2009 (EST)

When was this last used in top gvg?
^ Massive   12:44, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Also, maybe a a vote-wipe? some VERY olds Ratings here, and it its definantely some better elites out there after some of the minor buffs to forexample, MEL and BA .. Massive  12:46, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's not tagged for GvG so GG. - [[Image:Miserysig.PNG|117px]] (talk)  12:48, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Needs Dwarven Stability and....nevermind realised it was for PvP half way through. =( --Anonimous. D: 12:51, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Standard R bar with escape isn't all that desirable. Even in places like CM or AB your better off with cripshot to immobilize others. NStride is strong enough IMS on own.-- Under Gunned  23:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Melshot is more popular and arguably more effective than cripshot.152.226.7.213 01:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

LOL not in meta clearly
This is so unpopular that they forgot to archive it.<font color="green" size="2px">Ajsnuker 22:42, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes because bows generally do come under melee and because the nerf to escape CLEARLY MAKES THIS BUILD A LOT WORSE. Please read the update properly before you make a smart ass comment. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  22:34, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * I GOT PWND BY FROSTY =P =======> <font color="green" size="2px">Ajsnuker 22:42, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * And by Chaos, l2indent, noober :O -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:11, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Bleh...im sure im not the first one too faiul to see the melee in melee attack <font color="green" size="2px">Ajsnuker 01:26, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * nope, few hundred R/A's were still using escape days after the update in RA.-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 02:24, October 1, 2009 (UTC)