Archive talk:Team - 3 Hero Balanced

Not sure if this is all too complicated or not. But I figure this is close to the best you can run that still remotely resembles Sabway. -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  18:58, November 27 2010 (UTC)
 * Prots to MM, defensive curses to healer(Enfeebling, SoF), open secondary on SoS/Panic for fall back, SoH, etc. Life Guardian 23:53, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point. I had put the curses on the necro over the Rit/Mes for the rune advantage, but running them on the healer would probably be a better idea. -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  01:46, November 28 2010 (UTC)

this isn't sabway, think of a new name-- talk  03:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * o.- looks exactly like what i was running 6 months ago. Athrun Feya 18:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * let's call it Lauway then--Christmas sig.jpg talk  21:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's the same principle, but just with the curses and resto merged into one build. If you want to call it something else, then what do you suggest? -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  20:33, November 29 2010 (UTC)
 * Build:Team - Balanced Heroway considering this is the most generic team you could come up with--Christmas sig.jpg talk  21:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's still one of the best hero builds you can run, and that name is horribly boring. -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  22:57, November 29 2010 (UTC)
 * Just the fact that it has a dedicated defensive role makes it kinda meh tbh. Life Guardian 23:48, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I was modeling it after sabway, which is Meta and rated Great. But if you want, I could try to add a more offensive variant for the resto. -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  01:15, November 30 2010 (UTC)

Problem with sabway is that its like, 3 years old by now. I'd probably run something like that. Only problem is the lack of MBaS. I suppose the support skills could be switched around, drop ancestors, and add it, but idk. Actually, scratch that. This is for idiots. keep it the way it is. Life Guardian 02:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hence, you know, the update. And is CoF essential? That's probably what I'd be inclined to replace. Also, this isn't just for physicals, so SoH shouldn't be mainbar IMO. -- Jai's Crappy Christmas Sig  ... -  02:47, November 30 2010 (UTC)
 * it's optional, but you dont have much better options. I'd leave it at rt/any since soh is useless for casters. you can fag it out with whatever then.--Christmas sig.jpg talk  06:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

So yeah, now it does need a rename, since any remnants of Sab are gone. I'll try and think of something slightly non-generic to change it to. -- Jai 's Crappy Christmas Sig ...   -  22:18, December 1 2010 (UTC)

Why are the resto skills on the mesmer? Sorry for the noobish question, I'm a noob. ^^ Dank Rafft 06:22, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * for healing--Christmas sig.jpg talk  06:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant why are they in the mesmer skill bar instead of the ritu bar? Dank Rafft 06:38, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Because the rit is better off being used for utility than for healing, since it has more attributes (and energy) to spare. Having a 12-spec in smiting, command, or blood is more important than having a 13-spec in resto. -- Jai' s Crappy Christmas Sig...  -  18:22, December 2 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't comprehend this (insufficient experience) but thanks for your answer. :) Dank Rafft 02:23, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I use something similar with my rit character. I do standard spirit spam, Gwen's panic with resto, Whispers as an MM with splinter weapon, and then Thackary as a commandagon. I know a commandagon seems a little out of place but anthems trigger on spirit attacks and GFTE works on minions. It's not quite optimal but it does work pretty well. Necromas 23:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Update March 3rd
Should this build be expanded to 7 heroes now? Quadreal 10:10, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 7 hero builds should probably just get separate pages. 3-hero builds are still useful for party size 4 areas and 2-man 6-hero setups. Sometimes you have a person to play with. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 15:18, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Panic
Do 3-hero builds really need it? Mob sizes aren't usually large enough to warrant it in those areas. I'm thinking either make the mesmer more of an offensive build or just swap it down to the variant bar and make the Curses healer the standard one. --  Toraen   talk  02:52, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I was already thinking that. Probably either PI or ESurge, tbh. -- Jai . -  02:55, July 13 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably go with PI so that there's only 3 attributes to use. I believe there is a PI Resto mesmer build that's decent. Perhaps that one could be used instead of Panic?Dragonphlu 03:34, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd go with a generic smite support, with resto thrown on the SoS, assuming the player is running melee. AegisDok 05:23, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Problem with that is that a smite would really only be used by melee players. We could list variants for the third build if we moved resto up to the rit though. Maybe also say that the resto can be moved back onto one of the optional builds if you find the SoS to be a better carrier of utility in some cases. --  Toraen   talk  05:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Dropping the MM is also an option. It's more for c+spacing stuff than serious play tbh. If you want to kill stuff fast, invoke ele or ineptitude mes with command/prot, sos healer, and sogm with options for smite/command/prot; you can also switch for ST rit but it isn't worth it when you have prots.-- Relyk 05:43, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Taking two rits would make this spiritway! This will probably end up as a catch-all build for any 3-hero setup that isn't an established Meta build (Spiritway, Discordway, or Sabway). So, it basically just has to incorporate using a monk or mesmer hero (maybe ele as well). Otherwise it's basically an already posted build's variant. --  Toraen   talk  06:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ^That's my flow of logic. It doesn't have to be an second rit, but that's the best way to bring SoH and it's easy to bring other utility. It's hard to call a build balanced when balanced means hiding behind a spirit and minion wall and letting them kill everything for you. My idea/goal of balanced would be dropping minion/spiritwall focus for damage to kill crap. That way we'd be covering something that isn't already covered by the meta builds.
 * Or stick heals on SoS and leave the 3rd hero optional for, but that seems lame-- Relyk 06:40, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Eh, maybe just archive this? I can't think of any really good way (that preserves the original concepts of the build) to make this different from established 3 hero builds while still being on-par/useful. If someone comes up with a neat gimmick for a 3 hero team that isn't already here, it can be a new page. --  Toraen   talk  02:31, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * SoS, MM, n/rt healer is a very common setup though :< On the other hand, the panic bar isn't common at all. I'd be happy to leave this setup without the panic bar. You either go to this or spiritway when all else fails (such as WoC content).-- Relyk 02:42, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * i personally run SoH on prot necro (8 in prot, 7 in smiting, over putrid bile/masochism), curses on sos, and esurge on mesmer healer.--Bluetapeboy 18:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Change
I think it was mentioned some up above, but it would probably be better for the SoS to take the resto skills and then have a third hero for damage (ESurge, Inept, RoJ, etc.). If no one's opposed to it, I'll probably change up the build later today. -- Jai .  -  14:53, April 22 2012 (UTC)
 * That'd make sense, seeing as it's what people actually run :> P e W  :> 15:24, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * what about replacing the prots? PS can stay but Aegis and SoA aren't very useful in 4man areas. maybe Curses and Prot @4 are enough &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 16:06, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Bars
/ Curses Support Bomber /Any SoS Utility / Healing Burst hybrid

Great bars, although this feels very much like a 3-man physical support team that lacks SoH and hex removal. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 16:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Monk might as well be a Necrit, but main bar PoD makes little sense. AotL is probably superior to Jagged in most areas. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 16:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Third slot should ideally be offensive, as long as you can stick prots somewhere in the team, since I can't imagine you'd need 2 healers in 4-man areas (especially with a minion wall and some spirits). Barbs on the bomber would be pretty iffy though. It already has its hands full with raising minions and casting Death Nova. Maybe just throw curses support on an Air ele? Smaller mob sizes mean that the limited AoE is less of a problem, and Shell Shock would be nice instead of Weaken Armor. Maybe throw in an optional mesmer bar for when you want armor-ignoring+shutdown. -- Toraen  wiki  07:25, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually let's just archive this. 'Balanced' is a laughable concept in PvE to begin with, and minion+spirit wall doesn't really embody a 'balance' playstyle. -- Toraen  wiki  18:12, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Go for it if you feel like it. On the other hand, a team with AotL, SoS rit and a UA healer/necrit is pretty core to me at least, especially if I'm a physical.. Although I'd pack a smiter. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 20:32, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah I understand it for a physical, where you'd take either smiting on the rit, or a third with SoH so the rit takes resto. Unfortunately this was trying to be generalized for caster players as well (should have split pages for that). If I was going to optimize this for physicals, it'd probably be something like N/Mo Prot Bomber, Rt/P Channel/Heal + FB (atts might be kinda screwy), and N/Mo Curse Smiter. I don't really like using MM heroes as a melee player anymore though. -- Toraen  wiki  09:45, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not minions? This isn't to say you're wrong, I just can't come up with a reason (other than that they're boring to look at all the time). I generally don't take Fall Back in PvE unless I expect to run a lot or already have someone specced into Command for GftE and maybe Anthem of Envy (I run the weirdest physways). Speccing 8 into utility could be better spent than laziness.
 * Anyways, these changes would be a team in theirself. Apparently the PvE team category is in a pretty bad state too, and I dislike combining UW farming teams with generic PvE teams. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 11:08, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well you see I am actually incredibly lazy (but specifically so) and need FB to move my fat ass around at all. Also as a melee I prefer balling foes myself and when I unflag an MM to get his minions in the nukes go off and everything is dead already. The Death Novas just aren't very relevant to that playstyle and the bodyblocking/damage soaking ability goes unused. Granted there's some times where I'm actually lazy and take an MM and don't ball on my own.
 * On the team categories: they're mostly redundant. Their purpose is actually served by the 'Team - ' prefix in their titles. Actually searching by the Team category is a trap you see, designed to waste your time. -- Toraen  wiki  17:24, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I keep the MM because I usually run heavy physical synergy (Blood Bond, MoP, Barbs, possibly GftE and even Winnowing/Predatory Season because I can. It's awesome). Your reasoning makes sense though. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 17:29, 15 August 2015 (UTC)