Archive talk:Team - Nightmare Spike

8-man
Can Somebody Create an 8-man of this?
 * Add 2 support players mebbe? Rt restorer, spirit spammer, bsurger, melee hate necro or something. The spike should be strong enough either way. Maybe a SP/TS spiker to divert the monk support while spiking. I have no clue really, but I'm in chatty mood. ^^ Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 20:06, 9 May 2007 (CEST)

Why Rit/Rangers? Wouldn't Ranger/Rit's have a higher AL and still play the build correctly since no use of Spawning is used?
 * *Points to 16 channeling magic* -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 07:42, 7 June 2007 (CEST)

This happens to be my Favourite build, so it can be my first post on the new server. Anyways, you need Rit/Ranger because of the need to raise channeling to 16. Can't add the Rit runes to Ranger armor stuff. As for filler in the other two slots, you could use a flag runner with snares. Probably with Blurred Vision, Freezing gust, possibly ice schakles, etc. And for the other spot, Maybe another spiker with a spare spirit, or other knicknack skill, just in case?


 * Idea, Rupture spirit/Lively was Naomi on the new spiker, just to remove frozen soil when needed. Mg 20:58, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

I think this should be moved out of tested section until its updated to 8vs8.


 * Add two more spikers. Doesn't matter if they're the same as the others, unless anyone can think of some other useful spirits. But you're right, perhaps a note saying that should be added. Me, it's almost 1:20 am, I'm heading for bed. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 04:16, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

For 4v4, I recommend wielder's strike instead of natural stride, it allows for a stronger spike, especially if your target is hiding. Napalm Flame  ^_^ (talk)(contributions) 05:48, 14 June 2007 (EDT)


 * But this is a HA team D: Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 05:52, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Used in TA too. Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)(contributions) 05:53, 14 June 2007 (EDT)


 * Yeah but this very teamsetup is for HA, the actual one man build mention the variant you spoke off. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] 05:55, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Yep. Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)(contributions) 05:56, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

IMO there is no need for a mesmer or any monk diverter for this spike. It's just far too fast and powerful if executed properly. -- Nova   --  (contribs) 21:03, 1 August 2007 (CEST)

Um in case you guys didnt notice..this is an 8 man build.. if u read the whole script he/she gives 6 builds and tell u to use 2 monks which links are given below giving you a grand total of 8 players..just thought i should mention it lol.
 * It wasnt an 8 man build before nova made it that. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey   (talk)  14:35, 30 August 2007 (CEST)

Suggestion for 8-man build
I believe that the 8-man build should have the ritualists using seeking arrows, which will allow them to bypass blocking in their spikes. Although, this requires them to have high marksmanship, which makes them drop wilderness survival. Once they do this, they can no longer use kindle arrows or their spirits. Kindle arrows can be replaced by a OoV necromancer who can also bring ritualist healing skills and restoration spirits. As for the spirits the ritualists used to use, this can be remedied with an oath shot spirit keeper. The builds can be seen here:

[build prof=ritua/range channe=12+1+3 marksm=12][nightmare weapon][dual shot][distracting shot][seeking arrows][favorable winds][optional][offering of spirit][resurrection signet][/build] [build prof=range expertise=12+3+1 wilder=10+1 beastm=8+1][oath shot][quickening zephyr][fertile season][frozen soil][whirling defense][natural stride][storm chaser][resurrection signet][/build] [build prof=necro/ritua soulre=10+1 bloodm=11+1+1 restor=10][order of the vampire][blood ritual][recuperation][life][recovery][spirit light][mend body and soul][lively was naomei][/build]

The problems that may occur in this build are that the spikers now have no way to block attacks. Also, I am not sure if OoV will activate if no damage is taken from the attack, because 0 damage may be untyped. Confirmed that OoV will trigger on 0 damage from nightmare weapon. Also, the ranger will act as you runner if you get to HoH. Finally, this also allows for pressure in between spikes because your attacks actually deal damage. Ressmonkey 11:57, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

I haven't been on Guild Wars much, this team still see regular use in HA? I'd hate to see my 15 minutes of typing this thing out on Guild Wiki go to waste =(--Hikari 19:51, 3 July 2007 (CEST)

Nowowow I hope you don't mind me using the suggestions Rezmonky. -- Nova   --  (contribs) 21:08, 1 August 2007 (CEST)

Discussion for 8 man build
Okay everyone, throw in your opinions please before I move it to Testing. -- Nova   --  (contribs) 21:36, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Recovery isn't an excuse not to bring an RC, its still a big heal. the only thing it's really useful for is for disease, which u say to bring extinguish for anyways. i dont think the runners are very good, I'd rather have another character go /p and bring make haste, brace yourself and spam it on the runner. you could change the necro to a paragon, possibly angelic bond, give him brace yourself and make haste, song of concentration, and go for the eyes + vicious attack to DW during your spike. Just my two cents though, in its current state i wouldn't give it that good of a rating.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 03:31, 3 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Sure about no orders damage? -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:06, 3 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Okay just read your comment a bit more thoroughly. DW is not needed here mainly because the life stealing damage is far more than enough when executed properly to kill a target. Also, not sure if Deep Wound would trigger on 0 damage, the target might be left with 1 hp or something awkward like that after the spike.
 * As for the running, yeah, it sucks. But it's more like Ranger Spike than it is like Air Spike where everything works out so perfectly. Taking out Orders would drop damage to ~600 which is the health level many monks may have in the first place. Even a Divine Favor bonus would prevent a spike at that level. As for the monks, yes, I phail. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 02:01, 4 August 2007 (CEST)

Omg lmao, i was about to say, no savage shot wtf? Then i stopped and though about nightmare weapon. lol.Dark0805|Rant 02:43, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I suggested the DW b/c it would lower your target to ~ 480 max health, killing them pretty easily with just nm weapon alone. you can even have him bring some sort of motivation if you want, but give him make haste, brace yourself, and fall back/song of concentration. u have much better relic running ability, and will really do more for the team than orders ever will.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 03:41, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * My only concern would be Aegis Chains that stop DW, and if that happens all of a sudden you have a failed spike with no enchantment rending or antiblock. Anthem of Guidance might work but then you still need Seeking Arrows because Guidance only guides 1 arrow for each spiker, and then the para just has a wasted elite. But the motivation could really help out the monks. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 20:16, 4 August 2007 (CEST)

IMO hard res should be standard on one of the spikers. --Lost 19:36, 5 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Variants... consider resurrection signet as "generic resurrect." -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 19:53, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

Needs moar sight beyond sight. –Ichigo724 20:39, 5 August 2007 (CEST)

Ok, deep wound is not needed because this spike actually does 900 damage (forgot to factor in vamp weapons in notes). 900 is enough to kill anyone even with fertile season up. If fertile season is up and you use deep wound without an orders and it gets removed, you will only deal ~600 damage, which will leave the spiked target at 150-250 health. Also, about your RC comment Cheese Slaya, mend body and soul is almost as good for condition removal and isnt elite. Because you can have 9 spirits at a time up, and there are 9 conditions, mend body and sould has the ability to remove every condition in this build. || Ressmonkey 22:29, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Only a few concerns about that is the high amount of SH in HA atm. But since I'm rather noob at this, I'll just leave more stuff open (e.g. rez, between some sigs and some hard rezes), monk slots, etc. After all there is no skill by skill build set up for nightmare spike, unlike Zergway which can only have like a few variations between oath and paras. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 03:25, 7 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Speaking of that rezmonkey, above 500 hp, dw only reduces hp by 100. So certainly not enough damage with Fertile up. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 14:13, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

2 thumbs up!!!!!!!great team build.mizzouman 19:43, 8 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Okay, lets get some things straight. in the builds current state, it has: poor relic running ability, no snares to stop the other's relic runner(s), a really bad choice for spirits on the ranger, most of which will help the other team more than yours, and four low-armor rits doing the bulk of the spiking. change the necro to a para (or hell, make him n/p) and give the para make haste, brace yourself, fall back and/or song of concentartion. he can then bring go for the eyes + vicious attack for a deep wound (if the target is at 600 health, which many will be, theres an unconditional ~120 damage or so) or on the n/p, give him go for the eyes + find their weakness (doing this you get both orders and DW damage, better relic running, and protection from your ghostly being interurpted on king of the hill matches.) nova, talk to me in game if u need more explanation, but thats what i think would be best for this.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 22:34, 9 August 2007 (CEST)
 * U really wanna know how this can deal with relic runners? KILL THEM!!!! Even with a 20 second spike, u can still pwn relic runners.  Also, as to the spirits thing: Fertile Season is great in this build, it gives health and armor to protect from blood spike, ranger spike, and others.  Also, with 900 damage on a spike, nobody without vital blessing can survive a spike with fertile season up (not even a ghostly hero).  Personally, I dont see why symbiosis is there because it does help your enemy more than your team.  And as for DW, not really needed unless the other team has a uber beast infuser who can save somebody in the .5 seconds between initial and follow-up spikes. || Ressmonkey 14:18, 10 August 2007 (CEST)
 * As well as any lag which the players might have. And Dual Shot being 2 second cast is extremely risky - with Cry of Frustration, that's every second spike disrupted. Hard resurrects would really hurt you too, a team with 2 hard resurrects will take ages to defeat. Heavy pressure builds like the current hero(human?)way meta can also wreak havok, with a team of squishies. Tycn 14:36, 10 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Such is the purpose of Frozen Soil. || Ressmonkey 15:04, 10 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Which is why balanced teams often carry a PD mesmer, and 2 hard resses. Even things like heroway can take spirits out with minimal effort. Frozen Soil will stay alive for 5 seconds, no more. Though Dust Trap on the oath shot might extend that a bit. And while you're at it, it would probably be a good idea to drop Symbolisis and Natural Stride for a few traps. Gaze of Fury can also be used instead of Rupture. Tycn 15:10, 10 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I am going to change it... Just really lazy atm. And there is the purpose of oath shot, tycn. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 21:20, 11 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Cheese, you don't spam spirits blindly. Use them according to situation. Plus, #1, Fertile's armor really helps rits. #2, Fertile's health is more beneficial than harmful because the spike has enough damage. As for your comment Tycn, #1 the majority of the teams run zergway/heroway/other crap now. #2 leet HA'ers don't even need to (and shouldn't) come here. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 21:23, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

Changed the notes to say 900 life steal instead of 840 because the spike does 43 from NW, 17 from OoV, and 5 from a vamp weapon, making 75 life steal a hit. 75 * 4 spikers = 300, 300 * 3 attacks = 900 total life steal || Ressmonkey 04:41, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

Whoa...my Build still exists on PvX Wiki? * dies of shock * --Hikari 04:29, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Excuse me, your build? And update on my status: Still too lazy to upgrade to ordergonz. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 13:50, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

Adding monks and slightly modifying the spirit spammer, if you don't mind. Tycn 13:53, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I sort of do mind. A bad selection of monks may be excuse for voters to give this build a low vote. I personally suggest leaving monk slots open, but g'ahead... let's see what you had in mind anyways. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 13:57, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

[build name="Nightmare SoD Monk" prof=mo/e prot=12+1+1 divine=10+1 healing=8+1][shield of deflection][reversal of fortune][gift of health] [dismiss condition][spirit bond][holy veil][aegis][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

[build name="Nightmare LoD Monk" prof=mo/me heal=12+1+1 divine=8+1 prot=8+1 inspiration=7][light of deliverance][infuse health][reversal of fortune] [dwayna's kiss][dismiss condition][protective spirit][holy veil][channeling][/build]

That's what I had in mind. I'll leave it you to decide whether they fit into the build or not. Tycn 14:02, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I might use a Divert Hexes monk and a LoD cause hexes are the only other counter to the spike besides blind. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]]   Ressmonkey  (talk)  15:29, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

I just realized something, why are there 4 spikers? 3 spikers does 675 damage, enough to kill any person or a ghostly hero. If you dropped one of the spikers, you could put in that paragon the cheese slaya has been so intent on putting into the build. ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  22:33, 13 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Ummm...so Fertile Season can still be used? :/ –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 00:56, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Well, you don't much need Fertile Season if you have a Defnesive Refrain/Anjelic Bonder Paragon. I would also then drop the ranger for a Phsycic distraction Mesmer and put Frozen Soil on the Paragon or Mesmer.  And make the Orders ad Mesmer your runners. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]]  Ressmonkey   (talk)  01:09, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Everyone, calm down. I will put in the ordergon, in place of the n/rt, and move a few spirits onto the oath spammer. Yes 3 people are enough to kill... but what if one of the spikers are off, or maybe the enemy monk just happened to be casting, say, ZB at that time? Then poof, all of a sudden the spike is ruined. 3 spikers is enough to kill, but it has to be flawless, and people are going to make mistakes.
 * Please note that not all the spirits are to be used in every arena. Fertile Season is nice for preventing deaths in, say, King of the Hill (as, with the bow grip of defense, suddenly your caster spiker armor becomes paraspike armor lol) but don't use it in Priest Annihilation where it would harm you more than it would do you good. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:56, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * If someone wants to do it for me because i am lazy, then my idea was...

[build prof=necro/parag comman=12 soulre=9+1 bloodm=9+1+3][Order of the Vampire][go for the eyes][find their weakness][make haste][brace yourself][fall back][song of concentration][resurrection signet][/build]

[build prof=range/ritua expertise=12+1+1 beastm=8+1 wilder=5+1 restor=9][Oath Shot][Fertile Season][Frozen Soil][Recovery][Life][Recuperation][Whirling Defense][Flesh Of My Flesh][/build]


 * and have Rupture Soul and a defensive stance on Spiker #4. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 19:17, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * meh ive been lazy long enough, i'll do it. btw, not enough room for motivation on para so i stuffed him w command. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 19:23, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Looks good :) --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey   (talk)  19:59, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Yaaayyy! Thanks. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 20:38, 14 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Thar ye go, laddy! took ya a while though. btw the command on the "ordergon" only has to be long enough for 8 seconds of fallback; its somewhere around 8-10 points of command. i think its 10, too lazy to check though.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 05:27, 15 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Shut up, cheese! I was just lazy! Like you! At least I'm not too lazy to click a button ^_^ --  Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:52, 16 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Okay, Cheese. Dropping command does not only drop Fall Back, it also drops Make Haste. Remember that now. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:54, 16 August 2007 (CEST)

One word... Hexes. Zyber 11:38, 15 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Thats why I suggested a Divert Hexes monk as compared to a Shield of Deflection monk. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey   (talk)  14:27, 15 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Oh about the "my build" thing from earlier Nova, I wrote up the original 6 man version of this back on the Old Guild Wiki, it's been changed so much, by you in particular ( good job by the way), that I could hardly call it anywhere near my original build anymore, good luck, I don't HA anymore =P --Hikari 19:32, 15 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh no, sorry, Hikari, I meant that this build was created under a different username. Now I understand you just switched usernames ^_^ -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:50, 16 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Okay everyone. DH/LoD backline sound good? -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:56, 16 August 2007 (CEST)
 * SoD/LoD Imo, Signet of Devotion+Deny Hexes is plenty hex removal, and imo, one of the largest dangers of this build is that 5 of your players ( the spikers ) are casters, with sup runes, with no defensive stances. ( This is why I originally had them with natural stride ). SoD will heavily aid against things like Zergway or Thumpway, where the rank 4 players ( I am one lolol ) all tend to gang up on one person. --Hikari 01:28, 21 August 2007 (CEST)
 * cheese wants moar condition removal though... perhaps lod mo/rt i dunno im nub -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 01:33, 21 August 2007 (CEST)
 * HA nubs FTW!!! --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey   (talk)  02:34, 21 August 2007 (CEST)

Looks pretty good, why not have the R/Rt spirit spammer, or the rupture soul spiker bring bring Restoration for a solid area rez? Would work well for the rupture soul spiker to bring it instead of signet IMHO --Goldenstar 03:35, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Good idea, only problem is that 5% health is very little, and a couple of Searing Flames could take out everyone that you just rezed, even with LoD. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 04:27, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

rate
please? :D -- Nova   --  (contribs) 03:44, 20 August 2007 (CEST)


 * This one's fun. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:38, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * moar cheese. Mo/Rt LoD if possible with Mend Body And Soul, even at 0 restoration iirc. SoD or DH, in SoD's case bring higher levels of hex removal and emanagement -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 04:31, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

Random Suggestion...
Needling Shot and Triple Shot (if you have it) would be dandy I think... @v 18:40, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * ... -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:55, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I concur with nova. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:31, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

lol pwnt -Sardaukar Blackfang 23:00, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Triple shot is PvE only. Needling after a nightmare spike has been done for other arenas, but it is unneeded here and against the premise of the build. SpaceBiscuit 12:50, 30 August 2007 (CEST)

Kudos
Well thought out, well done. Wish i had the chance to test it, but my time is on a tight 3 week fuse - hence can't rate. Congratulations. SpaceBiscuit 12:50, 30 August 2007 (CEST)

In the counters section
Why would strafing be a problem if favorable winds IS down? I would think that strafing would be a problem if FW were NOT down. -Sardaukar Blackfang 19:14, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * "down" can be "killed" or "present" in this case. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:17, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * oh, yes, wording. 'down' = down and out, gone, etc. 'up' = up and running, etc. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 21:36, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Yea, I just got a little confused with the syntax thanks for the clarification =D -Sardaukar Blackfang 22:34, 30 August 2007 (CEST)

Orders
What about a P/N? [build name="Nightmare Ordergon" prof=p/n blood=12 spear=8+1+1 leadership=9+1 command=5+1][Order of the Vampire][go for the eyes][vicious attack][spear of lightning][make haste][anthem of weariness][aggressive refrain][signet of return][/build] Tycn 15:50, 2 September 2007 (CEST)

hmm. yeh i don't really recall why exactly i made a n/p, esp with the nerf to soul reaping. -- Nova   --  (contribs) 18:08, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah i was wrong, this works way better. I was thinking find their weakness was the whole party but it turns out to be only one person so... it sucks even more now. RC > DH in this imo. 2 veils should be enough. just remove the bad stuff first.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 00:41, 7 September 2007 (CEST)
 * heh i made the same mistake :) I thought "ftw" (what a name for a shout) was entire party too. again i have been too lazy to change it. -- Nova  [[Image:Jirouji-Nova.jpg]] --  (contribs) 03:28, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

Polished up
All good. I suck at monk bars so those can be other builds unless someone else writes some up. Vote moar now :) -- Nova   --  (contribs) 22:24, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

somebody please explain why you need 16 channeling? to me, it ruins the point of fertile soil. While you will lose the energy gain for the non-spikers, it seems using minor runes and not a fertile soil would be almost better than using sup. with it?--Chris 13:42, 23 December 2007 (EST)

Rerewrite
How about this version?

[build name=prof=ritua/range channe=12+1+3 wilderness=12][nightmare weapon][dual shot][distracting shot][kindle arrows][natural stride][favorable winds][offering of spirit][resurrection signet][/build] [build name=prof=ritua/range channe=12+1+3 wilderness=12][nightmare weapon][dual shot][distracting shot][kindle arrows][natural stride][frozen soil][offering of spirit][resurrection signet][/build] [build name=prof=ritua/range channe=12+1+3 wilderness=12][nightmare weapon][dual shot][distracting shot][kindle arrows][natural stride][gaze of fury][offering of spirit][flesh of my flesh][/build] [build name=prof=p/any spear=12+1+1 command=9+1 leadership=9+1][vicious attack][harrier's toss][go for the eyes][anthem of guidance][make haste][song of concentration][fall back][signet of return][/build] [build name=prof=n/e blood=12+1+3 soul=6+1 earth=11 death=2][order of the vampire][vampiric gaze][glyph of lesser energy][ward against melee][ward against foes][grasping earth][consume corpse][resurrection signet][/build] [build name=prof=mo/me prot=12+1+1 healing=9+1 divine=8+1 inspiration=5][restore condition][reversal of fortune][gift of health][aura of stability][guardian][spirit bond][holy veil][channeling][/build] [build name=prof=mo/me healing=12+1+1 prot=9+1 divine=8+1 inspiration=5][word of healing][reversal of fortune][aura of stability][shield of absorption][protective spirit][draw conditions][holy veil][channeling][/build] [build name=prof=mo/me healing=12+1+1 divine=11+1 inspiration=6][healer's boon][dwayna's kiss][ethereal light][heal other][heal party][healing seed][cure hex][channeling][/build] Better defense, more versatility, stronger spike, harder to disrupt.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  07:18, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * Kindle + orders doesnt stack. And its debateable if u should have 3 or 4 spikers, but orders + seeking beats kindle any day.  But with the nerf to fertile season, 3 spikers makes much more sence and the ranger becomes next to useless.  If you really wanted to run it this way, drop kindle for ignite (doesnt convert attacks to fire).  Otherwise really good. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]]  Ressmonkey (talk)  08:30, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * Just tested, Ignite doesn't stack with orders either. That's probably because I'm testing with Order of Pain instead of OotV so the bonus damage is sopped up by Nightmare Weapon's -damage, just felt I should mention it. --71.229@home
 * Just tested with OoV: Orders + Ignite stacks, Orders + Kindle doent. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey (talk)  10:02, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * Needs more heals on the rt/r's. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  11:47, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * Not really. Heals are usually for monks (or healers) only in HA.  Sometimes secondary healers (like the ranger in this build), but rarely self heals. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]]  Ressmonkey (talk)  11:51, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * No, the more healing in HA you have the longer you hold. Needs healing instead of natural +kindle on the rt's. Otherwise you have only 1 attribute anyway. Something like this - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  05:22, 2 January 2008 (EST)

[build name=prof=ritua/range channe=12+1+3 restora=12+1][nightmare weapon][dual shot][distracting shot][mend body and soul][bloodsong][favorable winds][offering of spirit][resurrection signet][/build] [build name=prof=ritua/range channe=12+1+3 restorata=11+1 wilder=6][nightmare weapon][dual shot][distracting shot][mend body and soul][spirit light][frozen soil][offering of spirit][resurrection signet][/build] [build name=prof=ritua/range channe=12+1+3 restora=12][nightmare weapon][dual shot][distracting shot][destruction][mend body and soul][gaze of fury][offering of spirit][death pact signet][/build] [build name=prof=p/any spear=12+1+1 command=9+1 leadership=9+1][vicious attack][harrier's toss][go for the eyes][anthem of guidance][make haste][song of concentration][fall back][signet of return][/build] [build name=prof=me/e domination=12+1+1 fastcast=11+1 inspiration=6][glyph of energy][gale][diversion][cry of frustration][inspired enchantment][blackout][optional][resurrection signet] [build name=prof=n/e blood=12+1+3 soul=6+1 earth=11 death=2][order of the vampire][vampiric gaze][glyph of lesser energy][ward against melee][ward against foes][grasping earth][ward against elements][resurrection signet][/build] [build name=prof=mo/me protection=12+1+1 divine=11+1 inspiration=5][spell breaker][reversal of fortune][aura of stability][shield of absorption][spirit bond][guardian][holy veil][channeling][/build] [build name=prof=mo/me healing=12+1+1 divine=11+1 inspiration=6][healer's boon][dwayna's kiss][orison of healing][infuse health][heal party][healing seed][holy veil][channeling][/build]

Replacements: healing on rt's, elements on warder(anti-IV), dropped monk for gale spammer. Changed monk bars. - Unexist  05:44, 2 January 2008 (EST)


 * Unexist's build gave me an idea; it's too different to incorporate into this article though.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  22:25, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Stop trying to replace Sight beyond sight and Seeking Arrows, those are two crucial skills while spiking to avoid the counters of blind or blocking, which would be really painful to have to deal with. Two monks should be enough. But if more support is really needed, you could drop the Oath Shot spirit spammer for a supporter Rit or something. Driggy 23:00, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

okay guys
I am revamping this build. I'd rather not have gfte on paragon; this is because both gfte and Anthem of Guidance are adrenal skills and are a mess to coordinate. Also, GFTE does not help the nightmare spikers. I am considering sundering weapon on a support character with chest thumper. Yes, it's lame, but I don't see another option.

I was thinking of throwing in Sundering Weapon on the Mesmer. An option would be to go PD instead of galespam, though galespam is really powerful. A further possibility would be to use n/rt healers for extreme lameness - this is a better use of spirit batteries, provides more spirits and fares better against shitways. IV could also be incorporated onto the n/rts for additional spike power. If n/rts are used, an Expel Rit might be necessary - I doubt the effectiveness of an HEV mesmer as the only hex removal.

Oh well. Opinions? 99.235.230.36 11:33, 28 June 2008 (EDT)


 * GftE, Brace Yourselves, and Fall Back are all pretty bad in this team... although Fall Back is, like, the only party-wide speed boost you can bring (but then, if the rangers need a speed boost that bad, spec in one of the ranger speed boosts - none of them are as good as nat stride, but they'll do if needed). I'm also wondering why Distracting instead of Savage.
 * Oath spirit spammer... meh. Could be doing so much more with a N/Rt.
 * Not seeing why IV should be brought, as the spike is pretty huge as it is. Hell, you could even drop the ordergon for something else - all he brings are Orders, Vicious, SoC, and MH. MH and SoC can go on a lolsecondary, Vicious is... essentially unnecessary, and Orders is still kinda optional. (Even so, you could throw it on a N/P or some such if you really needed it.)
 * Don't tell people to trade out sigs for hard reses on the spikers, because then they'll be running 3x FoMF, 2x DPS, and 1x Sig Return with no sigs.
 * -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 11:46, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Brace allows you to free a slot on the monks, but that's about it. I agree on the para bar being somewhat off though.
 * D-shot pwns Savage since you're not doing "damage" anyways (only life stealing). Has less cost and leet +20 recharge if you hit a skill.
 * With a N/Rt you lose Frozen Soil (unless you respecc into some wild on one of the spikers) which is kinda basic for a spike team. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 13:11, 28 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Sorry for the confusion, I was basing my thoughts on Unexist's idea up there. Nightmare spike is very fickle - it's a caster spike with a long recharge (10 seconds) and although it is very powerful, it is also very fragile. If you have Frozen Soil, it will be hard to prevent anyone on your team from dying and then it will be hard to rez. If you don't, well, it's going to take a while to kill everyone and you might not hold out that long. Then again, if your spikes are clean, the energy shouldn't be a problem for N/Rts. Frozen soil really has to be used tactically in this build - not just kept up 24/7. Brace yourself is to replace Aura of Stability, though AoS will probably still be in the monk bars anyway - I have no idea why it's there in that case. 99.235.230.36 18:01, 28 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Bump. 99.235.230.36 22:55, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You never use FS 24/7... Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 06:32, 29 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Brace is bad. Just bring Aura Stab. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 17:35, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

archive
no one uses this. Brandnew. 04:08, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Second. Zyke 04:12, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
 * third. Riff 02:00, 15 November 2008 (EST)
 * Fourth.-- Ikimono Gaston was a Paragon... [[Image:Paragon-icon-small.png]] 02:08, 15 November 2008 (EST)
 * More than enough time to oppose. I'm archiving now. Drag  nmn   talk cont  08:51, 8 December 2008 (EST)
 * Why was this archived? Noone ever ran it, and in the very few times it has been tried its looked nothing like this. Needs delete. Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:48, 8 December 2008 (EST)
 * It still used to be a good build, doesn't policy say archive then? Drag  nmn   talk cont  10:06, 8 December 2008 (EST)
 * It was bad and I don't know how it was voted good. I'd support delete if the need ever came up. 99.236.18.156 17:58, 9 February 2009 (EST)