Build talk:Team - 1 Hero Whirling Defense Warden Farmer

Knockdown Problem
Hai, tested this and it works well ! It's cool to farm Wardens in the Cathedral, the other spot outside Arborstone is probably the best one for short farming sessions, and considering it's somewhat impossible to farm them solo the EoE bomb is great and always fun.

However I've found that the reliability of this build really suffers from the potential Warden's KD interrupting SF during IAU's downtime. This happened quite often to me (maybe I'm just bad ^_^).

Is there some kind of timing with SF and IAU that can always prevent this? Maybe another skill option could work. I quickly tried some shenanigans with Serpent's Quickness and some more bonds for 100% IAU uptime, it wasn't that great. Feydslynox (talk) 17:08, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Tried dwarven stability with alcohol? --Krschkr (talk) 17:15, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Alternative would be "Don't Trip!", which I've used in the past successfully on a 55 farmer to counter groups with KD's in the downtime on IAU. - Chieftain Alex (talk) 18:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Fwiw I've tested the build in the Northern Arborstone area, and it works even at 14 Expertise (OgcTcZ88ZiHRn5AC35uU4gmEVEA; 12+1+1 Expertise, I lack the headpiece) with a monk hero (OwIU8WoYZsFQ3hxTeAAAA45A: 11+2+1 Prot, 12 Beast Mastery, 6 Wilderness). With both anti-knockdown skills you've always got at least one layer of protection. Only time you'll die will be when the hero grabs aggro if you flag badly. - Chieftain Alex (talk) 19:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, could probably just merge it into Build:R/A Whirling Defense Farmer (I'd keep the City farmer separate since QZ actually requires skilled micro, Wardens are way easier than that one). - Chieftain Alex (talk) 19:16, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

More Testing
Ok, "Don't Trip!" is an excellent idea, and it works (Dwarven Stability with alcohol also works, but I'm not a fan of using alcohol for farming). After playing a bit with this one, tbh the hero taking drops is really problematic.

So I've searched for an eventual solution : flagging the hero away after the balling phase. It's possible, and it would allow for maximum drops while surviving without bonds. The best spot for it is the courtyard directly outside Altrumm Ruins, since you can easily flag from a very long range in an open area. I think (in my opinion) that with this farm being somewhat on the slow side (with the need for careful balling) the flagging method outside Altrumm is where we have the best ratio time/drops/reliability/number of mobs killed, this being the most important thing when considering farming builds.

Farming the whole cathedral is fun, but excessively slow, and with drop sharing I'm not sure it should be mentioned at all except as a footnote. Considering drop sharing the original spot outside Arborstone also isn't that great since you can't reliably flag your hero outide compass range there. I was wrong in my inital enthusiasm.

Using ChieftainAlex's build and the bonder on the main page, it goes like this :

Enter Arborstone from Altrumm, flag your hero behind the right door, bond yourself, aggro the 2 groups in the middle, wait for the third group to join you, Death's Charge on one of the two spirits high up on your left (to the right of the bridge) then move a little bit to your right directly above the cliff. Wait for the Warriors to climb, then move 3/4 steps to your left so that the Ritualist wardens ball themselves on the little hill in front of you. They must be perfectly balled (on top of themselves) for this to work. Death's Charge on a Ritualist Warden and with the Warriors forming a big ball on top of the Ritualists, flag your hero just outside the aggro bubble, drop EoE and Winnowing, flag your hero far away on the steps of the Altrumm Portal. Cast Whirling Defense, pick up your drops. This should not take more than ~2m. This short farming session is in my opinion the best option for Warden farming.

''Edit after some more testing: Feigned Neutrality is a viable option instead of Dwarven Stability, for a 100% success rate wait for the two ranger groups patrolling the bridge to attack you. When aggroing the first groups, get the Kurzick Priest out of your compass range. Aggroing the group inside the right hallway does not seem to be worth it as it really slows the run. '' Feydslynox (talk) 15:18, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, attacking the group in the hallway to the right (pulling them to the three groups already balled on the ledge) is definitely the way to go. With this fourth group on top of the three other ones, it fuels Whirling Defense enough for it to reliably outheal the Ritualists and kill everything without the need for either Dwarven Stability (replaced by a defensive skill to increase survivability without bonds) or the second Ranger patrol. This means after the initial balling of those foes, you can directly start the flag/killing sequence with your hero, resulting in 20+ kills in ~2 minutes, with no drop sharing. The Wardens have a quite good loot table, and this looks like an optimal way to farm them. I also tried some other potential farming spots (outside Tanglewood Copse, for exemple), to no avail. As of now I support rewriting parts of this page around this new method, since it seems to be the most efficient one. Just my 2 cents, might be wrong on this though. Feydslynox (talk) 21:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * It has been a while since I've made this and played with it a bit. Like you said, I did the cathedral just for fun and yes I also agree that the first pulls are more geared towards a farm especially if you are able to flag the hero out of range.  The build I used was more towards clearing the whole thing.  Not really optimized for just the first part.  I also read the method above.  So the only difference is that you DC up to the right of the bridge instead of walking up the hill?  Are you pulling the group to the far right?Mozo (talk) 21:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Yep, DC on one of the two spirits is basically the only difference. You grab the aggro of the three initial groups, you DC up the hill, then you wait for the 3 groups to climb the hill by themselves to form a perfect ball (move a lil' bit to your right). I prefer this way, I think it's quicker. The group on the far right is pulled after (with 4 groups total), and the spike is done where you have a perfect line of sight towards the far away stairs of Altrumm, allowing easy 1-click flag after dropping your spirits. It will usually be just on top of the hill. This area is also great because there is absolutely zero risk for your hero to step on a trap. That's it... (and I like your videos btw :P). Feydslynox (talk) 16:54, 28 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks :). I just tried it.  Do you walk back down the hill to get the aggro of the 4th group then back up the hill and then down again to get the rits into a perfect ball?  Also, are you leaving the rangers at the top of the hill?  If so, I do not think DC'ing up will save any time.  but while  Whirling, flagging the hero out of range is a good idea.Mozo (talk) 20:48, 30 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Ah, just tested with a timer and yes, DC'ing up the hill does not save any time, it's a bit useless. Damn, I felt like a ninja doing this, hah :/
 * Timewise, I also don't think it's worth it to integrate the little ranger patrol at the top into your big ball after aggroing the hallway group. They're useful for fueling Whirling though.
 * I've used this ( OgcSc5PToi0k8I6MHQpZ4OCH ) with success... could it be the new mainbar?
 * Mmmh, and do you think we can now safely rewrite the article with making this one the clear "main farm", while still keeping your Cathedral clearing notes and vid as a separated optional route? Feydslynox (talk) 09:02, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. I agree that we can make it the "main farm".  However, we should keep the other two options in there as variants.  Also, why feigned neutrality?  Would Shadow Sanctuary be better?  It lasts a little bit longer, and wont go away if you accidentally attack or use another skill.  Its just used to survive without bonds for a little bit right?  Also, I think we can still reference the Cathedral video.  Just note to flag the hero out of range before whirling. Mozo (talk) 21:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Rewrite
Here it is, yay !! I kept most of your comments, rearranging here and here and saving everything as variants. Feydslynox (talk) 08:51, 7 June 2020 (UTC)