Build talk:Me/any Fevered Dreams


 * Reduce earth magic to make blind last shorter, and put a few into fire, bringing Immolate for burning. Also this needs to be move into single builds now. Rikk Panda 23:21, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * added in some varients...couldn't really think of any without changing ele second prof or swapping out PvE skills Consitini  23:31, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinking this build might have some trouble with energy management. How often do you have to stop completely and when? I mean theres no more soul reaping anymore.
 * drop drain delusions (and spec), in the optionals and you're probably okay. - Athrun Feya - 00:43, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

At the very least it could be an alternative to the player build for discord. With all the hexes, you'd only really need conditions. It just needs to be adapted to some more classes (at least necro and ele should work).
 * had this exact bar sat in my sandbox for god knows how long, along with the ap sin spammer this is about the only truely viable bar for a mes that has a solid impact for vanqs/mish, and no vor doesnt count..reactive hex are soo 4 years ago..gogo power creep, shut down of melee is solid and the daze bursts are a bitch for casters with the bonus of some secondary damage from frag. Tho i will say that it IS a primarily a defensive build and not focused on damage, but on shutdown. which it does well. Cop can be dropped for Summon ruby djinn as that does actually target well almost all of the time! Tho often in longer battles you will be low on energy if you dont take drain delusions ect. with all the 10e shouts and spells.. This also works well for an E/me as you dont need a really high spec in illusion, and works for n/me but you need to take weakness instead of blind! :D &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 02:49, January 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * It says short lasting conditions but with 8 curses the damage per second on this is TERRIBLE. Lower curses to get the minimum duration on the conditions. Otherwise, the damage is so bad that you might as well run ANY other mesmer build (Me/E Flare for all I care) and, despite the conditions, the damage on Flaremes would be greater. Edit: Also Drain Delusions at 6 inspiration is a terrible way to manage energy because you only net +1 energy with 3/4 second casting delay afterwards.... Edit #2: And wouldn't it make since to add "YMLAD!" and Summon Ruby (for burning) while lowering Illusion so that it hits 11 and daze lasts 2 seconds while still having a 21 second duration?Rikk Panda 22:55, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * i run 12 illu, 10 insp, 8 earth, rest fc, that covers bp's for 3sec daze, 4x4 return from drain delusions and overlapping blind, the slight hit frag takes isnt a big deal as its mainly a shutdown bar and the dps is 2ndry. Optional is cop or summon ruby. Usually with frontline pummeling the hard targets to proc daze and prevent casts.
 * &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:15, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * you can fix it up, if you like. i'm feeling lazy. - Athrun Feya - 06:44, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * WHY is CoP not mainbarred? It pwns faces! Tyrael [[Image:Life Sheath.jpg|19px]]  Meow  15:40, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the Elite and the concept but i really dont think its fast enough or even enough damage for PvE.Mercon 03:26, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its a shutdown bar, the damage is secondary to neutering all phys and playing bloody havok with the casters. &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 06:58, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * This build needs Glyph of Immolation + Steam.83.160.160.130 15:06, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I might know know why I can't rate this, but this build makes pugging much more safe. I think that says a lot. Fragility should be used as a cover hex and You Are All Weaklings or Kitah's Burden could be optional. Cuilan 00:39, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * More suggestions. Spear with a daze mod? Technobabble for more or complete daze uptime? The Me/N version does not have access to blind, which is better than weakness. Perhaps a N/Me variant for more skill slots? Cuilan 03:17, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds decent, feel free to add stuff to the main page yourself - someone will always revert if they don't agree. - Athrun Feya - 03:18, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Copying???
Hey! This is just like My build I made a month ago!!! http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Condition_Spreader

You're Going to have to explain Yourself.
 * PvX:OWN. Also, the ranger bar in that build was unnecessary and rather poor. Whatever heroes/henchman/players you take can provide conditions that the mesmer doesn't, without gimping their bars. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 01:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been using a Fevered Dreams build like this one for over a month, so it's nothing new. For some reason it just never hit PvX. Cuilan 01:26, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * People kept submitting bad versions that no one ever cleaned up really. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 01:27, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * been around since the start of gwen in this version nothing new at all., with a small spell of extend conditions. Hell its been on my sandbox since i signed up months ago...and it wasnt new then :P "OWN'd?" Ontopic.. Much better layout and optionals now..win win &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 01:58, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

this might sound random but...
I'd take auspicious incantation+arcane echo with this build so you can spam the hell out of fragility - so things in a group get hit multiple times from new conditions. - Athrun Feya - 11:59, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * care to elaborate? im a little lost on that comment :P Frag is AOE already, and reapplying frag to someone who already has frag on them with a condition does nothing to cause another proc. Unless im missing your your point? ty *edit..hypocondria used to let you cast on the dream target and reapply, but that doesnt seem to work the same now..and doesnt transfer the conditions via dreams.&gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 16:04, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops ignore me. I was reading it as if it hexed 1 single foe, then all foes in range just take damage when that 1 single foe gets a new condition. Concise description says otherwise. - Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 18:19, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * gah, that sounds pretty epic! IF it worked that way! a conditions version of mop! the shames of it &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 23:42, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I actually can't figure out how you managed to interpret it that way, but misunderstanding skills is common, so.. -- Chaos  -- 09:38, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Massive condition removal
Where and what skills or foes? Cuilan 22:28, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * i guess Am Fah healers (martyr/draw) or anything else that runs martyr/court sig...so not a lot i can think of atm. and nothing overly dangerous. late and lazy tho. but i think its just the principle of watch for cond removal? meh.&gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 00:37, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Auspicious mainbar
Blows compared to drain delusions used on frag...AI need expensive spells and nothin over 10 energy here? waste of time..no good reason for it..unless someone cares to explain with a decent reason?? &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 03:10, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right, I forgot that DD is actually 24e rather than 8 (like the description says). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">03:39, 31 March 2010
 * One of the few that slipped through the DB updates. I've fixed it in the editcopy, but have no idea when TOR will get around to it. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 06:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it just the one skill? If so, let's just wait until the next skill update (hopefully the second week in April) and I'll email him. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:36, 31 March 2010
 * I wouldn't dare use AI on this particular bar. Don't use it on FD or Ruby Djinn especially. Cuilan 02:34, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppressive Gaze and Asura Summons
When running Oppressive Gaze, I think it'd be nice to include the Naga Shaman summon, as it synergizes well with the AoE weakness effect. Besides, the summons are terrible at targeting, which makes the Shaman preferable. The Djinn won't hit your Fevered Dreams targets that often, somewhat hurting its usefulness. On the other hand, a Shaman could hit any foe, and, seeing as everything is weakened, be able to knock them down every 5 seconds. Imo, it's just easier to bring the Naga Shaman and have a guaranteed source of constant KD. Also, if you have YMLaD mainbarred, why bring Barbed Signet along with Oppressive Gaze? It's already really easy to meet the precondition for Oppressive Gaze, and Barbed Signet just seems like a waste of time, having to precast it all the time. Bleeding isn't really a great condition compared to many others, considering you can bring other, more useful conditions such as blind or daze. String Bean 17:28, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bleeding synergises with Signet of Infection for its Desease condition, for which its reapplying effect synergises with Fragility. All optionals area posted as Examples of many possible skill combinations. --Falconeye 22:20, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * redundant dw & ca skills due to fh main bar. The bar is very tight on space to start with giving ppl crap skill that make the bar worse is bad :(. stoning is just lol too expensive. <font color="ForestGreen">Jayson <font color="Black">MaxxFury 01:45, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Energy
What are you all using? Cuilan 03:18, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering drain delusions was updated to now give a shitton of energy back, i'd probably just go with GoLE cuz it's easy. Actually, scratch that not enough spells. I might actually suggest this if you can place it properly. However, that would only work if you had the 10 energy to spare. Meh, what do i know. Life   Guardian  03:23, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, nvm again, just go with GoLE. Life   Guardian  03:32, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Arcane Conundrum is nice. I like to use it +GoLE for emanagement, and it is basically free damage mitigation. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">03:50, 26 July 2010  (UTC)

Clean Up
I'd like to clean up this page a little. Can we toss YMLaD and Finish Him in the optional section and then group all the optional skills according to their profession. And lets also get rid of any skills that are not good for this build/never used. <font color="SkyBlue">Saxon <font color="gray" size="1">20:59, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Finish Him at least should be mainbar. Deep Wound and Cracked Armor on everything (in one skill, no less), is too good to pass up here. <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGreen">Toraen -<font face="Courier New" color="DarkRed">Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 21:08, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Sweet, this looks a ton better. "Finish Him!" is excellent for the build, my only beef is that you have to wait till the target is below 50% hp. I preferred spec'ing into another attribute and just replacing it with two skills that don't have that downfall. I just added a few variants for "Finish Him!" so that should work. <font color="SkyBlue">Saxon <font color="gray" size="1">22:08, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You assume it takes more than 10seconds to get something under 50% hp in PvE after you've called it. &mdash;  Scythe   22:17, 12 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * Not my fault you only play proph NM--GWPirate 22:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't be dumb. Even HM isn't so hard that you can't drop one foe below 50% quickly. <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGreen">Toraen -<font face="Courier New" color="DarkRed">Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 22:47, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ &mdash; Scythe   23:11, 12 Dec 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone ever use the rit options? If not, maybe they should be deleted. They seem sub par imo. <font color="SkyBlue">Saxon <font color="gray" size="1">04:00, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * AoE burning (shitterflames)/blind (lolmelee) is nice to have. &mdash; Scythe   1:03, 14 Dec 2010 (UTC)


 * Certainly I've never seen anyone use the Rit options - GfB has a poor uptime ratio for Blind and there's no good Weakness option to cover the downtime with. Burning isn't a particularly useful condition either. If the blind from Ash Blast isn't viable then you should just run Me/N and take Enfeeble really - GoI+Steam is pretty slow. I would also out YMLAD as core (the build becomes much weaker once you lose the Norn shouts) and have the energy management options as optional/variations (some of the listed variants include their own energy management and taking more than two is wasteful). The N/Me version should also be included somewhere since it's (at the very least) quite competitive. Xenomortis 02:01, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

They's vote
Doesn't seem to understand what the build is for. Cuilan 17:08, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Condition spreading is bad, and that's all this does. The damage is mediocre. Panic and PI both shutdown much better than this. --<font color=6C87A3>jī·gō·dǔ -  22:18, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Panic hardly shuts anything down most of the time. Cuilan 22:23, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Then you're using Panic the wrong way. --<font color=6C87A3>jī·gō·dǔ -  22:26, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Then please do explain how to use such a simple skill before I vote on Panic again. Cuilan 22:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You pull/ball multiple groups when possible, taking advantage of the fact that Panic works better against a greater number of foes and eliminates the increased danger of pulling multiple groups. In areas where this is not possible/feasible, you appropriately do not run Panic (hence you'd be justified in saying that it is not a 5 uni build). -- Toraen   confer  22:47, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wrong Toraen. You pick an enemy that could feasibly use a skill once every 5 seconds and hope that there are a couple enemies around him. And ignore melee foes, they don't do shit anyways-- Relyk 22:52, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Strawman arguments are mean and you should feel bad for using one. Anyway, this build: I think FD has a niche, but it's usually outclassed. You'll get probably 4-5 aoe interrupts from daze application at most (depending on your team) with double cast times to spread out what gets through, and a little under 200 AoE damage (factoring in DW - it'll be the full 100 in HM) with another 160 on your target. Slotting damage like Wandering Eye would help that somewhat, but it still seems to be a less than stellar hybrid of the effects of separate domination and illusion mesmers to me. It's best at prepping the entire mob for Discord (everything has deep wound and a hex), but that isn't an amazing feature when Discord isn't the best team to run. -- Toraen   confer  23:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Me? I was being sarcastic. Wandering Eye should be mainbar.-- Relyk 23:35, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I knew you were using a strawman against Cuilan and not me. Still so mean! -- Toraen   confer  23:40, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Call it an elaboration. That "Panic hardly shuts down anything" is a common argument for small party areas where many people find Panic to be, in fact, not useful. I'm not sure if cuilan was implying this or the build in general. If Cuilan is going to make an overgeneralization, then I can make a strawman!-- Relyk 00:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * My experience is this: the number of enemies in a group for Panic to reliably outperform FD for overall shutdown is only reached in one location in the game: the Domain of Anguish. It could also occur in the Deep, but it depends greatly on how you approach it. At all other scales, I have found FD to be greatly superior. You do not need such extended shutdown in most of the game; the first skill cycle is often enough to put you far ahead and if it isn't, it's usually because you missed something, or a single round of Dazed from a second FD application will do. - Xenomortis 00:30, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Jai's rating
remove it or reinstate Cuilan's rating on Panic. jai thinks you use fd for damage... See xenomortis' vote for why jai is wrong. funny bc he says it's decent then 1-1. rage voting is stupid.  PermaSwag    23:13, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You know, going right to demanding that admins remove someone's vote doesn't work. If you can't actually counter their reasoning, why should we listen to you over them? Xenomortis bases his vote on the damage and shutdown the build provides, but Jai says that this is inferior to Panic and PI in both departments. Both are valid reasonings in support of their rating, and you'd (general you, not specific you) best prove that Jai underestimates or that Xenomortis overestimates the capabilities of this build relative to others to get them to change their vote. Otherwise it's just their words against each other. Notice that I did not say "to get their vote removed" there. You should be targeting your debate with each other, not trying to appeal to admins for every disagreement about votes. -- Toraen   confer  23:20, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, if you believe Frosty's removals were unjustified, take those up with him. We generally do not reverse each others' decisions out of respect and to keep wheel wars from happening. -- Toraen   confer  23:25, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Jai's edit part isn't really correct. You can abuse the reapplication yourself by cycling 0 spec weaken armor and enfeeble. You only need to apply a new condition every 3-5 seconds anyways because enemies don't spam constantly and Dazed increases cast time, along with Arcane conundrum if necessary. You could also do something more gimmicky like 0 spec apply poison, spirit burn, mark of rodgort, or immolate. The reason I have FD in SFway is for the exact reason that SF never reapplies burning and heroes only apply conditions after they end. The fact that it doesn't trigger on reapplication is a flawed argument since you as player guarantee that doesn't happen.-- Relyk 23:49, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * A lot of condition inflicting skills have recharges on similar scales as the condition duration; Enfeebling Blood, Fetid Ground, Ash Blast and Rip Enchantment come to mind. YMLAD has a 5 second overlap on its cripple, Enfeeble is something of an outlier and if you haven't won the fight when Finish Him lands then you're doing it wrong, or you didn't cover the whole group and you have a clean FD target for the next cycle. Compared with Panic, this build front-loads a lot more disruption than Panic does and between the degen, CoP, fragility triggers and huge AoE Deep Wound, does a respectable amount of damage; not anything compared to any AP build, but more than most would lend credit. - Xenomortis 00:04, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Jai's vote is bad, just thought I'd mention that. I don't really like this build either, only thing this provides over epidemic is the AoE daze and panic covers that base + dishes out heavy damage while shutting down casters. 00:52, 29 May 2012 (UTC)