Archive talk:Team - Luxon Scout The Coast HFFF

Author's comments
I would be extremely happy if anyone were to figure out how to reduce the run time to below 2:00. I have heard various people claim it, but haven't seen proof. The flags and times on this page are an average of what I can now do after having practiced flagging for about three days of off-and-on testing. You might not get it to work the first time you try it, but you can look at the attached video to see a nearly optimal run. (Most of my runs aren't this clean.) Esan 13:41, 26 January 2008 (EST)


 * Here is a video of a slightly different run that finished in less than 2:00. I was just a bit off on the southwest hero flag. You can shave off about 0:05 from it. Esan 13:42, 7 February 2008 (EST)


 * More recent news, someone has PMed me in guru with a screenshot that finishes in 1:30 with humans playing teleporting sins. I am trying to arrange a run so I can fraps it. If true, this present build should be WELLed. Esan 04:31, 11 February 2008 (EST)


 * The (theoretical) lower bound of the time is 98 seconds with the given flag positions. I measured the distances in pixel between the flags and computed the runtime with optimal 33%/50% speed stances. The longest run takes a minimum of 98s from the start to his final flag (pos 9). I used these method: use maximal zoom on the map, make screenshot. Mark the flag positions with a painting program and compute the distances. The base velocity at maximum zoom level is 10 pixel per second (p/s). For 33% speed increase it is 13.3p/s and for 50% speed increase it is 15p/s. The longest way through p2, p4, p6, p9 is 1357 pixel. 40% of the time the speed is 15p/s and 60% of the time it is 13.3p/s, so it takes 98 seconds. In fact it is a bit longer because I computed the linear distance but the heros cannot run in a straight line. A few seconds can be shaved off if you don't run back into the gate but use /resign. The first time you have to type it in, but for the next runs you can type enter+up+enter. To make this efficient, when you first enter Qinkai immediately return to Breaker Hollow and walk out again. Now you will spawn immediately in front of the exit after /resign most of the time. Otherwise you also spawn on one of the other spawn points. 84.176.216.202 13:38, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

Discussion
Since bars are extremely simple, I say make it a guide. ~ ĐONT * TALK  14:19, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * I wouldn't the guide section doesn't get enough attention. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  15:54, 31 January 2008 (EST)

What if you use a W/A with charging strike and dash?


 * I guess the two pips energy regeneration wouldn't be enough. ~ ĐONT * TALK  00:49, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * Indeed. See below for the calculation. You need at least 3.75 pips to keep spamming Dash as soon as it recharges. Esan 14:16, 5 March 2008 (EST)

For an extra minute I'd rather Solo The Jade Arena from Breakers Hollow. No chance whatsoever of a toon getting stuck.

the idea is really good. but i don't know, i am not big into fff and hfff. and with that "background" i have really big problems to coordinate it. i studied and prepared this build now about 1 hour and tried it, but i have totally no chance to get the rest (not hero 1) to all that places, the coordination is pretty hard, and i don't exactly know the points, nor do i have the capability to count the "chords". is this normal and do i have to practice that a lot of times to coordinate perfectly?
 * I wouldn't bother with the chords until you've already mastered the run. And I'd just run one hero at a time initially, to get the placements and timings down.  Also, if there's a texmod file to help for this HFFF like there is for the Kurzick HFFF, it makes things a -lot- easier.  Try looking here if there is one, or requesting one on that discussion page if there isn't. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas  21:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

Build?
I'd hardly consider this a build. It's 2 skills bar with only 2 skills (that are exactly the same) on each. -- Guild of  Deals  17:41, 31 January 2008 (EST)

so u can flag heroes with the mini map? sweet! i feel kind of noobish for not knowing that...how do u know when the heroes have gotten to the flag you...flagged? 70.112.82.228 21:55, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * You don't =P &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:56, 31 January 2008 (EST)

Any Build with running skills can achieve this. I don't see why it has to be assassin and derv. I would sometimes solo this run with ranger when I would get bored. But this using hero technique never occurred to me. I think I should look into it more. Huynh 21:59, 31 January 2008 (EST)

The point of the build, and hence the skill bars, is to find the shortest run time. Yes it can be done with 4 any/anys. Read the intro where it clearly says this. However, the D/A or A/D is currently the fastest possible way to do it. You think you can do better? Post screenshots or videos. Esan 02:04, 1 February 2008 (EST)

how do u set your hero's skills on your keyboard numbers? Plohek 07:21, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Use the control tab on the options panel (F11). They recently added the ability to activate hero skills from the keyboard. Esan 15:00, 3 February 2008 (EST)

The D/A runner should have 12 Mysticism to conserve energy. And the build should be deleted for obvious(I think) reasons. Dr4goN ( talk /pvxcontribs ) 09:24, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * You don't need to conserve energy with 4 pips regen. Even if you spammed the stances on recharge, it'd take ~2 minutes to burn 40 energy, and the run is 2:15. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas  13:07, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * You're right that there's no need to conserve energy, but in fact the runners never run out of energy. The net cost of two 5e skills spammed every 8 seconds is 10/8*3 = 3.75 pips. To respond to your parent comment, there is no point to increasing Mysticism because Pious Haste and Dash are both stances. To get the highest speed, you have to use Dash every 8 seconds, and 8-3 = 5 seconds is the minimum duration of Pious Haste (which also conveniently recharges every 5 seconds). If you wanted to be kinder to your wrists, you could use Avatar of Balthazar instead of Pious Haste, but you'd still need to use Dash whenever it recharges for the fastest average run time. As to why this build should be deleted, I am afraid the reasons aren't as obvious to me as they are to you. Esan 15:00, 3 February 2008 (EST)

flags
I noticed in the video you first ordered hero1 to the passage near the lake. I tried to order him to directly go too the lake waterfall or whatever and it worked. i dont know if that helps cutting of some seconds. maybe other flag positions make this run even faster? Lukyboy 12:22, 4 February 2008 (EST)


 * To be honest, it doesn't much matter what you do with that hero. It will reach its destination first even without a speed boost. I seem to recall vaguely that flagging that hero directly makes it go straight through the Oni spawns, but the hero will survive even if it were Scorpion Wired and Jagged Struck because of the de-aggroing nature of stance spamming. Esan 17:28, 4 February 2008 (EST)

works well
The build worked very well. Tt took me 2 minutes and 5 sec to complete a run which is very fast in my opinion. 13:12, 4 February 2008 (EST)

questions
wtf is a 'chord'? my first guess would be that it is: the use of both pious haste and dash. can you edit another screenshot showing the paths of each hero, i think that'd be more helpful than the shot currently displayed. and what's the point of having one henchman when you only talk about using heroes 1,2,3 and there will be no agro. In notes section: the heroes wouldn't res you if the only skills they have are dash and pious.
 * A chord is a set of keys pressed (nearly) simultaneously; if you watch the video, it will become clear. For your other questions, I would recommend you to (re)read more carefully, as they are all answered in the text. Esan 10:22, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Nerf
Pious haste now lasts 3 sec with no mysticism, still possible i guess? Plohek 04:34, 24 February 2008 (EST)


 * Nothing changes. The eastern runners are the bottleneck, and both are dervishes. The northwestern and central runners can walk leisurely to their spots. Esan 20:48, 25 February 2008 (EST)

New nerf?
The kurzicks keep spawning on my heroes and the hench, nerfed maybe?

Bad guide?
A. The map makes no sense. B. The description of how to use the map makes now sense. C. Half of my runners get themselves stuck on walls, killed by oni or slaughtered by naga.

Methinks this build needs trashing.Tengu 09:05, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Maybe you need to l2r and/or l2p? Esan 10:29, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * You also make no sense.Tengu 11:25, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

I agree, this makes no sense at all. 196.25.255.218 08:58, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

There needs to be a better map, i.e. showing which point heroes go to from what point and who goes where, none of his 'chord' crap that people who either A. Aren't machines or B. Just visit wiki don't understand.Tengu 11:27, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Esan was saying you should learn to read or learn to play. I suppose the usage could be clarified for people who haven't done HFFF before, but he's just telling you to press multiple keys at once (which isn't really needed, tbh, unless you're an efficiency freak).  The usage is telling you where to move which heroes when. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas  14:16, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I figured out anyway, but my point is that people who drop here for a quick look won't get what the 'chords' term is and aren't freaks bent on being the best, faction-wise, in the game.Tengu 12:53, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

Success Rate
The build does work well, however I fail the run about once in every 4 times even after a considerable practicing. A flag misplaced very slightly can cause a hero to get stuck and not make it to their point. Has anyone else managed to get a better success rate? If not then perhaps it should be mentioned on the page that the 20,000 faction towards title per hour is not achievable. Celt 16:01, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
 * zooming in helps a lot i've found. --Thc 12:35, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

A/D?
Is there any particular reason why one of the runners is an A/D? Wouldn't a D/A be faster, because it can keep its stances up constantly? Ekko (Brother  Starr)  00:11, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * There's only two Dervish heroes (Melonni and Kahmu). --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 01:08, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
 * now there's 3 dervish heroes ^^ Sir</Font> Nothing  [OUCH]  17:35, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

rename?
The other is Archive:Team - Kurzick HFFF so why not rename this to "Build:Team - Luxon HFFF"? Any objections before I do it myself? --War Pig5 19:16, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
 * As long as there isn't any other place that Luxons go to HFFF, feel free. -- Mafaraxas ( talk  &bull;  contribs ) 20:17, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Luxon HFFF TexMod Aid
I just created a TexMod mod that adds red markers to help with flagging heroes, using the map here as a guide (you can find it here). I tested it myself, and it works just fine. Hope you enjoy. ScythXIII 17:27, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * From the runs I've done, it seems that the last henchman marker on the TexMod aid is misplaced, at least in terms of its relative position to the previous henchman marker. The henchman always catches on the wall there. JokerES 14:54, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Jade Arena Hfff
Here is a link to videos and how to for a 2 account solo Hfff run from Jade flats under 2 min. This doubles the faction and money per player. I maintain 600k of faction and have maxed over 850k faction.Azwildbill
 * That's cool, but: 1) requires you to have two accounts. 2) doesn't help you max the title.  --Thc 14:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It won't double your faction, as it is not the same account you are running, but two different ones. Yes, you get progression in both accounts, but not double for one.  So I'm deleting the part about doubling the faction (but yes, it will double your money).  Better off just doing it with someone IMO.  [[Image:Benjammn311Icon.jpg|20px]]  <font face="Calibri" color="teal">Benjammn <font face="Calibri" color="teal">311  21:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Actually, I won't do anything, but you should move your comment to Team_-_Luxon_Recall_Faction_Farm, as that is the run in question. This deals with an entirely different quest, and it is a little bit easier at the expense of time.  [[Image:Benjammn311Icon.jpg|20px]]  <font face="Calibri" color="teal">Benjammn <font face="Calibri" color="teal">311  21:18, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

Yes it can be done as a solo hfff at 1:46 min movie is on the web site with the build. It does help u max you title I started a lvl 1 4 months ago now I'm lvl 11 from doing this run. look at luxon progrees on web site. It doubles faction for your guild and helps bring 2 characters thur luxon title.Azwildbill

Is this a Joke
... the quest itself is trivial there will be no aggro on the heroes and henchmen at all ...   there are choke points full of naga sins, not to talk about the hordes of rot wallows and giants that are a serious problem to a real player not to mention a hero!

lmao. ever heard of ghosting? <Font size=2 color=blue>Sir</Font> Nothing  [OUCH]  17:35, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Monsters don't spawn if the human player does not go within one and a half radar radius of that location. [[Image:BaineImg.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  09:36, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * what the hell are you talking about? the only joke i see here is your post--Thc 12:34, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * just had to fix it so ppl didnt think i asked that. idk why my post went on the same line as his. <Font size=2 color=blue>Sir</Font> Nothing  [OUCH]  14:43, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Does it matter?-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 15:41, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Variant info appears wrong
I just wanted to point out that I'm pretty sure the "marginally faster" variant is wrong. I considered this a long time ago when doing optimization on the Kurzick run and abandoned it. Pious Haste: 0s activation (stance), no aftercast, 5s of runtime (then Dash is used) Using d for distance traveled (this would need to be multiplied by some world distance unit): 5s * 1.33d/s = 6.65d Burning Speed + Frigid Armor: Burning speed 5s duration, .25 activation, .75 aftercast net speed (ignoring activation) since 3/4 of the 5s is standing around: 4.25s * 1.46d/s (R16) = 6.205d So the distance the runner using pious haste travels is further than the distance burning speed travels in the same time without even adding in casting time for burning speed (much less Frigid Armor).