Archive talk:A/E Perma Daggers Farmer

Archive 1

Screens
For the following pics, I died so I could coach a friend on how to do it over vent while I took screens for the site. My char is there as you can see.




 * I lowered the size of the pics because they were far too big. Hope you don't mind. Klump eet 11:29, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks a bunch wasnt sure on how to do that! Tartreg 05:59, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Can someone actually make a vid of this instead? I keep dying, just can't get it right :s :( &mdash; [[Image:DestructiveWasGlaiveInvert.jpg|20px]] eX tinctioN (Talk /Contributions ) 06:17, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Nvm find one myself, tho it uses a different build. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aehf0c-I1CM &mdash; [[Image:DestructiveWasGlaiveInvert.jpg|20px]] eX tinctioN (Talk /Contributions ) 11:54, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

the incoming nerf?
it is said that shadow form will be again at 22 secs.then what we will do?about 70% of the good sin farming builds have shadow form as the main skill.so it is the best pve farming skill for sins.so it MUST be at 32 secs.exept critical agility and some other good skills it is the only good skill. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 77.49.128.165 (contribs).
 * we just go back to maintaining it with arcane echo.--Reason.decrystallized 16:41, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
 * harder, and no slivers, but still effective. and we change the bonder to succor main bar.  and gg.  it will still work fine.  but btw, where did you hear that?  it's not on any of the developer news announcements that i can find.--Reason.decrystallized 16:53, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Idk, I heard some people in TotA saying the same thing today but more in the form of: American Districts: "God I'm happy permaformers will get nerfed, they are ruining our fucking ecto currency." (And then I realized I'm happy I'm a euro, not an american. Come one, discussing ingame currencies?) Brandnew.  17:00, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
 * us americans are getting tired of talking about how much our dollar sucks, so we talk about how much gw currency sucks instead. No 17:11, 1 July 2008 (EDT)


 * I have not seen anything either about this nerf going to happen Messengerofgrim 19:56, 1 July 2008 (EDT)


 * Ouch 50% less damage Messengerofgrim 18:12, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * This should probably be archived. ــмıкε  нaшк  18:13, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * yes it should can't really do any damage anymore. Cheese Eater 18:16, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Is DB's AoE damage reduced? --71.229 18:19, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * My guess is all damage you do is reduced--Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]Star 18:21, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * brb, testing. --71.229 18:22, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Bonus damage is reduced. Archive imo. --71.229 18:25, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I knew it would be nerfed!-- Çâñdëròú§§   ¿  00:38, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

i am the guy who started this .i told u it would happen.now back to degen .drops will be bad with sf commando.but it is unfair.exept of commando and degen how sins can farm now? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 77.49.123.217 (contribs).
 * It still works fine in most of Tombs. Just takes longer. - Ayumbhara [[Image:Ayumsig.jpg]] 20:46, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

unarchive?
only 33% penalty isn't so bad, really.--Reason.decrystallized 22:42, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree, this is pretty close to being as good as it was before. ــмıкε  нaшк  22:54, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * well, it will be slower than before, but fast enough to be profitable ... have to test speed, but i'd probably revote as low great/high good.--Reason.decrystallized 23:00, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * no, dont unarchive, delete, the perma shadow scythe build is better, 420% better, (read notes of it).-- Phail [[Image:Phail Sig Pic.jpg|19px]]  Tock  A guide to this user. 00:48, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * it's a completely different build, dude.--Reason.decrystallized 07:28, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * And Tock, your Math is probably off a little; calculating the damage isn't so cut and dry. ــмıкε  нaшк  14:29, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Ya ... remedial math ftw dude. good luck with it though. Skie M 18:06, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

okay, we un-archive. i'll bother the A/n about vote wiping and we'll put it back in testing.--Reason.decrystallized 06:09, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

TY!!!!
You have given me a reason to play my sin for farming again! And here I was thinking I would have to lvl my ele or maybe even buy some gear for my ranger! Wish I would have had enough common sense to use asuran scan....I feel dumb for not thinking of it...Neways, thanks again.... UNTIL THE NEXT NERF OF SINS!!!!! (as we always get nerfed, playing has gone downhill ever since they first changed black lotus and black spider strike.)--Redhandsgw 20:40, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * yeah, it's like a-net hates us =( --Vgfanatic2 20:35, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Energy Problems
for some reason, i have way more energy problems with this build then i did with the original. I think its because of the lack of critical eye or the fact that im using zealous daggers now. Anyone have any suggestions or do i just have to get used to it? --Vgfanatic2 20:47, 21 August 2008 (EDT) i would try adding loutus strike. i did that and i was aple to keep it up with no problems --shadow assassin 19:12, october 2 2008 (edt) --- it should be easy as long as u havezelous daggers and crit agility, when SF gets to the top left corner of recharge i stop my chain and solo hit, even with low crit attribute the zelous+33% attack speed will get you enough energy to recast

UW Speed Boost
Is there a way to use this build in the UW without using consumables? If I were to drop Critical Agility or Asuran Scan for a run skill like Dash or Dark Escape would I still be able to solo the Chaos Plains? If yes, which skill should I drop and which skill should I bring? - We Heart Katamari  05:10, 23 August 2008 (EDT)


 * So far so good, I guess. I dropped Critical Agility for Dash and I've been doing good in the labyrinth. I haven't been making it to the CP because of non-build related difficulties (lag, Behemoth blocks, etc). I'll keep trying tonight. - We <font color="#620460">Heart <font color="#620460">Katamari [[Image:WeHeartKatamari.jpg|19px]] 06:32, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
 * CHaos Planes is a little slow with this build but certainly doable. Selket Shadowdancer 20:34, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Take Asuran Scan out for Dark Escape or Dash. After all, the mindlblades have hex removal. --67.80.77.91 11:59, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

I had the energy problems as well and tried to do as the OP said and drop Deathly Paradox and up Shadow Arts to 15, with only Glyph of Swiftness and Shadowform + perfect Enchanting mod on my daggers, it still wears off to quick, so all 3 skills are still needed.
 * Essence of Celerity. 87.194.137.198 07:58, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Tomb of Primeval Kings
Do enemies on the other lvls of the tombs drop ectos? or is it only the 1st floor? Elijah1210 20:38, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * They drop them on all levels as far as I know as long as they can be found in UW. Selket Shadowdancer 20:33, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * only banished dream riders and terrorweb dryders drop them. these mobs can be found on all the levels.  however, it is usually faster to repeatedly kill the ones on the first level rather than clearing the whole place (though that has been done, too).-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  16:22, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

fastest
Is this the fastest way to farm ecto's/farm the chaos planes? It doesn't seem to fast to me, but maybe thats just because I'm in hardmode or new to the build. It also takes ages to kill the grasping darknesses. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 12:06, 14 November 2008 (EST)

math problems
Why is it that the math doesn't come out the way it is saying it should, for example it said "reduce the recharge of Shadow Form to 30 seconds, well under its duration."... Not really, 30 seconds is the duration with 15 shadow arts, so please check for updates on that. Also the sf info block is wrong, saying the opposite of the table on the effects page ,with 14 shadow arts SF is active for 19 seconds. THX
 * shadow form was updated, but the skill mouse-over hasn't been. also, duration is calculated as final duration with an enchant+20% mod, so that it's something like 34 seconds altogether (cba to check exactly).-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  17:54, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Something hit me
What if... <Pvxbig> [build name="A/E Perma Daggers Farmer" prof=Me/Mo Illusion=12+1+3 Inspiration=12+3][Signet of Illusions][Spirit of Failure][Ether signet][Succor][Mending@16][Strength of Honor@16][Protective Bond@16][Rebirth@16][/build] </Pvxbig> or was it a train that hit me :P?--√ iktor (contribs) 09:58, 10 December 2008 (EST)
 * Archive:Team - SF/Commando-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  10:04, 10 December 2008 (EST)
 * Right probably should have browsed first--√ iktor (contribs) 10:10, 10 December 2008 (EST)
 * the idea works beautifully by the way. :P-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  10:20, 10 December 2008 (EST)

After the NEW nerf. =(
Shadow arts has to be raised, meaning less dmg and or less crits and less energy from critical hits. This might not be nearly as good anymore.

Archive
SF nerf means that you have very little time to actually be attacking/spamming DB. Archive? <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">19:54, 12 December 2008 
 * possibly, yes. need time to test some first.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  20:40, 12 December 2008 (EST)
 * Energy is a big issue now... you gain only ~4.5 energy per recast, and that's... not much. Your critical strikes can make up for it, but "Fear Me!" will kill you. You'll need a high energy set for every recast, or use a consumable set and lose Deadly Paradox, unless you're extremely familiar with both the area you're farming and the build itself. -- [[Image:Vow of Silence Gah Sig.jpg]] <font color="Green">Gah <font color="Navy">is  <font color="Red">Christmasy   17:26, 17 December 2008 (EST)


 * You might wanna notice that "Fear me" won't be used as long as you're solo, or with other perma sf's. There's no hitting enemies, so no adrenaline gain, and so no "Fear me!"::: 84.85.197.187 13:10, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

The New Nerf To Shadow Form
This rly sucks now its lasts 22 sec with 16 Shadow Arts u can still maintain it but u have to lower other atr. in order to have 16 in shadow the age of uwsc and permas is coming to an end.

Nvm
I was wrong. Shadow Form does work on 14. However, you have less than a second to activate shadow form. What I did was take 1 point out of dag mastery and put in shadow arts so it was 15. It works fine if you are an experienced perma.(Dag 10+3, Crit 10+3, Shadow 11+3+1)--Vgfanatic2 17:45, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Noticed the energy problems since nerf
I have been having trouble since nerf because i generaly only have 5 energy to do damage now

how about adding deldrimor touch skills, bleed-degen, KD-interupt, and cracked armor add 70 damage to each of those and their adrino base instead of energy... GoS-DP-SF-x-x-ear bite- headbutt-low blow, IAS or healing could be used as x skills?

possible addition to the attack chain?
Well I normally use this build to farm ToPK (works beautifully by the way) but I was messing around with it and figured...why not lenthen the attack chain? So I thought about the moebius shiro solo build (the one w/ golden phoenix for the opener.) So I came up with a lengthened attack chain. Now, I never had asuran scan so I don't know how this would hold up against the original, and I apologize if this has been discussed before...

Right so you start out with the normal SF chain, glyph, paradox, SF. Hit crit agility and start autoattacking to build your energy. Now as soon as the attack chain is recharged, DO NOT start it. Just keep autoattacking (for energy management purposes). Then cast the SF chain again. once the 10 second recharge is done, hit you attack chain, go lead-offhand-DB-golden phoenix-DB-lead-offhand-DB. then autoattack after this long chain. then (this part is optional under the wrong conditions, if you're running low on energy then dont bother) hit your glyph again, time it so when you finish casting the glyph, golden phoenix will just be finished recharging. Then as soon as it's recharged, hit golden phoenix one more time, followed by DB, followed by paradox, followed by SF. AGAIN, THIS LAST PART IS OPTIONAL. I RARELY PULL IT OFF WHEN GOING AGAINST GRASPS IN TOPK. however, when all the grasps are dead, It is fairly easy to get it off against the casters. again, if you are experienced, you will know if you have time/energy to get another attack in.

my IGN is Collin Kalashnikov if anyone wants to discuss this. otherwise, please discuss on here.

NOTE: i have tested this post-45sec nerf and it DOES work.

<Pvxbig> [build name="A/E Perma Daggers Farmer" prof=A/E Shadow=12+1+3 dagger=10+3 critical=7+3 air=4 deadly=2+1][Glyph of Swiftness@0][Deadly Paradox@0][Shadow Form][Golden lotus Strike][wild Strike][Death Blossom][golden phoenix strike][ebon battle standard of honor][/build] </Pvxbig>

This is the build i personally use, its a simple 5 hit combo. Just do the combo as follows 1,2,3 (before battle, duh) 4 (to replenish energy),8 (to boost damage of the combo),5,6,7,4(to replenish energy). Rinse and repeat.
 * -A zelous +5 Energy dagger of Enchanting and radiant armor are required. i also have a rune of attunement to make my energy 40 (I like round numbers, easier to do math and what not)
 * -Keep ebon battle standard up to keep you damage high. I dont have asuran scan, and have a tier 5 vanguard title, so that one does more damage for me than asuran scand would anyways. Unfortunately i noticed it doesnt boost the damage of death blossoms.
 * -If time and energy allows, you could continue the combo from the end. I personally w8 until my SF's recharge is about to turn the corner b4 i use Deadly Paradox, this way my combo down time after SF is much less.

Hope it HelpsPhOeNiX559 04:06, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

You could become much more efficient if you take 2 points from shadow arts and put them in crit strikes and dag mastery....crit strikes to 13, dag master to 14. Your build works, but I think it's a little energy heavy, especially without using crit agility ---collin kalashnikov

Usable in PvE ?
I was wondering if this build could be used in PvE to tank. and if you run into energy problems, get someone with BiP Or Blood Ritual to help you manage energy or get some energy gaining skills e.g. brawling headbutt + faling lotus strike. yes i know damage out put will be really low and that this is a farm build but still. thats not the point. i just wanna know if it works for PvE.

no flaming please. all comments and opinions are appreciated. thanks --Lusciious 00:06, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes but its pretty much a waste of time when you have to cast sf often and it wouldnt be conventional, use ms/db spam--<font color=#585858>Relyk <font color=#66CCFF>_||_ <font color=#333300> I hammers u! 00:09, 22 January 2009 (EST)

okays. thanks.

started using this build in PvE. Damage output might not be really high but you make a really good tank. not all tanks can attack as high as this build do since most tanks rely on sliver armor, their damage output is pretty low compared this this if the mobs are scattered. --Lusciious 20:53, 22 January 2009 (EST)

secret lair of the snowman
apparently i need a way to farm deldrimor points and i noticed that this build can farm the secret lair of the snowman. how does it work cause snowmans e.g. freezie have pbaoe skills which can bypass SF. need help please. thanks --Lusciious 20:56, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * You could go in with a STD PVE build and take Triple Necro on HM... It works wonders, I farmed my Deldrimor like this... :)Anwyn 08:26, 2 February 2009 (EST)

STD ?--Lusciious 07:55, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * STD, more commonly known as, [Standard] or could just mean a [sexually transmitted disease]T1Cybernetic 09:04, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * BiP seems to be a problem if your necro has a STD then. Throan Loremaker 07:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

IDS
How do you escape avicara killing you with ignite arrows in HM when farming IDS?--Ice24790 22:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

FoW beach
I m trying to clear the beach in FoW, but i can't break the aggro of the shadow army at the starting location. HELP!!!!!!--74.70.73.106 21:40, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Bring Dash instead of Critical Agility or Asuran Scan. ــѕт.  мıкε  22:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I tried Dash, but it's too short. I seem to loose their aggro (i don't get very far), but as soon as Dash runs out, they come after me again. I tried Dark escape too, but never lost aggro with it. I was thinking maybe I can take a hero with SF as a decoy. While the shadow army is trying to kill my hero i can run past them. What do you think? and according to loot sharing the hero will be (very, very) far away from the beach (out of the radius of my kills), so it won't affect my drop (theoreticly). i haven't tried it yet.--74.70.73.106 02:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just keep running...they wont follow you all the way to the beach. Do it in NM btw.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 02:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtFfcT8n4ps (shadow,beach,cave) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e6vORREEhM (cave, tower, battlefield) template; OwZlkkdpX8xjzI95R6MB4wP6dw4h Bogusdude 21:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)