Build talk:E/any PvP Mind Blast

it is 10 illusion right? (4 sec break point). --F rosty 16:27, 10 December 2008 (EST)

Do people really run this? I know imagined can be useful but distortion just seems like it's not worth it, and fire doesn't seem like it's useful other than on ganks. I mean, why mind blast here, there's nothing that GoLE + attune can't handle. It just seems like there's better options for stand and split play =\--Golden Star 19:28, 10 December 2008 (EST)
 * I guess it means you can practically perma Distortion. --F rosty 19:32, 10 December 2008 (EST)
 * Blind them?--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  19:49, 10 December 2008 (EST)

damn u ska u leeker! --Readem 20:14, 10 December 2008 (EST)
 * readem is slow today--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  20:15, 10 December 2008 (EST)
 * Seems kind of a waste to use 10 illusion for imagined and distortion to me :/ This build just doesn't provide much utility other than the snare and the ability to split, and theres better splitters imo&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 00:18, 11 December 2008 (EST)
 * WoW and pwk :P--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  11:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)
 * More of a TA build tbh. Run commonly as a replacement for R/P in hexways. 83.102.63.166 07:43, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Quite bad. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  10:45, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * ^ if you run this over an R/P in small arena's you are bad. ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG|19px]] 13:46, 17 December 2008 (EST)

everyone on the upper portion of this page, is a complete fucking retard. This pumps way more damage than the R/P in arena's. I ran this with cirq, jatt, and torsen and won nearly every time. loldegen this out on a split? It will fucking kill you on a split. Between this, and a ranger to mtouch any nasty conditions, unless you send back a great deal of damage and healing, everything is going to die. You run a super split heavy build (Defy Pain War, 2 rangers, and 2 ele, 3 Monks), and these eles make stand-play fucking miserable. O, and shitterstone is actually quite terrible on a split in comparison to mindblast. The only reason people run it, is due to the fact euros don't counter split, but merely collapse at every possible chance and need the extra snare. --Readem 12:41, 18 December 2008 (EST)


 * Just wanted to be on this page so I can say Readem has called me a complete fucking retard. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 12:43, 18 December 2008 (EST)
 * When he calls Unexist an retard, he calls the rest of wiki a bunch of numbskulls tbh--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  12:45, 18 December 2008 (EST


 * Nice weak mans split readem. Rawrawr Dinosaur 12:50, 18 December 2008 (EST)


 * I like, random commas.  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 14:03, 18 December 2008 (EST)


 * typing is for shitters, which is why I prefer vent lol. --Readem 18:09, 18 December 2008 (EST)


 * Wait a second, wtf: "Defy Pain War, 2 rangers, and 2 ele, 3 Monks"?--71.139.38.171 23:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * with superior axe and strength runes ofc [[Image:Jebus.JPG|66px]] 22:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Aura of Restoration
instead of Flame Djinn's Haste? Illoyon 19:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

This Build..
..is so f***ing ANNOYING! Three E/Me's and a Mo/W for RA/TA is the new OP'd tactic. Mindless blockspam inhibits any tactful play; E/Me's are near-invincible to all melee. Distortion needs to be 25/90'd BAD! Use this build while it lasts, because Anet becomes aware of it's OP'ness, Distortion (and perhaps any co-related E/Me skills) may get the thick end of the Nerfbat! --BlazingBurdy 14:02, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * lrn2plymelee -- -Ch  ao  s-   14:11, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think you have played or faced this in TA chaos, it's is amazingly dumb [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 14:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I just feel this urge to flame anyone who QQ's even if they're right. -- -Ch  ao  s-   14:22, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

it's strong but I don't think distortion needs to be nerfed to death. --Mel Ve Let 14:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Distortion isn't what's wrong here. What's wrong here is that even with Distortion up this build is pretty much always on max energy. The only exceptions to that are exhaustion and random interrupts that manage to hit you through Distortion before you get the energy from Resto+Attune. - [[Image:Panic_sig7.gif‎]] 14:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * And the fact it's near permanent, which ANet desperatly wants to avoid. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You can only perma distortion because of the endless energy. - [[Image:Panic_sig7.gif‎]] 14:30, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Immolate nerf, Mind Blast nerf, Meteor Nerf (noticed how they were all buffed lately) [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 14:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Distortion: 5e, 5r. For 1..5 seconds you have a 75% chance to block attacks. All your non-mesmer skills are disabled for 10 seconds. Is how we do things round hya, boy! - [[Image:Panic_sig7.gif‎]] 14:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Any skill: w/e e, w/e r. Whenever you use a skill all your non-whatever this skills proffesion is are disabled for 10 seconds. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 14:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Update October 8, 2009. Fixed a bug that allowed people to use skills from their Primary and Secondary professions at the same time. - [[Image:Panic_sig7.gif‎]] 14:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd find a new game. -- -Ch  ao  s-   22:02, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Distortion: 5e, 5r. For 1..5 seconds you have a 75% chance to block attacks. Ends if under the effect of an enchantment. More reasonable :) 75.155.197.157 18:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

easily countered by a good monk and mbane in TA. --<font color="Black">Readem 21:27, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Easily countered by countering their every counter. Sounds as easy as the it is to do the above. Mindblast + 40/40 = perma-block; near-impossible even for PRO MBane rangers with rank 9-10. They'll be too busy counting seconds on ele that they'll forget the monk's there, healing everyone without a care in the world and the ele blasting everything away with Immolate and Rodgort/Meteor. Distortion needs to meet Anet's nerfbat! SWING BATTA BATTA BATTA BATTA SUH-WING BATTAH!!! I'm rooting for 25/90! --BlazingBurdy 23:15, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't need to count seconds to interrupt 1s casts =\--Goldenstar 23:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Mantra of concentration imo--Relyk 00:45, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So, just telling every Ranger that they HAVE to STAPLE Magebane to their bars in order to stand a f'ing chance is in order then? No thanks! Distortion 25/90! --BlazingBurdy 00:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Dude, just switch targets. Leave the person alone until he is last one standing then just have everyone attack him. Even with imba mind blast+fire attunement energy management, he wont last long. --<font color="Black">Drah <font color="DarkRed">McNinja  00:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Switch targets to... another E/Me or the dual stance monk?. ~ [[Image:Tycncookiesig.jpg|19px]] Tycn   [a]   01:03, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought he meant RA... my bad. --<font color="Black">Drah <font color="DarkRed">McNinja  01:09, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

TA is ALWAYS REALLY BAD. skakid9090 01:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL Tycoon! You speak the truth. Distortion is Imba. 25/90 is in Order! --BlazingBurdy 03:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Really; I've been rolling teams of this all day without magebane. If you think its imba, its just because you're bad at beating it, and would 100% chance have as much trouble beating a good hexway (which btw, is still more op :O) Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:54, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I know it's beatable. The issue is it takes too f'ing long to break through teams with these @$$hol3 E/Me's! It's mindless, OP'd blocking with little consequence! Sh*t, this is like 'Escape', but without the 'Elite' status! Mindblast, AoR and Glowing Gaze makes the -2 energy seem like a joke! C'mon guys, ya'll KNOW Distortion on Mindblasters is just too good! ADMIT IT already! --BlazingBurdy 19:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but Distortion isn't the problem - on it's own it devours your energy like nothing else. I mean, where else is it used? It's only that Mind Blast gives you enough energy to use it lots, and Energy Storage means that even if you lose energy overall you have long enough to deal with it. You said it's like Escape but without being elite, but Mind Blast is elite and without Mind Blast, Distortion doesn't work. Yeah, possibly the build as a whole is OP, but Distortion shouldn't be nerfed, it's bad enough as it is in pretty much all situations except this one. 82.3.246.41 19:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The thing is.. that anything that gives energy can supply distortion. Lyssa's Aura, E.Prodigy, E.Prism, or any skill/spell of it's likeness will abuse distortion to no end. Maybe it should be nerfed to dust in PvP only, but spared for PvE. It's OP'd otherwise.. --BlazingBurdy 18:46, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This build isn't as hard to beat as people make it out to be. Don't QQ nerf everything when you can't beat it.  Yes, it's OP because of the buffs to the fire skills and AoR.  Yes distortion is annoying, get over it and sit everyone attacking one ele at a time till he's out of energy from distortion.  In case you've never played MB before, lot harder to get that energy back once it's gone.  Thus you have a useless ele that's waiting on energy regen because MB isn't giving energy back.  I beat this bar 9/10 times I played it, and the people weren't bad at it either.  --Link4all 21:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree - having been destroyed by MoI Assacasters or Lyssa's Assacasters every time I run it, they SO need to be nerfed more. I'm kidding, but my point is just because a build is good vs some classes and builds, it isn't always good vs others.  Bring Wild Blow or Wild Strike or Rigor Mortis if blocking is a problem (in fact, I've seen hammer Warriors hex with it).  People complaining that it's mindless should try Lyssa's Assacaster - so easy the noob in my guild pwns with it (but still needs work on picking good targets). --Falseprophet 18:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well you're wrong, since in GvG people can't just sit on you all game or there will never be any pressure, and if you split they can't exactly sit on you anyway. -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  18:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Equips
Whoever put the 40/40 illusion set is bad. Wanna get a half cast on a... stance? gg <font color="Joan">Joan <font color="Blue">% 
 * Look in variants. 40/40 set for a snare can't hurt (I think it was mainbar at one point too). Toraen 18:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah! okay, makes sense; should be changed though, bit misleading <font color="Joan">Joan <font color="Blue">% [[Image:SpamzGodz.jpg|19px]] 23:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Mantra of Concentration
in ta?--Relyk 11:38, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Distortion is the one after hottest skill in the fucking game. Brandnew.  13:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Combined with Mindblast/AoR/GlowingGaze/etc.. Distortion's a non-elite version of 'Escape' (except no IMS). It's utterly OP'd and melee-numbing with mindless blocking and virtually no penality for it. OP'd! --BlazingBurdy 01:43, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Magebane says hi--Relyk 07:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That or take a 'sin, warrior, or dervish - Expose Defenses, Warrior's Cunning, and Guiding Hands all attack through block. 'sins and Warriors have a lot of attack through block skills, as well - you could use Furious Axe or Enraging Charge followed by Whirling Axe on a Warrior (though most Furious Axe warriors I've seen don't run quick adrenaline building skills for some dumb reason), for instance.  Even a necro with Rigor Mortis could be helpful, but that has issues due to being a hex and having a long recharge (20 seconds). --Falseprophet 19:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So are Shattering Assault sins back in the TA "meta" yet? :P 89.172.51.71 05:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

"40/40 illusion set"
The build mentions a 40/40 illusion set under equipment. That's useless. Distortion is a stance and doesn't benefit from it in any way.
 * Look 2 sections up. Toraen 17:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Moved the set to variants though to avoid confusion. Toraen 17:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Illusion of haste not good for gvg splitting? Exo Oo 17:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * fdh?

Uhm Distortion..
I think distortion is an aweful skill in this build its only for 3 secs... and u lose 2 energy whith it + 5 energy from the skill

then just add glyph of restoration for good healing, interupting might be a problem but distortion wil not help so good against interupt etc.
 * No, you are just terrible and retarded. And learn how to sign please. ~ <- like this 152.226.7.204 08:35, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * True it's only at 3 seconds, but it's super quick recharge makes so much better than everything else. The energy loss is regained by spamming Mind Blast. There's almost nothing you can do against mesmer interrupts (you can cancel cast), but 99% physical interrupts can't hit you. You can make it last 4 seconds by speccing a 8-12-10 spread. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 08:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be 4 seconds tbh. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   10:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be nerfed to all hell tbh. Non-Elite 'Escape..? Any1..? --BlazingBurdy 06:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Probability of this being ulterion = 65%. Not that anyone cares, just for fun.[[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]]<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">uɐɟ <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">ɐʞıd  <font color="#FF0033">o <font color="#000000">^_^ <font color="#FF0033">o  <font color="#996600">¸ <font color="#FFCC00">« <font color="#FFCC00">` 05:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Rodgort's Invocation
its mainbar now...is the usage still right? using rodgort's on recharge sounds energy heavy, when under pressure...because of distortion. should i take it over liquid flame in ra/ta too? Illoyon 21:10, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * you've got millions of gazillions of energy, don't worryClose Impact 21:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * dont take it in RA/TA, since there arent 8 opponents there so less balled up ppl <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:#BEBEBE;background-color:black;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Terran  21:55, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * they still ball up...--Relyk 21:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * they do, but less likely <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:#BEBEBE;background-color:black;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Terran  21:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You bring it in arena and how much you cast it depends on how much melee pressure you get. If they are ignoring you, cast on recharge --<FONT COLOR="#347235">|[[Image:Hipowi_sig.jpg]] Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 03:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You bring rodgort's in GvG/HA, in TA you take LF. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 09:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I really wouldn't use this build. Combining Auspicious incantation with Rodgorts Invocation gives better energy management without having to bring such a low dmg elite skill. User:Traa1703
 * wow [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 16:40, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's so this build can use distortion without worrying about energy whatsoever. If a ranger isn't running Magebane, they will have a hard time interrupting this, and it's immune to physical spikes in general. Toraen   talk  16:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Wastrel's Worry.jpg|1px]]-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 21:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * nm, i need to not try and wiki after just waking up.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 21:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

From Myspace To Your Place [ganK] :> -- 12:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * GanK ran 5 of these (which btw has been ran many times before they did) and they definately didn't invent the build, so quite possibly most useless comment ever? 86.133.147.88 20:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sayin we invented it, but I've never seen anybody use 5 MB eles in GvG before we did :/ -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  21:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * go msn so i can say UR RONG 86.133.147.88 21:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * [yumy] [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 21:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Any1 that would run anything BUT this blockf@g E/Me build (UNINSTALL). Those that think this build is not OP'd (again.. uninstall.. or just run x5 in GvG or x2-3 in RA*synced*/TA). Gg.. --BlazingBurdy 01:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can tear up balanced in some cases, and by far is a better spike team build that team bloodspike. Just did some GvG with these and we sent bloodspike packing within 5 minutes. It's just strong shit, my guess is it'll be the next thing to be nerfed.--[[Image:AngelusEverton.png]] 01:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely, although im not sure what part they would nerf. I guess nerf MB again? Already been nerfed and buffed multiple times.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Distortion: Ends when you cast a non-mesmer skill. (most likely) <font color="Black">Drah <font color="DarkRed">Mc <font color="Black">Ninja  05:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Then people would move to mirage cloak or something.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 05:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Mirage cloak isn't as good as distortion (3x energy, which would become a burden, 50% block, and its an enchantment). <font color="Black">Drah <font color="DarkRed">Mc <font color="Black">Ninja  05:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Revert buffs on immolate and meteor--Relyk 06:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Distortion won't be the one nerfed, you can switch to different blocking easily enough. It's imbaness is quick recharging skills and has infinite energy. My guess is they'll lengthen the recharge on immolate and MB --[[Image:AngelusEverton.png]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Distortion shouldn't be the one nerfed, it's never really used outside this build. They'd be better off actually buffing it (like reducing the energy cost per hit to 1 maybe) but then upping the recharge a bit so it can't be kept up 80% of the time. 81.110.25.23 12:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * People are already running it without Distortion. Distortion is clearly not the problem. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   12:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * it all happened after the buff to aura of restoration, no? <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:#BEBEBE;background-color:black;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Terran  12:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It happened mainly after the buffs to immolate and meteor, but took time to see play, Skakid le leaker. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 12:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And honestly if they was to fix bars like this you would have to really change a lot with the game, there is so much wrong and it has got worse over the last 2 years, the game really is broken and to fix it a major change would be needed (like reworking practically every proffesion). [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 12:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The version without Distortion also doesn't have AoR apparently. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   14:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually it does I am a bad obser D: [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 14:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

It's partly AoR but mainly MB. I think it was buffed not long ago but either way you've been able to use it in very high-energy builds (I even tried an MB Healer in RA which actually worked, a bit) for a long time, it's just taken a while to get off the ground. I guess nobody thought of putting it with Distortion for a while either. 81.110.25.23 14:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * AoR isn't the problem. Although it is nice to distortion and then spam shit for heals while you lolblock. MB really isn't that OP, just this build and the team GvG build turns people over spanks them silly. Slightly longer recharges on MB and Immolate would fix this pretty easily. Until then I'll be raping people in GvG with this.--[[Image:AngelusEverton.png]]
 * Tbh, no one skill on the bar is a big problem, but all in combination is lolimatankpumping60dpsatrange. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   14:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You're definately right. Any other bar is just the old MB bar for energy management again without the OPness. It's not that popular yet really that it will be hit with the nerf bat. I have a feeling a bunch of these on a team will become popular in GvG. They just straight up rip people apart. If it becomes too popular this will be nerfed soon enough which is a shame. --[[Image:AngelusEverton.png]] 15:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Angelus don't be silly, this is like one of the most popular builds in the game atm. Have you played vs MBway in TA its fucking rediculous. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 15:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * make mb projectile? hmmmm. Exo Oo 16:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * good call, forgot about TA --[[Image:AngelusEverton.png]] 16:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When I said it's mainly MB, MB is the key to this build, but you're dead right, it's more the synergy between MB and Distortion, plus the fact the Meteor and Immolate give you quick-recharge damage skills which work in small battles (i.e. RA, TA, and splits), topped off with the extra energy from AoR which lends to spamming cheap skills as well as giving health for extra survivability (with no self healing even your awesome blocking wouldn't be able to keep you alive since 1/4 of attack will still go through and there are spells to worry about too). I hope they don't nerf MB too much though, I quite like it, and it's only really this build it's OP in. 81.110.25.23 18:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * its actually all the energy gain skills combined tbh <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:#BEBEBE;background-color:black;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Terran  18:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC)That's what I was trying to say, MB isn't OP, it's just the whole bar together is ridiculous, nerfing shit that's overpowered now will never work since all of this OPness is deep in the game now, starting like 2 years ago, and now it's REALLY coming through (if it wasn't already) [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 18:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's seen abusive play in almost every arena, so I sure hope that there's still somebody giving a sh!t about the game enough to realize, "Oh sh!t! This E/Me build thingy really IS OP'd!" o.O *Lifts the latch covering the BIG RED NERF BUTTON* Aaannnnd... bye-bye! (green text((>>> *A new build of Guilds Wars blah blah.... --BlazingBurdy 06:56, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Tldr tbh, but this didn't see much play until the AoR buff... Honestly though they probably wont nerf anything about it. ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ  07:03, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I would be happy if they just made MBs energy return more conditional. Right now, you play this by turning your keyboard upside down and smacking it with alternate hands. every skill is on a use-on-recharge basis. I'm not sure what that condition would be, since they probably want to keep it in line with the other "mind" skills.--<FONT COLOR="#347235">|[[Image:Hipowi_sig.jpg]] Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 19:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess that's "skill synergy" for you... non of the skills on their own are really overpowered (I mean MB is pretty powerful and so on but not drastically OP like some things) but when you put them all together, they are. I suppose it's the fact that they are all powerful skills, whereas many builds take slightly underpowered skills (or at least, compared to most of these) since there are no better options, they need a certain type of skill, or they synergise or whatever (like melee chars all need IAS and IMS so will take one even if it's not the best ever et.c.). 86.24.115.34 21:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I like Fragility instead of rodgort's so immolate causes an extra 30 damage every like 3 seconds which i "think" is collectively, so over time, more damage than rodgort's Exo Oo 23:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You loose spiking capability. --<FONT COLOR="#347235">|[[Image:Hipowi_sig.jpg]] Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 23:24, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And Rodgort's can't be removed where as Fragility can... [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 00:15, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And it's LukeJohnson.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 00:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 30 dmg every 3 seconds<130 every 8--<FONT COLOR="#347235">|[[Image:Hipowi_sig.jpg]] Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 00:20, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Every 10 tbh.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 00:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * meh--<FONT COLOR="#347235">|[[Image:Hipowi_sig.jpg]] Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 00:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's 90 damage from the Condition Burning that you are causing alone. Counting in other conditions and condition removal, that could actually do more damage over time. In theory.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 19:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * apart from spiking, yeh its more damage. Coz you could be using immolate/mind blast when using rodgorts, and its 30 damage every 3 seconds over so many seconds. Exo Oo 18:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * and also, if being used in RA this is, fire isn't the only condition thrown around and spiking isn't needed Exo Oo 19:50, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Imho Ele's are supposed to be about damage greater than meleers, but not uber-wtf-bbq-blockage-immune-to-all-forms-of-physicals either. There's nothing skillful about denying physical attackers completely; it's OP'd. --BlazingBurdy 14:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hahahahaha, i love how half this discussion isn't even a discussion, but merely a bunch of melee players raging that eles got buffed. Prior to skill changes to MB, Ether Prism, etc, eles hardly saw any GvG use, largely because of their squishiness and lack of defense. Finally, eles get some buffs with AoR and MB and Ether Prism, and the melee classes, that have ALWAYS been used endlessly in gvg (warriors or sins always frontline, and when was the last time you saw a meta balanced build without a ranger, huh?) just start raging b/c of blocking.  They're like... "omg! i got blocked by an ele! i cant just hit C and faceroll my keyboard anymore! nooooooo, eles must be OP'd, yeah that's it, OP'd" hahahahaha rofl 98.27.164.4 19:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you're obviously stupid and terrible at the game. -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  19:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * /Agree. There are a few ways to counter these builds, but they pretty much only fall into Mesmer. I don't really like how accessible the blocking is for this build though, that is where this really becomes a little too powerful; aside from 1-2'ing a monk.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 19:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Only imba skill on the bar is MB. many powerful skills in the game are balanced because there is some limiting factor, be it recharge, cast time, energy, or conditional effect. this bar is a bunch of skills that are limited only by high energy cost, and fuels it with a skill that fufils its own conditional.--<FONT COLOR="#347235">|[[Image:Hipowi_sig.jpg]] Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 20:03, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Thursday
Suppose this will get hit prty hard by the nerfbat, if we follow Anets policies. Massive  15:03, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, tbh it probably needs a minor nerf, but given ANet they'll probably just do it what they did to Smiter's Boon... "Mind Blast. 25e 2activation 90recharge. Target foe takes 1 Fire Damage. If that foe has less Energy than you, you gain 1 Energy." Or something. Which is a shame, because I do like Mind Blast, though atm it is slightly too powerful. 81.107.77.52 16:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * More like they'll increase the recharge-time/energy-cost of distortion. Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 17:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The broken thing isn't Distortion... [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 17:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * distortion's not the problem, they nerfed that years ago for rangers 18:32, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is fire magic, ups. Notice how MB was re-buffed, Immolate was buffed, Metoer was buffed, RI has always been amazing as long as you can contain it's massive energy. And well, Distortion or w/e you run in there is like the icing on the cake. Even if this build couldn't be used with distortion (say it gets sboon'd) it would still be OP). Best way to nerf this would be recharge times of Immolate (to say 8) and rodgort's (maybe to 10, wouldn't effect toombz that much).
 * Also I think this should be changed to potentially E/any, since the /D version is easily on par with metaness. And you can really run one of these anywhere (some guild use it with /Rt for hard res and Weapon of Warding). [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 00:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This OP'd 1-2-3-4 build needs to take a dirt nap. --BlazingBurdy 16:58, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * just unbuff immolate and meteor and maybe mb--Relyk 21:54, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just debuff 1, 2, 3, 4 and Distortion. Problem Solved. --BlazingBurdy 04:47, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * would have to nerf liquid flame too :/--Relyk 10:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Tbh, move MB into Energy Storage and fuck shit up. :|  Ben Tbh 05:12, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wtf would moving MB into energy storage do o.O Drahgal Meir 05:24, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Force you to spec a shitload more into energy storage. [[Image:Wanderlust.jpg|20px]] Ben Tbh 07:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * so then eles can spec into any elemental attribute and still have oped energy management?--Relyk 07:36, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ben...that would make things soooooo fucking imbalanced.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 11:09, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really...To have to spec 12 into energy storage you'd still need 10 for breakpoint Distortion. Spec 8 Rodgort's isn't imbalanced, is it? I mean, kick it's ass with a nerf regardless...It just seems like such an Energy Management skill in the first place. Ben Tbh 20:29, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you've forgotten that the other the elements, as well as other classes like monk, ritualist, mesmer, necromancer, Assassin (assassacaster) exist. Mind Blast gives eles unlimited energy, making it energy storage would make elementalists even more versatile than necromancers.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 20:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Ikimono is right for once, right now, Mind Blast only makes Fire Eles broken, if it were moved to Energy Storage the entire profession would be broken. 72.38.13.99 20:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Depending on how much you nerf the actual skill. I mean, the entire conversation is 'what to nerf?', so I guess you could go the non-bastard way and nerf the entire Fire line, or go the ANet way and Smiter's Boon Mind Blast. Of course, that was stated above, so this comment is pretty irrelevant. But yeah, I get your point about versatility. I was thinking exclusively towards this build rather than the skill in general. (And yes, I used Smiter's Boon as a verb.) Ben Tbh 20:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * then you would just increase mb's recharge--Relyk 21:18, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Which seems like a viable enough nerf to me...Not 90s or anything, but I mean, 10+ would work. Ben Tbh 21:20, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I say make it dependable on Energy Storage like Glowing Gaze, Shock Arrow ect. Would force people to spec more into ES and yet not making yet more attributes imbalanced. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 09:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Nerf Immolate. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  23:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 4 sec recharge for mb, immolate 60@14 and 5 sec, 10 sec recharge distortion imo--Relyk 01:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Just double the recharge of mindblast? Or perhaps just an increase.
 * Increasing the cost wouldn't make a lot of sense. I for one agree that the recharge of one of said skills could be increased and make play smoother.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 08:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * MB has always been a good skill, when it was nerfed to 3 seconds it saw pretty much no play. Nerf immolate as it is pretty much the major damage source of the bar (3 recharge 90~ damage wat). -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  11:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Immolate got a damage buff because it was a weak flare + 3s burning and rarely used. 2 castings of flare does ~130 damage in 3 1/2 seconds (including both aftercast delays) for the same energy.  Mind Blast is just Flare with 1s longer recharge and energy management, and its e-management has already been nerfed slightly.  Just because a build is good doesn't mean it needs a nerf - WoH monks and Wounding Strike dervishes have been meta forever - I'd rather see bad skills (like, say Swirling Aura) be fixed to make viable builds rather than good builds nerfed.  --Falseprophet 16:58, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And that, my friend, is how Power Creep came to be. -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:26, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That whole argument about flare is countered by the fact, you can dodge flare, and that it can be obstructed. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  17:42, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Immolate really is the only skill needing nerfing on that bar, if they returned immolate to normal it wouldnt pump enough pressure to be worth running at stand or even in TA, and on splits your flagger could hold up prtty much forever vs a couple of them, and it would mean when they collapse your team doesnt suddenly explode :\ The only other skill that could have been op'd with it is rodgorts, but they already nerfed that in the last OP MB thing. Like, seriously, why the hell would you nerf every skill on the bar like some idiots are suggesting when if you just nerf 1 of them its fucked? :\ Reunion 18:38, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You see I have been saying that for a while but only people who have braincells seem to agree. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  19:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * i was aiming for an and/or thing :/--Relyk 22:04, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * As good as they've been with "skill-balancing" I wouldn't be surprised if they 25/90d it, changed some skill functionalities to make it never see usage again, etc.. Either way, I'm pretty fucking tired of seeing this E/Me MB Epidemic that has gone widespread ever since it's been advertised here on PvX. Every newb with half a brain cell can figure out that this template is indeed OP'd. 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-weeeeeeeeee! /facepalm --BlazingBurdy 12:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

the problem is mind blast + aura + fire attune combined, nerfing immolate would make it completely useless again, though it could be the only option <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:#BEBEBE;background-color:black;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Terran  20:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I would rather they revert immolate (so it isn't a nerf in a way), instead of killing the other skills which are actually good skills (MB in HA rocks, same as rodgort's, and Distortion pays a heavy price for blocking). -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  21:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * they should nerf immolate and buff flare--Relyk 21:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

AB Version
Would an AB version warrant its own build, or should the variants section just be expanded to include a heat? <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli 17:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Why would you drop meteor for heat when meteor's so much better esp in where everyone is constantly kiting?--TahiriVeila 17:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * shrines require AoE. -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And meteor can be dodged as lots of people may have Battle Cry. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  19:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * tis good for some of the shrines though.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 20:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess you could drop Immolate and keep Meteor, but then you'd lose any semblance of pressure and the build would basically be a watered down SH. It would just never run out of energy.  Or get killed by attacks.  I don't know.  Drop Rodgort's?  I kind of feel like MB is out of place in AB.  You shouldn't be fighting long enough to run out of energy with SH or SF, and you shouldn't need the defense of MB + Distortion if your team is balanced and you know when to run.  I know it's an incredibly powerful elite, I just think SH and SF are better suited to AB. <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli  03:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Lava Arrows
With new buff Lava Arrows instead of Immolate? Fiendly Fire 00:33, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it should be split up into separate builds. Lava Arrows might function well in one particular setting, but in another the precise pressure of Immolate might make more sense. <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli  04:06, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nawww Immolate is still better, Lava Arrows can be dodged. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  04:19, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Immol. is rapid dps with burning for intense [undodgeable] pressure. Lava Arrows is not. Immol. > L.Arrows. --BlazingBurdy 16:19, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

What's the difference bewteen a newb E/Me and a PRO E/Me...?
NO DIFFERENCE! LOL 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4! BlazingBurdy 04:35, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Mmm, troll moar. -- Jai Goes <font color="Purple">Monksassin Monksassin-icon.png 04:37, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * tbh, if you spam 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 you are terrible. because of the recharge on meteor? Drahgal Meir 04:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * umad? [[image:Thunda_Sig_2.jpg‎ |19px]]<font color="Orange" face="Harrington" size="3">Thunda 05:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sarcasm != madness, but Thunda = Troll, and Drahgal Meir would know about the E/Me MB ele's sequence since that's all he really plays tbh.. True Story, bro. --BlazingBurdy 06:16, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * omg spam barbed spear moar. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  09:53, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * * Spears Frosty Mc Admin!* FV! --BlazingBurdy 14:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to  *'s in the beginning or it looks like that. *Does it for you* --  -Ch  ao  s-   15:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, *Distortion Blocks" Mind Blast Immolate Rodgort's Invocation X 1 Trillion. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  16:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * /autohit, I backfired you in the beginning of that chain! O_o roll a d20 for if you get moral victory, or just settle for laming yourself by mocking my build. -- -Ch  ao  s-   16:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Monk pulled veil nigga -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  17:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I rupt him with pro reflexes ;o or scream at my necro to cover it with something, the basic mesmer bar doesn't have much I'd want to cover with. Or strip preveil <3 -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:57, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, this discussion is retarded, I hate these "well I fly away and call for god to smite you to death and there's nothing you can do about it"-competitions. -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:57, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

You guys are lolol. *Uses haxxed Whirling Axe wiff noes adrenaline requirement [4evar-charged] on Frosty!* *Frosty blows up* /dance --BlazingBurdy 14:56, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Here comes Burdy's one-man troll train... -- Jai Goes <font color="Purple">Monksassin Monksassin-icon.png 15:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * waits 2 seconds for Distortion to recharge again. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  15:11, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * bring inspired hex against backfire--Relyk 17:37, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Casts Rigor Mortis on Frosty and trains her. Reapplies Backfire on Relyk and trains her, too. I'm a A/D/E/Me/Mo/N/P/R/Rt/W20 One-Man team! GITSUM! >:OOO --BlazingBurdy 20:08, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Derv variant
Spec 10 into earth instead of wind and bring Armor of Sanctity and Mystic Regeneration? [-Lifestyle-] 00:08, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Imo Mirage cloak is probably better paired with armor of sanctity or mystic regen than armor of sanctity + mystic regen. Who cares if you can stay alive when ur being interupted constantly by rangers and getting your spells disabled and also getting knocked down by sins and warriors constantly. Smity Smitington 00:22, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The E/D variant on the page is for GvG splitting (especially on Burning Isle), where having Featherfoot and cripple reduction lets you run through lava without slowing down (it's also good for just combating conditions in general and running around). AoS isn't great on splits there anyway (most splits on Burning Isle are other MB eles and rangers), and Dwayna's Touch means you can heal your fellow splitter(s) if need be. Wind Prayers also has Pious Restoration, which is good for self hex removal. I see Earth Prayers stuff in RA though, so that could probably go in variants. Toraen   talk  00:43, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ with cripple rune + crip shield + featherfoot cripple expires basically as soon as it's applied. Dwayna's is much better than mystic regen as well, b/c you can use it on others. Between a ranger with mend touch and two E/D with dwayna's you can keep a three man split up against almost anything but a full collapse--TahiriVeila 03:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And anything you can't tank you can just run away from--TahiriVeila 03:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe page can be updated to say that the wind prayers variant is for GvG only cuz to ppl that dont gvg its really confusing why it's on here. For RA the wind prayers version is not good, /me is way better or earth prayers with mirage cloak and mystic regen or armor of sanctity. Smity Smitington 04:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Distortion nerf
Still works but less defence recharge is now 8 sec.ARCHIVE LOL nah jk
 * I think archiving isn't necessary because ppl generally don't gank you when they see you have a block stance...--Tyrael-- 10:07, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * 4/8s allows for all the training in the world, and Immolate nerf severely hurts the damage output. -- -Ch  ao  s-   10:08, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * If anything it was a good couple of nerfs, this is still very good and does great damage + defense, but now it is less effective so, not as OP. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  10:12, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * I kinda hope for the sake of balanced nerfing that you're right. Nerfs always seem to be a lil' too hard. -- -Ch  ao  s-   10:13, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

E/Me bar is officially dead imho, though E/D is still playable. I suggest we archive this bar and give the E/D variant its own page--TahiriVeila 12:35, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Or just make it /any... -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  12:59, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, with the nerf to patient spirit, pressure is gonna be (a little) harder to mitigate. I can see this still working well enough. I dont know why this wasn't E/Any in the first place tbh.-- Ikimono "Mutton Chop Man" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 13:24, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

I suddenly think that the earth prayers variant might start to become rly popular, for arenas atlaest Smity Smitington 21:15, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * This is still playable, so is E/D, just not as OP. :p --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin.jpg 21:35, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * I added an earth prayers variant, so ill leave it up to the leeters to decide if it stays or goes Smity Smitington 22:04, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, got deleted. Oh well, Earth Prayers mind blast is way better than distortion, 50% blocking 100% of the time > 75% blocking 50% of the time, and no recharge time on mirage cloak means as soon as it gets removed u can throw it up again with its 1/4 second cast time, way way better than distortion, plus it does more damage. Smity Smitington 00:25, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

This build is actually great for pve as well its nowhere near as good at crwod control as a searing flames build but it allows you to pump out serious damage on a single target like a monk or a boss.--Jakool3 20:06, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * gw:Pain Inverter Brandnew 20:08, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

SO
Anet apparently has their eye on this elite skill. Great.
 * Source--GWPirate 17:16, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

dw
No one runs it in RA anymore, either. --Lemstar (talk) 09:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * So just archive this? I'm guessing it's been replaced by Mind Burn everywhere. -- Toraen  wiki  16:35, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine to keep around. It's not amazing anymore, but the bar isn't totally obsolete or anything. --Lemstar (talk) 22:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)