Archive talk:Mo/A WoH Shadow Arts Monk

I'm keeping this in trial until the changes to WoH are final. Also, can somebody fill in the usage for me? I'm in the counters list. &mdash; T h b r  w z r  03:50, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Just put it into testing. Worst comes to worst, we archive it. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  13:37, 9 November 2007 (CET)

I knew this was coming... Lord Belar 03:53, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * WoH is going to win in arenas if it stays in its current state. @15 it heals for 250 on allies below 50%, can be used on yourself, has 3/4 casting time, somewhat spamable. All that for 5 energy. &mdash; T h b r  w z r  04:02, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * It definitely needed a boost. --71.229.204.25 04:11, 9 November 2007 (CET)


 * Lol, LoD got asploded. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 06:21, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Like a nub :( Viet (talk *pvxcontribs ) 06:35, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Needz less SoA. Dmg is usually reduced by 20 max, which is like... 60 dmg reducement? Signet of rejurnavation is better for my part. - Unexist  16:03, 11 November 2007 (CET)


 * SoA is crazy wtf ownage tbh. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 16:13, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * In ha yes, where they all nuke your balls out, but in ra it will migrate about 50 damage, ain't that mutch. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]Unexist  13:46, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Build is ftw now Phalmatticus 05:27, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Me being the one who complianed about shock axe. i just have to say the SB is terrible. i play my monk without it because 1. uses too much energy 2. any decent monk can just stop a spike without it( using just as much energy.) then another problem is the energy manegment of the build(you really need GolE).Bioexpert
 * You fail, Spirit Bond is a lifesaving skill (Guess you've never been knock-locked) for only 10 energy and if you need seriously need GoLE to run this, stop trying to play monk [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]Phalmatticus 18:49, 24 February 2008 (EST)
 * Guess you don't know what guardian is. Also, knocklocks aren't that much of a problem with hexes+guardian, and magebane(interupt dev hammer gg). Spirit bond isn't needed generally in arena's. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  05:33, 8 March 2008 (EST)
 * Hi, I am a spellcaster. I can hurt stuff without being blocked. 88.197.160.190 12:02, 8 March 2008 (EST)
 * Hi, I am a ranger. I can d-shot stuff. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  07:32, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Protective Spirit
Is vastly inferior to SB in the arenas. — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 09:40, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Why? Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 16:04, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Because most spikes are doing in excess of 60 damage. There is no VoD or anything like that. Scythes, etc, all hitting for buttloads of damage make SB the logical choice. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  18:01, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * kk Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 12:04, 10 November 2007 (CET)

Thank you. — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 11:13, 9 November 2007 (CET)

ROFL "anti-caster racism"... anyway, nice job --Guild of Deals 12:31, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Nice use of the buffed WoH... any1 tried in HB yet? Himynameisbobbyjoe 19:46, 9 November 2007 (CET)

ZB is still better. - Rawrawr  19:55, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * The thing about WoH is that it can still be used efficiently even if the target is over 50%. &mdash; T h b r  w z r  21:28, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Jamesbr ran WoH well in Hb, he had spotless soul though, imho ZB is better because prot is really more or less what you need in HB when monking it, not heals. --Drowning Pigeon 21:03, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * You don't need 14 prot, a bit less is enough. And that bit less can be put into healing, then a bit less divine favor and you get healing on 14. Even 12~13 healing would be enough for a bigger heal. I like WoH better right now, but I can see why people prefer ZB. But right now (when talking about Build Wars) WoH is the better choice. Railin 12:33, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * I just don't like WoH because it requires you to spec lol amounts of healing. - Rawrawr  12:34, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * lol. You just dislike it for the same reason people dislike Healing Breeze. It's considered a newbie skill/attribute because it used to be horrible and now it's mediocre. Railin 12:42, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * No, I believe I just said why i disliked it. And I do not think it is a newbie skill. - Rawrawr  13:14, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * All personal preference, I guess. I doubt WoH will survive for long anyway so I'll probably move back to ZB myself soon. lol Railin 13:20, 10 November 2007 (CET)

Infuse Health
WTB it. --71.229.204.25 22:06, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * For arenas? &mdash; T h b r  w z r  22:07, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * ...I need to start reading tags. Or names, for that matter.  no, not rly. --71.229.204.25 22:09, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Infuse rox in arenas, I used it a couple times. Not that I got much further than usual, but it's fun. :o Railin 09:07, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * You can't infuse yourself, and who else is there to infuse in arenas? :P --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 14:06, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * The newly buffed heal breeze wammo! - Rawrawr  14:11, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * Rawrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  13:47, 17 November 2007 (CET)

E-Management?
Don't you think you'll need some? Especially if pre-veiling, your energy will die. Spamming WoH along with your other spells will leave you a little... Energy deprived. IDK what skill to use, except maybe Divine Spirit or something. --Guild of Deals 23:25, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * Mo/A are usually for people who have more experience playing monks, but I guess SoR could be a variant for people who have trouble managing their energy. Railin 23:49, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * Oh, it's already in variant. :p my bad. Railin 23:50, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * Counters: Failing at monk. DON"T SPAM. U'll be fine if you don't. This build looks fine as it is. I personally would tae dark escape and take some out of Divine Favor and put it in Shadow arts. Kinda looks like a ZB build, only the elite is argueably worse with what you put.--The Gates Assassin 23:56, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * About the Mo/A remark, I'd say they are rather for smaller scale PvP where there's no second healer around to protect you, such as arenas. Comparing this build with a ZB build, this one has a larger heal for 2 more energy than a ZB build, if the target is under 50%, and an almost equal heal for 5 energy less if the target is over 50%. I don't think you should have any greater troubles managing energy with this build than you have playing ZB. 62.108.212.236 03:55, 11 November 2007 (CET)

No Res?
Really, even if the selection of Monk hard res skills suck in Arenas (long casting time) you can still add like Res Sig and be ok. Put a res in, I suggest it. --Guild of Deals 01:27, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * if you have to pause to res someone, it means your doing your job wrong or he overextended. in either case its really stupid to waste your time ressing when you should be healing and keeping the other players alive. Alpha fireborn[[Image:Alpha Fireborn Cripshot.JPG|19px]] 01:32, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * Only bad people put res on a monk :/. 68.35.91.2 01:34, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * Every seconds spend rezzing could be spent on preventing the next rezz. :( Grobie 04:38, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * When people see a Monk ressing, they'll spike immediatly, if they can. As a Monk, you can do two things: let the spiked target die and res, or cancel ressing and heal. So you won't really have time to res. And a Monk needs his skill slots pretty hard. Sir Bertrand 11:20, 11 November 2007 (CET)

Delete Tag
This isn't a dupe of the Balanced WoH, thats a dupe of this, just look in history. &mdash; T h b r  w z r  04:30, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * Okay, let's delete a favored build for an unfavored one =/ — Skakid9090 04:31, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * Eh, I guess your right, but yeah, this one isn't the dupe, this one just got noticed later. &mdash; T h b r  w z r  04:34, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * This one should not be deleted. That one is more of a dupe than this. Swift Thief 04:51, 11 November 2007 (CET)

Note: Other WoH build is now a general WoH build... With this in variants - so is this necessary to have?99.238.193.242

Attribute Spread
I think this build would work better if the attributes were spread 12-10-8-2. WoH really needs the high healing but the prot spells can get away with the slightly reduced effectiveness. And with such high healing, it makes sense to run sig rejuvenation instead of SoA, which isn't very helpful in the arenas anyways. Doing so gives you a little bit of e-management and a secondary heal that, with proper micromanagement, is actually fairly decent (and free). 2 points into Shadow Arts reaches the cutoff point for a 4 second cripple as well. The build still relies heavily on WoH though, and if it gets disabled, it's probably gg. &mdash; Hordespawn 22:24, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * SoA is secks in arenas. It basically stops the typical arena tactic of "gank monk lol", since you mitigate so much damage it's unreal. As for the attributes it's really personal preference. I like to use the setup here, with the extra 2 in DF (mainly because I <3 guardian spam) but yeah, personal preference. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 23:18, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * Depends, if you have wammo's that go QQ this monk here 3 2 1! Now chop him the rest of the match! Then y, if you're facing any decent player SoA's effect will be minimum in the arena's(unless they have like 3 or 4 wars, but that's not worth mentioning). - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  17:07, 4 January 2008 (EST)

Why 14 Prot and 11 healing? Moush 07:38, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * Good question.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 20:29, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * Because you get little real benefit from higher healing prayers, while you get a lot of benefit from longer/better prot spells, mostly due to the fact that you have so many of them. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 01:47, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah, I like having a 7 sec guardian, but if i wanted good prots, wouldn't it just be better to run ZB? Moush 02:06, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * ZB is bad unless the target's under 50% hp. WoH is decent if the guy's above 50% hp. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:09, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I guess WoH is just GoH on crack, wouldn't it be better to have Shielding hands or something instead of Vigorous since there's 14 prot now. Moush 02:13, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Probably, but I've messed with the bar enough for now... Vig Spirit is bad, tbh. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:15, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Patient Spirit
I've used it over RoF a lot in the arenas. Any experienced arena player think this is a good replacement? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  16:03, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * I tried it. Unless you have a secondary healer, it's no good if you're being knocked down and you need a quick lifesaver right after getting up. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 01:39, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * RoF lets you quickly deal with medium or high packet damage without using heavier prots. PS is just a weak heal that won't trigger when you want to half the time, doesn't mitigate, and has a longer recharge.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  01:44, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * I also use it, but I take it with RoF and guardian, acts as a nice heal for when multiple targets are at low-medium HP or if WoH gets d-shotted. [[Image:Phalmatticus Sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 00:42, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Vigorous spirit
Not even joking. This skill isn't just for wamos anymore. Been running it on my RA woh bar for quite some time now (sub out shielding hands and you got my bar), and it's been working great. Put it on your melee and pressure healing takes care of itself, allowing you more time for running around like a retard, casting guardian on yourself, and finding needlessly complicated uses for return (that's what RA monking is all about, after all). You can also maintain it on yourself (or anyone else) for dismiss condition to always give the heal if woh gets shut down, or if you're fighting a grossly overpowered enchanter's conundrum build. The 1/4 casting time really did wonders for this skill. Pluto 02:11, 5 February 2008 (EST)


 * Instead of Shielding Hands sounds good.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  02:23, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * SH is needed imo. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 14:40, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Equip
Why are we running a 40/40 healing set when most of the skills are prot? -- Armond Warblade 19:17, 13 February 2008 (EST)
 * One of the def sets should be changed to a 40/20/20% staff imo. --Mala[[Image:Mala_sig_Mind_Blast.jpg|19px]] 14:13, 15 February 2008 (EST)
 * Its because I copypasted from somewhere.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 18:29, 15 February 2008 (EST)


 * The equipment isn't really correct. I have never heard of any monk who uses a wand for prots. You can use that but you get better efficiency with this:


 * 1. +5 or -5 weapon / shield
 * 2. 40% HCT, 20% HCR, 20% Enchanting protection staff
 * 3. 40/40 healing wand / focus
 * 4. High set this is personal preference some use 2x +15/-1 items i use a 20% HCR/HCT, 20% Enchanting, +15/-1 prot staff.


 * Imo you're giving up on efficiency if you waste two weaponsets with a weapon/shield. You can just doubleclick your +5 or -5 weapon in inventory if you need to swap in game. Good mesmers and rangers will interrupt your woh without much problems at normal speed. With a 40/40 heal set you can even cast thru migraine and stuff.--85.226.179.242 08:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)

On this build I do not think the 20% enchant is needed. SBond will end when it meets its limit, you want patient to end asap, and guardian is easily renewable. The only skill I may want that on is Vigirious Spirit and thats it. So I vote for a 20/40 +30hp. (Mr Pink57 21:16, 28 March 2008 (EDT))

Secondary heal
In ra this build looks fine but for ta it would be wise to have a secondary heal. Patient spirit is what most monks run. Most good rangers or mesmers will shut down your woh when you fail to roll a few fast casts.

Also Disciplined stance is generally better than return in an organized team (read ta) most good monks seem to prefer it including me but that's just my opinion ofcourse. In ra however return could prove to be more valuable as most people there just "zerg" the monk.

In ta unless there the meta says otherwise i usually don't take spirit bond. If your team know what they are doing you can control the damage of your enemy and a skill like that becomes pretty useless on your bar.--85.226.179.242 07:46, 19 February 2008 (EST)


 * I agree, Patient Spirit makes a very nice secondary heal in the event that WoH gets shutdown [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 15:18, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Rof + Patient spririt sucks. You'd be running either one of them. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  05:31, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Thats not true, its like running GoH with ZB was just a secondary heal. If I had a choice I would take RoF everytime. (Mr Pink57 19:58, 30 April 2008 (EDT))

GvG
People have run this exact set-up for a split Monk as well. Going to add that and change the title. Zuranthium 18:13, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Spotless Soul
I rather take this over Draw I hate taking draw in RA especially since things like daze, cripple, and dw are around. (71.82.137.61 23:38, 29 April 2008 (EDT))
 * I do the same, Dismiss Condition works fine for me but holy veil alone isn't much for anti-hex in RA [[Image:RailinWoHInvertedSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black">Phalmatticus 17:58, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
 * The whole point of draw, is stuff like cripple, daze, dw. If they're stacked, you otherwise have 2 let the conditions on since bumping dismiss about 4 times, is pretty bad. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  07:31, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Counter
took out "being bad at healing" as a counter --Kickside 19:05, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

Switchs
aren't correct. especially 1 & 2 Syn 19:42, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

bad
go Mo/W. get bash, Vig Spir, Spotless, dis stance. Drop SB and draw. Replace with dismiss. --<font color="Black">Readem 03:39, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * could we get that in template form? 24.63.206.168 15:17, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

I am so lazy. RA Version:

The atts are like: 14HP, 9DV, 8-9 Prot, 9 Tactics. I don't remember exactly. TA Version

The atts are: 14 HP, 11 Prot, like 8-9 DF. The optional can either be condition removal or Dstance. I don't know what other people run, but I usually go Mtouch. --<font color="Black">Readem 15:26, 11 July 2008 (EDT)


 * Already made one readem.--[[Image:Crossfire's Signature.JPG]] 15:29, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Merge
Discuss. -- Frosty  07:41, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
 * We should only have one WoH build tbh--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  07:48, 6 December 2008 (EST)