Talk:News/20111212

Why on earth do we need a merc link? I foresee this being a duplicate of the hero builds. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.143.110.141 (talk &bull; contribs) 22:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Because it really won't hurt anything to try. Merc builds will be held to obviously higher standards. They must perform better than non-merc builds to be stored. I expect it to be a small category, and I might have to relegate it to a subset of hero with a special tag later, but we'll see how this goes. It's a main page link right now so that it actually gets attention. --  Toraen   talk  03:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I doubt it'll be a duplicate because if it can just be run by normal heroes, it'll stay in that category. The one thing I'm not sure about for this is how popular it'll be - have no clue about a) the number of people who have mercenaries on their account, b) how many "well known" 7 man hero builds there are at the moment which require more than 3 (or 4) of only 1 profession. The trial is a good idea anyway. Athrun Feya 15:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the merc link is a good idea. People tend to limit their team build when using heroes, thinking about mercs free you from that.  Case in point, someone gave a build with 2 mesmers and 1 ranger just because he doesn't have enough mesmer heroes.  But replacing that ranger with a N/Me, even with a mesmer skill bar and some points to soul reaping would perform even better.
 * However, the GW community is expecting a major PvE update soon after wintersday, along with the Ele update. Posting a team build now may cause it to be deprecated a week later.  So just because I don't post any merc builds now doesn't mean that I am not interested.  I am just waiting for that update to happen first then see.DarkSpirit 19:05, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed on both, a merc link and waiting after wintersday are great ideas--Batousai 16:02, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

update
After a month we still have no merc builds vetted and it doesn't look like those in testing are doing so well. Might be better to just keep merc and hero builds in the same place, and make it very obvious in the unlikely event there's a merc build? - Athrun Feya  16:02, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thats pretty accurate. It would probably just be fine to have names like Build:Team - 7 Hero Mercenary Player Support etc. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  16:28, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Given the recentness of the PvE update, I think the trial should be extended a couple of weeks, until everything normalises. There's potentially a number of builds that have been trashed due to the update and maybe some new one's that haven't been created yet.
 * That point aside, I'd say either a Merc Category, or not at all. I'd rather not leave it up to relying on the user being able to read to that extent =x.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  16:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt that any merc team is going to come up now that eles are more viable (meaning you don't need 4+ mesmers to max your damage output). I did say in this news post "one month after the next update", so there's officially still time. If no new merc builds are submitted in a week or two though, I wouldn't mind ending it early. At that point, I'd remove it from the main page and if a really popular (read: Meta) team among people who use mercs comes out afterwards, it can get a special tag like the dungeon builds. Otherwise we're back to no mercs because they apparently don't matter. -- Toraen   confer  19:28, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not going to happen unless someone works out a merc requiring build for 5 minute hard mode DoA using only mercs and heroes or something. A new misery  19:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Unless someone gets around to posting a mercway using an SF tank for doa or uw, that won't be happening soon.-- Relyk 19:48, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * tank + 7 RoJ Fianchetto 19:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

How PvX Should "Decide" on the Merc Tag
Let's all be honest, as it stands, the merc category is next to useless. Why store builds for those who have the money to buy more heroes? We hold the logic that with these merc builds should come new builds. After all, why else would one buy them? I, for one, believe it is illogical to have such a policy. If we're under the presumption that with this new tag should come new builds, then we're forcing creativity. In the end, we'll only get redundant/overkilled builds that hold no creativity altogether.

I am in no way or form saying we should create new builds or promote creativity. PvX thrives off of what is known to work and document it as such. The only conclusion that we should come up with is to tag every none meta HERO build with the merc tag. This can show that while some builds may be more popular than others, there are even more viable options for other players who wish to expand their amount of heroes. This is will allow other builds to gain more leverage to the meta builds. That is how we can promote builds and stimulate creativity on the end of the player. Putting normal hero builds in there will cause no harm; if others want to put a merc hero team, they are as well able to do that. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]   22:24, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Tag non-meta hero builds with what?-- Relyk 22:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ups, tag with the merc tag. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * no. There's a difference between heroes and Mercs and I'd like that distinction to be abundantly clear to any and all users, so people know which builds require them to spend real money on to function correctly. Replacing the hero tag with a Merc tag (which is essentially what you're suggesting) is a bad idea.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  23:26, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Also what does tagging hero builds with a Merc tag acheive anyway? If it's tagged for heroes then you can already form the build with the heroes in game, seems pointless to say "Oh yeah, this can be used by the free NPCs you get through the game, or you can cough up some money to have it!". I only see a Merc tag working on team builds, where a Merc is required (because too few heroes of a certain class for the build etc.)  ~ PheNaxKian talk  23:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I meant that we should also add the merc tag. But I see what you mean. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 23:41, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Merc's are stupid, the only reason you would ever want to buy merc slots are to roleplay with yourself like a sick fuck. It doesn't hold much use realistically in pve.  RąʂKɭɘş ♣  14/f/japan  01:22, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Mercenaries would have been better if Eles weren't viable still. Now they are... There are enough heroes to go around. Soi Sticker 01:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Costumes are more stupid. They cost money and they serve no advantage in pve whatsoever and yet people buy them.  If I have the money, it would be more practical to put them into mercs than costumes.  What is the point of attaining your FoW armor if you have to pay real money to hide it in the game with a costume in the end?  At least having 4 mesmer heroes make some logical sense to me in terms of pve usefulness.  Nobody cares what you look like, especially if you are too ashamed to even show your own armor.DarkSpirit 06:48, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * MErcs were VERY useful back before you could make razah any profession, before the new mesmer hero, before the new ele buffs. Now they're completely unnecessary.--TahiriVeila 11:56, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really. I still find having 4 or more mesmer heroes to be the best.  Casters groups in HM just die through repeated interrupts without getting a spell off.  The effect is kind of like fighting the wind riders groups just outside Rata Sum in Magus stone, super-charged with better skill bars.  Costumes are still the most useless thing to pay for in the store.DarkSpirit 16:20, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Second Ritualist Hero
There's honestly no reason for merc category when we can run three mesmers now.-- Relyk 18:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Can we if we want two rits too? <font color="black" face="LCD">Shadow  <font color="darkred" face="LCD">Computer coded  18:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * After completing all WoC NM & HM... <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  18:08, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Aaaaah :P <font color="black" face="LCD">Shadow  <font color="darkred" face="LCD">Computer coded  18:12, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd say the merc section is done. I'll remove it from the main page and the build tags tomorrow. -- Toraen   confer  19:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think even a build that requires 4 mesmers can have one of the mesmers replaced by a N/Me, so in general, we don't need a merc section.DarkSpirit 07:06, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

"I doubt anyone reads this..."
I read all of your work Toraen. Riveting tales from the perspective of a wiki admin!  RąʂKɭɘş ♣  14/f/japan  07:09, 14 February 2012 (UTC)