Archive talk:Mo/any WoH Arena Monk/Archive 2

Was an archive really necessary to keep you from looking stupid?--TahiriVeila 23:14, December 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think so --Wingsy 00:04, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Big archive was getting big.--Ikimono  "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 00:16, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Continuing from the archive:
X, you don't get to "lolpvx". You don't even properly understand what it is used for, as is obvious by your terrible usage of it. The only way you'll ever be right about anything here is if you agree consistently with Frosty and/or Crow or you stay off of Build pages. I would suggest the latter due to the lack of interesting/non-autistic material in the Build space. ···  Danny  Pew   Pew  20:20, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Even though you might see it oh so very offensive, he's actually right. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 21:24, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

that guy's bad guys! lets all mock him together for his silly guise of an argument and surround him with guys who like bukakAY
 * Hello. Should we perform a proper old time spanking? -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 09:11, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * LOLpvx...slow ass monk is pro X 11:26, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm
Made a monk, got the 40/40 made, high set, almost on spear/shield, but question, what mods/inscriptions are involved in the 40/20 prot staff?  Akio _Ka  t  suragi    08:47, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * A staff with 20%Enchant wrapping, Aptitude not Attitude inscript and an Adept Staff head.--Wingsy 08:57, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ooh. duh, was picturing the % as a typo, makes sense now. thx lol ^^ hmm. overall is that staff necessary? or should i not use the build without having it. jw cuz... i'm kinda lazy to keep getting mods and weapons.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 08:59, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's pretty much not needed. It's used to cast guardian, but by no means necessary. Life   Guardian  09:01, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * So.. unless i'm epic at the build, for now just the 40/40 healing, highset, and spear/shield are fine? maybe even a low set if a[n]"Shame" get[s] through or something?  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 09:04, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's nice to have an enchanting martial set (spear) if you want to cast guardian but want to keep a shield on. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 09:17, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Soz.. 4040, high, a fortitude with w/e shields, then enchant with shields? just wanting to get an idea of what i needa do b4 i start back to school in 3 weeks lol. and like use the 4040 under what conditions? inhernetly depending on other team, like switch to [fire] shield for sf spam, or if using some of the /w skills. like, not used to getting all this stuff for caster, jw what situations call for what things, if anyone can give me a lowdown. and their opinions on the best secondary/skills, feel free to leave on talk page if it'll be easier for me to access. lol.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 09:26, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * 40/40 set for casting spells fast (interrupts, saving a target in time, recharge begins faster) and for faster recharges. Pretty much just makes you heal faster. Use this instead of the high set as far as possible.
 * High set (+30e/-2e regen) Use this whenever you're out of energy. Switch back to your low (shield) set to regenerate energy and to have more energy. Never sit on your high set in vain.
 * +5e spear (furious, crippling, heavy. Whichever is necessary) and a +30hp shield with -5/20%, as a regular setting. PvP Strength shields provide 1 more armor than other shields, if you don't meet the req. You can also have some color system for recognizing the shields in your inventory (eg. red Motiv. shield is always +10 fire armor, brown Motiv is earth, orange Command is Blunt etc)
 * (Keep in inventory, no room in wepslots) -5e spear with the same shields as above. To counter energy denial and to die on. Functions as a regular defensive set, and if you're going to die with negative energy, do it on this one as possible.
 * 40% HCT/+20% enchantment duration Prot Staff, for casting Guardian and SoA/SH. Switch back to shield or 40/40 after using it.
 * Was that all clear, or did you still wonder about anything? -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 17:24, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * ^^ thx chaos.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 20:29, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * You should really only have a +30 if you're either really terrible or really good. Intermediate players shouldn't bother since you'll rarely realize when the right times to use it are. I usually never swap off shield set because +AL is basically the best thing ever. ···  Danny Hates Snow   07:15, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The shield set should be your default. 40/40 sets come in handy when you need to pump out fast heals. But really in RA you should be able to predict when damage will be coming in and heal/prot accordingly. +30 energy sets are just a trap that your energy will never climb out of unless you're good like that. I've seen some high-ranking players use a martial weapon with a focus off-hand. It gives you relatively high energy without sacrificing regen and you still have that 20/20 HSR/HCT. [[Image:Shino sig.png]]22:33, 27 December 2009
 * I tend to be able to live on my high set for ages without dying, and if I have Bonetti's or my team pushes them on the defense, climbing up isn't very hard <3
 * And O_o using a high set correctly isn't hard, you're never on it longer than a second, and the only hard part is realizing when you're going to die, and not die on your high set. -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 23:04, December 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't need to be on your high set for ages....[[Image:Shino sig.png]]23:36, 27 December 2009
 * It's called not dying under heavy pressure. You should try it :o -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 00:16, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's called pre-protting/field awareness and not over-healing. Unless it's heavy hex pressure. In which case you're fucked either way. [[Image:Shino sig.png]]00:38, 28 December 2009
 * Are you seriously saying that there is no situation in which a monk isn't out of energy, and living just off the high set? I just happen to extend that period, and suddenly I'm bad? I'm very sure you're speaking of experience here, aren't you? -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 00:45, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

If your making sets for RA just get a shield set because the fuck cares about ra? --Frosty  00:47, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes we all have experience with being bad. I'm making a case against a +30 energy set. Not attacking you. In fact, you assumed - and subtly called me terrible - that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Are you trying to say that you are just a god with a high energy set because you can stay on it for so long? Because you seem to be on it for no "longer than a second." I don't care about your monking prowess in RA. In my opinion, there should be the shield set, a 40/40 set, a 40/20/20 staff and then the martial weapon plus the off-hand OR a -5 energy weapon with the shield. That is all. [[Image:Shino sig.png]]00:57, 28 December 2009
 * Personal preference, the difference is -1e regen for a short duration. And yes, I was somewhat directly calling you bad after you made a case against the +30 set <3 I don't really see the thing in having +20e sets, it just means you lose the +10e and have a short duration of more eregen. I'll laugh if anyone says they're longer than casting a spell on their high setssssss -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 01:02, December 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * I get a massive epeen when I live 5 mins swapping between my high and shield set <3 -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 01:02, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow....no comment. [[Image:Shino sig.png]]01:05, 28 December 2009
 * You take this very seriously, don't you? 5 mins is basically the match from the start to the end, which is... well, bad, and everything ever said is subject to exaggeration. -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 01:08, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * Really? [[Image:Shino sig.png]]01:22, 28 December 2009
 * 5MIN? bad team or bad players....funny thing though it goes like that sometimes.   Game last forever....(2 monks)...or under 5min.  I like the ones where it is even and stragety wins...mainly combos-- X  05:29, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * I use enraging 3-5 times a match, any over that and I rage. --  Biggles  Jollyfist   09:11, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

I run a hammer on my monk because Counter Blow is the best anti-pressure in the game. You are all terrible jews. ···  Danny Hates Snow   22:48, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I monk on my warrior to get a 3s Counter Blow + Qknock with HBash. You can all go up my chimney ^___^ -- -Chaos- (moo) -- 23:05, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * for extra points, run the Turtle Tanker FA build. ···  Danny Hates Snow   23:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

25e set
Its probably been said, but im too lazy to read. That +5e spear should really be -5e then just weapon cast :D 24.150.172.32 02:51, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

equip
why not q9 tact. shield? Playing Is Srs Bsns  talk  18:25, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Max Q7/8 Tactics shield if you meet the requirements, otherwise a Strength shield.
 * less spec into tactics means more divine favor. ···  Danny So Cute   18:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Weakness is that serious, and breakpoint for stances is at 8. -- Chaos  -- 20:09, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

For Random Arenas
Guardian and Dismiss Condition are definitely not main bar. It's useless to spec into Prot for RA these days. You just want Healing + Divine + Tactics. I run this:

[build prof=Monk/Warrior HealingPrayers=12+1+2 DivineFavor=9+1 Tactics=9 ProtectionPrayers=3][Shield Bash][Word of Healing][Patient Spirit][Draw Conditions][Vigorous Spirit][Cure Hex][Signet of Rejuvenation][Balanced Stance][/build]

The major Healing rune is my choice, go minor if you want. You can also go -1 Tactics and +1 Divine if you have a good req7 Shield. Armor should all be +15 AL while under a condition.

Some people like Bonetti's Defense as well, although I find Shield Bash to be far more fun. Zuranthium 04:12, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not just run sup healing? A lot more mileage on WoH, tbh. ···  Danny So Cute   05:26, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Dual hex removal. And dismiss, srsly. Cripple loses games for you, with that retarded overextending sin on your team. -- Big McStrongfist  05:39, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * normally i'd agree, but i personally got into the habit of just letting them die when i played. ···  Danny So Cute   05:45, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Dual hex removal is also an option, McStrongfist. You have to take out either the Condi Removal or the Sig Rejuv to fit it, though, and I like having both. You definitely do NOT want Dismiss over Draw Conditions, however. It casts slower and isn't going to clean the target. Zuranthium 19:09, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

tbh it's worth speccing into prot just for shielding hands + a bit of heal on dismiss. It's all about preference, if you're better at redbar take more heal, if you like to prot take some prot. Personally I've been running with either guardian, balanced stance or holy veil depending on what's being played more that day. Anyway, there's no point in making it a single bar as effective play depends on player skill, preference, and the particular meta du jour. I'd argue for leaving it more as a guide.--TahiriVeila 19:20, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it's not "worth it". It has absolutely nothing to do with "being better at prot" either. No matter how well you prot, it's NOT going to be as efficient against the majority of opponents. Unless a target is being trained by 3 Physical damage dealers, casting Word of Healing (with added healing because of not having to spec into Prot) is more efficient than a 5-second duration Guardian. And what is Shielding Hands supposed to do? Vigorous Spirit is far superior and you don't have to drop your Divine Favor spec to bring it. Condi removal aside from Draw Conditions is a waste of space as well. The heal you get from those spells isn't worth the energy to cast it in comparison to just using Patient Spirit/WoH/Vigorous Spirit. Zuranthium 02:25, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * tbh, prot spells are incredibly effective if used correctly. that's kinda why they're in the game. i'd suggest submitting your version as a wholly different build, zurrie, since it really is. your version focuses entirely on healing. i've commonly run a full prot bar with ZB just as effectively as I've run a solid heal bar, and I can see the positive sides to each. it mostly depends on field awareness. ···  Danny So Cute   02:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Prot spells are good, yes, but not for an RA Monk bar. There isn't enough room on the bar. RA is full of degen and pure damage. If you bring prot, you're simply diminishing your efficiency. ZB is not "just as effective". That bar absolutely can not push bars up well enough. Again, it has nothing to do with field awareness. The simple fact is that casting Guardian on a target is less efficient the majority of the time than using a pure heal (certainly if it's a lower spec on a WoH bar). Plus, Guardian is a longer cast so that leaves you with less time to kite and a greater chance of being interrupted. Zuranthium 03:48, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * i see what you mean, because its rare to have more then 1 physical on one person at a time, so 5e is a waste when you can just WoH and heal for more then guardian is going to stop, but in all honesty an 8 second guardian can free a monk up to cast elsewhere while that person is taking half physical damage. its quite useful in many situations, plus it protects against rangers, and warriors about to blow their adrenaline. Gringo 04:01, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's really sad because I like prot. When WoH first got buffed, I definitely thought ZB was better for RA still. But, now that other skills in the Healing line aside from WoH have been buffed, going full healing is pretty essential. Zuranthium 10:11, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never said ZB was just as good at redbarring. It obviously isn't. However, using SoA and SH correctly can prevent more than WoH heals for, especially in RA. Not to mention, RoF is a pretty intense heal against damage casters, especially eles. The biggest problem with prot bars is the lack of efficient hex removal, but RA's a coin-flip anyway. ···  Danny So Cute   19:28, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, not to mention that a Mend Touch on a full prot bar heals for well over 150 easy. ···  Danny So Cute   19:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * woh heals for between like 90 and 190. for SH to stop that, it would have to take between 3 and 9 hits in 9 seconds to get the same heal per energy, which for an above 50% woh is doable, but 9 hits in 9 seconds is quite a bit. for soa to stop that damage, it would take between 6 and 8 hits to reach that mark. in a 4v4 arena its quite difficult to get someone to stay on a target long enough to make it worth it, which makes me agree with zur in that respect. SoA is a waste in RA, but shielding hands is fantastic, because when everyone is sitting on you (the monk), soa will more time then not prevent 9 or more hits, making it well worth the energy. oops wall of math :( Gringo 19:33, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * but SH only needs to stop like 5 hits to match Patient. 6 hits is about what it takes for SoA - not as efficient, but meh. And Reversal can nail 140 easily. ···  Danny So Cute   19:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow there's a lot of badness here. First off - "using SoA and SH correctly can prevent more than WoH heals for, especially in RA." - This makes absolutely no sense. These skills are not "especially good" for RA; there are less opponents in RA. Out of any area of Guild Wars their effectiveness is pretty much the WORST in RA. WoH heals for 215. SH and SoA are not going to reach that level most of the time. Plus, their recharges are longer (and for SoA it's also interrupt bait). Patient Spirit is spammable and a 1/4 cast. Vigorous Spirit is also spammable and a 1/4 cast (and can heal for even more than WoH over time). On a ZB bar if your ZB gets d-shotted, you're probably screwed. A WoH bar can still survive without WoH.


 * Also - "not to mention that a Mend Touch on a full prot bar heals for well over 150 easy." Where are you getting this from? Not true at all. Mending Touch heals for the same amount as Patient Spirit (IF it removes two conditions). And, again, it's a slower cast and longer recharge so that makes it inferior. Plus, you should be wearing all +15 AL while under a condition. It doesn't matter if conditions are on you, other than Daze which can be bad...but again that's why a pure heal bar is better. You can still use Patient Spirit, Vigorous Spirit, and Sig Rejuv while dazed and lower your chances of being interrupted. Zuranthium 00:28, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dear zurie, drwaing DW + crip + degen onto yourself with no prot or way to remove it is a surefire way to get yourself killed (You DO realize DW results in -20% healing, right?) GJ thinking that patient alone is going to be able to powerheal your way through daze, degen, DW and that war/assa/fire/earth ele pumping you. you've ALWAYS championed horrible builds and there's no evidence that taking a year off fixed that affliction--TahiriVeila 02:54, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're completely wrong, yet again (and I love how you try to add random, incorrect insults to your argument). A pure heal Monk is going to have 95 Armor while under a condition. It also has Balanced Stance and Shield Bash (or Bonetti's Defense). Keeping Vigorous Spirit on yourself and using heals is indeed enough to survive. You don't need to remove the conditions. DAZE is indeed problematic but having Mending Touch doesn't really help much...it takes 1.5 seconds to cast it while Dazed so you likely aren't going to remove it anyway. It's best to stop the Daze before it starts (Shield Bash the attack skill that causes it) and then use 1/4 second casts if you DO get dazed. Unless your total glad points is higher than mine (which would be Rank 9), I suggest you try to lay off the inane personal attacks when trying to debate. You have absolutely no amount of clout. Zuranthium 08:04, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry man, I guess r6 glad r8 commander and topping out at r36 on the HB ladder means I have no understanding of how 4v4 play works. You're right, I must suck--TahiriVeila 17:11, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I'm not saying that running small prots is necessarily BETTER than speccing full heal. i'm saying they BOTH work. Doesn't seem unreasonable to have two different build pages for a woh arena monk, one that plays with small prots and one that doesn't :< --TahiriVeila 17:15, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * you are not glad6, and you botted r8 commander. gonna tell him you're r11 next? Gringo 17:45, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually pal I am glad 6! You haven't seen me ingame in like 6 months? And i went fro r7->r8 off RR b/c r7 title was stupid, sorry pal I'll be more specific next time.--TahiriVeila 19:05, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

First step: WoH, Patient, Cure. Second step: I want Veil too.
 * and im r15! you actually aren't g6, and you told me on msn that you did commander 3/4 all the way up to 8. its cool how you lie tho :) if you want to defend a build, its better to talk about the build and not lie about in game titles. Gringo 03:24, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Third step: Bonetti's Defense + Dolyak ^_____^

Fourth step: Fit in condiremoval + SH/SoA/Guardian, or drop a skill to run both.

What's so hard? -- Chaos  -- 12:13, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ except I run Signet of Rejuvenation instead of Dolyak Signet. I don't like the movement reduction. Disciplined or Balanced Stance would work, too if Bonetti's isn't charged. [[Image:Shino sig.png]]20:39, 10 February 2010
 * Yeah, I vary between them all, but I like tanking with Dolyak, just need a quick estimate of the situation before hitting it. Mostly I can cast it safe, and if my team overextends then I let them suffer, but so far nobody has died because I've hit Dolyak at a bad time. -- Chaos  -- 20:44, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Pretty sure it would be retarded to not spec to get at least a five second guardian, and shielding hands is great too. pure healing wont accomplish much if you are getting fucked and cant to much to protect yourself -- Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 21:38, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^Fully agree with Angelus. To argue that Guardian is bad in the arenas shows just how bad PvX has gotten. Seems there was a similar argument a while back about taking Healing Breeze over Guardian (PnH arena monk page) because Healing Breeze is WOWREDBAR! Preventing damage is only part of guardian, it also prevents all of the negative side effects of attacks, and you can use it on OTHER PEOPLE! omg! my ele can't do anything about the ranger with Dshot training on her, GUARDIAN!  seriously, why is this even a discussion? 128.208.115.71 23:04, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * "pure healing wont accomplish much if you are getting fucked and cant to much to protect yourself" - That's what the Tactics spec is for. You get defensive abilities and more Armor from your shield. 5 second Guardian doesn't do a whole lot. It's better to spam Vigorous Spirit and Patient spirit. They won't get interrupted (hardly ever, at least) and the short casting time means that you can kite more. Your argument is a pretty clear indication that you're not well-versed as a Monk. Zuranthium 23:44, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It isn't a problem of the monk getting interrupted, it is everyone else on the team. Guardian prevents damage and interrupts on anybody, not just you.  Besides, just swap to a 20%ench prot staff to cast guardian, and it's longer than 5 seconds.  It is a pretty clear indication that YOU are not well versed as an arena monk. 128.208.115.71 00:11, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Being interrupted as a Monk is absolutely a problem. Also, switching out of Shield Set to cast anything means you are at -20 Armor. You want to stay in that set at much as possible. And, again, that 5 energy you are spending on Guardian is generally not going to be more efficient than casting WoH or Vigorous Spirit in the first place. Especially after you consider that you had to lower your Divine Favor spec to bring Guardian. ESPECIALLY after you consider that Guardian is more likely to get interrupted and also leaves you with less time to kite. There's a reason why the most successful RA and TA Monks have been going full Healing for quite some time. Zuranthium 00:39, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * ok cool, you have bstance and shield bash. awesome. so you honestly think its ok to just let warriors, sins, rangers, dervs, and paragons just shit on you all day with no blocking chance? im glad for you that you cant get knocked down, but i laugh when you think you wont need guardian, especially since you're a monk and will always get targeted first. the extra AL wont be enough to save you too long. ive played monk at pretty high levels of gvg and regularly play in RA. not taking guardian is just retarded. i also have a HUGE problem with you taking draw. are you serious about that skill choice? you say kiting counters damage, except you'll be drawing cripple onto yourself, along with numerous other conditions with no other way of removing them? not a great idea. you can still spec 8 into tactics, spend 12 in healing, and put either 7+1 or 8+1 into prot to get your 5 second gaurdian and strong shielding hands. you can still do this will taking bstance, patient, woh, and sig of rejuv. i think ive proven my point. i dont usually write walls of text but i cant believe you arent going to take some kind of prot. -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 02:07, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cripple is annoying but hardly insurmountable. If you draw cripple from a Cripslash Warrior, then it probably means they aren't attacking you. If they do start attacking you, just deal with the cripple until it wears off and be sure to Shield Bash their next criplash. As for the rest, an 8-spec Shielding Hands is not "strong". It is absolutely inferior to Vigorous Spirit. Guardian is better but it's not worth speccing into for either. You are dropping your Divine spec, so everything you cast is going to heal for less. Signet of Rejuvenation costs nothing and isn't a spell, so you can freely cancel-cast it to bait interrupts and it also can be used when you have Backfire/Shame on yourself. I suggest reading the conversation here between Divine Ambassador and myself - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/monks-vs-deep-wound-t10425007.html . Zuranthium 09:39, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * He actually makes decent points. -- Chaos  -- 15:20, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * me or zur? -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 16:45, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, saying Guardian must be brought is not a bad point, but I meant Zur. -- Chaos  -- 16:49, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

tbh, why are we still discussing this? everyone knows Amity is the best monk arena elite ever. ···  Danny So Cute   00:22, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Requesting SS of 10 wins with an Amity monk. Spaggage  talk  00:48, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll do it soon. Amity/Pacifism is so cute. :> ···  Danny So Cute   00:50, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ^__^ Spaggage  talk  01:06, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Link soon please. Oh and high end monks prevent damage....Angelus is correct--<font color="#b22222"> X  02:26, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * High end monks also redbar, tbh. wot's an infuus? ···  Danny So Cute   04:01, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wots Patient Spirit, wots WoH, wots Signet of Rejuv etc --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 12:53, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * yes yes yes we all know but the point is Protection is needed (guardian, hands ect) and not just heal...surpised you didn't pick up on that.--<font color="#b22222"> X 19:27, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, it really isn't. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 19:35, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing matters, you can monk 60% of the games with WoH and Patient alone anyways ;o -- Chaos  -- 19:41, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * While it's not NEEDED a partial prot setup works just as well in the hands of a competent player as a full heal setup in the hands of that same player. We should just set up two different woh arena pages, one for full spec heal, one for partial prot.--TahiriVeila 19:43, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The difference is like 1 or 2 skills =/ -- Chaos  -- 19:47, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ranger/hammer bars differ by one skill on average, yet they all play very differently--TahiriVeila 19:48, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * make two templates i guess, but i still cant see how you can justify entering RA without at least guardian on your bar. -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 20:14, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * gogogo! [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 20:32, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * the difference is in playing style....totally different.--<font color="#b22222"> X 21:47, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like s screen shot of a 25 consec (even if it is on sync) with a redbar monk. Could just make a page for a redbar monk and get it vetted. Hopefully not everyone is as bad as the participants on this page, and it won't make "excellent" status without prots. 128.208.115.71 07:23, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Just accept that the RA monk meta is what it is. It's often hard to wrap your head around the way builds refine themselves over time down to the bare minimum. How many thousands of glads has Ninefingers farmed in RA with a derv healer that has no prots, no condition removal and no hex removal? Monks are pretty much the same way now except with a little more utility. -  Zero .Six   13:59, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * cool paragraph bro -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 14:32, February 12, 2010 (UTC)