Archive talk:D/W Critical Scythe

hi danny - Athrun Feya  - 05:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * That one's still in trial and isn't nearly as strong, tbh. also has shitty bar. ···  Danny So Cute    05:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Protector's Strike isn't as good as Mystic Sweep in PvE. +30 bonus damage is good, and protector's won't trigger very often (and even when it does it's only +10 and a slightly faster attack). Also this will run out of energy pretty fast on a derv primary. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 05:59, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just run a Zealous Scythe and you should be fine, tbh. ···  Danny So Cute    06:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Where's my Wounding strike? Also, redundant name is redundant. 128.135.88.213 06:26, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

You're all shitters, basically pasted my version over wth was here. - Athrun Feya  - 14:31, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Needs better name. Critical Scythe sounds like the Sin build. ···  Danny So Cute    16:02, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * also, wtf@ no dwarven stab? ···  Danny So Cute    16:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Why use Dwarven Stability when it can be Soldier's can be maintained already?


 * Its an enchantment, and it lengthens a very good stance. I rest my case. BTW, why doesnt this bar make use of the stronger melee attacks in tactics?--Ipsen13 01:45, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can't actually maintain, but its about ~1s gap. Personally I don't think its worth for that (but its already dropped in variants if you think it is) - Athrun Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 01:54, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * sorry, forgot to signOrphus 16:49, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * name is fine, accurately describes what it does. There's a big clue in the name which shows you its not a sin build. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 01:51, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The name does not describe the main idea of the build. It lacks the high crit chances of A/D CritScythe. Not to mention that "Fear Me!" is optional (any other maintainable shout(s) could be used instead). Its 2 votes vs. 1 now on name change vs. keep name. I dub thee "Imbaderv!" --War_Pig5 06:20, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I call it "Soldier's Dervish" in my build file for obvious reasons, but if you want to emphasize its relation to the Critical Scythe Assassin then that's fine I suppose--Shai Halud 15:59, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Fear Me
I'm only seeing "All nearby foes lose 3 energy" when I move my cursor over Fear Me. Might want to fix that if other people are having that problem so they know what exactly is maintaining Soldier's StanceCarolyne 01:41, February 28, 2010 (UTC).
 * We would if we could update the database.-- Relyk  talk  02:08, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Updating the skill database isn't in our hands, though we have our fingers involved. It always takes a little while. -- Chaos?  -- 10:45, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ahh.. that stinks Carolyne 15:31, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should be fixed now, though. -- Chaos?  -- 19:26, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Minor Scythe... why?
You have an (almost) maintainable 75% block stance, wouldn't a Superior Rune be more appropriate?Tester Tests Things 22:44, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * We tend to leave Minor runes mainbarred unless the build absolutely needs a higher level rune. After 12 points in your weapon there are diminishing returns for further investment anyway, iirc. Feel free to run with a superior rune if you want, since it is PvE. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 23:06, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I always ignore PvX's advice and put superior ruins anyway. ;o Cuilan 04:21, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's no need for a sup rune here. Mystic and Eremite's Attack are still +10 damage at 16 spec. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 10:30, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Soldier's Strike
I've been running Soldier's Strike instead of Mystic sweep for awhile now, and I like it better. You already have the IAS so the faster attacks are not as necessary, and you already are maintaining a shout to make the skill unblockable, which is extremely useful. It also does pretty hefty bonus damage at 12 Tactics for the same energy/recharge as mystic/eremite's sweep. I think it at least deserves a spot in the variants. J usting  6   06:20, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you do some solid math and prove that the higher damage is better than the faster attacks, then yes. -- Chaos?  -- 07:20, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * All comes down to what you want to spend your energy on. Mystic/Eremite's is a combo that provides somewhat of a spike in damage. It only looks significant on the Master of Damage, really. Besides costing 10 energy to use properly (in a bar that has no energy for such wanton usage), when you use the combo on higher armored targets, Mystic/Eremite's loses its luster. I find taking one large-damage skill compresses my bar a bit; even at the expense of compressing my damage, I have other options (like deep wound).--Ipsen13 22:46, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * can easily fix energy issues with Zealous Vow, which I think would be a better elite here. Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 18:22, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Soldier's Strike is currently better. Here's the Math: +34 > +10. The consensus I see here is that the unblockability and bigger damage spike is worth the extra fraction of a second. Its a case of spikes & blocking having more of an effect on the game than slight differences in theoretical DPS mathematics. Mystic Sweep's added damage is also dependent on an enchantment that will not be up 100% of the time. --War_Pig5 11:14, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Uhm, pretty sure that if you are gonna run this, you will at least have Strength of Honor, and possibly orders, all of which make Mystic Sweep a generally better choice since 3/4 activation (ontop of 33% IAS) > an 4 more damage and unblockability. Ofcourse if you are going into an area where blocking is common, it's a good trade. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 07:44, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comparison
How does this compare to the a/d crit scythe builds? Aliceandsven 21:27, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably better. D, A/D, and W/D were all pretty close in dps. Each primary has different factors to provide their large dps's; Dervs have runes, sins have crits, and warriors have AP. Now that dervs have an option to up the crit rate AND keep up IAS, they're probably marginally better.--Ipsen13 22:33, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * A/D builds have better energy for the attack buff skills. Cuilan 02:27, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

A/D builds, if done right can GUARENTEE a 80+% chance of criticals, which is way more than this build has to offer.--203.184.29.168 08:55, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * But Dervs look way cooler than sins. 129.10.232.83 19:59, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, 51% (with Critical Strikes, Way of the Master and Weapon Mastery). This has a 38% Crit chance. The Sin would manage slightly more damage, but the difference would be negligible against high-armored monsters (and in that case, AoHM wouldn't be worth taking over OoP). The Sin has better Energy-management and DW, but this can take "SY!". W/D is the best, imo, because your Attack skills are more spammable (the most damage, especially against high-armored foes), you have great Energy-management, you can take "SY!" and DW (Body Blow if you can manage Cracked Armor on another bar). In the end, though, they all use different primaries, anyway, and all three builds are great. ــѕт.  мıкε  21:57, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Most Assassins will take Critical Eye, this makes the crit chance a bit higher. For Example: @ 14 Crit Strikes and Scythe Mastery = 12:
 * 14% CH Chance due to Crit Strikes Attribute.
 * 31% CH Chance due to WoTM.
 * 14% CH Chance due to Critical Eye.
 * 17% CH Chance due to Scythe Mastery.
 * = 76%. Roarer 16:53, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not how they stack, it's 1 - (.86 * .69 * .86 * .83) = 57.6% chance to crit (against a level 20 target). Other percentages stack similarly, for example a 20% recharge wand and a 20% recharge offhand gets you 1 - (.8 * .8) = 36% chance to halve recharge time. Basically this means the more percentages you stack on, the less benefit you get out of each one. Necromas 17:08, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * .8 * .2 + .2 * .8 = 32%, actually, because you can't reduce recharge by more than 50%; if you could, then it would be 36% to at least halve the skill recharge. .2 * .2 = .04 = 4% chance to quarter it. ــѕт.  мıкε  17:43, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except the 4% of the time it would quarter the recharge, it will still halve the recharge. Necromas 18:29, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Does Asuran scan + aura of holy might stack?, when I've been using this It doesn't seem to have any effect when both used.

Critscythes rely on crits to give big block chance and big crit boosts, this gets slightly smaller crit boosts, but has the greater scythe damage, and can spam SY. As an added bonus, if you aren't absolutely terrible you can ignore the mainbarring of the minor scythe rune and take a sup to be manly. This version is less prone to enchantment stripping than the assassin version, but is instead prone to stance removal. Both builds are situationally good, it just depends on where you are taking them.

The only significant disadvantage I can see with this is no deep wound. Simple answer is run an imbagon with merciless spear, you have your deep wound back. Not as effective at spamming the condition, but can still spike out tougher targets. Napalm <font color=#1874CD>Flame <font color=#000000>contributions  <font face="Arial" color="navy">13:19, 7 July 2010 13:19, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * So why isn't this done on a W/D? A W/D can rune Tactics, and Strength is more useful than Mysticism. --[[Image:Jimp.jpg|19px]] <font color="#00aaff">WhiteAsIce 00:48, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why would you? D/W has a much, much, MUCH better energy pool to pull from and you can still pull strong damage with Aura of Holy Might + Asuran Scan; while you can get the benefits of actually USING /W for "SY!". <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 19:29, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The War can fully maintain the stance with a major tactics rune, and also has more armor than a Derv. Energy shouldn't be a problem if a Zealous scythe is used, and a staff of enchanting is used to cast AoHM. --[[Image:Jimp.jpg|19px]] <font color="#00aaff">WhiteAsIce 09:42, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Zealous Vow+Frenzy/Drunken Master> the elite used in this build. Soldier's Strike also seems a bit of an odd choice. 1/4 quick attacks are always the way to go when spamming. Eremite's, Mystic, Protector's. You can still run Fear Me to achieve more critical chances, but attribute spread would be better. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 09:50, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Energy would be huge problem even with a zealous scythe. you obviously have never played a warrior for too long
 * ...Er... What? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 02:14, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Innovations
I've found "save yourselves" pretty much useless without For Great Justice and if "Fear Me" is the only shout you have then keeping it up can be precarious if not impossible. Trying to use both Fear Me and Save Yourselves is utterly ridiculous without For Great Justice as you need to keep up a shout for your IAS. I've made some modifications with this in mind, but I'd like to see asuran scan made optional as I replaced it and SY! with Dwarven Stability and To the Limit! and that works great. However, I know how much you people love Asuran Scan so I'd rather leave that up to you. Might want too incorperate advice from variants section into the skills section since the build as it is or was was very unreliable in battle.--Shai Halud 15:51, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * On second though, AoHM might be more expendable than AS--Shai Halud 17:09, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Asuran scan might be something you use sparingly, against bosses and such. It's pretty devastating with high damage attacks, so it's really no secret why you see it on a number of pvx bars.  As for the enchantment, I agree that it's expendable.  Self enchanting in general seems to suck for melee in pve.  For an optional shout outside of fear me, consider I am stoppable for an armor boost that also triggers the ias of soldier's stance.74.61.39.33 22:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

As it is on the page this build doesn't really work. It needs more tweaking. Im amazed that it was voted great. Your down 20-30 energy before you attack once, and no mysticism means you are not getting any returns when your enchants go off. If you get everything going right then you'll do amazing damage and be well defended on paper, but that won't happen too often in real time. Especially if your in a fast paced group.

Dear person who reverted the build
You just lowered the DPS by quite a bit. I'm sure it was a mistake. Cuilan 23:18, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Im Sure taking "SY!" and Zealous and not being a bad player, using zealous sweep on multiple foes and wielding a zealous scythe yields the same DPS and has SY.--GWPirate 23:31, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Wrong. Having more energy to spam everything and not needing to hit multiple foes is higher DPS. The build's main purpose is DPS, so add some variant information bellow if you want SY. Cuilan 23:46, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're not hitting multiple foes with a scythe you are doing it wrong. <font color="Black">Frostels 23:48, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're playing PvE, you'll know you'll be hitting single foes quite often. Don't pretend it doesn't happen. The build currently as it is doesn't have as good energy as the reverted version. Cuilan 23:54, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * your never going to have good energy keeping soldier stance up--Christmas sig.jpg talk  03:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

what about...
soldier's strike as a variant? Synergyyyyyy it doesn't attack faster, but deals high + damage. &mdash; Scythe   23:10, 31 Dec 2010 (UTC)
 * Could have sworn it was there, but it was removed. Cuilan 16:55, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Definitely Fell from Grace
The recent update changed Aura of Holy Might from a damage addition to something that does damage when enchantments are removed, and as AoHM is the only enchantment on the build, that makes the skill a wasted slot on it. The condition for Eremite's attack also changed to enchantment removal, Asuran Scan has changed to increasing hit rate rather than damage...Zealous Sweep actually arguably does its role in this build better now that it adds Andreniline too, but either way we're talking half a skillbar down from the get-go. 98.24.120.192 03:20, 20 February 2011 (UTC)