Build talk:A/any Shadow Theft Daggers

mergeWillarddog (talk) 16:41, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If we keep shadow theft as the main bar and add a way of the assassin variantbar with SY/Scan/IAU. --Krschkr (talk) 00:59, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd keep WotA as the Mainbar and add Shadow Theft as a variant. WotA gives you two more PvE skill slots, which is very valuable. --Xanshiz (talk) 01:39, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It gives one more PvE skill slot.


 * I personally don't even run a third PvE-only as a standard. But I could fit in IAU over golden phoenix strike. I personally find SY to be overrated on melee players with heroes. The heroes often aren't in range anyway. For the rare cases you actually want SY AND Scan AND IAU you could then switch to the lower damage WotA utility variant. --Krschkr (talk) 11:48, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Why not run 12+1+2 and 12+3 for constant 20 points in both attributes? Or is there another reason its 12+1+3? Parcel45 (talk) 13:18, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * With 16 critical strikes the attribute buff upon renewing shadow stealth with its own buffs is 6, so dagger mastery will be at 20. I personally don't think that's really to be preferred over 15/15 though. --Krschkr (talk) 14:22, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Apart from merging this with A/Any Dagger Spammer, this build has one niche that can elevate its damage even further, albeit at the cost of a subjob. Shadow Theft increases attributes by 6, meaning /E and any of the three conjures would add 14 damage at 3 base air/water/fire. Hardly a good reason to give up Save Yourselves, but imo it should be considered if not only as a niche where dps matters more than anything else. --Rainemard (talk) 19:43, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This elite increases the pool of available optional skills substantially, at least in theory. Let's start adding optional skills by secondary profession and see what it ends up looking like. Sonofthort (talk) 19:55, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Completely agree, there's a ton of possibilities with this elite skill and I'd love to see a list of funky options that weren't available before. Suggestions are welcome! --Rainemard (talk) 06:18, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's create a Shadow Theft guide and get this build page going. Most likely, a small set of skills will be optimal in most situations. A guide will supplement the main page nicely though (I imagine some of the more funky options will be viable in 4/6 man setups). It could take a while to explore the build space/all the combinations, and we'll use the guide as a sandbox. When we find something main-page worthy, we'll have a discussion about updating the main page. I want to make sure we have a build page which players can reference for the time being. The options provided now are already well supported by passed vetting/do not introduce new concepts. If we need a better system for measuring builds, lets work on creating it, and then we can go back and re-test establish concepts. This page looks good to me as-is, but we need to add a link to the guide in the notes section. Sonofthort (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Created something: https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Guide:Shadow_Theft. It's not much yet, but maybe gets the ball rolling. I have some more ideas about 4/6 man setups which I'd like to start testing. Sonofthort (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Unsuspecting Strike
Returns overall higher dps than jagged strike, while still being shorter recharge than fox fangs. On the downside it's not 1/2s, and the higher energy cost may be an issue depending on secondary skills. - - Ruinette (talk) 23:46, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Wild Strike
...and/or Wild Blow should totally be listed as an optional. With a meta hero team, miss hexes, blinds, and block enchantments are usually removed quickly, so an unblockable stance removal is enough to drop Asuran Scan. Obviously that's useful when you're lacking in PvE slots. Wild Blow can be used at any time, which is good if you hadn't just used a lead attack, but MOST of the time this shouldn't be an issue. If Shadow Theft is on cooldown, you can just switch target. As for Wild Strike's advantages, it does more damage, has a shorter cooldown, and doesn't require a secondary (handy for skill capping). Houroftheowl (talk) 19:59, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I think Wild Blow makes sense as an optional skill (especially since there is less room for PvE skills on this bar). Wild Strike suffers from requiring the lead attack to make contact however. DeletedUser100425457 (talk) 14:09, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * (continue...) At any rate, both skills are already listed as optional skills on the page. DeletedUser100425457 (talk) 14:18, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

"Fear Me" to further increase DPS
So I've been having a hard time in choosing the 2nd optional Utility skill as most of them just seemed underwhelming to me (can't take Demonic Flesh with "Save Yourselves" for example). Instead I found that "Fear Me" not only increases overall DPS with its crit chance bonus even with only 3 points of investment in Tactics(futher increased to 8-9 points with Shadow Theft), it's also very easily maintainble so long you keep attacking and it also has a minor bonus of reducing mobs energy by some points. In addition to that it makes energy management even better since you crit even more and therefore can take Unsuspecting Strike variant and almost never have energy missing to use it. From the DPS tests i did i managed to get a total of about 10% increase of DPS from ~19k(over 180 seconds) to ~21k (over 180 seconds). Also since it's a shout it basically doesn't interrupt your chain or attacks at all, and considering the fast attack speed of a sin with daggers, the downside of crit chance bonus applying to stationary targets only is close to non-existent in pve. That's however my opinion, and would be happy if you guys test it out yourselves and say your opinion too... Buismor (talk) 19:49, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Bestial Fury
Why Bestial Fury and not Critical Agility for IAS? --CzanOfTheWood (talk) 22:25, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It is unstrippable and saves a PvE only skill slot. That said, critical agility is still a fine alternative. --Xanshiz (talk) 00:48, 13 January 2021 (UTC)