Archive talk:Team - 3 Hero Spiritway

Um....the last bar has reclaim essence and BoC and Armor of Unfeeling.....but only 1 spirit. Seems like a waste. 19:38, 22 June 2009
 * From GWW: This skill affects the health loss from spirits such as Shelter and Union. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  19:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So it's bugged? Build was changed [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 19:59, 22 June 2009
 * I'm still not liking that third bar. Those three spirits will blow up instantly with a full minion wall.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 22:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ^. Tbh, the only way to really keep those spirits up is with Reclaim Essence (which is meh on heroes), or AP (which is shit on heroes). I think you'd have to just use Resto spirits for any type of defense. Communing spirits just die too fast. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 22:20, 22 June 2009
 * What? Spirits won't blow up with a full minion wall. The three of them put together will result in the entire team taking less damage, taking MORE less damage, and dodging 75% of attacks. They don't need to last long, just enough to survive the full brunt of the aggro, then you kill them and win. Reclaim Essence is NOT bad on heroes, you just fail at using it. Seriously. It works perfectly. -- F enix 01:56, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Karate Jesus, have you actually used the build? I'm assuming no, since apparently you think it's bad, when it really isn't. First of all, I don't know what you do wrong, but when I run reclaim essence on heroes, they use it perfectly. I've been able to do HM missions and vanquishes with it, absolutely no problems. Even if the 3 spirits die fast, they prevent enough damage for your party to stay in very high health while key enemies die. I've never played a h/h build that was able to stay very well alive vs. a group of margonites and a group of tormented creatures in hard mode, until now. Without those 3 spirits, my party would have wiped in seconds. If the build is failing for you, then you must be doing something seriously wrong. --XArkantos
 * Read my responses on your other build. And btw, I like the idea of a spiritway build and I've been running some things that are similar (just trying shit out), so you and Fenix don't need to be so defensive and buttbuddy-like. Defending a build is one thing, but having your ego wrapped up in it is another. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 20:21, 23 June 2009
 * We're defending the build because you're claiming that it doesn't work well, when it works perfectly fine for us. Your heroes have the same AI as our heroes, so there's obviously a problem at your end. And where the hell have I brought my ego into this? --XArkantos 04:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To be fair, he's not saying this is bad at all. In fact, he's actually giving devently constructive critisism :> Brandnew 11:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ I really do want this to work. I'm messing around with the same things you are, trying to make a spiritway build work really well (again, because I love the idea). My point was that you and Fenix are overly defensive of your work, which makes it seems like your collective egos are wrapped up in it. Just defend your work with specific examples. Saying "ours works" when others have obviously tested it and it has not worked isn't a good enough explanation. Isolate the heroes, work on them, and tell me honestly what is good (and bad) about this build. Just be fair, honest, and tone down the assholeryness and we'll listen. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 16:02, 24 June 2009
 * First of all I'd hardly call it 'our work'. We made the base of the build, the community helped out and we changed many things. But screw that, since my ego is wrapped up in it I'm just going to say the community didn't help, this is all my work, you suck, I rule, and this build is the best build ever. I'm not trying to be an asshole, but the majority of people who have tried this build say it works. I just don't understand why you and danny are having problems when many others aren't. It doesn't make much sense since all hero AI is the same. Everything I'm saying is honest. I have no reason to lie to random people on pvx to make my build look better. When I say that the heroes use reclaim well, they use it well. When I say union/shelter/displacement are up for long enough to make a big difference, it means they're up long enough to make a huge difference. In the end, lying about a build is just going to make you (not you personally) look like an idiot, which is why I'm not lying about the build. --XArkantos 19:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol, did you even read what I wrote? Like Brandnew and Pika said, I'm trying to be fair to this build. I'm telling you the problems that I and several other people have found. If you don't want to address them, then don't....but again, I'm just trying to help. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 19:29, 24 June 2009
 * Yes, I read it. What I want to address is why a couple of people on pvx are having problems, while everyone else who has tried the build and commented about it on guru have not had these problems. I asked you before, how do your heroes use reclaim essence wrong? What do they do that makes the use wrong? --XArkantos 19:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As I and Danny have both already said, heroes will often use reclaim quickly after casting the spirits or not in time to recharge the spirits. Sometimes they're just sporadic with the way they use RE. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 19:35, 24 June 2009
 * Fair enough. What I want to know is this: out of everyone I've discussed the build with, you two are the only ones having this problem. Pretty weird if you ask me. --XArkantos 02:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've tested this build too, and seen the same thing happen. Drahgal Meir 03:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a simple and effective build capable of handling almost any high-end areas effectively thanks to the sheer swarming power of two spirit spawners and a minion master. It came handy in UW normal mode where me and a spiritway team could handle one side of the attackers during the Four Horsemen, while the rest of the team took care of the other side. --81.183.138.250 17:14, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to change the SoS hero into a necro? I find that it's easier for energy management.

Testing
Still testing and tweaking builds. Vanquished some zones on Shing Jea (which doesn't say much about the effectiveness) with ease. Managed to do Abaddon's Gate HM in 10 minutes flat (would have been 8 1/2 - 8 if Abaddon didn't have about 100 health after he was unattackable) with no deaths. Personally I've never heard of a general h/h team complete the mission HM in under 10 minutes, so I'm impressed. Someone managed to complete Ruins of Morah HM in 6 minutes with this build. Someone even managed to vanquish Rhea's Crater with a similar build with 1 human/3 heroes (no henchmen), and they said it would have probably been easier to do with this build. Feel free to test the build out, and leave comments here. --XArkantos
 * I Did Ruins of Morah this build without the necro (replaced by Morghan) in 4 minutes and 13 seconds. Abbadon's Gate in 12 minutes about. (was Bad) And vanquished Rhea's crater fourman with this build (used consumables though) So i would say it works. ;) Master Elros 21:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

So far the current build (with Ritual Lord) has returned very good performance. I would probably rate this a high score and I especially like the fact that it works with my physical damage characters (e.g. warrior) better than the current discordway does with barbs and high level splinter weapon. I like this more than I like discordway. DarkSpirit 16:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

WoQ on communing Rit?
Doesn't keep spirits up as well as Ritual lord, but it's still decent and provides nice support for the rest of the team as well (Sorry if I doubled posted, I got confused with the redirects >.>) 76.206.237.236 20:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Would probably be a decent alternative, but I'm guessing heroes are absolutely terrible at using WoQ.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would sincerely doubt that heroes use WoQ appropriately; however, it has a long duration, so they may end up using it on all three heroes. I'll test it out later and see what happens. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 20:35, 23 June 2009

Empathic Removal
Conditions/Hexes could make things dicey. Empathic Removal on the MM seems like a good idea. Or at least switch out Spirit Light for MBAS. Syphonus 14:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree, there seems to be no condition removal which is bad. I also switched Rip Enchantment on the MM for the new Masochism.DarkSpirit 17:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * ER does work well in the MM elite slot. The Z-mission was Hell's Precipice so I ran this with my Moebius 'sin. I rushed through it pretty fast and only one time had to pull back because of conditions -- the burning was rarely an issue, even when I pulled multiple groups.  (I was also running a nerfed build -- I only have one rit hero so I had to convert a necro for the resto slot).  I'll have to try this out against a heavy hex area and see how that works. --Dfscott 18:55, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

minion bomber
you allready have a spiritwall...there is no reason to take a minion bomber. Illoyon 03:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * .....Why not? Minions bomber>PvE.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone just fails at being a Ritualist. Spirit walls made from the Communing spirits are absolute shit and were phased out a very long time ago as a useful tactic.  They are there for their actual effects and nothing more.  [[Image:Benjammn311Sig5.png]] 04:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

i've only used the two ritualists (been doing HM NF missions where you need specific heros) and it's still worked great. does the MM really make it that much easier? Sir Nothing 00:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * They play off each other... more minions + more spirits + summons/EVAS = overwhelmed/confused mobs.
 * yeah, i've been VQing now using all 3 and they work greatt :) except i for some dumb reason decided to put SS as the MMs elite slot since it has 10 curses, and i think it does a great job:) like having an ss and MM. someone else wanna try it and let me know if it works for them or if i'm just dumb? kthnx lol Sir Nothing 05:16, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Mark of Pain
As a variant on the MM? It's always pwnage if you have a MM, about just as good as Barbs. Too bad it won't trigger on spirit attacks. 212.45.32.214 07:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

VQQ
this kitten stomps 4-man VQ areas-just VQ'd a few nub cantha island places with it, no deaths. GG Flesh Atrophy "True stories are made up"   03:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * honestly, you can hench HM cantha areas, it really is no achievement whatsoever. 212.183.136.193 06:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 25 minute VQ of jaya. do that with henchmen?Flesh Atrophy "True stories are made up"  [[Image:VIM.jpg| 23px]] 16:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I bet I could do <20 with Discord. I'll bet whatever you want xD On a more serious note, this looks rather "Let's use the new buffs to Rits in ways that aren't intelligent but work anyway, because PvE is REALLY REALLY hard to beat!" On a side note: rating builds with single vanquishes is just like rating a PvP build with RA, don't do it. [[Image:Goodnight LA mcsig.png]] 07:50, 2 July 2009

Grenthway
should be this build's name. Atomisk8115 01:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, goin through a vanq with this, I see 2 problems (neither are too big and mainly my fault for being lazy). first, if you go around a corner too fast, the rits tend to put up the spirits behind a wall. Second, sometimes the minions go too far ahead and bodyblock stuff, and the spirits end up idle. Obviously these can both be fixed by flagging, but aside from that, this is amazing, and has replaced sabway for me Atomisk8115 01:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

hex removal is the biggest draw backFlesh Atrophy "True stories are made up"   01:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Im assuming the hexes are supposed to be thrown down on minions, and after playing with sabway as a warrior for atleast 50 vanqs, it just doesn't work that way. I also bound every key that i need to macro, works like a charm now.
 * forgot to sign in Atomisk8115 06:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hex removal is the biggest drawback in ALL hero-based team builds, due to the fact that Rits and Necros having no primary hex removal. If you have to flag for your build to be effective, is it really effective? [[Image:Goodnight LA mcsig.png]] 07:54, 2 July 2009
 * the flagging is to prevent hero wiping, because all hero flagging is like that (cyndr to prevent kitten stomping 7/8 ppl)Flesh Atrophy   [[Image:Epic_VQ.jpg‎ | 20px]] 14:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Archive:Rt/Me SoS Restoration Rit
i saw this build and thought it might be a better version to use as the sos rit? i'll try it out in my next vq Sir Nothing 04:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a little worried about that build -- how good are heroes at using FoS? I'm not keen on my hero casting it at the wrong time and wiping out one of my defensive spirits. --Dfscott 18:59, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

minions...and defencive spirits
just a quote...

Efficiency GREATLY reduced when accompagnied by an Minion Master in AoE heavy areas : only a couple of AoE spells on the minions and the spirits WILL die. 95.33.5.53 21:54, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Without the minions they'd probably cast on the spirits directly, too. win-win. Athrun [[image:Athrun_Sig.gif]]Feya  21:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And, even if the defence is used on the minions, it's still damage reduced that would come around to your party eventually. Life Guardian 22:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

So...
Any reason why this beast of a hero setup wasn't ever moved to the voting stage, and instead is being tossed to the trash? It's pretty ace. Mithr4ndir 04:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * it actually works veryy well. so the BKs who put it here obviously dont know what 'innovation' is <font face="Old English Text MT" color="navy">Flesh Atrophy   [[Image:Epic_VQ.jpg‎ | 20px]] 23:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Making HM into NM
Use this hero build with an AP Spirit Spammer, something like this:

[build prof=Rt/A dead=8 com=11+1+1 cha=9+1 spa=8+1][Assassin's Promise][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Vampirism][Pain][Agony][Anguish][Spirit Siphon][Summon Spirits (Kurzick)][/build]

...and watch things die. This build is overpowered and the only reason for not accepting this, is for fear of ANet nerfing it. And it works great with my warrior too. DarkSpirit 20:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Hero build with 3 PvE only skills? That is indeed overpowered... But I would swear A-net alrdy have nerfed this.. if you get my point?Sebv2727 17:29, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think he's suggesting that the above skillset would be a good build for running with those heroes in NM. --Supernick530 06:59, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Spirit Siphon with low Channeling Magic?
I see it in this build and in the 8man build: Spirit Siphon with low Channeling Magic (4 in this build, 3 in the 8man build). What is the point? With 4 channeling, it only returns 2 energy per spirit? And with 3, it returns even less: only 1 energy! And that is while hoping the hero knows how to cast it. In my experience, heroes often cast it on a drained spirit, resulting in energy loss.
 * cool story bro Sir Nothing 01:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * agreed - Spending 5 energy to get 7 seems like waste of a cast. However, I'm not having much luck finding anything else to replace it with -- maybe Sundering or Ghostly Weapon? --Dfscott 03:31, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * How about replacing it with Spirit's Gift? DarkSpirit 05:35, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely a possibility -- it definitely fits the build. I'm a little worried about energy but I'll try it and see.--Dfscott 16:56, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * The other possibility is to replace Spirit Siphon with Mighty Was Vorizun.DarkSpirit 06:19, September 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Heroes seem to use it surprisingly well - I noticed one time after having Xandra summon some spirits I reflagged her and as soon as she'd moved she used SS again (presumably she knew that what was now the nearest spirit to her had enough energy to make it worthwhile) but it's true it works better when there are lots being created and killed so there's always one with lots of energy. Also, 3 is too low, really (you wouldn't take OoS with 3, would you?), you need to invest at least one point off something else (which should put it to something more like 8). 82.3.249.58 17:22, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Check the GWGuru thread. They have a lot of variants and alternatives that work for energy. The only problem is that you have to wade through the circle jerking to get to it. <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:25, 15 September 2009
 * jsut a quick question tht shdu probs be on admin board thing. how come not all spirits show level,health and armour? Exo Oo 17:47, September 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * After playing around with this slot a lot, I've started swapping in Weaken Armor into this slot most of the time. I use this with my assassin and even with only 3 curses, the 8 seconds it lasts is more than enough time to spike most stuff down, plus it helps the minions damage as well.  (BTW, not sure what's up with the strange formatting on Exo OO's comment) --Dfscott 03:08, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I changed the slot to optional since I think any of the above suggestions are better than Spirit Siphon.--Dfscott 18:28, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Minions and spirits
Minions are considered allies, so if a minion gets hit, is the dmg reduced by shelter and union? I thought I read that somewhere.. If so, Your spirits are dead in 2 secs82.73.139.17 14:08, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes and yes. Your spirits pretty much die in 2 seconds. Tbh, just use other spirits. That's what I do. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:10, 11 October 2009
 * Yea don't use the ritual lord guy, because a ritlord hero doesnt use his skills properly without microing and I - Hate - Microing Fleshcrawler Soban 23:04, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * Use Reclaim Essence. Heroes are surprisingly good with it. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">16:47, 30 October 2009

Why this build
Doesn't have the Hero tag ? Forgot to sign,sorry Lass 21:33, November 8, 2009 (UTC) (Lass)
 * It does now. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:36, 8 November 2009

Human Build
I was wondering what build would go well with this build? Warrior build would be great :D 24.16.96.202 18:21, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty much anything. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:43, 11 November 2009

SoS or reclaim essence
Which one would you guys recconmond?
 * SoS+SS = superior to nearly every other pure-ritualist elite-skill combination... which is really sad and makes painfully apperant how underused/underpowered 10+ other skills are.

Masochism
on the necro?
 * If you don't think you need the rez, it's worth it, but you may need an extra healer. <font color="crimson" face="trajan pro">Karate [[File:Candy!.png]]<font color="darkgreen" face="trajan pro">Jesus <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:01, 12 December 2009

Hench
which ones do you take with this build? Spaggage  talk  03:53, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ritual Lord Update
Do heroes use the new Ritual Lord skills correctly. If not this could seriously hamper the damage mitigation this build provides. Anybody tested yet? Irkm Desmet 10:31, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh i see someone changed Ritual Lord to Soul Twisting already. This was my first impulse too. Is this working with Heroes? Irkm Desmet 10:42, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Heroes don't use Ritual Lord at all, so you'll have to keep Soul Twisting. They're not all that great with it either, but it's kind of hard to mess up....so. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:50, 26 February 2010

Life
Having played around with this build, it seems as though heroes hugely misuse this, putting it down as soon as it recharges rather than in combat. Would a better choice be Weapon of Shadow/Warding? --Ghostwheel 03:38, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Update
Build is hawt now. 5-5-x amd remove all votes below 4.8 :> Life   Guardian  02:24, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's in great so it's fine (removed zyke's st. michael's though since it was based on an old version). <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 03:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Painful bond mainbar? Dok 22:50, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Heroes use it very poorly. They barely cast it, so it's only a truly effective option if you're prepared to put some attempt into balling foes, as well as microing painful bond. Life   Guardian  02:23, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are nine damage spirits, though. Even if the hero doesn't use it as intelligently as a human might, it'll still add some significant damage. Dok 16:57, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Archive:Team_-_Dual_Spirit_Spam ــѕт.  мıкε  20:07, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's for 2 humans, and it's worse than this anyways =\ Life   Guardian  20:16, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Replace 3rd hero? i still dont have my second ritualist hero,and dont want bother getting him,any good replacments?109.67.184.80 14:04, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably replace the SoS rit with an SoS necro. Life   Guardian  15:51, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Optional Elite on Last Hero
Don't get me wrong, SoGM is great and all, but Soul Twisting might be optimal if you actually want to move at a decent pace. Actually, even Rit Lord might be a good option, considering that there's really nothing on the bar except spirits, so the hero can't fuck it up.

Any thoughts? Oh, and the variants/optionals need to be cleaned up. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">16:25, 12 April 2010
 * There really aren't any problems with movement speed, and SoGM blows shit up. ST/RL would be a waste. I also don't see what's wrong with the optionals. Life   Guardian  16:51, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aegis. So, the hero doesn't have problems with keeping up? <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:01, 12 April 2010
 * Nope, no problems. My results might be different though, as ive been using it in places where you have to set up spirits and then pull shit into them. What's wrong with Aegis? Dual aegis is faggotry. Ofc, i guess enfeebling would be better overall, seeing as how melee rarely makes it past your spirit/minion wall. Life   Guardian  17:11, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * i dont see why aegis has been put there. hench have it if you're desperate to keep it up (which you dont really need to, as life says above). - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 17:24, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I run all Necros since SR>any rit energy management. I also drop SoGM for wanderlust. Docta Jenkins 21:50, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * My Rits never have mana problems. Do yours? Anyway Aegis is prety meh when you have such a huge wall of spirits and minions. SoGM doesnt really hamper your speed because it makes your spirits make big bams = kill mobs faster. By the time you get to next mob all your spirits should be recharged. ~Iggy
 * Or dead or still recharging, tbh. Dissonance lasts 26 seconds and recharges in 45. 30 seconds is already pushing it, tbh. If you had to, though, you could aggro groups and bring them back to the Spirits. >.> ــѕт.  мıкε  22:36, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Rits=stronger spirits=fast killing. Also, wanderlust is terrible. Life   Guardian  22:29, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * ups. An N/Rt doesn't have enough Attribute points to split into Soul Reaping, Restoration Magic and Channeling Magic effectively. ــѕт.  мıкε  22:36, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually it can. :> 10 Chan for Splinter. 12 Resto. There you just hit all the important breakpoints. Feel free to dump the rest of attributes into SR. Buuut you don't need heals on your heroes unless doing 4 man areas. 16 spec splinter/arage is still way better than 10 spec one. Oh and obviously spirits on 16 spec are godly. So if you want spirits go Rt primary instead of N. Ignore this if your comment was sarcasm. ~Iggy
 * You'll end up with very weak Spirits that way, but it's the Communing Rit I should have been talking about. >.> You could manage a Communing N/Rt (Soul Reaping and Communing only), but there would still be a pretty decent loss (+1+3), but not as bad as an N/Rt with SoS and Resto. ــѕт.  мıкε  11:12, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who are you? :o Also, i only bring mhenlo when i do most HM pve junk, and the little bit of partyhealing offered by my sos ownzzz. Life   Guardian  00:53, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Igz it seems both of us have been forgotten :( Docta Jenkins 01:04, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nuuhhh impossible we can't be forgottedz!!! >: --Myotheraccount 19:00, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Super igor? Life   Guardian  01:06, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe! And who are you? :3 --Myotheraccount 18:59, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

meta?
dont think so but may i am wrong. Illoyon 18:12, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not, although it really should be. Blows discord out of the water. Life   Guardian  18:15, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't tell that to Guru'ers. Apparently half of them use it. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:46, 13 April 2010
 * Yeah.. having just replaced their racway bars. - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 18:48, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Discord or spiritway? :o Life   Guardian  18:48, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you guys serious about it not being meta? o.o; Because out of all cookie cutters I ran so far this one worked the bestest. :3 I herd that more people use secondary rit with spirits + Discord though. Pretty decent setup too but this one is better. --Myotheraccount 18:58, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meta implies that it's actually used. Unfortunately, i don't think many actually use this, despite it's strength. Life   Guardian  19:00, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wtf. =/ Guess it's like Sorc using HP manastones in Aion; very effective yet for some reason few people do it. Oh well, there are always more narbs than good players so it's natural. Too bad they dictate the metas. :3 --Myotheraccount 19:06, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who cares about manastones when your characters can be just that pretty :p - <font color="SteelBlue">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya [[Image:Lau_bfly.gif]] - 19:10, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

How does the SoGM Rit fare with the long recharges and Energy costs? That's really the only thing keeping me from rating 5-5, tbh. Also, we should probably fix up Archive:Team - Spiritual Discord with these bars (or very close, at least). ــѕт. мıкε  19:50, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Recharges are fine. SoGM rit has the perfect amount of energy to cast all of his spirits. If you micro and precast them, he'll be back up to 10 energy to cast something else relatively quickly. Give the build a testrun. It's ridiculous how powerful it is. Note: I probably wouldn't use this exact setup with a physical. Better off killing shit from range. Life   Guardian  19:56, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only problem i sometimes have with the SoGM is that the hero will occasionally cast SoGM with only 1 spirit out. However, in the areas where you're not already precasting all spirits before agroing, there's not enough of a threat for the little bit of lost damage to matter. Life   Guardian  19:59, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ He's right. SoGM is fine. I had to run Soul Twisting+Armor of Unfeeling in Vizunah Square HM to get Masters, but that's not a great example considering the HUGE and constant mobs. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:03, 13 April 2010
 * Problem with Vizunah is that shit comes from both sides. You can't use minions as a tank for both groups =\. Could probably work if you put bone minions on the sogm or something. Life   Guardian  20:10, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, I did Masters HM pretty easily by just replacing SoGM with Soul Twisting and adding AoU. I literally didn't change anything else. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:19, 13 April 2010

Twisting
Has anyone tried Soul Twisting on the Communing rit? It would pickup the pace of action and certainly help with energy management. Unless of course, heroes start spamming the newly recharged spirits... Bleh. Anyway, I'd probably put it as a Variant atleast and call the "SoGM" rit a "communing" or "secondary" rit.  Minion  Excluded 03:08, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Read the sentence directly above your edit. ST works fine with the build, and heroes tend to only re-use a spirit once it dies, so you're fine there. However, SoGM is worth using most of the time, so it's probably not really anything to worry about. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">03:16, 15 April 2010
 * Yeah, I didn't read that post before I left the edit; but in tougher areas I think it would be of more use with the heavy prot spirits. But if this is setup for general play then sure, SoGM all the way.  Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded  03:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The defensive communing spirits are a massive waste. If you don't need them for kath, frostmaw, etc in HM, you don't need them anywhere. Life   Guardian  04:02, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Plus defensive spirits + minions is a big no no. Spaggage  talk  14:05, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ Your enemies should be mostly targeting the minions/spirits anyway, so you should be fine. The only reason I had to use Twisting was because I was doing Vizunah Square HM and shit just keeps coming from every direction there. That rarely happens anywhere else (unless you overaggro like crazy). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:21, 15 April 2010
 * You can overaggro like crazy! Just precast spirits and make sure you have a few minions. Shit will die seconds after coming into spirit's range. --Myotheraccount lolspam lollololol iz bored 15:26, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Srsly
You guys should add AP caller to the player slot. Works epicly with spirits. --<font color="HotPink">Iggy 's other account 15:34, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed it does, but this can be run by any player bar, so no reason to put it there. Life   Guardian  15:57, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spirits don't target so wouldn't AP run out? I still think Discord may be better/faster due to not having to precast spirits, but that's probably because I use 2-man discord to vq and my friend is already a spirit spammer. We still rush mobs without precasting spirits, yay balance =/ 72.94.247.39 21:22, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cast AP on shit that's about to die, then it definitely won't run out.--67.161.184.231 07:00, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Rit players
SoS is pretty much the only useful elite for human rits...so can someone tell me a build that fits with this hero team? Illoyon 16:08, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

If you want pure domoges (~133 DPS). Summon Spirits isn't strictly necessary, because 30 seconds isn't that bad, and you've got tons of Minions and other Spirits, too, so your own Spirits shouldn't die that often. Also, keep in mind that EBSoH doesn't affect Spirits, but it's good for minions and everything else, tbh. You'd probably take an N/Rt or N/Mo with you, seeing as you'll have an open Hero. If you want, you could drop Spiritleech Aura and Vampirism for Summon Spirits and something else (Aegis?). ــѕт. мıкε  16:31, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * 30 seconds is bad in general play; you don't want to hang around after every mob. Summon Spirits is a must, really. Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 17:34, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Heh, Spiritleech Aura is only an additional 17 DPS (with Vampirism and Bloodsong), and Vampirism is only 19, anyway. You also aren't going to be running any physicals that can really take advantage of GDW. Dropping something for Aegis could be useful. ــѕт. мıкε  18:03, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

For communing player...


 * 16 com, 13 (or 15) chan, 4 sp


 * If you trust the SoS hero to be the only one using painful bond you can open up an optional slot. If you do, you may also want to ditch channeling for spawning power and use boon of creation instead of spirit siphon but you will have weaker energy management in exchange for tougher spirits and different optional choices.

For channeling player...


 * 16 chan, 13 (or 15) resto, 4 sp


 * You'll have more energy available for your optional than the SoGM rit would if not taking painful bond.

The communing player will do significantly more damage but they each have advantages and disadvantages especially considering they replace different heroes.

For the third hero then take an N/Rt healer with blood support, or maybe a Rt/Mo healer with spirit channeling so you can bring hex removal and maybe even use rejuvenation as a pseudo tank (a high level PvE rejuv can have ~600hp and ~120 armor). Rt/Mo isn't really as bad as people might think because with spirit channeling it should never run out of energy anyways, the real disadvantage is it can't use necro spells and is more vulnerable to mesmers.

Not sure why you want to take EBSoH over summon spirits since the battle standard does not affect spirits and the bombers minions will attack slow and die fast. And even if you assume your spirits have time to cooldown between every fight, being able to heal and reposition them during the middle of a fight is very useful. Necromas 18:36, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and spirits are not the only useful option for a primary rit, destructive was glaive rits work pretty well in general PvE. Necromas 18:40, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I ran physicals with this... Was I doing it wrong? I mean henchies/minions while I was MoPing. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 08:52, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

SoGM survivor?
My SoGM hero definitely doesn't have the energy to spam those spirits.. yet survivor runes?
 * Uhh, mine has just enough to cast all of them with 45 energy, survivors, and a grand total of 546hp(sup communing, major vigor, no vitaes). Life   Guardian  05:38, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Primary rit bars
Needs bars for if the player is a primary rit. I do channeling, Xandra does communing, I have a minion bomber, so I think we should add a variant bar for another hero? Possible resto rit?
 * Optimum would probably be to use the bars as listed with an AP or a DwG on the player. Something along the lines of...


 * with some kind of high damage channeling skill and some random energy management skill. Life   Guardian  17:23, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been running an ER Prot hero in 8 man areas instead of a resto rit, which has been working well. I don't know if it's necessarily more efficient, though.--67.161.184.231 02:25, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's basically a massive waste to take an ER prot. You can do duncan HM with the listed bars and 1 monk hench; ER is just overkill. Life   Guardian  06:30, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * You got 4 PvE skills on your bar. Pro. --<font color="HotPink">Iggy 's other account 08:57, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i haven't seen pve skills in 10 days because i got perma'd. Life   Guardian  09:09, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I got an account. You're right, and the ER Prot is less capable at protting than a ST Rit with Shelter, considering how quickly mobs go down. However, the ST rit also seems like a bit too much in terms of defense, except in a few areas. What else is left to add as a 4th hero? Unless you AP call, but I feel like there's more DPS to be squeezed out here. --Insta111 09:13, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

speed
Someone please explain to me what i'm doing wrong. when i run these builds my team moves so damn slow. and not really that slow, but slower than if i were discording. isnt this supposed to be faster? <font color="#2E8B57 ">Siris / <font color="#000000 ">talk 05:22, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * okay, never mind, i tried it in a regular HM area and it works like lightning. just not for WiK riverside province area.
 * Basically, the harder the area, the more impressive this will be compared to discord. In easier areas, the time spent to set up spirits is a waste of time because everything dies so fast to discord. If you use it in areas with high hp values or heavy hex/condition removal(ie, slaver's exile HM), spiritway destroys because it can overpower the AIs healing. In WiK, this team should work quite well if you take the time to flag heroes apart and precast spirits while you're pulling. However, the abundance of pets, minions, and aoe spells might make this less effective than other options. Life   Guardian  05:46, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

This, Discordway, and 2/3 man
Just a few questions about speed and what to do.
 * 1. I'm a necromancer, if I solo, which build would be faster, this, discordway, or other? And in which areas? (discordway being faster in easier areas, etc.)
 * 2. I'm a necromancer, I have an elementalist friend whom I frequently play with and we want to speed through dungeons (NM and HM) and vanquishes 2 man, and maybe some elite areas like Slavers or DoA. Do we use this and another build, if so which, or do we go two man discordway with me AP caller and him spirit spammer, or other?
 * 3. Lastly, oh look. Another elementalist friend wants to join us, so now there's me the necro, and two eles. Same goal, dungeons, vanquishes, some elite areas. Which builds do we use?

Thank you for your time and on a last note, I know some areas like DoA are incredibly difficult to do HM (at least quickly), but at least a NM way of doing it would be fine. 71.162.231.62 07:29, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's hard to say what is the most effective in any given area and if i was to do so it would take forever. A general rule of thumb, as you've already stated, is that the harder the area, the less effective discord will be and the more effective spiritway will be. If you plan on doing NM(exceptions being harder NM areas like slavers or doa), i would suggest swapping out SoGM for Soul Twisting because the mobs won't last long enough for your spirits to recharge. Similarly, in 4 man areas, you would probably be better off with ST as well because mobs are small.
 * This build as is(h/h, 1 player) can do Slaver's with next to no difficulties in NM, and with a little bit of effort and calling can take out all of slavers in HM with forge being quite difficult due to the AoE. Considering that it is relatively simple to do with just 1 player(and you really only need 1 monk hench with the exception of forge), your friend could run almost anything, and heroes really wouldnt be too important. A 2 man discord might be more effective just because it doesnt have any setup time. Note that areas like slavers HM are near impossible with discord due to the large amount of hex/condition removals.
 * I rarely play 3 man, but a similar situation would probably be true as compared to 2 man. Since eles kinda dont have a lot of options that are viable in HM, having one run ER and the other run AP caller with lightning orb+chain lightning+air attune+GoLE, while you run SS would probably be the most effective option.
 * Do remember that for harder areas you will need to set up spirits before agroing which can be annoying when playing with other people(youll need to flag your heroes apart too). If you feel like just running in and blowing shit up there are probably better options, but spiritway is still amazing for 1 player and an effective option for more than 1. Life   Guardian  07:51, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * In #3, ER, SS, and AP caller, what are the other 5 heroes? Also correct me if I'm wrong but spiritway seems to be a minion bomber with dual spirit spam. Would it be effective to do 2 of us as dual spirit spammers with summon spirits for no down time, and the other ap call with 5 discords? If so, which discord would get cut? 71.162.231.62 08:02, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * necro is ap caller, ele is spirit spammer, 3rd ele can run anything, like ap nuker or something. the necro should have discordway and the ele have the second spirit spammer and a discord healer with blood bond and strip enchantment. If you really want to, the second ele can run the second spirit spammer, which you should bring a panic mesmer, or another discord if you want to.-- Relyk  talk  08:16, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * MB, 2 rits, some kind of hybrid healer, and maybe a mesmer? Kinda hard to theorycraft atm. I would suggest keeping the SoS as a hero or at least moving the 3 healing spells onto another hero because they are just so much better than a human at using them. I guess you could take over the roles of the spirit spammers, but the lack of runes kind of sucks. Not sure how well mixing discord and spiritway would work. You definitely wouldnt need 5 discords if you were to mix them, so probably get more healing/passive defense. Or just do what relyk said. Life   Guardian  08:22, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I use a merged Discordway+Spiritway build that makes use of more spirits to synergize with the restoration spells and less dependence on Discord, which means less dependence on a hex and condition being present on the same target before you can deal significant damage. Spirits also grant lesser dependence on minions and available corpses while Discordway debuffs make the resulting team build stronger.  http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:DarkSpirit/Build:Team_-_3_Heroes_For_Caster DarkSpirit 14:54, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Dwayna's Sorrow vs Shield of Absorption on MM
I still prefer the old Dwayna's Sorrow because, unlike Discordway which has 2 PwK and Life + 2 restoration healers, this team build only has 1 PwK and 1 healer.DarkSpirit 15:03, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * In Hard Mode; Prots>Heals. Depending on minions for random heals is also a bad idea.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 16:30, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, entering HM with hardly any heals doesn't seem to be a better idea either. Also there are times when you need party heals.DarkSpirit 02:23, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * This build can do almost every area of the game in HM with the bars listed here and ONE healer hench(Exceptions being areas you can't h/h and forge HM). You don't need more healing. Life   Guardian  02:26, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * You should try this in places with high aoe degen, your prots are not going help a single bit in those situations.DarkSpirit 02:28, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can fit Dwayna's Sorrow onto one of the rits without dropping your prots. Variant added to reflect this. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 02:33, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I did frostmaw's with this and only had ~2 deaths(no wipes), and that was because i didnt know where some of the popups were. Name somewhere else and ill go /afk through it. Life   Guardian  02:40, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * dwaynas sorrow sucks-- Relyk  talk  03:43, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you dont like Dwayna's Sorrow then add more party heals like Discordway for places with high aoe degen, rather than relying on just ONE PwK, without Life, and simply transplating Discordway MM into this build as it is without considering the other heroes in the team are different. At the very least, consider that even with more party heals, Dwayna's Sorrow is also a variant in Discordway.DarkSpirit 03:59, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not a "discordway MM". It's an MM bar that is extremely effective that happens to be used in multiple builds. The thing is, this doesnt need any more party heals. Life   Guardian  04:05, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * And in most easy areas I would agree with you, but I dont always stick to easy areas. And it is a discordway MM, go check it out.DarkSpirit 04:09, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Once again, it's a generic MM bar that happens to be used in discordway. And ocne again, this build can quickly go through the hardest areas of the game with ease with only 1 healer hench. Life   Guardian  04:22, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is the same MM bar as the discordway build with 2 more variant for the elite slot. Just because discordway changed their MM to use SoA instead of DS (because they already have enough party heals), doesn't mean this build should just follow without considering the rest of the team build is different.  No point arguing over terminology.DarkSpirit 04:32, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because it's used in discordway does not mean it was originally used there or intended for use with the discordway setup. It just happened to end up that way. It has no reflection on the other heroes in the party. This build also never had Dwayna's Sorrow listed. I would also think that i knew some of the motives behind bars, considering i put up both discord and spiritway. Link that will hopefully make you shutup. Life   Guardian  05:05, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the easier the content, the less useful the prots become. You've got it the wrong way round. Besides, when all your minions die from AoE and you get a burst of health, what happens after that for the next ~30 seconds while you wait for more minions to rise while you're degenning out? Hope a minion dies? I just wouldn't trust it to activate on time, don't see why you're so adamant it's so amazing. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 04:57, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes Dwayna's Sorrow is not the best party heal out there which was why it made sense for discordway to remove it from their build. But when there is aoe degen, the minions would also get it and tend to die when the team needs the heals.  Alternatively, bring more PwK like in Discordway or bring Life or other party heals.  The restoration spells in the build are great spike heals, but besides that PwK, I dont see any other party heals.  Speaking from someone who only brings ONE healer hench.DarkSpirit 05:03, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dwayna's Sorrow was added as a variant on the Communing Rit a few edits back. Prots are left on the MM because neither of the rits have room for the 3 prots. If you find an area where the prots aren't needed at all, go ahead and bring it on the MM then. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 05:07, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Heals on an MM don't work. The Ai prioritizes Death Nova>heals, so instead of healing them the hero will cast death nova on them, Life   Guardian  05:08, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually it does and Discordway used to have DS on their MM for most part of its history until about June 2010. Don't forget DS is aoe enchant, lasts for 30s and recharges much sooner than that.DarkSpirit 05:13, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Link that will hopefully make you shutup Life   Guardian  05:15, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately for you, we have already discussed this link to death on guru. Notice Jeydra build is for a caster and it works by slowly careful pulling and flagging, not a typical playstyle that most people are used to.:-)DarkSpirit 05:18, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would you stop already? DS is in the build as a variant, and is so without giving up the prots. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 05:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody said to give up the prots. PS and Aegis are still important.  As long as it is in as a variant, that has always been fine by me so I dont know what the commotion is. DarkSpirit 05:24, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately for you as well, i've been a part of said discussion(at least i think, i at least had the conversation with jeydra as testing was done for said thread). Notice that you don't understand how Jeydra plays pve because by no means is it slow and careful(unless necessary to be slow like in forge HM). Heroes are flagged apart so they don't get raped by aoe and spirits are microed as a group is pulled back to avoid overagro. This tactic is used for groups that actually pose a threat. In easy areas precasting spirits and pulling doesnt happen. SoA is actually even more important as a physical than as a caster. Life   Guardian  05:28, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

lol-- Relyk  talk  08:31, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody is saying the prots are not important, and I dont think anyone is saying heals are not important, otherwise we would be discussing pve 101. I suggest you look into EFGJack's dungeon heroes build which is even more effective than Jeydra's.  But still most people use discordway because they are too lazy to play like that even in the tougher areas.DarkSpirit 15:50, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * you realize thats rather pointless to link to since casters cant pull mobs and tank as easy or mop bomb them after balling-- Relyk  talk  22:33, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * who says casters cant pull mobs? All you need is a long/flatbow to do so.  There are more hero builds that are better meant for casters than for warriors.  I always get a chuckle whenever I see an AP Discordway warrior.DarkSpirit 02:51, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was talking more about the tank part than pulling-- Relyk  talk  05:21, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

If Jack's builds are so efficient; why aren't they on PvX? There are builds for casters/necros and paragon specifically. Why not warriors? Anyway, did you not notice Jack uses SoA when tanking anyway? I don't see where you're getting at. Minion  09:06, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like I have said many times before, I am not against prots and I use SoA myself. Notice that EFGJack customizes his build based on the area which would give better performance than a generic build.  Also you should look at a skill as how it fits into the entire team build.  Does it make sense to take SoA instead of DS?  The answer is, it depends on the situation.DarkSpirit 02:04, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * It always makes sense to bring soa, not so much for dwaynas sorrow-- Relyk  talk  05:09, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, it depends on the area and what you already have. Does it make more sense to bring lots of prots and SoA in an area that mostly degen and enchant removal?  The best skill choice is determined by the area and the rest of your team build, people who dont understand what skills are good in which area would always say skill X must ALWAYS be present which is not true.DarkSpirit 04:32, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * soa will always be good in hm. If you dont need soa to clear an area, you definitely wont need dwaynas sorrow. Give me an example of an area where this isn't true instead of arguing about it in the abstract. Besides, it's not really a pressing issue considering it's an optional on the second spammer.-- Relyk  talk  06:19, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dwayna's Sorrow is also an enchantment, so not sure where your reasoning is coming from.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 14:45, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Some questions on this builds
Hello everyone,

I was just watching some META-builds and I found this one.. Just looked trough it and some comments here on the discussion page.. Especially "This, Discordway, and 2/3 man"-discussion is interesting to me as I play necromancer myself alot. ^^

But I'm still having some questions, and I wasn't sure if this should be added to the same topic. So I'll leave a new message here.

1. - Do I need additional healing henchies? To do vanquishing/HM Mission for example. Take just some random 6/8-man area to vanquish. Do I need additional healing then or are these heroes okay without any? I usually play on my own so there's no thinking about other people. ^^ So any recommending about taking specific henchies?

2. - What's the best build to run with this? I know it depends very much on what area/HM-mission I'm gonna vanquish/complete, but just to know what works best. For instance a AP MoP Nuker, MM or just a nice SS build? I assume I should just run my own build (usually SS).

3. - Just one other question. I know it's already been asked but in some different way. As I understood discordway is much more effective in NM areas, but this spiritway is much more effective in HM areas? Can somebody explain this to me please. :P I just don't see why discordway being less effect (armor ignoring damage) vs. spirits which deal around 20/30 damage everytime. (Isn't that damage heavily reduced in HM area?)

Some questions I have. I know some of them are already asked/asnwered, but I just want to have the correct answer. I'm sure they are, but to my questions. Sorry so. Thanks in advance anyways for any answering!

82.168.185.27 21:36, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) In the discussion above, I believe it was said that you should need only 1 additional healer henchman.
 * 2) SS would probably be better here than an AP MoP Nuker. An MM wouldn't be a good idea since one of the heroes is already a minion bomber.
 * 3) Spirit damage is armor-ignoring. Also, the damage in this build is unconditional, and spirits provide additional distractions for the AI (alongside the minions). Groups with lots of hex/condition removal can prove difficult for discordway in some situations. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 21:42, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * any build works, as long as you have broken pve skills you will be fine. discord is armor ignoring, as are spirit attacks. the problem with discordway is it works great as long as you kill stuff. In harder areas, hex/condition removal are more prevalent and you have a harder time spiking enemies down. spiritway will work the same in any area because they are hard to kill, train enemies, and attack from a distance. This makes it easier to take down difficult mobs in hm-- Relyk  talk  22:02, July 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your very quickly answer! A different question on this. How about strong bosses in HM, like elementalist bosses? One AoE spell can instantly kill all the spirits and almost all DPS of your party is gone. Is this just spreading the heroes and set up the spirits? (Micromanaging) Usually I spread them a bit up and put PI on the ele-boss.. I'm sure it's the same, but just asking to be sure. Another question. Sometimes I'm playing with my brother. Should he just take discordway with him or any other build recommended? (He usually plays ritualist or warrior) Because double spirits aint possible.

82.168.185.27 22:22, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you have PI and spirits then deliberately clump them together and then use PI ^_________^
 * But yes you would normally spread them out to avoid them exploding. HareeMuh 00:34, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * discordway will work along with other builds. You actually want the ele boss to nuke your spirits so you can abuse PI on him-- Relyk  talk  04:35, July 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * How about 4-man area's? (Old Ascalon area) Or missions like Eternal Grove were splitting up at start is recommended? Should I use discordway or this builds in Eternal Grove for example? IMO it lacks of healing in 4man objectives. I may be saying something very stupid, if so correct me please. xD

84.85.178.203 19:59, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * your spirits will do all the work in 4 man areas, you wont need heals at all pretty much. for eternal grove, it's up to you-- Relyk  talk  21:29, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * You will only need more healing if you're on a melee char. Unfortunately in 4 man areas theres not a whole lot of room for that, so something passive on yourself might be better. Life   Guardian  21:50, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Slavers Exile
I tested this in Slavers with a second real person taking sabway, completed all of Slavers in HM with ease with close to 1 wipe in about 2.5 hours, including Duncan which was completed in 22 minutes 125.238.241.99 20:01, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was able to spiritway Duncan HM with h/h by basically just pulling enemies and letting the AI go to work. 71.198.141.251 19:48, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Video
I added a link to a youtube video guide, which a guild wars friend of mine made. Explains the build at all, like skills and how to use it. Not sure if it's necassary to make a topic for this here. But just want to say, so if it's against the rules or something it will be removed as soon as possible.

82.168.185.27 15:18, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * wow NICEEEEEEEEE guide...lol...can pls someone delete this shit.Illoyon 17:39, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

if you're going to add any video guide. delete this one and start over. the video is just bad. i'm not even sure why you would need a guide for spiritway. learn how to properly aggro and you can't fail, spirits do the rest. 122.57.171.123 10:48, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Merge with Archive:Team - Human Rit Spiritway
I'm going to add the Build:Team_-_Human_Rit_Spiritway Panic Hero variant (for when the player is an SoS) to the build. That team build is identical to this one aside from that, so we might as well do away with it after I merge the two. --Supernick530 00:30, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

The use of Ranger/Rit instead of Rit
I posted this at the old PvX earlier today. At the time, I didn't realize the site switched, so I'm posting it here too.

I was thinking about setting up a R/Rt for the SoGM hero, partly due to wanting to use Pyre, but mostly to see how the energy saved could be used. I did the math to see what you'd give up, and I'm posting it here. This is all theoretical, I haven't actually tried it out yet.

In summary:

Advantages of Ranger primary:
 * Cheaper rituals, due to 13 expertise (52% cheaper rituals)
 * Can use dodge or lightning reflexes for defense if you want
 * Doesn't need +15e staff, can use 40/40 set to be able to replace spirits faster

Disadvantages of Ranger primary:
 * Spirits have much lower HP, due in combination to the lower level spirits and lack of Spawning Power
 * Less damage overall, due to lack of +4 to Communing.
 * No Boon of Creation

Details (taking into account the loss of levels):
 * SoGM provides 1 less extra damage and lasts 4 less seconds.
 * Shadowsong provides 1 less second of blind and does 4 less damage. Has 174 less HP. Costs 7e, 8e less.
 * Pain does 7 less damage and lasts 30 less seconds. Has 195 less HP. Costs 2e, 3e less.
 * Disenchantment does 4 less damage and lasts 7 less seconds. Has 195 less HP. Costs 7e, 8e less.
 * Anguish does 4 less damage and lasts 8 less seconds. Has 185 less HP. Costs 7e, 8e less.
 * Dissonance does 4 less damage and lasts 4 less seconds. Has 195 less HP. Costs 12e, 13e less.

I don't know the exact amount of loss of damage. I think all spirits have an attack speed of once per 2 seconds. If this is true, all spirits (but Shadowsong) will attack 2 less times. Maybe 3 times given SoGM, but it'd be cutting it close (and spirit AI kinda sucks anyways, so it's safe to assume 2 less attacks). Someone else can figure out the math from here!

Cost to deploy all spirits as ranger: 7+2+7+7+12 = 35

Cost to deploy all spirits as rit: 25+15+15+15+5 = 75

The energy might not be correct, since 75 * .52 = 39. But it's only off by 4e.

As a ranger, you'll have a base 25 energy. Plus 12 from the Off-hand would leave 37 without any runes of attunement. That's enough for all the spirits.

[build prof=Ranger/Ritualist expertise=12+1 communing=12][Signet of Ghostly Might][Shadowsong][Pain][Disenchantment][Anguish][Dissonance][Optional][Optional][/build]

Possible options include having a pet. Taking one point out of expertise would let you get up to 6 Beast Mastery (I think), and you could add 2 points from head piece + minor BM. Or even a Sup Run of BM for 10 BM. This would make the disable time only 5 seconds if it died. Add in Scavenger's Strike and you have some energy management. Note that this would increase the cost of all spirits by 1e, so perhaps a +2 rune would be useful. But then again, you have energy management.

[build prof=Ranger/Ritualist expertise=11+1 communing=12 beastmastery=6+1+3][Signet of Ghostly Might][Shadowsong][Pain][Disenchantment][Anguish][Dissonance][Scavenger Strike][Comfort Animal][/build]

This would provide some emangement, another meat shield, and some extra damage. It would make up for some of the loss of damage from the lack of Rit primary.

Alternatively, you could throw Armor of Unfeeling to help make up for the loss of HP and lower levels (and thus less armor).

Anyways, any thoughts on the feasibility of this? Cheapy 146.151.199.141 23:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There's really no reason to do that when you have access to Boon of Creation as a rit, which solves any energy problems. A rit could take a pet too, though it's a pretty bad option. You're just losing too much if you're not using a rit primary. The only time I'd run a ranger spirit spammer is if I was already using the other rit heroes for something else, which is not the case here. -- Jai 's Crappy Christmas Sig ...   - <font color="#7A7A7A"> 23:52, November 30 2010 (UTC)
 * 40/40 doesn't reduce recharge on spirits. They're not spells. <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGreen">Toraen -<font face="Courier New" color="DarkRed">Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 04:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Huh, well that's something I never knew. Guess I just assumed it would. Thanks for the info. 146.151.199.139 06:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing really wrong with a r/rt, but you lose spirit health, duration, and damage, harder time maintaining energy, and pets suck. the ritualist doesnt run out of energy with boon and defensive skills are pointless.--Christmas sig.jpg talk  06:55, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course. I wrote the R/Rt discussion above. Still haven't actually tested out the numbers (of the R/Rt vs Rt/*) on the master of damage, but perhaps this is at least worthy of noting for characters who don't have access to Razah yet? He takes a while to get to, and not everyone has finished Nightfall on characters that they'd wish to use Spiritway on. Or maybe there are people who don't have EotN but want to use this. If there are no objections to this, I will add the use of Ranger as a variant of one of the ritualists. CheapyPipe 19:52, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I heard a while back...
...that heros don't use SoGM very well, and as this particular SoGM rit will probably only use it on maybe 2-3 spirits I though why not make it Rt/P like this.

Command at 8. --Sam6555 13:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * But they do.--GWPirate 14:01, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Is it possible to change the SoS hero into a necro? I find that it's easier for energy management.
 * I moved your comment to the bottom of the page, thats a bit easier. Also a hero with spirit siphon shouldnt have energy problems.--GWPirate 21:11, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Optional Elites for the Communing Rit
Are Soul Twisting and Weapon of Quickening viable variants to it? Might be better than SoGM in areas where you clear mobs faster and can benefit from reduced recharges. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor 21:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * ST yes; WoQ, meh, not really. Life Guardian 23:16, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Superior Runes worth it?
It seems to me that the -75 health may not be worth the extra atb point, the benifit seems pretty minimal to me.--Haseo 16:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Your heroes take no damage, so theres no reason not to have superior runes. Life Guardian 19:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Vanquishing
I read all the comments, and I can see some concern about how the hero's trigger some of the skills. All I know is that this hero build is much more effective in vanquishing tough areas than Sabway. I have to admit that I had become highly reliant on Sabway, maybe too much, and I found it working less effectively the further I got with my Elona VQ'ing. By the time I reached Vabbi, and certainly The Desolation, Sabway was showing it doesn't work well in all areas. Switched to this build and saw improvement right away. This should put the fun back into VQ'ing. Darwin Iznang 05:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Sabway is obviously going to be weaker in areas with enemies that don't leave corpses (the desolation's undead), since the MM and thus the energy management of the entire team rely on being able to animate minions. It's also kind of dated since the ritualist and mesmer buffs. It's still here though because it's still a pretty mindless build to run and still powerful enough to take care of most areas. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 06:49, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Merge?
It's awfully similar to the player version now. It might be too messy to put both the player and hero versions onto one page, and I personally would prefer they stay separate, but I know how PvX likes to consolidate pages... -- Jai . -  03:15, May 8 2011 (UTC)
 * Why was this changed? i was under the impression that we were keeping the old 3man builds for use in 4man areas. Life Guardian 05:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ^ It still has use in that manner. Reducing a 7-man build to 3-man often doesn't go smoothly on the page since you have to re-compress roles. --  Toraen   talk  05:15, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but the build in its previous state wasn't really set up well for 4-man areas. I figured this would be more useful than yet another 4-man build. Revert me if you'd like, though. -- Jai . -  05:28, May 8 2011 (UTC)
 * Spiritway really only needs the couple heals in 4-mans. You have up to 20 meatshields which should be roughly 4 times as many as any mob size you encounter. --  Toraen   talk  05:36, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

3 Rit Heros
Thanks to the HM of WoC you cna now get another rit hero. Is it possible to get the 3 heros?(one to take SoS Channeling, second to take SoGM and the last one to take ST) Of course replace the minion bomber for the 3rd rit hero. I mean that way a team will have much better protection then with the minion bomber but less dmg and possiblly less bodyblock. Opinions? Kingmor 11:01, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It was done by me before and it got trashed because st isnt needed for 4 man areas. Look at "other builds" in my userpage if you want to see it. <font color="Blue">Mac  -~'  Talk  '~-  11:12, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Improvement for 4-man areas
As this is still not optimal for 4-man areas i suggest some changes like this:

any improvements? Illoyon 10:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You changed two skills.-- Relyk 17:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * since SoA and Aegis aren't needed in 4-man areas (well i could have posted only the mm, right). Illoyon 20:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Can drop aegis. spiritwall and meatwall is enough defense against melee and you would switch to ST rit if you needed more. I'm not a fan of dwayna's sorrow; it's even less useful in 4 man areas. I'd still want SoA or shielding hands mainbar, just in case the sos rit gets trained. Putting res on the sos rit or sogm rit depends on your setup, they can be left optional.-- Relyk 02:05, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Archive
Imo Krschkr's vote should be removed and then I agree that this should be archived. This never should have stuck around after the change to 7h. It works in 4man areas, but the intent of the build was always 3hero+4hench. As Krschkr mentioned in his vote, the build is very effective when you flag and micro spirits, which prior to 7h you actually had to do. The monster ai nerf in like 2013 also hurt this build because enemies don't pull into spirit range as nicely. LifeGuardian (talk) 02:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * What'd be the reason to remove that particular vote? Of 9 votes 7 are post the 7 hero update. If the build is to be archived, it'll probably suffice to say: Significantly inferior to other teams for this party size. Since we're (apparently) archiving it in 2019 in my opinion the rating from 2019 is relevant, not the one from 2011. --Krschkr (talk) 12:34, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
 * If we were to backdate the archival to when this should have absolutely been archived, then your vote wouldn't apply (post 2013 ai nerf). This would bump its archive rating up to great but this is kinda pedantic and doesn't really matter anymore. Just gonna toss this in archive and note it should have been archived by 2013 at the latest. -Toraen (talk) 03:09, 29 May 2019 (UTC)