Archive talk:R/Mo PvP Melandru's Shot

Discussion
Melandru's isn't that great really.  Frosty  No U!  21:06, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Its still shitty.  21:08, 7 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Lots of moving foes in ab and cm though, and snare and degen look good to me. Huynh Sanity 21:13, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Wish recharge was less--74.61.209.219 01:25, 8 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Agreed, 5r would be good, but 10 is just... bad. -- 01:27, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Not quite gr8 anymore. Fix tag plx? -- 03:04, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Good is fair.  Frosty  No U!  03:06, 8 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Testing tbh. -- 03:11, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

But yes I agree w/ good. Or close enough. -- 03:13, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Crip Shot, Burning, and Magebane are all still better than this tbh. Têh±   §ŵøRÐ  13:55, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

You're all bad stfu  —Ska Kid  17:58, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
 * no u -- Get Your Wood On  Discuss  19:33, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

you are all bad. that is all. --Readem 22:24, 20 August 2008 (EDT)


 * dV is good, no? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:26, 20 August 2008 (EDT)


 * I still like DnF more. --Readem 23:46, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Just checking, gw is being fgt and won't let me on now. Bleeding covers crippled from this, right? --Tab  Moo  06:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Godliest tells me its bleeding covered by crippled, which makes this alot worse. Leaving votes as they are for now. --Tab  Moo  06:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * ^ God  box    07:31, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * What? Isn't that a good thing? Now it takes twice as much effort for them to remove your Bleeding! :D  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 07:33, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * OMFG! SO TRUE!... yeah it's crap. God  box    07:52, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Why would it matter if crippled is covered by bleeding? It is still covered by poison regardless. --Readem 20:42, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * If both covered it, it would be able to survive a mtouch. Not a huge deal, but it would make it that much more effective as a split template. --Tab  Moo  06:17, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

This is good because...
Explain this to me please. 12:16, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Readem's reason explains it well. Minus the last few words. =o &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 14:16, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * His rating is wrong. It says it has less recharge than those, but it doesn't. It has 10, Sloth and Pin Down have 8, and Hunter's has 5. And also, Great, it combines compression of Sloth, Hunters, and Pin Down. Big fuckin deal. Why does noone run Hunters? Cuz bleeding is shit. Pin Down is better as it has less recharge and is UNCONDITIONAL.  14:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * ^ +1 Massive  [[Image:Image-Massive Sig.jpg|19px]] 16:12, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Also seen alot run this whit Concussion shot (The Champ is Here only tough:P) but CS looks kinda decent since u wont spam Mel Shot and the rest of skills such as Crippshot so maybe gogog variant:P If this is for Split Daze is pretty naise, since offhand condition removal is very rare exept Mtouch and u should dshot that one too :) Massive  [[Image:Image-Massive Sig.jpg|19px]] 16:14, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Tab, mine and Massive's votes are fine. It is still unexplained why this skill is epically awesome.  18:23, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * No, you're both wrong. I've explained why it's good, stop being stupid.  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 18:25, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I would take Cripshot over this anyday.  18:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * That's a stupid idea, but okay.  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 18:43, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * If your team feels that's necessary, then you can. Though it doesn't have the versatility that this build has. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

If you take into consideration, that this is one skill and you listed 3, Melandru's Shot has a lower rec (when you take into account the various conditions required for each skill; and this doesn't even factor in after-cast delay). Just because you have to be semi-decent to use Melandru's shot, doesn't mean it is bad. The quick activation makes the movement condition easy to fulfill. As for the ten second recharge, use that time to interrupt key skills and spread poison. --Readem 19:03, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * While this skill may be versatile it still is mediocre in everything it tries to do, comparatively. I don't know you are testing everyone to see if they will follow your words blindly (like every religion) or what. -- Get Your Wood On  Discuss  19:29, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * I cannot tell whether you are just bad, or merely ignorant. Regardless, I don't lie about builds. I don't have time to waste (about anything for that matter), but if you would like to see my explanation as to why Mshot is the best Ranger elite in the game currently, feel free to read Frv's Talk Page. --Readem 19:41, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I wouldn't say it's the best. Cripshot and IA are both better than it. It's just another good alternative for different build requirements. --Tab   Moo  06:14, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

All the Bullshit
Some numbers and points: The following numbers are conceptual and based on 12 marks, ignoring the effects of any preparation or, as regards the damage part of this, the effect of cripple. So basically, +61 damage difference on a non elite skill that is not vulnerable to condition removal. Thats fact not opinion.
 * Sloths gives +52 damage every 8 seconds and 22 every 8 seconds if unsuccessful.
 * Mels gives +22 plus damage in hard numbers, and assuming bleeding last the entire 21 second duration (worth 126 damage) it will do a total of 148 damage.
 * Therefore over a conceptual 40 second time frame (LCD ftw) sloths is good for +260 damage if successful and +110 damage if unsuccesful (a +185 average).
 * Over a conceptual 40 second time frame mels is good for +592 damage if successful and +0 damage if unsuccessful (a +246 average).
 * On condition removal:
 * Restore Condition at 14 Prot will heal 66 health for the removal of bleeding, reducing the +148 damage to anywhere from -44 (immediate removal) damage to +82 (if removed at the last second).
 * Mending Touch at 1 prot(for all intents and purposes the effective spec in GvG on a ranger) will heal for 15 health for the removal of bleeding, reducing the +148 damage to anywhere from +7 (immediate removal) to +133 (last second).

Against Screaming Shot, i'll say the following: Being a split skill, it wont be vulnerable to RC much at all, but also, is unconditional(or much much less conditional) and will be used mainly on NPC's, who are both invulnerable to condition removal, and aren't moving.

Against Cripshot, you'd have to be baked to use them in the same capacity. But, on a split, i'd rather snare them with a good skill than a bad skill, and then have a functional elite at the stand.

Honestly, all i wanted to get at is that this skill is absolutely useless at the stand, is conditional and almost definetly less effective on the split, and offers bar compression for skills which shouldnt be compressed because they are used in entirely different capacities. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 19:51, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * didnt read, urbad  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 19:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * moar math: readem mentioned on frv's page:
 * "As a ranger, you already have enough tasks to micro-manage"
 * Accepting that the troll nstride mtouch an res sig arent skills being used or nearly being used on recharge, the standard ranger bar, not counting elite, uses a skill every 9 seconds OR MORE BECAUSE IF YOU'RE JUST USING DSHOT ON RECHARGE YOU'RE AWFUL. 9 seconds. you have to be a fucking mongoloid to be unable to consider the correct use of your elite during that time.  --Dark0805  ( Rant /Contributions ) 20:01, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Quit emoing out. No one runs Screaming Shot now and using pewpew ranger logic is bad. Try to rate the build for what it is and not up against other elites. If you want snares, of course you'd run a Cripshot. No one's comparing other than you. By your logic, Bull's Strike has a lengthy recharge, and you can't pewpew it, so it must, thus, be god awful compared to Prot strike, which does more damage and is more spammable. You run this to save half a bar worth of slots that you normally wouldn't have, since you're not taking Sloth's/Pin Down/Hunter's (Hunter's is bad though). &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:23, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Other than being entirely wrong Dark, good points. --<font color="Black">Readem 20:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * As a general rule, Ranger's should not be contributing to a spike in balanced GvG. It is merely not what they were designed to do; which is to pressure via Apply Poison, interrupt key skills (which in retrospect relieves pressure off the backline), and split at key times (forcing an unfavorable match-up/cross). The mere fact it is able to add any damage during a spike (when necessary), is quite simply amazing.
 * Bleeding doesn't matter. No RC will waste energy removing bleed/poison. It is more valuable however, during a split (where no condition removal is available) or when ganking a Rt Flagger (where every point of damage means something).
 * Screaming shot is pretty much shit. We are talking about hunter's. It doesn't matter anyways; on a split it should only take a few seconds to kill and NPC with vamp/apply/Mshot/Savage/Savage.
 * If both skills snare, it doesn't matter (on a split). Both are about equivalent in value/reletive usefulness at the stand.
 * Your Mtouch calculation doesn't make any sense. All rangers have 3 in prot by default, and RC's even more. Besides, if you are good at ranger, you will dshot touch.
 * You should be using Savage on recharge (no joke) to spread poison, if not to interrupt a skill. Dshot should be used whenever it recharges (and have a relatively high success rate if you are any good). I am not going to lie; if there is a single mesmer on the opposing team, and we have a ranger, diversion better not go up more than 3 times (and all 3 better be a lucky 40/40 cast).
 * Get better at ranger.
 * Wrong at some points. You have hunter's and mel shot for poison spamming, you don't savage poison spread with the current meta(you used to, though) because savage has aftercast. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  19:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the big deal over this. Laying three conditions on your target with just one skill is over powered imo. Like any other skill on the Rangers bar, just use it at the right time. Selket Shadowdancer 20:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Not so much overpowered, but when used correctly, it is more versatile than cripshot/BA/Magebane in GvG. --<font color="Black">Readem 20:42, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

The thing you all need to understand (Frv, Dark, Massive) is that this is not being suggested as a better replacement to Cripshot. You'd have to be pretty dumb to say this is a better snare elite than Cripshot. What this offers is the ability to get a good cripple snare (as long as you get it up on key targets, for example flaggers and other fleeing targets on splits etc, it's not going to get removed unless they have a mtouch there) in combination with the positive points of the other skills. This has a completely different use to Cripshot, even though the effect is fairly similar, and has to be treated as such. View it as independantly of other elites (Cripshot) as you would BA or Magebane. --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  06:24, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Fuck it. I understand why the skill is good i just dont think it is as good. I could care less, remove the vote plz. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 13:00, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * That's why most people are voting under 5-5-5 tbh. Your votes fine iirc (cba to check again), and you can delete it yourself. --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  13:01, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Well its ska's and readem's 5-5 that struck me as overrating for the sake of overrating. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 13:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Ska is allowed to make bad votes because he flirts with me on vent. You know how pointless arguing with Readem is. --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  13:05, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * If you think arguing with me is pointless, try my mother. It is like shouting into a wall. Without end. --<font color="Black">Readem 18:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It's the same with all mothers. With mine it's more like a black hole though. --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  18:08, 22 August 2008 (EDT)


 * K time to pull my wild card.
 * CHAMP RUNS IT, IT MUST BE GOOD. CYA  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 20:14, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I used the dV card a while ago. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:07, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Then I'll pull the pH card...(75.134.131.172 02:26, 2 October 2008 (EDT))


 * Well then i bring the card, that i use it ;) Beats everything.. Massive  [[Image:Image-Massive Sig.jpg|19px]] 06:23, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Sorry to do this Skakid, but Quickshot. Pluto 04:11, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

8 Second Recharge
More pew pew now :> -- Frosty  19:17, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

AAHAHAHAHAHAH EAT ME  —Ska Kid  19:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
 * PEW PEW PEW. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 19:22, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Your vote needs to be edited again Frosty. <font face="Staccato222 BT" color="black">Huynh Sanity 21:37, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

The benefit of Mel's Shot that wasn't mentioned above is how little of your energy it expends. Allows you to use Conc Shot comfortably, which creates a VERY strong and versatile split template. Zuranthium 22:51, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Lol even thou i run this i get low energy anytime spamming interrupt/INTERRUPTing:P >:@ Massive  [[Image:Image-Massive Sig.jpg|19px]] 08:46, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
 * So then don't spam interrupts like a retard. --71.229.253.172 04:55, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I run into energy problems, too, and I'm not spamming rupts, I'm just rupting a lot...4 energy every 5-10 seconds, 2 every 10-15 and another 2 every 8-12, Apply is another 7 every 20 seconds, and then the rest of the bar. Maybe I should rupt less? -- The preceding srsly srs comment was added by Itokaru   03:31, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Never interrupt less. If you really need more energy, have an extra +5 energy bow in your inventory and run a major for 14exp if you really suck. [[Image:mightymouse.gif|25px]] moush 01:30, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Actually do rupt less. You don't need to spam interupts. Making people believe you WILL interupt them makes them cancel already, and if you don't interupt then you save energy and keep the danger of possibility to interupt. You should be able to manage energy on a mel shot, if you can't, you're doing something very wrong and I'd seriously suggest you do go for another profession. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  08:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Why the wierd attributes?
What is the point of running only 13 expertise? Is it for the +2 damage, or the 1 second of cripple? Eitherway seems a bit pointless, I would rather run it with 14, 10, 10 for the nat stride and troll breakpoints. Luminarus 09:17, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Err...13 expertise IS the breakpoint for 5e -> 2e skills. - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  16:56, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Savage shot, 5 second recharge, you should be using it on recharge. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 16:59, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * He means the extra second on Nat Stride and extra pip of regen on Trolls, not the energy, Generic. -- The preceding srsly srs comment was added by Itokaru   20:27, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Oops. - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  11:09, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Because you actually don't need the 14exp, as you only have 1 10e skill that would require the breakpoint. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  08:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Troll is Bad
Hunter's is 5xbetter (escpeccialy this bar) and infinity x more used.  Fishels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  12:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Pretty funny
how when you scroll down this page, you see "Hunter's is bad" from two of our BMs a few dozen times. Now it's probably the most meta ranger skill in game. lolgw or lolpvx? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * perhaps "lolmeta" might be appropriate no? Funkopotomis 18:12, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Only rapta said that--Relyk 15:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You know what's really Crazy?!
I don't see Augury as a variants anywhere in here! I know Mending Touch is good for Monk and their Healing Effectiveness when removing DW.. but How about also adding full-offensive dw inducer? Rangers finally carrying DW..? FTW? mebbe? Only 3 pts investment needed for timely dw's? What say the rest of You? --BlazingBurdy 03:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you're running pure offense, you arent running mel's shot. Beyond that, rangers are for lolutility.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is nothing wrong with running augury, just take antidote sig instead of mend touch [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin  06:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Excuse my nabness, but wouldn't running augury on BA turret be better? [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 06:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Mel's Shot ownz, it would be pro on splitzzz [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 06:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

RA?
tbh, pretty fail in RA dont you think? i mean, the support/utility role isn't that great in RA. If youre aiming to rupt WoH and such, run magebane imho One Who Brings Soot 23:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Melshot > RA. Keeping melee away from you/teamate is win. Also dshot RA usually means win in RA. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 23:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This works very well in RA (I get lots of wins with it anyway). You have the option of spike assisting/interrupting/snaring and keeping daze and such off your monk. Utility is still powerful in RA if you aren't bad and Magebane is a utility build too tbh. Magebane also has less damage than Melandru's. Toraen   talk  23:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * its purely choice, magebane will roll if u have any decent team, melshot is better for carrying a crappy team--Relyk 23:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * RA is RA. It seriously doesn't matter what you run in there. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  19:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You know you can't just say that when they ask whether its good or not--Relyk 07:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Mels is amazing in RA, you can easily stop a palmstrike sin with 1 dshot, you can shut down a monk completely by dshotting woh when the other team has bad communication and one of them overextends you can crip their healer, you can easily win a 1v1 which happens from time to time, hell you can win a 3v1 (dont it before). Mels is good for so many reasons i dont even understand why in hell you would think it fails anywhere...--SalaamiSandwich 17:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Nerf to M.Shot and Hunter..
Still viable? Bow damage alone isn't enough (imho). BA's also looking more appealing to me now. Shoot, even Punishing Shot looks good! *Puts on beer goggles and looks at e.skill selection*. --BlazingBurdy 01:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Mel's is still by far the best bow elite (probably followed by Magebane) [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 01:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * BA is still potent.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 07:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * BA in random arena is pretty darn strong... Funkopotomis 18:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think point blank > zojun. What say every1 else? --BlazingBurdy 21:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Point Blank seems like an ok variant. It has moderate armor ignoring damage + bow damage, fast recharge and with it being half range it's harder to dodge. One problem is, is that you can't go Melandru -> Pointblank when assisting with damage, nor can you spread poison as fast. Timmy963 23:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Melandrus > Magebane > Burning imo (actually depends where and what ur running) <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:#BEBEBE;background-color:black;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Terran  22:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Mels is still strong b/c it's crip for 1s cast. Just dump hunters and bring debil or trolls--Goldenstar 00:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


 * yea, tbh mel's was good because of its crip. anet just turned rangers back into their old utility roll.  they took away the spike assist rangers.  no need to archive, just change back 02:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty positive Mel's still causes Cripple, unless Cripshot now causes bleeding and I'm so oblivious I didn't notice I had to wrong skill on my bar. Just Point Blank -> Mel's and pew pew like you always have. 128.255.218.50 15:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm so happy. I raged at Frosty for a good while about Needling Shot :> [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   15:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * tbh, I could see letting Needling be mainbarred only if we took Mending over Mend Touch. 128.255.218.50 15:38, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Needling should be main bar imo! -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  15:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Needling + Mending and you're mother fucking invincible. 128.255.218.50 16:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What happened to powerful Crow McPointblank? [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   16:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Crowels was using that because of big damage everywhere meta, now it is hexway, so Crow le Poison spreader! -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  16:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Needling Shot should be on every fucking apply bar (except for IA for obvious reasons...) [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 16:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * iirc, Needling is still a terrible skill, regardless of anything. 128.255.218.50 16:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well then you're fucking wrong and you need to lern ranger. -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  16:21, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Needling is amazing if you don't use it like a shitter. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 16:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, your goodness + braveness on ranger instantly increases dramatically if you needling spam somebody to death. -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  16:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm a mother fucking shitter and prefer to run brave gimmicks over anything useful. 128.255.218.50 16:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean you're a terrible player who can only run spear rangers and doesn't understand the true bravery of needling? -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  16:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * more or less. I certainly can't comprehend how to hit a moving target with MShot. I run Pin Down/Punishing/Savage because it makes me feel less terrible. 128.255.218.50 16:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC)The thing is, Needling Shot works as an amazing poison spreader, unfortunatly, Archer's Signet does not work with Spears. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 16:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ups. no wonder i lose so often in RA. anyway, regardless of how well Needling Shot works to spread poison, dedicating a slot to something auto-attacking could do almost as effectively works against the toolbox theory of a ranger. 128.255.218.50 16:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you please no longer comment? As you obviously have no idea wtf you're talking about. -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  16:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Clearly. I'm so retarded I have to be reminded to breath in constantly or I'll die. 128.255.218.50 16:55, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, please never tell that joke again, it made me cringe :/ -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  17:00, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ups. I have lots of other jokes, but most of them have to do with those afro-american types. Or Jews. 128.255.218.50 17:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Needling's the only quick-acting and feasible attack skill avail. nao. It's a known fact that bow rangers just plain suck UNLESS You either: have a twitchy trigger-fingery edge to rupting everything (or) you have some kind of rupt-macro/script to play for You (like a hero/henchie basically). --BlazingBurdy 04:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Crow is going to come to your house and rape you for that.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 04:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop being wrong about everything now. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   06:30, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually crow, you are bad this time, needling is one of thoose terrible skills ppl belive will be strong as hunter's. It doesn't spike, it does not spread bleeding that did alot of pressure, just run screaming, debil, troll, pointblank. Mel's was btw buffed and not nerf'd, unconditional bleeding.  Fishels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  23:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, making damage conditional on M.Shot was baaad (nerf, not buff). Needling is the only quick-acting bow attack meant specifically for spreading HIV poison quicker.. not for dmg as rangers are no moar pew pew.. --BlazingBurdy 07:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * u could see this both as a buff and nerf. instead of making the dmg unconditional, the bleeding became unconditional. <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:#BEBEBE;background-color:black;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Terran  11:36, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Even if you spam Mel's on the same target on recharge it will do more damage through bleeding than the bonus damage did. It simply adjusted it from spiking mindlessly to being more effective pressure if you are using it badly. Stop being dumb Blazing, it's getting really tiring. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   11:38, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, the conditions are probably some of the easiest to fulfill so the damage and crip triggers pretty often still anyway. <font face="Courier New">C:\PvX>Abort, Retry, Panic?[[Image:Panic_Sig_Cursor.gif]] 11:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah losing the fast activation on hunter's hurts a bit imo, but mel's should still be fine, it'll just play differently (i.e. it's less for spiking now), though of course, if your spike contains a KD anyway (e.g. you use a Mind Shock ele or somesuch) you can still spike with it quite well. 81.110.25.23 12:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Needling shot has an aftercast delay, making it a waste of (however little) nrgy, it costs. auto attacking is ftw. IA is even more ftw.

Merge plz!
Am I the only one to notice that all those ranger builds are very, very, very similar?213.126.247.227 13:24, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are. We haven't had this conversation 300 times OR told people to shut up about it already. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   13:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone should make a "This should not be merged with .... because of ...." template. Drag  nmn   talk cont  14:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * he got a point. I mean, they all have thesame attributes, same gear, same bows. the only difference is the usage (elite skill) and therefore I think it should be merged. cripshot rangers do the exact same thing as Melshot's, and burning arrow rangers are just used to interrupt and put pressure/ aid on spikes. the rest is anti-condition, stance, and a res signet.
 * I'll summarize the past XXXXX arguments for you: they are not merged because the elite makes the ranger. As you said, BA is for spikes, Cripshot is pure support, Melshot is for double cover on your cripple and fast activation, Magebane is for perma-dshot on their WoH. The roles are too different. If you want to see the entire argument, I'm sure you can find it somewhere. The BA talkpage is where I'd start looking. Drag  nmn   talk cont  21:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, Hammer Warriors have separate pages even though they are generally the same but with ES/MS/BB as the elite. If it's the elite that's different, they may as well keep their own page since the usage et c. is different. 81.109.179.84 19:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * People come here to copy/paste meta builds. We have a guide for builds like this one if you want to see them on one page. But from that page you can see that a person looking for a specific build would not want to only find a guide they have to fill in themselves. Toraen   talk  20:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The guide is the merge--Relyk 03:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I say that, if everything but the elite differs with each template, it should be merged. However, if attributes, weapons, armor, etc.. make for a significant change that it warrants it's own page then it'd be a cause to leave it alone and set apart from the other builds (example: Incendiary Arrows). --BlazingBurdy 02:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey aren't you that moron who no one listens to because you said spear rangers > bow rangers? Supa balla 17:33, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Spear ranger > bow ranger in hb [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  02:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

copypasting template codes ftw--Relyk 02:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * HB is serious business --J0™ 14:05, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Why is this build archived? It's still viable and actually used in the current meta quite often. 88.159.236.245 13:20, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * The recharge nerf hit this pretty hard [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  14:25, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but like I said, it's still viable and seen on observer being run by top guilds. I would at least put it back in GvG builds, you can leave out the meta-tag but still. 88.159.236.245 17:47, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Cripshot's way better [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  17:51, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with anon. Escape ranger and IA aren't archived, why should this be? Cake Archer 23:56, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Escape wasn't nerfed for proper rangers, IA is a niche elite that no other elite can replace, Cripshot is far superior in GvG now that this has a 12 second recharge. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  23:58, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Escape is still never used, but if nothing else, we should make a JQ version of this build as it still rapes more than cripshot there. Cake Archer 00:16, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * I see escape every now and again, it's like a superbuffed natty! -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  00:19, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Wat
Someone fix what needs to be fixed because I can't be bothered obsing right now. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor 04:50, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Should just be revoted upon. Vote wipe ;o -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 09:06, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Debilitating Shot? <font color="Deepred"> No <font color="Black"> vii 21:40, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

I
just obsed a #3 Mel's Shot ranger using Barbed Trap. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 12:35, December 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Traps are pro. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 12:42, December 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what Luke said. Indeed <3 The guy was trying to put it in a bottleneck, but he was getting ganked at the time, so it didn't really work out. Can be used very strategically, despite the weaknesses in it. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 12:49, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Merge with cripshot
Don't merge with other elites, merge with cripshot because it's so damn similar. The only difference is in recharge and bleeding. The usage is exactly the same except with melshot you'll try and hit stuff that is moving/kd'ed. They might play SLIGHTLY different roles in a party, but nowhere near enough to make two separate pages. BerserkerConan 18:07, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Still no. We have a merge for all the rangers already. Also, I'm pretty sure it makes a big difference in GvG whether you use Mels or Cripshot. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 18:20, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Where did the discussion about the apply ranger merges happen back then? I'd like to see whether I have a chance of success when proposing a merge of crippling shot, melandru's shot, incendiary arrows, magebane shot and burning arrow. In my opinion they're all variants of the same build. --Krschkr (talk) 22:57, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I changed the page a bit. If these 5 pages were to be merged, the currently commented out variants section would be shown and replace these pages. Opinions? --Krschkr (talk) 23:18, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * So the reason these were previously never merged is because before Melshot existed with its current functionality, the ranger's elite choice mattered a lot more (you couldn't just take melshot and be reasonably covered for most situations) and notable GvG players of the time actually did say to us, "no don't merge them you idiots." Some elites also had specific changes to other mainbar skills (Burning Arrow was originally an /A ganker I think? Possibly as a different page. Magebane also had a different secondary for a while iirc), but skill changes and meta shifts saw the commonly run bars for each elite eventually converge on the same base. The discussions happened to some extent on each build's page (though also must have happened on some user talks, but quite a bit of this was before my time as admin).
 * As for the merge, I don't particularly mind it myself anymore except for Incendiary Arrows just because the attribute spread is different (that's a minor quibble though, if we merge any pages then the build packs script will miss variants regardless - I really should think of a standardized way to have it save major variants though). If we merge, I'd say archive the other pages rather than delete though. -Toraen (talk) 12:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Of course the other pages would be archived and not deleted. Was that R/A BA ganker similar to the Turret Ranger? About incendiary arrows – isn't it quite common to have build variants which change the attributes of the main bar? --Krschkr (talk) 14:12, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Even if it's common it's always kind of bothered me. Many variants don't justify a separate page just because of some attributes though and I can see that with IA as well. Still annoying though and I'm trying to devise a variants template that'll let us have both the merge and the build codes in a clean manner that can be used on other pages as well. -Toraen (talk) 07:08, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Since merge proposals now show up in the grace period overview I tagged the 4 other pages since we now won't forget about them. I guess it's safe to wait a few days/weeks until the variantbar template is ready before actually going for a merge. That'll allow users to discuss the merges first. --Krschkr (talk) 11:53, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

buff
Now back to 10 seconds, and with the nerf to cripshot this could see more play again. <font color="Black">Frostels 10:46, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait to see what obs mode has to say. Cripshot's a lot weaker now but it's still a better option for snaring flaggers than melshot (especially now that water snaring took a big hit)--TahiriVeila 16:14, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Hence the "could" <font color="Black">Frostels 16:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

buff
The little 2 less seconds recharge buff made me see this alot more in the lower end PvP (RA etc). Maybe back into the Meta?-- GWPirate 关 11:05, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Only put the meta tag on if it becomes such in GvG, since that's the 'highest' tag on the build. A burst of usage right after a buff in RA isn't enough to justify the tag. -- Toraen   confer  20:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)