User talk:Emilesin/Team - EMo Bond team

Already ahead. I am Aware the Additional party members example builds look a bit messy as a view to this total build. I don't mean the builds itself, just how it looks. Got any suggestion? The best option would be that people still can see the build code's, so they can copy pass it to the game. Also, not sure if some builds are in conflict with the rules. Since some of them, look like builds that already are posted on PVX Wiki. Tough my opinion is, that this is a good way to give people some impressions on ways to play the game. Also, the side effect; That people maybe go some bit more on a search on this site for fitting builds. To awake some more interest.--Emilesin (talk) 12:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Damage Characters
They do not belong on this page, as the team consists of just the E/Mo and Mo/Me. As long as these damage builds are on this page they're an attempt at sneaking builds past vetting. The damage builds are a) in no way adjusted to work with the two core team members, you even say that "you can invite any character to the team, as long they bring a damage build" and b) can't be specialized for the area this team is meant to be played in because it's a general use team. Unless sections 9 and 10 are removed I'll have to give this a 0/0 vote once it leaves trial. --Krschkr (talk) 10:59, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * With the section 9 and 10 you mean all the damage builds??--Emilesin (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes. --Krschkr (talk) 16:38, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Right, So to come back on my question at the begin. Is there still a way to show some example builds for people to choose from?--Emilesin (talk) 16:45, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Made some changes, so the builds are more hiden. And changed the text so it is more clarified that people bring a suiting damage build--Emilesin (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * I have tested this all over. From Foundry to Slavers, from Missions to vanquish area's. The list would be shorter to say where you can't use it. At least, not without a complete change over. But, that part it comes to the common-sense, from the person who is going to start to form a team with this set-up. And i already clearly explained some counters, and what people can do from preventing a failure--Emilesin (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

You put in work formatting a quite pretty page, but the builds do not belong here. You have everything from para daggers to panic mesmers there, so clearly anything goes. Readers are expected to be able to piece things together themselves.

It's not a good idea to add variant skill bars to build articles if they're not relevant to that team. The IV nuker for example has its own page, but if that was to be updated then someone would have to update this page too. Linking to that build should suffice.

Since your second mainbar is designed for a human player, this team is apparently usable only by a primary monk? Or are those bars at the bottom meant as a replacement for the Mo/Me build? It's not clear whether this is a team designed for a Seed of Life monk and an ER bonder, or just an ER bonder. If everything except the bonder can be changed out, then this is a dupe of the E/Mo bonder page. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 22:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I have done many runs with no monk at al. The problem then is, that you don't have someone who can resurrect if people die. Also, the monk takes away a lot pressure for the EMo, specially in somewhat hard area's. Those variant skill bars, are very relevant to this build. Since you can do almost any area, as long you have the EMo and the UA bar. I have done runs with dagger spam sins and no monk or other back-up heal at al. So yeah, those builds are a quick view to people who want to finish a zaishen quest on a Ritualist or paragon. You can even finish the area with 6 x ritualist or 6x paragons if that are the only characters that are standing in the outpost when you are forming a team. Beside that i have recently added the text, that if you want to go to real hard area's, than mesmers as damage dealers would be the best option. That one come's down on the common-sense from the person who is starting a team as EMo bonder.
 * I have watched the bonder page. But, this one is nothing like that. That page is made somewhere in 2008 and does not even have Balthazars's Spirit, not even as optional. The build as it is showed, on that page is by far not as effective and clearly explained, on what the full functional can be as a EMo bonder. And another thing is, why can't I show some variant build that are perfect as they are. When I make a link to look a-like builds. Most likely they have to choose from optional skills to put in the builds, which make the build in some cases far more worse. And beside that, why can you ad way over 40 variant builds, that all attempt at sneaking builds past vetting to Deep BYOB page? The builds i have posted are really fitting to this page you see. When you are standing in some outpost during Zaishen quest's. You always find and overflow on ritualist paragons and monks. This way you can just invite them. Most of the Zaishen quests are not that hard. A team with 2 dagger paragons and 2 damage smite monks will work out perfectly.
 * But I am willing to change text to clarify it a bit more. Or, even delete some builds from the page. Tough I think they all can be very useful, as long it is clearly explained when to run optional builds like that. Maybe you guys can help me a bit on that one?--Emilesin (talk) 10:45, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If you think the bonder page is missing something, then you're free to help fix that build. If you think the Deep BYOB build has issues, then the solution is definitely not to post more teams with the same issue. At least that team is for a specific area, this is for general PvE.
 * It still feels to me that this team boils down to "an E/Mo bonder can carry 7 other not-entirely-useless players through most content, so long as someone brings a res and a bit more healing". That's fairly obvious, but the E/Mo build we have is indeed pretty shallow and could use a bit of expanding.
 * It's indeed an issue that players don't bring enough resses and healing in PUGs, as I had the joy to witness a few days ago when taking Rebirth on my AoF prot barely carried 7 other players through a HM ZM. That's a matter of being lazy, overly optimistic, or not very good at the game. I don't think it's something we can or should fix by creating a vague team build for AoF, E/Mo bonds, or whatever. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 18:45, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * That E/Mo bond build is placed in the General build section, and so it is mend for that section. And tells nothing constructive on how you can use it for all type of Zaishen quests. Beside that, I am not going to interfere with someone else his build which not have the same purpose as my build. The build I posted is definitely for a specific "area" as well. It is for all area's, mend as team-build to do Zaishen quest's. The example builds i have posted, you can use them at al area's. The only exception would be an area Like DoA, But even in there I see possibilities for some builds. So yeah, those builds are specified to work with the Bonder. Specially the ritualist axe build. I don't even see in what other team set-up that build can be good. Having a 60AR character playing as melee requires someone to protect that person to my opinion. I can post 100 builds that would work with an EMo bonder, but I choose specific these builds for the reason i have explained. Beside posting that many builds would make it look messed up. The way I see it, it is very clear the way it is posted. Apparently you see it different. Now, i have explained my intentions with this build, maybe you can tel me some constructive's, on what to do with the text or builds, to make it more clear. I mean I can post 6 mesmer builds with it as well. Then you can do DoA and every other possible area, it would be the new "Frostway". So yeah, this is definitely a team-build and not to be compared with the general EMo build from 2008. Want me post 6 Mesmer builds in the exemplary team?--Emilesin (talk) 19:46, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't really have anything to comment on the other points without spending some time on my answer, but it's not really "someone else's build". Builds don't belong to specific people, and the purpose of posting builds isn't to get credit for them (quite the opposite, it's generally bad to be personally invested in builds). Anyone is welcome to contribute changes that improve build articles. The E/Mo ER page for example has very little resemblance to the original build and didn't start using prot skills until 2010, with no relation to the original author. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 20:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * A yeah, I get you. But still, it feels totally wrong to mess around with someone else his post. Specially an old one like that. Maybe i not really understand the intention from the person who posted it, or the person already had other plans with it. It feels wrong than to interfere with that, but ok. And for what the credit, I don't care as well. I just want to lift this game to a higher level, with more possibility's to do stuff, and more challenging's to conquer.
 * I already changed the exemplary team build with 6 mesmers in it--Emilesin (talk) 21:08, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Why Balthazar's Spirit btw? -1 energy regeneration loses you 1 point of energy every 3 seconds (e.g. 10 energy over 30 seconds). That is not much cheaper than 10 energy per 23 seconds just by covering yourself with protective spirit (has the benefit of a cover enchantment..) - Chieftain Alex (talk) 21:15, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * You get extra energy back from it, at the moment you receive damage yourself and its an extra enchantment that is just always there. Well maybe that skill can be optional, but in all the test runs I did, i always had it on me, and it worked perfect. Specially melee foes seem to target me as bonder. Mostly at that point other teammates also get a lot damage (if the foes are spread out), Then you are glad these melee foes hit you for that extra energy gain. Another option is, to put it on a Bonder in the team or on the monk or the tank for who ever needs energy--Emilesin (talk) 21:35, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I see where you got it from. I had a mistake in the text with the UA that put Seed on the bonder. Not sure if having Life Bond on that bar is good, it probably makes it confusing, as it already did to me.
 * I am not that big of fan of Shatter Hex, but at least the exemplary team looks a bit more all round now--Emilesin (talk) 22:23, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Specially for this set-up, we should ad some builds with the new elite in it. Since a couple of them seem to work best when you go melee as 60AR character. With the new weapons, which require a monk to use a hammer for instance, and necromancer a scythe. Or an Elementalist with some dagger spam build with a Conjure ... spell. I rather not use builds like that without having bonds on me--Emilesin (talk) 23:08, 2 May 2020 (UTC)