Build talk:Me/any Ineptitude

[build prof=me/any illusion=12+3+1 fast=9+1 insp=9+1][Ineptitude][clumsiness][wandering eye][signet of clums][By Ural's Hammer][optional][optional][optional][/build] imo. + ℓγ ss άή [rage]  16:56, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * sig is probably mainbar worthy, but ineptitude is debatable. a lot of those elites (apart from Shared burden) are actually pretty damn good. 213.229.83.205 17:51, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Frustration? Cuilan 03:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Funny you should mention Shared Burden being bad; because it's far from it when it keeps foes balled in PvE.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 04:34, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not huge fan of Shared, since it seems counterproductive when Conundrum is likely already there, and you want to spam Wandering Eye and Clumsiness without waiting for things to attack, but I think Psychic Instability deserves a mention for fast-recharging crowd control and being intensely amusing to use.Erring Ryft 17:18, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed PI is also an amazing snare. The thing with Shared is, when you use so many movement/attack snares, the AI just go apeshit and circle you. Rather amusing to see. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 19:04, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Pros and Cons
This build has nice recharge and easily switchable elites with the listed ones on the page, although I use Arcane Echo. The damage is very high, but the cons would be a dummy who re-hexes a foe right away with Wandering Eye, focusing on casters first, the chance of a foe not attacking, and maybe even natural resistance with the 4 second hexes. If your group has a lot of knock down (outside of your control) it may not be wise to use this, perhaps. 40/40 really that needed? Cuilan 00:05, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's PvE, everything autoattacks, and if you are so worried about casters just bring Psychic Instability to leave them flat [[File:Tyrael.png]]--(Talk) 17:42, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not true, but okay. Cuilan 17:56, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Shared Burden
Tell me why this keeps being added. A ndy 23:10, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody made an argument why it's bad. Cuilan 23:44, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shared burden is a pro snare/hex with a good range and recharge. Why don't people like it?  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 09:06, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * As useful as snares are, it reduces the chance of Clumsiness and Wandering Eye from triggering. It's also only 50%, and as most HM enemies move at +33%, it's not really doing much there. The additional cast time is only useful if used with aoe-interrupts or kd's. A ndy 11:57, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * They still trigger clumsiness/wandering eye more often than not. It also turns hm into nm-- Relyk  talk  22:25, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Calculated Risk
Is a non-pve skill Pain inverter, with a 50% chance to proc...(and has since been fixed to work on ranged)and is "bugged" to work on any damage source not just attacks...seriously? indeed. :P Jayson MaxxFury 15:07, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * No longer works on anything, just for attacks now. Changed with today's update. Time to un-mainbar it? --WhiteAsIce 02:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * A real shame that the bug has been fixed. For me, it was the highlight of the build. I agree with the un-mainbar-ing of it. User:Someone Cakey 14:10, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh well, there goes the mini pain inverter.. Jayson MaxxFury 16:43, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars needs a organization control that moves certain skills to a custom shitty skill list. Cuilan 18:11, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Meta?! wut?
again...that?.....is it really?...Someone can remove it if its not meta, had a break from genpop so i dunno?.Jayson MaxxFury 13:51, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Hero Build?
Why is this in hero builds when heroes can't use "By Urals Hammer"??
 * because there is obviously NO hero variant right under the player variant?! Jayson <font color="Black">MaxxFury 16:19, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ ups. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">16:01, 30 July 2010  (UTC)

Human energy management
could be better. Unless you're lagging something horrible, power drain will give you about the same energy as GoLE will save and then recharges in half the time. At the same time you can interrupt high priority skills. You can also free up your secondary profession by dropping GoLE to take a list of more useful skills or utility skills for the party. darkoak 01:24, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Split the Hero version
I'd like to propose to split the hero version from this article. The hero version is obviously meta while the human version is not. I also feel that the bars are different enough from eachother to justify such a split. Something like a "Illusion Hero" or "Ineptitude Mesmer" with Shared Burden as an invariant should do the trick. Thoughts on this matter? Vorpal 14:42, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Doesn't need splitting imo since we have Archive:Team - Mesmer Hero Midline already. I heavily edited the builds on this page to bring it upto spec with what I take (arcane + AoS > shitty drain and deep wound), changed all the icon codes and switched optionals a bit. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  16:26, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah the page looks much better right now, no need for a split anymore!!! :) <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 16:28, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You're going to have a hell of a time managing energy with just that, especially with Ineptitude. Also, CoP isn't particularly great anymore, and Air of Superiority is pretty useless as energy managemet (and you don't need the recharge). IMO, mainbar some real energy management, similar to what was there before. Also, those attributes are retarded. -- Jai . -  16:40, May 23 2011 (UTC)
 * With GoLE mainbarred I think e-management problems are pretty much solved. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 16:44, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've pretty much stopped using CoP. Cuilan 17:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Fix'd some skill and rune stuff, I feel the build still needs some more editing in the player departement, maybe Jai can look at it later. CoP is still pretty neat imo <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 17:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Judging by most of the votes, I don't think anyone thinks that the player version is all that great. IMO, we should just scrap the player stuff and make this a hero build. -- Jai . -  17:40, May 23 2011 (UTC)
 * Ineptitude is meta-ish in caster spikes, shittery about it being not as good in general pve compared to dom is irrelevant. The bars are perfectly fine. If the page is going to be split, it would be two pretty much identical meta builds, one for caster spikes, one for hero; it's not because ineptitude is lacking on players in general pve.-- Relyk 19:11, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * And stop taking out PI from the human build. Cuilan 20:27, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Stop adding it, explain why you would want to run PI as a human on this build.. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 20:30, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a four second AoE knock down that works with Frustration and is also on the hero build. Clearly there isn't any reason to remove it. Cuilan 20:32, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I approve Culian's message. Not hard at all to rupt a caster's spells on a human. In fact, they do it better unless you're pretty retarded with rupts since humans will more likely do it on groups of mobs. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz...  20:35, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Even though heroes can catch shorter skills, a human can target better and be a lot more aggressive with it. Cuilan 20:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah but it's only on the hero version for a reason, heroes are extremely skilled with interrupts compared to humans. I don't see the appeal of running PI, while wasting time waiting for a good rupt, as a human when you have Ineptitude and Shared Burden to your disposal which are vastly superior in this case. You would also have to respec and since the build is called an "Illusion" Mesmer it just isn't a smart thing to do overal. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 20:39, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Idk why you would need to respec. 13 FC is more than enough for a 4s KD.  Judging what the build is called doesn't exactly determine its elite. It does take more skillful play to use PI though. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz...  20:44, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The build is pretty much using two attributes, I don't see how "illusion" is a valid reason. Humans can be very skilled at interrupting. Most people who are lazy tend to avoid skills that require timing anyway, so they'd just use a different elite. Cuilan 20:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * 11+1 should do the trick then for a 4sec knock down, I still feel that PI should be left to heroes, but if you really want to use PI for some reason I guess you could, dunno what Relyk thinks about this cause he changed it. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 20:54, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Why run 11+1 when you can run 12+1? Are you reading the right build? [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 20:57, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Typo, should have been 12 :( Btw is this build even run by people? Because Jai also has a valid point about deleting the human version imo.<font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 21:01, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I run something very similar, but the site is suppose to provide good builds regardless if people use them. The Ether Renewal and Dual ER builds are used by a very small minority of players, yet they're extremely strong. Cuilan 21:16, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I always run ER, never leave without it. It's a shame Physway got archived, it was awesome! <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 21:30, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Cuilan, the difference is that ER Prot/Infuse is one of the strongest builds in the game and by far the most powerful healer, while this build is at best an alternative to running Panic. Illusion is good, but it's better suited to heroes. The only time I'd consider running this is in all-player teams. Relyk, if it's used in caster spike teams, then shouldn't there be a caster spike build? And PI is going to be rather meh because the vast majority of people are going to be at least somewhat inconsistent with hitting the interrupt, and it's just done so much better by heroes. Plus, PI has no damage, while Ineptitude is about 100 damage every 10 seconds. -- Jai . -  22:00, May 23 2011 (UTC)
 * I gave an extreme example in order to prove a point. Panic is extremely over rated and often pretty lackluster in many areas. There isn't any requirement that builds or optional skills have to not require any skill in order to be added to a PvX build. Cuilan 22:07, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Jai is right though, when me and my guildies already have a panic in our party the second mesmer just runs E-Surge. And panic overrated? C'mon the skill is insane! So the question is, should be list an optional which is better used by heroes and does no damage on a build which is a medicore alternative to another build in the first place..hmm <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 22:10, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * PI does no damage? PI does damage in the same way Panic does damage and heals. Time knocked down is time foes not healing or hurting.  Although PI is a little anti-synergistic with some of the illusion spells. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz...  22:13, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The answer would be yes since it does damage with Frustration and is often stronger than Panic depending on area, party composition, and aggro. Switching to another target that is attacking easily solves any synergy issues. PI is easy to use and is fairly spammy. Cuilan 22:16, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It still does no direct damage, that doesn't change. The main question remains: should you run this build in the first place? Since it's the retarded nephew of the Panic Mesmer and much better suited for heroes, I say "no" to PI and the human version. It's a meta hero build but vastly inferior to human domination builds which beat this build in terms of shutdown (Panic) and damage <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 22:32, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * One of the main weaknesses of Panic is that it is dependent on the number of foes hexed. PI doesn't hate or discriminate, so it is definitely not inferior if it is in a 4-player parties. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz...  22:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer Fevered Dreams if my goal was shut down, but Shared Burden doesn't "do damage" either. I don't see Panic shutting down or doing much damage with areas with smaller groups or mostly physicals. Cuilan 22:42, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Panic is less effective against smaller mobs that's true. Ah well I just stopped giving a shit like 2 sec ago so I'm fine with listing whatever optionals you guys want, I only care for the hero version anyways. :) <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 22:56, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're in 4-man areas, then run a Dom mesmer with either ESurge or PI. PI just doesn't work well with illusion anyway, because of a few reasons: one, illusion spells have long casting times, which means that at many points you won't be able to interrupt because you're already casting; two, PI means that for 4 seconds, your illusion spells are useless, or in other words, your entire bar is down for about half of the time. Also, if you're running this, you had better be running a Dom mes because it's superior no matter how you spin it, and if you're bringing Panic, PI is very much anti-synergy. Not to mention that Frustration will likely do less damage, actually, because for 4 seconds at a time, that foe will be on the ground and hence uninterruptible. -- Jai . -  23:21, May 23 2011 (UTC)
 * I've seen no issues with PI and Panic together since Panic doesn't get everything or rupt skills as soon as it's used. Cuilan 23:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * While one is in effect, the other is useless. Also, you should never need that much shutdown. -- Jai . -  23:57, May 23 2011 (UTC)
 * True, but it still has relevance in randomway pugs and general play (although its not popular). I would prefer using this over esurge if i bring a panic hero in the deep because lolmelee or stygian veil because everything's melee and balls. I think that spamming 3 100+ aoe skills more than justifies it on a player, just that the meta swings towards esurge since it's unconditional damage. it's so easy to run on a hero that it's rather pointless to run on yourself or run concurrently. Of course, everyone else can theorycraft it's crap and trash it for all I care if its split and revetted. Cuilan is bringing up old arguments, panic vs. pi is not even the issue on this discussion. I'll just say the only elite skill players will run is ineptitude because they want to kill crap.-- Relyk 00:08, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wammo builds still hold relevance. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 13:18, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Same with SS and a large number of builds and elite choices on PvX. Cuilan 20:27, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Arcane Waste of Energy
Theorycrafting it's great, in reality heroes use it poorly and it's a waste of time to cast. Another interupt such as leech signet or possibly an optional for res. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 07:11, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Echo?
to spam the shit out of Wandering Eye? Works pretty well for me, in melee heavy areas. Illoyon 11:31, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that'd require micro from heroes, and this build isn't exactly optimal for players anyway. -- Jai .  -  18:39, May 27 2012 (UTC)
 * sure i thought of the player bar only.Illoyon 20:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ups, didn't realize that the player/hero builds were split. Yeah, that's fine. -- Jai .  -  20:37, May 27 2012 (UTC)
 * Assassin's Promise would be far better than Echo. Cuilan 00:35, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Assassin's Promise would be pointless in this case as short recharge skills lend much better usage with copying than semi-random recharging on an average of, say, 5 seconds. Remember, WE has a recharge of ~8 seconds, and Clumsiness ~6. The chances that AP will shave off more than a few seconds of those recharges is unlikely. -- Jai .  -  00:54, May 28 2012 (UTC)
 * tl;dr echo is more reliable than AP since this is an AoE focused build. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 00:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess everyone has this hard on for ap around here. The best builds don't even use ap wasted slot is wasted.Them 20:40, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Fevered Dreams for heroes
Viable elite skill alternative combined with fragility. Does not require to apply any conditions itself (like in this dedicated condition spam FD build: Build:Me/any Fevered Dreams), as it's a team player's skill and heroes don't understand builds anyway. --Krschkr (talk) 19:39, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Split proposal
What's the current opinion on splitting the page to player and hero only pages? --Krschkr (talk) 22:56, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I always support splitting hero builds to their own pages MasterElros (talk) 10:17, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * this Juniper real (talk) 17:29, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Split performed. --Krschkr (talk) 14:26, 3 August 2018 (UTC)