Archive talk:A/W Disciplined Shove

In response to much bitching and moaning on. And this was run by Beserk. --  Guild  of   Deals   21:28, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Odd, but seems viable. The worst problem is it can't do much in its downtime, which is a problem for most Sin builds anyway.--TheHunger talk  ''My contributions  21:35, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah, the downtime is a bitch, but you've got Disciplined Stance to survive it and Disrupting Stab/Wild Strike if you really need it. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   21:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Synergy between Shove and Disciplined Stance on a Sin in RA is secksy-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 21:39, 6 November 2008 (EST)

No IAS? -- An gel us  21:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Disciplined stance is better to use since it adds more utility than killing faster imho-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 21:55, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * For some reason i think it lacks focus... Imo --[[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]]  JJ  berks   contrib  21:57, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Uh, how? --[[Image:Dervsig.png|15px]] An gel us  22:06, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Considering Hex's will kill this just like any melee type character, i seriously would rather run this.

Utilized Sin
[build prof=Ass/Mo DaggerMastery=12+1+1 CriticalStrikes=12+1][Unsuspecting Strike][Wild Strike][Twisting Fangs][Moebius Strike][Death Blossom][Optional][Holy Veil][Res Sig][/build] --  JJ  berks   contrib  22:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)


 * It provides a spammable attack chain... while being able to keep hex's off you. see i dont understand with discipline, cause if you are fight melee foes... you can take them out with a sin spike before they hit you to hard imo ... [[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]]  JJ  berks   contrib  22:11, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * ^I stopped at Way of the Assassin-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 22:13, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * woops... lol --[[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]]  JJ  berks   contrib  22:16, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * That's way too much energy to handle. And this has dual KD's, a big defensive skill, interrupt, and stance removal. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   23:12, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * No its not... anyways... VoR will kill your build like it does to every melee build with a monk... it doesnt look bad. imo --[[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Lucidia Sans;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> JJ  berks   contrib  23:16, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * And critical eye, helps the energy management. --[[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Lucidia Sans;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> JJ  berks   contrib  23:17, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Jj, monks are made for a reason. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 02:07, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * lol, mocha runs veil on dev hammer. it is bad, but he is cool lolol. --<font color="Black">Readem 10:17, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * lol, I thought you didn't speak retarded, cool lolol. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 10:22, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * I was in a guild with grinch for nearly 4 months. I know retarded. Whether or not I speak it is another subject entirely. --<font color="Black">Readem 11:07, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Disciplined Over IAS is a Lack of Focus
This is a spike sin, no? Why fill up a spot to make a spiker survivable when what it really needs is the ingredient to make a spike... a spike. Sure, you could say that dual-kd and an interrupt is utility-based. However, your entire bar is flooded with attack skills and the chain is on a 20 second recharge. Utility should be readily available, and the "utility" found here is not. IAS > Survivability on this. -- Shazam  The  Snake      hissssssssssss 03:00, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Added for the banned Readem so people stop suggesting terrible things and I don't have to ban him more: If you add an IAS you fuck up your Qknock, stop being terrible. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 03:21, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * it also means some of your chain can't be dshotted. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 11:19, 7 November 2008 (EST)

People have been saying this is a 20sec recharge spike. Why? U dont always have to spike with Shove in the chain. it provides an easy KD and yes it is nice in a spike but i wouldnt expect it to be used in every single spike. The Spike seems fairly strong on its own anyway. For the Hb version u can drop the res for a IAS and id suggest another lead attack as a snare maybe. Zuko 11:35, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * You don't bring an IAS on this. Shove is used for easy quaterknocking with HotO and an IAS screws it up. You take out the Res Sig for Dash in HB. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   11:36, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Shazam, you pretty much said spiking is the only utility sins have... And staying alive in RA is more important than spiking faster. The added utility from disrupting stab, wild strike, and shove means you're going to stay alive for 2-3 kills, which is better than killing one guy really fast and dieing since no one there brings res. Read this too so you understand what utility means.-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 11:37, 7 November 2008 (EST)

Bias... *Sigh*
PVX wiki is VERY bias. -- <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Lucidia Sans;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> JJ  berks   contrib  15:05, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Quit whining. You were just wrong. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   15:06, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * What am i wrong about, this is shit. --[[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Lucidia Sans;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> JJ  berks   contrib  15:07, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * I have nothing against you GoD, but i don't want to see another shitty build get vetted great. --[[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Lucidia Sans;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> JJ  berks   contrib  15:08, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * There are other shitty builds in great? -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 15:09, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Totally! --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   15:10, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * I submitted it. It must be bad. Brandnew.  15:12, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Build:D/A Mystic Speeder - clean up... [[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Lucidia Sans;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> JJ  berks   contrib  15:14, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * It used to be good, but now its trash. --[[Image:Jjberks Sig 1.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Lucidia Sans;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> JJ  berks   contrib  15:15, 7 November 2008 (EST)

All the great votes here
Are terrible, this isn't great, just because it is the best shove sin you can get doesn't make it great... -- Frosty  18:26, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks to Relyk for helping me understand that a little better, can you think of another current assassin bar that kd-locks and carries the utility of blocking? That's your answer: BB has a better spike, with no survivability - SoJ also kd-locks, but once again with no survivability. Although no, this problably isn't within "great" range... -- Shazam  The  Snake    [[Image:Shazam_The_Snake.png]]  hissssssssssss 19:06, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Just because nothing else does what it does doesn't mean its good, it's unique but pretty meh. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 07:33, 8 November 2008 (EST)

If you're so bothered about survivability then run this on a Warrior for lolz. Woud give you a free slot too:

[build prof=Warrior/Assassin DaggerMastery=12 Strength=10+1+1 Tactics=8+1][Disrupting Stab][Wild Strike][Shove][Falling Lotus Strike][Twisting Fangs][Disciplined Stance][Optional][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Selket Shadowdancer 08:12, 8 November 2008 (EST)
 * But I like q-knocking. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   08:17, 8 November 2008 (EST)
 * Use Bulls in the optional then. Selket Shadowdancer 08:22, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Yeah
I dont get the reason for my vote being removed. see what? Dutchess of Rose aka  lukejohnson  - talk 14:55, 10 November 2008 (EST)
 * look at phens reason for removing railin's vote. Saint 14:58, 10 November 2008 (EST)
 * Which i can't see :S Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 15:01, 10 November 2008 (EST)
 * Wowwwww. "KD, bleeding, DW and an interrupt on the same bar. Deserves more than 2.6, jsut because BB "outshines" this, it doesn't make it work any less.", tbh that's a terrible reason to remove though. You could get like Gale, Dismember and lacerating chop and get 3 of those thinfs then bring like dstrike... -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 15:04, 10 November 2008 (EST)
 * aprently not. because even though almost every sin spiek build brings everyone of those except maybe interruption which could eb put in, it deserves more than 2.6, because it also has a stance which helps survivability, regardless of the fact a monk would eb better... Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 15:23, 10 November 2008 (EST)

meant to counter rao-way which is really easy to beat, but paul made this bar because he likes to run sin and every other sin bar sucks. --<font color="Black">Readem 10:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Snare?
Any smart player can kite, even with your KDs, no IMS no Cripple? &rarr;<small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Felix Titling;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> J.J.  berks   (contrib)  13:53, 28 November 2008 (EST)
 * Do some teamwork or snare with Shove if it's absolutely necessary. -- 13:55, 28 November 2008 (EST)
 * But then why do builds out there that have a good attack chain get vetted bad for no snare? &rarr;<small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Felix Titling;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> J.J.  berks   (contrib)  13:57, 28 November 2008 (EST)
 * Because this is really meant for coordinated team play. If you bring some random generic Sin Spiker, you won't really be running on an organized team much (outside of Backbreaker). If you're coordinated enough in TA and you bring this, you snare a guy and wail him with the chain. -- 13:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)
 * Oh, epic... just epic. I remember using this like two years ago when I first capped Shove on my assassin lol.  Scary thing was that back then Horns of the Ox had enough damage that I didn't use deep wound... whoa times have changed.  :P  Brownie Points for nostalgia.  KaHasuken 23:11, 4 December 2008 (EST)