Archive talk:W/Mo Defying FoW Runner

OP here! Although a little difficult to really get a hang of, this is a very versatile build. I have literally run LAPS around FoW before I got bored and finally resign. I even had a spectator comment that it isn't fair to the monsters that I wasn't dying. My entire party was whiped and left, but I was still going. The only areas it really can't run are the Forest of the Wailing Lord, and perhaps the Lake of Fire. I haven't attempted the Lake of Fire... yet. BLOODGOAT 18:13, 9 October 2007 (CEST)

waste of an elite skill much? Charging strike+sig of stamina+restful breeze+healing sig, 14 strength, 12 tactics, rest in healing>this build. Shuuld this be under Farming to? Massive impulsa 15:30, 13 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Have fun with your monk secondary, I know I sure did. /end sarcasm
 * Thanks, I will. Quackerz0 17:53, 14 October 2007 (CEST)

I don't think so, but there isn't really a dedicated area for chest running builds. (Chest running also doesn't seem to be that huge, anyways.) BLOODGOAT 18:30, 13 October 2007 (CEST)


 * For good reason....[[Image:Beast194Sig.Jpg|19px]]  Beast 194  21:34, 21 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, 'cause y'know, it's not like there's a title for opening chests or anything. BLOODGOAT 06:06, 22 October 2007 (CEST)


 * LoL you are second prof as Monk and n monk skills, and does not take a genious to run in fow just take a healing skill a defense skill and running skill and its done. Defy pain will run out before u even get to recharge it and u will loose HP and if ur taking damage even worse cause defy and endure can drop ur hp pretty bad there for u will die. so think about that.User:Breaker


 * >"Though it is possible, it involves tremendous difficult and a lot of luck."
 * >"...is possible, it involves tremendous difficult and a lot..."
 * >"...it involves tremendous difficult..."
 * This build. It involves tremendous difficult. Lethal Shogun 23:37, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

Farming vs. Running
This build should go under farming. It's goal is to gain items more than it is to transport yourself and others from place to place. I've made the change in the tag itself, but if you disagree and can support your argument, feel free to revert it, though please provide your rationale here.


 * put it into both farming and running cause it really does both...Riff 05:57, 30 October 2007 (CET)
 * I think it makes a bit more sense to have it in both because you are essentially doing both things at once. As well, maybe it will receive a bit more attention... BLOODGOAT 19:48, 30 October 2007 (CET)


 * It doesn't matter how much attention a build gets. If you want attention, put it into featured builds when another one of them gets vetted. I'm sure you don't want this build vetted against running, especially since you haven't designated where it would run, other than the farming of FoW. If you want this build rated against running, it will fail. No hex or condition removal, etc, etc, etc. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  21:54, 30 October 2007 (CET)
 * Condition and hex removal is saved for the Forest of the Wailing Lord. That is Shadow Form territory.


 * A) Sign your comments using ~ please. B) Hex Removal and Condition Removal should be on almost all running builds, simply due to the number of times you'll run into such things on most run paths. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  09:36, 2 November 2007 (CET)
 * Okay. Would you employ condition and hex removal in something such as the Crystal Desert tour? Because last I checked, no condition or hex used by the most typically encountered monsteres there can come close to spelling disaster for a runner. Nor can any condition or hex encountered in a general lap around FoW. That is, unless, you enter something such as Forest of the Wailing, in which I would like to strongly reiterate my last statement, that is Shadow Form territory. Of course, if you're complaining of a lack of hex or condition removal, I find it quite surprising you haven't mentioned anything about knockdown prevention on account of the Abyssals. Simply put, it is not needed. If you would like me to Photobucket a screenshot of the designated path this build is supposed to run (which differs none from any other profession, other than DERVISH and ASSASSIN for running FOREST OF THE WAILING LORD), I'd quite easily oblige. But right now it seems you think this build is meant to run every single/possible area in FoW, which it is not.

Elite
Thanks to the recent buff, "Charge!" might be a better option than Defy Pain. The adrenaline gain through damage is slow (estimated at 1 point per 1% of max health lost, whereas a single strike of adrenaline is estimated at 25 points) and possibly not enough to constantly maintain a 1000+ health pool. cedave (contributions_buildpage)  22:00, 30 October 2007 (CET)
 * You do understand that "To the Limit!" is there for the very purpose of charging Defy Pain in the one usage don't you? The idea of adrenaline gain through damage is laughable at best. You seem to have made generalizations about this build before actually using it judging by your theory. Maintaining a constant 1100+ health with this build with the stated equipment, skill setups, and tactics listed is easily accomplished.


 * So a skill you can use every 20 seconds is supposed to maintain an adrenaline gain you need in at least 17 seconds? That's perfectly viable.. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] cedave (contributions_buildpage)  09:35, 2 November 2007 (CET)
 * You seem pretty on-the-ball. Did you even notice Endure Pain was there as well? "To the Limit" => charge Defy Pain. Use Endure Pain. Use Defy Pain when Endure Pain expires. Before Endure Pain expires, recharge Defy Pain with "To the Limit" which would have been easily recharged by then, so long as there are enemies around, and renew it. And if there aren't any enemies, well why would you still be using Defy Pain and Endure Pain? Seems like a pretty solid, constantly maintainable sequence to me. Oh, but hey, that's because I made, use, and easelessly run laps around FoW with this build whereas it sounds like you haven't even used it, let alone loaded it onto your skill bar in the first place, thus rendering your criticisms VOID.

i noticed you havnt signed a single one of your comments. but, charge is still better for this build. cuz you only have to wait till endure pain recharges. but i rarely use it in CR anyway. seeing as a runner should have upwards of 600hp normally + sig of stamina = above 800. with the right armor you should only take 10-25 dmg when they hit. not a big deal. charge is better then defy pain. Quackerz0 12:41, 3 November 2007 (CET)
 * "Charge!" is not better for this build. The main appeal "Charge!" has is that it is an Elite shout and as such can be used in combination with other stances such as Defensive Stance (which would be to the effect of something like Escape) and Balanced Stance. I haven't incorporated either of those into my build just because they aren't needed, and I personally felt "Charge!" was a waste of an elite.
 * Tell me, in your experience, have you ever been in the middle of a run and hit a tight spot? One of those spots where, even with Signet of Stamina and all your health buffs, you still get knocked down to 200 health or so every now and again? I have, and I personally do not like to stop and heal especially when I'm surrounded by the entire Shadow Army. More often than not, I'll take more damage while I stop and heal (with Healing Signet and it's dreaded -40 AL) than I in turn get healed for. As such, I choose to keep running until I get to one of those few-and-far-between safe-zones that certain realms in FoW provide. But if I'm at 200 (or less) health, how am I supposed to maintain myself until I get to a safe zone? Sure, Endure Pain is nice, but the fact is that it often runs out at some of the most inopportune times, leaving you potentially vulnerable. So I asked myself, how could I counter this? With another health buff, of course. One that I could use in conjunction with Endure Pain. Defy Pain. However, Defy Pain offers more than just the health boost of Endure Pain. It also provides the AL boost of "Watch Yourself!". So instead of being in the middle of an aggro when Endure decides to run out, I can simply charge Defy Pain and hit that to grant myself an additional leeway through the form of a health and armor boost to get myself through whatever realm I may be traversing. Furthermore, whether or not you are taking 10-15 damage per attack, when you're Sprinting past the Tower of Strength, and you literally have upwards of 100 monsters around you, all just waiting to take their shot at you, typically with Barrage, the damage does indeed add up, far into the hundreds.
 * I have used some very generic running builds in FoW. I've toyed around with "Charge!", "Shields Up!", Defensive Stance, hex and condition removers, all of that. I've used Endure Pain by itself, and by itself, it is nothing more than a burdensome skill-bar occupant. It's not indefinitely maintainable, and that's something that should really be desired out of a skill that temporarily grants +250 maximum health. Being stuck with 200 health while you watch Endure Pain blinking to it's inevitable end is not a very comforting situation to be in. Of course, you have to understand that these are just my opinions, and the reasons I made this build the way it is. BLOODGOAT 01:58, 4 November 2007 (CET)
 * Happy I tagged?
 * Oh, and perhaps I should have mentioned earlier that I typically run half-way around FoW before stopping to rest, unless of course I see an Obsidian Chest. With such lengthy passages, higher health seems to better benefit me than combining a stance with "Charge!".


 * Running Charge with a stance against running a 2x stance + safety net is retarded at best! you get benefits only AND i say ONLY when you run team run build... which is to retarded as well also... I think this build is pretty good, it combines well with the skill set of IDS farming builds and as such can also get benefits from cash saving on build buying... the real question is: can you or can you not run in HM? i have ran in normal mode and i didnt even know anything but the fow beach, wich is runnable too :D and i made it with HP above 300 constantly, even when stopping for chests... in the middle of dodging a mob... which is usually a pain... so... is HM cast rate and damage a problem? answer now, infidels! :D -mikrobx

counters
I think "General incorrect usage" is a counter to any build. Invincible Rogue 00:26, 26 December 2007 (EST)

Monk?
No monk skills used..
 * Read the actual build please. Also, you now only need sprint as a speed boost [15s recharge in recent update].

Better Chest Runner
Seriously i had this build on testing for 2 months and no one has seen it, its the best chest runner out there i think. http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:R/W_Unstoppable_Chest_Runner

name change
it says its a w/mo but it isnt its a w/any so i propose to change the name to w/any defying fow runner
 * I think it's because of the optional being either Rebirth or Remove Hex. +please sign posts :) [[Image:Inferno.jpg|20px]] Mr  Metal  FLower  -... tlk  11:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)