Archive talk:P/A Dagger Spammer/Archive 1

wahhhh. really interesting actually. energy looks really good too. have you tested it? -- Ang el us 15:54, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tested a bit. Energy is fine, usually fine even if the enchantment is stripped. KDs and stuff are a bit annoying but I guess you can switch out Drunken Master/TNTF! depending on if you're using any cons. - Athrun Feya - 16:02, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Naming after yourself violates PvX:NAME. The only exceptions we make are for builds that are well known by their author or by their original name (i.e. Sabway, Imbagon, etc.). Sorry, Lau. Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  18:17, 11 January 2010
 * Technically it doesn't. The only breach of policy is that it does not describe what it does (but, boragon, managon etc don't really do this either) - Athrun Feya - 18:20, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * You just proved that it technically does (as well as two other builds) :/ Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  18:22, 11 January 2010
 * I proved that it does violate PvX:NAME but not strictly because it is named after myself (but that i guess is verging on PvX:OWN. Could change it to something boring like 'Way of the Paragon', dunno. Also need to come up with another name for the managon - Athrun Feya - 18:29, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * And Boragon (although, again going by technicalities, that could be considered part of the build's "description"). Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:34, 11 January 2010
 * k all renamed. technically manlyway should never have been called that either, but now that name is wellknown to the community - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 18:59, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ and team names are given a bit more flexibility on the policy considering that explaining a whole team would be difficult (unless it's like Shitterflames :/) <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">19:01, 11 January 2010
 * Actually, team names (at least in pve) are very standard, mostly Build:Team - (area name)(common skill)way - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 19:03, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

same energy, better party support. and if people say "daggers on para" you have a real excuse for running it. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 19:50, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not the same energy, especially since TPIY! and GFtE are both powered by adrenaline. But you're right in that it has better party support, hmm. Wait, TPIY is terrible, its basically 1 energy gain per character - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 19:54, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * with this you can keep it up perma, which means +1e every 3 seconds per person. and it doubles as energy management, and its not strippable. dont judge it in terms of what it is, judge it in terms of what you gain over using Empty Palm, because the energy is almost identical (with 2 shouts you can just spam on recharge). &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:04, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you do that every 3 sec you won't be using gfte! at all. Gaining 2 energy every 3 seconds and 1 per attack isn't suffice to maintain a 20 energy combo. I don't know how you can justify losing a lot of damage by just autoattacking, just for 1e every few seconds. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 20:10, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * what do you mean? 3 hits --> TPIY, 2 hits --> gtfe, 2 hits --> TPIY, 3 hits --> gtfe. you'll use GTFE plenty =). and in the downtime of the chain (when i tried it out a few months ago, i got in 1-2 extra hits before repeating), which is more energy in terms of shouts + zealous (if you're using zealous). &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:19, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Surely 4 hits --> tpiy, 4 hits -> gtfe/tpiy again. You're effectively trying to replace way of the assassin (which makes every combo 10e less) with tpiy (which makes every combo only 1e less). - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 20:24, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * im not following. say a chain takes 3 seconds, thats +1e, now add in the +8 from leadership, and its 9 off your chain, one less then empty palm, with the added party support, and unstrippableness. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:26, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * So run Saints bar with a paragon hero with finale of restoration for all the party heals youll ever need :> Brandnew 20:27, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * +8 from leadership? how exactly are you planning on getting 16 leadership? - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 20:29, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Brandnew 20:31, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * ohye. well, i tested it it months and months ago and the energy was fine, especially with zlos action going on. give it a whirl. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:35, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * You need 8 in motivation instead, ups.
 * So assuming you use asuran scan, jagged, fox, death, gtfe OR tpiy and assuming it takes 3 seconds and using zealous daggers:
 * way of the assassin: -5, -4, 1, 1, 5 (and 1 from regen) total energy per chain = -1
 * TPIY: -5, -4, -4, -4, ~6/7 (and 2 from regen, if already effected by tpiy), total energy per chain = -11/-10
 * Doesn't look fine to me, unless you're a fan of auto-attacking - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 20:38, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * tl'dr maths, ive tried it and i know it works, so idrc about numbars. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:41, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've tried it and it doesn't work, with numbers to support my claim. If there were some way of gaining extra adrenaline then tpiy build would be possible - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 20:45, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

It would seem like lau has forgotten how adrenaline works. It's not 4 hits, gfte, 4 hits, tpiy, etc. 4 hits charges one, and one more hit will charge the other.... Life  Guardian  21:29, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * and that 1 hit comes when the chain is recharging, which means you get to use both every time, which means +12e off chants, +4e off zealous, 18e gain on a 20e chain, compared to her 13e gain on a 20e chain. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:40, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 19e gain actually (see numbers above). - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 21:45, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * And lau's is even more energy spent because of recasting WotEP Life   Guardian  21:47, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 19e 20e gain actually with the same additional hit (see numbers above). - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 21:45, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * forgot 1e off extra hit, 1e off TPIY, so 20 vs 18, mine with extra party support. oh and i dont have to fork out 5e for way of the empty palm. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:49, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * so the same build, mine with party support and it can't be stripped, and the same energy (just like i said ten paragraphs ago). &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:53, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, because I forgot adrenaline was fucked up. Good job failing at explaining why it wasn't terrible! - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 21:56, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gz on fucking up basic game mechanics! Life   Guardian  22:02, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^and then saying i fail because of it! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 22:03, January 11, 2010 (UTC)