User talk:Moloch/Theory Of Four Gems

............................................________ ....................................,.-‘”...................``~., .............................,.-”...................................“-., .........................,/...............................................”:, .....................,?......................................................\, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:”........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}                               lol  —Ska  Kid  12:11, 14 September 2008 (EDT) ...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../ ...,,,___.\`~,......“~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-” ............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\ .............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__ ,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\ ...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\ ................................`:,,...........................`\..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\ ...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\

-- Piplup  .jpg  12:10, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I can't see what that's meant to look like? Moloch 12:15, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I HAVE DEFEATED YOUR THEORY!
 * - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 12:16, 14 September 2008 (EDT)


 * Actually, you just proved it ;) Moloch 12:17, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

Pretty sure either of those shuts down A BUILD OF THE FOUR GEMS in a single skill. -- Piplup  .jpg  12:19, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Again, you are just proving my point.
 * Blackout shuts down the other character completely at the expense of shutting YOU down completely.
 * Gale is a simple knockdown. I don't claim that you'll suddenly become invulnerable just by following these guidelines. Moloch 12:24, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * And the ascii was supposed to look like this:
 * [[Image:Shame.jpg|500px]]


 * - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 12:25, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * just occurred to me, but why isn't vm a mes skill? CABOSE (LVPoW) "Hey chicka bum bum!" 12:25, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

I agree with Ska...  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  12:26, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I still don't understand the point of the ascii :) Moloch 12:27, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

This type of thinking has served me very well when it comes to creating working PvE team configurations. You need special thinking for builds for PARAGONS in PVE!? O...m...g  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  12:30, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * You're just trolling. This isn't a type of thinking specifically for paragons - it's supposed to be used when going about designing ANY build. This isn't a set of holy commandments either; it's a general guideline. It's not possible to achieve a complete 4-gem build with any class combination. Moloch 12:32, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

Before this escalates into further dumfuckery - gw is a team game. Shouts are mostly shut down by anti-physical skills (blocks, blind etc), there's not many good instant cast, energy based shouts, and most of those don't really need shutting down. Spells and signets will get interrupted if they're worth interrupting, fast casting ones have other counters. Attack skills also get hit by anti-physical. All are weak to knockdown, gale, diversion etc.

It only takes a few skills spread throughout an entire team to counter these "four gems". Pretty much all you're ensuring is that you can't be shut down completely by a single person, which is pretty much pointless as a)complete shutdown is inredibly rare, you just shut down key skills on a bar, and b)you're making your bar worse while you're at it. How many bars with attack skills benefit greatly from signets and spells (paras don't count, dervs with IAS/energy management enchants don't count)? How many caster bars benefit from attack skills? How many bars benefit from signets, when the vast majority of them are complete crap?

As for PvE...why? NPCs don't try to intelligently use shutdown skills on you, they shit on targets their AI tells them to for a bit and then change at random. Furthermore, you know what you're up against in PvE. Instead of taking a bunch of bad skills so you can't be shutdown as easily, just take one or two skills in your entire team build which counter that area. Warriors getting stacked with melee hexes? Just take a Divert or Expel instead of giving them bad bars. If they aren't, again, just give them normal bars instead of bad ones.

So basically, it doesn't work for PvP and it's pointless for PvE. Good theory. -- Piplup  .jpg  12:35, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If you need to make your bar shit in order to fulfil these requirements, don't. I've already pointed that out. The idea isn't set in stone.
 * This is meant to be used in PvE. Monsters don't "intelligently" try to shut you down. They "use their skills on you for a while". True. Still these skills include shutdown skills, and this is countered by synergy-minded team builds. Also one general thing that knits this together isn't even discussed here: the fact that in a P-heavy setup you'll get more benefits from having these skill types on as many bars as possible (think Zealous Anthem and Hexbreaker Aria.) Moloch 12:46, 14 September 2008 (EDT)


 * There's no theory for PvE. You bring whatever overpowered things you find (Imbagons, Soul Reaping, Splinter), lots of AoE, and mash through mobs. End of story. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   12:47, 14 September 2008 (EDT)


 * sigh* another +1 comment without value? gg Moloch 12:52, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * GoD's comment is more valid than any of yours, so far.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 12:56, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Fine, go complete the Ebon Citadel of Mallyx in Hard Mode with 2 players and 6 heroes and then come back and tell me you don't need a theory as to how to go about it. Moloch 12:57, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * He didn't say you didn't plan your builds. He said there was no doubt because you know exactly what to do and it never changes.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  12:59, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * ...and I'm stating that you can improve team synergy in PvE by attempting to follow these guidelines thus creating teams that are more capable of completing the tasks.
 * Most of the replies in this thread have been very uninspired trolling. Moloch 13:02, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow, you're real fucking pro for being good at PvE. Let's start building the Moloch shrine and someone call Tommy, we've got a new awesome player. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   13:06, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Can't someone shut this trolling bastard up, ffs...
 * I AM A PvE PLAYER. Yes. I'm not a good PvP player. Thus I normally limit myself to offering advice on PvE! And I'm pretty TIRED of getting these replies ALL. THE. FUCKING. TIME. Moloch 13:10, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * People just get pissed when you act like you're better than all of us at Guild Wars when it's really quite the opposite. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   13:14, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I've pointed this out quite a few times, I believe. I'm not a good PvP player. Probably never will be. If I'm "acting" like anything, I'm "acting" like I understand high-level PvE better than you do.
 * Guess what, I do. Moloch 13:24, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * GoD, you just made me laugh so hard cake came out through my nostrils. Congratulations. Also, GoD is just basically trolling now, but this theory is fairly flawed. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 13:17, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

The four gems are: You should have as much as possible of the first 3 and at least 1 of the last. If you lose then you're fucking terrible. God box    13:24, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * AoE
 * DW
 * AoE
 * SY!
 * Fine, go take that theory into the area I mentioned above. If you lose you're fucking terrible. Moloch 13:26, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

PvXwiki:STFU imo  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  13:24, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * ^ God  box    13:28, 14 September 2008 (EDT)