Archive talk:A/W SP Spike Sin

Often seen this run in GvG, even after SP nerf, spiking every 25 seconds is still pretty good, so tell me what ya think. / Fros  T  alk  \ 21:19, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Takes hell of a lot of energy to use, 42 in total with the -18. Timmy963 21:44, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It is energy heavy but can be pulled of all the time, it has been used so much in GvG, I thought it was archived because of SP but I was wrong, suprised it wasn't on PvX in the first place. / Fros  T  alk  \ 21:46, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Archive:A/W Shadow Prison Assassin. The funny thing is, if u switch it to its original version (with BoA instead of Tiger Stance), then every single skill on the bar except res sig has been nerfed at least once. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]]  Ressmonkey (talk)  21:53, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Well I saw that but thought it was much different (same concept but the skills vary wildly :P ) / Fros  T  alk  \ 22:05, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * No knockdown makes me vewwwy sad :( IC YF IF T YF I VE  22:23, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Im a saaad panda :( Pwnagemuffin 22:30, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You have them snared, and they will be practically dead before the snare has ended, screw the K/D and fucking kill stuff. / Fros  T  alk  \ 22:47, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

I've seen [Glad] run this with two shadowsteps, Moebius instead of Black Spider, and DB instead of BoS. Not sure how common that version is, but it can spike a lot faster. --71.229 23:21, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * The buid you speak of is on the wiki, its called Unsuspected Moebius. Selket Shadowdancer 04:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

KD is one of the most important parts of a spike (for sin) Frosty, key to have one. Iron Palm in variants.--R ELYK   ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ  02:15, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Counters
Add reversal of fortune to counters plz. (Kiron 00:19, 9 June 2008 (EDT))

Why, then we could also add SoD, SB, PS as a counter and many other skills. Roxas XIII 02:35, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm wary of having black spider strike so far back on the bar. Plenty of time for SP to be removed before you get that far in your chain. Or if you just have bad timing and/or your target kites, the hex could end before you get to it. Charon 02:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) First thing i thought when i saw this build was "look an old favourite, but isn't black spider a bit late in the chain? The hex has a good oppertuninty to expire or be removed.
 * The timing of Black Spider Strike is right since your target will be snared (66% slower is good) / Fros  T  alk  \ 04:35, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * What about Blocking Stance? Whenever i am being targeted by an assassin my first instinct is to activate a blocking stance, Mess up their chain. How do you propose you get by that?- Donut204 06:33, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Ganking. Which is what this is used for. --71.229 06:40, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * And blocking kinda comes under typical anti-melee counters. / Fros  T  alk  \ 06:48, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I use this instead. requires someone to enchant you though, and is probably inferior to this, dunno. Brandnew. 08:04, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Means you need someone to enchant you, and puts even more reliance on outside factors (both hex and enchantments), plus SoTS on a dagger bar is kinda strange. / Fros  T  alk  \ 08:08, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, you indeed need someone to enchant you, but you still got shadow prison for your hex. Brandnew.  08:53, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Yea, it is also less powerful :( / Fros  T  alk  \ 09:13, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Thats also true, like I said; It's probably inferior. Brandnew.  09:14, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * you don't have any deep wound thats not good for sin spikes :). Ravager 18:02, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * What? did they nerf Twisting Fangs so it doesn't inflict Deep Wound, no wait they didn't. (It has deep wound...) / Fros  T  alk  \ 18:04, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * reading is ftw which makes me a loser, however he has no enchant or energy management and SoTS sucks on dagger bars (i could rant forever on why that build sucks) so the build is still bad :P Ravager 19:00, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * That was just a suggested idea, look at the main build for the proper version. / Fros  T  alk  \ 19:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I have looked at the real build and it is also very costly on your energy as Timmy already said (35e cost b4 then lotus give you back some but still 35 energy is taking away a lot from your health especially when ganking which is what this build is designed for as said in the intro). Ravager 19:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Lann
Damage can just be healed over... Go vote that on every ganking assassin on the wiki now ok? / Fros  T  alk  \ 12:23, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You mean "can't"? Also, without a knockdown, it can. They can just spam WoH or whatever through your chain. --Guild of Deals * Wah Wah  Wah! * 12:25, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * We're ganking here, I know it is tagged for other areas but it is primarily for GvG / Fros  T  alk  \ 12:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I have to agree, this has just plain damage without knockdowns meaning it is very easily countered by anything wilst will be easily outhealed. --Tiger   grrr!!  12:28, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I hurd gank bars that can't gank the runner are pointless. This has no KD so runner will heal through, not to mention he will have blocking up if he isn't horrible. Course i hate 90pc of sin bars and i can't really think of any that can solo gank me as a runner heh.I Heal If U Shutup 13:02, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Frosty
Almost every ganking build on wiki some sort of KD. Please respond while you have on you. -- Lann 19:35, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * What do you mean, it has a K/D now... / Fros  T  alk  \ 19:44, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

KD
Is there now, Not sure if it should keep Black Spider Strike, that way it isn't reliant on the K/D. / Fros  T  alk  \ 14:55, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * keep falling in GvG's while ganking target will usually be all alone and you have a better chance of running into someone with some form of hex removal then anti KD (i.e monk flag runners). IF there is more then one person your pritty much fucked anyways :)Ravager 20:02, 9 June 2008 (EDT)