User talk:UnwokenSpirit/Archive 1

Hey, please check the "minor edit" box, you're flooding the Recent Changes page. Thanks. 08:32, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've also moved your build to the buildspace, it is located at Archive:Team - MQSC Luxon FFF Ritway. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 08:33, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

WTF
Don't ever put my sig on something i didn't post. i have screenshots to prove you did it. Also to provewho originally wrote it. history pane mate, it aint hard. also, please use the preview button to stop flooding with edits. Zedone2 09:14, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Together, the Rits can do 250 DPS (128.8554817 for the player, 121.5 for the Hero, if you use the suggested bar, with 12+1+3(+4) Communing). Although the damage is divided among targets, it's completely armor-ignoring. Here's the math:

Note: The added 21 is Painful Bond, and the number by which I divided is the attack rate of the Spirit.

SoS = [3spirits(32+21)]/2 = 79.5 DPS, Bloodsong = (32+21)/1.75 = 30.3 DPS , Vampirism = (20+21)/2.15 = 19.1 DPS , Total Player = 128.9 DPS

Anguish = [2Xdamage(25+21)]/2 = 46 DPS, Pain = (38+21)/2 = 29.5 DPS , Shadowsong + Disenchantment = [2spirits(25+21]/2 = 46 DPS , Total Hero= 121.5 DPS

Total DPS for both = 128.9+121.5 = 250.4 DPS. Math does not lie. ــѕт. мıкε  18:23, March 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I looked at the wrong numbers but its still only 6 more damage per spirit. Also how fast do you think each spirit will die in HM without Armor of Unfeeling? When you replace SoS, its not going to have the extra boost because Ritual Lord does not recharge instantly on SoS since SoS is not a binding ritual. (Your spirits will be taking the hit because your hero will not use it's spirits as a body block). If one of your Spirits from SoS dies and you want to replace it, then you will have to replace the other two at the same time as well. And the likely hood that Painful Bond will only hex 2-3 monsters out of a 8 monster mob? Very very high. When the aggro is running toward you, you only get to hex the first one anyways. So you can basically cut your DPS by 40% for the ones that are not hexed. A nuker ele can easily average over 200 DPS using AoE on a large mob. When the mob is small then the Ele will average much less damage but its no problem because SoS can handle 2-3 enemies on its own. The 60 second recharge on mimicry makes it much less flexible and the spirits will take double the damage. From my experience, in HM, the block block becomes more useful than the damage. UnwokenSpirit 21:02, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you use Painful Bond to aggro mobs; you'll get them all at least then (by targeting one in the centre). The Spirits all also have at least 80 armor each, so they aren't that squishy, and if Monsters target them, they're still doing their job by spreading damage around. PvE with Heroes is largely unorganized, anyway, and even using your Spirits to body block as a Player will be difficult. Because Minions are basically staples for PvE, they'll help (together, that's up to 21 summoned creatures).
 * Also, Eles do shit damage in Hard Mode, where anything that doesn't ignore armor is reduced to a quarter (although EBSoH helps). Your argument against Painful Bond also works against you, because Eles' AoE are the same if not of smaller range. If you can only get 2-3 Monsters Hexed with Painful Bond, then you can only hit 2-3 Monsters with a Nearby ranged AoE, which, if it's a DoTAoE, may not hit every second it's active, because Monsters will leave its range, and Heroes won't likely time snares properly.
 * Finally, we can get Armor of Unfeeling on the Hero's bar, and I think Summon Spirits should suffice for the Player. If the Player's Spirits do happen to die, and Arcane Mimicry isn't recharged, you can resummon them and lose 12 DPS. Even without Arcane Mimicry on the Player's bar, there's still plenty of damage and enough synergy (the number of Spirits, not having to split Attributes for Painful Bond) to warrant the build. You aren't forced to wait 60 seconds before resummoning your Spirits.
 * Rating low, because Heroes can't use Spirits to body block, is unreasonable. Ele Heroes can't summon Spirits to body block, either. ــѕт.  мıкε  04:46, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your twisting my argument around, reread my posting again plz. I said that the mimicry will be ineffective because when you replace the spirits, and of course you will have to, the spirits will not have the bonus. One or two of your spirits will die within seconds even with Armor of Unfeeling. You should know that in HM you should never try to hex a center of a mob unless they are mainly melee. Taking the aggro of all the monsters at once will get you KOed very often. I always use a longbow to pull then run behind the spirits so that the spirits take the aggro then I hex; either with a team or with heros and hench. If with hench then I flag them behind the spirits then unflag them once the spirits have the aggro to avoid AoE group suicide. Now lets choose the two optional skills. The build suggests agony or destruction but we both should know that there are more important skills. I think there are three skills which are needed.
 * 1. Summon Spirits, 2. Spirit Siphon, 3. Armor of Unfeeling
 * If you don't have summon spirits... well your spirits will die VERY fast because 1. You can't move them away from AoE, and 2. theres nothing to heal them.
 * If you don't have spirit siphon or some kind of energy management then you can't effectively use painful bond, because I hope you aren't going on a suicide mission by "targeting one in the center"
 * If you don't bring armor of unfeeling the spirits will die almost instantly, even with armor unfeeling they die very fast.
 * Try out the build in EotN. Either dungeons or VQ on HM. You will find that your spirits will die very quickly without a constant Armor of Unfeeling and Summon Spirits. Watch how your hero uses its spirits. Of course they don't have summon spirits so the spirits die very fast. I just finished VQ Ebon area in EotN a few minutes ago and the heros just sat and in the AoE created by the charr. Now if the hero had spirits to control the spirit would have died constantly. If I don't heal my spirits 4-5 shots from a charr seeker would kill the spirits (16 channeling, 13 spawning + armor of unfeeling). That means it would take 2-3 shots to kill a spirit without armor of unfeeling even with the level boost.
 * You twisted my reasoning on the rating as well. Please to reread the reason of the rating. I didn't rate it low because a hero can't body block. I rated low because 1. YOU can't body block as effectively and 2. taking up a hero spot is not worth the advantage of slightly more damage (sometimes) while the spirits take double damage. Taking the aggro is half the spirit's job in HM and many times its main purpose. I don't rate based on predictions, I actually go test it on several different maps. Maybe I was using it wrong? You can try show me how effect it really is in game. UnwokenSpirit 06:43, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bring a Minion Bomber. That's more body-blocking, and the Minions will often be priority targets due to their low level and armor.
 * It's not a big deal if you don't get to use Ritual Lord every time. We can make Arcane Mimicry Optional, too. Ritual Lord still helps to reduce the recharges of the Hero's Spirits, so it's worth keeping.
 * You can set up your Spirits (and micro your Hero's) and then cast Painful Bond. You don't have to charge in and cast Painful Bond, although I probably would because it saves time. XD
 * Summon Spirits is the second skill on the Player's bar. Armor of Unfeeling can easily be put on the Hero's bar, and with a 12-11-6 split, it can be managed on the Player's bar, although I'd still leave it as Optional for either. Because User:DQP-GW, the poster of the build, hasn't been active since the 3rd, we can more-or-less high-jack the build now, although, of course, I'd avoid huge changes. Adding Armor of Unfeeling as an Optional for both bars is a small change, though. I also suggested Spirit Siphon, Splinter Weapon and Ancestors' Rage as Optionals on the Talk page, but DQP-GW hasn't answered.
 * Finally, I haven't played GW since the summer, so theorycrafting is the only reason I'm here. ــѕт.  мıкε  15:16, March 21, 2010 (UTC)