User talk:SmitySmitington/Archive 3

Your signature is still quite incredibly ugly. -- Chaos?  -- 10:29, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I give up lord chaos, give thee a signature, and thou shalt weareth. Smity talk 18:16, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I speak English on a proficient level. --Smity the Smith 18:16, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * -- Chaos?  -- 18:30, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

indeed --Smity the Smith 23:02, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been going for simple elegance lately. -- Chaos?  -- 23:08, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * funny, I've been goin for complex simplicity... --Smity the Smith 00:32, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Paradoxical Spiral. -- Chaos?  -- 00:48, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

I can see you really like your MoI bar, and infact your love of it has sparked my memory of a way you can actually use the build reliably, something I used in HB.

[build prof=a/w dagger=12+1+1 CRIT=12+1][Wastrel's Collapse][Tiger Stance][Falling Lotus Strike][Mark of Instability][Twisting Fangs][Falling Spider][Blades of Steel][optional][/build]

I believe it is an auto knock and means the hex can't be removed mid chain if you spike a monk, and means the hex doesn't have to wait around as long as the version you are using. Energy is a lot tighter but it can be pulled off. Since you love a bit of MoI you should try that, since I cba opening gw. --Frosty  17:31, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks man. I've messed around with that b4, only prob is it's not quite a quarter knock.  Honestly I use MoI first all the time in AB and never have probs with it getting removed.  Anyways, if you are willing to forgo the quarter knock for a powerful spike, this one is pretty fun and very reminiscentof the old bb sins:

[build prof=A/W tac=3 dag=12+1+1 cri=12+1][Flurry][Hammer Bash][Falling Lotus Strike][Twisting Fangs][Shove][Falling Spider][Blades of Steel][Dash][/build]
 * --Smity the Smith 17:41, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * See for a similar build to the shove one you posted (assuming Chaos doesn't mind). I saw that build on his userpage a few days ago and promptly stole it. So good and so fun. Tru ...hardly working 17:51, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember when he first posted that build a while ago, fun build fo sho --Smity the Smith 18:09, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's fine ^__^ Also, can you guys use minibars? Wherever Smity goes, talk pages get fucked up. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 18:32, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed something
"It's simply a matter of people not understanding the build and not knowing how to run it effectively. Have fun running the standard mind numbing build, I prefer using build which require skill and pwn ppl like you who run the generics." Thats the keystone signet nuker talk page. For some reason, it seems oddly familiar to another talk page. It's too bad no one cares about jq :/-- Relyk  talk  08:08, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol, you really hate the keystone nuker don't you? --Smity the Smith 17:28, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * What he is saying is that you're responding with just as much butthurt as all the other autists we laugh at on this site. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 17:32, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Chaos, perhaps you should read the build's talk page to get a sense for why I said that, there were people posting pure theory craft shit on it that clearly showed they had a poor understanding of how it works, same as the glimmering pet page. This kinda stuff happens when people do just that, make comments that reflect that they do not fully understand what is at work.  All this "drama" could be avoided if people were more intelligent. --<font color="Black">Smity the Smith  17:37, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Intelligence? Internet? lol <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 17:43, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * That still doesn't make you any less butthurt, nor does it make Glimmering Pet good. Lol. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 17:46, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not butthurt, I just like a good debate with LOGIC. --<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith 17:47, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Have fun running the standard mind numbing build, I prefer using build which require skill and pwn ppl like you who run the generics." -- DANDY ^_^ -- 18:54, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again chaos, if you would read the conversation to understand the context you might realize that quote was in response to Relyk's breaking away from logical discourse into name calling. --<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith 00:53, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * smity, there are so many fallacies in your logic its not even funny.-- Relyk  talk  00:59, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * coolstorybro--<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith 01:03, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * actually i hated that for every valid point you made, you made two or three invalid ones, gg-- Relyk  talk  01:11, June 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * The context of the discussion doesn't change what you said. I also don't think that taking your quote out of context changes the message one way or another. -- -Chaos- (moo!) -- 13:55, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The context does matter, Relyk was making arguements agaisnt the build which related to his difficulty in running it (ie build is bad cus it is hard to use), please see Backbreaker sin for why this is a bad arguement.  As I was trying to explain to him, once you get familiar with the build, most of the complaints he had are non issues since you know how to get around them.  The "pwn ppl who run the generics" part was in reference to RoJ, as the keystone mesmer can stop an RoJ nuke with one skill. --<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith  17:47, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Breaking down the original quoted post: Congratulations, you have provided a couple of retarded "arguments" as to why your build is supposedly superior. None of them are valid arguments that support the efficiency of your build one way or the other, instead they are subjective, and strongly biased as per all the arrogant ad hominems and like, claims that pretty much only tell what you think of the build and others.
 * ".. people not understanding the build and not knowing how to run it effectively." - Smells of QQ, and you claim that the others don't understand the build, which can be interpreted as ad hominem.
 * "Have fun running the standard mind numbing build" - Meta builds are boring so you should vett my build for being exciting and fresh. This is a common 'QQ-argument', to call it so. This is an ad hominem against regular builds. Boringness doesn't change their efficiency.
 * "I prefer using build which require skill and pwn ppl like you who run the generics" - My build is innovative and I win all of you noobs using the common builds. Smells so much of QQ that I might need to go vomit. Oh, fuck guys, another case of ad hominem! (This build requires skill so it's good)

Now, even if your build was the best build in the world and Relyk was a fucking twat who should be crucified through his ears and vagina after being given a quick-course of GW, how does that make any of your arguments more valid and less full of QQ?

Also, if you give me one more post full of as much autism as the ones above, I promise I won't be as patient as this time, and will likely NPA you to hell ^________^ -- -Chaos- (moo!) -- 18:18, June 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, guys, we need a Guide:Argumenting tbh. -- -Chaos- (moo!) -- 18:18, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You are evaluating my comment as if I had not already admitted that it was a non-logical response to relyks non-logical escape from the discussion. --<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith 19:54, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Link. -- -Chaos- (moo!) -- 20:18, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * keystone nuker look it up --<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith 20:36, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * ... Diffs to the specific comments or link(s) to the section. You are also a very brave debater for bringing it up at this point, when you ran into a wall of logic that you can't deny. Oh fuck, I realize I'm wrong now, so you all should realize that I admitted my stupidity ages ago and all you've said is redundant. That's a fucking weak defense, considering how you've above already defended your statement to the last, presumably after you've "already admitted that it was a non-logical response". -- -Chaos- (moo!) -- 13:33, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Frankly, you have no idea what you are talking about.. You think you can jump into something and understand it just by looking at one quote. You're attempts seem more like personalisms than any attempt to clear up the debate over the keystone nuker.  YOU HAVE SAID NOTHING AS TO THE NATURE OF THE DISCUSSION LEADING UP TO THE DRAMATIC ENDING. Why?  Because time and time again you attempt to stay out of meaningful build discussions.  I will stand by my statement as I was not the first to emotionally break from the discussion, and it dealt exactly with the discussion LEADING UP TO THAT POINT (which you don't bother to understand).  Also, time and time again, I merely attempt to discuss objective build facts, yet most people on here have trouble responding in an objective nature.  If for instance I am showing favor toward a build which might be deemed inferior, the fact that it is inferior should clearly immerge from factual discussion on it's usage details, but instead people ignore facts I state and or continue to post non-factual emotion based arguements. --<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith  21:14, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't get the image of an angry bald guy, furiously typing in a dark basement, tears streaming from his eyes out of my head. Also, I lol'd. -- Short 21:17, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do believe it's obvious that me pointing out that you're saying retarded things doesn't really have an outcome except for arguing, which is a perfectly good aim for me. -- -Chaos- (moo!) -- 22:06, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I recommend you all reduce your care levels. Oh and so I seem like I am adding something useful PvX:CHILL. <font color="#A55858">Misery  21:21, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * My current care levels are around hysterical laughter :p I do admit that at one point I wanted to fuck his eardrums into oblivion, though ^_^ -- -Chaos- (moo!) -- 22:06, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * All this drama is due to the sexual tension you experience when dealing with me. --<font face="Poor Richard"><font color="Black">Smity the Smith 22:15, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

The definition of culture: -- Oskar 00:08, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * a particular society at a particular time and place; "early Mayan civilization"
 * the tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group
 * acculturation: all the knowledge and values shared by a society
 * (biology) the growing of microorganisms in a nutrient medium (such as gelatin or agar); "the culture of cells in a Petri dish"
 * polish: a highly developed state of perfection; having a flawless or impeccable quality; "they performed with great *polish"; "I admired the exquisite refinement of his prose"; "almost an inspiration which gives to all work that finish which is almost art"--Joseph Conrad
 * the attitudes and behavior that are characteristic of a particular social group or organization; "the developing drug culture"; "the reason that the agency is doomed to inaction has something to do with the FBI culture"
 * grow in a special preparation; "the biologist grows microorganisms"
 * the raising of plants or animals; "the culture of oysters"
 * I'll be an oyster with you any day oskar-- Relyk  talk  02:49, July 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Definition of pearl: A piece of rubbish covered with the diseased secretions of a dying mollusk-- Oskar 10:47, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

GW JUST WENT DOWN !@#!@
what do i do Smity 23:23, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Flail
So I've been using warrior in PvE alot more recently, and noticed that flail is the standard IAS on about every pve warrior build on here. What I have noticed is that flail seriously decreases your overall DPS (and ability to recharge SY!) since you snare yourself and have a hard time getting from enemy to enemy unless they are conveniently all confined to one small space and don't move around. The only cancel stance in most of these builds is enraging, which doesn't solve the problem since it is used at the beginning to build adrenalin, and has a 20 second recharge. The only builds IMO that should use flail are knock-down spammers. Enduring Scythe and Enduring Daggers are really hurt by flail and do not really need it since they use increased activation attack skills. Drunken master is a much better choice for each of these builds even without alcohol. My 2 cents. Smity 05:12, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * use ymlad, problem solved. or just kill stuff before it kites. or bring sprint if you cbf-- Relyk  talk  09:27, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem is stuff is killed b4 I can get to it usually with flail up. YMLAD is a good suggestion tho. Smity 18:55, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

hey
chance your vote on the Contagion Bomber, you cant down-vote it because its inferior to RoJ Monks. monks=/=necro's. also, while your at it, vote 3/3 on all the N/Rt healing builds because their inferior to monk heals /end sarcasm--Bluetapeboy 19:38, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * tranquility natures renewal--Oskar 19:44, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not getting into a fight about the bomber, but N/Rt's inferior to monks? There's a reason N/Rt's are so popular google soul reaping and restoration magic. Smity 08:27, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * and tranquility natures renewal--Oskar 14:10, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: I changed my reasoning on the Contagion Bomber. Smity 16:35, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Your signature
You need to have it link to your userpage or your talk. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor 01:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Smity Smitington 01:19, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

"On a scale of 1 to idiot, how terrible am I?"
We've been over this, but i still love you. Also that scale would go from 1 to 1...-- Relyk  talk  00:52, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh man I think you could do better than that.  I was also hoping you would through some other people into the insult train. Smity Smitington 00:55, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * minion, jai, and cuilan are way fucking worse than you. chieftain alex and gwpirate are about the same. falrach and saxon are a little better than you but they're both 12 years old. amor is the only one equivocally better than you-- Relyk  talk  03:03, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What are you, God? 71.127.10.226 10:16, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

You just violated PvX:1RV on GG pressure :/-- Relyk  talk  03:36, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you have a rather distorted view of things, Relyk, because you're extremely shitty yourself. :/ Also, I take offense at Minion even being mentioned in the same sentence as me. Minion is on a far, far lower level than me, and I also don't remember Cuilan doing anything to be as fucking retarded as Minion or GWPirate. And also in my defense, I was one of the (many) people against that glimmering pet build, and I've never used those common scrub mentalities ("if you're good it works", "if you'd only test it!"). I do theorycraft more than I should (which is because I never actually play GW), but that doesn't put me on the same level as GWPirate and the like. -- Jai . -  08:19, February 27 2011 (UTC)
 * N x 10^1000th generation of PvXers arguing who of the remaining scrubs are to be higher up in the pecking order. Unless you have an immortal authority status, like Crow for PvP, it really doesn't matter. Fuck who says something, focus on what they say. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 17:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * what pecking order, they're all bad :<-- Relyk  talk  23:09, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha ha, you wish you were at my level!-- GWPirate 关 21:17, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What is meant by "amor is the only one equivocally better than you"? Also, jai, I only use those arguements againts theory craft nubs like yourself. Glimmering pet would never have become such a drama fest if it weren't for theory crafters providing terrible arguements. Glimmering Pet was a creative concept and is to this day the highest single target dps ele build there is.  Due to it's lack of utility I agree that it is not pvx material.  However, do you remember submitting locust fury sin at the same time dagger spam was around? My build actually had something unique to offer, yours was just terrible. Smity Smitington 20:35, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I love the "you are all bad, I am (or my build is) better than all of you" attitude that permeates that entire culture of the PvXwiki community... Like Dandy said, who the fuck cares who says what? Everyone has said horribly stupid things and incredibly brilliant things at the same time.  For some people, that ratio is skewed on one way or another but does it really matter?   Lania Elderfire 21:02, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You're all bad. I am better (along with my builds) better than all of you... except for Dandy. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 21:05, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I only get into these kind of debates when others bring my name into them. Otherwise I never go around calling people terrible and reminding them of past builds... Smity Smitington 21:08, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * All griefing aside, subjectively, people only suck compared to who is currently the best players in the game. Relatively, we're all bad compared to past players. See it as you will. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 21:11, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * For the record, I am relatively terrible. Lania Elderfire 21:14, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * For the record, this sentence is a sentence. (responding to a redundant statement with another redundant statement). Smity Smitington 21:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

For the record, writing novels about GW players is so 2009. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]   21:50, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * For the record, Vincent is better than everyone... at AB. And since he has a henchman named after him, can't go wrong there.-- Relyk  talk  23:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Argument from Popularity. Judging people based on single mistakes in the past. Circumstantial Ad Hominem. Looks like you're the shitter. 71.127.10.226 10:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd make a nice reputation as a skilled debater if I'd point out all the fallacies in sarcastic statements.
 * It also appears to me that it's not so much an argument from popularity as from authority. Refer to previously pointed out irrelevance, though: nobody gives a gentle fuck because nobody was being serious.
 * Sorry for being mean to you, IP! I appreciate your value as a human being whoever you turn out to be! You guys need to stop being funny :p then I can become Mr. Pleasant again! -- DANDY ^_^ -- 18:06, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * :-)... When are you NOT mr. pleasant Dandy? ;-) Lania Elderfire 18:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, "On a scale of 1 to idiot, how terrible am I?" That's not a scale, idiot. -- Jai . -  20:30, March 1 2011 (UTC)
 * Shit i didn't realize that Smity Smitington 05:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought i was clever in saying it would go from 1 to 1, but alas-- Relyk  talk  09:03, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Weak?
You know it pretty much kills a monk with full health?Caplan 01:18, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The sin spike? It's pretty pitiful tbh. Smity Smitington 01:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Vote on Keystone Nuker
I phrased it badly in my vote removal, but you should actually provide reasoning. --  Toraen   talk  14:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

5 Votes
to change a tag. --  Toraen   talk  03:36, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sry, thought I saw 5, was mistaken. Smity Smitington 14:19, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

unnecessary long bunch of text
what? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smity Smitington (talk &bull; contribs) 19:55, 11 August 2011 (UTC).
 * You're seeing some of the growing pains associated with Phen's update of the site using the dev server. He's working on it. --  Toraen   talk  01:12, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ah, ok. No worries. Smity Smitington 03:26, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

That vote
Actually change your reasoning if you want to revote. --  Toraen   talk  16:00, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

scythe vs. axe
I'll try to explain it but you'd have to play both since you're not likely to understand. The main point of using scythe over axe is the AoE effect. This increases DPS from hitting multiple foes with DW from Wearying Strike, Power Attack, and Victorious Sweep. Now you would think aoe attacks is always better, but most of your AoE damage comes from splinter weapon and SoH in addition to bonus damage from attacks. Both the scythe and axe do the same meager damage regularly. You really only need Cyclone Axe for using SW efficiently. You have Whirlwind Attack for more AoE damage for triggering SW and finishing off foes. Keep in mind with a scythe, you don't have an on demand AoE attack; you'll be giving use Wearying Strike for eremite's attack and even then it can't be spammed every 4 seconds. Your adrenaline building relies mostly on AoE hits. Axes have the single target advantage because Dismember spam. Unless you're microing Weaken Armor for using Body Blow on scythe, you can't spam wearying scythe fast enough for quickly taking down single foes. The other advantage of axe is the fact you get a shield, it allows you to zerg a group instead of focusing on balling and attacking. To summarize, axes focus more on taking single targets down, triggering SW on spikes, and shield allows more leeroying ability. The scythe is purely for training groups down, it builds adrenaline quickly by hitting multiple foes to spam body blow, whirlwind attack, etc. Axe is ideal for elite areas when you need to take down healers or deliver a spike (Melee hate in a few areas makes relying on Whirlwind Attack shitty). Scythe will be superior only if you're confident in taking down key targets and keeping yourself clean, and just want to train groups to death. A good example is frostmaw, axe isn't very useful since you constantly get snared and enemies are spread out. You're better off using scythe since it allows you to take down Wurm spawns quickly and take down groups your unlikely to get a clean spike with axe on. I prefer axe since it lends itself as being more flexible and frees up your secondary. You can't use scythe in deep, urgoz, Duncan; bring the awesome cancel stance called Dash; or generally be as flexible with available skill choice.-- Relyk 01:18, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * sins can use axe with just as much effectiveness as a war Smity Smitington 16:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Cept with less damage Rawr 18:25, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * And armour. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 18:46, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * and no shock. --82.75.192.76 19:06, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * With higher crit chance and the fact that most of the damage comes from SoH and splinter the less damage argument is trivial. The less armour argument is trivial because crit agility gives armor and a sin can use a shield too, granted crit agility can be stripped, but there are ways around that, not to mention the difference in armor is trivial anyways in pve.  And random IP, just no, this is not in reference to a pvp build, if ur running shock in pve u should unistall.  Also, you can't just highlight the perks of using warrior and ignore the perks of using sin.  The sin has stronger mobility and a better elite. Smity Smitington 19:21, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Why are we comparing across profession in PvE again? Also, relyk seems to be talking about scythe vs. axe (on a warrior, but it basically applies to using either on a sin), not Crit Axe vs. Enduring Axe. --  Toraen   talk  19:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This all started because of critical axe sin. I'm trying to make the argument that sins should have more options on this wiki for general pve/hero teams usage by comparing the number of options the warrior has on here.  It is illogical that we store a war dagger build and a war axe build yet we cant store a sin axe build even though the primary professions of each have little baring on the effectiveness of each weapon when it comes to wars and sins. Smity Smitington 19:47, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * And there we are once more, let me say: "Told ya so!" <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 19:48, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't the actual question, what's a stronger attribute, critical strikes or strength (a.k.a armour penetration) Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 19:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Say, 14 in strength: 14% AP, every hit. Crit, 20%, every 2/3 hits. I don't know, do the maths. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 19:52, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not just about which attribute does more damage, it also has to do with crits energy gain effect, which allows stronger elites (such is triple chop, which is basically a power attack that hits a 360 degree radius of foes, how is that not good when a warriors option is a purely emanagement elite?), and skills available only to critical sins (critical agility), which make them more mobile/less adrenalin requiring compared to a war with flail. Smity Smitington 19:57, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, I am trying to stress that it is not really about which profession is stronger, but my point is that sins need more options, there is an imbalance in this wiki when you look at the options we have for wars then look at options for paras and sins and even rangers. Smity Smitington 19:59, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * specifically the point being that if axe is soo good on warrior, then it can also be good on sin para and ranger. It doesn't make sense to say that since axe is not the primary prof of these classes that they are ineffective with it when we store a war dagger build. Smity Smitington 20:03, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That's because the only thing assassins are good in are farming and daggering. Deadly Arts is a dead attribute, so is SA outside farms. Crit strike for the purpose of e-management only is bad, it makes you unable to take a second profession for utility. A basic critical strikes bar makes you able to go secondary professions, providing the universality. Fixed builds don't <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * that is clearly incorrect when you look at the sin axe build and sin scythe build, they are prefectly capabile of using axe to an effectiveness degree relatively equal to that of a warrior. And sins aren't just for farming, have you heard of PvE missions and story line? Smity Smitington 20:06, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * have you read my complete message? <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There are few "universal options" which you would even want to bring with an axe build. A basic crit strikes bar would be bad because there are too mainy options.  Why dont we make a base warriors endurance build?  Cus that would be dumb... Smity Smitington 20:12, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Use ctrl+f, type in dagger and look in my message. Sins are good for farming and daggering, end of discussion. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:13, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * yea dude i already acknowledged that incorrect statement. You didn't back up why they are only good for daggering when they clearly can run a multitude of weapons just as well as the primary profession of those weapons.  And they are not just for farming, maybe that is the end goal of making a sin, but we also need builds on here for completing story line.  Don't tell me you would be perfectly content using the same dry dagger spam build for all 4 campaigns. Smity Smitington 20:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am, I also use a scythe, but I don't need to post every build I use. Noooo, a scythe is maybe useful vs balled people, but PvE rolling isn't about balling. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You seem to be missing the point. If axe is a great option for warriors, than it should be for sins as well since they can run an equivalent axe build, and there is nothing which makes sins hella more powerful with daggers than warriors. Smity Smitington 20:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * tbh, I don't rate daggers on anything other than a sin. I hold the same view on most other melee professions, (aside from the old critscythe due to broken scythe criticals) Nothing is as much of an energy engine as a sin with 33% IAS and 1/4 attack speed dagger skills with 14 CS. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 20:25, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

and the fight continues
Sorry, I hate the ":", no, if healing is a great option for monks, it should be for warriors soon since they can run something equivalent. Don't make me actually believe you just wanted to use that as an argument <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:27, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Warriors can't run something equivalent to a monk healer. That's where your comparison falls apart. --  Toraen   talk  20:28, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I can run the same RA build from a monk on a warrior, don't tempt me! <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:29, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not equivalent due to reduced energy pool, energy regen, and lack of divine favor which is needed to boost the heals. --  Toraen   talk  20:31, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Warrior has 20 energy, 2 energy regen, has strength. Assassin has 25 energy, 4 energy regen, has critical stikes for EXTRA energy. And he just compared them for the sake of that. I can still run a warrior monk. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:33, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * An assassin and a warrior each with an axe build will do roughly comparable DPS (which does more depends on the armor of the foes faced, and whether WE or an open elite is better in that situation). A Warrior and a Monk each with a healing build will do hilariously disparate jobs at healing (the monk wins hands down). --  Toraen   talk  20:36, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Look, I know that, but don't say I can't go on a warrior and use the build :P. And the DPS, I think assassin's have the best DPS using daggers, and daggers only. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:37, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * In terms of single target damage. An axe has a different usage: AoE spikes with single-target training as a bonus. Daggers do single target training... and that is it (but they do it the best). A sword would do amazing AoE spikes and pitiful single-target (DW that only works on fleshy foes is mostly the reason for this) or utility and single-target via DS+SY (WWA for some AoE). A scythe gets respectable-to-amazing AoE spikes and AoE training of foes (but any profession other than dervish has to make sacrifices in utility to use it). --  Toraen   talk  20:42, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I just don't expect balls, ever. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:43, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * They're not hard to make, and speed content up if you do it right. There will be stragglers if you're not practiced at it, and sometimes even then though which is why single target capability is still relevant for clean up. --  Toraen   talk  20:45, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That's why daggers are perfect. Put in a MoP or simply Splinter, Spam 1-2-3, use Death Blossom for AoE (rhyme), and boom boom, you win <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:46, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Blindly arguing with people who are better than you doesnt make you seem like a good player, they have disproven your statements, you're just making yourself look like a complete retard.86.185.178.88 20:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Says a user <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:54, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone being registered or not doesn't mean they're outright right or wrong shadow. You'd do well to remember that! <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  21:22, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * and who are you? ;) <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan  <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 21:25, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I never listen to users, I told that several times. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 21:54, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * So, my registering and signing into an account affects the validity of my statement? herp derp. I swear the more I see you post, Shadow, the more intellectually inept you seem.86.185.178.88 22:18, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't, it makes me actually care about a statement at the first place <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 05:09, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Qué? That's what he just said. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 05:16, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, whether an argument is invalid or not =/= whether I myself care about it or not <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 05:18, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ignoring potentially valid arguments because someone isn't logged in is quite stupid. --  Toraen   talk  05:23, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * They mostly aren't even valid, so I created a habit of disliking IP user comments. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 05:25, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

You could apply that exact same reasoning to comments from logged in users around here. Using a broad filter like that isn't going to help since it's not related to skill at all. --  Toraen   talk  05:43, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think users most of the time aren't even pro themselves. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 05:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Shadow what the fuck, you just repeated and denied what Toraen just said. /pulls hair out. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 07:55, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

My nicely typed, in-depth paragraph was completely ignored :( Like I expected it not to degrade into Dagger Warrior vs. Axe Assassin and SFS trolling shit. You have more flexibility and less trouble trying to make the build work using Daggers as opposed to Axe. I fear this is a totally subjective and incomprehensible statement.-- Relyk 09:18, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Daggers>Axe, end of discussion. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 09:34, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Relyk, I feared you would think I ignored your paragraph. It was great tbh, and you perfectly highlighted the pros and cons of using axe vs scythe too, which is nice considering a lot of the votes on critical axe said that scythe is always better.  And you are giving SFS way too much credit by calling him a troll. Smity Smitington 16:04, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Aaaaaw, what's your next move, kiss his ass? <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 16:33, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There is really no point in conversing with you. People try and try yet you continue to be your ignorant self.  Good luck Smity Smitington 16:35, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Plz archive this before I want to continue! FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 16:38, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Shadow, stop being fucking retarded. Smity, axe on a sin is bad because there is very little reason to run it over daggers on a sin. DB provides AoE as well, and the rediculous attack speed of JS>FF>DB provides more synergy in general with stuff like MoP and Splinter Weapon. It doesn't work to compare sins with a specific weapon to wars with a specific weapon. Axe benefits more from balling than daggers do, and a warrior is a hell of a lot better at balling/tanking (130AL with IAU) than a sin. Dagger war is still a good build, and is probably one of the best ones for cspace, which is what you seem to be saying the axe sin is made for... -- Jai . -  20:02, September 10 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and I'm sure this page is going straight to the PvX hall of fame. -- Jai . -  20:04, September 10 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't the first one from Smity <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:05, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Goddamit dude
Can you ever do anything that doesn't bring on a week or two of drama? -- Jai . -  19:57, September 10 2011 (UTC)
 * It's sort of PvX's fault as well. With their policies on rerolling or what not. Other than that though, seriously, cause some more drama why don't you? <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 20:45, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The majority of GW'ers are scrubs who cbf'd to change their main from an ele or ranger. Unfortunately, that means we really should at least partially cater to those kinds of people. -- Jai . -  20:52, September 10 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea I've realized by now that I am a huge drama bomb on this site. My bad, I guess, although at least it is mildly entertaining, until shit gets too out of hands and insults start flying. haha.  Btw, how the hell do I archive this page? Smity Smitington 00:15, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If you want to keep the history here, then just copy+paste the whole page to User:Smity Smitington/Archive 3. You might want to keep the last section or so after archiving so we can continue to beat the current topic to fucking death. Alternatively, you can move the page to the above spot, and that will move the history page to the archive. Obviously make sure to keep the archive box on this page (and add archive 3) and such. -- Jai . -  14:48, September 11 2011 (UTC)

rawr
Here you go-- Relyk 08:10, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Now if I were to tell you that I knew you were going to write something that big all along and that it was just part of my plan, how would that make you feel? Lol, jk.  Good work, I suppose the argument has been laid to rest. Smity Smitington 17:34, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If you hadn't noticed, I do such very much on my own accord.-- Relyk 01:24, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Mo/A Dagger Spam
When will wiki be ready for this? Smity Smitington 16:27, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I dont know about the wiki, but im ready dude, ready and eager!!  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 17:52, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * We all know what you are ready for Smity Smitington 17:59, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * You sound so patronising(?)...  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 18:03, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I guess that pretty much answers my question Smity Smitington 18:32, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * See? i just saved urself and the wiki 2 more months of drama...but still, im curious, what wud that build be? shield of judgement+fox trinity+brawling headbutt+stonesoul strike? here is an idea...u can pick up where i left, f u want...  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 18:47, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * please use toilets for shitting not my talk page Smity Smitington 18:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I cant, im a gipsy, you do know we live on trailers, right?? no toilets there, im afraid... now, seriously, that was rude, u didnt have to say that, did you? somehow i think that this kind of attitude is what triggers some of the hate that seems to permeate most of the comments against u made in these pages; and I, enormous, dont wanna be part of that hate clan...  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 19:02, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm just poetically stating that your arguments are shit, that's all bra, nothing personal. Smity Smitington 20:46, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Reset indent(i wrote it, consider it as if it was reset); Really? thats what u meant? Who would have thought!! Ure so good i totally fail to grasp when u use irony... that happens with ur builds too, btw... now seriously, is that build coming out or what?!  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 20:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

[build prof=Mo/A Dagger=12 Smiting=12+3+1][Jagged Strike][Fox Fangs][Death Blossom][Ray of Judgment][Brawling Headbutt][Holy Strike][Strength of Honor][Drunken Master][/build]
 * Behold; THE MOSSASSIN!!1 Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:12, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, because showing bad implementations of an idea is a great way to argue against an idea. Smity Smitington 21:13, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think im gonna make a physway 2011 page where it is just all frenzy heal sig warriors with random elementalist skills because clearly that is the best way to say that physway is a bad concept. Smity Smitington 21:16, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't quite see your logic, Smity. I was being serious. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:21, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think a successful monk dagger spam build would incorporate some e-management as to actually be able to use dagger skills. I also think that it wouldn't maintain SoH as most hero setups already have a smiter and it just hurts your energy to do so.  It wouldn't use RoJ because that means it would be casting spells when it should be attacking and balling (and no, you dont ball then use RoJ cus u will get rupted and by the time u get roj off you could have gotten an eniter chain off with splinter).  You are either trying to argue against the concept with that build or you are just really bad at gw to think that that would work at all. Smity Smitington 21:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * oh, and it's not even about balling so please don't talk about balling. Smity Smitington 21:27, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If it's not about balling, how are you abusing Splinter with daggers? You know that requires balling to pull off well? (at least, so you can justify taking a dagger build on a monk). Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:31, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Minion, throughout the whole caster dagger and critical axe drama you have been extremely inconsistent on your stance with balling so when I hear you talk about balling i tend to tldr. Btw, examples of bars which would actually work include:

k Smity Smitington 21:36, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * "   I've tried Crit sword before, it's really boring and ineffective unless you ball every single mob. The single-target damage is lolweak.MinionMinion sig k bish.jpg 19:48, 10 September" Smity Smitington 21:42, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did say that. I'm not being inconsistent, but no one wants to ball everything, and if you can't spike a foe down you have a problem. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:57, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * And those aren't exactly Mo/A bars, they're just your any/A bars again... Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:59, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

-- Relyk 22:05, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * or you could just run this: http://www.gwpvx.com/User:Smity_Smitington/AP_Smite_Spiker and not have to worry about missing foes. Smity Smitington 22:08, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * (@Excluded): There aren't really any monk skills that you would want to put on a mo/a dagger spam build. The idea of making it Mo/A instead of any/A is to narrow it down and vet it for a specific profession so that ppl don't bitch about mesmers or necros or even eles having better options. Smity Smitington 22:12, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

This page is frigging hilarious! xD <font color="Black">Vorpal  22:19, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

-- Relyk 22:33, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * interesting option relyk although I would put SoH on hero Smity Smitington 22:43, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * ^It's a winnner. There must be something better you can put on that hero, when you replace SoH. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 22:44, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I still find it counter productive to dagger spam to be using any skills on targets besides dagger attacks (to a certain extent, AP is fine and shouts are obviously fine but strike skills....). Also, u should really be using YMLaD for getting to foes once there dagger spam away Smity Smitington 22:47, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * fuck that, i want my unblockable 200 damage opener before spamming. and most likely replace soh with finish him or shadow fang-- Relyk 22:56, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Ah!! This is pretty much like a bomb!! All it takes is the right fuse... It has started!!!!!!!  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 22:49, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * fuse?? <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 20:53, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

These are all very interesting ideas, but still i think shield of judgement should have its own build, it has its merits... and we should find a way to incorporate balthasar aura (i think its what its called), its frigging awsome holy dmg, i totally see myself doing fendi dungeon on that alone...  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 22:58, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * shield of judgment might actually be interesting.. but i can't tell if you are being sarcastic. Srsly though, Relyk/Toraen/admins would it be a good idea to create this page? Smity Smitington 23:12, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is a splendid idea, go for it dude!!83.240.216.175 08:22, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Mo/A dagger spam is best when none of the skills are monk skills (except, perhaps, prot spirit); there's no need to try some theorycraft smite/dagger hybrid. Tbh, though, it isn't worth the drama, and there would be countless votes telling the player to run another profession that wouldn't get removed. AegisDok 03:48, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
 * doubt it, beyond admittedly nice damage from stonesoul/holy strike damage (only if enemies can be kded), it'll be trashed for caster daggers and to use AP spiker or RoJ-- Relyk 07:00, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Your builds
Is the pvp section all trolling? Rawr 11:32, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately not. :( -- Jai . -  11:37, September 23 2011 (UTC)
 * Pretty old stuff, some of them are still good tho Smity Smitington 15:55, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

hi!
UR RLY BAD! THx! Chieftain Alex 19:18, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * u must speak in autism to speak to autists. Smity Smitington 19:22, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * wat dis sekret codelanguage they b speak, i cant nderstand word of it -- DANDY ^_^ -- 00:01, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
 * for reference. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  00:04, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
 * jargon jargon. fok it ima use google translate. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 00:19, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey
To start off, don't call me bad, thanks. Why would you use a 58 damage 20s recharge skill over the other 2 options with more/the same damage and less recharge? Are you stupid? Thanks &mdash;  skakid 
 * Also, there's no other mention of Castigation Signet on the talk page, so no, officially we never "went over this". &mdash;  skakid  18:40, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * urbad. There's niche use for smite sigs in undead areas. Otherwise you are correct that SoC/SoS is optimal. Either way, removing them was not the best option. There was no discussion to remove it either (mentioned in my August 27 note)-- Relyk 18:42, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * variants section pal &mdash;  skakid 
 * Ok, I digress, displaced anger at you. But we did go over this before with different people when we put the note on castigation signet.  You are probably right that it belongs in variants Smity Smitington 18:48, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
 * sorry, I'm furiously caffeinated right now and bored at work. didn't mean to be mean :D &mdash;  skakid 
 * I personally prefer them in variants, I was waiting on discussion before doing that. Mostly because I didn't really give a shit where they're placed...-- Relyk 03:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

You did not
Actually return right? Now I really am returning to the shadow Umbra   colloqui de "Shadow"  15:51, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've never really gone. I still lurk from time to time, just haven't been playing gw so haven't had much to contribute Smity Smitington 15:59, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Now, please pledge to the PvX book of honour and swear you did not return to support Minion Umbra   colloqui de "Shadow"  16:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * god no. not that I even know what you are talking about Smity Smitington 17:00, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Minion got himself a block of 3 months for general autism Umbra   colloqui de "Shadow"  17:02, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * about fricken time Smity Smitington 17:03, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, you grew up. Now you make proper builds and you can replace "wiki drama" for anything that actually is proper. :D. Welcome back! Umbra   colloqui de "Shadow"  17:11, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
 * yes.. this is my plan... Smity Smitington 17:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Sig for you
Because I'm particularly bored. -- <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">I smite thee!! on 01:52, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

<font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">I smite thee!!  on,    (UTC)

Or if it doesn't all fit:  on,   (UTC)


 * Thanks, I do say it is quite fitting. Smite Hex.jpg <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">I smite thee <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 04:43, February 21 2012 (UTC)'' 04:43, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, forgot to mention you only have to sign with three tildes, otherwise you get a double timestamp. Also, I fixed the italics problem on your sig page. And upload your own version of Smite Hex before Toraen gets mad! You can adjust the image's size too (max 19px), I just found 16px to be appealing to me. -- Jai .  -  05:57, February 21 2012 (UTC)
 * I did it for you because it's 8 am and I am bored D: <font color="Black">Frostels 07:45, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * wow thanks guys! Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">I smite thee <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 15:33, February 21 2012 (UTC)

--  Smitie Wobblerdahl-Toddlersson  -- 16:33, February 23 2012 (UTC)

--  Smitie Wobblerdalh-Toddlersson --,   (UTC)

yo -- DANDY ^_^ -- 16:33, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

i always thought it was with a "short" i, not the long "i". D: &mdash;  ska  19:10, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * it was intended to be like "Smite", but a lot of ppl said it like "Smit", so anyway goes. And thanks for the sig Dandy but the text seems more trollish and reminiscent of some of my earlier sigs which constantly got me yelled at ;) Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">I smite thee <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 23:44, February 23 2012 (UTC) 23:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

please include at least "smity" in your signature so i don't have to hover over the link to figure out who you are. PW:SIGN and all that. Danny 17:15, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ya hit the nail on the head! Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 17:22, April 4 2012 (UTC) 17:22, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Use three tildes instead of 4. :P -- Jai .  -  14:09, April 10 2012 (UTC)
 * lol srsly? Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 14:11, April 10 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, lulz. -- Jai .  -  14:12, April 10 2012 (UTC)
 * ic, thanks for pointing that out. /doh Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 14:13, April 10 2012 (UTC) 14:13, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

One of your Vetts
Hey, Innoruuk here from "2 man uw farm." Your reasons listed make absolutely no sense as to your current rating of my build. Any tank worth his/her salt won't get interrupted. Also, why bother with mantra of resolve in chamber unless you intend to tank the whole thing in one go (which with an SB you cannot due to the fact it runs out with at least 8 seconds of recharge remaining and thus any nightmare will strip all enchantments. I have yet to die on this build and 50 mins for 3 areas of uw without relying on a speedclear set is very efficient. It's much faster than the dual rit combo. Av/Sv also acts merely as a way of improving efficiency, and Shroud of distress should have obviously occurred to you to be the noob-proof version. And, an attack will go through it, it's an insurance policy. The second an attack does go through, SB triggers, the blocking stops, and everything resumes. That shouldn't be hard to understand. A smite that can't heal or strip hexes dies 2x faster than a group that can. And no current tank/ss combo can complete chamber and wastes in 50 minutes. furthermore, your rating should be discussed on the build page out of respect, not left without a means of contact. Please reconsider, as you have seriously erred in your current understanding of the build. Innoruuk 03:08, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You handle the first few aatxes to the left or right, combined with the skele, some graspings which might have spawned, and up to two nightmares (usually). Then, you take the rest of the room, including the quest spawns in one go.  Then, you move toward the reaper statue, and you can technically take the entire room (minus dryders), although splitting into two can be easier and sometimes just as fast depending on the current position and direction of each group.  I can further explain if you like, but monks can grab huge mobs, the size of which the sin tank would not be able to handle.  They then move on quickly to then next, which is nuked insanely fast by the nuker, again.  Most of the ecto dropping material can be farmed in under twenty minutes (all aatxes, smites, and most of the skeletons).  The monk may have a more difficult time handling mind blades, but mind blades are possible, and are mostly dangerous because of their ai (tendency to attack the nuker), something which the "2 man uw farm" could also face.  It is not clear from the build page, but if the build farms all of the quests, that is at least something it has going for it, although I am doubtful that this would warrant spending 50 mins. I could raise my vote for it being perhaps an easier build to run, but voting purely on comparability, it seems like trash, unless you can convince me that people looking to farm these areas would choose the sin build for profitability over the monk.  Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 07:19, April 23 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. One could also argue that my build is superior for black widow runs however. The key to beating mindblade specters is preemptive enchantment (av/sv), grabbing the melee, and cornering the mindblades. 12 seconds (11?) easily covers this. For the 1st group, one simply has to wait for the 2nd pair of aatxes to arrive. The mesmer arrives at the base of the stairs, the tank on the edge of the aggro circle. AV, mesmer runs, triggers mindblades, tank intercepts, and uses right wall trick. Mesmer uses other Visage, and the mindblades are locked just out of range. Spam wastrel's on the aatxes since the spell has a 1 second recharge. Even Leech Signet fails against it. Once the mindblades are down, focus on the aatxes. Once again, if the assassin gets interrupted, the SOD cover helps keep it from instantly dying. I always cast my prot spirit 7 seconds ahead of its expiration just in case. If I've been rupted on that or SB, AV/SV will take care of remaining energy/adrenaline and I can recast the spell after taking a couple seconds of recovery. In terms of time, the build is certainly capable of tanking the entirety of the first chamber room, but the spam on such a large group renders drops to be paltry at best. Now, 3 areas including the entirety of the vale quest in 50 minutes still sounds very good to me. Also, Wastrel's worry ends 50% faster on vale spirits and is thus the DEFINITE superior spike for that area. Innoruuk 23:31, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are going to do a spider run, you wouldn't use either build, but just bring some heroes. Farming quests which don't give ecto is just a waste of time.  Wastrel's nuker can be very nice indeed, but the bar you have seems sub par, and even then, wastrels spam is a lot of work, when illusion spam pumps comparable DPS with out any special preparations or ballings, and is actually much faster at some tasks (like cleaning up straggling foes, especially casters).  Get keystone out of there because its DPS is laughable compared to the other two.  Also, there is nothing wrong with good old SS, it is extremely fast and flexible.  As far as which tank is better, you are essentially running a monk build on a sin, just to have 100% spell protection, at the cost of being more dependent on the nuker spamming AV/SV, and therefore less able to grab huge mobs independently of the nuker.  There is going to be a solid 2 seconds of SoA downtime on the sin, during which time you might be susceptible to exploding given a large enough pull.  I would agree that the sin has the upper hand doing quests, and might be an easier option, especially for people more familiar with shadow form tanking.  Seeing that monk can operate independently of the nuker and has more reliable prot, and that the sin is better for quests and perhaps smaller pulls, I guess there is a calling for each.  You're page is still trash until you fix the nukers tho.  Also, you mentioned getting worse drops with larger pulls.  I don't think that is the case for rare materials, the drop rates are the same no matter what (they are even the same in HM as they are in NM, which is why I wonder why you would ever want to do HM with these two builds, considered HM ai). Perhaps we should do a build merge, since they essentially are the exact same concept and usage.  Show both tank variants, and multiple nuker variants (dom, illusion, curses, and heck, if you can convince us that keystone is good, that too). Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 00:13, April 24 2012 (UTC)
 * The build CAN operate 100% independently of the nuker :P. It just does it a different way. And still, and I just tested this. Illusion spammer does not quite equate in damage. 5 seconds to kill a group in difference in favor of the dom spike. The blinding also can cause problems especially if all spells become exhausted (which they will considering aatxes have 1150 health. As per the merger, we could go with that, although the original build page would have to be renamed to something very close to mine anyway. As per keystone, it's actually pretty quick with the fast casting additions to signet cast time. Innoruuk 00:50, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * So, which nuker do you like best? Innoruuk 02:52, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it is rare that I can nuke with an experienced tank, so I generally use illusion since it is forgiving of the tank, and has rebirth. I have always loved SS and still think it is easily second fastest of them all, and pretty easy to use.  Wastrel's spam definitely kicks ass, but it is somewhat tedious, and like I said, it is hard to find a tank to use it with.  So, it is hard to say a favorite, but given a great tank, it is a toss up between SS and Wastrels, depending on how much effort I want to give. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 03:25, April 25 2012 (UTC)
 * You guys do realize I changed the illusion build right? There is no blind and it's pretty damn fast. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 04:04, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yea, I saw that. I think I have experimented with echo in the past as well.  DPS wise, the wastrels bar still has it beat.  You can pump 100 aoe dps a second just with wastrels spam, and famine on top of that just turns it into madness.  The thing I like about the ineptitude bar is that it is more on demand, and with 12 fast casting and a 40/40 set, you don't have much downtime between casts on average.  Depends on the tank tbh. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 04:35, April 25 2012 (UTC)
 * Ineptitude isn't on the bar. You're comparing a build that isn't on the page. Ineptitude is retarded in this situation as the tank needs energy and echoing wandering eye produces only a tiny bit less damage. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 04:41, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It is a variant on the page, and it is a variant in real life independent of pvxwiki. It is at the digression of the tank if ineptitude is ok, and I know that it works with the right tank.  What happens is that during the balling process, energy is typically raised to maximum, so it is possible to withstand the significantly decreased number of hits during the brief nuking process. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 04:53, April 25 2012 (UTC)
 * The question isn't if it's possible or not, the question is "is it beneficial" and the answer is no. You can do this exact same thing with an SS Necro. Is it beneficial over the echo bar? No. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 05:53, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You really over simplify things, and I am not trying to attack your variant. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 06:01, April 25 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't feel attacked at all, I'm trying to help you get your build pushed and you're not really giving me reasoning on why you think ineptitude is so great in this situation. I apologize if I was coming off as hostile, just a bit confused at this point. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 06:48, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess I should be more specific as well, Ineptitude is adjacent range which isn't optimal with 600's, seeing as you have to stop constantly to refresh enchants the chance of you getting surrounded is high. Wandering Eye is nearby, this ensures you get maximum effect for your AoE as well as not killing your tanks energy. Ineptitude doesn't push out enough damage to counter the energy lost in most situations. Me and Relyk did a ton of testing and build tweaking and the echo variant is the one we found to work the fastest without any drawbacks (for illusion). I have no doubt wastrel's spamming is faster, we were just messing with illusion spells that time! Just clarifying so you know where I'm coming from. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 06:52, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think the adjacent vs. nearby argument holds very much weight, as it is the tanks job to properly ball, and many of the nuking variants offer only adjacent damage. In the end, the build with pushes the most DPS is the best, and echo is probably that, which is why I left it as the main illusion bar.  My only reason for running ineptitude (which I haven't had energy problems with) is that technically there is less down time, and the blinding effect has protection implications, both reasons make it a good/potentially better option when running with an inexperienced tank.  Really, the nuker you choose is dependent on your tanks abilities. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 14:22, April 25 2012 (UTC)

So...
You haven't been perma-banned yet? I'm impressed/surprised/horrified. Congrats. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  09:33, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Smity's a pretty cool guy now. Tbh you'd be better off directing a comment like that at me. -- Jai .  -  16:51, April 26 2012 (UTC)
 * No Jai. I love you. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  19:04, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Big guy on the loose, on the hunt to permaban anyone who catches his eye --  Sh @ dow / /  Haze  19:11, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I have never perma'd someone. :( -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  19:15, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Wut? -- Jai .  -  05:59, April 27 2012 (UTC)
 * Took a long hard look at my life. Lost my way while I was fighting the tide. A big black cloud, stormy sky, followed me, oh I was living a lie. So heartless, so selfish, so in darkness. When all your nights are starless, you're running outta hope. But I found the strength inside to see, found the better part of me, and I'll never let it go. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 22:58, April 26 2012 (UTC)
 * Is that from Batman? ~<font face="Calibri" color=black>Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 22:59, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * this Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 23:13, April 26 2012 (UTC)
 * I lol'd [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 23:53, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't get it... Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 02:52, April 27 2012 (UTC)
 * It was a dumb joke, there's nothing to get. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 03:15, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I will now nominate Smity as my Housecarl. If there's trouble afoot, post it on my wall and I'll ban it without even reviewing. This is generally referred to as abuse of power, but I'll call it discretion-less monitoring. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  05:55, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It was batman or bush-- Relyk 07:04, 27 April 2012 (UTC)