Build talk:Team - HA Lichspike

only thing im not sure about is whether the N/mo sould have resses.Spikeownage 17:30, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * i posted this because i think it's better than the other lichway so it's not going to get WELL'd.Spikeownage 17:38, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * Lichway is genuinely worse than golemspike, people just havent realised it yet. Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:43, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * The differences are: lichway you can get minions without corpses and it boosts your death magic. golemway you have one strong minion that leaves an exploitable corpse. lich is 1 sec cast but has more recharge.Spikeownage 19:01, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * Lich is 2s cast TBH, but it can't be reduced by Bloodstained, while Animate Flesh Golem can. Still, both don't really work with all the RoJ smiters around. Drag  nmn   talk cont  05:59, 22 December 2008 (EST)
 * Also, the caller has energy management problems. should i switch out deadly paradox for rez or profane for rez?Spikeownage 13:06, 22 December 2008 (EST)

PnH
won't do shit on ur N/Mo, its in divine favor, removes 0 hex/conditions and the enchant effect is.. 1 secCloseImpact Pet Whale  12:39, 22 December 2008 (EST)
 * you're right. should i put divert hexes or go back to lich? Spikeownage 12:56, 22 December 2008 (EST)
 * lich. God  box    16:49, 22 December 2008 (EST)

problem with spiking ghostly on king of the hill
I ran this myself and i find it hard to sometimes spike down the ghost because on the caller bar it takes either 4 seconds to cast everything (including aftercast)weaken armor->augury of death->rend or if you shadow shroud to prevent spirit bond (then you can cast whatever you want and spike with deathly swarm too)weaken armor-> rend-> shadow shroud-> augury-> d.swarm it makes it easier to catch for the infuser. any suggestions? Spikeownage 19:52, 22 December 2008 (EST)

weaken armour or augury (not both) and a rend should be more than sufficient to spike ghost work on ur rend timing
 * ^ that or you were just subject to a really good infuse.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 21:17, 24 January 2009 (EST)

dark bond
is it really needed?? it can replace foul feast, rising bile, 2x mend body and soul and 2x resurrection signet on the bars (in order). anyone think that this build really needs it?Spikeownage 20:56, 22 December 2008 (EST)
 * so i hurd 75% less damage on an entirely squishy team wus gud m8--Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]Star 21:04, 22 December 2008 (EST)
 * lol ok ill add it and try running it that way.Spikeownage 08:13, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, dark bond is like stoneflesh except cheap and thus more easily maintainable. - Auron 08:31, 23 December 2008 (EST)

I tried running it with DB on the whole team except for the monk(duh) and I found it worked out much better than the build. I replaced (in order): Deadly Para, Brace Yourselves, Foul Feast, Prot Was Kaolai, Mend Body, Res Sig, and Aura of Stability. This made is so I had no KD prots so I switched SoA on #6 for Aura of Stability. &not;Red Shadow♠  23:13, 31 December 2008 (EST)

N/Mo energy skills
It looks like the first N/mo has a ton of energy and barely any skills to spend it on when the second N/mo is always lacking energy. Which skills can i trade from one to the other? Spikeownage 22:18, 23 December 2008 (EST)

is that not what minions and soul reeping is for?

Glimmer or WoH?
help me! Spikeownage 16:25, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * HB or spell breaker lol. Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:44, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * I mean, glimmer is actually terrible without channeling, its only advantage is 1s recharge which you cant abuse without it =\ Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:45, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * You can spam it if you got minions/people dropping like flies... &not;Red Shadow♠ [[Image:Red_Shadow_Sig.jpg|19px]] 23:13, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * I sorta fail to see how a monk can spam glimmer cuz people are dying. Rawrawr Dinosaur 23:18, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * I'm pretty sure monks don't have Soul Reaping. -- Shazam The  Snake    [[Image:Shazam_The_Snake.png]]  hissssssssssss 23:21, 31 December 2008 (EST)
 * Right, sorry thought it was a necro... then /agree to Glimmer being bad with this.  &not;Red Shadow♠ [[Image:Red_Shadow_Sig.jpg|19px]] 23:34, 31 December 2008 (EST)

N/E is useless
Replace with N/P, N/rt or N/mo?Spikeownage 18:36, 1 January 2009 (EST)
 * N/Mo for a full Aegis chain would be sexy. -- Shazam The  Snake    [[Image:Shazam_The_Snake.png]]  hissssssssssss 03:41, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Uhm...where are your snares?  Ricky vantof  20:31, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * ^ You aren't going far in HA if you don't have a snare.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 21:14, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * I just realized i'm the only one who rated positively on this build :D EDIT: When i ran this without the snare we just spiked out the runner with a rend and it worked every time. The only thing this lost at was cap points. [[Image:19px-Spell_Breaker.jpg‎ ]]Ebolax 09:49, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Because necro spikes ofcourse always run an N/E amirite. ^_^ 217.120.228.192 09:52, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah i don't see a snare in iv spike unless crippling dagger is a snare, but that can be removed with rc. [[Image:19px-Spell_Breaker.jpg‎ ]]Ebolax 09:59, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Theorycrafting owns, ebolax. Rawrawr Dinosaur 11:19, 30 January 2009 (EST)

table of contents
someone fix it plz kthx. Spikeownage 17:42, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * o and rawrawr why did u remove what i posted? i was going to do tactics for every map...Spikeownage 17:49, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * because that's stupid ..LJ..  17:56, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Whatever... but someone still fix table of contents plz i dont know what's wrong.Spikeownage 17:59, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not cuz its stupid, but not all teams even go under the bridge or use waf there and its common sense to use AoE on people who ball. No point in adding pointless info :P Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:01, 30 January 2009 (EST)

one of the votes
Is 0-0-0 and is wrong. Spikeownage 18:10, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Another vote says you cant hold halls I really dont agree because in halls you can get 10 minions on every person by pre-saccing and pacting (without DP) Spikeownage 18:13, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * I removed both before you even said. This page has got my attention atm, anyway. Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:16, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks again.Spikeownage 18:40, 30 January 2009 (EST)

Run 3 n/rts and 2 n/mo, you don't need 3 protbots and the extra spirits/heals help a bit. Rawrawr Dinosaur 08:55, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * will do it later, too lasy. -spikeownage 216.239.77.207 20:08, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * Is it good now? Spikeownage 20:23, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * It shouldnt be a variant, because 3 heal really is better than 3 prot D: Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:35, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * This is a wiki no? Spikeownage 09:49, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * I never normally edit mainspace and the author normally QQs bigtime if you do, which i really cant be bothered with. Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:54, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * I meant that its a wiki so we can have a billion variants merged into 1 build. Spikeownage 16:03, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * But why even show a variant when trip n/rt is like 2-3 times better and is the only thing anyone runs? o_0 Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:04, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * We should make two separate builds and get both of them voted on to see which one is better (2 n/rt 3 n/mo or 3 n/rt 2 n/mo) Spikeownage 16:05, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * Stop being bad and follow the meta. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  03:35, 5 February 2009 (EST)


 * This better? Spikeownage 07:05, 5 February 2009 (EST)

At the beginning bipper has to kill himself and flesh of my flesh rez him right? Deepfox 08:21, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * you bes be trollin nigga - Auron 08:23, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * no. more details comign on build page. Spikeownage 18:32, 5 February 2009 (EST)

Go mes...?
Just a wild thought. I saw loads of healing there, and though I haven't tried the build, I was wondering if there wasn't some room for 1 N/Me echo chaining minions. [build prof=N/Me Death=12+1+1 Soul=12+1 curse=3+1][Arcane mimicry][Arcane echo][Echo][Optional][Optional][Optional][Optional][Optional][/build]


 * Foul Feast and possibly Plague Sending could fit in there, along w/  Inspired Hex, to retain some defensive capability as well as some form of energy management.
 * Deathly Swarm and/or Fetid Ground could go there, but this would probably rely too heavily on the BiP necro; the inspiration line could come as a way to cope w/ energy issues.

Would that be totally overkill, or is it worth mentioning as a variant? --Fen 19:19, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * That would be overkill and not needed. 71.202.111.2 19:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * I can make a Me/A caller if you want a mes. Spikeownage 19:54, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * Then you dont have BiP, leave it as it is. 71.202.111.2 19:57, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * Agree w/ that: the BiP necro definitely has his purpose here. I was rather suggesting to remove 1 N/Rt or 1 N/Mo for this, since the team already has enough healing imho --Fen 20:07, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * The point of a spike is to have incredible amounts of healing and protection so its nearly impossible to kill, but have the ability to unleash a very powerful spike, devoting a build to just making minions just causes the build to lose power. 71.202.111.2 21:50, 10 February 2009 (EST)

this is baed
is this really a great build? the spike is lolslow/easy to prot and cold shields say hi. don't say rend because that's every 3 spikes if you're spiking on recharge and you'll just get d shotted/interrupted. aoe is lol when you see this and spread out. minions=fuel channel tanking due to your lack of ench removal besides rend. minions don't do damage so they just fuel the monks to heal through your spike even if you get a rend off. the minimal pressure added by minions can be fixed through heal party spam. oh and HA position means jack shit unless you're on golden gates so they're frontline will be on your dick through the minions. be less bad pvx

and wtf is dwayna's sorrow 23:50, 12 February 2009 (EST)
 * Dwayna's Sorrow + billions of minions = loads of partry heals [[Image:Frostrage.jpg|19px]]Frosty  po!  02:21, 13 February 2009 (EST)
 * If you see monks are good, spike a target then fetid the infuser. then spike prot + rend = gg. Minions are actually extreme pressure (no kidding) and can sometimes kill stuff on their own. cold shield dont say hi because spike does too much domogos and you have cracked armor anyway (most monks are bad you can put it 10 seconds earlier, or the team is bad and nobody has a cold shield or even knows wtf that is). if you want more ench removal, take gaze of contempt or strip enchantment or take shadow shroud and look at the infuser going "wtfh4xx i cant patient myself, prot u shoulda spirit bonded me!!!!1!shift1!!". Spikeownage 22:18, 13 February 2009 (EST)
 * Meh i played against a few good lichways, I've never ever seen minions doing pressure. The only pressure that happens is from your death swarms hitting different people, or a minion finishing a guy off who is on 1 health from getting hit by swarms. Rawrawr Dinosaur 13:02, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Featuring
Fuck, dont feature it, thats pointless. Sorry for not signing, can't find it on my macbook, this is Didi.
 * then why the hell do we even feature tested builds? Spikeownage 19:04, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Feature some unknown/new concepts, not this "LOOK AT ME IM EVEYWHERE" lame build....

I guess i should explain my vote: My team was able to heal through this by being able to spam infuse (rit was healing the infuse) and the only reason why we were able to do that was by gaining 10+ energy ever time they cast a spell. the RC was able to spam spells left to prot and the infuse was able to spam heal party on recharge.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon 13:00, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * Also was able to win this eeeeeeeeasily with SpartaSpike... >.>-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 13:07, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * You play vs bad lichways, if its clean enough you can't infuse or outspam. Not to mention, how do you spam heal party and infuse if your infuser is dead? :P Rawrawr Dinosaur 13:11, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Thought id add, as it seems to be new, everytime in last few days ive come up against this, the caller has been running Shadow Shroud, seems to be the new meta for this build. Sucks to see spike and not be able to prot it hehe
 * too heavy on energy tbh. you need to drop deadly paradox then but that makes you fail because augury hits after swarms and fetids.

Spikeownage 16:47, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * Meh shadow shroud isn't that good from the times i've played vs it as monk, it makes the target stupidly obvious for the infuse as you have to have it land before any of the black rings appear, so you see hex, watch rings and count down-infuse. Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:49, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * If the spike is perfect no infuser can catch it, you said it yourself. =P .Spikeownage 21:24, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * If ur using 1 person to control everybodies DSwarm and Fetid, you can never have everybody literally on time to the millisecond. [[Image:Frostrage.jpg|19px]]Frosty  po!  21:28, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * ^you will never have a clean spike, but yes every now and then you might get that almost perfect one 21:46, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * as lon as it's a second or just under most infusers won't usually be able to catch it ..LJ..  05:49, 19 February 2009 (EST)
 * "most infusers won't be able to catch it." actually a semi-decent infuser that doesn't red bar can see the animation and if the spike is off it's pretty easy to catch.  a good infuser won't have much of a problem on this except when it's a spike on him where pat spirit and a good prot monk that can time sb/rof wins 00:33, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's also pretty dependant on how much your team balls, if 2 people get hit by it, it can be infused and Spirit Bonded, if it gets hit by 3 people its a much bigger pain in the ass. [[Image:Frostrage.jpg|19px]]Frosty  po!  00:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Variants
Some people run shadow shroud caller and/or contagion + foul feast necro instead of RC. Should I add them to variants? Spikeownage 01:08, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

fix this
this doesnt have the N/E in the build...anywhere.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon 21:18, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Lichspike doesn't run ward/grasping, no necro spikes run it. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 21:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

rc or ls
honestly think it shud be ls with 12 prot, 10+1+1 death, 8+1 sr.....makes for being able to get dw off spikes and pressures faster, with some nice dmg conversion.--<font color="Blue">Da Blue User <font color="Blue">Is  <font color="Blue">Blue <font color="Blue">that's right, I'm blue and your not! 06:25, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats cuz you're terrible Rawrawr Dinosaur 20:01, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Remove Aegis
Remove Aegis its terrible now.
 * aegis nerf hurt this, yeah somebody come up with a good replacement, wam on a snarer? i dunnoFMK- 00:01, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Aegis is strong means your ghostly will cap the altar no matter what. Drahgal Meir 15:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Shroud Caller?
It's worse if you're going for HoH or really anything after the first relic, but it makes farming the first bit a lot faster/easier. Variants?

Can spike from range with Fetid so you're slightly less obvious when every person on your team turns to face one guy. Rend -> Shroud for spikes on the Infuse almost never fails and you have room for crap that makes you not get fucked over by thier hammer on every single spike. Teutonic 14:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Archive?
this isnt ran anymore ^ -- aegis change really hurts the defense of caster spikes. Plus prots learned that all you have to do is spirit bond the massive dark circles on the ground to catch the spike--Goldenstar 12:36, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I support the archive. I have seen death spikes being ran, but that's usually Golemway (Dark Bond) and not this. Drag  nmn   talk cont  11:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

My guild's been running this 2-3 nights a week with our allies (with some adjustments) and it still beats all the other gimmick crap (IWAY, Rtl, Mathway, RSpike). Probably not as good as it was, but it's still an incredibly easy to run fame farmer.

/

Also I think those NRts are much much better than the ones in the build right now. Teutonic 21:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

update
why signet of binding? steal resto from sway? you have life yourself...also the way you win in r/a meta is by snares and weapon of shadow, this has neither. Someone fix this and it's good again imo. Oh and lichspike is cool/abusive because it caused serverside lag which lead to ruberbanding when you're stuck in the minions, not fps lag.FMK- 05:18, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * i think binding was for NR/Tranq, it can be dropped tho. Gringo 05:39, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * computer lag? maybe if you're playing on a Pentium 2 333mHz. Please take that off of the page. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  07:00, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * fixed and why would you steal nr/tranq, makes no sense.FMK- 07:28, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * No because then you can't kill them, and NR is a real pain on this. We once beat a Lichspike running Chop Chop Paraway (a build that got trashed on here) with a paragon backline, purely because they didn't kill NR so all their Auras got DChopped. Ofc they were a pretty bad lichspike but still. Widow maker 13:19, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

update
was DS updated similar to VS? ···  Danny So Cute   02:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No hence why this still works. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 02:53, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * anet sg. ···  Danny So Cute   03:09, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Whysono
Death Nova? Minion  Excluded 19:18, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * And where exactly can you fit that?-- Oskar 19:19, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pick any slot on any of the 5 Necros with 15 Death Magic? I thought that would have been obvious.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 20:49, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dont be dumb, what can they drop?-- Oskar 20:58, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Either Resilent Weapon or Fetid Ground.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 01:00, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dont be dumb, fetid is follow up on spike and if you drop resil what the fuck are you going to put on the ghostly?-- Oskar 01:05, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think losing a bit of cold damage will matter when minion nukes are triggering all over the place. Only need one copy, see? And why do you need Resilent? Excuse my ignorance for all things PvP related.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 08:58, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * To avoid your Ghostly kersploding on altars. --Brandnew 09:23, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Also, if you want to benefit more from your minions instead of a pure bodyblock machine; why aren't you taking barbs/Mark of Pain on the Caller? The 12 in Deadly Arts look pointless to me. 12-13 Curses with runes is all you'll need for Barbs to deal nice damage with all those minions. How many are generally raised in a match anyway? Minion  13:25, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Shadow Shroud Caller attribute distribution
According to the wiki, at 7 Shadow Arts Shadow Shroud has the same duration as at 8. Therefore, wouldn't it be better to change the attribute distribution for Shadow Arts from 8 to 7 and then pump the spare points into Curses? Nothing major but seems to be more efficient. -- Pinkeyflower 12:00, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * In case of weakness? Icendoan 12:10, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Archive
Hasn't been used in ages. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]   22:49, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Why yes Vincent, you are right. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 21:11, 4 July 2012 (UTC)