Archive talk:Team - Burny Heroes

I'm not sure how well heroes use Blazing Finale so I haven't added that yet. Obviously this would be better with real people, but hey, it's designed for heroes. --Mafaraxas 16:04, 2 November 2007 (CET)
 * Not very well from my experience.

Oh, and if anyone wants to give it a better (grammatically correct) name, feel free. --Mafaraxas 16:05, 2 November 2007 (CET)

Noone say anything. --Mafaraxas 06:48, 7 November 2007 (CET)

On my nuker I use Livia, 2 monk heroes, 1 monk hench, 1 ranger interrupter hench and another ele hench. is livia and variants of this are my monk heroes. We just about never die and kill fast. Oh yeah, I run promise nuker. &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer  07:10, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * Should work. I would've submitted Sab's triple necro heroes from the GW Guru forums awhile ago (wins PvE when there's exploitable corpses), but she said "I'd rather not have it become a "Wiki build" if you know what I mean" when I asked her about it... so here we are. --Mafaraxas 07:54, 7 November 2007 (CET)

I don't really see whats new to this, everyone probably knows about RI nukers yet. "They're on Fire!" is really the only thing.Sma 18:11, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * Lol, I saw many a They're on Fire! +  2-3  Searing Flames or Mark of Rodgort or Dual Attunement RI or... after Nightfall release. It is quite a good team if you ensure the foes are burning all the time and always target into the center of the mob. Since I used it to I can say there is a great difference with and without They're on Fire!. Yet I speak about the general concept. This build may be ameliorated. --[[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|20px]]Ttibot  (Talk) 19:45, 7 November 2007 (CET)


 * I played this build for PvE for a bit. To really get some good burning going on add a Smiting Monk with Zealot's Fire.With Mark of Rodgort and Zealots fire up, everytime the smiting Monk casts a spell on an ally all adj foes take Zealot's fire damage and are then set on fire. Throw in Smite Hex and Smite Condition! 24.67.132.80 21:11, 7 November 2007 (CET)Wynne
 * Lol, I never tought about this. --[[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|20px]]Ttibot (Talk) 21:38, 7 November 2007 (CET)

Yeh, I know this build isn't original at all, but it's not on PvX yet, so there you go. That Zealot's Fire idea is pretty cool, I'll have to try it later. Question again: anyone know if heroes use Blazing Finale well? (i.e. if they use it on melee characters, or just spam it on anyone in range of an enemy) And to Wayne about his rating: so what? The only way relying too heavily on RI would be bad is if it got disabled or you're in areas with mass enchantment removal, in which case you shouldn't be taking fire nukers anyway. --Mafaraxas 22:07, 7 November 2007 (CET)

zealot's fire doesn't cause burning. how does that relate to this build? 69.138.182.0 22:38, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * Zealot's fire + Mark of Rodgort causes burning. I could just as easily replace Incendiary Bonds for Mark of Rodgort if the other bars justified it. A prot/smiting hybrid monk would probably be best to go along; the question is how well they'd manage their energy. --Mafaraxas 23:38, 7 November 2007 (CET)

Why not just use an sf ele? 76.102.172.202 09:25, 8 November 2007 (CET)

Yeah, SF would just be better. Rodgort's 3 sec burning < SF 6-7 second Burning? Anyway, here's my paragon skill layout:

Use SF, ^For above, you have no elite O.o.--Relyk 17:28, 8 November 2007 (CET)


 * Heroes spam SF as far as i know (been awhile since i used it); they'll kill their energy and the damage/cost is worse, i believe. Dual attunements is just better for e-management.  Most hero builds fail because of the lack of strict e-management. Also, that paragon bar is crap, tbh. You're spreading your attributes too thin.  It's a waste to put 9 points into spear mastery to get a few extra points of DPS.  Anthem of Envy is meh unless you have 3+ attackers in your party, which isn't so great for most of PvE. --Mafaraxas 21:11, 8 November 2007 (CET)
 * That updated bar isn't as bad, but putting points into spear mastery for two attacks is still a big waste imo. --Mafaraxas 14:30, 9 November 2007 (CET)

SF and mark would be much better if you want to keep foes on fire.--Coloneh 00:05, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * How do you propose the heroes manage energy? --Mafaraxas 00:36, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * fire attunement, glowing gaze, and GoLE like every other SF build.--Coloneh 01:08, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Indeed; I was just a little skeptical how well heroes manage it. I tested it just now, but I still prefer dual attunes + RI, just because you have room for more skills; with SF you're using half your bar to keep one skill up, whereas here there's a bit more flexibility in skill choice.  They're still about the same damage-wise, but if everyone keeps giving this low ratings just because it isn't SF + MoR I'll change it. --Mafaraxas 01:48, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * well your damage reduction relies on burning foes, and SF keeps foes burning. RI does not. also with a few eles the damage of SF is quite a bit more than RI spammers.--Coloneh 06:10, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Er, as far as damage, compare the skills please. RI deals 15...99...120 fire damage and 3 sec of burning every time.  Searing Flames deals 1...6...7 sec of burning and 10...82...100 fire damage.  Two SF eles only have the advantage of continuous burning vs. two dual attunes + RI.  In any case, I changed them to SF anyway (-.-) - could an admin and/or the voters remove/change their votes accordingly? Thanks. --Mafaraxas 06:24, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * you can cast SF more than twice as often as RI.--Coloneh 22:50, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Doesn't mean you can or you're going to; your energy would die if you did that, after all. But whatever.  Just rate the build. --Mafaraxas 01:03, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * You can with this bar :, , , . It is the classical energy management for SF. I don't say it is perfect but used correctly you can cast many SF.--[[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|20px]]Ttibot (Talk) 02:20, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * You're not continually casting SF with that, though. You're casting SF -> Glowing Gaze -> w/e with GoLE thrown in, which lowers your DPS. --Mafaraxas 02:36, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * You have to cast it during SF recharge. Some people take others 1s recharge spells (like Liquid Flame or Immolate<-pvp) to cast during other intervals. --[[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|20px]]Ttibot (Talk) 03:08, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * I'm tired of arguing. You all win, I lose.  Happy? Now go rate the actual build or something, please. Or just do whatever you please. --Mafaraxas 03:20, 10 November 2007 (CET)

Looks pretty standard as far as eles go the para is ok some kind of tntf build looks like it would provide more though
 * Heroes can't use There is nothing to fear ;) Grobie 12:00, 10 November 2007 (CET)

I have been using a similar build for all campaigns, and playing a variant (with there is nothing to fear) of the Para or Ele myself. It works great, exept for the mentioned weaknesses. I actualy prefare dual attunement RI variants over SF, as Heros can't realy use Glowing Gaze. Grobie 12:00, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * Heh, Dual attune RI is what I had originally, but everyone was giving it bad ratings because it wasn't SF. --Mafaraxas 20:30, 10 November 2007 (CET)
 * If I compare the damage-output of dual attune and searing flames, searing flames wins. If I compare how much frustration I had with searing flames heros to how careless dual attunement or even Mind Blast is, I never want to switch again. Grobie 23:35, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * no, no, no. RI wins for damage, but if you want to spread burning all over to use ToF then SF is your only choice. also heroes use SF quite well, just give them a decent skillbar.--Coloneh 00:18, 14 November 2007 (CET)

We need more builds like this, cause I am always solo and I don't know which combination of heroes would be good. How does this fair with vanquishing in Hard Mode? Huynh 01:55, 21 January 2008 (EST)
 * It's a bit mediocre, tbh. If you want a dependable hero set for HM, see Archive:Team - Sabway. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  03:05, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Total Rework
The first edition of this team build was vetted only as "good", and I blame it on the fact that, at the time it was created, no great Para build existed. Now, times have changed: There exist both a great SF Ele build and a great Paragon build (which can easily make use of "They're on Fire"). Please re-test and re-vote, all; otherwise a complete vote-reset & re-vetting will be needed. As mentioned above: can anyone think of a better name? "Burny" is the best name ever, but since this works for players, too, "Heroes" is no longer needed imho. I added a farming tag because fire is highly effective against plants, which make up some great farming runs including those for Sunspear points. --War Pig5 12:11, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Farming involves 1-2 people, not a whole party. Also, superior runes on heroes is a big no-no.  Oh, and this -was- specifically designed for heroes; there's better things to run for players (Savannah Heat, imbagon).  Heroes don't use dual glyphs or meteor shower well at all. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  12:30, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Item farming requires the smallest practical party size (the "1-2" figure is being hotly debated after the great-vetting of the first 3-man farming build I know of: Archive:Team - 600/Smite SoO - but you know that - you're on that build's talk page - so the link is for the benefit of others). Points farming requires the largest possible party. To any who are unfamiliar with points farming, I recommend checking out the links in the article. I suppose the farming tag should be removed if it is reserved strictly for item farming builds. As for the superior runes, I agree with you, in general, but I based these builds on vetted great builds, and if those build can benefit from minor runes instead of superior, then that opinion should be expressed there as well. My hope is that others will use this article to further the development of those builds (as well as this team build) to the point of evolution that Triple Necro Vanquish is at... Minor runes and working as close to perfection as any PvE build is. I edited the build to focus it on heroes, and moved the info on player substitutions to a Notes section. Your suggestion that players play Imba builds has also been integrated into the article. --War Pig5 13:09, 6 April 2008 (EDT)


 * Dual glyphs and meteor shower are godly on heroes, good anyway. :P --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  12:37, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
 * No, they're actually not, unless you disable all of them and micro it. Try looking at your heroes' skill usage during battle and you'll see what I mean. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  12:42, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
 * The dual glyphs and meteor shower were an attempt to make this build more player-friendly, but as that's not consistent with the article's title nor your original intent, I fixed it and added notes that there are better builds for humans to use. --War Pig5 13:28, 6 April 2008 (EDT)