Archive talk:Team - Expert's Dexterity Ranger Spike

Equipment Templates: [1;Pkpxb2yzjkqgnjIPyknjIBLvizIfRfnzI9kjnzIBLA] [2;PkpxbGzzjkqonlIPysnlIBLvi1IfRnn1I9krn1IDLA] [3;PkpxbGzzjkqQhoIPyYjoIBLvi4IfRpg4I9k7h4IDLA] [4;PkpxbWyzjkqwniIPy0niIBLviyIfRvnyI9kznyIDLA] [5;Pk5RR3CYCTawjJVtrQmzL7wUmzLDLHijIdSPmjI9kTmjIDL] [6;Pk5RRH7XCTaCkFVLqAhoJNxIjoJDLdioJLRZgoJ9kphoJFL] [7;Pk5RRX6XCTaCkFVLqwmiJNx0miJDLbiiJHRvmiJ9kzmiJLB] [8;Pk5RRX6nCTaCkFVLqAniJNxEniJDLbiiJHR/miJ9kDniJFL] Weapon Sets: Vampiric Flatbow of Fortitude 15^50 Vampiric Flatbow of Fortitude 15% while enchanted Vampiric Hornbow of Fortitude Sundering Hornbow of Fortitude Cyber Smoke 14:22, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

dave
i run 2 monks an n/rt with more healing and a para Omg its dave 16:41, 13 August 2008 (EDT) i also take 1 r/n 1 r/e 2 r/me with hex breaker for better running Omg its dave 16:43, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
 * yeah no hexbraker get's you owned ar relics(unless your team is so leet and d-shots every spell)
 * Spotless Mind?! 2 Monks is an epic failure in 95% of r-spikes, until they're running a huge "tank"-like defense in their build as we do in SoT's Turret Ranger spike. But, and this is a big "but",- in your build there's probably no Defensive Anthem, no "Stand Your Ground!", no WoH on Orders Necro or other supplementary covers like Aegis. It doesn't make it reliable to play with 2 monks backline. In other words, if it meets TV's build, the whole thing gonna get hawk-smashed. Cyber Smoke 10:53, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Tab Smash tbh. God  box    11:27, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
 * This build reminded me to make-- R  e l y k 23:15, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Don't use flatbows. Edwards 01:53, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Okay, for those who sit in one big tank and don't care to know what's going around: Flatbows have 1.5x range of a Hornbow and the bow attack skills with equipped Flatbow activate 2 times faster. Experienced teams are supposed to switch bows depending on targets, like if they're high-armored, then the spikes are done using "Go for the Eyes!", "Find Their Weakness!" and Hornbows, and if they aren't, the spikes are done using Flatbow to decrease the possibility of enemy infuse. Aight, now you know that... if you want to compare the speed of these 2 bows under RtW, go make 2 Ranger Heroes with Dual Shot, Savage Shot, Read the Wind and two different bows. Give one of them a Flatbow and another one a Hornbow, then make them spike the same target at the same time. You'll see that by the time the Flatbow hero will finish the spike, the Hornbow hero will still be busy shooting. Cyber Smoke 05:45, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

Because your follow up is already a 1/2 second cast skill, under RtW, Favourable, and a 33% IAS, the refire rate difference of the bows is negligible, so you should go with the hornbow for armour penetration and a better flight arc. The differences in range are also a moot point because if you're firing from far enough away that it matters, your arrows are going to be dodged because of the crappy accuracy inherent to flatbows. Edwards 18:39, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * A better flight arc, under RtW? Lol, it makes all bow arcs the same, except the fact that Flatbow is better under RtW than a Hornbow, I'll note once again: the two bows have a different attacks activation time (not the refire rate). Cyber Smoke 22:28, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

i like the bar compression,but hex removal lack does kill it :(, also no brutal/vital weapon makes me sad.Snipey lizard 18:44, 15 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Excuse me for thinking a skill did what it says it does x.x. However, I still am not sure about the refire rate issue.  I *believe* that regardedless of the refire rate/attack speed on the bow, with a 1/2 second activation time on the skill, they fire at the same rate.  If you were following up with an auto-attack, the flatbow would certainly be faster, but the way I interpret the mechanic is that on a skill with a set activation time, that activation time is not changed by the base attack speed of the weapon that you're using.  For example, Distracting Blow has a 1/2 second activation time regardless of whether you're using a hammer, axe, or sword.  In another example, Recurve Bows are used for interrupting on a template like a Burning Arrow Ranger or a Cripshot because they have the lowest, hardest do dodge arc, and the slow refire rate/attack speed of the bow is not a hinderance to interrupting, because the 1/2 activation time on Dshot and Savage cancel out the natural refire rate of the bow, making a Hornbow a better choice for the spike because of the added armour penetration.  That's how I understand it, though I could be wrong. Edwards 18:14, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Just try it with two heroes. Make one of them spike with Dual Shot - Savage Shot using a Hornbow and another one the same skills with Flatbow, both using RtW as preparation. You'll see that Flatbow activates attacks faster, I don't think it's a comprehensively-documented Wiki feature on the difference of bows, yet they're different in terms of attacks activation time, as all bows are with "no activation time" attack skills. Cyber Smoke 09:31, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Flatbow activates faster on the attack skill which doesnt have an activation time - but if all rangers used hornbows that wouldnt matter whatsoever. The 1/2 second followup is still the same speed. Hornbows do more domages and the activation speed of the first attack doesnt matter cuz they all still hit same time =\ -- The proceeding Cute McPiplup was added by Rawr. 10:07, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, that's why experienced teams should switch bows, back and forth. When my guild, SoT, played as top 10 Ranger spike, we've never held Hornbows as primary weapon and rarely switched to them at all, because of both range & activation time Flatbows provide. As one of my guildies said: "Yeah, go try and gank protected Guild Lord using a Hornbow, it's a failure". And in the end, any "leet R-spike team" will end up with, to amaze people and stuff ;-) Cyber Smoke 18:51, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Plz never use rspike to boast lol -- The proceeding Cute McPiplup was added by Rawr. 18:54, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Okay! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MG632LlskI ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx0ufWoya5E Hehe! :-) Cyber Smoke 18:58, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Glimmer Spammer
That build is pure shit. You're using Orison with Glimmer (lol), you're using glimmer, ect.  —Ska Kid  16:09, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hey. Fixed it :-) Cyber Smoke 16:16, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * =)  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 16:23, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Why, imo, Forked Arrow Spike > This
Personally, I see no reason why this build has any advantages to forked arrow spike. My arguments are as follows: So, how is this better? And tbh, just because you saw some guild using it in HA doesnt mean its good. I saw a top guild run Vampiric Swarm spike, but that doesnt mean its good. ---  Ressmonkey (talk)  22:03, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * 1) No snares. Pin down hardly counts as a snare considering its the only condition in the build aside from DW and cracked armor, so it will quickly be RC'ed/FFed.  Forked arrow spike has Shackles, Ward, and pin down.
 * 2) Bad Deep Wound. First of all, the DW only triggers 86% of the time on the spike.  Secondly, its got a 15 second recharge.  Your spike recharge is either 10 seconds if you use Sloth Hunters as a follow-up or its 5.5 if you use sloth hunters as a spike.  If its 10, then ur only going to have DW every other spike.  If its 5.5, then ur only going to have it every 3rd spike.  The Forked arrow version has it every spike, and its 100% guaranteed.
 * 3) No D-Shot. D-shot is one of the best interrupts in the game, if not the best.  Not having it means basically that you dont have any interrupts.  If thats the case, all the enemy team has to do it keep hard ressing after each spike and the game never ends.  If you are using Savage as an interrupt, then you cant use it for spiking.  Interrupts are essential to HA for KotH or any essential skill.
 * 4) Orders. Orders is just bad compared to Brutal Weapon.  First of all, it requires you to use Dual Shot which gimps damage and has a longer recharge.  Also, the short duration (causes need to spam) and long cast makes it a priority for interrupts since it pretty essential to the spike.  Also, with orders you lose vital weapon which is much mroe beneficial then a N/Rt with some support healing because a 3 monk backline can easily outdo pressure, so vital for spike prevention help is very useful.
 * 5) Not really much more damage. While this does have 4 rangers, it loses all previously stated things.  And for what?  4 spikers, an IAS, and 2 marksmanship?  Well, that really is little advantage.  First of all, the forked arrow spike has the same average marksmanship as this build.  4 spikers is little advantage if you dont gain anything from it.  The bonus damage is nice, but the other build has 8 more bonus damage from prep/brutal, has access to anthem of envy, and has the paragon using 1 attack.  That almost makes up for the damage difference, but this still comes out on top.  Although thats not needed.  A good r-spike should either be successful on a spike or fail anyways for reasons that a 4 man spike cant change (SB, Infuse).  An IAS isnt very useful on a r-spike.  The only advantage it gives is the reduction of savage shot's cast, which is so short anyways.
 * It's very simple: 1.5 times larger spike range, quicker skills activation time (much harder to interrupt), no dependence on FW in case it gets killed (Forked Arrow spike can be dodged if the spirit is dead), the ability to split without the necessity to have Orders Necro in small radar range, the absence of need to stay in range of the spikers to damage-boost them. I'm not saying Forked Arrow spike isn't good, I'm simply stating that this is another working Ranger spike which has its own advantages, that's it. Cyber Smoke 14:59, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

No D-shot?
I realize that every spiker is carrying Savage, but why would you leave no bar to carry d-shot? The only reason I can think of Savage>D-shot is for the spiking power, but I don't feel it serves to be as great of a shutdown as d-shot is. 130.101.94.10 23:32, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The only way to add it into this build is to remove Pin Down, which is a very silly idea (no snare on relic runs, eh?). On the maps like Courtyard, the Rangers use Savage Shots to interrupt the enemy Ghostly Heroes before starting the actual spikes anyway, so I don't really see of why it couldn't be done with Savage Shots. The purpose of a spike is to kill, not to shutdown Aegis, Channeling or some other easy-to-strip enchants. Cyber Smoke 18:06, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Lol. Single Pin Down isn't a relic snare. RC says hi. --Tab  Moo  18:07, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * When it's like 0:30 on your timer until the end of the match, it is. Plus, the smart teams never outrun the enemy relic bearers in HoH anyway, as it would be a clear request for double base gank. Nothing is a perfect Halls snare, until it's called Ward Against Foes. Cyber Smoke 18:12, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I've updated the build a bit to solve the "no snare" problem. Cyber Smoke 20:16, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * And, one more problem! Hehe. Cyber Smoke 00:51, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Snare in ha(mainly ward against foes) are easy to interupt. Just look; and you see they always immediatly cast foes when they have gud position for it. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  10:15, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Keen Arrow
What do you guys think about the use of Keen Arrow over Dual Shot or Sloth Hunter's Shot? Tumri 02:03, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Might work due GftE! Zyke 02:07, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Tried it for a few PuG runs and it works marvelously as a primary and secondary spike skill, its like a pre-nerf sloth but better due to its 5e cost and 6s recharge allowing it to be used for every single spike and also gives the rangers ample energy. Tumri 03:17, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

nerf
to elite P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  21:59, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah its already been noted on the actually build page-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 22:12, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * *sigh* All right, we're going this: ;-) Cyber Smoke 12:01, 13 November 2008 (EST)