User talk:Innoruuk/Build: DoA Mesway

I need ideas for tanks for doa. Also, can someone show me how to put up a "requires consumables" tag? I can't figure that one out. Innoruuk 19:44, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * The tag for the cons is "Requires-Cons". See DoA Fragway or  DoA Caster Spike for tanks examples.--Aria Frost  [[Image:Panic.jpg|19px]] talk  10:05, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you get the name Aria Frost off of Spellforce perchance? Innoruuk 14:31, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I've just invented it. I didn't even know it before.--Aria Frost [[Image:Panic.jpg|19px]] talk  20:30, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does my build look trial-ready? Innoruuk 21:04, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It needs better formatting, but yep, I think it could be published at least as a build-stub. Have you already tried it?--Aria Frost [[Image:Panic.jpg|19px]] talk  13:42, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * What more formatting is needed (other than putting in monks cause I was lazy)? The basic combo of shared burden and panic has been tried and tested, and it works fenominally. With Earthbind, anything that couldn't be knocked down is now vulnerable, and the kd is 4 seconds because of how psych instability works. I think it's good to go. Innoruuk 14:58, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks interesting, I'd like to try it soon. About formatting, there is a standard layout adopted for the build articles. See Style and formatting for reference (eg. equipment sections are missing). Do you have considered Wastrel's Demise too? Has been recently buffed and now it's very good. Also, take a look at this Panic Nuker build, it does a lot of spammable damage.--Aria Frost [[Image:Panic.jpg|19px]] talk  21:52, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I'll never understand why you run such shitty ass builds.--TahiriVeila 15:00, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ouch, Tahiri, now, explain why it's so bad. Take into account mistrust is 146 dmg not 79, panic is in the area mass interrupt, and psychic instability is an in the area kd. Complicate also disables any skill on all nearby foes. The damage is obnoxiously high and is much easier to manage than frostway or glaiveway. Innoruuk 15:44, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The A/Mo tank is absolute shit, there's no bonder which means it's only good for normal mode (so it's even more shit). The "spike" is slow as fuck and uneven so you're not going to kill all in one wave and you don't have eoe to mop up stragglers. You don't make use of damage buffs (honor, buh!, intensity, etc). It's shit, glaiveway is better for nm, shitterflames is better for hm.--TahiriVeila 16:39, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The A/Mo requires no bonder. Second, everything is aoe. I'd invite you along on a run with heroes to watch, but you're being a major jerk. I also left the choice of which tank to use open. I favor the 600 I have never died in doa while running it. And EoE would be overkill. Also, you need no damage buffs because everything is armor ignoring anyway. Continue bashing though, I'm sure the community loves you for it. Athrun was satisfied with it. Innoruuk 16:54, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL! Shitterflames! I used to run that with the original DOA guild. Searing flames, no matter how you attempt to spruce it up, is agonizingly slow. BTW, that photo of 28 min doa sc was photoshopped. Anyone worth his salt knows casterspike is a good standard, but it is no speed demon. Innoruuk 17:00, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're really dumb aren't you? I've been on 35 minute DoA HM run rofl. And shitterflames and keystone are the fastest ways to do it. You're really awful if you think casterspike isn't the fastest way to do DoA. This? this is shit.--TahiriVeila 19:50, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, then that means glaiveway is shitty as well. As per speed, 52 mins on the first trial run is much better than 3-4 consets per run for glaive or frostway. Also, I believe there is stuff in doa which doesn't burn. Also, high armor much? Savannah heat is cut nearly in half down there regardless of lb rank. This damage is armor ignoring and is nearly indomitable. The only decent member of the casterspike team is the vor mesmer. And if you wanna bring up hm aggro behavior again, I believe 4 second kd which can be infinitely spammed, exceeds the abilities of a snare like deepfreeze. Damage from wastrel's worry is above vor and can be placed on 6 enemies in 2 seconds. 5 seconds later, the enemy team wipes. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Innoruuk 21:33, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * glaiveway is shit as well. IT's just incredibly easy to pug. You're wrong that shit doesn't burn. Shitterflames has a VoR and either 3 SF or 2 SF and an SH. With VoR call + BUH!->Rodgort's Invocation->SF you kill just about everything in one chain. Mop up and stargglers (usually a ranger or two get out ) with necrosis. The 4s KD is dependent on an interrupt, you can't perma-knock with it. yoiu'll get one KD, everything will stand up and scatter before they cast again. Plus your build is all about trigger mistrust, clumsiness, and wandering eye for damage. Which makes panic + knockdown (stuff that keeps you from casting + attack) really AWFUL choices here. I guarantee you that keystone spike and shitterflames are faster, easier, and more effective. Have fun doing hour runs in nm, i'll stick to 45 minute HM clears. I'm 100% certain that you've never played with a good DoA guild (let alone an elite one) or you'd realize how awful your builds are.--TahiriVeila 21:58, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here are the official record tiems for DoA. Keystone spike has record times (if you really believe that 5 diff screens are shopped you can fuck off). But even relatively new players running keystone or shitterflames will get ~50 minute times in HM, experienced players can do 35 or less easily--TahiriVeila 22:05, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, that 4 second kd is recharged the second they get up. Second, since there is no dotaoe, there is no scatter. third, the build is focused on shutdown, not just trigger clumsiness or this or that. Fourth, WHEN, not IF, mistrust triggers, it's 146(150 with grail) + 40%. It still beats vor even without buh. Fifth: with Shared Burden, interrupting is a walk in the park. As per what doesn't burn. The Anguish and misery titans of foundry do not. If you hate the monk tank, the other one is there. In any case, if you want to delete my build, then get rid of glaive, because it's pathetic as well. I think you just love trolling me though. Now, either give a couple of suggestions without the absolutely kick-in-the face attitude, or leave the deciding to the general public. I am done arguing with you. Innoruuk 22:46, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * esurge-- Relyk  talk  23:03, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * What the fuck makes you think these don't burn?. Your knowledge of DoA is weak, and your build is weak as well. It's just that ANYTHING works when you take cons in normal mode. Your builds don't synergize, all the damage comes from on-cast effects, yet you're built around shutting down casting (shared burden, panic, and PI). You don't take advantage of broken pve skills like BUH!, you use suboptimal tanks (and only one of them) while using three characters to heal for NORMAL MODE. Proper builds are able to operate with a bonder and a single healer in HARD MODE. They use two tanks to speed up runs (so that they next group is balled and ready to go before you've even finished spiking this first group). The concept of using broken mesmer skills to nuke things isn't bad. In fact it's the best strategy in PvE now. You just don't do it properly, your team setup is inefficient, and your choice of skills are not synergetic. You get that knock downs and on-cast damage skills don't mix well right? I'm not trying to be mean to you, I'm trying to point out what's wrong with this build and why other builds are better options. You seem unwilling to accept that your build isn't efficient. And I told you before, Glaiveway is a shitty, slow way to do DoA. But it's incredibly easy to pug (unlike this build) and is part of the meta, so we store the builds here.--TahiriVeila 23:04, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * but shutdown wins pve-- Relyk  talk  23:13, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * It does when your damage isn't based on the enemies actually casting + attacking.--TahiriVeila 23:15, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

The bulk of damage comes from Wastrel's Worry being on nearly every foe (quite easily). The two tank and no st rit is probably a good idea. If the A/E tank isn't the top of the line, I'll replace it shortly. The way panic works, is that all nearby foes are interrupted whenever a hexed foe uses an action. Clumsiness is a cover for random attacks that just happen. Sig of clumsiness and wandering eye are for leftovers. You also have overload and COP which synergize well with hexed foes. shared burden allows easy capture of skills being cast for the kd. Wastrel's worry goes off very easily during a four second kd, and usually, more than 3 enemies are hexed, meaning 150 ish damage splashes around in the blink of an eye in addition to cry of pain and other stuff. I can probably dump the st, but this is the noob-proof version. It actually isn't hard to run unless ur doing the pulls(which isn't hard). An easy rule to follow is keep an eye on the monks. You can kd them first chance, COP them if for some reason they are still casting, which interrupts in turn anyway. Look, I hate explaining obvious concepts. Mistrust is given out because AN action has to trigger panic. Why not have it out there on the chance you could get a 200 dmg explosion? Also, the trial run was 52 mins HM just to clarify. Our ST left in foundry so we weren't kding titans very often. Innoruuk 23:26, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope you realize that single tank teams can get in the mid 30s. I also hope you realize how obvious your lack of doa knowledge is. Oh, and dead foes dont need to be shut down. Life   Guardian  23:31, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why are you running earthbind when PI already KDs for 4s? Why aren't you running a bonder? It just doesn't make sense =\--TahiriVeila 23:38, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't tell you where I read it, but some short time ago I was told anguish titans and misery titans don't burn. Whether or not that holds true anymore is beyond my attention. It was the very first run we did with builds that no one had used, so I'd consider 52 minutes down a member to be pretty decent. the shutdown causes death, so that last remark was pointless. Can we just not get into a trolling war? Whatever glee you get from this is empty and pathetic. Earthbind is for large titans only. Displacement dies so quickly that it's irrelevant. Innoruuk 23:41, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I left the monk slots open. The A/Mo, which I favor and have had much luck running, requires no bonder. It is self sustaining. Innoruuk 23:42, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * W/e. It's shit so don't expect it to get vetted--TahiriVeila 00:06, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * would you rather I get rid of panic in favor of more damage? Mistrust, while powerful does have a somewhat substantial recharge. you want Shared burden at least in order to make stygian veil easier between cry of pain and overload. Innoruuk 00:44, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * All the elites are bad tbh. Life   Guardian  00:46, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You would run?... Innoruuk 01:01, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're single tanking, would probably be a a/me tank with VoR, Esurge, 2xKeystone, UA mes, perma seed, and ER Life   Guardian  01:09, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

ER as in ether renewal bonder? As late as it's getting skill recall is failing me. Keystone signet spammers, while strong and easily spamming, have much lower damage. You can probably replace any of these mesmer builds with a keystone, but the mistrust, shutdown, and wastrel combo seems like a much higher dmg output if you run the numbers. As much of an annoyance as keystone peacekeepers were, they never seemed like they were all that powerful... Innoruuk 01:19, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there a separate build for keystone spike? Innoruuk 01:23, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The difference is that the builds i listed are actually a spike, rather than a gradual lowering of hp. And yes, ER bonder. Oh, and inept works well too. Full keystone is generally a bad idea. Pretty sure we have some kind of variant on the casterspike page though. dunno how updated it is. Life   Guardian  01:25, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can wait 5 seconds, wastrel's worry ends up being a spike. Since it's nearby, the balls don't have to be perfect either. My final notes on this argument are that it has been successful (only tried once in HM may get back to you on that) and I will see about making it a two-tank event. Instead of vor caller maybe have the PI call, causing kd to then use Deep Freeze and throw chaos storm on the domination builds? Innoruuk 01:36, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Revision
I tweaked the builds a bit to more easily accomodate your idea of a spike. The damage output is way less, but it takes advantage of some pve only skills. I dropped panic for Esurge. Innoruuk 16:17, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks MUCH better--TahiriVeila 16:28, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, other possible modifications I could try out? Innoruuk 01:14, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

=Mesmer damages= mesmer damages are armor igoring so ebon standard of honnor is useless.If ypu take shared burden, you dont need deep freeze. imo, you should try 1 VoR, 2 keystone, 1 esurge--ComeOnItsMe 16:22, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The damage is still raised, I tested that a while back. Shared Burden lets overload be more easily spammed, so I want to try to keep it. Keystone spams are not all that powerful I've gotta say. It's 60 dmg 3x times 2 users. Even if the spam is rapid, the damage isn't always enough and you get a massive scatter. Innoruuk 16:30, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm probably going to need to do some fixing on that keystone build as I haven't been able to find a keystone spammer build on here. Innoruuk 16:36, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * keystone mesmers deal a lot more damages. for exemple, unatural signet and signet of clumsiness have their own damages that add to keystone damages, then put ural and a decent LB rank and u got pretty nice spike. in DOA you dont need to deal more than 1000 damages on a spike so its fine.The spikes i did with 1 VoR, 2 keystone and 1 e surge lasted maximum 4s
 * For the keystones themselves, EBSOH adds more dmg than 25%. in the case of the vor and Esurge, BUH is the better option. Innoruuk 16:48, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Keystones are a tone of damage, 3 keystoners using 2 signets each will clear a ball in DoA--TahiriVeila 17:05, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * All I'm saying is that I ran the numbers. Unnatural sig will cause close to 170 dmg x 2 ppl is 340, then addtwo more sigs 120x 2 ppl is 240. Esurge is another 180 dmg, but vor shouldn't even be going off with this many interrupts. It doesn't make sense even though it works, kinda like my original setup... Innoruuk 17:39, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I solved why mistrust works even through interrupts. The second you try and take an action (spell cast) while thexed, it fails. It doesn't wait for the cast to finish unless mistrust is put on during the cast. and 200 dmg is a lot. Innoruuk 18:21, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * What's the thing with Signet of Sorrow on the Keystone mesmer? Angueo 04:30, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's very high damage because of Symbolic Celerity. Innoruuk 04:42, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * My bad. Didn't see the extra part to Symbolic Celerity using Fast Casting attribute until I clicked it. ^^ Angueo 04:46, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

about the caller
The caller should be the shared burden mesmer because this elite skill also affects the speed movement of the foes(-50%). For fragway, we use fevered dreams+"you move like a dwarf!"= cripple to all(-50% aswell) and it works just fine. So imo you dont need deep freeze.--ComeOnItsMe 12:02, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel defeated... The VoR caller wins out, but solely because I found that Enrage triggers it twice in a spike. Bah, 350 damage alone comes from the VoR, so I can't ignore it. It also just makes Veil that much easier. While that's a loss for me, I compliment whoever came up with Casterspike. It's theory work on par with my own. I try to find an innovative and less restricted method, but oh well. Uw ritway, Uw Mixed-way (still in the theory process) Sigh... Innoruuk 21:36, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

about the sliver tank
problem with shadow form is it limitates the amount of damages you can do in one attack. Obsi flesh doesnt, thats why i would say to use an ele. + with Quick Zephyr in range, you can perma cast sliver armor (you cant with a sin except if you put AoS in the build and if you are lucky.)--ComeOnItsMe 12:09, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see sliver armor being that integral a part in the tank's function. can you explain that, and I've been running it doing 4-6 groups per spike. BTW entering final cleanup before posting to the public. Please voice concerns NOW! Innoruuk 03:59, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Running an E/A means you can shave off several minutes of time in foundry. An ele can permanently maintain sliver armor (with the proper pcons) and produce a MUCH higher level of damage because no damage cap exists on OF.--TahiriVeila 04:17, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does the sliver basically take down it's ball while the team is spiking the recall tank's? Innoruuk 04:48, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, reread the casterspike portion of foundry, ignore that. It looks difficult to maintain Obi flesh even at 17 earth Magic. are pcons completely necessary to this build? (I don't run this, I prefer the role of the recall tank). Innoruuk 04:59, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its easy to maintain obsiflesh with 17 earth and a +20% enchants weap. Anyway if you are going for speed, the fastest way is just not to sliver anything in foundry or use a R/A tank(kills everything in 20s in foundry room5).--ComeOnItsMe 10:48, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Time
Newest record for this build is set at 38 minutes. After applying the Obi flesh and really getting down the tactics, may be able to shave it under 30 minutes, we'll see. We have not employed the keystone as of yet, that may also change results. we're running with a non-mesmer shared burden as well. Innoruuk 05:17, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * the record is 26 min atm. owned by zraw (differents builds tho but mesway).But imo if u can spike down a group in 2-3s, it meens the caster team is good, you also have to check how much time you need to kill single targets. problem with wastrel's worry is even if you interrupt or KD they can still use the monster skill(enraged)--ComeOnItsMe 10:55, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Complicate, EBSoH, PI, and arcane minicry are really pointless. Also kinda confused why you're calling with shared instead of using VoR. 166.205.137.181 11:14, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * i agree--ComeOnItsMe 11:15, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fragway uses crippled spread out as their snare. Shared Burden causes 50% slower movement, so it works just as well. I was told 1000 damage was a good threshhold of damage for a spike. Mistrust can cause a whopping 200 damage in the area, but the spikers actually need the attention of enemies to make it go off. Mimicry is almost solely for dealing with stragglers and making the Hungers in veil resort to using grenth's balance (about 20% health left). Complicate is also a utility skill to make them resort to using it. Complicate also serves a very important role in the tendrils fights. If you complicate Torment slash, it's disabled for 12 seconds, letting wastrels worry go off easily while also spiking damage. EBSoH is a party-wide damage boost, and I was short on ideas. The damage output of the Shared Burden Mesmer is also greater than vor if you're talking a span of three seconds. Innoruuk 17:15, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Arcane Mimicry also serves the purpose of being the safety harness for the team. In our noob-proof runs (only had 4 so far), we had the PI mimic UA just in case. We haven't needed it, but there's always going to be one bad run, one bad lag. Innoruuk 17:31, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's been 0 arguing for 4 days. Who died? seriously, I need all the ideas you can spare. If I put this out today, I have a feeling Tahiri would still vote it around a 3. :P. Innoruuk 15:20, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly it's really pretty solid now. I just feel like it might be becoming too close to doa casterspike to warrant it's own page--TahiriVeila 21:41, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Pyshic Instability
Why? Panic works better. ¬ Docta Rask Jenkins  21:56, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Answer me woman. ¬ Docta Rask Jenkins  22:01, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * You didn't see the original builds. I was intending to use wastrel's worry on 6 enemies as the spike using the 4s kd. It works solidly anywhere else. We changed it up shortly though because of enrage. Innoruuk 22:29, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you want a really good example of places where a kd and wastrel spike works really well, fully ball up a group in Urgoz's warren, Psych knock on splinter weapon cast, use dif targets for Worry (and also Demise if ur ambitious) and watch those suckers explode. Anything else can be rounded up with esurge. As per the effed up exhaustion tree, our team just uses a signet spammer, earthbind on the sos, and one spell cast per party member. If you can make it work in the deep, it's much easier than most of the builds currently used. The one really nice freaking area for that spike is the one area it has a malfunction :P. Innoruuk 22:34, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * IGN plz ¬ Docta Rask Jenkins  22:36, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * ??? IGN=? Ignore? Ign chat name? Innoruuk 22:47, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * In-game name. -- Jai  22:48, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am disappoint. ¬ Docta Rask Jenkins 
 * Give me your info already <_< <font color="#B22">¬ Docta Rask <font color="#700">Jenkins  23:12, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Life Guardian overreacted to a mistype(week ban). Why do you want my IGN? To spam me with crap I don't want? Innoruuk 23:20, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Definitely a mistype. Life   Guardian  23:29, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I want you to believe that. I needed to copy a working link since you can't edit the "working build" pages in PVX. But unlike most people, my ctrl+c is somehow cut instead of copy. CTRL + V is still paste though. Innoruuk 23:42, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. I would have expected a month ban when I found out I'd deleted pages (once again, by mistake) if not an infinite ban. What does it take to constitute those? Innoruuk 23:46, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would comment on that first post but i have no idea what you're trying to say. And uhh, doing it again i guess :> Life   Guardian  02:23, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * We're talking about the edit to Athrun Feya's page. I needed a working link in coded form to post on my alliance's website. My control+c cuts instead of copies (don't know why probably some customization I did when I was twelve). So, that edit to her page was still an accident. I wish for you to believe that. Innoruuk 09:30, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm that wasn't a working link. That wasn't a url, it was a link that only works while on pvx. In addition, you also blanked the talk page of Caster Spike which has no relevance to your forums. Plus, why the hell were you logged off pvx to do this, and why did you save the pages if you were simply copying and pasting? It was clearly vandalism. Life   Guardian  22:28, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * The link works when you extract the coding. Like I said, the ctrl+c = cut on my comp from some childhood customization. If you press enter on a page when you have no blipping type dash |, it saves it. And periodically the site will log you off just to make sure you're still the owner. I have nothing to offer you other than explanations for a blown up accident. As per the talk page, there were decent contributions and directions in there. But, if you look at the time of night, it was getting very late so I was lazy and just hit ctrl + A. Innoruuk 23:39, September 10, 2010 (UTC)