Archive talk:Mo/W HC Healspam

2k to whoever does a proper writeup. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  19:21, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Do we look like migrant workers to you? and you're banned, so we wont see money. ;) --Dark0805 ( Rant / Contributions ) 19:25, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Trial this and put some tags on. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:09, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Oop, spoke too soon. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:09, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Already did this a few times and it wins when you have this + smiter + shattering assault + wounding strike derv. Iz gud after patient spirit buff. Anyway, spam makes you keep alive(untill they divert patient spirit, lol). - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  06:08, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * This needz moar Healing Breeze. Yes, Healing breeze, cuz it helps you maintaing your own health when some nasty warriors are building their adrenaline on you, It's a good defence against any moderate damage and of course hex and condition degen. - Ichido  13:06, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * While healing breeze might work well with HC, I think every other skill on the bar is more important. Moush 18:17, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Bump &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:10, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Maybe go major healing prayers to hit the spotless breakpoints?--Goldenstar 21:14, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * No, just bring a +ench spear/offhand set. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:29, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Didn't we face someone using this build while we were raping TA teams this morning? Misfate 21:31, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * A few people, it's meta-ish &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:31, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * No idea what meta is since I've been off GW for like a month. CATCH ME UP SKAFAG. Misfate  23:36, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Bump. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  16:03, 11 February 2008 (EST)

pretty nice build, but too sad diversion and shame kills you lol Drownz 19:43, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Too bad no good players use those in arenas lol. Too bad you're terrible if they divert a 1/4 sec cast lol &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  19:52, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * y the hell is this unfavored? Try playing b4 voting much? himynameisbobbyjoe 20:19, 12 February 2008 (EST)

skakid stop trying make this build good. its a fun gimmick, but any other form of monk pwns it, but thats just IMO. - Rhys 10:55, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * It's actually a idiotic good monk bar for when you're not top100, untill you face either mesmers(LOLWUT IS A RANGER) or hammers(disciplined stance needs to be in main bar imo, return sucks). —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  07:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Did some cleanup in the stuff, this is a TA build, not RA. In RA woh or zb is just better, only reason to run this is that you need vig spirit and enchantments for SA sins, and this can survive alot easier then a woh without a hax necro. With this you can go dual frontliner + ranger. When you don't run SA sins(or dual frontliner), you run WoH. I also changed this to mo/w(didn't moved yet), since return won't avoid having a 6+ sec knocklock from hammer. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  08:00, 27 February 2008 (EST)

This build is BAD. This build is better if you want Vigorous in so badly. Railin 12:00, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 * Too much energy waste to vig spirit maintainance. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  06:29, 28 February 2008 (EST)
 * 5 energy every 30 seconds (+20%) isn't a lot. 10 if you're playing with 2 SAs. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 11:06, 28 February 2008 (EST)
 * And then you die, since woh monks can't survive well alone. This can. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  17:02, 28 February 2008 (EST)
 * Spotless are great for hex/cond stacks in TA which are rather common. CoP is leet for defense. They can't touch your frontliners when they have vig on them. What I'm trying to say, is I agree with Unexist. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 17:04, 28 February 2008 (EST)
 * So I was bored one day and decided to try this in RA.. disregard everything I said above. ^_^ Though it's not as good as regular WoH, it's not as bad as I thought. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 13:41, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Needs moar tags
We should make some variants in this build to get it tagged for other forms of PvP and even PvE. In PvE, you'd probably be able to to put in Healing Seed, and Seed of Life (by replacing Contemplation of Purity and Disciplined Stance so you can aslo focus on Divine Favor). Although, in PvE, I'd probably try to get a more spammable spell than Dwayna's Kiss, like Healing Whisper, and leave Dwayna's Kiss to the Healer's Boon Monks. With all that energy management, you could probably even afford to use Blood Ritual, just for the hell of it. -Mike 07:09, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * PvE you'd run a totally different bar. Go make a PvE build for this then, don't put stupid tags on PvP builds. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  05:27, 4 March 2008 (EST)

lawl
PvX people are dumbasses... the exact same build was posted by tcyn and then me and got unfavoured, now u vet this as good... dumbasses... himynameisbobbyjoe 16:39, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * Lol, skill updates. Patient Spirit pwns now. too bad you missed the mark.--Relyk 21:43, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Removed Ratings
Unexist is just a wee bit protective of this build im guessing.--Relyk 21:46, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * He altered the build. Claims are just claims. -Shen 21:48, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * It's just that everyone agrees, this pretty much sucks if you equal it with woh in normal team builds. It's original design is(like I already said), Ta with 2 fronliners(including SA sin for monk-raping) and a ranger, thus your fronlinters can't die(and they die fast) and you're kiting all the time(1/4 casts make it possible). This shouldn't go RA, since WoH owns(in good hands). People just started randomly copy this and fake it to go RA with it, but it's not that good over there, woh's are better. You're a bit right i suppose, i'm protecting this build since it's damn good(and overpowered), but people just start running it in different stuff where you pretty much get owned in the face. It's like running aegis in RA. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  05:31, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Just as a side note, this build is actually pretty strong in RA due to CoP. In RA you usually lose games because of bad luck with opposing teams, if you get to fight against a team with two hex spammers stacking up Backfire, Migraine, Soul Leach, Diversion and other stuff on you even the best WoH monk won't be able to handle that with only Holy Veil on his bar while CoP handles this pretty easily. I tried it in RA today just for the fun of it and made one streak of 15, one of 10 and another one of 9 with alot of melee and hex pressure going on and was pretty surprised how good the build was working with random teams. If you dont get paired with Rangers running WoH and Paras creating Flesh Golems you should easily get some glad points in RA if you know what you're doing, so good job protecting this and keep on plz, it's getting kinda annoying lately to see any AB/CM build getting 5-5-5 ratings as long as you throw Crit Defenses and Mystic Regen in there while serious builds are getting trash votings from people having either no clue or beeing to lazy to even test it.. --Makku 21:34, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

CoP is only once every 10 seconds, disciplined is only for 4s every 15s. Any real melee/spear pressure will take this build down. Railin 02:14, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * No, not really. Theorycraft less, kk? --71.229 02:19, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I've played vs enough of these as hammer warrior. Unless they sucked horribly, this isn't theorycraft. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 12:20, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Stop failing honestly. you almost definetly killed it in RA. In TA this monk:keeps a blind bot that will rape you on your ass, lets a SA sin kill your monk, and lets any third character that wants to come along... not die. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 09:02, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Is that any different from what a normal WoH does? [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 12:25, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, it actually does. It uses enchantments so SA sins can keep living, and dervishes can spam mystic sweep. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  11:22, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Also, against hammers, you have disciplined. If you just do proper timing(don't get bull'sed, disciplined against hammer bash(if they suck, you already use it at crushing)), and you should keep living. Unless you have like a 12 sec knocklock, this doesn't different much from a woh(they corrupt/rend guardian/sb there and you're just as much screwed). —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  11:25, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

LOL at Unexist saying "you can't bring Vig Spirit on a WoH bar" in response to my comment in the rating section. Yes you can, stop being bad. Zuranthium 04:48, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
 * stop being bad urself. unless you run some gimped out double midline, maintaining vigorous on a WoH with >1 frontliner/physical(i.e. a team that will actually kill) is impossible. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 08:31, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Go ahead and take it on a WoH bar. It's good there, your wars keep alive. And now let's be serious, okay? You have yourself a brain, otherwise you wouldn't be have OMG I HAVE TOP100 EXP. So you could realise this for yourself. A WoH just lacks defense more then this with a physical frontline(yeah it works, but guardian nerf made it hard to keep yourself up). With 3 frontliners/physicals, they'll be targeting you 24/7. Guardian dshot isn't that hard then, and when they do, you're dead. That's reason one while i'd not take vig spirit on a WoH(oh, and yeah, you can take it like i said, but it's just awesomesauce hard and you're under pressure pretty much the whole match and decent rangers won't miss your guardian more then twice, you're dead meat then). Point number 2: vig spirit is awesomesauce with the other enchantments. You can use it as cover, as extra CoP removal, ect. You won't have that with a WoH monk. Point 3: vig spirit makes your bar go QQ. You can't take SoA or other forms of self-defense then, unless you're running dismiss(which makes you lose anyway). Also, i'm bad yeah, but if you actually run a woh with vig spirit over covnant in physical way ur even worse. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  14:23, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Anyway to
switch around attributes so 9 in tactics, one away from getting the armor bonus from the shield! :3 ﮎHædõ๘  یíɳ  21:49, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, saw the equips, but wut about us poor people xD. ﮎHædõ๘  یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 21:50, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Just get a R8 +15AL shield instead of 16AL. 1 less AL probably won't tip the balance of battle in TA. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas  23:59, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Those aren't nearly as common as max shields, and you can't just make such a PvP shield. Gaze Of Balthazar 19:07, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

Move?
Build:Mo/any HC Healspam. I'd rather run Return than Discplined Stance in RA or AB. Disciplined Stance should be a variant anyways.--Relyk 11:48, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * return has always been worse than disciplined for this monk. and its a TA build we dont document a lesserversion because it can also be run in other places that demand different skills. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 11:52, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * If you're running it in covenantway (meaning you have constant anti-KD) then Return is loads loads loads better. &mdash;  Skakid  11:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * So in covenant way its /a? its viable on any physical centric team, to document the shitty version because of just one of those teams(albeit the most well known, i'll grant you that) still seems counter productive. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 11:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * ...return has always been worse... Was wrong, and I corrected you. &mdash;  Skakid  12:00, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * O i c. i misunderstood you. --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 12:08, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I was talking about Mo/any, although return would be nice in optional atleast but that require Mo/any article.--Relyk 21:29, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Return is alot better than Disciplined stance if youre not facing KD. Its like having a mini pocket Criplash warrior protecting you all the time with if you have 7 in Shadow Arts and a crippling mod on your weapon. If you look carefully at your surrounding, you can sometimes avoid the KD chain from a warrior when you see them coming in melee range. You can also sometimes manage to use Return after they land Crushing Blow and charge up Heavy blow as you get up and ruin their skill chain. HC monks dont have any way to reduce constant melee pressure if they just use Disciplined stance. Eventually, you cant keep up against the pressure because you have to remove conditions on yourself with CoP and you run out of energy.
 * I personally prefer Grasping Earth... In RA, not many have hex removal.  12:28, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Patient Spirit
Is it me or did ANET just screw over the covenant + patient spirit combo? Could've sworn it still worked wonderfully yesterday but now patient only heals for 86 rather than the 114 it is supposed to. --Saz 09:38, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * God I hope not. I'm at work, can't test. Go test my minions! Stealth updates ftl! - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  09:41, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * NOOOOOOOOOO!!!  09:43, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Do NOT tell me that was confirmation! Confirm or refute! Confirm or refute! - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  10:04, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * HOPING IT WASN'T!!!!  10:04, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Damn edit conflict XD, TWICE, anyway, this makes me QQ. It's undocumented though cause I can't seem to find anything about it. It apparently now checks if you have covenant on you when it triggers (doesn't matter on who it's casted.) If you cast it with Cov on, and then turn it off before it triggers it heals for the full deal, if you cast patient with cov off, then put cov on, it's reduced :< --Saz 10:05, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Damnit.  10:07, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * So... Archive? On the plus side, this should mean that Signet of Rejuvenation would work properly with HC, unless they were dumb when they fixed the bugs. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  10:11, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It didn't affect vig spirit though o.O; Which is rather weird imo. Edit: Tested the signet, still gets reduced QQ. Meaning they were dumb when they fixed the bugs. On the bright side, just tested patient + healers boon, which heals for a whopping 171. --Saz 10:12, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't archive I say... 1 heal loses effectiveness, and only about 30hp or so. Weaker, but not dead.  10:19, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

(RI)Make me sad. I'm sure others will scream for Archive, I might run it tonight and see if it's still viable, otherwise WoH it is. -  isery   -TALK  10:22, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree with Frvwfr2 although ppl will scream for archive as Misery said. I swear I'm jinxed O.O I didn't run this for ages and now when I finally feel comfterable with this QQ --Saz 10:27, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

I've heard that the Spotless skills are now unbugged, and do not end a condition/hex on removal as they used to, further weakening this build. BrotherWulfric 16:45, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * 'S true. GG Izzy, I guess. --71.229 16:46, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Was it even a bug? I meant that Healer's Covenant was a viable skill, and this is a pretty big hit to an already underused skill (indirectly to HC). I think that Patient Spirit+HC was good as it was, but I like how Patient Spirit+Healer's Boon works now (~220 point heals are pretty ftw, but that's at 15 Healing Prayers and 13-14 DF). -Mike 17:00, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Healer's Boon monks typically don't do any prot though. So 14 HP and 13 DF is pretty standard. Edit: 213 Point heal at those stats.  17:02, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * More like 14HP 12 DF 6 insp, channeling is ftw--Goldenstar 17:10, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Okay, 210. But anyways, HB is run in GvG as well...  17:12, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * And PvE, it so didn't need a buff, but there you have it. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  17:17, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Well, my HB Monk Hero usually runs with about 15 HP, 14 DF, and 3 Inspiration if he uses Channeling. Otherwise, I'll give him 6 or 8 points in Inspiration for Power Drain/Waste Not Want Not, but that is on a hero, afterall. I'll definitely put Patient Spirit on him if it works with HB. -Mike 17:21, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Rune suicide! WTB more hp. But yeh, patient works with HB. Anyway, about this build again, adding a major rune instead of a minor would solve the spotless spells, but sadly at the cost of 35hp :< and patient isn't complete crap in this build, but I haven't completely tested it out again in full action. --Saz 17:42, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * If you want to bring Majors, I suggest you take a Spear of Enchanting/Fortitude and a Focus of Fortitude/Devotion. All that 20/20 crap won't do much here. XD Also, you've got Survivor Runes, so it shouldn't be a real problem. -Mike 17:46, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Well it's still nice to have it recharged in 1.5 secs or cast kiss in 1/5sec, so a 40/40 set is always useful, so whenever I'm not directly targeted I switch to that set... Just sad that it also means you lower your health from a whopping 650 to 615 while using the spear/shield, or 555 with a 40/40 set instead of 590. I guess 615hp is still nice and I'm probably just being picky now, but I always loved running around with that much health and still spam stuff like there was no tomorow :P --Saz 17:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Archive
Yes, it's weaker but 30 points isn't THAT much... It's still effective. 11:49, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Its a hell of a lot weaker Rawrawr  11:52, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It was already crappy as the build's only real selfheal, now that it's weaker, it has no reason not to be archived. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 11:56, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It sucked hard outside of cway anyway. Rawrawr  12:02, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Anyone tried to play with it again anyway? --Saz 20:42, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * But still you can still run it in c-way. No reason to archive. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  15:13, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

Are You Serious
Do you guys even play RA? This is by far one of the most popular RA monk builds there is right now. At least 50% of the monks I see use it, and do well. The fact that everybody is so uncoordinated in RA makes up for the weaknesses of this build (no protective spirit). Far from being archived, I would say that this build belongs in the great section for RA. Obviously in TA, when everyone is calling spikes in vent, this build is worthless.
 * You dont spike in TA, you just run balanced and win in 15 seconds. Rawrawr  12:12, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

I use something akin to this and I love it. 15 healing and 14 DF. Energy becomes a non-issue with HC and you can put a lot of +hp on the suits you wear. I use healing breeze instead of disciplined stance. You can almost maintain 4 enchantments on your team mates and the kiss becomes a monster heal in that case. When enemy tries to focus on you CoP and some kiting usually saves the day. I'll try the same with HB instead of HC and Infuse instead of Breeze. But I doubt it will be as effective. Ekasim 08:21, 14 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Um... Don't use Infuse in small arenas. You'll get ganked. This used to be competitive with a Hybrid Heal/Prot bar, now that 3 of the skills have been fixed to behave correctly, it still works, but it's inferior to a Hybrid bar with correct usage. It is easier to use, but it's not as effective. Red bars go up is not particularly effective in arenas where there is only one monk, so a Healer's Boon monk won't be that effective either, try to learn to use a prot or hybrid monk correctly and you'll start chomping through most teams. - [[image:miserysig1.jpg]] isery   -TALK  08:29, 14 April 2008 (EDT)
 * don't listen to Misery. Healing Breeze is WAY better than any protection spell. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  08:36, 14 April 2008 (EDT)
 * trollan. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 17:33, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

Unarchive?
This build still owns, been monking with it for about two weeks now.--і†оκαҐυ 00:27, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
 * The problem is that you heal for very little, and you haven't much protection for you allies (Guardian.) ــмıкε  нaшк  09:52, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Who needs protection when you have Mass healing. And no, the healing isn't small. And i use SoH with mine... Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 09:11, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * They fixed Patient Spirit so that it's effected by HC. That is still there, and thus it will still be archived. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 09:12, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Then take it out? Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 09:15, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * If you need to change any skills to unarchive something, then you shouldn't be unarchiving it; make it on another page with the new skills. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  09:15, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * THEY FIXED PATIENT SPIRIT SO IT'S EFFECTED BY HC'S HEALING REDUCTION. Thus, it can't provide the power heals. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 09:16, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes it can Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 09:17, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Losing 25% of a 114 heal isn't a powerheal. WoH is a powerheal. This can't anymore. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 09:18, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't argue. Just post it on a new page please. This is archived because it was Meta at one point; it's a record of what the build was. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  09:20, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

The fact that this build is in Archive shows the badness of about 2/3 of the wiki-users. it still rocks RA, there are some monks in korean district who only play this build all the time and own faces, especially in the very hex-heavy meta we face at the moment. mass healing/removal > protection atm. but anyways, there has been enough discussion about this by now but still i just had to take part in the "HC-still-rocks"-movement in this thread. <font color="Darkblue">Looks like Breitschleif 20:12, 17 January 2009 (EST)

This build needs to get taken out of archive. I am running a variant of this with guardian and it owns. I've been getting at least 5 wins each time in RA. I dont think that this build will work in TA because it can't spike heal very well but the energy management is amazing. I put in Words of Comfort instead of Dwayna's so I could have another self heal and you can spam patient, word, and vigorous spirit all day long. You can die and come back and heal like you've never died because of HC. The only build that seems to trump this is a corrupt enchantment Necromancer. But seriously all this build needs is a few variants added.--131.92.97.131 11:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)