User talk:Shadeinthebox/A/Mo Deadly Whisperer

WELL
What does this build offer? That's bad. And it's plain inferior to any illusion magic mesmer build with a snare and a rupt. You could even say that it is inferior to a water magic elementalist, and we all know how ineffective they are. I don't think that it does PvX well to have this build in its build namespace and I'd prefer to see it moved to the author's user subpages. --Krschkr (talk) 13:37, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * A 33% snare which can only with luck/prediction be applied to two targets simultaneously.
 * A half-range interruption which has a full 0.25 activation time + projectile flight time.
 * A conditional knockdown with short recharge time, that cannot be properly used in combat. To trigger the knockdown you first have to move a good distance away from the target. Meanwhile you can't use any skills because (A) you're moving and (B) you've moved out of mid-range of foes.
 * A conditional deep wound with a recharge time halved to 10 seconds.
 * A weak mid-range healing spell which is limited by the build's energy management.
 * A solid resurrection.
 * The elite skill offers very weak healing and a hex removal.
 * No damage whatsoever.
 * Doubled recharge and skill activationt ime when an uncovered enchantment is removed.
 * Illusion magic snares snare for 50%, which actually allows team members to kite the foes somewhat effectively. If you need to snare multiple targets you can pick shared burden for an AoE snare, including attack and casting speed, easily maintainable on 2 groups of foes due to fast casting.
 * Multiple interruption skills to chose from, most remarkably power drain for energy management and power return for a super quickly recharging interrupt. Advantage: Not half-range, reduced activation time, no flight time, no LOS issues. Disadvantage: Not a hard rupt.
 * No good knockdown option, but this build's knockdown isn't useful anyway.
 * Immediate deep wound with accumulated pain, shorter recharge time, some additional damage (and the option to spread it to more foes with epidemic). Also less easily countered by hex removal.
 * If you feel an overwhelming urge to provide your team with healing you can go for PvE skills (breath, escape) or even combine symbolic celerity with some signets. (I don't recommend this; leave the healing to dedicated healers, you as a mesmer have so much better ways to reduce incoming damage with shutdown.)
 * Due to fast casting the resurrection time is almost as fast with song and faster with other skills like death pact signet. Pact@3 resurrects with more energy than song@12 and the same amount of health for no energy investment and at full range.
 * Limited hex removal. There are options like hex eater signet or inspired hex, but they aren't necessarily suitable for every area.
 * Plenty of options for (AoE) damage.
 * Doesn't suffer from enchantment removal.
 * If you have another assassin build that focuses on half range spells and half range healing skills and makes this half range focused build inferior then please mark it for deletion. But do not mark a build for deletion just because somewhere out there another class does it better, otherwise all the ele builds would be gone and we would only have mesmer builds. The PvX is not meant for strictly the best, that is why there is rating and meta category. Thanks Shadeinthebox (talk) 14:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * PvX isn't meant for strictly the best, it is meant for builds which are at least pretty good. (And I'll repeat what I explained to you at a different place: Meta doesn't mean the best, it is a category of popularity.) But the criterium of being at least pretty good is something this build doesn't meet. It is bad. You dug up this decade old idea of utilizing half-range skills with deadly haste and combined almost all skills which make sense for this concept, but even with the optimizations it remains to simply be a bad build. It doesn't deal damage, its single target snare isn't strong enough to have an effect on the gameplay, the condition to trigger the knockdown is clunky and counteracting the rest of the build, thus prohibits a purposeful use of it, the interruption is a half-range projectile. If PvX would accept storing builds which are the best "of their category", it would be flooded with terrible builds which are best at using a niche mechanic or skill type. Imagine a build which does nothing but use flash enchantments with an initial AoE damage effect; one would be kept because it would be the best, yet terrible, flash enchantment initial effect build. Imagine a degeneration build. Its highest possible damage output is 20 damage per second, even if it is the very best build in doing that. And that wouldn't even be as bad as this assassin build, because it would at least deal 20 damage per second against an unspecified amount of foes. All which builds like this can achieve is giving PvX a bad reputation. Instead of doing that you could actually help the community by testing and rating the large amount of builds in the untested categories. --Krschkr (talk) 15:06, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * A build needs to accomplish some in-game goal and do it efficiently to be worth storing. Utilizing a mechanic (half-ranged skills) is not a goal, it is a means to achieve a goal. Dealing damage, disrupting, healing, tanking, farming, etc. are goals. This build has some weak, clunky, single-target CC and energy-intensive healing spam (with no energy management). Also Deep Wound that the build itself cannot reliably trigger. It's not a valuable addition to a team because it's not doing anything important other than maybe the healing (which it is not good at). Standard assassin builds can have much stronger CC and deep wound application while also dealing high damage. Missing out on mediocre healing isn't much of a loss, because this build can't replace a dedicated healer in the team anyway.
 * Unfortunately for the dreams of would-be healer Assassins everywhere, the class simply doesn't support a healing playstyle. You could certainly place ally target heals on an assassin bar, but it's disadvantaged in actually using them compared to almost any other class (warriors and rangers would be worse, I'll give you that) due to the lack of bonuses or viable energy management. Critical Strikes isn't good energy management for a caster bar because you have to stop casting to utilize it. -Toraen (talk) 12:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Now in userspace
This isn't going to pass WELL or vetting (if we were to let it be vetted) so it is moved here during Shadeinthebox's ban. They can decide what to do with it when they get back. -Toraen (talk) 15:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)