Archive talk:W/Rt Solo Destroyer Core

Well after posting a video of my build on Youtube, it was only a matter of time before someone posted it up here. I have made some slight changes to the instructions and attributes. Elpedro 18:31, 5 November 2007 (CET)

Thxn alot m8! I think that 12 strenght is better, coz you dont need to lengthen the defense skills, and extra health and +7 health regen is more important. So I placed the 10/8 to variants. BTW could you give me your ingame name and the name of the song in your video? Thonyonline 18:43 5 november 2007 (GMT)

The attributes are exactly what I use, need the 9 tactics for the shield to be effective. I get by fine on them. IGN = Guardian Of Rurik and the song is Here(In Your Arms) by Hellogoodbye Elpedro 21:56, 5 November 2007 (CET)
 * Remember that there is something called strength shields to, not only tactics shields. --Arthas 11:59, 12 November 2007 (CET)

wts &mdash; Skuld 00:05, 6 November 2007 (CET)

This has got to be the fastest vetted into great pve build ever. It only took, like, 36 hours? ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  03:31, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * 30 hours, 48 minutes to be exact. :) --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey   (talk)  03:33, 7 November 2007 (CET)

Is this to be used in Normal Mode or Hard Mode?69.243.158.222 17:43, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * 1st wave on normal mode only. It is hard to adapt VWK to high level or hard mode foes as you are limited to 29 life steal. So if anything is dealing much more than that you are screwed. Elpedro 20:27, 7 November 2007 (CET)

Another great farm place will be nerfed :( I'm sure this will happen, sooner or later. - Ershin  (Talk ) 23:59, 7 November 2007 (CET)

Are Sentinel Insignia's that important to this build? I just got EotN so I can't really test it out myself, just wondering, thanks. Stefans 05:10, 9 November 2007 (CET)
 * Pretty much so, every HP counts on this one. Remember you are tanking numerous Spirit Rifts (lightning damage) although I managed a few runs with dreadnaughts fine Elpedro 19:49, 9 November 2007 (CET)

It seems like the changes to Weapon of Warding sort of anti-nerfed this build. I'm finding it much easier to survive now, since WoW lasts up until VWK is recharged. I'm also finding that, if you put a furious mod on the +5/+30 sword, you really don't need "Shields Up!". By the time you'd cast it, Bonetti's Defense is already fully-charged. That leaves some more energy open for Endure Pain (if needed), and a space for an optional skill slot. Just an observation. (Edit: The furious mod on the sword really doesn't seem to have any effect on how fast Bonetti's Defense charges) --Tero Gein (talk _pvxcontribs ) 23:10, 14 November 2007 (CET)

Maybe its my 782hp thats the reason for all my failure(only survive 6-7 run out of 10 run ..to the end), but i wonder about the Core-drop rate... What is a "normal", "bad" or a "good" run, when it come to counting Core-drop?? To me, a bad run: 0 Cores(usually if i die prematurely) A normal run: 1-2 Cores And a good run: 3-5 Cores

This is my exp after 60-80 runs the last 2 days, but some ppl claime that they got a lot more core-drop in there runs - so i begin to wonder, if i do something wrong in some way, if my drop-rate really is that low?? 81.161.189.146 09:47, 1 March 2008 (EST)--81.161.189.146 09:47, 1 March 2008 (EST)

"Shields Up!"
To me, Shields up is a really BAD choice. I would rather use Protector's Defense or Shield Stance instead of "Shields Up!". The problem with Shields up is the 10 energy cost and only 50% block (also, remember that armor skills don't stack anymore). Protector's Defense and Shield Stance cost only 5 energy and give a 75% block chance. Shield Stance also has a shorter recharge time than VwK. --Arthas 00:54, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * Like in my comment above, I don't think that this skill is needed at all. Since I've gotten comfortable with this build, I've never used it. I can keep Bonetti's Defense up at all times, which is far better than "Sheilds Up!". Any thoughts on alternative skills that don't involve blocking? Tero Gein 02:36, 12 November 2007 (EST)
 * Wielder's Boon? Vengeful Weapon? Note that using any skill while Bonetti's Defense is active cancels the stance.--Arthas 11:54, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * Shield Stance seems to be a poor alternative considering it would only last 3 seconds with this particular build. I tried the build using Protector's Defense and had similar results to the original build, although I did not notice any significant diffence. -Nytlemgr 14:44, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * What about using "To the Limit!" instead of Shield Stance? That way, in case the adrenaline isn't completely charged up when VwK runs out, you can quickly use TtL to charge it back up. You probably wouldn't need it all the time, but it would help when one side of destroyers starts attacking you well before the other does. --Tero Gein (talk _pvxcontribs ) 14:35, 12 November 2007 (EST)
 * Nah.. I'm thinking of Great Dwarf Armor, the question is wether or not any of the destroyer uses enchanment removal... EDIT: ...and they did :/ --Arthas 22:04, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * I've been using TtL in this build, and it does help if, for some reason, Bonetti's Defense isn't fully charged when you need to cast it. That doesn't happen very often, but at least it's better than "Sheilds Up!", which just sat there. I really can't think of anything else that would be useful in this slot, since the destroyers use enchantment removal skills. (as Arthas pointed out) --Tero Gein (talk _pvxcontribs ) 06:52, 14 November 2007 (EST)

Protector's Defense
OK, we've established that Protector's Defense is a much better choice than "Shields Up!", but I still don't get the point of having any extra blocking skills on this build. I guess I'm still waiting for an explanation of why Protector's Defense is needed when Bonetti's Defense works just fine throughout the entire run without using any energy. Why not use something like Lion's Comfort instead to try and counter Lamentation/Spirit Rift spikes when Endure Pain isn't enough? --Tero Gein (talk _pvxcontribs ) 17:27, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * Protector's Defense is for the first round, or whenever Bonetti's is not charged when you drop VWK, considering you need the 75% block to survive almost always. This is just what I've found through using this build hundreds of times. Freaking 17:45, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Wand
Just tried doing a run with the Wayward Wand (restoration) from factions endgame instead of a totem axe (mainly to try reduce recharge time of VwK by 50%). This totally screwed the run since it caused some of the destroyers to use Chaos Storm on me. It drained my energy and eventually killed me, so i recommend a note about not using any Staff/Wand during this run. Since its not my build i don't want to write the note unless the author thinks its important. --Arthas 12:12, 12 November 2007 (CET)
 * I don't think I have any authority over what people add, change or remove from my build. Equipment does state use of a specific shield and axe, so if they want to use a staff and not follow the instructions, that is their choice. I believe we shouldn't "spoon" feed though. Elpedro 19:10, 12 November 2007 (CET)

ARGH
WHO CHANCED MY BUILD AND PLACED THE COUNTER ON IT!!#$%&"$%&_?!#$&!#$%& thats not ok to do, since its my build (and elpedro, so if you did it, no problem =P)!!! GSUS PLZ GUYS THIS IS NOT NICE &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thonyonline (contribs).
 * Calm the fuck down. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 18:08, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * And don't remove comments. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:00, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * It is not *your* build. It is our build. - Rawrawr  19:21, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * Counters are NEEDED in farm builds. Lamentation spike has killed me loads of times, even when VwK is active. If u are new to the build and just enter without knowing about Lamentation and Spirit Rift, u are bound to get slaughtered if u are not ready for it. I placed conuters in the build and I still stand for it. EDIT: I know i don't like to be killed in an instant by something i'm not aware of. Yes, it is an obvious counter, once u have done 5 runs or so.--Arthas 22:53, 13 November 2007 (CET)
 * Heh, it wasn't me who added it. I don't find it a problem because you should be able to use Endure Pain if you are low on health. I personally haven't been killed by lamentation since I was testing the build, closest I came I just Endure Pain. May be you are really unlucky dude, but I'm not disputing adding it to the page. I love this hypothetical use of it being "our" build. I understand all wiki users are able to look, edit, rate, change etc but at the end of the day I tested and put those 8 skills into the bar and decided to show it on youtube =p Elpedro 19:26, 14 November 2007 (CET)
 * Ok srry, just thinking that some1 was trying to change the whole build srry realy srry Thonyonline 19:36 14 november 2007 (GMT)
 * But this is not nice because Arthas is chancing elpedro's build with it skills, and that not realy right, since i placed it here, and so im the only one wo can change skills Thonyonline 19:02 15 november 2007 (GMT)
 * I added a relevant variant lol. There is no drawback in using Protector's Defense instead of Shields Up!. I won't change any skills in the acctual build. We have discussed wether or not Shields Up! is a good choice for this build and it seems the answer is no. You can't argue with Protector's Defense being a better choice compared to Shields Up!. --Arthas 19:19, 15 November 2007 (CET)
 * I always try to make builds as effective as possible, and as the build looks right now, its not as effective as it COULD be. I would use Shields Up! if armor skills stacked but THEY DON'T anymore (Thanks ANet, you ruined most builds). I won't change the acctuall build (as it has been vetted) but I will add variants if they are relevant and works better than the original. --Arthas 19:31, 15 November 2007 (CET)
 * I don't get the point of having two skills that do almost same thing, one of which uses up precious energy that should be saved for Endure Pain when needed. Why not just use Bonetti's Defense from the start, save the 5 energy, and use something else? I've used either "To the Limit!" or Lion's Comfort in that slot with a lot of success, neither of which use any energy. Personally, I like Lion's Comfort more, since it provides a health boost in cases where WoW and Endure Pain aren't enough. --Tero Gein (talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 05:32, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * Shields up gives +24 armor which is very important ..... so its not a good variant. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thonyonline (contribs).
 * "Shields Up!" does nothing except give the character a 50% chance to block projectile attacks. Since Dolyak Signet is active by the time "Shields Up!" would be used, the armor bonus from "Shields Up!" doesn't stack. That's why I don't see the point in having it in the build. Bonetti's Defense is perfectly adequate, with no energy cost. Also, sign your comments. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 21:16, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * But this is not nice because Arthas is chancing elpedro's build with it skills, and that not realy right, since i placed it here, and so im the only one wo can change skills Once you submit a build to the wiki it is no longer YOUR build, it is now the wikis build. If you failed to read the terms and conditions etc then thats your problem not anyone elses. All contributions to PvXwiki are considered to be released under the a CC NC-SA 2.5 License. If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Unreal Havoc  21:30, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * THANK YOU! Now I didn't have to say it :) --Arthas 21:55, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * In any case, soldier's defense or protector's defense > shields up srsly. <font color="Brown">Edwina Elbert '*<font color="Grey">t *<font color="Grey">c *'[[Image:Edsig.jpg|19px]] 22:17, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * Also put bk the notes bout lamentation+shields up variants pls refrain from removing them again+fixed page a bit kthnxnps <font color="Brown">Edwina Elbert '*<font color="Grey">t *<font color="Grey">c *'[[Image:Edsig.jpg|19px]] 22:25, 16 November 2007 (CET)
 * Okey, il replace shields up with protectors defense, you where right, i was nooblis... srry about that. but lamentation spike?? never died because of that, so thats not realy a good counter, since i cant realy see why its deadly. But thnx alot for the protectors defense and forgive me being so noob =P Thonyonline 9:00 16 november 2007 (GMT)
 * Why do u refuse to admit that lamentation+spirit rift can kill u ? <font color="Brown">Edwina Elbert '*<font color="Grey">t *<font color="Grey">c *'[[Image:Edsig.jpg|19px]] 11:13, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * Because if you just use the skills as said so, u wont get killed by anything in the first wave Thonyonline 12:13 16 november 2007 (GMT)
 * o rly? <font color="Brown">Edwina Elbert '*<font color="Grey">t *<font color="Grey">c *'[[Image:Edsig.jpg|19px]] 13:50, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * I must be really unlucky who dies from lamentation even though i'm using Endure pain. --Arthas 16:08, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * Heh, no kidding. Apparently Thonyonline is the only person who uses this build and never dies. Seriously, anything more than 10x Lamentation and 15x or so Spirit Rift will cause over 1,000 damage, and that happens all the time. Accept it! --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 17:18, 17 November 2007 (CET)

What if you do this with a QZ ranger hero to? constant QZ could let u keep VwK up all the time. --Arthas 15:36, 17 November 2007 (CET)
 * I've actually done that a few times trying to figure out if a variant of this build would work in hard mode. I farmed in normal mode to get the hang of it, but I noticed a substantial decrease in core drops when using a hero. Since QZ isn't really needed to survive most runs, I wouldn't recommend it. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 17:21, 17 November 2007 (CET)

RT
can it be doe with RT

No because Wars need the str attribute for many of theese skills, witch is not availbe to rits69.47.168.130 03:16, 20 November 2007 (CET)
 * Not to mention the fact that 800+ health is required for this build (not including Endure Pain), which is unattainable for a Ritualist primary. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 09:07, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Well... i survive(7 out of 10 run) with 782hp ..I guess less hp can do it, but then ull be spamming Endure Pain more than good is for ur energy management. --81.161.189.146 05:04, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Lightning Damage
I think the piercing damage shield is useless because with bonnetis the arrows do nothing. I was wondering is some1 who has a +10 against lightning shield could test how it works as i do not have a lightning shield. TY. Hoax 22:28, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * I'm running a -5/20% and a knight's headgear, it doesn't really matter that much I think. When I die it's always due to 10* lamentation. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 03:55, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * My shield is simply a -5/20 and hp+30 and there are times where I die and times I don't when I don't change anything... Maybe it is simply the chance of the run but I don't see how +10 armor for lightning would do all that much or piercing damage really when half of the time you aren't even getting hit by projectiles [[Image:Joshgt2Charge!.jpg|19px]] <font color=#FFA500>Joshgt2  <font color=#FFA500>(Talk) 23:45, 9 December 2007 (CET)
 * There's also the fact that, sometimes, you don't have enough adrenaline to use Bonnetti's Defense before VwK runs out. This is where the piercing damage reduction comes in handy. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 00:17, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Unclaimed Items
Is there something that I am missing? Everytime I die, I do not have the unclaimed items window so I can gather the items that dropped. Staples 22:06, 3 December 2007 (CET)
 * I'm not having that problem at all... Maybe it is due to the fact that no items are dropping for you [[Image:Joshgt2Charge!.jpg|19px]] <font color=#FFA500>Joshgt2  <font color=#FFA500>(Talk) 01:53, 5 December 2007 (CET)
 * Sooo...I'm a noob...and somehow my window migrated its way off of my screen. Damn, I bet I could have gotten all my cores by now... Staples 02:16, 5 December 2007 (CET)

What Am I Doing Wrong?
I have been following this build skill by skill but I don't see how anyone does this. I have watched the video that was lastly added that shows this build in use with the skills on the build page and I can't seem to get this to work. The furthest I get is about 5 seconds before I can cast my second VwK before I die but even if I put endure pain on the next round will kill me for sure. Is there something that I'm missing in this because I don't see why I take sooo much more damage than anyone else is, such as the guy in the video, who doesn't even touch endure pain....  Josh gt2   (Ta  lk)  21:26, 12 December 2007 (CET)
 * Make sure you use bonetti's after wowarding. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 08:55, 14 December 2007 (CET)
 * Ok, going to have to try that... I can tell you right now that I use Bonetti's followed by Weapon of Warding most/if not all of the time. Going to try this and report what happens [[Image:Muddy Terrain.jpg|19px]]  Josh gt2   (Ta  lk)  04:30, 18 December 2007 (CET)

Well i don't know if its was nerfed but i cant stand against the first wave! I just kill one or two before dying miserably, not enough energy or not enough life always the same result, killed in less than a minute as soon the 2 groups starts to attack me. I have tried to play differently, nothing to do, always a failure. i have the right build, the right equipment, i follow the rules but i think its an old video with differents waves. By the way, Bonetti is a poor choice, no energie return and many times its an energy management problem. I have changed protector' defense for wary stance and i have succededKemydes 16:40, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * If you're dying before the first wave, I don't know what to tell you. What are your health/energy after casting Signet of Stamina? I've been running this build exactly as it was shown in the movie with about a 92% success rate. Also, I don't see how Bonetti's Defense is an "energy management problem" when it doesn't cost any energy to begin with. The only time I ever have any sort of energy shortages is in the rare instance where I have to cast Endure Pain twice in one run. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 03:17, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Did they buff the first wave of destroyers?
I have been using this build for a month with relative ease. Today, I log on and have consistently been getting lamentation spiked 7-8 times in a row. That is no exaggeration. I go from about 400-0 health in a matter of 1-2 seconds. This has *NEVER* happened before. This usually happens after the second or third time VwK is down and "I Will Avenge You" ends. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.108.92.136 (contribs).
 * Is anyone else experiencing this? I'm wondering if they did a silent buff increase to the rate lamentation occurs with the first wave destroyers. I haven't had this problem until today. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.108.92.136 (contribs).
 * Also, spirit rifts seem to be happening a lot more. Been averaging 130-160 every run. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.108.92.136 (contribs).
 * First of all, please sign your comments using the four tildes (~), it makes some of the peoples jobs here a bit easier. Second of all, I havn't seen any big change in anything quite yet. Maybe your just getting bad spawns or something [[Image:Muddy Terrain.jpg|19px]]  Josh gt2   (Ta  lk)  01:42, 19 December 2007 (CET)


 * Wait a minute, you're saying that you go from 400 health to 0? Are you sure you're using Signet of Stamina before entering the battle? If you're following the build correctly, your health should be at least 800 after using SoS... --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 00:21, 25 January 2008 (EST)

For some reason i did they did, the first wave is always killing me now, they never use to. Ssj2TrunksB 19:00, 19 December 2007 (EST)


 * Just tried once, no problem at all. And I'm using a knight's headgear, totem axe, major axe rune and -5/20 shield. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:17, 19 December 2007 (EST)


 * First time i was reading about this, i diddent understand the problem - Cuz i did not have this problem at all.

Yesterday, after close to 1000 runs(not sure, but sold more than 2000 core from this farm), i begin to see something strange/new happen. I started a run, placed myself on the spot and wate... when both groups start attacking me, i hit VwK and then the usual stuff.. But while i was wating for VwK to recharge, i discover, that they cant really hit me(2-8dmg pr hit)..not dangerous Lamentation-dmg or anything??...so i was keep going happy waching them die ..until i realiced, they diddent drop anything at all(i can usualy pick up 7-10 weaps, 2-6 cores, dyes, lockpicks and money) ..but nothing!

Next run was just as strage - same thing, but this time they drop: 2 Lockpicks, 1 core and 1 dye ..nothing more!

Then i had a short brake and was wondering what was going on ..whent back for farm again and now... i cant survive for the seccond VwK is recharged!?! Well.. my first thougth was, "u must be very tired" ..lag of concentration or something(i usualy did this run(W/Rt) in sleep/with ease) But fact is, no matter how hard i try concentrate and check for change in Build, Armor or Weapon ..i now only survive 1 out of 10 runs??! (before i died 1 out of 15-20 runs) So i can confirm that some drastic change have happen, but i wonder(since not all have it - and when, not on the same time) it must have somthing to do with how long u have been farming this(not thinking about the farming code)cant figure out how this "calculation" works, but im pretty sure its not a "coinsidence" or "bug-related" ! --Looser --81.161.189.146 03:53, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I haven't noticed anything different about the core drop rate or the AI of the destroyers here. Sometimes, you just get unlucky and get spiked a few times in a row. It's also possible, as far as the wierd drop pattern you were seeing, that had something to do with ANet changing the drops so Four-Leaf Clovers and Shamrock Ales no longer dropped. I don't know about the drop rate changing based on how long you've been farming in one certain area, since I never farm for more than 2-3 hours at a time, but I don't think there's any formula in place that would change something like that. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong on this. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 14:10, 18 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Well.. All about the sometimes unlucky-speach, i can only say that im very aware about that pattern - i even noticed a serten "wave-pattern".. like sometimes its a lot harder and other times its lees hard. Sure its the same for the droppattern as well. But i was allready aware of that(and a lot of other things) before i was writing about this, so it have nothing to do about what u talk about ...and yes, ull die sometimes ..but going from a rate where i die 1 out of 15-20 run, to die 9 out of 10??! ..unless i have been unaware of having my left hand chopt off(or suddenly getten retard) its very clear that something new happen in there.
 * And no... its notthing to do with the 4leaf/beer-change, since i got my last drop of them TODAY - and yes.. i actually did notices the change, since had a crash then they did(after the crash - no more of that drop).


 * You obviesly dont have the problem, and i think u delivered the answer as well - u diddent farm the area very long at the time(as i started my writting before, i could not understand the problem they where talking about ..before it actually happen!). But again.. there still a few more ppl than me, that have dicovered this trange behavier in the first wave of foe - what can i say ..its like ..they raised one or two more lvl's now and therefor harder to kill/like they hit with alot more dmg, more lammentation is used than before..(an exsample.. died in a splitsec. from a "unyfied hit" of 16x lammentaion(before it was something like ..from 6x to max 12x Lammentation)
 * About the droprate, its alot better than zero drop before ..but still not the same as before(also before 4leaf and beer) - a good run now provide me with 3 cores at max, but runs with 0 cores is happen quite often(40% of all run) ..maybe its time for farming other areas, cuz im not sure the hard work is worth the low income..?!


 * Last i have to say, that i found a poor way go survive ..if i survive the first two rounds of VwK, i know ill survive to the end, but until then it can easely turn into death, since i calculate with the "good luck" of hitting VwK when my hp is down to 50-150hp ..and still survive lammentaion! ..50/50% ;) Looser--81.161.189.146 18:59, 18 March 2008 (EDT)


 * That's strange that you're dying so often now. I just wanted to point out, though, that I always have had Lamentation spikes over 12x, sometime even well into the 20s, so I don't think they changed that part of the AI. Still, though, only surviving 10% of the runs now seems a little off, especially since everyone I know that core farms hasn't seen a change, either. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 07:26, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


 * WELL... After 3 DAYS where i keep tryin to farm glint, keep dying, or got no drops(yes im VERY stubbern about farm)it suddenly change again over 3-4 runs ..now very close to normal - keep wondering what happen, but cant find out.
 * All i can say, it felt like a gigantic thick wall i had to rampage, to get trough ..i have been farming for years, but never ever tryid something like this before.


 * Now.. when i said its close to normal, but then not really, its because the old pattern in the way they usualy attack me aint the same as before. Before i could jump some of the skills(spare some energy, by not using WoW or PD/(BD) ..u can when u know there pattern) - now they attack so aggressevly like i have never seen before ..fells like Hard Mode, but they get hit and die just like normal ..but it means, i CANT jump ANY skills at all if i want to survive ..and sometimes that still not enough ...it takes me extreamly much more timing in how i use the skills, than it used to!! out of timing and i cant save it - i just die ..looking at the brigth side ..i get extreamly good at it after all ;)


 * Rigth now i belive i have hit my seccond "wall" after the bunnie-theme came up ...the foe change pattern again and sometimes feels like all my armor is compleatly ignored for all dmg, so i belive ill try adabt a little for the seccond time - but im still sticking to it ..wont give in XD Looser --81.161.189.146 22:42, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

I hate to say it, but now i really do give up that farm - for 2 reasons. 1)Im back to where the problem started ...i cant survive to the seccond VwK has recharged!! *.* This is REALLY some kind of a "undokumented farm-nerf"(maybe something new introdused to gwen only) ..but slowly building up over time farming in there. What i forgot to tell before(yesterday), was that i had been farming elsewhere and then went back for more farm - its was suddenly getting better than before i left, but not compleatly normal as pll in gennerel know it 2)I used to sell the cores for 400g each and the sale went just fine, but now the areas r floated by lowballers that only offer 200-250g each, leaving unexperienced sellers to belive they cant get more and they therefor sell cheap - wich again means, the hard work and trouple getting them and then the pain selling with lots of aguing for a low outcome - not worth the trouple after all..

I will now go farm elsewhere for a longer period of time ..to see what will happen when i go back and try again ..but i guess it wont be a senseble farm anymore, since everybody will have the glows then and the "marked would be closed". But even then, it could prove me, that i was rigth or wrong - time will tell! Looser ..i am -.- --81.161.189.146 12:11, 23 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Well, I haven't experienced anything that you've been experiencing, other than a slight change in the AI which causes more destroyers to sync their attacks. I still have no problems surviving, although I do have to use Endure Pain slightly more often now after the first or second casting of VwK. Have you tried using the Air of Superiority version of the build? Also, you have to expect that, after months and months of several players farming cores that the price would eventually go down. When I started, the price was 500g per, now it's more like 350g per. That comes with farming anything, though. Also, just to reiterate, there is no "undocumented farm-nerf," I think it's just getting in your head. Try the other version of the build, and see if that doesn't help. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 13:06, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

variant.
is it possible to use great dwarf armor instead of doylak signet for more armor and extra health? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Simpson man (contribs).
 * Don't know if this will work but going to try this out... [[Image:Muddy Terrain.jpg|19px]]  Josh gt2   (Ta  lk)  17:23, 24 December 2007 (EST)
 * Great Dwarf Armor will NOT work. They strip enchantment during the run or it would be really good for this... [[Image:Muddy Terrain.jpg|19px]]  Josh gt2   (Ta  lk)  12:49, 25 December 2007 (EST)

Phailing to kill the first wave.
I've got the exact required armor and Geoffer shield and i still die...i watched the damn video about 5 times now and im doing the exact same thing...too many destroyer souls...maybe a nerf or something? On 5 runs i phailed 4 of em.. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.83.195.29 (contribs).
 * Make sure you use bonetti's after wowarding. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 21:33, 25 December 2007 (EST)

I think anet nerf this build run, I wasn't having any problem clearing the first wave of destroyer but this morning I can hardly clear the first wave and the destroyer kill me before the skill recharge. -- 1/15/08 4:59PM
 * I'm having no problems at all. Out of the 30 or so runs that I did today, I only died twice. Sometimes I will get a few in a row where I die, but it definitely hasn't been nerfed. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 00:23, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Can this be adapted to solo the UW?
Can it be adapted to so solo smites, grasping darkness's etc? Za kyoukan 08:38, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * like this? – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 13:42, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Thanks. Za kyoukan 07:47, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Bonettis?
Bonetis only give energy from mele attacks.. how does this help with E management? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.109.77.113 (contribs).
 * By not costing any energy, as opposed to other defensive stances. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 14:43, 2 January 2008 (EST)
 * The point of Bonnetti's Defense is to help take some of the piercing damage from the arrows away while VwK is recharging. Otherwise, you'll have to deal with Spirit Rift/Lamentation spikes as well as all of the normal arrow damage. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 00:25, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Air of supiriority
I tried it with this skill a few times instead of Shields Up, and replaced Dolyaks signet with Diciplined stance. If you have asuran skill of 6+ it can be really usefull, especially becouse it can recharge VwK so it is possible to keep it up almost every time. Becouse you have no speed buff ( Dolyaks ), you can also dodge Spirit Rift, Reducing the damage by A LOT.

Air of supiriority is a skill, so i cannot be stripped. It can also give a nice energy en healt boost.145.53.17.186 19:31, 5 January 2008 (EST)

I dont understand the point of Protector's Defence after Watch Yourself had got a buff, coz rly in this farm you always move to dodge Spirit Rifts and Arrows sp what is the point of having a shout that ends when u move then? Besides, is u dont move, u die before even casting VWK for the second time. --<font color="Purple"><tt>I</tt>g<tt>o</tt>r<tt></tt> 18:37, 24 January 2008 (EST)
 * Lol. No you don't. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 18:47, 24 January 2008 (EST)
 * Haha, did you watch the YouTube video? The whole reason why this build is so good is because you don't have to move at all. For the vast majority of the runs, you can take all the damage that the Destroyers can dish out with SR & Lamentation, and you won't die. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 00:27, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Baby dragon dies
The baby draggon always dies before I get more than 1 or 2 drops. I stand right were the picture tells me to. Area nerfed with modified AI?12.106.19.217 05:27, 6 February 2008 (EST)Gess42212.106.19.217 05:27, 6 February 2008 (EST)
 * No, they didn't nerf it. I just did another 4 hours of core farming, and the Baby Dragon didn't even get attacked. I've had it happen once or twice that some of the destroyers start attacking it, but they've never killed it that fast. There's no way you're standing in the right spot. You should be standing on the other side of the crevace from where Baby Dragon is, not on the platform itself. --<font color="Royal Blue">Tero Gein (<font color="Gold">talk _<font color="ForestGreen">pvxcontribs ) 15:37, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Air
I replaced protecters defence with air of superiority and it helps so much, it manages energy, health, and 2 out of 3 times it recharges VwK+ all other skills, letting you have VwK up almost constantly.

Air Of Superiority
I've been using Air Of Superiority for quite some time now, and I must say, if you replace Endure Pain for this skills, it works really really great. Shall I put it in the standard build? Thonyonline 10:11 22 march 2008 (GMT)


 * I totaly agree to adding this skill - I have been struggling with major problems, tryin to survive(as u can read somewhere above) and after some farm elsewhere, i thought i would give it a try with this new skill. The first 3-4 run was pretty messed up, due to some "adaption-time" in how/when to use the skill, but now i kill thoose bastards even faster than ever before
 * In the first few runs i died half way to the end of first wave, because this skill recharged VwK so fast, that i was spamming myself out of energy(e25)faster than i could get the energy ;) well.. Used rigth, the only 2 skills i used 80% of the time in this run, was VwK and AoS. Its only in the beginning and in the end, i used "the normal old way" of this build - a VERY interesting turn!
 * About the "Score" in there, i use to get arround 275 point and up to 310 point each run - Now i sometimes get more than 330 point, wich means i do the run even faster than i use too! ...my hated "wall" just muldered away :) Looser --81.161.189.146 17:07, 24 March 2008 (EDT)
 * .(EDIT: Killing them faster aint that good IMO - They died so fast, they forgot to drop cores ..had over 10 runs and 0 cores and by killing them slower they start to drop again!...rediculous really) - Looser--81.161.189.146 19:24, 24 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I had no problems with a decreased drop rate...AoS is a great addition to this build. --[[Image:Tero Gein sig.jpg|19px]] TERO   talk  19:48, 25 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Great, AoS is now a prime skill in the build. Thonyonline 10:27 25 march 2008 (GMT)
 * I belive it wont be a problem if u learn to control the use of AoS - just said that IF u kill them to fast(= 360score^) it could be a problem - They just stop dropping cores and then, theres would be no point farming it, rigth!?! - Looser --81.161.189.146 14:36, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

All the movies on YouTube...
Since Elpedro came up with this great build and I placed it on PVX, people started placing builds on YouTube where they show other variants of the build and claim that thats their own idea. Well, here by: Elpedro, you are still the master brain behind this build. BTW: All those builds on YouTube are not really good... Thonyonline 16:57 26 march 2008 (GMT)
 * who the fuck cares? So a group of farmers on Guild Wars vaguely remembers the IGN of some random kid. la de fucking da. I can't believe how spastic people get over who made what build. - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  12:41, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * As long as the builds work, it doesn't matter. And, since Elpedro didn't invent core farming, you can't really attack other members who are making their own versions. That doesn't take anything away from him, anyway. --[[Image:Tero Gein sig.jpg|19px]] TERO   talk  17:12, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Just to let you know I didn't take any credit for the Protector's Defense and AoS skill additions, I mentioned on the video thanks to the PvX community. In fact, I kinda regret putting my IGN in there, getting anything from 2-8 PMs in game daily from random people with regards to my videos...getting boring now. Elpedro 05:26, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Broken
Something has changed. This build is now broken. 89.241.160.82 15:23, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
 * As of the March 31st update, the skill Inner Fire now works properly. This build is no longer viable. --[[Image:Tero Gein sig.jpg|19px]] TERO   talk  18:46, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
 * All I can say about this is NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!! Q__Q (slits wrists)--75.36.46.3 17:38, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Heres a question, what if you were to replace VwK with something like GW:Weapon of Remedy or better yet GW:Xinrae's Weapon, which essentially does the same thing only it's less energy and sustainable, just wondering if it's even a possability or does inner fire Nerf this too? I know that these weapon skills also steal more life then VwK in the area of 60+ and Xinrae's also limites the amount of Damage you recieve if anyone tries this build before me let me know. 68.199.122.184 07:54, 20 August 2008 (EDT)