Archive talk:Team - GvG Dual Paragon

Archive 1

Empathic sucksssssss, take Incoming/cruel spear. I prefer running this with a hammer war (dev w/prot & pact) and going mend touch cripshot so you can split him off with the fire ele and pewpew lord domages late match--TahiriVeila 00:32, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * troll? all that was just dumb. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 00:36, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or try actually playing the build/watchin g obs mkode. The whole point of this build is to just sit at stand while your flagger countersplits and your fire ele runs flags/does lord damage. Which is why you usually run with a hammer war + magebane ranger to just zzzz lineback. Next time try telling me WHY i'm wrong instead of just bitching--TahiriVeila 00:37, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is also why you take wild instead of vicious on the tpiy bar, so your hammer can just sit on prot when he's NOT linebacking--TahiriVeila 00:40, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * thats not at ALL what the build is for. you watch it once and think u know what ur talking about. you want reasons why that was dumb? Firstly, this an 8v8 build (2 paras an 8v8 build, shocking i know). They modded it for corrupted with Incoming over empathic, and turned the fire ele into a split ele. in normal matches you aren't going to run that. why would you need to pew pew lord damages with ur fire ele + cripshot when u have 2 paras, just sit them in lord room and fire, how hard is that. the build already has wild throw, you blind shit. the point isn't to "zzz lineback" when you're trying to push kills and spike. watching one match in obs and thinking youre hot shit doesn't make you good. thats "WHY you're wrong". saying dumb things like "omg watch obs mode dur hurr" and not understanding why someone ran something makes you look dumber then me. Gringo 00:43, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dear saint: watch match vs jailbait, talk to someone who actually knows how to play (like wanbe/lemming/zea like i did) before you get too bitchy. In b4 namedropping/vR/ursobad etc--TahiriVeila 00:52, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just read this, lol wanbe. --Crow 17:55, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I expect plent yof bitching from saint if I try to change the bars on mainpage so here are the bars as they SHOULD be run
MoI and bsurge make little sense as you don't need more defense to sit at stand (monks have massive energy + hammer lineback + magebane + para defence), mind blast should be mainbar, either split or stand depending on buildwars du jour. Anyway, have fun with saint's bad bars, not gonna argue on this one. You have the bars, figure it out--TahiriVeila
 * [zyzq] vs [vR]. i think we're gonna stick with zyzq's bars. Gringo 00:52, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you even watch zyzq vs goh or zyzq vs babe? THOSE ARE ZYZQ'S BARS YOU DAFT CUNT. For fucks sake would you actually make a POINT for once in your life instead of ignoring obs and ranting loljake lolvR. It's so god damn irritating--TahiriVeila 00:56, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * i was referring to all of your pro suggestions on the entire page. i love that you're in rage mode tho, that usually means we both get a ban soon :D Gringo 00:59, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lololololol yes that's why you put it right under my comments posting THE EXACT bars zyzq played with. And that's why you automatically went to shouting about how i'm bad, vR is bad when neither of those has anything to do with this build. You're just DA BEST pal, completely rational--TahiriVeila 01:03, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

(reset indent, too lazy) wow... jake u always think ur right. lol. now stop bitching. yea u jake. shutup--Bluetapeboy 04:12, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoru?--TahiriVeila 04:18, February 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * the spirit of Christmas future. whoru?--Bluetapeboy 04:19, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * lrn2ply. -- Chaos  -- 14:12, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I must say that Jake is right about the Magebane part... but w/e Tyrael [[Image:Life Sheath.jpg|19px]]  PewPew  19:39, February 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * so true ^.--Bluetapeboy 02:04, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

out of curiosity, why run magebane over cripshot? unless you're keying their monks, you might as well abuse movement control. i'd even venture that movement control is more pressure than ints when you have dshot and savage already. ···  Danny So Cute   03:23, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Depends on what map you're playing. Magebane allows for bigtime midline lineback, plus you can take debil + point blank which is murder on a prot when you're spiking constantly.--TahiriVeila 22:44, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

ug
i fail at tempaltes, can someone make it great? i dunno how to--Bluetapeboy 02:06, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Generic criticism of the build that you'll find in these talk pages
Yes, you have a mindblast split caracter. Real clever, cause now you can split with paragons. Only you really can't, because then they will just 3-5 counter split you. How will this build 3-5 split to counter their 3-5 split? a mindblast, a cripshot and a flagger? that will lose pretty much every time to a decent warrior, a cripshot and a flagger. So then you have to fall back when they properly respond to your split, only the chances are is that one or two of your guys will die because of an 8s icy shackels and an undodgable cripshot. So I don't really see what the advantage of running the mindblast over a primal warrior or something is  Jonas  22:35, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh if they split back 3 + 5 you pump at stand while your mind blast ele runs away (with crip shield + rune + featherfoot cripshot lasts like 1 second iirc). Ranger + flagger can't kill a fire ele alone before he'd be able to get to safety and if they split back their war + ranger + flag for a single fire ele you pretty much just secured stand control + boost + game--TahiriVeila 22:41, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Uhhh, the ranger shouldn't split back vs a single mindblast, just the warrior has to do that. And it isn't like the warrior has to go out of his way to kill your mindblast because if the flagger off defending base vs the mindblast, a warrior has to go back and run flag anyway. So the only thing that has to happen is the rit has to snare the ele once (good luck removing icy shackels with featherfoot grace), then use armor of mist and cut off the ele's escape route. Then the warrior catches up with the ele and starts pounding on it, and the rit keeps snaring the ele until it dies. Or, if you split a rit to heal the mindblast, what is to stop them from spliting their ranger and pushing your shit in on split? I don't really see what I'm missing here [[File:JonasGWWAvatar.jpg]] Jonas  01:11, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem to be assuming that your ele is absolutely terrible. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 01:13, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, so you basically want them to split their flagger back to deal with your ele? But your ele basically can't engauge the NPC's in the enemy's base or he will get snared, collapsed on and die. Ok. Assuming they're not idiots and they don't want to trade their flagger for a fire ele who isn't even doing anything, then they will countersplit a 1 man split with a 3 man split. You counter this with...what? You can't even mirror split them because you don't have a second warrior to split off, so are you splitting off your ranger and flagger to defend while you put your mindblast back at stand? I guess that would work, assuming that you don't care about your outer NPC's dying, or about getting a flag out on maps that aren't uncharted isle [[File:JonasGWWAvatar.jpg]] Jonas  02:10, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * so no one should ever split eles because theyll always get snared and collapsed on. got it. Gringo 02:16, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or you can just take one thing that I was suggesting out of context and entirely ignore the rest of my fairly coherent argument [[File:JonasGWWAvatar.jpg]] Jonas  02:43, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * i dont care what the rest of your argument is. you're saying that having eles split is useless because theyll be snared and collapsed on. watch ZYZQ run this on corrupted, they'll show you how to split with it. you can keep your vote the same, it doesnt matter to me, but the reasoning behind it is just faulty. Gringo 02:47, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

this is a rawr build. it was designed to get and prevent lord-damage. if you are splitting offensively for reasons other than killing the guard, you are doing it wrong. 68.35.89.66 06:20, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure i saw several guilds run this today.. -- Steamy .. x 22:45, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

as per DirT. --Frosty  22:23, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

re: stuff
You're right about DirT running brace, although I'd still prefer to list it as a variant since I haven't seen anyone in America drop the second upkeep anthem for it. However, I've never heard of anyone running majors to hit 12 leadership recently, especially on these non-energy demanding bars. Do you actually have a reference for this? --Lemming 00:53, June 3, 2010 (UTC) no, that brings the % up to 50, which is 49.9999% behind your claim. stop spewing wrong information. if you are clueless, shut the fuck up, don't make bullshit up. - Auron 07:26, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest i only just noticed i reverted para attribs, i mostly just saw you took the major off the warrior which is wrong. I'll update the para attribs-- Steamy .. x 01:10, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Running a major on a warrior is correct? I was not appraised of this. --Lemming 01:15, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well warriors are obviously a big target for weakness and hammer warriors tend to run sentinels i herd so you dont want -20 armor from weakness taking you below the requirement. Also breakpoint for enraging is 14 strength.-- Steamy .. x 01:24, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I made a typo when I edited it. Should have been 12+1+1 Strength and 12+1 Hammer. --Lemming 01:25, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * running a major to hit Enraging Breakpoint is what 99.9999% of all hammer warriors do, i dunno where you've been for the past 5 years. and brace yourself is fantastic, because usually youll split flagger back first, then either ranger or prot (ranger for 1 person, prot for more), and keeping your heal monk on his feet when he's solo monking is priceless, and removing his diversion/shame with empathic. Gringo 01:26, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13 weapon mastery is better. I dunno where you're getting your statistic from.
 * BTW, I'd drop the rip before I'd drop the second anthem. --Lemming 01:35, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * i ran the command para all week and my anthem only drops with either i die or the other para walks out of my earshot (and even then envy and gfte do a mighty fine jorb). Gringo 01:40, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * (to unsigned comment) As saint said, no hammer warrior runs anything but 14-14 unless theyre using some random shit like enraged smash or forceful blow.-- Steamy .. x 01:43, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only hammer war I can think worthy of mentioning (ETERNAL!) runs 14 str 13 hammer. Everybody else in this game can no longer play hammer and should not be consulted on such matters. --Crow 01:54, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I did a bit of asking around for you.
 * Phil runs minor most of the time
 * Joe runs minor
 * Jatt runs minor
 * Jaden runs minor
 * Gai runs minor
 * Bankai runs major
 * And most importantly, I, the great Lemstar The Lem, run a minor rune when I beast people on hammer warrior <--crow did that
 * Hardly the "99.9999%" that you were describing. --Lemming 02:04, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * so if i name 4 ppl that run majors do i win the argument or what? Gringo 02:14, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lem named the only people worth naming Saint. --Crow 02:19, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol'd-- Steamy .. x 02:20, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm certain that there's at least a couple of relevant euro players who run a major, but I neither believe that it is the majority preference or that it's superior to running a minor.
 * Gus did some math on the issue - the minor will never increase your damage per hit by more than 2. It averages out to about 1.6 damage per hit for most armor values between 70 and 100. In light of how risky it is to play with DPed warriors, I don't understand how anyone can advocate running a major. --Lemming 02:29, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * @crow, because jatt is so active and ppl like sheepy/ronaldo dont matter? D: @lemming, see thats something i can get behind, some numbers rather then names. +1 mastery sure doesn't seem like it'd only do 2 more dps, because +3 feels like a shitload more then +6 (i know it probably scales, just saying). ima go changes it. Gringo 03:40, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * "so if i name 4 ppl that run majors do i win the argument or what?"
 * so many more people run major then minors auron, shut the fuck up nigger. Gringo 15:56, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Archive?
Yeah, there have been meta shifts, but I don't feel like it has disappeared entirely. In fact, I see it fairly regularly on split maps, with fair results as well, though I've seen more Shield of Deflection P/Mo than Empathetic Removal. I'm probably missing the grand scheme or somesuch, but I just wanted to input that it still sees play (and wins). EisenhowerSmash! 21:22, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That omegaspike is basically a completely different build. --Lemming 09:23, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw this build, each bar the very likeness of this page, used just the other day on Burning. I'm really talking about this build. EisenhowerSmash! 22:32, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who ran it? I definitely haven't seen it enough to think that it merits going back into meta, but I haven't been obsing as much as I used to.--Lemming 22:51, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * DirT. I believe they were #26 at the time, but I wish I could remember their opponent. It wasn't a smurf battle though. I wouldn't call it meta to any degree; I'm just saying I've seen it get wins lately on Wurms and Burning. EisenhowerSmash! 23:18, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * DirT runs some version of this build no matter what the meta is, though. --Lemming 23:33, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Thanks, that's actually really helpful to know. EisenhowerSmash! 23:45, August 25, 2010 (UTC)