Archive talk:Me/E Fast Cast Water

Oh, hai, feedback pl0x / Fros  T  alk  \ 07:15, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Is fast casting really needed on 1 sec spells? -- Sazzy  07:22, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * /agree. Big waste of primary profession. --Guild of Deals * Wah Wah  Wah! * 07:34, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

You got nothing at all that justifies changing to mesmer primary instead of elementalist; the decreased casting time has only a slight effect and you got shorter lasting snares as well as no energy storage. God box    07:57, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah this is a pretty horrible bar, horrible idea behind the bar as well.I Heal If U Shutup 15:12, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * But top guilds run it!!1!1 Fusion 15:55, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * He got you there. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 15:56, 28 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Stop talking, you're dumb. &mdash;  Skakid  16:02, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

This gets around the big problem of being a water ele: getting pblocked. &mdash;  Skakid  16:02, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

Mesmer primary on this build = FAIL Douche Bag 10:02, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Well lets step back and look at this, except for the ability to add runes to Water and Fire magic, what does an Ele snarer have over this except slightly longer lasting snares, nothing. It's not fail, but it's certainly workable. / Fros  T  alk  \ 11:31, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

Bring a 40/40 water magic set is gud enough imo--R ELYK   ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ  03:49, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Not getting your whole bar pblocked is pretty important. Not to mention that FC and 40/40 Glowing Ice will drastically reduce the possibility of it getting dshotted, which means you shouldn't have an energy problem.[[Image:Blessed Light.jpg|User:ISnowBunnyI|20px]]Snow Bunny  13:20, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Indeed, Dom Mesmers own Water Eles. This character gets around that problem. Zuranthium 14:35, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

Only reason not to run this over a Standard ele is if you need a rend or hard rez. Anybody currently playing knows why Fast Cast>Energy Storage in this pblock meta. Unrelated, bring back hex eater plz, thx.Aznhalf 16:31, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
 * And, although Euros don't seem to understand, Water Trident > Icy Shackles. Zuranthium 02:48, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
 * AoS poops on trident. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 17:42, 3 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Eh, it really only hurts for flagger pushes. Trident is going to KD almost all of the time when it's not just 1 target that is being focused on. And, in that same vein, good hex removal poops on Shackles. Trident is better on the whole if used correctly. The thing is, it takes a lot of effort and some skill to get the most out of Trident. Shackles is way more simplistic and doesn't require much effort. Zuranthium 23:34, 3 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I was being somewhat sarcastic, zur. i agree with you. the aos argument is largely theorycraft. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 00:44, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Fuck theorycrafting. Actually Trident isn't even that bad in flagger pushes if you have rend, just rend his aura and ups flagger can't move. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  09:40, 8 December 2008 (EST)

Shard Storm
I say we main bar it, imo it's much better than freezing gust, because if you blurred a war who is for some reason near his monks or other chars you want to snare, then gust is useless, shard however, isn't. -- Crow is  PhatNThat  12:12, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Mirror of Ice
Is it buffed enough to be an alternate for this build? Karate Jesus 16:27, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You need a snare Hex, which is the Elite. It wouldn't work well in this build, tbh. ــмıкε  нaшк  19:14, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Moi is still a horrible elite.  Frosty  No U!  19:21, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
 * MoI is fuckin bad.  19:23, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Says the guy who made a spike build with it... It could work in a few situations but you would need to sacrifice some skill then since having only snare is quite meh. God  box    12:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hey, I was bored and felt like observing some HA matches. XD ــмıкε  нaшк  17:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * This works well in HA matches, very well for balance spikes.(Callistotyler 04:56, 22 August 2008 (EDT))
 * It only works when you take multiple copies of it, in kappaspike. In balance you would prefer good elites(shackles). —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  05:37, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I've observed mesmers a 5 mesmer (+ 3 monk) team using MoI, Freezing Gust, and Rust in GvG and they destroyed a balanced build (both guilds were ranked fairly high - one was 66), so I would say the new version of MoI has some utility. --False Prophet 14:10, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
 * It's kappa spike and it's a completely different build used in a completely different way. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 14:34, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Updated for Sept. 10
Changed since Glowing Ice nerf. 15:29, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I saw someone running Ether Phantom + Drain for Energy Management. Lanky 17:28, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't both spells cost 5, and give you back 10 energy at best? Hardly energy management when it gives back the same amount you just spent.  76.89.91.45 19:48, 11 September 2008 (EDT)


 * Water Trident instead of Shackles, easy :/ Massive  [[Image:Image-Massive Sig.jpg|19px]] 09:11, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I wanted to say that when I tagged it, but I thought some people would be all "lrn2manage energy plsthx" so I just left it as either for now. Also, Power Drain is pretty iffy, you are spending most of your time watching their frontline, it's a big ask to switch to mid and backline to get the interrupt for energy management. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 09:24, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * You will still be snaring midline (other mesmers) -- Frosty [[Image:SnowmanF.jpg|19px]] 09:40, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * You're not really in a position to be tabbing around to find good interrupts with only one on your bar. Don't use strawman arguments, yes, during a push or a pain train you will be snaring midline, but most of the time water eles are played in a fairly euro manner. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 09:50, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * For clarification, Me/Es exist because people are bad and bad people won't be able to use Pdrain to maintain energy anyway. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 10:29, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * run 2 me/es, they camp one opposing war each and pdrain their conjure. problem solved. -- Image:Tab  Piplup  .jpg  10:31, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * take three if they use tripwarr. God  box    10:33, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If you Pdrain their Conjure what on earth enchantment will you drain! - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 10:34, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Veil/Spotless when they try to remove your hexes! -- Image:Tab  Piplup  .jpg  10:35, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Actually, why the fuck does this have FGust? - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 10:36, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Pdrain sucks. It's godly e-mangment yes, but you won't be watching midline for interupts. Snaring midline isn't really about watching them, it's more about following your warriors and looking at bad positioning(everyone should do that tbh). Pdrain might work if people were still running l-orb, diversion, aegis and alot more 2 sec spells. Too bad they don't. WA is still best energy managment, if it gets stripped or not. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  05:36, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

vett tbh -- Frosty  15:30, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

wow....
I've seen templates exactly like this with a generic idea spread out, get deleted because and i quote, "We do not need templates, we need builds." so how this got voted in baffles me.--72.189.85.47 20:39, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

Welcome to PvXwiki, the land of double standards. Or at least the wiki of. 71.88.205.1 22:39, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Truer words were never spoken.--72.189.85.47 09:19, 15 September 2008 (EDT)


 * We're human, we make mistakes and have opposing views of things. Shut the fuck up if you're not going to try and help.  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 16:04, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Isnt there some kind of no personal attack rule out there--141.151.163.98 16:22, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * "Shut the fuck up" isn't a personal attack, it's advise. And good advise at that. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   16:26, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * No, sounds like a pretty much like an attack. Strong language is reserved for anger. Are you angry?-- Ikimono The Ursan Monk [[Image:Paragon-icon-small.png]] 00:08, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

Ikimono stop trying to cause an argument. and stfu is not a personal attack. -- 00:59, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Truer words were never spoken ^ -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 02:12, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Strong language such as "stfu" causes more arguments.Pika Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 04:03, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Niggerdicks. --71.229 04:18, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Lol,niggers.  Mr.  Big  04:19, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If fuck is strong language, ups -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 05:17, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * ups is a strong word -- Image:Tab  Piplup  .jpg  05:18, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Denial is a first step to winning an argument in an unreasonable way.Pika Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 12:04, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

PvXwiki:STFU|STFU God  box    14:39, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Nobudy takes res sig on a snare mes. Take water attunement + drain/waste not want not + insp hex. Drain+wnwn is overkill and water attunement(even with all the strips) is good. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  06:39, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Actually they sorta do. Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:07, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Icy shackles is LOL to me. 90% IMS decrease isn't worth my elite slot. Freezing gust does the same job of snaring just fine and even adds damage whereas Icy shackles does not. --Ulterion 21:44, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Icy was great when everyone ran dervs. --F rosty 21:45, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Wars still use conjures--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  22:07, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Meteor
whats up with that? -- Dr ah   00:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * vandalism. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 00:47, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * admin frosty to the rescue!!! 04:13, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

lol
Earthen shackles, winter's embrace, elemental flame. All viable in this build now :/ <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">22:44, 6 August 2009
 * Kay, so you have a fuckton of antimelee and one (1) attack skill. Why is this vetted Great?   I just don't understand... Ben Tbh 00:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * cause you have a fuckton of antimelee--Relyk 06:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Because snare's aren't just defensive; in the right hands they makes a warrior's job so much easier(which means, snare the fuck out of their monks and bstrike+rape them). —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  09:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Snares stop enemy melee from hitting you, they let your melee hit your enemies, and they can hold people in AoE like SH. Also in hex builds water snares will help clog up hex removals. Plus you're doing some damage. 82.3.235.183 10:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Winter's Embrace > Shard Storm tbh. Lower energy cost, slightly higher recharge time, damage while moving. Or combine the two since you don't really need the Res Sig. When one runs out, toss on the other, kite and whack them with Water Trident. Works wonders against Sins, Dervs and Warriors. Also a very viable build on either Luxon or Kurzick side in Fort Aspenwood CM. Personally, I dropped Shard Storm in favor of Winter's Embrace and use Revealed Hex (anti-degen/VoR) or Ether Feast (red bar goes up) in the Res Sig slot. Set sune  14:20, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Archive
Perhaps. Either that or vote wipe. Is never used anymore and since GW is full of dual rangers and spikes, having MoI on the bar for extra damage (and having better e management) means that this is inferior. --Crow 19:31, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Tbh, I'll just remove the GvG tag. It would still be effective in RA (lolRA). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:13, 23 November 2009

I have seen extend conditions being used here and there, so you basically just steam -> extend and get all the paras/rangers? Also the versions I have seen run have always had WNWN. --<font color="Black">Frosty  22:55, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * i've also seen some energy drain and a fucking gay bsurge fast cast build. the elite is really flexible -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 23:04, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fast Cast Perma-Blind takes the lame cake. --BlazingBurdy 04:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

where
are the energies? not hard to rupt Drain, 2s cast even with FC its like 1.2 or smth. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:58, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty much nobody ran a res on this, and WNWN is mostly ran in that place (unless with E-Drain). --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 13:37, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoever edited the page, vandalism is not appreciated here, if you do this again steps will be taken <font color="Black" face="Comic Sans" size="3">Tyrael [[Image:Life Sheath.jpg|19px]] <font color="Red"> Meow  13:58, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Add Lyssa's Aura for lolenergy while spamming snares. (in the optional slot of course)
 * Why is WNWN preferred to PDrain so much? It gives so much less energy. Widow maker 19:59, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Simplicity of use. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 20:14, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess, given monks at least in HA tend not to wand when not casting, but for 1/2 the energy gain I'm not sure it's worth it... you could even wait a whole 20 seconds before using PDrain and get as much energy as using WNWN on recharge. OK you might miss, but you might miss WNWN and again, even if you miss 1/2 you're still doing no worse... Ah well. Widow maker 19:37, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Freezing gust?
take freezing gust for winters embrace?it has nice spikepower with shard storm and much more snare power.Sersch 17:10, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It used to be on there, but WE is just better. Feel free to add it to the variants, though. I see no reason for it not to be there. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">17:22, 10 February 2010


 * Added to variants. -- SteamyIgloo! Steamy's Igloo.gif 01:24, April 11, 2010 (UTC)