Build talk:Team - UW 600 Duo

Much more filled out now. :D Innoruuk 02:01, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Awesome. I'll do more when I get a second. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington !!   on 03:32, April 24 2012 (UTC)


 * 1.Sry but i don't see how those mesmers should work probably, since they have to stay in cast range most of the time and may break aggro. 2.Wastrel's skills? Foes like aatxe still use attack skills right? It would take ours to kill them with just Shatter Delusions (especially since it is adjacent AoE). 3.The signet mesmers dmg output is a joke compared to SS. 4. SS deals massive damage when cast on serveral foes and don't have to stay in enemys range...mesmers only make sense as long as you can quickly spike the mob or bring Wastrel's Demise (what you can't here, because atleast the melee foes will still use skills). So mesmer bars seems inferior to SS and also look kind of gimped. Illoyon 06:52, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * As long as the mesmer can multi-task and keep the enemy's energy drained, wastrels spam is actually faster than SS. I think illusion is quite nice as well, I have to say I never had much luck with Keystone.  One thing I tend to forget about mesmers is that fast casting reduces skill recharge time.  And even when mesmers are slower with certain mobs, they excel in other areas. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington !!   on 07:13, April 24 2012 (UTC)
 * And to address your other concern, they work a lot better in NM for me, although they work in HM too but with smaller sized groups. Also, I think Innoruuk is suggesting that the tank can essentially block foes to keep them clumped even in HM. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington !!   on 07:18, April 24 2012 (UTC)
 * Aatxes can't use any skills because of Sympatethic and Ancenstor's Visage.It leaves them without either energy or adrenaline to spam any skills.So WW does its full damage without question and,if used properly,it is faster than SS,but mostly in HM,where hexes last only half their normal duration(WW lasts for 3 secs,half means 1.5),which leads to 100 damage every 1.5 seconds only from WW.Staying in cast range isn't a problem with a good tank.Brave Lord 16:49, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

stop the rc spam
For real... --  Sh @ dow / /  Haze  08:07, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * haha, they are just minor edits, you can filter them out right? They are safer than giant edits in the case of a system failure. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington !!   on 08:11, April 24 2012 (UTC)
 * Or keep a text file as you work. I write entire builds in a single edit-- Relyk 08:28, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Damn, I'm not comfortable enough with pvx code to do that. Sounds like a pain in the ass though.  I guess if I really wanted to I could try to tie in a preview function with a text editor.  Yea yea I'll keep 'em down. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington !!   on 08:36, April 24 2012 (UTC)
 * well, I can filter out minor edits. But a lot of people use the minor edit at talks too, and that I do not like to filter out --  Sh @ dow / /  Haze  09:22, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ok, I usually don't do that but figured what the hell this time. Will try to reduce it. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington !!   on 09:33, April 24 2012 (UTC)
 * appreciate it --  Sh @ dow / /  Haze  09:52, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Echo Variant
That I posted is actually pretty strong, unfortunately relyk isn't used to 600ing since it's been so long and I'm just plain bad at it so we died a ton. 19:49, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

So...
Testing and vetting phase yet? Innoruuk 21:09, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. Relyk put up a "cleanup" tag on the page, so maybe the format needs to be looked at, although I think it is pretty well organized atm. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington !!   on 21:17, April 24 2012 (UTC)
 * It's been removed if it was up before. Innoruuk 22:50, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

This makes me harder better faster stronger
I tested it out just now and I have to say this team setup is awesome. I love that I can swipe the dust off my 600monk and let him do something again! Them 22:53, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Lol, a little more tact please... but thank you and thanks to the orginal 600/ss setup. Innoruuk 23:11, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This is the internet! [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 23:16, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm more aware of that than you believe me XD A few key strokes and I could hack your computer simply by getting your IP address from your profile. You can say anything on the internet, but come on, that's a little crude. Innoruuk 23:19, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You wish you could hack my computer with a few keystrokes. Only way to gain access is through a RAT and if you had the skill to program one then you wouldn't be shitting around on pvx as you'd know how to break the fuck out of guild wars. Still though, this is PVX. Home of the crude and bleak! [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 23:23, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * We got ourselves a badass over here. Wylin Out 23:27, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Huw Huw Huw Huw Them 23:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope, I couldn't make a RAT if I wanted to either. I just know that hacking isn't mashing your fist into your keyboard for 10 seconds. See This [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 23:33, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That was glorious. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 23:36, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I dunno man... that looks like major hacking skills to me. Them 23:35, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No tact required, but since you want to make it a point to say this is crude I gave it new and improved title. Them 23:29, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

If you think RAT(s) are the only thing that can access your computer you're wrong. If you have a connection to the internet, anyone with two years of C++ programming can find you and analyze your security for weaknesses. And besides that, it's true, good hackers have their software prearmed. I only have to isolate your IP and type literally three strokes of command code and I could probably do some serious damage. You can be crude on pvx, just leave the inuendos out of it. I get enough of those at work every day. Innoruuk 23:55, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but I'm calling your bluff. Come at me bro. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 00:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Innoruuk makes my wheels spin, blanches my vegetables, and soothes my sunburn with milky smoothness.-- Relyk 00:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Relyk, just ignore the fact that C++ has nothing to do with networking or security and is purely a programming language. Btw Innoruk I took 3 years of computer science and I know how to make your heart stop. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 00:17, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I know people that can neurokinetically control their heart rate, from stop to 200 bpm. Big whoop...making a heart stop can be done with anything from an air enbylysm to a few well placed punches to arsenic to a very interesting use of gold flakes. I could also have you run through a blue light field and induce a transverse pulsing magnetic field through you causing your liver to explode, but who the fuck cares? And back to the security deal, programming is programming. Security is just another language, encrypted or not it's breakable if you have a clue about language translation, a necessary skill they teach you sophomore year at any decent software engineering school. Innoruuk 01:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You're only making yourself look worse dude. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 01:49, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't need you to help me make me look bad :) Innoruuk 01:56, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Hey...
Since relyk and two others are here, can we just rate this puppy two more 5-5s so we can put the good ol' "Great" tag back up? Innoruuk 02:06, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Why did you remove the tag? This page needs to follow PvX:FORMAT, it's nit a guide.-- Relyk 03:09, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you summarize the problem? I haven't run into this with my other "universalish" builds, which I don't believe follow a standard format either. Smitysmitehex.png Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 03:30, April 25 2012 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? What do I have to summarize? I don't care if some other build didn't follow proper format. The build page needs to roughly follow format and right now it doesn't even come close.-- Relyk 04:36, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? "Doesn't even come close" doesn't seem accurate.  Summarize means just highlight what is wrong or what needs to change, because I am not seeing it. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 05:46, April 25 2012 (UTC)

smite
Good/Possible? If so, can somebody add a decent smite variant? <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 16:18, April 25 2012 (UTC)
 * Slow and ineffective. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 17:55, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

sin tank
why removed? <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 04:19, May 7 2012 (UTC)
 * it's bad?-- Relyk 04:28, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't used it, but I'm sure Innoruuk could defend it. He went pretty in depth into the usage on my talk page User_talk:Smity_Smitington/Archive_3. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 04:41, May 7 2012 (UTC)
 * You can kill all three nightmare spawns in one SB, just not recommended cause of randomness. You have arcane echo to compensate otherwise. I'm not sure why innoruuk likes shroud of distress, not having anti-interrupt is very unreliable and makes no sense when you have MoR available. For the rest, any viable nuking setup works fine, but famine was totally unnecessary when using illusion. wastrel spam is pretty shitty for killing skellys, main reason we switched to illusion.-- Relyk 05:03, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * They can be a pain to ball sometimes, I always bring empathy with dom mesmer Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 05:10, May 7 2012 (UTC)
 * The Shroud pretty much keeps you from being interrupted. As per killing skeles with wastrel's, it's not hard. You put WW on OTHER enemies. Famine just makes the kills faster, go with whatever bar you want though. I can get all 4 areas cleared with UWG and Wrathful Spirits in about an hour and 10 minutes. The monk tank is superior, but less competent people own viable monks, let's be honest. And, the sin tank works just as easily as the others when used in good hands. Also, if you need to kill a lone skeleton, hello, Shatter Delusions? Also, skeletons only have 10 energy, so Famine should be wiping them out if you are balling with any competency. Simply walk a mob backwards into them. Innoruuk 01:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's retarded innoruuk. It's less effective in the other builds and there is no point in keeping inferior builds. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 02:00, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Quests are actually easier/more possible with a sin. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 02:27, May 11 2012 (UTC)

They, you only find it retarded because you can't use it correctly. It's just as stable as the Monk Build and is actually even more effective for Spider runs. Also, who nixed the ss nuker? It's still pretty quick, faster than illusions. Innoruuk 02:32, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * SS is NOT faster than illusion, this build is for farming underworld, not spider runs, and how is assassin more effective? Your enchantments are %30 shorter and you don't have reliable interupt prevention. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 02:35, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * They, your vote before you got butt hurt was something to the extent of "Wow, this is hard lol, I am so new to this". Please stop acting like an authority here because you are not. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 02:38, May 11 2012 (UTC)
 * And we were never "warned". Relyk vaguely mentioned that "Something was wrong", but as like his usual self, as soon as someone asked him to step up to the plate and defend/describe his assertions, he coward away. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 02:42, May 11 2012 (UTC)

drama
Look, we can settle this like men. So, I will lay out some points, and we can discuss them from there.
 * Firstly, I wouldn't deem the build a guide. There are two base bars shown here (in the tanking overview section, and the nuking overview section).  The page simply shows the base bars, and then shows how to fill in the optionals to cater to play styles and experience (which is actually important, you aren't always going to get the best tank, so you need a build which will cope with that, to be most effective in that situation).
 * Secondly, and I just hinted at this, this isn't about "which bar is superior". Each bar has unique pros and cons, and fits in to how you decide to play, and the experience level of a given team mate.  The sin bar may have some visible weaknesses compared to the monk bar, but there are actually things it can do which the monk can not (like certain quests).  If you guys would listen to Innoruuk, maybe you would learn something and realize that the sin is a stable tank given the correct usage.  When it comes to nuking, they are all great options and very close in speed.  The fact is, nuking speed isn't what slows this build down, it is tanking speed.  The various nukers accommodate the varying experience levels you might encounter with your tank.  Tanking this is HARD shit, not everybody is going to be perfect at it, and when they are not, choosing a potentially more powerful nuker (like the wastrels spammer), would actually be a LESS effective choice.  With SS, One thing is has over the other builds is the ability to plant, and gtfo. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 03:16, May 11 2012 (UTC)
 * That's the definition of a guide. The page basically goes "You need a tank, here's some of our recommended tank builds. You also need some damage, here's 5 completely different bars you can take for that",so how can you judge this "2 man" "build" when there's around 10 completely different combinations of "2 man".
 * Also the definition of a guide....See the last part of the above point.
 * Finally, my views of if this is a build or a guide aside, the layout of the page leads to confusion, I saw the title as "2 Man tank and spank", but a glance at the Table of Contents suggested to me that this was a 7 mean team build (given that there's 7 bars listed in seemingly equal importance) arrange your headings better so your tank "suggestions" are under one "tank" heading (protip:use sub headings), and do the same for the "spank". <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  13:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That is a possibility. Honestly, I used sub-headings the sub-sub-headings the first time, and Didn't like its appearance.  I will change to them though, but am holding off because there is a debate about removing 75% of the material on the page. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 15:14, May 11 2012 (UTC)
 * Page still looks like shit. Sin bar is inferior, there is zero benefit over a monk. The Famine bar is only useful for spider runs which as I said isn't the main goal of this build, and the SS bar is slow compared to the illusion bar. Storing suboptimal builds just so you can have a guide is dumb. Just turn this page into a guide and link to it on an OPTIMAL build page. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 15:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Done and done. We can now go on with our lives and hold hands and stuff. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!  on 15:51, May 11 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, b-b-but it's not like I like you or anything! Okay?!? [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 16:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course not. I want nothing more than to continue in a hating relationship. Smitysmitehex.png <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">Smity Smitington <font color=black face="Lucida Blackletter">!!   on 16:59, May 11 2012 (UTC)

Alternative
Can tank entire rooms, but I'm not sure how wastrel's spam compares to illu for speed. AegisDok 09:06, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ...How are you going to tank skeletons? [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 09:14, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 200~hp is enough to work with.AegisDok 09:16, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * + pull them separately when you can and obstruct bone spike and flurry.AegisDok 09:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's going to be really awkward-- Relyk 09:31, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * CoP->Empathy and you should be fine. Also, why the fuck does pvx have so many problems with safari? Falrach 10:27, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's recent, used to be able to post just fine on my ipod. Now the navbar is at the bottom of the page. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 16:46, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Plenty of places to use in both chamber and wastes, especially since you have more of the map to work with since you can aggro more. AegisDok 18:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You can pull all the skeletons you want with 600 and won't degen to death from Bleeding. Other than that, using ~180 monk would be better for pulling entire groups, especially smites.-- Relyk 19:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Bleeding has never been a problem with 16 divine and SH's heal. I wouldn't really say the skeles slow you down much.  In chamber for example, I generally just pull the first one and then tank the rest of the area behind the stairs which obstructs the second.AegisDok 19:16, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

2020
Does this still work and is it worth keeping it in the active content namespaces? --Krschkr (talk) 13:37, 5 July 2020 (UTC)