Archive talk:Team - Sabway/Archive 2

Discussion
I want to be the SS necro in this, should the bar be changed at all and what hero should I take instead? Thanks in advance.-- Liger414 talk  08:51, 30 October 2008 (EDT)


 * A human SS can do so much more than this. Let me give you an example bar...


 * Smack a guy in the middle of a mob with MoP + Ebon Assassin, spam GDW on your physicals, use FH on anything about to die, spread weakness and SS, drop rigor on whatever's being annoying with blocks.
 * Alternatively, you could go /Mo for Aegis (watch your status bar so it doesn't overlap too much with the hero) or /P for Fall Back (for those times between mobs when you've absolutely nothing to do but run).
 * Be sure you're carrying a spear with a non-elemental head. The damage from extra spearchucks from barbs and MoP is amazing.
 * Normally I would recommend a splinter support rit, but you've already got most of those skills in here once.
 * -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 09:02, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Thanks, does this mean I should take a physical hero instead?--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] Liger414 talk  09:04, 30 October 2008 (EDT)


 * Yes. -- ›[[Image:Many srs beans.png|Srs Bean Mafia.]] Srs Beans R Srs  15:49, 30 October 2008 (EDT)


 * If you're doing that, barbs over Rigor. Definitely. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 18:49, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Thanks foor the help. I appreciate it.--[[Image:User-Liger414 Air of Enchantment.jpg|19px]] Liger414 talk  11:12, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

I don't know where write it, so I did it here. Please repair the template code from Jagged MM.

Better Condition Removal
For my MM hero, instead of bringing Protective Spirit, I have him bring Infuse Condition. Still using Foul Feast, when my MM removes the condition, gets the heal and energy, but doesn't receive the condition, instead it is sent directly to the closest minion. Works like a charm ^^
 * ... but you lose prot spirit. [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]McTai  12:00, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Empathic Removal, the elite is interchangeable-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 22:17, 4 November 2008 (EST)


 * No. Jagged is amazing on bomber heroes. Bring a friend and have him bring an RC monk, and you're done worrying about condition removal - everything goes on the MM, which even heroes can RC easily. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 22:19, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * I use ER in hex and condition heavy areas, jagged is rly only for extended battles. not everyone has a friend with an rc monk btw-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 11:19, 25 November 2008 (EST)


 * Empathic is good against hexes, bad against conditions. Jagged is to make minions explode better and last longer between battles, not for long battles. Ogden is everyone's friend. If your friends can't run a RC hero, get better friends. :/ -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 13:02, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Replace MM?
Would replacing the mm with a searing flames ele hero be good?
 * no, mms provide body blocking and energy source for ur other heroes. [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  20:13, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * No, because SF is bad. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 22:11, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * Unless you got lots of heros and a paragon spamming aria of zeal and bip-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 22:16, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * yeah the article now recommends dropping the MM where there are no corpses, but wouldn't that kind of defeat the object of the build? Without minions dying all over the place you don't need everybody to have Soul Reaping.  The healer in particular may as well be a Mo or Rt primary then.  If there are no corpses, take a different team.

SR works from mobs dying also, which is a key point in the build. If shit's not dying, urdoinitrong. Also, sign your comments with four Tildes (~). Morkai 08:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
 * U can always change the mm's build to nukes with icy bile, putrid bile, and stuff and bring more prot or support-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 11:16, 25 November 2008 (EST)

No, don't replace MM with SF ele. You need minions for tanking and energy (esp with jagged bones). If you really want Searing Flames, I have had good success with SS+ weaken armor Necro + MM + 2 x N/E nuker team build, and also where one N/E is replaced by a N/Mo ZB protector with +20 enchanting weapon. Seems to work better for me than sabway. Normal eles could work too, but they tend to run out of gas... Been using stuff like that back when Jagged Bones had a 5 sec recharge and soul reaping was not nerfed. Ah, those were the days... ;) Targetdrone

Rotting Flesh?
Rotting Flesh? I already see bleeding and poison. Of course, it would have to be micro'ed. Ayanamij 10:41, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Another thought (sorry for all the edits) - what about Dwayna's Sorrow? Ayanamij 10:45, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Henchmen
What are good henchmen choices to go along with this build? There used to be a section on that in the article, but it looks like it was removed64.180.163.201 17:33, 25 November 2008 (EST)
 * It depends on your profession, but in EotN I'd say Zho (for Interrupts), Lina (for Prot), Devona (for KD), and either Herta (good ele damage + wards) or Talon (another non-squishy). Follow a similar style for other campaigns as best you can. - Mc Tai [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image_3.png]] 17:37, 25 November 2008  
 * I usually bring 2 wars to get more out of barbs and mop, but always bring atleast one monk and war-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 11:37, 26 November 2008 (EST)

That would ultimately depend on your own profession. Since I'm a tank and greedy for the agro, I bring an additional monk 2 nukers and ranger. But this build is such as well-oiled machine, it doesn't matter too much what you bring. But if you're vanquishing, bring a guildie with the same team build. You'll dominate easily every time. --Nuclearslug 07:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Do you NEED henchmen for this? I tried some EoTN places with just me and the three heroes and we died. Maxdog999  01:51, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ofc.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * yes. why would you want to make things harder than they needed to be? One monk hench is usually enough, then the other three can be damage dealers. --Mafaraxas 07:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

This vs. Discord
Which is better? I haven't had a chance to play the Discord Necro team because I have a Paragon and I guess the Discord page recommends against using a Paragon with Discord Necros. My understanding is that the Discord Necro team kills faster? But what are the drawbacks, etc.? Ayanamij 10:22, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * Huge loss of defense and lower attribute spreads, sabway works most anywhere, and it works with h/h as well. discord spam is just a gimmick tbh-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 11:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * Ty for info. Ayanamij 12:33, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * I used to use Sabway on my casters--until I discovered Discordway. Discordway is just so much more effective on a number of levels - kills faster, has more healing, has more minions to body block. On my mesmer, necro, and elementalist, Discordway is the only thing I use. Hope this helps. Ghostwheel 06:34, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * If u did that in HM u hax-- Shadow Relyk [[Image:Relyk srs.gif|19px]] 06:36, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * Only in HM; I've already gotten the Guardian of Cantha title by using Discordway on my Necro, and am now working on Guardian of Elona. Works wonders in HM. Ghostwheel 19:06, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * Discordway and Sabway both have their ups and downs. No one team is better than the other. -- 19:09, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * it also kinda depends what class YOU are playing--ie, necros can be 1 more discord in the "spike", whereas some high-damage AoE build like a critscythe or MS/DB would generally be better supported by the balanced/AoE approach of sabway.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  19:27, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * Eh, when I do Discordway on my Necro, he's usually gets off Assassin's Promise, "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and Assassin Support, waits a few seconds, applies "Finish Him!" and the enemy dies. Sometimes if there's a pause, he also uses Enfeebling blood; but there's not usually enough time to do anything else before the monster dies. Since other classes don't have the energy, Sabway would probably be better for paras/rangers/warriors, etc. Ghostwheel 19:46, 27 November 2008 (EST)


 * Discordway is superior in most cases, especially if you are a necro or other caster. Of course there will be cases when sabway will out-perform discordway, but I can't really think of any such situation off the top of my head.  I've heard it's possible to get all 3 vanq titles using discordway, which sounds about right.  Discordway is way faster and is far more flexible.  You can run 2 MMs or 2 healers in areas with less bodies.  Tbh, the choice is pretty clear.  The only downside of discordway is that you pretty much need to be paying attention.  You need to call/force discord.  You need to make sure AP does not get removed (cover hex, fish hex) etc.
 * Also remember that sabway is older than discordway for a reason... smart players phased it out when discord got buffed--User: <font color="Green">Thc 22:47, 30 December 2008 (EST)


 * I prefer sabway in long run because I found that paying attention enough to get Guardian and Vanquisher using discordway just about drove me crazy. But if you can pay attention enough to call out every single enemy for an hour or so for 100+ areas you are leet in my books =P Iroob 04:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thoughts on Player Character?
I am not huge on PvE, but I would like to complete Factions and Eye of the North as quickly as possible (I only beat Classic and Nightfall (for Heroes ...).). Can any of you PvE experts tell me what a good build is for my Paragon? I was gonna run an Imbagon, but someone said it might be too much defense ... and because I wanna blow through the games, perhaps there is a higher DPS option for my Paragon? Sometimes I think I should have made a Necro my main ... -_- Ayanamij 12:33, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * Just run the Imbagon. It'll get you through just fine. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  13:11, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * with three attack skills. -- Mafaraxas ( talk ) 15:00, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * However, if you can't run imbagon (for some reason), stunning strike is nice or CS. Basically, if you're not an imbagon, bring some damage (SoL, Vicious + GtfE, etc) and something the Necros lack, ie hex removal (hexbreaker aria, etc) - <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;border-color:black;background-color:white;padding:0px 1px 0px 1px"><font face="verdana" color="black">Mc <font face="verdana" color="black">Tai [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image_3.png]] <font face="verdana" color="black">15:03, 26 November 2008  


 * If you're doing normal mode, run imbagon and never run more than one healer (and maybe an off-healer if it carries offensive support). -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 21:56, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * tbh if you're playing ANY physical go /W and take "SY!" even partial coverage is effing broken.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  22:57, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * If you can't run an imbagon, all you need to bring is a source of daze. Daze+sabway>PvE.  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 22:59, 26 November 2008 (EST)
 * Stunning Strike is the next best thing-- Shadow Relyk [[Image:Relyk srs.gif|19px]] 00:01, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Sabway
Why do they call it sabway?--‎<font color="Darkgreen">W<tt>i</tt>n  <font color="Lightgreen">T<tt>o</tt>c<tt>k</tt>  undefined 12:59, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * Sab made it =p.--[[Image:Release Enchantmentsliger414bleh.jpg|19px]] Liger414   talk  13:00, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Learn to read.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  13:01, 29 November 2008 (EST)

It originated from a Guru forum posted by Sabway. -hence the name --Nuclearslug 07:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea apparently made from a very good hero PvP person iirc called Sab --Sam6555 00:19, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

question About NF Missions
I hate how you have to bring certain heroes for nf missions. Either way, I still want to get the guardian title. Which hero should i take out for this? --67.80.77.91 20:26, 4 December 2008 (EST)
 * ideally you would go in a party, one person bringing sabway, and another bringing the required hero and something else.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  21:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
 * i usually take out ss necro, although some places you pretty much have to make the best of it.-- Shadow Relyk [[Image:Relyk srs.gif|19px]] 21:34, 4 December 2008 (EST)
 * I usually go without the Xinrae healer as 2 bot monks and a wall of minions can usually mitigate damage  B y  a  k  k  o  [[Image:User_Byakko_Byakkopaw.png|User Page]] 04:31, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Aura of the Lich
What are your takes on it? (that is: is replacing Jagged with AotL a good idea or not?) 83.26.189.78 14:44, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * No. [[Image:Tai_sig_Image_78.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">14:45, 15 December 2008 
 * categorically not.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  16:43, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Jagged Bomber go booom, AotL bomber goes less booom. --SOF 16:48, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * It's not a bad choice, I tried it. I'm not sure how different the damage pans out, but it's easier to maintain 9/10 minions, for whatever that's worth. --Ledger Damayn 00:07, 18 December 2008 (EST)
 * no--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  00:10, 18 December 2008 (EST)
 * AotL is really not that good. Jagged pwns it in PvE.  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 00:11, 18 December 2008 (EST)
 * Final verdict, Jagged on a hero, AoTL if a human player plays the MM (Can any human use Jagged/Nova at all?) --Sam6555 00:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Elementalist Builds?
I tried doing this as an elementalist with cry of pain but the damage was too great for the Xinrae healer to keep up with. What are some good skills that I can use?
 * Are you sure you are running the complete build? Because it shouldn't matter what you are running. For the harder areas, you can choose the more defensive henchmen, that might make the difference. Also, sign please.Masterbow 06:51, 27 December 2008 (EST)
 * I vanquished nearly everything with a variant of the with Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support instead of something (fireball or liquid flame).  For areas that didn't work well for that I used an Ether Renewal + Cry of Pain (+ others depending on area, or an Ether Protter in one case).  Some spots were unusually difficult without two if not three enchantment removals which I put on the necros - Eastern Frontier, for instance, especially if you get 3 or 4 of them in the charging group, but were easy after that.  Only really Majesty's Rest and a few of the missions and locations without corpses have been problematic (and I'm mostly done vanquishing - I plan to run a title boom of 4-5 Guardian and Vanq titles in a day).  --Falseprophet 22:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Ranger build?
Does anyone know of a good ranger build to go with this one? Would be appreciated. 90.149.239.21 13:38, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * There's not really any synergy between any decent ranger builds and the necros. Except maybe when you're anticipating monk boss, you could take BHA so when the minions go to clusterfuck it it drops faster. -- Mafaraxas  ( talk ) 17:40, 29 December 2008 (EST)
 * Run Barrage or Incendiary Arrows, as always, tbh. If you can fit it on your bar, take "Save Yourselves!", too. Even if you can only maintain "SY!" half of the time, it's still worth taking. ــмıкε  нaшк  17:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)

Imbagon
if your playing an imbagon, wouldn't it be better to substitute the xinrae healer for an arcane orders dervish?? I think the imbagon provides enough protection that the N/Rt is not necessary. Am I right, or are my thoughts completely wrong? :P 190.156.234.75 01:16, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Tbh, sabway is basically a "do what works for you" build. Most of it can be customized with relative ease to suit the need and situation of the player. If you find that an arcane orders dervish works better, then by all means use it.  Life [[Image:Aura of Faith.jpg|19px]] 01:29, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * allright, thanks for your advice :) ...will be testing this out in the future 190.156.234.75 01:37, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Iplay a paragon and substituted the MM for an order necro, since SY! and minions both serve as defense. Also eventually substituted the N/Rt healer for a monk hero which I felt was more effecitve without minions.  I've done quite a bit of vanq/dungeons PvE with this setup; I think it's on my build page if you are interested.
 * Also, keep in mind that the build presented on this page is not "the" sabway... the major difference being, splinter weapon should go on the SS necro. It should be pretty obvious to anyone who pays attention to what their heroes do that that's the betteroption.  Check out the link to GWG, which goes into quite a bit more detail--<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  22:35, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * I play an imbagon as well, though I normally run Discord as the necro elites, and I have to say over the months my "sabway" build has been modified many times. Normally, if we have a lot of physical damage in our team, I will substituted the SS for orders, and squeeze barbs in somewhere else.  Life Guardian is right though, Sabway has many variants to accommodate player builds


 * Tbh, sabway is basically a "do what works for you" build. Most of it can be customized with relative ease to suit the need and situation of the player. The point is just to exploit soul reaping with a Jagged Bones MM and multiple necros. -- Mafaraxas  ( talk ) 23:08, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * When I play my Imbagon, I take Aura of the Lich instead of Jagged Bones (still with Animate Bone Minions, though), drop the Prot for Splinter Weapon and Nightmare Weapon/Ancestors' Rage/whatever. I usually take Splinter Weapon on my SS Necro, too, and drop the Healer for an Orders Hero: usually . The funny thing is, AotL is so great that even with a couple other corpse exploitation spells (Well of Power), your MM will always be near his minion cap. ــмıкε  нaшк  23:25, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * Aura of the litch + explosive growth = BOOM. pull a group onto a group of corpses, you now have a second set of corpses :) --72.189.85.14 01:10, 31 December 2008 (EST)

warrior build
whats a good warrior build to go along with this?....currently im using either the d-slash god mode or the hundred blade build
 * Hundred Blades has insane synergy with barbs and Mark of Pain, I'd go with that.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 15:01, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * D-slash + "SY!" will be the easiest, because of massive survivability, but HB is imba damage. --[[Image:Tai_Sig.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">15:31, 14 January 2009 
 * Not forgetting Splinter Weapon, i just went through consulate docks with sabway, me being a warrior using HB, Whirlwind attack, Flail and Sun and moon slash, epic epic damage 86.162.73.235 00:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

attack, defense, or hold back
what should i command them to do i was thinking put both the ss necro and the mm necro to defense and the healing necro to hold back
 * SS on guard, MM probably on passive, and the Healer on Passive.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 14:59, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * Put the MM on Guard as well. It should be using a 40/40 set and wanding effectively triggers the minions to attack. - [[Image:Panic_sig5.png]] 15:47, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * I just leave them all on guard cause wanding owns hm--Relyk 04:20, 12 February 2009 (EST)
 * Shouldn't this be on the main page? After all, it's a Hero build, and this is pretty important info. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 18:38, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

The MM
Has Dwayna's Sorrow at 0 Healing Prayers atm. Wut? Pls2fix. -  <font color="#0d0">Misery <font color="#0e0">Says <font color="#0f0">Moo   10:06, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * sorry, my bad :p --Anonimous. D: 10:07, 18 February 2009 (EST)


 * Oh, lulz. Screen didn't show Healing when I looked, so I edited Prayers out; almost-simultaneous edit ftl. -- ›[[Image:Many srs beans.png|Srs Bean Mafia.]] <font color="#27408B">Srs Beans R Srs  10:09, 18 February 2009 (EST)

now I'm mad
If you want to have PvE meta section please keep this kind of idiots out thanks. --Anonimous. D: 13:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, we can't pre-emptively ban before people do stupid things, but we can revert. Honestly, I read some of the things that you changed and I am staggered that people who care about PvE ever let those edits go through for the page to get into that state. Lawl, Insidious Parasite to counter Eviscerate. - [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#0d0">Misery <font color="#0e0">Says <font color="#0f0">Moo   13:20, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Insidious Parasite is indeed useful against multiple hitters but I cant pre-emtively prevent stupid changes or find them all at once too.
 * Back on topic I dont like how this article looks at the moment still and I would much rather change it to similar version that is onguru at the moment. Some changes include removing Reckless Haste as its defense is redundant as well as attack rate increase for HM mobs who have their attack rate maxed out already, I almost iudenticly copied MM from other articles so it appeals to PvX people but honestly I dont like it very much, hex removal can be left to henchies. I will think of how to improve this or just copy builds from guru. --Anonimous. D: 13:56, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, at the moment you talk about Mark of Pain in variants, but it's not actually in the build, drop RH for it? - [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#0d0">Misery <font color="#0e0">Says <font color="#0f0">Moo   13:57, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I havent even touched build discriptions, usage, variants ect. so all information there is old. --Anonimous. D: 13:59, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You would honestly cry if you saw my current hardmode team :> - [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#0d0">Misery <font color="#0e0">Says <font color="#0f0">Moo   14:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Defy pain frenzy healsig + mending wammos?<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:01, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I cried so much on Hard Mode teams used in this site I no longer have any tears left. --Anonimous. D: 14:03, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Then you need to rub around your eyes to make them look as if you have cried. -- -Ch  ao  s-   14:06, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a 4 necro team with 2 healer henchies and 2 warrior henchies. - [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#0d0">Misery <font color="#0e0">Says <font color="#0f0">Moo   14:06, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I hate warrior henchies had so much trouble with them. --Anonimous. D: 14:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Devona has ludicrous aggro range. - [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#0d0">Misery <font color="#0e0">Says <font color="#0f0">Moo   14:20, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Necros must make way for the ion cannons.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:21, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not true. --Anonimous. D: 14:22, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Learn to use smite heroes, and you blow up every mob you see faster than discordway can.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Learn to use Discord? --Anonimous. D: 14:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I was using discord way before RoJ was buffed?<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:25, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Really? --Anonimous. D: 14:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really?<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * ??? --Anonimous. D: 14:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * ¿¿¿<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:29, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * profit --Anonimous. D: 14:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * loss<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 14:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure is hard to add together two negative magnet sides. -- -Ch  ao  s-   15:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * hamer of dawn goes boom with monks--Relyk 07:34, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Domain of Anguish
I was just wondering if this build works in DoA. I mean, first it says that this build is meant for HM and Protector titles and stuff (which I must agree since it works so well), and well, DoA is like a hard mode area. DoA is quite for fun me but I don't like how you have to find specifc people inorder to play DoA. I just wanna play with maybe a couple of friends WITHOUT people who blame you for being a "bad" player for making one minor mistake. I mean, if it works for HM why can't you do this like really quickly?
 * I wouldn't recommend it. If you want to run DoA with a friend and six heroes make a DoA build. That is totally doable. [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   00:16, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks. When you say it's totally doable, do you mean going with a friend with 6 heroes or this build?
 * We have a build that is just a modded sabway for DoA -> here -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]]  <font color="Black">Music  00:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Sabway
In our ongoing attempt to make pvx more pro, this should be moved to sabway. Goes with the same reason imbagon was moved. I.e. Everyone knows this as sabway.  Life  02:01, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * sup? -- -Ch  ao  s-   08:53, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Ranger Build
I'm currently using a Barrage/damage/interrupt ranger build with this, but I'm wondering if there are any better skill sets to use... Barrage seems to work extremely well with splinter weapon205.250.76.39 03:50, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

What did you do to Sab's MM?
Where is the animate fiends? Sab's original build is here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10292641 - DarkSpirit 05:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * animate bone minions is used because they can wall block more and refresh minions easier. PVX-Zyke 05:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * And that is why Sab added animate shamblings (and fiends) too in her main MM build. The disadvantage of bone minions is that they are much weaker and easily wiped by AoE even though they explode with death nova easier.  Say bye bye to your defensive minion wall. - DarkSpirit 05:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * In NM and easier parts of hm, you should use minions since them exploding is much more useful then a meatwall--Relyk 09:05, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The argument is not whether to have minions or not but which minions are to be used.. Shamblings atleast, the others can vary all they want. -- -Ch  ao  s-   17:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * tbh, I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I only use Minions when I'm H/Hing, and I take Divert Hexes over Jagged Bones so I don't get stomped by hexes. 128.255.216.144 18:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that's dumb. The point of Jagged Bones was to have exploding minions that come back from the dead.  You can take heavy hex removal if there are heavy hexes, but otherwise it's a bad choice compared to JB.  [[Image:Benjammn311Sig5.png]] 18:45, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a reminder: this build has no hex removal traditionally, and the best you're gonna get from a hench is Blessed Light. 128.255.216.144 19:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just stick hex removal on the MM --[[Image:Tai_Sig.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">19:25, 19 March 2009 
 * Wow, Tai. That is one hell of an idea. I mean, I never would've thought to do that. What was I thinking running Divert Hexes? mirite? 128.255.216.144 19:27, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well using your elite slot for hex removal is a bad idea here, because Jagged means more lolness in minions kersploding. just use cure/remove hex. --[[Image:Tai_Sig.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">19:32, 19 March 2009 
 * I use empathic removal, although cure hex is usually enough so i just use jagged now--Relyk 07:15, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * if i go into a hex heavy area i just slap on remove hex and cure hex and good to go.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more "good" Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 09:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * MM is still bloody awful in my opinion. Originally Sab had one high level MM with prots and one with Bone Minions that had Dwayna's Sorrow. Idea was, you dont get much when enchanting higher level minions with Dwayna's, low level minions are very effective with it and overhealing it will give acts like replacement for one prots gave. --Anonimous. D: 09:27, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Explain why dwaynas is good, i dont get how it is all that useful D:--Relyk 09:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats why it's variant bar. ;) When you get hit by AoE it brings all bars back up but mostly it's just icing on a cake. --Anonimous. D: 10:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Sab was wise to have both MM bars with one of them as variant. Fiends and Shamblings for a much tougher meat shield and ranged damage, and bone minions for easier bombing.  There are pros and cons on using bone minions.  Even though they die and bomb easier, if they encounter AoE damage you can have your minions being wiped out faster than your single JB can help. - DarkSpirit 00:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay guys, it's time to fess up. Where is this hypothetical "hex heavy area" everyone keeps speaking of?????  I'm L.Eotn and almost finished with VQ title all H/H (except slavers HM).  The only times I have ever needed hex removal was when I wasn't running a MM anyway (surprise!).  Face it, taking elite hex removal instead of jagged bones is just retarded.  Play more Guild Wars and less PvX Wars.  --Zaney 06:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It depends on your profession. If you are using, say, an imbagon or other SY, adrenal-wanting builds then any area with soothing image mesmer classes or attack speed reducing hexes is a very bad area if you don't bring hex removal. Although, in that case you can just remove the prot from the MM (since you are already providing it) and slap on a couple hex removal skills which you'll have to micro (well, you'll probably want to micro them). Sab works better than Rac in hex areas if you put spotless mind and a generic other hex removal on your MM. -- DL 12:42, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Fixed
Fixed Jagged MM to reflect Sab's original (and better) idea. --Anonimous. D: 10:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

the mm is too energie heavy even for nekro e-management. Illoyon 17:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You've got minions who die decently frequently and shit dies commonly in PvE, Soul Reaping is a big e-manager. --☭Guild *talk* 00:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, not to mention SoLS also helps with the energy. But if you are not killing fast enough (i.e. doing it wrong), the MM can still run out of energy.  You can replace the fiends with bone horrors if your MM keeps running into energy issues, but I would look into your character build to see how it can be improved upon for more damage. - DarkSpirit 00:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:A/D_Critical_Scythe_Assassin in most situations. Illoyon 02:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I yet have to run into e-management issues with this. =/ But I can see this, high level MM has two high energy cost spells with very "spammy" nature, if lots of corpses are availible in battle your hero will spam Bone Fiends and miss some SoLS eventually running out of energy. Dark suggested very common replacement, Bone Horrors. --Anonimous. D: 02:49, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * @Illoyon: wut? <b style="border:1px solid #C5BE83;background-color:#F5DEB3;font-size:0.9em;"> Star of Exile  [[Image:Star star 2.png|19px]]  talk  </b> 02:49, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

hex removal?
convert hexes on mm's bar a viable idea? 96.254.172.89 02:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Should micro it then.Masterbow 15:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cure hex would work fine. Bring divert if its a problem--Relyk 20:43, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

SV
Well...

"If there aren't any corpses available, trade this hero for one carrying Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor"

i just want to know how to skill an SV Hero, or an other SS. I thought about sth. like this...

pls help me. Illoyon 18:32, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * OoP? lulz. Anyways, I'd take


 * Empty slot is brave. Spoil Victor is kinda meh anyhow; Blood Magic, single target, doesn't help against ~500hp targets. SS on the other hand is in a useful attribute, AoE and always hurts. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:39, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Sabway without EotN
I was just wondering if anyone thought of a way that could make this build available to players without EotN. Perhaps substituting putrid bile for something else, and making the healer a monk or a ritualist. Does anyone know if you could still make this build work? Himoto 13:22 April 17 2009
 * Just replace Putrid with one of the alternates and add more condition removal and you should be fine. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">18:31, 17 April 2009

But without EotN you don't get the third necro. So just make the N/Rit healer a Rit/any? Himoto 12:32 April 18 2009
 * Use a Rt/N MM instead I say.[[Image:Signature-Liger414.png|19px]]<font color="SaddleBrown">The Liger  <font color="Darkgoldenrod">talk  08:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC) 17:37, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, use a roj monk instead of necro healer--Relyk 19:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I ended up using this build with a monk running Word of Healing and Healing Light builds (for 6 and 8 man teams) and SoR (4 man teams). They all worked well enough to vanquish the hardest areas in Cantha and Elona. Sometimes even better for areas with major hexes. Himoto 10:04 p.m. April 18 2009

MM Variants
It may be a good idea to list the Pros/Cons for using each of the two MM variants. Right now they're just listed without any notes such as energy management difficulties or the lack of prot spirit.64.180.191.79 16:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think most of us are assuming that people are intelligent enough to figure it out for themselves. If you think that they aren't, then please feel free to add the notes yourself. [[Image:KJ needed a new sig....sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray">16:43, 20 April 2009
 * Uh-huh, that's why there's a big long discussion on this matter a few paragraphs up...64.180.191.79 03:42, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Chilling Wisp
my team gets owned when trying a fight a group of 4+ Chilling Wisps, can anyone help me with this? Also i get owned by water ele's (Avalanches, frozen ELe's, and ice imps). also I only fight with Heros and henchies(henchies:zho, Mhenlo/lina, Cynn AND Herta. and i play as a Dervish. HELP!!!!!! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.70.73.106 (talk &bull; contribs).
 * Micro aegis/prot spirit. Make sure to disable death nova too. They seem to use it at the worst of times.. ~ Big  [[Image:Big sadface sig.PNG]]  sysop  15:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * k thnx. should i use Vow of Silence to kill/pull imps and frozen ele's(? and if I do what would be a good build with VoS to KILL?
 * Wounding Strike + AoHM + Asuran Scan = hueg damage and blown up mobs. VoS is a waste of an elite imo. ~ Big  [[Image:Big sadface sig.PNG]]  sysop  15:47, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thnx man I will try it later--74.70.73.106 16:24, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Pressure
I made an observation when I was vanquishing Varajar Fells: When my team (heros and henchies) fought against a small group of ice imps, frozen ele's, my group struggled to heal and stay alive(but we did). But when we were attcked by...like 8+ enemies at the same time we didnt have any trouble (to my surprise). We fought 2 groups of ice imps + Nightmares. dam even one group of imps scare me. Why is this?--74.70.73.106 21:33, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * First of all: Imps use maelstrom, that interrupts your heroes. Second: Sabway has lots of AOE stuff to kill things, imps are smaller groups of spellcasters, so you have less damage output. Third: Imps are casters and because of the skills used by sabway you do less damage.Masterbow 12:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Try reading. The page specifically states the build is weak to hexes. Now try thinking. Imps use snare hexes along with maelstrom. Now try microing. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] {&#123;Bacon}} 21:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * what does macroing mean?--74.70.73.106 22:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Controlling your heros manually, i.e. flag them, force to cast, disabling skills, etc. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 22:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

New Update (Protective was Kaolai)
I'm wondering if the build still works even with the increased recharge time on this skill that was in the last game update. Is this still a viable skill to use?205.250.73.189 23:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Imo the N/Rt healer is better being a N/Mo Prot/Healer anyways...but i like not taking damage so.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 01:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, but this time related to whatever you are replying to?152.226.6.203 01:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still viable, and probably the best option. However, you'll see a fallout in healing abilities that is somewhat significant. Be sure to take both hench monks for harder areas.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 01:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * i barely notice a difference--Relyk 06:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In 4 man areas you will.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 06:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah definitely noticed it there while doing zen dajin and places with lots of aoe damage now actually--Relyk 22:26, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The Spiteful Spirit guy
I can't get my hero to 12 curses, 10 channeling, 8 soulreaping and 2 restoration, how that possible? 80.101.199.130 13:52, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hes obviously not level 20 --Sam6555 13:53, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Had my doubts
Reguarding the 2/2 grawl warrior/monk teams between Frontier Gate and Ruins of Surmia. Once you get a few minions up its good to go. Granted you will need to run some form of monk shut down. I am mesmer so backfire/VoS and hexing the warriors worked just fine and everything past them was easy like it was normal mode end game. 72.160.248.17 02:54, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * cool story bro [[image:Thunda_Sig_2.jpg‎ |19px]]<font color="Orange" face="Harrington" size="3">Thunda 04:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Orders
I was just wondering whether orders would work if put on the Healing Necro? If points were taken out of Soul Reaping and resto and put into Blood magic, you could put Order of the Vampire and/or Order of Pain on the bar. The health loss is a bit of a problem, but this could be very useful for some builds, especially dervishes who would get a mysticism bonus.--Grandmaster Chen 20:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol. Healer kinda needs soul reaping the most. <font color="Maroon">Athrun [[image:Athrun_Sig.gif]]<font color="Grey">Feya  20:53, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Orders is kinda meh in sabway because a. you're guaranteed three characters that can't take advantage of it at all, compared to the 5-6 who can in physical teams, and b. you can't really most people don't bring dark fury to compliment it. But if you want it, take the dwayna's sorrow MM, trade sorrow for OoP and infuse for DF. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] {&#123;Bacon}} 21:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the feedback.--Grandmaster Chen 23:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, orders works on the minions and increases their damage. If you normally bring 2 warriors with sab and you use a physical class yourself, then it likely is worth it to pack orders instead of foul feast. That's not really the point of the build though. You want your minions to do the most damage through death nova, not through staying alive. If you're already using the build wrong and bringing blood of the master or other spells to keep your minions up, then orders will actually really help that. If not, then...not so much. With your derv, you should probably pack normal sab and try to team up with an imba packing rac. That is ridiculously unbalanced and dominates everything, even hexes if you bring a hex variant MM and use hex variant rac builds. -- DL 25:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I stopped reading when I realized you couldn't read. Minions aren't party members, last I checked. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] {&#123;Bacon}} 06:19, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * the mm would have very hard time with energy--Relyk 07:41, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah... like I said, sabway and physical teams don't mix well. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] {&#123;Bacon}} 06:17, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

dpact
Why is dpact worse on a healer than on anything else? Why is it inferior to FoMF ever in PvE? -- Armond Warblade {&#123;Bacon}} 04:33, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Because having your healer dead is bad? If shit is actually dying, you're either 1) terrible(use fomf) 2) Overagroing(get better at the game, or use fomf) or 3) getting spiked down in one cast, making it impossible to heal(use fomf). Losing half your hp in pve doesnt matter because the AI doesn't capitalize on it. However, in high end areas where shit can do ridiculous damage, theres no reason to bring dpact. It'll just end up hurting you more than helping you. In some of the earlier areas, you shouldnt even need to bring a rez, but if you did, dpact would be the better option because of the lack of random things hitting into the 400s with ele skills. Life   Guardian  04:39, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you really ask why DPact is bad on a healer? ... Drahgal Meir 05:50, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Likelyhood is that is something dies, its going to die again - ultimately taking your healer with it. I'm not sure I like dpact being on the SS either. <font color="Maroon">Athrun [[image:Athrun_Sig.gif]]<font color="Grey">Feya  08:54, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * ...What the fuck are you guys doing that things die more than once? Dying indicates you fucked up, dying again indicates you didn't learn. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] {&#123;Bacon}} 16:27, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * yesyes, things might die. Now let me archive. I'm too lazy to scroll. -- -Ch  ao  s-   16:33, September 6, 2009 (UTC)