Build talk:Team - DoA Trenchway

Rating
5-5 now. Life  Guardian  22:28, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * This build is relevant to my interests. Angueo [[Image:AngueoSignature.jpg|19px]] 00:13, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Can you introduce me to this build?:) Im not sure but I think it fastest build which came from trial (if it was in trial) to meta. I even didn't see it testing category, but Im here every day :) Am I right that every one saw 26 mins in screen and gave 5-5 rates?:) This build has about 10 or more editions - Ive never seen something like that an tbh Im impressed and worried as well. If it is thrice faster from glaiveway so price of Armbrance will drop headlong, but... Im going to try it when I ll have free 26 minutes :) -- God  Kamil 08:46, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Trust me, you're a fuck awful player who has not a chance in hell of running this properly. I'd be amazed if you managed to finish DoA in under 3 consets --74.63.112.143 14:45, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes? Why do you think so?:) Do you know me?:)-- God Focused Anger.jpg Kamil 16:29, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

We have been running this build for many months, it is the meta for high-end SC guilds, just nobody bothered to put it on PvX until now. I doubt armbrace prices will be affected, since this is much more technically complicated than DwG. -- Impulsion
 * Yes, I belive that it is more complicated but, you know every one can learn everything after many tries. -- God Focused Anger.jpg Kamil 16:29, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * im going to refer you to the state of fow pugs(and fow is 100x easier than doa), and then ask you to retract that statement. Life   Guardian  19:50, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you mean. You want me to retract statement that it everyone can lear everything? You don't belive ppl can learn to use this build? So what for is that here if some ppl say I won't learn it? I thought builds on PvX are for everyone's usage and generally everyone would learn it with well-made usage section. -- God "Save Yourselves!".jpg Kamil will save you!  07:41, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kamil, I'm not trying to be an ass or troll you, but you're acting like an idiot. Fighting with admins isn't going make you look smart. Sex and Waffles 07:46, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Im not fighting, this is discussion where you talk with ppl and while you are talking you can discover new truths, you can learn many things and get to know new experiences :) -- God "Save Yourselves!".jpg Kamil will save you!  08:50, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can guarantee 100% that you'll never be able to pug this. Ever. If you're a guild with some form of VoIP, then, after learning the run with a standard casterspike, you'll probably be able to run this. I said that line because when looking at fow pugs, it is very clear that anything requiring the smallest form of skill is well beyond most of the skill levels present in this game, including this build. Life   Guardian  08:20, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe not pug but I would like to try it with my guild mates. -- God "Save Yourselves!".jpg Kamil will save you!  08:51, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who said this build is for pugs?!?!?! cause looking at it you can cleary see IT'S NOT! >{ CaRnyVaL  }™ [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 10:30, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * At the current state, this is completely impossible to PUG in ad1. However if you look in the german district, solo tank runs do occasionally form in what is technically a PUG (although everyone will know everybody else, and go on the same teamspeak) -- Impulsion
 * pug=/=german pug, germans are germans :P >{ CaRnyVaL  }™ [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 20:41, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Zomg! PvE srs bsns. --Myotheraccount 00:15, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * ofc it is xP >{ CaRnyVaL  }™ [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 17:06, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * How the hell can A/Me tank survive without sod? =\

Why life bond before port bond?
 * Some attacks will trigger prot bond if it is on first, by putting life bond first you halve the dmg and it doesn't trigger prot bond any more. The E/Mo can run out of energy otherwise, and seed easily heals enough with the bonds this way around -- Impulsion

No recall mes wut--TahiriVeila 22:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Swap
Hi Im God Kamil, do you remember me?:P Ive started playing this with my guild and I have one question, what for is swap in MT build? Wouldn't be better mental block?
 * Mental block is a bad choice because in Hard Mode, the area affect activates and if I remember correctly, 50 damage for each blocked attack. And I think swap is used for more jumps and veil tactics. DJ Aman 01:35, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Swap is pretty shitty. Afaik you run two identical CC bars (at least that's how we do it LOD and we've gotten sever sub-25 runs now). Same as the one listed on the page. All the mesmer builds + permaseed are out of date too. But there's lots of different mesmer setups used to record or near-record trenchways now.--TahiriVeila 06:12, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Definitely didnt realize you were in LOD. Also, shh about that. Life Guardian 06:54, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Swap is used to move EoE around and to move spirits in foundry, it is not needed and can easily be changed. I am working on writing up our tactics for 1 conset runs, but we still use perma seed for normal runs because it just makes everything safer with a less experienced team, and only at the cost of a little speed. -- Impulsion

photoshop on 23min screenshot
That screen-shoot is OBVIOUSLY photoshop. "path to the Foundry ... is open?" Right after veil ... Unless you hacked Anet server, after veil is done path to Gloom (NOT Foundry) is open. And the person that screenshot either disconnected after gloom or it is INCOMPLETED DoA run.
 * The ranger does all of gloom solo with the me/n to get him into gloom you dumb fuck. Just because the mesmers haven't been to gloom doesn't mean it hasn't been cleared--TahiriVeila 22:08, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * currently outdated, 22 min run has been done i think, but you get the idea. Stop being fucking retarded and l2guru anon--TahiriVeila 22:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose you're right. Good job dodging wild throws, disrupting throws, stunning strikes, and savage shots. I've got to invest more on adobe company.
 * Are you fucking stupid?--TahiriVeila 05:01, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Well unless you have a glitch to get into gloom BEFORE veil is done(which I doubt exist), I am standing on my ground about photoshop.
 * Lol,there is one. You lure the mob beyond the gloom gate(still in veil) over to the gloom gate. The tormentors will kill one of the Order of Whispers, and you can then NT across into gloom. Life Guardian 00:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * HELLO THERE HOW DO I GOT INTO GLOOM 68.149.47.233 22:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * This. People have been using this glitch for over a year now =\--TahiriVeila 00:58, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not like this is a rarity, there are at least 4 or 5 glitches like this one -- Impulsion
 * It's hardly a glitch. More of an exploit really. It's a common game mechanic(ie urgoz bridge) applied to an area that anet never foresaw it happening in. Life Guardian 19:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

BuH
And what now? Will spikes be still so good as previous? Is there any skill which would change BuH?-- God  Kamil  20:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The spikes are fine. It's just not as clean with fuckwit mesmers anymore.  The bars here are, and have been, horrendously out of date for quite some time.  The SS mesmer hasn't been used in ages by the top end guilds, even for single tank setups, there is no troll bar (wandering eye), etc.  Some guilds are experimenting with spikes involving elemental damage now.  The real problem is the enchantment removal in gloom.  There are a couple of tank options for shrine cap, but it cuts down on utility elsewhere, and if the last spike in gloom goes badly, it goes really really fucking horrendously so.  TL;DR runs are a few minutes slower for the time being, but sub hour runs are still effortless if your tanks are good and your team doesn't need to be told what to do on every spike.  71.139.140.205 03:23, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Page updated with our current builds. We use SS over wandering eye, I believe they are similar for spikes and that SS is superior for city wall, killing lords solo, and killing Jadoth. Enchantment removal in gloom is no problem. -- Impulsion

Golden Egg + Candy Corn
Why does the build recommend this? Here are the calculations for duration of Seed of Life at the various DF levels:

According to http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Duration#Enchantments "In practice, durations always last an exact number of seconds, even though modifications should, in theory, end up with fractions of a second. Testing reveals that fractions parts below 0.5 are rounded down (20.4 becomes 20); those at least half a second are rounded up (20.5 becomes 21.0)."

Seed of Life Duration * Blessed Aura
 * 19 Divine Favor - (5 * 1.42) = 7.1
 * 18 Divine Favor - (5 * 1.40) = 7.0
 * 17 Divine Favor - (5 * 1.38) = 6.9
 * 16 Divine Favor - (5 * 1.37) = 6.85
 * 15 Divine Favor - (5 * 1.35) = 6.75
 * 14 Divine Favor - (5 * 1.33) = 6.65

According to http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blessed_Aura "The effect stacks with an "of Enchanting" weapon modifier, with Blessed Aura applied to the duration and rounded to the nearest integer before the weapon modifier is applied and rounded."

So, because after all the Blessed Aura modifications we get 7 seconds (according to the rounding rule stated above), all "of Enchanting" modifications will yield 8.4 second duration (7.0 * 1.20 = 8.40), which according to our rounding rule will yield an 8 second duration. In this case, 14 is as good as 19 DF since the extra Divine Favor bonus is not something that's important to the build. 174.114.140.183 20:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I dont agree with you, every cons are useful, I play as seeder and I even use Eggs to give my team more hp during seed - 36 instead of 32.-- God Focused Anger.jpg Kamil  13:33, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thing is, the wiki info isn't (completely) right. Following that logic, patspirit with 20% mod would last 2 seconds. however, try for yourself, its 3 sec. not sure bout this tho. Falrach 13:39, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * As per http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Patient_Spirit#Enchanting_Mod "correction a enchanting mod will make patent have a 3 second duration due to an anomaly. 96.13.71.219 19:31, 1 March 2009 (UTC)" Also, consult the notes on http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Patient_Spirit . It is specifically mentioned because it contradicts the expected calculation. It seems Patient Spirit is an anomaly, and the rounding logic is consistent with the rest of the game. RE: Cons for Seed, my post was more specifically about duration of enchantments. While the +2 to Sunspear would likely benefit, the article does point out that you only need the eggs for Blessed Aura, which is what I was addressing. It's a very specific argument, and I feel that the +2 Sunspear benefit is negligible at best. An additional 4hp, to me, isn't worth all the hording eggs and candy corns would require. I will grant, however, that is a matter of personal preference. Again, as the egg and candy corn relate to the power of Blessed Aura, the article's premise that it will improve performance is mistaken. 174.114.140.183 21:37, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The point of corn + eggs on the seeder is to heal the party for more during spikes to prevent mid-spike deaths.--TahiriVeila 22:18, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Not according to the note in the article. "Sweets: Using a golden egg + candy corn before you cast blessed aura is recommended. You will only need to recast blessed aura if you die, and so should reapply the candies then." The article does not mention Seed of Life in relation to "Sweets" in the "Equipment" section. Also, I'd argue that Seed of Life is included as a counter-pressure skill. Infuse Health on the E/Mo is the primary skill for the use that you describe. "prevent mid-spike deaths." 174.114.140.183 22:57, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * stop being dumb. shit in doa hits for 600+ and the emo has more important shit to do than spot heal people. You put a seed on during spikes and no one dies. This is a tank and spank build, there's no fucking pressure. zzz--TahiriVeila 00:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Mr Ip. if you even read the tactics you would know that seed is mantained on the EMo during some parts, or the tank would die in a few seconds. Especially during jadoth and foundry big room. At other parts it isn't up at all times but it usually is. That's the main usage of seed. Falrach 06:49, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It's clear that the nuance of my argument fails to be apparent and in the interest of community solidarity: how could I have been so stupid? You guys are totally right. 174.114.140.183 21:05, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Your maths is incorrect. The enchanting bonus is applied first - raising the length of seed to precisely 6 seconds. At divine favor 18 you then get 8.4s of seed - rounded down to 8secs, at divine favor 19 you get 8.52s of seed - rounded up to 9secs. The builds here do not require perma-seed, so it is only a recommendation not a requirement. On a sidenote, corn/eggs only raise attributes, not sunspear rank. -- Impulsion
 * I was under the impression Blessed Aura did its calculations first, and rounded completely. Then the Enchanting mod was applied. The Blessed Aura article explicitly mentions this. If Blessed Aura didn't round, then you would be correct, but from what I understand, it rounds first before the Enchanting mod is applied. Therefore, it all rounds to 7 seconds. So unless the GWW article is wrong, I believe your order of operations is reverse. If you're correct in that the enchanting mod is applied before Blessed Aura, then your calculations are correct. However, that order of application seems to be counter to what GWW says. Unless this article is wrong, I believe you have the order of application mixed up, the math isn't "wrong" persay. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blessed_Aura - See the first note. 174.114.140.183 07:41, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

What I said is correct. Both effects round, but the enchanting weapon is applied first. This is consistent with anything else: armor/weapons etc. are all applied before stuff in the effects monitor. If the wiki says different then it's incorrect (I cannot view it currently even with a proxy so I'm guessing the anet servers are down again) -- Impulsion 10:26, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Teams or Guilds
I want to learn this run. Does anyone know of a group or guild that runs this and/or teaches it? -- Moto   Saxon  23:30, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * App to Zraf they love teaching kids. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 173.51.169.143 (talk &bull; contribs).

A Little Outdated
SS should always be run with a Red Rock, is almost never a necro. SS is almost always never run, inferior to Keystone and in some cases (dependng on A/N) Troller. Spiritual Pain has also fallen off the meta in favor of Overload-Shatter Delusions combo. A/Me takes SoH over HoS normally now. --Strayver 14:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Our knowledgeable contributors have somewhat fallen away. If you have knowledge of the builds though, feel free to correct any inaccuracies you may find. Aonsephonie 16:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think SS is superior to the "troll" bar because it's better on city wall and Jadoth, whilst the dmg in spikes is enough to spike which is all you need. The reason for necro primary is for soul reaping, but Me/N or N/Me are fairly equal tbh. Red rocks aren't required, the 5% difference from cons is negligible, rather a 40/40 curses set should be required. Keystone is not good because it interrupts VoR triggers on enemies in foundry, city wall and spikes.
 * We have changed the builds up quite a lot, having Deep Freeze on the monk and stuff, however recently we have a new tactic that is very fast but significantly harder for the A/N job. This tactic is easily capable of sub-conset casual runs but needs some perfecting before I put it on PvX -- Impulsion 01:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * SS as a necro works perfectly, spiritual pain is still very strong for cleanup and i have yet to see a use for SoH on an a/me bar. These bars are a little outdated compared with what we currently run, but there is really very little difference. edit - updated to our current builds. Paranon15 11:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

WTF!
WTF!!!!!

Loool?
Idk why the seeder would have DF, i fixed the bars yesterday, but someone changed them back, doesn't seem very practical for the seeder to have to run up to deepfreeze when a mesmer could do it.
 * The "seeder" doesnt need anything else and has infinite energy from life bond + BS, so i think it makes perfect sense for them to do it. A mesmer could do it but that means that mesmer is not dealing damage so the spike is slow, whereas the monk has nothing else to cast during the spike and has easily enough energy to do it.Paranon15 20:36, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If I remember correctly, aren't there some spikes that seeder has to seed during a spike?,i.e, Gloom earth darkness pop ups and fury spike?. Also, during the cave split, its recommended to have df, in this case, the seeder and monk would be at rift capture with main tank. Imo, it seems less practical for a seeder to carry DF, even if they have unlimited energy.-Wracks 18:39, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless you're really bad you shouldn't ever need deep freeze.--TahiriVeila 18:47, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Freeze has never been needed or used in cave, and at earth tormentor spawns you can pretty easily freeze then seed.Paranon15 11:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * DF is useful in 2 places: the trench group in veil, and the earth tormentors at darknesses. No it isn't needed, just as mantra of resolve is not needed, or how seed isn't needed - it just makes things safer and easier. -- Impulsion 12:01, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Forgot you guys use trench near gloom instead of the one right outside city. If you're using the one outside city you can just have on spiker kill a torment to put the tank in. For newer players i suppose earth tormenter spawns could be a problem but any team with even moderate experience should be able to handle them without DF easily. Also I'd argue that two copies of NT is safer than resolve since the only place resolve would ever be useful is gloom cave. With a few practice runs though it's incredibly simple to be comfortable with the safe spots, though and a decent tank should never get rupted there. IT's far easier to mess up in trench and die in an un-rezable spot which means the entire team would have to pop a trench using up loads of time. It's really preference i know but /shrug.--TahiriVeila 14:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * gj pretending you know about doa jake!, mantra isnt used in gloom cave because gloom cave is the a/n's job and if you aren't doing full trench 2 copies of NT is useless.Paranon15 14:29, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Been tanking DoA for LOD for like 3 months get on my level. If you're not using mantra at gloom then bringing it is entirely pointless. Not doing full trench in casuals is also pointless.--TahiriVeila 16:44, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know who you are in game, Tahiri, but since Zraw runs are still faster than LOD runs (average of like what, 33-35 minutes?) as opposed to 38-42 in most LOD runs due to at least some fuckup, shit talking to them seems kind of useless. If I were you I'd keep your tone down a little, since you don't know half as much about DoA as you think you do. The reason Zraw doesn't do full trench is for the gloom tank to get there faster. The split they do where you do clover + ele + necro lord is maybe 2-3 minutes, which is slightly slower than the hill splits, but it does the trick. The gloom patrol being dead enables the gloom tank to glitch the trench so that that's time saved after TK'ing for the team to go straight to gloom and not having to deal with the dumbass patrol. It also enables the gloom tank to get into gloom even if the patrol at monk lord contains no water, because the trench pop also has a 50% chance of containing a water tormentor. Stop pretending you know anything about how tactics work, and stop shit talking please. "I've been tanking in LOD for 3 months, get on my level."? Seriously? You dare say that to people like Impulsion and others in Zraw? People that have more experience in DoA than you have in breathing air. On the topic, I am probably the person who taught you how to tank, I'm just trying to think of who I started teaching 3 months ago that could have such a large ego to start insulting and shit talking on a site like PvX. On a second thought, perhaps teaching you was a bad idea then. I'd also be very interested in your IGN to be honest, since your stay in LOD will be in quite a peril due to your show of attitude here. LOD does not appreciate people shit talking and pretending to be almighty and slandering the good name of the guild. I can know, I've kicked people for those reasons. I'd very much appreciate that you left your IGN on here so actions can be taken regarding your attitude. Sincerely, Bright. 62.235.165.146 10:25, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * lol gw so srs -- Jai . -  14:26, June 27 2011 (UTC)
 * Zzzz Bright, thats Jake- hes not in LOD* anymore anyway, also - cant you tell he wasnt serious? pretty sure him + Paranon (hense the "gj pretending you know DoA Jake!" from mike) are friends and Jake knows that mike doesnt(idk he might now) tank DoA, what he said was probably an in-joke -.- pretty sure his comment wasnt directed at impulsion and was at Paranon. Dont be so serious :< 86.130.126.124 14:45, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol, Mike (Paranon) can tank now, at least he claimed to me he can :P Don't know how much of it is true though... Anyway, I did in fact not see that he was sarcastic, and got the general impression that he was shit talking all over the wiki. In this case, I'll withdraw my objection I guess... Carry on. Bright 62.235.171.250 15:40, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Wasn't shit talking impulsion. I know he's a good player. Was simply pointing out that the methods he posted here aren't the only way to do things. Was trolling paranon for being a prick when he's a massive nobody. Honestly never seen him post here and I've been at the center of the circle jerk on pvx for, what? 3-4 years now? Cheers--TahiriVeila 20:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't see what u mean by a "nobody" - Mike (paranon) is a Zraw officer and is playing a tank role for our DoA record runs, he has also tanked casual runs in the 30-35min range. Anyway this page is written up using [Zraw] tactics and is about them, if you wanna write up LOD* tactics on a separate page then feel free. The fact remains that the tactics we use are currently the best casual DoA tactics - that is they deliver not only the fastest times but are incredibly safe and easy to do.
 * I will explain to you briefly the difference between our tactics and LOD tactics. We pull out only 1 lord, and send the main team into the trenches to kill the other three. Advantages: A/N can goto gloom 100% of the time and have cave prepped, ranger hungers are not spiked, can split on ranger/derv lord, safer (pulling monk = a lot safer and easier than pulling 3 lords), trench to gloom is prepped by a/n so its completely clear for the main team once veil is done. Disadvantages: Killing 3 lords from the top is faster than killing 3 in the trench, killing tendrils 6-0 is faster than 3-3, spiking the first trench is faster than spiking the far one. So on balance, time wise ours is still slightly faster (gloom+trench prep+underlord split+no ranger prep vs lords from top+6-0 tendrils+1man trench spike), and is considerably safer. As I said before, I am developing tactics that will allow both gloom prep AND pulling all lords to the wall, however it does not currently retain the safety of the tactics here -- Impulsion 13:31, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * My opinion doesn't mean much here, but if the bars are different enough, you should just submit your strategy as a new build. If your strategy is as superior as you say, post screencaps with the build and I'm sure that the votes will reflect that. Aonsephonie 00:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's really not worth the effort. The build article doesn't have an actual usage just some general usage that should be in the individual sections. Arguing about usage that doesn't exist is the main problem. It would be nice to list the most reliable tactics and then list alternatives that can speed up or make the run easier.-- Relyk 01:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Look at all these young DoA motherfucks up in this bitch. Skakid9090 21:23, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Guide?
I watched each of the videos extensively, but I dare not attempt the a/n job because of one llittle confusion I keep getting hit with. How on earth in Ravenheart gloom do you keep the cave army from killing the backmost npc? Aren't they programmed to run all the way back to him? I see the a/n pull the first group of flesh and mind tormentors, but the mobs just stay put...yet having died in average teams, if the group wipes in front of the cave, enemies still pour into the back and kill quest npc. How is this accomplished? Innoruuk 03:38, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The cave mobs actually do NOT get within range of the acolyte(at first). They do however agro onto his protector guys which puts them in range of the acolyte. You basically walk backwards slowly along the wall until the order guys agro onto all the tormentors and die. Then, all you have to do is stop the very last mob from reaching the cave and theyll never move forward. Note that i havent done doa in about a year so general tactics might have changed. Life Guardian 23:53, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you hold the flesh tormentors so that the NPC warriors die without pulling aggro to the warden then almost all groups will never go into range of the warden. It is a little spawn dependent however, and rarely the warden can get aggro and thus fail, however 9 times out of 10 you are fine by just catching the final group. -- Impulsion 16:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you all this made my a/n job much easier XD. Stupid earth tormentors were always a bitch tanking for so long. Innoruuk 00:20, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Doing something wrong if you're tanking earth tormenters for more than a couple of seconds (the amount of time for agro to settle + spike)--TahiriVeila 02:01, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

who keeps adding keystone? and fh over spritual pain on the tk bar.
 * It's a wiki, you can edit whatever you want Falrach 19:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * not if what you add is shitpoor garbage--TahiriVeila 21:09, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

so is there a fast (and non-suicidal) way to pull all lords + prep gloom? or is this stuck :\ &#9823;Fianchetto 19:45, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah and it can do doa casual in like 24-25min. It makes the A/N job quite a lot harder than this way on pvx though, so maybe its "suicidal" ;) -- Impulsion 17:37, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you please put a guide on it? :). Triss 16:06, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Teleport Nerfs
This has almost no net effect on the run as a whole. You can still do the 4-4 underlord split, and then as the team is going down the mesmer lord trench, your "trench" tank, clears monk lord trench, pulls the monk lord out and starts working on the gloom trench. The team does their standard stuff. Pull the two patrols + mesmer lord in and spike them after going down the trench. Then the main tank and necro go off to duo the necro lord. The 3 mesmers, monk and ele clear the patrol in front of the ele lord. All of this is as normal. Instead of just standing around, the two mesmers without recall can go off and kill the monk lord with the monk. Backfire + cover hex and GG. The lord wont run because you are in the trench either.

The trench tank can prepare the gloom trench fully by this time, or at least get to the point where he can pull the mobs into the team as tendrils are being done. Plant a shadow of haste up the trench and skip your chest till later to start gloom prep as early as possible. The "trench" tank should skip pulling the first groups off to the side and just trigger cave as fast as possible.

The main team may be able to get into gloom fast enough to intercept all the earth tormentor spawns too. If that's true, the trench tank can literally just run into the cave on the safe spot in the corner and cry for 2 minutes while everything else spawns, and allow you to do everything with a single large spike.

Note that these are just things that I thought of in less than 5 minutes, and there may be even faster ways to do things. Additionally, with two tanks available, experienced teams should strongly consider 6-0 tendrils over 3-3.

TL;DR. Runs are 3 minutes longer, if anyone here actually cares. Muh braces. Double Derv Dare 20:49, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Appreciate the feedback bro. Thanks for taking the time to update everyone. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 04:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It's probably best if you just update the page. I doubt you'll get objections and you seem to know DoA well. If you could, please take a look at Build:Team - DoA Solo Tank‎ as well. -- Toraen   confer  01:36, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Honestly, the single tank stuff is a bit weirder, and utilized 4 lord trench tactics. The gimmick on single tank was that you didn't need smell protection for most of veil, and the rest of the run was minimally impacted by having 1 tank, provided you had ways of jumping that tank across large gaps (especially in gloom), which meld let you do. As many really awesome things as you can do with shadow meld in veil (literally dozens of tricks), there isn't really any point in bringing it if you cant put your tank in the trench to do 3 or 4 lords. As a result, a major overhaul to the details on single tank tactics would be required, and at that point you may as well just run dual tanks. In short, the meld mesmer only existed because of the splits in veil.


 * In terms of modifying the page here, I'm not sure. I'll probably do some basic revisions if I remember to tomorrow. As I said, the only thing that really changed is veil, and it's mostly details at that. The guilds that still play GW 1 already know what to do here. The only thing I can think of that may not have been thought of by them is a way to use the shadow walk bar to pop both the monk lord and gloom trench at approximately the same time, while pulling both of them clean, and that's moderately advanced pull that involves multiple shadow of haste shadow walk movements without interruption. I don't even know if I'd recommend putting that on the page to begin with. There's tons of tiny things that never made it onto these pages because of the situational, dangerous, or difficult nature of them. (For example, you've always been able to do the entire cave + outside mobs in one spike, but it's a very dangerous spike if your team isn't on their game.) Double Derv Dare 02:37, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

outdated
The page is many years out of date, and contains info that was never correct. I doubt anyone will make the effort to fix it, but I've linked to the SC wiki page so people can find the right stuff. Houroftheowl (talk) 07:36, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This should be archived if it's horrendously out of date, even if it means we have no DoA build of our own posted. It's worse IMO to keep this in the Great and Meta sections. -Toraen (talk) 16:23, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Comparing the builds only, they're very similar with the EoE and an EE being out of place, otherwise they're the same.
 * Tactics / videos - fair point. - Chieftain Alex (talk) 17:37, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd rather see someone fix the few things that are off than to delete this build. --Krschkr (talk) 11:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)