Archive talk:A/any Shattering Assault

Remove HotO and it's hot. Napalm Flame  ^_^ (talk)·(contributions) 01:30, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

We already have something exactly like this. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 01:31, 11 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Uh... where? Search shows some shattering assault builds, mostly very different from this. --Edru viransu 01:38, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Agreed, it's pretty unique. Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)·(contributions) 01:39, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

This is similar to the first Shattering Assault build I came up with. I used Expose + Shadow Walk + Black Mantis Thrust to snare, then the same chain as yours. Expose + a highly repeatable Wild Strike + Shattering = target's complete loss of defenses = GG. Energy is a big problem with Shattering builds like this. I'd suggest replacing HotO with Critical Strike to get some energy management. With Critical Strike in there, I'd say this would be my new favorite Shattering build. - Insidious420 23:36, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

I'd like to see SB somewhere in this, it really lets shattering assault shine. Wyvern 04:00, 20 July 2007 (CEST)

Jungle Strike would work nice... i forget the rc on it tho &mdash; RAWR! Skakid9090  20:54, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * 10 recharge... too long for this build. Wild's definitely better with SA, especially since it helps get rid of defensive stances(with the help of expose) and it's way more spammable, which makes up for it doing 18 less +damage, in this build at least. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 20:59, 31 July 2007 (CEST)
 * ick 10 recharge, forget that. &mdash; RAWR! [[Image:Skasig.jpg|19px]] Skakid9090 21:00, 31 July 2007 (CEST)

Golden Fox Strike
Is not the only unconditional lead attack that activates an offhand. Maybe something like this?

With Mending Touch the optional, can be replaced with a snare. Attributes something like 12+1+1 dagger, 10+1 deadly, 7+1 critical (for two energy crits), and the rest in healing/prot/whatever. 68.92.61.185 20:48, 24 November 2007 (CET)


 * Bump because I feel this is important. Dancing Daggers has a longer range than Golden Fox Strike, meaning you can lead attack several people and then have the freedom to pick and choose which defense to break. It also has a similar recharge, goes through RoF and under most other prots. You also don't need a secondary to enchant yourself, freeing up room for survival. Since this build is intended to spread deep wound and remove defenses, I think Dancing Daggers is a superior choice. But that's just me. Benjamin 15:10, 1 January 2008 (EST) (Forgot to sign, my bad.)
 * Extremely low damage, longer recharge. Only advanatage would be no need for enchantment, but that's minimal at best. [[Image:Shogunshen_Sig.jpg|19px]] Shen (contribs) 15:11, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * Especially since you can run Assassin's Remedy for enchant(and I updated the build to do that, because Aura of Thorns was really just a placeholder until a good enchant for it could be found, and remedy ownzzz). --Edru viransu //QQ about me /sysop 15:16, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * When I posted that, assassins remedy was not up. Assassins remedy is an improvement, but I still feel the dependency on an enchantment is this build's weakness. (Directed to Shogunshen)-The damage loss, I feel, is unimportant as this build is not intended to do damage. In exchange for unnecessary damage you gain self-survivability and the freedom to switch targets a bit faster. My bar may not accomplish it well, but that is the idea I'm getting at; something other than golden fox strike. Benjamin 15:19, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * You said this isn't a damage build. Stop while you're ahead. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  15:21, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * This build is intended for damage. It also removes enchants, but saying it's not intended for damage is like saying Grenth dervs weren't. --Edru viransu //QQ about me /sysop 15:22, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Update
After the recent buff, wild strike is unblockable. It's therefore possible to perform an unblockable 4s recharge combo with shattering assault, which imo is what this build should focus on. Golden fox strike -> Wild strike -> Shattering assault. There are many options for the remaining slots, here's an example bar:

I suggest editing the build to include golden fox strike and wild strike as well as an "optional" slot. Owoc 19:06, 18 August 2007 (CEST)
 * What's a good enchant for golden fox that doesn't take much attribute investment? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 23:43, 19 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Either a conjure (but then you lose mending touch and zealous), the new way of perf, aura of thorns, etc –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 00:10, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * heart of holy flame? bypass +armor while retaining zealous –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 00:11, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Hmm... Aura of Thorns is sounding really attractive, 30 sec duration with no investment, also a snare, 5e, only 3/4 activation, and 12 recharge. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 00:18, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I would use the new Featherfoot Grace with an 8 point investment. Tycn 13:10, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * 10 energy every 15 seconds... :/ Shattering Assault's already pretty costly. Besides, I'd have to drop Dagger to 12 and crit to 13 to do that. Speaking of which, I think I'm going to switch around dagger and critical. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 14:09, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

How about Attacker's Insight for the enchantment requirement? Just a thought. Chewbacca Defence  _  16:18, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * That means only one unblockable golden fox every 15 seconds, and it's a bit investment-heavy. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 23:25, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

Who runs this in GvG? JW... - <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman    02:06, 23 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Don't know if anyone does, but it's almost like a less damaging grenth, but without downtime. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 02:08, 23 August 2007 (CEST)

Kinda fun, of course, no DW. Risim 21:25, 23 August 2007 (CEST)

I'd go for Vital Boon for the (minor) +health and the heal when it ends. Or Vigorous Spirit and Mending Touch, this will provide a slight, but at least existing heal and condition removal. You don't need to spend any points in healing prayers or protection prayers but you still get the condition removal and the health when you hit. And as you will keep on spamming out the skills as often as possible the health you get back should be decent. Not enough for a full heal, but it's better than nothing. Vigorous is a cheap enchantment that's much better than Aura of Thorns, even without anything spent in it. -- Marre 20:09, 27 August 2007 (CEST)<>
 * snare –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 01:03, 28 August 2007 (CEST)

A 4 seconds cripple is better than self heal? The short cripple won't be to much help in any kind of fight. The only thing that it will help is as a cheap and long lasting enchantment. Considering that Vigorous gives you health every time you attack, last for 30 seconds and is cheap and will be able to be recasted fast if rendered. I think Vigorous sounds better

You also still have a optional slot in which you can place Siphon Speed. With Siphon Speed you won't need Dash. Dash has longer recharge time, less time when it works and if you're trying to chase down an enemy Siphon Speed will provide more help as you will move around twice as fast as your target. In the optional slot we can then place Impale and then you will have health when attacking, anti-kiting, condition removal and deep wound. I would say that it's much better than the original build.Marre 20:48, 2 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Needs more dash. Dash is better than Siphon Speed as a speed boost. Siphon Speed will usually just get removed. Mending Touch ownzzz, but outside of RA, that's what your monks and your draw are for. Vigorous Spirit is, quite simply useless. I'd rather use Shadow Refuge as my only self-heal. Tbh, Shadow Refuge wouldn't even be that unwieldy as an enchant for golden fox unless you were fighting a bunch of blocking stances or an SoD monk with way too much energy. It also lacks the room for Crit Strike/HotO. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 21:08, 3 September 2007 (CEST)

I think assassin's remedy would make a pretty good enchantment, and maybe sharpen daggers for the optional slot? --Vinnie 20:39, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I agree that condition removal would rock. But it is hard to get in and get a reliable enchantment for the combo to work. The damage output is still low and energy a major concern. But I suggest VITAL BOON as enchantment for this build, combined with Siphon Speed as Snare and Death's Charge as Shadowstep. Attribute spreads would have to be reworked. The cool thing is once you got your combo off, stances and enchantments are killed, the guy cannot run away anymore. This is my suggestion. It also gives some minor healing and a health boost. Death's Charge can be replaced by a Rez outside of AB. --Longasc 12:22, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Suggested build:
 * This is not AB imo, death's charge is baed. Rly. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  15:55, 21 November 2007 (CET)
 * Death's Charge is good, but for spiking, which this build doesn't do. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 16:33, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Aura of Thorns
Consider dropping Aura of Thorns for Balthazar's Rage or Zealous Renewal for energy or health regen, if you don't want to be monk secondary. Balthazar's is good if you feel you need more healing and Zealous for energy management. Marre 11:30, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * gw:snare, just go crit strike if you need more energy management. Balth's rage sucks, even more so with D secondary. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 14:56, 2 September 2007 (CEST)

A four second cripple is better? Ah well, I forgot to check the energy cost, and they cost 10 energy both. So I change my mind, they suck. Too energy heavy.Marre 20:48, 2 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Regardless, four second cripple is better. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 21:51, 2 September 2007 (CEST)

Well Ichigo, check out the build I posted above. Tell me what you think is wrong about it. And please say something constructive. Marre 14:25, 3 September 2007 (CEST)


 * snare –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 22:26, 3 September 2007 (CEST)

Why not run something like this:

Golden lotus should be able to go through since wild+shatter should remove most defenses. Conjure lasts longer than aura of thorns and contributes to more damage. the rune will have to be changed, no deadly arts but +1 more for dagger mastery, and the attributes will have to be modified. liangliz 19:38 GMT-5, 3 September 2007
 * Conjure may be a decent idea, but I don't really have the time atm to play around with the attribs and stuff. Why would you run storm djinn's haste, btw? Why not just dash? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 01:41, 4 September 2007 (CEST)

backup enchantment incase there is enchant removal, running skill, and cover enchantment all compounded into one skill. liangliz 22:22 GMT-5, 3 September 2007
 * Thanks for reminding me of one advantage of Aura of Thorns, namely that you don't need a cover enchant because it's quick-recharging. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 05:07, 4 September 2007 (CEST)

Ichigo, if you use Siphon Speed it's a snare in itself. Could you explain what the hell you mean? You'll be moving twice as fast as your target, isn't that snare enough? Add to that that it can be upkept forever. Additionally Vigorous has a 4 second recharge! Aura of thorns on the other hand has 12! 3 times as long.
 * You posted 2 bars above. Regardless, this has another utility slot. Vigorous sucks. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 07:34, 4 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Lulz, just read the variants: "Replace Aura of Thorns with a different enchantment.", discussion over. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 07:37, 4 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Consider that when I design builds I mainly do it for Random Arena because I usually don't play any other arena.


 * I will stop discussing after this build. Just one final attempt. This is just a variant of my other build. I would still claim that that build is still stronger. Vigorous Spirit can be replaced with any build of your choice, I don't care what you choose there. I still think Siphon Speed is better than crippling dagger as hex removal tends to be more uncommon than condition removal. The build got dash, cripple, enchant (which can be recast much more often than Aura of Thorns, 4 seconds recharge!). I believe this build got much more potential than the other build. Oh well, I give up trying to come up with new ideas now, it's clearly not very appreciated.
 * The thing is, vigorous spirit kinda sucks. It doesn't do anything useful. It gives a minor heal when you're attacking(i.e., kiting not only weakens your damage, but also destroys your self-healing, if you're using it for a heal). --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 23:05, 4 September 2007 (CEST)

Changed to A/Mo
Hol veil plus mending touch is very nice :) &mdash; Skuld 14:11, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * reverted... lawl--Vinnie 14:40, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Veil Bonding is a great addition to a build that already has energy issues. :P --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 18:27, 15 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I have enough energy issues running this with an extremely long-duration Enchantment like Way of Perfection. I can't even begin to imagine it running with only 3 pips. - Vermain 17:59, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * /agree. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:18, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Soo... I guess I'll revert again =d --Vinnie 20:32, 16 September 2007 (CEST)

With Shadow Walk
[build prof=A/D dag=10+1+1 dead=6+1 cri=12+1 earthp=6][Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Shattering Assault][Impale][Siphon Speed][Shadow Walk][Vital Boon][Dash][/build]

It is designed for AB only. It snares and destroys running stances, enchants or annoying things like sliver armor or aura of the leech. In pure damage it is still lacking, but this was never the idea behind the build. --Longasc 15:33, 1 October 2007 (CEST)

With a SoH/JI Smiter this is sex. Swiftslash \\  (<font color="Black">contributions  * warrior guide ) 15:49, 3 October 2007 (CEST)

Rawr
[build prof=A/D dag=11+1+1 cri=12+1 deadly=6+1][Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Shattering Assault][Impale][Critical Eye][Zealous Renewal][Siphon Speed][Resurrection Signet][/build]

— Skakid9090 04:10, 17 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Ew... zealous renewal. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 04:21, 17 October 2007 (CEST)
 * You're spamming a dual attack and getting lots of double-strikes. I like it better than a 4 second snare. — Skakid9090 04:26, 17 October 2007 (CEST)

I tryed this and it works very nicely as you dont have to hope that you critical hit but it dosent have the condition remover.Lodgeinator 14:05, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Space
no deep wound, but ... [build prof=A/D critic=11+1+1 dagger=10+1 deadly=4+1 earthp=9][siphon speed][aura of thorns][golden fox strike][wild strike][critical strike][shattering assault][conviction][resurrection signet][/build] SpaceBiscuit 19:03, 29 October 2007 (CET)
 * Ew.. conviction, ew.. no dw. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 02:11, 30 October 2007 (CET)

How might this work with Rush replacing Dash and Bull's Strike somewhere in the bar? DW from Golden Fang, Shadow Refuge as the enchant. The enchantment for this build is only necessary occasionally. <font color="Black"> Shen (contribs) 21:52, 1 December 2007 (CET) Like this? I think if dropping Dash, it would be better to be running a bar like this:

Shock and Critical Eye are my favorite choices for the optional slot. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 15:20, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * Actually, I commented with HB use in mind, because hero behavior is pretty easy to exploit using Bull's. [[Image:Shogunshen_Sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black"> Shen (contribs) 15:29, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * In that case, here's the bar that I would suggest:

Golden Fang or Impale, either works. Impale is better spike. Golden Fang is better pressure. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 15:32, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Golden Fang Strike
Is superior in so many way to impale. At least list it as a variant if not change the standard build.--Goldenstar 21:58, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * It's blockable. Golden Fang Strike's better pressure than Impale, though, but this build already has incredible pressure. &mdash; Edru / QQ  22:00, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Many Problems
How can you hope to run a sin without a snare or IAS? Sure it may do damage, but all you really have to catch the enemy is dash, which is only 3 secs. Imo there are much better builds out there.<font color="Blue">♪Destiny Of Kiest♪ (<font color="Darkblue">talk / pvxcontribs ) 20:16, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * Dash is fine. You could use Siphon Speed, but its clunkier than Dash. -<font color="Black">Shen 20:27, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * Siphon has much more utility tbh. Them moving slower and you moving faster 100% of the time is better than you moving faster 3 out of 8 seconds. Siphon doesn't even take much spec (leftovers + minor rune usually make it maintainable). - Auron 06:19, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Can also be removed alot easier. Either is gud, but IMO dash should be standard and not ss. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 06:42, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Right, because it being removed is a huge problem. 5r, remember? - Auron 07:15, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * And, more importantly, most hex removal is 12r. - Auron 07:16, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * And... additionally... it'll make a bad monk spend his hex removal for siphon and leave a more powerful hex on for its full duration. It's a win-win scenario. Low recharge hexes don't have the whole "omg hex removal" drawback, it actually is more of a benefit :) (Triple-posting ftw btw) - Auron 07:35, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Veiling makes this a 2sec cast though, which hurts if you have to keep reapping. Just saying both works, but Dash should stay standard IMO. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 08:44, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Who on earth maintains a veil through more than one siphon? Either they're running super low on energy or your team is bad at damage. Dash is not a good skill; it's decent, at best. Siphon simply has more to gain and less to lose, especially in a build that doesn't require the hex staying on in the first place.
 * Seriously, consider it; if they're stopping to remove the hex, you've snared them for long enough to complete your combo. Was that not the entire point of bringing it in the first place? Trying to Dash into someone usually gets you one or maybe two attack skills off and then you have to run around some more to catch up. - Auron 09:58, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Shrug. So change it. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:24, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Monk Variant
[build prof=a/mo critcal=11+1+1 dagger=10+1 dead=7+1 heal=7 prot=3][dancing daggers][wild strike][shattering assault][siphon speed][optional][mending touch][restful breeze][resurrection signet][/build]

Elementalist Variant
[build prof=a/e crit=12+1 dagger=10+1+1 air=8][golden phoenix strike][wild strike][shattering assault][impale][critical eye][storm djinn's haste][conjure lightning][resurrection signet][/build]

Dervish Variant
[build prof=a/e crit=11+1+1 dagg=10+1 deadl=8+1 ear=6][golden phoenix strike][wild strike][shattering assault][impale][critical eye][siphon speed][aura of thorns][resurrection signet][/build]

And so on?--Relyk 11:56, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Ugh, no. The point of the build is to maintain a constant chain of unblockable, enchantment-removing attack skills. The monk variant is just totally weird with Dancing Daggers as your lead (too much attribute spread), and most people run this version anyways. Smooths 21:46, 16 February 2008 (EST)
 * You realize they had the A/D one here forever, so I doubt the would run the A/any version when it was changed only awhile ago.--Relyk 22:47, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Archived
Siphon was hit pretty hard. Now this build has no snare. If it doesnt have a snare it will be archived<font color="goldenrod" face="arial bold">←Crossfire Is Buff 19:13, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Not like there aren't other snare/speed boost options(crippling dagger, bull's, rush, dash, etc.). Not sure what would be best, though. &mdash; Edru / QQ  23:39, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Scorpion Wire!!!! It isn't quite a snare, but it'll help you manage kiting opponents. -Mike 23:41, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * I'd go with Crip Dagger or Rush. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  23:48, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Rush is great, cripdagger is somewhat meh. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 09:48, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * A ranged snare with 5 second recharge that does damage is meh? Selket Shadowdancer 10:13, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * No, but a ranged snare with 30 seconds is.[[Image:Styxx_HL.jpg|19px]] Frans  10:26, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * I was talking about Crippling Dagger. Unless that has been nerfed too. It's already got pointsinto Deadly Arts for Impale, taking Criplling Dagger won't hurt the build at all. Selket Shadowdancer 10:30, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * Is conditional. Also crippled will often be instaremoved. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 10:51, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * Conditional? No more so than Siphon Speed was, they were both half range. Scratch that, has to hit a moving foe. Though with the short recharge I can't see this being a problem in the hands of a skilled player. Condition might be removed but it's easily reappliable with the 5 second recharge. Selket Shadowdancer 10:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * An IMS is better IMO. + Snares can be brought on water ellys, cripanthems, w/e. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:08, 7 March 2008 (EST)

(Resetting indent)The thing is, Siphon Speed served as both, and I'll be crying over it for a while. XD -Mike 11:10, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * Needs new snare or this will be archived[[image:Stoneflesh Aura.jpg‎|21px]]<font color="goldenrod" face="arial bold">←Crossfire Is Buff 15:48, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * It got vetted with dash tbh. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 16:12, 7 March 2008 (EST)
 * But then it had cripple in the main bar too. God  box   07:56, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
 * At one point it was A/any with dash over siphon. It works just fine with dash tbh. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:43, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Wat about the issue of no self-heal in RA? U cant always rely on a monk being there. I died pretty quickly in RA cause no heal, and vampiric daggers cant make up for that :P  I  Am    *  Jebus  *  20:44, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Restful breeze is a cheap self-heal. You could try using a Vigorous Spirit and Live Vicariously combination, or just spend some points in Shadow Arts. -Mike 20:59, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Vig spirit works well for enchant if you must have a self heal. It's cheap, lasts long and works well with dual attacks and double strikes. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 15:40, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Counters
"Standard melee counters, excluding blocking, enchantments, stances, and blind." Lol that's like 90% of the "Standard melee counters", perhaps directly state what works (ie. change it to Anti-melee hexes, etc) --206.116.1.89 19:16, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Fixed. --71.229 19:18, 7 April 2008 (EDT)


 * Meh, the most roxxor assassin build, and yet its perfectly balanced due to Inability to instagib... --<font color="Black"> Super Igor  19:23, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Assassin's Remedy nerf
The recent skill update raised the cost of assassin's remedy to 10 energy. What now? 68.231.12.44 18:56, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
 * You look at the top of any page on the site and read the note where it says the update is temporary. --71.229 18:57, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah. But it still pisses me off. I use this build for GvG ganking and we are doing some tonight. 68.231.12.44 19:45, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I dunno, then. Run Sight Beyond Sight? --71.229.204.25 20:21, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It's not that expensive, just put it on when you know you'll be blinded/crippled. 201.174.207.192 13:10, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * You can use Sight Beyond Sight, but the nerf is only temporary, anyway. -Mike 17:22, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

GvG Tag Maybe?
I often use this build for splitting purposes in GvG, however when I use it for that, I replace assassin's remedy with Critical Defenses. -Jeans 68.231.12.44 13:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

revert
i reverted the change to twisting fangs. impale is better here--5 energy cheaper on a build that, frankly, runs into energy problems, AND is spell-range AND maintains the "unblockable" idea. also, if you're going to edit a build, do it right and remove attributes that you removed all the skills for.--Reason.decrystallized 00:26, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

UGH! Fck this build! I hate it so much! It's too good against monks. >:(--204.10.216.2 17:16, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You need moar wtfpwnage to defend against this. That's one of the few viable options to counter this as a Monk. XD -Mike 17:24, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Featured?
Uhhh, wasn't this already featured? Why is it back up there?72.141.203.119 18:46, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Here, http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Covenantway

Dont feature that. <font color="MediumVioletRed">En<font color="OrangeRed">j <font color="OrangeRed">oy  <font color="#D70000"> phailer! 07:50, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

PVP Skills Update
I don't think making assassin's remedy being increased by 5 energy is going to ruin the build. It's only a little energy for a skill not important within the attack chain. -- (TALK) 22:44, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * We could add Sight Beyond Sight to Variants, but I'm sure everyone will be fine with Assassin's Remedy. -Mike 16:44, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Rush
should be on the Main bar to conserve energy, imo. -Mike 17:46, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

Note Added about 'Noob' Arena use
I added the note stating how it can be changed with the substitution of Nine Tails Strike. It can be used for the same effect and since enchantments arent as much of a problem in those Arenas I thought it was suitable. It still works wonders against Rangers/Warriors blockin'. Feel free to remove this note, although its just a small addition that brings some attention to these under-appreciated arenas, IMO. (Not sure how to go about adding my tag or exact time, sry)I thought this was a good addition, feel free to tell me if it isnt', I'm new to the editing business. I dont personally find the 8s recharge time of NTS to be a big factor. Although it isnt as good at pressuring, should the note be removed because of NTS's suckzor recharge? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.177.121.62 (contribs).
 * We don't do lowlevel arena's. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:59, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Ok, s'all good. May I ask why though? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.177.121.62 (contribs).
 * See PvX:WELL. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 09:36, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
 * To further explain: we try to provide the best builds possible, and removing the Elite would be compromising the build's effectiveness. I don't particularly care if the note is included or not, but I don't find it that useful either, because I've never done any of those arenas. It doesn't take much to reach level 20, making those arenas inaccessible, and any notes/builds directed toward them, meaningless. ــмıкε  нaшк  09:41, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

Lots of Deaths
I find the lack of self healing and defence in this build makes it a big downer, and I always die.
 * Shadow Refuge and Critical Defenses are mentioned under the bar, but plenty of builds run without heals, even in RA when you only get a Monk every 4 games. Just hope for some support, change up the bar or run another build. ــмıкε  нaшк  01:11, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

Shattering Vs. Shadow Form
would you still be able to hit some one running a SF build with this build??? 89.240.196.106 17:14, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
 * No.  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 17:14, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
 * To explain, Shattering Assault needs to hit to remove enchantments, and SF causes foes to miss with ALL attacks. ــмıкε  нaшк  17:15, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
 * It's not like it matters. No one good runs Shadow Form in PvP, and no one with a quarter of their brain would run it now that it deals 50% less damage. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 17:17, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Archive
Personally, I don't think the Shield Bash meta is quite so nasty as to completely destroy this build, especially considering it's possible for Shield Bash to leave the meta (again?) and bring this right back up. The ability to rip through the also-common Frenzied Defense Monks, and destroy the ever-popular Melendru's Resilience Monks, should make up for Shield Bash (which, to be fair, only shuts down the chain for about nineteen seconds if you get hit by it, and it loses it's usefulness as a surprise tactic once you know it's there). I know Shield Bash is nasty, but simply because it's common right now is really a reason to archive? (Especially considering, with that logic, we should archive every 'Sin build with an attack chain in RA/TA categories.) /twocents. --<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  04:30, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, the thing is, these guys have pretty ass pressure anyway and can pretty much be overcome by kiting + Patient Spirit. When I used to monk RA/TA I never had much problem with them, the WS assassins were a much bigger threat. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 04:42, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't archive this, a shield bash monk only comes around in TA mostly. I RARELY ever see one in RA. And besides, all you have to do is switch targets when shield bash is activated. Not that hard. Should not be archived. Avatar Kuzon 12:09, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Ok fine, I just remove TA tag and people can be retards in RA all they want. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 12:26, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Lol archive shattering assault-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 08:44, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Archive... no one ever uses this build any more. Its damage is too low, it pointless if your enchants get striped since guadian will block your lead, and it often has energy issues now that we know assasins remedy was a permanent nerf.(Timcago 00:19, 23 November 2008 (EST))


 * On the same note, a Monk can easily put Guardian on you to trigger your unblockable chain. I don't think it's worth archiving this just yet, it still works. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  01:57, 24 November 2008 (EST)

Better?
[build prof=A/W dag=12+1+1 cri=12+1][Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Shattering Assault][Golden Fang Strike][Assassin's Remedy][Resurrection Signet][Bull's Strike][Rush][/build] Whoops, forgot to sign when I put the bar up. - insidious  420  19:32, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
 * bull's is sexy, but you kinda need dw.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  06:19, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * though i would definitely put in Rush over Dash on the main bar here.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  06:20, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * U rly need crit eye tbh -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 06:22, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * yeah that too. gah i'm tired, i missed Golden Fang. but impale > golden fang for a build that strives to be unblockable.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  06:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * TBH, I've never used Crit Eye when I run Shat Assault, only once in GvG. Zealous dags @ 13 crit is usually enough for steady output for me in RA/TA.  And I could've sworn Rush was already on the main bar awhile back.... -  insidious  420  19:32, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Critical Eye is really nice if you plan to be spamming every attack skill on recharge, but the energy generally works out without it, I've found.
 * I think Rush was just a main variant, since this build is A/any. It was originally a A/D with Aura of Thorns as well, I think (that may have just been another build that got merged, however). --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  09:02, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It was, but it sucked. AR is a way better enchant. Also it allows for Rush which is awesome for pressure builds like this. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 10:34, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I use:


 * You can swap Impale for > Sight Beyond Sight < if you find blind to be too much of a problem since landing your attacks is vital to e-management in this particular build. Remember to bring an enchantment +20% for it, too. --Ulterion 17:02, 19 November 2008 (EST)
 * No. you cannot swap DW.  there can be no compromises on this point.  also: WoA sucks.  and on top of that you're talking about tossing in a 10e, 10r skill onto a build that already has energy issues?  also no.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  21:10, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * Okay, well then explain to me why I'm able to completely maintain it throughout the match? It boosts dps, e-gain and helps prevent being interrupt by rangers that like to catch this chain (w/o WoA). Only problems are those standard anti-melee hexes and enough blind (which is why I suggested Sight Beyond Sight). --Ulterion 21:17, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * If you're going to use an IAS, use Flail or FLurry, tbh, because you'll have Dash or Rush as a cancel. ــмıкε  нaшк  21:19, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * because you don't use the chain enough.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  06:58, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * How you gonna use flail if you have no 'knockdown' to trap your foe in it? Flurry sucks balls (lowers dmg output). I'd rather use frenzy/dash than any of the above mentioned. It's w/e.. I use WoA, you don't. Think what you wish, WoA rules. --Ulterion 11:29, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * There is no way you can use that combo on recharge (20 energy every 4/5 seconds) while maintaining WoA (10 energy every 10 seconds) while using dash as well, either your not using you chain enough or your a fibber. [[Image:Lolsiglol.jpg|88px19px]] 11:35, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * I can use it upon recharging so long as I'm landing dagger strikes. Dash helps me get to them and SBS let's me hit through blind. The only things stopping me are snares of any kind, or standard anti-melee hexes and/or spells. Then again, what melee can counter everything? None! WoA is viable for me and I will continue to use it for my IAS over flail/frenzy/flurry all day, any day. --Ulterion 14:49, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * You don't even need an IAS for SA sins, and the bar you posted has no SBS, infact no Enchantment to guarentee unblockablity. --<font color="Black">F rosty 15:16, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * and no assassin's remedy to get rid of blind. what are you going to drop to pick it up?  you DW?  that's lol.  dash?  yeah, so that the build can be countered with ASDW.  critical eye?  just try it.  and as for it being viable for you, you know what?  no one's telling you how to play.  but being as how it's a wiki that seeks to provide the BEST alternatives, then blowing a skill slot on an expensive, crappy, and unneeded IAS will NOT get vetted.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  18:55, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * let me clarify: the build as stands is blind immune and completely unblockable. that is one of the main reasons that it's good.  the build you propose is neither, therefore not as good.  and what do you gain by surrendering that?  energy issues and ATTACKING SLIGHTLY FASTER.  are a few more auto-attacks worth stopping to recast every ten seconds, worth the energy cost, worth giving up blind immunity and total unblockability?  no.  no, it is categorically not.  i hope that clears things up.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  19:01, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Stop failing at reading. Here, let me embolden the alternative I had up there from the get-go. It even has arrows pointing to it. You'll bypass blind over 1/2 the time with Sight Beyond Sight (enchantment btw.. meant for you to use just before hitting with golden fox strike). Activate it once blinded, or as you start one cycle/chain. Be keen enough to see ahead when a blinder's going to use blind on you. Problem solved! --Ulterion 18:27, 25 November 2008 (EST)
 * Too bad you can only keep it up half the time and it uses up your second profession and you won't remove weakness or any other conditions-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 18:40, 25 November 2008 (EST)
 * SBS is a shitty alternative to AR--only half coverage and no getting rid of other conditions. and, if you'll recall my earlier statement: "what are you going to drop to pick it up?  you DW?  that's lol.  dash?  yeah, so that the build can be countered with ASDW.  critical eye?  just try it."  stop failing at reading rofl.  ur funny.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized    I frenzy-healsig.  18:52, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Archive... no one ever uses this build any more. Its damage is too low, it pointless if your enchants get striped since guadian will block your lead, and it often has energy issues now that we know assasins remedy was a permanent nerf.(Timcago 00:19, 23 November 2008 (EST))
 * The damage is extremely high, and if you are worried about enchantment removal you can bring Storm Djinn's Haste to cover Sin's Remedy. Assassin's Remedy nerf to 10 energy is barely cause for attention.-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 18:33, 25 November 2008 (EST)
 * ur spamming a 20e chain on 4r and whining about a 20r skill being bumped to 10e? lol.-- reason ' . ' decrystallized   I frenzy-healsig.  18:52, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Archive, again
I haven't seen these being used for a looooooonnnngggg time, tbh. ــмıкε нaшк  10:28, 27 December 2008 (EST)
 * They come extremely in handy when fighting raptors in pve. Selket Shadowdancer 11:26, 27 December 2008 (EST)
 * We do have a PvE version. Anyway, it works decently well for RA, but so does most any Assassin build. No one really used this since Covenantway got nerfed/fell out of meta and Shield Bash became big. -- 11:28, 27 December 2008 (EST)
 * Actually in the current block meta, these can be effective.--70.118.200.82 21:29, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Remove from archive
Shield bash is not that prevalent, this build does consistent dps in arenas as well as trash other builds that require enchantments. Also in the current meta it can break R/A escape sins, this has to be brought back.Howlinghobo 14:39, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * ups, shield bash is more prevalent now because it's stupid easy to shutdown a R/A. Hit it's offhand attack and you're done.--66.192.104.13 14:50, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * No doubt shield bash will become more prevalent as R/A becomes more popular, but the second point still stands. Not to mention that shield bash screws any assassin build, so its completely invalid that this one is archived because of it. Maybe I should archive dev hammer builds because its countered by anti-melee hexes.Howlinghobo 06:31, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

I can has SA Sin nao?
This is my 4v4 Random Arenas Variant, but feel free to change it around to feed the need for ya'lls format [i.e.: HA/GvG/AB/etc.]. --BlazingBurdy 04:32, March 13, 2010 (UTC)