Archive talk:Mo/any WoH Arena Monk

tbh
after amity getting boring because of bad teammates, i tried out full redbar and it's completely mindless. i got anally fucked by an incredibly strong ranger one time, but other than that it's strong bar. for perspective, i used to run full prot almost exclusively, and several people on this site can attest to that. danny approves mindless redbar. ···  Danny So Cute   05:57, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * hey its top 10 approved, 5-5 go. Gringo 05:59, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was gonna write it up, but I cba making a monk page. -- Big McStrongfist  06:26, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * i was being sarcastic (internet :. how do you end a parenthetical expression with an emote. Gringo 06:34, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * ya but lolpvx, and lolgw. might as well, or post a variant bar on the page. -- Big McStrongfist  06:43, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * i honestly wouldn't, most people that come to pvx are going to die without deep wound removal/prots. they want a starter bar, and this suits most of those kinds of people perfectly. we can just put in a variant (could just use a mini skill bar) with pure healing, a new page would be silly billy. Gringo 07:00, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * that's what I was inferring you whore. Well...I mean it started an epic debate, and I see where Zurie is coming from. All in all, however, I'd have to bring guardian or some kind of prot. RtL + shock and meteor falling on you sounds DDDDDDDDD: worthy. -- Big McStrongfist  07:29, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * lp bala stance/dolyak. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 09:50, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * So war can rush and rupt you-- X 10:58, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just kite all day and WoH every now and thennnnnnnnnnnn. Should work fair enough, and you still have stances or w/e. -- Chaos  -- 11:27, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * hard to kite with dolyak-- X 12:15, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * LP Shield Bash/Disciplined/Bonetti's, you go /w for a reason... --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 12:51, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, just bring Shield Stance if you're really that terrible. ···  Danny So Cute   22:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * what's the war gonna use to rupt? his .89 second activation Disrupting Chop? just don't get quartered after Shock and you're golden. ···  Danny So Cute   22:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I personally suggest putting a full heal page up somewhere else. I often run the bar zurie pinged (i take dolyak + veil over rejuv + shield bash but that's just pref). Many many many 25 consecs.--TahiriVeila 15:09, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also: disciples insigs + q7 AL 15 shield + Armor +10 vs fire + Amrmor +7 vs ele spear + dolyak is fucking hilarious. Rodgorts does like 60 damage at a 16 spec--TahiriVeila 15:10, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anchorite's is better. Same +AL as Disciple's but easier to meet conditions. ···  Danny So Cute   22:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

So, to recap, people said "your build is bad" without any idea as to how and why the build works so well. A couple days later, after having actually played it, people are not only saying the build is great but are also saying they've played the build before and are not at all surprised with how effective it is. Gotchya. Zuranthium 12:48, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol after just follwing this the past week, that seems about right  Akio  _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 17:02, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who said the build is bad, exactly? ···  Danny So Cute   18:00, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, besides Angelus. But Angelus hasn't said it's good. Neither has the IP who said it was bad. ···  Danny So Cute   18:01, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * meh, never really said its bad, but id still rather have fucking guardian + SH -- Ang el us 19:59, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah but that's the point. If you think you should have prot you don't understand why the pure healing build is superior. No amount of profanity on your part will change that. Zuranthium 02:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bad choice of word, Superior implies one is obviously inferior, while a more correct way to put it is the pure healing fits a different playing style. its not really anything about superior/inferior, just two ways to play the same goal. Yes one can be better at just healing, but the other is better at providing protection as well. agian, playing styles.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 02:51, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * theyre two diff builds run two diff ways, nothing is superior because they are different. youre real annoying, but ill shut up because e-drama is lulz -- Ang el us 03:59, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Given how stupidly easy it is to run the healing bar, I'm tempted to agree that it is technically superior. A good prot will almost always be better than a redbar of equal skill, but no one who still plays gw is a good prot. That effectively neuters any argument about the prot being better. Not to mention, neither build has abilities that strongly outweigh the other. The prot bar can easily prevent the amount of damage the redbar bar can heal, but given that you could literally play off of just your party bar when running pure redbar, the ease-of-use becomes most important. ···  Danny So Cute   04:57, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah...that's where you're wrong. It doesn't matter how good you are with Prot. It is simply inferior to pure Healing. On average in RA, a single cast of Guardian will not prevent more damage over time than a single cast of Vigorous Spirit or WoH. When you add in to the mix that Vigorous Spirit is also a 1/4 cast and therefore has an incredibly lower chance of being interrupted, it makes the pure heal bar clearly better. Zuranthium 05:37, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pure healing isn't better then prot/heal hybrid, it all depends upon your skill. Try holding against a good warrior and a ranger and you'll see - without prots your squishy teammates will be easily spiked which is immpossible if you go hybrid, you jus can't keep healing for long through DW and bulls. Dino Dave 09:32, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I monked in RA yesterday, I ended up just redbarring through everything they cast at me. I pretty much never used Guardian, because casting WoH for 200hp actually does heal more for what Guardian will prevent. Guardian had its uses, but I would well have managed without. And well, stances are the answer to rangers/wars. Fooling a Bull's is also not that hard. -- Chaos  -- 10:08, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Sup guys, Guardian has been pretty meh 4v4 for ages. In case you have forgotten, no one was running it in TA any more before they shut it down. I haven't run the exact bar Zuranthium is talking about, but I know it is rock solid and people arguing against it for shitter reasons are shitters. Draw is fine, double hex removals is nice but I haven't actually found that many hex heavy teams, Vigorous Spirit is absolutely fucking amazing. If your complaint was no Guardian or Shielding Hands, you are bad. I admit that I like Shielding Hands for those times you have some clusterfucking frontlining elementalist, but rather than struggling through to win with him over and over, you might as well let him die and get a new team. Last time I RA monked the major problem was finding 3 people who could actually kill one of the enemy team before I wanted to rip my own eyes out. <font color="#A55858">Misery  10:26, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * So what do you do when your dumbass Derv or War (Ele in your case) gets KD locked? Won't guardian help that situtation?  Everytimg I have RA'd there was always a KD (or some ver) locker.  Hands is so useful.  Besides there is always WoH to maintain red bar...no need for extra health skills.  Admit it...finding a good team in RA is as easy as finding a virgin after prom night.--<font color="#b22222"> X  11:06, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Refer to my comment below. -- Chaos  -- 11:10, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * @ Misery, the reason that guardian was being replaced in TA was because of the ability to plan builds beforehand. TA had builds in it that would never work in RA on their own, and vice- versa.  When you know you're going to have 2 ele's with distortion, and a necro spamming faint, you don't need guardian.  If someone just writes up a pure healing build, it can get vetted, and the argument will end. 128.208.115.71 18:05, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * It actually also had a lot to do with it being rupt/rip bait. But yes, that's what I told Zuranthium to do, but it turns out he doesn't even actually care and people were retardedly arguing with themselves. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE. <font color="#A55858">Misery  21:18, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

It has to be mentioned
People, remember that you're bad at this game, and that some here aren't as bad. In other words, don't argue with better players. Lolelitism, anyone? -- Chaos  -- 10:08, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I think i fall under everyone here except a select few, not to breach NPA i willnot list names. er... name. can only think of one XD and thats good enough for me... i'm like a 6-7 on decentness QQ  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 15:36, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * No you're not. Everyone here is absolutely terrible, especially anyone who thinks they're better than the other people. It's cognitive fallacy at work. The only reason we know Zurrie's right is because people who aren't Zurrie run the bar. ···  Danny So Cute   15:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Because saying people are bad at the game will help make it better, Chaos. Really, for those of us that monk in RA EVERY day, Guardian, at least, is a must. Remember, just because you think you're good enough to call others bad, doesn't mean you actually are. 128.208.115.71 18:00, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay. -- Chaos  -- 18:10, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, so in thinking i'm not that great, therefore i'm only terrible, not especially terrible :D i do suck at monk though... nine's build is the only healer i can be successful at, just b/c mysticism covers the energy problem i have quite badly on healing builds. made a monk for the armor, so he's just for show really... dont expect to ever get anywhere with monking QQ  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 18:56, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Make a 40/40 set, a high energy set, a 40/20 prot set and a def set. High set and Bonetti's solves your energy issues. Practice. -- Chaos  -- 18:59, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * So you'd say always use bonetti's for now, til i get the hang of monking then could experiment with the other variants? guess that does make sense... kinda a slap in the face though... its a simple solution lol. atm i only have 4040 and def set. have either sieze or live for today, just need the other +15. hmm. might work on that soon.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   [[File:Akio_Katsuragi_Sig.jpg]] 19:04, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Some people go with offhand +15/-1 and a +5e spear, but it'll eventually get drained. Learn to use 4 sets, it's not that hard. -- Chaos  -- 21:21, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just camp Spear of Defense and tactics shield. keep vigorous up and use SoR on recharge. woh if someone drops below 50. and draw conditions a lot. that's pretty much it. ···  Danny So Cute   23:39, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I run this like this;


 * Bonnetti's or Balanced

I originally ran rejuv>div spirit, but with the last update it's impossible to keep up with hexes that way. Vig Spirit+Draw is usually enough to keep people alive. --Brandnew 13:51, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * both work and work well....preference. Prot work better in some cases and vice versa.  That's why it is RA.  No build can save a crap team.--<font color="#b22222"> X  14:38, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * prot is pretty much useless in RA in this meta. just take Draw Conditions and hope to god your team can kill things in a decent amount of time. ···  Danny So Cute    17:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Weapon Swapping for dummies, uhu ^.^ | My guide for awesome weapon swapping (edit: god im bad at making links...)Ocirne23 17:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

:/
If we're going to use generic fill-in-the-blank skill bars and pass them off as "great," we need to keep them updated. As Zuranthium has pointed out, at least two of the skills on the listed bar have fallen out of use. I haven't seen a Mo/A in arenas in ages either, so maybe we just need to nix that suggestion entirely.

Again, if the plan is to make a central build to prevent ten copies, keep it trimmed, polished and up-to-date. If we can't, we might as well submit builds one by one as the meta changes. - Auron 08:59, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well seeing as this is sort of a shift from the standard WoH + prots monk, maybe it should just be archived in place of a full heal monk to preserve it's stature. Maybe means an AB WoH monk needs to be made. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 13:14, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * /Agree -- Amor  [[Image:Accelerated_Growth.jpg|19px]] 13:53, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Still Viable
The build still works fine, and is still being run. It isn't inferior to the pure healing build, but it IS different. Unarchive? 128.208.115.71 17:48, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes please. And don't archive a page without discussing it on the said page. Makes ppl go frenzymode Ocirne23 17:50, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I still haven't seen a single credible source object archival. -- Chaos?  -- 23:35, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because guardian is all u need as a monk. Ocirne23 17:02, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol -- Chaos?  -- 17:08, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Funny how I know you never monked in arena's Ocirne23 17:12, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol -- Chaos?  -- 17:48, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * do you even play anymore? <font color="Lime"> «No <font color="Black"> Ѵit..« 17:52, May 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Apparently not lol Ocirne23 17:56, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You still are pretty incredibly shitty at this game, which Oskar has been trying to remind you of until he gave up because he finally realized you're autistic ;p -- Chaos?  -- 19:50, May 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hilarious sig ^__^ And no, but I used to monk quite much in RA, and was v good at it! RA doesn't change very much in just a few months. -- Chaos?  -- 19:50, May 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should unarchive it, but remove the RA tag? AB (and to a lesser extent CM) don't have a WoH build, and from the talk of the RA WoH build Frosty said to make an AB bar - but it would be easier to just unarchive this ;) --Wingsy 23:54, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would rather have this archived to symbolise the meta shifts in general monk bars. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 00:00, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which, now that there's a generic, universal build that shows how things have changed is now a viable option. Keep it archived Third Incarnate 15:53, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup, no need to unarchive it. Keep it here, thx for discussing (as I started this topic :P)128.208.115.71 04:01, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

but guys this is what the ra monk bot uses (kinda) ! ···  Danny So Cute    06:31, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Yea, unarchive this since this is actually what the meta is; not the utterly piss terrible "Hurrr it does redbar" build--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown">...And my Axe! 11:01, May 18, 2010 (UTC)