Build talk:E/Mo Ether Renewal Bonder

Open for discussion. Cheese Eater 17:23, 27 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Life Attunement > Divine Boon. --Guild of Deals * Wah Wah  Wah! * 17:24, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Ok. Cheese Eater 17:33, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
 * But wouldn't the ele have to maintain it on multiple allies? Cheese Eater 17:35, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
 * And also it would limit the damage output of your front liners which would be in need of most of the healing.(unless your group is horrible at pve) Cheese Eater 13:40, 30 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Frontline has more armor and thus shouldnt need increased healing? --84.24.206.123 13:50, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I've seen my share of bad front liners from a sin weapon switching between sword, hammer and axe a rit running in and using ancestor's rage and retribution with no armor on and various other horrible ideas thus i think they need healing, but in a good group they shouldn't so it depends on the noob level of the group. Cheese Eater 12:28, 1 July 2008 (EDT)


 * Well i took out Healing Ribbon for Life Attunement so energy shouldn't be a problem and there should be more healing. Cheese Eater 14:26, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

Divine boon is a waste without divine favor imho. I'm not too fond of life attunement either tbh. -- Sazzy  04:35, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah. Vigorous Spirit instead of those two. ~ ĐONT * SYSOP  06:15, 13 July 2008 (EDT)


 * So i should put in Vigorous Spirit and put Healing Ribbon back in. Ok, but i will put life attunement in variants. Cheese Eater 12:51, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I decided to put in Mindbender for a 1 second casting of Heal Party and to help it heal faster. Cheese Eater 13:02, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Possibly add Infuse Health, you are already being healed each time you cast, you might as well take advantage of the fact that IH heals an enormous amount. Veldy 22:12, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * ^ Infuse Health pwns (instead of one of the other heals). If you take Infuse, you'll turn out to be a better Healer than most monks, although you'll still lack prot. Spamming Jamei's Gaze/Heal Other doesn't make this worth taking over a Monk with BiP Support. ــмıкε  нaшк  22:41, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You'll also have to clean up the description, because the build is still being changed. ــмıкε  нaшк  22:43, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Heal other > Infuse in this case, imo.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 22:02, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't agree, because Heal Other (and Healing Ribbon) is just an okay heal without Divine Favor/Healer's Boon, and since you'll be spamming enough anyway, you'll regain the health lost from Infuse in no time. ــмıкε  нaшк  23:03, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The problem with unfuse is that the health gain from ER comes before the health loss, so if you use it at full you'll still be at ~1/2 hp after, and then hench will heal u wasting time and energy. --Thc 00:53, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
 * that said, infuse spammer is still fun and unparalleled in raw healing. Throw life attunement on yourself, AoR other enchants and you can spam and stay ~3/4 HP.  --Thc 00:55, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Anyone gonna vote on this?--[[Image:Cheese Eater Sig1.png|19px]] Eater 10:24, 14 September 2008 (EDT)
 * You should add a build template variant with which you can spam infuse health. It was there before the hack and i dont know how to do it so i post it here. I find actually the IH spam variant better than the mainbuild. And btw i would like to vote but i cant yet. Tibart 16:53, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Someone please vote on this.-- 我喜欢吃 Eater  11:30, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If you want to get votes on this build you should add it to the mainpage of pvxwiki. That way more people will notice it and maybe they vote. Hope you find an opportunity to add it to the mainpage:D. Tibart 16:06, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Anyone gonna vote? Been out for a while and no one has voted on this since the hack or whatever.-- 我喜欢吃 Eater  20:34, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd drop Healing Ribbon for Great Dwarf Weapon. Heal Party, Heal Other and Infuse Health are more than enough healing, imo. ــмıкε  нaшк  20:54, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

What the bar should be
Here's the bar posted by Ensign on gwg:


 * Ether Renewal
 * Glyph of Swiftness
 * Aura of Restoration
 * Protective Spirit
 * Spirit Bond
 * Infuse Health
 * Great Dwarf Weapon
 * Breath of the Great Dwarf


 * 11+2 Energy Storage
 * 3+1 Air Magic
 * 11 Protection Prayers
 * 8 Healing Prayers

If you ask me, you aren't going to get much better than that for an ER build. --Thc 23:55, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Also heroes are pretty terrible with ER. Actually try it out please. --Thc 00:00, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Micro it and Glyph of Swiftness, or just drop the Glyph for Heroes. This build is meant to be a healer, not a protter; that's what Build:E/Mo Ether Renewal Prot Hero is for. Spirit Bond and Protective Spirit are nice, but they're also counter-productive (I often play with less than 600 health in PvE), and prot can be put onto random bars, anyway. Protective Spirit doesn't need a high spec, anyway. Imo, just add Infuse Health to the variants of Build:E/Mo Ether Renewal Prot Hero. That change wasn't minor, and would likely have this build's votes wiped for it, so I'm reverting the edits for now. ــмıкε  нaшк  08:01, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
 * None of the skills require high spec, so it doesn't matter that prot is spec'ed to 11. Prot spirit/spirit bond is a powerful combo in PvE and still also has infuse health and a party heal every ~11 seconds.  So it can heal just as well as the current build.  (If you want a party-heal spammer there's already one on this wiki.)
 * Also, I didn't realize this build was in testing, so thanks for the revert, but the above build IS far superior to the current bar and (pretty much any other ER bar).   --Thc 15:16, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Tbh, Monk prots are overrated in PvE, and what makes this build good is spamming Heal Party and Infuse. If your team uses Orders (OoP+Dark Fury, usually), you can use Infuse Health followed by Heal Party and you'll be back to full health, so you can do it again. That's better healing than any Monk can provide without massive energy management (BiP) from outside sources. A hybrid between Prot and Healing isn't a bad idea, though, but Heal Party+Infuse Health can't be replaced. ــмıкε  нaшк  17:31, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Party healing is completely overrated on this build, when you can just infuse everyone in 7 seconds for the same health you would get by spamming heal party AND infuse for 7 seconds.
 * You do also have access to BoGD which is generally enough. If you do heroway, you have no imbagon and a hybrid is obviously better.  The prot spirit/bond combo really is quite good.  I didn't believe it either until I started paying attention when I spammed.  Also If you have a derv orders, party healing is already covered. --Thc 13:50, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow this actually got vetted. YAY!-- 我喜欢吃 [[Image:Cheese Eater Sig1.png|16px]] Eater 16:06, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

Wtf
Why do u have infuse health, bring healing ribbon, otherwise H/H will heal you. And get rid of AoR, bring Great Dwarf Armor imo. I like Mindbender though, that was a nice idea.-- Shadow 03:02, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Healing Ribbon is a pretty shitty heal, tbh; this needs a strong heal to make it worth running over an HB Monk (thus Infuse), and if you don't want H/H to heal you, you could probably play the only healer on the team because of the spammability of your heals. Multiple healers on a team, especially if one is a Hero, and the other, a player, is generally a bad idea, because the Hero will usually be the first to heal, anyway. ــмıкε  нaшк  08:57, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It's kind of like aggressive refrain. H/H will remove cracked armor, but it's still worth it.  --Thc 14:34, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
 * not rly, u shouldnt be using this as a main healer anyways-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 21:14, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Just do Heal Other and Jamei's Gaze. Infuse is bad for PvE. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   21:24, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC)Tbh, this would work great as the main healer. It lacks prot, but that isn't a big deal; if you wanted to, you could go with an 11-10-10 split between Healing Prayers and Protection Prayers/Smiting Prayers (Aegis, Shield Guardian, Protective Spirit, Life Bond and Strength of Honor are all pretty good). You can spam Heal Party endlessly, and in between HPs, you can use Infuse Health as a 350-450 point heal, which is better than most of the heals you'll find on a Monk's bar. The point is, though, that you can bypass the downside of Infuse Health and spam it for heals that are stronger than Patient Spirit+HB+Unyielding Aura. Infuse Health is probably the second strongest heal in the game when used properly (first being Dwayna's Kiss+UA+HB+lotsenchantments, but you could take Symbiosis with those enchantments to power Infuse ) and this takes advantage of that better than any Monk bar could, tbh. ــмıкε  нaшк  21:27, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Ether Renewal is good for two things: healing yourself, and maintaining your energy. Infuse can take advantage of both, and imba heals at the same time with little downside. Because of the energy management, this build lets you multitask effectively (Great Dwarf Weapon), too. ــмıкε  нaшк  21:30, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

It's pretty. Karate Jesus 18:11, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Infuse Health is bad, you dont need it because you can spam other healing skills unless your gonna be spiked down it 2 seconds in pve-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 03:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Heal Other is spammable enough, but you still need a stronger heal like Infuse Health. It's not like you'll be expected to cast it every 4 seconds, but if it came down to that, you could because one use of Heal Party brings up to about full Health and then you'll be healed again just before Infusing. ــмıкε  нaшк  07:25, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Infuse health is like, the entire point of this build. Nothing matches the healing power of infuse spam.  Without it, this'd be terrible.  Relyk, stp being bad.  --Thc 12:22, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Your the one being bad, you can't spam infuse every two seconds for big heals, infuse health should be a variant-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 23:43, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
 * lol. --Thc 18:23, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * No recharge? Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case nevermind Light4494  22:57, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

vote?
Thc, you should rethink your vote after the main bar change. It is no longer for heros and uses 2 PvE only skills. J ustin  6   19:03, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * okay changed to 3-3-3, but the main bar is still slightly inferior because of heal party and heal other. Heal other is not needed as infuse has 0 recharge anyway.  Heal party - see discussion above.  It is actually more healing to take Breath of the Dwarf instead.  --Thc 19:23, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Heal Party shouldn't be dropped, because you can spam it for 22 health per second for your party, and Breath of the Great Dwarf only offers ~4 health per second. Heal Other is still pretty good, but I'd usually drop it for Strength of Honor, Healing Breeze or something else that's in the variants. A 10+1+3, 11, 10 split works fairly well if you need to spec into Smiting or Prot. ــмıкε  нaшк  21:00, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Heal party nets you 66*7=~450 or so in total healing power for an investment of about 2 seconds (cast + aftercast). Infuse nets about 130%*200=~250 in healing power in 1 second.  Therefore, almost all the time, it is more efficient to just use infuse and not heal party at all.  The times when you really really do need party healing BotGD heals for 7*60=~400 in 1 second which is stronger than either infuse or heal party.  Also, not taking heal party also frees up an additional slot because you won't be needing mind bender.
 * I don't see how it's any argument that the above bar from Ensign is by far the best when you are doing solo hero/hench (e.g., you don't have an imbagon). (You have the strongest prots in the game spammable on recharge available to you, why not take advantage?).  Combine with an orders derv, and you got all the healing as you'll ever need.  --Thc 23:38, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Heal Party is to mop up AoE and you can't spam Infuse Health on aftercast or else your health will start to decrease more and more. You aren't going to use Infuse Health on an ally at 80% Health, and if you've several allies taking damage (which is quite likely, considering tanking is uncommon, and doesn't work very well), Heal Party will clean most, if not all, of it up.
 * Orders Dervishes are good, but they cannot maintain OoP (it takes up 46% of its time if it were to maintain it), Dark Fury (25%), Arcane Zeal (16%) and still heal themselves at the same time, and even less their party. Besides, why not take more of a good thing (party Healing) if you could?
 * Spamming Heal Party will soak up so much damage that you'll rarely need to use Infuse Health, and that's what makes this great; it's mindless. You don't need good reflexes; you just need fingers that aren't broken, and even then, you could probably manage to play this build.
 * I'm not against taking some Prot, but you don't need a bar full of it, and if you did, bring an N/Rt, N/Mo, another Monk or just spread it around on your Heroes' bars (i.e. put Protective Spirit and Aegis on a couple casters' bars). If you aren't with other players, and you're running a physical heavy team, you'll definitely want to squish to squish EBSoH (and maybe SoH) onto your bar instead of Prots. ــмıкε  нaшк  08:32, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * What I'm saying is that single-target prots<Party Healing. I agree that Heal Other sucks, though. You could Heal Party twice for almost the same amount and still Heal your whole party.  ــмıкε  нaшк  08:37, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * But you CAN spam infuse... you'd just maintain lower HP, which doesn't really matter since you can have strong prots on you. I guess it's just 2 different ways of doing it, tbh.  Maybe just make them variants?  (Although I still maintain that hybrid is stronger with no imbagon on you).  Also, I agree, we should get rid of heal other and put EBSoH or something or maybe just optional.  --Thc 14:37, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * By the way, I'm surprised skakid didnt remove my vote LOL--Thc 14:41, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Your vote provides a valid reason and reasonable score.  —Ska Kid [[Image:Skakidasaur.gif|19px]] 14:46, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Infuse
You don't need anti-spike in PvE. You'll gain around 60 health back from enchantments; that doesn't sap up the around 300 point drop. There's no reason to take it over Jamei's Gaze, or even just bringing some stuff like Dwayna's Kiss or Patient Spirit. --  Guild  of   Deals   12:07, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * After you use Infuse, you use Heal Party and get healed for 186 points (3x enchantments for ER, Aura of Restoration+15e and the Heal from Heal Party). When you use Infuse again, you'll gain another 100 (60 from ER, 40 from Aura of Restoration) right before it drops again, and then you repeat. So, that's ~286 points without any enchantments from other allies.
 * In PvE, enchantments are very common, and you'd probably end up taking Aegis, Order of Pain and Dark Fury, which increase the effectiveness of the build. ــмıкε  нaшк  12:13, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Or you can stop doing absolute fucking overkill, heal a guy for around 180, and then be done. Using Heal Party to recover as a "self heal" is beyond retarted. There's absolutely no reason for Infuse in PvE. At all. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   12:28, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * So you're saying that you're better off using a party heal every 15 seconds and 180 point targetted heals? Your team's health will rarely drop while you're spamming Heal Party, and when it does, you can wait until they're more than half dead to heal them, if you really wanted to. PvE is about overkill and mindless spamming, just look at the Imbagon. ــмıкε  нaшк  12:34, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Hell, you don't even need Jamei's Gaze or Heal Other because they're weak in comparison. Taking both is even less worth it, because they've got 3 second recharges. ــмıкε  нaшк  12:35, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Theorycraft better, tbh. Spells have 0.75 seconds aftercast; HO has 1.5 seconds casting+aftercast which basically gives you just enough time for JG to recharge. Infuse basically forces you to spam AoR and heal party just to keep your health up, preventing you from making timely heals. I would still run normal healers because they are more than enough with imbagons around, anyway, and should come with condition and hex removals, which contribute to their effectiveness and universality. I won't bother to vote because I know very well some BM is going to remove it, anyway, no matter how sound others or my reasoning is.152.226.7.213 23:30, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Just spam AoR every other Infuse and you'll be fine in your hp.

Mindbender?
How are you supposed to maintain it? You could with Glyph of Swiftness, rank 8 asura, and an enchanting weapon (18 recharge with 18 length). One problem, if you use glyph->Ether Renewal->Mindbender, Ether will be good at 24 seconds while mindbender will be recharged at 18. If you just use mindbender as soon as it recharges, it will have its 24 second recharge and more downtime. If you use it with the glyph, the glyph will not be recharged by the time you need to renew ether renewal. If you ignore mindbender when it recharges and use it at the same time as Ether Renewal with the glpyh again, you will have a 6 second downtime (not bad) but there is no point for any air magic points at all, because you will be ignoring mindbender's faster recharge. At 0 air magic, glyph will affect one spell, and ether renewal and mindbender's recharge will both be 24. This will be a 6 seconds mindbender downtime and also a 6 second only-2-enchantemnts downtime, which only nets 8 energy from Ether Renewal. If you were going to use the glyph at 3+1 air magic and reduce mindbender's recharge, would you use glyph->Ether renewal->mindbender->(18 seconds)mindbender->(5 seconds)glyph->ether renewal->mindbender? This would allow a constant maintain of Ether renewal and mindbender affected by the glyph every other cast. This would allow 36 seconds of maintainable mindbender and 13 second downtime. This would probably work the best IMO. If this is correct, why not post it in usage/notes for other people? J ustin  6   22:30, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It's not vital, you don't need to keep it up-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 23:40, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I know, but there are two things:
 * 1. You get 4 more energy per spell you use when it is up.
 * 2. Do you mainly want to maintain it evenly for a long battle, or just maintain it constantly for a 36 sec battle or so. J  ustin  6  [[image:Justing6_siggypic.png|19px]] 00:43, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * We don't specify in the usage, so it's up to the players to figure out which they prefer, tbh. ــмıкε  нaшк  07:25, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Counters

 * Enchantment removal ofc, thats obvious and already mentioned. (Since most ench.removals only remove one, you should always cover ER with AoR.)Guerrillaa 11:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I added Symbiosis. Symbiosis is a massive Counter when using infuse health with this, because the number of hitpoints you gain per cast is far below the hitpoints you lose. Although you can heal for much more HP while under the effects of symbiosis, it will kill you sooner or later, if you just spam infuse. (A pure Infusion-Spammer is even more vulnerable to that). To prevent this, make sure you kill the symbiosis-spirit first, when engaging in a battle. Additionally Make sure, that you are at (almost) full health, when the spirit goes down, because you can lose up to 500hp or more (depending on your enchantments), which will drop your health to 1 (which is in most cases directly followed by death of the ele). Guerrillaa 16:27, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, my first issue is not true. Your HP will only go down until healing and loss is equal (at about 270HP), which is practically the same, as if your not affected by symbiosis. Anyway, there is still the fact, that killing the spirit, can drop your health to 1, while under the effects of lots of enchantments (about 4 or 5, dependent on the level of symbiosis).Guerrillaa 11:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

buff
Makes this a lot better. Imo take the pve skills off and make this viable for a hero. People are going to start using this on heroes. 00:50, 6 March 2009

I have a fairly similar build that works in AB, but without the constant spamability, and more like twice in a 10 second region but still powerful and fairly strong. i'll make a template up

Well
The other build would take far too much micro-management to be even run on Heroes, which it isn't tagged for. This give up Protective Bond for Party Heals and physical buffs. Tbh, I wouldn't Well either, but if we absolutely need to delete one, they should be merged.

Also, using Heal Party in between Infuses works just as well, if not better (because you're obviously healing your party), than having Life Attunement and Elemental Lord on the bar. ــѕт. мıкε  19:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

This needs a Hero-friendly version
because a Hero spamming Infuse while maintaining its own Health seems kind of OP. [build prof=E/Mo EnergyStorage=10+1+2 HealingPrayers=10 SmitingPrayers=10 AirMagic=5 ProtectionPrayers=1][Infuse Health][Optional][Draw Conditions][Optional][Ether Renewal][Aura of Restoration][Strength of Honor][Optional][/build]
 * [[Zealot's Fire@10] (could be good with EBSoH).
 * [[Healing Breeze@10].
 * [[Vigorous Spirit@10].
 * [[Holy Veil].
 * [[Jamei's Gaze@10]/[[Heal Other@10]/[[Healing Ribbon@10].

Needs testing, because Glyph of Swiftness may need to be micromanaged. ــѕт. мıкε  00:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Late response is late, but heroes don't use GoS correctly unless you micro it, which is a pain in the ass. Tbh, the way they use ER tends to keep their energy almost at max w/o even needing GoS. I use an ER Protter hero a lot and that mother fucker can spam the shit out of prots. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] 14:25, 28 September 2009

will 2 heroes w/this spam the shit outa infuse on each other? 71.74.235.30 02:20, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Made improvements to it. now it works well.

I'm making fixes to the build, making look less noobish. Infuser God 02:49, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

I removed Rebirth, because it will rape your energy and there's no need for that; give Vekk Renew Life or something similar. Rebirth is shoddy. Especially for someone who's bonding, jeesus... Also removed GoS, as heroes will not use it, and they know when to cast it and should last all battle, unless you suck. ~Minion 81.37.89.181 19:34, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Crappy variants
Elemental Lord

Burning Speed... Well sorry, Zodiac. But these are pointless enchants when you get right down to it. MORE energy?! You want more than ER + 1e from AoR? That's ludicrous, and you have enough health gain with Life Attunment for spamming Infuse. Your skill slots are precious on an ER, and can be used for more support, same goes for Burning Speed.
 * Pointless enchants? Burning speed is an excellent cover for heavy enchant denial. Elemental lord you can do without, it was for an old build I used that uses Vital Blessing which bumps health to 700+ thus gives more health for infuse. I don't seem to remember why I carry it all the time... Putting 10 into healing prayers adds +50 health, which isn't a fair change when you can easily reduce the energy for protective bond at 13 protection prayers. Infuser God 08:07, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

After the obvious spells, Great Dwarf Weapon is almost always a must; so is spirit bond and Protective Spirit, if someone gets stripped. ~Minion 81.37.89.181 06:35, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Elemental lord heals you...you dunce. it is useful.
 * Lol @^. ER bars are compact. You have unlimited energy, and should be spamming enchants on allies. Having so many skills that can only be cast on yourself,(Elemental Lord, Burning Speed, Aura of Restoration, Ether Renewal) Is pointless and ignores the infinite energy/health gain with ER. Abuse it more. Shield Guardian, Healing Breeze, Vigorous Spirit, Aegis(For a hero atleast), Spirit Bond, Prot Spirit. The list goes on for party support. Don't be greedy.  Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 13:57, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Symbiosis
Why is it a counter? Wouldn't it make you infuse for vastly higher amounts? It's late so I might be missing something, but I don't see why that should be listed. Invincible  Rogue  03:13, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * As you get higher health, the heals from aura, ele lord, and ER become more and more insignificant. basically hour health would continue to drop until you got to around 250 hp and then it would flatten out. Life   Guardian  03:21, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Superior Rune
Is the Superior Rune for ES really necessary for the build? Or is it possible to run it with just a Minor Rune? -- WhiteAsIce 04:17, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * I imagine it's so you sac less with Infuse and so the healing from ER can heal you back up. It's 13 for the 4e breakpoint though. Spaggage  talk  04:38, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's so ER is maintainable, as well moar energies. Life   Guardian  23:52, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

New movie (duo)
Me and my friend wanted to have a good laugh, so we both ran same build. It's really cool to play like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3mqP-T6pPs. Have you tried it too? ^^--ValeV 07:43, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Some1 trashed this :S someone needs to get it back to normal

this
is insanely broken as SF. if they nerf SF they have to nerf this.--Bluetapeboy 23:12, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * er has only gotten popular recently, its not exactly game breaking though-- Relyk  talk  23:49, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't for farming, and on that note, doesn't completely fuck the economy or make 90% of elite areas exclusive to only sins or 600's. --Shazamrowssig.png 04:00, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It may be broken, but 9 times out of 10 I will get kicked from a PuG for telling them I'm a healer with this build. --[[Image:Jimp.jpg|19px]] WhiteAsIce 10:21, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * something similar can be used to bond in doa (ze germans use that build a lot). Having said that life barrier is generally makes it easier for the tanks, so normal bonders are taken instead. - Athrun Feya - 11:35, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

In the hands of an intermediate-experienced player, ER is far more powerful than a monk at protting and redbarring. However, it has glaring weaknesses that can only be alleviated by the player's knowledge of the area (rupts, strips, lack of party healing and cleaning). Thus, it is really no more broken than any other powerful build in GW (and far underpowered compared to pre-nerfed SF). --<font color="Red">Arrogant  Bastard  00:12, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

variant
[build prof=E/Mo air=3 ene=12+1+3 hea=9 pro=9][Infuse Health][Glyph of Swiftness@4][Ether Renewal][Elemental Lord (Kurzick)][Burning Speed][Aura of Restoration][Life Attunement][Protective Bond][/build] here is a variant I have come up with its similar to the E/mo used for dayway with a few changes. I use it to keep prot bond on the whole part and life attune on my self. I can then spam burning speed to keep up energy and keep up the other enchants and use infuse if someone is getting spiked, in areas without lots of interrupt or any kd you can also tank by spaming burning speed, I'v done many vq runs with this and think it should be added as a variat. note: ele lord puts air magic up to 4 so you get 2 skills for glyph Eluvatar 07:25, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That variant sucks. Cuilan 00:18, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * What about the two skills he added to the bar makes the build suck? 141.149.184.23 13:00, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * No support outside of infuse. No Defense.--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown">...And my Axe! [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 13:49, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * See above, "Crappy Variants" And it's what you put in the build =^/ When you're Re-casting ER, your energy and allies will get ganked. Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 14:00, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

why is it that ele has better healing than monk? so wrong...monk needs e management---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 22:18, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * naw, nerf er Novii 22:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not a problem with Eles or Necros; it IS that monk energy management is ABYSMAL. They -have- to look to Secondaries to find something decent. Channeling should be Earshot range...
 * Selfless Spirit, even without Assassin's Promise, is still good, tbh. ــѕт.  мıкε  00:04, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * yuk---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 12:27, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Needs reworking
The current version of this build just blows.

Here is why:
 * 1) Glyph of Swiftness - Waste of a skill slot. In hard areas, you are gonna need Essence anyway so this isn't needed.  Everywhere else, you can bond without GoS quite easily.
 * 2) Attributes - Mainbar should have 12 in Protection and 3 in Healing. Mixing in Healing Prayers should really only happen with a dual ER backline, otherwise you are much stronger sticking to Prot.
 * 3) Optionals suck - Spirit Bond needs to be mainbar. Aegis and Dwayana's Sorrow don't belong on an ER player.  Protective Spirit needs to be added as an optional because enchantment stripping happens.
 * 4) Equipment - You need Attuenment/Radiant armor if you intent to ER in any place difficult.
 * 5) Dual ER Backline - this needs to be added to show how to the skill spread should be when using ER's over monks.

If there is no disagreement, I will make these changes soon.--<font color="Red">Arrogant  Bastard  00:07, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Expect smart people to change out GoS when they're going to use an essence.--<font color ="Blue">Ikimono <font color ="Brown">...And my Axe! [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 00:19, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * For Dual ER backline, you should probably make a team page like Archive:Team - UA/HB Mimicry does. Then you could link this and that build to each other in their see also sections. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 00:22, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ikimono, my point was that you don't need GoS without Essence either. The only places were you must have 100% upkeep of ER usually require at least an Esssence to complete in a reasonable time.--<font color="Red">Arrogant Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg Bastard  00:28, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's 6 seconds of downtime without GoS or an Essence of Celerity. Things could explode during that time, but they probably won't, if you've got Protective Bond on them. If you want to play an even more mindless version with an EoC, I'm thinking:


 * 37 Health per second for your party with HB and HP, and HB provides a cover for Protective Bond. Then again, if you're brinding GDW, you'll probably be bringing Orders, too. No room for extra prot, but Aegis and Spirit Bond (although I really don't think it's necessary) could be taken on a Hero. You won't need Life Attunement, because one use of HP should bring you up to full Health after an Infuse Health. If you aren't running physicals, GDW can be dropped for Aegis. Healing Breeze could also be dropped for Spirit Bond. The point is that Mindbender+HP is sexy. ــѕт.  мıкε  04:13, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not for a dual-ER backline. It suits for the Deep, because there's less compression required; but you don't need party-healing with ER. You just need more prots, and for your physicals not to overextend too much. LA isn't just used for health gain, but an extra enchant for energy gain. Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 04:34, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, nvm, I didn't think Infuse Health would bring back up to full with just those Enchantments, but you can just run lower max Health or bring more Enchantments in your party. Infuse Health should be all the redbarring you need, unless you aren't maintaining ER with an Essence or GoS. So I agree with turning this into a mostly prot bar, although keep Aegis as at least optional, and I don't think Protective Spirit is necessary if you've got a few cover Enchantments (Spirit Bond, Aegis and Orders, depending on the team).


 * Aegis, GoS, GDW, Shield Guardian, etc. for the optionals. ــѕт.  мıкε  14:29, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * ps is there for if pbond gets stripped as a stopgap measure until you can safely reapply. ideally it shouldnt happen as you keep enchants buried, but i think it warrants a spot in variants. Especially if you run a 2er backline, and the other Er isnt so good and looses bonds... cant disagree with the rest tho ^ &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 14:53, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aegis isn't spammable enough for my liking; I'd rather it put on another character in my team, rather than have a disabled skill slot for 25 seconds. Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 17:27, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * yeah on an ap monk so he can keep a perma aegis and seed goin while cleaning and shileding &gt;&gt;Jayson&lt;&lt;&lt; 17:45, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't need a Monk for 8 man areas, tbh. I'd run Aegis on this bar and on a Hero (N/Mo or Rt/Mo), so you can keep it up 75-90% of the time. ــѕт.  мıкε  18:05, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * No real need for such uptimes, you only need it when there are big mobs, and then you only need it active for the start of the fight. Things should be dead when it ends.  Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 18:11, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aegis blows on ER players and so does GoS. Aegis is just anti-synergy with ER and the only possible use for GoS I can think of is if you want to test an ER ele out for the first time (otherwise it will just cripple your build).  Shield Guardian and Spirit Bond should be staple because they are spammable and have good effects.--<font color="Red">Arrogant Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg Bastard  20:25, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aegis is a good cover. ــѕт.  мıкε  20:36, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good covers are either quick-casting or fast recharging. Aegis has neither attribute. Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 21:05, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ill rephrase that for mike. Aegis is a decent cover that actually servers a purpose other than being a cover. If you wanted a good cover, you'd probably bring dwayna's sorrow. Life   Guardian  21:37, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aegis is good, but not on an ER. There is little synergy with ER and it should be brought on another player/hero instead.--<font color="Red">Arrogant Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg Bastard  21:52, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * synergy is what makes the world go around right? its waste of points and stupid to put aegis on another character when you can bring it on the bar. you need GoS for general pve since you never need essence unless its an elite area; your blue bar can go down fast if the frontline gets spiked during ER downtime.-- Relyk  talk  02:23, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * For general play, you have to be afking to lose ~120 energy in the 5 seconds ER is down. Also you just need to properly time ER so its up as you engage a large mob, then you have 25 seconds to kill it.--<font color="Red">Arrogant Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg Bastard  02:41, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

The basic guideline is to have as many spammable enchants as possible. 1/4 casting and under 5s recharge is best, but when using essence/Rock Candy, 1s< is fine. Just work around that. You don't need GoS unless you are just spamming ER on recharge. If you cast it 'as' you enter a mob, you will have enough time to kill; and even if you don't kill everything in that time (unlikely) you still have 120~energy (Most I've had is 170~ energy) to absorb the hits. Minion  Excluded 09:01, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

LOL
no Elemental lord? u srs? it adds +heal for the ele.--Bluetapeboy 00:59, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * You want more heals for your ele? They're already getting too much health gain per cast. Save your slots for enchants that target the party.  Minion Splinter Weapon.jpg Excluded 03:45, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Elemental Lord is pretty bad on most ER bars, tbh. There are better enchantments out there that are much more useful.String Bean 00:52, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Burning Speed
After thinking about it a little, I think that Burning Speed deserves a spot as one of the optionals. Possibly add it in variants? I think that it's useful as a cover that's always available, and it can also help keep energy up if/when you need to bond the entire party. The only other comparable option in terms of pure energy gain is spamming infuse, and doing that makes mobs retarget to you. I know the point of the build is to spam infuse, but sometimes even pure redbarring can't outdo a few protective bonds, and I feel a bit safer having the option to switch to a pure protter when necessary. Burning speed lets me safely keep a party protted while hanging back and avoiding aggro. String Bean 03:25, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * But you also have 5-6 spammable enchantments on your bar. Burning speed is bad because when you don't want to take some aggro, you can spam your prots. Everytime you cast ER you should cast everysingle other enchant on yourself too, and it WON'T get stripped. The issue on stripping is a big one; but it really isn't a problem when you know what you're doing (covering and backlining) when the party gets overwhelmed with pressure I'm always constantly spamming all my prots/Infuse while they're recharging; and they rarely change targets to attack me.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg Excluded 08:50, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!!
Just wanted to say thanks much to the original creator of the build and all the people who helped it become what it is. Previously, I hadn't been able to find a viable build for my ele--even Savannah Heat and similar spells did minuscule damage in HM. Finally I have a build that works well and effectively in a HM environment. Now if I could only find one for my ranger... heh. --Ghostwheel

Addition
spam Stone Daggers for additional support while increasing energy!---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 12:01, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * spam infuse, shield guardian, sb ect on recharge..mostly infuse...and you do WAYWAYWAY more for your team. without wasting time doin petty damage <font color="ForestGreen">Jayson <font color="Black">MaxxFury 12:20, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Better than sitting doing nothing cause your pew pew's are invincible. I understand that Infuse is the way to go but if party is at max health...then....---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 13:49, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * then you shouldnt be in casting range to use daggers anyway ^ and you will be needing to keep your spirit bonds all over everyone as well, to actually keep your team at full health :D and curious what skill do you drop and were do you steal your attributes from? and can you justify the losses? as you need high prot and Es. Just curious how you would re skill the bar to fit daggers in <font color="ForestGreen">Jayson <font color="Black">MaxxFury 13:54, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * He's either being bad or a troll.

Either way, I'l pursue this line of enquiry. If you're using physicals, which is generally the case when using an ER, taking Great Dwarf Weapon will always deal more damage than Stoning daggers and cost no attributes. fapfapfap. Minion  Excluded 15:18, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was only a way to get energy up while your invicibles do there thing while you roll your thumbs. Not intented to do much damage.  Meh maybe not so hot of an idea.  Worked for me.---<font color="#0000ff"> X <font color="#696969"> TREME 10:15, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anything works in PvE. -- Jai  03:53, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * What a worthless comment. Cuilan 04:37, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh look, a worthless comment commenting on the worth of a worthless comment. You know what that is? Worthless. Now, unless I'm behind in the times (probably am), this is where the typical PvX user would tell you to stop being a nigger. -- Jai  05:46, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Stop being a nigger. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 06:22, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Meta
Should this be tagged for meta? While it defiinitely isn't meta in general PvE, it's used for all the pug teams in elite areas-- Relyk  talk  00:32, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe if it's tagged for meta, more people will start using it. Probably not as it's not as mindless as UA or HB. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 01:05, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I occasionally see it in PUGs, but the PUGs that use ER builds in elite areas are not using this build. Cuilan 01:31, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You're kinda contradicting yourself, anyway pugs are retarded and are a good reflection of the idiocy of the community. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 13:17, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not Meta. Def Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 13:25, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see how I was kinda contradicting myself. Cuilan 18:59, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Considering that this is literally the only ele build of merit, IMO it should get a meta tag. -- Jai . -  19:32, August 20 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not why you slap Meta on builds, Jai. Cuilan; Vorpal was talking to Relyk. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:58, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Would have been more fun if it were at me. Cuilan 03:52, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jai, this is the ele's best build, and one of the most overpowered builds in the game at the same time. EDIT: but I guess we also have to meta a ranger build according to that logic =/ <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 10:18, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No, because all ranger builds are inferior to builds of other professions. ER Infuse is one of the strongest builds in the game, while ranger builds are lackluster at best. -- Jai . -  18:07, August 21 2011 (UTC)

'Additionally,with 18 energy storage you gain +5 energy per enchantment, easily refilling 100+ energy with 2 spell casts.'; is this taking into account enchantments maintained on others? because er applies energy gain per enchantment on you, not others, unless skill descrption is wrong. 95.93.28.59 11:02, 21 August 2011
 * If ranger builds are lackluster at best, then there shouldn't be any ranger builds on the normal PvX pages. Cuilan 20:01, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No because people obviously need builds for rangers. But this is quite interesting actually. Jai you're arguing that Barrage (or any other build) shouldn't be meta because it's inferior, despite the fact that the majority of people run barrage on their ranger. The reverse holds for ER, which is OP but the majority of all people run AP or some crappy SF build on their ele. So is meta defined within the bounds of a class, or according to the demand/popularity of certain builds in teams/pugs? <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 23:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * But, see, PvX don't attend to PUG meta, just SC and 7H meta. ER Prot isn't great as a player bar in a 7H team, and there is a version used for SCs already. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 00:32, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fuck definitions, tbh. It's my opinion, which means it's probably wrong. But now that you mention Barrage, I'd probably support slapping a meta tag on it... -- Jai . -  01:03, August 22 2011 (UTC)
 * The Barrage build page should go back to testing, though. There's so much retarded crap on it. Cuilan 16:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, including Barrage itself when you have volley :P Fianchetto 02:06, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

This build is listed as under General PvE as being meta. I personally class a build as Meta if it is commonly seen in PuG groups, which this isn't in general PvE. Random Weird Guy 11:04, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Your definition of the PvE meta is too narrow. A new misery  12:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, how often is this build used in General PvE, such as missions and vanquishes? Random Weird Guy 12:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Speaking for myself, it's usually my preferred role in any pug. We make monks go smite/AP so someone can emo Fianchetto 14:12, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No idea. I don't play Guild Wars, but your definition is incorrect, so your argument comes from the wrong direction and holds no sway. Read the discussion above. It may help you understand why this was originally put into the meta category. Perhaps it is no longer part of the metagame, people who play the game and understand what that actually means should probably make that decision. A new misery  14:28, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Life Attunement effectiveness
Test results for equilibrium healing value reached after a ton of infuse casts:
 * ~124 with PBond, ER, AoR on you
 * ~146 with PBond, ER, AoR, +1 enchant on you
 * ~170 with PBond, ER, AoR, +2 enchants on you
 * ~207 with PBond, ER, AoR, +Life Attunment on you
 * So enchants except LA add ~23 hp, and LA is worth about 3 enchants. Pretty decent, unless you realize that 1. it's not hard to get 3+ enchants put on you anyway, and 2. (good) infusers should never ever reach that point of constant infuse spamming. With the first few consecutive infuses, LA's contribution is barely different than any other enchant's. So yeah, it's got neat synergy and all, but LA should be in optionals because cold hard facts > coolness value. Use that slot for another enchant, a res, or something costly but useful like Convert Hexes/Reverse Hex Fianchetto 02:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * So you prove LA's awesomeness, and your conclusion is that it's redundant? Does..not..compute. Anyway, play Physway for a change and you will see that your assumptions are wrong. On a side note, it's definitely mainbar material for the sole reason that it's superior to all other optionals. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 02:55, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I should've said it in layman terms...LA is redundant. (See above why.) Redundancy is not awesome. What I meant by "coolness" is not awesome, unless it's useful. Redundancy is not useful. Fianchetto 03:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You don't need LA, but when you're infuse spamming(which admittedly should only be happening in elite areas) its rather helpful unless you have alot of enchants on you. Helps when LT sucks and lets aatxes at my spirits and I can just spam infuse on them without worrying about my health slowly going away.Roland 05:33, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Physway is for lazy noobs who can't get organized enough to spike. -Rask 75.142.5.119 06:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * yeah, organised spike is really what you want in general pve. ~  Ӎiñon Crysig.jpg 07:50, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Worth taking a res skill?
Well, people sometimes expect the healer to be able to resurrect... thoughts? --Kgptzac 01:09, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Tell them no, and get flesh of my flesh on the rit. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  10:15, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly what he said. ^

Make Protective Bond an optional? Add Strength of Honor as optional?
I don't think PB is necessarily always worth its skill slot.
 * Recently I've been using this with 2-3 Dagger Spammer heroes. I've never killed stuff this fast before. I can keep them alive on my own in 4-man zones too.

[build prof=E/Mo ene=9+1+3 smi=11 pro=10 hea=4][Infuse Health][Spirit Bond][Protective Spirit][Great Dwarf Weapon][Strength of Honor][Life Attunement][Ether Renewal][Aura of Restoration][/build] Thoughts? Milenka 17:11, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * As a main template, you really want max energy storage on a human ER. For a hero, that's fine because they don't spam anyway. No point adding to page. ~<font face="Calibri" color=black>Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 18:20, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * umm, the main point of maxed ER is Prot Bond(+SB). PS(+SB) is a workable replacement if bringing SoH, in which case all that's needed is 13 Energy Storage. and you just said it's fine on heroes, not sure what your point is &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 19:26, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't need PB, which is true. It's just nice to have as a failsafe so you don't have to preprot. ~<font face="Calibri" color=black>Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 22:14, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You only use prot bond in UW and such. No one uses it in normal play.-- Relyk 02:04, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Meh. I use it, just on less people. Don't need a bu to use it either. ~<font face="Calibri" color=black>Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 02:15, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ^ (isn't much harder and is 100x cooler) &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 16:11, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe the whole mainbar could use a more robust Optional system, with Infuse, ER, and AoR being the the mainbar.Milenka 14:00, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No? Cuilan 15:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * actually, include SB and it'll work. sc emos have their own page &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 16:11, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's an idea; don't spec smiting prayer on a prot bar. ~<font face="Calibri" color=black>Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 17:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)