Archive talk:Team - Hero Speedbook

Main question: is this better than sin's speedbooking?--ValeV 13:28, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've never had a sin run me but i do my books in 8 minutes and its really easy, just die and flag and the heroes do all the work.Epicfail86 20:54, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Guru Thread --- Generally faster, don't have to pay someone else.. ya that's better. Doc roboto 07:52, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

video ---  Ressmonkey  (talk) 21:19, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * video+Build:Team - 3 Hero A Time for Heroes Run=speedbook-- Relyk  talk  04:59, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Any/A doesnt have monk so I needed to invent something =P ---  Ressmonkey  (talk) 20:26, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

how does the fire not kill them..

this is genius when killing the great destroyer with my ele i took golden fox strike and golden fang strike for the deepwound. flag heros so they dont stand in the fire 20k faction nm 1 and a half hours (first try at speedbooking)

ya, i've figured that part out.. but now i cant figure out why im dying in hm


 * Watch videos. There're loads of them. I think both builds (this and a/e speedbooking) should be in great.--ValeV 06:18, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Does HM work?


 * This is for HM.--ValeV 19:24, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

This Works
This works perfectly. Can be done with any profession. 5-5 Rikk Panda {a.k.a. Benny Lava}   08:45, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

You are right, I tested it myself too! Works great :D GJ! --Jorre22225 13:20, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Tested works a treat! nom nom nom e-vangaurd here I come! --Tristansmum 8:55, febbruary 2, 2010 (UTC)

HM
It's just a detail, but maybe it should be mentioned on the page that it's for HM (even if it's obvious...)

Video?
Sounds great - if I understand correctly this can be done with any profession, not just sin. Would it be possible to post a video of the heroes in action?
 * See the comment I made above (4th comment on talk page). ---  Ressmonkey  (talk) 20:26, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great vid.. will answer most questions. Well worth a look. -- Doc roboto 22:26, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Vetting..?
Should this be moved to vetting now? We've established that this works, and works well. There are no more minor changes to made. Anyone else with me? --Saberhagen (My Talk) 18:05, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

? about doing ATFH with Warrior
Maybe I'm just not very good, but trying the warrior build with ATFH, and have only come close to completing once. Take too much damage too quickly, not sure what I'm doing wrong. The other 2 quests are extremely easy to do and very fast.


 * Are you sure you got all runes etc? I've got no experience doing this with a warrior, but I do with an Assassin. I use the builds from the A/Any Speedbooking for ATFH. They still work great if you use all runes, so you might try it out. You could also try to take you're favorite warrior build, with some monk regeneration skills, so you're having enough regeneration. (Try healing breeze) Take YMLAD and you're other attack skills. Beside you could try Shadows Refuge.

84.85.178.203 19:10, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I had a bit of trouble with this until I added all the runes to my heroes, but once I did that the suggested warrior build (OQcSE5OT2kdPHMNMvl0kwF8V) worked fine. The only change I made to it was to move YMLAD to slot 1 so I can hit the key quicker and more accurately. It even handles 1 Deeds with no problem. Double check that your heath is as low as possible (be sure to use a strength+3 as one of the runes to lower your heath for the extra armor penetration), and that your heroes have the right runes. Beyond that I don't know what could be happening. So far the only problem I've encountered with this strategy is finding the spots to get the Nornbear to spawn but not attack. For some reason the spots in the images aren't working for me, but he is still easy and quick enough to fight. --207.47.204.252 00:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Hi, im new here but about that last few posts where the warrior couldn't do it, i got a build that i've been using. [OQMT02oSVym8t0uQoQwoTjmckAA] hasn't failed me yet. 82.18.120.177 13:11, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the build, works perfectly. I guess it was me being stupid. Thanks for the help.

Build:Team - 3 Hero A Time for Heroes Run-- Relyk  talk  22:38, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Curse of the Nornbear
This works really great and I've made some nice reputation points with it. But after doing this a while I am having lots of trouble with Curse of the Nornbear at the start. When de Mandragors spawn they usually kill my whole party. I take the 3 heroes (with runes etc.) + 2 Monks heroes + 2 Elementalists. Also tried one Warrior instead of 1 Elementalis, but they still seem to kill the whole party. Sometimes they kill only 2/3 people of my party and their dead themselves, but it's annoying as hell to continuously resign this mission till I can kill them. So Does anybody have some tips on for me? ^^

The other missions don't give trouble at all. :) 84.85.178.203 14:20, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Get all your spirits up before you aggro. Makes it quick and easy. Doc roboto 20:56, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I made a build that uses any Primary and the dervish secondary. Can anyone tell me how to post it? Oh and it's just for the ATFH with the monk bonders that where used for the original A/D 105 way. Kendor69 15:55,February 10, 2010 (EST)
 * Read through the info available (how-to, FAQs etc). Everything you need to know is in there.  The main question you would have to address would be 'is it faster than */A?'.Doc roboto 22:05, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Find their weakness
Hey this build is really great and I've maxed my Delver title last week. Yet I'm not really speedbooking, I'm more vanquishing, but that doesn't matter... xD

What I want to say.. Since I've been using this build I've had loads of trouble with the mandragors at the spawn of Curse of the Nornbear. So I asked on the video about this hero speedbooking what could help me out. So somebody told me to change 'Find their weakness' to "Never Surrender" and "Stand Your Ground". These give your heroes extra armor and some regeneration. I don't know if it helps that much, but my heroes die much less times at the mandragor.

Also I say you take 2 monks instead of 1. You really need this heal, especially at the mandragors. Also like somebody above this message said, put up your spirits before engaging.

Anyways, thanks for this great build! I like this much more then speedbooking with a permasin!

Greetz

82.168.185.27 18:02, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Just one small question. In the videos you say stuff Like "since you gotta die anyway yo need to do it here.". Is the purpose in dying just so you can micro your heroes? --Ravskau 18:28, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the only reason to die is to better micro your heroes, but it is soooo much easier to do if u die. If u dont want to die u can sit completely still and use the mission map, but u have to know very well what is going on and messing up is much worse because its hard to correct. ---  Ressmonkey  (talk) 18:52, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Not that they present much of an obstacle (just take a lil time) but I have NEVER done nornbear in any mode that the mandragors DIDN'T spawn right at the beginning --Ravskau 16:32, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Happens about 4 in 10 times that they dont spawn as long as you dont move foward at all. ---  Ressmonkey  (talk) 22:01, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * your heroes should get past the mandragors fine with fall back, doesnt matter if one dies-- Relyk  talk  23:30, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Phhhhrhrhrhrhofesore ja stvarno nishhrrrram uchrrrrila!
 * Well I really need all of my heroes when killing the nornbear... It's also really annoying when you don't notice the nornbear popping up at the spawns, then you go back and he spawns and chases your heroes and kills one in 1 hit. :P Really annoying.

It would be great to let these mandragors disappear :P Still great build now, I liked this one more than the perma one. More now perma is nerfed! :) 84.85.178.203 22:39, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * If he is actually killing your heroes in 1 hit, then the problem is that your heroes have waaaay too low health. Your heroes should have at least 550 health without the norn bonus and over 600 with it.  If you do this the mandragor should be less of a problem and it shouldnt matter if one dies. ---  Ressmonkey  (talk) 23:06, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Watch out
With the new updates of February, i would watch out for Destroyer Bones. having 2 of these is deadly. It is even more important to have some spell that keeps u from being knocked down as long as possible and the damage can be enough to over come some class. I use a rit/derv so it is very easy for me to live. Amishprn86 05:52, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Amishprn86 almost forgot my build is OAqjIykzKTni2ksXVbbM0keTGXA im using "I Am Unstoppable!" but Fleeting Stability works great if there is no deeds. Amishprn86 05:58, February 26, 2010 (UTC)Amishprn86

ATFH
I can't finish ATFH anymore. My heroes always lose protective bond and i die. Anyone know what i'm doing wrong?

maybe wrong armor...or just not 105hp (+30hp on your daggers) or your heroes are low on energy when you engage the enemys. Illoyon 19:49, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I have the same problem, i have no idea what i'm doing wrong. i have 55hp and my monks all have more than 50 energy. Plohek 16:11, March 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah i have the same thing it works off and on, one min its going all well then all my bonds go? maybe a bug with the last update? --A zreal o f S kyrim  19:42, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh when you die make sure to check whats happened with your heros, i just noticed that my heros had over agroed some destroyers and got mashed up --A zreal <font color="Black">o <font color="Purple">f <font color="Black" >S <font color="Purple">kyrim  19:55, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, what usually happens is if you don't kill that dude fast enough, some spawned destroyes through those portals engage your heroes and they loose energy, can't keep enchantments up and you die. I noticed that i had problems with protective bond as well.  Once I got my energy up around 58+ on my monks, I had less of a problem.  I did however noticed that even though I had no problems with deeds or even 2xdeeds.  I have problems with 2x flesh and die from some sort of massive degen, probably bleeding + burning.--Hallaloolah 20:06, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please explain how your heroes should be losing energy at all... Essence bond and 3x prot bond should cover all energy concerns. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 21:04, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * they loose energy on each hit, even with essence bond on. i guess they shouldn't? something is terribly wrong....lol Plohek 08:21, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * wait, heroes only get energy from essence bond if the damage is more than zero? i always take 0, so i guess that's the problem. btw what AL am i supposed to use? Plohek 08:25, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * ok i raised my HP to 85, took 1 dmg every hit and it worked great. 109.182.10.176 08:31, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * were u 55ing on ur sin? qq-- Relyk  talk  08:34, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to go about calculating everything out, but right off the bat with all of the bonds on, one of the 3 monks has a -1 energy degradation. When you are fighting and you watch what is going on there is an active energy drain occuring across all 3 of the monks even with the bonds on.  They replenish each other with the necro/paragon/signets spells. (necro -> health for sp then signets for healing).  Obviously, as much as they aren't "supposed" to be loosing energy, they do, and the build for the monks account for it and again generally it isn't a problem, but as soon as a monk gets agroed, you're kinda screwed or if you don't take into account some sort of the lifesteal (wound/bleeding) + the burning going on.
 * Ur doing something wrong if your monks are losing energy at all. Some possible reasons:  1) Your monks do not have 13 prot prayers.  They all NEED 13 prot prayers.  2)  You are not interrupting Lava Wave with ymlad.  This will summon another destroyer who will not trigger essence bond.  3)  Not all of your monks are maintaining essence bond and prot bond on u.  If ur doing something else wrong, please note it. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 14:32, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm telling you that without engaging any mobs right off the bat, one monk is loosing energy due to 5 bonds, -1 x 5 = -1.--Hallaloolah 14:39, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dont take life bond. It doesnt do anything anyways. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 14:40, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Life bond is useful in several scenarios. If you find you do fine without it, stop using it.  -1 energy degen is not an issue if your heroes are set up and flagged correctly. Doc roboto 00:58, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Curse of the Nornbear AI issue?
I've noticed that if you don't sacrifice yourself and just run the CotN quest, there aren't any issues until the final fight. For some reason, the heroes and henchmen just won't kill him. The heroes are firing off their skills and, at the very least, I know the monk henchmen are healing.I can't seem to figure out what's not working. In fact, the only thing I could imagine is that Spirits won't attack unless you're viewing it yourself for some reason, because the moment you do sac yourself, the Nornbear goes down quite quickly. Any thoughts or knowledge on this? ···  Danny So Cute    01:21, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sac yourself, remove problem? --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 01:46, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Going for Survivor 3 and cbf'd brawling. Found out it really depends on the team setup. Also, it takes a good long while anyway. ···  Danny So Cute    03:04, 23 March 2010 (UTC)


 * figured it out. spirits don't attack if you're not watching, basically. but using damage-focused builds handles the mission easily. ···  Danny So Cute    03:20, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Curse of the nornbear
I dont understand, The bear NEVER spawns. Am i doing something wrong? :S
 * Yes. ···  Danny So Cute    22:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)


 * maybe you just entered drakkar lake instead of speaking to Sif Shadowhunter in Sifhalla to enter curse of the nornbear. Illoyon 09:15, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

needs some minor changes
first new atfh player bar... Any/ second...full superior runes for bonder heroes, because they are cheap and work as good as minor ones.Illoyon 21:38, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * more dps.
 * you dont need to cap a elite, that is only available in late factions campaign.
 * deldrimor rank effect triggers more often.
 * Jagged Strike and Fox Fangs are not as easy interruptable...so can actually use your attack chain against Destroyer of Deeds.

Better player build for ATFH
I found Mystic Regeneration and Mystic Sweep to work better than the assassin build for my ranger. Here's my setup:

/ --187.64.37.166 17:57, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Game update for 6/3/10 -> Nerf to Speedbooking...
They have removed the ability to do Against the Charr Quickly. Mobs now spawn on the path to the bridge and several on the way to the warcamp.
 * Spawns now pop on both AtC and CotNb.. safe to say this isn't speedbooking anymoreEpicfail86 03:38, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, they pop up in AtC as you get to their spawn points and not before; kind of like landmines. Also sad because I was doing 30 books at once. Even sadder is that if you manage to get through the pop-ups, a whole heap spawn in the camp where you have to kill the boss Harvest Soulreaper - emesis

Maybe able to salvage speedbooking? - maybe archiving was premature?

 * I have a new route that isn't too hard using the previous builds for the speedbooker for AtC. - emesis

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7501/newrunforspeedbookeratc.jpg
 * The groups at the end DO slow down the run, but are quite easily taken care of with the hero's and henchies. Just pull one at a time. This is just a band-aid to enable the builds to continue to work until something better comes along. Hope that Speedbooking can be salvaged somewhat - emesis 58.169.244.68 06:36, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I timed this for ATC. Post nerf, you're looking at 9-10 minnutes a run.  So 9-10 minutes, + COTN 10-12 minutes(assumed post change) + ATFH 2-3 minutes, looking at 25-30 minutes for 6k of rep/hour.  I haven't seen what they did to COTN, if they did the same thing as they did to ATC, you'll need to kill all the Jotun's, and the dreamweaver group on the way to the 1st nornbear spawn.  So Although this _might_ be the fastest way to gain rep points, there isn't a specific build needed to accomplish ATC or COTN, you just need to know the run path and whatever build you like to use, sab, discord, spirit, etc.  The only part of this that's salvagable is the ATFH bonding part.  So you could do a runner group with that.  on a side note, it's nice to take menlo with you as a hench to give some addition healing assistance to your bonders.  Keep in mind, you could just load up a second instance of guildwars and put an account there to leech rep asura.  norn can be done via vaettirs if someone is willing to take a leecher.  Deldrimor - snowman runs I guess.  Then you have vanguard, snowball fight during wintersday when you can.--71.88.220.126 17:26, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * You might as well as run (don't kill yourself) with your hero's there no point of ghostrunning with hero's anymore since they pop up with hero's.  You can do your run without dying, I believe.--71.88.220.126 17:41, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * If we're looking at 25-30mins for 6k, you're better off vanquishing. Can get at least 16k/h for norn, asura and ebon I think. <font color="Red">A <font color="Black">ndy 17:53, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * faster to do hm full books then-- Relyk  talk  21:35, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * looked at the tables for vqing in eotn and the most you get is around 5k per area + bounty bonus which might double that so if you can vq an area in 1 hour or less, it might be faster. In regards to full hm books @ 3ok over 4 hours at the fastest it would beat 6k/hour, but I'm not quite sure if it can be done that quickly.74.5.198.69 12:07, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * It usually takes around 3 hours to complete a book-- Relyk  talk  22:50, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would like to add that there are many more spawn points post-nerf than just on the original route - Just happened to be that none fell on this new route. Also, I was looking for a way to complete the books I already had and the point was to do the run with as little changes as possible from the original. Beyond that, make of it what you will. Saves changing builds and stuff when you are already set up for it. I did the map I think the next day after the nerf, so this can all probablt be improved anyway - emesis 121.215.34.96 18:37, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Works Now

 * G.O.L.E.M. is pro? -- Graz Says   Its time to DoA  23:35, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

G.O.L.E.M. optimization
The front way is much faster than the back way. Do go near the Asura. Then plant flags h+h so they guard the kilns. --War_Pig5 21:51, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually no. When you clear out the back and flag them at the top, right when the quest ends your done other then the bosses. rather then groups patroling to the bridge after that. I will be leaving the usage that way :P -- Graz Says   Its time to DoA  00:08, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * GOLEM and destroyers in general are much easier with a spiritway. Life   Guardian  00:11, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're biased towards your build life, but i still agree as long as you can remove stances :/-- Relyk  talk  00:56, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, discord blows for destroyers because of their damn monster skill. I always ran a different version of spiritway against them before i found the one i posted here. Life   Guardian  05:04, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Time frame wise, you need to wait for those kilin to warm up no matter what before you can raze the hive. And even if you kill all the spawns in the back, new ones popup to raid the kilin.  So, as far I can tell, it's a wash whether or not you clean out the back or do the quest normally.  All I can say is that this isn't speedbooking.  Also, the ATC, no matter how fast I run it, it takes me a little over 6 minutes.  As it stands the current timespan makes it maybe 20 minutes for 3k rep (9k/hour).  Which is worse than doing a full HM book which would be 10k/hour provided you could do one in 3 hours.--Hallaloolah 17:44, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Life: put those builds in then. @Haloolah: your obviously using the builds incorrectly then. I made that 4 min video and as you can tell....im bad at flagging...I don't understand how you could get over 5 minutes. -- Graz Says   Its time to DoA  23:33, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, it's 15 minutes a book...If not less. 4mi ATC + 2 min ATFH + 9min G.O.L.E.M.=15min (these are average times)....Keep trying and look at how i flag them in video. you should be getting 4 min ez. -- Graz Says   Its time to DoA  23:38, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * As I stated, the front way is faster. Your response made no sense, and also did not contain any reason nor proof that the back way is faster. You may be leaving the usage that way, but the good players on this site will be changing it. The reason why the front way is faster is that (1) the kiln warmup starts much sooner (2) there is no time wasted clearing, then running back to the Asura and then running back to the hive. Front way is just 1 run from start to hive. --War_Pig5 18:01, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * That video shows a 4:30 minute run, not including getting to the helmet which in itself takes about a minute or so. At 17 minutes every 3 missions, I guess it's better than HM full book.  Averaging out at 10,600 rep/hour.  (3 x 3000 + (3000/17) x 9) --71.88.220.126 00:28, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

you know you can do cotn in 5 minutes with h/h-- Relyk  talk  02:16, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've done it with heroes and henchies and it's not bad. I guess unlike ATC where ANET knew the run path and stuck a bunch of crap in it and didn't foresee a new one, COTN only has one run path so there is no "ghostrunning" version that can be done.  That being said.  I think COTN is faster than golem.  But you could do a 4 book "speedbook" (golem, cotn, atfh being basically being played "normal" and only 1 mission being a "speedbook" (ATC).--Hallaloolah 14:44, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * AtC has not got new foe spawn points just on the old run path - if you don't "ghostrun", you will get even more pop-ups and spawns - try it - emesis 121.215.34.96 18:46, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Assuming you are talking to me, yes, I know, and I assume the others do too. Hence why I mentioned golem, cotn, and atfh being played normal, and the 1 mission "speedbook atc".  I also mentioned that Anet knew the previous run path in particular and made popup spawns for it.  Whereas the new one has no popups until the every end.

Old Fasioned Nornbear
Use that to run to the spawn locations, dont activate the first res shrine by sticking to the left, kill the H/H on the mandragor, let the nornbear kill you, res next to nornbear, kill norbear, ???, profit. About 4 minutes. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 19:32, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * needs hos and less paradox, any profession can run themselves with that though, it's not too hard-- Relyk  talk  20:17, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like paradox, but why does the page say golem when this is way faster? --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 21:18, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * No idea, but in all honesty it will be probably be faster to do all 4 missions and get 4.5k then.--Hallaloolah 21:23, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mmm that time it takes to get the extra 1.5k isn't much more efficient-- Relyk  talk  21:47, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, 4 min + 2 min + 6 min (12 min = 3k -> 15k/hour) for COTN/ATC/ATFH. Vs 4 min+2min+6min+9 min (21 min -> 4.5k, which is about 13k an hour.  Guess you're right.  No reason to have golem.--Hallaloolah 22:50, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

GOLEM Player
Edited it to correct some inaccuracies and give better advice on AtC and GOLEM. Also got rid of that idiotic discord targeted build as it is useless against destroyers, especially without a discord team.--Shai Halud 21:19, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, an AP caller is one of the most effective builds you an use(as a caster at least) when running spiritway. Don't really need a suggested player bar for that though so w/e. Life   Guardian  21:23, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Destroyer of Thoughts comes in practically every group in this mish and has strong hex removal making AP sort of a bad idea. --Shai Halud 14:19, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dont start your chain with sins promise and then use YMLAD -> sins promise -> finish him before it gets up so it dies before it can use hex removal. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 16:42, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Why Golem?
What happened to Curse Of the Nornbear? It was like 5mins faster... Don't see the point changing --  Jorre <font color="Orange">22225  13:24, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2 sections up. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 14:17, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

still curse of the norn bear
G.O.L.E.M is unneeded...every profession can do "curse of the norn bear" with a proper running build like this Build:Any/A General Shadow Form Runner...in "sin speedbooker"-style. I will change this tomorrow if no one disagrees.Illoyon 19:38, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Archive?
If people aren't using this to run others through books, it should probably be archived. With 7 heroes this page would get messy with variants fast were it to be rewritten. --  Toraen   talk  15:23, 27 August 2011 (UTC)