Archive talk:R/Mo Broad Head Arrow Ranger

Discussion
If it's RA only, you cannot exclude the signet from the bar, it's a must, even more important then the self heal. No res, no party xD. This article should be in stub however.5aiyaN 20 July 2007, 22.17 (GMT +1)


 * Natural Stride and Resurrection Signet in place of Serpent's Quickness and Dodge should do the trick. And two major runes is not recommended. - New meta is the Chewbacca Defence  22:37, 20 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Seconded --Advent Mongoose  [[Image:Hex Breaker.jpg|19px]] (talk ) 12:01, 21 July 2007 (CEST)

Savage shot
If you only have a single interrupt, i'd suggest disrupting shot. This build might encounter energy problems if you use too much skills like screaming shot and try to maintain apply poison at all times.

This bar standard:

Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 18:15, 21 July 2007 (CEST)

I could have sworn that build already existed. Tycn 18:16, 21 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeh, I created back on GWiki, it got unfavored (I know, I know..), and was wiped here. Build:R/Mo BHA Utility. I prefer to run BHA with Shadow Walk instead of MT, and cancel it with NS (similar to a spike, and BHA never misses from adjacent distance), but that's what people run. Let an admin know if you want it restored. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   07:48, 22 July 2007 (CEST)

I think this build can be great just replace the running stance in res signet and use a shortbow if you want the bleeding if not i will preffer other bow skill.


 * the problem with BHA and screaming is the recharge times which means once the conditions are removed theyre gone for a while. i see youve adressed that with serpents quickness, which is good for as long as it lasts, though you may want to cancel it before it expires ie. if you need to block or run away. that said daze is a hard thing to come by and this is a good attempt to use it well SpaceBiscuit 08:25am 28 July 2007 (AEST)

To Krowman's vote:The only time that is a problem is in GvG, when people are smart enough to move. In both TA, and Ra especially, Monks will stand still while you take aim ;). Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 07:16, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Gale/Snares/Bull's Strike owns. --Edru viransu //QQ about me 07:18, 30 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Shadow Walk is better than all them. I see Skak added it as a variant, so I guess I'll delete the BHA build I had in my user space until recently. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   07:32, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

I don't get it!
What's the purpose of being a Monk in this build? Mending touch doesn't have synergy with any other ranger skill in the buid itself.
 * It's simply a better condition removal then most of the other options, such as Antidote Signet, Signet of Malice, or Remedy Signet. Mending Touch removes two conditions, and despite not being a Signet, it is a touch spell, so it's affected by Expertise, making it cheap for Rangers.
 * Just a note... has anyone else noticed how this build runs the exact same skills and attribute levels as the current popular Burning Arrow build? And they both came into being at around the same time. I get the feeling that someone just decided to change the Elite once and found out that the build worked just as well... not complaining, just thought it was a funny thing to note. :D --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 17:49, 4 August 2007 (CEST) &mdash; The preceding comment was brought to you by the leetness of Jioruji Derako. a.k.a. u got served. Nova did not write this comment.
 * That is simply that absolute best bar for a PvP ranger atm. Mending touch is affected by expertise. Great utils, and ints, and condition cover through apply. Just great synergy that's all. Readem (talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 18:05, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * FYI, works great with Prepared Shot as the elite too, hehe. Just switch out Distracting Shot for Screaming Shot, since you'll have plenty of extra energy to spam it with. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 22:46, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Too bad DShot is the best ranger skill and you just swapped it out for 3 degen and 20 or so damage... --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 00:01, 5 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I use Prepared Shot for PvE anyway... I rarely need the extra energy in PvP. Against the average mob, DShot isn't all that important. Disabling a skill for twenty seconds does me now good when that monster's going to die in ten seconds. :D
 * But of course, for higher level areas or PvP, DShot's a good skill to have. Savage Shot and DShot are always interchangeable skills as singletons, as well. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 03:05, 5 August 2007 (CEST)

Clones
This is a clone of the burning arrow ranger and mending cripshot builds, we should just find the majority favorite and put the other two as variants, since it's only an elite different on each one.--Daniel Rendat 23:19, 9 August 2007 (CEST)
 * No. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 23:26, 9 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Different playstyles, different builds. Tycn 10:29, 10 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Great comment there Edru, filled with your reasons of disagreeing with him. At first when i assume that only the burning arrow and broad head arrow builds were the same i didn't think much of it, but after realising that three builds were identical excluding one skill i changed my mind. We have dismissed many builds to becoming variants for just having a few skills in common. I am for taking the most popular build and adding the other elites as variants. Azulaarance 18:23, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * This matter has been discussed and shot down too many times to count. Shadowsin already tried to make one: it failed. [[Image:Shogunshen_Holidaysig2.jpg|11.4px]]<font color="Black">hen <font color=Darkgreen> [contribs]  18:26, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * I know that I didn't offer any reasoning. That's because I and others have done so elsewhere, countless times. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 18:58, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * Fair enough.. --Azulaarance
 * If that does not satisfy you, I will repeat it again: skill bars often contain common skills because those skills offer the best combination of utility and overall effectiveness to whatever elite they are matched with. What makes a Burning Arrow Ranger different from a Broad Head Arrow Ranger is not their elite skill, but their purpose and usage. One applies pressure to the opposing team; the other assists in ganking. If we were to combine all builds with the same set of common skills, we would have one Warrior build using Frenzy + Rush + Bull's Strike; one Paragon build with Aggressive Refrain + Anthem of Flame + "Go for the Eyes!"; one Monk build with Spirit Bond + Shield of Absorption + Gift of Health + Reversal of Fortune; and so on. Builds distinguish themselves in purpose, usage and skills. --[[Image:scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  07:45, 4 January 2008 (EST)

IMO the builds should be put together just as PvP domination mesmer builds are. Different playstyle... so what? Base is always the same. @edit - OK, they are not... but they were xDKravcio 07:56, 3 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That opinion isn't shared by the majority of PvX. The majority agrees with Scotty's comment above. - PANIC!  [[Image:Panic_sig4.png|50px|18px]] <font color="#D70000"> sexiness!  08:10, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Needling Shot
Needling Shot ftw. enough said.24.186.207.198 08:39, 11 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Needling sux. Unexist 21:17, 15 August 2007 (CEST)

Resurrection skill...?
I know, I know... this is a PvP build, but what's the point of being a Monk and using Res Signet? Dr4goN 14:59, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

MT is too good. In a GvG the mesmer would have a hard resurrect anyway, and without FC it's just too easy to interrupt. Tycn 15:03, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

And a mesmer casting res chant for 4 secs isn't easy to interrupt? <_<
 * That'd be why the mesmers carry FoMF. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 08:21, 5 December 2007 (CET)
 * Eh, Res Chant on a mes is relatively difficult to interrupt. Most of the time(64%) it's a little less than 4 seconds, which is fairly quick for a res. 32% of the time, it'll cast in about 2 seconds(you should be switching to a 40%HCT healing set for res chant). 4% of the time it'll cast in less than 1 second. FomF is faster, but Res Chant is hardly slow. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 14:14, 5 December 2007 (CET)

Rapid Fire
I feel would be more useful than apply poison. IAS + Daze ftw.--Coloneh 08:16, 30 September 2007 (CEST)

It could work, covers and degen spreading are more important though. In TA/GvG a warrior would be whacking on a monk, anyway. Tycn 08:21, 30 September 2007 (CEST)

I think i PvE to much. covers are more important in PvP.--Coloneh 19:14, 30 September 2007 (CEST)

FW > Rapid Fire imo, get rid of that horrid flight time. -- Armond Warblade 19:40, 30 September 2007 (CEST)
 * FW does not affect BHA. --69.157.64.199 23:24, 3 March 2008 (EST)

AP > all imo, just run up to the target. problem solved. <font color="Brown">Punjab 19:42, 30 September 2007 (CEST)

Shadow Walk
Shouldn't shadow walk be on the main bar instead of Mending Touch? Its used a lot more imo. <font color="Black">Viet (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:22, 26 November 2007 (CET)
 * Or you could just either BHA snared targets or just run up next to the target instead of losing MTouch awesomeness for a lazier BHA every 30 seconds. That said, Shadow Walk may be better for TA. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 00:38, 26 November 2007 (CET)

Broadhead Arrow, Cripshot Arrow and Burning Arrow
These are all of the same builds and should be merged explaining the different variances with the elite skills for the different playing styles.

This has been tried time and time and time again. NO. -- Armond Warblade 00:21, 4 December 2007 (CET)

GvG?
Never seen this run in any gvg in ages. Even if it did go into gvg, its elite would be such a waste, think we should remove that tag? Og lo 11:00, 2 January 2008 (EST)
 * it's run in condiway occasionally (although usually not over a trapper). &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  15:37, 2 January 2008 (EST)
 * Perfectly viable in appropriate metas, according to top players and theorycraft. Was meta in Eurohex for a while. --&mdash; Edru / QQ  15:40, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Poison Tip Sig
Note: &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.74.221.67 (contribs).


 * But Apply Poison is so much better pressure. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 19:45, 5 January 2008 (EST)
 * No reason not to have Apply Poison, really. --[[Image:scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  23:33, 5 January 2008 (EST)
 * Also, not having a preperation = fail imo :< --J0ttem™ 05:42, 8 January 2008 (EST)
 * As bad as it sounds, replace Savage or Distracting with read the wind. Makes it easier to hit with BHA and whichever interrupt you keep. 71.80.239.27 17:31, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Steps to success with BHA. 1) Recurve bow.  2) Don't be bad. 3) Get other chars to hit the target youre dazing. Tookey  D:<  10:38, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Expertise
Should be noted that this build runs just as effectively with 13 Expertise, as BHA will cost 7 energy either way. This gives enough points to up Marksmanship one, to 11, allowing Dazed to be 100% constant, or one higher rank in Wilderness Survival, making Poison last one second longer. Either way, can't hurt, since the only difference this would make on the build is increasing Savage Shot to cost one more energy...--69.157.64.199 23:31, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * Savage is pretty nearly the most used skill on a BHA ranger's bar and 1 energy every 7 or so seconds is pretty nice when you're playing with only 3 pips anyway. Also, 15 expertise > 14 expertise > 13. Not like running a major is going to make you more vulnerable. &mdash; Edru / QQ  20:58, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Slightly, since you usually run Radiant instead of Survivor on the ranger anyways. But Major might be good here in any case. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:01, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Well, major might make it necessary to run slightly less max energy, but really, your survivability as a ranger is incredible just with nat stride and mtouch. Interrupts make you even more problematic to kill. Extra health is comparatively unimportant for a ranger except against certain spikes. &mdash; Edru / QQ  21:08, 4 March 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, but keep in mind that running BHA means you can't Cripshot and run. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:10, 4 March 2008 (EST)


 * But you can still run Pin Down, but AP + BHA is already really energy intense. At 15, you'd also save 1 energy about every 10 seconds from AP and BHA. On a different note, for RA/CM/AB isn't Charm Animal a typical variant? It helps keep the target from casting and lets you spread/interrupt others more.--JenniferBelle 17:15, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Similarities(again)
I was perusing the RA war builds and found 3 builds that are exactly the same except for extremely minor changes and in defense of the builds, an insightful user said that ranger builds were the same way, and he's correct! This BHA build, Magebane, and the Burning arrow build are one and the same. The bars are *exactly* the same with the exception of the magebane build having an optional slot instead of savage shot and their elites, which are not that different. Burning is simply extra damage and degen on top of poison -> not much need of a whole extra page for usage there. The BHA build is the same way, where BHA is simply a condition-spam skill, teaching how to cover conditions and understanding the arc of BHA also can be done in a variant. Finally, the magebane shot build is the other two, but even more simplified! It takes savage shot and replaces it with a better interrupt, but with the same usage. There you have it, so please, somebody either put these builds together, tell me how i'm wrong, or make them different! --71.202.97.206 03:25, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Note: after more thoroughly perusing this particular build's talk page, i can't help but notice how many other people have had the same idea. GMTA --71.202.97.206 03:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)


 * You're wrong. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:24, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 * To elaborate, the usages are different enough that if we merged them, the page would be an utter mess. --71.229 19:26, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 * [[Image:notsame.JPG|500px]]  Antiarchangel [[Image:Antiarchangel No U Sig.png|19px]] <font color=#C0641B>TROLL  19:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 * You forgot Cripshot, noob ):<  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 19:31, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Epic failure as noted on the image's discussion page. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:32, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

GO FAIL SOMEWHERE ELSE KTHX /kickban  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  19:33, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 * to be fair the guy to whom he was responding when he made the image didnt mention cripshot, so it's understandable that he would leave it out 68.54.150.61 21:25, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

R/Me Epidemic Broad Head Arrow
[build prof=Ranger/Mesmer marksmanship=12+1+3 expert=10+1 wilder=8][Broad Head Arrow][Distracting Shot][Savage Shot][Apply Poison][Epidemic][Natural Stride][Troll Unguent][Resurrection Signet][/build] Just a thought, maybe you couldn't use it on the direct target as Epidemic spreads them to adjacent targets... :\ 24.7.141.45 13:22, 12 May 2008 (EDT)


 * No, mending touch is too good and enemy casters don't generally stand next to each other anyway. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 13:46, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Well how about putting in antidote signet to make up for the lost Mending touch? 70.51.127.116 19:09, 6 December 2008 (EST)
 * Then that sacrifices Troll Unguent, which is also too good to be thrown away. It also doesn't address the point that casters rarely stand next to each other, so Epidemic is not a useful skill. --[[Image:scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (talk / contribs / complain)  22:54, 6 December 2008 (EST)
 * How about the fact it has a PvE tag aswell. Dont you think epidemic is more usefull in PvE. O and Just a sugestion why not take ebon vengard sin and volly instead of savage and volly for aplly poison for PvE of corse --Shavalon slayer 05:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)
 * I have no idea what you just said. Could you rephrase that? --[[Image:scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (talk / contribs / complain)  01:37, 11 December 2008 (EST)
 * All of what he tried to say is covered in variants here, tbh.  Toraen  (Talk  /  Contrib)  04:39, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Antidote Signet
Should be added? -- <font color="#900020">Lann 17:38, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * No. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:51, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * i think we should add it instead of mending touch 72.183.210.160 10:00, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Why?  10:00, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Mend touch is still better than the sig, the sig is for if you need secondary besides monk. No 10:02, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Death's Charge>Shadow Walk.
One second disable attack skills v .75 aftercast, not that hard a choice tbh. Brandnew. 22:41, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * There's no "X is better than Y" between those skills. It's user preference. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:56, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Attributes and Skills
[build prof=Ranger/Monk Expertise=12+1+1 WildernessSurvival=9+1 Marksmanship=9+1][Pin Down][Savage Shot][Concussion Shot][Prepared Shot][Apply Poison][Mending Touch][Natural Stride][Troll Unguent][/build]

Usage
-Maintain Apply Poison

-Concussion Shot any caster, immediately followed by a Prep Shot to regain energy

-Pin down to snare kites or to help you kite

Variants
-You could switch out Savage Shot for Needling Shot

How about
stfu-- Shadow 19:41, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

Real men use Concussion Shot : D --<font color="Darkgreen">J0ttem ™  20:56, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Tbh, real men use Magebane Shot because it's viable in high-end PvP. ــмıкε  нaшк  20:58, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * @ Mike, good fucking luck rupting fast cast mesmers and 40/40 casters with a plethora of 1/4th cast spells to fuck you right up [unless you're a bot-rupt-macro-using shitter like most GvGers who've already been caught, documented and reported to Anet]. --BlazingBurdy 15:04, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Blazing, the comment you just replied to is almost 2 years old. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">16:34, 22 January 2010
 * Urite. --BlazingBurdy 16:35, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Useful again - for Duncan the Black
Replace Resurrection Signet with Frozen Soil (to be microed), and you have a Hero that is very helpful for killing Duncan The Black in Slavers' Exile. Maybe this should be moved to the Hero builds category? --50.46.145.167 10:59, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * We'd unarchive and update this one instead. -- <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 11:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Except you wouldn't gimp your damage by bringing this: spiritway's dissonance rupts most of the stuff Duncan casts anyway. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  11:21, 1 May 2011 (UTC)