Archive talk:N/A Weaken Knees Curser

Weak name, but meh. God box    08:20, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * This build is like telling a good dog to sit. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 09:15, 4 January 2009 (EST)

This was trashed not long ago and tbh it's bad.  Ricky vantof  09:17, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * Counter: Non-retarded monks? Crazy Cow  09:18, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * it's only 46 dps, i believe, which is like flare spamming [[Image:Tai_sig_Image_78.png]] 09:21, 4 January 2009 


 * Highly possible. WK is hawt tho in places like AB and CM.. People run themself to death. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 09:37, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * Unless they have any form of self-heal or a healer in the vicinity.  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  09:38, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * Even then. It's weird to watch monks run themself near/to death and seeing how people start activating Healing Signet so late that they die before it finishes. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 09:41, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * That properly summed up the average JQ player skill. Brandnew.  09:44, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Meh i take augury of death and defile flesh. You can kill turtles with it in like 4 seconds; with defile its like 6 because the mo/p following them are always terrible. Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:47, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * Someone running this build against the carrier I'm following usually horribly fails and gets lol'd at.  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  09:48, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * There isnt a clever monk following all 3 turtles. If you kill a turtle, its like nullifying a quarry from the enemy for 1-2 minutes. Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:51, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * That's just stupid, presuming your opponents are bad, so you can run a mediocre build. Lol, according to your logic I win by using mark of rodgort and spam flare.  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  09:54, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * O because theres a monk following all 3 turtles. Yeye. Presuming your opponents is bad (guarenteed, ive never seen a monk following all turtles) is actually reality instead of dumb theorycrafting everyone in CM is best player in game. Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:56, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * Lol, no, nut there's usually at least 2 monks in any team and as far as i know you win if you have 2 carriers and they only have 1.  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  10:02, 4 January 2009 (EST)

i swear this build got made a couple weeks ago and trashed 09:57, 4 January 2009  
 * So? have you actually used it? It stops the other team getting shit loads of points Dutchess of Rose aka  lukejohnson  - talk 09:59, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * my point is, pvx is retarded sometimes [[Image:Tai_sig_Image_78.png]] 10:02, 4 January 2009 
 * Shitload being 1?  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  10:03, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * O no wen u cap a quarry u only get 1 point nukers suxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx omg Rawrawr Dinosaur 10:03, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * STFU Rawr I was flaming at Luke.  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  10:04, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Im not even going to continue rming. Stop breaking 1RV. 10 nukers + 2 carrier killers would be way more effective than 12 nukers. This is the best carrier killer. Rawrawr Dinosaur 10:06, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * That wasn't 1RV, I changed my vote and rating...  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  10:07, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * wow ricky. you don't kill 1 turtle/jugg the whole match. Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 10:08, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Also; if you want me to do the math to prove this can kill through woh monk i will. Rawrawr Dinosaur 10:12, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * Would be fun to read. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 10:13, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * MATH! I demand MATH! Karate Jesus  10:14, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Keep in mind that this is entirely worked out with the turtle being below 50% health. The builds even more strenuous up to that point.

At standard (14) spec, WoH heals for 216 health. Under defile flesh, WoH heals for 144. This build does 53 dps (19 from shameful, 14+10 from weaken knees, 8 from enduring toxin and 2 from parasitic bond). 144/53= 2.71, so to outheal this you would have to WoH every 2.71 seconds. Under max effieciency, WoH can be used every 3.75 seconds. So, to help outheal this, you need to use patient as well. Under defile, patient heals for 76 health. 144+76 = 220 health. 220/53=4.1. So to outheal this, you need to WoH AND patient every 4.1 seconds. You regenerate 4(1/3) energy every 4 seconds. It costs 10 energy every 4.1 (ill round this to 4, just to be easy) seconds. So you lose 6 energy every 4 seconds. So, in effect, the woh will run out of energy after about 6-7 seconds, or if they go to the depths of their 72 energy high set (ive never ever ever ever seen ANYONE weapon swap in JQ before) it will be 12 seconds. After these 12 seconds, the carrier will die (i cant find their exact health anywhere, but im guessing another 5 seconds with augury). So in effect, versus the most effiecient woh monk in the game using woh and patient at perfect intervals while the turtle is under 50% health the entire time, this build will kill the turtle after 17 seconds. Versus your average monk, 10 seconds. Versus no monk, 5. Rawrawr Dinosaur 10:28, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * Wicked. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 10:32, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * But you're forgetting that you might have other player killing the necro, longbows/far shots killing it, etc etc, hex removal (holy veil + remove hex = ohnoes three hexes if preveiled) and many other variables. [[Image:Tai_sig_Image_78.png]] 10:33, 4 January 2009 
 * Nobody runs hex removals; even if they did you can pbond preveil off, use hex chain in order and re-pbond every time they use a hex remove, which btw makes them run out of energy even faster. This build relies on hexes, so the nec can be dead and it will still work. You're forgetting; getting killed is dumb reason, because any build in JQ can get ganked and killed. Rawrawr Dinosaur 10:35, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * Given you are in fact using Defile Flesh (if it's that strong it should be mainbar)  Ricky [[Image:Ricksawsmface.PNG]] vantof  10:37, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * You also forgot DF in your calculation, and patient isnt affected by defile if the description is right: "Reduces healing target foe receives by 33%. Only skills with the word "heal" in the description are affected." [[Image:Tai_sig_Image_78.png]] 10:38, 4 January 2009 


 * He's human too. DF would be alright to mainbar. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 10:40, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * How does ZB hold up in the maths?  20:04, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * Or the fact that a monk spamming heals on a turtle is so going to get killed while at it? Do people even run ZB..? Recharge is longer. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 20:10, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * The ZB build is rated greater than the WoH build for JQ. And who cares if the monk dies, only the carrier needs to survive. And a non terrible monk, I know they are rare, will remove a hex and then attempt to heal tbh.  20:32, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * If you ran ZB it would do much, much worse. Heals for less than WoH less often and doesnt have patient. Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:10, 7 January 2009 (EST)

So, why wouldn't you use Dwayna's on someone with 5 hexes on him? new mafs plz. Brandnew. 16:45, 7 January 2009 (EST)

fix it
[build prof=n/a curse=12+1+1 dead=12 soul=3+1][weaken knees][shameful fear][enduring toxin][parasitic bond][augury][rend enchantments][disrupting dagger][dash][/build] You're not going to kill the turtle if there's a healer, so there's no point. use Rend on bombers and Disrupting Dagger on RoJ Monks, then you'll be more useful than just killing the turtles-- Christmas Relyk  23:00, 5 January 2009 (EST)


 * smells like utility spirit. --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 23:04, 5 January 2009 (EST)
 * Did you read any of my massive paragraph above? Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:11, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yup, unfortunately that doesn't mean sht when ur dead. luxon Rangers pewpew you, or some random player kills u while monk heals the turtle. theres usually only time to get wk, shameful, toxin before something kills u, and people use life sheath and crap. either ur not gonna kill the turtle with all ur skills, or ull be able to defend shrines with plenty enuf to kill. crippling dagger is just bad anyways because they're dead before reaching the quarry or a monk will keep them alive--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  00:12, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * rawr, thats just terrible theorycraft up there anyways--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  00:13, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ive solo'd loads of turtles straight past monks. Its pretty easy to not get hit by rangers, and if you're on kurz side you control 90% of the shrines 90% of the time anyway. Life sheath really does nothing against this. I just think defile ownzz. Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:43, 11 January 2009 (EST)
 * Actually is 50%/50% while im playing with sht players and if your avoiding rangers ur not casting on turtle. Its hard to get all ur skills cast when luxons control shrine because they attack u when they respawn. anyways hex removal owns although no one brings it. its just retarded u cant just walk by ranger shrines. Dash should be on main bar atl, crippling dagger is a pretty crappy snare although its only one available. Let's just say its not fking over monks for me--Relyk _||_ <font color=#333300> I hammers u! 20:07, 12 January 2009 (EST)

After using this build quite a few times in Jade Quarry, I've found that while it may, or may not actually kill the Carriers, I find, with no form of defense, it quickly gets killed by any Ranger/Assassin/Elementalist. Also, it's difficult to get close enough to use Augury and Crippling Dagger, unless you control the guard shrine (And teams usually don't control the quarry but not the guard shrine.) Finally, because Shameful Fear has the longest cast time, and the shortest duration, it gets removed/interrupted, and that seriously hurts this builds damage. While your math may be solid for out healing a monk, often I found that halfway through the match, monks would double up on the carrier I was attempting to kill, and the carrier would inevitably get away. While this build may good, it is my belief that there are other builds that can do this job just as well, if not better.--Zenroc 06:00, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Then rate it down if it is bad. -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:10, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I've found the build and variations of it very good for Jade Quarry. I usually bring Soul Barbs as another hex and Faintheartedness as some defense against melee/rangers. The only really good counter I've seen for it is a PnH Monk, but most Monks in JQ bring RoJ anyway. PeligrosoPat 18:53, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, Soul Barbs is a must in this build for those carriers (also any target can be annoyed/kept busy with it and keeping applying Parasitic Bond), since Toxin triggers it every 5 secs too =) Real monks can be a prob, but hybrid ones mostly not... too many hexes that are fast re-apply-able. OAdTYwD71hMYzAZfuxwegPPBBA (#6 can be replaced with Hexer's Vigor) | equip Pk5hisyaUTesoKSFyUEpnmyUEZHIRMFpNKBUEZYdxUEZYB --Birchwooda Treehug 02:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

You know wot's funny?
The only reason this build has any remote success is that the idea of running PnH with Divine Boon is completely beyond the grasp of most players in JQ. 128.255.216.144 19:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

your face? Brandnew. 19:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ym. 128.255.216.144 19:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why would you want to run a PnH with Divine Boon just to counter one specific build that's not even very common? Ineffective and stupid. Godbox  15:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * PnH with Divine Boon counters a whole lot of shit and effectively frees up a slot on your bar. inb4 WoH and ZB are better. 128.255.195.88 18:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Heals for shit and has shit attributes though. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  07:25, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

A/N Variant would have greater DPS?
Calculated with 14 Deadly Arts and 12 Curses,

10s: 52 DPS (-10 Degen, 13+19 Damage) 7s: 33 DPS (-10 Degen, 13 Damage) To end: 10 DPS (-5 Degen)

At 19s: 771 Damage. At 23s: 811 Damage.

With 14 Curses and 12 Deadly Arts,

10s: 49 DPS (-9 Degen, 14+17 Damage) 9s: 32 DPS (-9 Degen, 14 Damage) To end: 8 DPS (-4 Degen)

At 19: 778 Damage. At 23: 810 Damage.

Basically, if you can kill the carrier before 19 seconds, or need to wait past 23 for some reason, then you'd do better damage with the Assassin. Even in between, the gap in damage seems so negligible that you'd want to go with the Assassin all the time. Is there any reason why I shouldn't run this on an Assassin? 66.219.148.4 02:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Soul Reaping DasGhoti 23:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 4 soul reaping and necro have less armor--Relyk 00:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I tried as assa, the energy can really be a problem (sucks waiting for energy to cast everything - slows u down once you're empty) - I already spared expensive 15 ene skills that I usually use as WK necro. It's still fun and works but because of the energy I prefer the necro. However I used this build for my assa when I've the Zaishenquest of Jade Quarry. --Birchwooda Treehug 19:09, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

A-Net killed this build
I used to pwn jugernauts and turtles with this... Since the update this build died... Thank you A-Net :)
 * It still works, just takes a few seconds longer to kill them.[[Image:Signature-Liger414.png|19px]]<font color="SaddleBrown">The Liger <font color="Darkgoldenrod"> speak to me  13:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Now how unique isn't someone random QQ'ing on a nerfed builds page? -- -Ch  ao  s-   18:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Tbh. <font color="Red">Ben <font color ="Cyan">..Squint 01:03, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * i hear yaBluetapeboy 03:35, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

with the new flux
this is going to kick ass.
 * Certainly synergises with Shameful Fear, at least. Would say you won't need to take WK if an inherent effect is already taking it's place; use a more useful elite? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 10:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * WK would still trigger. It would be on top of the flux effect so it's still doing all its damage. --  Toraen   talk  15:26, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Still doing damage, but there is bound to be a better effective hex or elite to compensate the damage over time already being dealt by the Flux. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 16:38, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Killing faster is important though, since you need to be able to power through a monk's healing, and there aren't any other helpful elites in Curses or Deadly Arts for this build's job. The damage on this is still lower than dual wastrel's from a mesmer though. --  Toraen   talk  16:51, 1 August 2011 (UTC)