Build talk:R/any JQ Barrage

Pvx needs a Barrage JQ bar (Barrage is Meta if you haven't noticed). Smity 23:54, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * only shitters use barrage in jq, which a lot do, but that doesn't mean pvx needs it.-- Relyk  talk  23:56, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's really not that bad (can cap quickly and has great defending ability), and it would be nice if pvx would store an optimized bar as reference for anybody wanting to use Barrage in jq (there are alot who do). Imo it is outdone by some caster builds but should be atleast in the "good" category. Smity 00:05, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

K barrage is kewl but this is lacking some serious SPLINTEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR--Pirate 00:25, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * wanted to add it as one of the optionals but wasnt sure what to suggest for atts Smity 00:31, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Splinter fucks with the atts too much, i'd add a variant for it (11-11-8 or something i guess) but i dunno if it should be mainbar.--TahiriVeila 00:34, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe 12 exp 8+1 marks, and 10 channeling to hit the Splinter break point? Smity 00:45, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Run a major marks i think. Yeah that could work.--TahiriVeila 00:59, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * barrage is slow at capping, even with sw. sw+barrage is meta if you actually want to post this and dual major runes work fine-- Relyk  talk  02:24, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * PvP version of SW is bad anyways. --[[Image:Jimp.jpg|19px]] WhiteAsIce 18:35, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really add that much damage which is why it's not main barred. Smity 21:13, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * its faster than spamming barrage alone, and again, you said you needed barrage jq because it's meta. The only time people run it is with sw.-- Relyk  talk  03:07, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Optionals
If anybody else has any good ideas for options feel free to add them so we can get this thing goin'. Smity 18:04, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * A conjure could help e.g. Conjure Lightning
 * Indent your comments with ":" and sign your statements with 4 tilds (~). I looked into the conjure thing, and what I found is that lowering marksmanship and losing the vampiric bow mod makes you lose just about as much damage as conjure gives, so it doesn't really make sense to use it since it can be stripped, unless you have another reason to invest into an elemental attribute. Smity 23:03, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * You also have to take into consideration that Ranger npcs have an extra +30 armor vs elemental damage (as all rangers do), meaning you will actually do alot less damage with a conjure. Smity 23:15, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Melandru's Epidemic is superior, and more versatile. Poison Tip Signet -> Melandru's Shot -> Epidemic; use Concussion Shot to shut down cappers (very low energy use build, so easy to afford) and you can both cap and defend quarries as a ranger nicely. 72.226.105.96 21:11, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure barrage does alot more aoe dps than 7 degen (which is 14 dps). You are also forced to aggro by using epidemic (which means you can't cap from a distance and hurt yourself).  I could see that Melandru's Shot might be a good option vs. players, but considering JQ is perhaps 70% capping and 30% pvp it doesn't seem like the optimal choice for JQ. Smity Smitington 21:52, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * melandrus is for killing turtles/juggers smity-- Relyk  talk  00:19, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Show me a melandru's bar that is good at capping too. Maybe volley + splinter?  With barrage you can cap semi quickly while still filling your optionals to be an effective carrier killer.  Depends which is more important, capping, or kill carriers, I would think capping. Smity Smitington 00:32, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * killing carriers takes priority, if you wanted to focus more on capping, why are you using a ranger?-- Relyk  talk  03:55, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * See ppl's votes. Not goin over this again with you. Smity Smitington 15:00, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * IA+Apply+Pin Down tbh Dok 22:30, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it, this looks vaguely familiar... --[[Image:Jimp.jpg|19px]] WhiteAsIce 22:24, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about a valid argument and stop being an autist?-- Relyk  talk  22:40, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

IMO
Best bar imo. Savage shot always seems like over kill, I typically am focusing so much on capping that I rarely end up using it. Splinter imo isn't that great, it takes one second to cast, which is as long as it takes to active barrage, and does maybe a little bit more damage than one barrage on its own. Also, it makes capping messier because things die unevenly. It does has a nice spike to it but that rarely comes in handy. Heart of Shadow is amazing imo, it should be main barred. It allows you to get up and down stuff without using stairs meaning you get around the map super fast with it. Just my 2 cents. Smity Smitington 16:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Personally if i were to run barrage on my ranger i would run something similar to that it is great for capping and degening carriers to death and also getting around the map like a pro... could be meta if barrage in JQ was good 76.6.154.0 19:35, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You describe the build's fulfillment of the essential abilities as excellent yet imply that the build is not good; Smity Smitington 05:59, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe he's saying Barrage is not good because it is not good-- Relyk 09:56, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe your circular logic is just as meaningless as his contradictory logic. Smity Smitington 14:10, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Variant
Hello I am new to PvX but longtime user of GWW. I have read that we are guided to not display builds that are similar so I made this scrap alternative: My Barrager I read that it is not allowed to edit builds that have already been given a score. I come with an alternative build because the current one has 3 optional slots with waaay too many others to choose from. When reading the usage it also gives me the impression that the page was hasted as "PvX with no Barrage build... no way!" only. So im sharing with you all a more elaborated point of view.Yoshida Keiji 07:52, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You can edit any build any time. Doesn't matter what tag it has or if it's been vetted. Having too many optionals is always better than too few. I wouldn't say the current page has too many optionals, especially split into categories. The build you list is a possible build, but arguably pretty terrible. I'm not sure where you get the impression the page was rushed, if you feel the usage or other sections need improvement, you can easily do it yourself.-- Relyk 09:02, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Splinter should be mainbar imo. Anyone feel like comparing the numbers in terms of numbers of attacks required to kill a Mine with and without splinter? [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  10:47, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's pretty obvious it's faster :/-- Relyk 16:31, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * takes 1 sec to cast then .75 sec after cast delay, all for an aoe spike that does the same damage as one use of barrage, which also takes 1 second or so to activate. You really don't get anything from splinter besides wasted skill slots and attribute points :/ Smity Smitington 22:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Cheers smity, thats exactly the data I wanted. I guess the only advantage is you can do splinter a bit earlier than when you combat. but thanks for explaining why it isn't mainbar. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  23:02, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * How does it do the same damage as one barrage?-- Relyk 23:05, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * at 10 channeling splinter hits for 22 damage on 3 foes 4 times, so its like doing 66 damage four times. Barrage hits for 60+ Smity Smitington 23:31, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There are 2 possible outcomes for a shrine assuming you aim at the center with Barrage, a 1-3-3-3-2 or 2-3-3-3-1 distribution of splinter weapon hits. Aiming at the center right/left NPC should guarantee the opposite corner NPC doesn't get a splinter trigger assuming which arrows SW affects radiates outward from your target and is not random. So you should be able to get a distribution of 3-6-6-6-3 with 2 Splinter Weapons. Assuming you pre-cast splinter weapon, it should take like 3 seconds do deal 66 damage to both corners and 136 damage to the central NPCs on top of Barrage. Needling Shot or Savage Shot will let you finish off any survivors. That caps faster than waiting to cycle Barrage again.
 * It takes 6 or sometimes 7 Barrages to take down a quarry as you hit just under 60 most of the time. If you use Splinter Weapon, you cut a couple seconds off time spent actively capping. It also makes the center Ranger shrines go faster as you don't have high ground and you need to kill them before you get killed. It saves even more time on shrines with 4 Rangers as you cut out the need for 2 Barrages iirc. That's worth using compared to just being lazy and spending the extra time spamming Barrage to cap.-- Relyk 07:01, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Am I missing something, or does barrage do 50-60 only on criticals? Assuming all 5 arrows critical, that's ~300 total. SW is 264 total, every time. Pvp version SW stinks, but as Relyk said, each SW is about the same total dmg as a barrage, so it's only ever useful for more spike or if you're stretched for time (i.e. always). I'm not aware of any other barrage buff that comes close to doubling a barrage dps Fianchetto 17:50, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't increase dps though. You aren't saving any time at all.  Sure, it will double the damage of one use of barrage, but it comes at the cost of casting splinter, during which time you could have just used barrage and started attacking earlier.  Hitting for over 60 it pretty normal on the 60AL npcs, the damage calculation is kind of complicated, so you just gotta do it yourself to see.  Also don't forget the +5 damage from vampiric.  When I get a change I'll do some time measurements for each so we can be sure (I would take the time to cast the first splinter into effect).  Really the only thing it might have going for it is the extra spike if you are dealing with a monk, or if the shrine is heavily guarded and you want to minimize the time you are at the shrine (might shave off a second, but is made less important by your absurd attacking distance).  You also have to consider how it takes up a skill slot and a lot of attribute points.  I don't think it comes with enough advantages to warrant it's use when it hurts you in other areas. Smity Smitington 03:40, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Shaving capping time by a second or two is worth more than any other variants-- Relyk 06:10, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that you get what I am saying. You aren't shaving any time.  You are only shaving time spent actually attacking the shrine, but at the cost of having to cast splinter (which stops you for 1.75 seconds before you start attacking). The end result is that the shrine is captured at the same time.  You might find it slightly advantageous that you don't have to attack as long or that you get a better spike, but I don't think these warrant the skill slot and attribute points when you could be bringing skills that actually help you in other areas and help you get to places more quickly (like heart of shadow). Smity Smitington 16:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * On 60 AR practice targets, 14 marks, I'm hitting 61 on criticals, average ~45. Although I have to admit Mending Touch+Natural Stride is more worth the attribute points Fianchetto 16:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I'm hitting 78 on crits and averaging around 55, sounds like you might need to play with your set up a bit. Smity Smitington 23:19, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like fianchetto needs to customise the pve bow + give it a useful bonus damage mod :p [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  12:25, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was planning to sell it and buy more consets, and it didn't have 15^50 and vamp. I guess that makes pvp splinter even more ineffective. Anyway my general rule is if a pvp ranger bar hasn't Natural Stride, it's auto-subpar. Maybe just tone down the Expertise and use zealous more often? Fianchetto 16:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * yea you could, we could probably put natural stride up in the variants along with the suggested atts. TBH this is JQ, you don't need boat load of blocking, and there are other running skills (dash).  Also without a prep, wilderness survival is less appealing, but it would make a stronger poison tip signet. Smity Smitington 20:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)