Build talk:Rt/any Spirit Spammer

Any/Rt
Could run this, right? I have a caster professions in mind, ergo 4 pips/30ene.

It's possible yes. I tried this build on my ranger today and it worked great, but instead of 3+1 spawning power, I used 3+1+3 expertise. Lenaerts 17:25, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

--Legendary Catrin 11:54, August 1, 2010 (UTC) 12 channeling, 11 communing, 6 + 1 + 2 expertise would do better

About
I've been using this build for quite a while, and I doubt I'm the only one using this already. But I felt like sharing this with everyone. So, here it is. It is basically a spirit spam with allegiance skill attached to it to put it simply. On the math/damage side. It is (25+18)/2(pain) + (22+18)/1.75(blood) + (20+18)/2(vamp) + (17*2+18)*36/48/2(anguish) ~= 84.5 Damage/second(armor ignoring). On the healing side... too lazy to calc. :P Have a nice day. -- Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 20:55, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

Boon of Creation = Not Needed. With offering of spirit, your energy management should be fine, escecially since you can increase channeling and make offering of spirit more effective with lower spawning power. ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  16:14, 23 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I've simply made it possible to change with other spirits which have (much) higher energy costs to adept to the situation and still have none~minimal energy problems while casting painful bond as much as possible at the same time. Right now, yes, it does almost too well in the energy department. Painful bond really is however a huge energy spell to repeat every ~13 seconds. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 20:04, 23 August 2007 (CEST)

you definitely do not need boon. My preference would probably be to fit either anguish or SoM --Thc 00:20, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

im changing it to my way: this build has a lot of potential. --Thc 21:31, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

notes on energy usage: Anguish: -25E/48 sec = -1.56 pips Painful bond: -15E/13 sec = -3.46 pips draw spirits: -5E/10 sec = -1.5 pips pain/blood song/vampirism: negligable (more or less)

offering of spirit: +11E/15 sec = +2.2 pips Natural regen: +4 pips

Total: -0.32 pips

So you can see, you don't even really need boon of creation. In fact, you probably don't even really need OoS

Boon is not only for energy but for health as well don't just rub that part out. Without boon, pain, vamp and bloodsong are no longer negligible. They will die before their full duration. There is a part where anguish really fails to co-op with the rest of the build. it only lasts 39seconds. So, from battle to battle, there is no moving around (as it is gone) of the spirits and fails to deliver the punch at the very beginning which also provides chance of being interrupted. Additionally, unlike other spirits, you cannot use them as saftey barriers anymore since you cannot risk it of dying. It throws off the usage by quite a lot. Anguish with ritual lord really is probably the strongest attack spirit, BUT without it, it provides down time. so even with painful bond, it delivers only (17*2*+18)39/48/2 = 21.1damage per sec vs say pain which does (25+18)/2=21.5. It's not such a great big addition damage wise vs any other spirits in reality. There is no point of using anguish over any other and it probably is wiser to put the extra spirit with something other than just damage as well such as interrupts or enchant strips, etc. Second, i've already mentioned that it was designed to have extra boost in the energy for the ability to carry more expensive spirits or spells (don't forget the optional slot). So without boon, according to the energy calc above, it cannot deliver. The two pvxcodes are for the template codes, so you do need both of them as they are often done in other builds as well. Lastly, melee is spelt with one e (later edit, lol spelt it wrong again, and yes i did spell it wrong at the beginning, but correction = wrong, correction to correction = also wrong. melee = correct). -- Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 20:08, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

None the less, i will yield to the idea of no boon and +anguish since now it's two ppl didn't like extra energy idea too much. Extra damage doesn't hurt anyways. lol Did a little reorganizing and added 2nd template code again. Also edited top calculation of damage. -- Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 20:55, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

lol i'm making too many edits in a row... kinda like double posting in forums i guess... If anyone is wondering what in the world i'm talking about about template codes when they look exactly the same... They actually do have different template codes in reality as the have different skill numbers. But I'm guessing that pvxbig codes rn't updated enough to accomodate for it. Both of those template codes will appear as invalid template codes in GW right now. So to speak, it's for the prep of future. lol -- Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 21:06, 25 August 2007 (CEST)
 * 3 comments: (1) wonderful build, if already known, (2) a variant would be to use wanderlust + earthbind combo, and (3) a variant would be to run this as a ranger primary, using expertise to reduce spirit costs, and giving you a more dynamic playstyle. 66.131.21.189 18:02, 26 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Expertise only works for Ranger skills. That's what the attribute description states anyway. Unless you're thinking of running Ranger spirits of course. --AMFan

Notes/See Also
Painful Echo is a dead edit link.

I love the damage with this build, and it works wonderfully with Minion Master. If you're willing to risk spirit HP, you can max Channeling and Communing and drop Spawning to 3 and, if you maintain distance, safely do a few extra points of damage (as expected, though, melee attacking backline with destroy the spirits rather easily).Thorton2006 20:39, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Template codes
The template codes provided, both Luxon and Kurzick, do not appear to be valid codes
 * This is a bug with pvx template thing... The plus (+) symbol isn't saved and you get a space when you try to save it. You'll have to copy/paste the code unfortunately. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (T|C) 17:34, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Anguished Was Lingwah
What about this pot vs actual pain? Provides a stronger pain and can be dropped after spirits are put down. Maybe add to variants? (Mr Pink57)
 * AWL is 3x more costly than actual pain. The summon spirits removes the need to do the drop-summon action. They also do same damage. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (T|C) 17:34, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

The elite
How about swapping the elite for energetic was lee sa?
 * EWLS is a really really small energy boost with a down side. It removes the weapons' boost of your energy capacity. On top of that, you need to spend 10 energy to get it. It puts you in a pretty crappy position after you cast it. To make matters worse, EWLS only lasts a short period of time. At 9 spawning power, it's about 0.3 energy per sec on average. OoS on the other hand averages 0.72 energy per sec with 13 channeling this build offers.. It's simply just so much more. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (T|C) 17:34, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Ranger
I'm surprised to see that build, because it's the same one I use on my Ranger whenever I need to defend an area (e.g. GOLEM). The expertise means that you can spam those spirits plus one more spirit whenever they die. Alaris 16:05, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Most of the energy is spent by casting painful bond hex, not the summon itself. But I admit running spirit with expertise sounds intriguing. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (T|C) 19:39, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Union?
I seriously think that Union would be a good choice for the optional slot. Firstly this spirit is very handy. It takes pressure off the whole party for a while. Secondly it lasts around 50 seconds so it can be raised outside battle and summoned in the battle without it dying before it arrives (:P). Thirdly it has a pretty fair casting cost (15 energy). It's only weakness is it dies fairly quickly due to rapid loss of health- however Summon Spirits's fairly decent healing will keep it on the battlefield longer and therefore prolong the protection of your party while your offensive spirits do the wrecking. Any thoughts?--81.151.112.71 16:14, 10 November 2008 (EST)

Ghostly Might
With the update of the signet it would make this sooo much better but im wondering on how the energy will be without Offering =\ and if it is to tight would we be able to substitute it for a lesser energy managment skill?Fire and deaths 17:44, 12 December 2008 (EST)
 * The best option would be to chuck in Boon of Creation under optional and hope for the best. Or a secondary profession with an energy management skill could be added. Agreed though, with SoGM, this build would rock even more.--Grandmaster Chen 18:55, 12 December 2008 (EST)
 * Spirit Siphon - this is another option.--Grandmaster Chen 19:14, 12 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well would only give u like what..2-4 energy? even spamming that every 3 secs might not be to good.Boon of creation seems like the best option or mabye go /Me for .Fire and deaths 19:56, 12 December 2008 (EST)
 * Power drain is good, but it would mean having to spend points on Inspiration magic therefore weakening your other attributes somewhat.--Grandmaster Chen 08:08, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Essence Strike, at higher levels of channeling, can provide energy management close to OoS if you choose to use Ghostly Might over it.
 * Nah, 8 seconds rechrage and only 3 points of magic isn't too good. I think BoC is the best option so far.--Grandmaster Chen 08:36, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Aha, how about Weapon of Renewal?--Grandmaster Chen 08:55, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * A grand total of 1 energy gain! WOW--[[Image:Altruismliger.jpg|19px]] Liger414  talk  08:56, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Alright, alright, stay calm! BoC it is then. Spirit Siphon would raise you 12 energy in 12 seconds also which IMO is pretty good. With a +2, -35 Channeling rune added it would raise you 16 energy in 12 seconds which beats OoS somewhat (although it's less renewable and more awkward to cast than OoS).--Grandmaster Chen 09:04, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Anguish, Vampirism, Bloodsong, Pain, Shadowsong, Fury... + Painful Bond & SoGM... + hero buffs = sustainable frag-fest.
 * (1) Olias JB-Minion Bomber Hero, (2) Livia BiP-Restorer Hero, (3) Razah WoQ-Channeler Hero.
 * Averaging 90-220 damage per second, for an average of 600-1,200 damage per 5 second increments.
 * Deal (average) 32,000 damage over 180 seconds, for an average of 175 dps over course of 1 hour of testing.
 * Death accuring after 3 seconds for Master of Damage (let alone HM-bosses) -- PRICELESS ^_^
 * There are some things Rits can't buy or do... for everything else... there is Signet of Ghostly Might!
 * --Falconeye 07:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Ponder my über PvE logic
So I is castin mah spirits, and I'm like "Lawl silly pve nubcakez I is pwnzoring u's". So now I wantz to move mah spirits and pwnzor another nubcake pve mob. I cast Summon Spirits, and then a icky pve monster uses his hurtful AoEs on the huge stack of spirits! ONOES.  Life  05:38, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Bump.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 04:16, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Bump.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * they die and you recast them. but i just got trolled so who cares.24.46.41.245 19:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Or you be smart and only use Summon Spirits to move spirits out of whatever AoE damage is occuring. Durp!  [[Image:Benjammn311Sig5.png]] 00:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Or be even smarter, aggro the mob, moe back and let your frontline take em, then hit Summon??? That's what I do... :)Anwyn 09:39, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * OR be smart and use MM-hero + Summons to provide spirits the freedom to slaughter ^_^
 * Unless you haven't invested in Spawning power, your spirits can ussually survive the full duration of most AoE spells. This build is extremely powerful!--81.156.111.146 18:02, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Video link
I made a short video of myself using this build on a couple of NPC's just incase anyone wanted to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mih1q2ISpcg&feature=channel_page 86.156.241.53 22:11, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * i'm pretty sure a hamster could run this build properly. it is overly basic.-- Ikimono Needs more "good" Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

June Update
If the rumored Rit skill buff is true, this build could become meta for Ritualists Mazza558 20:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They won;t be buffed to that extent, and offensive spirits are still pretty bad.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:28, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * SIGNET OF GHOSTLY MIGHT. it says you're wrong, Life. it also says you should take painful bond for pew pew. /wave ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  21:16, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you bring SoGM,, that means you cant bring AP, which means your spirits are only useful every other fight.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 22:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Basically, you're your own walking 8-man team! ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you bring SoGM you can just grab spirit Siphon for good energy managment, and if you have the brains to use summon spirits, AP's recharge isn't necessary since your spirits won't be dying 24/7.--81.151.115.162 18:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow massive rit buff. Takes only 3/4 of a sec now to summon a spirit! This build is better than ever now! Also spirit siphon is awesome energy management now.--81.151.115.162 21:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hum, why isn't this build great anymore? If it was great before the update, it should be ultra great now, shouldn't it? Dionyssios 11:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, wtf happened? Saul Lachance 16:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree completely with the two comments above. This build should be better than 4.75 with the recent buff. I tried it the other day and it was devastating, fared a lot better in PvE than my R/Rt barrager does. Vote 5 stars!--86.146.2.51 16:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Frosty's rateing tanked it, we need one more 5-5 for great. which is sad, because it got buffed and dropped in rating. Roland Cyerni 17:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been using the build before the buff and I though it was good then. Now it is just godly. 5-5 for definite.--Grandmaster Chen 17:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

The Signet of Spirits / Boon of Creation synergy!
With : Boon of Creation / Disenchantment / Signet of Spirits / Painful Bond /Shadowsong / Pain (or any low energy spirit) / Bloodsong (AkA "The Survivor") / Summon Spirits

There you go : Awesome energy management, very good damage dealing, great number of spirits makes for good spirit walls, great recast (Ss and Dis last 30 seconds, reload 30 seconds means you have them almost infinite too) That build has all it needs. I know Anger Suffering and Hate do not attack the same target simultaneously, but since Disenchantment and ShadowSong switch targets that makes for great AoE damage + good spikes on first attacks (5 spirits attacks at once).

Big up for Boon because it allows great cast under fire, since the life income of a full spawn is just great (over 200 HP) and the energy management is just perfect.

We just did ToPK and that build was a rock it saved us manytimes because of the self heal and blinding and the enchant removal. Boon of creation being often removed during its cooldown, i spent some fights without its support, and the fact that you get 5 spirits for 10 energy in 3 seconds (max) was a real kick! That means the build works under any condition and that is just great.

Give it a try and OoS will seem weak, SoGM i dont know...but what a SoGM build might bring in term of damage dealing should be negligible when facing the lack of Energy management and Self heal.

For those who flame BOON : the prefight cast leaves you with your WHOLE energy bar...making it very easy to maintain even the 15 cost of both ShSg and Dis, even when boon gets removed.


 * I actually agree with this, I too think the following should be mainbarred (change attributes to whatever is deemed fit). Three extra spirits equal more dmage output AND energy and I have never found energy management to be an issue simply by weapon switching in the very rare cases I actually need it.

[build prof=Rt/? com=11+1 cha=11+1+1 spa=8+1][Painful Bond][Signet of Spirits][Pain][Vampirism][Bloodsong][Anguish][Summon Spirits (Kurzick)][Boon of Creation][/build]

Selket Shadowdancer 14:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm... I prefer spirit siphon to boon, but I guess it's a matter of opinion. As for mainbarring, I would disagree. Although I do agree that this is generally the best bar (Spirit Siphon/boon and SoS in optional slots), I think it's better to leave the slots open so that there is more choice for people depending on preference and situational reasons (for example in some situations you may want Wanderlust as your elite for the knock-down, perhaps against bosses).--Grandmaster Chen 14:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * As of now, that build is powerful yes, but it is not useful. In my opinion in order to render this build really good, two of the spirits should be swapped for Disenchantement and Shadowsong. Those deal about 2/3rd dmg of the "normal" spirits (pain) but the added blindness and enchantement removal proves useful. Moreover, those 2 spirits swith "intelligently" between targets to maximize the spreading of their effect, and that synergizes well with both Painful Bond (AoE Hex) and Signet of Spirits, because Anger, Hate and Suffering have much trouble focusing the same target so they tend to aim at different targets in the mob. Of course it means that the damage, a tad lower (negligible) is more widespread, so you need a real damage dealer to finnish off your targets, however, it wears down a mob with tremendous efficiency because then it acts as an AoE ele without the downside of skill recharge (spirits are up 24/24) AND it goes a long way toward suppressing physicals and enchanters. Please comment.

Actually I'm going to go with Chen on the energy skill. Spirit Siphon is best as you can't have it removed. I still vote SoS mainbar, it's about the spirit tanking more than anything else. Having 7 spirits, alongside a minion bomber, bodyblock an entire mob is incredibly OP. Selket Shadowdancer 20:00, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow...
Although I've never tried it, I can imagine 6 of these guys (+2 monks) being devastating. With SoS that's 42 spirits active all delivering crushing damage. Plus painful bond can be spread easier.--Grandmaster Chen 12:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * There can only be one of each spirit up at a time within a certain range (which is almost as large as Radar-range). Six of these guys equals seven spirits on the map, and that's with SoS on the bar.
 * You could probably manage something if you used two Ritualists with different spirits between them (one with SoS and one with Wanderlust, perhaps), but that's about the extent of the offensive choices... -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  23:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Vaettir Farm
Did you know you can solo kill all the 60 Vaettirs inside Jaga Morain, im sorry if this was already tested out but its pretty good--``Ritualist``01 18:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You can also Solo anything in UW in HM or NM. Drop a skill for basic hex removal and maybe a self heal and armor of unfeeling. Takes a long time obviously, but entirely doable.12.6.238.154 07:53, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

STOP USING THIS BUILD IN TEAMS!!
Freaking noob rits... learn to synergize with a team, not create problems! Either pick full channeling or full communing, NOT BOTH! When you run this build, you are saying "Hey, the rest of you rits can go find another team, because I am hogging all the spirits!" Try this build... it is WAY MORE EFFECTIVE and it lets someone else take up the slack and actually run a communing build. [build prof=Rt/? name="Ritualist Channelling" com=6 cha=12 spa=11][Summon Spirits (Luxon)][Painful Bond][Spirit Siphon][Vampirism][Bloodsong][Signet of Spirits][Armor of Unfeeling][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][/build] Cast spirits, summon to desired location (they are tanks.. USE THEM AS TANKS! Close to action is preferred!!)  Cast Ebon Assassin to occupy them, cast Painful Bond on the middle guy, back up behind spirits... watch yellow numbers go across screen. It's easy and does way more damage. If you get low on energy, Siphon it. Armor of Unfeeling for Hard Mode.

GREAT! Now another rit can actually join you without you being a retard! They can run something like this: [build prof=Rt/P com=12 cha=11 spa=2 comma=6][Summon Spirits (Luxon)][Anthem of Disruption][Spirit Siphon][Pain][Anguish][Shadowsong][Signet of Ghostly Might][Death Pact Signet][/build] Yay! You are now part of the solution and not part of the problem!
 * So funny. - Athrun Feya [[Image:Athrun snow sig.gif]] 23:27, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol. I mean, maybe I've missed something major here, but surely the whole point of this build is that it's a single character build? You don't need to find another Rit to help you. Also, you don't need to share your loot with another Rit. Is your objection really that the build works too efficiently and so people should split it between two people so that other Rits don't feel left out? Because you're "hogging all the spirits"? Lol.
 * P.S. EwLS is pretty rubbish tbh, it gains you 6.67 energy every 20 seconds (like, one pip - less than if you count the casting time) and takes two seconds to cast. And that's only 'cos you've specced it so high. Also you might want runes. 188.74.101.228 23:33, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well said guy above me. If you want to spam spirits with another rit run the Archive:Team - Dual Spirit Spam build, not some lame builds that use Dissonance, Ewls and spirit "tanks".--86.143.109.7 00:31, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Yes the WHOLE POINT is a single char build: IE- SOLO! People are using this in GROUPS because they don't know any better. You tell them "Go channeling and I will go communing." and their brain short circuits. And that first build is way more effective than the main build, especially in hard mode. Fixed 2nd build for the whiners :)


 * Build on the page had much better dps. Spirits should only be used as tanks in an emergency; MMs are the real tanks- spirits should be used mainly for damage and NOT tanking. Armor of unfeeling is rendered pointless by summon spirits and evas is inferior to an Anguish spirit with painful bond synergy. This build is fine in groups. Most groups don't have more than one rit. If there's only 1 rit in the build run this. If there are multiple rits (lets say three), one could run this, one could run healer and one could run MM. Hybrid channeling/communing spirit spammers are surprisingly better than a specialised communing or specialised channeling spirit spammer.--86.144.225.219 20:15, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Ran the build on main page to test it: Mobs in HM just rolled over them like they weren't there, team died. Ran my top build right behind it: Mobs in HM died quickly, spirits shielded rest of team from dying, and I didn't have to recast spirits. You forget that spirits are almost always attacked first, they are very effective at body-blocking, and armor of unfeeling keeps them there for a LONG time. If you are taking just DPS into account, you are either not playing in Hard Mode, or you are missing how overpowered rits really are.


 * This build isnt about letting your spirits "tank", its about mitigating damage like a mm does. When ur party isnt being overwhelmed by enemies, you can deliver massive damage with this build and the spirits serve as an excellent distraction when you ARE being overwhelmed. I pretty much soloed the endboss in frostmaw burrow's on hardmode and that wasnt even my solo version of this build.


 * U need to spam moar summon spirits.--86.146.2.23 00:19, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * AoU is decent, but Spirits will still get destroyed quickly on the frontline in HM. So even if you do take AoU you still shouldn't use your spirits as walls. Also switch out EVAS for pain or anguish. BTW AoU is still included in the variants so it's not like it has been completely excluded from this build.--Grandmaster Chen 11:15, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Who plays in teams anymore? Mason717 05:58, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * To the first guy in this heading, i'm going to put this in the simplest terms possible... you... are... a... dumbass. Why would you want to take up two people in the party to do what one person can easily do? By having one person run this extremely effective build in the party, instead of two people running weaker versions, you free up another slot for another damage dealer, healer, supporter, tank, whatever. Good job trying to flame everyone who disagreed with you though! Oh, and the all caps header was a nice touch as well Kurotou Shadestryke 05:01, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

How about a Wanderlust/Disenchantment/earthbind/shadowsong alternate build? It would synergize with the normal SoS. Channeled strike + armor of unfeeling could be used to mantain health on wanderlust/earthbind, extra painful bonds would allow all enemies to take damage. Plus, this build is a lot crazier than normal SoS and requires much more micro. Infernal-dragon 07:43, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Summon Spirits
After a good amount of hours playing this build and a bit of testing on Isle of the Nameless, I can confirm that Summon Spirits does not cause all of the spirits to have the same target. The spirit AI is kind of erratic; they seem to prefer targets with lower health, but more often than not it is random. On the other hand, if your party isn't in combat and you wand/hex a mob, your spirits will focus fire on it (obvious to anyone who has spent a fair amount of time with this build), and then go on randomly firing after the first guy is killed. Summon Spirits doesn't seem to help with that.--99.230.145.201 22:24, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that's an old note. We've known that for some time. Karate [[File:Candy!.png]]Jesus 22:48, 14 December 2009

Vampirism when in a group?
Isnt't it possibly the worst offensive spirit ever? I get that the whole 'sunspear rank' attribute is appealing but still, it won't ever do more than 20 damage. Pain + Anguish + Bloodsong + SoS are a much better combination, which leaves you room for painful bond, summon spirits, spirit siphon, and Armor of unfeeling. Shouldn't it only see use in solo play/teams with two spirit spam rits? 90.208.113.3 21:42, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * It may only do 20 damage but is called Vamperism for a reason. You get that 20 damaged stolen as health for you.--Cancerman66 04:34, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Everything you just said except armor of unfeeling is already in the build. Instead of being wordy, just say next time "I think Armor of Unfeeling should go into the variants."--Ikimono  "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 06:51, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, gee, and here I was thinking you needed to give REASONS for your opinions. Hmmm, I think this build works better with Mending. Add to the variants, senor. Also, 20hp healing per hit is not much at all, seeing as you shouldn't be taking much damage anyway (And most ritualists won't have max sunspear rank). If you do end up in the crossfire, vamp will not save you. 90.209.131.188 19:51, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Armor of Unfeeling should go into the variants. --Xeeron 22:28, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

So
Any particular reason this has 2 sups? Life  Guardian  09:28, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * the spirits do the tanking and damage for you, you stand at a safe distance and resummon, rehex, and rebuff the spirits. 164.106.166.49 17:09, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

I use...
[build prof=Rt/? com=12+3 cha=11+1+3 spa=6+1][Signet of Spirits][Pain][Bloodsong][Shadowsong][Painful Bond][Great Dwarf Weapon][Summon Spirits (Kurzick)][Spirit Siphon][/build]

Shadowsong can be swapped for Disenchantment or Anguish depending on the situation. Note that shadowsong does 5...17...20 damage in addition to blinding even though it is not in the description.

Spirit siphon is just ridiculous energy management, and it's not as hard as you might think to make sure you don't use it on the same spirit twice in a row. Even if you only use it when you summon a fresh spirit it's still much better energy gain than anything else. It is very easy to spam great dwarf weapon with this, and it will last 26 seconds so you can maintain it on ~4 allies pretty easily.

Great dwarf weapon can be replaced with just about anything if you don't have allies to use it on, remember that you will have very good energy management so go wild.

You don't have to use two superiors, but I find it very easy to avoid aggro and you can pump health more on your gear since you don't need a big energy pool.

[build prof=Rt/? res=12+3 cha=11+1+3 spa=6+1][Signet of Spirits][Vampirism][Bloodsong][Painful Bond][Spiritleech Aura][Great Dwarf Weapon][Summon Spirits (Kurzick)][Spirit Siphon][/build]

Note that spiritleech aura will stack with the normal lifesteal damage caused by vampirism and bloodsong. So vampirism will effectively do 40 damage and bloodsong will do 45.

Same concept but avoids using communing so you can either work in some restoration skills for utility or just so you don't overlap with allies using communing. Your spirits are a tougher too because they will all self heal. Damage without painful bond is actually slightly higher, but damage with painful bond is slightly lower since you have 1 less spirit total. 141.224.237.173 03:16, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

[build prof=Ritualist/ ChannelingMagic=12+3 SpawningPower=12+1+3][Signet of Spirits][Vampirism][Bloodsong][Feast of Souls][Painful Bond][Great Dwarf Weapon][Summon Spirits (Kurzick)][Spirit Siphon][/build]
 * I prefer focusing on channeling and restoration, especially when solo farming.
 * 12+2 Restoration Magic, 12+1+2 Channeling Magic, 3+1 Spawning Power
 * --90.129.45.32 04:33, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

less spirit siphon
Moar Boon of Creation kthx - Renegade Shinobi 01:01, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spirit Siphon yields 10 Energy per use, and can be used to full effect every 23 seconds, for 0.43 Energy per second per Spirit or 3.04 Energy per second. Boon of Creation will require a less modest investment in Spawning Power, and even with 6 Energy per Spirit, that's 1.19 Energy per second if you resummon all of your Spirits on recharge, which you shouldn't. ــѕт.  мıкε  01:27, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, spirit siphon is energy on demand, boon of creation doesn't give you a net gain of energy except with summon spirits (or a whopping net gain of 1e on a 5e spirit if you have high enough SP) so if you're low on energy and need to cast a 15e spirit or GDW or whatever, boon won't help unless summon spirits is recharged and even then you'll have to use summon spirits when you might not want to. Boon is still good, but only when there is a reason not to have high channeling magic. 141.224.237.173 23:35, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

mesmer
this quote: "Mesmers should invest Fast Casting to 12 ranks and use Symbolic Celerity." is bullshit...Symbolic Celerity only effects signets...i just remove itIlloyon 21:32, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you notice that SoS is a signet? Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  22:44, 26 June 2010

yes but to get 12 fast you need to either put channeling or communing to 0...so you lose bloodsong or anguish+pain.Illoyon 23:18, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You sure 'bout that? 10+1+1 FC, 10 Communing, 11 Channeling. OH SHIT! Stop being dumb. Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">13:20, 27 June 2010

or just take 12 channeling and 12 communing...fastcasting does not effect the spirits since the update...so its useless here. Symbolic Celerity would be only useful with FC 13+, but if you spec 10+1+1 FC, 10 Communing, 11 Channeling...you lose 2 communing and 1 channeling for a lesser reward, right?Illoyon 14:40, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Depends. You could take Mantra to shorten the recharge as well. As far as I'm concerned, it's a valid note. You could always go 11+1+1 FC which would make it worthwhile and 10 is all you need for communing anyway (that's what the spirit farm builds typically use). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">16:13, 27 June 2010

for mesmers?
12+1+3 Fast Casting, 12 Communing

12+1+3 Fast Casting, 12 Channeling Magic for stronger SoS and some AoE.Illoyon 14:56, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ether sucks since the nerf. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:31, 28 June 2010
 * wait wut? its actually better now for a primary mes who specs FC now, it recharges faster now due to said FC spec. Tho admittedly without FC its worse...but they are rocking a 16fc attribute. <font color="ForestGreen">Jayson <font color="Black">MaxxFury 16:00, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meh, I guess that's true. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">16:26, 28 June 2010

Suggestion
11+1+3 chan, 12+3 com, 6+1 spawn


 * Optional 1: Shadowsong, Disenchantment, or Anguish.
 * Optional 2: A second of the optional 1 list, splinter weapon, PvE skill of choice (Necrosis, GDW, PI, Vampirism).

More situational skills like Earthbind (fighting giants) or Binding Chains (AoE team) stay in the variants list.

It just seems too restricting for a build like this to have one set skill bar that is supposedly the best and then leave everything else to just fall into variants. At the very least you'll almost always benefit by swapping out vampirism for something else.Necromas 16:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh and for the Luxon version, why not just post the template code instead of an entire copy of the build? Necromas 17:00, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Any reason for not including Vampirism? The point is your spamming spirits, so this is a pretty standard bar and gets the idea through. More experienced players will change it to meet their needs, all the PvE skill goodness and other options are more suitable for variants. There are times where you can drop painful bond or summon spirits, we can pretty much have a bar with SoS, Bloodsong, Pain, and Vampirism; that isn't as useful as loading up the mainbar with spirits so people can't get it wrong. If you were to put in optionals, you'd probably drop summon spirits and anguish; the other skills are the core part of the build.-- Relyk 04:46, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Why don't we drop the communing attribute, since it only are 2 spirits, and make it optional?

This way, the player has the 5 strongest spirits, which is enough imo, and can spec into communing or restoration if he/she wants. And we can list splinter, ancestor's and the PvE skills as optionals. <font color="Black">Vorpal  20:55, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Meta for General Use?
This should be moreso meta for farming use as use in general groups forgoes on the very powerfull and synergistic ancestors rage and splinterweap. Like someone noted above.....for group use this build is sub-par. --E.Snow 00:02, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This build is very limited for general use. Skakid9090 20:59, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's an excellent build for general PvE. Regardless, though, it is meta. AegisDok 21:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Everyone runs this! <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 21:58, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a general build for hero teams or playing with pugs. This isn't meant for organized groups. Such is usually covered in team builds.-- Relyk 22:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah, splinter/ancestors is just way better. And that changes the focus of the build. Speccing into channeling and not bringing splinter in PvE is ridiculous, especially because you're sacrificing it for uncontrollable single target damage. Spirits are better as just damage absorbers, SoS is more than enough. I dunno, just what I think Skakid9090 21:21, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly we used to have a "Weapon Support Rit" build here. It was basically a channeling rit with splinter, GDW and some optionals like seed of life. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 21:26, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * archived. Skakid, your argument makes no sense unless you expect the ritualist is using volley (and dshot).-- Relyk 23:37, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Generally a human rit doesn't spec more than 8+1 communing for aou and pain; use GDW if you want weapon. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 00:10, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You put it on teammates.............. Skakid9090 01:56, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You need a teammate to cast it on first...-- Relyk 11:36, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * When i think of general pve, I think of a team format and aegis says the farming one still exists so this isn't it. Roland 19:42, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Relyk's still retarded, I see. Skakid9090 19:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ups it's any/rt. I'm referring to using this in heroway if you shitters haven't figured that out yet. I really hope you're not asking to use melee heroes or a barrage ranger. In player teams, you first need a melee player to cast it on. Even then, you're relying on them to some balling already for abusing splinter weapon and AR. I already explained why the current bar should stay as is in a prior section. Besides all that, there are no players that bring sw and ar unless it's an organized team; people use spirit spam, just as the build reflects. Also skakid fuck off if you're just going to troll, I can't tell if you're being stupid on purpose or not.-- Relyk 21:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * there is no such thing as stupidity on purpose...  Geist tha burdill  Enormous 10:34, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * GDW>Splinter in pugs, for the reason you mentioned, Relyk. Melee professions are easy to find; derpish, pseudo ranger, wammo and dagsin are all good at abusing GDW, and maintaining just two on an autoattacking melee/physical character, is stronger than Anguish. Ancestor's Rage is meh pulse damage, though. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 22:30, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Idk, the ai likes to ball their own melee on one of your heroes so you can easily place a rage to hit 2-4 people depending on mob size as long as you're watching field and it is ~100dmg pbaoe. In HM tho i drop it. Roland 02:18, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * AR's text is still bugged to say it deals lightning damage, but I wanted to confirm you knew it was armour ignoring, as you say you drop it in HM, or is that for another reason? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 07:55, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I actually had forgotten it was armor ignoring, but in hm i drop it for either smite or resto or other utility based on area. I find utility more useful than that damage at times in harder areas. Roland 08:05, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You're wrong and bad. I'm not trolling you. I cannot be more honest than this. Skakid9090 05:12, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Or drop pain/anguish and bring arage/splinter and just bring a SoGM hero. Doesn't everyone run 2 rits anyway.. Roland 02:29, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to note, we had a farming version and a version for general use and the farming one was deleted/merged with this iirc.-- Relyk 02:33, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * After reviewing the page, Pain and Anguish's slots are probably best suited as Optional. Some people like to bring a res, some bring another utility skill. Also, y u no spawning? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 05:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The farming version still exists. AegisDok 07:47, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Hate to say but ska is right, low single target damage and about 3 seconds worth of tanking (which takes away said single target damage) is fairly useless. I'm left not really seeing the point, it hardly does anything - what is the reason to take it? Rawr 12:06, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Training +300 damage every 2 seconds is not reason enough? Currently that is quadrupled the effectiveness compared to back before Signet of Spirits functionality change, fast-activation/maximum health update, or even Summon Spirits were introduced. This build is designed to kill high-valued targets with ruthless efficiency. --108.38.126.227 01:24, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Eh
2 rits would do this more effectively, yes, but that would require you to use another hero for that purpose. Is losing an extra hero slot worth the minor increase in effectiveness you'd get by adding a com rit? Attributes can always be adjusted to your preference; it's not as if the Com/Spawning split's going to hurt the build. Admittedly, Vampirism should be made an optional slot for whatever, though that's already listed in variants. :/ AegisDok 20:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Make a PvE Channeling Rit build for player? <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  08:38, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

in
response to snow.


 * painful bond at 16 channeling, adds 21 damage. for the way anguish works, that is added to anguish damage, prior to the double hex damage. so..


 * 10+1: Communing damage= 21+16=37x's 2= 74.
 * 12+1: Communing damage= 21+18=39x's 2= 78.
 * and in the case of pain, the difference regardless of painful bond, is a difference of 4 damage.


 * 23 at 10+1.
 * 27 at 12+1.
 * So the con of Communing is and overall boost in damage per attack across both spirits, of 8 compared to my next point.
 * Soul reaping at 3+1 would add approximately 16% health to the spirit dependant on the level of the spirit. for this example, since i'm lazy. i'm only going to test pain and anguish, since they're the only ones affected at this split.


 * 3+1 spawn, results in a 12+1 communing, giving us a level 11 pain and level 10 anguish.
 * 8+1 spawn, results in a 10+1 communing, giving us a level 9 pain and level  8 anguish.
 * Sprit health, as based on a page graciously provided page, | Here, shows that:


 * 3+1 spawn will give us a(n) pain and anguish with a(n) health value of 255 and 232 respectively. as opposed to 220 and 200 base.
 * 8+1 spawn will give us a(n) pain and anguish with a(n) health value of 245 and 218 respectively. as opposed to 180 and 160 base.
 * Long story short, your sacrificing points in communing that give you a lower level communing spirit, with yes, a higher boost in health from spawning. however spawning increase of health is based off of spirit level, and not only do pain and anguish (arguably the most important spirit for dps) suffer in health, but their overall damage capacity of 8/attack. This does not apply to the health increase of spirits created from SoS and bloodsong. since they would only receive a different health amount. and screw mention vamp, since its title based. anyways.


 * SoS= lvl 13 spirits.
 * 3+1= they have 304 health as opposed to the base of 260.
 * 8+1= they have 354 health as opposed to the base of 260.
 * blood= same thing.
 * second story short, pain and anguish are weaker regardless of your investment. but the smart player would like all their spirits to be strong. 4 at 350 health, and 2 at their values of 245 and 218, may seem fine. but you sacrificed 10-12 health on your already weaker spirits to get them +50's. i'll close with a simple statement. yea, you only lose 8 damage per attack from the communing ones, and yea they take a small piss reduction in health, i didn't even bother with armor, which happens to be 12al for both. you


 * gain 50 health on four spirits, lose 8 damage, lose 12 al on two spirits, and lose ~11 health on two spirits.
 * lose 50 health on four spirits, gain 8 damage, gain 12 al on 2 spirits, and gain ~11 health on two spirits.
 * all spirits recharge in 30 seconds, and with setup and normal use, is the duration of my intercourse for people on this site, short. however anguish recharges in 45, and has the benefit of hitting the hardest in your spirit lineup. however to give your channeling spirits 50 health, he must lose 12 health, 12 al, and also his level reduction results in higher critical hits. IE:youre fucking anguish, who's your most important spirit for dps. yea, they do the single target shit. who cares. hes "basically" 2 spirits worth of damage alone, with a hex. coincidentally painful bond is a god send. for a build like this, you dont want to do anything to make your spirits level lower, because criticals, armor level, and health are a bitch. 4 strong lvl 13 spirits dont get their bonus health. woo, no biggy, they retain their armor, still good health comparitively, and damage. pain and anguish stay up longer from 2 level gain, 12 armor, and 11 health. the point of the build is to deal lots of damage and kill fast. it can't do that with lower level spirits than what the build give at 12, 12, 3. you noticed that spawn affects health plus whatever other "attribute" reference you made to the build and its abilities, good job. but you only looked on surface value. all its bonuses are still based on the corresponding point allocation in the spirits attribute tree. its based on level, which in changing shit also affects armor and vulnerability to enemies based on this level, something "basically/somewhat" noticeable in hm. you dont want a lvl 8 anguish in hm, nor a lvl 9 pain. they will be hit to hard, plus they still manage to lose health with the boost up to 8 from spawning. overall, you want the split listed, not what was suggested, however its your choice, just what i've explained is why its not listed as an optional. w/e. i'm going to bed. hope this is useful to someone.. someday.. somewhere over the rainbow... way up high... zzz  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   Akio_Katsuragi_Sig2.jpg 11:46, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you sure spirits critical? I thought the damage was set as the skill mentions (+Painful Bond, of course). Other than that, nice calcs. Hopefully settled a dispute with a watertight case. gj Soi Sticker 11:55, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Criticals were in reference to enemy attacks on the spirits. The lower their level, or the bigger the gap between their level and the enemy, the more damage they would take, and more often criticals would happen. That and the armor reduction from a lower level regardless, would screw them at losing 2 levels.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   Akio_Katsuragi_Sig2.jpg 12:07, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

While I see where you are going....some of your numbers are off. The health difference for sos + bloodsong is 74 per spirit and the dif to vampirism can be up to 78 (going by the chart which im pretty sure is flawed). Yes one would be losing some vitality on 2 spirits, but you're gaining vitality on 5 for 8dmg. My main point is that pain and anquish are not the most vital skills of the build and as such one should not build around them. Imo the channeling/communing split is a horrid idea in the 1st place, but thats another issue.--E.Snow 15:14, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * the chart clearly says it uses estimated values. that doesn't interfere with my reasoning. idc what the spread is, i just stated why, especially for hm, you dont want your spirits being fucked over level and armor reduction.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   Akio_Katsuragi_Sig2.jpg 21:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I noticed you ignored the lower edit....the health of 5 spirits is more important than the health/armor of 2 that u can place behind the 5 tanking ones. Remember this build is meant for solo play and is vetted as such, so the spirits will be tanking. Just use common sense to which to use as the frontliners.--E.Snow 22:02, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * no, sigh..just cba to drone things on, its not in my personality. I don't debate with people. I say my peace, provide evidence, and move on to something else. i acknowledge your interest in beast channel spirits and gimped communing ones. idk if thats what you're wanting from me or what. just i hate when people try to drag things on. whether it be needing the final say, or what. its just annoying. not saying that's what your doing, just its why i tend to just /shrug/ things. makes things in life smoother. besides, i play what builds i want, at what attr's i want, regardless of if the site tells me that Archive:A/W Unsuspecting Wastrel is outdated, i use it quite exclusively. if they're vetted great, cool. if not, i can still make a woman reach climax... i'm good with life, i'll survive.  Akio _Ka  t  suragi   Akio_Katsuragi_Sig2.jpg 06:20, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * damage all the way. this is mean to be a very effective single-target cleanup/finisher during and after your team's AoE (c.f. Ska's vote). EoE adds much more AoE to your team too, and should arguably be mainbar material. if you're going at any decent pace through the map, you shouldn't let 30r spirits tank and die in a few seconds. tank is for your baller. plus, if mobs group around a big clump of spirits, chances are they won't be in adjacent range of each other. only in a few situations are spirits meant to tank, and those are usually SCs. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 18:02, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * In a team settup this build is vastly inferior to a pure channel rit with splinter/arage in place of the communing spirits. If you want dmg in a team run those. If running solo (which is the only reason this build should be run) the spirits will have to tank. Laying spirits in a manner in which the more stout ones take the majority of dmg is common sense.--E.Snow 18:15, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * it's true that splinter can hit a million times harder than a spirit. if you're going solo, i assume you're farming, but you know spirit farming works pretty well without Spawning Power. if you're in a 4/6-size team, spirit spamming is even more effective, and AoE stuff is less (smaller mob size, etc.). &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 01:57, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I never understood this really.
Why must a human player take some spirits from both channeling and communing when, well, every meta team build has got either one in it. Go either full Channel or full Communing in my opinion --  Shadow  Talk with me :D  22:25, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * i don't think this is meant for the meta 7h teams...for pugs, anything's fair game in randomway. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 01:57, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * it's not like you do anything with the extra spec. might as well take both. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 02:49, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Overhaul suggestion
I prepared an overhaul of this page over here (edit: released). The changes aren't uncontroversial, so if anyone has qualms about replacing the current page content like that, please note it here. --Krschkr (talk) 12:29, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * And now it's in great, thanks for the rewrite. I can see why you were hesitant to remove Skakid's vote since it technically applies to the current mainbar, but his vote was almost certainly targeted at the 'literally no AoE available even in variants' version of the page that existed when he voted. With two flex slots and Splinter prominently listed I think he'd have voted at least a little differently. -Toraen (talk) 11:47, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. AegisDok's vote also clearly refers to the old build version. However, I didn't really see a point in removing it, as he voted 5/5 despite the now taken care of issue. If he was still active now he couldn't give it any better rating than back then to take account of the changes. --Krschkr (talk) 16:07, 3 December 2018 (UTC)