User talk:Guild of Deals/Don't Vote McCain

/agree. Ace (LVPoW) 10:16, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

You typo'd :O  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  10:32, 19 August 2008 (EDT)


 * I don tyypo alot. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]] * Wah Wah  Wah! * 10:34, 19 August 2008 (EDT)


 * disagree with some - to be fair, you ought to list the problems with Obama € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   14:52, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * He's a chirasmatic black guy who can play basketball well and agrees with my liberal views. Sure, I'm a left-leaning Liberpublican, but I would gladly sacrifice Republican economics over Democratic social views anydays. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]] * Wah Wah  Wah! * 14:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * I'm not talking about his views, although I really can't find anywhere where he outlines them, but more along the lines of his faults. For example, lying about talking to the canadians, then when it comes out that he did, he said what he told them didn't apply to the elections (If I remember right, he told them something like he doesn't think NAFTA is bad and will not change it although he had been condemning it because it was created during his opponent's, Clinton's, husbands capmaign).  Or the videos on youtube which have only a shred of truth (i.e. they talk about him being muslim - which I don't think is true - and then actually touch on something pertinent) contrasting speaches where he flip flops on what he says based on who he's talking to.  I'm not an expert on Obama, so don't have all these memorized, but I've read quite a few in the news.  If you're going to demonize one candidate for perceived flaws, it's kind of hypocritical if you don't hold the other to the same standards.   € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   15:13, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Obama has actually been pretty consistent in his speeches, which is something for a politician. The only thing he's really flip-flopped on is the FISA amendment (which still makes me rage). --71.229 15:15, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC)The videos that I've watched haven't been consistent at all. Maybe the large majority he is. Also, even though they are dubbed over with what I believe are untrue 'facts', the speeches are in his voice and don't see how they could've been tampered with to change what he said. € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   15:20, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Sound bytes are notorious for saying exactly what the editor wants them to. I'm not saying he's perfectly consistent, but he's a hell of a lot better than most politicians.  And really, consistency in stump speeches is a pretty crappy measure of a politician's worth.  You have to lie to win, because people are fucking stupid. --71.229 15:27, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I disagree that you have to lie to win - maybe I'm being unrealistic, but it seems to me that as soon as you lie, you become just a politician. As far as votes, you really can't look at those anymore to see if a candidate flip flops because of all the fluff that is put into them.  You may be all for supporting the troops, but there is an added adendum for having to withdraw from Iraq (i.e. the user page for this discussion).  Also, to me, as soon as either candidate lies, I won't vote for either of them.  If you can't be a decent human being, you aren't getting my vote. Forgot to mention the soundbytes...they had the subject identified and enough to see that he was saying two completely different things.  I wish I had bookmarked them - I'll see if I can find when I get home   € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   15:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Here's a good site for finding out that kind of stuff. And there's a site where they do the same thing for votes, but I can't remember it atm. --71.229 15:41, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * A site like that makes me nervous when they also have Abba references. Also, to the comment that increased spending, not tax increases, are the major cause of the deficit, they list as mostly true with the explanation saying, "true, but tax cuts were a major factor too".  They seem to totally miss the idea behind tax cuts as to my understanding.  First, tax cuts cause more people to spend money they normally wouldn't which causes jobs to increase.  This increase in jobs causes more revenue to the government.  Second, it increases the economy which is all-around good for the government since again, businesses make more which in turn means the government makes more.  So, I and many who are experts, disagree with their judgement on that particular issue.  However, with that being said, I'm not sure if what little I saw is a good representation of the site.  Thanks for passing it along, I'll spend some time there when I am able.  As for the other site, are you referring to snopes.com?   € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   15:57, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The ABBA thing is a current event, which is why it's there. And that may be true when there is a confident market, but right now tax cuts = bigger bank accounts for people.  Which is really the best possible thing right now, the government needs to be starved down a good bit.  And nope, something more politics-inclined. --71.229 16:05, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * To be fair, I didn't click on the 'show details' button for the abba thing so I don't know what was being said (although I can't imagine it being important)...but seriously though, that's on the top 5 (or whatever) list? Again, this may not be an accurate picture of the site, just made me a bit leary.  Bigger bank accounts - true for the rich.  Their spending plans don't change much, but not for the average joe.  The article that I was reading (I think it was on the site that you listed) said that jobs have actually increased more than likely as a result of the tax cuts (more-than-likely since you can't ever be for sure although they one usually follows the other which lends weight to the argument).   € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   16:31, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Even if that's true, don't expect any for the next thirty years or so. Too much debt (thank you, baby boomers). --71.229 17:20, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that, we're either going to screw the economy or have a bunch of baby-boomers who were counting heavily on the subsidized income dying from lack of money. But, that's what you get in a welfare society - people count on it and feel entitled so when it's not there, more people get screwed because they didn't prepare as they should have.  € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   19:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The US is hardly a welfare society (see the UK for a real one), and the impending SS collapse is as much the fault of Congress for spending all the interest SS made on porkbarrel shit. I was talking more about that deficit spending voodoo. --71.229 00:58, 22 August 2008 (EDT)


 * This page reads more like an endorsement for McCain than an anti-McCain page, IMO. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:22, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Addendum: Vote McCain, bitches. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:28, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry, not interested in another four years of Bush. We need a president that'll end these wars, raise taxes, murder spending, and investigate every single fucking thing Bush & co ever did in the White House, but since nobody like that is running I'll settle for one out of four. --71.229 01:31, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Half of what you're referring to is Conservative politics, which is actually effective governing. Just because he takes more right-leaning stances doesn't mean that is calling for another four years of Bush. What we have here in Canada is actually a lot of the same right-wing politics as Bush. There's actually differences between various key issues between McCain and Bush that are present. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:34, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Unfortunately, we haven't even seen a real Conservative in the US since the mid-eighties, and McCain's voting record disagrees. --71.229 01:36, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Disagrees with which point? The "McCain =/= Bush" part or the "McCain holds Conservative stances" part? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:40, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The McCain =/= Bush bit. Voted with him something like 94% of the time until he started campaigning, IIRC. --71.229 01:43, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * What about the part where McCain is wearing diapers in a nursing home, and not having the foggiest idea of who he really is (President of the United States) part? --Readem 01:45, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Nobody has to say anything about that, it'll come out in the first debate. It'll be Kennedy vs. Nixon all over again. --71.229 01:49, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * To tell you the truth, I would much prefer and all out death-brawl, in which both candidates randomly slaughter one another with house-hold items. This would not only be extremely entertaining, but would ensure that our president is strong. And that's what America needs. A strong president. --Readem 01:52, 22 August 2008 (EDT)


 * And what positions on the issues addressed by the votes do you find offensive? Because as far as I'm aware, "votes like bush" isn't a reason to discredit a presidential candidate (as frail as the original standalone "we don't want Bush" argument already is). And in fact, 95% is not a huge percentage. Disagreeing with your president every one in 20 votes is actually quite often, as far as I see. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:53, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * And then we get guys like this for president, which would be pretty awesome.
 * @Rapta: Voting against the new GI Bill in particular (and then abusing Fox News to convince morons that not only did he not actively campaign and then vote against it, but that he actually authored it and it was those damn dirty Libs that voted it down). And only disagreeing with the President on one out of twenty votes is pretty significant when the President is a lumbering cunt-bucket. --71.229 01:58, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I do remember the discussion over his voting down of the GI bill. In fact, he favored an alternate version of the GI bill that favored greater educational rewards for people serving in the military for longer periods of time; easily the more conservative stance on veterans affairs. The commotion was dragged out of proportion by Democrats (shooting down McCain's proposal, having their proposal voted forward and then starting complaints over McCain not voting for their proposal), mostly the cause for this "false" outrage. And as far as I'm concerned with President Bush, most of his criticisms come from some failed "fiscal conservative" policies and his handling of the Iraq war. A lot of the complaining over George W. Bush comes from bandwagoning from/by the media and others' that fall prey to that poor perception of George W. Bush. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:08, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh, and Liberals. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:10, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * well, he was an idiot. that didn't help his image much :/. --Readem 02:11, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, the "maverick" image is also part of his campaign message. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:12, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * No, most of the criticism for Bush comes from lying his way into a war that has gotten a few hundred thousand people killed (yes, civilian casualties count), carefully not-breaking laws in ways that still savagely sodomized the Constitution (DoJ firings, signing statements, going to war without Congress' approval, manufacturing false evidence to lead the country into a war, torturing prisoners of war, his Attourney General shenanigans), using backdoor methods to rewrite existing laws to suit his morals (Endangered Species Act forbidding the Dept of Wildlife from even mentioning global warming because it's "unproven science" while hand-picking groups of scientists to support that (who still disagreed with him), trying to rewrite abortion laws to ban basically everything but condoms), running the US' image abroad into the ground, alienating allies while manufacturing enemies, letting the military industrial complex run roughshod over the budget and the country's laws, running up the largest deficit ever recorded in national history (IIRC), using no-bid contracts to put money into the pockets of selected corporations that his buddies have their fingers in, denying NASA funding while simultaneously setting retarded goals (lol moonbase), fucking the educational system even harder than it already had been (No Child Left Behind), and a bunch of other crap I can't remember because I'm suddenly too fucking angry to think. --71.229 02:22, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * First of all, the entire "No Child Left Behind" act was a bipartisan effort to raise accountability and standards in American schools; in fact, the idea was quite flawless if it were not for lack of fundamental failures in America's educational infrastructure (including, but not limited to, insufficient numbers of qualified teachers, teachers unions complaining, resulting in settlements between school boards and teachers on various issues that ended up undermining the act itself).
 * The other points you've brought up are all tied to the broad issues of the Iraq War and Fiscal policy. The "manufacturing of false evidence" you're speaking of is, again, should not be blamed upon the president, but rather the CIA's handling of the issue. That also crosses over into the entire torture debate; something that's quite controversial and simply saying "torturing is bad" is not enough of an argument (many people fall prey to that point, in fact).
 * Where am I going with all this? The two key points that I mentioned before - the handling of the Iraq War and various aspects of fiscal policy - are two major points that McCain and Bush disagree on. That goes back to my initial point of the entire "McCain = Bush" having little practical meaning; merely people falling prey to various non sequiturs being played out by Democrats along with the liberal media. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:43, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * A bipartisan effort spearheaded by Bush that failed because it made schools focus on making sure that nobody was dumb instead of working to help kids become smart. And no, the other points are all under the whole sodomizing-the-Constitution thing.  The Iraq War is a part of that, not the other way around.  Bush pushed for the false evidence, I can find sources if you want (or just google "bush iraq false evidence" or something and look for a credible source).  Torturing is bad, it is forbidden by the Constitution, and Japanese officers were executed during and after WWII for waterboarding American soldiers because it was defined as torture (and in fact still was until Ashcroft went at it).  McCain's economic policies are retarded and disastrous.  Also, LOL LIBERAL MEDIA .  I'm going to bed, I can't take anything you say seriously after that horseshit. --71.229 02:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I'll take the lack of a response that makes sense an "I agree with you, Rapta". Good night. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:00, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * And, not that I'm agreeing that Bush actually did spearhead the bipartisan effort, but oh, how wrong it is to try and make the educational system more accountable with goals that would lift standards. But that's just me. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow...I've missed a lot. 71, I shouldn't have suggested that we are a complete welfare state, but have many aspects of one.  It also seems like as each election year goes by, we edge closer and closer with more and more programs going into place.   € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   14:54, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * According to McCain, the economy is fine. FYI, he also now supports the draft. If the draft does come back, you'll be seeing a new Canadian IP address for me. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]] * Wah Wah  Wah! * 14:57, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Which "according to McCain" passage are you looking at now? Or are you reading that much into political TV ads? Either way, you're looking at quite a few poor sources, or you're looking at issues being overplayed. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 15:01, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * He said in a rally in New Mexico that he agreed to a woman's point of the draft (which was to bring it back). And yes, I watch Countdown, which yes, is a liberal heavy pundit program. But he's absolutely correct. Better than Billo the Clown hour on Fox or Rushdouche Limbag. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]] * Wah Wah  Wah! * 15:03, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, good job in being honest about the program you watch. Though I'd prefer not to have to get into a discussion on macroeconomics, I'll give you what that discussion would end up saying: McCain is partially right. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 15:07, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

(reset)Well I've had both macro and micro multiple levels in college, so I should understand it ok, but it definitely won't be the highpoint of my day ;-)   € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   17:39, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Piplup for prez, mudkip for vice prez.
Discuss. Misfate 15:18, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * and misf8 for chancellor of the exchequer --Tab  Moo  15:20, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

wow
You guys get a war vet and a basketball playing black guy, we get a fat scotsmen and a stuck up his own ass conservative. -- Frosty  17:31, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * McCain is boring though. Nothing like seeing some 72 year old white guy drag on and on about conversatism. And Obama is "down with the youngsters". --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]] * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 17:33, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * We have an old boring fat SCOTSMAN running our country, and his biggest rival is a pompass stuck up his own ass privately educated wanker who said that we should "Hug-a-hoody". Stop complaining or live here. -- Frosty  17:35, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * frosty for pm --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * ^ -- Frosty  17:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * No, we have an ivory-tower West Coast elitist who's too inexperienced to win and so experienced that he's manipulated about half of the population of the US into supporting him vs. PANCAKES!!! --71.229 17:39, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * 71.229 for first lady --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:40, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Is Frosty sexy? And do I get to wear a pretty skirt? --71.229 17:40, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * frosty is pm, pms wife isnt first lady. you get to be oapwarvet's wife or Black Barack Obama's wife. skirt is pretty, has flowers and piplups on it --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:42, 21 August 2008 (EDT) wow my typings getting even lazier :<
 * We could always have an affair. -- Frosty  17:43, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * thats feasible --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:44, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * And then my ugly mcwife could have it out with your bla...arack. -- Frosty  17:45, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * his reelection motto is gonna be back in barack wait and see --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:47, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * --71.229 17:51, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * look how deformed the area round his left nipple is --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:52, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Marijuana's a hell of a drug. --71.229 17:53, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 * ^ thats a pretty good pic though --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  17:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

At least someone else can see through McCain's Bullshit
Seriously this guy is Bush III. He was against the tax cuts before he was for them, claimed the war in Iraq would be easy and later claimed he knew all along it would be difficult, assured everyone the streets in Iraq "were safe" and that he "walked down [them] with no body armor on" while in reality he WAS wearing body armor the whole time and he was guarded by over 100 soldiers, black hawk helicopters, and apache gunships, claimed he was "prepared" and needed "no on the job training" when Joe Lieberman and others repeatedly have to correct him about the statement that Iran is training al-Qaeda (Iran is mostly shia and al-Qaeda is Sunni... you'd think the expert would recognize that's a big problem), said in a debate he "needed to be educated" on the economy, then tried to feign ignorance of ever saying it when Russert pushed it, and so on, and so on.

I have to say that the fact that this flip-flopper is even polling near Obama is a testament both to American racism and American stupidity. The substantial majority of Americans think America is heading in the wrong direction, yet half of them think that Bush needs to be re-elected. Absolutely ridiculous. Snakes on a Wii 19:06, 21 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Unfortunately, half of what you said is either untrue or pretty irrelevant. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:25, 22 August 2008 (EDT)


 * both candidates are pretty shitty in my opinion. We either get a guy who will most assuredly get Alzheimer's in the next year or so (and waves his veteran status around as if it is his third appendage), or "a blackie". Apart from Obama's nationality (as I am not racist whatsoever), he just can't seem to make up his mind (about anything for that matter; this includes both religion and politics). owell, at least obama represents a progressive step forward for the United States, even if he turns out to be a terrible president. At least he can't fuck things up any worse... --<font color="Black">Readem 01:38, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Tbh if you get someone worse than Bush, I will pray for you. -- Frosty  01:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Bush had a lot of good visions though. But hey, communism had a lot of good visions aswell. Brandnew.  03:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Bush ruined it when he said that Human and Fish could co-exist peacefully, BLASPHEMY (Oh yea and did you see that drive?) zzz -- Frosty  03:03, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You guys get entertaining politics that invoke worthwhile discussions (often with hilarious outcomes, like above). Be thankful. Canadian politics is zzzzz... &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:08, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Dutch politics fucking wins, we have a president that looks like harry potter :> Brandnew.  03:09, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * We have politicians with fake passports, who flee to America when their true identity is revealed.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 15:08, 22 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Honestly though, I do think a lot of Bush's criticism is blown out of proportion. I don't like how liberal his policies have been (I think two vetoes so far in 8 years) but the housing crisis, 9/11, and the deficit (a result of war campaigns) aren't a result of his blundering.  Any urban fighting is going to be expensive both monetarily and in lives - especially when you're fighting radicals who don't mind killing themselves in order to get half a dozen others.  The CIA and FBI not communicating properly was the result of (I think...I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) policies Clinton enacted.  To clarify, I don't think he was trying to harm the agencies, but rather increase their security measures.  The housing crisis was created, according to the latest theory I've read, by a company (think it was Morgan Stanely?), which was supposed to keep this from happening, buying up all property liens.  That caused other mortgage companies to go after the subprime market with the high interest loans to try to run a profit - so basically greed.   € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   15:14, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * That's exactly right. Bush's criticism has been blown out of proportion, and the "deteriorating image of the US on the world stage" points that get thrown around are merely things that the left-wing media masses push forward. Though you're not entirely correct on the entire "mortgage meltdown" that the US has been facing. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 15:21, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Eh, it was something that I either read or heard on NPR (yeah, I know a bit liberal lol), what do you believe caused it? € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   15:45, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It's actually very complex. One can even say that the Chinese are to blame. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:29, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * All I know is that Bush's PR team must suffer a continuoes nervous breakdown. -- Frosty  17:31, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It's not his PR team, it's the amount of media out there covering things as they are. People don't listen to the PR since it is more entertaining to watch the 'news'.  @Rapta: Are you talking about the foreign governments/companies buying our debts up?  So now we owe foreigners debts instead of to ourselves? (which if you ask me - and you didn't - is a monumentally stupid thing to do --sell our debt that is--)  € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   17:37, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Tell me about it, all that Debt the British banks brought practically made the interbanking trade non-existant. And when I ment his PR team I ment the people who make sure he says the right things (which he still manages to say wrong). I don't believe Bush is an idiot, but he comes over as one pretty impressively. -- Frosty  17:40, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Think of recent news (we hear about it all the time in Canada, so those of you in the US must get a healthy dose) about outsourcing.
 * What the entire deal over subprime mortgages - failed mortgage loans as a result of extremely high interest rates and people being unable to pay it back - can (though not directly) be linked to China. Simply put, jobs are continuously being outsourced overseas to Chinese manufacturers because, for companies, it is cheaper to import from foreign manufacturers than it is to purchase these goods from domestic manufacturers (in a nutshell: things being "Made from China"). This causes, as you may have guessed, people in the US working in the manufacturing industry to lose their jobs.
 * That, plus other factors, end up influencing the mortgage market. What's been done in the US since 2003 or so, was that mortgage companies boomed by giving out these "subprime" mortgage loans. These loans encompassed extremely high interest rates, along with being extremely long term loans - they are also "adjustable rate" mortgages. These properties are given to these loans because these loans are given out to people with low credit ratings and below-average incomes - people who would have normally been unable to own their own homes are suddenly being offered these loans.
 * As the years went by, these mortgages companies rolled in tremendous profits simply by giving out these loans. However, as outsourcing (and other various factors) took a toll on American jobs, those people began losing their jobs. Of course, that means that suddenly, they are unable to make their minimum monthly payments (which they were already barely making). So, as months go by and people are unable to find new jobs and make the payments, their homes get reposessed and resold. However, the huge amounts of money they ended up owing banks was even more than what the house was worth! What eventually happens is that the houses are auctioned off, usually for much less than what was owed to the bank, and the company takes out a loss on the mortgage. Now multiplying that over a million homes, and you can see how so many mortgage companies crumbled.
 * However, it doesn't end there. Remember that "statement" that George W. Bush made, the one when he told reporters to turn their cameras off, then announcing that "Wall Street got drunk"? That is the absolute truth. Wall St., during this "mortgage bubble" that's been growing since the beginning of this decade, has invested literally shitloads of money into these mortgage companies along with mortgage backed securities. When the mortgage companies began collapsing, as did these amounts of financial insitutions that were affiliated with these mortgage companies, as well as any other business that had money invested in the mortgage market. In some cases, I saw some CNN documentary, that reported of some school board had lost money because they invested money into it.
 * So all of this commotion you've been hearing about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is a direct result of this crisis. However, this is where my point stands - the blame lies, literally, with everyone. This includes the people who gave out these loans, the loan recipient that happened to want a house so bad they took out a huge risk (mostly minorities, Blacks and Latinos were impacted greatly) without giving a second of thought as to WTF they were getting themselves into, and Wall St. investors that either a) carelessly invested without seeing this bubble beginning to burst or b) saw the bubble, and took the risk with no proper exit strategy. President Bush is certainly not as at fault as most people make it seem. It becomes more hilarious when Democrats think that they can control the direction of the economy without becoming, well, Communist. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:49, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh, and in before "osht, huge wall of text". &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry been gone for a while -- I agree completely. There was actually a lady in the House I believe who tried to get a regulating committee for banks.  She said that this level of profit can not continue without it blowing up.  She was laughed out with people saying, "It's always worked.  If you regulate them, people will get scared and pull out", unfortunately she was right.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Obama leans towards deregulation?  € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   18:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

tl;dr
WTB Don't Vote Obama page. If you're not sure what I mean, check his voting record. Further discussions can be redirected to my AIM, MSN, or here. <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2"> ツ cedave  (contributions☆buildpage)  16:48, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * The only reason I wouldn't vote Obama is because he's not a Communist. But he's better than McCain. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   16:49, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Choose not to decide, imo. If you think both candidates suck, but one sucks less than the other, there's something wrong, anyway. Canadian politics are so much simpler, though, and you don't actually need that much money to become a prime minister (which is the equivalent of a president, of course). ــмıкε  нaшк  16:54, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, I'm too young to vote. Second, I don't think Obama sucks. Granted, I was Clinton supporter in the primaries, but I realized that you shouldn't be so selfish and pissy over which candidate won the primaries. In the end, Hilary and Barack have very close views. Why people are getting pissy and stuff over "Clinton didn't win so I'm gonna vote McCain even though I disagree with him on everything QQ" is beyond me. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   17:00, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

i voted for GoD's mom  —Ska Kid  16:50, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I wouldn't. She's a tree hugging PETA activist who talks to and for our cats. She's a nutterbutter. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   16:51, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * She is also black. Brandnew.  16:52, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * WTF why do people think I'm black? I'm white as all day and I'm as pale as a ghost. I would send pictures but I don't like people getting their trail mix freaky with my face. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   16:53, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * New Jersey. Brandnew.  16:58, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm not from Trenton or Camden though. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   17:00, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I was part of the Anybody But Her thing. Besides that, vote Barr or Nader. I'm all for the slogan "They really can't do any worse!" [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] <font color="#AA226D" face="times new roman" size="2"> ツ cedave  (contributions☆buildpage)  17:21, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Who cares about Barr and Nader is an asshole. Nader is too stubborn to realize he'll NEVER become president, drop out, and support the Democrat. He siphoned votes from Gore and made him lose the 2000 election. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   17:22, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * And Gore is all pro-environment, so things would probably have run much more smoothly in the world with him leading the US. ــмıкε  нaшк  17:33, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I still laughed when S Palin called herself a Pitbull with Lipstick, any British person who watched Mock the Week yesturday will know why ups I guess that's only me :<

How about
who the fuck cares? The president doesn't do jack shit anyway, the congress is the group that has the real power. The president just does what congress tells him to, or tries NOT to do what congress tells him to do. So STFU and quit whining about which pawn will be the senate's bitchboy.--<font color=#C68E17>Golden <font color=#C68E17>Star 18:07, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Now British politics, that's where it's at. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 18:09, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Doesn't british politics consist of sipping tea and and discussing last week's cricket match? O.o--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 18:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I think the past four years of the Bush administration beg to differ. Bush still anal fucked the country even with a Democratic's in control of the House and Senate. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   18:11, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Errr, the democratic congress could have stopped Bush at any time. The president can't do anything without congress's aproval. I hate how people bitch about how awful Bush is when their fucking precious democratic congress approved everything he did--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 18:13, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * British politics consists of everybody lining up and laughing at gordon brown so we all forget that the country is in an economic crisis. -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 18:14, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Sounds pretty lulzy--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 18:15, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Lehman Bros sounds more like LAMEman Bros. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   18:16, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Weird thing is whenever someone takes a stab at gordon, they seem to get hit with a scandal (last week some minister said he was a load of BS then got caught having an affair >.>) -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 18:17, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Putin tranquilizing a tiger is moar interesting tbh--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 18:18, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If only the world were russian -- Frosty [[Image:Mini england.jpg|19px]] 18:19, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * russian's do the most awesome shit ever, it's a good thing sarah palin has foreign policy experience with them--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 18:20, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

Palin
I disagree with your theory as to why McCain actually chose her. While this seems like the logical reason, I was thinking about it last night and came to this conclusion: he picked her because she is inexperienced. Yeah, that's right. Because she's inexperienced.

While it may seem like awful reasoning at first, think about it: if she's inexperienced, then the Democrats will jump all over her AND the whole Republican Party about accusing Obama as an inexperienced candidate, which brings light to the whole "experience" topic (even though it really is a bunch of bullsemen). This way, even though Palin gets crushed by Biden on the experience issue, McCain will beat out Obama with it.

So, you see, McCain actually planned for the Democrats to jump on this inexperience issue so that he will come out on top of it. And so far, it seems like the Democrats are playing right into the trap. <font color="Brown">Punjab 18:52, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Still, the McCain campaign's main point was "Obama is inexperienced, McCain is experienced". Obama's campaign is smart enough to not go to the experience issue, because quite frankly, his is a newbie. Still, they didn't go to the issue, and now he's stuck with an inexperienced VP whose already having tons of scandals (Bridge to Nowhere flip-flop, Troopergate, pregnant 17-y/o daughter) coming to light. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   18:58, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
 * i know its late and Fuckrack Obama already won, but i was reading through this and wanted to comment. Since when is POLITICAL EXPERIANCE NOT A KEY ATTRIBUTE TO BE PRESIDENT, ill say it again, PRESIDENT of the United States.  I dont care about policies or what not.  Saying experience is not important to be the PRESIDENT is like saying breathing is not necessary to live. And Guild of Fucks, dont say 'o the pres dont do anything anyway' cuz a couple convos up you got shit pawned by some guy about that.  EEEXPPPEERIANCEEEE.  O and when the economy bounces back, its not because of Obama, its cuz ECONOMIES DO THAT.  It was going to coming back up anyway, and what ever cocksucer is in office when that happens is going to get all the credit for sucking extra cock. 70.22.249.173 20:42, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * ^ Epic post. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:46, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Wow...you kiss your country-ass, republican mother with that mouth? Lol, jk, but seriously his cabinet picks and CIA pick should be enough to appease any republicans by now. He's obviously not going to Democrat-roll everyone and apparently wants balanced opinions when he's in office. He's already looking more presidential than Bush, tbh. [[Image:KJ sig 2.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">20:49, 10 January 2009 
 * It's called a cabinet, vice president, and a group of people to surround you. And Obama has displayed 10x more political prowless than Palin. And say that economies bounce back during the Great Depression. The economy wouldn't have bounced back with 25% unemployment and massive poverty if it wasn't for the New Deal by FDR. That's what saved our ass, not the economy being the economy. --69.244.98.244 21:07, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Technically, WWII had a lot to do with our "bounceback" from the Great Depression, but I agree with your first point. Oh, and to the first IP, economies don't just bounce around all the time. They bounce around in a capitalist, free market because....well, that's what we let it do. More socialist societies actually have more stable economies, they just don't accrue as much wealth as the US has in the past. I think we've been smart enough in the past to say that when our economy struggles, we should regulate it to protect it and when our economy is doing well, we should let it do well in a more free market. It's pretty basic. So don't be dumb. [[Image:KJ sig 2.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">10:10, 11 January 2009 
 * I'd rather have a steady, constant economy than a up to down economy which goes from prosperous wealth to massive unemployment. This saves us all from that panic attack when you get let go because they have to cut 4,000 jobs and such. Socialism is really awesome. -- 10:14, 11 January 2009 (EST)
 * I concur lol. But I'm sure that I wont live to see that in the US. It may happen someday, but it's going to take a lot of understanding and it's going to take a generation dying off. [[Image:KJ sig 2.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">10:33, 11 January 2009 
 * Because "socialism" was used as an insult in the campaign, when if people actually knew how the current crisis happened, they would know that passing regulation and government and economy going hand in hand would save the most jobs, money, and time. -- 10:36, 11 January 2009 (EST)
 * And the only reason the GOP used socialism as a buzz word was because they knew that dumbass, hard-core republican people would equate it with the communist parties of russia and china. They wouldn't ever dare admit that we are a quasi-socialist republic and have been for well over 100 years. [[Image:KJ sig 2.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">11:46, 12 January 2009 

ups. <font color="#0099FF">CABOSE (LVPoW) "Hey chicka bum bum!" 19:16, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

You are retarded
McCain is a MUCH better choice than Obama. Obama is a democrat, which means he is a pussy. America is a capitalist country, and pussy things like pissing tax dollars into Obama's spending plans is THE WORST FUCKING IDEA OF ALL TIME. We need money in the country. McCains plan for cutting taxes on business is a good idea, as it will promote business in the country. Companies dont want to do business in the US b/c they can do it cheaper else where. THAT is Capitalism. Sorry, but if you dont like it then get out of America. The government is supposed to be run like a giant company, not a pussy socialist country (do you want to be French? look at their un-employment rate and get back to me...). You bash McCain for running a 'dirty' campaign? NEWSFLASH* every single politician since they days of Rome's early Republic has used a degree of manipulation and other things you would say are 'dirty'. Hell, our country was founded by terrorists (thats a fact). Flip-flop? Really? OF COURSE HE FUCKING FLIP-FLOPS. that is PART of being President, being flexible and constantly adapting policies. Anyway... That is just saying that McCain is better than Obama (and Republics are better than Democrats). Palin is a fucking twit and i in no way support her. In fact, i dont even support McCain, i just think he is less of a douche bag/turd sandwich (to quote South Park, a great political satire) than McCain. If Ron Paul was still running, i would vote for him! RON PAUL '08 BITCHES --Bim (talk|contribs) 15:00, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I'll agree McCain is better, but you're a fucking ignorant cunt. Research your shit and get off the elephant cock. I swear to god, if one more person starts arguing the same points the fucking ad campaigns have been feeding them, I'm going to disconnect you from the internet permanently. Also, Ron Paul was by far the worst candidate I've ever seen. Nader would be a better option, because at least legal weed would drive tax profit and put spending back into the market. Next time you want to post about a political topic based on a few ads you watched or hand-outs you read, slam your face against your desk several times. Especially when you're going to a page watched by a few people who, for the better part, actually have a clue about what they're talking about. And don't even try to say you researched or that you know what you're talking about. Anyone who reads what you just wrote and who isn't riding a campaign cock already can see it. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] ツ cedave   (☆contributions☆)  21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
 * are you saying Obama isnt actually black? I KNEW IT! it was all a campaign plot! --[[Image:Bim_sig.PNG|19px]]Bim (talk|contribs) 15:07, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
 * He's actually Korean. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] ツ cedave   (☆contributions☆)  15:20, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow...Bim...I thought you were serious until the "South Park is great political satire" and "vote for Ron Paul" parts. Don't scare me like that.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  16:27, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

OBAMA SUCKZ...
'''Lier! Lier! Lier!, hes a bloody lier, and a terroist...''' Jjberks 21:19, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
 * ...--TheHunger 21:22, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't like when someone says stuff like that about any candidate, no matter what party, as most people are biased, but imho McCain would be my choice. -- &mdash;The preceding leet comment was added by Arcane . 21:30, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
 * [[Image:dramallama2.jpg]]
 * ups someones a nigger. [[Image:Cedave_bad.png|16px]] ツ cedave   (☆contributions☆)  21:36, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

LIEZ
You know we wouldn't have McCain for 4 or 8 years. We would have Palin as president for at least part of that. -- Armond Warblade 17:24, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 * Palin would probably be impeached. No one likes her and on her first day she'll make some bullshit decision. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   17:37, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 * Make the bridge to Russia gogo-- ツ <font face="Monotype corsiva">The <font face="Monotype corsiva" color ="black">Gates  <font face="Monotype corsiva" color="black">Assassin  17:39, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 * [] gogo [[Image:Tai_Sig_Image.png|19px]]<small style="border-style:solid;font-variant:small-caps;border-width:2px;border-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"><font size ="1" color="black" face="verdana">McTai  17:40, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 * Haha, Palin likes the Mavs apparently. Go Spurs! Also, 8 years ago, I would have voted for McCain but mavericks don't sell out. He's such a puss for doing exactly what the GOP wanted him to. <font color="maroon" face="trajan pro">Karate <font color="olive" face="trajan pro">Jesus  [[Image:Karate Jesus.png|20x20px]]  <font color="black" face="broadway">chop!   17:44, 3 November 2008 (EST)