Archive talk:Rt/any High Energy Rit Lord

This is the Rit Lord build we run in PvE now in my guild. It is based on the +30 energy from Empowerment + Vorizun and it kicks MAJOR butt. I put it as it's own build because I think the original one is too diverse. I don't think this can be listed as just a "Variant" of the old one because frankly, I don't think the old one can do ANYTHING as good as this one. So, the concept of listing Mighty Was Vorizun and Empowerment as simply "optional skills" in the old build, to me, is a gross mistake as frankly THIS is the way the buil should be played now. So, instead of rewriting that build after it has been tested and approved, I am submitting this one. I am clueless as to the rules of this place. So, let me know if there's anything to fix. --Karlos 22:28, 10 July 2007 (CEST)

No offense, but this is just a rit lord with Empowerment + Vorizun. Should be merged with Build:Rt/any Ritual Lord Prot. Empowerment and Vorizun just fills the optional slot. Mgelo21 22:30, 10 July 2007 (CEST)


 * You did not read what I wrote above, did you? --Karlos 22:45, 10 July 2007 (CEST)

This build has the same problem as the original rit lord, energy management. Maximum energy does not equal energy management. You gain 40 max energy which is 1 shelter and 1 other spell(maybe 2 with boon). Thats two skills for one extra use of shelter.Even on energy recharge this isnt anything weapon swapping couldn't achieve without wasting two skills. This build is not suitable for TA,just another soft target thats easily interrupted with a small amount of support and no offense,and it probably wouldn't help much in RA where the lack of an offensive character can be your doom. I won't argue the usefulness of a Rit lord in urgoz although as I've said before weapon swapping > this.--DeathByPepsi 22:39, 10 July 2007 (CEST)


 * It is clear to me, that you have not tried this. Try it and then tell me your thoughts. I have Rit Lorded extensively in both PvE and PvP, I have all my gladiator points in RA using a Rit Lord, I DO have a clue how it's played in both. To say that weapon swapping is > than this build is... no offense, extremely naive of you. Try the build. Take it into PvE play and WATCH your ability to spam spirits with all your 4 pips of energy and you'll find that you will start having issues about the 4th or 5th iteration of Shelter, which in most battles (PvE or PvP) doesn't even happen. If you try the build, you'll understand why weapon swapping is like completely inferior to this. You're like the half-dozen guys who yelled at me "Shelter in RA? noob!" on my way to another gladiator's point when I first took this into RA. It DOES have flaws especially with the inability to counter interrupts and I took out Empowerment for Mantra of Concetration there, however in terms of energy, it is NOTHING like the stuff you're mentioning. --Karlos 22:45, 10 July 2007 (CEST)


 * I have played builds just like this and if you weapon swap correctly it has the same effect, Swap for enough energy to shelter swap back use the 20 something second recharge to refill energy rinse repeat(this is only needed when you are already low on energy). And just because you got a few glad points in RANDOM arena doesn't mean the build is effective or optimized, I've gotten a glad point off of opposing teams resigning in RA. As for pve if you have problems with energy management in general PvE no offense but max energy isn't going to help you.--DeathByPepsi 23:29, 10 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Not bad, I wouldn't run a Rt Lord usually in RA though. Glad points really mean nothing guys (Really, they are worthless lol), no point arguing about them. Weapon swapping is pretty meh for Shelter. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 23:48, 10 July 2007 (CEST)

This build should be merged with the previous Rit Lord, beings that it's only a 2 skill difference.--76.175.222.57 00:33, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

MERGING SUCKS. DELETING IS BETTER. I hate merging. - Skakid9090 00:35, 11 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Skadid is right. That ritual lord build does have the variant slots and mentions of these skills on the optional slots. If anything, slot MwV and Empowerment onto the optional slots, but there's no need for a big merge between these two articles. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 06:05, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

Merging with that other build
Ok, I am splitting that discussion in here. This build, for those who have not tried it, is able to SPAM Shelter. Something that original build can no longer do, thanks to ANet. Now, the issue here is: Do we consider a build that can keep Shelter up throughout the whole fight equal to a build that can't? How can you say it's a variant? Because it uses the same elite? I think being able to spam Shelter is a HUGE thing (in PvP or PvE) in fact, the old Rt/any Rit Lord build is actual defunct as having Shelter there to spam will render you useless. Most people run it without shelter. Can anyone address these issues instead of saying "merge! merge! delete!" --Karlos 02:25, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * It's better? Then keep. End of discussion. - Skakid9090 02:26, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * i have never been a fan of the logic: "same elite, same build, rest just variants." empowerment and vorizun make this a COMPLETELY different build.  i have only run this a few times, but having teamed with others that have, i must say i find it far superior to the old one.  it is comforting to see shelter up as often as it is. --61.180.231.2 02:35, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * played it: zomg!  shelter down..it's ready...but i have no energy for it!   wait!!!  yes i do!  shelter up again....team happy....GG 61.180.231.2 16:58, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * holy crap! that girl at ip 61.180.231.2 is like, mmm...supper l33t or something --Vanessa 17:51, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

A build with 2 skills that differ from the original build is no stand-alone build at all, that'd be like including different articles for each variant skill in a Fire Nuker or Minion Master.--76.175.222.57 21:27, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

delete rit lord, replace with this. gg. - Skakid9090 21:58, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

I'll archive the old one, since it used to be very popular. This is actually a working build, I've used this (exact build) since NF. - Krowman    22:03, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

This is a great build, actually - once you get into the rhythm, you don't run out of energy that easily. Using Empowerment to actually give yourself energy (while under the effects of Boon of Creation) was one tactic I found that helped. The only problem are interrupts, but the ranger ones are out of the way once Displacement is down. --Samaels 21:14, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

Equipment
For obvious reasons, casting weapons aren't needed, but what about armor? Full radiant insignias required or can one get away with using herald insignias? --Talonz 20:53, 23 July 2007 (CEST)

Preference. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 20:55, 23 July 2007 (CEST)

Just as a suggestion for Runes I would say replace the Superior Spawning Power rune with a Major Spawning Power and the Minor Communing for a Major Communing you would not only gain 15HP but both Shelter and Union would become lvl 8 Spirits gain 24HP and 6 Armor the only drawbacks to this would be a slightly weaker (not even noticable really) Boon of Creation and Empowerment Hopeless Situations 05:50, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

Oh also forgot Displacement and Empowerment also lose 9HP with 15 Spawning/14 Communing compared to 16/13 Hopeless Situations 05:55, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

Energetizing was Lee Sa
Great skill, since you will have all the time max energy. There is only 4-second gap between each EwLS, but you won't even notice it. Of course, take it instead of Vorizun. &mdash; Abedeus   20:02, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

Well, here's an in depth skill Comparison (at 16 Summoning and 13 Communing, and assuming Empowerment is always up):

Energy Regen:

Vorizon: Energy cost 5 per 54 sec, no added energy regen. Cost per sec: 0.09 E

EwLS: Energy cost 10 per 22 sec, 2 added pips for 16 sec. Cost per sec: 0.45 E

Energy gain 11 E per 22 secs + 0.66 E/sec for 16/22 secs = 0.5 + 0.66 * 0.73 = 0.98 E/sec.

Net cost:

Vorizon: -0.09 E/Sec

EwLS: +0.53 E/S

A net difference of near 2 pips of regen, in EwLS favor.

Other Uses:

Maximum Health / Energy / Armor:

Vorizon: (+ 15 AL + 30 E) + 47 Health + 10 E always = + 47 Health, 40 E, 15 AL (average)

EwLS: + 47 Health + 10 E for 16 of 22 secs = + 34.18 Health, 7.27 E (average)

A net difference of 12.18 Health, 32.73 E, and 15 AL (all in Vorizon's favor)

% of time spent casting:

Vorizon: 2 out of 54 = 3.7%

EwLS: 2 out of 22 = 9.1%

Nearly 2.5x more time spent casting EwLS, so this is also in Vorizons favor.

It should be noted here that the time it would take for the Energy Regen of EwLS to catch up with the energy boost of Vorizon is 52.79 secs, a time longer then most normal PvE battles and longer then you're likely to live in most PvP battles, especially if you don't have the extra armor and health from Vorizon. The casting time of EwLS also makes you much more interruptable and constrained in how you play.

So my opinion is that Vorizon wins out, but you can look at the math above and make your own decision. --   23:22, 20 December 2007 (EST)

TA
Not suitable at all. With the Magebane Shot Ranger, there's no chance any spirits will get laid down after the initial placement. Taking off tag now.  Shen has cookies 17:30, 26 December 2007 (EST)
 * Really though, there should be some debate as to whether this is suitable even for RA. It's a great build, but should be exclusive to PvE in my opinion. [[Image:Shogunshen_Holidaysig.jpg|20px]] Shen has cookies 17:58, 26 December 2007 (EST)
 * I've tried builds like this on RA and I agree they aren't very good. They cast really slowly, and with the fast paced RA battles the long casting times makes them a target for interrupters. Also, if you get attacked and you are by yourself or with other players that are defencive only, you're screwed. Oh yeah and there's a slight rit lord nerf on PvP. Agreed though, it is great on PvE.--Grandmaster Chen 08:46, 23 November 2008 (EST)

RA
This is not an RA build. This is a great PvE build, but not RA. This might work in AB/CM, but not in TA/RA. I think the RA tag should be removed - it's only hurting the build's rating. <font color="Green">Ekko <font color="LightBlue"> Starr!  15:14, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Archive?
Don't really see why this build no longer counts. The original sucked, but this is pretty decent IMO. Not all PvE builds have to work well in elite areas to be effective...--81.158.59.190 19:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Archive tag is kinda wrong. it should say something along the lines of "Spirit spammers suck in PvE"  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 09:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Most" spirit spammers suck PvE. This build is very nice though, complex as hell to run but effective.--86.153.180.100 21:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Life Guardian what are you on about? There are some great Spirit Spammers out there. Check this out. Oh and check out too. Some great builds. I'm not so keen on this build due to its complexity, but I have been in parties with people using this build (or builds similar to this) and it seemed to be effective enough.--81.158.56.12 17:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * With the recent buff there is no reason for this build to be archived.--86.146.2.51 18:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)