User talk:Rapta/Archive 5

Coffee and Tea
just made the user box for those who like both (pfff we all know coffee's better!) you need to put on your user page-enjoy =) PheNaxKian (T /c) 21:57, 30 September 2007 (CEST)

I was taking a break from GW when NF came out, should this be archived or was it unfairly favored? — Skakid9090
 * No one used it, wasn't favored for any noticable duration. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:15, 4 October 2007 (CEST)

1
You're an organization beast. — Skakid9090 00:24, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * You make it sound like a bad thing. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 09:22, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

Edit Conflicts Much?
That must've been like the 6th edit conflict you've had with me today :P. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  08:56, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, that's quite a lot. Beats my previous record of two >.> &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 09:00, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

Small Question
Seems you have added back the Hero tag at Rt/E WoQ Support Rit, but are you known with the facts that the Heroes only cast WoQ on themselfs? That's what me and Tycn found out after testing it. Tomoko 10:05, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Micro iz gud. --Edru viransu //QQ about me /sysop 14:08, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * This does not understand your language please try again ^^ Tomoko 15:19, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * He means make your hero cast it on the target you select by pressing the skill manually. Microing = using skills for heroes. - Auron 15:46, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Im all out of questions tyTomoko 10:47, 10 October 2007 (CEST)

Way of The Scythe
why do you want to delete my build because the only favoured one was in pve general which makes we need a pvp one have you tried my build? Master of Water 16:43, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Can you link me to the build? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:36, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

Less NPA please. --Edru viransu //QQ about me /sysop 23:55, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * That was regarding his use of logical fallacies in his arguments. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:56, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh, you should be more specific when expressing agreement with statements containing NPA violation, then. It made it seem as though you were agreeing with the calling Reithan a troll. :) --Edru viransu //QQ about me /sysop 23:57, 8 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah, I see that now. I usually try to minimize having to type a lot. It would suck if I got carpal tunnel. =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:59, 8 October 2007 (CEST)

Polite note about a vote
Rapta, could you elaborate on your vote of my build, ? The comment seems more neutral than negative, and I would appreciate at least some feedback in the discussion considering it was such a low vote, as even Hyperion` (who also doesn't care for the build) gave the build a higher rating than you, and he has been actively participating in the discussion. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Feralfox (contribs).
 * I believe Rapta was being facetious. For the most part, you'll be more effective in PvE if you're doing AoE damage since focusing on a single target is inefficient.  Therefore, in effect, he was comparing the build to standard PvE Necromancer builds, FoC and SS, and making the point that those will be more effective for the aforementioned reason, and thus, in comparison, you would be ill-advised to pick the Discord build.  Please note that this is simply my interpretation of Rapta's comment, it is not an official answer to your question.  [[Image:Defiant Elements Sig Test 2.JPG|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  06:15, 16 October 2007 (CEST)

Sorry, can we discuss this more civally?
First I would like to apologise for my comments earlier, I was out of order and should not have gone on the way I did. Sorry.

Now moving on, I submitted a build which in my opinion for general PVE is a superior MM build than any other posted here on the wiki for general PVE. You said it was a duplicate of the general MM or the Heir to the Master? It's a mix of both and in my opinion as already said, superior for General PVE usage, which is why I tried to get it vetted. How about let the community decide if it's superior or not because it's better than the builds posted on the General MM page so far, and there is no Mystic Regeneration posted there in variants.

In regards to checking builds first I did! Other than those two builds I have no idea of any other builds to check against, I posted it because as said I think it's better and should be the staple MM build run by the majority of MM's in PVE today. Now in regards to this you should have posted what it was similar to first and I feel that you was wrong to simply delete it without even showing why or how in anyway and without even allowing me to even discuss why I feel it was more superior, that only served to infuriate me.

I'm sure we can settle this in a more civallised manner than previously done. Unreal Havoc 00:55, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * We don't have a "General MM" page. We have a few MM builds that your current build is a varient of. We have much more than just two MM builds. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:00, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I think it's four, actually. His is closest to the N/any. Lord Belar 01:04, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * The point is the version I posted is, in my opinion better, than any other version submitted for PVE. There are other MM builds on the wiki but in that case all MM builds are pretty much the same aren't they? What do they do? Raise minions and survive right? Now my build was probably closest to the Heir of the Master, however in PVE most people I assume prefer taking Flesh Golem due to being able to make a high level minion and having an exploitable corpse. As a COMPLETE build the version I posted while not particularly new in concept gives good survivability compared to other PVE builds posted and especially the original MM build for PVE, and good management for spamming Blood of the Master that takes advantage of other enchantments mainatained to give you a great self heal. The N/Any doesn't even have Mystic Regeneration or a Dervish variant listed. Unreal Havoc 01:24, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Again, your build already exists. It doesn't matter that "you think it's better" when it already exists. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:28, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

But this version DOES NOT exist for PVE. Show me a N/D MM for PVE and I'll give you a cookie, show me a PVE variant that lists taking Dervish secondary and I'll give you one. Unreal Havoc 01:31, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

This situation is retarded. No one should care. Stop caring. Terror 01:33, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

I care. Question: Are you an admin Rapta? If not then what right do you have deleting my submissions anyway? If so please ignore that last question. Unreal Havoc 01:35, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * If he's not an admin, how the fuck do you think he's deleting them? Lord Belar 01:36, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

Well I don't see him listed as one. Considering it was you asking me to be polite (which I am with an apology) kind of contradicting your attitude isn't it? :s Unreal Havoc 01:38, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

Rapta isn't an Admin, and he didn't delete your page, he moved it. Going back to the matter at hand, all that you two have accomplished is to restate the same point about half a dozen times. This shouldn't be particularly hard to resolve, either there's a similar build (as per PvX:WELL) and the build in question doesn't belong in Testing, or, there isn't, and the build goes to testing. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  01:40, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * I don't beleive there is a similar build for PVE, it may have some of the skills added as variants on the N/Any but the skill combination on a complete build is what is important, not a few variants thrown onto a general build where people have to figure it out themselves. Considering the Relentless Spiker has an exact variant listed for AB, made from the PVE version bar one skill, I find this debate kind of absurd. :S Unreal Havoc 01:47, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Then add a discussion to the talk page of the AB build regarding adding a PvE variant (include the proposed variant) and see what people have to say. [[Image:Defiant Elements Sig Test 2.JPG|50x19px]]  *Defiant Elements*   +talk  01:48, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * (EC)Have you read the N/any build? There are full explanations of the variants, and it's not like figuring out a variant section is hard to understand in the first place. Lord Belar 01:50, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

Just because you think the build is better doesn't mean that it is, and it doesn't mean that there isn't already a variant of it around, whether you choose to believe that or not.  Vanguard  01:49, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

There is no N/D MM for PVE, it is not listed as a variant in the N/Any MM for PVE. It does not have Mystic Regeneration listed as a variant, neither does it have the skill combination listed as a variant. If you don't think it's better than the general MM, vote against it, though why you would want to is beyond me because the N/Any compared to this is crap. It's a good working build that serves its purpose well in high level areas in PVE and deserves to be shown as such on the wiki. Unreal Havoc 01:56, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * There is now. It has been added as a variant in the N/any. Lord Belar 02:00, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * (EC)^And that is the first contribution for the 28th, too. :P And that was not random. Lord Belar 02:03, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

I see it's been added as a variant to the N/Any. So why couldn't that just be done or suggested in the first place? If it doesn't work so well why do it huh? LMAO! Thankyou Lord Belar Unreal Havoc 02:01, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * It was suggested. Lord Belar 02:03, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

Gz on 1st contribution. :p While we're at it what about the minion stealing AB variant I posted too? I'd like to submit that but am now unsure how to proceed with it. It's kinda similar to the N/D submitted but has Malign Intervention and Veratas Gaze instead of Animate Bone Horror and Resurrection Signet, and has different usage. :s Unreal Havoc 02:06, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I looked at that, and that is not a viable build. Malign+Vgaze does what Animate horror does, only using more skill slots. Lord Belar 02:08, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * At first glance it's easy to see why you would think that, but think of it like this. With your team (you should be with your team anyway not on your own), cast Malign on the target being spiked by team members, instant minion without being beaten to the corpse by an opposing MM, also gives you the ability to steal minions from opposing MMs. Unreal Havoc 02:14, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * (EC)Bloodstained Insignias, Deep Wound. Also, spike teams don't usually bring MMs. Lord Belar 02:18, 28 October 2007 (CEST)

Take this back to my userpage? I think Raptas eyes will bleed when he reads all this! :D Unreal Havoc 02:14, 28 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Spam is good. :D Lord Belar 02:18, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Also, spike teams don't usually bring MMs. MMs have to travel with someone though, better they have some use in aiding foes to kill rather than just sitting there waiting for their team to kill something. Unreal Havoc 02:23, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * You don't spike in PvE. MMs are only good for PvP in AB, where you don't really have a team. Lord Belar 02:31, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * AB is what the Malign version was for. :s If you have a team they should by rights stay with you. It's not a mob it's a team until other teams join you and form a mob. In Ab teams should stick together to cap, and MM's should not be left alone as they are nearly always the targets of spikes. :D Unreal Havoc 02:35, 28 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Teams should stay together, but the chance of that actually happening is slim to none. Lord Belar 02:20, 28 October 2007 (CET)

Random PUG teams? Yes I totally agree, but if you're running a Guild team with some organisation (something we do alot of in AB) there's no reason why you shouldn't stay together, inclduing death. Unreal Havoc 02:27, 28 October 2007 (CET)


 * This discussion is becoming, as Terror already stated above, even more retarded. Discuss this on any existing MM build, don't whine here. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:25, 28 October 2007 (CET)

Well we did find a suitable solution until you removed the variant listed on the PVE MM from the page. Good job, you just started it back up again, now whos retarded? Unreal Havoc (talk *pvxcontribs ) 03:31, 28 October 2007 (CET)


 * If actually read that carefully, I was stating that this discussion was retarded. Don't violate NPA. It was put on the wrong place. The PvP MM you're whining about is in the PvP section. Don't modify the PvE MM. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:37, 28 October 2007 (CET)


 * It was meant for PVE!!!!!!!! That's the whole point of it being placed on the PVE MM as a variant in the first place! It was the Malign Intervention variant posted under the Mystic MM that was meant for PVP. *Bangs Head* Please, pay more thought in future and at least try and discuss things on talk pages before removing them, now I'm going to have to re-add it! Unreal Havoc (talk *pvxcontribs ) 03:40, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * No, you're not. All the skills are already mentioned in the "variants" section. A complete bar is not needed. It's simply mix and match. In addition, please read over your own comments and don't be hypocritical. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:41, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * Mentioned in variants as seperate skills? Yes, as a complete build thats solidly usable in PVE? No. There is no harm in showing the skill bar for others to see. If you had discussed this first before deleting my build on my builds talk page this would have neevr have happend in the first place, also check history, it wasn't me who added it as a variant on the general N/Any MM in the first place, so get your facts straight!. <font color="Blue">Unreal Havoc (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Blue">pvxcontribs ) 03:46, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * That's the entire point of the variants section - to allow for flexibility. All you're doing is promoting redunduncy in build articles. If you like that to be a "staple" build, one that only you believe to be "superior", keep it on your user page. It is your version, and pushing it onto existing builds (regardless of whether it is you, or through other people) goes against Real Vetting (one bar, one build). Also, your build wasn't deleted, but move to your namespace. So really, read that last statement I typed in my last comment: don't be hypocritcal. I'm archiving this because this is growing in retardism. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 03:49, 28 October 2007 (CET)

Build:D/Mo Feathered Road Runner|Note
Although I don't disagree with your vote, the build does have a self-heal, just thought I'd point that out. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  01:25, 19 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh. I was referring to the lack of a ranged heal that can be used to heal yourself and NPC's as well. One that's ranged, preferrably. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 05:48, 19 October 2007 (CEST)