Build talk:A/E PvP Gust

I'm failing to see the need for Shock when the whole point of this build is Gust? Random Weird Guy 15:27, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * See Usage. It would be silly to have a build that is countered 100% by the enemy standing still and not attacking. HerpDerp 15:29, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, had that toooooo often :P  Shadow The Mayans are wrong! 15:30, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thoughts on dropping the knock down chain and taking a dagger spammer using Gust for its massive utility? Something like this.
 * The idea is to roll 1-2-3-1-4-5 and insta gib almost anything. Repeat every 10 seconds. I definatly think Gust would still be usefull with that bar. HerpDerp 18:49, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I prefer the first one on page because its enough to kill someone with series of knockdowns. Maciej2010 19:05, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's because all the ele's having some way to blind you but I feel like I can't get the full combo off enough. Maybe it will be better when we have fewer 3 ele 1 monk teams in RA. HerpDerp 19:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It's good that i never test builds in RA.......Maciej2010 19:27, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Lol. One of the things it's designed for is RA. Ofc it should be tested there. HerpDerp 19:28, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is also designed to JQ. Theres lots of enemies and when you die you don't lose so its the best place. Maciej2010 19:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What? I said it should be tested in RA aswell as other area's. Where did I make it seem like I was against it being tested in JQ? HerpDerp 19:47, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Where do you see "aswell"? Of course im just kidding. I just said JQ is the best option to start test it. Maciej2010 19:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Going back to the build, type in variants about shadow step to JQ. Also, if you use gust on yourself, target will take some nice damage. It mean you can spike with 6,1,2,3,4,5 and finish with 6 again. Maciej2010 20:04, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ^ Forgot to tell that if you KD foe with 6 you MUST skip 1. Maciej2010 20:08, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Giving an ally the buff is always gonna be better than the extra damage. HerpDerp 20:11, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * NOT ALWAYS. Believe me :D Maciej2010 20:14, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You will do 47 extra damage against an AL 60 target. Most people use sigs with bonus armour and have a shield set anyway so you will be doing even less. Even using it on an ally that isn't fighting with you and is just running past overall you will have helped far more. The only time that 40 damage will be more helpfull is when there isn't anyone esle in range or if you can't target someone fast enough.
 * Just had a bit of a win streak in RA with 2 melee in the team. When we were positioned in such a way that the entire enemy team got hit by Gust I would normally KD 3-4 people. Fucking strong. This might be viable in GvG as a split build when splitting 2 people. Also in an 8v8 situation you could still be getting massive use out of gust and spike assisting. HerpDerp 20:40, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * In short, this is just awesome and ready for vote. Maciej2010 21:08, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Votes
Am I allowed to vote on my own stuff? 23:16, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No one responded and I saw Rask had done it so I just went for it. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 23:39, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are allowed, as long as you provide good reasoning  Shadow Honor The Elementalists! 00:00, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

No shadow step or IMS means you're not using this in GvG. You definitely need both of those on one bar. disregard that, I suck cocks--TahiriVeila 02:15, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I hesitated at the start too, you're not alone  Shadow Honor The Elementalists! 08:57, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
 * i like the whole concept of this using the double knock downs however i am yet to test it. --  PermaSwag   talk  00:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC) 19:08, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

HA
Can someone good at HA tell me if this would work there? I want it tagged for every kind of pvp! 19:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't play HA so much but i think it will work good too. /\/\@( &#124; E&#93; 19:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Mediocre
This build is. It would've been better as such:

Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]   21:48, 9 January 2012 (UTC)


 * You want to take 2 IMS and not take an IAS? Lack of IAS is half the reason you trashed this. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 21:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for replying. It was a matter of merely showing more of a pressure chain than a sub par spike chain. At least this can be pulled off with out kd. If you so wish to remove Storm Djinn's, by all means. I agree that two IMS's isn't that too effective and I do apologize for my lack of feeling to check over what I do for this. But I have to state: the crux of my reasoning revolves around the inferiority of this build as a whole. That is something that should be noted, not a silly error. If you want, you can make it optional over Storm Djinn's- that is, if it makes you feel better. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 21:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Being patronizing doesn't make you right. I put a pressure bar on the talk page and everyone agreed the spike bar is better. I have also talked to several good gvg'ers and even as a split bar they agree a KD chain is better, You're not gonna kill a flagger with a pressure bar. A pressure sin has no place in organised PvP. Go make a Variant for RA and CM's with a pressure bar. That is, if it makes you feel better. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 22:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Macej has no idea what he/she is saying. Just because the spike may have the ability to kill someone holds no ground when it comes to a build. It's a matter of how the skills are utilized. WC works very well because it offers the ability to sppike even without a KD. It has other options to snare, output a fast burst of DPS (followed up by TF which has gotten me PLENTY of kills) while still taking up no space than it should. It has no IAS because it essentially doesn't need it. Leaping + Fox Fangs is great because they act like pseudo-IAS's in the sense they are fast activated without dedicating a skill slot for an increase in attack speed. This build can't do that and that's fine. As it is makes it mediocre. If you made it into a pressure chain rather than spike, you would see much better results. Hell, even this
 * it could work well. Because then compressing the usage of Gust + Shock (which means that the player will actually need to use an acceptable level of skill that wouldn't end with them being exhausted) and Gust + Storm Djinn's. You still have a spike, while it's relatively lower than WC, it still pumps a sufficient amount of damage to be considered fast pressure. I highly doubt the way the build is now or possibly changed can fit all PvP slots. That's something for the Guild Wars community to find out. The pressure build (which I do believe it should be) can work in all low end arenas and no doubt HA. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Go look at the PvP version of Fox Fangs then come back and tell me whats wrong with that bar. 22:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Still works. Problem? Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:18, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * This build looks fun, I feel like running it. I'll give you back the results if you wish, along with any variant. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:23, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * At this point I don't care if you don't change your vote because nothing I say will matter to you (If you can't do anything then do nothing). Its obvious your knowledge of PvP doesn't stretch beyond CM's. It would be nice if you stick to what you know but it would take a miracle for that to happen. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 22:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * To deny advice is to deny enlightenment. And from the way you post, it is almost borderline NPA, which is cute. The context of what you say is similar to what Minion like's to say. Truth is, pressure > spike for this build. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:36, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok. 22:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I see vincent has taken a working build, pasted a completely different sin chain on it that nobody thinks is viable, and then followed up by violently trash voting a bar that works and is recognised as such by GvGers. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  22:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are an idiot, Alex. Go to Obs and find the bar. Triple melee, with 2 warriors and a derv is the meta. Out of the hours I afk and obs, yet have I seen a sin being ran, let alone this build. Nice try though. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * He's too stubborn to accept anything he says is wrong. Don't even bother Alex. Someone else will hopefully come along and give a good vote and it will be like nothing ever happened. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 22:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I have not read the rest of this page or even looked what the mainbar build is, but that one you posted is dumb vincent. Why would you over run fox fangs with trip dual's Rawr 00:33, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually agree with vincent a tad on this respect. I find the chain severely unreliable, at least in low end pvp. With this month's flux any other assassin with a faster chain will shut you down, as well as the influx of blindbots in RA and competitive missions. I also don't fancy waiting for a caster to do something other than cast or be exhausted. The spike is slow and, although i haven't tested it yet, a pressure bar may be more helpful.-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  01:39, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Considering a pressure sin is just as screwed by blind and another pressure sin spamming next to you we can disregard those points. As far as the spike being slow im not even sure what that means. Shock is there so you don't have to wait for casters to stop casting and you shouldn't be completely exhausting yourself because Gust will be able to provide a KD most of the time. And I didn't think I had to go into this but the reason a pressure sin is bad is because an Onsluaght dervish does the same thing just better. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 01:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That actually isn't a viable point at all. If we were to only store the absolute best builds, not working ones for each profession, then there would be no paragon builds. No regular UW terraway, no sword warriors, etc. etc. And we wouldn't store this because WC does the same thing, but,imo better. The difference between blind and blocks on this spike and a pressure sin is that on this spike, the recharges make it 8 seconds to start again when something messes up, maybe more depending on exhaustion.-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  02:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Your first point makes sense but that doesn't mean it will see any use in game (apart from low end) and not thinking in pvx terms that makes it pointless imo. If you get blinded half way through your combo its more annoying for a spike sin but if you're perma blinded by an ele neither sin will be wasting energy on skills that only have a 10% chance to hit. The skill recharge on most pvp dagger attacks isn't much less than 8 seconds anyway. At the top of the talk page there is a pressure sin I suggested and I still think that would be good for destroying npc's on a gvg split but the Dervish situation makes me reluctant to accept it's as viable outside of a gvg split. It's nice talking to someone who isn't including a little insult in every response though and after I re read what I wrote when I brought up Dervs I didn't mean to seem patronizing. -(Adding this on after your edit)- The WC sin has got one advantage and that's the instant KD with the shadow step while this bar has the dc aftercast and shock casting time. I think the Half c/d on when you can spike and the other advantages of Gust make this more than able to stand up the WC bar though. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 02:33, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * In PvP it is a valid point, profession difference does not protect a build due to ability to reroll. Sword warriors are also archived (cripslash). -- Toraen   confer  09:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Couldn't be bothered reading the massive wall of text. Just needed to look at the minibar posted by vincent to get that he's a dumb fucking shit who doesn't understand that knocks win games on split chars. Somebody remove his vote because he's certifiably braindead.--TahiriVeila 09:30, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree... I also dont unterstand why this build has been removed from designed from JQ... It works good here - haste carries, protect quarriers, spike...../\/\@( &#124; E&#93; 17:13, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Which bar are you looking at maciej - the mainbar has horns of the ox and please don't tell me I have to tell you why it can't cap ranger shrines with bunched up npcs.. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  17:24, 10 January 2012 (UTC)


 * ura big meeny &mdash; <font color="#CC0099">Skakid  Rally- kupo! [[Image:S9M.png]] 17:37, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Funny thing that i capped with this build ranger shrine(i just didnt use horns of the ox and i just spam rest of skills), but shhhhhhhh..... /\/\@( &#124; E&#93; 17:43, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 1 more thing- builds like Lyssa Assacaster doesn't cap but they are designed for JQ.(<--- wtf?) /\/\@( &#124; E&#93; 17:59, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It was probably tagged for "CM" back before they were split, and no one bothered to contest the JQ tag afterwards (till now I guess, if you go raise the issue at that talk). -- Toraen   confer  18:09, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Gives up shock for no exhaustion, fast attacks, a snare, more utility, a chain that's less dependent on everything going correctly, and a little more damage.--TahiriVeila 23:02, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * +1, lms>ff has better usability in general. Cuts into the bar compression but its a split bar so who gives a shit. <font color="darkorange" size="3px">Gale  LUVS PEACHES! 08:26, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * This really doesn't need fast attack skills. It's not WC. --Silven Shadow 09:17, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What Silven Shadow said, but i think its nice one, too. But with shock you can q-knock: after gust or after Failing Lotus (if done correctly). /\/\@( &#124; E&#93; 13:06, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Another Votes section
Rask Last edit: 17:44, 16 Jan 2012 (EST)

After testing this it's kinda fun but not 5-5 material.

The only reasoning there is "not 5-5" which in itself isn't a reason and not 5-5 =/= trash. Add a reason. Or don't. I'm not gonna do anything else about it. Obvious bait. 00:33, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 3/3 isn't trash, it's still in the good category. Policing your build like some kind of vote nazi is a shit way to act so get off your high horse and find something better to do. My vote stands, and I'm not going to change it. I tested it, it's not that great. It's a fun gimmick nothing more. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 01:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What about "I'm not gonna do anything else about it" is policing? a 3-3 is a trash vote. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 01:10, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ^3-3 is trash now rask. The bar was raised when the 'other' section was killed. -- Toraen   confer  01:24, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What I meant to say is I didn't trash the build. It's still vetted and if he was competent he would have seen I edited my vote to elaborate on my reasoning. This is what I was telling you about on msn, he's got some issues with me or something. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 01:26, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If I was competent? You edited it after I posted here. Jesus. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 01:29, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * So this is resolved then. -- Toraen   confer  01:35, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Unless Rask wants to take a few more stabs at me yes, it's solved. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 01:36, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

GvG and AB tags are questionable
The current GvG meta is to have Gust on the flagger. Build:A/E PvP Wastrel's Collapse is strictly better than this build in those situations. Similarly, AB teams should have Gust on a midliner. I think this is bad in GvG and AB and should be tagged only RA. --War Pig5 13:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. Sorry for late reply, but if you want tag it for RA only you should delete this build aswell...... Maciej   [2012]  10:31, 26 February 2012 (UTC)