Archive talk:A/W Unsuspected Moebius

Lacks knockdown, but makes up for it with power. Railin 10:37, 18 February 2008 (EST)

No ench for lotus to work off of :\ Belgianbronco 10:56, 18 February 2008 (EST)


 * Lotus strike doesn't need an enchant. Misfate  10:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * oshiBelgianbronco [[Image:BelgianbroncoMesmerSig.png]] 11:05, 18 February 2008 (EST)


 * "Lacks knockdown, but makes up for it with power." Flurry takes away a lot of that power, and not much can substitute a KD, which can incapacitate a foe. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  11:33, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Flurry barely takes away any of the power. It doesn't remove any +power, which is most of any assassin's damage. I guess Iron Palm could be changed for the IAS, but that would make the spike reeeaaally slow. Only for arenas though, knockdowns aren't needed in ganking or PvE. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 11:36, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Quote: knockdowns aren't needed in ganking or PvE. I'm about the gank stuff now, you're really wrong. Kd chain on a split monk/rit in ganks is even more deadly then kd on a monk at flagstand, really. In flagstand you have a backup monk and sometimes a bsurger/ward/aegis/ect. In ganks, you're all by yourself, thus a kd on your head when you're about to cast makes you a dead muppet. If you're lucky and kd him on his guardian, you got a dead target. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  10:53, 19 February 2008 (EST)

This build mows down NPCs insanely fast. There's no downtime...you just walk on over to the next one and keep doing the chain. Was pretty scary watching it in action. Zuranthium 11:48, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Dslash with FGJ is even more scarier for NPC's(if you forget about their healing). —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  12:48, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Erm, no it's not. It doesn't kill as fast, there's obviously downtime with FGJ, and a Dslash bar like that can't carry both Siphon Speed and Dark Prison like this build can either. Zuranthium 16:47, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * I was talking in theory, ofcourse D-slash doesn't win, it's just like LOLWUT 80 DPS SPAM. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  10:13, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

@ votes.

 * 1) Flurry can be changed for Tiger Stance as said in Variants.
 * 2) Lotus is e-management.
 * 3) Siphon = Snare+IMS
 * 4) Dark Prison = snare+shadowstep.

TY. :D Railin  11:40, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * /agree. Althought i'm not so sure about this build, i'll agree with you that the current votes are based off of bad premises. Bob fregman 11:44, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * One of the jap sinsplit guilds runs this. I forget which. Lord of all tyria 11:45, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * HAnD. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 11:46, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Mobius builds
is this REAALLY a new build? seriously, delete it, reason: uncountable similiar builds have been up, trashed, favoured, unfavour or whatever, plz, just plz not another mobious / death blossom spammer! we got enuff of em! delete it seriously.. plz.. Im sick of Mobious/DB spam...--Majnore 12:19, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * This can do more than just spam MB/DB. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 12:24, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Top 50 guild(s) run it, so really, we should keep it. Lord of all tyria 12:27, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * IT CAN ALSO SPAM TWISTING FANGS! :D - Star Seeker  |  My talk  12:27, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * this is pretty much any other Mobious/DB spam except it has their optionals on the main bar and vice versa, and the sole reason that HAnD used it in a moment of weakness doesnt give it the right to stay on the wiki when there is tons of similiar builds. --Majnore 12:40, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Amagawd! Amen, Twisting Fangs spam for the win! You'r joking Lord of all tyria right, only because Top 50 runs it doesn't mean it's good. ≈Display  [[Image:Blackout.jpg|19px]] 12:43, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'd consider any build that raped [me]'s sinsplit to be pretty good tbh. Lord of all tyria 12:44, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Generally raping sinsplit is more about tactic than builds, since they outbuild you in any way. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  10:14, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Lol people, at least read the whole page before voting. I'm not even telling you to try it, just to read. Or shall I put the variants category a little higher so you don't have to scroll? Railin 13:17, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I think you should put it higher for the scroll wheel impaired. I would do it but I don't like making "major" changes to other peoples builds, so its all yours. Justing6 15:08, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Energy management
I actually have to question this builds energy manamagent. After spamming DB/MS for a while you then have to spend 20 energy to regain any. How is this practical without Critical Eye? Selket Shadowdancer 16:02, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Zealous daggers. Just autoattack for a bit and change targets. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 19:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)

You're 1 point away from missing the 3 energy breakpoint for crit strikes. Move a point from dagger into there or make the headpiece critical strikes.&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 16:11, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * You do have a point there. This needs 13 crits. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  16:12, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * You're right. :D [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 19:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)

For larger damage...
Shouldn't weapon of agression be used instead of flurry for larger damage? Attributes from deadly arts could be moved to chanelling magic (i dont see a point in having siphon speed, death's charge would be much better). Xaero 05:23, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * gw:Snare (terminology). Also, read this. --71.229 05:28, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Interesting page. Maybe I should change Flurry to a variant and put Tiger Stance on main. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 05:45, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * You only based it on autoattacks though. I'm not sure, I'll need some others' opinions about it first. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 05:47, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Autoattacks are the only thing that changes within the same %IAS. Flurry doesn't reduce +damage. --71.229 05:49, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Teh Flurry stays in, simple as that. Tiger Stance = spike. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  10:42, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * If you're even concidering tiger stance with a moebius, you suck. Moebius is pressure, not spike. And as noted, damage is only reduced by like 3 each hit(which is nothing). —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  12:50, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Meh, tried Tiger Stance while spiking, didn't make any difference in damage. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 12:55, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * It did, in case you can't read. About 3 damage per hit. xD - Star Seeker  |  My talk  13:16, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * basically nothing. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 13:21, 19 February 2008 (EST)

This is my new favorite assassin build. @_@ Diego 02:47, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Name
Lotus Blossom and Twisting Lotus both sound better.--Relyk 00:15, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * I like Lotus Blossom, it fits because I can't think of any other Sin build that utilizes both Lotus Strike and Death Blossom. Zuranthium 01:19, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * I liked Unsuspected Sin. Lol. Diego 02:47, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Remove tags. Lacks the mobility of SP/Dcharge/DP. How about Unsuspecting Moebius? I fucking fail at creating creative names. --Readem 01:24, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Lotus Blossom sounded extra gay but I guess this one works too. Zuranthium 23:27, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Variant
This costs less energy to run and supplies an armour ignoring knockdown unaffected by Flurry.

[build prof=assas/warrior dagger=12+1 critic=11+1+1 dead=6+1][Siphon Speed][Iron Palm][Falling Lotus Strike][Twisting Fangs][Moebius Strike][Death Blossom][Flurry][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Would probably make a decent variant. Selket Shadowdancer 04:03, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Less damage, hex reliability. No. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] Railin 04:26, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Also, 20 second downtime, which ruins the best asset of this build. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 04:27, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Depends on where you use it and what you use it for. Note how I said variant? Not replacement. Selket Shadowdancer 05:45, 20 February 2008 (EST)

With the 12 second recharge of Lotus Strike in mind...

[build prof=assas/warrior dagger=12+1 critic=11+1+1 dead=6+1][Siphon Speed][Critical Eye][Flurry][Black Spider Strike][Twisting Fangs][Moebius Strike][Death Blossom][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Get straight into the dual attacks and do some real damage and not rely on your target being over 90% health for the bulk of your spike. Selket Shadowdancer 06:06, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Why are you trying to change a build to something that does less damage and relies on a hex when there's one with more damage and that you can start immediately? [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 06:16, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * MS/DB spam = perfectly good damage already. What I don't like is relying on a 10 energy lead attack in PvP to do the bulk of your damage when the chances of your target being over 90% health are slim at the best of times unless your sole purpose is to gib NPCs. Skipping the lead attack and getting into your DB/MS combo is far more beneficial. You say this is reliant on a hex but then you are reliant on said hex which recharges pretty quickly anyway for your snare so that hardly matters and anyone who knows how to play an Assassin using Siphon Speed should already know how to bait hex removal. Again, notice how this is under VARIANT, not replacement. Selket Shadowdancer 06:41, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * This isn't MS/DB spam. That would get it WELL'd. Even if your target isn't at 90%, Unsuspecting still does more damage than BSS. And BSS is 10e too, I don't see what's better about it. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 06:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * "and is also able to pressure with the Moebius Strike/Death Blossom combo." Looks like MS/DB spam to me. Getting straight into MS/DB is more beneficial than using Unsuspecting Strike because you are then able to spam your dual attacks, hence using BSS to get into MS/DB quicker which if needed again is recharged by MS. You're using less energy because you are skipping the lead attack, and not spending 10 energy for energy management, and are fueled by Critical Eye which isn't a one shot wonder as it lasts through a duration and cannot be removed and also boosts the damage dealt by boosting your chance to achieve a critical hit. Unsuspecting Strike, a conditional lead attack in its own right, is uneeded in my opinion. Selket Shadowdancer 07:03, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * And ofc, you are a better theory crafter than top 50 gvg guilds. The build is primarily meant to gank npcs as quickly as possible, and the unsuspecting->lotus->twisting combo does it faster than your one above. MS/DB helps out if you need to take out an actual player. The build isn't based around throwing out MS/DB, its just a useful add on to the orginal combo. Lord of all tyria 07:06, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * "MS/DB helps out if you need to take out an actual player." *Takes note of builds tags* ie: TA/RA. Selket Shadowdancer 07:30, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Its designed for gvg, and because its good, works other places. Lord of all tyria 07:44, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * That doesn't mean variants can't exist to take advantage of that. Tagged for AB the MS/DB spam is good for capturing shrines, getting into that spam as quick as possible can only be beneficial to the player and the team as a whole. Much more so than using Unsuspecting seems you're dealing AoE damage to NPcs and most likely they would already be below 90% health due to your DB/MS spamming. I can see its usefulness as it is for GvG splitting but in some other circumstances/arenas I'm not so sure it would fair so well as it is. Selket Shadowdancer 08:00, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * US is ok. I can't say I use it in PvP because blocking is insanely common in RA/TA but let's assume for a moment the target is under 90% health already? Well assuming they run 500-600hp, then that means they're already down 50-60hp, so you're only loosing on about 7-17 bonus damage. I can't say that I know what the GvG NPCs health levels are, but I'd expect them to be atleast that much, too. - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  08:05, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * USS > TF makes shit fucking explode, and therefore is good. /argument. --71.229 08:06, 20 February 2008 (EST)

a rule of thumb with unsuspecting strike is that if your useing it, you need 37 energy zealous 15^50 30+ use wild death blossom, you don't even need moebius, res sig thats 4 extra skills you can use for support, sins just dont need energy managment, i get alot of success with useing 450 or 480 hp combined w/ crit def that 3 skill chain and then support res sig or not

19:31, 23 May 2008 (EDT)19:31, 23 May 2008 (EDT)Wrath of the sin 19:31, 23 May 2008 (EDT) wrath of the sin


 * lol 400 health  Antiarchangel [[Image:Antiarchangel No U Sig.png|19px]] <font color=#C0641B>TROLL  20:27, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Maybe Frenzy over Flurry ? I prefer using frenzy, the double damage isnt that important (just cancel frenzy), whereas I dont like the idea of dealing less damage (with flurry). Stoella 19:14, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Heh, you could even use Flail, but then it wouldn't be as "unsuspected". ــмıкε  нaшк  19:15, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Wtb Twisting Fangs mainbar. <font color="Red">Ben <font color ="Cyan">..Squint  21:28, October 30, 2009 (UTC)