Archive talk:A/any Deadly Arts Spike Sin

Discussion
Someone wanna tell me if either of [ME]s sins ran sigs in the finals? --Hikari 17:48, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * one of them did, was the a/n, but he brought rigor mortis as well. idk if it was for siphon or res. also, its [Me], and they ran it with 15 deadly.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 18:15, 26 January 2008 (EST)

I would run pious assault tbh, its faster then impale and enery should manage it?, or am i wrong?, maybe isent that spiky but something. Fishy Moo oo  18:17, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * brain fart, its to much attribute in deadly arts, so impale i proll better. [[Image:Fish_Signature.jpg|User:Fish]] Fishy Moo oo  18:17, 26 January 2008 (EST)

15 Deadly for the main article or no? --Hikari 18:25, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Once again, Stop OBS! Well, this bar looks way better then the last one. Are you sure about 14 Deadly? Higher Dagger Mastery imo. Display 18:32, 26 January 2008 (EST)

How is this better than the Impaler?--Relyk 18:36, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * That's an ancient build, one of my old Guild Wiki favorites. I wanna see someone run Siphon Strength sins in a GvG. --Hikari 18:40, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * Anyway Relyk, the dagger mastery thing. 4 of the 5 skills used in the attack chain are Deadly Arts, you hit with daggers three times during the chain, two of those hits are mostly life stealing damage. Higher dagger mastery would only give you more of a chance to crit and a slightly longer poison. --Hikari 18:41, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * Always Nice to see a fan of my build (I started the "Impaler" Build on the old wiki and through lots of criticism it finally was vetted after lots of changed... i just really loved impales concept. The old build started when impale was a spell and used arcane echo to double impales =P...) and on that note i think i'll dissapear again =)--Midnight08 00:55, 21 February 2008 (EST)


 * No IAS isnt rly good. Shadow prison fell out of meta due to its 25 sec recharge.  Also, you were trying to go for an all deadly arts thing, but you invested in dagger mastery.[[Image:DestinyOfKiestsig.jpg|19px]]♪Destiny Of Kiest♪  (talk / pvxcontribs ) 19:31, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * No, SP fell out of the meta because BLS was changed to a lead, so you had to use a five-skill chain, which made it too slow to go TF -> BoS, which meant its damage suffered enough that it wasn't worth taking anymore. And no shit there's points in Dagger Mastery, Falling Spider is used to trigger SoTS. --71.229 20:00, 26 January 2008 (EST)

I did not invest in anything, this is [Me]'s build, not mine. --Hikari 20:36, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Stuff without self heal in RA is pretty hit or miss... Invincible Rogue 21:29, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Anything without a monk in RA is pretty hit or miss...--Camizzle 22:44, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Impaler is better with a few variants, which is what this is anyways. Shadow Prison isn't worth it. Moush 06:54, 27 January 2008 (EST)

WOW sad falling spider needs a KD and theres no condition for it &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.250.48.243 (contribs) 10:50, 27 January 2008.
 * Iron Palm -Shen 09:53, 27 January 2008 (EST)

lol! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.138.106.209 (contribs) 12:00, 27 January 2008.
 * Reading comprehension is good. --24.9.234.253 11:01, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Cheese Slaya is right, they ran 15 in deadly arts. Signet of Toxic Shock did 100 dmg at soft targets. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.58.126.250 (contribs) 13:05, 27 January 2008.
 * I think it did 100 dmg to all targets, since its armor ignoring(?) 193.91.164.176 12:14, 27 January 2008 (EST)
 * Ya, hopefully he meant impale, that does 100dmg to soft targets at 15 DA. Moush 14:34, 27 January 2008 (EST)
 * I'll change it to 15 DA then.--Hikari 15:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Put shock in the variants imo, allows another spike after ~15s, and is a great utility. Phalmatticus 15:39, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Death Blossom should be added to Variants (instead of Vampiric Assault, comes handy in AB). Dronte 14:55, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Why?
Everyone seems to share my opinions on the build, the spike is too slow. So why do you think [Me] ran this? The damage is fairly ridiculous, and the utility is there, but why would they run this over a trample sin or an AoD/Shock ganker? --Hikari 15:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)
 * I really don't know. I agree, the spike is very slow, and takes fairly long to recharge (20 seconds on iron palm), but the damage is definately there. Kinda a bad trade off imo, but they won with it i guess...&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 12:35, 28 January 2008 (EST)
 * Ran this in RA (lol) with Assassin's Promise (double lol), did pretty well. It's probably too slow for organized PvP, but the damage is definitely there.  Were they running it on a pressure team?  'Cause I can see it working there. --71.229.204.25 12:46, 28 January 2008 (EST)
 * No, sin split. With 3 mesmers 3 monks and 2 sins lol.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 12:48, 28 January 2008 (EST)
 * ...Huh. I'm going to have to obs this match if it's still around, then. --71.229.204.25 12:50, 28 January 2008 (EST)
 * I think they used this because the Vampiric heal saves their asses alot better than when u spike w/ the SP Sin. I know, I know, they don't need to rely on asses bein saved when they had that Mo/A chasing them around, but they made a few solo splits too.  Also, this build does 100's and 100's in one click not through dual attacks, and with this they spiked CE's Monks a few times.  So, I think it's decent if the team is in sync w/ the builds, but for RA Tramplers and stuff is better in my opinion. Toxin 20:47, 30 January 2008 (EST)
 * ya the spike is slow, but the damage, knockdown, and poison make up for it. its also really easy to use.

Me ran A/N with Rigor mortis and Shadow shroud(or that other shroud, i don't remember). Not sp. - Unexist  09:11, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * that's the variant, they used one of these with rigor and 1 shadow shroud using the variant bar &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  15:30, 31 January 2008 (EST)


 * It's still a extremely slow build that would've gotten Welled if it wasn't that [Me] (whoever those are) played it. God  box   15:31, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * And thus the build got its rating because Skadid removed everyones else's vote but his.--[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px|19px]] Lann 16:39, 31 January 2008 (EST)


 * Apparently you're oblivious to the fact of how well sineptitude works even if you have no skill. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:34, 31 January 2008 (EST)


 * You removed a buildmasters vote. And thus your statement is not justified. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px|19px]] Lann 15:45, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Skakid
Removed:

Siphon Speed provides decent offensive and defensive support, but that's about all this sin can boast. Whereas Iron Palm might be considered useful because the hex is readily supplied, the recharge is limiting, as opposed to a shock sin, because even though energy will take a toll, to have it avaliable during crucial moments is a big plus. Otherwise, this doesn't do much during the downtime. 8 second recharge dagger attacks that are delayed anyways by the necessity of a KD to start the chain. Powerful damage, but impale nerf absolutely doesn't help matters. Would not take over a Shock Sin.

Reason: Shock sins have terrible damage, meaning they have even LESS killing power.

Removed by: Skakid9090

I honestly don't see where I said otherwise. Your statement doesn't refute anything I mentioned. -Shen 17:20, 31 January 2008 (EST)


 * Would not take over a Shock Sin. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:34, 31 January 2008 (EST)


 * Also, you're implying that spike sins are used for pressure. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:35, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * Dual KD's allow for some devastating spikes. You rationalize the lack of Knocklock with the mandatory presence of a Shroud sin. Which is not to say it's necessarily bad because it functions to the fullest in tandem with one, only that a sin that achieve such an effect and boast incredible survivability offers more. I say "to have it avaliable during crucial moments is a big plus", that's not implying anything of the sort. Unless you are drawing from my downtime statement, which is wholeheartedly a factor. Actually, the shock sin that KD's so much more often indeed provides more opportunities. -Shen 17:45, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * Also, if you are going to make this more practical and say dual sins can work, you can't neglect the opportunities opened up when another character can take advantage of a Shock sin's KD's. -Shen 18:08, 31 January 2008 (EST)


 * But you're still theorycrafting =/ The hard facts are that shock sins don't have enough damage, so it doesn't matter what build the other sin is running. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  18:11, 31 January 2008 (EST)
 * Oh huh. --71.229 18:53, 31 January 2008 (EST)

I think Rapta cleared things up. -<font color="Black">Shen 15:50, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Honestly. If I (for example) had submitted this build this build would've become unfavored in less then a day. I've seen a almost identical build getting unfavored with only zeroes. I understand that some guild has played this build, but that doesn't necessary make it great. God box   05:53, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Its not great because they play it, they play it because its great.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 00:52, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Vote Removal ftw?
My vote is valid blah de blah de blah de blah... don't remove please.--Drowning Pigeon 12:28, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Sry you're wrong ^_^ &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  15:41, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * lulz, I'm right! changed reason, see these reasons:HB SP, look at "needs to be Great". Rainbow Ftw
 * meh, I cba with constant re-voting and now you removed all the bad votes for HB my vote here has no justification. Rainbow Ftw

[Me] fails
nuff said 199.235.123.239 13:14, 4 February 2008 (EST)


 * [You] phails more. God  box   14:10, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Go beat [Me]'s sineptitude on isle of wurms (split friendly map) while they have +100 health form the health shrine and your warriors cant do shit with 2 ineptitude's/clum's being spammed everywhere. Yes, its a gay as fuck build, but anet keeps failing and practically giving sineptitude teams the championship (every single map was super split friendly). [HGH] played it on druids (a build they had never played before) against a team totally specced against them, and still almost won. That's how imba this is right now.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 17:47, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * 3 Clums/Inept now. --71.229 20:29, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Meta Shifts
Ive seen this build in a few guilds while observing. Very good, but i wonder if another guild created it and you copied it, or you are the main inventor.<font color="Black">Ìmmφrτalìs αnìmµs a Kìεsτ  ( talk / pvxcontribs ) 21:41, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * Just because you posted it here does not make you the inventor. [Me] has been running sineptitude for months, not sure if they used these types of sins or not though.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:50, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * Eh? Talking to me? I didn't invent this, no. --Hikari 20:27, 7 February 2008 (EST)

As far as I know HAnD invented this. They recently changed this build for another one though. <font color="#033361">Railin 08:48, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Shock
Shouldn't Shock be in variants?--Relyk 23:39, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Different Eite?
I have seen people using this build, except with Shroud of Silence instead of Shadow Prison. Shadow Prison is really good, but Shroud of Silence totally shut down the monk while the team spiked them. I also think Siphon Strength would be fun to play with this build. Anyone have any input on either idea? Panda Man 00:21, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * Shroud of Silence: Sure, but you're still going to need a shadow step and a snare.
 * Siphon Strength: wtf no what are you smoking. --71.229.204.25 00:25, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * Archive:A/any SoS Spike Assassin [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 00:36, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * lol I totally didn't see that build. Thx. ^^ Panda Man 21:38, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 * ive tried this build and i didnt have the elite (cba to get it XD) but i tried Grenth's Grasp and changed the 1st 2 moves to golden phonix striike and trampling ox and it works quite well as a spike, because you got a snare there aswell.

Vampiric Assault
I don't have GWEN, would Nine Tail Strike be a viable replacement? - <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  20:37, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * Death Blossom. Imo. ~Dronte~ 09:44, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Archive?
Did this really deserve an archival? The 3 seconds less from Shadow Prison barely effects the spike, and Siphon Speed wasn't all that essential anyway. I'm aware [Me] no longer uses this with splitsin, but it's still worthy of an Other or Good build space. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.225.195.112 (contribs) 02:54, 7 March 2008.
 * Yes, this deserves an archival. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:00, 7 March 2008 (EST)

Falling Spider
Never got y use falling spider and not black spider. Makes the spike faster, albeit a little bit less damaging.  I Am    *  Jebus  *  22:50, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Less damage + more energy = fail maybe? --NYC Elite 18:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Unarchive
The only thing that was really hit is Siphon Speed, but you can replace that with Scorpion Wire and bring Dash. Scorpion Wire will provide a Hex for Iron Palm and even a knockdown for Falling Spider if used right. It's impractical, but still works great. -Mike 17:51, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Shadow prison got hit too. I'm not sure this really deserved an unarchival. Gogey 13:21, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It only really affected those with low Deadly Arts, and you target should be just about dead when Shadow Prison runs out. -Mike 23:23, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Impale was hit also. -- 23:31, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
 * That was quite some time ago, and people have still used Impale since then. -Mike 09:39, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Its still got an incredible downtime now that you don't have siphon speed as a hex and a spike that should be healable. AoD is better, so why does this even deserve to be here? Gogey 10:10, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Better than AoD in sinsplit imo. Sinsplit sucks now though. 84.9.10.165 10:15, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Siphon Speed as a Hex for what? Iron Palm? That's only a 5 second difference, and with Scorpion Wire, you can use its knockdown to start your chain more often (starting with Falling Spider). Plus, if done right, you can even snare two foes at the same time (Scorpion Wire on one, Shadow Prison to the other). Siphon Speed was a great skill, but Scorpion Wire (and Dash) can easily outdo it in this particular build. -Mike 10:35, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
 * So no res? Then no RA tag imo. Gogey 23:22, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd either take out Scorpion Wire or Dash for Rez. It shouldn't be a big deal as to which one, because they both serve to catch your opponent. It's funny how no one notices the effect of Scorpion Wire when I cast it, because they'll keep running away from me. In AB, I actually fought against another sin that was using Scorpion Wire, but we never had them casted on each other at the same time, though. >.> -Mike 07:09, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Bane Signet = Varient
this is a cool build - i have my attributes set differently however since i have a superior rune on my sin which means i got more points to slap onto deadly arts D.A@16 - my signet does 106 damage which i find works for me quite well 'just in case' the target survives & DOES try to kite - i get a few of those who have monks or condition removal or crap like mystic regen now n again & the signet drops then like a sack of shit even if they try run away - lets face it if youve managed to run your whole chain without the signet - 98% chance they arnt gonna have over 100hp leaving ur signet to overkill. i usually take Bane Signet in the optional slot which may seem a little impractical against casters unless they are wanding you but if you save the SP kD for casters & use bane for wammos, dervs & assassins the Bane varient works sweet as a nut. otherwise if your not sure about taking out casters with bane signet then just go after the melee classes, I have also tried out the scorpion wire varient & for me it doesnt work out too well as im always frontline - i have to cast it then run away from the target to trigger the shadow step & KD. IMHO it still works but its really down to personal preferances - most of the time i attack folks who are already attacking or people are most likely to engage you once you have initiated the attack e.g. shadow step to them & knocked them on their candy asses - very few players ill run from you once you start your chain unless their monks or casters or just stupidly low on hp or just plain noob runners.

so im adding Bane Signet to varients - anybody who doesnt like it feel free to revert- otherwise i insist you try it out before you revert it - even with 2 - no points in smiting bane signet still serves its purpose well in the build as a kd for melee classes

82.35.7.62 06:29, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It's a little conditional, but it could work. -Mike 08:25, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

mike, mike, mike, no bruv - your missing the point....it DOES work not just "could" work. a ranger cripshot build is a "COULD WORK" this works as I run this varient more then any varient & I usually take HEALING BREEZE but ive swapped self heal for less down time which in this build can be catstrophic if your waiting around for SP to recharge. the build works - you just gotta use your bain a little instead or mindlessly trying to spam attacks - conditional, yes but that doesnt mean it "could" work. - again its down to personal preferance but I favour heavily bane signet over any other optional skill. use your brain - its not just rat food for when you die.

p.s conditional??? iron palm is conditional my friend - your point is invalid

82.35.7.62 11:31, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Iron Palm's condition is met easily, which is a Condition or Hex, while Bane Signet's is an attacking foe, meaning it'll be harder to catch a caster with Bane Signet's Knockdown (even Bull's Strike can be slightly less conditional). I'm not against using Bane Signet, but I prefer Scorpion Wire because it's easier to guarantee the knockdown for the chain. Also, I wouldn't use Healing Breeze as my heal, even if it does allow me to keep attacking, but I'd use Restful Breeze or Feigned Neutrality instead, because if you have to resort to using a heal, you'll probably need to run away, anyway. -Mike 11:56, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

well unless everyones gonna say holy shit a sin & run away from you i dont find Scorpion Wire as useful because it wont give an 'on the spot' kd which means its less effective as bane signet which will give you an instant kd 'if' they are attacking. & the chances that somebody is attacking is higher then somebody kiting otherwise your gonna have to cast Scorpion Wire THEN run away from your target to trigger the KD which wastes time your a sin - your meant to be within fanny licking distance of targets (unless your a caster sin, if so then fair play) it just breaks down the overall focus on the target because either you or the target has to run away for it to trigger which id say 'is' more conditional then bane signet - i like said in an earlier post. once to SP>I.P & kd them their not likely to carry on running away from you - scorpion wire 'could work' but its a little less direct then Bane Signet - i mean if i slapped you around enough - would you carry on running away from me, stand there - do nothing & wait for me to kill u or turn around & take a swipe at me???? obviously your point of taking out casters taken which I have already mentioned taken into account. you just have to be a little more 'selective' when you pick a target I.E save SP for the casters & bane for melee classes.

if your build is setup correctly you wouldnt NEED to use bane signet with casters let alone worry about them kiting. use a bit of savvy thats all it takes - its not so complicated to understand.

your points are still invalid

62.56.75.104 14:26, 27 April 2008 (EDT)


 * No, they're not. Bane Signet is horrible - huge recharge and, realistically, far too conditional to see proper use. Scorpion Wire is similarly conditional, but at the very least, you can control that with a shadowstep. Iron Palm is arguably the best knockdown an assassin can get without giving up his secondary (the other choice being Horns of the Ox). Shock, obviously, outstrips all three, but it's not appropriate for this build due to the large amount of energy required for the chain and the speed you would lose by having to use a lead attack afterwards. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:06, 28 April 2008 (EDT)


 * well i have used bane signet extensively in this build & personally i find it goes with the build quite nicely. but fine, if you dont like it. everybody plays their chars differently thus has a different attatude towards to styles of play. the most important thing here being that i like it 82.35.7.62 16:37, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
 * If Iron Palm had a ~10 second recharge, this wouldn't be a problem. *hint hint* XD -Mike 17:25, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Siphon Speed
that skill is dreadful. what should i replace it with? ~ ʑʌɱʌɳəəɺɨɳɳ  (contribs) 17:20, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
 * dash prolly. God  box   17:21, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm not sure why it was changed back to Siphon Speed in the first place. Dash is your best bet, but in AB, take Dash+Scorpion Wire (instead of rez) so you can get through your chain more often. -Mike 17:26, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

Variant
[build prof=A/Rt deadly=12+1+3 dagger=3 chan=12][nightmare weapon][Assassin's Promise][dark prison][iron palm][falling spider][Vampiric Assault][signet of toxic shock][Impale][/build]

Nightmare Wpn + Vampiric are stealing over 160 hp (4x 42) so it's great healing and spike dmg in one attack.
 * I think we had a couple builds like that, but they were trashed probably because there's too much preparation before the spike, and you haven't any room for utility (rez, running, heal). Also, I think one of the builds had Shadow Prison+Ancestor's Rage instead of Assassin's Promise+Dark Prison. It's a strong spike, but sometimes too predictable. -Mike 09:04, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

Hidden caltrops
What bout using hidden caltrops instead? lower cd and can spread easy hex/cripple.Donnyv1 4:51, 13 May 2008 (EST)
 * It isn't very reliable as a mean to cripple, and that's a different build. -Mike 07:20, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

its a hex for Iron Palm as if the hex is removed, u have extra damage and a condition. It really is just a hex variant.
 * The you have no shadowstep Frosty! 08:08, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

Palm Strike -> Viper's Defense, you lose the KD and dmg, but it recharges quicker and is less conditional. urine moush  00:34, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

Only one problem, in Fort Aspenwood, you can knock down Luxon Siege turtles so it makes it a little worse but still an excellent build &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.119.49.253 (contribs) 20:54, 11 June 2008.

Varant's?
I think Beguiling Haze should be put into the variants because if you take your points out of critical strikes and put them into shadow arts that's a 6 second daze and the entire chain will still work. Bonus: Beguiling Haze is still a shadow step. JORLZ36181 15:32, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You mean Archive:A/any BH Spike Sin. Your target should be killed before Daze would have any real benefit, though. -Mike 15:37, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

PvE?
If you use Assassin's Promise and Dark Escape, can you use it for pve?NightHawk 21:08, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Probably, there's something like that in my PvE sandbox. --Guild of Deals<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 20:58, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * probably. Archive:A/R PvE Promise Assassin and Archive:A/any Dwarven Promise Spiker would probably both serve you better, though, as they were designed for it.--Reason.decrystallized 21:00, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

nerf
aftercast of all shadowsteps? Pwnagemuffin 20:03, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * This is gonna be much slower now, it wasn't exactly lightspeed in the first place.  Frosty  No U!  02:38, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

TA tag?
It should probably be removed. I'm also changing the main bar to not include Rez Sig, as that is only brought for the RA version. Zuranthium 18:01, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

Viable oO?
Just put it to Tested on Main Page.. So it gets a bit more attention.. Plz dnt say this is still viable.. Say your gonna gank whit this: 1) Cant kill a person whit moar than 500hp 2) No interrupt for troll 3) 25sec Recharge!!! 4) Selfheal.. This says enuff tbh... ARCHIVE! Massive  10:09, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I usually run something like Scorpion Wire to get around the 25 second recharge, but all of these nerfs are adding up. ــмıкε  нaшк  10:54, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I think the Shadow Step nerf was the straw that broke the camel's back, tbh. Instead of voting on it, we should just archive it. An 8 second spike every 25 seconds (slightly less if you bring another hex/knockdown) which deals little over 500 damage is not worth it anymore. Instead of voting, this should probably just be archived. ــмıкε  нaшк  11:10, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I run this in AB with Shock normally and it does well enough for me against NPCs and humans with careful play. Not so sure if its so viable for GvG anymore, though I can't see how it can't kill NPC's as the only thing thats really been hit since this was put up was aftercast to shadowsteps. On a further note, with AB in mind, this does see alot of play in AB so I would still say it holds a place on the wiki until it fully dies out. Selket Shadowdancer 11:18, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Then we should include Shock, Scorpion Wire or another skill to reduce the recharge of the spike. The current build is slow. ــмıкε  нaшк  11:20, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

YEYE DD;D;D; I made it x) Finally couldnt see the build anymoar to **** ^^^^ Massive  11:21, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

ill take my vote back since it was archived :) Massive   11:25, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

The new one?
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:A/any_BH_Spike_Sin

Would thaat be viable dont think the Aftercast was added to that one oO Massive  11:27, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Ya, that's the new SP sin. XD ــмıкε  нaшк  11:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Wait so
If this is archived why is Archive:A/any BH Spike Sin not, the trade off is a snare for daze, since BH has aftercast it is no faster, wikifail. -- Frosty  03:51, 23 August 2008 (EDT)