Build talk:W/any PvE Earth Shaker

Any comments? While PvP hammer builds suffer from the 10 second cooldown of Crushing, this build allows you to spam KD and conditions frequently. Tycn 15:54, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

I'd assume the optional is best used for something like FGJ? - Vermain 16:15, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

FGJ works, the downtime is a pain though. But with the spread of PvE mobs, it may not be as problematic as it seems. I'll have to test further to see if it's worth it. Tycn 16:19, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Taking FGJ in the optional slot will work wonders, Hitting your first enemy with FGJ+EC activate will net you enough adren to charge Earthshaker immediately, 1 for the hit, 3 for EC and 4 from FGJ. Then Earthshaker>Crude Swing>Whirlwind attack, gets around the -40 armour penalty and will most likely net you enough adren to hit with earthshaker again since FGJ should still be up. Rush as a variant is probably unnecassary. I usually use EC to cancel Flail and net adren back. Even if i don't activate Flail again straightaway it's at least ready to go again if i do want it. --BeeD 03:14, 22 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Errr... Isn't this just Pulverizing Backbreaker but with a different elite? --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  06:37, 25 December 2007 (EST)
 * only this one doesn't suck.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 16:03, 6 January 2008 (EST)


 * that one isn't aoe Holy Satish Complaint Department  16:17, 26 December 2007 (EST)

Much like something I've been meaning to try. Couple with a Splinter Weapon Rit would be lovely :D --BeeD 20:43, 2 January 2008 (EST)

"For Greater Justice" in variants please.--Relyk 20:07, 6 January 2008 (EST)
 * I've found that Belly Smash works great as an option 68.159.98.212 23:06, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Yeti Smash is a pretty good variant if you're like me and don't like taking a shitload of damage with henchman monks in hard mode from the -40 armor penalty. Mike 16:47, 20 January 2008 (EST)

KD Hammer Farmer
KD hammer farmer anyone? -- Tensaryu 11:51, 13 January 2008 (EST)
 * What about it? You're using that in general PvE?? Poor thing. Rickyvantof 05:53, 16 January 2008 (EST)

W/P perhaps? (variant)
Maybe this could do what the Dragon Slash build did with Enduring Harmony and For Great Justice. just a thought. 69.246.236.111 00:00, 19 January 2008 (EST)
 * Elaborate? This thing has two AoE attacks meaning you'll get a lot of Earthshakers anyway. Racthoh 15:30, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Condition Removal?
If condition removal is needed, what skill is best for this build? Rehkmu 22:35, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Restore Condition / Dismiss Condition on a monk works best &mdash;  Skakid  22:36, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Foul Feast, biatch.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 22:59, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
 * If you want to get them off by yourself, grab Antidote Signet. >> 188.123.27.192 18:40, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Stonefist Insignia
Why not listed?--Fallen (talk ) 16:37, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

I added it as an optional piece of equipment,hope nobody minds. Some of us like an extra one second on our knockdowns instead of five health. Wtbursanswtsizzy 13:31, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It's definitely worth the spot, even though energy should be gained quick enough for 2 seconds to be enough. God  box   13:35, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

wars that don't run stonefist make me lol. i personally run stonefists on all five pieces of armor. it's really funny seeing monks on their asses for 7 or over 9000 seconds. 71.230.145.170 02:56, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * That's awesome! Except for the fact that Stonefist Insig doesn't stack.... :P - [[Image:Ins420sig.png]] 420  12:47, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * They do if you use backbreaker. It's a bug. Probably due to how they implemented scaling KDs. - [[Image:Panic_sig7.gif‎]] 12:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * April Fool's, right? I can't find proof anywhere supporting this claim. - [[Image:Ins420sig.png]] 420  16:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Hero Bar
Discuss. --Guild of Deals * Wah Wah  Wah! * 11:32, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Mighty in stead of whirlwind? gasp – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 23:08, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

I don't think heros can use sunspear skills. 76.194.26.28 13:44, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That's why it's called a HERO bar. --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]] * Wah Wah  Wah! * 13:46, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Crude Swing
It is normal that my hero never use crude swing?

Apply Poison
how about adding apply poison to the variants section as hero's can use it? Gabranth
 * um... no. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 05:19, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

SY/SRS
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I thought with this build your adrenaline was all spent on your combos, not on SY, because your job was to knock people the fuck down and keep them the fuck down as much as possible, and blowing time and adrenaline on SY hinders that. Also, without serious adrenaline gain from, for example, FGJ + Enduring + dslash, you're simply not going to have enough adrenaline to keep SY up all the time (or even close), in which case you might as well just bring another physical that can. SRS was just included because, well, it's a res.

SY is certainly variant-worthy, though; I'm just not sure it should be mainbar when other builds can do it much better. -- Armond Warblade {&#123;Bacon}} 02:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe it doesn't deserve mainbar(although it is SY!, i mean, why not?), but SRS should gtfo. It's an awful waste of a PvE slot.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a pretty bad PvE skill, but it's certainly better than res sig and if you're not going to throw in SY, what else would you take? Most normal alternatives face the same problem as SY - they get in the way of knocking stuff down so you can blow shit up. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] {&#123;Bacon}} 06:10, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

PvE Skills Variant
Figured I would put it here since it fits as a variant. It works pretty well, although it's not limited to EarthShaker.

Earthshaker -> Low Blow -> any Energy attack to get 1 adrenaline because Low blow doesn't give any (I use crude Swing or Power attack) -> Body Blow. With the Cracked armor body blow does DW and does a lot of damage. Can work better with Backbreaker/Power Attack if you don't need the AoE knockdown.

Well, not too different from the build up there but it's pretty fun.Mlandry 01:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Tbh
In HM, Sand Shards is going to do like 5 damage. Life Guardian 04:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Tbh, Sand Shards is this build's second penis. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] {&#123;Bacon}} 04:35, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A very small and flaccid penis. Life Guardian 04:52, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * to scare the enemies away--Relyk 05:39, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

W/D
W/D Warrior with no Dervish skills on mainbar? 58.165.1.85 11:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * W/- ...thanks for playing, but try again.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 12:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...it's in the Hero Builds sections that's the problem though. It still says 'W/D PvE Earth Shaker'. Don't know how to change it, unfortunately. 58.165.1.85 13:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "For heroes, swap Whirlwind Attack out for either Yeti Smash or Mighty Blow"... -- Frosty  Mc Admin  13:41, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

New Icon
Looks like the icon for Whirlwind Attack was changed some time ago. Is there any way to change it to the new version? --Zombicidal 02:50, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * why does it matter? -- Drah 03:29, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Euhm, does any1 even use this build?:P 84.255.207.133 18:49, December 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Earth Shakerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr -- -©- (moo) -- 18:51, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone even use this build?:P
 * ..yes, I use it because then I can shout: "ERF SHAKUUUUUUUUUUR" over vent at my mates!  Thomas   So   Dutch  18:28, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone playing a PvE hammer war is/should-be running this or a close variant.--Ikimono  "...And my axe!" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 20:38, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * If hammers are buffed in PvE you shall probably see a lot of these Tyrael [[Image:Life Sheath.jpg|19px]]  Undead!  21:49, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * except that would require a skill update. well all know how often that happens 207.67.40.194 20:59, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Heroes
Ok, I need to point out a few things with heroes and this build, and get some feedback if possible.
 * 1) I have been testing Pulverizing Smash, and heroes don't seem to use it on KD'd enemies. They just kind of use it randomly.
 * 2) Heroes only use Flail when their target is KD'd. Now, that would be nice if this were a KD sin build or if the hero actually used Pulverizing correctly; however, they just don't. So, flail is borderline pointless. Heroes need another IAS.
 * 3) Heroes rarely use enraging charge to cancel-stance flail...so they'll get stuck with flail on and then take forever to catch up.
 * 4) Heroes take forever to reach called targets with this build, especially if you call a midline target (like a monk). Heroes don't use Enraging Charge to run to targets; however, they will use it to gain adren. They need something to get them there faster (like Death's Charge).

So, basically, I think this build should either lose the hero tag or we should try to address those problems. Here's a build that I have used on my hero at times, and it seems to work better with the AI:

Death's charge helps the hero get to the called target basically as soon as you call. The first optional could be Crushing Blow for DW (not sure if heroes use it correctly), another hammer attack, or FGJ!. The second optional would need to be an IAS, but I don't know of one that heroes use well with a hammer.

So...what do you think? Karate  Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:39, 19 January 2010
 * Not really thought about the rest but I take Death Charge as a staple skill for most, if not all melee builds I can. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 21:58, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ heroes definitely need it for this. The problem is that I can't find an IAS that works for this. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">22:01, 19 January 2010
 * I found Pulverizing Smash was used correctly, but that could just be Jora's pr0 skillz. Would Death's Charge not be used more for it's healing than a go-to-enemy-now skill by the hero AI? Oh and Distracting Blow is ftw. LessQQmorePewPew 22:09, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * The hero AI all work the same with their equipped weapons, so it doesn't matter which warrior hero you're using, they should all be the same. And I can't seem to get my heroes to replicate that. Can you prove it somehow?
 * And Death's charge isn't for healing. You only invest like 3 atts into shadow for it. It's just to shadow step + ES. And distracting blow is good, but heroes don't use it well with hammers for some reason. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">22:21, 19 January 2010
 * Yeah, I know the AI is the same, I was just joking around, because Jora is awesome. :D Well, I only have my experience. I had no other source of DW in the team, and watching Jora, she followed up Erf Shakurr with Pulverizing Smash whenever I cared to look. Maybe I was just looking at convienient times?
 * And I know it's not meant to be used for healing, but will the hero? :P LessQQmorePewPew  22:32, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, heroes are surprisingly good with Death's Charge, as long as you're calling targets (actually, even w/o calling. They use it to step to a mob even at full health). And try opening the hero menu when you're using it to see if Jora is using Pulverizing after a KD. I just can't seem to get my heroes to do it w/o microing. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">22:40, 19 January 2010
 * Just going to test, be a couple of minutes. LessQQmorePewPew  22:44, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, Pulverizing Smash was only used on KD'd enemies, wasn't used even if it was her only skill avalible.
 * Additionally, she did use it on foes that were KD by another ally, e.g. Meteor Shower. :) LessQQmorePewPew  22:53, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, ok then. If only flail worked, this would be viable for heroes :/ <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">22:54, 19 January 2010
 * The best thing available now is Tiger Stance and Frenzy for the brave n' crazy. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 23:18, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Heroes know how to cancel frenzy now, which is nice, but in PvE HM you can really fuck your warrior with it. Tiger has a terrible recharge.....so... <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">23:25, 19 January 2010

why are you using earth shaker on a hero?-- Relyk  talk  23:27, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ that's basically my point. This has a hero tag. It probably shouldn't. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">23:38, 19 January 2010
 * I've been using the hero variant on Jora for a while now, it just doesn't work. She only use ES randomly, flail now and then and I have not noticed a pattern in EC usage.217.9.223.19 19:05, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

New Animation
Manly! -- <font face="Papyrus" color="black">tÜrae£xy 14:44, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very --J0™ 15:06, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Truth. Chill728 16:50, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Major Rune in Tactics Variant
I can't see any justification for the major rune in the tactics variant. --Supernick530 22:37, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * In fact, I'm just going change it to a minor rune. --Supernick530 22:39, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4e from fear me, and with ttl it's not like you can't afford it for the extra duration/crit -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 19:21, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * A major Hammer Mastery rune has no effect on "Fear Me!". I'm removing the major Hammer Mastery rune since there is no reason for it. --War Pig5 08:51, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * pretty bad variant when pve skills are so much better-- Relyk  talk  20:40, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meh. The problem is this build can only really use instant cast 5e skills and attack skills. Asura Scan if things are dying slow, Air Sup, BUH, Drunken Master, IAU, YAAW + yeti smash, and IatS would all be good, but none of them are on the main bar. SY is kind of a weak choice when you realize it takes adren away from and is redundant with earth shaker. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 03:43, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

ffs zyke, renewing smash is too imba to ignore for any pve hammer build. don't believe me? just use it. update, leave alone.74.61.39.33 15:15, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * removed "By Urals Hammer!" variant for obvious reasons. Alcahmahol 04:04, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Suggest
[build prof=W/? str=12+1 ham=12+1+1][Earth Shaker][Low Blow][Mighty Blow][Yeti Smash][Crushing Blow][Flail][Enraging Charge][Optional][/build] More KD, fine spike dmg. Novo Vll--91.79.90.49 15:02, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * PvE without FGJ, whirlwind attack, or that aoe non elite hammer skill? [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  18:24, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you blind or what? Check original build. Also empty slot for you. Novo Vll--85.141.205.194 20:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not really more KD unless you aren't bringing adrenaline boosters and chaining Earth Shakers with the current build for some reason. Mighty Blow is inferior to Body Blow in this case, which would allow you to compress the bar by dropping Crushing Blow for more AoE attacks/PvE skills. --  Toraen   talk  21:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * FGJ needs mainbar tbh-- Relyk 22:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Krschkr's vote
I feel you're underrating the build a bit:
 * 1) The buildup phase isn't long. You use enraging+crude swing and your adrenaline is full against 5+ foes. If you take FGJ, you don't even have to lead with Crude Swing and you only need a single foe.
 * 2) Earth Shaker failing is easily prevented by either choosing a non-blocking target or taking Asuran Scan (same as any other physical).
 * 3) Yeti Smash is good (actually hits for AoE damage compared to ES) but is a conditional knockdown rather than unconditional. Usually easy to meet, but it has flaws too. Particularly...
 * 4) Yeti drains all your adrenaline, making chain knockdowns tighter to pull off. The advantage of ES is that you can alternate crude swing and whirlwind attack to build adrenaline for as long as you're surrounded, and thus shut down groups completely without the need of any other shutdown in the team. Builds with Yeti can accomplish this, but have tighter window to do so (offset a bit by lower adrenaline cost).
 * 5) If you take Whirlwind and Yeti in the same build, you have to delay your first Yeti Smash (and possibly subsequent ones) so as to not waste Whirlwind's adrenaline, meaning you don't get to the KDs as fast. If you don't take WWA+Yeti at the same time, the AoE damage of Yeti builds is pretty much the same as an ES build.

I find the two options pretty comparable, especially since Yeti lets you use those other elites, as you mention.

I don't think this should actually have SY mainbar though (I'd pick AS or IAU over it here), since it isn't really necessary if you're playing the build correctly (and will make the main job of the build more difficult if one tries to maintain it). Frenzy is also a better IAS, if the player is prepared (ie. has strong prot heroes). I'm not sure why Death's Charge isn't listed as an option at all. Cutting out run time seems like it makes maintaining a pre-ball much easier.

This would probably be my preferred mainbar. You could delay Frenzy until after ES. If you're a coward :P -Toraen (talk) 13:56, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You're right, the buildup isn't actually that long taking FGJ into consideration, until that skill runs out and renders you noticeably slower than with yeti smash. For compensation of the energy cost of frenzy and asuran scan auspicious blow can (and has) to be taken. Yeti draining the adrenaline isn't that much of an issue, and doesn't really make it hard to chain knockdowns fueling with renewing smash or crude swing. Taking whirlwind attack and yeti smash into the same build doesn't seem useful to me. Of course one would end up with a third AoE attack, but at the cost of making the knockdown abilities worse. So we actually end up with pretty even builds, except that a dwarven stability yeti smasher also interrupts foes with crude swing and has +40 armor instead of receiving twice the damage. :D


 * Without a strength ias you can pick to the limit for better adrenaline gain at the beginning and in the middle of combat, at the cost of losing your ims and a minor base damage boost from strength. Req. zealous hammer.


 * Without frenzy, on the other hand, there's almost enough energy for renewing smash using a zealous hammer. --Krschkr (talk) 15:46, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems like we have an agreement. Also would you mind writing up the enduring hammer? Doesn't look like we have it. -Toraen (talk) 18:52, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I have this template I could add to the build namespace, but someone will have to reduce the frenziness of it a bit... --Krschkr (talk) 20:26, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well there's some options but they've all got downsides. Help me pick the least annoying one! -Toraen (talk) 05:43, 27 August 2018 (UTC)