Archive talk:Team - RoJ VS Farm

wheres the hex?-- Christmas Relyk  22:34, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * Optional slots... &rarr; J.J.  berks   (contrib)  22:34, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * The build thats shown should work without any of the variants--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  22:39, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * the minibars or real builds? &rarr; J.J.  berks   (contrib)  22:42, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Are people actually running this? the range isn't nearly large enough for VS farming. 24.6.122.112 22:43, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * ummm... you know slaver's exile? thats whereu farm, and u get from chest. &rarr; J.J.   berks   (contrib)  22:44, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * wtf are you talking about? i know what a VS farm is. 24.6.122.112 22:47, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ill finish in the morning. &rarr; J.J.  berks   (contrib)  22:58, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * Adjacent is probably good enough, might take a few rojs to finish everyone off tho--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  00:45, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Similar to this [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  22:32, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * This has a specific use. &rarr; J.J.  berks   (contrib)  22:39, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * A general build is pretty useless--[[Image:Relyk chtistmas2.jpg|20px]] Christmas Relyk  23:14, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Guessing Mo/Me w/16 smiting works as well as Me/Mo?--Golden Star 20:01, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Fast casting is always nice =/... but should i change back to Mo/me? &rarr; J.J.  berks   (contrib)  20:03, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not saying you should change, just thinking that this would be nioce if monks could play as cryer as well, since more people have monks than mesmers.--Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]Star 20:05, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * nah ur right and more damage makes run go quicker even without fast casting... &rarr; J.J.  berks   (contrib)  20:09, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * aww ppl still vs farm even after the sf nerf (hoping they would give up so that i can sell mine for tons of cash to buy new tormented weaopns, cause im getting bored of my req 10 black caster voltaic spear) [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  20:11, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * just got a Q9 1 a week ago they sell for like 350k. &rarr; J.J.  berks   (contrib)  20:13, 21 January 2009 (EST)

CoP won't work without a mesmer hex, read the description...Scourge Healing won't cut it nor will Ice Spikes from the Ice Imps. 98.125.51.40 21:24, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Scourge Healing is pretty decent here for using on enemy Monks, Dervishes, and Necromancers. Drain Enchantment is pretty good too. Also alot of decent BiPs are going Paragon secondary for things like Song of Power which gets abused due to the low cost of BiP. Lastly the Assassins don't use I Am Unstoppable anymore, they take alcohol and throw in Heart of Shadow or Feigned Neutrality. While Mesmers have Fast Casting it's generally better to go Mo/Me primary to get the most out of RoJ which is far more powerful here than Cry of Pain. Normally we have one normal Cryer for the hexes and with Echo and the RoJs take Arcane Mimicry to copy Echo from him. Selket Shadowdancer 06:51, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * EBSoH only works on non-armor ignoring damage; Holy ignores armor. Maybe sub that and an EVAS for Ether Nightmare? - [[Image:GenericWikier1.jpg|19px]] <font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black">Generic Wiki-er  21:41, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Mind Rack just for cover hex so u can got off CoP, thats what i put. &rarr;<small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Felix Titling;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:gold;background-color:black;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> J.J.  berks   (contrib)  22:38, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Might make a note at rank 8 and above delver dark escape can be permanently maintained, so you could drop dash for death's charge or some other self preservation skill for the run--<font color=#C68E17>Golden <font color=#C68E17>Star 22:39, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Also, maybe switch bip to 1hp and replace SoLS with masochism for infinite energy as well as bip on everyone in party for whole run?--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 22:41, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Bip the permasin so he doesnt have nrgz problems?--<font color=#585858>Relyk <font color=#66CCFF>_||_ <font color=#333300> I hammers u! 23:02, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Update
I have updated these bars bit. Team composition is now more precise, removed various skill mistakes like tripple Ice Imp added BUH! on every Monk because it really adds to your damage output, went on EVaS frenzy those things help. Currently concerned about Monk's energy Auspicious Incantation would be prefect but I have no idea how to fit it inwithout losing outreally good skills. Ay more suggestions are welcome ofc. --217.44.68.161 05:51, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * Drain Enchantment, Energy Tap, Ether Signet, Want Not Waste Not (or whatever it''s called). There's loads of energy management for the Monk, especially if your BiP doesn't suck. Selket Shadowdancer 06:54, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * Stop being bad with the HB monk, seeds are terrible in VSF because the only thing that's going to trigger the seeds often enough are the earth nukes(which your party should be smart enough to kite out of, if they don't, please ragequit and find another that doesn't suck as badly), and orison has a decent heal with HB and decent recharge to warrant its use over Hwhisper.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  07:23, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * I would advise you to stop being bad yourself first but thanks for showing that you have never ever done VSF and again are theorycrafting on blank piece of paper.
 * Thommis has very interesting skill called Hundred Blades which would happily go through Shadow Form triggering Healing Seed very often allowing you to stop caring about your tank's life entirely.
 * HWhisper I dont care, kept it because you should easily afford to stay in mid range but with HP and HO such healspam may really be too much. --217.44.68.161 08:19, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * WOW, I have monked so many times and I never needed heal seed, stop being bad and bring a skill that actually helps the rest of your party, if you want me to prove it to you, by all means pm Pika Fan, and I show you how it's done properly.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  09:28, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * You don't really need Healing Seed though, it's unnesscary if you just prot the runner like you should be doing so he avoids Death Nova spikes. I'd rather have hex removal on the bar to be honest. Also the Cryers could really do with Mantra of Resolve so that they don't have a chance of being interrupted. Any energy loss is negated by the fact that you have a competent BiP in the party. Also as mentiond earlier IAS is just not used by most permas anymore, we tend to take alcohol and another self heal instead for a more reliable run. You can also take a caster weapon and an Air Magic offhand to squeeze a little more energy out of the runner. I normally run with a caster weapon of enchanting and an Air offhand with "Live For Today" inscription giving me 71 energy to complete the run easily with a BiP at the start and end. Also I find Rit/R FS tend to be pretty good as they can use Ancestors Rage and Splinter Weapon on the Perma or EVaS's. Aswell as being able to bring Vital Weapon to throw on the Perma before he runs and Soul Twisting for quicker laying down of Frozen Soil should someone die. The problem with this particular build is that there's so many ways it can be done it would be better made as a guide that as just a direct team build because there is so many ways to accomplish this farm and while this is a decent team build there's so much more that could be added. Selket Shadowdancer 09:38, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * Only ned soa to counter nova spike, sin should be using dark escape anyways--Relyk 11:18, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * You can't have Dark Escape up all the time like you used to. Because of the shortened recharge of Shadow Form it throws it all out of synch. Selket Shadowdancer 11:42, 5 February 2009 (EST)

Done a full write-up, moved back into testing.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  11:28, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * Minibars need to match the main bars in the build. Selket Shadowdancer 12:00, 5 February 2009 (EST)

Rt/R FS variant
[build prof=Rt/R Spawning=12+1 Channeling=12+1+1 Wilderness=3][Ghostly Haste][Spirit Rift][Clamor of Souls][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Splinter Weapon][Frozen Soil][Gaze of Fury][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

I tried this for a few runs and it works wonders if your team doesn't suck. Selket Shadowdancer 11:58, 5 February 2009 (EST)

[build prof=Rt/R Spawning=7+1 Communing=12+3+1 Wilderness=8 BeastMastery=8][Weapon of Quickening][Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom][Mindbender][Gaze of Fury][Edge of Extinction][Frozen Soil][Serpent's Quickness][Flesh of My Flesh][/build] How about WoQ on the Roj's? 173.48.213.177 20:43, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

WTB: Hexes
Only 1 person with hexes? PS. Mini bars need an update ;p. - 16:18, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * You spike 1 foe at a time. so the one that has hexes is a caller. &rarr;<font size=3 style="font-variant:big-caps;font-family:Mufferaw;6px"> BERKS <font size=1 style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;6px;">deedle...   dum... |undefined 23:44, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * It's generally a good idea to cover your primary hex at least. Also if your called dies you have no backup caller which is generally bad. Sure you can go with the PvX mentality of "well they shouldn't fail so badly" blah, blah, but would you rather have it and not need it? Or need it and not have it? Selket Shadowdancer 07:00, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * I agree with above comment you never know what can happen.
 * I think you should drop one of Smite Hexes and add another mind wrack or add it to BiP necro instead of Strip Enchant because with 1hp he should better stay away from that wall. --Anonimous. D: 07:09, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * THAT'S what I'm talking about ^^ -[[Image:KamisSig.png]] 09:52, 6 February 2009 (EST)

pplz
Please vote this great and move it to meta builds pl0x. <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan 13:34, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Question: What is Arcane Mimicry for?  More RoJ? [[Image:Benjammn311Sig5.png]] 19:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh no, it's to copy shadowform so nothing can kill them.[[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]]<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">uɐɟ <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">ɐʞıd 20:16, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Does RoJ way farming work in FoW/UW, with maybe a lil different setup? Haven't played so dunno if it's used alrdy lol. Natsopaani 09:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey natso, been a while, mercy here :p Actually, yes, you can farm UW with a RoJ monk like one of those (even squeeze in the UWSC groups, although you will have to change some stuff). Otherwise, I think it should be more or less viable if the assassin manages to ball up the foes, which is quite possible in UW/FoW. I don't know how fast that could be though.

BIP
Changed it, no one actualy puts that ona bip cos they just die. 217.42.219.28 16:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You only die if you're bad.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 16:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * not realy, for you to cast on them they can cast on you, and this build is gonna be run by people that aren't awesome so it should cater for as much people as possible. 217.42.219.28 18:04, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So you're there for what? A second? Chances are they won't change targets. Also, I herd regular armor sets are gud. Just swap like two pieces and go cast, then put them back on.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * AoE spells :< --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:28, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You fail epically hard if you run right into AoE.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:14, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You don't run into them, of course >.>"" They get cast every now and then, yknow. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  10:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

BiP and FS
Something should be done about these two. an FS rit with WoQ would do better than a ranger and the BiP has soo many optional slots. What about having the BiP also EoE and FS, then add a Me/Rt that holds GoF, fast casts WoQ, and echos cry. Chaosgrimm 23:53, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * consume soul on the FS works well aswell. Howe304 17:43, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Perma Sf
I just tried running this the first time. Sometimes I succeeded withouth alcohol and sometimes I died, didn't do anything different in the two different cases. Am I that bad a runner or does this run rely heavily on luck? 80.56.148.251 23:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We talking about practice--Relyk 03:02, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, it's kinda hard and spawn-dependent. Too bad the entire build revolves around a good SF.  X.X  [[Image:Benjammn311Sig5.png]] 17:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No actually it's great because it gives hope to that lesser part of gw population that play assassin as a main, and after struggling for 2 years finding groups to do well everything, it is kinda nice that I can easily find a party... And also if it depended on terra-tank or invinci monk or some other tank it would be too much overfarmed, as it is much easier to run a 600/terra/55/defy pain warr then it is to run a perma.89.201.208.199 19:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wat.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

fragility?
How about fragility for mesmer hex, it triggers with every new wave of burning, so it adds quite some damage
 * No. it triggers when burning is applied the first time and when it ends. At most it would add 16 damage. Though it's short recharge makes it viable.-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 19:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've found it does trigger on every wave.. and also its some extra damage compared to mind wrack. Although it has a slightly shorter duration.. 92.239.41.229 13:33, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * some points in the line and fragility will boost the dmg output, making a good hex for this buildSharpened Daggers aka RIP 15:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced
Why is this in general? it even has farm in title. Bad soles 04:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

N/P BiP
i think it'd be much more better with There's nothing to fear+fall back+aria of zeal.. here's an example : [build prof=N/P Blood=10+1+3 soul=4+3 command=8 motivation=10][Blood is power]["There's nothing to fear!"][Fall back!][Aria of Zeal][ballad of restoration][aria of restoration][signet of synergy][resurrection signet][/build]

u can lighen the pressure on HB this way too. Sharpened Daggers aka RIP 15:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good teams just take an R/N and another RoJ instead of being terrible. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, for pugs, the biggest problem is arcane conundrum, etc. People get hexed often. You could argue that good teams don't, but they do. The HB has the greatest chance of being hexed. The N/P build really doesn't provide much additional energy, furthermore, the RoJs don't need more than +10 regen (33 energy per 10 seconds. Roj uses 36 in 10 seconds provided IF you can click skills as soon as they recharge, in which case you will probably be banned for botting). The extra armor provided by TNtF really isn't necessary if the RoJs are all using vs.elemental armor mods (granting them +25 armor). The greatest problem with warders is when they use earthquake, in which case Fall Back or Aria of Restoration or TNtF won't help. Otherwise, you can just move out of the AoE and take almost no damage. Also, as discussed, you need mindbender because BiP'ing 6 party members takes 10.5 seconds, leaving you no time at all to use other skills (because BiP only lasts 12 seconds with a 20%ench mod). The Ritualist has support heals anyways. But I don't understand the R/N comment.. shouldn't it be N/R for greater BiP? you really don't need a longer lasting FS.. and if you die, or the perma, or the HB, who will remove FS? Also, who will consume the spirit that sometimes spawns right behind where the BiP stands? You need consume soul, that's a given, it prevents so many BiP deaths (gaze of fury is not an option because of the 2 second cast time). Also 1 RoJ really won't make that much of a difference since i've done runs in under 3 minutes with 4 RoJs. The biggest difference is made by observing how agro works, proper target selection, consume soul to keep your BiP alive from those nasty spirits (also to pick off minions so RoJ is not wasted), hex removal on the BiP to remove the numerous hexes (especially arcane conundrum), and enchantment removal to speed up the killing of defenders and zealots at the end (because otherwise it takes 3/4 uses of RoJ to kill them). Gesun Dheit 01:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * in good teams, no one should die--Relyk 01:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Even in good teams there's always a slight chance. Regardless, if a spirit spawns behind where the BiP stands then he WILL die. It's really that simple. It happens 1 out of every 4/5 runs. That IS worth it. unless ofcourse you don't mind failing 20% of your runs cuz of a dead BiP. Gesun Dheit 01:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * more rojs is faster, just dont waste them all on the same target. you dont even need bip if u do it right anyways, just makes it easier on pug groups--Relyk 02:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just casting 3 RoJs takes 60 energy... Assuming you are wielding a staff (no armor set, which isnt recommended, just in case), you can get 3 of them off. You can't cry tho, you can't use ebon sin/other skills, none of that.. cuz that would just be too costly. You could bring Auspicious for an extra 18 energy which really won't offset things that much.. ever RoJ with a dead BiP? Do you know how much 2/3 zealots can heal for? Add 1 or 2 defenders in the mix? Maybe some modniir Priests? That cry of pain actually heals the enemies with spirit bond on them? Yes, you can kill most of the enemies with a single volley of RoJ but not all of them, and then you gotta wait for your energy to regen. That takes forever. You still need a FS regardless or else you will be there for an extra 2 minutes (for example if the marksmen in the back rez thommis and he runs away). etc etc etc. You don't like to prepare for the 'just in cases'?.. so you'd rather fail some runs and save 10 seconds on each other? That's just utterly counter-productive. The trade-off is simply not worth it. You can't Roj and FS on one character because then you don't have arcane echo, cry of pain or mimicry. You could run cryer/FS but mesmers just suck at cryway. Cryway is run with E/Me for extra energy because it takes 45+ energy every 10 seconds, way more than even +10 energy regen can provide. R/Me might work with 12 points in expertise or more since they only have +3 energy regen. Still, all of this does not mitigate the fact that you cannot predict where the spirits will spawn. It also does not address the fact that you cannot kill all of the enemies in a single volley and will have to wait for your energy to regen. Some of them like the summoners, zealots, marksmen and even priests and defenders will even hang out in the back until most of the others are dead (including minions). Anyways, if you can show me 3 consecutive videos of runs in under 3 minutes with 5 RoJs instead of 4, then I will believe you. Otherwise I will just consider this as a non-factual opinion. BTW this used to be done cryway in about 3 minutes with no BiP but that is because CoP has an 'in the area' radius and can affect enemies in the backline, whereas RoJ cannot. Drain enchantment was required to remove spirit bond. Gesun Dheit 02:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

the runner
I added a video demonstration. the link is at the bottom of the perma's "usage" 23:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Archive
Should this be archived now that AI knows to run from RoJ (and the small nerf to CoP)? <font color="#4F94CD"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#9400D3">Sysop   11:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No. Just bring Deep Freeze or something like people used to. Selket Shadowdancer 11:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Something like this could work:

[build prof=Me/E Fastcasting=12+1 Illusion=12+1+3][Signet of Illusions][Auspicious Incantation][Deep Freeze][Arcane Mimicry][Arcane Echo][Mind Wrack][Cry of Pain][Air of Superiority][/build]

Selket Shadowdancer 11:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Except you can't run a bunch of those or CoP's degen becomes pointless. Just run FoC, tbch. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You only run one as a replacement to one of the RoJ's. Selket Shadowdancer 17:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is true, but the only thing it affects is the main group that agros around the perma. IMO the perma does not need every single skill and can bring Grasping Earth. Or as you stated, an E/Me with Deep Freeze to snare the main group. After the main group is dead though, single enemies will not run from RoJ, only enemies that are bunched up will scatter from AoE. Several other possibilities are to drop the ranger completely and bring a E/Rt with snares and a spirit of pain (to cast right behind where the necro stands, so it attacks any spirit that may spawn there until you can gaze it). and give the BiP frozen soil. That is all hypothetical though. FoC however is not an alternative because it does really poor damage (somewhere around 60% of what the original cryway build used to do and only about 50% of what RoJ/cry does). Teams need to become alot more balanced. 1 man could run VoR/CoP/ether nightmare/wandering eye/clumsiness, 1 or 2 could run RoJ, 1 could snare, 1 could FoC, etc.. needs major work now though. Gesun Dheit 19:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've also noticed Jjberks makes an edit to the BiP build and added Deep Freeze. This is not an alternative as the BiP will die if he approaches the wall. For the sake of not causing a war about this, since the build needs work anyways I will refrain from making a revert, but this is unacceptable to carry on the BiP. Gesun Dheit 19:38, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you do this run properly you wait for the Perma to agro them all up then when he has them in his command, u attack, lots of players tend to jump to early causing Bip or other players to die. if th agro is set in place ur good to go. &rarr;<font size=3 style="font-variant:big-caps;font-family:Mufferaw;6px"> BERKS <font size=1 style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;6px;">deedle...   dum... |undefined 00:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're good to go for what? a 1 HP BiP Deep Freeze? Don't think so. You're better off putting it on the ritualist and putting FS on the BiP :\ 1 HP should never go near the wall... period.. until all contaminators, warders and dreamers are dead. Gesun Dheit 02:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Something to think about

 * Bloodsong can be cast right behind where the BiP stands so it attacks any spirit that spawns there immediately, hopefully giving you enough time to gaze the enemy spirit before it kills the BiP.


 * That might work as well. The first build is probably better though.


 * Keep your BiP out of harm's way.


 * Just an idea, used to run one of these in the old cryway build. RoJ is just fine though.

Comments
Just some random ideas. Quite honestly, I haven't VSF'd since the update and I don't really feel like testing all of this stuff just now. Maybe later. Gesun Dheit 07:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking along the same lines for an optional.

Is actually reasonably often run now, i got a 6 min run including run to slavers and chest open without cons 88.106.33.72 17:53, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

FS's out there
Gaze is a pos skill, bring rupture and consume and be less suck. Thank you. 76.21.74.221 22:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed
Masochism variant on bip. Masochism is not required since you gain energy from Soul Reaping and like Awaken the Blood it is another enchantment with a long duration.

thats the old masochism--83.81.47.239 17:13, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please do not edit archived builds. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 17:19, January 11, 2010 (UTC)