Archive talk:P/any Motivation Support

Discuss. — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 13:35, 24 November 2007 (CET)

Should be motivation shield?  Shen (contribs) 14:00, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Yes. Thanks. — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 01:54, 25 November 2007 (CET)

Zulu's vote
LoD is terrible as a stand skill in GvG because of the cast time. Heal Party... I won't even go there. You can't really compare para to monk skills either. — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 13:52, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * I know they're both bad, I'm saying Song of Restoration is worse. And if you yourself said you can't compare Paragon skills to Monk skills, why are you dedicating your elite to a mediocre heal? In my opinion Song of Purification would be better. Zulu Inuoe 20:52, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Because people run RC in GvG now. And if you don't run a fragile emo flagger or a fragile HB flagger, then you're stuck with next to no party heals. A stand Heal Party or LoD is way too easily countered. SoP is also bad because spamming a 2 second skill at the stand is bad. It's also unreliable and clunky. So tell me how you're going to run partywide heals without compromising the versatility and efficiency of your team? — Tycn (talk *pvxcontribs ) 01:52, 25 November 2007 (CET)

zulu's vote does need to be removed. this is a midline spot that provides offense and healing, almost no one runs three monks in a gvg now unless one of them is a flagger.Alpha fireborn 02:11, 25 November 2007 (CET)

Needz watch yourself imo, para's without it fail. - Unexist  17:06, 28 November 2007 (CET)


 * Look at variants imo Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 17:07, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * Main bar. Its just needed, gfte needs to be in variants cuz the pressure isn't that great anymore since nerf. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]Unexist  17:08, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * gfte is for with vicious Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 17:09, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * GFtE mainly so your secondary isn't limited and can go /Me or whatever if you want, also you hardly have the attribute points for WY to make that big a difference anyway. — Tycn (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 07:53, 29 November 2007 (CET)
 * Rawr runs it. Drop leadership to 10, spear mastery to 10, tactics to 8 or something. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  11:45, 1 December 2007 (CET)
 * That would be 10-10-10-5, which is an awkward distribution. It's in variants anyway. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 12:12, 1 December 2007 (CET)
 * Leadership only needs to be 10 anyway. I'm changing it. Zuranthium 21:35, 4 December 2007 (CET)

Aren't the runes a little overkill? I would imagine it's ok to have 13 spear mastery on a motivation paragon... Smooths 03:12, 6 December 2007 (CET)

Zuranthium's changes
just terrible. Rune suicide, crappy attribute distribution. I'd personally keep Spear of Lightning in the main bar, because this Paragon's power comes from having enough energy to spam it. <font color="Black"> Shen (contribs) 23:13, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Dual Majors on a Paragon is pretty standard. Even with the Cracked Armor on from Aggressive Refrain, you should still have +5 armor from your weapon and +16 armor and +30 Health from the Shield, giving you 81 Armor and 530 Health as a midliner. Spear of Lightning doesn't need to be in the main bar at all. Some people prefer Harrier's Toss, some people prefer Wild Throw. Zuranthium 23:19, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Dual Majors suck on a Para. Even if they aren't targeted often, it's unnecessary. [[Image:Shogunshen_Sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black"> Shen (contribs) 23:24, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Completely incorrect. A Paragon's armor and positional advantage is the exact reason why you can afford to give them Major runes and squeak out a bit more performance from the character. Paragons rarely die unless there is a team wipe, at which point that extra health you would have had from not taking the Dual Majors doesn't matter. Zuranthium 23:35, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Eh, I can see your argument. Guess it's just my personal preference then. [[Image:Shogunshen_Sig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Black"> Shen (contribs) 23:38, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Actualy I am urged just to write "DP?" but here it goes: I could understand if someone would run 1(one) major rune on a para in GvG, but 2 is just suicide. Craced Armor means you are as squishy as a Monk, Ele, Mesmer. They die fast enough evenwithout 2 major runes. Second of all, you do have a hardrezz and group heals with that build and if you die your group would be at a hughe loss - more than it gains from the marginal damage and healing gained that way. I am going to revert the changes, as running major runes (one alone, two even more) is NOT standardt in GvG for any class. Grobilikesmudkips 23:46, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * "Cracked Armor means you are as squishy as a Monk, Ele, Mesmer". No, it doesn't. A Paragon with Cracked Armor has significantly more Armor than a caster. Zuranthium 00:22, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * u r wrong. 68.35.91.2 00:23, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * lulz Grob. 68.35.91.2 00:24, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Zuranthium you may want to read this: PvXwiki:Only_revert_once. I ask you kindly to take back your re-revert as I am of the opinion that we can discuss what is better for this build on the discussion page without having an admin holding our hands and wiping our asses. If a general consensus can be found to wich I disagree - I will stfu and have you have your way, but not like this. And if "significantly more" is 8 more armor, then we use this one word diffrently but to me significantly would be 20+++. Grobilikesmudkips 00:37, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * A Paragon has 21 more armor than a caster. Casters can not always sit in a weapon + shield set, whereas a Paragon always will be. Zuranthium 01:00, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Dual majors = superior = bad.One major are fine tho. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  10:15, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Vote on Runes & Attribute Distribution

 * Suggestion A:
 * Spear: 11+1+2
 * Motivation: 10+2
 * Leadership: 9+1
 * Command: 4


 * Sugestion B:
 * Spear: 10+1
 * Motivation: 10+1+1
 * Leadership: 11+1
 * Command: 1

Vote for Suggestion A

 * Of course I vote for this one. Good to see that you did too. No take-backs! :-P Zuranthium 00:59, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Your Vote here.

Vote for Suggestion B

 * (reasons given above)Grobilikesmudkips 00:45, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Your Vote here.

Neutral / Other

 * Your vote here.

Good guilds that I know have always run with the Dual Majors (or a Superior) to increase the Paragon's power. Since the nerf to adding Cracked Armor to Aggressive Refrain, that still really hasn't changed. Zuranthium 00:59, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * If leet guilds can pull of a stunt or not should not be the deciding factor, the same applies to squishy memsers being to lazy switching their defensive set in when seeing 2 warriors, and 2-3 midliners turning towards them = paragon & craked armor -> squishy. Grobilikesmudkips 01:09, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * "If a good guild can do it or not shouldn't be the deciding factor"...yes it should. A build should be looked at in the form that it is considered to be the most effective amongst people who play it best. BTW, you can't weapon swap while KDed. Zuranthium 01:26, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * You can see all knockdowns "coming" your way in GvG exept Gale, wich I havent seen in ages. Well I said what I have to say and to me there is no reason why to elaborate the same point over and over again. (: Grobilikesmudkips 01:34, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Haven't seen Gale in ages??? LMAO. Then of course there is Shock and Hammer attacks while casting...but whatever. I don't even care anymore; it's not worth talking about. I'll only say this - leaving the build as it is now is sub-optimal (Rapta putting Spear of Lightning as main bar, LMAO) and any good team is almost surely not going to run this version that is on PvX. Zuranthium 02:41, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * I honestly havent seen Gale in ages in GvG! How about we change the skillbar that (I honestly prefared yours to what is up now) you used and leave the attributes for a week and then see what happened with the votes? Grobilikesmudkips 02:50, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Gale is very common. Old bar was better. Like Har, but SoL is not very good except in rawrspike. Most importantly, Doji OWNNNNNNZ. 68.35.91.2 03:10, 7 December 2007 (CET)
 * Rawrspike uses Harrier's, not Spear of Lightning. This whole bar is Vicious Attack, Harrier's Toss, Go for the Eyes!, Watch Yourself!, Shields Up!, Song of Restoration, Ballad of Restoration, Aggressive Refrain. With Double Major Runes. Zuranthium 00:53, 8 December 2007 (CET)
 * Harrier's and Spear of Lightning have diffrent uses imho. The first is bettar if you want to spike, the other one is more spammable i.e. bettar for preasure. Well lets take 3 Superior runes and frenzy because a guy in RA run that! ;) Grobilikesmudkips 01:08, 8 December 2007 (CET)
 * Gee, thanks for that. You might have noticed that we were specifically talking about RAWRSPIKE. Zuranthium 09:30, 11 December 2007 (CET)


 * Z is actually right. If you die as a Paragon, is just means you fail. They can also afford to run less health. --<font color="Black">Readem 02:48, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Gee thats not the dumbest thing I've heard. Because I die as a Paragon I am bad? Because I take my midline position and I do in fact kite but am spiked that's my fault? I make sure to remember that next time. (Mr Pink57 21:19, 26 March 2008 (EDT))

Proposed Build Changes
Mending Refrain should be there instead of Ballad of Restoration. A Mesmer interrupt should replace either Spear of Lightning or Harrier's Toss. Zuranthium 01:35, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Meh, no. Get Mrefrain. Drop gfte for wy. This is rawr's paragon, so drop either SoL/Harrier's. Not both. I would only run pspike para for MoD. --<font color="Black">Readem 19:31, 13 February 2008 (EST)