Archive talk:Team - 2 Man Necroway

General Stuff: I just edited some parts... Anti-nana protection is in facto nana... so its either anti-blabla or blabla-protection but not both

Won't having two MM-ish Necros take away from each other? Soul Bind will also be quite useless in a lot of PvE, too. ــмıкε нaшк  14:01, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * And if you want to get the most out of Mark of Pain and Barbs, Build:N/any Order of Undeath might work better. If you put Ebon Battle Standard of Honor on one of the two players, that's lotsa domages. ^^ ــмıкε  нaшк  14:04, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * No because the Discord MM has boneacle insignias and his minions would have a priority casting meaning that they will be equal and no because there is infact quite a bit of annoying healing and selfhealing present in PvE but we gunna give variants for areas w/o or with little of it. :3 -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  14:05, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Also OoU is good BUT it effects only your minions and JB and Discord are quite abit of a better option on a hero. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  14:06, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Bonelace insignia is Armor +15 (vs. Piercing damage)? ــмıкε  нaшк  14:11, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Meant to be bloodstained. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  17:39, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Currently
writing it up, don't EC me or I'll kill you :3  —  Sazzy Pooh 14:09, 28 Sep 2008 
 * ^ -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  14:10, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * You can always just copypasta if you get ECed, and use "Show Changes". ــмıкε  нaшк  14:11, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Dont you dare EC Sazzy or she kiel yah. =O -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  14:13, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * No, I noted that i'm editing it so everyone else shld back off till i finish :3 Or get their stuff overwritten :3  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]14:17, 28 Sep 2008 
 * :3 -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  14:19, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

4 Moar Inspirations
Build:Team - 3 Hero Discordway and Archive:Team - Sabway. Imo, get two copies of Aegis, so you can almost maintain it. Rotting Flesh and Suffering also sound helpful, tbh. ــмıкε нaшк  14:22, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Suffering, lulz. That's like party wide bleeding xP . You don't need two copies of aegis though. It will be up during the biggest part of the fight and the rest is running around the map finding the next mob. Don't forget you also have reckless haste to make them miss more.  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]14:51, 28 Sep 2008 
 * Party wide bleeding is strong, if you don't agree read all comments about pressuring on some build. God  box    15:06, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC)Heh, moar AoE degen is good. Tbh, though, I still don't like Soul Bind for PvE. Spoil Victor or another copy of Spiteful Spirit would probably work better. ــмıкε  нaшк  15:09, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * yh in HM SV is good and ull probably want some enchantment removal [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  15:12, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * didnt c that rip but moar wud b nice lots of enchants can b REALLY annoying [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  15:13, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * There used to be a second rip but it got replaced by ancestors rage at some point. And who cares about pressuring with suffering when you can take stuff like ether nightmare on the players. I was planning on putting EN on the players into some section I've yet to make (note it's a stub) after talking it over with Sorrow on what would be the best choices, as he did start it in the first place.  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]15:17, 28 Sep 2008 
 * Honestly, in PvE, when everything dies in seconds, regen is meh, if its your last option - take it, if not, dont bother. Aegis chains Mike, yeah sounnd helpful but on other hand, just look at it this way; you have aegis up for most time of battle, all other time you are running, do you think that having it on all the time would help or that you would spend more than 20 secs killing stuff with this? :3 -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  16:08, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If you're running that often, party-wide IMS ("Fall Back!" on an Imbagon <3) would be nice. :3 ــмıкε  нaшк  17:37, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Agreed. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  17:38, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Calling
all necros!-- Shadow 18:01, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * It's for Heroes. You only need to bring along a buddy. =P ــмıкε  нaшк  18:02, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * and pwn. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  18:04, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Hm...

 * Discord isn't really that good unless on a team with other Discorders.
 * Soul Bind is near worthless in PvE. Just pinging or sicking heroes on their healer (if any) does the job.
 * IV makes my penis hard.

--  Guild  of   Deals   18:10, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * IV would be nicer if it was armor ignoring tbh. It's a nice variant non the less though. Currently need to come up with something for areas with low body count too anyway. Will work on it more tomorrow tbh as I kind of got sick of doing so today. Discord is still nice extra damage though. Your help is appreciated non the less <3  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:18, 28 Sep 2008 
 * You could drop Xinrae's Weapon for IV. I wouldn't want my Heroes to waste their time casting a spell that only heals for 70 health when I'm about to die, tbh. ــмıкε  нaшк  18:33, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Nah, XW = win. Keeping what GoD said in mind, what do you think of this?

/ The Splinter SS

/ The Utility FoC

/ The IV Bomber

/ The Jagged Hybrid

/ The Restorer

/ The Healer Hybrid

The optional being rotten flesh/FFTD like stated on the page already.  —  Sazzy Pooh 18:39, 28 Sep 2008 
 * I have IV fetish so I say more IV. This is pretty much rickrolling. You should bring Patient on the healer hybrid (maybe over Aegis or SoA). Otherwise it's quite nice. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   18:46, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * IV on everything seems a bit overboard. I suggested patient spirit to sorrow myself, but he claimed that heroes have a hard time prioritizing WoH over PS. And it's not like there aren't enough (party) heals in there, so I'd personally let it be like that in the end. I'll change now anyway :3  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:56, 28 Sep 2008 
 * IV overloading is fun. Heroes are generally good with keeping Hexes on seperate people, so you can blow up mobs quick. One guy blows up, then it's just chain reaction. Heroes may be terrible with prioritizing WoH and Patient, but they have infinite energy and they both recharge in 3 secs. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]]  Guild  of   Deals   19:01, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Main problem would be that they use PS on you instead of WoH when you are about to die and getting healed too late. Anyway like I said, I don't think it's needed, there's 5 direct red bar skills as is, not counting all the party heals  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]19:04, 28 Sep 2008 
 * I honestly prefer armor ignoring and spammable damage of Discord over IV, I have explained why on my talk. :s Another thing, SB is a great way to get rid of Dervs, Destroers, Self Heal and any kind of dedicated healer, especially boss healers, might not be fair enough of a claim but when you think about it better it is. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  12:11, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * SB may be better in some areas but IV is generally better.....SV really good in HM [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  12:23, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * IV is AoE and is FoC really better than SV?? [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  12:24, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * IV yes, has an icy AoE after-kill damage, FoC also might not be better than SV but unfortuantely there are no blood magic specced characters in the team. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  12:26, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * split the attributes..i guess then theyd have to loose the resto but then they cud have sum more skills or have some off others so that they can have more healing/support or w/e [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  12:33, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Problem is that the only good thing in blood is SV and orders. Since orders are useless in this team, you'd have to take away the utility of the character to make it useful, making FoC a better choice in the team, though like you said, not a better skill. I think it's more important for the hero to keep its utility, no? You could possibly toy around with it so that you can have IV in stead of FoC, what do you think?  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]12:45, 29 Sep 2008 
 * I dont think that losing a resto would pay off. =/ But Im going to think of some kind of variant bar with SV incase theres a human monk/nec in the party. =] -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  12:45, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * yh good idea it would be better if the players WERE necros cause then theyd get energy [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  12:48, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * On other hand this is so versatile that anything would synch it. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  17:49, 29 September 2008 (EDT)


 * I think.... Discord > IV > SV > SS > FoC.

@ GoD, One Discord is fine. It's when that one Discord nec has to do the hexing/conditions on it's own that it becomes bad. Alota people seem to forget that most stuff in PvE has high armor - if you've personally played an IV nec, you'd see how bad it can be in some areas. Spoil Victor is decent when you have minions on the team. Like IV, it's pretty easy for heroes to use. The main thing I dislike about SV is that it's in Blood. SS is one skill that shouldn't be on a hero - it requires the user to know when and what target to use it on so that it wont be used wastefully. Definitely not hero material. And FoC.....it's just pure junk. Horrid recharge for PvE and a small range. You'd be better off putting Death Nova on a 2nd nec. I'm not sure what the main goal of the build is, but if you just want stuff dead, 4 Discords is the way to go. Give them each a copy of Shambling Horror and you got a massive durable meatshield that could take some heavy AoE and dish out heavy damage on it's own. Discord is a good skill that also happens to be hero-friendly. They already know what targets meet the reqs and it's used on recharge. And don't complain about a lack of AoE - Death magic has plenty of it. I honestly see no reason not to run it when you got 6 Nec heroes on the team. P A R A S I T I C 20:15, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * The page considerably changed since those comments were made, though :3 IV was taken out and put as a variant with a note saying it shldn't be used in hm. Discord came back into the game. FoC was only there so the necro didn't have to split his attribs too much and due to a lack of inspiration at the time to replace soul bind with. After redoing the SS and The FoC a little, I got a viable version of SV in there replacing the horrid FoC build. While heroes may not cast SS on the best suited target all the time, it has a reasonably low recharge anyway and it pretty much wins pve, even on a hero. If it's good enough for sabway, it's certainly good enough for this too imho. Pinging the right targets before engaging generally helps too. Worst case scenario you can micro SS, though imho it isn't really necessary in the end. While Discordway does sound appealing, I'm afraid there's already a version of that on here. (be it in trial, testing or vetted, can't remember). Because of that, making such a dramatical change to this build would be unnecessary and most likely counter productive. Oh, main goal is to steamroll everything in pve. You might say a variant of sabway, but worked out for an 8 man team with 2 humans.  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]20:40, 29 Sep 2008 


 * Well there's an H/H Discord team on here. There's also an H/H Sabway. I did a quick search for a 6hero PvE Discord team and there wasn't any (unless I missed it) so you might as well make this it. The majority that have tried both of those setups in an H/H team will agree that Discord is just more powerful. The strength of Discord is that it gets better with more Necros, which you have plenty of in this setup. Meeting it's conditions become easier and the result is 4 necs spitting out 100+ dmg on a 2 sec recharge. That's coming from one skill alone. Skills like Defile Defenses/Weaken Armor and anything used to bypass defenses can be dropped since a majority of your damage will be coming from a spell. You'll have much more skillspace to mess with. Another thing with SS compared to Discord is that Discord can't be wasted - once it's been used, you're guaranteed to get the high damage from it. The SS nec will be put in tons of situations where it's elite is almost useless. You could micro SS if you want, but that's basically saying "keep this target alive". You want is everything dead as soon as possible. SS needs a live target, adjacent enemies, and some time, in order for it to be useful as a damage elite. Discord is a great direct damage skill, something that's pretty rare for Necs. If you really wanna steamroll PvE, you're gonna wanna force the damage onto mobs rather than waiting for the damage to be done through conditional hexes. A friend and I use 3 Discords for DoA heroway speedruns and we get done super fast. And lastly, Keep in mind that Sab posted his builds before Discord was buffed. P A R A S I T I C 21:49, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Heroes
you sure these work with heroes?  That  Twin   Tom  12:51, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * It's meant for heroes :3 They do a pretty good job too. Anyway, I toyed around with your SV idea and tried to get it in there by juggling stuff around. Good, yes/no?  —  Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]13:06, 29 Sep 2008 
 * yh good enchantment removal for health gain too [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  15:06, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

on the subject of heroes, they don't use Xinrae's Weapon properly.  Ŀ¥ЅЅΔΝ ● <font color="#0099FF">55!  18:15, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * They spam it, and thats fair enough. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  18:16, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * So what? If they don't use it properly, then it is ghey. Use WoR for condition removal because GASPS ONLY MBAS X2 FOR TEH CONDI REMOVALZ! Condition spam areas say hai. 18:19, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh, and also, they at least use WoR correctly. XW is used gheyly. 18:19, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * From what i've heard they spam it like fuck, which is hardly gay. I don't think this many people wld be using it if it was really as bad as you people seem to think.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:21, 29 Sep 2008 
 * Oh can you calm down a bit, there is foul/infusec combo that gives you all condition removal you need, having wor condition removal is overkill. Dont worry, XW is being spammed, and provides steady life steal from foes and protection of the party, I know that it should be used just before the damage is taken but heroes use all skills in this way and in case of PvE it is not as important anyway! We have discussed it many times before, it is even in Sab's now, XW stays but I am going to add WoR to variants. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  18:24, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Saz, spamming is ghey. French tactic. And guy from my talk page, if you note the caps and bad spelling, you should be able to see that my comment was a joke. I just wanted to say that XW being used gheyly is a French move, so it should be scrapped from the build. 17:05, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I tried the XW version and the hero barely even used it. Its a nice skill in this build (theoretically better than WoR imo), but the skill fails due to bad AI. Though its weird that some players state that heroes spam the skill when i didn't see any spamming at all... Could it be a hero based issue (say Livia would use it more often than Olias?)? -- Arthas  [[Image:ArthasSignature.jpg|19px|I love this skill :D]]  Talk  01:58, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Player builds
I would like to see a recommended build for each profession to run with this build. IMO a warrior could run a D-slash+SY! spam build. Paragon could run Imbagon. Monk could be a Smiter's Boon healer. Assassin could use a Moebius Blossom build. Elementalist could be a SF spammer (Air Spiker in Destroyer areas). Some builds that work great with this build would be nice to see.

Looks interesting, good job. Going to try it out soon. Move from Trial to Untested? -- Arthas   Talk  04:37, 30 September 2008 (EDT)


 * Thanks and we gunna add that sub-section to the build, it is indeed very usefull for players. -- Sorrow 'Mc' Sorrowmancer  06:31, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Added some player builds. I currently do not know what to take yet on the necro and monk tbh. Ideas are welcome, as well as thoughts on the builds.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh 12:43, 30 Sep 2008 
 * When I run Sabway on my necro I usually take Spiteful Spirit because it's better used by players than heroes replace that hero with whatever I bloody well want to. WS spammer is probably good. Monks should probably do something similar by replacing one healer. Replace the prot hybrid so Prot Spirit can be used more efficiently. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 12:53, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Ye I've thought about playing one of the heroes builds and letting the hero play something else. You cld possibly play an AP Sin bomber too actually. Would you also care to explain to me how prot spirit would be used more efficiently?  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]12:59, 30 Sep 2008 
 * Because heroes prot at random, but as a human you can prot yourself and go tank, or prot a hero and flag him in when you come up against retardedly high damage bosses. You can micro that, but it's easier if it's on your bar. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 16:10, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Heroes generally put it on you when you start taking a certain amount of damage. Seeing it has a low recharge, I'd say that's pretty good?  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]16:17, 30 Sep 2008 
 * Pre-prot Saz, pre-prot. Also, heroes will use it on you against autoattacking assassins or to counter poison degen, a human will use it on the elementalist boss' target. In any case, wut? Are you arguing a hero makes a better protter than a human? The point is it's a role a human can do as well or better so if you are a monk, take that role and take a domoge hero instead of trying to be a smiter or something silly. If you aren't a monk, take the hero, don't put PS on your Paragon. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 08:08, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Variants
Definitely going to try that out since i use other version on myself Tho you made a great changes *thumbs up* About Variants maybe Pure Was Li Ming for fast heavy Condition remove. Like Mandragos condition spamm. Because I experienced that Foul Feast on Hero isn't that good than on Human Player.  ~Enar.   hello.  07:40, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Heroes handle it just fine. You can even just click it and the hero will select a target himself if you find it takes too long for the hero to do it. And there's always the 2 mend body and souls for even more condition removal  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]07:56, 30 Sep 2008 
 * /agree. What about Dwayna's Kiss for The Monk Healer? ~Enar.   hello.  08:47, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * dwaynas kiss is good for PvE [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  09:50, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Added it :3  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]09:58, 30 Sep 2008 

The Discord Bomber Optional Variant. How about Extinguish For fast party wide Condition Remove or Take out some Soul reaping points and add a Protection Skill? ~Enar.   hello.  10:52, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * There's 3 condition removals as is, and they can all be spammed like fuck :3  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]11:46, 30 Sep 2008 
 * yh :) [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  12:14, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh I forgot These Mend Body and Soul : D  ~Enar.   hello.  12:14, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Testing
I think it's ready to go in there, y/n?  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh 16:01, 30 Sep 2008 
 * i reckon so [[Image:That Twin Tom sig.jpg|19px]] That  Twin   Tom  16:34, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

how can you rate a build? I never have done it and i really like to do it.Rupsie 08:04, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Go to the build page, then click the "rate" tab at the top of the build, then rate it. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 08:08, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Thats the whole problem, they say Read-only mode: Your e-mail address is not authenticated. But my email is authenticated. Someone know how to solve that problem?rupsie 08:20, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Email authentication fails sometimes. Try Gmail or Hotmail, just make a new account and use it to authenticate. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 08:41, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Votes about full discord party
I agree that a full discord party might kill them off faster one by one. The downside though is that a whole number of characters get quite limited in what they can take due to having to spec a lot into death and reasonably into SR. Causing the characters to loose quite some utility.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh 16:52, 01 Oct 2008 
 * Honestly, unless you're doing full party Discord or multiple Discord, IV is better for AoE damage and such. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   16:54, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * IV needs a buff tbh making it shadow damage or something. Due to high armor in pve, the cold damage gets really low in HM. While you could still possibly replace discord with it, I personally would not. Point being, rupsies vote is completely biased. Even without IV or full Discord, this is not slow.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]16:57, 01 Oct 2008 
 * Armor-ignoring damage is a product of the skill itself, not the element. See Avatar of Balthazar vs. Signet of Judgment. Kabu To 17:41, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Whatever, you get the point. Not to mention there's generally less armor against shadow damage than cold, so it would still be a buff.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]17:43, 01 Oct 2008 
 * Putrid Bile + Putrid Explosion >>> IV. And the spec isn't really all that painful, 8SR + SoLS will carry you just fine, which leaves you with 10-12 optional spec. --71.229 17:46, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Necromancers need a buff for PvE mirite? - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 17:55, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Ups. Also, IV + Putrid Bile + Putrid Explosion >>>> Putrid Bile and Putrid Explosion. Or even carry Deathly Swarm (I know, but it works) if you don't want a corpse hog. I run this rather frequently:

Optionals should be whatever. -- <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   17:58, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * deadly swarm and withering aura? are you serious o.o; ?  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:01, 01 Oct 2008 
 * Withering Aura is good. Slap it on a decent physical with AoE attacks (Triple Chop, Dervs) and you have a pretty decent Weakness spam. Deathly Swarm is kinda lolz, but it's halfway decent AoE and recharges decently. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   18:04, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Deathly Swarm is awesome and Withering is great on off-MMs. --71.229 18:06, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * It looses its universality when either you or your friend needs to be a good physical imho.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:06, 01 Oct 2008 
 * Universality = how well it works in adverse circumstances, not how hard it is to put together. --71.229 18:08, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * This criterion describes how flexible the build is when used in a situation slightly different from what the build was designed for. This includes the ability to change strategy in case a foe shows unexpected actions, in case an ally does not perform as expected, or when used in a different location than originally intended.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:12, 01 Oct 2008 
 * Still, if you're not taking a physical with this, then you're at a huge disadvantage. They'll give you a frontline as well as the ability to deal more damage via themselves and the ability to use skills like Mark of Pain, Splinter, and Withering Aura. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   18:13, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * 2 mm's makes up for not having a frontline  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:15, 01 Oct 2008 
 * Doesn't act as expected =/= brings an entirely different build. --71.229 18:15, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * sucking counts as not performing as expected imho.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:17, 01 Oct 2008 


 * IV + Deathly Swarm? I know it can be fun doing 150+ against baby mobs but were trying to improve an HM build here =p I'll put Death Nova on a 2nd nec before I use any of that crap. Withering Aura is a money skill though - I'm often playing as a melee so it's almost always on their bar.


 * Anyways....4 Necs spec'd into Death is actually good. You're still underestimating what multiple copies of Shambling Horrors can do. It's also the only animate spell that can bypass the minion cap. The lost utility you mention is nothing - if you got tons of direct damage coming from a quick-recharging armor-ignoring spell, why do you need Weaken Armor/Defile Defense/Barbs? You wouldn't even really need enchantment removal. If you really wanna use those, Weaken/Defile work fine at a low spec. Enfeebling Blood is also a good one that works well at low spec. P A R A S I T I C 18:18, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Maybe to actually make the minions do some damage? I never said that many discords is crap. I only said it's a completely different and unrelated build. If you want to see one like it on this wiki, please feel free to post it. I will most likely even rate it great too. While withering aura might be good, it's not good in this situation imho. It puts up restrictions. Restrictions are the things we wanted to get rid off while making this build, just like sabway.  — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]18:22, 01 Oct 2008 

Too general
Teh noobs won't know what to use. Can you add some common combinations like sabway? And most of these necros are horrible att splits and rune suicide-- Shadow 22:52, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
 * And any build works with necros, get rid of all the spartan build crap-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 22:52, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Fixed runes, not sure how some of those got in there. Other than the SV, which was kind of forced because of the elite being in blood and the rest of blood being completely useless, most attrib splits are standard 3way splits. Hardly horrible and some sabway chars even use the same splits. I'm also not sure what you think this is, but you use all 6 of them and run outside. How is that for a combination? I'm not sure how big of a noob you have to be to not understand "take all these characters and kill things". If you want to get rid of the spartan crap, remove it yourself, it's a wiki. yawn. — <small style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;"> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]02:16, 08 Oct 2008 

Why moved from excelent to good team build?
Really, I used this 2 times to vanquish area and all of us were at 80%-100% health all the time. If this doesnt proof that it's excelent, then I'm going to play WoW.--ValeV 19:47, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just give it a 5-5-x and it'll go back up.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:02, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Here, back to excelent. :D--ValeV 09:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

SoS
Maybe make a spirit spammer, or use the Any/Rt Spirit Spammer for a player build. Just to fuel spirits light/MBAS
 * Please See - Archive:Team - 3 Hero Spiritway and Archive:Team - Spiritual Discord and Archive:Team - Dual Spirit Spam

Imroved version
Imo this has to be reworked. Lolwut enfeebling blood with gaze lol lol.

Any/Any The Players

/ The SS

/ The SV

/ The Bomber

/ The Discord Hybrid

/ The Restorer

/ The SoS

My version. If nobody gives a valid argument against it any time soon, I'm changing the article to match it. Heck I wrote this article in the first place. --<font color="HotPink">Iggy 's other account 13:23, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

The "SV" -bar drags the whole build down. I'd take second SS or discord instead. SV really isn't that great for general PVE, only in special occasions. Blood bond is decent, but with a minion bomber it seems like a waste. Life siphon in PVE? Oppressive gaze when minion bomber already provides poison and the SS weakness? Barbed signet is also stupid when you have already near capped health degen from poison and disease alone. T u u k k a 06:51, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes the whole blood necro seems forced, not needed. Death or curse would do better, if u must a nec that is.Infin 23:58, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Why not great?
Imo it should be moved to great category, look at ratings it has 5:) Even Discord has less :) --God Kamil 12:06, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Update or Delete/Archive
As is, it's really terrible. The SS bar is outdated, the blood bar doesn't do much, the Discord is worthless with just one of them, and the N/Mo healer is utter trash. The build is way too defensive overall (5 out of 6 bars with defensive skills, wut). I would make suggestions to improve it, but there isn't much you can do if trying to keep with the whole necro theme. Mesmers and Rits just provide a lot more damage and utility than Curses (outside of Enfeebling and Shadow of Fear) or Blood nowadays. -- Jai .  -  20:45, December 28 2010 (UTC)
 * This build was always a bad theorycraft, but abusing soul reaping works anyways.--Christmas sig.jpg talk  22:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Jaig is right, there's no good reason to bring 6 necros when you run out of good ways to utilize them. Sure soul reaping is hax but it's not like it's necessary to have a strong build. Necromas 23:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)