Archive talk:Team - 7 Hero Triple Melee

Still needs a lot of improvement, but the basic idea is to abuse melee's ability to deal consistent AoE damage outburst, while having enough melee support, protection, and other means of control and damage. DiogoALS 00:48, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * what's gonna keep blind and hexes of your frontline?-- GWPirate 关 01:44, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * this idea ain't bad, but if you lose aggro (for any reason) the frontline can't do a lot of aoe damage, because the enemies are scattered. Instead dervish, can put 3x W/A with 100b (same manly). -- Kilyan87 13:33, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * warriors are bad-- Relyk 13:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Do people think three melee are excessive or, if not, the four support heroes can be changed for better support (or at least for better removal of conditions/ hexes)? Although I'm the "author" of this idea, my intention is merely to present it for its potential, and I prefer to leave serious tweaks to people who know better, should the idea be worth it. Melee heroes have been suffering for their bad AI, but now that they can be more manageable with called target, I wonder if their consistent AoE damage and higher armor makes for a solid build team. DiogoALS 02:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, Sins AI with chains has been fixed. Can their spike potential be worth their inclusion to one or two melee slots? I suppose the lack of armor doesn't helps, but what about Stone Sheath and/ or Gust abuse? One of the sin's "free" elite could very well be Gust. DiogoALS 02:09, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Stone Sheath is E/Rt with heals and SoR is an order --Sewa 19:58, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That's very interesting. Feel free to change the build this way. DiogoALS 23:53, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Orders
...no one wants to change razah to derv primary. My suggestion:

or sth like that. Illoyon 17:05, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

? --Sewa 20:32, 17 March 2012 (UTC)


 * you don't need that much hex removal (in most cases)...also SoR is terrible and without Cultist's your orders probably becomes trouble with energy; you don't need prots if you bring ST rit...in this setup party heals are what you really wanna bring. Illoyon 11:38, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't need to change Razah to a dervish, there are already 3 obtainable dervish heroes.ShinraGuardian 18:36, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The build currently has 4 dervishes listed, 3x VoS and 1x Dwayna Orders. -- Toraen   confer  18:37, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, let's go with no hex removal and 3 melees all around the world :) --Sewa 20:45, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You'd probably be better off just taking a sin hero instead of one of the VoS's. You really don't need that much AoE, and you're also lacking in single-target damage. Three birds, one stone. -- Jai .  -  21:02, March 24 2012 (UTC)

dual melee
already done...Build:Team - 7 Hero Physway, of cause you could suggest variants or what ever. Illoyon 08:02, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Who changed everything to this? --Sewa 19:12, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I decided to take a melee hero out to fill in some holes, but I didn't realize there was already one build team so close to this. I'll probably put back a few of the older options. Maybe the dervish/ necro orders over the SoS Rit, have someone else take Splinter Weapon, and with all that extra adrenaline, have the assassin out, and a second dervish melee hero come back in. The monk fulfills its role nicely for offering extra hex removal and condition removal that hits foes near the melee, and for Strength of Honor. I could stick Splinter Weapon on him. I feel the monk deserves its spot over a third melee. Maybe its the mesmer that should go, not having real synergy with the build. DiogoALS 22:51, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I just realized a Orders Necro can take the key smiting skills of the monk. Nice. DiogoALS 23:13, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Revision
I've tested the current build in HM at Shadow's Passage, against the Ministry mobs (which I tend to die against even with a typical Player Support hero team). Half my heroes (all the melee, and the Orders) didn't even have any runes yet. Here's some observations:
 * Having one crippling scythe skill is effective when you wait for foes to ball up. I have chosen Crippling Victory for its adrenaline cost, which makes it spammable with Orders, but maybe the energy option is better to start the battle with.
 * Dervish heroes have infinite energy with a spammable Radiant Scythe. So any energy-costing optionals could be added if you find them to be very effective. Zealous Renewal is pointless, as an extra attack skill in its place will interact with Orders. Still, for a consistent +15/20 armor with Windwalker, they should probably get an extra enchantment nonetheless.
 * Three melee can AoE spike very fast, but at long, hard matches, they do get fragile (at least without runes). I'm thinking of Flashing Blades for the assassin, but I haven't tested the impact that can have with their energy, especially with "GftE!" (btw, scythes going for critical that many times is cool). It'll probably be a good thing to add self-healing optionals for the Dervish, like Victorious Sweep, or more defense.
 * Overall, the damage input of two dervishes and one assassin is scary. Scary in spiking power, scary in AoE damage and scary at consistent damage. But I think having another source of Shatter Hex/ Smite Hex and Splinter Weapon would do a lot of good. I don't know what to take out, though. Would it be stronger than an Orders hero? DiogoALS 13:51, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Human Profession
Will this build any more or less effectively with certain human player professions? --Supernick530 19:08, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * This build is supposed to work by itself, regardless of what the human player is, or what skills they bring themselves with. However, there's certainly a few skills that can further enchance it. Great Dwarf Weapon is an awesome PvE skill to bring, and this needs an extra Splinter Weapon, although I'm hoping to find a way to incorporate the later into another hero, somehow. A Smiter Monk would also have synergy to offer, if the Orders Smiter is not taken, and so would an elementalist with the new Double Casting elites (Double Dragon, Stone Sheath, Gust, Icy Mirror). Also, the player's profession might also free one hero slot, either by substituting the hero, or because I don't think this needs a forth physical character. This slot could then be used for an extra mesmer hero, or a SoS Rit for an extra splinter weapon (and healing).
 * I'm planning to write more about this on the article itself, but for now I'm just trying to make it as effective as possible by itself, regardless of the player's profession. DiogoALS 21:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

PI
Change it to panic.  Rask ✂  ✂  ✂  ✂  23:22, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Point of this build...
i don't see what this is meant to do...Spiking? C-spacing? Mixing spiking- and pressure-build is a bad idea, as you either lose spikepower or pressuredamage. Illoyon 10:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 1. If you wanna take 2x VoS dervs, then you need MoP, as they are great for spiking but terrible for pressure (aka c-spacing).
 * 2. If you wanna spike, it makes no sense to take a WotA Sin as third melee, as it doesn't perform well in spikes. Also a third melee is overkill.
 * 3. If you wanna spike, you need spike damage, so taking an Orders spammer wastes a hero slot, as is doesn't contribute much to your spike (also not mainbaring SoH with 3 melees...wtf?).
 * 4. If you wanna c-space, take 3 dagger spammers.
 * 5. If you wanna c-space, mainbar SoH and also get rid of CF and Dark Fury for OotV.
 * I haven't tried out the build, but I assumed they brought dual VoS for spiking and the daggers for cleanup. --Supernick530 18:24, 19 June 2012 (UTC)