User talk:Lukejohnson/Team - HA Lichway

The version i played yesterday. Though i bet there's better versions, so feel free to edit. - Y0_ ich_halt  09:53, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Let me get this straight, they kill your minions and all you can do is run around in circles?  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  09:54, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * we met some with an army of 50+ at the beginning of the match. that's why i'm sure there's better versions. yup, our success with this one was kinda limited. - Y0_ ich_halt  09:57, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * btw, we just went sf nuking afterwards... but even with sf you have problems against those armies. - Y0_ ich_halt  09:58, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Death Nova them all -> TASTE OF DEATH -> TASTE OF DEATH -> TASTE OF DEATH big AoE kersplosions <3 Brandnew.  10:07, 13 December 2008 (EST)

maybe like this? - Y0_ ich_halt  10:22, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * this is the wrong versio. good versions use arcane mimicry to each get 2 versions of AoTL, then use them. they use taste of death to heal as well sa to trigger death nova (you arcane echo - arcane mimic - lich - spam).  -- Gringo TALK 15:29, 13 December 2008 (EST) 
 * IIRC Death Nova has no recharge, why would you aecho it?;) Brandnew.  10:31, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * lolfail mistype. fixed.  -- Gringo TALK 15:32, 13 December 2008 (EST) 
 * well, tbh, update the build page then ;p Brandnew.  10:34, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * i did ask for said good versions above. just edit. - Y0_ ich_halt  10:35, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * but that would take time out of my day D: just go obs halls they is almost alwas one in there.  <font color="#444">-- Gringo <small style="font-family:Verdana;"><font color="#444">TALK 15:53, 13 December 2008 (EST) 
 * none with arcane echo. one version i saw uses only aotl without saccing. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 11:11, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * a lot of times theres just one bip that sacs before the game, constant prot spirit on him. or you just dont sac at all.  <font color="#444">-- Gringo <small style="font-family:Verdana;"><font color="#444">TALK 16:12, 13 December 2008 (EST) 
 * so you really did just make up the arcane echo one, and you can't get much out of only one saccing. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 11:13, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * what? i didnt make up anything, lots of teams use arcane mimicry/echo, and as i said others use a bip saccer cuz of the increased minion count and the increased energy to lich.  <font color="#444">-- Gringo <small style="font-family:Verdana;"><font color="#444">TALK 16:38, 13 December 2008 (EST) 
 * so how does it work then? you can't make 8xN/Me because then you don't have enough res. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 11:47, 13 December 2008 (EST)

this much about arcane echo. needs way more defense, though. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 13:34, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Maybe bring one ele with glyph of renewal + arcane mimicry on the NMe? or bring QZ ranger--√ iktor (contribs) 06:56, 14 December 2008 (EST)

If you manage to make this worthwhile it'll be 2 minutes and all teams carry Verata's Aura :D --Chaos Messenger 07:34, 14 December 2008 (EST)

I fail to see the hardness of this, you don't need any of that quick recharging shiznats, just simply have 1 through 6 kill themselves with awaken + br, 7 pre use aura so I don't miss do to the lively dropping with the death of 6, then 1 through 7 kill themselves, and 8 uses aura, then 2-8 kill themselves.. use aura... you have nigh close to 60 minions at start of match, but everyone is 60'd! yay!Wzee 07:37, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * If this gets played more often I guess people will just bring Verata's Aura and the like on one or two chars (maybe Gaze on a hero) to entirely screw this whole build with one skill only. Even if you bring some Verata's yourself, you won't be able to clean up the mess enough. --82.82.169.97 07:38, 14 December 2008 (EST)

What happened to old-school minion factories? I'm pretty sure they have more minion output than this. Asdfg 08:59, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * but thoes require corpses, this dosnt.. which means; This > Old School MM -- —Daɽkɘʃʂ   ӍcÇɧɽiʂtmaʂmonǥɘɼ  [[Image:Drk_Chs_Ball.jpg|17px17px]]. 09:51, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Maybe cuz old school minion factories got nerfed...? el o el Rawrawr Dinosaur 09:52, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * They nerfed that? MM factories didn't seem that imba to me. Asdfg 13:25, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * There used to be no minion limit, so timer started and 300+ minions. Rawrawr Dinosaur 13:35, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah I remember those times. But all you had to do was kill the necs and it was gg. Didn't warrant a nerf imo. Asdfg 13:37, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * You couldnt, because anyone who didnt have a comp with 10 ping would freeze. Rawrawr Dinosaur 13:39, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Ive seen this version in halls multiple times. More of a deathly swarm spike but its quite effective.

Anything that is optional I didnt catch as to what it was. ---  Ressmonkey (talk)  13:20, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * That's in principle just old Golemway revisited, although Fetid Ground doesn't make sense, it might have been Bitter Chill. --82.82.169.97 13:23, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Fetid is just cheap after spike. Saw a version today w/ a Glimmer monk.  13:27, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * You are right, I was too fixed on the conditional. --82.82.169.97 13:32, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Uhh ,yah, Vereta's Aura says hai. But you get brownie points for reviving minion factory. Naz 13:48, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Lol, who runs veratas aura in HA? Its like using Cant Touch This to counter touchers. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]]  Ressmonkey (talk)  13:50, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * LMAO. Why would run anyone Aura of the Lich in HA? Never saw it before! - Nobody runs any skill until it pays to invest 1 of 64 skillslots for it. If everyone runs a specific build counters will suddenly appear, that's all. --82.82.176.65 04:07, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Oh. i heard dark bond was nice. no? and you're missing /E for one necro to snare. or you lose relics Dutchess of Rose aka  lukejohnson  - talk 14:04, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Shut up, noone runs a /e in necro spike builds. Rawrawr Dinosaur 14:05, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * you're talking about the buuild posted on talk. i'm not. so shut up Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 14:18, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Doesnt stop the fact taking a /e would be pretty stupid. Rawrawr Dinosaur 14:20, 14 December 2008 (EST)

vid?
anyone know if theres a vid for this =O I really want to see it in action also it would be so much fun if this became common b/c any counter for mass minions is megafun66.66.95.26
 * Try obs mode, it's run everywhere. I've seen some top 100 guilds having serious probs with balanced against r3 PUG teams with this and winning only after 15 minutes or so... I think almost everyone had 60 DP when the game ended. --82.82.176.65 04:12, 15 December 2008 (EST)

tehee
I want to see Mark of Pain and Barbs in this :D -- ''' Chaos Messenger  11:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * That requires someone to spec into Curses. Not too good on a death magic + Soul reaping team.-- Ikimono <font color ="Silver">I know my Paragons [[Image:Paragon-icon-small.png]] 11:20, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Au contraire. Change Nekro 7 to Curses/DM with Cultist's Fervor, Barbs, Defile Defenses, Faintheartedness and an additional cover hex (e.g. Suffering). Barbs and Defile are spammable and lead to extreme pressure due to the minions. Barbs alone is like a small spike. And the necro has plenty of energy left, because 5e and 10e spells are basically free with CF. No need for SR on this one. That's way more effektive than 7 Liches. --82.82.176.65 17:19, 15 December 2008 (EST)

testing
has anyone played this yet? - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 12:51, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * No harder than one necro speccing into command. -- ''' Chaos Messenger  14:45, 15 December 2008 (EST)

don't sac...
ever heard of something called death penalty? so stop being manyly and lame with the sac and just cast aura twice before round(s). that's an easier and safer 16 minions right there... and don't say the ghosty >.> it's not enough 96.13.42.34 22:10, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * you've never gotten below 4 minutes in the zaishen beginning have you? 9/10 of the time you should have at least 8% moral boost unless something odd happens.-- Ikimono <font color ="Silver">I know my Paragons [[Image:Paragon-icon-small.png]] 05:21, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * thats not enough to counter -15% from the deaths from sacing...just use lich twice. my point wasn't the npc start but the actual rounds where death penalty will start to short it's pain. 96.13.3.248 14:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Saccing truely means nothing. This is the kind of build where you either flawless them, or get beaten. Everyone should be entering next round with 10% morale, and the saccer gets 5% dp only which isnt even low, lol. You cant even get dp in halls. Rawrawr Dinosaur 15:07, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Counter
BOOM!! -> This build become useless...
 * i think i've never seen that skill anywhere besides AB when MM's were getting popular. though, i do have to admit, i want to have this on a necro just for the hell of it. Same thing with Vocal Minority and paragons...though they can still struggle though it...and emerge victorious. unlike minion's loyalty.-- Ikimono <font color ="Silver">I know my Paragons [[Image:Paragon-icon-small.png]] 05:19, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Unless the player bringing Verata's Aura invests in some Death Magic, then it'll probably just kill most of the minions on cast. You could achieve pretty much the same effect with AoE damage and/or Holy damage, while probably having a skill that isn't a complete waste of space against normal teams.
 * Yes, it messes up this team in an epic way, but since there's going to be enchantment removal, chances are you'll end up getting Aura ripped off in a hurry. I don't think the Lich team worries too much about rogue minions attacking everything they aggro. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  06:53, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * VA is not to steal the minions but to destroy them. 5 Death Magic should be the maximum. If someone rly cares to re-steal the 4 left minions in my possession or to remove the enchant, who cares? Damage is already done, you can kill of tremendous amounts of minions with this. BTW, it may be a helpful skill against some other TBs that use minion factories, like heros. --82.82.190.92 10:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * verata's doesn't deal any damage to the minions and this build isn't healing them anyway o.O and chances are the minions will attack you after release. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 10:45, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Lolwut? Verata's doesn't deal any damage? Verata's destroys 30 minions in an instant... how's that "no damage"? --82.82.190.92 10:50, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Um, veratas doesnt destroy minions. Rawrawr Dinosaur 11:32, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * It does if you only run 5 death magic and you get a hold of >3 minions. - [[Image:Panic_sig5.png]] 11:40, 16 December 2008 (EST)

It's one skill, fit it into a lingering necro or something-- Christmas Relyk  11:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * lol. waste s kill slot for a lame skill that only work's vs thsi and golemway. if you want t odo that, check to see if anyone is running it in the districts first. Dutchess of Rose  aka  lukejohnson  - talk 12:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * give the last optional for the 4th N/Me saccer verita's aura as well, if you meet it, you can cap it back, but that's only if you're willing to sacrifive 1/64 slots for it. Aerion 11:42, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * No. You can't cap back minions that have been destroyed by low DM usage of Verata's Aura. That's a waste of 1/64 slots. It's much easier for this team to produce new minions. Problem with VA is also you will lose your new minions after some time. That's ok as a counter but not for being a minion factory in the first run. --82.83.50.54 06:13, 19 December 2008 (EST)

Dark Bond
This needs more of it. ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ  12:53, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * not really. The minions are there for pressure, not to act as some defense. And if you lose them (due to dark bond) you lose a lot of your killing power. God  box    13:11, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * actually with death nova you are just killing more.  <font color="#444">-- Gringo <small style="font-family:Verdana;"><font color="#444">TALK 18:14, 16 December 2008 (EST) 
 * you're only using those dying anyway to their best. you're not supposed to enchant them and then suck them dead with taste of death. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 13:22, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Might be an option with a hero. They're quite good at Death Novaing anything dying, especially minions. Next AI exploit after Tainted. ;-) This would be very funny with Verata's as a counter as well, since the bombing from a dozen minions would turn against the summoners. Talk of backfiring... --82.82.190.92 15:14, 16 December 2008 (EST)

O hai
I'm just wondering about the exact usage of this build.. Because saccing with a minion army is such great thinking. --''' —Chaos  Messenger   11:05, 25 December 2008 (EST)
 * there. - Y0_ ich_halt </tt> 15:22, 27 December 2008 (EST)

This
[build prof=Necromancer/Elementalist][Vampiric Swarm][Vampiric Gaze][Blood is Power][Grasping Earth][Ward Against Foes][Rend Enchantments][Weaken Armor][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=Necromancer/Ritualist][Deathly Swarm][Fetid Ground][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Weapon of Warding][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=Necromancer/Ritualist][Deathly Swarm][Fetid Ground][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond][Mend Body and Soul][Weapon of Warding][Life][Death Pact Signet][/build]

[build prof=Necromancer/Ritualist][Deathly Swarm][Fetid Ground][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Rejuvenation][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=Necromancer/Ritualist][Deathly Swarm][Fetid Ground][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Recuperation][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=Necromancer/Paragon][Deathly Swarm][Fetid Ground][Aura of the Lich][Dark Bond]["Make Haste!"]["Fall Back!"][Song of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=Necromancer/Monk][Deathly Swarm][Fetid Ground][Restore Condition][Spirit Bond][Aura of Stability][Shield of Absorption][Guardian][Convert Hexes][/build]

[build prof=Monk/Mesmer][Infuse Health][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Heal Party][Spotless Mind][Hex Breaker][Healer's Boon][Channeling][/build] winnar builds --  Hole    Talks dirty.   18:13, 28 December 2008 (EST)


 * Hmm.. Nice, I didn't even notice that it had 3 saccers at first. --''' —Santa's  Messenger  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|20px]] 06:27, 29 December 2008 (EST)

-this may be a noob question, but where the hell are the minions..?


 * Don't read skills through PvXwiki, go check what gw wiki tells about Aura of the Lich. --''' —Santa's  Messenger  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|20px]] 08:44, 1 January 2009 (EST)
 * So bad. You want as many minions as possible as they are your pressure, and you don't want to kill them through Dark Bond. God  box    08:50, 1 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hole's b ar is right, the minions aren't there for pressure, i mean they're just a huge channel tank ball for monks. Guardian/soa is all you need to negate minion pressure and the channeling from them makes it easy to just spam prots. The minions are there to be a defensive wall, to block movement, ball up enemies, and hide the spike. When done right this can roll, Swarm-2-1, ping the infuse, fetid-2-1. Usuallyu you'll get a kill because either multiple people will get hit by swarm, or fetid will get the heal monk when he infuses the swarm spike. The minions are just there to ball shit up and make kiting a bitch, not too cause pressure--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 15:46, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * And this build makes so many minions that it doesn't matter if they die, it's better to keep your players up than minions--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 15:48, 4 January 2009 (EST)

one thing... for all you veteras aura freaks out there, if u put in a nova hero onto this build, thats 56 novas at once BOOM 82.12.244.222 09:07, 2 January 2009 (EST)

lol
I ran this with my guild late last night, only we put Infuse Condition on as many slots as possible. PS sin immunity is pretty fucking awesome. -- Shazam The  Snake      hissssssssssss 15:55, 3 January 2009 (EST)


 * gives you slow minions, lol :D --''' -Ch ao  s-  [[Image:TheDentist.jpg|19px]] 17:03, 3 January 2009 (EST)
 * O no im crippled!! QQ. Just turn around, look the sin in the face and channel tank his ass after you get aura of stability. 71.243.6.11 15:39, 4 January 2009 (EST)
 * Except they can't even cripple you. -- Shazam The  Snake    [[Image:Shazam_The_Snake.png]]  hissssssssssss 02:02, 5 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hes saying theres no use in trying to avoid cripple with infuse conditions. Tbh, since theres an average of 1.75 palm strike sins on every team and without their snare or trampling ox theyre pretty bad, I would say that infuse condition would be a viable variant. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]]  Ressmonkey (talk)  15:35, 5 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeh, I agree that speccing against PS definitely shouldn't be mainbar. But currently, AoS isn't even on the build, and even if it were, a single copy isn't enough to keep up with PS sins. 2x an 8-second recharge KD easily outdoes AoS. -- Shazam The  Snake    [[Image:Shazam_The_Snake.png]]  hissssssssssss 20:37, 5 January 2009 (EST)
 * Six necros with minor runes wont kill anything. needs moar major/superior and 7 necros 216.239.77.207 17:28, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * err no. yes ti will kill. do the math. ..LJ..  17:30, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ok, that wasnt me as ip but i will anyway. these 6 necs = 826 when you full spike, ie not enough to kill! (considering shields + people run vitals + 826 is nothing..) Your deathly swarm aoe spikes only do 516 dmg, which is also not enough. Stop being bad. 7 Necs (with minors or majors, idc) is way better. Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:36, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ignoring deepwound on spike completely? which another 100 damage. And remember you have cracked armour to help with the problem of shields. ..LJ.. 17:39, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Please explain how your caller uses deathly swarm, fetid, and augury, all in one spike. Augury is for when you dont use swarm or fetid... Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:40, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Also, the cracked armor thing works when you have 7 necros because you can cracked as your only assist and then do enough dmg to kill. With 6 necs, you cracked and then the other 5 necs dont do enough =\ Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:41, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * what exactly are you looking at? ..LJ..  17:44, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * This build? Try and answer me, really do. Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:44, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * well where the hell is augury, and cracked armour is on nubmer 7 (monk) and deep wound is on 2. so what ARE you looking at? ..LJ..  17:48, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * K, i seem to have assumed you ran a good caller. Chest thumper will hit after the spike has all landed (lol) admittedly cracked is on all spikes. Still, why take so little dmg when you can have just as much defence but more damage with more necs? Makes no sense, at all. Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:53, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * well my thinking would be that cracked armour makes up for a lot of damage lost against vs cold shields, and its on every spike. And somethign like pnh or another monk helps defence just that bit more whilst spiking, as 1 monk can often be easy(well much easier anyway) to kill things through in 2 seconds. ..LJ..  18:21, 30 January 2009 (EST)

This
Is now similar to Build:Team - HA Lichspike <font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="darkblue">crazy <font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="orange">cow  17:49, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * not really ..LJ.. 17:51, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * I posted deathly swarm spike when this was still trash (with N/mesmers) Spikeownage 17:52, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not really? 1 BiPer, 5 AotL/Deathly Swarm, same usage? <font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="darkblue">crazy [[Image:Cow.png]]<font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="orange">cow  17:53, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Look at the bars ..LJ..  17:54, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * I did. <font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="darkblue">crazy [[Image:Cow.png]]<font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="orange">cow  17:56, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * If one of them has to get WELL'd its this one because deathly swarm spike was first and its superior tbh.Spikeownage 17:57, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * wow. superior? are you joking or something? ..LJ..  17:59, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * LUKE YOU DONT EVEN PLAY HA STOP FUCKING THEORYCRAFTING Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:00, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Seriously.Spikeownage 18:02, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * YESI FUCKING DO. rawr. if you think the other one if worthy of even being in ha with no snare. shoot yourself. ..LJ..  18:03, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * So go make the other one better, don't make a new one. <font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="darkblue">crazy [[Image:Cow.png]]<font face="Tekton Pro Ext" color="orange">cow  18:05, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Im not even going to reply because it would be filled with NPA and the fact you just showed you don't play competitive (ie not some r6 bull) HA. Noone runs a motherfucking /e in necro spike. U mad. Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:07, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * just because no-one runs it doesnt mean it doesnt work. And don't give me "its because it sucks crap" the same happened with updates and Primal rage. ..LJ..  18:09, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Jesus f christ. There is no point even trying to argue with you, so im not going to. Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:10, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * then just do the simple thing and explain why fuckign properly, instead of whining that no1 runs it. ..LJ..  18:12, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * I already said i refuse to argue with you. If someone else asks, i will. Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:17, 30 January 2009 (EST)

Your DW
looks kinda clumsy to me. Isn't it wiser to just pack Sundering Weapon on one of the N/Rts so your monk can go Mo/Me and actually channel tank? - Star Seeker  18:06, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Eh, augury is the best one. Shell shock on a mo is fine, but chest thumper hits after the spike if you use deathly swarm so its gonna be bad either way. Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:07, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * he doesn't need channeling with that bar ..LJ..  18:08, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * Okies, AoD it is. - Star Seeker  05:13, 31 January 2009 (EST)