Archive talk:Mo/Me HA LoD Infuse

Initial Discussion
Used this build in Ha when i meet dam powerblockers all the time so this came out Fish 00:21, 16 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I aint playing with no 12 points in healing prayers. Asdfg 00:26, 16 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Fast response, might be true but i think it's worth it due to it can help in almost every defensive situation
 * Drop Divine Favor. Asdfg 00:45, 16 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Not readdy to drop it, it's what makes monk efficent healers, nmot worth the 5-10 more health for every member

Work on your punctuaion please... there's ONE period in the entire build... and it's automatically put in on the build format. BTW, no 12 healing prayers = phail. drop prot, i usually run 12 heal 9 divine 8 prot 5 inspiration.&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 07:46, 16 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Please sign your comments with four ~'s ( ~ ). Thank you.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ₮ /ḉ/ Д 〛 08:30, 16 August 2007 (CEST)

Fixing formating and such, made this build to late at night for my headFish 09:46, 16 August 2007 (CEST)

Fixed formatting and readjusted the attributes, write here if you want it more improved Fish 10:03, 16 August 2007 (CEST)

You dont take SB and Infuse on the same bar. SB goes on the main prot, Infuse on the LoD. Its near pointless carrying 2 copies. Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:24, 16 August 2007 (CEST)

This can be used along side a protective monk wich uses protective spirit wich is best on the main protect monk due to the enchantment time, while spirit bond is always 10 seconds long. And what if you don't got any rez left and you are the only monk left alive, then this has a big benefit. You ussual don't need more healing spells then dwaynas kiss and LoD. RoF is far supporior then OoH, WoC. Healing touch is an option for self heal, but the devine favour is maybe to low for it to be efficent. Fish 21:19, 16 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Yes. And when you face a spike, you will lose. You since you need to infuse and spirit bond then at the same time. G Fucking G. Unexist 11:28, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Spiritbond is often enough to prevent the spike, and if the other monk did protect spirit wich it does if he/she is good, the target is unkillable untill the enchantments is removed. At least if attacks does more then 60dmg wich it indeed does Fish 11:51, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * um maybe in ta spirit bond is all you need against maybe ritspike. sb and prot spir aint enough.Dark0805|Rant 17:02, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Seriously, this will get tiny ratings with SB and Infuse on the same bar. There is a reason the Infuser always carries PS and SB is on the other monk.[[Image:Signet_of_Disruption.jpg|User:Rawrawr Dinosaur|19px]]Rawrawr Dinosaur 19:02, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * SB most certainly can be run on the LoD. Tbh, it doesn't matter as long as you also have prot on the RC/SoD. I myself, prefer SB on LoD, as often times, while under SB you can wait to recover... and be doing other things in its stead. Especially in the case of multiple on-going spikes, where LoD's uses become less useful/rec. Only bad infusers, spam infuse. In most cases, Infusing is entirely unnecessary, as RoF + LoD provides an abundant source of party management/healing. It is entirely preference, though SB on LoD reqs the RC/SoD to be more skilled then usual (As the worst of the two monks, is usually the prot spec) Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 03:37, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

Umm I got here with two (improper) redirects from the Main Page.. someone could fix it? cKowDont 22:19, 30 August 2007 (CEST)

bar clean up
ok, i cleaned up the bar and added a three monk varient, both bars i got from an r9 along with how to use them. so dont revert them! Alpha fireborn 19:40, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * It says if you run one with sor or sod monk. If you run a SoR monk you generally phail tbh. Also, not all dual monk backlines run an RC (I think SoD is more common) so I think you should mention that. [[Image:Signet_of_Disruption.jpg|User:Rawrawr Dinosaur|19px]]Rawrawr Dinosaur 20:34, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

Hope you don't mind, I fixed some of the grammer and punctuation errors. Looks nicer now. Great build btw.-- Victoryisyours 17:39, 21 August 2007 (CEST)

This bar is not right at all. This is just a GvG Monk bar with Channeling instead of Return. All good Monks run Orison for spammability with Channeling and not having to invest in 4 attributes, and Healing Seed for Altar maps. Prot is not supposed to be on an LoD bar in HA, even in a 2-Monk backline. Go observe any match in Halls and you'll see what I mean. Radiant 21:11, 30 August 2007 (CEST)

I've never seen any monk in the top guilds run Orison for anything, HA or otherwise. RoF will outdo it with very little investment in prot prayers. --Hikari 00:04, 31 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Then you probably need to observe some more. It would be nice if there were seperate articles for the HA and GvG LoD/Infuse because both are completely different. Radiant 15:22, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

People run Orison, because there is nothing better, and they are running all heal/divine. Why do you think I dislike HA shenanigans :/ Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 00:06, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

Orison is terrible. One p-block and you're useless. Healing Seed is nice, but SoA is better, and chances are the prot monk will have it. If the prot monk is dead and there's a warrior training on you, Orison won't do anything. Tycn 15:26, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

Stop saying this and read the name of this build. It's the HA LoD/Infuser, not the GvG LoD/Infuser. I don't care what people run in GvG, but the fact is that every good Monk in HA runs Orison and no Prot. Power Block is not really popular in HA anyway, it's mostly PD.

HA LoD / Infuse

GvG LoD / Infuse

Radiant 15:34, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

I still stand by my opinion that a LoD should have prot unless you have 2 prot monks, and even then only if they're extremely experienced. Plenty of spikes are hard to deal with if you only have SB or only have Prot Spirt. And with that bar, you don't have anything for after infuse, while RoF allows you to deliver more healing/damage mitigation without risking the target dying. Tycn 15:46, 31 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Quite. I run prot on my HA LoD builds.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 15:47, 31 August 2007 (CEST)


 * I have had this argument with Auron, and unless you are running a random imba LoD Arcane SB, then run damn RoF :P. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 22:57, 31 August 2007 (CEST)


 * You can say whatever you want, but my 2 years of HA experience and generally high amount of fame say otherwise. All good Monks run Orison and Seed. Radiant 23:36, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * RoF>Orison. GvG>HA. That's how people roll. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 23:38, 31 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Fine. Keep RoF, but drop Prot Spirit. It just doesn't make any sense not to have Seed. Also, wtb seperate GvG article? Radiant 23:40, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * We have like 4 :/. Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:53, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * You seem to be predicating your argument on the assumption that there are good monks in HA, Radiant. This is not advisable. Also, Orison is a horrible skill. RoF is better. I'd run RoF at 0 prot before I ran orison at any healing. Speaking of which, RoF outclasses Orison at 14 with as little as 5 prot. It's also a better skill than orison at any attributes. Also, Healing Seed? Did people start running life bonders and two healing monks in HA again? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 00:04, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Huh? You mean RoF? - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   00:23, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * You're just saying a lot of wrong things right now. First of all, there are tons of good Monks in HA - most of which are either high ranked HA players that didn't like the stale and long gameplay of GvG or (most importantly) GvG players with a high HA Rank. Second, I already explained why Orison is better, a few times actually. I will explain it more thoroughly this time.


 * In my book, HA means only ONE thing: Hall of Heroes. Everything else is just farming off all the bad teams on Annihilation and outplaying all the good teams on Objective maps. In Halls the LoD Monk is generally right next to the Altar (except on Relic maps), meaning that the Monk gets 5 to 10 energy per Orison. I can see why you want to take RoF instead - but the investment is not always worth it. Orison is also a better followup after an Infuse.
 * Taking Prot Spirit is an absolute waste of your skill slot, there is no Warrior to preprot and in a 3-Monk backline it's covered anyway. Healing Seed means your Ghostly Hero will be taking a LOT less pressure and on Capture Points it also means your frontliners won't get bombed by traps and AoE that easily. Either way, when I first discussed Orison and Seed I KNEW you were going to respond like that, but please read this thoroughly and understand why I KNOW these skills are better.


 * PS: RoF isn't that amazing at 5. Radiant 00:33, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Healing seed is good HA. RoF is godmode everywhere. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:50, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Point 1: HA is not a high-level form of PvP. A player who is good at high-level GvG is inherently good at HA, because skill/experience at higher-level PvP applies to lower-level PvP. The reverse is not the case. A good HA player is not inherently good at GvG. You may dispute the first, second, or third statement that I have just made, but the second and third are certainly true, and the first follows logically from both it and that higher-level PvP knowledge applies to lower-level PvP, but not vice versa(which has considerable support).
 * Point 2:LoD is an LoD/infuse's self-heal after infuse.
 * Point 3:RoF is better than Orison in every single way except for healing people who aren't taking damage at as little as 5 spec(it negates a total of df heal+74 damage at 5e, 1/4c, 2recharge).
 * Point 4:You have just stated that no one ever uses warriors in HA.
 * Point 5:Healing Seed is redundant when considering the existence of SoA(and its not unlikely inclusion in your team build).
 * Point 6:The seed comment was somewhat joking, but outside of three monk backlines, you need prot spirit or SB on your LoD. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 01:01, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Why would LoD bring prot? Im pretty sure most HA teams run full prots (i.e. RC). Orison is good, i dont know why you would say it isnt...  RoF on an LoD boggles me.... When i LoD infuse i dont do ANY prot, because its pointless when you have prot monks.  and at Edru, i loled pretty hard Echo Ftw 03:10, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * RoF alone is better than any monk bar without it(this is hyperbole, but only barely). Orison is horrible. This is a well-known fact of GW. Inefficient, long-casting, weak effect. However, I might run it on an infuser that doesn't have LoD to avoid bringing Healing Touch for self-healing. LoD is your self-heal as an LoD. Dwayna's/sig rejuv and LoD are your heals for everyone else. Every monk in high-level play has been triple-speccing since Factions(with the exception of SoD monks during the hex meta). --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:19, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

then you should uninstall. RoF is the core of all good monk builds, as it it outclasses many elites. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 03:16, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Basically what I was going to say, but I try to be nice. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:19, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * i hate when i type something and someone edits before me... lol. anyway what i was gunna say is that on an infuser he cant expect to heal himself with RoF... Orison is a guaranteed heal. RoF at low attributes is meh.  And dont tell me to unistall, it just shows everyone your a douche Echo Ftw 03:23, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * LoD is your self-heal after an infuse... RoF at 5 prot or higher is better than Orison in every way except that Orison is somewhat better for healing people not taking damage. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:25, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * No NPA. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:26, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * s'ok i am a douche. orison is only better for degen... and that's why you have LoD. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 03:27, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * NPA? he practically announced it himself with such an arrogant statement. And still Orison will heal for X every time (unless DW, hexes, etc) in MY experience RoF generally heals that wand hit for 14 or that adren building axe strike for 20... yeah so sometimes it kicks the shit out of a big adren spike but that is why you have full prot doods on your team.  also RoF makes you spread your attributes, why would you when you can get more healing and be a LoD/Infuse not a wanna be protter Echo Ftw 03:32, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * telling you to uninstakll isn't violating NPA. losing 6-9 points per heal from divine favor is hardly noticeable (especially on a LoD) but the difference between orison and a [well-timed]RoF is very noticeable. why are you getting wanded/timing your RoFs to get int'd by wands? &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 03:35, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Really, if you're arguing Orison's value as a self heal, get Healing Touch. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   03:37, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I am not jsut arguing Orisons self heal potential you can heal other people with it =D(also low DF to go prot = no good Heal Touch (i.e. NEEDS MOAR DIVINE FAVOR)) and i still think on a healing build that orison > rof.... list it as a variant because in MY HA experience never are protection skills called for.  Just my opinion.  Healing LoD should be added as variants  Echo Ftw 03:40, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

Healing is bad. You run the least healing you think you will need(to mop up whatever damage gets through your monks' protting), and a party-wide heal to handle condi/hex pressure. The list of good healing skills consists of: LoD, Infuse, Gift(can't use it), Dwayna's, and Sig of Rejuv(and Dwayna's and Sig aren't so much good as they are just not horribly bad.) Healing is bad, not just the attribute, as well. Prot is more important. Both monks in a 2 monk backline and at least 2 monks of a 3 monk backline should have prot. At 5 prot and 14 healing, in any situation in which a person is taking any meaningful damage(otherwise, you can just LoD/dwayna's it), RoF is better than Orison in every way. Besides, if your prot monk(s) can't gift you after your infuse to heal you, tell them to stop sucking. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:44, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * 2 healing skills @ 14 heal ftw? last time i checked no. and healing sucks??!?!? N/Rt = GG Echo Ftw 03:46, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Healing is bad. This is a fact in GW. This is why rits are almost never used in high-level PvP for healing. Rits have incredible healing. They also have a handle of strong prots. Also, the reason people ran N/Rts was the infinite energy and being able to spike as well. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:49, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * lawl you have done HA recently no? Echo Ftw 03:50, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I honestly don't care what scrubs run in HA. Healing sucks. This has been known since Prophecies. It's no less true now when the offense is so much stronger than it used to be. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:56, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Scrubs? Its all meta and used by the best. THIS BUILD IS FOR HA EDRU. Do not comment or link it to any GVG. I dont care if you consider HA unworthy pvp that gvg doods can do (i disagree) on a whim.  HA is just as much pvp as Gvg is and RA is.  Healing is not good?  wtf?  i know many say it sucks (in RA as a single monk i agree is does as it has no versatility) but god dammit in HA you have other players for that versatility.  You also claim that healing seed is bad? My comment to that is gosh think about what you say.  Its the closest to prot healing can get.  And in HA it is used.  You act like this big bad wolf, the wise sage but from your 6 points i say you just gvg. Sure come here and act like you know meta HA, but you will get shot down by us (yeah me) HA'ers.  Echo Ftw 04:03, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm pretty sure the gametype isn't relevant to basic game mechanics like healing being inefficient to counter the far more powerful offense in the game. I'm pretty sure the gametype isn't relevant to the increased efficiency gained by including healing and prot on both monks. As I said, I was joking about healing seed. You might have not noticed the reference to healing balls... Maybe you weren't around then? I guarantee you any good GvG player could do well in HA. All of the high-level gvgers I know do quite well in HA. HA's a joke, anyway. I know people who've held with 8 touch rangers among other retarded builds. Said people also used to hold halls nightly to give the poor favorless Japanese favor. They're GvGers. They think HA's a joke. Do you see the point I'm getting across. Healing is bad. This is a basic game mechanic. If you are unwilling to accept this, I am sorry, but it is truth. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 04:12, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * My LoD bar, sub ps occasionally:

<font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:51, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Damn it, this is HA. Get your face in the game Readem!  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 03:54, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Sorry...I HA every millennium and then some... <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 04:02, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

edru i see on your talk page you say the you likes the Patient Spirit. It is in healing prayers and its effects are solely healing. Now i waits 3 sec for heals when a skill like Orison just heals. You claim the healing in GW sucks yet you support this new healing skill? i am not trying to call you a hypocrite (although its inevitable) but rather wondering why you would like such a skill. it is good i agree and i dont see why you like it. note: i my just be babbling Echo Ftw 03:56, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * 1/4 second cast, so it doesn't get interrupted. It's not a very good skill, regardless. It had potential, but it's just not strong enough to replace anything on an LoD bar(although it's much better than orison). It's interesting but there's just not room for it. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 03:58, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

to summarize the above discussion
orison sucks, RoF is great. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 04:22, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * 'Tis true. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 04:24, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I RUN ORISON ON ALL MAI BILDS CUZ IT SOOO GUD U R ALL H8RS 4 NOT TRIEN THE BILD VAST ADMIN CONSPIRACY BLAH BLAH /CRY  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 04:31, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

Orison sucks dick... err, my dick? No, wait, my nuker doesn't have a dick... So yeah orison = UBER fail against high damage output. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 04:36, 1 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Well, u guys are making summary of edru's point, not the orison lovers. In any case, I dun get why he's defending orison, I haven't even used that skill since the first 2 months of GW b/c it doesn't heal jack. It's the weakest healing skill ever... what's the point? especially when u can just heal urself with LoD... costs the same, might as well heal others at the same time. And after wasting 10min (i actually have no clue how long) reading all that it makes me want to ask... why do some ppl hate Rt healers? --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 05:02, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Because Monks are better?  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 05:04, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Because healing is bad. Rits don't have enough prot. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 05:04, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Monk healing isn't all that better. There are many skills in Rt which is way higher in efficiency vs many monk skills. take recuperation for example. May be extremely high energy of 25, but calc the effciency and it's way over in leaps and bounds over say.. something like WoH at max performance WITH DF at max. Yes things are in more conditional state, but at the peak performance, it really does outshine. Plus, Rt heals don't have "other ally" crap as much that's always so annoying, thus eliminating the need of people saying orison is great. You can actually use a all the self heal on yourself. And edru's point is irrelevent since it's off topic - you dont see ppl saying monks suck at healing. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 05:11, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * rit healing is too straightforward. the only spike-heal they have is kind of weak aand conditional. they can't prevent damage, only heal through it. rit healing is nice specced with channeling for splinter weapon, spirit rift, ect. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 05:15, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I was being way more general, ppl even in pve hates Rt healing... lol But i guess i'll just wrap it there... off topic. --[[Image:Flag of South Korea.png|22x22px]] Grumpy (Talk | Contrib) 00:26, 2 September 2007 (CEST)

This discussion is complete bullshit. You're all acting like you're playing in top 10 GvGs and blindly following the GvG guidelines instead of opening your god damn eyes and looking at the article name. Some of you are absolute douches acting like pro's while you're in fact probably not even on the ladder. Please tell me your Guild Rank.

"I RUN ORISON ON ALL MAI BILDS CUZ IT SOOO GUD U R ALL H8RS 4 NOT TRIEN THE BILD VAST ADMIN CONSPIRACY BLAH BLAH /CRY"

Wow, who the hell are you anyway? What about this:

''"OMG ROF OWNZZ BECAZ POEPL IN GVG UUS IT ALL TEH TIEM AND DEY IZ UEBR-PRO LAHH I DUN LIEK HA BECAZ IT IZ ZUU HARD FUUR ME 2 LIZZEN 2 OTTER POEPL DAT IZ MOAR EXPARIENCED DAN MEE"

Radiant 14:28, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * i still dont get why orison is good though 0.o &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 18:58, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * You'd have a good point if I had actually mentioned GvG monk bars... but, RoF is objectively better than Orison in every way at 5 prot on anyone taking meaningful damage(healing people not taking meaningful damage is what LoD is for). I've yet to see any good reason given for taking orison, so I continue to say that RoF is the better option. If this was some 3 monk backline where your LoD was amimickrying SB, then I would accept not bringing RoF because you couldn't spare the points, but when you've already got plenty of points in prot, why wouldn't you want to bring what is quite possibly the best monk skill. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 19:17, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

I was joking lol. Orison is up there as one of the worst heals in the game.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ŞƳŞŌƤ 〛 19:31, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

being on the ladder =/= common sense. why is a 1/4 cast with equal (or better) healing power, the same recharge worse than a 1 second cast pure (weak) heal on a LoD bar? &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 19:42, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm not going to explain this over and over, stop acting like an infant. Radiant 20:04, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * uh, youve never given a reason. you just said good monks run orison in HA then mocked us for saying what other top players use. &mdash; <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 20:08, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * LOL, just LOL. Did your eyeballs get ripped out or something? Radiant 20:36, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

Look you doods, you are all arguing your points from a GvG point of view. This build is for HA. Shut the fuck up with GvG, stop acting like you know all about HA meta... you say that you guys can do HA because you got GvG skills? all i can say is that from your ideas on this build you would get kicked, or at least i would kick you. Stop stop stop saying that healing sucks when it is META IN HA, THIS IS AN HA BUILD. ALL of your points are SOOOO null and void. TODAY, IN TODAYS META, HEALING IS USED IN HA. i dont give two flying fucks what is happening in GvG (the so called "real" pvp). Fuck NPA, you guys are sooo arrogant. you gvg so you know everything? no. You say a gvg guy can HA? no. you CLEARLY dont know the meta. Go do HA for real, win halls a few times. THEN you can come here and argue with me but until then YOU will just have to take my word for it... HEALING IN HA IS META. That is the whole point. There is nothing else to say. Ok prot is better than healing, healing is still used and you are not going to change it no matter how much you want. So YOU (not me) are going to have to accept that healing is meta and prot is not. I cant believe that gvg guys think you can just band up and dominate with your so called superiority. THIS is why wiki builds doesnt work. You know-it-alls parade around and rub your "ubberness" off on the atricles to "help out". Do it in gvg builds. DONT try and make HA become gvg, it is SOOOOO different. Orison is USED in todays meta. What the fuck are you arguing? you and no number of gvg "gods" are going to change it. go do some HA then maybe you can come here and make the articles, but all you (from what i understand) SUCK at HA. Raedam even said he does it once a millenuim. So RoF isnt used in this HA build and that isnt good enough for you and your "amazing leet skilled" gvg guild, QQ more. Orison is used, nuf said Echo Ftw 20:18, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Actually, buildswikis typically fail because most people who play GW are bad and therefore the majority of people on a builds wiki will be bad. Again, I have not been discussing anything from a GvG perspective, I have simply been demonstrating that RoF is objectively better in every way that matters than Orison. Please refute this is you want to disagree with me.
 * dude i already typed it ALL out about how RoF only heals that 14 dmg wand attack or a 20 dmg adren building axe hit. Read it again and refute that.  Orison = self heal post-infuse.  LoD as self heal after infuse is a bad idea.  Save LoD for when you NEED the big party wide heal.  and also i dont care if RoF > Orison.  Orison is meta, just STOP trying to change HA meta because you need to be pretty sexy if you want to do that Echo Ftw 20:26, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * As I said, if it triggers on a 14 damage wand or a 20 damage adren building axe hit, then the person's not taking meaningful damage so it doesn't matter. Saying that you're right over and over again without support doesn't prove anything. Why would you need to save a 5second recharge spell for situations that don't even occur very often except against condi or hex pressure teams(or your team sucks)? You don't care if RoF is better than Orison? PvXwiki is supposed to have the best builds. If mending wammos become meta(which they aren't far from in the areas where they get ran... :/), they'll still get WELL'ed, because they're bad. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 20:41, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

An interesting statistic:
 * 9 appeals to authority(a type of logical fallacy) in the pro-orison discussion.
 * 2(one of which is just readem being readem and one of which is just an offhand comment) in pro-RoF discussion. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 20:48, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

Pro-RoF players, please state your Guild and Hero Rank in this following template:

Best Guild Rank: -

Current Guild Rank: -

Current Champion Rank: -

Current Hero Rank: -

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kkty Radiant 21:21, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * ~1000 - N/A - 0 - 1 - 31 - 15 months
 * I have however played with and against players from cow, eF, rawr, among others, and I have been commended concerning my understanding of game mechanics by Yue of [DF]. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 21:39, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I will reiterate that you don't need to be r12 and in iQ(since Ensign alone probably has a better understanding of the game than most whole guilds(including the best of HA and GvG guilds) to understand basic game mechanics, and this discussion seems to indicate that understanding of basic game mechanics are not a requirement for success in HA. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 21:39, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * In addition, I would like to ask the same question, as well as your current guild's name and tag, since that's the best way to judge an HA player's prowess. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 21:41, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

Edru you fail to see the point. Im done this is a waste of my fucking time, have fun in GvG and if i ever see you in HA (doubt it) ill pwn you with Orison =P 71.243.2.94 21:48, 1 September 2007 (CEST)
 * RoF is better at a certain spec of prot, then Orison in almost all ways. If you don't believe me; then ask Ensign or even Tommy. They will tell you the exact same thing, except probably more in a "Duh nub" fashion. I gaurentee you. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:40, 2 September 2007 (CEST)


 * By saying that you are just making yourself look stupid. Once again, this is not a GvG article. And Edru, if you want to know my Rank pm me ingame under Imperial Demon. Radiant 12:35, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Ensign and Tommy aren't exclusively GvGers, yano? Although, I don't think iQ or QQ has played HA much since it became a joke(or perhaps their not playing it is part of the reason why it's a joke). Tommy is also quite probably the single best monk in the entire game. Ensign quite probably understands the game more thoroughly than anyone else. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 19:25, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * HA is a joke? fuck you you are such a dick head &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Echo Ftw (contribs).
 * Okay, let me put it this way, then: Do you think that a gametype that can and has been won repeatedly at its top levels of play by teams composed entirely of touch rangers is a serious competitive gametype? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 22:12, 3 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Not trying to disprove your point or anything edru, but that has happened in GvG and beat iQ... <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 22:14, 3 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Touch Ranger ganks? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 22:25, 3 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Oh my. This is all rather unnecesarry. You need to accept that RoF is the single best, most versitile monk skill in the game. Orison is a minor heal, with the sole bonus that it can be spammed. The need to spam a heal is not a good sign.
 * The builds people run in HA are in no way reflective of what is good. HA is simply a stepping stone between TA and GvG.
 * Orison has NOTHING over RoF. RoF is FAR more efficient, has a quicker cast, the same cost and recharge.
 * Just because channeling and dangerous positioning in HA allows you to spam Orison all day long, and that has a decent effect on the teams survivability does not make it a good skill. RoF played well is far far better. [[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets]]<font color="Blue">Ibreaktoilets 22:23, 3 September 2007 (CEST)

Umm... Umm... How about maybe, just maybe we look at other skills other than RoF and Orison that could go there... Please don't hurt me... -To remain anonymous-
 * Why consider a skill other than RoF at all for the slot? Arguably one of the best skills in the game, and perhaps the best monk skill in the game. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 01:36, 9 September 2007 (CEST)
 * 99% of monks running Orison and Seed is a pretty good reason, tbh. It's HA meta. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:12, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I'll ask Cheese, because tbh I am not sure. I hate HA. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 04:20, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I think all you need to do is open up observer mode. Pretty much every LoD monk, regardless of 3-man or 2-man uses Orison. Regardless of whether RoF is superior or not, Orison is the metagame right now. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:22, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I am lazy, and that requires me opening GW. Besides, I might watch a bad team, and I don't care about what the bad people use. They suck. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 04:24, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I infuse alot, and i only run orison on a three monk backline.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 06:43, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
 * HALELUJA SOMEONE SAW THE HOLY LIGHT 83.86.19.209 08:00, 17 September 2007 (CEST)
 * In a 3 monk backline is even less use for orison, since you just use 2 gifts + lod/woh/whatever the meta is after the monk buffs = full health. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  16:16, 11 November 2007 (CET)

cleanup
Equipment, usage and counters needs clearing up. Needs to be put into proper English, elaborated some, and needs MOAR LINKZ! <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 06:02, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

I hate linking, I'm too lazy =P. --Hikari 02:38, 4 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Be not a miser who, being very rich in time, hoards it needlessly within his dwelling. Instead, distribute your wealth as you can, and you shall find true happiness. - Vermain 08:05, 17 September 2007 (CEST)

Blasphemy! --Hikari 02:43, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

Why the hell is this in AB?
srsly, party heals are pretty fail there. &mdash; T<tt>e</tt>h <tt>U</tt>b<tt>e</tt>r <tt>P</tt>w<tt>n</tt>z<tt>e</tt>r  08:50, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Nerfed
move this to the nerfed build section... LoD sucks now.