User talk:Shogunshen

First before Skakid. I can cheat too :O -- Guild of  Deals  20:24, 30 January 2008 (EST)

First &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  20:02, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Notice: The above users are fags. Engage at your discretion. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mafaraxas (contribs).

First, before the inevitable ninjaing. Lord Belar 19:55, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Turd. – Ichigo 724  20:03, 30 January 2008 (EST)


 * second...? --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] Mafaraxas 20:16, 30 January 2008 (EST)

Eh?
Where's the rampage? I expected a rampage. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  21:11, 30 January 2008 (EST)
 * Once there's a decent enough lull in school work, don't worry. -Shen 21:12, 30 January 2008 (EST)
 * I misread that word (lull). Been spending too much time on PvX... -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 21:37, 30 January 2008 (EST)
 * Gz. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  13:17, 31 January 2008 (EST)

Gratz, you deserve it.Bob fregman 17:11, 31 January 2008 (EST)

gfg mini-rampage &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  17:42, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * The Other section is significantly smaller. -Shen 19:22, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * wasn't mini tbh.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 23:17, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Your advice please
Help would be appreciated.&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 20:53, 31 January 2008 (EST)

When on a rampage with the "remove vote" button
Make sure you click on the history button for the build you are putting into trash. Many builds that were previously listed as Great/Good (primarily from way back on GWiki) should be archived and not trashed. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 02:12, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks so much for bringing that to my attention. I'll be sure to archive some builds. -Shen 15:51, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * So you cleaned up after me... -Shen 16:14, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Oh. My. God.
I saw the delete spree. I sware, I'm pretty sure I laid a Fruit in my Loom just seeing that. You did some epic raping there. /internetfive. -- Guild of  Deals  10:27, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Stop already
Don't edit the Template: Featured_builds if you don't know how. Don't add Tested builds to Untested category, it's a bit stupid, don't you think? &mdash; Abedeus   13:18, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm trying to get a Great build rated Great. -Shen 13:26, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Well don't. Do what the hell you should be doing rather than trying to make the community do what they evidently don't think is true. Look at shove spike, it has counters, but a team playing it well can get 40+ consecs easily. But do you see me fucking about trying to get it into great because Goth and a few others run it well? Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)·(contributions) 13:47, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * That was sort of a bad allusion. -Shen 13:48, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Untested builds go in untested. Even I don't do dumb stuff like that to get builds vetted great when they aren't. Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)·(contributions) 13:51, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm lost; what build would you be referring too? -Shen 13:51, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Archive:R/D Ebon Dust Arrow Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)·(contributions) 13:53, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * I voted it good. I removed Frvwfr's vote so that it was only 4 votes. So I featured it. -Shen 13:55, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * The build is really useless against meta atm, a good drawer can keep blind off the warrior or ranger, a good anti-melee necro (Or WoD necro in case of modified meta for balanced) can keep the ranger from spreading conditions anywhere near fast, and BSurge or D/P spreads blind faster and better, with the exception of unblockables from called shot. And furthermore, one skill on its own can rape the ranger, which is currently FIRM meta. Faintheartedness. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 14:04, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * To be honest I don't see what you're getting at. I tell you you were wrong in calling me stupid because I supposedly put up a tested build as untested. Then you put a trashed build up on the main page as untested. Then your next comment lost me, sorry.-<font color="Black">Shen 14:21, 3 February 2008 (EST)

That trash build got trashed AFTER it was moved to untested. Builds that you put were tested BEFORE you had put into untested. You still don't get it? &mdash; Abedeus   14:55, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Read up 4 comments. -<font color="Black">Shen 14:56, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * So next time remove the Tested tag, if you don't know how, write it on the build talk page. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 05:57, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Which I do believe I did here. -<font color="Black">Shen 07:30, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Debate over
Sure, it sucks, but your vote is actually pretty damn wrong.

' ''Extremely slow chain; in PvE, not many foes are going to have so much health as to require such a damaging chain. Inferior to Fox's Promise Sin in every way. Fails to function.'' '

Chain is about the same speed of a SP sin, one hex is cast, one skill used, and you have 4 attack skills being pumped out 50% faster. You say about not many foes having much health, but what happens when you start to face lvl 28 mobs like shiro'ken? Also, with such a damaging chain, you can guarantee a kill, guarantee your energy gain and guarantee you can keep getting off your chain time and time again. It doesn't fail to function, and even if it is inferior to fox's promise, a 0-0-0 is not a good rating for a build that does work, albeit not brilliantly. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 13:41, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * If you're facing lvl 28 mobs, you've got other people on your team. -<font color="Black">Shen 13:43, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * That's true. But if you are up against lots of mobs that hit fucking high AoE, half your team is centred around keeping you all alive. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 13:48, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Also, especially in EotN/Hard mode, I can rattle off cases where you will end up being overrun by huge numbers of mobs. AoE would work extremely well there, I admit, but in cases where you can rapidly flick from target to target, racking up huge numbers, it would work. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 13:55, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Well, PvE Spikers suck, end of story. If you fail to kill the enemy within AP's time, then your a 45 second burden on your team. PvE Assassins are about quick, spammable chains, not long, unreliable, lengthy ones. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  16:31, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * That one's true. But it's still not EPIC fail, and isn't 0-0-0 worthy. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 18:06, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * just run DB/MS sin in pve tbh Infested  Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 18:50, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Commnets on ratings
Hello!

I would kindly ask you to make sure that your comments in ratings include more then 3-4 words and is something even newby can understand. Please don't use "hell, fuck, shit, suck, lame, idiot, stupid, +++" and such words in your comment. Please avoid comments like "OMFG 1337sh1t RA/TA r0(0c|<s, n00b's suck".

I am not saying that you do make such comments - I just hope that you will understand grade of responsibility when it comes to comments written by build master.

Thank you for understanding. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  20:45, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * no u. -<font color="Black">Shen 20:51, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Speling and, gramer, Skakid? <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 21:34, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * It was Gcard's post on Unexist's talk page a while ago. -<font color="Black">Shen 21:35, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Are you planning to do anything with that, or can it be deleted? <font color="#CD2626">&not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 17:20, 7 February 2008 (EST)
 * You're on the hunt for blood? --Wyvern 17:41, 7 February 2008 (EST)
 * Wizardboy has to eat you know. Every know and then he climbs out of his cave to feast. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  19:22, 7 February 2008 (EST)
 * Delete it please. -<font color="Black">Shen 20:01, 7 February 2008 (EST)

hey
^. <font color="Brown">Punjab 13:15, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Iliekfrenzy.jpg, haha. Do you have an MSN? -<font color="Black">Shen 13:16, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * yeh, but i never get on. [[Image:Iliekfrenzy.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Brown">Punjab 13:17, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * How about an in game name? I've gotta run right now, but just for whenever. -<font color="Black">Shen 13:19, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Punjab Prince is my PvE char, but mostly my PvP char (one i use most) is I Hart Izzy. [[Image:Iliekfrenzy.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Brown">Punjab 13:20, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Shen, what's your IGN? - <font color="Black">Unexist  15:57, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Shen Noodles. -<font color="Black">Shen 16:01, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * OMAR GOSH NOW I GOTTA STALK SHEN!! --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  17:43, 13 February 2008 (EST)
 * have a troll unguent -- Infested Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 17:44, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Gratz.
Gratz on your BM'ship. Or are you one for a longer time? :D <font color="black" face="arialbold">Adr <font color="purple" face="arialbold">iaa <font color="black" face="arialbold">nz 05:43, 16 February 2008 (EST)
 * You're a little late. He's been one for sometime now. :O --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  10:48, 16 February 2008 (EST)

If You Can...
Get on MSN. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  15:07, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Clarification
Hey, first let me say im not mad or w/e, just a little surious. In the "other" section of pve only general builds, u gave reapers vow build an extremely low score and only said: "Zealous Vow is a terrible elite." Well, ive run this build and in practice it works extremely well at energy management and damage output. However, since eternal aura ill agree there are better builds, but simply because you have a somewhat frowned-upon elite, doesn't mean that it doesn't suit the function of the build. Please clarify your vote or change it. I think the build deserves at least good status, considering that the build is extremely viable, albeit not as effective as other avatar oriented builds. Thanks! =) Gabe 22:26, 16 February 2008 (EST) Gabe
 * I've not seen the build (providing links is good, for next time), but the problem with Zealous Vow is that it does nothing you can't accomplish by simply not spamming attacks. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:52, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * My first build was a Zealous Vow Dagger Derv. I wonder if someone could pull up its old talk page.... -<font color="Black">Shen 09:25, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * Wasn't there something like that created and vetted more recently? Or did it get WELL'd? --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 12:43, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * Honestly, Dervishes have Zealous Renewal for e-management and if you want an elite that manages energy, AoL (+30 energy) or Onslaught are better alternatives. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  13:05, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * +30energy is energy management now? – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 14:39, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * As much as estorage is. <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 17:27, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * I agree with ichigo. A net gain of energy can be spammed dry, if you don't use discretion. This is one of the advantages of zealous vow that i was talking about. It basicaly allows you to spam with much less caution. But, at the end of the day, this is pve, and i can see how things like low energy at the end of a battle can be somewhat dismissable. But still, this build provides an alternative to avatars and allows spamming of skills. In fact, if you move wind prayers to 14 i believe, the energy gain become 5, meaning you can spam 5 energy skills for no cost, and 10 energy skills for half the cost, and one auto attack replenishes all energy expended. I think this should be rated good because it is viable and offers an alternative to avatars. An underused elite doesn't warrant a bad build. Thats why i think shogunshen should explain his vote better or change it. And honestly, have you tested this build in practice? I have plenty of times and like it a lot. But like i said, this isn't a big deal, just trying to save still-useful builds, one at a time =P Gabe 18:42, 17 February 2008 (EST) Gabe
 * I never said ZR and AoL are energy management. -<font color="Black">Shen 18:45, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * They still are, atleast for PvE. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  19:21, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * +energy is never energy management :/ -- Infested Hydralisk  [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 19:29, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * I believe the point is that battles don't last long enough to really drain your larger energy pool in most of PvE, so in that sense they can count as e-management (for PvE). --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 02:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Zealous Vow hogs your elite slot. Taken singularly, that's a reason not to use it. Energy management is fine for dervs, what with mysticism, Attacker's insight, and an inherent four pips. The energy gain from ZV cannot be put to much use with the array of skills avaliable to derv primaries, with the exception of Dwayna's Touch. For Dwayna's Touch to have much use, at least one other enchantment needs to hog a space in the skill bar. The 5 energy per hit necessitates multiple hit attacks of a sort, greatly limiting weapon choice. For it to even balance out 4 negative pips, 14 wind prayers is necessary, hogging attributes and runes from more worthwhile attributes like scythe mastery. On top of that, it must be removed manually to prevent a complete halting of energy in the lulls between battles in PvE and AB's. The self-heal from Dwayna's is decent, but not altogether worth such a high investment. The more enchantments a derv stacks, the more liable it is to enchantment removal. -<font color="Black">Shen 20:21, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Zealous Striker talk
See above link. -- Armond Warblade 02:18, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks Armond, but Wizardboy helped me out. You're going to have to delete it for me. Sorry for the trouble. -<font color="Black">Shen 09:37, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Ohnoes, five clicks. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 14:09, 18 February 2008 (EST)

D/A Aura of The Scythe''' (Your vote):Pious Assault/Augury of Death. Not a hard choice. Bad snare. Shadowsteps are good.'''... what do u mean :P, only 1 form of DW on the main bar. Snare isnt bad considering you have all survivor and vitae + Sup vigor. You dont have to revote, but you could if u want to. I just didn't know what you meant.<font color="black" face="arial bold">Cross xXx Fire <font color="green" face="arial bold">(contribs)   15:49, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'll revote, Pious Assault isn't feasible on a build depending on enchantments. But Siphon Speed>Crippling victory. And Shadow Steps are good. -<font color="Black">Shen 15:59, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * Ty for the idea ill use siphon instead[[image:Companionship.jpg‎|19px]]<font color="black" face="arial bold">Cross xXx Fire <font color="green" face="arial bold">(contribs)   16:18, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Are you the awesome person...
...who can wipe the votes off as we'll be putting it back into Trial and make a new and improved version? Talk-page archival would be appreciated as well. Kthnxbye  Seb2net   (Talk)  19:35, 22 February 2008 (EST)
 * Left a note on the admin noticeboard. Talk page archival isn't really necessary. -<font color="Black">Shen 19:39, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Your rating removing..
I just wonder on the build  U have removed all the good votes liek: #1

Civix  Character: 4 Removed:

Nice build. Love Warmongers, I don't quite understand Essence Strike but ok. Good secondary healer

Reason: No contribs. Removed by: Shogunshen

#2

Chao Lingchen Character: 5 Last edit: 20:31, 17 Feb 2008 (EST) Removed:

After testing it, it seems this build is effective in both PvP and PvE.

Reason: No way this is meant for PvE. Removed by: Shogunshen

#3 Character: 5

Removed:

This build is my favorite. Oh Rawrawr, it's called not spamming your energy too much. You're a secundairy healer.

Reason: Please provide a reason. Removed by: Shogunshen Yours :)-
 * But liek all thoose bad rated

#1 Character: 1,4

Shogunshen (Build Master) Last edit: 20:31, 17 Feb 2008 (EST)

OoS beats this.

If someone else had wroote it you would removed it..

#2 Character: 2

Sardaukar Blackfang Last edit: 22:25, 25 Oct 2007 (EST)

Could be better IMO. OoS build works well.

-

He isnt giving any specific contributions...


 * Just because YOU Dont like the build doesnt say that you can remove all the good ratings and say that they dont have any contribution's, when liek half of the bad ratings doesnt and u havent removed it :/
 * Thou the do actually not have contributions:P But neither have yours or the bad rated, so plz ppl have different sight builds its not u who makes the call if it Really bad, or really good:/ Massive  [[Image:Spotless_Soul.jpg‎|50x19px]] 16:39, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 * Contributions = # of edits on the wiki. As for the other removals, the build indeed isn't for pve (lol splinter) and a build being a "favorite" isn't a valid reason for a vote.– Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 16:43, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 * Actually, it is him who makes the call if it is really bad or really good because he is a Build Master. If you have a disagreement, toss it up on the Admin Noticeboard and get some input from other BMs and an admin or two. --71.229 16:44, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 * Wan;s the whole pint of BMs for them being biased? to help maintain the wiki by getting rid of crap builds and keeping good builds etc. (i thought that was the intent behind BMs anyway) so if so he's doing nothing wrong, even if it wasn't there wasn't anything wrong with what he's done. (but like 71.229 said, if you still think oterhwsie the admin noticeboards your friend.) <B><font color="#4F94CD">PheNaxKian </B> (<font color="Red">T /c) [[Image:Phenaxkian_sig_phoenix.jpg|19px]] 16:47, 27 February 2008 (EST)

I saw you and a few others hated the old BiP Necro, so I made a remake of it that covers all the bases. Your thoughts are appreciated... Unless they suck. -- Guild of  Deals  11:20, 2 March 2008 (EST)

MSN
^? Rawrawr  17:20, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * MSN IS FOR THE WEAK, SIR! ONLY PROS USE YAHOO! --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  17:20, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * see above Rawrawr  17:23, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Shogunshen2010@yahoo.com -<font color="Black">Shen 18:41, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * And rawr, PvXwiki:Build Masters is ftw ^_^ <font color="#CD2626">&not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 19:16, 3 March 2008 (EST)
 * Shen uses Yahoo! He is not weak. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  15:42, 4 March 2008 (EST)

Congratulations
Congratulations! Your PvP team submission to the Guild Wars Limited Contest, was one of two winning entries! You'll be contacted shortly with information regarding the prize. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  01:07, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * Grats. :> --71.229.204.25 02:24, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * Grats:) ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  07:07, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * Grats! Zubey 18:05, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Yes! -<font color="Black">Shen 17:25, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * What was it, anyway? --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  17:32, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * A Razer mouse. --[[Image:Mafaraxas_sig.jpg|click moar]] <font color="black" face="calibri">Mafaraxas 19:17, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * I think he meant the entry, not the prize :P <font color="#CD2626">&not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( sysop ) 21:48, 5 March 2008 (EST)
 * This was his entry God  box   12:24, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Enjoying the mouse yet or still waiting like me? Racthoh 02:51, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It arrived like a week or two ago for me. ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  03:30, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

...
Don't mind me, just passing through. <font color="#033361">Railin 15:13, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

account
Do you share it (or have you sold it?). I saw the name in halls and felt like an idiot when it wasn't you =X &mdash;  Skakid  20:40, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Which name, exactly? I jump accounts, it's confusing. -<font color="Black">Shen 20:52, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Bah Humbug &mdash;  Skakid  20:59, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It'd be Bah Hummbug you're looking for. -<font color="Black">Shen 14:28, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Lolskakid. <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 23:05, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I pm'd him when I was facing in HA, and he whoru'd me &mdash;  Skakid  23:06, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

Delete
I did not see any thing in "ARCHIVE" about removing your own comments. --Awsome austin123 20:06, 16 April 2008 (EDT)


 * As per PvX:ARCHIVE see the section enitled "editing talk pages" then under "only edit your own comments" 2nd paragraph down. Users who, for any reason, wish to retract a statement of their own should not blank that statement but rather strike it by enclosing the text with ...., because the edit will appear as vandalism on both Recent Changes and Watchlists.
 * hope thta's cleared it up for you =)(and yes i undid you removing this section as per archive =p). <B><font color="#4F94CD">PheNaxKian </B> (<font color="Red">T /c) [[Image:Phenaxkian_sig_phoenix.jpg|19px]] 06:36, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

your thoughts?
Wondering if i could get your thoughts on this matter. =). <B><font color="#4F94CD">PheNaxKian </B> (<font color="Red">T /c) 11:46, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Da
is hero compatible now, and Dismember is a variant, if that makes it better...--Relyk 20:02, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

HB
Are you good? Cuz there is a match, Beastin Shen. Hmm... 21:57, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Completely diff shen. The one you're talking about has slipped a lot lately too, he's down around 55, used to be to 3 or 4--Goldenstar 22:15, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh.  22:17, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Your vote makes no sense...There isn't SoL (Seed of Life/Spear of Lightning?) or OoB (Offering of Blood I'm guessing). Spear of Lightning was in one of the builds earlier, but was removed. There has never been OoB in any of the builds. And your statement of "needs more damage" is sort of wrong--here's proof. We'll say both frontliners use Executioner's Strike (as it will be spammed), the chainers use VA/SoF, the Expel para uses SoF, and the Singer uses SoF. This is completely plausible, as all of the attacks mentioned will be, more or less, spammed. So let's take a look at the damage output...We'll say all attacks will land in a 5 second window. And I won't include any inscription bonuses. We'll say r3 Kurz/Lux, r5 Vanguard, and r5 Deldrimor (all are reasonable).
 * Frontliners hit for a base of 15 damage (which is reasonable). +34 from ES. +10 from OoP. +15 from GDW, which gives a total of 74 damage. x2, since there are 2:
 * 148 total damage from both frontliners, combined.


 * Chainer 1 hits for a base of 20. +16 from VA. +10 from EBSoH. +10 from OoP.
 * 56 total damage from Chainer 1.


 * Chainer 2 hits for a base of 20. +24 from SoF. +10 from EBSoH. +10 from OoP. +15 from GDW.
 * 79 total damage from Chainer 2.


 * Expel Para hits for a base of 20. +24 from SoF. +10 from EBSoH. +10 from OoP.
 * 64 total damage from the Expel Para.


 * Singer hits for a base of 20. +24 from SoF. +10 from EBSoH. +10 from OoP.
 * 64 total damage from the Expel Para.


 * Total damage, give or take, in a 5 second window: 411 damage
 * Note: This isn't including if the BiPara used Wild Throw also. This also isn't counting any conditions (burning, bleeding) or inscription bonuses. If Anthem of Envy was used, the damage would be a lot higher. Same if "GFtE!" was used, the damage could have been a lot higher.

And this 411 damage combo can be used every 8 seconds. Plus there are the frontliners that are constantly spamming all their attacks. This can easily roll a group. Especially if the paras hit for the high end of their weapon damage.

So, at the least, you need to change your vote since there isn't SoL or OoB in any of the builds. ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡ ͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡ I͡n͡f͡i͡d͡e͡l  ̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲| ̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı__̡͌l̡*  16:17, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Numbers don't mean much. It's much able to improve. With all those chants, you could take aggressive refrain on the frontliners and slot a useful elite. -<font color="Black">Shen 20:59, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Archive talk:A/R PvE Promise Assassin
You wanted a third opinion... --Sneakysmith12 09:03, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Shen's currently inactive. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  09:06, 20 June 2008 (EDT)