Archive talk:D/A Shadow Spiker

Discuss. Swiftslash \\  (contributions  * sandbox ) 04:50, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Rending. [[Image:BaineImg.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  04:55, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Touch? Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 04:57, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * My build was here first, gtfo! [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]Dark Morphon  (contribs)  05:51, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Was posted before changes to your build. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 05:53, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Yeh but my build is still better, merge? [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]Dark Morphon  (contribs)  06:08, 25 January 2008 (EST)
 * Actually this can spike every 15 sec, opposed to 25, which is about 50% as as often. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 05:06, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * Technically, because of AI's 15 second recharge, both builds only have a downtime of 15 seconds. Shadow Prison is not necessarily required; but you may need to pick targets more carefully on a non-SP spike I mean, considering the spike (minus set-up time) is only 3 seconds, and you only need 2.26 to land the last attack, you won't need a snare 100% of the time. LavaEdge324 20:00, 28 January 2008 (EST)
 * Well, I think the Dark Prison variant is best at AB and the D dagger variant best in the other areas because you don't need an interrupt in AB. [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]Dark Morphon  (contribs)  05:51, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * DP is gud if you want to have a shadowstep+snare for every spike. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 12:07, 29 January 2008 (EST)

Pious Assault RC's every 12 sec and AI every 15 so having a shadowstep/snare to match those recharges is better than an interrupt. But meh, community decides. Swiftslash \\  (contributions  * sandbox ) 06:00, 26 January 2008 (EST)

I've run it switching out Heart of Fury + Attacker's Insight for Faithful Intervention and Watchful Intervention, as those are good heals, and Watchful can target other allies. Works fairly well. Hide-And-Seek 11:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)


 * AI is the whole point behind the build. HoF is somewhat optional but speeds up the spike. Also FI and WI are sucky heals. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (contributions  * sandbox ) 11:02, 26 January 2008 (EST)


 * Leave Shadow prison to assassins. 25 second recharge ftl[[Image:DestinyOfKiestsig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">♪Destiny Of Kiest♪  (<font color="Darkblue">talk / pvxcontribs ) 19:35, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * That's why you have Dark prison so you can spike every 15 sec. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 08:55, 27 January 2008 (EST)


 * I dont understand the need for dervishes to invest in Deadly Arts to provide a snare + shadowstep.  Crippling Victory FTW[[Image:DestinyOfKiestsig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">♪Destiny Of Kiest♪  (<font color="Darkblue">talk / pvxcontribs ) 19:05, 28 January 2008 (EST)
 * Obs a good D/A pair in HA sometime and you'll understand. --71.229.204.25 19:09, 28 January 2008 (EST)
 * Shadowstep+spike is owns. Why did you think SP sins were meta? Also, shadowstep+snare+spike = More owns. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 12:07, 29 January 2008 (EST)
 * SP sins were meta in 6v6 HA for a short period of time, back when they had the super-combo that this build doesn't have. RA and AB don't have "meta"'s. No one runs this in TA. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:17, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * SP sins stayed popular and effective even after the first nerfs, and were definetly meta in TA. Also I never said this was meta. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 06:28, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Delete it.
^.-- Shadow sin  16:17, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * No. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 16:30, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, or stick on as a variant. Zyke 21:16, 3 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yes.-- Shadow sin [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 01:12, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * No. This got vetted better tbh, in that case that build should be merged into this. You keep the most popular one, or so I thought. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:02, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * No, you dont, the other one got vetted first and the only reason this got vetted better is because bob and cheese like "Balancing", This should have never been voted on in the first place.-- Shadow sin  [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 13:47, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * This one was posted when the other had another bar than it does now. Those Rt/Mo Warmongers support builds got merged after a while and everyone was happy. I don't see why you would delete a build voted good, instead of just merging? Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 15:19, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * any time left to say no?--[[Image:InvertedSigBarrage.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Blue">The Noob Police 15:41, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * I find it easiest to just ignore everything shadowsin says.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 17:49, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * You know what, go ahead and ignore it cheese your vote makes no bloody sense after all Considering how you voted on the other build, based of the fact that SP on a non assassin class was baed. That being said, This build is not better than the other build so being such, should be judged to the standards of the other one, now that they are essentially the same with your recent changes so why is the "Other" Build not in "Good" -- Shadow sin [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 20:33, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Btw, That whole thing with the Warmongers support, caused a new member to quit and made Cedave leave too. So no everyone was not "Happy"-- Shadow sin [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 20:42, 4 February 2008 (EST)

If you leave cos of wikidrama you kinda fail tbh. Also still, you should vote on build not down it becuase it's much like another build (see for instance W/E shockaxe, W/D rend axe, W/A shadowaxe).

Also "this has no place on a TA team and no place on a HA team with the current meta. and just because it winz in RA means nothing". Neither of those points validate a 0-0-0 vote. Un-meta builds lose points in innovation, and not being fit for TA is just lies. It has a fast recharging, fast executed, strong spike. In a small arena like TA that can be very valuable. Swiftslash \\  (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 10:26, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * You know what, i'll be honest, mines a balance vote, it was originally a dupe vote, but now its a balance vote, know why? cuz over the course of a battle this will have energy problems, provided you dont want to be auto attacking for 15 seconds between spikes. Secondly Cheese's vote is overly high and contradictory to a vote on another D/A which was based on the fact that the build use SP on a non assassin class. By any means this build does not belong in great cuz its not great, The question is does it belong in other, or good? I say "Other" because there are much better builds out there than this, and this being a dupe of a build that was considered trash, i'd say it belongs in other.-- Shadow sin  [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 10:42, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * First of all, this doesn't have e-problems. It just doesn't. Second, balance votes are wrong. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:04, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * w/e, im really done with this, if you bothered to look i deleted my vote. I'm done.-- Shadow sin [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 11:07, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * ty. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 06:09, 10 February 2008 (EST)

So I herd
That shadowsteps are pretty imba. C/D? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  22:18, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Tillz you shadow step a bit too far away from ur team then you go boom and diez. -- Shadow sin [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 22:19, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * Don't be bad then =P &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  22:22, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * But but but.... pissing people off on RA is fun D:. Anyway still doesnt belong in HA'z bring a tree tbh.-- Shadow sin  [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 22:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
 * SP derv doesn't, but I obsed a duo of D/As running Dark Prison and Wounding/Reaper's respectively a while back. Pretty impressive when they did it right. --71.229 11:09, 5 February 2008 (EST)

What is the difference between this and [] this?
 * Nothing.-- Shadow sin [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 22:02, 5 February 2008 (EST)
 * Second shadow step is what makes the diff tbh. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 02:28, 6 February 2008 (EST)
 * a second shadowstep isnt all that matters, a sin with attack chains can do more damage and condition inflicting like the SP sins. Pious assault isnt that good, as Impale can do more damage. I Am Jebus 19:39, 9 February 2008 (EST)
 * Pious assault is absolutely amazing now, impale has a one second cast, SP sins are garbage outside of HB ( Unless you're running wierd bars like [Me] did ) and RA. Anyhow, I honestly like Archive:D/A Beguiling Assault better for RA. I use a slightly different setup than the atts and bar given though. ( Feigned Neutrality lolol ) Hikari 02:22, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Agreed, Pious Assault just wins now, especially now since it was buffed to a 3/4th sec cast it goes perfect in a spike build. Shaft 05:17, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * 3/4 is nerf. Used2be 1/2. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  06:31, 10 February 2008 (EST)

I take back what i said b4 about this being inferior to SP sins, this rox in PvP RA. However, this could use selfheal. I use faithful intervention, but Natural Healing could be used. I Am Jebus 10:51, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * You don't need a self heal in RA, learn to kite.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 10:53, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * selfheals are a must in RA where u dont no if theres a healer or not. I Am Jebus 10:55, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Read 2 lines up. You don't need a self heal in RA.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 10:57, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * If you don't get a healer you won't get 5 wins anyways so you might as well lose. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:00, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * I get loads of 5s w/o healers. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  11:04, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Ya, i agree with Skakid, i got 12 consecutive wins with a sin(me), an ele, and 2 paras. I Am Jebus 11:06, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah I'm still thinking old glad pts. It was harder to get 10 cons w/o healer. Still "need self heal for RA" is bs. I almost never take it and I find it easy to farm glads neways. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:07, 10 February 2008 (EST)

lol jebus first you say you need self heal, then you say you don't :D Swiftslash \\   (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:07, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Attrb spread
Might need a change, discuss here. Swiftslash \\  (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:08, 10 February 2008 (EST)

no, swiftslash, i had selfheal in my team of a sin, an ele, and 2 paras. thats how i didnt die. I Am Jebus 11:09, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Why so much myst? 12+1+1scythe//11+1myst//6shadow imo, break for 3 attacks on insight & 5sec on sp. – Ichigo 724  23:09, 16 February 2008 (EST)
 * Lol first you say "why so much myst?" then put 3 more myst in your att spread than in the build. though im pretty sure you meant wind instead of myst.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 01:44, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Myst was originally for HoF, Energy gain and maybe Pious Haste/Fury. Also PA removes AI so having it last 4 attacks is pretty much worthless. Swiftslash \\  (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 08:38, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * orite, i'd stick the points in deadly in that case. And yes, cheese, I did mean wind. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 20:55, 17 February 2008 (EST)
 * Maybe 12 scythe, 10 deadly, 6 myst (hits energy break, not that you really need but is good if you face e-denial since ending AI will give e for eremites), 6 wind? Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:50, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * 12+1+1scythe (durr), 11 deadly (as much as possible) 5+1 (+energy, as you mentioned), 4+1 wind (2*-10) imo – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 20:28, 18 February 2008 (EST)
 * You want to avoid minor runes for moar hp though, 1 sec extra on SP (not DP) is not worth loss of HP imo. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 10:18, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Meh, D's have +25 anyway. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:19, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * Triggering CV is what makes this deadly tbh. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 10:19, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * The change of +10 hp making the diff surely isn't any bigger than the chance of the sec longer SP making it. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:21, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * 20 HP actually. Shrug, idc really but SP is already at 7 sec which should be more than enuff. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 11:08, 19 February 2008 (EST)
 * I don't really see a point to changing atts unless your running natural healing.-- AESTHE  T  I  C 

I use this build with 16 scythe, u dnt need the extra 75 hp, u do need more damage:p. awesomesauce omgbbq wtfcake build, malicious strike does massive damage also *hint* -- Close Impact 14:02, 21 February 2008 (EST)
 * You do need the extra HP tbh. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 14:40, 21 February 2008 (EST)
 * Less HP = less Chilling Victory. Zerak-Tul 17:23, 21 February 2008 (EST)
 * Having -75hp means less chance to trigger Chilling Victory, which means you do less damage overall. --[[Image:scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue / criticise / complain)  09:47, 23 February 2008 (EST)
 * Agreed. Besides, melee fighters shouldnt put up superior runes in any scenario besides 55-ing/105-ing/130-ing. I Am Jebus 18:41, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Archived
Definitely needs to be archived. With your deadly arts, shadow prison lasts like 3 secs and dark prison like 1.<font color="goldenrod" face="arial bold">←Crossfire Is Buff 19:16, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * If it needs to be archived it's cos of PA nerf. DP and SP still last 4 and 5 sec. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 09:52, 7 March 2008 (EST)


 * 4 seconds isnt worth an elite.[[image:Stoneflesh Aura.jpg‎|21px]]<font color="goldenrod" face="arial bold">←Crossfire Is Buff 14:49, 8 March 2008 (EST)