Archive talk:N/A Toxic Chill Spiker

Checked and Reviewed
For Viability. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 16:24, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

PvE Variant
Why is there a PvE variant in a PvP build? Swiftslash \\  03:42, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Unreal Havoc, I RB'ed your edits because your build is much different from the one already vetted. Personally, I think it is an inferior variant, but if you would like to try to get it vetted, you may do so on a separate build article. When you write that article, ensure that it follows our Style & Formatting guides (i.e. no first person references). Also, please try to minimize the number of edits you make to a page by using the 'Show Preview' button, located just to the right of the 'Save Page' button. - Krowman    03:47, 28 June 2007 (EDT)


 * Noted, thanks for the advice, I'm still new to all this editing stuff so I'm sure it will come in handy. One thing however, don't knock it until you try it, you might just be surprised. :) --Unreal Havoc 04:20, 28 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Ok, thanks for co-operating. I posted on the talk page of your build. I will delete the one that you blanked then, yes? - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   04:25, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Isn't this just a variant of the Toxic Death build? 72.211.238.37 21:19, 30 June 2007 (CEST)
 * I believe that one is for pressure, this is for spike. --NYC Elite 21:24, 30 June 2007 (CEST)


 * Toxic Death also has a spike variant down on the bottom, which looks very similar to this one, take out the disrupting dagger(and add Parasitic bond) and u have the same build. 72.211.238.37 21:35, 30 June 2007 (CEST)
 * Toxic Death sucks however. Augury should be on the main bar imo. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 22:06, 30 June 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah. Can't go /A for spikes and leave out Aug in most cases. --NYC Elite 22:42, 30 June 2007 (CEST)
 * Then shouldn't Toxic Death be removed, or placed as a variant under this build? It seems redundant to have both, especially, if according to you both, Toxic Death sucks. 72.211.238.37 08:06, 1 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I never liked the Toxic Death Build. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 23:03, 1 July 2007 (CEST)

Suggestion
Make disrupting dagger optional, and place in options for better energy management, since this spike is quite energy intensive for a necro. Napalm Flame  ^_^ (talk)·(contributions) 02:01, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

No such thing as E-management on a spiker. Besides, energy is not bad. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 02:10, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

SoLS + Soul Reaping is generally plenty of energy for a necro. --Hikari 10:38, 8 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Not always, so I use consume corpse instead of disrupting mostly in RA. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 15:52, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

Been using this build in RA for a long time. The proper build is: Augury of Death, Toxic Chill, Signet of Toxic Shock, Deathly Chill, Dancing Daggers, Deadly Paradox, Consume Corspe, Resurrection Signet. This makes the recharge for the skill bar (6, 5, 7.5, 5, 2.5, 10, 0, N/A). It is also in the correct spam order as you want to Shock them before condition can be removed. Dancing daggers also adds more damage then disrupting, and you can spam it every 2.5 seconds. Use consume corpse to get enough energy to repeat combo every 7.5 seconds. 'Nuf said. --Kal A Sini 66.30.142.182 01:19, 18 July 2007 (CEST)
 * While an effective variant, I'm not convinced that it is "proper" in the most strict sense of the word - it all depends on your playing style. Sure, the recharge and damage of Dancing Daggers makes it a brutal skill if you want some more spiking power, and something to spam with. However, if you're good with interrupts, Disrupting Dagger after Augury goes off can be the difference between your spike and someone catching it. I can't count how many self-heals and Res Sigs I've prevented that way, and it gives you a way to deal with things like Backfire: preventing it from happening in the first place.--SoraMitsukai 09:28, 17 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Thank you, you have a brain. I congratulate you. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 03:01, 18 July 2007 (CEST)

If it were up to me, I would place a variant using Deadly Paradox instead of Disrupting Dagger for obvious reasons.

But the interrupt can be crucial in many situations, especially in RA/TA, where 1 well timed interrupt can mess up a player completely for a period of time or help in the killing of the opposing team's healer. Or at least stop an action which could lead to the downfall of your team. Sandtrap(talk)

as a variant of this build, i did

Rising Bile -> Toxic Chill -> Vile Miasma -> Signet of Toxic Shock -> Taste of Pain -> Bitter Chill -> Siphon Speed -> Signet of Res

i found it worked better than the one in use. the problem with augury of death is that, even for experienced duelers, its risky to use and siphon speed can be more useful. fundamentally speaking, augury of death puts you closer to your enemy while siphon speed can take you away from your enemy if needed. since we're already using death magic, Rising Bile is an excellent candidate to start off with a hex. after all the spiking going on (while using bitter chill / toxic chill for residual spiking) he's likely to run away. more importantly, back to his party.

so in a happy world, with a good amount of death magic he just spiked his entire party for 120 which is often enough to kill the target or atleast a toxic chill/bitter chill or two away from a kill. siphon speed will be used to get away if needed, slow down target for your team, or simply in the place of rising bile while it recharges. finally, since you're using less energy and 12 deadly arts / 16 curses, signet of lost souls won't be as useful, so we upgrade to taste of pain for a quick large heal when needed. --Juice 21:11, 15 August 2007 (CEST)

oh and i forgot to mention, deadly wound is somewhat unnecessary on this build. --Juice 21:54, 15 August 2007 (CEST)

I really don't have a lot to say to this because in my honest opinion, Augury is an absolute must have in this build. So... aside from that... there really isn't anything more I can say. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  22:59, 15 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Seconded. You can't leave out Augury, or the build loses it's edge. 64.230.96.61 23:30, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

everybody hates necros
and it shows being how this is the only build you have?

oh wait necros got nerfed hardcore.

but they didn't even have any decent necro builds on old guildwiki either, did they - just like 20 million aura bomber builds.

but now that every other class got nerfed too, necros are fun to play again.

and this is the only build you guys have up? what a shame... Brian 15:03, 1 December 2007 (CET)

Don't criticize the site on flagrantly false premises. It really speaks to me that you've only been posting based on RA builds. <font color="Black"> Shen (contribs) 15:50, 1 December 2007 (CET)

no for real - it is a shame, and it really speaks to me that the only necro build you have up for RA being a signet spiker. It tells me that nobody here really knows how to play necro that well - that's what it says. and i bet if someone DID post a good necro build you'd bash on it and flame the person who posted it hardcore if they tried to explain anything to you. anwyays i have to get to bed. Brian 14:47, 8 December 2007 (CET)
 * You seem to like SS a lot, the SS build is rated under good for RA. Lord of all tyria 14:52, 8 December 2007 (CET)
 * did you stop and think it was because not alot of people play necro's and those that do hardly play them well.--Shadowsin 23:02, 9 December 2007 (CET)
 * Or maybe because necros suck without guaranteed healer support? --71.229 22:18, 8 January 2008 (EST)

You can kill turtlz mad eazy with this.

where's all the necro builds not sin signet spike?
this build does not compare to some of the real necro builds, for example some spiteful spirit. Brian 16:39, 5 December 2007 (CET)
 * "Monks don't DPS like a warrior." –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 16:48, 5 December 2007 (CET)
 * SS is kinda meh in PvP yeah it can be good "can" ...honestly brain stop bashing the state of necro builds on wiki if its so bad why dont you post some up, seem to think you got all the answers but I'm not seeing them. with modifications to your own play style this is a great build for many different play styles, I agree necro needs more builds on wiki...but why bash that in here and since anet seem to nerf anything necro thats slightly good (I'm surprised they haven't nerfed this beyond recognition yet)it makes people reluctant to post builds if its going to go meta and get nerfed.... 121.45.196.101 08:18, 27 December 2007 (EST)

Iron Palm
Please add iron palm to variants, can't believe it is not on there...  Lumpen α Ω ∞  18:57, 26 January 2008 (EST)
 * A caster spiker shouldnt have to get within melee range. [[image:IAmJebus_sig.jpg|20px]] I Am    *  Jebus  *  17:58, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Augury. Jamster 18:03, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I dont run with augury, ends up with me dead all the time. I bring self heal. [[image:IAmJebus_sig.jpg|20px]] I Am    *  Jebus  *  20:05, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Augury nerf
Big deal Y/N --71.229 19:26, 6 March 2008 (EST)


 * Y. [[Image:Iliekfrenzy.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Brown">Punjab 19:28, 6 March 2008 (EST)


 * Probably, with this being a solo spiker. The other problem arises when Deadly Paradox was nerfed as well. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:35, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * N. It was crap before, still is now. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 19:47, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * N, 20 sec recharge isnt that bad. [[image:IAmJebus_sig.jpg|20px]] I Am   *  Jebus  *  20:30, 6 March 2008 (EST)


 * N, Only 8 more seconds, still effective skill for spiking.- <font color="Red">Jak123X 21:34, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * Still works.Selket Shadowdancer 22:25, 6 March 2008 (EST)
 * N, I use Rising Bile instead of augury, its fun to watch retreating people die 202.124.127.38 23:25, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Not a problem at all. 8 seconds of recharge, could not stop this powerful spike.-Jax010 19:54, 7 March 2008 (EST)

Update (changed a counter)
Changed the counter note about Signet of Lost Souls: ...has no self heal unless there is "an ally on your team" with less then 50% health... to "a foe"--65.101.133.215 21:35, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Too Many Variants
Get rid of a few, I say only the skills which can be important to use (but without an obvious use) be left in or put a better explanation to some of the optional skills. --<font color="DarkCyan">Emeralddragon2 20:30, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
 * "Too many variants"? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:30, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

2 Major runes
Is terribad.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  03:02, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

ARCHIVE
This is a)Old b)Nerfed and c)Weak. Ran this today for lulz and didn't kill anything.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  10:25, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It does seem pretty suxxor for a spike. And who had the idea of two major runes and no heal in PvP? &not; Klump  eet   Enter my contest foo!  10:50, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * The author i guess. This is very old though, like a year or something. Author was DE, btw.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 10:50, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmmm, I'm still using this build in AB, its pretty fun. I switch a few skills though, Putrid Bile instead of Augury, Consume Corpse instead of Disrupting Dagger, and Dash/Syphon Speed instead of Res.  I think this build deserves to stick around, but if you think it is weak, can you suggest other fun necro builds for AB? (aside from MM). -- BrianG 20:42, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No one should ever run a MM in AB. Generic necro builds like Spiteful Spirit and Icy Veins are fun to run. A variation of this can be effective as well, but I doubt people are going to run this exact combination of skills anymore. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:36, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah I'm not a fan of playing MM in AB myself. Unfortunately I'm nowhere close to capping Icy Veins with my Necro in Factions, but I do have a PVE Spiteful Spirit build I could modify for AB.  I always thought of SS as a PVE build though, since as long as your opponent is not a moron he will just retreat until the hex expires.  Does anyone see a value in updating this build with the AB variant mentioned above?  Putrid Bile is pretty effective in AB, Consume Corpse is great e-management, and I DO get kills with the spike.  Some of the shrines can even be solo'd with this build. -- BrianG 13:38, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * A lot of things that work in PvE work in AB. However, more things that work in PvP work in AB, and actually turn out to work better. One main reason a lot of the GvG builds get tagged with AB. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:18, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, the "Great AB Builds" category has only 2 necro builds, this one, and an aura of the lich mm build. Only a couple other ones in "Good". So there are not a lot of options that are fun and effective for AB. I don't see a reason to archive this build, its better to at least provide people with options. If anyone can recommend other necro builds on the wiki for AB can we tag try to tag the appropriate pages? -- BrianG 00:11, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

Vile Miasma Buff
iz gud. Amorality 15:26, 14 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Big deal, 2 damage per second more. --84.24.206.123 15:28, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Changed description from "8 degeneration" to "9 degeneration" to reflect vile miasma's buff. Anfunnyiscool 11:45, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Augury Problem
Ok, when i use this build, augury seem to remove all other conditions when it triggers. So most of the time the foe is below half health before i use signet of toxic shock and so the poision is removed before i can use it. It aint a big deal, cause vile gives me the hex i need to reapply poision but it slows the spike down loads. Can someone else check and see whether they are having the same problem. <font color="Black">Azula <font color="Teal">TALK  02:04, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * augury does NOT remove other conditions. someone on the enemy team might be using a condition removal skill.  most good monks and many players carry them, after all.--Reason.decrystallized 05:15, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I no it's not meant too, but I'm very sure it did. No one removed the conditions as far as i could tell. <font color="Black">Azula <font color="Teal">TALK  19:36, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * It doesn't. You are wrong. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:50, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I just tested it then, didn't happen. Jetlag ftl <font color="Black">Azula <font color="Teal">TALK  20:08, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm pretty sure it happened in ra today again, 99% sure it wasn't removed by other team. <font color="Black">Azula <font color="Teal">TALK  02:58, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * You are wrong again. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 03:18, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Very helpful,contribute please. Is anyone else having this problem? it seems to happen when my internet cuts and i have reset the computer, and when i zone back in it does that. The thing is it doesn't happen continuiously. <font color="Black">Azula <font color="Teal">TALK  18:15, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Never personally experienced it, sorry.  Frosty  No U!  18:16, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I might be seeing things lol, but I have to find out :P <font color="Black">Azula <font color="Teal">TALK  18:21, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * It was probably just a SoM mesmer, WoD necro, or a ranger. all of them have condition removals that can target other allies. Der   Pwnzer<font color=silver face=cooper black size=3>:   <font color="silver" size=2>ohai  03:55, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

There is a way better version for TA. --<font color="Black">Readem 18:34, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

Archive
it's still used in RA. <font color="#0099FF">CABOSE (LVPoW) "Hey chicka bum bum!" 11:20, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

Equipment Template
Needs to be fixed, overload on energy (40-45 is all you need) and two major runes. - <B>Jax010</B> // healingp=0 19:23, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Fixed --Wingsy 15:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Archive...again
It's old, its spike isn't all that great, and I RARELY see this used anywhere. The last time I saw this used was in PvE... Shinomori 21:57, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Its not slow, use a 40/40 set, the spike is still very powerful. Its the only build that rapes me in ra either-- Shadow Relyk [[Image:Relyk srs.gif|19px]] 05:30, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * It's not powerful, it's fucking weak. This doesn't kill shit.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 05:35, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * False, this build is pretty fine. --Anonimous. 05:48, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Verata's Aura
Can we remove from Variants? It is a terrible choice. 15:58, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Terrible w/o DP. I'd rather roll rupt ranger vs this. Poison/rupts/rupts/dmg/rupts/faster rech./did I forget rupts? --BlazingBurdy 21:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming by DP you mean deadly paradox, which will make the spike about 2/3 of a second shorter with the current chain --<font color="Green">Oj <font color="Green">▲ <font color="Green">mo  21:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

DP = Energy Death, there is 2 (spike usage) Sin skills here.

Why is this...
...called a 'spike'? No Deadly Paradox means no spike and this bar takes too long (even with 40/40) to be considered a spike. --BlazingBurdy 15:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Put to Other/Archieve
This is not a spike, and it does terrible damage. It's slow (Relying on a 40/40 set is kind of a joke, and even if it triggered with every skill it wouldn't be enough) and you exhaust your energy very quickly. SoLS only works if they stay below 1/2 life, which has been very useless for the entire night I've been running it (Ran it in the past, but not for awhile, was still pretty bad back then). Seriously needs to be remade somehow or moved to other. Chocobuny 09:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Fort Aspenwood variant
I've been running a variant of this very successfully in Fort Aspenwood on the Kurzick side: [build prof=N/Me DeathMagic=11+1+1 SoulReaping=8+1 DominationMagic=10 IllusionMagic=6][Putrid Bile][Toxic Chill][Vile Miasma][Deathly Chill][Optional][Phantom Pain][Shatter Delusions][Consume Corpse][/build] I chose to replace the Assassin skills with the Mesmer ones so that I don't have to get in half-range and then later shadow step to them. I'm fragile enough already, and it gives me a better range to cast over the hillside or onto the Turtles. I've run Verata's Gaze in the optional spot when I'm afraid of MM's, but there's a lot of options for it. Choose based on the meta at the time. --Ender A 02:27, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think anybody gives a fuck [[image:Thunda_Sig_2.jpg‎ |19px]]<font color="Orange" face="Harrington" size="3">Thunda 05:13, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Those are probably already in the variants, if you want you could add a note down there?--Wingsy 12:44, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks bad. Also, lol'd at Thunda <3 -- -Ch  ao  s-   12:56, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I was justifying the changes I made: adding CM as a designed location and adding PP+SD to variants.