Archive talk:D/any HM Vaettir Farmer

That looks really slow and inferior. It would be faster to go /a and run a shadow form build spamming sand shards and auto attacking :S 24.216.227.176 11:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I admit I haven't tried the /a shadow form build, but this build is still quite fast taking 2 minutes to kill all 60. Remembering that VoS does not have the damage cap and Reap Impurities triggers 3 times per use (for 108 aoe holy damage). You gain 3 adrenaline per swing of your scythe and the vaettir charge the other 2 needed for an attack skill in the time it takes to attack once - infinite adrenaline for this builds purpose. As you're under an ias, you use the required 6 reap impurities to kill all vaettir in ~14 seconds (108*6=648dmg)
 * Tlam01.jpg Tlam 12:23, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This is fast and for a profession that I don't think has a build for farming vaettirs stored on the site (apart from that vaettir butcher duo thing) so I don't see why it shouldn't get into Great. Wolves 21:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Tried this. Works like a charm! Great build. Fast. Fun. EFFECTIVE! Seriously.. Once you get used to how to run this (and that only takes one "pile" of Vaettir)it is extremely effective. Make sure you take a merchant summon stone with you!Osman Digna 15:10, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * OgCjkyqDLTihkXtXjhOX9ghX7XA Works AMAZING!! I can pull all 60 and take them out in a matter of maybe 10 swings. 2 minute runs!--Azhkanizkael 04:56, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Screenshot or it didnt happen... Ive tried and you cant pull all 60 at once cus you lose agro. --Jimmyjam 09:17, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * lolicon! It's so easy to pull all 60, I'll get a video. Since you probably won't believe me otherwise.--Azhkanizkael 04:56, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll have the video up as soon as it stop's failing at uploading... -.- Kaspar Nagarian 16:30, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

A Few Notes
The Vaettir can cast rather quickly, use Pious Fury > Extend Enchantments > Vow of Silence as fast as you can while maintaining the skill order, I prefer to 'roll' over the number keys 1-3. Using this has helped me get around the high ping times I get, as you can strip/recast VoS at will. Also, I like to use a superior scythe mastery rune, it is hardly needed, but reduces the number of reap impurities needed to 5 (and I prefer higher numbers :P). Just remember to keep your health over 600. Final note, the +1+3 Mysticism headpiece I found to be necessary.(Forgot to sign)Tlam 13:12, 18 March 2011 (UTC) nice!

Optionals
Since your secondary is left open, there is some space to toy with skills, stuff like Balthazar's Spirit if you've got energy problems (doubted, but guildie of mine had, so w/e),and of course there's Drunken Master+alcohol(+dwarven Stability) (replaces Enchanted Haste), Extend Ench + Pious Haste + Dwarven Stability, etc. Deadfalk  11:34, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure about the energy problems your guildie had either. Using Mantra of Earth after the VoS sequence works nice with the recharges if they use an enchanting weapon, no need to spec into Inspiration.
 * I hadn't given too much thought to the optionals, they are limited to non-spell skils however, trying to cast any spell between VoS will result in death. Drunken Master could easily replace Enchanted Haste for running to Jaga Moraine. However I would advise against using it while engaging Vaettir as Pious Fury will only override it (PF is needed if using Extend Enchantments with VoS, VoS without EE/PF would work but the window to recast VoS after it drops is non-existent on my connection atleast). Pious Haste over PF and Dwarven Stability over EH work work but with minimal gain imo. You would lose the ias (not too important) and with +50% ims I could see you easily breaking the Vaettir aggro (cant test it atm).
 * Other thoughts on the optional included a clean up skill, Banishing Strike stood out as a winner, 63 armor ignoring damage spammable attack. But if you look closely in the video, the only Vaettir to survive the last Reap for the second ball had only 1 health left (vampiric weapon gave only 1 health on attack).Tlam 12:25, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Forget the Mantra of Earth suggestion, extra 10e to overcome his energy problems xD.
 * If you want the IMS while balling, use Enchanted haste between Extend Enchantments and VoS (PF>EE>EH>VoS). This would mean more casting and require an enchanting weapon, but it would not cause problems with EH refreshing Vow of Piety over VoS (rememebering you need PF to strip VoS). All up, you'd only save a few seconds per run at a greater risk of failing.Tlam 03:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I've tested the suggestions i deemed worthy, and there were 3 that worked succesfully :
 * Optional spot : Balthazar's Spirit, allows you to spend all your time balling and nullifies any possible energy problems (slower running speed)
 * Optional spot : Wind Djinn's Haste, another running choice, although less eff...nevermind.
 * Optional spot : Pious Haste, Extend Enchantments -> Dwarven Stability, reasoning below.
 * Extend Enchantments only is necessary if Enchanted Haste running, if not an Of Enchanting weapon makes VoS last 12 seconds, long enough to faceroll (bit more tedious, but running speed makes up), use Vow of Piety and Intimidating Aura to fuel PH, keep up DS, if enchantments are on reload just use PH w/o feeder - 25% isn't bad, 50% just is better Deadfalk Deadfalksig.jpg 12:04, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I am partial to keeping PF on the build as it saves 7.5-9s over the 2 groups, since the scythe has a slow attack speed. If not using EE, PF is a must (for me at least) since you can't queue recharging skills the latency induced delay in recasting VoS is enough for them to kill me... I liked your idea of PH/DS but after testing found the +50% to break aggro exceedingly quick, +25% didn't break aggro and +33% untested. I looked at other ims and they all required attribute adjustment and specialized equipment (dropping Mysticism to 11 was an option if using a scythe of warding). I also tried my earlier suggestion of EH but found difficulty with it (while engaging Vaettir). I did however find a solution by taking a Para hero. That hero casts Hasty Refrain with 16 Leadership and you take "Help Me!" as the optional to refresh it (use on recharge) -> permanent non-interfering ims, flag the hero at the portal and stop it stealing drops. Add that as an optional later if you agree.Tlam 15:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Who am i to disagree to a working thing? But i do think your misunderstanding me, Pious Fury shouldn't be replaced when you use PH - the coëxistence of them two is actually essential, cause if VoS lasts 12 seconds, and PF and PH both recharge after 12, you are able to faceroll VoS whenever you need it when you take both, but otherwise not (and you're still able to keep up PF), only prob is that energy probs arise, but that's easily solved with a Zealous Scythe of Enchanting Deadfalk Deadfalksig.jpg 16:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the misunderstanding, however I've only experienced the Vaettir breaking aggro when I've used PH, counterproductive to the run. If you were to take an ims it should hold aggro when in use. (PF has 10s recharge)Tlam 16:32, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Slight miscalculation, my mistake, still a bit tedious though...scrap the concept of PH unless very experienced, btw, i've got another idea (able to replace EE or as optional) : "I Am Unstoppable", it bypasses the armor bonus cap, thus giving you, combined with VoP and the insigs an effective 48 + 15 + 70 + 16 = 149 armor, ideal as panic button might a Conjure Phantasm slip trough - it allows you to stand more attacks, and with that allows you to bring down a Vaettir's HP to yours (if applicable) with crippling/RI and then lower the whole groups with the normal strategy Deadfalk Deadfalksig.jpg 16:56, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

More optional ideas:
 * Grenth's Aura - can 123 a single flash enchantment (PF->Flash->(EE)->VoS), small damage buff, +5 armor, will top your health off vs. balled vettirs in case of a mistake
 * Balthazar's Aura - burning damage higher than grenth's life steal
 * Feel No Pain - more insurance against screwing up, with regen, and a higher health total with emergency booze. Does more vs degen hexes than IaU.
 * You ought to be able use enchanted haste when balling guys similar to grenth's aura.FoxBat 23:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If taking an appropriate flash enchantment as an optional the extra +5ar should reduce any damage beyond IA's 11 DR by atleast 1, (2-5/40 x 12 = 11). VoP's +2 health regen should easily cover any damage taken when wielding the scythe, so the life steal from Grenth's Aura shouldn't be needed. Balthazar's Rage (or similarly Heart of Holy Flame) gives the extra armor and helps damage the Vaettir. Although the damage isn't much it should mean nothing survives after the 6th RI (or 5th if @15 Scythe Mastery) making them good optionals. Feel No Pain is also good, though conditional. Enchanted Haste is no longer safe to use while engaging the Vaettir, the reduction from 8 to 7 seconds means it drops before it can be recast (even with a +20% mod and EE), renewing VoP and risking its removal. Your suggestion of flash enchantments before EE in the recast chain prompted a closer look at them, Harrier's Haste stood out. By adding a minor rune of Wind Prayers HH lasts 4 seconds, with a +20%, 5 seconds, using PF>EE>HH>VoS would now supply a maintainable ims.Tlam 04:00, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

How about Aura Of Holy Might? Longish lasting and at least 20 damage each time you renew Vow of Silence. 71.101.225.81 00:51, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You could use balthazar's spirit as well just to get your adrenaline always topped off.--24.2.64.111 05:43, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Fragility is a good optiona i think because you will put and dismiss conditions many times. What do you think?
 * VoS prevents any spell casting while active, if you were to let it drop long enough to cast fragility, you'd die.Tlam 13:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Damage
Hmmm...I've tested this build out about 5 times (with all the set required) and for some reason when I change from the shield set to the scythe I take too much damage to even be able to strike once. The max dmg I've seen went up to 15, but that multiplied by all the Vaettirs becomes a real problem. Any insight?
 * I believe you might not have enough health for intimidating aura to work, im not sure as i havent tested the build but thats my conclusion.
 * With all the proper equipment and without warding/defense/fortitude on the scythe, you should have a total of 689(+title) health, 125 armor, and 11 DR while wielding the scythe. I imagine if you let armor slide too much they get hits over IA's damage reduction and eventually put you below 600, at which point their damage will increase substantially and you die. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 03:50, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, it turned out to be that I had a blessed insignia on one of the armor pieces, which led to a slight armor reduction. Fixed it and works perfectly. Thanks, though.

Also can farm groups of Mandragor in HM outside Yolon. I have been farming the insects, and wanted to get to Longspear for the boss bonus.. found this build to be effective in getting around those Mandragors. Good job on making this.. Thank you! Osman Digna 22:26, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Check that. Did it once. Got lucky. They owned my backside the next 3 times I tried it. (Wild Blow removes stances.. which removes VoS, which removes Derv from map)Osman Digna 23:25, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * VoS isn't a stance? o.O Falrach 15:38, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup. But then when I reactivated the stance it removed VoS. and I was DRT (Dead Right There)...On a side note.. using this build against the HM Vaettir I obtained the Survivor title in about 3 hours of play. Osman Digna 15:59, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So dont reactivate the stance... Surely you can still kill without the IAS? --Jimmyjam 18:27, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Mandragors have headbutt, which deals armor ignoring damage, I've no idea how you could even farm something like that without a healer. Kaspar Nagarian 18:14, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

VoS maintenence
Havent read the discussion cus, well, tl;dr. So this may have been discussed before, or im being dense, but here goes. At 16 myst and an enchanting mod VoS can be maintined indefinately... where is the need for extend enchantments in this build? Every enchantment is completely maintainable on its own. So id would say drop extend for balth, then you get some more burn dmg and adrenaline for criplling V.
 * It sucks having to recast every 10 sec Falrach 16:49, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if Intimidating Aura runs out before you ball yer fucked. Forgot that Falrach 16:55, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * But it means you get more slots for dmg/survivability/something more useful. And its 12s not 10s with the enchant mod --Jimmyjam 16:51, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * IA lasts 72s with an enchant mod and recharges in 20s... --Jimmyjam 19:52, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Duration is important because if you attempt to cast it between VoS - you die.-- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain  Alex  20:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Could you elaborate on that? I dont quite understand. --Jimmyjam 23:19, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Intimidating needs to last a really long time so that you won't have to renew it mid-ball. You wouldn't be able to get a recast of it off without dying (since you'd need VoS down to cast it). -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 03:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh right yeah lol, blonde moment on my part there. I always forget the "you cant cast spells" clause of VoS --Jimmyjam 14:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I can pull all 60 in one pull w/ an extend enchanted IA... Just sayin. So what's the problem with VoS maintenance? before u go in cast extend > IA > VoP > VoS then when VoS is about to run out, PF > EE > VoS, and keep doing that until you've got all of them balled.--24.2.64.111 05:58, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Can't Maintain VoPiety
In the video you roll skills 1 2 and 3 and it refreshes your vow of piety somehow. But whenever I do it, it doesn't work. VoP only refreshes if it ends not if its removed. How come yours refreshes when you remove enchantments?


 * Are you sure you stripp off VoS not VoP? Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 12:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I figured it out. I've been using the extend enchantments when I first cast it, so whats happening is the bar is 180% longer than it should be. So when it refreshes, it only refreshes the first 20 seconds so it doesn't fill the bar back up. It's working correctly. I have another problem though, half of my Vaets are missing. The first and second group that gets pulling in the video just flat out aren't there. After finishing theres only 34 that I killed...


 * Completed Blood Washes Blood and you're in Hard mode? -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain  Alex  13:16, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, blood washes blood did it for me!

Alt Build
Wanting to get legendary survivor on my Derv, I tried the build, but found it difficult to keep VoS up. I gave up after awhile and threw this together. It takes longer (5 min) but is more forgiving if you make a mistake.

[build prof=Dervish/Assassin Myst=12+1+3 Sha=12 Dead=3][Extend Enchantments][Intimidating Aura][Aura of Holy Might (Kurzick)][Deadly Paradox][Shadow Form][Shroud of Distress][Heart of Holy Flame][Signet of Pious Light][/build]

Windwalkers x5 Sup Mysticism on head Vitae x3 Sup Vigor

1st set: Axe/Sword/Spear w/+5e and enchanting mod and Shield w/16ar, +10ar against earth dmg. inscription and shield handle of devotion. 2nd set: Zealous Scythe w/+5e and enchanting mod.

Walk in and approach first group using weapon set #1. Use EE > IA and wait a bit for energy to pick up a bit. Then use DP > SF and move in casting SoD when you have the energy. Ball them up maintaining SF. Once gathered up use EE > AoHM. Switch to scythe and attack for energy. Maintain SF and SoD while toggling 7 & 8. Switch back to weapon set #1 and repeat with 2nd group. If you slip up with SF and get a few hexes in between casting, don't panic. Maintain enchantments and continue toggling 7 & 8. You should be able to pull through. Don't use scythe unless you have all 4 enchants up (IA, AoHM, SF and SoD). For AoHM, Kurz/Lux r2 is enough.

I did get LS today. Hope it helps others. Sardaukar  01:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That's gonna be damn slow, but otherwise I guess it'd work. -- Jai . -  02:38, September 20 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, not worth adding also if you keep concentrated and without lag you should be able to get LS. Sjan talk  15:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

HM Update
As far as I can see you have 3 options to get your health above 720. Only take a Maj Myst rune and have r8 norn, take Eternal Aura or use a +30 HP scythe rather than 20% ench and take a Maj Myst rune.

One of these options should be mentioned on the page unless someone can think of something better. I doubt people want to pay for morale boosts when trying to make money. HerpDerp 01:31, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

nerfed
crippling victory was nerfed on Jan 23rd 2012 update
 * fixed-- Relyk 04:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think Aura Slicer is AOE is it? I wonder if replacing Pious Fury with Signet of Pious Restraint would work.Nyltak 17:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it matters that Aura Slicer isn't AoE. Reap will only remove a condition from the 3 things you hit. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 18:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Safer survivor with Holy Veil
Just made Legendary Survivor with that build. I had a problem at the beginning, though: due to a small lag, I did not reapply VoS fast enough to avoid nasty hexes, causing degen that led to less than 720hp, and finally death or rezone. However, by replacing eternal aura by holy veil (I had to spend consumables to increase hp), the farm became as safe as can be expected by a survivor in training. You might want to list that as an option. Thanks for the build. Ghanima Ombrebrise

Usage still says CV
I'll change it to Aura Slicer so there isn't any confusion. If anyone has a problem feel free to revert it. ShinraGuardian 18:45, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Aura Slicer Vs. Crippling Victory
I just recently started this build and at first I tried using Crippling Victory, which worked- But since the build said Aura Slicer I later tried that, etc.

When using Aura Slicer I felt like it made no real difference.

Since you can't make a spirit bleed for 16+ Seconds, it's useless. And putting Cracked Armor on them, I feel is almost a waste. From what I saw I did no more damage, etc.

I understand that the use of Aura Slicer is to place a condition on them that you can take off seconds later with Reap Impurities, but if that's all it's really used for- You might as well use Crippling Victory still. From what I've seen is still places a condition on them, and does (At least for me, 7 Damage)- Where as Aura Slicer does absolutely no damage, and instead warns you that Spirits cannot bleed.

For me at least, I think CV is the way to go.


 * Remember, CV needs 6 adrenaline where AS needs 4. CV needs an extra hit to get the required adrenaline. Aura Slicer is more spam = faster kills Freakyboy 14:00, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Reap Impurities takes 5 adrenaline. It will take 2 swings either way.-- Relyk 19:33, 12 May 2012 (UTC)