User talk:Sacropedia/Sandbox/Bow Ranger Hero test

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Current page: Additional: It may seem unorthodox, but I'd try adding power drain and leech signet for better energy. A build core roundabout like this, add an attack skill of choice. Let me know what you think. [build=OgUTMs7mZS1IDoHoC8WDMkXDAAA]
 * Adding more 10e attack skills makes the hero burn out quickly.
 * The optionals require the player to give his hero a pet, unless he's supposed to bring multiple hard rezzed on one character.
 * Survivor insignias should be left out in favour of the armor insignias, they achieve much more.
 * There are two weapon sets, but this is a hero build. Players won't change their hero's weapon before and after combat, so the second weapon set should be dropped.
 * Usage can be reduced to the hero AI mode, as the rest is unneeded and not helpful.
 * The 19 marksmanship note is Trivia at best and should be left out.
 * Read the wind is used outside of combat. This will make the hero fall behind the team inbetween fights.
 * Neither read the wind nor expert's dexterity are maintained reliably during combat. This makes the flatbow a bit of a liability.
 * The build has only single target damage. Since read the wind's usage is disappointing and its uptime quite bad, I recommend to leave away the preparation and instead bring volley. This'll mean the hero won't lag behind between fights and won't sit down for almost 3 seconds during combat. But it also means to sacrifice base weapon speed by changing the weapon to a recurve bow.
 * Heroes don't understand needling shot, so that can't be used to increase the amount of support triggers, making volley even more interesting.
 * Quickly activating attack skills like sundering shot have a very long aftercast delay and seem to hurt the performance compared to normal attack skills.

Remotely related: [build=OggjcpgcISObfTRbbOnNZObiXM] [build=OgcUYxr25vMMQcX3zhxwOYcPjDA]
 * About auspicious winds. For stationary fights it'll be better to turn the hero into a R/Rt abomination, since he already has +3 expertise.
 * A smiting beast master seems to be more suited to add single target damage to the team.
 * I know, I know, no one likes to turn stuff into dagger wielders, but if you like unorthodox builds you may be interested in this petless dagger hero. It's triggering support more quickly than a bow hero, can be buffed with strength of honour and adds some unique flavour through blind and dazed. The IAS usage is quite good aswell. This build may actually be useful. Requires 13 expertise and 9 beast mastery. If you want to get a pet in, drop signet of malice and golden phoenix strike for comfort animal and scavenger strike, use vampiric daggers.

Whichever way you go, I have serious doubts that any bow ranger hero build will survive the vetting process. Ranger is a weak profession, the AI is even weaker, there are no PvE-only skills that make bows remotely useful for players and even if you find a bow build doing something relatively well, you'll find that the same profession is much more effective at all the jobs using a different weapon or spirits. Really saddening. --Krschkr (talk) 01:45, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the feedback! Sometimes I just don't want any melee things in my team but I still want ranged physical attackers, so my goal is pretty much figuring out exactly how much worse a bow-focused hero is than its alternatives, and why. I'm not good at rangers in general, so I've just heard a bit here and there. I figured the line of thought was that all ranger IAS stances are bad (Lightning Reflexes duration, Tiger Stance disable), so ranger DPS is forced to use Rapid Fire or secondary profession stances, but Rapid Fire blocks other preparation use and doesn't work with volley. It also bothers me to use Volley builds when heroes still don't know how to spam it. On top of that, ranger elite attack skills are not used effectively by heroes except for Burning Arrow and to some extent Incendiary Arrows (BHA misses, Barrage isn't spammed, etc.). I also thought I heard Glass Arrows was a decent build at some point, so I figured maybe preparations weren't the issue, if the IAS stance could be solved. Enter Expert's Dexterity, which used to have a build long ago (but was archived from PvE because the build was nerfed in PvP). With 15 Expertise, it's a 33% IAS stance that lasts for 20 seconds and has 20 second recharge, so in theory it should have an uptime of 95-100% just like Tiger Stance but better IAS % for lower cost. This is basically a 2-energy cost Frenzy for ranger that also boosts main weapon attribute at the cost of being an elite. To address a few things I suppose:
 * 15 expertise allows even a hero to use several 10e attack skills without running out of energy.
 * The optionals are far from optimal - I just ran out of ideas after adding 6 skills because I don't know that much about rangers, and I've heard pets are good but didn't know if they're good enough with 3 BM attribute. If you can think of any optional from a secondary profession (or another ranger skill) to use instead of adding a pet, that'd be great.
 * I only added the survivor insignias because 400/430 max HP seemed a little low and I wasn't sure whether stance vs prep vs pet was better.
 * I really should just put the sundering weapon as an optional for those who dislike vampiric degen, and not a second weapon set.
 * Usage was written in jest because I was tired, please don't judge me xD
 * Yeah the 19 marksmanship note doesn't belong, and the other note can be condensed a bit too.
 * It's quite rare to travel long distances with speedboosts without encountering new groups of enemies, so I don't think lagging behind is a serious issue.
 * Using a prep in combat isnt much different from an elementalist reapplying attunement that's been stripped, imo. Read the wind has decent uptime but maybe that's just me - I guess it depends what we're comparing to as a standard?
 * Volley isn't used efficiently by heroes, same as Needling Shot which is definitely terrible. Any hero volley build will end up with lower damage than this, despite hitting 3 targets every now and then. The only bonus of volley is team support like splinter weapon, but the idea is to have a bow ranger build that's not relying on a team to be somewhat viable. Ultimately maybe the damage is simply too low after all, but I just needed more information before I personally dismissed it.
 * Favorable winds should be removed from variants.
 * The liability of a flatbow due to reapplication habits of Read the wind could be a good objection to this build. Expert's Dexterity is kept up fine though.
 * I don't really think mesmer interrupts have a place on a bar like this that's focused on damage, not interrupts. Even distracting shot doesn't really make the cut for mainbar imo.
 * Those other builds are really interesting but not really my cup of tea - thanks though!
 * I'll do some testing I suppose, maybe this shouldn't be submitted at all.


 * [build=OgASc5MT8awGVgqG4aAAAAAA]
 * This minor change seems to already make a bit of difference. Body Shot could be a good optional actually. Maybe this should just have pet stuff added to it...?


 * [build=OgATcZrmRiXD2oCU1AXD3wLk2A]


 * Like so, but then I have to wonder why not go Rampage as One instead... I'm just bad at rangers. (Also why does it default to PvP versions of skills? o.o) Sacropedia (talk) 04:11, 28 October 2019 (UTC)