Build talk:Team - FoW Manly T3way

Putting this up since a lot of people seem to be running T3way with 100b/VoS spikers. Random Weird Guy 18:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The main tank should be A/N in this case since there's no MoP. No need for sliver since forest wolf is killed by the T3. Punjab Prince 21:00, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah I meant to do that but forgot, thanks for reminding me!Random Weird Guy 10:21, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * 5-5-x now &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 16:34, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Someone should probably write up a guide like there is on the manlyway page, just for consistency.-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  20:30, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I would like to discuss the flexibility of these bars. It would seem given that most would agree that a VOS spiker with either Splinter Weapon, or Mark of Pain can confidently spike a group alone that the number of spikes be reduced from 2, to 1 removing the 100B entirely. In replacement of the second spiker, VOS or 100B, a Necromancer with Mark of Pain could be taken instead. This would allow Mark of Pain to activate without reduction from Shadow Form, whilst adding potential skills into the run such as Technobabble, "Finish Him!" and Barbs to tackle clean up more efficiently. Removal of Mark of Pain from the MT removes the need for secondary Necromancer from the bar in favor of Elementalist for Sliver Armor, or Paragon for "We Shall Return!". This would allow the MT to provide cover if a Terra is dead/slow or rescue a dead Terra from hostile environments. This effectively adds a Terra back into the team as a A/N MT is effectively a spiker with Spell Protection and nothing more. I would keep Splinter Weapon on the Ritualist/EoE over Vampirism as staying alive isn't an issue during any solo parts. In addition Splinter Weapon provides you with larger DPS than Vampirism at both Tower of Courage, and Defend the Temple of War quests through wanding. Please do not view these ideas or suggestions as an attack but merely a discussion to enhanced versatility without compromising spikes, speed or performance. --Manic 14:03, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ohai manic. Still havent realized the best way to talk to pvx is to yell at them? Also, still in yawn or wtf is going on in gw nowadays? Ed Falrach 14:22, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello Ed, long time no see. Current in [Name] have been there for a year now I think, lots of old friends here. I assume you don't play anymore from the way you have worded your message? HaHa I am not going to yell at anyone, I just feel greater flexibility could be achieved with an MT who can either rescue Terra's or cover their areas, after all factors such as Internet Connections, Interrupts and forgetting to pop Personal Consumables (Alcohol), whilst not common are hazards of speed clear and happen to the best of players. Plus in the suggested set up you gain greater suitability in dealing with and eliminating single targets, or multiple scattered targets.Skeletal Bonds and Shadow Monks come to mind at being the targets which would take longer to kill than is necessary given the lack of ability to inflict Daze and Deep Wound.--Manic 16:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I added Manic's suggestions as well as fixing some obvious mistakes and removing pieces of bad advice. Whilst 2 manly spikers is viable, having a dedicated MoP is much more versatile for clean-up. If you have 2 spikers, MoP on the MT is unnecessary, as well as useless on 360. Mist Y 22:35, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Anything that still needs to be cleaned up? Price drop in shards some time after this gets vetted ;) Random Weird Guy 18:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Ranger
I've made some changes to the Ranger T1 build. Dark Escape is the only defense you need, and Whirling kills the stuff you're doing too quickly for rad field/viper's to matter. I mainbar'd HoS, because who doesn't use HoS. Added a rough guide for how to do it as well. Punjab Prince 19:49, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You dont need DE. Get iau and save booze so actually make any profit. Falrach 14:19, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I know you don't need it, that's why it's an optional along with Dash and Dark Prison. As for booze, assuming it takes 30 minutes to finish (lol) and you pop 3 minute alcohol at every interval, you're still spending less than 1k per run on booze. That's barely a cut into your profit. You'd still need Dwarven Stability anyway for lengthening Whirling Defense so there's no point in running IAU. Punjab Prince 16:15, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 1K/run is 1K/run. If you do 4 runs a day, that's like popping a free conset every 2 days, which adds up. But then again, I'm a Dutchie. However, the time lost vs Dash/Dark Prison is minimal, and there is no time lost compared to DE, it's safer than DE, and might even be faster if you get crippled in BF. Thus imho its a more viable alternative than DE (and i quite often forget popping alc when running DS only) Falrach 17:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 1k/run was a very lenient estimate, it assumed you take 30 minutes to finish a T3way (shouldn't take more than 18 with covering if needed). Time lost between Dash/Dark Escape is very significant in T3way, since you're running all the way to get Hunt then back to Burning Forest. The whole point of Dark Escape is to cut damage from Power Shot which is what damages you the most which is armor ignoring, so IAU is useless in that respect. You can also avoid every single melee skeletal mob pretty easily, and even if you don't, it takes a LOT of hits to get crippled. You're doing something wrong if that happens. Punjab Prince 04:04, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked it was like 90g/minute, so that's only 11 min Falrach 08:01, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Whilst i agree with you in respect to skele mobs, you shouldnt need dark escape unless you're taking forever to ball + whirl at ToS as you shouldn't get hurt much even without any defensive skills. Dark escape is just for training wheels. Hell you can pop whirling early provided you keep moving. Whilst nice, Dash doesnt actually make that much difference in casual runs, when i used to play i could finish in 2-3 mins after forge taken regardless of whether i had dash or not, it really isnt a big difference. HoS/DC provides enough distance from cliff jumps etc that you dont strictly need dash. It isnt "significant" at all, a good ranger terra will be finished with his stuff before pretty much everyone else in T3way, with or without dash. Personally i brought EVAS as well as FH because im badasss and it's OP as fuck. ;) --Dont Tell Dave 15:00, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I know you don't need DE, but forgoing it is difficult for newcomers to the build. Dash and Dark Prison make up for more time during the running to/from Hunt than the EVAS+FH combo will on Khobay killing time. I may have overstated the significance, but they're still the best optionals if you want the job done quickly. Punjab Prince 05:47, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

MoP
Saw a variant of it as a Rt/N with splinter wep, dwg, and fomf. It was an incredible finisher and helped with spikes quite well. Dunno about the energy though...thoughts?-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  20:59, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * whoa i thought nobody runs DwG for this anymore. how was EoE? &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 18:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * EoE was just a regular solo toc, with an extra damage skill to speed up toc and clean-ups.-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  19:46, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

2spikers vs 1spiker+mop
2 spikers are much stronger for several reasons: --Giorgevich 14:13, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * a single pug spiker can miss a spike, which can lead to scatter and wipe. with two spikers this cannot happen.
 * mop on a dedicated character is useless. MoP is just a skill which can easily brought by both MT and UA
 * cleanup is easier with two spikers: basically Necro mop has evas+barbs for cleanup, another vos deals much more damage than that.
 * having two vosses let you do more splits (ex. toc split, forge splits, defend splits, griffons splits)
 * also with 2x VoS it's possible to deal off-damage on bad balls. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 14:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * At first glance, double spiker might seem stronger, but it isn't. On smaller spikes you NEED both vos/100bs to hit with a low spec mop. FH+EVAS+Barbs is some of the strongest cleanup in the game, and since this is mainly ran by the more exp teams cleanup shouldn't be so big that the aoe from the spikers becomes a factor. If you put mop on the UA, this means you're putting the healer in one of the front positions of the spike, and in case shit goes south he's better off at the back. ToC split is solod by rit, and there are maybe ~5 people capable of doing forge top solo with a derv. (and you can still split forge if you know how, in case a terra is there). Off damage is easily provided by rit, correct placement of the 2nd copy of mop your likely to take on the MT. Perhaps I'm just looking from the side of experienced team, but for me a single spiker has always worked out better, as long as he could manage his energies in forge.  Falrach 15:34, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * i think the points i want to make are basically two: (1) This is intended to be a Pug teambuild, and we all have seen pugs spiking without vos, or using eremite's to remove VoS. Two spikers are a very nice safety net. (2) Splits. I've taken a lot of pugs solo toc rits, and i think more than half of them failed. With two dervs, you can easily split eoe+ua+vos for toc, mt+vos go ahead and spike without losing any speed. With a single vos you can either have solo toc and hope he does not fail, or have the whole team stay, and lose time. Probably forge splits aren't that important since they require more experience, but still two dervs can handle forge as easily as derv+mop (i personally think 2dervs are better because of enchantment removal, but that's personal experience)--Giorgevich 16:20, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thing is, you usually only run t3way with friends/guilds pug mb 1-2 roles you cant fill, and just be selecting. Problem fix'd Falrach 17:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm still thinking the rt/n with mop, dwg, and splinter wep is a better finisher.-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  19:13, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * or we could just split this into pug/xp variants. you know, in case guilds read pvx. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 17:34, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * How can a VoS miss a spike? All you need to do is Death's Charge. The benefit of a dedicated MoP is that you have someone who specialises in clean up. A skilled MoP can make a UA completely useless by calling Mark of Pain, then Technobabble, the You Move Like a Dwarf which effectively immobilises the Shadow Mesmers. A N/A MoP also has the ability to spam 160 damage with 20% drop in health through Assassins Promise, You Move Like a Dwarf and Finish Him. Whilst this is assuming he/she has strong ranks with the recent update max damage is more common now than before. ToC Split will save perhaps 15 seconds, Forge split shouldn't happen due to 360, defend split won't save you much time either perhaps another 20 seconds. Your only benefit to two VoS is your split at Griffin. We still average 6 minute Forge on casual runs with an N/A MoP so any split before won't change Forge but a significant amount of time. Please remember that this build has a section rated on Universality, in its ability to compensate from fails. You would have more to gain from having an MT that isn't a glorified spiker, and that can either cover an area of actually res Terra's. In addition clean up is easily dealt with by a MoP of which I have previous stated. In terms of easily Solo ToC adding Naga Shaman would increase the success rate as it is able to achieve a max of 120 damage whilst also triggering Splinter Weapon which makes for a faster Solo ToC. My note of failures is they usually take too long and panic about rupturing and leave themselves exposed. Addition of a second superior run of Spawning Power would also be more effective given the increase in Spirit Health and Rupture Soul damage. A new video wouldnt be any harm either. If you really are not sure about the Ritualist get the UA to stay behind. --Manic 10:34, 17 June 2012 (UTC)Manic

Walkthrough
I've added walkthroughs for each area (most of which are copy/paste with a few edits). We'll still need videos and maps for each area (including the shephard glitch for T3). Random Weird Guy 11:08, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

T3 with GoC
I removed GoC from the T3. It simply isn't needed. There are parts where it is nice to have, but you can avoid nearly all interrupts very easily. To glitch the worms, flip to a staff, and then back to a sword and shield set. They will stop attacking, and their spawns are so consistent that you can effortlessly work around them. You should never get interrupted on the bridge because both sides of it for nearly the entire length of it will obstruct projectiles as long as you are close enough to the edge of it. To sliver mobs, simply take a step off the wall, then step back onto it to cast. You can maintain a right wall block the entire time, while gaining ranged attacks to trigger slivers and obstructing them to cast in total safety. The only thing that isn't easily mitigated is spiders, which can generally be obstructed, and even those will generally have difficulty hitting anything if you have something as minimal as a pie active.

Discuss. If needed, I will demonstrate basic positioning to prevent interrupts to someone. I can also demonstrate how to pull the griffons out of forest safely. Double Derv Dare 03:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Might want to explain that in usage because I have no idea what Glyph of Concentration has to do with glitching wurms just from reading the page. Videos typically make such things self-explanatory, but there currently isn't one on the page and this wouldn't be obvious to a new player. I don't think safe spots for cave are explained in manlyway either but there's a video for that so I wouldn't bother. I have very little experience with terras hence suggesting this.-- Relyk 05:52, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I also use the worm glitch (although I use it for MT to sliver worms when the team is slow), but we really need a video to explain it. Random Weird Guy 08:25, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I would also like to point out that on the T2way page, AoE in mainbar on T1 even though it's not needed, because it's much safer and much more common. Random Weird Guy 08:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * GoC doesn't really have anything directly related to glitching the worms. It's simply not needed if you glitch them. To glitch them, flip to a melee weapon and they will stop attacking. Once sliver is active flip back to a staff and they will attack you again to fuel sliver. Perhaps mainbar GoC and leave a note that it isn't necessary if you know how to avoid all of the assorted interrupts.


 * Also. AoE on the T1? The fuck? It's a ranger. Even assuming you meant having it on the T2 for covering, that's generally pointless. Rangers are nearly impossible to kill because whirling defense gives you more than 90% block rate, and the main tank should have We Shall Return mainbarred to go quickly and easily res failing terras, and the T2/T3 can cleanly transition to perform all of the main tank roles other than tanking forge top (which can be done, but it's dangerous). Double Derv Dare 18:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * He said T2way, so the oldschool SC. I like how you didn't even fully read everything he said and still bothered to answer, considering he wrote 2 sentences. Falrach   Talk   20:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * T1 has armor because it's extremely safe with it. Without it you need to be more careful with pulls in burning forest and at ToS, and personal cons are moderately important. I apparently misunderstood the analogy initially, but I still don't see the relevance of it. It's extremely safe to run T3 without GoC. It's comparable to running T2 without GoC. As long as you know what to do, it's an utterly wasted skill slot. Double Derv Dare 22:02, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Video isn't needed to understand glitching worms, its really, really simple. Equip a martial set (sword/axe) + shield (spear doesn't work) Stand in Nearby range of them. NOT adjacent. as long as you aren't right on top of them it is fine, they will stop attacking until you change weapon set. I'll writeup the section on lightning forest including this bug + pic later/tomorrow if i can be bothered :D--Dont Tell Dave 21:57, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Once in a while the worms will attack through a sword/axe set, or attempt to concussion shot skills. That's why I recommend flipping between weapon sets because it will reset their behavior, and as an added bonus, while you are on your staff set they will attack to trigger sliver. Double Derv Dare 22:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Manlyway
I know this wiki has always tried to maintain the popular name for builds, but one thing has always bothered me. What, exactly, is manly about hopping around invincible? Brandnew. 14:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * 3+ warriors/dervishes balling against a balled sticky group of foes, using their sword/scythes to rip enemies in half. It's manlier than a sweaty rugby match! --Sewa (talk) 16:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * sorry, its only manly with warriors. dervishes are just spinning farmers in skirts with scythes (who ironically kill faster..) - Chieftain Alex  16:05, 12 July 2013 (UTC)