Archive talk:A/Me Energy Drain Assacaster

Standard RA Assacaster. Also excels in PvE (...although what doesn't?). - Auron 13:30, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Ether feast is shit tbh. Feigned isn't a self-heal as much as it is a self-prot; which is what keeps you alive. The bulk heal from Ether Feast is gone in two or three whacks from a wammo; the prot and regen help much more. - Auron 13:45, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

You can't do anything while FN is active, and good players would just switch to a nearby target. Feast is much more useful for relieving pressure. Tycn 14:47, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

I don't understand. Why just E-drain? 10 points in an attribute for one skill is bad. Shido 15:08, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * E-Drain is just a energy managment elite that's also stealing energy from target = annoyance. This build can cooperate without elite, but e-drain is just nice for the energy. Oh and btw, the only high thing you'll need is shadow arts. The other is just for FN. So attributes won't be that mutch of a problem. Unexist 16:50, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Answer my question plz. Why JUST E-drain? 10 points for 1 skill = fail. Shido 18:38, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Hey, look! It's the same exact build that's been posted a billion times... with energy drain! 70.161.45.87 16:15, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Almost identical to Archive:A/E Blinding Surge Assassin but not as good. Faramir (contributions ) 18:33, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * This is way better then siggy spiker. It acually manages energy, which means more KD and damage - Skakid9090 18:36, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Fuck energy management. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:48, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

A 5 for the name alone. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 18:58, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

finally some1 posts this. Mgelo21 19:00, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Okay look, people keep bashing Energy Drain and the fact that the build uses 10 points just for one skill. Well... And the list goes on...so until you can convince all the people that run those builds that putting 10 points in one atrribute for one skill is a waste, your "10 Points just for edrain=fail" argument, is Null and Void. --Hikari 19:00, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Build:W/E PvP Shock Axe 11 Points in Tactics, only one tactics skill (Healing Signet) < - In the "Great Builds" section.
 * Archive:Mo/A Shadow Arts RC Monk 9 Points in healing prayers, only one heal prayers skill (GoHealth) < - Great Builds section
 * Archive:R/Rt Brutal Glass Arrows 10 Points in Communing, only one comming spell (Brutal Wep) <- Great Builds section


 * If you seriously just mentioned Shock Axe, you fail. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 19:07, 11 July 2007 (CEST)


 * He also mentioned RC. The Brutal Glass Arrows build phails. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:10, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Gimmick ftw! Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 19:11, 11 July 2007 (CEST)
 * But I like old and out dated builds. =( Archive:W/E Conjure Cripslash, 10 Points for Conjure.--Hikari 19:14, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Signet of midnight perhaps? For when you shadow step you can follow it with signet of Shadows? 72.189.132.14 19:30, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

...Erm no, just no. --Hikari 19:32, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Really, WTB New Name. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 00:30, 12 July 2007 (CEST)


 * your name stinks readem =), always insulting everyone elses =( Skakid9090 00:32, 12 July 2007 (CEST)


 * That's because everyone else's name sucks. Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:35, 12 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Wait my name or the Builds? o_o --Hikari 03:51, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

E. Drain stinks in this build
E. Drain stinks as energy management for this build. It's about equivalent to 1 pip, and barely helps this build. You could try second wind at 0 atts (and get an extra second or two out of FN).--Thc 04:44, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Did you seriously not just suggest actually using Second Wind, but on top of that, suggest using it on a non-primary ele? --Edru viransu 04:48, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

use math plx. Or better yet, just look at the wiki. Don't be so close minded. --Thc 07:37, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * ...rlly you fail. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 07:55, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Second Wind is fairly strong energy-management if you actually have high enough max energy to maintain 60 or so exhaustion. It's rare to be able to do that, even on primary eles. on a A/E, you're not going to be able to safely get nearly a pip from it. --Edru viransu 16:28, 13 July 2007 (CEST)
 * At 60 maintained exhaustion, you get somewhere in between 7 and 8 pips from it. The math may be a little difficult for some people, but as I said, just go look at the wiki.  An A/E will be able to maintain abuot 25 exhaustion, 40 with weapon switch.  But also, it takes several casts of second wind to get that amount of exhaustion - which means until you get the optimum amount, you are essentially getting free energy.  --Thc 03:19, 14 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Orlly, you get free energy? Why am I not surprised? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 03:22, 14 July 2007 (CEST)
 * What max energy are you suggesting using for this second wind usage? Second Wind is extremely fragile as well. Also, according to wiki, as you suggested to look, Second Wind at 60 maintained exhaustion is 1.83 e/second, approximately 5.5 pips. --Edru viransu 03:58, 14 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I use 54 max energy iirc. But as I said, weapon switch will boost that by 30.  Also, how is second wind "extremely fragile?"  Because it can be interrupted?  You're not going to be worrying about interruption, much less energy when ur in FN and kiting.--Thc 10:21, 15 July 2007 (CEST)
 * You can kite during a 2 second cast? What does Feigned have to do with interruption? Also, close-range characters regularly using 2sec casts is asking for a dshot. 54 max energy is like insightful staff, nearly full radiant and an attunement rune... More specifically, the equivalent of wearing a sup rune in terms of health. --Edru viransu 10:52, 15 July 2007 (CEST)

Oh my god people, if it sucks, replace it (ASSASSIN'S PROMISE)
 * OMG. Nty. Unexist 16:15, 13 July 2007 (CEST)

I don't see how Energy Drain's better? You only gain 9 energy (after casting; -5 energy cost +14 energy gain = 9 energy gain), and have to wait 25 seconds to use it again as Deadly Paradox doesn't cut down the recharge time. Sorry but I prefer the Assassins Promise version, if you can't kill someone with a Sin Caster then you shouldn't be running it anyway.
 * Firstly, sins promise is terrible. Secondly, stop forgetting that edrain steals energy, it doesn't just give it to you. If I'd wanted a huge income of energy, I'd have put pdrain in the bar; notice how I didn't? - Auron 16:24, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

But the whole point of Energy Drain being in this build is for energy management is it not? I also don't see how Assassins promise is terrible. Recharges all skills and gives you a very nice amount of energy, also recharges quicker thanks to Deadly Paradox. While the fact it steals energy does stand (and is a valid one) I just don't think it's all that great in my opinion.-Unreal Havoc 18:25, 12 August 2007 (CEST)


 * The idea of edrain, is to create decent pressure while having some form of energy management. AP may be good E-management, but if removed then it is worthless. One must also take into consideration, that AP is overkill on this build. The skills do not necessarily need to be rec when you kill your target. Who cares that you have to wait a whole, what, ten seconds for your chain to recharge naturally? The build in itself is all about pressure, so why not take an elite that covers bother the reqs of pressure and energy? Edrain, meets both suitably. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 19:32, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

So why not just use Energy Tap (which is almost the same as Energy Drain) and free up the Elite spot for something that may be a bit more useful? Or perhaps even have both Ether Tap and Assassin's Promise in your bar? You say it's about pressure but if you have to wait "a whole ten seconds" for recharging skills (although a given that they do recharge fairly quick under Deadly Paradox) then you are not pressuring.-Unreal Havoc 20:51, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Energy Tap is bad, even on mesmers with FC, and 10 seconds is the longest recharging skill on the bar, except for Edrain and Feigned. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 20:55, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

Whats so bad about Energy Tap? It's almost the same as Energy Drain except the slightly longer casting time. If you play your role right and pick your targets carefully it shouldn't really be an issue. :s -Unreal Havoc 21:36, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * 3 sec cast time. Less energy. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 21:43, 12 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Unreal, go back up and read the part where I said "If I'd wanted a huge income of energy, I'd have put pdrain in the bar; notice how I didn't?" Pdrain is a thousand times better than energy tap, and is slightly better than edrain, but tbh, the pressure added by stealing energy makes up for the difference in energy gained. - Auron 04:12, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

I see your point Auron, but draining 7 energy every 25 seconds? Hardly seems worth it because you are waiting 25 seconds between each cast, at least if you used an AP variant you would be able to recharge your energy management skills upon killing your opponent. Any player with good energy management themselves would probably not find this too much of a problem would they? Though it would most likely work well against Assassins and Warriors dependent on Enchantments (Haha take that you nasty SP Sin! :D). Now if there was a way to spam it maybe, I would most likely like it better :)-Unreal Havoc 09:45, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

Energy Gain
The energy you gain from E.Drain isn't that great, because the net gain of energy is 9, which is not even enough for Entangling Asp. Faramir (<font color="Red">contributions ) 08:57, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Not to mention that this build doesn't use nearly as much energy as many other builds. So why does this one need an e-management elite that has no synergy with this build? Come on guys, throwing a random elite on an already vetted build (sig spiker), and taking off its vital secondary spike is just plain dumb. If you honestly have energy problems with a sig spiker, then you need some serious practice in GW.
 * This build can run out of energy. It does not have any points in Critical Strikes (and doesn't autoattack anyway), and thus has no inherent energy management. Back when the A/E one was unnerfed (read - 5 energy bsurge), even it had energy problems; the downtime while waiting to regain all your energy is ridiculous... and because the entire point of the build is to apply pressure, stopping to wait for energy gain is folly.
 * Now, Edrain is the best choice for the last slot; the net energy gain is 9, as Faramir pointed out, but you do something that most builds don't; energy denial. Don't make the mistake of thinking Energy Drain is solely for your energy.
 * Next... I have yet to see someone name a better elite for the job. I'm inclined to believe that this is because no better elite exists. None of the sin elites do fine; even some of the other old-school e management elites (OoB, mantra of recall) suck for this.
 * And for the love of god... stop calling this a variant. This is the standard assacaster. That bsurge "sig spiker" is horrible with energy and is outclassed in every way by this build, which is why we're about to archive it (the sig spiker does more damage? No, it does not; this build's energy management combined with a slightly more spammable combo makes this the better build for damage, too). - Auron 09:21, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

Actually, I like the RM Version a great deal. If you think the Sig Spiker is still good, pls go back to PvE. Assassins do not have a great deal of E ffs. If you think they do, pls fail less and actually play a sin. tybbqq. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 09:35, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

Try replacing Enduring Toxin with the resurrection signet for AB, it's such a 'funny' snare, and works like a charm. Maayan aKa silence 11:14, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

I suppose you do have good points Auron+Readem, but sins do have 4 energy regen. Faramir (<font color="Red">contributions ) 17:39, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * So do all the other spellcasters, and guess what: They all use energy management. Zulu Inuoe 13:17, 5 August 2007 (CEST)

Shadow Form
Now we all know that shadow form is completely noob in PvP. But I've seen this run with the above skill and it works, surprisingly. My team were so noob that when I used shatter enchantment and had him without enchantments running on about 50 or less health the team didn't even bother to chase him, they just let him live under shadow form again. I shoulda smacked shame on him, too bad he ran too fast x/ <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^  <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 21:51, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * How did you Shatter shadow form? Napalm Flame hax! --Edru viransu 21:54, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * People who use Shadow Form are scrubs. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 21:56, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * War Machine = scrubs? --Edru viransu 22:00, 12 July 2007 (CEST)
 * WM doesn't play foo. And I wasn't talking about gud guilds who can run anything :P. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 18:59, 13 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Yep. lol, I didn't shatter shadow form, though I love being considered a hacker... lol, the truth is shadow form came off of him so then he dumped on feigned neutrality, and I shattered that. Fun. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  ^_^ [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 22:29, 12 July 2007 (CEST)

My version of this build
Ive been running my own version of this build for quite a while.

Deadly Paradox, Shadow Prison, Iron Palm, Augury of Death, Entangling Asp, Dancing Daggers, Signet of Toxic Shock, Auspicious Incantation. 12+3+1 Deadly Arts, 12 Inspiration Magic. Duel knock down is great and AI provides excellent energy management. Some may not like it because there is no self heal but I don't like running heals on my sin builds. Lady Shankara 11:38, 15 July 2007 (AEST)

Even thought this is coming in really late, shouldn't a Shatter Enchant have killed that sin, unless you had really low Dom magic but then why did you have shatter? Araziel 00:46, 30 November 2007 (CET)

Variant
Here's another variant I've been running with success. Works pretty much the same, not as big a spike, but channeling really helps with energy because of how close you are all the time and augury. Try it out.--Thc 22:48, 15 July 2007 (CEST) [build prof=A/Me][Augury of Death][Dancing Daggers][Crippling Dagger] [Deadly Paradox][Channeling][Energy Drain][Feigned Neutrality][Resurrection Signet][/build]


 * Interesting. Possibly outside of RA, you might want to replace Crippling Dagger and Res Sig with Entangling Asp and Sig of Toxic Shock, to retain the damage of the version with only EDrain. --Edru viransu 01:15, 16 July 2007 (CEST)

gr8
Change to gr8 plx. -- <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 05:35, 15 July 2007 (CEST)

The title says it all... Just how exactly does that work anyway?--Midnight08 06:21, 17 July 2007 (CEST)


 * Rofl... name ownez though. --[[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 06:27, 17 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Maybe the build was less effective several months ago than now for some reason or another? Or maybe just because sup runes are bad. --Edru viransu 06:28, 17 July 2007 (CEST)

No, no, look at the name... fukin hilarious. -- <font color=#6e8b3d>frvwfr2  (talk · contributions) 06:30, 17 July 2007 (CEST)
 * Between the crazy name and the fact that its nearly exactly the same as this build i still had to bring it up tho lol. It was noted in that builds discussion, but had to be here as well... Most notable are the horrid votes that are a testament to the old system.--Midnight08 07:05, 17 July 2007 (CEST)

Hurray, somebody mentioned a build Zulu made, Zulu's life-long goal is complete! Also, with the improvement to Ether Feast, it's a viable self heal now, which allows you to run the build on basic 12 Deadly Arts 12 Inspiration, and I run a Major rune now instead of a Sup one. The point of Energy Drain is that the other casting Assassin builds usualy have long down times in which they're wanding(Not even meeting Wand reqs.) and waiting for energy to recover. When I first made the build, Energy Drain allowed for consistent pressure that could be kept up almost indefinetly. A user abover mentioned that the build doesn't use as much energy as others, that's correct, another user mentioned Energy Drain's energy gain isn't too much, but since it's not really using that much energy then it can afford to run it in order to deny energy to your opponents as well, Ether Feast helps in these ends, making a build that pressures your Health, while annoying your Energy, and is capable of both doing small spikes by itself, or assisting in spikes. Zulu Inuoe 01:07, 5 August 2007 (CEST)

There was a team build similar to this which I cannot find
It looked a lot like this both in premise and skills, however it was a duo build with. One 'sin with assassin's promise and another with keystone signet. They used arcane mimicry on each other to quickly switch targets and release a tremendous amount of damage. Did anyone happen to remember what I'm talking about. Did anyone save it or download the template? Seb2net 09:58, 24 July 2007 (CEST)
 * I remember the build back from guildwiki, it wasn't that great and was voted unfavored because the trick had too many opportunities to be interrupted and wasn't that quickly executed. By now it's probably deleted. But I don't have the build idea. Plus it was made back when templates were pretty new and people didn't record them on the page so I doubt you'll find anyone with it. So sadly the best thing to do is just try to piece it back together. I remember it was one player's responsibility to shadow step in. Then use black spider strike and blinding powder (I don't recall if he used a dual attack) to prep the target for the signet spike. Sorry I'm not that helpful. Wyvern 03:54, 25 July 2007 (CEST)

Hero Battles
Why on earth does this have a Hero Battle Tag? Teutonic 06:54, 26 July 2007 (CEST)


 * it owns hero monks, if you have good timing. - <font color="#336666">Skakid9090 07:13, 26 July 2007 (CEST)

Another Variant
[build prof=assas/monk deadly=12+1+2 prot=12][Augury of Death][Dancing Daggers][Entangling Asp][Signet of Toxic Shock][Deadly Paradox][Disrupting Dagger][Zealous Benediction][Resurrection Signet][/build]

I like this build a lot more for RA, to be honest. Zealous is an awesome self-heal, and is great for team support, and Disrupting Dagger is useful for stopping people from using Res Signet or other powerful skills. If you want, you could always take two out of Protection Prayers and one out of Deadly Arts and stick 10 back into Shadow Arts for something like Shroud of Distress. Both seem to work equally well - one gives more offense, while the other gives more defense, and is useful in stopping people from spiking you so badly. - Vermain 06:47, 1 August 2007 (CEST)

Omfg
I'm really getting tired of this, i say there already is a build like this posted so i give it a low score... Then you guys ask me where? Then I say it in a new rating and it's removed again. Can u plz fucking tell me why? Dark Morphon 18:18, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Because there isn't another build like, this, and also the build vetting policy says not to vote badly based on the presence of duplicates, anyway? --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me 18:20, 4 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Build:A/Me Lyssa Power Go, what is this then? Dark Morphon 17:12, 5 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Pretty sure that build was unfavored under the old GuildWiki vetting system. - Vermain 18:09, 5 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Yeah true, so why r votes being removed in which they say this build alrdy has been done be4? Dark Morphon 18:23, 5 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Lots of updates since the old vetting system.... build works alot better now. Also  "and also the build vetting policy says not to vote badly based on the presence of duplicates"  in other words, try the build... then explain why the build works or doesnt work. Just saying "old build didnt work" ignores the current build and any changes to the game. --Midnight08 19:13, 5 August 2007 (CEST)

Just so you know, I named it Lyssa Power Go, because I love Lyssa, and wanted an Assassin/Mesmer or Mesmer/Assassin build because they're both primarily aligned with Lyssa. The name itself came from 12oz Mouse on Adult Swim where the lady in the bar goes "Man Power Go!". Zulu Inuoe 08:14, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

[build prof=assas/monk deadly=12+1+2 smit=12][Augury of Death][Shadow Prison][Entangling Asp][Signet of Toxic Shock][Deadly Paradox][Iron Palm][Holy Strike][Resurrection Signet][/build] This out-damages it easily, u might want to change SP for AP. Has a little bit worse energy management though. (usage = 5-1-2-6-7-3-4) Dark Morphon 16:03, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * It's decent, but it lacks good pressure, to be honest. Keeping up a 30-energy combo every ten seconds is going to leave you high-and-dry after only two combos, and if you get interrupted during any one of the stages, you don't have the nice spammable pressure of Dancing Daggers to compensate. Plus, there's the whole lack of a self heal which makes it poorer for RA and AB. - Vermain 17:26, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * It isn't pressure, it is a spike, simmilar to the SP sin, except that this is faster and has less recharge. E-management is pretty much crap though... Dark Morphon 19:25, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Honestly, I've found the Dancing -> Entangling -> Signet -> Dancing sequence to be more than enough for RA or AB spike, especially if you throw in Disrupting Dagger there somewhere. You also have the benefit of a more diverse Elite selection, as well as the ability to attack at range. I can usually take down normal casters in one go (unless they're armor-stacking Earth Elementalists) and Monks with only the slighest bit of help. All you need is quick enough fingers to interrupt their vital skills like Zealous Benediction, and Disrupting Dagger works wonderfully for that purpose, since Deadly Paradox makes it an almost instant cast. - Vermain 22:40, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

bullshit rating removal
''Rating: This build has been around a while. The spike is gimmicky and requires assistance to bring down from full. Plays similarly to virulence spiker (IMO) and suffers the same problems in that it is a caster spike with high energy usage, high recharge and very low inherent DPS or utility.''

''Reason removed: not a spike... not long recharge... not lacking utility... Removed by: Edru viransu''

Not a spike... yet it is clearly stated: "Spike with Augury of Death -> Dancing Daggers -> Entangling Asp -> Signet of Toxic Shock" This is NOT a DPS build, WTF? DPS is about 45-50ish (not including DW) ASSUMING poison doesn't get removed and you don't run into energy problems. I can do better DPS with a flare spammer and have less energy problems and have twice the range. And if I wanted to, I could even put Augury on my flare spammer too.

Utility: this build has damage and one expensive knockdown. Does that honestly count as having "utility"? Please....

This is why PvX ratings are a joke - essentially, a few "elite" choose which builds they like and censor all opposition via unrestricted rating removal, even when those ratings have perfectly valid reasons. This is called tyranny, and what you have is a farce of a "voting system." I don't mind if this is what you want, but heck, at least be honest about it. --Thc 04:39, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Why's everyone got their stirrups in a knot? It works well in every arena and a team build based around it has been succefully used multiple times in HA. If you want to rate this build low, it should be over its elite choice. - Vermain 04:43, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I don't even like this version of the build very much, so don't go QQing that I'm biased in favor of it. It's a pressure build, not a spike build. Read the first sentence of the bloody build. Having a spike in the build doesn't mean it's a spike build. DSlash builds have a weak spike(sever-gash-sunmoon/sever-gash-dslash), but they spam the spike like crazy for immense pressure. This build is somewhat similar, except with more utility. Btw, 45-50 DPS is pretty good. More than an autoattacking frenzied warrior with 16 in their weapon by ~20 or so DPS. KD spam is pretty strong utility. Also, Edenial. Most warriors have a good deal of utility, despite having only one or two snares, kds, or interrupts as far as utility goes. Also, it's somewhat obvious that a single build will not kill a full-health target "spiking"(quotation marks because it's not actually spiking) alone, because the things that can are imba and get nerfed. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 05:05, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * You can actually spike down targets in RA and TA pretty well with this. I once went on a 5-game win streak in TA where I was, quite literally, the only damage output on my team. We had an anti-melee Mesmer, a bonding Assassin (don't laugh, I don't think he got hit even once), a healing Monk, and me as an Assacaster. An unprepared Monk can be very vulnerable to this build, especially if you've got Disrupting Dagger in there to interrupt ZB or other vital spells. - Vermain 05:24, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Also, looping through dd-dd-sig on 60 AL is about 58 DPS, about twice frenzying warrior dps at 16 attrib. Haha. I just realized I didn't take into account the fc on all of the skills, either, which speeds it all up greatly, which thus increases DPS even further. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 05:29, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Well, sig's kind of iffy since everyone runs with Dismiss Condition nowadays, but DD spam is actually pretty impressive DPS, if a bit heavy on energy use. - Vermain 05:38, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Lol Thc, that's exactly what I was thinking, you have to rate exactly the same or it is removed... Dark Morphon 12:45, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Lol what a surprise, I vote it low and it's removed again >.>, man this rly stinks... Dark Morphon 09:41, 10 September 2007 (CEST)


 * I don't know how you are doing your DPS calculation, but I think it is wrong: DD every 3 seconds, SoTS every 8... that is, if you have perfect timing and your guy is always poisoned.  Comes out to about 45 DPS (+ poison).  NOT all that impressive, considering E problems.  --Thc 19:46, 12 September 2007 (CEST)


 * DD every every 2.5 sec, 1/2 cast, around 70 damage per 25-30 per DD. About 108 dps from SoTS+kd Poison/DW. Unblockable. You fail at DPS calculations and voting. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 01:23, 13 September 2007 (CEST)
 * DD has 2.5 recharge, and .5 cast time. Therefore, DD every 3 seconds.  "108 dps from SoTS"... what an incredibly asinine thing to say.  It also isn't very relevant to the discussion as Edru's figure of "dd-dd-sig on 60 AL is about 58 DPS".  I am wondering how he gets that number.  Does he include asp cast time too?  Is it long term DPS, or just a quick burst?  --Thc 04:29, 13 September 2007 (CEST)

Mantra of Recall
Am I missing something? It seems perfect for a build like this which can definitely burn 20+ energy in a short amount of time.Freakonut 05:28, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * It's not energy denial. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   05:29, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * He meant ur OWN energy, doh... Dark Morphon 12:34, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * EDrain does both. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   19:49, 12 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Lulz, I thought u were talking about the burning away 20+ energy thingie... Wateva xD [[Image:Aura_of_the_Lich.jpg|19px]]Dark Morphon 20:05, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

Why not this version? Only 2 attributes...
[build prof=Assassin/Any Deadly Arts1=12+1+3 Shadow Arts=12+1 ][Assassin's Promise][Deadly Paradox][Augury of Death] [Dancing Daggers][Entangling Asp][Signet of Toxic Shock][Feigned Neutrality][Resurrection Signet][/build] &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mazza558 (contribs) 17:45, 6 September 2007.


 * Deadly Paradox + Feigned Neutrality = win. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:47, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * That and if Assassin's Promise doesn't trigger, your energy management is basically gone. [[Image:Frenzy.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Brown">Punjab 23:49, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Well, 22 seconds for Assassin's promise is better than 25 seconds for going /Me? Surely? Either way, this one's superior for PvE IMO. In the mean time, I've change SR to FN.Mazza558 23:51, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * AP is kinda fail for emanagement on a deadly arts sin, because you can't guarantee a kill. In PvE, it would ownzzz, I guess, but I'm wondering how you fit Moebius and DB on a bar with Deadly Paradox and AP. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 00:07, 7 September 2007 (CEST)


 * The whole point of Assassin's Promise isn't to start a spike with it but to finish off with it when the opponent is near death. It works quite well, I use it all the time in AB. Unreal Havoc 14:04, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

Master of Magic... Lulz?
Lulz that no1 thought of that... Go ele primairy and take it and u have both a lot of energy AND good E-management xD Dark Morphon 20:09, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
 * To make it worthwile, you would lose 12 attribute points to E Storage and lose the e-denial aspect, as well as be forced into wearing more fragile armor. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   20:14, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Well yes you have to spec in E-storage but what else do u want so spend points in? You r right bout e-denial, that's gone but as you want a long-recharging spell let's say... Kinetic armor? [[Image:Aura_of_the_Lich.jpg|19px]]Dark Morphon 13:15, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

GvG
Add tag? Rawrawr 19:56, 2 October 2007 (CEST)

BOOOOO
A-net uberowned this build. Might need to be archived :( ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  00:52, 23 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Only one or two seconds on most of your skills. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 01:08, 23 October 2007 (CEST)

Well this version always sucked anyway. Dark Morphon 17:34, 23 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Nah. Not the best, perhaps, but not bad. Perhaps would've been better as a A/any with no elite and say to stick whatever elite you want in the optional slot, though. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 22:39, 23 October 2007 (CEST)

Either way, I think we should let the general assembly of pvxwiki descide. Remove all votes and have people revote. IMHO. ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  00:49, 24 October 2007 (CEST)

Backfire
Who the hell puts Backfire on a 'sin? --71.229.204.25 04:13, 29 October 2007 (CET)
 * A smart mesmer. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:14, 29 October 2007 (CET)
 * Not an abundance of those. :) --71.229.204.25 04:16, 29 October 2007 (CET)

Does any1 even use this?
This is just a terrible variant on the SoJ sin, why do we even have it here? Does any1 even use this? Energy Drain is the worst elite to be put in this build, has waaay too long down-time to be effective and is therefore a gimmicky poo skill in the build. Also as I alrdy pointed out we have the SoJ sin on the site so why is this still here? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dark Morphon (contribs).
 * Why keep all these ranger builds? Rangers are just there to lug around dshot, we don't need all these variants. --71.229.204.25 11:14, 5 November 2007 (CET)
 * That's not what I said. I said this is a terrible variant which is totally unneeded as no1 uses it anyway. So my point again: Why keep this crappy variant? [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]Dark Morphon 16:57, 5 November 2007 (CET)
 * The answer is no. It sucks in comparison to the SoJ deadly arts assassin, Its inferior and has exactly the same use. I dont understand WHY it is still here.--Shadowsin 17:06, 5 November 2007 (CET)

SOJ is the best Assassin Caster at the moment. This is relatively poor in comparison. <font color="Blue">Unreal Havoc  17:40, 5 November 2007 (CET)
 * Then why is it still on the site? [[Image:Image-Dark_Morphon's_Siggie.jpg‎]]Dark Morphon 14:37, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * Don't ask me, I'm not the majority. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Unreal Havoc  00:01, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Maybe A/E
Glyph of Immolation anyone? Not sure what the elite would be maybe Mind Blast but DD+Burning could be pretty good. As long as you have 8 in fire magic you get 3 uses so 2 DD then Asp with the burning could work out nicely XvivaX

It would have to be E/A: [build prof=e/a fire=10+1+1 energy=10+1 deadly=11 ][mark of rodgort][Augury of Death][mind blast][Dancing Daggers][crippling dagger][Deadly Paradox][fire attunement][Resurrection Signet][/build] Constant pressure with burning + dagger spam, plenty of energy, lacks utility and spiking though. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Brown">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 10:36, 6 November 2007 (CET)

I take that back. Produces a maintainable 40-50 DPS, which isn't worth the loss of spiking. And by taking Asp -> Signet you lose too many skill slots. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Brown">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 10:41, 6 November 2007 (CET)

This is more what I was thinking: [build prof=a/e Deadly=12+1+1 Fire=12 ][Dancing Daggers][Entangling Asp][Signet of Toxic Shock][Augury of Death][Deadly Paradox][Glyph of Immolation][Mind Blast][Resurrection Signet][/build] You would need about 50 energy so that you can use Mind Blast on things like Rangers,Warriors, and Paragons after your first spike for it to work best I think. XvivaX

Mind Blast sucks on everything but eles, especially here since after your chain you'll already be at around 30 energy. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Brown">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 10:52, 6 November 2007 (CET)

Ya thats what I was thinking I just really want to see GoI on this build somehow XvivaX

Modifiy it?
Maybe change it to optional elite and optional instead of Feigned? Then add in some options to put in the optional slot so it can be used as the only assacaster build? Cuz no1 uses this, SoJ sin is way better. <font color="Black">Dark <font color="Black">Morphon  19:18, 10 November 2007 (CET)

Unarchive
In the light of the recent Mes update which merged PvP E-drain with PvE version, would anyone consider unarchiving this build? I've been running the build with same stuff as LA Assacaster, just with Pdrain and Edrain, 40/40 Insp set. I must say, could spam shit all day long, new Edrain on 12 Insp refunds 24nrgz and sucks 8, which, aside from Emanagement, is some serious added pressure. And, unlike LA, Edrain cannot be stripped, provides energy on demand and makes monks QQ in RA/AB/JQ where people still need to l2weaponswap. Anyone consider putting a wotewipe and putting it into testing again? --78.9.83.161 16:16, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * What happened is that the PvE Edrain got it's recharged upped to 30s. That's all. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 16:41, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Check Edrain on Wiki, or at least go try it in Isle of the Nameless. PvP Edrain doesn't exist anymore, it got replaced by the PvE version, which is both in PvE and PvP now. Edrain sucks 8 ene @ 12 Insp, and returns 3 points per point drained EVERYWHERE. I think it is a viable alternative to LA now. 78.9.83.161 16:44, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay? -- DANDY ^_^ -- 17:51, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now please, read the link you've so cleverly sent. "| has-pvp = y" got changed to ...nothing! Written in red font. Any thoughts concerning that?--78.9.83.161 18:20, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Chaos' point was that the recharge of Energy Drain was not buffed for PvP, directly or otherwise. Also, do the math. Excepting fairly early ench removal, LA is still better than Edrain. Tru ...hardly working 18:23, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are distinct differences between LA and Edrain. LA has no benefit from 40/40 insp, while when Edrain gets a HSR proc, it provides a energy gain spike on moderate recharge. Also, we have to count E-denial in the equation. Lyssa doesn't pack offensive power. Furthermore, LA's +nrgz regeneration is pretty unreliable. You get little bits of energy all the time, not exactly when needed. For example, you've just used Paradox @ 17ene, and have to wait until you reg up to 10 to use Asp. Edrain provides gain on demand. Not to mention the ench strip, bcause it's obvious. Different playstyles, different equip used. 78.9.83.161 18:32, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

How exactly does the PvE Edrain getting its recharged upped by 10s, and thus getting merged with the PvP version, make this build any more efficient? -- DANDY ^_^ -- 18:55, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you could come online on GW, i'd appreciate it. I've got your IGN, we could make all the things clear. 78.9.83.161 18:58, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

pdrain

(Same whoru, different IP address) Scratch everything i've said. Can't be bothered. 78.9.83.155 19:15, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * retard -- Short 19:17, June 21, 2010 (UTC)