Archive talk:Team - DTSC Kurzick FFF/Archive 1

TOC Above this
Whoever posted this.. GG -.- - 14:06, 2 April 2009

If it works I love you(pr0adam) 20:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Now if we can just condense this to 1 or 2 ppl with heroes then it would be perfect [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  20:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Muffin, that's called Discordway. 128.255.216.144 20:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * 20 MIN R SLOW...--Zaney 21:59, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

i lol'd at the acronym--Relyk 06:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait this is just 600 smite the whole thing?...--Relyk 06:33, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it works, high factions alliances use it the whole time. You basicly have 3 teams. Team1(west): 1 600, 1 RoJ (to kill the menders), 1 smite. Team2(mid): 1 600, 1 Smite. Team3(east): 1 600, 1 RoJ (to kill the menders), 1 smite. The concept is simple. 600 tanks, smite *kills* and the RoJ is the overpowered back-up. Main thing for the RoJ is to kill the menders. The only concern of the 600 is the knock down of the wardens and the Gaki's with their spirit (just walk back a few steps and dont worry about them). 77.167.185.147 20:57, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You can bring Ebon assassin support and "finish him" on the 600 to kill menders easily. Then you can have 4 teams or 600/smite. Much faster. ~  Jujipoo [[Image:Jujinicon.jpg|16px]]talk 01:43, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Since its not the savest way I dont advise that. For experienced players, yes. But for the newbies upon us I think it wont be very wise to try and advanced way. Just stick to this atm, if you rox at this you can try the way you proposed. 77.167.185.147 09:39, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol ;( I cant make a tutorial.. plx help me.. Its not that it needs 1 ;( RoJ = Damage, 600 = tank and smite = lazybum damager (also try to rate it)77.167.185.147 17:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I run DSC with 4 teams like a bajillion times a day. We are the largest Kurzick alliance because of it, and we own HzH almost constantly. You can do the whole place in 12-13 mins and it really isnt that hard. Start at the eternal grove. Just have one group go left, up that hill thing and scrape along the left side of the map, one group go all the way right to the rit bosses by going up along the river (to deal with The Skill Eater's Disenchantment spirit just back up a foot or two before he finishes casting to not aggro the spirit) and then scrape along the right of the map (head north after killing bosses). The mid-right goes the same way as the right but goes north up a route and then cuts through the map up the right-ish side, and the mid-left person goes directly north, up the little canyon that is right in the middle of the way...the mid-people mainly just deal with Warden (easier than they seem), the left person kills a mix of warden and mantis, and the right person kills mostly plants including the Rit bosses, undergrowth, kirin, those water elementalist plants, and a few warden up the line. I'll work on a map and upload it, gimme a few minutes. ~  Jujipoo [[Image:Jujinicon.jpg|16px]]talk 17:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, this is basically it (read my fatty comment above the image). Just remember to kill the mesmer boss and nearby foes as a team near the beginning (in the red circle), because the popups might overwhelm one person. The person who goes left has to kill the Necromancer boss then head north (about where the yellow line turns upwards), which i forgot to add, and the smite has to stay back because, while the necromancer boss looks like hes alone theres a million popups. BEWARE: don't go towards the wall behind the necromancer boss on the other side of the river because there are popups that don't have to be killed. I'm not so good at the routes for mid-right and mid-left, but I know where they start and basically you head north from there. I hope this was helpful, because i drew it in 5 minutes off the top of my head and i'm not so good at map-reading. Luckily, for the most part, the big ideas are all in there. This is way faster than the actual build page, so pls take note. Hope i helped! ~  Jujipoo [[Image:Jujinicon.jpg|16px]] talk 17:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll put it by the notes 77.167.185.147 20:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually Jujin, if you could rewrite the build page that would be nice. The better option should go there. I would do it, but I've never done this farm. Toraen 21:13, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I somewhat rewrote the build page and condensed/cleaned it a little, but I've never actually done any of these runs. Someone with experience should probably provide some kind of detailed guide, if necessary, as to what each team needs to do, mainly in special cases like the Rit bosses, Oni, and pop-ups that can be avoided. 130.101.94.118 02:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Arg, i think i just gave myself carpal tunnel typing precise instructions for every route. I'm not so experienced with the Mid- paths, so if anybody could update, would be appreciated. Anyways, enjoy :D ~  Jujipoo [[Image:Jujinicon.jpg|16px]] talk 02:33, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Name
It needs one that isn't entirely an acronym so people can find it. Any suggestions? Toraen 23:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * DSC Kurzick Faction Farm. Andy 23:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with it. 77.167.185.147 13:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't it be DTSC? Took me a while to figure out DSC. >< --Sam6555 16:15, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've seen both used almost daily. Andy 17:18, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see anyone running this. Where do you all usually start? I'm spamming Eternal Grove and Saint Anjeka's Shrine and all I see is level 19 A/Rts and such. 24.227.222.75 21:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is mainly guild teams running it - you will need to find a friend who can get you in on them, or join one of these guilds yourself if you want regular runs. Andy 21:53, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * FFF Drazach Thicket imo--Relyk 10:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not very clear. Should match the luxon equivilent imo - just clear up the fact its also known as dtsc at the top. Andy 12:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sort it out :s! I only know the run under the name DSC 77.167.185.147 14:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Make DTSC redirect here? Athrun Feya 14:07, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought is more than clear enuf than some retarded acronym >.>--Relyk 00:17, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Routes
Small request. If you run this build, could you take a screenie of your minimap and post it here and say which route you took? It'd be nice to have something a lot more accurate than, while appreciated, the quick MS Paint picture above. Cope Land 22:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Will do 77.167.185.147 14:03, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking forward to it. Can't wait. Cope Land 14:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

The routes here (at least R and MR are not the ones usually done nowadays. R should go south of the building, MR should come up the stairs to the westernmost point of the building before continuing to the plotted route.

Which smiter follows which route?
Well, yeah... Just something that hasn't been mentioned =)
 * Apparently figuring out that you just need some sort of smiter with each 600 is hard to do. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  21:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not very clear that they are just varients. Clearing it up now. Andy 21:48, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, now ain't we cheerful. Sorry for maybe not thinking too straight, but really no reason to be rude. In Mount Qinkai I know different smiters are used to adapt to the mobs met, I thought maybe it was the same here. Thank you Andy! =) -- Titus The Third [[Image:User_titus_the_third.png| ]] 21:52, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Now it is quite clear indeed Andy! I guess I should have understood this previous to your latest edit as well, but now that it's even more clear - that can hardly be a negative thing. =) -- Titus The Third [[Image:User_titus_the_third.png| ]] 22:06, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ty andy for making pages idiotproof for everyone...--Relyk 01:39, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

yay for germans
and their brave maps. this is for the 3-way run, but wotev.



··· Danny   Does   Drugs  04:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Frenchies win too. French forum with guide inc/ maps. Andy 15:06, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But their maps aren't as pretty. Also, you have to speak french and who the fuck bothers to learn that anymore? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  21:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Luckily the french realised nobody wants to learn it, and so they decided to learn English. Its also the only place you seem to be able to get a pug for this. Andy 22:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

4 smites?
Thought this ran 3 tanks, 3 smites, and 2 roj =\--Goldenstar 16:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats a slower version, usually starting from SAS. That build was originally on here before somebody put up the current ones. Andy 11:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Noob question
Is this for HM or NM? Can it be done solo?--ValeV 14:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * HM, and yes - it just takes longer. Andy 15:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I will answer to myself now. HM and yes, you can do it alone. :)--ValeV 15:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Mhm, I just vanquished area and got 5k kurz points. How do you get 17k?--ValeV 15:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Get the Blessing of the Kurzicks from the Kurzick Priest by the shrine. Andy 17:51, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

how long run usually takes? Playing Is Srs Bsns 18:10, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Like 15 minutes. And ofcourse I took the blessing -_-. Do you take just for kurz points or for kurzick+luxon?--ValeV
 * Don't know why you only got 5k. Even if you could take luxon blessing, all the luxon faction would be lost when you donated the kurzick faction. Andy 19:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll try again tommorow. 1 more question. Anyone have guild I can join for farming this? I want to max kurzick title. My IGN is Monistic Valev (and I'm not noob!). --ValeV
 * Your initial question declares just how much of a noob you are. Also, maxing Kurzick is something you should only do if you're 29/30 for GWAMM. Even just getting r10 is a painful and slow process. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  21:43, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe he does have 29/30. And actually, it's not so bad - especially since you can literally afk as a smiter. 17k faction (34k title) for browsing the web and moving every few mins, the title quickly racks up. Turn up at Mo/N to euro french dis and you'll get team invites at any decent euro times. Athrun Feya 21:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still a rather long grind. And if he had 29/30, he wouldn't have been asking if this was for NM or HM. Hypotheticals are bad tbh. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  22:06, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You still can't assume that - there are a lot of terribaed r6 koabds around. The grind is a reasonable alturnative to money titles (sweet tooth, etc) for those without decent guilds to run elites and dungeons. Athrun Feya 22:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You can get sweeth tooth maxed in a total of 36 hours of vaettir farming. Your point is invalid. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  22:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Ye ok. Whatever. What is 29/30 of GWAMM?ValeV 05:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * lolautist. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  07:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, youre right its invalid, but only when there are special events, the rest of the time its perfectly reasonable to, say, DSC over max Party Animal. Also, the droprate was signficantly lowered at 4th birthday celebrations. Although youre right about this guy, he's clearly clueless Athrun Feya 23:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * so what's 29/30 of GWAMM lol--Relyk 18:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 29 out of 30 titles maxed out for God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals Tha FreeStyler 20:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Variants?
What do/can you take instead assassin support and finish him?--ValeV 19:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw you in game today! I'd stick to smiting Athrun Feya 16:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm famous! :P--ValeV 19:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

The DTSC with three teams (usually run from German dis Anjeka's shrine) can be run with a Rit600 as "West-Tank" i.e. Rit600+ SB monk + smite monk (Silicon Based 12:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC))

Video
Here are the vids I made for the middle/east way. Sorry there isn't such for the west one... Can't find the time even to record it. :S East: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uejFSIRkio Middle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rabLPZH2rb0 --Dealey 17:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Um, where do you start from?--ValeV 16:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Saint Anjekas Shrine--Dealey 06:51, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

german and their leet builds
I just saw you add builds for germans, but no guides...--ValeV 22:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because the usage is the same. A perma can also be enchanted with all maintainables.80.56.148.251 07:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * So why we dont use perma instead 600? :)--ValeV 09:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

People use permas, it's just the fact there are more monks looking for parties.  ¡DeAl€Y!  11:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am the one who put up the german way. The Permas are used as "diplomats", they bring the warden and mantis together so they kill each other. There are two regular 600/Smites. One route is taken by the 600RoJ 1 regular smite and the SB "smite". &mdash; Balistic PvX 14:22, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Equipment
Superior rune or just minor for the 600s?--Felix.A 18:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Archive:Team - DTSC Kurzick FFF &mdash; it says


 * Superior Protection rune, Minor Divine rune. Standard 600 set up (low armor, etc.)
 * At least 20% enchantment.
 * &mdash; Balistic PvX 18:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah,someone changed this. You need over 800hp for holy wrath to do 53 damage (at 16 smite),adding sup runes is unnessecary. Athrun Feya 17:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You might want to update this to what runes you need EXACTLY. Major/Minor/Superior? One Divine favor and the rest max vigor you can get? --[[Image:SigKarasu.jpg|19px]] Karasu (talk) 11:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It already says exactly in the builds. Ever guessed what 12+3+1 means?  athrunfeya [[Image:User_Athrun_Feya_sig_image.jpg]] speaks  20:50, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What about insignia's.. attunement and vigor runes.. -_-' [[Image:SigKarasu.jpg|19px]] Karasu (talk) 13:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A) You need 780 health. B) Stop being Autistic. Survivors on the 600, whatever you fucking feel like on the Smite. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  16:40, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Few things...
Three things; 1. this page is a mess, so going to clean up. 2. never seen anyone in german dis form, apart from at faction weekend, is it really worth having here? its not quite as pug friendly as frenchyway 3. bip smiter just generally badAthrun Feya 17:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Running with a Perma isn't as popular, but it is a lot faster, so it's worth having around. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:15, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How long does the perma usually take per route?[[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]]uɐɟ ɐʞıd  o ^_^ o  ¸ <font color="#FFCC00">« <font color="#FFCC00">` 18:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's honestly not much faster, if at all. The rit bosses are fairly easy to kill, and frenchway is generally faster with a team that knows what they are doing because each route tends to take around the same time. [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]]<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">uɐɟ <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">ɐʞıd  <font color="#FF0033">o <font color="#000000">^_^ <font color="#FF0033">o  <font color="#996600">¸ <font color="#FFCC00">« <font color="#FFCC00">` 01:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Imo Saint Anjeka's Shrine is a better start because the run itself starts a lot faster (even if there are dragon mosses). You can't compare it to the clearing time at Bezzr + the chance mantid to engage wardens... Probably it's all about 2 minutes time, but it's a speed clear.-- ¡DeAl€Y! [[Image:Ray_of_Judgment_19.jpg]] 06:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What I like about frenchyway is how safe it is - you have a few retarded 600 or smite but everything can still be done by anyone, but in germanway if your perma dies early, or RoJ 600 team get wiped, its much slower. There's a balance between how risky and quick you can be without failing and being slow and safe. Is there anyway we can have the route pictures for the normal way side by side (invisible table or something) and if so can someone code that for me (wikicode is beyond me entirely), would neaten up the page. Also stop changing the prot rune on the 600 to a superior - as I said you need at least 800 health for holy wrath to do 53 damage, -75health isn't going to improve the situation Athrun Feya 10:53, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, what are the attributes on the RoJ 600 meant to be, they're clearly currently wrong... Athrun Feya 11:01, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If your perma can't maintain Shadow Form, it would be in your best interest to tell him to uninstall gw. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  14:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Cuz pugs never do this. Andy 14:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Massive server lag is probably going to cause an entire run to fail, tbh. Also, don't run with pugs doing Germanway. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  14:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I said Pugs not servers. And why is lagspike going to cause a smiter to die? Andy 14:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I mean "fail" in the terms of taking 20+ minutes to do a run. If you want to do speed runs, don't use a pug. Are you seriously autistic? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  14:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Server lag would affect guildies/friends too, so stop making stupid comments. 20 seconds of lag would make a perma die, and has nobody there to res. If a 600 dies from 20s of lag, smites res's rebonds and continues. Slowing a team down by 30 seconds isn't going to make a run take over 20 minutes. Andy 16:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * People, regardless of how amazing or experienced they are (or claim to be, Danny) still fuck up sometimes due to lag or even lapse of concentration after upteen runs. But pugging this frenchyway is fine. Even with significant failures this 'speed run' is still faster than vanquishing the area by yourself and still one of the fastest, if not THE fastest way, of gaining faction.. that's why people do it and that's why its named a "speed clear". Not pugging won't get you perfection, it will just get you consistency - something mr autism seems keen on Athrun Feya 17:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what kind of ISP you have, but I've only twice ever had lag so bad that it caused or could have caused me to die as a perma, at least since I got off of dial-up. Once was during a storm while in Ravenheart Gloom at the second group of Forgotten - well-known for its lag causing properties. The other was during Easter weekend, when every player with a perma was farming Jaga Moraine non-stop. I've never in my life experience 20 seconds of lag bad enough to keep me from making sure I was able to press 1-2-3. High Ping is never an excuse - you just have to send the keys earlier. Most people who have ever played any online game understand this concept and accept it as part of playing online. Not to mention, if your center 600 isn't terrible, he or she shouldn't take any longer than the left or right teams to finish, meaning all that's left is what you didn't manage to pull together before you died. That said, many permas don't die because of lag, they die because they cba'd to maintain shadow form and blamed lag. I know from experience. The assumption with Germanway is that you have a perma who isn't going to cba to shadow form, just like you'd assume you'd have 600s who wouldn't cba to keep up prot spirit. (Sorry for the massive amount of text.) ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

iirc, there aren't any forgotten in Gloom. Server lag has been really bad lately btw.  Life  18:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Danny, you totally missed the point. To quote andy "I said Pugs not servers" - if a pug fails the number one reason for doing so is "lag" 95% of the time this is not geniune. Also you forgot the most vital point your assumptions, sure both perma and 600 can fail to maintain something but only one of these is being followed by a smite bitch with res and only one of these could get back being useful within a minute of dying. And yeah, no Forgotten in Gloom, better luck next time. Athrun Feya 18:24, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Whispers, whatever. I cba to remember details. Don't bring a terrible perma is the point, btw. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  19:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you fail at PvE you're fucking terrible, end of. Nai Bomb 19:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Better/Faster Build
east team: tank: [build prof=Mo/N cur=12 pro=11+1+2 div=6+1][Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Shield of Absorption][Spiteful Spirit][Necrosis]["I Am Unstoppable!"][Vital Blessing][Essence Bond][/build]

middle: tank: [build prof=Mo/N smi=12 pro=11+1+2 div=6+1][Protective Spirit][Shield of Absorption][Spirit Bond][Defender's Zeal][Necrosis]["I Am Unstoppable!"]["Finish Him!"][Vital Blessing][/build]

smite for both: [build prof=Mo/? smi=12+1+3 pro=3 div=12+3]["By Ural's Hammer!"][Blessed Signet][Spell Breaker][Blessed Aura][Balthazar's Spirit][Retribution][Holy Wrath][Rebirth][/build] take serpents quickness/glyphe of swiftness if u dont have urals hammer)  west team:   tank: [build prof=Mo/D pro=11+1+2 div=6+1 scy=12][Protective Spirit][Shield of Absorption][Spirit Bond][Wounding Strike][Mystic Sweep][Asuran Scan]["I Am Unstoppable!"][Mindbender][/build] (asuran scan can be replaced with aura of holy might)   smite: [build prof=Mo/P smi=12+1+3 pro=3 div=12][Blessed Signet][Great Dwarf Weapon]["By Ural's Hammer!"][Strength of Honor][Succor][Retribution][Holy Wrath][Cautery Signet][/build] take rebirth instead of urals hammer if u got a fail tank) sb: [build prof=Mo/E air=3 pro=12+1+3 div=12+3][Spell Breaker][Glyph of Swiftness][Blessed Signet][Blessed Aura][Life Attunement][Balthazar's Spirit][Vital Blessing][Rebirth][/build] runner: [build prof=A/Me ins=12 dead=2 sha=12+1+3 cri=2+1][Deadly Paradox][Shadow Form][Ether Nightmare (Kurzick)][Cry of Pain][Radiation Field][Spirit of Failure][Death's Charge][Channeling][/build] (death charge can be replaced with w/e u like) use an Essence of Celerity. u can however take arcane echo instead of death charge. with an essence the record is 7min (6min possible). sb-smiter need -5energy weapons/20%ench staffs. switch during fight to your low energy set to "hide" 15 energy.

Smiter Replacement Ranger
[build prof=R/Mo Marksmanship=12+1+3 Wilderness=12+3][Dual Shot][Forked Arrow][Triple Shot (Kurzick)][Serpent's Quickness][Broad Head Arrow][Favorable Winds][Kindle Arrows][Essence Bond][/build]

Equipment
 * 20/20 15^50 +1(20%) Longbow

if anyone likes to write this on build page go for it ..i'm not familiar with this wikistuff sry. ګ╠╣‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‭ٱ ® α 18:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ofc its faster, but why waste an EoC when you can finish in 9 mins and save 2.5k a run? Andy 18:29, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Riiiiiight. We want a build that's at least reasonable safe and viable for pugs as its one of the few very effective things to pug (you dont rely on a single player being good at a single build). Stuff like this would take ages to form for, and the outcome isn't really signficantly better to justify the changes, considering frenchyway can get 8 mins without consAthrun Feya 18:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * hmm ye its not very pug friendly..i just wanted to post it cuz i maxed kurz with it and i only played this with my guild ofc. the french build is ofc the pug friendliest ...only 2 differenty build yay..but it takes longer ...thou i never heard that they did 8min only 11/12. we just didnt cared about the money since we only wanted to max the titel as fast as possible. but using an essence in pug teams for smth like this is not that good i see...sry i posted it. however you can replace the west team from buildpage with the team i posted cause i think the scythe build ist much faster than the roj and you dont need an essence for that.. ګ╠╣‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‭ٱ ® α 18:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. I'm pretty sure too most guilds teams would take something more complex and probably quicker, but whether these builds or the pug friendly ones are posted on pvx is undecided. I generally try and lean towards making pug friendly builds which guilds can take and improve upon themselves. Testing time, thoughAthrun Feya 19:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And that's why we got a talk page :) a reference on the build page in the form of "On the Talk Page is a much faster build but also a pug unfriendly build. <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 19:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

And here's a golden rule, anything that requires a celerity shows you're a fucking noob. If you're good, you won't need game-breaking shit like cons. Nai Bomb 19:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * you can do w/o celerity..its just fast with 1 ..... ګ╠╣‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‭ٱ ® α 20:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Youre a fucking idiot Nai.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No I'm not, I'm just gud at gws. Nai Bomb 20:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * FEEDUHN DA TRULLLLZ ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  20:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Frenchway easily meets 8 minutes with PuG without EoC if people know what they are doing and don't die, so if we had EoC....<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">uɐɟ <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">ɐʞıd  <font color="#FF0033">o <font color="#000000">^_^ <font color="#FF0033">o  <font color="#996600">¸ <font color="#FFCC00">« <font color="#FFCC00">` 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

german variant
collapse it so it doesn't cover the entire page--Relyk 23:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also making stuff like this: Use and  together. neater, and dropping the german variant map and usage at the bottom of that sectionAthrun Feya 09:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * can someone add a usage for mainteam germanway? Athrun Feya 09:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I want usage for g3rm4nway too.--ValeV 12:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Usage is use your skills and don't be terrible about it. Nai Bomb 20:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, it really isn't so hard to do, it's even one of the easiest GW farms. Yeah, the paths are a little different for the german way, but you can always search a lil bit and you'll find some different guides at one place or another. People tend to do exactly what is written here (nothing else) which is totally wrong... The purpose of this site is helping and giving ideas for builds, so be open-minded :P ¡DeAl€Y! [[Image:Ray_of_Judgment_19.jpg]] 21:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actual it hosts builds, so it acts more like a guide. Team builds for farming should provide step-by-step for each character but no one cba to do it.--Relyk 23:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * we should probably just split it into DTSC FFF Germanway and DTSC FFF Frenchway, with the primary being Frenchway, since that seems to be more pug-friendly. We can add a disambiguation to the top of it to link to Germanway. (I figure we can leave Kurzick out since Drazach is in Kurzick territory, after all.) ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  02:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah thats what i'd rather do, and having kurzick in the name makes it easy to recognize cause of the retarded acronym--Relyk 03:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Do we want to slap this and MQSC in the farming meta while we're there? Athrun Feya 08:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Be bold.--Relyk 09:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Have fun  <font color="SeaGreen">athrunfeya [[Image:User_Athrun_Feya_sig_image.jpg]] <font color="SeaGreen">speaks  11:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely it should be named according to start location. Andy 11:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Eternal Grove is longer than Frenchway, and the name is already fucking huge. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  16:50, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

so
do you have to speak french to get a group? el oh el. if so, you should put a guide of what phrases to use so we don't have to convert the interface to french and half-ass it. --Mafaraxas 15:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No you don't have to. I was there this weekend, and most people speak either English, or German. I only ran with a few French dudes. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 15:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * most french players understand some english. I've been playing with a lot of spanish players, myself. =p ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * que --Mafaraxas 17:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was secretly hoping that you'd say noone spoke english and I would have to convert the interface to french and half-ass it, by the way. --Mafaraxas 17:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've run with a full German team once. The only English any of them knew was "hello", "i do not know", and "gg". :> ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * gg is a universal phrase ;o --Mafaraxas 20:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I ran with a full of team of germans too. Strange a German team starting from the french dis. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * insert appropriate joke about historical relations between the german and french here. --Mafaraxas 07:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats not what I meant. Germans in the French dis, while we have 2 DTSC builds, one called Germanway and one called Frenchway. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 09:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * insert appropriate joke about historical relations between the german and french here. --Mafaraxas 11:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Pug
double weekend is over -> pugging is over? French dis is EMPTY -- <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 23:59, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine for me. Depends what time you go, i guess. There are slightly less people, but that's due to the volume of people maxing over the weekends and will increase again when more people decided they need to farm .  <font color="SeaGreen">athrunfeya [[Image:User_Athrun_Feya_sig_image.jpg]] <font color="SeaGreen">speaks  00:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In what time zone do you live? Both France and Germany are on +1 or +2 GMT(UCT). Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, i'm in GMT - well technically it's BST atm.  <font color="SeaGreen">athrunfeya [[Image:User_Athrun_Feya_sig_image.jpg]] <font color="SeaGreen">speaks  08:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * France is in GMT+2 .. I live in the same timezone but usually farm at late hours. --[[Image:SigKarasu.jpg|19px]] <font color="Black">Karasu (talk) 10:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

People for some reason are shocked to see my Rt do this...
as if Monks are the only class that can 600... which makes it obvious that they just cookie cut. ive done DSC besides my Rt with a Necro and a Mesmer 600... so yea heres what i use(i like to use a Tengu helm cuz it has no armor but can be runed up) Smooth Criminal is to really stop the healers faster. i usually am the first one done. Oni's arent a problem either, just pay attention to the radar for pop up and cast yourself.

any questions, pm me. Tsukumogami Obaki

Also, my fastest run on MR was 7 min ;D [build prof=Ritualist/Monk Restoration=12+1+3 Spawning=3 Protection=12][Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Vengeful was Khanhei][Smooth Criminal][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support]["Finish Him!"][Vital Blessing][Essence Bond][/build] --Elite Bushido 15:18, 22 July 2009 (UTC):
 * :P u suck i got 8 mins regular 600 monk no cons no nothing. 71.141.250.97 03:09, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

well i have to wait for SB at a certain point to recharge on the smiter. --Elite Bushido 20:20, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

A variation of 600 for lazy ppl

 * K, i wanna point out 1 thing considering 600 monks here. I'm not gonna bother pumping out vanguard rank just to make vanguard sin support effective, nor i'm gonna bother doing quest for that skill. Instead of vangurad sin support + finish him, i use I am unstopable + spirit shackes. So spirit shackles on wardens of summer (menders) and IAU to prevent KDs from tree guys. Channeling can also be use instead of IAU but its more risky. So dont kick me from grps as soon as i ping build. Try it if u dont belive.


 * It's (a lot) slower. I rather put divine 12+1+3 to lengthen Spell Breaker.--ValeV 22:28, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * When killing menders yes, but i dont think its slower when killing wardens. I still make it in 15 min.
 * I can do it in 11 on a good day with evas + fh! =\--TahiriVeila 16:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Your rank doesn't really matter. 76.84.34.210 15:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ This. I can do it just fine with r2 Norn and r0 ebon75.62.2.53 20:35, October 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * 15 minutes (for any route) is a pretty bad run. Also, IAU can cause some problems as it adds to your armor. Also, if you are willing to use IAU, why aren't you willing to use Finish Him? 68.48.197.219 08:29, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

How to Better Runs
Here are some tips for 600s to speed up runs (on any route).

On using Spell Breaker
 * -You do not need Spell Breaker at all against plant mobs (though if a Kirin hexes you, you will need to cast SoA lest you'll lose about 30 net health per hit).
 * -You do not need Spell Breaker against mantid mobs. Spell Breaker is useful only to speed up killing Dreamweavers (who use ether feast) or to help against boss mobs, where there may be multiple Maelstroms that can get annoying. Against 3 mantid mobs, Maelstrom is not a problem as you can easily step out of it and you'll never get body blocked in.
 * -Some Warden Mobs will not require Spell Breaker. SB is useful against wardens to prevent Shatter Enchantment and to speed up killing elementalist wardens. Depending on the composition of a warden mob, and your own skills, you may feel comfortable aggroing without SB (pre-cast SoA so it gets shattered first). If you intend to kill an elementalist warden without SB, walk up next to him so he uses Shockwave, then cast EVAS. Otherwise the shockwave would kill EVAS instantly.

On killing Dreamweavers (and dragon mosses)
 * -If a mantid mob contains a mender and a dreamweaver, and you are not saving SB for a future mob, kill the mender first, wait for your EVAS to go away, then cast SB. SB is useless while your EVAS is out as the Dreamweaver can just ether feast it instead.
 * -You can survive against a Dreamweaver's hexes. Simply keep SoA up at all times. You may need a purge after the mantids die to prevent degen death though.
 * -When aggroing mobs with Dreamweavers (or dragon mosses) try to be downhill from them. If you are, you can back up so you are out of their spell range, but still in their attack range (which will be extended because of elevation). In this case they will simply wand you to their own death and won't cast anything as you are out of range. This is generally how you kill Dragon Mosses, as they have a very long attack range and this is easy to do. This allows you to save energy and not have to use SB.

On killing healers
 * -When killing Warden of Seasons or Mantid Menders, do not cast EVAS right away. Instead wait until they have attacked you and are not at full health. This will prevent them from attacking the EVAS. Also, if in a long fight with Mantids, wait for Healing Breeze to end on the mantid mender before casting EVAS
 * -Occasionally against warden mobs the Seasons will not want to attack you for a while. In such a case it may be best to kill off the warrior wardens to prevent KDs from interrupting you. To do this simply wait until they are low on health, and if you see one of them use Healing Signet, wait until that warden is back below 50% and use "Finish Him!" on it. Typically when against two warrior wardens, one of them will simply attack himself to death and the other will use Healing Signet. You don't want to use "Finish Him!" on the one that was going to kill himself anyways.

On proper aggro etiquette
 * -Do not cross a mob that someone has just aggroed. This typically applies to the start, when one person aggroes the close plant mob and the second person passes by to the Mantids (don't pull the plants into the mantids or you'll lose credit for a few kills). Wait a few seconds for the plant mob to finish aggroing the first 600 (about 2-3 seconds is enough) then pass. If you have waited long enough, anyone can pass by the mob and the plants will totally ignore them. Including smites.
 * -Don't aggro a mob that someone else has already aggroed unless you are quickly casting EVAS or "FH!" on something. If you split someone's aggro you will mess up their energy and will take more time, as some enemies will spend time moving over to attack you.

On spirit pulls
 * -Attacking a spirit will cause the mob that placed that spirit to aggro you, even if they are very far away. This is useful in general to pull mobs, and particularly useful to pull a warden mob away from another mob's healer (such at with the two warden mobs up top). Make sure your smite is aware of what you're doing and isn't standing next to you.

Hopefully the quality of 600s will improve =x 68.48.197.219 08:59, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Wtf is with the burning arrow ranger?? Jush 15:54, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure either, but it seems dubious. Unless you can pump at absolutely immense damage, a ranger is just not really gonna help here. That, and the build given isn't really gonna dish out huge damage (no IAS?). I'd vote to remove that. Yes, you can replace a smiter with another heavy damage dealer, but no, it's not as effective. That, and the grammar/spelling of the Ganksman section makes it look like it was written while the user was drunk or something.69.249.223.63 01:28, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ganksman
As per the above mini-discussion, I've removed the Ganksman alternative. It was written oddly, and was out of place in the article. I've yet to see a reason why a low-dps, condition-spam ranger would be preferable to a smite here (or even workable). If we can see one, by all means re-add it.69.249.223.63 01:34, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Skill changes with Feb 25, 2010 update
The following skills have changed in the February 2010 Skill Balances: What sort of impact is this going to have? Discuss. --02:35, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 600s: (monks) Spellbreaker, (eles) Obsidian Flesh
 * Smites: Holy Wrath


 * Some new builds:


 * /Any
 * The smiter just has to recast Holy Wrath. As it doesn't eat his energy now it should be easy.77.78.176.159
 * why would you change anything at all? a smiter with 40/40 would be fine for holy wrath
 * Anyone got a suggestion for Mesmer? The "SoI Smiter" no longer works because with 4 maintained bonds, the player has no energy regen, while Ether Sig does give alot, it has a 45 sec recharge, so not practical for keeping energy up for spamming Holy Wrath. Thoughts/ideas? --13:01, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly, the mere presence of that build on this wiki makes it the priority choice of smiters, even though most 600s will say, please don't use it. MeatyMan 21:16, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone got a suggestion for Mesmer? The "SoI Smiter" no longer works because with 4 maintained bonds, the player has no energy regen, while Ether Sig does give alot, it has a 45 sec recharge, so not practical for keeping energy up for spamming Holy Wrath. Thoughts/ideas? --13:01, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly, the mere presence of that build on this wiki makes it the priority choice of smiters, even though most 600s will say, please don't use it. MeatyMan 21:16, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

What about a vwk 600 rit and a smiter casting sb on him? The vwk would have all the prots he needed. I also think the stuff would be dead before hw wore off. If not the smiter could just go back in and recast. Would just have to be careful. The day of smiters being able to be stupid is over. I also like the vwk/sb smiter idea.
 * What about using the SoJ build posted on this page, but replacing SoJ with Echo so that Holy Wrath can be spammed better? MeatyMan 01:14, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meaty, if you mean for mesmers, the problem is having enough energy to spam HW, ie maintaining 3 bonds results in having only 1 pip of energy regen, and Blessed Signet won't help primary mesmer, since they not have pts in DF attrib. --01:34, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but you can always put essence bond on the 600 as they're always getting hit. There's also the the problem with knockdown from shield of judgement meaning that 600s have very low energy since not getting attacked a lot.

As a 600, I'm finding the knockdown from SoJ hurts energy wise, but at the moment ppl seem to just want to run that rather than the VwK/SB variant or something else :S Miss d evil 15:16, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Same here. It seems to me that SoJ does more harm than good in regards to the DTSC run.  Well, that Echo build has been posted on the  build page anyway, so hopefully people will start using that now. 208.207.36.19 23:22, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried the Echo route long before it was posted here. It worked out very unreliably and certain packs just couldn't be killed with it's damage output alone, admittedly this was largely due to people still using SoA and I haven't got around to re-resting it since. While it would provide a lot more damage now, I know it would at least create problems with the 600 staying alive in certain scenarios. Without SoA that extra bit of help with staying alive against oni or larger/double packs is put onto the smiter (with SoJ), while also working as a damage dealer. Unless the 600 or smiter is doing something wrong such as not managing energy properly or using SoJ against mantid dreamweavers and menders then energy shouldn't be a major problem. --Stanz3k 00:05, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

HW + SoA
I haven't seen this highlighted anywhere so I'm putting it here: Holy Wrath now calculates AFTER Shield of Absorption. This is why you see damage numbers decreasing down to 1. So if your 600 can get away without using SoA, the run should go faster and it's a possible extra skill slot to play with. In my personal experience I've even found using Shield of Judgement and no Shield of Absorption has been a better way of dealing with the Oni. --Stanz3k 15:44, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Currently experimenting with this on the 600:
 * --Stanz3k 16:09, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree on removing SoA from the 600 bar. Something to deal damage should be added. Maybe something like PI or another eotn skill would do.
 * I COMPLETELY agree with this, and I think the page should be edited to make SoA a Variant instead of the mainstay skill. Personally, I use Mending Touch. The Texas Hammer 17:07, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree on removing SoA from the 600 bar. Something to deal damage should be added. Maybe something like PI or another eotn skill would do.
 * I COMPLETELY agree with this, and I think the page should be edited to make SoA a Variant instead of the mainstay skill. Personally, I use Mending Touch. The Texas Hammer 17:07, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

quite slow
Unless people are still getting used to the new builds, this variation seems really slow - a run this morning took me 37 mins with a lot of the 600's and smites dying in the process. (i didn't die once however), is this build still in the "testing" phase then? also can the "useage" page be updated to allow new notes for example - ive found that casting JUST holy wrath on the 600 against ONIS does the trick as if you cast SOJ they are getting KD'd a lot thus allowing their shadow shroud to recharge quicker without them dying quicker and the 600s SF waring off quicker (since they are not casting spells while KD)
 * Dtsc is barely worth it anymore. You're better off grabbing a friend and vanqing it normally. Takes about the same time. Life   Guardian  18:52, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Our 2 man hero build clears it in 22-24 minutes, which was shorter than the last DSC group I was in... that took 30 minutes. --Lania Elderfire 04:51, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * So why dont you post those 2man builds? It will be easier for pugs (less players) and faster.--ValeV 11:56, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't this build be revetted if its so much slower than originally? I kinda of doubt this would still be classed as "great" if its taking 30+ mins for a run.. --Alex ! 13:50, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a pretty basic build, 2 critical scythe sins, a sabway on one set of heros, then a minion master, a healer, and a SoS rit physical support. --Lania Elderfire 17:53, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oni's and SoJ
Why has it been mentioned to not use SoJ on Oni packs so vigorously, when a reason has not been given? It actually works out better to use SoJ on Oni packs as it helps keep the 600 alive since he's not using SoA (and if he is using SoA then Holy Wrath will not do enough damage to kill them quick enough anyway!). Shadow Shroud recharging is not an issue since Shadow Form should be permanently on anyway. If anything the knock down helps keep them from casting it in the brief interval that it may not be on. Does anyone have any genuine reasons why this shouldn't be changed? --Stanz3k 14:43, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, the KD caused by SoJ causes downtime where the Oni's are not attacking. If the 600 is not being attacked then BOTH the 600 AND the smite are not gaining as much energy through Essence Bond.  This means that in a crunch, the 600 might not be able to spam Spirit Bond or keep Prot Spirit up, and the smite might not be able to spam Holy Wrath, causing the battle with the Onis to last much longer. MeatyMan 23:49, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Smite energy is a non-issue and the 600 should have plenty of energy or they're likely doing something wrong, regardless of SoJ. The bigger issue is dieing because you can't spam spirit bond fast enough and you don't have SoA. I've survived a few times without SoJ and SoA on 3 Oni, but it's far from guaranteed and it's a lot faster and more reliable to just have SoJ. Skipping SoJ on Oni was put in before people took out SoA (due to the impact on HW), now Oni should be dead before you would need a reliable energy income anyway (not that I've noticed that become an issue regardless). The issue here is, some people are still running SoA and thus skipping SoJ may work out better for them. But ideally, using the current up to date build, SoJ benefits more than it causes a disadvantage. --Stanz3k 23:47, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

A ingame map?
Is there an link for an in game map.. like a texmodish thing that shows the routes?
 * TexMod. &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic 04:12, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * And how do you run this ingame? MeatyMan 01:20, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * gww:TexMod &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic

Clean Up
I've done a bit of a clean up on the page to avoid confusion and make things a lot more presentable. The route map still appears to be different from what people usually run in my experience. Also, I don't really approve of there being 2 quite different variants within the same build page as it has caused a lot of confusion when forming groups, but hopefully it is slightly less confusing now. If people could agree on which works better though it would work out a lot better for all of us :). ---Stanz3k 12:40, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

State of this Build
It feels to me like this needs doing from scratch without so much variance and receiving a new build rating. I'm not in the boat that this is not viable any more, it's still very effective. But there seems to be a severe lack of anyone doing this lately due in part to the confusion since the last update (i.e. people taking odd builds such as SoA and slowing down runs) and the slightly less noob friendly approach. I still believe a lot can be done with these builds to optimise runs, but I imagine most of the build savvy people have got their r12 and moved on. Perhaps posting a new video of this being done well with up to date builds may renew some interest. ---Stanz3k

Possible For Sins to 600?
if it lasts long as hell for sins with +1+1 shadow arts, and due to them having high armor even with noob armor(if they didnt have starter armor on em) is it possible to do 600 sin partially naked or with 25 armor? or make it where ithe sins auto attaqck at range with a longbow of enchanting with to the pain to make it where they have -10 armor thus making it 15 armor total?

just tested it. WORKS GREAT, even made a thread on gwguru and peeps are saying it works. if someone can fit it in on the build page itll be much appreciated __

same skills as the 600(certain areas skills can change depending on path you take)

Shadow Arts +1+1+12 Prot 12 Deadly Arts 3

Equip: & TO THE PAIN Inscription MAX(for the -10 armor while attacking) Startor Sin Armor(if you ...suprisingly still have your sins startor armor no need for TO THE PAIN inscription instead use a +5 energy inscription on the staff) If you dont have startor armor get shing jae monestary 25 armor. this plus the MAX TO THE PAIN inscription (while attacking) gives you 25-10 = 15 armor...same as the monks can use max.(only while attacking xD)
 * Caster Staff with 19% enchants/20% enchants

do whatever the monks would do


 * notes= not as energy managing but still just as good. especially if you have a sin primary with eotn titles max...and are lazy for your monks eotn titles xD. Lithril 01:02, March 18, 2010 (UTC)