Build talk:Team - SoO Snoway/Archive 1

Fix it
You should fix the bars, it's earth prayers not earth magic --tÜrae£xy 18:41, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also they are A/D not A/P --[[File:Samsig.png]] 19:11, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Eucalypto: Fixed the error in N/A, Curses now at 10+3+1, not possible 12+3+1, because soul is at 8+1 and shadow 12

"Max shield Q. Command +10vs spike (for Fendi)" Is "spike" supposed to be piercing damage? Kind of confusing.
 * Yes, indeed, I fixed it, thanks for noticing. Please also remember to sign your posts! Gevalle Engel 07:04, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comments
My guild and I used to do the 600/smite way for this and it was definately a lot more user friendly then this but at the same time this is a much faster way to do the dungeon.--Jakool3 20:00, March 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Remove this build quickly.. before anet get wind of it.. :P.. works perfectly by the way.. actually faster than pre-nerf. --Saifon 18:26, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Just tested this in a PUG and it worked perfectly, 12minutes 3rd level. We had a few more deaths than pre-nerf and you had to manage more skills while running but overall the build is good.

Necro optional
Ran this build with the A/P in Gevalle's screenshot, who claims to have made this build, without the N/A, so it may be optional. 11 min lvl 3. 71.146.94.98 02:12, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Would be stupid to claim it as my own, it's pretty much the same as the old A/N for SoO except for foul feast... The idea from the team build came from Obsidian Fox, like you said. And yeah, like in prenerf, the necro is completely optional. Though you might want to take it to remove blind now, and maybe other conditions too... And nice run, 11mins, gj. Fox rules! ;) Gevalle Engel 07:40, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

EBSoH?
Why no EBSOH? When we were testing it we didnt seem to get close to the SF damage cap.Lia Shunpo 14:33, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah difinately use honor.. possibly over wisdom.. it's much faster for fendi --Saifon 21:58, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, you can let one of the sins that's not bringing anything, take it with him. Think in the screen you can actually see we did that. So, yeah, you can take it, don't even have to leave Wisdom out for it. I'll put it in. ;) Gevalle Engel 08:23, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The 11 min 3rd lvl above was with one ebsoh, one ebsow, one ebsoc 71.146.94.98 17:47, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

AoE
The AoE from Sandstormd. Doesn't it make the foes scatter? If so, the build is useless.--37er 13:35, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh, or you wall-trick block em, but you can't do that with da bauss --37er 13:37, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * You've never done this before, have you? (old or new). Yes, Fendi is blocked too. 71.146.94.98 17:47, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh yes i remember, but hes bloacjed in the middle of the room, i was thinking about walls hehe, btw ive done some runs, not a lot tho, like 5 or 6--37er 19:00, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

I have found it much easier to use N/A and then all three of the the ebons, this is a pug time run i did.

First bds since nerf?
First bds drop I've seen since nerf... Was a 14mins 3th floor, we had a disconnect team m8... could have been faster since he was the one with ebsoh... ahwell, gratz to Karagon and his Q11 Dom BDS! Gevalle Engel 21:34, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

tryp?
why triptofan and you are all weaklings?I found it kinda useless.HOWever this build is a nice way to get your BDS since the nerf--82.158.15.113 23:53, March 6, 2010 (UTC)--82.158.15.113 23:53, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Tryp is to make grouped mobs slow down (duh), but mainly to reduce their attack speed. The "weaklings!" you use, well I do, when you run and get melee on your tail so they won't hit for alot. But the original idea to put it in came from the 2nd floor where you have to kill the enchanted axes, those can give a nasty spike and possibly killing some of your team. "Weaklings!" would prevent that from happening. It's also usefull for other grouped mobs, so it's a nice and very usefull skill imo. Gevalle Engel 09:23, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

courage
Whats the point of bringing ebon battle standard of courage if everyone has conviction? Dr Rawr 22:57, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * stacks 96.13.22.94 03:16, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * 75% blocking + 50% blocking. Courage is a useless skill. Docta Jenkins 03:26, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Build:Team - SoO Snoway
So... this D/A variant ... can't bring any eotn optional, can't bring mystic regen, all for an extra ~2 dps? 71.146.94.98 17:24, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * But now more than just sins would be coming? Vennie 00:34, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad everyone has a sin for just such runs already-- Relyk  talk  04:41, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually the damage would be lower because of sfDr Rawr 13:37, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

i have doing this run a lot last week and i found is much easy to run as derv, cause sins die too easy (dunno why, same 70 armor), but there is a lot of idiot ppl that refuse to add a derv on team >.< and derv can run "Finish Him!" also, maybe can run Honor if u have a cupcake for extra energy... to all ppl that refuses a derv on party: _|_
 * dervish innate +25 health ftw? 81.149.162.11 01:29, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

So, can this be ran by a dervish if the dervish takes candy corn (or w/e the item is for +1 att.) to get 16 shadow arts for SF?? 69.108.73.103 01:57, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You'd need 4 different att boosting items for that (seeing as you can only reach a base of 12): Grail, Lunar Blessing, Candy Corn, and Golden Egg. If you want to blow 12 consumable items per run, go right ahead. That said, you don't need 16 Shadow Arts to maintain shadow form, it just raises your damage cap. Toraen -Gifts Plz [[image:ToraenSig3.png|19px]] 02:15, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Attack skill
I propose to change the attack skill from Victorious Sweep to Zealous Sweep because you have less energy problems. A lot of PUG runs have energy issues and they either use all energy on wards and don't have energy for SF which lead to a wipe (worst case scenario) or they keep energy for SF and don't have it for wars which leads to increased time to kill Fendi.
 * Or bring signet of pious light and not worry about attacking 66.240.8.178 18:06, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * And then wait 30 secs to trigger sand shards, noty. Ritualist  For  22:43, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah damage from a scythe and victorious sweep makes it more puggable-- Relyk  talk  22:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lmao damage from scythe? You're perma blinded from rangers at the end fight for 1. for 2. 30 second recharge? Signet recharges instantly if it removes an enchant. Plus it allows you to heal others without shadow stepping. Way better imo. Docta Jenkins 02:55, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * you don't have to hit with victorious sweep for sand shards to end kthxbai-- Relyk  talk  04:02, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of that you failure of a troll. My point is if it doesn't hit it doesn't heal, plus you're not doing damage with your scythe when you're blinded. Kthnxbai. Docta Jenkins 20:27, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Get a good A/P then you wouldn't get blinded! And if energy is a problem, then you clearly can't manage your energy, don't blame it on the build if clearly you're the problem... Gevalle Engel 20:15, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * The build works fine you fucking retard. I'm just stating variants trying to improve on it, which is why we have a discussion page. Go troll on Hello kitty wiki where kids your own age play, we only like manly trolls here. Docta Jenkins 02:14, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Stop with the NPA please and be a little more mature. I don't know what you're trying to argue at jenkins. I think the point of using a scythe or not is self evident though so there isn't any point of arguing further.-- Relyk  talk  04:09, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know NPA Relyk as does everyone else on PvX. I don't need a warning thanks much. Docta Jenkins 05:11, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Images
I moved this from the main page to here because it was just getting to long... and it wasn't really contributing to the whole anyway... Gevalle Engel 17:55, March 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * 2x 11mins run right after each other, with small break in between: Note that it is not an 11 min run in total, just 11 min in the 3'rd level

Page fail
Omg, this page is fail. cap 25 damage?!?
 * You write with A/N or N/A Fendi is faster. But kick the A/N and N/A build - Fail
 * You kick the most of the builds - Fail again
 * How long need a run on lvl 3? 10 min? 15 min? 45 min? first runer dont knew the normal run time and you delete this time pics - Fail


 * Most teams (pugs at least, I can't drum up enough people to speedclear in my guild/ally) seem to run without one, but I think it should be put back.
 * builds were not kicked, but cleaned up. overall a good change. I've tried to highlight the important optionals.
 * who cares how long it takes on the 3rd lvl alone? That's just bragging, really. What would be more useful is a total time.
 * Can't comment on aura/lod ... the majority of the damage comes from sand shards anyways.. I'd prefer "safer" optionals, but to each their own. 71.146.94.98 19:38, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty much quoting anon. A/N is viable, but pugs won't being using that, they'll just use 1 a/p and 7 a/d. Experienced groups will know whether they will use a/n or n/a if they want to. I'd appreciate if you could upload pictures of a single run for times on each level, for a general time of the run. All the skill bars were the same except for one skill, it makes the page much easier to read to have a general bar with those in optionals. The skills are left on the mini skill bars anyways. lod and aohm are options for more pbaoe damage, they don't have to be used, since not everyone will have to bring ultra defensive skill bars-- Relyk  talk  20:14, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which retarted greedy noob put in LoD in one of my builds?! Seriously, if you can't make builds, don't come here changing people's team builds. I'm putting everything back as I left it. QQ some more somewhere else if you don't like the layout. And if you want to know how long an entire run takes, maybe be smart and read+look at the 2 screens with 11mins on it and compare the time that's been played. And a totem axe? God, how noob are you ffs?! Gevalle Engel 19:35, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not your build, if you don't like that, go to guru or something-- Relyk  talk  04:11, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or just leave PvX until you've at least hit high school. It would break our hearts to see you go, but we'd get over it with time. ···  Danny So Cute    04:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * LoD or Aura doesn't contribute to anything, stop putting it in! And pugs do run A/N often, maybe if you'd actually run the builds you'd know. Only reason why a pug wouldn't take it is cause some noob doesn't have any skills and wants to come along. And I finished university, thank you very much. QQ some more little baby. Now, leave the A/N builds as they are, it should be there for all people to see, not just for yourself and a single few who know it before you removed it... Besides, you got no valid point to remove it. I suggest you go to TerraWay and clean things up there, it's alot more crappy there and flouded with builds... Gevalle Engel 07:36, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Going to a university doesn't make you intelligent reasonable obviously-- Relyk  talk  08:13, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * A purple kitten once ran in a field oh so happy as it could be, a hunter shot it and it got green from pure misery. Though it hopped on through the orange field like no one could believe. Never to be seen again was this hunter's weird beard. Gevalle Engel 15:36, April 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Gevalle, as I have done this trip with you, with Mr. Fox, and with others, the first few days after the SF nerf, I believe it wasn't actually made by you anyways. Second, knowing how long the 3rd level is, which is all that is in every single one of the screen shots, does NOT tell us the entire time.  By your own comments, there was a "small break in between" ... that is very subjective and does not say whether you started back at Vlox or not.  My rough estimates (I never remember to look at the time when we leave) put it in the neighborhood of the difference in hours played in your screenshots, but I don't consider my estimation to be accurate enough to put up on the wiki. 71.146.94.98 09:26, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * None of the builds belong to anyone... anyone can make builds with the available skills. And it's silly how some people argue on who used/made it first... that's just stupid. But I am arguing here about the fact that some people are putting in LoD while it doesn't contribute to anything. The only thing it shows is that they're greedy and want the hidden treasures. I've seen many people die because of those before nerf, I can imagine it getting even worse after if it would be used. So, it's not good to put in LoD for the dmg, the team or the total time, so leave it out of the build. And an entire run with a decent team should take about 20 mins (3'-6'-11') for the entire run, give or take a few. Gevalle Engel 15:36, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * i lol'd. ···  Danny So Cute    16:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Fleeting Stability
Can Fleeting Stability work instead of IaU? --God Kmil 12:04, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * What's the reason why you would use it? Not like it's hard to get IAU... That said, I guess you could, but for IAU you won't have to stop to cast it, to cast fleeting you would have to which would slow down the running imo. Anyway, test it if you like, I can imagine that it could work. Let me know how it was when you've tried it out... Gevalle Engel 17:27, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * No :) I was only wonder if someone try that because i dont wont to play my sin but i want to farm in SoO, but thanks for your opinion, I ll lose 20 minutes and catch IaU :)--God Kmil 19:43, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Snoew Strumm.
tbh you are supposed to run FH,Honor,A/P,A/N,rest A/D with Snow Storm →ⓟⓁⒶⒼⓊⒺ← 19:59, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

E/A?
Wouldn't an E/A running

Glyph of Swiftness/Deadly paradox, Shadow Form, Bed of Coals, Snow Storm/Whirlwind/Lava Font, Dark Escape/Great Dwarf Armor, Shroud of Distress, Drunken Stability/"I am Unstoppable", Ebon Escape

Atrib; Air - 5, Fire - 11+3+1, E-Storage - 4+1, Shadow Arts - 12

Work better as you can pop swiftness (if using) do reduce the spell times on coals and snow storm, thus causing faster dmg? And if using dark escape, have a less chance of dying? And also if using stability, dark escape would last indefinitely due to BU.

Or a mix of a/d and e/a?
 * 1. Eles are MEGA SQUISHY. As if sins aren't enough. 2. Sinway has a variant in testing with snowstorm sins. We drop FH,Wisdom,Courage,Tryp, and weaklings. Docta Jenkins 01:27, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Snow Storm Take 2
Edited the entire build to reflect changes in the meta SoO clear. Docta Jenkins 03:17, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yay for complete build wipes :D

1. sandway is still playable, and maybe some people prefer. Thats why i wrote a new article. 2. why to remove the daggers? daggers help u with e managament at fendi and trigger barbs like hell. scythe is only second choice. 3. takin snowstorm for a/n also is crap, mop does a much better job here. dont edit builds u dont understand... --Ama Tera Sun 05:45, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do understand, I was there when we tested it. I also did a test run with Snow storm vs MoP. Fendi dies in 15-20 seconds with the additional snow storm which renders rangers virtually harmless. Rits barely do any damage in the first place except for destruction which anyone can heal out of with proper EE usage. Also get online and I'll pm you so you're clear on who this is, ama ;P Docta Jenkins 05:53, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, as for the build wipe, I was asked to replace the old SoOSC with this one because the other one was WELLed.Docta Jenkins 05:54, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't see the SandWay in the WELL, didn't even get an email about it... That said, I can see why some need daggers for energy, I used it too when at Fendi with SandWay, but if you are using daggers why do you still need golden lotus strike ontop of that? Alteast the SandWay had an attack skill with which you could heal yourself a bit, now I see idiots drop like flies... they are idiots, I grant you that. Also, putting wisdom as optional is very stupid, this pve skill speeds things up at Fendi, alot. But ofcourse then you're better of using lotus as it is the best attack skill then for energy which you'll need... gg Gevalle Engel 18:41, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

now its better again--Ama Tera Sun 07:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * victorious sweep healing you? You have to have more health than the foe =\. Fendi has a shitload of health, Tbh when I ran sandway before snoway I used zealous sweep over victorious. Docta Jenkins 00:36, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Why Fall Back over Godspeed?
Both will increase speed with 33% (Essence of Celerity + stacking cap). Fall Back lasts 9 seconds with 16 sec recharge (56% uptime), Godspeed lasts 17 seconds with 24 sec recharge (71% uptime). Or do people somehow need the healing (in other words: are people fail enough to need healing when they should stay with A/P and use Ebon Escape)? Dzjudz 22:11, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * yes-- Relyk  talk  21:35, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes what? People need the slight heal Fall Back gives half of the time you are running? Dzjudz 22:11, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * yes, people are that bad-- Relyk  talk  22:11, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hai pugz. Docta Jenkins 00:36, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea, pretty much. If you have confidence in your team, you could swap. Assuming you're running the entire 20 minutes (you're not) you'd only save about a minute or so.

Gevalle
We listed wisdom as an optional because the skills have a super low recharge time and high energy cost. Pugs won't be able to E-manage that well =\. I'll leave it how it is but please reconsider changing it back. Docta Jenkins 15:25, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jup, I know what you mean, but people will have to learn how to play as an experienced player one time, besides, you need atleast ebon rank 8 for both honor and wisdom. If you have gotten that, I think we can say you should be able to manage your energy aswell. That's how I think anyway... Gevalle Engel 16:56, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The point of pvx is to make the builds pug friendly, not elitist. That is also the reason Ama wanted it posted. If we wanted it to be for pros only we would drop a lot more shit for damage. Docta Jenkins 01:47, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * To make it a bit pug friendlier, I removed from the list of optionals for the A/N. It doesn't do any dmg to Fendi and doesn't really contribute to anything there. With 2 bosses on their own, and 2 bigger groups with illusionists that only leaves the group on the second level with the enchanted axes on which you would be able to use MoP, as a result not worth bringing it imo. Also, they would have to attack the MoP'ed target with their daggers, which I don't see happening with pugs... Anyway, think the A/N build is now ok like it is, not touching it anymore for now. Gevalle Engel 07:38, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * mark of pain is a great skill, it kills axes in lvl 2 and helps a lot at fendi to kill archers in a second. it comes in very handy if u have 1 or 2 men down at fendi.--Ama Tera Sun 09:32, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Killing Fendi faster also kills archers faster ;P lol Gevalle Engel 10:25, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * MoP is easier for pugs, keep it in optionals. Docta Jenkins 20:34, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've put it in as an optional, but I still think it's a waste of energy for the 10 or 15 seconds that Fendi is alive each time... Gevalle Engel 20:59, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol MoP is teh sheet. Weaken Armor would be my only alternative consideration...or Blood Bond, but we won't go there.  Bee's make the best A/N!!!  MaiWay 08:56, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're going to take, you should put 9 in curses and 9 in blood. It's already in use as far as I know, but it isn't used by many people yet... And with SandWay we threw out because we were already doing max dmg with the scythes, but I guess it could add more dmg to your daggers, haven't tried yet how much etc... feel free to.Gevalle Engel 18:23, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

A/N gater
the base build has 4 pve skills within it and is therefore non-viable. The bar need to be changed. [Note:Forgot to sign my post, sorry] -Tesun Fire 86.24.249.15 14:35, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Changed Shadow Sanctuary to Feigned Neutrality. Should work if you're not stupid with casting or attacking. Armor bonus is nice too. Dzjudz 17:40, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The armor bonus is neglectable tbh... no offence but feigned is not the skill you want to be using here, it's ok for a sliver sin, but here for ... no ty... Gevalle Engel 07:25, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * which genie edited into: 2 optionals with 3 pve skills to choose from, ending up 4 in total? if u dont understand the build, plz dont touch it.--Ama Tera Sun 09:32, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well like I said IG, and like you've edited it now, there is death's retreat for this... and you can always use death charge too as gate, jump a bit forward etc to speed things up, not that it's really needed... Gevalle Engel 10:20, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * So since FH is now an optional (which I don't really think it is but w/e) can someone throw weaken armor as an A/N optional...option? I would do it but I'm too awesome to do things myself...Rask!!!  Do it!  And if you ask why that would be a viable option ih8chuMaiWay 09:07, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does Cracked Armor do anything though? Fendi/Soul is a necro, so he has 60 armor with and without Cracked Armor? Dzjudz 15:01, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Revert Wars
Knock it off. It's already been discussed that Wisdom is pretty lame. If you need it that's fine but its better to leave the slot optional. Docta Jenkins 07:30, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I think you should have atleast a bit more faith in pugs, they aren't complete idiots... well... lol It won't hurt anyone if it's not listed as an optional, if you can bring it you should. They can then still decide for themselves if they really want it or not... or better if they have someone in their pug who has it and who aslos has a high enough ebon rank. Gevalle Engel 07:47, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to explain to you that another snowstorm is still effective and more readily available among pugs. People who have wisdom will see OMG I HAVE THAT and take it, people who don't will see snowstorm as an optional and be like OMFG I CAN SoO. My point being that SoO is easy and doesn't require a set team, tons of the skills are interchangeable and the article should reflect this flexibility. Docta Jenkins
 * uhu I get your point, but wouldn't it be better to give pugs a more fixed team build? They are pugs, and they come to pvx to find builds that have been made for them to run. Most just copy what's here and are not interested in putting skills together to see what's working best... that's our job... Gevalle Engel 08:13, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * the more "specials" u have in team, the more time u need to setup. pug with a/n a/p and a honor can be found and setup in a minute. till u find a wisdom r8+ or an fh in addition it may need 5-10 minutes more, then the struggle "who plays what"... in fact: it doesnt matter if u kill fendi in 7 or 8 minutes, when you loose this time at team setup. so putting fh and wisdom optional makes sense --Ama Tera Sun 09:14, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that's upto the leader of the group to decide how long he wants to look for something... but it's indeed pretty stupid to look for something for 15mins when you're only planning on doing one run, I have to agree with you on that. Still, I think it's better to give a more complete team build, rather than having too many optionals... On a side note, I made it on some noobs ignore list because he couldn't win an argument on the usefulness of MoP... :D lmao Big shoutout to Bobbehs Smexy Sin! XD lol Gevalle Engel 09:31, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I also hate MoP ;D. But thats just because I use EE like a motherfucker, unlike most pugs. Docta Jenkins 10:14, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I stopped reading after gevalle said that pugs aren't complete idiots. Life   Guardian  21:04, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why didn't I say that DX Docta Jenkins 21:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol :P Gevalle Engel 06:47, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pug.jpg you make pug sad :( --Ikimono ...And my Axe! [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png]] 08:27, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

build usage
anybody but me find the description of how to use the build and the little picutres everywhere very confusing and patronising? I think i am going to clean up the usage for the Snowstorm A/D Howe304 18:43, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Put away the MoP
Is it really needed on the A/n main bar? there are what 4 groups of 5+ enemys, half of em have hex removal (ex. Hex Eater Vortex and Smite hex) -- Elf-e 14:32, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It scatters rangers at fendi ( preventing blind) and it also kills the damned crewmen fucking fast. Docta Jenkins 07:23, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * ctt prevents blind, and snowstorm and sand shards can kill damned crew members also Dr Rawr 10:30, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Rez
A good A/P doesn't need IAU. Never Surrender for Unseen Fury and IAU for We Shall Return. If you're weakened while tanking a Brigand, or on the 3rd level with Brutes coming while you need to recast SF, Unseen so they can't knock you down. CTT protects from Wizards should they ever decide to even get in your touch range.


 * you need iau for possible cripple from hellhounds, also, it is better to switch shadow sanctuary for feigned neutrality and never surrender for EBSoWisdom


 * Hellhounds cripple you at the first Brigand and that's it... If you're getting crippled anywhere else you're not that good.

i hope you mean that you can get crippled while running to the first brigand, because if you're aggroing the hellhounds near him, you're doing it wrong.


 * ...No. Aggroing the hounds on the way to him is terrible. There's a chance Brigand is buried hella much in the back so far that even with a longbow you're still aggroing the hounds there, but even if that's the case, what the hell is the point of IAU. They're not stopping you from pulling.

the hounds on the way to him are ALWAYS aggroed, if not by you then by the rest of your pug, if youre in a guild then fine drop iau, but for pugging you need it
 * Guess it takes a leader because I've not once encountered a problem with them, I'm never in the back

you should be, giving ctt to the guys who arent that experienced and are falling behind, then they ee you and suddenly those doggies are chasing you

Times?
Third floor 8 minutes here. Ju ze  12:22, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5 is record, 7 is the good pugs
 * good pugs pull 6 mins, hell i've ap'd for several 5minute pug runs lol, record is 5minutes by [ToYs] though ive heard some of their members bs bout 4mins, not seen screen for 4 though. 86.130.121.110 14:22, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've gotten 4 min b4 with a half friends half guild team..i didn't cap it tho. Edit:Signed in --BLUE LAZERS  Eat It User-Baby Blue Lazer sig pic.jpg‎ 06:59, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

"Stand Your Ground!"?
Isnt "Stand Your Ground!" a good alternative for "Never Surrender" or Unseen Fury? ,- Konschu  08:12, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

PvE Titles
OK, so I have the build and the gear and have watched the tutorial several farms. But the question is: is it necessary to possess high Vanguard rank? Snowstorm exceeds the SF cap even on rank 1, and for IAU max rank adds only 4secs. Heal on the EE however, changes dynamically. So, what Vanguard rank do you find minimal to go SoOSC? Kravcio 01:22, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Join a pug and don't be the ebsoh sin and it doesn't matter. Life   Guardian  01:56, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

N/A
Wouldn't a N/A be possible and faster?


 * Curses:12+1+3
 * Shadow Arts:12
 * Deadly Arts:3

Reasoning: Using Barbs + "By Ural's Hammer!" allows for 16 damage for (at the least) 10 seconds. Whereas, Barbs with 16 Curses is 16 damage. In addition, Radiant Insignia is also recommended since Deadly Paradox does cost quite a lot, but all of you Assassins already know that.

Simply because you're getting the same damage output with a N/A as you would with a A/N + "By Ural's Hammer!" you get more DPS in the long run in comparison to a A/N.

If Blood Bond was going to be a part of it, we would do even more DPS when added with Blood Bond since Blood Bond steals much more life than Barbs adds damage. I actually recommend putting 12+1+3 in Blood Magic specifically for Blood Bond. It recharges quickly, and is essentially more "damage" and heals, so that's always nice too. Suckor 07:19, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Blood Bond doesn't steal health. Sandy The Assassin 22:39, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

sand shard change
replace sand shard with chaos storm (a/me) and conviction with golden phoenix or something. I'll make the new build. archive this. Demonic Sin Ex 02:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Why? Just replace Sand Shards with Mystic Sandstorm. Conviction is out, so you probably need something like Pious Concentration against ranger interrupts at Fendi. Maybe the A/N can take Mark of Fury with 12 shadow, 10 curses and 8 blood? Dzjudz 02:54, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Mystic Sandstorm requires adrenline to use now, so it will be hard to use, not to mention you have to cancel an enchantment for it to be effective. Chaos storm lasts longer anyways and is easy to use, so it's better.  New build is at   http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_SoO_Chaosway     rate please Demonic Sin Ex 02:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't remove an enchantment and 5 adren is easy enough to get with daggers. AegisDok 03:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This required a skill change and rename at best. I don't see why we'd have to re-vet all over again just for a change in the nuke skill. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 03:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Unseen Fury. You don't need the extra blocks AegisDok 03:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Chaos recharge is bad. MS can pretty much be maintained. It doesn't remove enchantments. 5 adrenaline is easy with daggers indeed (if not, take Mark of Fury I guess like I suggested, but probably not needed). Paras should take Unseen Fury since you don't have the block from conviction any more. Dzjudz 03:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * My point was that every sin can take UF in place of conviction if they're worried about the rangers. AegisDok 03:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It really can't be maintained; it has an 8s recharge. But yeah, it is better than chaos storm. AegisDok 03:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Essence of Celerity shortens it a bit though. Dzjudz 03:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Chaos storm actually kills the Bringand mobs faster as you dont need to wait for recharge (heck the time it takes to build adren is like already 50% of the needed time to kill those mobs), but yeah mystic is better at fendi. However, if wisdom is lucky (50%!) then chaos storm can just be as good at fendi.  in my opinion Chaos storm is more PUG friendly as some people dont know how to build adren.  As for conviction's replacement, you dont need self protection skills.  golden phoenix strike for AoE damage wins. Demonic Sin Ex 03:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't know how to build adrenaline? All you do is autoattack Fendi, which you should be doing anyway because of Barbs. Dzjudz 03:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah but some people don't auto attack at all and just spam snowstorm... lol... Anyways, chaos storm is good enough to replace this build (so is mystic, but hey we need some secondary profession changes!) Demonic Sin Ex 03:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, you were the first to post it with chaos storm...But mystic sandstorm will still be faster at Fendi; several extra seconds at the brigands won't matter. AegisDok 03:26, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

--Lukky SjoerD 22:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC) Read the new description on mystic sandstorm. WAY better than chaos storm and it's adren based.--TahiriVeila 03:40, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

+ someone takes wisdom and someone takes honor. -- Chieftain   Alex  10:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Why on earth are people taking pious concentration????? In the old soosc pretty much all of your spells were 1 second cast also. You lose conviction so you no longer have 50% block so just make the a/p and another person take unseen fury and just blind the crap out of the rangers. This lets like 6 people lose pious concentration for an actually usefull skill that wont strip your shadow form if you are rupted.62.31.158.5 11:04, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Made some changes, scythe triggers barbs less and pious concentration seemed useless. I put it as a variant so as not to start an edit war. Put in an a.w warrior build as found that pugs dont like using ee at fendi and people were dying. the SY is easily maintainable and makes even the earlier mob kills much more failsafe.62.31.158.5 11:13, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Just a note. Pious Concentration cannot strip Shadow Form. Since the update, Dervish skills that remove enchantments only remove Dervish enchantments. Shadow Form is an Assassin enchantment. Dzjudz 16:24, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought scythe was pretty decent because it instantly charged Mystic for ele boss on lvl 3. but I can see why you'd go for golden-- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px]] Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  16:54, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * my bad, i was under the impression pious concentration would remove any enchantment as lots of the other skills specifically specify dervish enchantment, never mind. i was just reading old description.It is still useless.62.31.158.5 17:01, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Eternal Aura
+ Signet of Pious Light instead of Snow Storm and Golden Phoenix Strike on 1 guy for AoE ress, its fully unconditional maintable. --Lukky SjoerD 22:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * no point, just learn to ee at fendi. and it isnt pug friendly.. when people die they usually lose attention to the fight, and rezzing them when they least expect it will cause chillbans to happen. and communicating a rez means more work, not something that is pug friendly. Demonic Sin Ex 03:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It is mostly for the Brigand, since necro uses death nova. u can say whatever u want but this is helpfull, and preventing wipes. --Lukky SjoerD 11:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Now you have to hope that the person with rez doesn't wipe along with the rest because of death nova :) Alcahmahol 03:57, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Its a crap idea to have Eternal Aura as stated above, since if the person with it dies, you could accidentally rez other people during killing of brigands, meaning a bunch of guys without SF and without Shroud are standing in adjacent range to brigant -> rape -> more dead than before. Though the guy with EA should have +100 more hp than everyone else so i don't know why they would die :S -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  09:52, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Cuz they pug and no IAU up cuz they have 100 hp extra anyway? ^___^ Falrach 10:04, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Uhm, duh?
[build prof=a/d shadow=12+1+3 scythe=9 earthprayers=9 crit=3][shroud of distress][shadow form][mystic sandstorm][Sand Shards][Zealous Sweep] [Snow Storm][i am unstoppable][ebon escape][/build]

Swap storm for Honor/FH etc


 * sand shards really has no need.... it wouldn't do anything at fendi. most it can do is kill the mobs at lvl 2 and 3 slighty faster (which tbh wont make much difference). Skills that increase attack speed (pious fury) or supporting skills (unseen) are better in this case as it works at fendi just as well as brigand. if you really want more damage just dagger. and also sign please :) Demonic Sin Ex 08:45, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * no reason to use a scythe. the whole idea is for you to get up as many sandstorms as possible. sandstorm requires adrenaline, and daggers attack much faster than scythes. also the dagger e manage skill trumps the scythe one. i never have e problems with daggers, i have had problems with scythe.--Saxazax 06:01, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Blood Bond?
Added Blood Bond as optinional for A/N, Maybe reduce crit strikes and spec more into blood would be pretty good heals tbh. but feel free to remove if u dont think so 86.145.220.163 09:27, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * i like blood bond since pugs die a lot and many aps dont bring never surrender.--Saxazax 05:59, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Any/A Snow for SoOsc
[build prof=any/a shadow=12 dagger=12][deadly paradox][shadow form][shroud of distress][golden lotus strike][lotus strike][Snow Storm][i am unstoppable][ebon escape][/build] hey just thought I would add this. Get feed back or improvements. I know it works, I have used it. you will need: zealous daggers of enchanting, shield and 1 handed weapon of enchanting, and a +20 energy staff of enchanting(just in case) When at Fendi, don't spam skills when blind.
 * looks good to me--Saxazax 05:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * actually not so good. the second e-manage skill is unnecessary and hugely limits your damage without sandstorm. furthermore, why do you have deadly paradox on that bar?...--Saxazax 22:48, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * 12 shadow yo.  Ӎiñon Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 00:48, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * ever heard of a BU?--Saxazax 03:41, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * oh this is any/a--Saxazax 03:55, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Scythe Variant should be removed

 * 1) the whole idea of the build is to charge up sandstorm with adrenaline as quickly as possible. Scythes attack much slower than daggers, so damage is limited with scythe variant.
 * 2) the e-manage skill is only conditionally good and the recharge is 10 seconds, while the dagger e-manage skill has only 5 recharge for more unconditional benefit. further, the dagger variant is better for pugs because one can just spam their skills and have no energy problems.
 * 3) damage from scythes' inherent pbaoe ability is useless, because of sand and snow.--Saxazax 22:57, 22 October 2011 (UTC)


 * If you read Zealous Sweep's description carefully, you see that you get 6 adrenaline per usage on balled foes [2 for each foe], instant charging Sandstorm is pretty good. energy management isn't the issue with daggers or scythe, they both work fine tbh. The only advantage of daggers is more barbs triggers. [although advantage is offset by faster charging sandstorm - the builds are pretty balanced and theres no issue with one or the other].
 * The bad edit on this page is the addition of Dark Escape supposedly "for use at fendi" - no damnit, you're a dagger sin spamming attacks to trigger barbs, what we do not need are a bunch of pussys who cba attacking for fear of death. We should probably do some bold Use EE on anyone with low health, not just yourself, you selfish fuck. Should be either Unseen Fury, Golden Fang Strike or Golden Phoenix Strike in the optional tbh. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  00:50, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah as you can see I'm a bit dyslexic; I tend to skip over things. Sorry about that.--Saxazax 03:40, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

This build need AoS for faster Sandstorm, snow, and IAU recharge, energy management, conditions off, and health gain
[build prof=any/a shadow=12 crit=3 earth=9][shadow form][shroud of distress][air of superiority][Snow Storm][mystic sandstorm][optional][i am unstoppable][death's retreat][/build]

Optional
yep--Saxazax 03:54, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

"8 is critical breakpoint"
Iirc theres weakness from warriors, which is annoying as fuck. but then you could spec minor crit rune so whatever doesn't rly matter. <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  23:45, 26 November 2011 (UTC)