Build talk:Team - MQSC Luxon FFF

A New Route for the Runner?
what if the runner took yeti way at the beginning then pull 1group of wallow to yetis then go to beach when bteam should probably be on the bridge?--Kebabs42 11:21, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * tested it in group and i finished and came to bteam while they were fighting the 1st group--Kebabs42 20:36, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Rit 1?
Maybe just have 1 build with skills 2-8 and add an optional to skill number 1 to clean up the page a tad? All of the 5 rit1 builds are the same with the exception of the first skill 67.248.210.31 17:48, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Which is easier?
I am relatively new to guild wars, and would like to earn some factions through farming, so which is easier to farm?, Kurzick(DTsc) or Luxon(MQsc)?, At the most, I have 12k Kurzick factions, and something like 5k on Luxon(all earned through some random scrimmages/ doing question missions in factions), any opinions?suggestions?--Wracks 10:00, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * MQSC is easier and faster

Y tank's gear
It says "Lowest AL Armor(with 550hp)" in the description. But why is it exactly 550hp? Can one run the smite "Variant for More Experienced Tank" with 550hp tank (without Vital Blessing) more effectively than with ~450hp + Vital Blessing tank? I'm running the build with one Superior Restoration Rune and ~455hp just fine (constant 6-8min runs if the finisher and smiter are awake, having ~630hp after Vital Blessing ofc).. Put in simple way: Does the 550hp variant deal 'anyway' more overall damage with all the smite buffs than the ~630hp variant with Vital Blessing with more medicore smite skills? And a question regarding the "40/20/20%" staff.. Can one craft those easily somewhere or what's the secret behind that number combination? :) --Teknikaali 21:22, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * After minor experiments I could pull off 6-8 min runs with VB+LA with the 3 pve skills and 5-7 min runs with 550hp and no VB nor LA.. And the staff question is obsolete now. Though I still use my sword+20/20 offhand if I need that extra ~7 energy sometimes (: --Teknikaali 08:29, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Return of the Yeti
As the runner do you have to talk to Magistrate Kin every run or can you just get the quest in your log once? I'm just wary of accidentally accepting the reward, unless you need the lantern in your inventory, in which case I guess there's no chance of accepting by accident? Hobbs 00:47, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You just talk to the npc once. - need the lantern in your inventory - plus I usually let the y-tank take it. --Chieftain Alex 19:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

SoJ vs. Mantra of Celerity
Couldn't MoC replace SoJ on atleast the exp 600 smiters bar, as SoJ's KD effect significiantly lowers dmg, and only using Hwrath is usually better then SoJ+Hwrath. Falrach 13:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

No need for Vital Blessing
There's no need for Vital Blessing, look at the math

Assuming this build

vs this build

The math:

600*.1=60*.33=19.8*.25=24.75*.25=30.94

811*.1=81*.33=21*.25=26.25

600 hp *.1 (prot spirit) = 60 hp *.33 (retribution) = 19.8 damage * .25 (BuH) = 24.75 dmg *.25 (intensity) = 30.94

811 hp (vital blessing) *.1 (prot spirit) = 81 hp *.33 (retribution) = 21 dmg (rounded down from damage cap of retribution) *.25 (BuH) = 26.25 dmg

30.94 dmg vs 26.25 dmg. Yeah. --Saxazax 21:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * it was never there for dmg, just to help bad 600's against lifesteal/ hits of 60> and you assume 600 pugs have 600 health which tells me nuff. Oh and those bars are subpar anyway. Falrach 22:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Run Count(tested)
starting from 1 million faction on my luxon bar, it took 450 runs to max my title, and every time i got around 10K or more faction per run, amd with maths correct, it would take 500 runs exactly to max this title(if adding to guild/alliance faction to double), if buying scrolls or Jadeite Shards, it would take 1000 runs, but this all depends where your title is at..@10K factions a run=50K faction @5 runs=500K faction @ 50 runs=1 million faction towards title if adding to alliance/guild faction. Edit=to calculate this for yourself get to an eqaul million(1/2/3/4/5/etc. million) and minus 50 runs from starting 500 runs to better count how many runs you got left. --58.167.231.159 22:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)AzzaMcAzza--58.167.231.159 22:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * 10,000x2 goes into 1,000,000 500 times. Who'd have ever figured that one out? -- Jai . -  03:39, May 6 2011 (UTC)

Yeti smite
EoE is better than Fb in every situation except a Mo/R or R/Mo finisher, which is subpar since you miss out a big deal of damage. It causes everything to die at once with proper positioning, which saves a hella lot more time then running 33% faster 40% of the time. Falrach 14:27, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

D Runner
Nice build with 4 PvE skill. Anyone know the change ? Geozz 17:26, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * here. Probably just change out IAU for something or Eternal Aura for Rebirth/WSR (the secondary isn't being used). -- Jai . -  17:40, July 23 2011 (UTC)
 * i think that build was removed because pious haste + VoS doesn't mix (pious will remove VoS because you can't cover it) well 76.6.154.0 02:38, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Why complicate things? This is the most concise way to do it, people still get to copy template codes. &mdash; Skakid  Rally- kupo! 23:08, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Just paste the code in seperately without the full bars imo. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  23:12, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks good. &mdash; Skakid  Rally- kupo! [[Image:S9M.png]] 23:19, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Pro finish, [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  23:47, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Much better. :-) (Ariyen) 72.148.31.114 01:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Texmod Map
Hello, this is Farlo from GWW. I finally got around to making a Texmod that shows the 3 paths this speed-clear takes and I wanted to post it here so you guys could provide any missing info for the maps. I've uploaded the maps here, so check them out and please leave a comment on the talk page if I'm missing anything since I most likely won't check here often. I've only run Yeti and Wallow so the Beach path is pretty much taken from images and Youtube, but I think I have everything marked except for an Oni spawn which I can't find. 76.172.107.173 22:01, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice, I'll fix the article to include a link later. The missing oni spawn you were talking about is halfway between the Rit boss marker and the entrance portal - but no team should be walking there anyway so hopefully nobody will corss them :D [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  22:40, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Good to know, but I probably won't go through the effort of uploading new versions for just one fix, so let me know if there's more and I might :D 76.172.107.173 06:33, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Heroway
That build is pretty ugly and it has basically skipped vetting onto a meta page.. I don't think it should be there at all tbh.. Chieftain  Alex  09:12, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. IMO this section (Heroway or 2-man heroway) should be moved off into it's own article.--DaveBaggins 03:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Essence of Celerity
Pretty sure pugs didn't used to use these, ever. Chieftain  Alex  21:41, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I mqsc frequently and while it's true most don't, some groups of older friends do. Anyway, if this is a teaching (we include tutorial vids) as well as documenting site, it can't hurt to be as helpful as possible. Fianchetto 22:55, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I've moved it to the notes section. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  23:40, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * BU's can hurt a lot, the increased runspeed means aggro is lost more easily making it more difficult for the tanks. An experienced group is gonna do times as low as 5 min 30 sec without it. And in all my runs I have never experienced it actually making the times faster. Often I've done 5 minute (aka 5-5 min 59 sec runs) for hours on end but on the runs where you use a BU you get a 6 min run instead. +skill cons is the ones you want for this run, as they actually make it faster. Especially the use of PCcons on the wallows team 84.48.54.253 01:17, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, providing valid reasoning means edits are encouraged ^_^ I recall i used to use them in DTSC to get 10 min runs prenerf. BU meant we could drop SoA and just spam spiritbond. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  01:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Cavalon Alliance, when they do pug, but rarely and mostly with alliance members (though all meet in the public district, unlike mtsc - where it's guild halls). Well, they do BUs every time I've gone with them. So, I don't think this is reason enough to remove. It hasn't really "seemed" to have caused problems either way, with or without. Some have complained and prefered without, but it does help the Ritualist teams and others who do not have P-Cons. (I have done a few both ways, aso to why I'm saying this and I don't see a reason that aggro is "different" being the problem. It's happened and without the BU. It's more so how the players do and possibly the fact that other players could take away aggro, etc. You can't be sure on everyone - if they're "for sure" in that they know what they're doing or not. So, I wouldn't blame all that aggro issue on the BU... Just sayin' from experience, even recent. 72.148.31.114 02:09, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Just curious, have you ever tanked? Bad fini/smites will always steal aggro regardless of bu or not, and 20% IMS really has none of the effects you imagine since the tank is usually standing quite still while tanking. i can't believe someone actually tried arguing that bu slows things down. (Some kind soul has always popped bu on all of my recent runs, and i'm usually done tanking around 5-6m so this isn't theorycraft.) Cheers, Fianchetto 03:15, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've done all roles, and I've even popped more then 40 BU's by myself in a single FFF weekend, since I'm pretty rich and usually carry around at least a stack of BU's and 100+ cons. In GW any speed boost has a huge effect while gathering aggro be it 1% or 50% it makes the mobs run back way easier then if you're not using it. And for yeti and beach teams they don't really improve the times much. It does help the wallows team though but they're better off simply using a cupcake each. Try pulling anything, anywhere with and without a speed boost and you'll see what I mean 84.48.54.253 06:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Congrats that you're rich. Remember how runner works? Perma 33% IMS and able to long-pull mobs across the beach. IMS won't shake off aggro much if you simply keep the mob in aggro range (btw you're allowed to stop still every now and then). I'll try making a vid of me running beach down to 3-4 foes, and tanking in 5-6 minutes. Anyway, you're basically saying "IMS loses aggro, yet bu will steal tank's aggro because tank stands still while it's the fini/smite who should be running with IMS"? See the contradiction Fianchetto 16:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

2-man Heroway
Removed from main page: If that option is unavailable, the 2-man Heroway method runs averages 13-15 minutes (current best run is 12 minutes).

MQSC can get pretty dead at night for the Americans when the Euros go to bed. Finding full groups can be a pain so this is an alternative to get your faction in a fair amount of time (I think we have all been in pugs that take longer than this run)

Complete runs take 13-15 minutes. Current best run is 12 minutes.

This has been moved from the mainpage where it doesn't really belong on a vetted meta build. <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  23:40, 11 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Imo, should have stayed, due to lack of people that get on at certain times of the day to beable to do a full team of players. Grant it, Probably just as easy, if not longer with just one player and all heroes. 72.148.31.114 02:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It would be best as a separate build page. -- Toraen   confer  18:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I will follow up this work within my user space. Aiming for a sub-optimal but safeway version which I know won't get into mainspace but for those who hate Slow Clears due to novice players failing to perform a teambuild they dont understand. [[Image:User_Yoshida_Keiji_Signature.jpg|19px|link=User talk:Yoshida Keiji]] <font color="#800080">Yoshida Keiji talk 11:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Documentation / Testing / Rating
Alex already knows me. I am an ubber noob wiki user, specially here in PvX. I was surprise by the merge / move / deletion. People in GWW already knows that I get very upset when displayed information is inaccurate, mistaken, wrong, poorly tested, so on so on. I am an experienced player so I doubt I will attempt to incorporate failed builds but... If someone makes a build and then it is instantly incorporated to this team build...doesn't PvX enter a high risk threat of dis-information? I mean... I added the {untested} tab so that people would rate it first. But if nobody tests it... Then what prevents noobs from screwing already accepted pages with fail builds? Also, in this case, the MQSC Runner job can technically be performed by all professions... why does PvX not also inform the usage and set up as well. Now it has been deleted and that information is gone... If variants for different proffessions are incorporated... shouldn't overall rating be adjusted as well? For MQSC... there is nothing that says Warrior is the only one that can perform Runner job. If all builds/team builds were "merged" like this how does PvX prove to be a source of information rather dis-information as it happens in GWW? <font color="#800080">Yoshida Keiji talk 08:04, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Users on PvX will instinctively know when something will work or not, most builds we don't even have to test before rating. The build you provided isn't anything spectacularly different from the old paragon runner, and brambles will help with evas (or ymlad if you choose to take it, better choice for rupting troll unguent imo..) The runner builds could all essentially have just a speedboost + iau. (Indeed we could provide a bunch of other profession runner builds, but they're sub-optimal. <font face="Calibri" color=black>Chieftain Alex 09:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * "IAU" is suboptimal...all you need is block, speed shouts, res, and "CTT" if btank requests it. save your pve slots for PI, EVAS, and "YMLaD." a decent D/P, A/P, or R/P can clear at least half the beach before bteam arrives. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 20:56, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I am confused. I always thought that Wiki was meant to be a source of information. Now you are telling me that this community would not be interested in "sub-optimal" builds. For the past 3 years I have been in Luxon Faction Farming guilds/alliances and the question "What is the Runner build for (proffesion)?" has been as common as "Where is Nicholas this week?". Since the vast majority of GW players are lazy arses, I used to believe that the problem was their lack of effort to just access wiki so I never replied to lame questions. And when they answered back: "It's not on Wiki" I used to believe the noob was just swearing. But then now I come here...and there's trully no build but for one class.
 * "IAU!" I find it a must, otherwise you get crippled and pawned not to mention that Kayali has KD.
 * Im already starting to give credit to the phrase "Ignorance is a bliss", I used to believe wiki was enciclopedic... but now I know both GWW and PvX are incomplete, innacurate, mistaken, poorly documented and overbloated.[[Image:User_Yoshida_Keiji_Signature.jpg|19px|link=User talk:Yoshida Keiji]] <font color="#800080">Yoshida Keiji talk 05:10, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * try with block instead of "IAU" and you'll see the pve slot can be used for much better things.


 * been using Whirling Defense up to ~r11 but i prefer NS now. it's really hard to fail. and yeah, this wiki is bad but there's no reason to hate on gww :P &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 17:19, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

SoJ
I haven't tested this team as a smite/tank but doesn't SoJ actually SLOW the progress of killing? I understand it adds damage and also give the tank alittle breathing room but SoJ would take away the damage from retribution+holy wrath+VwK (which in turn would make the tank not able to outheal other damage as easily).... now please remember i haven't run tank/smite for this before so i have no idea how it works I Luv Cheetos 02:27, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * technically you are correct about it slowing down the total damage. that's why some tanks, if confident, ask for "no soj" in certain areas. however, for pulls of whole lake/cave, SoJ is needed since Spirit Bond simply cannot keep up with incoming damage. and it's needed for onis because of their Shadow Shroud. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 03:00, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ah ok thank you for clearing this up :P but theres no replacement elite that could go there and still have the same benefits as SoJ in certain areas? just seems like the KD is a cheap way out of not being able to tank the dmg I Luv Cheetos 21:02, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * you heard of any suggestions? i don't know any. i assume the guilds stopped theorycrafting once they hit 5-6 minutes :) &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 16:07, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

MQSC is dead
Havent seen any pugging after the Seventh Anniversary. Plus in the "see also" section, somebody (an IP) linked one of my test pages which is not completed, neither polished and barely tested. If the community wants to tell that there is a hero variant I don't mind it stays but if not, it should be removed...because...it also makes me look bad. The mail notification failed me I guess cos its under "videos" section and I was unawared of the last edit. <font color="#800080">Yoshida Keiji talk 16:20, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Guilds still run this though. -- Jai .  -  17:12, May 26 2012 (UTC)

upadte for current meta
so since this is the slower/older way of doing it and there isnt even reference to the current way it is done, (tho some inexperienced people still run this), should the new method with dervs be put on this page or have a page of its own? Shadeinthebox (talk) 18:09, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It sounds like this way to do MQSC is still viable and allows players of more primary professions to participate, so there's a point in keeping it. The new VoS based builds (and tactics) deserve their own page and can get the meta tag if they are what most people run nowadays. --Krschkr (talk) 13:40, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I am currently making it on my user page but im not sure what it would be called, i do aggree that this way should not be deleted as not everyone is capable or wants to use pcons, its just the derv way or even (more usually) a split of some dervs and some teams depending on who is available, needs to be mentioned due to how drastically it speeds runs up. I also think the two pages need to mention each other as roles can be swapped as i had mentioned depending on for example, if you take a derv to do beach, you no longer bring a beach runner and so on. Shadeinthebox (talk) 14:56, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Archival
I disagree with the archival. The builds could receive some optimizations and are slower than running a full dervish team, but there's a key difference: This build works without (or at least with barely any) consumables, whereas the dervish build requires a TON of consumables on each player. Faction farming is not a thing for an elite of players that needs to be done in record times. A reliable, consistently fast farm is still desirable for those players who still need to grind their titles. Those people, incidentally, usually aren't top SC players and don't have the required resources available to use 15 sets of pcons and 15 consets per hour. This build is still a working, sufficiently fast and much more accessible option and should stay. --Krschkr (talk) 11:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the builds still work great and are being used. Wasting so many cons just so you can do it faster seems ridiculous. Especially considering that you wont actually be getting enough profit back, just faction. Both builds can be Meta. --Eretromicin (talk) 18:34, 24 July 2020 (UTC)