Build talk:Team - FoW Manly Spike/Archive 4

Heal Party
Is bad and PUGs don't know when to use it. Discuss. ~  Ӎiñon  11:13, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * My reverted edit was merely correcting the mini skill bar to match the removal of Heal Party initiated by Paranon (probably our fow expert?) It has been a fair while since I've done fowsc but exp monks used to take fall back.. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain   Alex  15:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

HM update
does it affect t1 times?
 * Bigpull at ToS took me 5 slivers instead of my normal 3-4 slivers. Update doesnt change much on BattleField and Burning Forest.62.195.33.72 14:20, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Speed T2 bar
Mind expanding on the use of Shadow of Haste? I assume you use it before getting beach wolf then what? 21:35, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Doesn't last long enough to let you run through the cave, kill the beach wolf and jump back will it?  Shadow Honor The Elementalists! 21:47, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 88 Seconds at r10 deld and 17 shadow arts. Should be enough. If that's the only place it's usefull though it might be better to take HoS/EBSoH/GoC. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 21:54, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * gonna be close then :S  Shadow Honor The Elementalists! 21:59, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If no one wants to elaborate on this then I think it should be taken off the main page. If it turns out there is a good reason it can be put back later with a better description. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 22:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * SoH is used to get into cave without bringing any shadow mobs in with you - but you can do that anyway(apart from 2 beasts) if you arent braindead and can just avoid patrols, It can be used for fast beach wolf. only other use is doing 2 seeds per sliver, by setting SoH at the first seed then killing second and canceling with dash. SoH is more of a gimmick though - you can do 2 seed sliver with Sliver + fh or ebsoh only (or both). You can get into cave without aggro without SoH, and beach wolf doesnt even take that long (and collecting dryders makes doing cave wolf a LOT easier, so losing their aggro is illogical). If you want speed variant, Shroud SF ds Dash, Sliver, Finish Him!, hos dc. If you are uncomfortable ebsoh instead of HoS or FH. Shadow of haste is not mainbar for speed variant. Also - T2 ideally (in pugs) should bring AoE purely because the T1 may be AWFUL and die and need covering - ToS/Burning forest is doable without but it is quite annoying (most average players will most likely die). So Yeah, permadash + FH is fine, but dont mainbar SoH for a "speed" bar, its a gimmick variant at best. 164.11.203.58 22:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Just tested. it's useless for beach wolf. You just get tele'd into a wall unless you run back inside cave. Waste of a skill slot for sure. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 22:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Just did a run taking EVAS and it was fucking pro. The idea is to pull as much aggro into the cave as possible as it will do alot of your work and you use EVAS + Earth staff to kill the cave wolf with no aggro on you. You can then go do Khobay as normal with a bit more damage and when doing restoring you will only need to kill 1 or 2 seeds. Not only is it fast it's impossible to fuck up because you don't need aggro for your wolf kill. I am deadly serious about this btw, maybe I got lucky with Restoring but the Shadow army did most of it for me. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 00:31, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Cave wolf is so overhyped it is unreal. With any build: After taking hunt (you should have little-no aggro, 1 beast + war or a couple beats tops), wait for the patrol that is outside of cave to move, then run in, only beast spawns will be with you. run to beach without using dash. Kill beach wolf then run back to front of cave, you should have a LOT of dryder with you, all you need to do now is wait for cave wolf to be anywhere outside of cave, run out + sliver+ebsoh and it is dead, every time guaranteed. Depending on forge speed you can either go back into cave and go to the end or go and prep ~2 mobs for Khobay to kill him instantly after Q taken. then go back to cave and use a HSR10% caster + 20/20 focus(or a staff if you are lazy) and just faceroll through the rest of cave. pulling everything into cave or everything outside is risky, if you bug shadow army into a safe spot you have trouble with aggro and it is generally annoying. If you kill too much of the shadow army and have no aggro for seeds, you're in for slow cave unless you use beach aggro (dryder pull all over fow) Simply put, relying on pulling mobs in is just bad. The only use EVAS has in fow (outside of mainteam) is in limited party fow, where it is helpful for clearing forge (and some other stuff). EVAS is a wasted skill slot when (if running permadash + double or single jump) you can have sliver+ebon+fh(drop ebon/fh if double jump) for an easy time doing 2 seed per sliver and a better bar. So yeah... cave wolf cant really be that big of a deal.there are 2 existing spawns that are impossible to do with with that method (and that is when you are being timed, and cannot wait for him to move) one is around the corner from cave entrance to the right, the other is if he is right out towards the path to ToS - but even these spawns he patrols away from relatively fast,so unless you are being timed or something, this is fool proof.164.11.203.58 00:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

tl;dr I'll just guess what you said and say the point is a speedy restore because shadow army does it. Easy cave wolf is an added bonus. 00:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Anyone who has done FoWsc to death knows cave wolf spawn can be bad. It is not frequent but it is possible.--E.Snow 01:33, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Can't seem to re create what happened the first time I tried it. Guess I just got lucky with the main teams timing. Unless someone finds some pro way to garuntee that the shadow army does restore EVAS isn't that good. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 15:16, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you hadnt have been lazy and Tl;dr'd my post - you wouldve known that. You wouldve also known a fool-proof way of doing cave wolf.164.11.203.58 15:23, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * So I read your wall and you said nothing anyone didn't already know. Even if the shadow army glitches in the cave you can use EVAS to kill the seeds. Your fool-proof way to kill cave wolf is the same way everyone else does it. You didn't say anything useful. SpongeBobSignaturePants.jpg 15:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

FoW page overhaul
I'm voting for a FoW page overhaul, i've changed the MT and T2 bars already to show a faster and more exp bar with optionals beneath the build for the lesser experienced players. But i'm asking if it's okay to do a complete page overhaul with extra variants for the different roles and simpler setup where possible. I hope you guys agree. For example, The Eoe bar still uses technobabble, ancestor's rage and YMLAD, i hardly see them ever in use anymore and see this build popup more and more. . This is a solo toc build btw. But still utilises the main skills to run EoE effectively. Su nn y St or ms  14:00, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * make a page in userspace with your idea of what it should look like. We'll take a look and decide on it. Falrach 15:19, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh and I am NOT going to agree with solo toc in manlyway. There is a reason we have 2 spikers. Falrach 15:19, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Solo ToC saves very little time, and considering pugs cannot spike without eoe+splinter reliably, battlefield spike will be iffy, and people seem unable to grasp the idea of using rupture for solo ToC - people over complicate it and are unreliable. In reference to your other "overhaul" changes: Mental Block should stay mainbar on MT purely for the fact that Pugs take SO long to actually spike, you cannot hold full top aggro reliably for the amount of time it takes them to spike, HoS does very little in terms of speeding up MT because you have no terrain to HoS over/past, and you spend most of your time waiting anyway, all it does is make it less pug-friendly, if you want to speed MT up, fastpulls are the only way to do it, its the spikers which waste so much time. Having an optional slot and either MB or HoS would be fine, but not mainbarring HoS. T2 Bar- Alcohol should be mandatory for the run- shadow warriors, Abyssals AND the warriors at khobay all have KD - rupt on shadow form in a pug run is less than helpful because they dont know how to deal with it, you can drop SF anywhere in fow and survive if you dont suck and know how to recover, pugs just panic and die, then need covering because people rarely bring scrolls. Permadash T2 is only good in runs with experienced terras + spikers, if T1 dies its a pain covering with the permadash bar, as is with the MT bar if you dont have pcons up or know what you're doing. A better format would be similar to the Mesway page T2 and list permadash as an optional. Shortly put, your overhaul ideas are nothing new, the changes that you made are changes experienced people have made for years, the people good enough to use the "overhauled" bars already do, solo ToC, permadash T2 etc all get passed around and used by good people(who would just use mesway anyway). Listing the bars as better is fine but leave the pug bars as the "main" bars, and please dont do something similar to what you did with the UW pages and split it to "FoW Manly Spike Exp way" - if you're that exp you'd run t3mesway ;) Id suggest using Mesway page as an example, listing the "fastway" terra bars underneath for people to look at.

Lol wall of text, tl;dr = The changes were silly. --164.11.203.58 21:21, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Quote:and please dont do something similar to what you did with the UW pages and split it to "FoW Manly Spike Exp way". Say what you want but, you have to agree with me that UW page has never looked so clean and easy to read. And i do do mesway. I just thought Manlyway could use a cleanup aswell. I know i've been told a few times now i think that pugs can run anything and i should try to keep things simple. So with sayign that. Yes i'll keep the page and builds simple. i won't put hard builds or tactics on here. I just want to see everything neat and clean. ^_^  [[image:Blackout.jpg|20px]] Su nn y St or ms  18:15, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with you splitting the UW pages and i do agree it was helpful, my point was that it simply wouldnt be for this build, for reasons already stated. Making things neater and adding new optionals like DS + dash on t2 is fine, just dont mainbar them :P --164.11.203.58 18:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I have been told a couple times now that my idea for mainbars on pvx are just not always going to work. Seeing it's for pugs. So i've been forced to change the way i think as i still want to try and be helpful ^^. So saying that. I will try and put up mainbars without empty slots. BUT, i'm gonna make them as easy as possible to run. and put the (SWAPPABLES) underneath. Just like on the UW page. I hope that will make everyone happy  [[image:Blackout.jpg|20px]] Su nn y St or <font color="#000017">ms  18:24, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Anyone disagrees
With these changes? Falrach 15:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC) on a manly way page? No. <font face="Calibri" color=black>Chieftain Alex  16:48, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * 1: what changed? 2: your use of grammar. --  Shadow  Talk with me :D  15:24, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed most tips, optionals, equipment&outdated vids, and not everything is my grammar D: (And wtf is against speaking grammar on a talkpage?). 82.95.65.117 15:35, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Because saying devensive is way outta line with proper grammar --  Shadow  Talk with me :D  15:38, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That's spelling. And im tired. 82.95.65.117 15:44, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * W/E, I read both the same way, and make no difference. --  Shadow  Talk with me :D  16:09, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Tbh you can drop the MoP and melee for triple keystone or some other mesmer spike. No chance of fucking it up and it's faster since there isn't really a setup.  Rask ✂  ✂  ✂  ✂  16:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * "drop the MoP and melee"
 * Manlyway is outdated as hell. Should have been archived after the mesmer update to be honest.  Rask ✂  ✂  ✂  ✂  16:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Manlyway is still meta, though. FoW Mesway is better than keystone spikers, pugs simply didnt bother making the change to mesway because theyre so afraid of change --Dont Tell Dave 17:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * In such way, one can actually say it is some kind of meta: guild meta --  Shadow  Talk with me :D  18:15, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see mesway having any benefit over keystone tbh. You don't need a snare in FoW, I can see pure Esurge spikers being pretty nice though.  Rask ✂  ✂  ✂  ✂  18:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Mesway is simply more idiot-proof, the old Keystone spike was ok but if a spike went wrong, it went very wrong, especially with no monk. Mesway has a lot more utility in the form of blind/snare. it's commonly used with a solo ToC rit which means no eoe in forge,and without the cushion of damage from EoE the spike is slightly delayed on top of forge (and on battlefield, too), deep freeze + blind simply saves that. Also if T3 dies 3x Keystone spikers are quite fucked in forest for energy. We did test other combinations when we originally made mesway, but as the debate on pvx showed, illusion does more damage, so illusion caller is too good to pass up on, when combined with arcane conundrum + CoP + constant Keystone rupts, there isnt much that can go wrong. And yes, Shadow, Mesway has become the standard build to run amongst most average-good guilds who do fow  --Dont Tell Dave 18:43, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Go head with the changes-- Relyk 19:39, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * To be honest, that's all terrible. What's the point of replacing slow and bad that's still meta with nearly-as-slow (if not just as slow or slower) variants. It makes no sense at all. With UW, you had beginner and PUG friendly builds (like this FoW team build) then a much better advanced build. And since that change, the PUG landscape has moved towards the advanced tactics which I think is great.
 * FoW is a bit different and I feel it deserves a range of team builds.
 * T2 way... What pugs do now is severely slow and hasn't been updated throughout the games changes since the Dervish update. First off, only two terras. T2 runs, get's a quest, does the cave, then kills Khobay. Any decent T2 is done 3 minutes after forge quests and afk'ing in forge for the rest of the run. T1 has a tedious job after battlefield that starts with the burning forest and ending with Tower of Strength. Low 20's for this run is optimistic for most teams and with the rate that PUG terras fail, many runs take double that. I say let t2 stay here with it's meaningless variants and I hope it goes the way of UW teams with Ele t1s, Sin t2s, and Sin t4s.
 * T3 way is the alliance/guild run of choice of decent players. With a proper 3 terras - a Ranger split and a Wailing Forest terra, runs are much shorter. The main team is accelerated by having a ritualist that solo's ToC, a t3 pre-balling battlefield, the t2 split tanking the south side of forge at defend. Oh, and they don't have to do Wailing Forest. The Ranger split makes much more sense, not only here, but in t2 way. In essence, PUG runs have almost leech roles (I'm looking at you T2, EoE, UA, and MoP... and you lazy spikers). By giving everyone a bit more responsibility, runs are faster and easy. Casual runs taking 14-15 minutes, a few tactics tweaks and it can be pushed to 12-13.
 * T4 way accelerates the run. It's not very popular because everyone seems to have their own tactics when they try pugging. And in alliances who have a clue, casuals are dominated by t3 way and guild time pushes are t5 way.
 * T5 way is the record team of choice. I don't really think it has a place here in pvx, but it's worth mentioning.
 * Also note, in response to what's been mentioned above:
 * Mesmer Spike was fine before the HM update, but now things have more health and armor ignoring damage doesn't matter as much. This spike is definitely slower than just 2 Dervishes. People still want to do it because either they remember it being valid for t3 way or because they haven't done a proper manly t3 way. Before people start bickering about this, refer to the bolded phrase above. It's not opinion, it's fact.
 * Three Keystones? Ew.
 * Manly as a spike isn't outdated. There's a reason why the records, current and past, have Dervishes and not Mesmers. Again, see my bolded point for added emphasis.--Zherbus 14:55, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You are bad. T2way can do ~14minute runs. T3way with rangersplit can do 10/11minute runs. T4= 9minute runs, T5 can do an 8, and the 7min record was technically T6 if you count the person who did forge as a terra. T2way is slow because pugs are bad. giving people more responsibility (like with rangersplit or T3) is just unsuccessful with pugs. that is why Mesway isnt popular, when we made it, we brought pugs, and it didnt stick. T4way in all honesty is pointless, you gain like a couple of minutes tops for less faceroll spikes, and more chance of a bad terra dying. T4way got posted + rejected here for those reason. also 1derv + 1 dwg rit spiker is >> 2 dervs alone, but whatever. Mesway is no slower, people just suck at using the skills. claiming that your opinions are fact does not make them so. Nothing in fow was slowed down (in casual runs) with the health changes. You are being stupid, the past records had manly spikers because mes and rit and now derv spikers were not even viable cause they hadnt been buffed yet even ranger split wasnt invented for the older manlyway records. The current 7min record is 2 rits. mesway is better than manlyway for casual runs, manlyway is outdated, you, like all pugs just get all butthurt about change. --Dont Tell Dave 17:53, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm bad, stupid, and butthurt? Hardly. But you are flat out wrong. Explain these pictures in relation to your last few sentences.

High 8 min pic Current Record. The 7 minute record was before the HM update (regarding health increases and greater resilience to armor ignoring damage) and the DWG change. That's not current. If you won't even discuss the point, but instead hurl insults, then I think you and I are done here. --75.138.225.11 16:12, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I was part of the core team of ~12 people involved with that 7min record, this 8minute record is just laughable and doesn't impress me.comparing record bars + tactics to the casual bars is retarded. Hell in that picture you proved that as i said, 1 derv + 1 dwg is > 2 dervs. t2way manlyway IS outdated. You haven't addressed any of the points i made, you just posted an unimpressive 8minute screen and then said all of nothing. Also, i said that statement BEFORE that 8min record was posted, lol. i honestly dont care about "new" meta records, the only records which actually matter(ed) are the All-time ones, and considering a 7minute is still doable that screen of a VERY high 8 is lackluster, but i digress. "past" records had war + nec spikers (i mean the REALLY old records). I do not consider any of the post-hm update records for 8man fow actual records, mostly because the good people who actually did the previous records have all retired (HRUU + Zraw teams) and the people who are currently posting "record" times of 10/9 and now high 8minute runs are just amusing, and i question whether they could actually tie the 7minute or not. 2 dervishes are inferior to 1 derv + 1 rit. that is fact. Manlyspike is the use of mop + 100b (now derv) to trigger mop as a spike. a dervish + rit composition is arguably not manlyspike. now feel free to address my point that manlyway casual runs just arent worth it. T3way (and even t2way if you added a monk) mesway is superior, T4way 2x dwg or 1 dwg + 1 derv is superior, record tactics arent up for debate here. by the way, this debate is hella de-railed. --Dont Tell Dave 17:29, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I miss the old fow records qq. Banhammer op. Life Guardian 20:31, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

T1 - Does Armor of Earth really need to be mainbar?
Personally, I don't see why Armor of Earth needs to be mainbar for T1. The only place that really needs it is Burning Forest, but an experienced player can survive by fast pulls/slivers and using Death's Charge to heal. Random Weird Guy 22:13, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * ^Experienced players won't be following the mainbar, they're the ones using those optionals below explicitly stating experienced players use. I think falrach put it on mainbar because Armor of Earth is the best option for new players.-- Relyk 22:23, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * By that logic, shouldn't Armor of Earth be mainbar on MT as well? Random Weird Guy 22:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well running unseen in stead of armor as MT is much more common than skipping on armor as T1. Terra Zero 17:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

T1 optionals + usage?
I want to improve my t1 times. I'm already using optionals instead of mentals, but i want to know whats best. I've tried "Finish Him!", Vipers Defense and Snow Storm. "Finish Him!" was really fun to play with, its usefull at battlefield and at tos, but i feel like there are better options. Vipers Defense was fast for tos pre-clear, but for tos spawn it didnt really improved my time. I think im using it wrong somehow =) For Snow Storm, tbh,I hated it. The only place it was little usefull was tos, but somehow the abyssals escape my block no matter where. Rangers scattered right the second i used it, so it wasnt usefull for ranger clean-up either.

I'd like to know what you guys think is the best and especially, how to use it correctly. Yes, rangersplit is way faster, but im asking for best assassin tactics right now. 62.195.33.72 19:15, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

t3+ways
just wondering if there's a reason this page only documents t2way. even in pugs i think t3way is more common now. &#9823;Fianchetto 18:12, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Terra variants
I'm the only one, who do T1/T1 split with my El? =3

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If you are stuck, one sliver desagro mobs, kill Impaler or spamm Balthazar's Spirit to prevent rupt at battlefield. KurtyAchile 07:03, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Mop problem
noticed that Mop only has the N/A build which is fine but in the description it puts"Use Foul Feast/"It's Just a Flesh Wound." to remove Blind from the warriors or dervishes." which can't happen unless u are N/P, so i was wondering if we should add the N/P mop or get rid of the "It's Just a Flesh Wound" part of the descrpition, because the main part of going N/P is that elite and the Fall back, just my 2 cents (Xkewl 21:16, 29 May 2012 (UTC))

Remove 100b
why is this even still on the page? yes i know some people can still use this but its not worth teaching general population. we remove bad UWsc spike builds right? why should this stay then? I Smell Monks 21:30, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Not our problem, it's still used widely. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 22:03, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a variant, so it wouldn't be removed either way.-- Relyk 22:26, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

the reason its widely used is because its on this page.... its not near the effective level of a vos. point of this article is to what again? I Smell Monks 22:55, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It's used because 100b was the original build used in Manlyway, and it's still just as effective as it used to be. <font color=6C87A3>jī·gō·dǔ -  22:58, 3 Jun 2012 (UTC)
 * it is not effective as Vos.... I Smell Monks 00:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * No it's not, but it's still effective at spiking if you're not completely inept. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 00:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What the fuck Monk, nice job conveniently editting my comment to be something completely different than it was meant to be. You know what's also inferior? Me/Rt DwG's in Frostway. You know why we keep it on there? Because this game is dead, and if you have a profession that can be effective at a role, regardless of whether it's inferior to another profession, it's worth it to add as a variant. Everyone knows VoS is superior to 100B, so if they're really that concerned with it they'll just turn warriors down. It's still worth it to keep the build on this page so some sick fuck doesn't put healsig on their bar. <font color=6C87A3>jī·gō·dǔ -  0:54, 4 Jun 2012 (UTC)
 * In the context of this particular team, there is really no difference between the two builds tbh. There are so many failsafes in this spike that slightly less damage from the warriors doesnt matter. It's when you start removing pieces of the spike team that there's a difference. Life Guardian 00:57, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * true the damage is more than enough (even with MoP on the mt), but VoS has other advantages. on splits it is safer and spikes cleaner. and it can ball most individual groups when mt needs to cover other areas. quite a few times me and the other VoS had to spike all the way to wailing forest or tos because of slow/failed terras. it would have been a lot less pretty with 100b(s). &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 14:59, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * splits are irrelevant, we're speaking in the context of this team build, and a 100b can tank even better due to superior armor and a lack of reliance on enchants vs mesmers. You're confusing the viability of warriors in the most pug friendly fow setup there is(this one) vs t3/4/5/6. Life Guardian 04:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me just state what I know; when using VoS dervs, you do not need MoP at all to spike. This means your PUG MoP can suck ass and you will still profit. All dervish need to be able to do is cover VoS when spiking mobs with mesmers and the spike is clean, and if the MoP is active, the spike will be impeccable. Luther 05:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * even in t2way there will be fails and splits will happen. war armour can't compare with derv skills (Mirage Cloak, etc.). that said, i don't believe it's absolutely necessary to remove 100/200b from this page (for old times' sake also), but a note somewhere saying that VoS is more fail-safe would be helpful. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 17:23, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Mirage cloak is an enchant -_- Shatter hurts like a bitch. Life Guardian 03:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * not all groups have Shatter, but all have attacks. and anti-dshot on WWA/Eremite's makes big happy! &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 22:02, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

ranger bars
on this page too? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fianchetto (talk) at 22:03, 6 June 2012‎ (UTC).
 * If you meant the skill code for it, . (Using minor expertise, major beast on headset - 3 expertise is the breakpoint for lowering eoe cost to 4)  <font face="Constantia" color=#D2691E>Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx  14:17, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * oops, i meant R/A's. along with usage/splits/etc. they're a lot faster but it's not on the page for some reason. &#9823;Fianchetto [[Image:Mending.jpg|19px|link=User_talk:Fianchetto]] 18:32, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

ToS
As T1 I've died at ToS a couple of times after being spiked from around 25% health with SF, SoD, AoE all up. Any idea how to avoid this without using up the optional slot? (I was running FH as my optional). Random Weird Guy 16:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Equip a shield. Falrach   Talk   20:13, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I was using full infiltrators with shields against piercing and blunt (tried it with both, got spiked with both). I'm currently running with mental block and I haven't died at all, runs are just slightly slower. I think power shot might have something to do with it? Armor-ignoring so the only thing that helps is damage reduction and more blocking (e.g. mental block). Random Weird Guy 20:33, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Chain IAU and sliver, obstruct rangers when sliver is down. Make sure your shields don't have inherent mods, and as long as there are abyssals, use blunt shield. Falrach   Talk   21:15, 2 July 2012 (UTC)