Build talk:Team - 3 Hero Discordway/Archive 1

Any comments and changes would be appreciated (and yes i forgot to log in...) Smurf Minions 12:50, 29 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Shouldn't it be "Weakener" and not "Weaker"? ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡ ͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡  I͡n͡f͡i͡d͡e͡l  ̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲| ̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı__̡͌l̡*  00:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Now that Discord has a one second activation time i think you should switch Mind Bender it out for a better PvE skill. if shadow of fear 2 sec activation seems like a problem switch it for something like the already mentioned suffering or Pbond. Watch me work it 04:31, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Discord used to have 2 seconds activation. It was buffed. - 04:46, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
 * i know, thats why i typed 'now that'. Watch me work it 05:01, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Why would you want to stop using it because it was buffed? Do you mean switch out Necrosis? Discord still has a 2 second recharge, so does necrosis. This way you can spam spam spam more. Necrosis only does slightly less damage, even with aftercast I think you'd win. - 06:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
 * i meant switch out Mind Bender, sorry typed it wrong ;), Mind Bender is still useful but so are lots of other PvE only skills.Watch me work it 12:43, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

&not; Klump eet  07:36 {GMT} 31-05-MMVIII
 * Weapon of Warding>Resilient with all that condition removal
 * Mend Body and Soul>Vengeful Weapon
 * The minion bomber should be necro primary to have a hope of maintaining energy.
 * Infuse Condition isn't useful there because it doesn't have any form of draw and isn't meant to be tanking.
 * I also think a normal necro MM is better, i use that myself but haven't tried the rit one so not commenting about it. Resilient weapon is great for its armor, since you will have almost only low armor partymembers, and Mend Body and Soul>Vengeful Weapon really depends on the situation. Btw, signet of lost souls overkill imo since you already have SR and a minion bomber. Watch me work it 04:29, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't really have a problem with having a N/Rt Bomber, although I would take out Discord for Jagged Bones, Infuse Condition for Animate Shambling Horror and possibly find room for Spirit's Gift (for lots of small heals for your Minions). Some skills to consider for your Rt/Ns would be Protective Was Kaolai, Pure Was Li Ming and Weapon of Shadow. -Mike 08:53, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I tried all of these but jagged bones isn't neccesary, animate bone minions is more than enought. one shambling horrors isnt enought, tried taking shambling on 2-3 necro but then they all cast it at same time which greatly lowers efficiency. infuse conditions isn't worth taking i agree. i also took PwK on every N/Rt, works really really well. another advantage of a necro Minion bomber is that you have room for a secondary, creating room for the always useful Protective Spirit. Watch me work it 10:01, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree on you guys, i think i'll switch the bomber to n/mo with aegis, PS and SoA, and PwK isnt that bad idea to have on 1 n/rt Smurf Minions 15:03, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Variant
I've been using this for HM:

Kills fast. Insane single-target damage, lots of aoe. I wouldn't really recommend Assassin's Promise without some good PvE skills to go with it though. Thought about switching the necs to N/Rt's but meh, haven't really messed around with it so far. P A R A S I T I C 18:00, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Vengance =P --Fallen (talk ) 18:22, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 * It's like a temp res - by the time the 30secs is over, the battle is usually almost done and the death is a free corpse. As for the posted build: I'd put Enfeebling Blood on the human player - the player will always use it better than a hero, and that's important because of how much damage it reduces. I'd just drop Weaken Armor, but put it on a hero if you really want it. Too many res skills imo. Use 1 or 2, but 3 is abit overkill. At least put Death Pact Sig on one of them. I'd take Rising Bile off the human bar - the 20secs is abit too long for PvE and the target might be dead by then, or the aoe damage won't even do anything by the time it does trigger....Replace with Putrid Bile. Replace the Res too....the human player should be taking advantage of all 8 skills, not 7 + a res. Not sure about Rotting Flesh - I never liked it in PvE, but I also haven't tried it out for a Discord team build, so I can't really comment on it. A few people bash Discord in PvE for being single-target damage, but it's also in a line with plenty of aoe. The human bar can change to something else and bring more aoe if needed. The strength of high single-target damage is being able to kill specific threats alot easier in HM. P A R A S I T I C 07:35, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * ^^What he said. Rotting Flesh is good though, as most PvE enemies aren't human, meaning no drawback. Plus it helps getting conditions on every, thus making Discord almost unconditional. But, in all honesty, Sab-way is much better.--Fallen (talk ) 12:37, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Indeed, as opposed to Dorks, oops, Droks who trolls vengeance in pvp builds in a time of heavy enchantment removal meta in pve the skill after it's buff would prove very helpful as it unconditionally resurrects with full health and energy preventing further dp also, it is good. As for enfeebling on the second nec indeed, I doubt heroes chaining this skill well infact you invest alot of points in curses for the sake of one skill having a curse necro elready. --Tiger  [[Image:Tiger's Fury Tigrr.jpg|19px]]  grrr!!  12:46, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Discord teams arn't really comparable to "Sabway" (which really is just a compiled setup of old builds) in anyway, except that there's 3 necs. Sabway relies alot more on minions to do damage. It has almost no direct damage at all. SS is pretty bad on a hero since they'll rarely ever use it on the best targets. With Discord x3, you have pretty much enough damage to pick out any enemy from a mob and have it dead right there. P A R A S I T I C 17:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, I run DB/MB on my sin, and coupled with Sab's stuff and physical henches, I clear mobs before Crit Agility recharges. That's really all I care about. I just don't see Discord having the same affect. I'm all for trying it when my account is unbanned, but I'm always going to abide by some variation of Sab's build.--Fallen (talk ) 23:31, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

I'll give this variant a try soon, looks odd but who knows,could be just as effective or even better! Watch me work it 15:51, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * An x/A with Assassin's Promise should be just as good, or even better in some situations....Cry of Pain spam > mobs. An Assacaster could also fit the role and would still have it's 2ndary open. P A R A S I T I C 00:01, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 * This really works out very well, you only need the first 3 skills and hero's will finish it, as for bosses, it still lasts long enough :), i'll give it a try with putrid explosion soon Smurf Minions 05:34, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
 * But Just use N/Rt healers, that works way better than healing prayer N/Mo. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]Watch me work it 12:44, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

Do not hack your game
Prot - 9+1 on a primary necromancer would be impossible without hacking the game I assume, unfortunately it is against the rules. :) --Tiger   grrr!!  12:50, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Common hat, prot wand. 99.242.229.12 22:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Did anyone who rated it 0-1 actually tried it?
As i see, you guys think it's 'sabway' with discord as elite, it isn't as it's a normal minion bomber with 2 half n/rt healers from HA, nothing sab's on that. Smurf Minions 15:23, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * yeh people crying about single target damage < Aoe clearly haven't tried this.Watch me work it 15:53, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
 * The people complaining about single-target damage don't seem to know what Death Nova or Putrid Bile do. If you don't want minions, Putrid Explosion whoops pretty hard too. The people trying to compare this to Sabway have never stepped into HA. P A R A S I T I C 00:01, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

Variant
I've been trying some things with the Assassin's Promise variant and i figured out that his works the best:

The 3 curses spells on the main player are more a backup, you need only the first 4 skills, the rest is obvious :) Smurf Minions 04:17, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Looks good, heroes know how to use Dwayna's Sorrow? [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]Watch me work it 05:11, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Yup, they use it on minions and when they go boom you get 20 health for each minion that was effected :) Smurf Minions 06:59, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

One Putrid Bile is enough imo. Watch me work it 07:30, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
 * You get more AoE with 2 putrids as it has 12 seconds recharge Smurf Minions 08:04, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I suggest making this variant the main build, it's better in most situations, and though I don't agree entirely on the skills on the heroes, thats just detail. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]Watch me work it 13:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Just did Ring of Fire HM with this build and it worked very well! I even wasn't infused and had no big problems :D 78.49.29.192 16:55, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Yet another "Variant"
OKhere's what I've been using since... well it's been a long time. But anyway, it is way more aggressive than the build with the 2 N/rts (I don't know why there is 2 TBH but w/e).

Mind bender is optional really but I really like how fast things go with it. It can tank a lot, and even one of the MM's death isn't a critical mistake. Since most of the builds posted here seem to focus on fleshy areas, malign intervention is totally the way to go if you want a hex. You get a hex, 20% reduction, a minion for 5e, and if it dies, soul reaping. You can even cast assassin's promise at the end of a fight if you haven't on the last mob, just be carefull not to turn it ally then. Note that this build totally sucks in non fleshy area, and it was not designed for that anyway. I know, Vengeance, but it used to be a res sig so replace it if needed. I never use the res sig either so it could be replaced by whatever. 88.169.112.155 06:43, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I stopped looking after seeing you had Vengeance... God  box    06:55, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * And thats why I said you could replace it by whatever res you want. 88.169.112.155 09:24, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
 * 2 N/Rt is a win/win situation, killing isn't a problem so why not bring some more heals yeh?, and bring you move like a dwarf it's one of the best skills in-game especially if you can spam it every 3 sec orso. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Green">Watch me work it  06:17, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

MM
Get rid of Dwayna's Sorrow, just use the Sabway MM layout.--<font color="99CCFF">R ELYK   <font color="CCCCFF">ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ  20:59, 12 July 2008 (EDT) Did anyone notice the 3 necros trying to cast minions at a corpse at the same time, then 2 would fail? DarkSpirit 11:52, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Player
The build is impossible without the hacking again :P 4 pve skills in 1 bar isnt possible without hacking &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.203.43.44 (contribs).
 * Fixed. God  box    07:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Smooth criminal in warriors optional skills is impossible as well. Gunnm 12:57, 28 January 2009 (EST)
 * Geez what is it with people and 'hacking' can't we assume that that's impossible and just say someone goofed up the skill points again :) --82.70.173.139 00:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Variant
Just keep the heroes the same and let the player choose his primary and secondary, make it more like a group of heroes kinda like sabway that vanquish anything, just get rid of the build that the player should use and add it in variants, cause i think it would be better if it wasnt a necro build, but a hero build, other wise you could just title this Build: N/any Discord Spam Team.-- Fire   Tock  herd yuo liek mudkipz. 18:46, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree with that, as i use a N/A (player) just for assassins promise, and watch me and i thought about other things with other professions that are also nice. Smurf Minions 03:36, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I say leave it as it is, if people cant figure out that they can change a build in the team they shouldent get a better build. I'm using Me/Any for DW and it kills faster ^^ Dumazz 11:38, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Phantom Pain + Shatter delusions can be painfull too, and with that you still have alot of place for almost anything :), as i said, the player has alot of room for his own ideas, you probably don't even need to take something that synchronizes with the build, only need to call a target (though bringing up a hex+condition at a target + calling it works good) Smurf Minions 12:11, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
 * ok, then i'l just put in variants that you dont need to be a primary necro and can just use the heroes with another build.-- Fire [[Image:Mudkipz TNP.gif|19px]]  Tock  herd yuo liek mudkipz. 09:40, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
 * My bar if anyone need it
 * Just use 2 for a hex, and to speed up the next spells, then 3 or 4 followed by 5 for a condition. 6 and 7 is just extra hexes and E-management Dumazz 04:16, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

What if we just put in a bar for every profession? Smurf Minions 06:01, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Ooh, i got the perfect one, -- Fire [[Image:Mudkipz TNP.gif|19px]]  Tock  herd yuo liek mudkipz. 09:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * or you could just do this...

[build prof=any/N death=12 cur=12][Discord][Necrosis][Pain Inverter][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Mindbender][Resurrection Signet][/build] -- Fire   Tock  herd yuo liek mudkipz. 09:40, 16 July 2008 (EDT) Because thats going to work with non primary necros, 14 death magic.
 * yeah-huh!!!!
 * This is pretty much what i have been running on my (primary necro) to vanquish eye of the north + some of the dungeons and it is working great :) Once you are runed up and off into battle you wont regret it... T1Cybernetic 06:36, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

other professions
hey guys I use a paragon ALWAYS. I vanquish alot and do guardian, and im getting bored of sab-way and paraway. This build has been looking pretty interesting to me, but i dont want to waste money getting my heroes runes and equipment for the discord spam build because I am not sure how well it will work if I am running a paragon primary (always an imbagon). That any/N bar above will probably not work cause paragons dont have good energy management without shouts, so I was wondering if one of you might be able to post a paraogn build for me. ThanksKlomi 13:51, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * give your heroes some hexes like suffering and Parasitic bond so you only have to take care of the conditions, barbed spear could be good. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Green">Watch me work it 04:07, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Another Variant, Dervish/Necro Specifically
I love using this build with my Necro primary character, however my Dervish is whom I have worked the most on and wanted to use this build with said toon. And this is purely as an alternative to the */N Discord spammer above since I haven't finished Factions and couldn't be bothered to pay for an Elite Tome for Discord.

[build prof=D/N myst=10+1 cur=12 scythe=8+1][Avatar of Lyssa][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Shadow of Fear][Mindbender][Pain Inverter][Eternal Aura][Faithful Intervention][/build]

So, I guess this variant (along with a +15 staff with 20% Ench / +30 depending on your choice of flavour) gives the derv an abundance of energy, and ability to recharge AoL quickly to keep up the mana count. That and enchants running out = more energy back and minor healing. And a bit more oomph to attacks if you decide to swap out to a Scythe when energy runs a bit dry. Just a thought. Sureshot 19:21, 8 August 2008 (EDT)


 * I recommend using withering aura. especially on a dervish powered by enchants. Bring mystic sweep then 88.169.112.155 05:26, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
 * remove Pain Inverter for Signet of Corruption--74.70.73.106 21:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Asuran Scan
0 sec cast. Phys clases got a good hex to use with this now. P A R A S I T I C 20:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Imo you should change the human to x/A and have assassin's promise, YMLaD, and Finish him, and suggest options for the open skills, considering that would work on almost any class Driggy 19:52, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
 * we all know that, but smurf minions is lazy and so is everyone else.[[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Green">Watch me work it 06:06, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * lol alright, just trying to help and it did look like it had already been suggested enough times... dunno why i took the time to edit but i did anyways (boredom) Driggy 00:20, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You can edit yourself you know? :P Smurf Minions 05:43, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * wounding strike+asuran scan = DW+easy call+ discord reqs met. gg.--136.165.5.227 11:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Optionals
I've edited the players bar, and posted some options for the primary profession, if you have anymore ideas just add them. Smurf Minions 05:59, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * What about replacing "You Move Like a Dwarf!" with Technobabble? Ghostwheel 00:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)

HERO
tag should be added since it is more of a hero team then a player team Majikmajikmajik 22:55, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

Archive:N/any Flesh Golem MM
Would synergize greatly with this team and a party full of physicals. I is   * Je b us *    <font size=0.5>Enter my contests! 15:42, 18 September 2008 (EDT)


 * would also sync with the ebon assassins Majikmajikmajik 22:45, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
 * The Ebon Sin has horrible AI - if you cast it on somethin that's adjacent to another enemy, the chances of it attacking your target are really really low. So it actually has bad synergy with MoP. I stopped using it cause of that. If you're playing as primary Nec, you can bring MoP yourself since it'll be recharged by AP. Without it, the 20sec recharge on it is pretty bad. Even worse on a hero. If you really wanna use it, just drop the Restor points from one of the necs and spec into Curses then add it along with Enfeebling Blood. P A R A S I T I C 18:30, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Easy caller for any professions
"You Move Like a Dwarf!" + Assassin's Promise can be used on any profession to make a strong caller. All the other player builds on this page are too energy intensive for Warriors and Paragons. Teutonic 16:33, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * This is meant for casters. If you're a Warrior, you should just run Sabway. If you're a Paragon, run Racnothway. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;"> Guild  of   Deals   16:35, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Withering Aura + Asuran Scan. Now melee classes can run Discord heroes. Btw, Sab/Racway are far from being the best choices. P A R A S I T I C 06:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

sub par bars
Animate shambling horrors??? Because even if you micro it, competing for bodies with the MM is a good thing, right? Variant at best. Enfeebling blood is easily better than rotting flesh, and only 9 resto???? And why is there no fish hex? No foul feast. 1 MBaS is not enough...--72.130.220.204 19:44, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

There are too many complaints about this build being too energy intensive for Paragons and Warriors. If it is not for Paragons and Warriors please dont fake it and state that it is for ALL PROFESSIONS, otherwise do some energy calculations and convince us how all 3 10e PvE skills can work for my them. This is obviously a caster build, my warrior doesn't need all these minion protection because he would be in the front lines. And no enfeebling blood and splinter weapon? There are too many problems with this build. DarkSpirit 11:42, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 * Haven't you heard? Warriors with staves are the new meta!! Oh and yeh, fuck minions!! We don't want no attacking wall protecting the rest of the team! The worior will tank everything! WORIORS RULE PVE AND PVP!!! I SOLO WHOLE PVE CAMPAIGN WITH MY WORIOR! Taking minions would make the other warriors think we are pussies anyway  — <small style='font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;'> Sazzy Pooh [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]11:53, 12 November 2008 (EST) 

Ah..I should have used a staff on my warrior for this build to work. LOL! DarkSpirit 20:32, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 * I have to agree here. The use of discord on its own is fine; a spammable spell that only requires a hex/enchantment+condition makes for good teamwork. But minion skills on all necro heroes seems to SCREAM skill failure (heroes will activate minion skills on the nearest corpse, at a pretty high priority). And to piggyback off of DarkSpirit, the caller build cant really work with 2pip professions (warrior, paragon). Its obvious that 2 pips is never enough to manage consistent casting.--136.165.5.227 10:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

cleanup
done some but not sure about the enite optionals section for the caller, pretty much every single skill in game can be chucked in there so is there any point having that section? --204.8.156.142 07:31, 16 November 2008 (EST)

paragon = warrior's nrg?
u don't say anything about warrior being bad to go with the build, but you say that paragons isn't recomended? they have same nrg (max and reg). plus, a paragon can take some shouts/shants to help the nrg a little, but a warrior... well i don't really know but i think that paragon would be more to recomend then warrior. but thats maby just me :P

if it's "you move like a dwarf" thats the nrg prob why not take "your all weaklings"? no dmg but it's a condition. now you don't going to tell me that my brother can't use this build with his para, "mister person who is going to coment me" ;)--80.73.58.222 12:55, 22 November 2008 (EST)
 * Wow. Kabu To 16:59, 22 November 2008 (EST)

11-10-8-8
is not possible. I generally like the changes, but that needs to be fixed. 10-10-8-8? Also paragon does work. TNtF as the 3rd optional, furious spear and either energizing chorus or GftE as E-management. --Thc 12:08, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Optionals
Optional section for caller needs to be removed. People fit all sort of shit in the 5 optional slots availible. No you dont need assassin or sniper supports. --Anonimous. 10:08, 29 November 2008 (EST)
 * I've tried both with and without Assassin Support, and it makes a whole lotta difference. First off, it's a decent damage spike, often dealing ~80 damage even in HM. Second, it knock-locks the enemy--I've caught mesmers in HM mid-casting Cry of Frustration by chaining "You Move Like a Dwarf!" with Assassin Support. Third, it's an expendable ally--in HM, all the nukes are gonna come down as soon as someone's in the aggro bubble. If the assassin takes the heat, you have an expendable corpse, AND the assasin's taken hundreds of damage instead of a team member as all spikes concentrate on him. And finally, he body-blocks a bit, which can give you the few seconds which make the difference between life and death in HM. All in all, Assassin Support feels like the best choice all-around for the fourth slot. Ghostwheel 14:57, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Problem with D-way.
Two/Three skills on each bar, every thing else is sandbox. THERE IS NO GENERIC BUILD! --Anonimous. 18:44, 3 December 2008 (EST)
 * These bars are really not that good. 71.175.59.85 14:08, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Varient
Idk

Haven't tried it yet but idk Shazam's My Ho  ( Cuz I'm Roflrockets ) 22:18, 29 December 2008 (EST)

another variant for player
[build prof=any/a deadly=12 dagger=12][assassin's promise][shadow fang]["you move like a dwarf!"][falling lotus strike][death blossom]["i am the strongest!"][Optional][resurrection signet][/build] this build kills faster than the the one on main page and is nrg friendly for all proffesions expect war and para. 4got to sign above.--<font color="Blue">Da Blue User <font color="Blue">Is  <font color="Blue">Blue  <font color="Blue">is looking for TA/HA guild  16:39, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * not as universal [[Image:Tai_sig_Image_78.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">16:47, 2 January 2009 
 * how so? it needs no crit strikes for nrg which makes the build doable for every proffesion, exepct war and para ofc b/c of there nrg regen.--<font color="Blue">Da Blue User  <font color="Blue">Is  <font color="Blue">Blue  <font color="Blue">is looking for TA/HA guild  17:01, 2 January 2009 (EST)
 * Going into melee range with a flimsy caster in HM makes me kinda go "ugh". Better off staying at range and letting the minions take the aggro IMO. Ghostwheel 14:53, 6 January 2009 (EST)


 * By "kills faster" do you mean not at all? EVAS alone replaces half your bar AND is unblockable + knocklock.  Also, the above bar assumes exceedingly slow kills.  --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  15:02, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Meekness > Shadow of Fear
Sure it has high energy cost and 17% sacrifice but it is "all foes in the area", with this amount of minnions and Soul Reaping the Necromancer will be sure to have enough energy. And this teambuild should be able to outheal the 17% sacrifice easily on its own. 62.45.134.148 05:25, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * To be honest the only reasons i choose shadow of fear over meekness is because i usually ball enemies into groups where possible to kill a bit easier and faster plus it is cheaper in energy cost and a tad more spammable in areas with hex removal ;) T1Cybernetic 06:39, 5 February 2009 (EST)

Why should you worry about 5 more energy? It is a 3 necro build with a MM in it, duh. Meekness is better because it has a wider area which means no fear of hex removal. DarkSpirit 11:33, 17 February 2009 (EST)

necro caller
if taking discord...do you just replace assassins promise? and take some aoe hex/conditions in optional slots? Illoyon 20:42, 5 February 2009 (EST)
 * No, you take assassin's promise. It's very rare that AP is not your best option, even against hex removal or healers.  If you really, really don't want to take AP take necrosis and don't waste attribute points.  --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  21:14, 5 February 2009 (EST)

Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
i read this could be used as a tank...but the enemys just ignore it...so what i am doing wrong? Illoyon 08:33, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * the enemies aren't going to suddenly change target if the aggro is already on you. if you start the battle by casting one then back off and let the enemies surround it..? .. and watch it get raped. tbh I think it's just someone theorycrafting, but I could be wrong. -- -Ch ao s-   09:33, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * I've seen it work, although it dies in like 1 second literally. Just enough time for the minions to march in and take aggro.  Tbh, it's only really useful against heavy AoE.  --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  14:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * Those sins still soak aggro rather well it doesnt mean that everything would rush to attack them though. --Anonimous. D: 14:24, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * If you cast it on the closest target, then yes, everything will attack it, since nothing else is in range. But it dies in literally 1 sec or less, so the usefulness is questionable  --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  16:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * It makes foes waste skills on useless targets. -- -Ch ao s-   07:34, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * That's true, I guess. --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc 00:55, 12 February 2009 (EST)


 * Thc, lets assume that your ebon vanguard rank is 8 or above it is not hard to achieve when youre going for discord anyway. --Anonimous. D: 07:54, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * Okay, done. Now say something useful?  --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  00:55, 12 February 2009 (EST)

Mark of Death
Useful when taking on things in healer infested areas like Eastern Frontier and can be used as a cover hex for AP. Add it to variants?--68.32.187.152 17:09, 14 February 2009 (EST)

Broken Template
It seems that the Curse Resto template is broken. At least for me, can someone check/replace it with a good one?
 * not broken for me. here's the code for you: OAhkUoG4BGqTMzOgI2dDTpJ1+iB <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 08:46, 15 February 2009 (EST)

revert war
just variant them both. in my personal opinion, enduring toxin sucks for mainbar, but I'll post here before I revert more... -- -Ch ao s-   10:03, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Well, I agree with IP's thinking on Enduring Toxin actually. --Anonimous. D: 10:07, 15 February 2009 (EST)

stop being so fucking retarded
stop being that you just defend a position like retards, I made the last version of this discord now Im updating it for a newer one because its way better. Researching into discordway I have discovered that having another copy of bile and bone minions is redundant and two mms kept interfering with each other so it bad, new version has better defense, it has wow 12 resto and such also double shamblings for extremely fast exploiting which it was originally intended for. Enduring Toxin is fantastic against high hp mobs that might not get killed as fast and mark of death is godly with dw and has recieved positive feedback for everyone who used it so stfu and stop reverting.
 * You also defend a position like a retard, and you also revert. 10:11, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Thats how pvx works, nobody would care about evaluating edits by any unfamiliar user/IP I had same problems before. --Anonimous. D: 10:15, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * How is enduring toxin mainbar? Barbs and MoP are both far superior against healers.  ET is only decent if you have no other options... so it should be in optional, at best.  -THC
 * Because people are being retarded. It's like "yay, degen!" in a team relying on strong damage spam. -- -Ch ao s-   14:38, 15 February 2009 (EST)

Stop trolling with enduring toxin
It is 4 degen. It is not good. Stop --<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  12:19, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * lol, think it's for the degen? -- &mdash;The preceding trolling attempt was made by Chaos (talk) . 12:33, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Leave it optional. Chaos, you don't need a cover hex because you don't cast AP until the enemy is right at 1/2 health, and then you use Finish Him and it's over. Cover hexes are fucking retarded on this build. If some people are too stupid to figure out when to use AP, then leave it in the variants, but imo it's a pointless addition. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]] (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">12:38, 18 February 2009 - )
 * When I run this my heroes use different bars, so what I said above is invalid. Although, I still think it should be left optional. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]] (→<font face="Arial" color="gray">13:00, 18 February 2009 - )
 * Is what I did, but Anon RV1'd it. -- &mdash;The preceding trolling attempt was made by Chaos (talk) . 13:02, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * No I don't think it's for degen. It's a cover hex, but there are obv better cover hexes available, such as barbs/MoP if you're a necro.  Thus, optional--<font color="Blue">User: <font color="Green">Thc  18:20, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * I personally dont perfer enduring toxin, but a 1/4 cast hex, with a quick recharge is always nice. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 18:47, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Thats same reason I liked that idea. Maybe it should be kept optional because Mesmers posess better options for same purpose.
 * @Thc:
 * If you realise that ET is not for degen why are you suggesting MoP/Barbs for cover hexes? --Anonimous. D: 19:11, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * becase those are some useful skills? -- &mdash;The preceding trolling attempt was made by Chaos (talk) . 05:50, 19 February 2009 (EST)
 * MoP/Barbs are useless as cover hexes, long casting time. --Anonimous. D: 05:51, 19 February 2009 (EST)
 * Any cover hex that casts in one second or less is alright. -- &mdash;The preceding trolling attempt was made by Chaos (talk) . 06:30, 19 February 2009 (EST)
 * PI is a half decent cover hex >.> And somewhat useful. [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 00:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * With PI, you have to give up a PvE skill and you need YMLaD for the condition, EVA because....well...he's the main reason for the build, and FH to kill off the bastard. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]](→<font face="Arial" color="gray">18:54, 20 February 2009 - )


 * @Anon
 * You're right, barbs is not a cover hex, but I meant it's a hex that prevents AP from being removed (e.g., you cast barbs first). ET is not a good hex and definitely not main bar material.  Here's why:
 * 1) Has an irrelevant effect and has no guarantee of lasting more than 5 seconds.
 * 2) Hex removal is not enough vs. smart play.
 * 2) The only time a cover hex is needed is vs. multiple healers. In the case of multiple healers, you want more damage.  Barbs provides the equivalent of something 40+ degen.  For damage purposes, the choice is clear.
 * 3) Vs. a single healer with hex removal, hex removal is irrelevant. You simply knocklock it and kill it.
 * 4) Vs. high HP opponents, AP becomes less important than DPS. Barbs lets you DPS, speeding along play.  --Zaney 04:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You make some good points, but if I were you guys, I would rework the hero bars so you don't need a cover hex (or condition for that matter). I honestly prefer to run PI on my bar over YMLaD and have my heroes provide the conditions/hexes. But that's me. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]](→<font face="Arial" color="gray">18:54, 20 February 2009 - )
 * How would you rework the hero bars to not need a cover hex? Putrid bile and shadow not enough?  --Zaney 18:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't need a cover because you cast AP right before the foe kabooms, being faster than any hex removal is. Usually in mobs where one guy has hex removal they all do, so one cover hex aint gonna do crap. -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The main problem here is that Anon thinks you should cast AP when calling the target and covering AP so it doesn't get pulled. Chaos, Thc, and me all think you should cast AP on the target right before using "FH!" to blow his ass up. We need to decide which one has more appropriate timing (and we know which side I'm on). [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]](→<font face="Arial" color="gray">19:05, 20 February 2009 - )
 * =right before the foe dies. Stop mainbarring that dum ET.. -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:20, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think everyone knows how and why we feel the way we do, Chaos. Let's give Anon a chance to tell us why he believes you need to cast AP first rather than last. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]](→<font face="Arial" color="gray">19:22, 20 February 2009 - )
 * Sometimes you show this amazing patience I'm never gonna achieve. Like with those people on GWW =/ -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, well it's not very often :/ and I think patience is one of those things you just get with age (and working with teens every day). [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]](→<font face="Arial" color="gray">19:31, 20 February 2009 - )
 * It's kinda what I thought. I'm a teen and dumb in terms of social everything, but I have enough of a sense of realism to see what stuff is about.. I just rarely have the patience to make my point clear/handle accordingly. /camp for flaming Anon's reasoning. -- -Ch  ao  s-   19:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You people dont know how to use Discord caller, you dont cast AP right before your target dies you cast it at the start with YMLaD! then Discord x3 with sin and FH are enough to take down any foe before AP ends tats why I liked suggestion for some sort of cover hex. --Anonimous. D: 10:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but not for mainbar.. I already optionaled ET and don't know wtf happened. All areas don't have hex removal to fear. So can I now optional ET and you don't put it back...? -- -Ch  ao  s-   10:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No you cant. --Anonimous. D: 10:36, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Leave the bar alone!--Relyk 10:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * We already agreed over this, actually. Next to change the bar like that is gonna get BBQ'd. -- -Ch  ao  s-   10:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wanna try? --Anonimous. D: 10:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not meaty enough to fulfill the needs of one sausage. -- -Ch  ao  s-   10:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There are so many problems with using ET as a cover hex. First of all, if you are a mesmer, there are obviously better options due to fc.  So straight off, that's 1 profession that ET is 100% inferior for.  Then, as already argued, necro has way better hex options.  Ele would probably have greater success with fish hexes like mark of rodgort or deep freeze, since even a cover hex doesn't protect against deep hex removal, which is actually the most common type of hex removal in EotN.
 * Also, if you really really think you need a cover hex, you can just manual shadow of fear or putrid bile. Problem solved, without wasting a spot on your bar.


 * Finally, like Anon, I use AP as a primer for discord too. But against multiple healers, which is the only time you should have trouble with hex removal, you are just asking for trouble.  Even if it's not removed, there's a good chance it'll just time out anyway.  In these cases, you are going to want stronger hexes such as barbs/MoP or backfire/empathy or deep freeze/maelstrom etc.  --Zaney 19:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Left note when I was varianting: # (cur) (last) 10:35, 21 February 2009 Anonimous. (Talk | contribs) m (6,012 bytes) (necs have better back up hexes mes too so I optional it) (undo).
 * I also dont understand why you call MoR and Maelstorm hexes, they are not. :p
 * Discord can easily power through strong heals especially when you have means to reduce ammount of healing your target recieves. ET I found to be useful for rest of profs who dont have those good "fish" hexes thats why I ensisted on keeping it at least varianted. You can use hexes on your heroes as feed ofcourse but it would take little longer. --Anonimous. D: 21:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Does this work well with warrior?
There has been alot of talk in guru that this build doesn't work well with a W/A and the reasons given are: 1. Wariors have a lower base energy than a caster 2. Wariors only have half the energy regeneration rate of caster (only 2pips) 3. Alot of wasted armor when a staff warrior is not holding aggro in the frontlines.

Why is this build recommending warriors to play this way? Don't they know that warriors make the worst casters?

Some people are starting to think that a W/A caster build is highly recommended by pvxwiki since necro heroes are so popular. DarkSpirit 00:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be pretty obvious that a warrior won't do as well as other classes, though an enduring scyther might be able to work decently. Sabway is probably a better option for a warrior.  I'm not sure where it says this build is recommended for a warrior, but if it is, this is a wiki, change it--Zaney 04:00, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Warriors can also use Racway well --[[Image:Tai_Sig.png]] <small style="font-variant:small-caps"><font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">04:05, 23 February 2009 
 * The word "obvious" can be very subjective, afterall the build does claim to be for any profession/A with even recommendation skills for warriors. Someone in guru suggested putting like this "If you play as a warrior profession and you want to run an AP caller build and you want to use discord, then you may want to bring a staff to help you have the energy needed to spam AP and YMLAD. However, discordway in its entirety is better suited for the casting persuasion."  You dont want some kid to try his AP warrior in HM then realizes that it sucks.--DarkSpirit 16:25, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * use sabway--Relyk 16:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well i made it for necro in first place, but people from my guild have used it with warrior (holding a staff) and using only AP and "YmlaD". They say it is usable with warrior, but not as effective as casters (who can also spam finish him etc) [[Image:Ballsy Smurf.jpg|16px]]<font color='black'>Black smurf  <font color="#00BFFF"> McHippopotas  09:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * And it would be extremely boring--Relyk 07:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Excuse me blacksmurf, YOU made it? -_- [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Green">Watch me work it 16:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I dont see the issue of using warriors with this necro team; it can (or rather should) function as sabway does; on its own. The option to set up a target with a hex+condition is okay, but that can be limited by energy (example being warrior, of course). This is why you carry hexes on 2-3 necros. Not to mention its not difficult to apply a condition with melee in this team (namely, withering aura). IMO, this team works best with melee player (just as sabway does) specifically for the frontline position (and in the case of discord, you have an easy condition app through withering aura). Its basics that you use your energy sparingly and wisely as a warrior; adrenaline is your main currency. Why not make use of Dragon Slash+Save Yourselves? As long as you apply a hex and contition in some form, the build will work. "Conditions by the melee, hexes by the necros" is how I play when it comes to using a frontliner, and I can only say that it works for me on any melee player I use. Casters can easily facilitate the hex+condition calling on their own.--136.165.5.227 10:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This doesn't work as well for a warrior when you compare it side by side to sabway. You dont have Splinter Weapon, you dont have Barbs, and warriors using AP are just not as effective as one using another warrior elite, even if you cut down the rest of the 10e PvE skills which would gimp him further.  As the build stands now, the answer for warriors is to use sabway or some other build.  But some of your suggestions imply, this can be changed to accomodate warriors as well, with the proper variant and I agree. - DarkSpirit 13:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I use discord with my warrior and it's served me well for the most part. I use DSlash; SY; For Great Justice; Finish Him!; Pain Inverter; and I bring Barberous Slice For a condition since I dont have any stances on my bar, and Plague touch & Lions Comfort. The only area I ran into trouble on was a few maps that had a large number of elementals and few corpses; and even then only in HardMode. Instead of weapon of warding I swap in a second putrid bile so I don't have to worry about hexing as much.--<font color="Green">GreenBook 1:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I also use discord on my warr and I don't use AP. I use a modified WE build. Since i'm spamming a couple skills on that bar I hve 29 energy and WE keeps my energy up. I'm just gonna say that I use asuran scan for hexes and the heroes/minions provide the conditions. I'm still dealing 70+ dmg/hit most of the time and with power attack I often hit for 110+. So i'm still killing faster with it than an AP build. 66.232.240.56 14:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I just tried Discordway for the first time with my warrior, and I find it does have serious limitations which I'm not sure caster classes understand. Unless you sacrifice health mods for energy mods, you start with 20 energy. That's enough to cast AP and YMLaD instantly - but then you have only 5 energy left, and EVAS (which is the whole point of this build) costs 10 energy. Warriors only have +2 energy regen, which means they need to wait 7.5 seconds before casting EVAS. Using Succor instead of the Sorrow Discord's minions, as per TedTheFarmer's suggestion below, is a good one, but only halfway fixes the problem - the warrior still needs to wait 5 seconds to cast EVAS. One way to solve this might be to sacrifice three rune slots to Runes of Attunement, or have a +5 energy weapon, or even use Radiant Insignia, but those solutions sacrifice a lot of health. And you've still got another serious problem - as soon as you get any death penalty at all, you're back to waiting for EVAS! For these reasons, I think a variant section for warriors is necessary, because the standard build just isn't going to work. Here's the build I'm trying out now, for which you still get to choose two PVE skills: [build prof=W/N cur=3 str=12+1 swo=12+1+1][Warrior's Endurance][Asuran Scan][Enfeeble][Distracting Blow][Wild Blow][Power Attack][Optional][Optional][/build] Usage: Replace the Sorrow Discord's minions with Succor and manually maintain on self. Before battle cast WE, wait until recharged, go in with Asura Scan and Enfeeble, ctrl-space, spam other skills to suit. --evilsofa 15:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Still doesn't feel right, because AP would recharge your energy without having to melee attack something; if the necros kill the target before you get to it, you end up with a low energy situation again, which is still the warrior's big problem with Discordway. I might try experimenting with Assassin's Promise, Sneak Attack and EVAS to see using SA instead of YMLaD! helps, but I just don't know if I can make this work. --evilsofa 22:30, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, nuts, Sneak Attack is a melee attack; the beauty of Discordway is being able to do it from casting distance. I'm effectively looking for a skill usable by a W/A that can be cast from a distance, costs 5 energy, and inflicts a condition - and as far as I can tell, there is none!  I pronounce the build not effective on Warriors - go with Sabway instead. --evilsofa 22:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * or paraway. &mdash; μαφλεσ 00:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you mean Racway. Racway is based on maintaining Agressive Refrain - which costs 25 energy.  That is an absolute showstopper for warriors. --evilsofa 18:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * no, I mean take any decent warrior bar, then bring two paragon heroes to abuse shouts and chants. a warrior hero also, to bring 'watch yourself' at a moderate spec if you like. 22:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I have now found a very interesting team build that does something like that, except with a minion bomber for the third hero, which might be better than Sabway. --evilsofa 17:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Runes
I have the runes for triple necro and I don't really want to change them. Will this build still work good with those runes?--Vgfanatic2 00:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * yup -- -Ch  ao  s-   09:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Work - yes. Work well - no. --Anonimous. D: 11:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * i never rune heroes and i never have any problems =s <font color="#000000">Infested <font color="#CD0000">Hydralisk  16:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

User:Life Guardian/Discord
Discuss.  Life  20:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yours is better. But both need more conditions IMO.  Weaken Armor is all I'm asking for.  [[Image:Benjammn311Sig5.png]] 21:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably true. I'm used to applying the conditions myself so I've never really noticed. Weaken armor for barbs on olias would probably work well.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 22:06, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Inferior. On the player, take MoP and barbs.  Yours has far less healing/defense and too much useless crap (parasitic bond, etc.)  --75.95.209.103 17:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * lolurbaed. Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Your version is really bad, no reason at all for so many hexes, take some on the caller and 1 or 2 on a nec hero and thats enough. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Green">Watch me work it 12:25, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "lolurbaed"? Your build is shit, to be frank.  Listen to what the person above me said.  --Zaney 02:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * wtf r u guys talking about hexes, ur both bad >.> and shambling horrors ownz :D. suffering is meh tho. you have to being another healer/support if ur gonna have to run that in comparison to putting healers on 2 necros--Relyk 02:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok,disabling and microing barbs+MoP is gud. I should probably try to fit in shamblings, but w/e. It does fine in 4 man. I always bring support/healer hench in 6/8 man. You can get kills with just you and your heroes, so using henchies for anything but keeping you alive is kind of a waste.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ...you take MoP on the AP because it is 20s recharge. Isnt that obv.?--75.95.209.103 18:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you need MoP more than once every 20 seconds you're doing it wrong. Shit should die before the AP has time to cast MoP anyways.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I would use this on my mesmer.
Why Arcane Echo? well you could echo Assassin's Promise for when it would fail, and if not echoing Assassin's Promise you could echo Cry of Pain or Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support or any other spell. So why isn't Arcane Echo between the optional skills? Qaletaqa 13:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Assassin's promise wouldn't trigger damage from CoP, you need a mes hex--Goldenstar 13:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty much that build already exists here Athrun Feya 14:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Goldenstar that's why there are optional slots. @Athrun Feya Ahh didn't see that one.Qaletaqa 14:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Healing
Would the three necros be enough healing for HM? or do you need to take another monk?82.72.233.33 11:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Depends on the area really, but another monk can never hurt. You usually got enough damage to kill anyway. Godbox  12:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When I play in HM I mostly take the next four henchman with me, Herta, Mhenlo, Lina and Zho (or something similar). Since I have enough dmg as it is I always take the extra monks with me just to be sure, and it really depends on wich area and the type of mobs you have to fight, just like Godbox said. Qaletaqa 06:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * should only take one other monk max, otherwise u just slow urself down--Relyk 07:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I really have to disagree, ALWAYS take 2 monks, the damage of yourself and the 3 heroes means you score kills every 2 seconds anyways, you dont need more(besides most henchies have mediocre damage anyway)while more heal is certainly needed in most of the more nasty missions/areas on hardmode. This is even more true now that PwK recharges 10sec longer which means less party heal spam from your heroes!

SoLS
the necros are almost every time on ~ 5 to 7 energie even with fast killing...so why not bring SoLS?...and is it really necessesary to bring 2 Shambling Horror? when i go discordway they have maybe 2 minions over time...and the bone minion necro is not able to get to 9 minions (in corpse heavy areas)...in corpse less areas maybe the first and second nec gets 0-1 minions and the third 2-4. Illoyon 09:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can keep up 10-20 minions, then there shouldn't be any need for SOLS. Tbh, that's 99% of VQs.  But if you're doing an area that doesn't have corpses or you have a hard time keeping up minions, it might be worthwhile.  But tbh, d-way probably isn't your best option for those cases.  --75.95.209.103 18:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This section brings up the achilles heel of this discord team, in my opinion. It has NEVER been an effective tactic to bring 3 heroes with minion skills, and the reason why is that heroes just dont have the AI to share minions. What happens is the necros target the freshest or nearest corpse, usually the freshest. Once that is established, the necros dont have the AI to recognize when another necro is casting a minion spell, so they cast on the same corpse as well. The first necro to cast will gain the minion, while any other necro casting a minion skill will fail in the cast. Thats a valuable 15 energy and 1-3 seconds gone with nothing to show for it. With all necros having the chance for this to occur, this becomes a significant problem, if not avoided beforehand. Sure, its possible in some corpse-heavy areas like bogroot's or vizunah square to have 2 or 3 dedicated mm's, but these sort of places are few and far between. And to adress the above comments, if you depend on minions as your primary fuel for discord, you're going to fail hard. Minions should be a body-blocking frontliner/death nova fodder primarily, and soul reaping battery secondarily; If the corpses are few, you have to have the capability to make enough kills to feul soul reaping with just you and your necros, or you're screwed. Not to mention there are quite a few places where corpses are few. So give SoLS more credit, and definitely add it if you're low on energy.--74.129.227.63 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

for warrior
[build prof=W/A str=12+1+1 dag=12][Golden Fox Strike][Golden Fang Strike][Death Blossom][Warrior's Endurance]["Save Yourselves!" (Luxon)]["For Great Justice!"][Asuran Scan][Resurrection Signet][/build]

y/n?--Simpson man 19:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless you plan on keeping yourself enchanted by forcing the N/Mo to enchant you constantly (and probably cause them to waste energy because they were busy casting something else), no way. Even if you did, the hex/condition application is far slower than using AP and YMLaD, you'd probably have energy problems, you can't knock enemies down, you can't have FGJ up for very long, etc. Capcom 22:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Small complaints.... This is a suitable option for warrior (if you feel like using daggers). Theres damage, deep wound, no pressing need for a knockdown (though one can be added), and the condition+hex gets up in 2 attacks. Not many mobs block, but Golden Fang can be solved with a necro that carries withering aura. Well damn, thats another condition right there.--74.129.227.63 08:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

[build prof=W/A axe=12+1+1 str=12+1][warrior's endurance][dismember][power attack][cyclone axe][Asuran Scan][you move like a][flail][Resurrection Signet][/build] --Relyk 03:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Technobabble
Has allready been suggested someone else above, but no one replied so I'm going to ask it here: would it be viable to use Technobabble instead of "YMLaD", or am I missing something important? Reason I'm asking is because I allways play with heroes and henchies lately and as such do not have a reliable means of daze (well maybe in EoTN, but if it's reliable then is still another question). While I feel I could really use that condition for some fire elemental groups... (ZBounties Korshek the Immolated and Borrguus Blisterbark where such a pain in the butt, it wasn't even funny... I know Technobabble isn't directly appliable on them, but at least, I would be able to deal with his sidekicks more easily... I guess.--Fuu no Ki 11:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Besides Technoabble is AoE en Daze Causing if targeting a none boss and only has 1 sec casting time instead of none of YMLD. But the duration of the daze is pretty short compared to YMLD so that might be a problem. <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 11:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Does a silencing weapon mod increase the daze length? Selket Shadowdancer 13:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Warrior skills
since warriors actually have alot energy en regen WE ftw. <font color="Orange">Fox007  19:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

My Curses
Necro always, and I mean Always get in energy troubles.. I don't think 9 Soul Reaping cuts it. been working around with variants but it's not rly working..213.126.247.227 13:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're doing something wrong. My blue bars are never under half. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Energy should be low, but not at 0. The curses should hover at around 10-15 at all times.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If your energy drops to 0, then you're too slow at killing foes or you're using energy-expensive skills. The Assassin' Promise/"You Move Like a Dwarf" combo is enough to kill any enemy. --Othrandor Evel 13:47, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Three MMs
lolfightingovercorpsesandwastingtime.  Life  17:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Then tell us what bars you would recommend ;) Brandnew 17:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PvX likes dual healers.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dual Healer + Dual Hardres. YOU ARE SUCH A PUSSY. Brandnew 18:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My real build is in a link a few sections up.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:07, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PwML is terrible. however, just bringing one Minions is good. no reason to bring other shit. needs more putrid bile, though. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PwML? And you can drop aegis or something.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Feast of the Dead tbh. --Mafaraxas 18:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PwLM*. Also, why would you drop aegis? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  19:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Where do you see that? Andbecause iirc, Herta has wards.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 19:07, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Aegis is still hawt since terrible heroes kite outside wards. also, PwLM was on your original bars you said to look up at. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  19:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ...No it wasn't?  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ...No it wasn't?  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * lolspeak your ass.
 * I use two or three separate minion spells on my necros, its advantageous as long as over two corpses are availible which normally happens as discord has strong aoe damage contrary to popular belief. It takes you roughly same time to exploit all of them as it would take to exploit one if you had sole MM so you have more necros availible to spike with discord, faster.
 * If you use bloodstained insigs on shambling necros outcome of "corpse fight" is going to be obvious, long recharge shamblings have priority over minions when they are availible and minions fill the gap when they asre not so you end up with good balance between high and low level minions. --Anonimous. D: 14:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're really autistic, aren't you? Write something readable for once and I'll consider you're argument. Try here if you need help. From what I did understand, again - if your minions are actually making a difference beyond being body-blocks, you're doing it wrong. Maybe bring Shambling + Minions on one MM. Beyond that, it's just overkill. There's no reason when running Discordway that you should ever need more. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  14:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * i Heared that gRammar, cans important; be it necessary to right and red: perhaps gra5tuatin 7 gradez wud(help) [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:58, 15 June 2009
 * KJ deals with kids who have issues all the time. I'm sure if you need help, he'd be more than willing. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A masters in Adolescent Development didn't exactly prepare me to help people like him. However, my wife is a Psychologist and works with teens who have sub-normal IQs all the time. I'll let her know she's needed. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:40, 15 June 2009
 * Hey now. He might not be retarded - maybe he's just dyxlescic or had a really bad morning. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sub-normal isn't retarded. Retarded typically means you're unable to function. Sub-normal people can function, they're just really annoying and stupid. They have like a 80ish IQ, and can't maintain higher brain functions. Inbreeding causes it a lot. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:59, 15 June 2009
 * That post shows youre the only autist here or so much on drugs you cant get a simple game explanation. --Anonimous. D: 16:57, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

lolspeak your ass. I use two or three separate minion spells on my necros, its advantageous as long as over two corpses are availible which normally happens as discord has strong aoe damage contrary to popular belief. It takes you roughly same time to exploit all of them as it would take to exploit one if you had sole MM so you have more necros availible to spike with discord, faster. If you use bloodstained insigs on shambling necros outcome of "corpse fight" is going to be obvious, long recharge shamblings have priority over minions when they are availible and minions fill the gap when they asre not so you end up with good balance between high and low level minions. --Anonimous. D: 14:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Please clarify which part of that is supposed to be comprehendible to those of us who aren't inbred autists? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Is any of you not an inbred autist? --Anonimous. D: 17:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Are any of you not inbred autists?* See how much better that sounds? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wrote a different thing first, forgot to change. You people really tick me off... --Anonimous. D: 17:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Use proper (or even close to proper) English, and we'll work on in-house relations. Until then, I really can't be bothered. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

"lolspeak your ass"please dechipher this. 17:37, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see that now being a grammar nazi is a new trend on PvX, lol. Anyway, it is very simple, having one/two other heroes with minion spells saves you time exploiting corpses. Do you understand now? --Anonimous. D: 17:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See Life's comment. --Anonimous. D: 17:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's much more intelligible. :> And.. I could see taking a hero with minions/shambling and one with just shambling. build big minion walls, etc. I've just always aimed for bigger utility skills over minions myself. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see...some people do that, but the problem I had running a single minion bomber was that it spent more time and energy raising minions than casting Discord so as a result my "spikes" were weaker. Often, I also had to wait for it to finish raising minions after the battle was over. --Anonimous. D: 18:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I never wait. O_o even if it means i have no minions. but, like i said, i bring more utility skills so it more or less makes up for it. i'll try it with extra minion skills when i have a chance. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I generally do the same thing as Danny when it comes to raising minions. If my MM just used minions and there's still corpses around, i'll just keep moving. It doesn't really matter because you have to wait for your MM at the next fight anyways. A single minion bomber has always worked for me because microing discord cancels all other actions. I bound 1, 2, and 3 on the numpad to hero X use skill 1. I've just incorporated that into my caller chain.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 23:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Cool hexer variant
I've been using this one, works pretty well:

Against most of the mobs, use and, followed by  while the foe is knocked down and  to deal some more damage. Otherwise, you can use instead of Fetid Ground and Signet of Toxic Shock. When you fight a boss, use both methods to finish him quickly - first Fetid Ground + Signet of Toxic Shock. Of course, in each of the situations listed above, when foe's health is under 50% use and if you're low on energy use.

If you're facing a mob with hex removal skills, cast and. When the target foe removes the hex, cast. Another way is to cast Assassin's Promise and "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and, while the enemy is knocked down, cover AP with Mark of Pain.

This build fits any situation and can easily counter hex removal. --Othrandor Evel 17:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Dont see what you find so good about it, its practically an AP Evas nuker but much worse. --Anonimous. D: 18:05, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * An AP EVAS nuker....with no EVAS.... [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:06, 16 June 2009
 * Well said. --Anonimous. D: 18:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Try it yourself. If you use it wisely, it's good. It helps killing foes, since sometimes Discord doesn't kill 'em immediately.
 * lol dont ask us to try out shit build. ^^ --Anonimous. D: 23:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Try it, before judging. --Othrandor Evel 08:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * EVAS is used because it creates another minion-esque thing to soak up damage, and it also knocklocks whatever you're targeting. Not to mention the damage isn't bad.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 23:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Effective vs. Multi-healer Groups?
Would this build work well against groups with multi-healers? I've been thinking about taking this build to Lornar's Pass, and there's one group with two Dolyak Masters and a Dolyak Rider. Will I be able to take down a healer faster than the other two can regen him? I was thinking of replacing the Assassin Support with Technobabble for the daze. Thoughts?
 * Just take some enchant removal to remove Mark of Preotection and you should be fine. 75.92.46.118 02:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I heard Discord's recharge was high. Spike 3-2-1 micro-ing takes down pretty much any single target ;o [[Image:Goodnight LA mcsig.png]] <font face="Verdana" color="maroon" size="1">02:30, 17 June 2009
 * Very yes, thats the main reason people run it over Sabway. --Anonimous. D: 11:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Take this garbage to Slavers' and see if it works. Plenty of healing dwarves in there to test on.--74.129.227.63 08:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I used a variant of this to do Ice Caves of Sorrow+Bonus on HM (where one group has 4 healers in) aswell as FoW. Just take Rip Enchantment on your Necros and micro it. Well of the Profane can be useful too against multiple Doylaks. Selket Shadowdancer 09:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * not really the same thing as slavers' HM tbh. --Mafaraxas 13:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing works effectively in Slaver's, tbh. Same with Vlox. Only thing you can really do is load up on ranger spirits and not rely on enchants. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  16:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lies. --Mafaraxas 18:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We should form up honourable balanced and face off against HM monsters! ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe the original question Marafaxas was with regards to multiple healing in Southern Shiverpeaks, not Eye of the North. With regards to Slavers I have never tried this there yet and have no idea of how it would work there. Selket Shadowdancer 07:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

For warrior/paragon
Drop the Sorrow Discord's minions for Succor TedTheFarmer 22:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A very good tactic, since you don't really need a third minion caster. I did try this seriously.  It may make this build work for a Paragon, but a Warrior's base energy is still much too low, which is by far the more serious problem.

Completion
Has the build itself as it appears on the build page, after this whopping huge discussion been made better for it? I mean, has it reached it's optimum strength in terms of skill choices and effectiveness? Is it as good as it will get for the moment? I recognise due to individual layer variation on choices will make slightly different optimum configurations but if someone was to just take the build off the page and use it, would it be at it's best? Saul Lachance 16:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also there's no suggestion on what henchmen to use if you were H/H-ing it. Saul Lachance 16:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Best" is entirely subjective. There's disputes about how many minion skills you need, whether or not SoLS is worth a skill slot, etc. People play differently, and if you can't functionally modify a build to fit where you're running it/what you're running it with, you need to not run this. As for henchmen, take the best ones. Henchmen ability is non-subjective. There's guides to henchmen selection somewhere, probably on Guru. Perhaps I'll write up a guide later. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)