Archive talk:P/Me Cruel Spear Paragon

An addition to varriant?:

Taking 'They're On Fire!' instead of... dnuw, when in a team that causes allot of burning appart from Anthemn of Flame.
 * GL with that, impossible to manage energy then as well as that you won't have burning around their team. Useless. Unexist 22:17, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Checked and Reviewed
For Viability. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 16:35, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

how does this manage energy? - Skakid9090 05:10, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

Shitty build shitty damage. Paragons need support elites not Cruel Spear.
 * Srsly? all it needs is GFTE and its warrior-like DPS. - Skakid9090 º_o 10:09, 30 June 2007 (CEST)

Skakid--GFTE with 12 leadership will supply energy when used, up to 6 energy for each use
 * anon - that's why I added the skill. - Skakid9090 23:48, 19 July 2007 (CEST)

11 leadership is useless. - Unexist  04:53, 26 January 2008 (EST)

My variant
I replace Barbed Spear and Spear of Lightning with Harrier's Toss and Vicious Attack.

When spamming of GFTE, the other adrenaline skills charge much slower, espesially for Cruel Spear. At this moment Vicious Attack with GFTE can make Deep Wound easier, in spite of whether the target is moving or not. Cruel Spear is also good and required here, too. Besides its conditional Deep Wound, +25 dmg. is a good attack. And, it applies Deep Wound even Blocked, this helps your teammates to finish those blocking physical attacks.

In my opinion, Harrier's Toss is better than Spear of Lightning due to several reasons in PVP especially in RA. Spear of Lightning is a pure damage plus attack, while Harrier's Toss can be used to spike. The potential dmg. of Harrier's Toss is very high among the bonus dmg. attacks, which is armor ignoring dmg. Both skills are not suitable for spamming, so Harrier's Toss's 10 energy cost is not a big problem.

Now there are only to adrenaline skills, so we can spam GFTE for a net energy gain to supplement the energy based skills, also for more dmg. and Vicious Attacks's Deep Wound. Finish them off with Cruel Spear and Harrier's Toss.

PVEable
I find this build works quite well in PVE situation a lot of times by switching out Remedy Signet for Spear of Fury and Resurrection Signet to Signet of Return. User:Kullwarrior

Assigning a Category
This build was in the category Good. There is only one vote on the rating page. You must assign a category once it gets at least 5 votes. And the category good is for 3.5-4.49. This would be in the category Great if it only requires 1 vote, but it doesn't. I changed it to testing.-- Victoryisyours 18:59, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Pretty sure that's because all the current favored builds from the old wiki were just thrown into the "Good" category. They stay there until votes force them down to ok/trash, or up to great.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 03:07, 21 August 2007 (CEST)

Bar
The bar is wrong. Barbed Spear should be "Watch Yourself!" and Res Sig should be Signet of Return. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 05:01, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Agreed. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   05:13, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * why the hell do you want barbed spear? its to weak, if you're going to take out watch you'reself, take a mesmer secondary and take power spike.


 * Bleeding is still 3 degen, for 3 adr and barbed prefix you can maintain it pretty much chars. Tho, I agree with that watch yourself is better. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  04:54, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Vicious Attack, GFTE, Mirror and/or Power Spike should be on the main bar. --Tab  Moo  09:41, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Why the fuck is mending in there? --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 10:08, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Because permenant regen on the party for an investment of 40e at the start of the match is good. It's more of an optional though.

With Mending/Power Spike/Harrier's should be the main bar. --Tab  Moo  10:14, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Spear of Lightning imo. Just as powerful as harrier's. --Dark0805 ( Rant /Contributions ) 10:19, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Optional should only be an attack skill if you want to spike better, in which case Harrier's is the way to go. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  10:35, 11 February 2008 (EST)


 * Why Cruel and Vicious? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  16:00, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Vicious is same +damage as Lightning, dual DW is alot more pressure, and pressure is the reason to take a Cruel para. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  16:09, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * You're forgetting about the 20% armor penetration. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  16:20, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Meh, I am. Still, the aim of a Cruel Spear bar is pressure, and dual DW is invaluable for that. If you want, I can dig up a guru thread on it for you. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  16:24, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * I've seen SoL run more often then not, but I'll take your word =P &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  16:24, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * . DF are the only people who run Cruel Spear bars that I can think of. Everyone else runs /W SoR, in which case you'd be dumb to take Vicious. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  16:26, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * I started that thread! <3 --Dark0805 ( Rant /<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions ) 16:39, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Who runs a paragon with no party support? &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  19:24, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Idk but I thought even [DF] runs Mending Refrain on their para... no party support is fail IMO. Smooths 20:25, 12 February 2008 (EST)


 * Rving since no disagreement for a day. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  20:27, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Where are you getting the attributes for Mending? -<font color="Black">Shen 20:35, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Nevermind, I just found out it got buffed. -<font color="Black">Shen 20:36, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Bar2
Fix it. It's broken. I suggest this:

No gimping of attributes. Discuss. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 21:57, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * See variants much? It's run with both P/Me for extra ints and P/W for extra support. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  22:01, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Inconsistent with every other build we have vetted (C+P templates with max 1 optional). If you have variants, you can afford to fill up your 8 slots in the main bar. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:03, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Then make a P/W and P/Me. &mdash;  Skadiddly [슴Mc슴] Diddles  22:05, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Sounds good. I propose the one here and the [DF] P/Me. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:05, 12 February 2008 (EST)

WHOA!
Mending with no motiv attribute, some1 fix pl0x himynameisbobbyjoe 22:13, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Working on that. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:34, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Nerf to Mending Refrain
Is it really that big of a deal overall? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the build still works, just that it loses some utility --Kalas Silvern 03:06, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
 * 5 seconds isn't that much. God  box   15:15, 23 March 2008 (EDT)


 * FAIIIL! --/\/\/\[[Image:SuperIgorsig.jpg|19px]]<font color="Purple"><tt>И</tt>г<tt>о</tt>р<tt>ь</tt> 13:39, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
 * No U! God  box   13:49, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Skill choices
Ok IMO Cruel spear is a better choice then Vicious Attack. Better dmg & much easier deep wound as the enemy has to stop moving many times ( attack skills / casting).

Spear of lightning is a better choice then Harrier's toss as against a casting ele or any other caster i like to have armor penetration. And it has better energy cost & is more spammable.

A paragon without a single point in leadership can be effective. My current RA build has only 2 skills that need energy ( SoL & "For Great Justice"). Healing signet provides very nice self heal if you have 12 tactics & signet of agression will keep the adrenalin flowing with FGJ or anthem of flame if you have one of them in your build.

Barbed Spear is a must for a spear spike paragon as it's an easily applied cover condition for your deep wound, burning & ( optional) poison.

Agressive refrain is a bad choice for a paragon. They have 80AL it's not worth it to reduce that ammoutnt to 60AL ( caster's armor) for the sake of attack speed. A FGJ signet of agrresion combo provides much more adrenaline & spam of addrenal skills ( 1 hit plus signet charges your blazing spear, when blazing hits you can follow with Cruel spear , then spear of lightning & repeat the combo. It would be good if you manage to fit enduring harmony in a build so that FGJ can be maintained for longer.

All in all you can do everything but you won't be best at anything or you can focuse on a single purpose & do it great ( 16 spear mastery allows you to fight axe warriors on equal terms).

&mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 77.70.60.92 (contribs) 18:14, 12 April 2008.

Everything this person just said don't listen to it.

You would be a 76 ranged target as you forgot the shield.

Signet of Aggression is bad, spend more time chucking spears then casting signets, this will build up plenty of adrenaline.(75.134.131.172 18:33, 8 November 2008 (EST))

The attributes
wtf?--Relyk 00:22, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
 * spear=10+2
 * leadership=10+1+1
 * command=7+1
 * Seeing as the base of the build includes no Command skills, but has one Motivation, I'd assume that's why there's 8 in Motivation. Of course, I'm sure you could create a Command Variant easily, just take out Mending Refrain and add "Go For The Eyes!" or something. ScythXIII 06:07, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Forgot to sign... ._. ScythXIII 06:07, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Tactics skills
Is is even worth the trouble of using "WY!" and "SU!" after the nerfs? -Mike 19:09, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

Bar again
Needs to be

which is the most common one being run ATM. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 19:12, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Agree BCTurk 01:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Harrier's should be replaced since it now is just plain inferior to other spear attacks. God  box    11:15, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Agree, anti-kd shout ftw! Also Mending Refrain, ehm i dont think so oO ¨ Massive  08:14, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Equipment
Is Vampiric Mod really the best choice here considering the low base speed of the spear and only a +3 mod?
 * With Aggressive Refrain, you attack about every second, so it should be fine. A Zealous Spear swap might be useful after setting up the refrains to regain the energy lost. ــмıкε  нaшк  09:27, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

Overpowered
This build is just too overpowered, it's time for anet to nerf those paragons again, they have too many great skills is addition to other professions. 84.27.170.207 13:01, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I sure hope that's sarcasm. If you test a Paragon build like this against the Master of Damage, the best DPS you'll get is probably 40, and it'll probably take 12-15 seconds for a kill (the "Death occurred after -- seconds" message.) The only way for Paragons to be good at DPS is if they take a Conjure or are buffed with Orders. If anything, Paragons need more buffs, because they try to balance us by reducing our support and just barely upping our offense (Barbed Spear and Blazing Spear buffs, mostly.) ــмıкε  нaшк  13:08, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I hope thats sarcasm...cause this build is underpowered IMO, I dunno why its rated great. I say it deserves a "Good" Muffin 12:36, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That was incredibly stupid. Cruel Spear is awesome damage and DW. I perfer the Command version > this, but it works great regardless (it's Cruel fucking Spear). --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 12:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
 * It should be in great no matter what because paragons don't have better options. Brandnew.  12:39, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That doesn't mean you should play a Paragon over another profession, sadly. I think we need moar buffs. ــмıкε  нaшк  12:43, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
 * You should, paragons are fucking awesome support that can dish out a nasty DPS while at it. Brandnew.  12:44, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

P/W
Watch Yourself and Shields Upp isnt used at ALL - Nerf bat took a homerun on them :/ add Vicious, Gfte, Brace Yourselves versioN! ¨ Massive  08:16, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Did you not read Rapta's comment at all? --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 08:34, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Where? Massive  [[Image:Image-Massive Sig.jpg|19px]] 08:48, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
 * here --[[Image:GoD Wario Sig.PNG]]<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 08:56, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Aggressive Refrain?
Thats a lot of energy waste. Is there a variant for that crap?--66.50.161.64 13:29, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You put it up once in an entire match. Then you use Anthem of Flame and GFTE on recharge, which you should anyway. --<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  13:32, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
 * lol "that crap". Though it's not as good as it once was, it's still fucking awesome.  — şąɀɀƴ  ƿooɧ [[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]] 13:39, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Ranger Variant
I was ABing with this and found a variant: [build prof=P/R name="P/R Resilience AB" wil=9 spe=11+1 comma=4 lea=10+1+1][Melandru's Resilience][Spear of Lightning][Wild Throw]["Go for the Eyes!"][Anthem of Weariness]["Make Haste!"][Aggressive Refrain][Apply Poison][/build] Bad: Damage is down overall, countered by stance removal. Good: Self healing, more energy, spams poison. Xira Arien 13:12, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Obaby, Apply with Mels resilience and Aggressive, awesome synergy, needs more wearying throw :> --<font color="Black">F rosty 13:19, 21 November 2008 (EST)


 * Builds like these are why PvX is laughed at. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 14:15, 21 November 2008 (EST)

archive?
not because of nerfs but because its fallen out of meta, in all arenas.  <font color="#444">• Saint <small style="font-family:Verdana;"><font color="#444">TALK 13:38, 21 November 2008 (EST) 
 * I wouldn't say Archive, in single paragon teams Cruel Spear ownz pretty hard. --<font color="Black">F rosty 13:41, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * In HA many single para teams run 1 DA or AoG or something like that. In GvG people run rangers over these nowadays.  <font color="#444">• Saint <small style="font-family:Verdana;"><font color="#444">TALK 13:43, 21 November 2008 (EST) 
 * I was more talking about GvG and it is still used the occasionally, I wouldn't say archive yet, since except DA fags its the best para build for GvG. --<font color="Black">F rosty 13:45, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Im not saying tis bad im saying no one runs this o.O  <font color="#444">• Saint <small style="font-family:Verdana;"><font color="#444">TALK 13:49, 21 November 2008 (EST) 
 * Well I wouldn't say archive because it is still good but obviously the current lolrangerturret meta means these are a lot less powerful. And in the 3 war 1 para 1 ranger team they use CS. --<font color="Black">F rosty 13:50, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Removed HA tag coz noone is that retarded to use this build in HA when u got DA and stuff. ~Dronte~ 12:12, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Spear of Redemption
It could be used to counter blindness, it isn't mentioned anywhere not even variants.24.56.247.13 03:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree, but you need the adrenaline already built up to use it to counter blindness.--68.41.239.164 12:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Soldier's Fury
Is better than this in every situation I can think of atm, could probably do with an archive. --Crow 19:32, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Then archive or WELL tag it. If there's any discussion to be had, that will prompt it. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:18, 23 November 2009