Archive talk:D/W AoM Dervish

Checked and Reviewed
For Viability. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 06:59, 7 June 2007 (CEST)

Update
Will do. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 02:44, 13 July 2007 (CEST)

Done. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 04:41, 13 July 2007 (CEST)

Superior Rune?
Since you have an extra 100 health and inflicting DW, wouldn't just be better to use a sup rune of scythe mastery?--Relyk 23:37, 20 July 2007 (CEST)

Not worth it. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 18:21, 21 July 2007 (CEST)

Weakness reduces all attributes by 1 too. Don't like builds that have no possibility to get rid of it. --Nifty 13:14, 6 August 2007 (CEST)
 * you do realize that he is using AVATAR OF MELANDRU he cant get conditions.. i dont have a dervish so i cant do this build nor necessary skills for it and lazy do get em :) but i like the build looks rather effective--Iwan13 21:22, 10 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Since it's a PvP build and not a PvE one where you can use the sunspear skill Eternal Aura to maintain your avatar, it will run out too (after 62 secs of 120 recharge time). So half the time you're affected by conditions. And if any sup. rune, then Mystic... since it builds around the avatar for getting no conditions. But then again, using sup. runes in PvP can backfire, esp. as frontchar. --Nifty 13:12, 9 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Reducing attributes by 1 isn't a problem unless you've set up your stats to be just past a break point (which I don't believe they are, here). It's seriously not worth the -75 hp - remember that dervs only have 70 armor and are frontliners. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 00:13, 7 August 2007 (CEST)

Insignias, extra runes
... -- Armond Warblade 21:01, 14 August 2007 (CEST)

Question
Was there any nerf for AoM dervish ? I'm asking because i don't see top guilds using it now.


 * I didn't notice a direct nerf, but given the huge buffs to other things (and the general skill rebalancing), guilds are probably fiddling with outdated bars to see if they work. Whether or not they find a replacement for the melandru derv, it works just as well as it used to - it just might be outclassed by some new combo. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 15:49, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * BSurge Nerf and Blurred vision Buff/Change, whatever you like to call it. Asdfg 16:16, 20 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Blurred vision is typicaly the same on every frontliner, and bsurge nerf isn't a nerf, since people remove it in 3 seconds anyway. Wearying did get nerfed btw. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]Unexist  17:57, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * Why run mel when you can run a critsin is what everyone thinks. Bsurge is also gone, and since mel does nothing against ice eles then y run it. Emanagement and utility on a mel bar is also pretty bad, id only really run a mel derv in a dervspike build and now even dervspikes have better derv bars for that reason.I Heal If U Shutup 23:40, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

how do u self heal here?
is it needed, or is it just not there? --Stenzi 05:59, 28 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Not needed. This is a flagstand char, so you should usually have monks and a Para or Warder around. This character is fairly resilient, with its extra health and condition immunity, but any damage that you do take is easily healed up by your monks. You'll notice that many flagstand characters don't have self-heals, while gankers will. Imo, most of those tags are wrong (especially, RA, where you would want a self heal. I see where you're coming from.) - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] Krowman   08:10, 28 August 2007 (CEST)

Without a Healer, you don't win in RA regardless. If it works in RA, it works in TA. AB/CM echo mending works there. HA, can be obviously run due to R12 AoA in [GANK]. GvG...obvious. Did I forget anything? Readem (talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 08:50, 28 August 2007 (CEST)

I see so then it really shouldn't be an RA build because u don't always get a healer --Stenzi 02:23, 29 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Were talking about glad points here... - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  17:28, 31 October 2007 (CET)

Better speed buff!
Clearly Rush is a very limited skill for this build, why not just use Pious Haste for a constant 33% speed boost? The only enchantment in this build is HoF, so skill chaining without having any negative setback would make Pious Haste (with 5 energy and 5 sec recharge) a very efficient and powerful speed buff! Honestly, I must not be the only one thinking so...
 * Pious Haste kills your HoF, though. Rush is kinda ownzz, especially since you can use it every time it's charged at 0 cost. Also, AoM is somewhat energy-heavy, so an adrenaline speed boost helps to relieve that. --<font color="Black">Edru viransu //<font color="Red">QQ about me /sysop 00:25, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * It (Rush) needs 4 strike of adrenaline, so unless you are taking damage or dealing it, you can't really use it constantly (unlike Pious Haste), and then again, if you are using a zealous scythe you shouldnt have any problem. I was using switching between a 20/20 sundering and a zealous scythe and haven't had any energy problems. Rush is a very good speed buff, works well in this build, but Pious Haste can be a different (fun?) alternative. I also added Healing Signet in my build, it fits perfectly, out of battle heals ftw? hehehe


 * ... <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 04:33, 5 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Go /Mo and bring mending... because you're never taking or dealing damage on a derv... Seriously, in PvP, the situations you've described are VERY few and VERY far between. And even when you find one, so what if you can run a bit faster? As for healing, that's what natural regen and monks are for. Waste of a skill slot. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 22:24, 5 September 2007 (CEST)


 * For GvG, on a flagstand character, rush is almost always up, can be used in the heat of battle, and doesn't cost energy. Big win.  For ganking with this build (seriously not recommended) pious haste would be better (or sprint).  However, in RA/TA, Pious Haste works great (arguably better) as long as your team has no enchant-based monk. CoonerTheRed 22:52, 5 September 2007 (CEST)


 * I don't see how Rush would beat Pious Haste in AB, I'm focusing on AB, because that's where this build is quite deadly.
 * This build is good...well almost anywhere. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 00:52, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * It doesn't beat Pious Haste in AB especially, where you need the speed boost away from combat more than during combat. CoonerTheRed 16:46, 24 October 2007 (CEST)


 * It'd be fun to get burning speed in this build, since you wouldn't suffer burning, although that would kill your energy. --Link4all 00:34, 12 November 2007 (CET)

PvE Viability?
Condition denial and the powerful skills here make me think that such a build has the potential to be extremely effective in PvE. Has anyone tried this? And if so, what adjustments, if any, would need to be made in order to make this build work in that environment?Madriel222 07:56, 10 September 2007 (CEST)

I run this:

<font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 07:58, 10 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I'm a tad late on this, but why pious haste in pve? :/ –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 06:39, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * Er, to run assume. Terror 10:19, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * AoB is still better @ PvE. The armor boost is so nice. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  17:30, 31 October 2007 (CET)
 * AoB is trash. Armour buff + run buff does not a good elite equal. &mdash; Skuld 19:25, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * He's right; if you need the armor buff, just roll a war. - [[Image:Kowal.jpg|15px]] <font face="dauphin" color="maroon">Krowman   20:23, 7 November 2007 (CET)
 * Thanks for the tip yoda — Skakid9090 21:43, 8 November 2007 (CET)

Answer to Self Heal
If there ever comes an occasion where you need to lick your wounds, I recommend taking Meditation, although you'll have to make sure you have no enchantments left on you. This suggestion is for AB since resurrection signet isn't needed. Just my two cents. Government Flu 22:26, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Doesnt meditation require that you loose an enchant? or is that just for energy? i cant remember.--Shadowsin 06:15, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * You would have a few monks and support characters around so it is not needed. Also, Meditation makes you lose one enchantment and gives you some energy and gives you health if you don't have an enchantment. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]<font color="Red">Viet •  t  /  c  06:19, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * I fail.--Shadowsin 06:23, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * Take mending imo. Don't forget echo btw! - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  17:31, 31 October 2007 (CET)

Use Natural Healing. Then you can use Guiding Hands and Harrier's Haste ^^ &mdash; Skuld 12:38, 8 December 2007 (CET)

Needs energy!
Doesn't AoM draw your energy death right away, because cost is high: 25 energy... Radiants to all armors might help you out even a bit.

A few seconds of auto-attacking/conservative attack spam and maybe a few outside enchantments, and you should do fine. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Brown">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 13:34, 5 November 2007 (CET)

I personally run a Zealous Scythe of Enchanting, you have constant energy, and the of Enchanting mod is even more energy-managment whit HoF. After having 10 energy for HoF, energy is gained quite fast. Radiant Insignias are not needed: if you need energy for AoM, just switch to high-energy set. Sir Bertrand 20:10, 6 December 2007 (CET)
 * Scythes w/o constant IAS(when heart of fury is down) against blocks(guardian spam, aegis, ward against melee) doesn't give you more energy. Weapon switching is the key. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  09:55, 8 December 2007 (CET)

Add Thrill of Victory? cause since AoM gives +100 health, you'll prob have more health than target, so with 12+1+1 scythe, 10+1 mysticism, and 8 tactics, u can do +31 damage. I Am Jebus 15:52, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * Chilling Victory is better, as it's linked to scythe and does more damage. It should be in the variants. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 23:21, 2 February 2008 (EST)
 * Victorious Sweep – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 01:41, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Would Pious Fury be good instead of Heart of Fury? You only really need an IAS during your spike anyway, no?  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ  08:22, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Also allows you to use Pious Haste without a very big drawback.  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 08:26, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Autoattack pressure. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 12:36, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Still rather use Rush over Haste for a free run and for how easy adren is to gain. (Mr Pink57 04:42, 27 May 2008 (EDT))
 * Distracting strike is better than eremities probably, its faster and inturupts which is handy for those guardians and aegises. The small plus damage is lost and the recharge is greater but i prefer distracting.I Heal If U Shutup 17:54, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

nerf
to chilling victory? Pwnagemuffin 20:02, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * oh noes --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 02:07, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Replace Chilling Victory with Wild Blow imo  Frosty  No U!  02:27, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * this build used to have wild blow in it anyway who removed it and why wasn't it listed under changes? --Malcanthet 04:12, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Or you could change the atts to 12+1 scythe, 10+1+1 myst, 8+1 wind. Solves the problem imho--<font color=#C68E17>Golden [[image:Goldenstar.JPG|19px]]<font color=#C68E17>Star 07:22, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Meta?
Is this still used? The avatar is down over 50% of the time. The IAS is down over 40% of the time. Wearying strike kills damage output if AoM isn't up so it's almost useless half the time. Chilling victory got nerfed so the overall damage/spike output is lower. Is this build's effectiveness during its peak usability really worth its downsides? More importantly, is it actually still being used in the meta? --Aubee91 16:56, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
 * No, there is no real reason to use this because izzy is in love with Wounding Strike. Brandnew.  16:58, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

bar
is all fucked up. needs to be completely revised. --<font color="Black">Readem 18:14, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

It is true it just dosent work anymore more builds now can counter ther now -_-


 * Sign with ~, plz. <font color="41 69 E1">Ace <font color ="#0099FF">(LVPoW)  00:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

Prot Strike
>Bulls-- Shadow 07:56, 12 October 2008 (EDT)


 * Nothing > bull's. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 08:53, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
 * zzz, think more regurgitate what you've been told less. This is a derv, not a war. You have one KD without stonefist, and you attack slower than non-hammer wars. Bull's becomes really good when you're pressuring, AoM is a spike build. Bull's is decent, but saying its a necessity just because it's amazing on wars is dumb. 86.143.21.233 09:24, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

General bar + unarchive
K, Pious Fury of Heart of Fury so you can spike practically on demand, removes enchants but who cares that's just free health and energy for you. optionals can be filled with /W attacks (Bull's, Prot strike etc) or Rush. /Me for Hex Breaker (to break teh hexes between spikes), /A for Dash and Shadow Fang (lol spike calling), or you could take like imbue and some over derv skills i dunno (Pious Haste meybe). -- Frosty  02:21, 19 November 2008 (EST)