Archive talk:Team - TA Energy Denial Mesmers

Drain Enchantment fails even more after the nerf. Inspired ftw. Also, why no shatter? Tycn 08:31, 15 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Where can I squeeze in Shatter? Instead of PLeak? [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|User:Viet|19px]]Viet talk  . 23:17, 15 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Drop Inspiration from the first mesmer and use GoLE isntead of drain, shatter instead of guilt, shame instead of burn. On the second, swap leak for pdrain probably, and drain enchantment for shatter. Tycn 06:42, 16 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Better now? :D [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|User:Viet|19px]]Viet talk  . 23:52, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

K, need more discussion so I can move into testing soon :D Viet talk  . 04:19, 24 October 2007 (CEST)

Should I keep Healing Signet on warrior? o-O Viet •  t  /  c  22:08, 26 October 2007 (CEST)

With 3 squishies, the warrior probably won't be taking a lot of punishment. Also, here's an idea; dual surge spike! [build prof=w/d scy=12 str=12+1+1][rage of the ntouka][body blow][protector's strike][bull's strike][frenzy][rush][Rending Touch][Resurrection Signet][/build] + a shell shock on a mesmer. Though pay no heed, just a random idea... Tycn 12:39, 27 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Interesting.. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet •  t  /  c  20:16, 27 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Rather failing, that bar sucks so hard. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]Unexist  22:06, 1 December 2007 (CET)

Aneurysm on one of the Mesmers can provide a good way to finish off enemies, particularly casters, who are already under pressure and who lack energy. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  20:20, 27 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Hmm... All I can think of is replacing Energy Burn on the Me/Mo. I added as a possible variant. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet •  t  /  c  20:22, 27 October 2007 (CEST)

Testing
I'm going to move this to testing soon. If you have any more suggestions please list them. Viet •  t  /  c  02:11, 28 October 2007 (CET)
 * /sigh. Noone discusses until I move to testing then I get all sorts of complaints and low ratings so I'll wait some more. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet talk  06:07, 30 October 2007 (CET)

Steady Stance Nerf
SS nerf makes using a scythe bad. Should prob use an axe now instead. [build prof=w/d tac=12+1+1 Axe=11+1 str=6+1][Steady Stance][Drunken Blow][Desperation Blow][Disrupting Chop]["Fear Me!"]["Watch Yourself!"][Rending Touch][Resurrection Signet][/build] Something like this.P C Gamer 17:57, 31 October 2007 (CET)
 * Okay, seems good. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet talk  22:03, 31 October 2007 (CET)
 * How is axe better? Tycn 07:43, 1 November 2007 (CET)
 * Idk... [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet talk  23:06, 1 November 2007 (CET)
 * Scythe still rapes. - Rawrawr  23:07, 1 November 2007 (CET)
 * Wasn't there a nerf to Steady Stance to where it only prevents the first KD, so if you hit more than one with the scyth you get KD?P C Gamer 04:46, 2 November 2007 (CET)
 * The most recent one I can think of is, if your Desp or Drunken Blow gets blocked, you aren't knocked down.. or something along those lines. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]]Viet talk  04:54, 2 November 2007 (CET)
 * Okay I misunderstood the skill update. Then yes, Scythe > Axe.P C Gamer 07:54, 2 November 2007 (CET)

A moebius strike sin or Shatter assault sin can charge fear me up nicely also, with a good steady dps. - Jak123X 05:04, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * The party already has 3 squishies. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 05:05, 11 November 2007 (CET)
 * Its a decent variation, though. Btw, should I change to WoH monk or keep ZB? Viet (talk *pvxcontribs ) 05:07, 11 November 2007 (CET)

Draw > Veil IMO. Swiftslash \\  (contributions  * sandbox ) 10:57, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Okay, I'll place it as a variant. <font color="Black">Viet (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 19:55, 24 November 2007 (CET)
 * Should be in main. Also two veils is unecessary, IMO bring Deny on monk or remove on mesmer. Also I'd drop shame on Me/Mo for Draw if you can't fit it. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 14:17, 25 November 2007 (CET)
 * K, fixed. <font color="Black">Viet (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 23:42, 25 November 2007 (CET)

This build looks gud but tbh, SS is killing the mesmers offense o.O Swiftslash \\   (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 23:30, 27 November 2007 (CET)


 * tbh maybe something like this.


 * You get the point. Every 20 sec you could potentially get off a 288 dmg spike following Shock (and then evis+shatter mebbe). You're more certain to get dmg from ES/EB if the warrior is not constantly haxxing the monks energy. Also shock axes are leet. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 23:34, 27 November 2007 (CET)
 * Well, I was going for more of a pressure build based off e-denial, instead of a spike. [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]] [[User:Viet|

v iзти  ]]  αмзѕ з   03:34, 28 November 2007 (CET)


 * Dom hexes + shock axe are gud pressure, this just adds spike capability. Allthough original build is more pressure. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 20:40, 28 November 2007 (CET)


 * Spiking is kinda fail in TA, even with two mesmers. It's just not worth it. — <font color="Black">Tycn (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">pvxcontribs ) 08:00, 29 November 2007 (CET)
 * You don't need to spike, bulls + shock + diversion when he stands up = dead monk. - [[Image:Weapon_of_Fury.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  22:18, 1 December 2007 (CET)

Axe/Scythe and Attribute Allocation
Would go with an axe over scythe and bring Disrupting Chop as suggested above. Disrupting Chop is better than anything you can bring with a scythe. Six adrenaline interrupt with a 20 second disable is much better than the occasional hit on two targets (if you hit three foes, they should just resign and go back to PvE). Keep in mind you get 3 adrenaline from SS plus the one per attack so you can potentially interrupt every 5-6 seconds with D-Chop. Also, the attributes aren't balanced very well. Running 12 in Scythe Mastery (or Axe if it is changed) doesn't benefit as much as running more Strength would. Mastery adds 1% to critical hit and you're not running any skills from the weapon attribute line. Drop Weapon Mastery to a total of 10 and pump up Strength for natural armor penetration and it will do more damage. Try with a 12/10/8 or 12/9/9 distribution with runes as preferred. --Rururrur 07:03, 27 December 2007 (EST)
 * 12 scythe = more damage than 10 scythe, not more crit chance. 12 scythe + crit = ouch. AP only triggers on attack skills, not normal attacks (GASP, 2% more ap every 4 whacks). – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 13:24, 27 December 2007 (EST)

Just Since You Didn't Do Your Homework, I'll Copy Paste It Here

Scythe Mastery

Scythe Mastery directly relates to the weapon 'scythe' and skills required by a scythe. It also affects the amount of damage a scythe and the skills related to it will do.

Scythe Mastery is a requirement for meeting a scythe's max damage. The chance of inflicting a critical hit, like all weapon attributes, will also increase depending on this attribute's level.

Unlike other weapon attributes, Scythe Mastery offers quite a few Melee Attacks, which can be used with any melee weapon.


 * So since you are meeting the req of your weapon, you ARE doing max damage with the scythe, and since the build is not using any SCYTHE SKILLS the extra points do nothing but change the critical hit rate. And yes, the AP on the strength attribute only effects attack skills (maybe I wasn't clear on that, just assumed everyone knew how it worked), which you are using every time you use Drunken/Desperation and hopefully D-Chop if changed to axe.  But you cannot honestly say that 8-10% AP will do less less damage than an extra 2.7% chance to critical especially when factoring in auto-criticals if your foe is running away.  And I'm reffering to the main page, not the discussions, that has attributes set at 12 Scythe and 3 in Strength, which is a very noticeable change in damage. --69.136.36.39 03:08, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * You only get full damage with mastery 12+, do your homework please. &mdash; [[Image:Uber sig pic 1.JPG]] <font color="green" face="arial bold">Uber <font color="red" face="arial bold">iz <font color="green" face="arial bold">Awesome 03:26, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Damage Rating
 * DRnoncaster = 5 &times; Rank;  if Rank <= Threshold
 * DRnoncaster = 5 &times; Threshold + 2 &times; (Rank-Threshold);  if Rank > Threshold
 * Threshold1 = Level /2 + 2

The hidden damage bonus applies with attribute greater than the threshold, not equal to it, therefore 12 in mastery does not exceed the threshold and does not apply any hidden damage bonus. If you wanted to run an axe, hammer, or sword you could exceed the threshold with 13 or more mastery by running a larger rune, which is fine, or dropping points from tactics which isn't advisable. With a Scythe though, the threshold cannot be exceeded on a Warrior primary. And max damage on your weapon and hidden increases to damage rating are two different things, therefore if the Scythe is kept, the weapon will be at its max damage potential if the requirement is met for the weapon, Damage Rating can be increased by 10 points but the AP will result in higher average damage, at what point the balance peaks I'm uncertain, but it is not 12 Mastery with 3 Strength. --Rururrur 03:51, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * Proof enough? Both hits were crits from wild blow. &mdash; [[Image:Uber sig pic 1.JPG]] <font color="green" face="arial bold">Uber <font color="red" face="arial bold">iz <font color="green" face="arial bold">Awesome 04:10, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * Instead of editing the same thing over and over you should indent and comment, it makes it way less confusing. &mdash; [[Image:Uber sig pic 1.JPG]] <font color="green" face="arial bold">Uber <font color="red" face="arial bold">iz <font color="green" face="arial bold">Awesome 04:29, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * Sorry about that, was editing when you posted. I'm not arguing that the damage rating is higher with more mastery, which effects damage rating, not max damage of the weapon, I'm arguing that I think there is a better damage over time balance than 12/3.  I'm concerned mostly with the non critical damage on Desperation/Drunken, which I am testing with different attribute distribution currently.  --Rururrur 04:37, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * (edit conflict)Did more testing:
 * on 60 AL targets:
 * Wild Blow @12 scythe & 4 strength: 84 damage
 * Wild Blow @11 scythe & 9 strength: 81 damage
 * Wild Blow @10 scythe & 11 strength: 76 damage
 * on 80 AL targets:
 * Wild Blow @12 scythe & 4 strength: 61 damage
 * Wild Blow @11 scythe & 9 strength: 60 damage
 * Wild Blow @10 scythe & 11 strength: 56 damage
 * on 100 AL targets:
 * Wild Blow @12 scythe & 4 strength: 43 damage
 * Wild Blow @11 scythe & 9 strength: 44 damage
 * Wild Blow @10 scythe & 11 strength: 41 damage
 * Take into account that you won't be getting the extra AP every hit, you can see that 12 scythe and 4 strength is the clear winner. &mdash; [[Image:Uber sig pic 1.JPG]] <font color="green" face="arial bold">Uber <font color="red" face="arial bold">iz <font color="green" face="arial bold">Awesome 04:43, 28 December 2007 (EST)
 * Well done, I was basing my conclusions off the Damage Calculation formulas which I now think may be flawed for Damage Rating. I believe the formula for Threshold could possibly be related to weapon req.  Well proven, Uber.  --Rururrur 04:48, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Im not going to pretend like I know what all these charts, statistics, and screenshots are about. v iзти    αмзѕ з   04:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Now that that is settled, lol. Is scythe worth bringing over the axes melee ranged version of D-shot? --Rururrur 04:50, 28 December 2007 (EST)


 * dshot is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay moar godly. Yes, scythe's worth it. Energy – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 13:59, 28 December 2007 (EST)

very minor but should a minor run of strength be added to the warrior?
 * why not [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]] [[User:Viet|

v iзти  ]]  αмзѕ з   02:28, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * Because almost any other rune would be more helpful. --Mafaraxas 08:15, 1 January 2008 (EST)

ENERGY SURGE IN TA!!!
Thank you Master, I am your humble servant for making Energy Surge mesmers not confined to GvG! Thank you Vietnamese god walking among mere mortals!  RustyTheMesmer  16:57, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * k your first task is to give me 20k gogo [[Image:Hammer And Sickle.png|19px]] [[User:Viet|

v iзти  ]]  αмзѕ з   19:25, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * He's right Viet. People don't use energy in TA.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  19:57, 1 January 2008 (EST)
 * The point is while this fails is that the denial doesn't have much effect, in gvg, if you denial both monks, you got 8 kills. Here in ta, where they only have 1 monk, kd spam at monk would usually be better then draining him out of energy. You'll usually will have interupts at e-surge/e-burn if you're facing a decent team. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  11:41, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Fail from the start?
E denial wont do much in TA especially since almost 70% of the teams do not depend on casters. They are usually just an addition to the team. Even though, this team won't have enough pressure to wipe a team.Og lo 07:11, 2 January 2008 (EST)
 * WRONG. Change it to Shock Axe and it can spike, keep it as steady stance and it can pressure. It can e-deny Monks too don't forget, and THAT is a caster. <font color=#ff0000>Napalm Flame  >=] [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] <font color=#0000ff>(talk)·(contributions) 16:12, 2 January 2008 (EST)
 * 99% of the teams are monk backline, Necro hexer, frontline and extra slot which is often filled with another caster (support rit, etc). All teams (except randomway and paraway) depend on a caster healer. Also SS is great pressure, no energy is great pressure and div+shame is leet. Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 08:34, 2 January 2008 (EST)
 * Your war will be hax stacked, your mesmers will be interupted, your monk killed(just a ward = dead monk anyway, you're not gonna survive with that). - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]<font color="Black">Unexist  11:42, 2 January 2008 (EST)
 * You're pointing out a totally different flaw... Swiftslash \\  [[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (<font color="Black">contributions  * sandbox ) 13:04, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Maybe so, but thats still little protection againt any melee team.

Needs a new warrior with the nerf to "Fear Me!". 76.89.84.136 21:05, 10 February 2008 (EST)


 * lol SS is recharging as well anyway. One thing IS noob and should be removed from a good TA build, which is res chant in a TA build.[[Image:Impossible_Odds.jpg‎|19px]] Frans  10:58, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

WOw FAIL!
This fails so hard now oO ¨ Massive  12:26, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

Archive
No one would run that ZB Monk in TA, "Fear Me!" nerf, "Watch Yourself!" nerf, just generally very outdated. --<font color="Black"> * Wah <font color="DAA520">Wah  Wah! * 12:34, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Haha wow yeah half of this team's been mega-nerfed by nowComfortOsprey 12:37, 18 August 2008 (EDT)