Build talk:Me/A JQ Wastrel's Capper


 * People are inevitably going to compare this to the other two standard JQ builds, the Mo/P RoJ and the N/A bomber. So I'll preemptively make some points against them:
 * Compared to RoJ
 * Pros
 * Kills carriers better
 * Don't need Glyph of Essence/Mantra of Resolve to successfully avoid interruption, since all nuking spells are 1/4 second
 * NPCs can't scatter
 * The only damage that you should take is a single Sundering Attack from the Rangers, if anything, so you don't need to heal yourself when nuking
 * Caps faster (5 seconds compared to 9; 2 seconds for RoJ to cast, 5 for the effect of RoJ, and 2 for the burning
 * Diversion
 * Interrupts for defense
 * Mobility
 * Cons
 * No NPC healing
 * No carrier support
 * Can't nuke centre/yellow ranger shrines
 * Hard to kill ranger NPCs without height advantage
 * Compared to Bomber Necro
 * Pros
 * Immune to Rend Enchantments
 * Recharges faster
 * Kills Juggs
 * Can defend
 * Is useful against other players
 * Less predictable
 * Can capture multiple shrines without needing to run from base each time
 * Cons
 * Can't nuke Ranger shrines
 * N/A is a bit faster at nuking


 * And someone's going to bring up that it's similar to the PI gatebreaker already on PvX but I feel that although the core skills are the same, the playstyle is different enough to warrant a separate page. They will probably be merged together, but I feel that if two different usage sections are there, it might as well be split. Both are for CMs, but JQ =! FA. Cosky 09:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * yes but we already have Archive:Me/N JQ Psychic Distraction Mesmer which shares the 3 most important skills of this build (PI/WW/WD) as well as some better ones, Diversion and Viper's Defence seem rather unnecessary. Dash is good, but not exactly that key. Kracatoan 09:36, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * and I don't buy your "it's better without chaos storm argument" seeing as with chaos storm, you run up, cast CS, cast WD once the mesmer has used echo and then take a couple of steps backwards. That caps a shrine in 10 seconds and only goes wrong if you've got some idiot with fire storm making them scatter. Kracatoan 09:40, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This caps faster which I feel is key when other players are killing you, and everything is 1/4 second cast. Viper's Defense really is amazing mobility for jumping up/down cliffs, while melee chasing you take the long way up the stairs; the best example is jumping up/down the cliff of the Yellow quarry and saving ~10 seconds of time on your way to the next target. Chaos Storm is useless outside of capping (e-denial is minor and no good players are going to stand there for more than 2 pulses). And the idiots with Fire Storm don't matter, because PI means no scatter, and if they get there first and scatter everything there's no easy way to cap the quarry with anything. Cosky 09:58, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Nobody uses Chaos Storm for killing players, much in the same way that no-one uses RoJ for that purpose either. JQ is about capping shrines and defending carriers, there really isn't any need to deal with players unless they are targeting a shrine. Chaos storm + WD takes around 3 seconds to put on a shrine, which isn't enough time for anyone to kill you, especially seeing as you can normally fit in an ether feast between the two. As I've said, we already have builds with PI/WW/WD on them as well as a better set of skills to complement them. Kracatoan 10:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it works great, i used this one which is similar and sometimes capable to kill the other ranger shrines too(interupt Powershot). HoS is too annoy melee, by jumping off the cliffs and moving faster around. Sjan  10:08, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

[build prof=Me/A fas=9 dom=12 ins=8 sha=5][Psychic Instability][Wastrel's Worry][Wastrel's Demise][Cry of Frustration][Leech Signet][Chaos Storm][Heart of Shadow][Dash][/build]
 * Yes that may work well, but it isn't different enough from exisiting builds to warrent a new page. Kracatoan 10:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Heart of Shadow instead of Viper's Defense. You actually shadow step further with HoS than you do with VD, plus it gives you at least a minor self-heal. -- Jai . -  00:44, June 17 2011 (UTC)


 * this build already exists--Silven Shadow 09:42, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * From above: "And someone's going to bring up that it's similar to the PI gatebreaker already on PvX but I feel that although the core skills are the same, the playstyle is different enough to warrant a separate page. They will probably be merged together, but I feel that if two different usage sections are there, it might as well be split. Both are for CMs, but JQ =! FA.)" Also, didn't know you actually went further with HoS. Cool. Cosky 13:39, 17 June 2011 (UTC)Cosky 13:39, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The playstyle really isn't that different - use PI to knock things over, spam WW/WD when they are knocked down and after NPCs use skills, put Chaos Storm in clumps of NPCs, use utility skills as required. CM are the most basic form of gameplay imaginable and with builds like this, the playstyle is near enough identical for both. Kracatoan 13:45, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

To clarify things
We have two very similar bars that perform two separate functionalities in two different arenas. We have two options: Either option works for me. Let's come to a consensus and act on that consensus so this shit will stop cluttering my fucking RC--TahiriVeila 14:23, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Keep the bars separate. It doesn't make much of a difference whether we have two similar pages since the bars are for different purposes in different arenas.
 * 2) Merge the two pages and list optionals since the two builds are very similar
 * Merge Kracatoan 14:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm trying it now, but I cant cap ranger shrine. It says I must keep spamming WW/WD but rangers keep spamming their skills too. Also, I almost never use Diversion, maybe would be better to switch out for like Unattural signet, since this build has energy problems.-- ValeV 666 06:55, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're above the ranger or on an equal plane with them, there's a sweet spot just on the edge of your agro bubble where you can cast spells on the rangers but they won't attack you.--TahiriVeila 19:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just either WELL this or merge. This build's function can be easily done as in the build that was posted longb efore it. I honestly can't think of any valid arguments that would support have two separate pages with the same essential build skill wise. Spamming Wastrel's is hardily a method work keeping in a build when the other can do it and provide other methods of pressure/utility/what have you. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 19:43, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Gonna be messy in votes, but merging is probably best Cosky 07:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

This is meta, merging is unnecessary; build needs to be fixed a little though-- Relyk 02:09, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The word, capper irks me. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 02:20, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The new pvp flux...
interestingly seems to make this hit and miss, though I may simply be fucking terrible. If the burst of Wastrel's Worry occurs before the final burst of Wastrel's Demise, the Mesmer NPCs will both die but all of the others will have that 55~ health left. So you can't queue WW with PI, which is what using this build prior to the update made you tend to do. I think that's what happened with me, unless I am simply...? Dêñår  drāŵ  17:59, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, July's flux basically ruins wastrel's capping. You'll need a Chaos Storm to help, or rely on other skills/teammates.  At any rate, this build has multiple ways of capping.  For instance, I use Wastrel's Worry, then PI, then Wastrel's Demise, then another Wastrel's Worry before they get up, and then I finish with a Fry of Crustacean.  I find leading with a WW as opposed to WD prevents scatter.  71.34.62.162 21:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Easiest way to nuke with flux is to target one of the eles after WW on the centre mes, wait for WW to trigger, THEN CoF the ele. Cosky 05:55, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ugh. Never mind, WW triggers before WD if you chain them, leaving the non-mesmers with 20 health, and if you use WW a moment later, then if the centre mesmer uses Echo, it'll nix WW...it's a big mess. Stick to RoJ/Bomber for the month I guess. Cosky 22:29, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I had no problems at all with capping.-- ValeV 666[[file:smily.jpg|link=User:ValeV666]] 23:56, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither did Jesus. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 23:57, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In that case I'm just terrible, which isn't surprising Cosky 03:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Proof that flux doesnt affect cap
Go watch it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v6usIzL82s -- ValeV 666 01:24, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Malformed video ID. --  Toraen   talk  01:26, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Fix'd.-- ValeV 666[[file:smily.jpg|link=User:ValeV666]] 01:27, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

HoS FTW
Besides HoS is the best kite and heal skill it can also do some other cool things, old screenie with VoR Sjan  20:59, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Equipment
Equipment template code would be nice &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.191.246.62 (talk &bull; contribs) 00:14, 28 July 2011 (UTC).
 * Would it really have been that hard to add yourself? The stuff you need is listed right there. Regardless, it's there now. --  Toraen   talk  05:54, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

other ranger stations
I added usage for other ranger stations, will try to record it, post video on youtube and add a link here, so you can get a better view what to do.--95.176.166.142 23:42, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok video is here.--95.176.166.142 00:30, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Please dont edit usage for other ranger shrines, if you're not sure. You cant cast WW twice in 1.5 seconds, so it is required to wand them first.--95.176.166.142 09:56, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

who removed...
HoS and its usage?-- ValeV 666 11:23, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Probaly some melee, who finds it very annoying:) Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 11:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It *was* moved to optionals, not removed. It's a decent option, but most people don't use it, despite how useful it is. The situation with capping ranger shrines bothers me as well, there isn't an issue with Chaos Storm (which every single person except vale uses). And try not to act to possessive of the build vale ^^-- Relyk 12:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I dont see how HoS is decent. I just played JQ and some dervish was continually chasing me. I was just jumping up and down a hill, he was running around (ye ok, might be a bot, but still). Chaos storm is decent, but 30s recharge is long. I tried it and mostly i was waiting it to recharge. That's why I dont use it. Sorry about being possessive, I just like this build and see a lot of wrong informations. :)-- ValeV 666[[file:smily.jpg|link=User:ValeV666]] 12:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * HoS wins. Just gotta jump up/down the hills that it take longer to run around, kite a bit during the downtime and you can stall any melee infinitely while still nuking green/purple, not to mention being able to go up/down at the giant yellow cliff. Leaving optional slots seems best, different people have different playstyle. Cosky 20:29, 7 August 2011 (UTC)