Archive talk:Team - Luxon Jade Arena FFF

I'm not sure the reason behind first reject, however it has works wonders for my alliance. This build also used for many other guilds who learned it. Kullwarrior
 * the [any] alliance usually uses Rodgort's Invocation. i also met a guild that used a variation of the assassin promise nuker. i would also get rid of the two monks thing since 2 monks is very unnecessary.--207.172.193.204 21:58, 13 September 2007 (CEST)
 * feel free to add and can some people seriously start rating realistically? this is like oldest in-testing build. Its been bout half a year already since this style was used. Kullwarrior
 * I think I have to make a statement, please rate this carefully not beacuse of "Oh so many requirement, need real ppl = fail" etc UNLESS you can comeup with alternative way I see no point why this shouldnt get a good rating like the Kurz FFF Kullwarrior

i get 5k faction in 15min from ab Majikmajikmajik 16:29, 27 September 2007 (CEST)
 * do u hack abs ? /sarcasm Edwina Elbert  [[Image:Sandstorm.jpg|20px]] 23:14, 27 September 2007 (CEST)

care to explain? cause 5k /15min is basically two wins from capping 7 points. Even I went with an organized sync play we still couldnt get a 100% 5k 15min. Kullwarrior
 * Being Luxon + Deep Kurzick for nine hours + Double AB Rewards Weekend = 5k/15mins, el oh el. --InternetLOL 02:24, 11 October 2007 (CEST)

Why start at jade flats? Why not at breaker hollow? You only need to fight like 2 groups and pretty much eliminates having to use a runner.~Nittle Grasper
 * Cause it's faster...Swift Thief 21:46, 11 October 2007 (CEST)

SH Nuker
with SF? The Paintballer (T/C) 01:04, 11 October 2007 (CEST) look at this way, one person sets up flame, other SF Ele gets to spike that foe to deathKullwarrior

Statement
There was recently spamming of this (flames) regarding this, People accused me of stealing this build for some reason. This build's creator is by Pimp Master Jay (leader of [any]) permission to write this on PvX was given a long time ago back then when I post one that was rejected. I'm just posting here because I have my mail box fill with reply from A-Net regards about each complaint I filed. I do not like filing report neither make other suffer. However, I will continue to report for every flame, if it continues. Kullwarrior October 13, 2007

They're just scared of a bit of competition, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Unreal Havoc 16:20, 17 October 2007 (CEST)

Runner attributes
Why put points and a rune into deadly arts when you don't use it? Unreal Havoc 16:20, 17 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Dont know, mistake. Kullwarrior

Alternitives?
Any1 think the alternitives should be added here, i.e. N/A FoC Spike in for Ele, R/A Runner or Rt/A Healer? Gecko 15:32, 3 November 2007 (CET)
 * No, this is the fastest and most effective way to FFF from Jade Flats. [[Image:UnrealHavocSig.jpg|19px]]Unreal Havoc  16:05, 3 November 2007 (CET)

i could see a rt/a healer as a alternative.--Simpson man 01:12, 28 November 2007 (CET)
 * I think some kinda of Rt/A healer and even some kinda of FoC or IV necro build should be added as variants....even though yes the current setup is fastest it just makes the build more versatile and dropping 1 ele isn't going to mess your speed much at all trust me....I have ran in teams using Rt/A instead of Mo/A and teams with 1 Necro (I think they where Icy Veins) on board speeds seem identical 121.45.255.28 07:43, 5 January 2008 (EST)

[any] dethroned
Blood Gods Wrath [BGW], my current guild, has overtaken [any] as the Cavalon owning alliance. I edited the opening section to comply.  Rusty  00:37, 29 February 2008 (EST)


 * This was only true for a couple of hours, I know I was in the alliance at the time. I'll change it back. Holyducks 12:54, 1 March 2008 (EST)
 * HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Shot yourself in the foot there Rusty didn't you... [any] are comfortable lol. They could get there faction a lot higher, but your alliance is full... --Reject o&#39; EMP 07:45, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Edits
Made some minor edits to the page. Added more accurate information regarding stopping Portus for the runner and added Dwarven Stabilty in variants for the runner optional slot. I'd also just like to point out that Runes for Shadow Arts are not mandatory for the runner and I will edit the page to reflect this if no one has any objections. Selket Shadowdancer 16:20, 3 May 2008 (EDT)
 * No disagreemnt made, changes made. Selket Shadowdancer 17:03, 3 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Added Dwarven Stability and Ebon Escape to the main build as it speeds up running time considerably. Other skills added into variants for people who don't own Eye of the North. Also edited usage to reflect the changes and explain the use of the new skills. Selket Shadowdancer 07:10, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Added the more commonly seen A/E Assassin's Promise nuker variant to Nuker section. Looking for Nec nuker and Rit healer builds to add to the article. Selket Shadowdancer 06:01, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Edited to conform to a higher standard, add variants, reduce redundancies in explanation, and generally tidy the article. Selket Shadowdancer 07:11, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

running variant
this build is usable by many proffesionsdHowe304 14:26, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

this is the build he used. put points into mystism, wind prayers, wilderness survival. 86.146.194.58 15:06, 7 May 2008 (EDT) that was me it logged me out  That  Twin   Tom  15:06, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * That's several seconds slower =( &not; Klump  eet  15:07, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

not much slower and wit featherfooted grace you move 50/57% faster which isnt bad  That  Twin   Tom  15:09, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * It doesn't stack above 33%. And it is much slower because you can't shadowstep. &not; Klump  eet  15:11, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

so not everyone has a sin that far in factions this is just an alternative for those people. its not fair only sins/rangers/monks/eles can FFF  That  Twin   Tom  15:14, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
 * If they're to the Jade Arena, they should have a sin that far. If they don't, then they must either be stupid noobs or dumb kids; Neither of which would be smart enough and experienced enough to do FFF anyways. 69.208.115.248 02:36, 9 August 2008 (EDT)


 * At the end of the day the Assassin and Ranger do the run the quickest, and thats what its about, and also missing the shadowstep (Death's Charge) is a really BIG key element of completing the run quicker. Selket Shadowdancer 15:50, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

there is a shadow step, ebon escape. Howe304 10:51, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

[build prof=Dervish/Ranger Wilderness=12 Myst=12+1+3][Dwarven Stability][Natural Stride][Storm Chaser][Pious Haste][optional][Vow of Silence][Ebon Escape][Frozen Soil][/build]


 * But not Deaths Charge which cuts down on running time considerably. You should ideally be running both a shadowstep that targets a foe, and a shadowstep that targets an ally. Selket Shadowdancer 16:23, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
 * idealy yes but it only takes of about 2-3 secs.[[Image: Howe304sig.jpg|20px]]Howe304 02:32, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
 * All those extra seconds add up over a few hours of FFF. I'm not saying your version doesn't work, but it's not the fastest and FFF is called FFF for a reason (IE: FAST!). Selket Shadowdancer 06:36, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I use this build becuase i have no other choice, its not that bad but yes, over 25 runs its about 2-3 mins extra time, not alot but i understand, i just think its worth storing.[[Image: Howe304sig.jpg|20px]]Howe304 04:14, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Add it to notes or variants then. &not; Klump  eet  04:19, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Disagree, because it also loses the Shadow of Haste and Dash combo on top of Deaths Charge. If it's the only build that you use then I can appreciate you not understanding why this is important. I'm willing to bet that this variant Devish/Ranger build takes a good 10-20 seconds per run longer than the Assassin and Ranger versions in its current state because of its lack of versatility in shadowstepping, if the time difference was minimal (ie: a couple of seconds) it would be worth storing, this however is not. Selket Shadowdancer 06:38, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I raced an A/R i was only about 5secs longer.[[Image: Howe304sig.jpg|20px]]Howe304 09:54, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Then he wasn't a very good runner. Selket Shadowdancer 09:56, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Apparently not. It isn't a terible build, it should be stored because it is only a little bit slower than alot of runners out there.[[Image: Howe304sig.jpg|20px]]Howe304 02:57, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Doesn't need Storm Chaser with Dwarven Stability. [build prof=Dervish/Ranger Wilderness=12 Myst=12+1+3][Dwarven Stability][Natural Stride][Pious Haste][optional][optional][Vow of Silence][Ebon Escape][Frozen Soil][/build] It isn't bad but it clearly misses Shadow of Haste being in the bar which DOES slow the build down alot. Instead of teleporting back down to the bottom of the steps you have to run back down (with Arena Master Portus following you), cast Frozen Soil and then run back to the steps, leaving very little room for error. PvX is about storing the best possible builds for the designated purpose, while not bad this isn't one of them. Selket Shadowdancer 06:45, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I prefer to use FS first, not only does this meen the team can recast recall on you speeding up the resigning proccess it meens it easier to block portus.[[Image: Howe304sig.jpg|20px]]Howe304 02:48, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Still slower, the whole point of not doing FS first (otherwise all runners would do it) is so the team can get on with the killing while you lay your spirit and then block Portus. Resigning quicker isn't that big an issue if your team is switched on and has half a clue on how to use Recall. Selket Shadowdancer 03:46, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Necromancer variants
So far I've got:

[build prof=n/a Soul=12+1+1 Death=12+1][Icy Veins][Putrid Bile][Rising Bile][Necrosis][Putrid Explosion][Well of Suffering][Signet of Lost Souls][Recall][/build]

Need to know the rest of the skills used in the build. Selket Shadowdancer 06:24, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

So far I've got: Rising Bile, Well of Suffering? Got it. Selket Shadowdancer 06:28, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * IMO FoC Nuker Works Better :

[build prof=n/a Soul=12+1 Curses=12+1+3][Mindbender][Suffering][Feast of Corruption][Signet of Corruption][Snow Storm][optional][Signet of Lost Souls][Recall][/build] Howe304 05:23, 24 May 2008 (EDT)


 * I only have to look at recharge times to say "not really" Quite inferior to the Icy Veins Necromancer in FFF. It might work but nowhere near as well as IV nukers (they make stuff explode literally). Thanks for your input though. Selket Shadowdancer 12:45, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Necrosis isnt realy worth it, id swap for Mindbender[[Image: Howe304sig.jpg|20px]]Howe304 14:34, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Mindbender isn't needed. Don't need to run faster, and don't have any spells that take more than 1 second to cast. + Necrosis has just 2 second recharge meaning it can be spammed on targets hexed with RB and IV etc. Selket Shadowdancer 14:37, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Ritualist variants
Looking for the healer variant commonly run in Jade Flats. Selket Shadowdancer 06:24, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

Jade Arena Hfff
Here is a link to videos and how to for a 2 account solo Hfff run from Jade flats under 2 min. This doubles the faction for the guild  and money per player. I maintain 600k of faction and have maxed over 850k faction.Azwildbill

Yes it can be done as a solo hfff at 1:46 min ( movie is on the web site )with the build. It does help u max you title I started a lvl 1 4 months ago now I'm lvl 11 from doing this run. look at luxon progrees on web site. It doubles faction for your guild and helps bring 2 characters thur luxon title.Azwildbill


 * I removed your edits because I believe that team build deserves its own article rather than being tacked onto this one. Selket Shadowdancer 05:54, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Why PvX Wiki is Bad - Optimum over Practical
This build page is exactly why PvX wiki is bad. FFF is not about bringing cookie cutter builds, it's about getting as many people as you can to fill spots. The actual fight involved in this build can be completed by sooooo many different skills, builds and classes all within little to no difference from the SF ele.

The ritualist healer can often be better than the monk due to the ability to res more easily with an item spell should someone die (I've seen both situations and people resign with a monk but wait with a rit) but here you list the monk build and NOT the rit build. A/E is just as viable as SF and loses barely any efficiency - PvX is about the "most optimum" sure but a build that does 700 dmg in one hit and one that does 10,000 dmg in one hit are going to kill a 600 health mob just as quickly as each other. Many eles choose to run the Heat spells instead of SF and that works too.

Having a build page which lists only the "optimum" builds reduces FFF in several ways;
 * FFF is about getting as many people to complete it as possible, many people don't have a SF ele or want to play one but have a Necro that can be just as valuable if not more than a 6th SF ele. Even barrage rangers work well and have the addition of on demand interruption for the healers that manage to live through meteor shower.
 * Many players will FFF longer in a class they more enjoy playing than the standard SF ele thus making variety better than the "optimum" builds due to prolonged running and reduced boredom with no sacrifice to efficiency at all.
 * Forming groups which are superior to the too often used hero groups is more likely with a variety of potential classes due to more people saying "hey I like that class and can run that build".
 * If you have one pure group of SF eles with the assassin runner (which I've seen have more problems than the ranger runner) and monk healer, you could probably have formed three or more groups of other classes mixed with your eles completing runs just as well.

I am in the Braveheart World XI alliance which owns Cavalon and does more Luxon FFF than any other group of players in GW and one thing I have learnt is that sticking to the PvX wiki "optimum" builds is a sure way to severely reduce the efficiency and effectiveness of your runs, which is not the goal of FFF. 122.104.161.96 01:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)


 * FFF is serious guys. I hope this anon has taught you all a valuable lesson. --Readem 01:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * srs bsns--75.94.77.148 02:38, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
 * This is the best way to do it. PvX is not forcing you to follow the build page to the word, rather the opposite. Everyone is encouraged to make changes, however small, to the build to make it more efficient, fun, or to suit what resources a player has at his or her disposal when they use them. If you have a variant, by all means go ahead and use it, but it's not logical or fair to show all of the other billion possibilities. As a human being, I might add that PvX is a valuable resource given freely to you. Criticizing the wiki for the fault (if that) of a single editor is not at all constructive or even decent. Please, feel free to discuss the possibility of any variants on this page, but, honestly, PvX has more important affairs at hand than the whining of a pissy bitch. And I'm not even an Admin. Also, please put complaints about the wiki in their respective talk page rather than on a build discussion. EDIT: oh, forgot to mention that I added farming tag because I hadn't ever seen this build before today. ~ Jujipoo   talk  21:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)
 * I just ninja'd an invite into some guild in [any] alliance (something Damage Radius or something) and they said that only fire eles do your FFF thing. It's rather unfortunate when people in your own alliance disagree with you, tbh. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

"The ritualist healer can often be better than the monk due to the ability to res more easily with an item spell should someone die (I've seen both situations and people resign with a monk but wait with a rit) but here you list the monk build and NOT the rit build. A/E is just as viable as SF and loses barely any efficiency" I lol'd hard at this. There's a request for the Ritualist healer just two sections up and seriously if you die your Monk is fucking bad anyway, not to mention you should be done within about 30 seconds max if your team is optimal. The A/E AP nuking variant is already on the main page. So learn to read before posting! Secondly, problems with the A/R Runner? Lol! Blame the player not the build. Also it's thrown up with the Ranger runner on the main page. "FFF is not about bringing cookie cutter builds, it's about getting as many people as you can to fill spots." Actually it's about both, using the best build for the job, and filling up slots. BTW, just for your information, I've been in both [any] and [dr] (Durkon Thunderstorm, current [dr] leader after Bishop left due to personal issues, is my oldest friend in GW who I actually invited into [any] alliance back when [GoDz] were within the alliance. {Want proof? Feel free to ask him.) and I know for a fact, from my time in [GoDz], [any], and [dr], that while sometimes there is room for some variations, like A/E, N/A, Rt/A etc, nothing short of optimal is reccomended for the run for the fastest times. If you was really in [any] you would already know this. Lastly, there's plenty of variants outside of optimal offered on the main page, and most of these builds were originally devised by [any], not PvX (which just stores the best known builds at the time of writing) which contradicts your whole arguement anyway. Selket Shadowdancer 08:22, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Well?
Now that vanquishing is faster. I don't see any reason to run this. --Thc 11:51, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * I would archive - Mc Tai [[Image:Tai_Recharge.png|19px]] 11:51, 20 November 2008 
 * Not everyone can do hm-- Shadow [[Image:Relyk Sig.gif]] 11:54, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * Because it's mindless farming. If you are ~10000 luxon faction off maxing the title, are you going to go Vanquish an area, or farm this for a little while? People will still farm. Completing books is a faster way to get rep in EotN, but people still farm rep. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 11:58, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * It's still a a valid and used option. No need to well in my opinion. Selket Shadowdancer 19:36, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * "Not everyone can do HM." That's a bullshit argument.  Not everyone can do Luxon Jade Arena FFF.  --Thc 23:08, 20 November 2008 (EST)
 * Getting to Cavalon is a lower requirement than completing Factions. With variation there's room for all proffessions in FFF. Selket Shadowdancer 04:22, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Completing factions isn't a requirement. Also, some areas are so easy to vanquish a caveman can do it.  I'm in a pretty large alliance (60 mill) and NO ONE does JA FFF - even before the update, too.  --Thc 11:27, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * That doesn't mean no one does it, most high level FFF alliances do FFF in some form or another. This is still used, no need to archive until it falls out of favour entirely. Also completing factions is a requirement if you want to do HM, unless you forgot about that. Lastly only one alliance at the moment has broken 60 million (that I can see on the map anyway) which is [any]. At time of writing teams still do FFF in the [any] alliance. Selket Shadowdancer 13:14, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * How do you Vanquish without completing factions and unlocking hard mode? - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 11:30, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * You do know completing ANY expansion and having a lvl 20 character unlocks hard mode for all campaigns?Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 11:31, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Uh, no, it only unlocks it for that campaign. I had to wait to play HM on Nightfall when I bought it until I completed Nightfall, I had HM in prophecies. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 11:32, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * gww:Hard_mode - [[Image:Panic_sig5.png]] 11:35, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Ah, I got mixed up apparently. Either way, completing factions on one character unlocks HM for HM right? That is faster than bringing every character to cavalon to HFFF anyway.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan [[image:lightningbolt_sig.jpg|19x19px]] 12:00, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Except... allegiance titles are party wide, so you only need to farm on one character... your elementalist/monk/ranger/assassin. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 12:57, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Or any other proffession, remember this is an optimal build, not a forced one. Selket Shadowdancer 13:20, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Ye, but you will find it easier to get into groups with those. I used to use my rit, but that only worked cause people knew me. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 13:26, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Most people who FFF do so in guild groups or are generally known by the FFF community that gathers in Jade Flats. I'm not disagreeing with you, but in another sense, in organized efforts, it isn't really an issue with good co-ordination. Selket Shadowdancer 15:12, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * Most people who FFF don't need a page on PvX wiki to tell them how to FFF ;o - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 15:15, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * By that logic nobody needs anything on PvX to tell them how to use anything as they can just get the information in game. So by that logic PvX is useless completely then. Selket Shadowdancer 15:28, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Wut? When did most turn into all? - Misery  Is  Friendly   15:29, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * My point exactly. Selket Shadowdancer 15:31, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * I don really get what point you were trying to make Selket. I said "It's hard to get into a group with anything other than the optimal", you said "But most are guild groups". In guild groups you can run whatever the fuck you want and they will let you in. If you are retarded they would have already kicked you out. If you haven't done it before they usually give you a build. If you come to PvX you probably are trying to pug FFF or a new guild trying to get FFFing for the first time. - Misery  Is  Friendly  [[image:Misery Dog obaby.gif|19px]] 15:34, 21 November 2008 (EST)
 * No, alot of people use PvX to point people into the direction of builds they can use in FFF. I've done it myself and know alot of other players tend to do so. Selket Shadowdancer 15:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

"Lastly only one alliance at the moment has broken 60 million (that I can see on the map anyway) which is [any]"
 * That is simply untrue. Several alliances broke 60 mil during the double faction weekend; #2 was stable at around 60 mil for a while.  I've been in several different alliances including #2 and #3, and NOT ONCE have I ever seen anyone Jade Arena FFF.  It simply isn't done from what I have seen.
 * Getting HM isn't difficult at all. You don't need to beat factions to do factions HM.
 * Getting a good group to do JA is WAY more difficult than finding a decent VFFF group. Vanqing is easier, more flexible, more profitable and faster.  --Thc 19:36, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Actually tbh now I have to agree. Most now are doing Mount Qinkai VFFF now. Selket Shadowdancer 00:51, 14 December 2008 (EST)

What about?
If u change teh eles for RoJ monks?

WELL
Archive, don't delete. Selket Shadowdancer 16:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)