User talk:Retired gwamm/Fire Imp Farmer

Why would you farm fire imps anyways? If you wanna try this concept in a more useful situation might I suggest Sacnoth Valley's Burning Forest.--ℜĭŧz ✔  02:08, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * imps dont do 100 damage a cast though--Relyk 04:33, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * yea but whats the point of farming them? --ℜĭŧz ✔  05:26, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Might consider taking 70AL82.72.100.252 11:16, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

r/rt spirit spamming can do this better, safer, and can be used in more areas. 72.183.202.229 00:14, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

r/rt spirit spam cannot do this better in HM...with this build you have perma IMS which makes it a much faster run, and I'm pretty sure the spirits would be decimated by the imp AoE in HM. It sounds as though you have not tried the build but are critiquing it anyway - I urge you to try the build before leaving non-sensical comments. 70 AL is a given, which is the ranger max AL, and remember rangers have inherent +30AL vs elemental, which is 100AL vs all hits from imps, and remember that IAU! adds an additional +24 AL, and pyrebound insignias add an additional +5-15AL depending on the armor piece - oh, and the shield is an additional +10 vs fire. So, you are running around with +139-154AL vs the fire imps at all times, although I think you max at 124AL or thereabouts given the game mechanics
 * Pyrebound insignia are always a +15 bonus, regardless of armor piece (and they only apply to hits at that armor location)... and you end up with 149 AL while IAU is up. Armor cap only applies to skill bonuses. Equipment armor bonuses aren't capped. Btw, Spirit Spammers can actually take care of the imps just fine if you don't put them all on one spot and you can take an IMS. Fire Imps are a pretty lousy farm regardless. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 17:08, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, the person who left the 70 AL comment said that when the build page itself said 60 AL. Check history more. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 17:09, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

the point of the farm, like any other, is for special items specific to the farm, in this case - glowing hearts for halloween collectible (party points), charcoal (for d-steel), scales, ele tomes specifically. Other stuff you get like any other farm in HM, +1's on locked chests, and gold drops. I will bet that I can finish a run faster with this build in HM than anybody using a Ranger/Rt spirit spammer.
 * This probably is faster than a spirit spammer for the imps. I just don't think it's worth it to farm fire imps with this when a spirit spammer (or other builds) can farm in the UW and FoW. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 17:36, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyway, why Dwarven Stability? Storm Chaser is already maintainable without it at 16 WS. Surely there's a better PvE skill available. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 17:39, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

good point on the maintanable stormchaser at 16WS Toraen, silly me I didn't realize that. So I'll throw a variant in there. I suppose any damage skill would work in its place, such as EVAS or an Asuran summon if you've a high enough EV/Asuran rank to make it worthwhile, or Snowstorm as the imps are vulnerable to cold damage (although the AoE might cause scatter in a big mob). Anyway, thanks for the input. Btw, I don't get the logic of saying that a spirit spammer would work better because it can do FOW/UW (which a R/Rt cannnot in HM - you won't make it out of the chamber in UW or past the first mob in FOW) - the point of a specific build is to effectively perform a specific farm, which is the point of the build....a general all-purpose NM farming build such as a R/Rt spirit spammer is good for just that, however specific builds will do specific farms much better as in this case. A ranger is not known for HM solo builds - the point of the pvxwiki is to promulgate certain build ideas so that others will learn (and profit) from them in the same manner that the build creator has done.
 * Sign and indent comments please. Also, the spirit spammer page says it CAN do HM for UW and FoW. I won't discuss the validity of that here, but it supposedly is supported by the discussion thread on GWguru (that is linked on the build page). Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 18:19, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

The point here is that this build was once good, but has since been history/replaced/trashed because is was only good for a few areas that at the time was worth farming but isnt now. 72.183.202.229 22:49, December 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * that makes no sense...the build is good, still works, and has not been history/replaced/trashed - unless you care to show where it was put...it's still worth farming with - if what you are farming for is charcoal, ele tomes, scales or glowing hearts...I use the build all the time and am thankful people still put builds like this on pvx, really not much out there for a ranger to solo in HM...spirit spamming is mad boring and is not very good for SOLO HM farming at a max of 12 in the rit attributes

I'm a little butt-hurt
By KJ's ratings on the build...a '2' for effectiveness? Just because you don't like the farm (or the build, or the build maker?) does not mean that it's not effective...as an admin I would think that you would lead by example in rating builds true to the wiki guidelines, but meh. The build should definitely not be in the 'trash' as there are a plethora of less effective builds being used for even less exciting farms.QQ Retired gwamm 18:13, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm allowed to vote how I want; however, if you'd like to make an intelligent argument as to why this is worth doing then I may reconsider my vote. But seriously...what do fire imps drop that's worth my time? Karate [[File:Candy!.png]]Jesus <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:16, 14 December 2009
 * You're right...I guess. But riddle me this - Why does the vetting policy state the following:


 * "Effectiveness: This criterion describes how effectively the build does what it was designed for. That is, how much damage does a spiker build deal, a healer build heal or a protector build prevent? How good is the chance to get through the specified area with a running build or to reach and defeat the specified foes with a farming build?
 * Note that this criterion is not efficiency. It describes only the performance of the build, and does not compare this to the player's effort required to use it or to acquire the needed skills and items";


 * and,


 * "A vote must constitute an objective judgment of the build's qualities. It must not be biased by sympathy or any other prejudice regarding the author. This applies in particular to votes given by authors themselves or their friends. Votes that deliberately overshoot in favoring or unfavoring a build in order to 'compensate' another vote are not acceptable either"?


 * It seems as though everyone voted at least 4 for effectiveness - could you please elaborate with some justifcation on why you voted only 2? kthx  Retired gwamm 18:32, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * You just kthx'd an admin while you brag to him with your superior knowledge of the vetting policy in practice. -- -©#@o$- (talk) -- 18:35, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * You want to quote policy? Ok...
 * "Administrators, once promoted, are considered fully autonomous. As a result, Administrators may utilize their powers as they see fit. While this may seem dangerous, it has proven an effective strategy as evinced by the success of GuildWiki. As they put it, "[the policy] allows incredibly quick resolution of the vast majority of issues. Further, because the Administrator's character is well-known before his promotion, abuses of administrator power simply do not happen.""


 * The last part is a little lol, but still...admins are allowed discretion concerning policies and if you take former precident into account, then I have a TON of fucking discretion.
 * But I'll be polite and ask again. What do Fire imps drop that's worth farming? I could easily make a build for farming lvl 3 grawl in NM and it be 100% effective. Should that build get vetted? <font color="crimson" face="trajan pro">Karate [[File:Candy!.png]]<font color="darkgreen" face="trajan pro">Jesus <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:45, 14 December 2009
 * Indeed :> But mostly when Big or someone says he abuses adminship, it's some level of self-irony -- -©#@o$- (talk) -- 18:49, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * @chaos - 'kthx' is just a fragment of the internet lexicon coined with the intent of saving keystrokes, not an implicit insult as you seem to be insinuating - my apologies to KJ if it was taken that way..@KJ - thanks for admin role explanation, I hadn't ventured that far into the wiki policy yet. But, users should not be made to feel that they are walking on eggshells should they run into a disagreement with an Admin. Given the seemingly totalitarianistic admin rights policy that wiki expounds, it seems as though there is a veiled threat of ban should a user find themselves in such a disagreement.  Perhaps I could have framed my question(s) in a less obtrusive manner, but I'm still taken aback by what I feel are incongruencies abounding on this wiki.  Retired gwamm 19:19, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Just answer KJ's questions, all this policy stuff is irrelevent anyway since PvX is a very, very unfair place to the majority of users. - [[Image:Porororroro lau.gif]] <font color="Black">Athrun <font color="Black">Feya - 19:31, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Retired, you should check the rest of the policy. Admins are to take discretion when banning someone they're involved with (or not do it at all). If you're implying that I am, in any way, veiling a threat toward you, then you are very mistaken. You should read this part of the policy:
 * "Further, because the Administrator's character is well-known before his promotion..."


 * We are promoted/demoted based on our character. Now, if you're arguing that there are inconsistencies on this wiki, then I will agree with you 100%. But the reason for that is because wikis are run by people and people are often inconsistent. We do our best not to be, but that doesn't mean we can prevent it.
 * However, I will ask you one final time (to be polite). What do fire imps drop that is worth farming? I'm assuming you haven't answered because you know that they drop nothing of value. If that is true, then you sir are the one who is inconsistent.
 * To summarize, I'll answer my rhetorical question from earlier. "I could easily make a build for farming lvl 3 grawl in NM and it be 100% effective, but should that build get vetted?" No, obviously it shouldn't. I'm sure it's effectiveness should be 5 based on policy; however, it's for farming lvl 3 grawls. That's just not worth hosting on our site. <font color="crimson" face="trajan pro">Karate [[File:Candy!.png]]<font color="darkgreen" face="trajan pro">Jesus <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">19:36, 14 December 2009
 * Your question is - What do fire imps drop that is worth farming? - I tried to answer it in the build description and notes section of the original build page: which are glowing hearts (used for halloween consumables at 2:1), charcoal (useful for making d-steel which makes good money on trade-in), scales (for certain armor and consumables), elemental tomes, +1's on locked chests (1-2 per run), and golds. That is plenty to farm for, and the hearts alone are a good enough reason to farm them during halloween.  Just perusing the "great" builds I see the following:  N/A Rilohn Refuge farmer which kills veldt nephilia (special drops? none) and Zehlenun for his crappy green bow, presumably.  Not much of a farm, and on the off-chance that he actually drops his bow, you would be lucky to get 1k for it; next, we have the P/Mo Dead Sword farmer which farms dime-a-dozen, unwanted, inscribable dead bows (great? not so much); elsewhere on the list I see the E/Me Vaettir Farmer to farm worthless golds and possibly holiday items, glacial stones, and norn points, an actually worthwhile farm in that respect, but a farm is a farm and the point of wiki, in my estimation, is to give readers the opportunity to advance their knowledge of specific farms for specific items.  One could always argue, just run a sin and dungeon run until you have the gold you need to buy whatever you would specifically farm for...if everybody did that then there wouldn't be much need for wiki, imo.  The E/A Rajazan farmer was given a "great" rating, when one could just buy his green by farming for an ecto (and buying two or three of his greens!).  Just a few examples of what I see as inconsistent vetting and irrational basis for build justification.  This is just not the button mash kill em all in 30 sec mindless farming that wiki seems to want to have "worth hosting on our site".  Oh and btw, I don't feel that you were veiling a threat toward me (or anybody else), but I can see now that I'm stepping on a few toes.  Take care. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Retired gwamm (talk &bull; contribs) 21:54, December 14, 2009 (UTC).
 * Meh, you make some valid points. I'll change my vote on that basis. <font color="crimson" face="trajan pro">Karate [[File:Candy!.png]]<font color="darkgreen" face="trajan pro">Jesus <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:54, 14 December 2009

Even if this build doesn't provide as much money as other builds, it is really easy to learn giving players that are a little bit skill challanged a way to farm. Also it is fun to change up what farm your doing every once in a while