Archive talk:E/Rt RtL Ancestors' Rage Spiker/Archive 1

Discussion
I started putting this build together last night after becoming somewhat bored with all the usual Elementalist spike builds. I had a lot of fun with it. The usual "OMG IT'S SO HORRIBLE" comments need not apply. I'd like good critical discussion to see if the build's fallacies can be corrected. Suffice to say, within minutes of using it last night I saw a few other Elementalists copying it and giving it a try. --Maximusmmiv 20:20, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * On second thought, Lightning Bolt or Lightning Strike would be a much better choice than Shock. There's just way too much exhaustion going on. --Maximusmmiv 20:23, 30 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Further changes have been made. Glyph of Elemental Power and Air Attunement have been dismissed and replaced with Ice Prison and Glyph of Lesser Energy. This will provide for better energy management among all types of magic as well as help lock the target down in the Spirit Rift. I'm also using Lightning Touch to combine with Ice Prison, so Lightning Bolt/Strike has been dismissed as well. --Maximusmmiv 02:30, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

Uhhh, flawed concept. Ancestor's Rage will hit before Ride the Lightning teleports. And most people have about 580 health, making this spike pretty bad, not to mention 30 second cooldown. ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  19:29, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * I agree, tried it, Rage triggered before I got the shadow step. Good try though.--DarkEnzanArikado 19:33, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

Too bad the whole Ancestors' Rage+Ride The Lighting part doesnt work (as stated above). Otherwise we would've had a use for Iron Mist! And the awesome Grasping Earth for escaping, of course ;p Skuld wouldve liked that xD -StarSeeker 23:26, 31 August 2007 (CEST)

About Ancestors' Rage not working...
I can get Ancestors' Rage and Ride the Lightning to hit together without fail. I know for a fact that it works, I've done it a few hundred times since I posted this build. Maybe the +20 Enchantments mod has to do with it? --Maximusmmiv 23:47, 31 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Okay, I tested the spike with and without the +20% enchanting mod. It does not work without the mod. I'll update the build to reflect the mod as an absolute necessity. --Maximusmmiv 06:46, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

He's right. It does work with the mod :) Although i think Iron Mist would be a better snare. You would just need to get something else instead of Lightning Touch. Viet talk  . 18:35, 2 September 2007 (CEST)
 * So how about the bar I suggesed up there ^ then? Lacks a bit of damage though. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  17:40, 3 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Grasping Earth wouldn't be an improvement over Ice Prison. Iron Mist would, provided that the lightning damage from both the Elementalist and Ritualist spells can still get through. All of this aside, the biggest problem is still energy management. The exhaustion just really ruins the build, and there's no way to deal with it. Ride the Lightning shouldn't cause exhaustion in the first place. It's pretty much a useless skill because of it. --Maximusmmiv 18:25, 3 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Grasping earth wasnt for the main snare, thats why there is Iron Mist in it. Did you actually look at the bar? :\ Anyway, Grasping is there for getting away and kiting in general. - Star  Seeker  |  My talk  20:40, 3 September 2007 (CEST)

The spike is pretty good. It basically kills a target with around 80% HP. However it is too easily countered. Once a monk is hit/killed by it once, they can see it coming. A smart monk would use Protective Spirit/Spirit Bond the next time he sees Icy Prison. Viet talk  . 01:42, 4 September 2007 (CEST)
 * WTF why is iron mist in there now? ice/teinais prison is better because it triggers the damage from lightning touch...&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 04:11, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * EDIT: :D didn't see that it was switched to lightning bolt. my bad :D&mdash;[[Image:Cheese Slaya's Sig.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 04:12, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

WHY DOES THIS WORK?!?!?! 1 second * 1.2 = 1.2 second duration on ancestors' rage. .75 seconds aftercast + 1 second cast time on Ride the Lightning = this shouldnt be working... ---  Ressmonkey   (talk)  04:35, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * RtL has no aftercast. —ǥrɩɳsɧ ƿoɲ  〚[[Image:Shield of Deflection.jpg|19px]]〛 04:36, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Dunno why it works, but it's insanely fun to do to people even though the energy management sucks. --Maximusmmiv 08:48, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * And I wasnt talking about the RtL aftercast, I was talking about the Ancestors' Rage aftercast. --- [[Image:Monk-icon-Ressmonkey.JPG|15px]] Ressmonkey   (talk)  13:24, 5 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I must agree, this is insanely fun. I like the effect of Iron Mist too. No running from Spirit Rift for them. &mdash; Azaya 20:53, 6 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I prefer Ice Prison and to finish off with lightning touch. This kills quickly for hardly any energy and leavesthe target open for other damage while you do.  Also people hardly ever escape from spirit rift with a 66% decrease anyways.

the reason why this works
is because 1s*1.2 = 2s, not 1.2s. Duh :p--Thc 07:18, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

Vetting
Two users come along and give it all 0's? That's not an accurate reflection of the build's scores. In these discussions, we've tried to find ways to compensate for the build's failures, but we can't. It's doomed to be a mediocre build, not a terrible build. --Maximusmmiv 18:55, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

Erm, this build now has a rating of above 2,5. Its not unfavored anymore, until someone likes to support the two all 0's, and drop it under 2,5 rating again... Timinator 16:39, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

About the variant that was posted
It's not really feasible to have "a more exhaustion-heavy" version of this build. The build is already way too exhaustive as it is, and it would be ridiculous to recommend another skill that causes exhaustion. Using Shock with this build is just not possible. I've removed the variant. -Maximusmmiv 20:03, 8 October 2007 (CEST)