Build talk:Mo/any PvE Ray of Judgment

It might be better to put this with the hero version, but we really need something. -- Jai . -  18:26, September 25 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought the old Mo/Me version with illusion magic AoE spells we had was pretty good for damage Smity Smitington 18:34, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That thing was fucking terrible. You should already be running with an illusion mes, and 10-12 spec'd clumsiness/WE with no FC to reduce the recharges and cast times is just bad. -- Jai . -  18:51, September 25 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, side note but related to this as well, what do you think of snow storm + EBSoH? It seems to be decent spammable AoE, trying to figure out if it would be a good option here or on the AP monk page Smity Smitington 18:57, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It requires two PvE slots (so it's unlikely you'd get it to work well with AP) and doesn't EBSoH won't help any of your other spells, but it's not too bad I guess. Might be worth a variant in the AP build. -- Jai . -  19:02, September 25 2011 (UTC)
 * and do u think EBSoW would be good here? Smity Smitington 19:07, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ya, lemme add. -- Jai . -  19:08, September 25 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised the Mo/Me was deleted. Build:Mo/any Smiter Hero covers the hero. Who cares about cast times and recharge rates, it's cheap AoE damage during RoJ downtime. You have nothing better to points in than that, especially when Arcane Echo is the only decent choice.-- Relyk 20:28, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Except AE really isn't as good as it first seems. It eats up 15 energy at the start of a battle, and unless you get HSR on RoJ, you only get an extra cast every 50 seconds. And honestly, RoJ + Smite Condy/Hex is generally plenty of AoE, since running RoJ is only really strong if you've got balled foes and you don't need more than a few hundred AoE damage to supplement your heroes' damage. Not to mention having 3 2-sec casts is really annoying. -- Jai . -  21:26, September 25 2011 (UTC)
 * Just spec in inspiration and bring Auspicious Incantation. Bye bye energy problems from AE-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  22:03, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * [Wasted two slots] - more importantly though you're standing in position in front of a mob with 3 seconds of casting BEFORE RoJ. bad idea. -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain  Alex  22:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * AE is terrible even without the energy cost. If this isn't for a hero, why is SoL not mainbar? Please remove Arcane Echo needs to gtfo optionals. GoLE>AI.  Ӎiñon Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 22:07, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * So what's better than a second roj at the start of each battle?-- Relyk 04:40, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Rupts, party support, SoL, Fall Back, Heal Party or random PvE skills (yes, not all of those are for the start). 35e and locking secondary profession for a second RoJ isn't so effective, unless you're farming. Ӎiñon Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 04:49, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * and lol 1rv on roland? srs... Ӎiñon Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 04:53, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say this probably needs its own page since the hero version is elite-variant and more specific. Merging would be pretty messy given the huge number of optionals listed for both. Symeon 00:06, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Wait a sec..are you saying I broke 1rv? Roland 06:46, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Just because Relyk wants to keep AE... Ӎiñon Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 08:23, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It wasn't really 1RV, but whatever. Consensus hasn't been made, there's three people for and three against. It's not absolutely amazing, but for certain situations AE can be useful. It's not mainbar, but it shouldn't be excluded from optionals. -- Jai . -  11:15, September 26 2011 (UTC)
 * Three people for being you and relyk..? Roland 14:27, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Now arcane echo + seed of life I'd say is a winner :p -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] Chieftain  Alex  12:47, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Still the same problem of SoL taking 20 seconds to recharge and AE only lasting 20 seconds. RoJ would actually be better to copy because it would be affected by the 40/40 set, thus giving a decent chance of being able to use the echo'd RoJ twice, whereas SoL would have at most a 20% chance recharge, and that's if you switch to a staff. Not to mention multiple copies of Seed is hardly ever needed. Even in DoA (excluding Trenchway), you mainly just need it for the initial aggro and then regular heals should do the trick. I'd rather have Double Dream Beams myself. -- Jai . -  14:09, September 26 2011 (UTC)
 * Excluded removed it, jai reverted, then you reverted jai. Regardless, Arcane Echo is commonly used with RoJ, it doesn't matter how many people think it's bad. Excluded, stop being an autist.-- Relyk 16:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

fail
this page is full of it. Can we get a consensus on merging with hero RoJ? There's no difference to this apart from PvE skills which I don't think warrants a new page.  PermaSwag    22:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree. [[Image:They.jpg|36px|link=User:They]] 22:43, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The consensus is to split any pages with hero and player builds. Why people would want to merge them, I have no idea.-- Relyk 23:20, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Organization. <3 -jī·gō·dǔ -  23:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC)