Build talk:D/any Avatar of Dwayna Support Hero

If derv cant manage energy with aod, probably switch back to arcane zeal.-- Relyk  talk  09:46, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Doesn't AoD only trigger on Dervish Enchantments? If so there's not really any synergy with Orders. Nvm, you noted that. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 09:54, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The main idea is spamming mystic healing, so its not a big deal. It might have to be changed to arcane zeal since eremite's zeal is supposedly not used by heroes-- Relyk  talk  10:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * then slap on whirling strike or some non spec'ed flash enchant, problem solved with fairly high mystic and meditation like some other dwayna build. 96.13.53.78 16:02, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Swap Imbue or Vow of Piety for blood magic skill of choice. Kirzath 03:43, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Do heroes use Pious Renewal well? Because from what I've seen the AI for the new skills is pretty mediocre atm...and party healing in the AoD build will be pretty scarce, there's not a whole lot of flash spamming. Cosky 04:03, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Effectiveness
D/N orders has been terrible ever since the healing was nerfed with the Pious skill. No longer are allies healed when you lose an enchantment, so the bar is as bad as it ever was after that specific nerf. N/x Orders all the way. Minion  09:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Necro fanboy Rikk Panda 00:21, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

It's a nice build indeed and in some situations it might even be superior to the necro variant because this has more healing and supportBrave Lord 18:29, 3 March 2011 (UTC) [build prof=n/d soul=6+1 blood=12+1+3 wind=11][vow of piety][Cultists Fervor][order of pain][dark fury][mystic healing][blood bond][signet of lost souls][optional][/build] /cough Smity Smitington 19:10, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * pretty much-- Relyk  talk  19:19, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, definitely giving that a spin. Kirzath 14:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Added variants to N/any orders page. Don't see why you would ever want to use D/N. Smity Smitington 20:51, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * SoMS in the last slot would be awesome for instant orders, seeing as there's already high wind spec. Cosky 21:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Don't see why you would ever want to use N/D. Life Guardian 22:34, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ^above, if eremite's zeal is screwed up, energy would be iffy-- Relyk  talk  23:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * hot damn, do heroes actually use eremite's? edit: wait, so you're adding 1 enchantment to heal the party every 6 seconds, and potentially 1 more to heal it every 10s? it seems like a stretch for Dervish primary, unless you have other dervishes casting enchants on you. Rikk Panda 00:50, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The last slot needs to be another shortlasting enchantment, relyk is just bad. That puts 1 enchant on a 6 second recharge, 1 on a 10, and one on a 15, as well as mystic healing every 5 seconds. Life Guardian 02:06, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * only options are fleeting stability, conviction, and attacker's insight; the only viable option is fleeting stability unless the hero will spam conviction. hence my theorycraft is totally perfect because it's in optionals.-- Relyk  talk  02:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Signet of Pious Light
Why is there a variant with Pious Renewal and a no-spec Signet of Pious Light? Why is it any good? Kirzath 11:48, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 75% recharge; plus I offers decent heals at no cost if willing to spec 6+ points. --96.240.34.47 22:15, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Arcane Orders Variant: Rune Usage
Just in case someone's curious about rune usage on the Arcane Orders variant build (2 superiors), I figure I'd mention my logic behind that here. The rune setup listed reaches notable breakpoints for Meditation, Arcane Zeal and Vow of Piety, for one. Additionally, since that build doesn't have foe-targeting skills, the hero should be kept in the back, so their low health doesn't matter anyway. The low health also comes in handly for letting the build be self-sufficient at healing since regen from Vow of Piety and Mystic Healing spam can take care of the health loss from orders-spam. 70.27.30.138 21:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Fleeting Stability
Why is this on the main bar, along with the dedicated Earth Prayers stats, and an Earth Prayers rune to boot? I kind of thought that maybe it was there as a disposable flash enchant to grant party-wide heals, like Whirling Charge is. But then, why waste stat points in Earth Prayers and extend the duration of the enchant if the point is to get healing out fast? Why not let it expire in the skill's default time period of one second, for the quick heal from AoD? The anti-KD, maybe? There are other skills you could slap onto the main bar here in place of this skill, I'm not sure how it's really essential to the build's function. Especially if you're dedicating more attribute points to Wind Prayers, making Whirling Charge (also on the bar) better for movement speed increases. --BuildKitten 23:11, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The Wind Prayers points are for Mystic Healing. Whirling Charge will end because heroes autoattack in guard mode. I have no idea why earth prayers has a rune for this though. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 00:00, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Followup on move tag
Agreed. Any reason why this shouldn't be a hero-only build? &mdash;  skakid  05:08, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's seems to be naming convention to append Hero to hero builds, go for it-- Relyk 05:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Skill update
Shouldn't affect it much, purpose of it isn't to pump hex removal. Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx 23:36, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually misread the update at first too. Yeah, it should be fine. -- Toraen   confer  23:41, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Some comments and suggestions
Whydirt (talk) 23:20, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Harrier's Haste over Mirage Cloak because AFAIK the PBAoE damage flash enchantments tend to cause Dervishes to run into melee range; I've not tested Mirage Cloak specifically, so maybe it's except from that bit of AI?
 * Attunement Runes over Vitae. With all the extra AR from Mysticism and the Dervish's +25 bonus innate health, this character is going to be the lowest priority mid- or backline target in almost any hero team. The extra energy cushion is more likely to be useful than 30 extra health in most scenarios.
 * I don't like points in Wind/Earth Prayers or the 40/20/20 here as you generally want the enchantments to end as soon as possible. I prefer a +30 health suffix on the staff; I know I just said that the health isn't as useful as energy in the previous bullet point, but it's the best remaining option. Honestly, I just run with a Kersh's Staff or equivalent (the unique Shadow Staves work great here) instead of a specific set of casting time prefixes because I want the flexibility to change the secondary profession utility skills.
 * Would it be worthwhile for me to write-up the math on how much healing this actually provides to add to the page? It's roughly equivalent to +10-12 regen for your whole team, and given how tanky this character is on its own and the bonus of two utility slots that can have 12 attribute points backing them up, I think it's underrated as a backline option.
 * 1) We'll have to test it. If mirage cloak is among these skills (I can't remember whether it is) harrier's haste as a replacement would definitely make sense. Unless attacker's insight is affected aswell... in which case we could aswell keep mirage cloak and accept this side of the build's nature.
 * 2) Neither rune makes this build noticeably better, but it's true: This dervish is both a hard target and has more health points than most other current builds. In longer combat situations or against mild energy denial the attunement runes might prove to be more effective in the mid term.
 * 3) When played by a hero there's no benefit in the enchantments ending faster. Even with some points in earth and wind prayers and the duration bonus from the staff (at least 1 second) these enchantments are going to run out before they're recharged even when the 20%HRT from the staff triggers. The healing over time is the same, just the very first healing sets in a second later. As it is untargeted anyway it shouldn't be an issue. Instead, you get a few seconds of neat enchantment bonus effects and a slightly longer lasting weakness.
 * 4) Sounds good, but it would probably best to keep it concise. I think the note that on average the healing amounts to an equivalent of ~10-12 regeneration (20-24 health points per second) would already suffice. Although the 24hp/second are unlikely to ever happen due to heroes not spamming enchantments properly. 24.73hp/s would be the ideal healing without staff triggers. Hero inefficiency and casting times of utility skills (very different depending on your choice) will lower this, in some cases like the order bar probably noticeably.
 * Might be a bit underrated for minion master teams, but it won't replace BiP heal/communing prot and ideally you can drop the arbitrary third backline character in most areas so this hero wouldn't end up in the team anyway. But it's definitely an option if you want to play it safely. I should give it some more tests myself. --Krschkr (talk) 04:22, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) Test result: I took such a dervish with me in Forgewight HM (alongside a ritual lord prot and an arcane echo domination signet mesmer... keep it efficient! :D) and neither of the used flash enchantments made the hero run into melee range. Test bar: OgOk8wqyqwyz7d+igVvcXyN6WLC. However, there was an entirely different and quite unexpected issue with mirage cloak: The hero didn't use it a single time in the entire dungeon. At least I didn't see it on recharge a single time, and I watched that hero's bar a lot. I'll replace it with Harrier's Haste on the build page. I also asked one of my guild members to take the hero with shield of absorption over mirage cloak instead of his prot hero in his standard team with bone fiends to see how noticeable the healing is on their survival and number. Might work out quite well, but let's wait for his results! --Krschkr (talk) 15:52, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

BiP
[build prof=Dervish/Necro Mysticism=10+1+2 WindPrayers=11+2 EarthPrayers=6+2 Blood=8][Blood is Power][Blood Bond][Dark Fury][Mystic Healing][Watchful Intervention][Mystic Regeneration][Meditation][Eremite's Zeal][/build] 40/20/20 blood staff

I don't have a necro hero yet on my new character, and I wanted BiP. This is what I came up with. Im a warrior, so dark fury. Works for any adren user tho. You could take Order of Pain alternatively, but long cast time conflicts with BiPing. Dark fury synergizes with mystic healing and can be spammed with meditation. Good party healing/prot with mystic healing + Watchful intervention; hero will probably use WI on itself though because life sac, which is fine. Mystic Regeneration is for self heals; hero will always have max regen. Can be replaced by something else, such as vow of piety, which trades more regen for armor. Imo more regen is better because double life sac spells. Imbue health seems promising, but is energy intensive; and doesn't synergize well.

Another one that worked well was E/N with BiP, blood bond, eruption, ward vs melee, optional earth spell, earth attune, aura of resto, resto glyph. great support vs melee attackers and big self heals. Could also do fire magic. However, ele heros have better damage options than dervish, so dervish bip it is. Works really well so far. Willarddog (talk) 16:12, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Mysticism Utility
I added Imbue Health & Watchful Intervention as Mysticism utility optionals. IDK why they were not there before, as they are great redbar up spells. Willarddog (talk) 15:06, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Iirc heroes use watchful intervention poorly. --Krschkr (talk) 17:27, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Based on my own experience they use it pretty well. I know it has been better since the 2019 hero AI update, heros now cast it on allies under 50% HP. I've used it consistently on 3 fake mesmer dervish heros (arguably the best fake mesmer due to free mysticism armor) going through a pseudo-iron nightfall run, and they've been using it great. I also ran a D/N BiP party healer (build posted above) on Mox before I got a proper necro, and he used it very well then too. Willarddog (talk) 11:53, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah! If it was part of the AI update and is now used properly it certainly deserves a spot on this page. --Krschkr (talk) 12:24, 11 April 2021 (UTC)