Archive talk:R/W Bunny Thumper

Discussion
This build is still used rather commonly. --Mgrinshpon (C/T) 01:26, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * I-blow sucks. - Auron 01:28, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * /Agree Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 02:11, 23 May 2007 (CEST)
 * thinking of another good hammer skill... That Mighty one? '~\^/~' Napalm Flame  [[Image:Napalm_Flame_Sig_Image.JPG‎]] (talk)(contributions) 00:20, 2 June 2007 (CEST)

If this build is unfavored, make a thumper build that is, 'cause it's still commonly used and we have a total of 0. --   03:10, 4 June 2007 (CEST)

I am going to archive this, not unfavor. I-blow was used for w/e reason, and this is how it was run. Readem (talk *pvxcontribs ) 21:50, 5 June 2007 (CEST)


 * Damage on it was nerfed as was recharge. Used to be 4 second recharge I think.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ 〚₮/ḉ〛 06:10, 23 July 2007 (CEST)

Un-archive
Not only is it the HA meta, energy isn't a problem with some careful management and less spamming. How about we dump I-blow for bull's or an optional, and put this back into testing. Tycn 15:20, 1 August 2007 (CEST)


 * Why not just take a look at the current meta and rewrite this to be similar? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 15:46, 1 August 2007 (CEST)

1 goddamn skill change was all that was needed to take out of archive. some people are too retarted to run RaO and they blame the build on their stupidity. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 03:32, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

oh, if someone exp w/ the thumper could change the atts would be appreciated. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 05:09, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

In HA, people dont have I-blow and put EoE, Energetizing Winds or Toxiticy/Fertile Season, depending on used team build. I think that alone, in RA, this should use EoE and can spam RaO without worrying about energy. Just worry when spirit is over/killed. &mdash; Abedeus   22:55, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

equipment
instead of radiant, why not take a major/sup rune to decrease RaO cost or increase duration, and take survivors to compensate?--Thc 21:18, 8 August 2007 (CEST)
 * Major and superior runes are deadly, that 35 health and 75 health is not worth the little damage or 2-4 seconds you get. Health is very important, more important than armor as the nowadays spikes used in PvP can hit through armor and total more than 600 damage.
 * Or how about scavenger strike... Odin The King 02:27, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Vote
Wrong on every point? Since EW is not on the main bar ill take that out, but i feel the vote is justified. "Deals good reliable pressure with a moderate spike capacity" that sounds about right. "RaO uses alot of energy" to perma maintain it would be using more than 3 pips of energy regen, which would be more than you could maintain, not even using other skills. Innovation speaks for itself.Bob fregman 21:01, 7 September 2007 (CEST)
 * RaO isn't that hard to maintain between expertise and a zealous hammer, if you absolutely have to use one. Even so, how can another team take advantage of your high energy? Innovation... Well, ok, I can't fault you on it, but innovation is really just there to be there. If most of the wiki (at least, most of the wiki that I know) had its way, it would be gone, because innovation doesn't affect how good a build is. Generally innovation votes should be ranked about the way the other two are for consistency, but I can't fault you for dropping it. Either way, vote gone. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 22:38, 7 September 2007 (CEST)
 * I think my vote is fair, it would qualify for the "good" category, if it werent for innovation, which is the systems problem not mine.Bob fregman 07:23, 8 September 2007 (CEST)
 * Did you even read what I wrote? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 05:47, 12 September 2007 (CEST)

rampaging thumper in AB
I've seen this build a lot in AB, is it just me or the build is useless in AB.--Dark Paladin X 16:52, 23 September 2007 (CEST)


 * Well, it does damage.... -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 01:59, 24 September 2007 (CEST)


 * It can be a pretty useful build actually. I use a Bunny Thumper build often in AB, and so far, as long as you are smart in who you attack, you really do well. Just make sure you through in a healing for yourself. Put in brutal strike as a second pet attack, and you are pretty much ready to take on any spellcasters. 71.80.239.27 05:52, 29 October 2007 (CET)

Suggestion for Optional Slot
I was doing some test rounds in RA and just for fun I decided to throw in Grapple as an optional skill. It worked pretty well, for your opponent is almost certainly Dazed, and its way quicker than waitingfor Hammer Bash to do the job. I would like to hear your comments on this and maybe we can add this to Variants? Dark Morphon 18:04, 5 October 2007 (CEST)
 * I would use Wild Blow (removing stances + critical hit) and instead of ressurection signet, Companionship (for healing). I recommend this for Alliance Battles. -someone--83.102.80.125 21:42, 23 October 2007 (CEST)
 * Wild Blow? Nah, I think Irresistible Blow would be better suited as you're guaranteed a hit (if they put up anti-melee like they usually do). --Eyekwah 14:35, 3 December 2007 (CET)

Bull's Strike anyone? KD locks ftw
 * I agree with dark morphon, I tried Grapple today in RA and it was pretty good for adding daze right away. 65.78.6.239 23:22, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

New Skill Choices
With Eotn out and new skills available, i would take out Crushing Blow for Pulverizing Smash. Because this skill also adds weakness, there a couple of new variants available too.

If you want more damage, use Fierce Blow in the optional spot. If you are having energy problems, then add Auspicious Blow to the optional slot. Either way the damage output is increased and you can cause weakness. I still haven't looked into which condition is added first with Pulverizing though, if anyone knows.

All of these proposed skills are adrenaline based to save energy. Let me know what you think Kwiet Oblivion 03:23, 10 October 2007 (CEST)


 * I think Hammer Bash makes you lose all adrenaline, unfortunately. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 03:38, 10 October 2007 (CEST)


 * Ahh that it does. Kind of overlooked that.  back to the old drawing board.Kwiet Oblivion 01:46, 12 October 2007 (CEST)

Survivability in RA
I've encountered some serious survivability issues in RA. I'd like to suggest putting Heal as One in as an alternative to Rampage as one. However, I don't know. 141.157.22.62 20:58, 3 January 2008 (EST)


 * No, RaO is this build. &mdash; [[Image:ViYsig5.jpg|19px]]Victoryisyours (talk /RfA ) 21:00, 3 January 2008 (EST)


 * Want survivability, sync with a monk.  Mike Tycn ( punch   out )  21:02, 3 January 2008 (EST)
 * Survivability: They can't kill you if you kill them first! Pluto 21:04, 3 January 2008 (EST)
 * Exactly. This build is still pretty effing spectacular in RA tbh. --71.229 21:18, 3 January 2008 (EST)
 * no self healing at all? and your best offer to help this out is "sync with a monk"??? are you effing retarded? if you end up in a group with no healers you die. death = bad. relying on another character that may or may not be in your group = bad build imo... [[Image:Migraine.jpg|19px]] Nevermore616 01:02, 24 March 2008 (EDT)


 * That makes 90% of the builds on this site bad. Play some real PvP imo - RA is a horrible way to judge things. -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 14:08, 31 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Add some points in WS and take Trolls for RA. It helps. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.237.229.16 (contribs).
 * Or not. The survivability is fine. The build doesn't need self healing. Besides, it's RA. The whole point is to keep entering until you get a decent group and then roll crappy groups until you get to TA and then get your ass handed to you by people with a cohesive build and Vent. - PANIC!  [[Image:panic_sig3.gif|20px]]  pewpewpew!  06:55, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
 * I think killing stuff fast is all the survivability I need. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  07:20, 31 March 2008 (EDT)


 * Bad habit to fall into. You're not always going to run into ideal conditions. (The fact that the enemy team exists makes for unideal conditions.) -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 14:08, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Lol stupid noobs think RA is about staying alive. If you would spend half as much time trying to survive and healing yourself as you spent killing people you could take down 3 in the time it takes for them to kill you. Why can't people see both ends of the spectrum? Do massive damage before you go down and you don't need a self-heal. Do you think you're the first person whos tried "heal as one" as the elite in a thumper build instead of RaO? I laugh my ass off when I see this. They might as well resign and save me the trouble these healer thumpers. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wingflier (contribs).

I run...
Much easier on the e-management in RA or AB--Relyk 22:17, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
 * 10 + 1 + 2 Expertise
 * 10 + 1 Beast Mastery
 * 11 Hammer Mastery
 * Ya i agree. i run similar to this as well. it helps keep RaO up more. Zarka 19:14, 22 March 2008 (EDT)


 * 59 damage crits too. &mdash;  Skakid  19:17, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Bleh, show that you are a man and play it with the attributes that are now. God  box   11:15, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Eh, I guess the rune suicide is understandable if you don't have EW... -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 14:06, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Build:R/W Bunny Thumper/Archive|R/W Bunny Thumper/Archive
Where did the build go? Now there's just some stupid comments, and if you check history you will see there was no vandalism either. God box   11:17, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Archive:R/W Ferocious Strike Bunny Thumper. --[[image:GoD Sig3.jpg|20px]] Guild of  Deals  11:20, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Tiger Fury
Has anyone tried using the lesser IAS? It might disable some skills, but the lower energy is helpful. Guess you should take Run as One than.

wow
30 votes and no build masters voted on this yet.  * Jebus  *   Is    I  23:30, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Energizing Wind
was nerfed to oblivion, I suggest removing it from the variants section... Lord Twining 22:13, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

In soviet russia, bunny thumps you!  * Jebus  *   Is    I  21:05, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Scavenger Strike now for e-management? -- Aubee91 10:26, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

Scavenger Strike
Went ahead and added it to the main bar for e-management and removed the note about Energizing Wind from usage since it's been nerfed to oblivion. Someone can change it all back if they object. --Aubee91 15:06, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Energy is plenty without if you use your zealous hammer when you need to, I'd rather take poisounous bite (wtf spelling?) or brutal strike. Meh, scavengers might work though. Brandnew.  08:50, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Vamp + bonus d0m0g3z/energy gain from Scavenger's is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zealous(no d0m0g3z) + (removable)Poison degen.......... Moar d0m0g3z > less d0m0g3z. I noes math, yey! BlazingBurdy 04:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Note that...
You should also put in that you should use skills 1,2, and 3 very close together for best effect and in order. That is, Hammer Bash, Beastial Mauling, Crushing Blow, like that very fast for best pewpew


 * Norly? -- Armond Warblade[[Image:Armond sig image.png]] 02:18, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Should be updated to the elite-bull's thing. —ǘŋ Ɛxɩsƫ  08:19, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * People are running that? That would be archive->new imo. Bunny thumper is classic. Or do we already have pre RaO archived? - [[Image:Miserysig.PNG|117px]] (talk)  08:29, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * With PnH around, I don't think Thumpers are all that viable anymore. "Oh, dazed? Onoes! (Casts PnH on affected self/player) Aaah! All better!" --BlazingBurdy 16:47, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes we have old thumper archived somewhere--Relyk 16:50, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Protector's Strike
Would the optional slot work with Protector's Strike? From what I see, it's a 1/2 s activating skill, on a 3 s recharge time, and would add a spike right after Crushing Blow. Sure, Ranger can't get points in strength, but even a standard fast hammer attack would work. Plus, it's spammable for fast gaining of adrenaline, although it would send the energy way low with too much spamming. (Somewhat offset by Zealous.) I was checking for any other fast activating melee attack but all others are a) not warrior, b)not dealing damage, c)elite. Seems to me like the only fast-activating melee attack that hammers can use.141.85.0.77 14:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * energy thingy is better cause i run out of energy alot after repeated usage of the elite [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  02:36, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just sit on zealous when i do RaO. Lets me use it more.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 04:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * still not enough imo, constant kiters and blockers reduce the amount of energy gained [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]P WNAGEMUFFIN   crabs  15:51, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Kiting shouldn't be too much of a problem with a constant IAS.[[Image:Signature-Liger414.png|19px]]<font color="SaddleBrown">The Liger  <font color="Darkgoldenrod">talk  08:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC) 15:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * kiting=less hits with zealous=less ernegy gained=energy still rough when tryikng to keep elite up [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  17:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Prot Strike burns energy (3 second recast). It IS good for spiking purposes, though. *shrugs* --BlazingBurdy 04:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * bestial mauling would activate dw, so id rather use mokele smash or something--Relyk 09:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Meta tag and bottom note conflict
or is note referring to the archived thumper?. I would change it but idk whether its referring to old thumper or if its really still meta or really out of style again.209.136.71.235 02:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

meta tag?
havent seen this since bunny heroway nerfs...i dont pvp much so...in which way bunny thumpers are back in meta game? Illoyon 22:25, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, where are BT's being used in the meta right now? -- <font color="Purple">Angel <font color="Blue">us Evertonangelus.gif 22:39, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've seen quiet a few of these in RA but that's about it. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 23:58, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Healing Hands wammos are in RA but its not meta.--98.238.169.189 06:48, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * people still use this? I havent seen this used once in over 6 months --<font color="Purple">ℜĭŧz <font color="Orange">✔  17:28, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

CA + CA
Are both Comfort Animal and Charm Animal needed?90.193.118.67 16:52, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, in PvP you still need to bring both. Unless of course you don't plan on rezzing your pet >_> -- <font color="Purple">Angel <font color="Blue">us Evertonangelus.gif 17:19, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, I plan to ^^ Thanks 147.197.173.126 14:43, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, I say go to RA and make your monk heal ur pet cause you will probably be the only decent person on that team [[Image:Muffin.jpg|19px]]<font color="Brown">P WNAGEMUFFIN   <font color="Green">crabs  20:51, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * You're a retard muffin. Monks have enough to do in RA without healing somebody's stupid pet.[[User:Psychiatric Consultant|

Psychiatric Consultant ]] 06:19, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

AB tag?
Why doesnt this work in ab? -Ajsnuker 68.234.73.168 04:58, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * lmao ?

I'm not playing Thumper [in 4v4]...
..so long as B.Surge exists. AoE Blind as easy as 1-1-1 is terrible, and cuts Thumper's penises off! --BlazingBurdy 23:16, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, bsurge counters melee. --<font color="Black">Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 23:42, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * NOSHI?! I'm particularly referencing to RaO thumpers being within adjacent range, perfect enough for bsurgers to L-O-L-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 you to death. BSurge does stop all melee, but it particularly rapes Thumpers, or RaO+[Insert Melee Weapon/Profession Here]. --BlazingBurdy 19:28, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, bsurge rapes all melee that doesn't spec against it. --Shazamrowssig.png 19:46, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * how does it specifically stop this? blind is blind, no matter what melee you put it on -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 22:11, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * The pet will be blinded, and monks in RA likely won't remove blind from it. It just means you won't get daze most of the time against a bsurge even if your monk keeps you clean. If you bring blind reduction rune+shield you can still do something unless the Bsurge realizes blind is expiring faster (probably not because lolRA). Burdy should be more clear. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 22:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Even with -40% blind redux.. you're still not able to do shiet! Are you reeeeaaaallly going to be looking for bsurgers to blind you every four seconds, swap to your shield set, swap back, then continue attacking with your hammer? I think not! It slows you down greatly. RaO Hammer = No-Go, but RaO Axe on the other stands a much better chance since you should be wielding your shield at all times. --BlazingBurdy 21:33, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * And @ Angelus: Spear Masters like E.Lunge are usually split, thus being affected by B.Surge's AoE lameness. You're much more effective than RaO + melee-ranged weapons in RA. HA on the other hand is totally different because it's "organized", and you should be playing with advanced players/builds and recieving far more support than you ever would in RA [even from monks in RA]. --BlazingBurdy 21:37, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Spear Masters like E.Lunge are usually split, thus being affected by B.Surge's AoE lameness." I really have no clue what you are trying to say in this whole comment above. Blind is blind, your still fucked whether you're a sin, derv, warrior or RaO hammer. I fail to see your point. -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 21:48, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do swap to shield set often. I don't do it perfectly, but it still works. Better than being able to do absolutely nothing amirite? The Bsurge is probably not going to be blinding only you on recharge. <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 23:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Wait...Blind counters melee? I had no idea. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:43, 19 January 2010
 * All I'm saying is it's only half as effective on Spear BMs in RA because the pet and BM are split, so unless you're either attacking a warrior [which is retarded in most cases], or if the ele comes adjacent to you while the pet's locked onto him/her [so that the ele can affect you with AoE], you and your pet will almost never be affected simultaneously by B.Surge's AoE. --BlazingBurdy 21:47, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * You do know that you can lock your pet onto another target right? Even with a hammer, you don't both have to be attacking the same target....<font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:49, 19 January 2010
 * Unless you can hack it so that mauling inflicts daze on a target other than the one you KD? That's the whole point of RaO Thumping! Otherwise, I'd just stick to a regular hammer warrior [which is still fail vs. 1-1-1-1-b-s-u-r-g-e, but it's better than RaO Thumping because you have 3-sec kds which forces monks to spend time being unable to do shiet]. --BlazingBurdy 14:17, January 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you're playing RaO hammer, your pet is, ideally, on your target so you can daze when you KD. Because of this, against bsurge eles, you AND your pet will probably be blind most of the time.  Even if a monk removes your blind, your pet will still be blind most of the time, which means that you still won't be able to daze anything, which completely defeats the purpose of running RaO hammer.
 * Capiché? [[Image:User_Raine_R.gif|19px]]  is for   Raine,   etc.  14:54, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Switch to a blind shield, wait for bsurge, switch back to hammer, kill ele. If you're playing RaO you should probably have a -20 blind rune anyway. So that means -40% vs blind from bsurge...7 seconds? that's 2.8 seconds off, or nearly a 4 second blind, you can build up a decent amount of adrenaline and daze the faggot that keeps blinding you with that. Seriously, if your team isn't bad and you're not bad, you can kill a bsurge easily. Put your pet on another target while you suck up blinds then blow the ele up. -- <font color="#342EFF">¬ Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  15:39, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good luck finding a competent team in Random Arenas, and get used to failing if you're running RaO there. In HA/GvG on the other hand, totally different story [RC/LS Monks and other similar backliners say so!]. --BlazingBurdy 21:07, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good luck? You could quite possibly be bad at game. I can regularly make glads with RaO in RA. I choose to play hammer warrior, instead. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  21:10, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * if playing this in RA, there is no need for comfort animal....no one ever attacks the pet in RA, they are too focused on the monk (or other squishie if monk not present)...that's what I loved about playing R/P spearchucker because the ranger is typically the last target and the pet is usually an afterthought...so no comfort animal - antidote signet says "hi" which is pretty good at removing blind (e.g. anti b-surge) --Retired gwamm 21:14, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not bad, the ele's too OP'd, and my monk/team almost never removes my blind every 4 seconds because it depletes his/her energy pool. Not to meantion that even if I'm lucky enough to daze the ele, I often see monks with Draw Conditions, necros with FF, and rangers with M.Touch remove it fast enough to allow the b.surger to lame on me some more. So, if you're calling me bad because I'm unable to kill shit while having a 90% hit rate over 50% of the time [as well as empathy, VoR, Insidious Parasite, and vitrually every other wave of fucking anti-melee spell/skill in the fucking game], then you my friend are smoking some good crack! And I want some of your shit! --BlazingBurdy 21:20, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * And @ gwamm, uwrong. --BlazingBurdy 21:21, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * granted, I haven't actaully played over 2 hours worth of GW since October, 09' I don't think RA has changed since then. Just stating facts from my experience of a ranger in RA...always the last man standing and rarely ever the focus of enemy hate except when the rest of the team was dead or some leroy wammo seeking vengeance...true empathy spammers abound in RA but the trick is not to hit while under its effects and concentrate on your pet attacks if you don't have hex removal (or a monk who does it for you), same goes for other hexes..which is the beauty of having a pet in RA.  I only played enough to get a glad2 rank, which may not be enough to validate my claims for you Blue, but meh - It's RA who really gives a shit...actually, who really gives a shit about any of this? lol  This is nothing more than another medium for bored mofo's to pontificate via an external monologue to virtual listeners.  Extentialism ftw --Retired gwamm 21:32, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * sry for the WOT ^^, doesn't look like that much while typing :( --Retired gwamm 21:35, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

You forgot to mention blind every 4 seconds on you + pet, which monks' energy pools can't cover. --BlazingBurdy 22:54, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't getting hit by the bsurge every four seconds build up your adren for a hammer bash? (eh I maybe wrong, don't usually war) Then with your anti blind shield and runes it should nearly be a 4 sec blind (as someone said above their math, not mine) and a good blind bot shouldn't be spamming it every four seconds because then it'd be hell easy to anticipate. So...you may set you pet off somewhere else, build up your adren by getting hit, get blinded, switch to blind shield, bring pet back, kd ele and daze him. Also before you said "I often see monks with Draw Conditions, necros with FF, and rangers with M.Touch remove it (your daze) fast enough to allow the b.surger to lame on me some more." So ever thought that maybe you were unlucky....in RA... and got a team with hardly any condition removal (or rupts) and vsd a team with lots of it? Point is you can counter blind bot if your not bad and your tema is bad. It may render useless if your vsing a bsurge and your team is bad and your bad.... but thats the same with all melee builds.<small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Arial Unicode MS;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:white;background-color:brown;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Consitini  23:23, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * taking 40 damage every 4 seconds won't build adren very fast. &mdash; Maf so rational. 23:34, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * eh gets you somewhere. Whereas going "BAWWWW my pet is blinded and so am I!, I know I'll continually attack this target so he can just hit c to blind me and I'll stay in AoE of the pet to make his job even easier BAWWW" doesn't get you anywhere. Unless of course you like starting rage wars over random people in RA and start flamming the BSurge.<small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Arial Unicode MS;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:white;background-color:brown;padding:1px 5px 2px 6px;"> Consitini  23:37, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

omg casters bring anti-melee /ragequit-- Relyk  talk  23:41, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Run dshot in the optional, dshot bsurge, problem solved. Easiest thing ever to do in RA. Rawrawr Dinosaur 00:08, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dshot on a fucking RaO?! OMFG Are you SRS?! Everyone read his comment for a second.. ..and now tell me where you'd put D.Shot.. Where?!?! on a RaO Hammer build, where the F*CK do you fit Dddddddddddd.Shhhhhhhhoooooooot?! That was a load of laughs, rawr. And @ Frosty, ur a sh*tload of f*ck wrong if you think trolling making sarcastic comments at me's gonna work [vice PROVING ME WRONG]. And banning me's only going to show everyone partaking in this discussion how you've failed to prove me wrong. --BlazingBurdy 01:07, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's see.....in the optional slot? herp de durp. Life   Guardian  01:10, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cuz ur gon' git far w/o scavenger's strike, amirite?! Herp der dork. I'd be damned if I camp on Zealous, so don't even use that crap approach. Vamp > ALL. --BlazingBurdy 01:16, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I lol'd. And Burdy, you never cease to amaze me man. Frosty isn't even trying to troll you and you still rage like that. And you act like we're all on your side or something... if he was trying to troll you (which he really wasn't), he just did a really good job of it based on your statement a few comments up. you are da best -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 01:18, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, you run vamp and scavenger and do +5 a hit, and i'll run zealous + dshot and actually hit not to mention you could dshot woh and faint and shit if you aren't against bsurge. Rawrawr Dinosaur 01:59, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe Burdy was trolling and you all got trolled fucking hardcore. -- 02:00, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine! I corrected the anger-induced portions of my post to help ya'll better understand my feelings towards putting dshot in RaO builds, mmkay? Sorry for being easily-angered. -.- --BlazingBurdy 02:31, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, as Rawr said, dshot could be really good if you don't fail at weapon swapping. Dshot is so good, I've seen it taken on monk bars before. In RA it won't be hard to rupt a skill you need to be shutdown. Important skills, such as bsurge in this case, usually get spammed on recharge since the skill isn't as good. This makes for an easy swap to a bow, dshot bsurge, and get back to your hammer and hit shit. -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 02:40, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not on an RaO, I won't.. --BlazingBurdy 02:44, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * then don't, ill be busy rupting bitches -- <font color="DarkBlue">Ang <font color="DarkBlue">el <font color="DarkBlue">us 02:47, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * kite away for blind to end then auto dshot the predictable ele, you got nothing else to do.-- Relyk  talk  05:32, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Overbearing Smash
Added it to optionals. -- <font color="black" size="2px">Ajsnuker   02:09, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Charm Animal
Removed Charm Animal, added an extra optional slot. UnwokenSpirit 03:56, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * "This is PvP!" -- <font color="black" size="2px">Ajsnuker  [[Image:File-Ajsnukerprage.jpg|19px]] 03:59, April 5, 2010 (UTC)