Archive talk:P/W "Coward!" Paragon

Coward is a very bad skill.--Goldenstar 16:40, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * Wen one noob saw coward on a noob bar, every noob starting using it in badder bars Chris 17:22, 9 January 2008 (EST)
 * Wait...is that...English? Rickyvantof 03:38, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * This build is destined to be underrated. "Coward!" is really not a bad skill, despite what people say.  I'm not entirely sure if "Coward!" is worth it over, say, cruel spear, but if you start cracking a team, this build will do a really sick job of stopping the opposing team from retreating.  Before that happens, it should be a nice disruption skill or to kd targets trying to kite from your wars.  It also should work great for keeping the enemy warriors off the monks.  Of course, since some people will only give a build a chance if they see it on observer mode, being run by at least 5 guilds, nobody is going to accept it. Pluto 04:00, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * /Agree. Coward is bulls strike from a distance, on para's its gud. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  05:26, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * This bar isn't very well planned though. I can't imagine why someone would pack FGJ for just two adrenaline skills. [[Image:BaineImg.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  08:09, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * You'd rather say it the different way, why actually not take it? FGJ boosts up your adr by 100%, thus having for 20 seconds coward functioning like it was 3 adr, which is pretty spammable. Usually that slot is filled up by something like Watch Yourself, Shields Up, ect. But this build is so offensive, that you can't fill in one of those. Other option would be a attack skill like harrier's toss, but FGJ is actually better then that, since kd's kill monks, extra damage doesn't make much difference.. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  09:22, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * I think "Coward" has potential in this way, but i'll have to test it myself before saying anything more. Might go some time before i get that done. Zyber 09:19, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, it has potential like this. Ignore the Chris dude. - Star Seeker  |  My talk  11:02, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Redid the Attributes a bit. What do you think? Rickyvantof 11:04, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * I think it was better off with the 12-9-9 distribution. You really don't use that extra leadership and command for anything. Zyber 16:32, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * Break-point on anthem of flame is at 12 leadership. Higher command doesn't do much though.  Honestly though, I don't know if lowering spear mastery is worth the extra second of burning + higher energy returns from shouts.  My gut tells me it is, but again, I can't say that for certain. Pluto 17:46, 10 January 2008 (EST)
 * 3 Seconds of burning is better than 2. And the higher chance of a critical works nice with Vicious Attack. Less damage with the Spear though... Rickyvantof 01:07, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * You don't get an extra second of burning, Leadership is only at 10+1. Although Command adds 3% crit chance, it is not that much, because a extra point in Spear Mastery will add about 1% to every attack. The slightly higher damage from spear mastery is worth more than +2% additional crit chance every once in a while. (IMO) Zyber 09:24, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * Natural Temper is better than FGJ! imo. [[Image:BaineImg.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  09:29, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * Nah, use Enduring Harmony+FGJ! That rocks, imo. Zyber 09:41, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * Thus wasting 2 skills of your bar. Not worth it. Btw, about attributes, fuck leadership + command, really, it is not needed. 3% crit chance increasement, how the fuck should you care about that? Same for 12 leadership, it's only 1 sec extra burning=8 degen for 1 second. Having like a 1 to 3 more dps(don't know the exact number) is just better. Also, like pluto said, 11 leadership is pointless. Anthem = 3 secs @ 12, not 11. The 1 sec longer aggresive is totally suckage, since you won't be having troubles to keep it up unless you die or forget anthem anyway, which means you're just stupid. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  16:16, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Burning is 7 degen nubcake. Soqed hozi 14:24, 12 January 2008 (EST)

What
"It's also useful for interrupting important skills, such as Resurrects, or Spirits."
 * I really don't think so.--[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px|19px]] Lann 16:26, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * lol wut --71.229.204.25 18:45, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * removed already..  ĐONT * TALK  18:51, 11 January 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah, but we still get to make fun of Unexist for it. --71.229.204.25 18:51, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Why is that removed? O.o Rickyvantof 08:23, 12 January 2008 (EST)
 * l o l.. Coward knocks down moving foes.. if you are activating a skill you are not moving, thus you cannot be knocked down.  ĐONT * TALK  08:25, 12 January 2008 (EST)

OMFG I can't believe I'm that stupid >_< It must've been very late when I added that to usage... Rickyvantof 08:49, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Anyway. Natural Temper and Enduring Harmony are in Variants (they already were) IMO Natural Temper is useless. It only adds one strike every 3rd attack and doesnt even work when you're under the effect of an enchantment. Rickyvantof 08:52, 12 January 2008 (EST)
 * I agree. just said "natural temper" to "contribute". [[Image:BaineImg.jpg|19px|||My Talk]] BaineTheBotter  08:56, 12 January 2008 (EST)
 * It was already in Variants when you said that ;) Rickyvantof 09:07, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Too bad people don't like builds just because of the elite it uses. Rickyvantof 11:45, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Hooray, my first vetted build :) Rickyvantof 13:48, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Update
I hear this build just got a whole lot better now that "Coward!" got buffed. Pluto 21:26, 17 January 2008 (EST)
 * When did it get buffed? Rickyvantof 00:45, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * OMFG only four strikes! This got buffed alright :D Rickyvantof 00:47, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * I know now i'm gonna take this to gvg imo. Coward for 2 adr for 20 secs ... lolwutdafuck welcome back ward of stability. - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  03:29, 18 January 2008 (EST)
 * Use Enduring Harmony for 30 secs of FGJ :o Rickyvantof 11:34, 18 January 2008 (EST)

So have the Maiming Spear variety been deemed Snaragons yet? Or is that name too gay. Kabu To 19:57, 20 January 2008 (EST)
 * Sounds like something from Harry Potter, TBH XD Rickyvantof 11:04, 21 January 2008 (EST)


 * Harry Potter + Paragons= Potteragon? [[image:User_Godliest_Icon_ritualist.jpg|19px]] GΩdlﺄεﻯt™ -_-  11:09, 21 January 2008 (EST)
 * Harrygon?? Rickyvantof 11:27, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Warrior primary?
Is it worth losing aggressive refrain, anthem of flame, runes, and some e-management for some armor penetration, +20 armor against physical, no cracked armor, and 3 sec knockdown from stonefist? This is not even for variants, I was just wondering which profession I should use my war elite tome on (I only have PvE chars, and no more char slots). Justing6 17:29, 21 January 2008 (EST)
 * No, it isn't worth it. – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 18:55, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Anthem of Weariness
Could this be used instead of Anthem of Flame? Offers about 11 seconds of weakness at this attribute level. I've tried it with Weariness myself in RA and seems to do fine. (Mr Pink57 21:52, 21 January 2008 (EST))
 * Yes. It is a decent alternative to AoF. ▪  √ēт   [no :D u]  21:54, 21 January 2008 (EST)
 * Anthem of flame is generally better in non-paraway, since 3 secs of burning is 24 damage of degen, and weakness is a useless condition on any non-attacking char(which you are bumping for, you won't waste a SoL to a warrior..) - [[Image:Unexist sig.jpg|20px]]Unexist  06:39, 10 February 2008 (EST)

And lastly for variants I would say Fallback is a good one for AB, as it effects all allies not just your team. (Mr Pink57 02:23, 22 January 2008 (EST))
 * Hmm, this is mainly an offensive build, in which a skill like Fall Back wouldn't really fit. Rickyvantof 07:45, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * Fall Back is an excellent skill in AB, and definately worth the skill slot. Kabu To 15:47, 22 January 2008 (EST)
 * I'll add it to variants Rickyvantof 10:46, 23 January 2008 (EST)
 * Never mind Rickyvantof 10:47, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Ra tag
Why the hell does this has ra/ta/ab tag? Para's are only good in gvg/ha. - Unexist  06:37, 10 February 2008 (EST)
 * This build works awesomely in TA, RA and AB, so I don't see why the tags shouldn't be up there. Rickyvantof 15:38, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * B/c coward on swords functions hellalot better over there... Para's aren't effective in 4 man maps. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  17:19, 24 February 2008 (EST)

This build has only 76 or 86 armor (depending on insignia), no blocking skills, no self-heal, no condition removal, not even a run skill. That makes it unsuitable for any random environment and any team without a monk in particular. The RA tag must be removed. Sure there are worse RA builds, but that doesn't mean that this is good. It may be ok with a monk in TA and AB, but doesn't deserve a great rating.
 * OMFG! You're absolutely right! Everyone who voted on this build is an absolute retard! Wow. Imagine that. - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  06:17, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * You fail at irony. I'm guessing you feel offended because you gave it 5 points. Look at the rating page: Assuming you give it 5 for effectiveness and innovation, you certainly can't give more than 1 point for universality because there is none. That leaves it with less than 4 points overall. Feel free to show me the universality of this build. When things go wrong you can run away at normal speed, that's about it.
 * I fail at nothing. You, on the other hand, have no idea what you're talking about. First, there is no irony in my previous statement neither accidental nor intended. You may wish to consult a dictionary. Second, I did not vote on this build and thus do not have a biased opinion towards it's score. It can be trash for all I care. Third, Effectiveness makes up 70% of the build's rating. Universality and innovation are only 15% each. etc etc etc. That's about as much effort as I'm willing to put into an anon who doesn't sign their comments. - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  09:26, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * The alias behind your comment doesn't make it any more important. The numbers above were just an example. It's hard to believe that a build that is so easy to counter, has nothing to cancel a blocking stance and has no defense at all can get 5/5 in effectiveness. This is about as much effort as I'm willing to put into a community where such a build is considered to be great. I'm looking forward to see anyone using this and rip them apart.
 * Good luck ripping them apart when you're on the ground 75% of the time. Rickyvantof 10:43, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * One blocking stance gives me enough time to put poison, bleeding and burning on you, cast a self-heal and /dance while I watch you die before you can get me down even once. I played against this build and I tried it myself, it's worthless without a monk.
 * You won't get any Gladiator points in a team without a monk anyway, well, maybe one if you're lucky. As for the blocking stance, I'll just switch targets, easy as that. Rickyvantof 10:59, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * Also please sign your comments. There's a policy about that. Rickyvantof 11:00, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * Your comment was unimportant because, as I pointed out, it's idiotic. The reason I won't spend any real energy on you is because you're acting like a random troll who can't bother to follow wiki etiquette by typing 4 letters. Also, I want some of your badass stances that block shouts. - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  11:02, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * You are quite obviously a troll yourself, so don't come with that. When the blocking stance is up, you're not going to build up any adrenaline on that person to begin with and when they know what skill you are using, they can just stand still and you can't knock them down anymore. Any caster's or ranger's range is greater than yours so they won't need to run to reach you. In RA and AB there's more than often situations where you'll have to take care of yourself 1on1 and blocking stances are very common. With this build you can't even go on with capturing shrines when your team dies (unless of course you want to die too), which most other classes can do without problems, so that's another disadvantage. A RA team can be just as good without a monk, but only if it's not made up of chars like this one. /you are so fat that when I try to make a picture of you, the camera says NOT ENOUGH MEMORY (I hope that name is not too long)
 * Build adrenaline by target swapping. Kite people to compensate for not moving/larger range. Help other teams cap while yours respawns. An RA team made up entirely of monks is awful, too, so Monks must suck then. Any more bad arguments? - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  11:46, 26 February 2008 (EST)
 * lol did u ever pvp? there isn't always a target to switch to, sometimes in ra and ab you have to fight 1on1 and this build can't do it, helpin other teams fair enuff, but better be able to cap alone --- doon koon
 * If you don't have a target to swap to in RA or AB then that means, at worst, it's 1v1 and it comes down to hundreds of variables whether you win or lose. Everything being equal, there's plenty of builds this can kill and there's also plenty of builds that can kill this. That's how GW works. Now stop QQing about the stupid RA tag. If you don't want to play it in RA then don't! - zomg!  [[Image:panic_sig.png|19px]]  PANIC!  14:20, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Conclusion: If you find this build inefective, you apparenlty aren't using it properly. Rickyvantof 11:47, 26 February 2008 (EST)

conclusion2: the autor tries to defend his build --- doon koon
 * Not really. I'm defending a build that wtfpwnz. Everywhere. Regardless of wether I'm the author or not. Rickyvantof 04:00, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Conclusion 3: EVERYTHING WORKS IN RA. Gogey 12:09, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Cowabunga!
Better name - Cow-a-gon! MOO!! — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ 13:33, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * omg that's lame :D Rickyvantof 13:35, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Lol. I can see the Paragon yelling MOO at a guy and they fall over.  Rofl.  Paragon City 13:47, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Cow-tipping? — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ [[Image:Reithan_Sig.jpg|19px]] 19:33, 12 February 2008 (EST)
 * Don't have a Cow, man. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:User Abedeus Sig.jpg|19px]] 02:15, 15 February 2008 (EST)

Ur amasing.  Fishels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  16:29, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
 * NO U  ɟoʇuɐʌ ʎʞɔıɹ [[Image:Panic_srsbsns.gif|37px]] 16:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Sweet!
I put this build on Morgahn and he actually rocked with it..He even used Coward correctly! I used it as well in RA, not much survivability but good damage and general party support. Nice job ^.^ |  Intemet  Internet  |  21:08, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Why would you possibly want to put this on a hero? – Ichigo 724 [[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 23:42, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 * Maybe for Hero Battles, but it isn't very useful for PvE. -Mike 07:05, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

"FGJ!" Nerf
Change to optional? Spaggage 13:28, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

outdated?
probably the only good 4v4 paragon build...-- Ikimono "My beard is thick."  01:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * can you please stop thinking you are better at paragons than everyone else? please? Drahgal Meir 02:18, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Paragon's are bad outside of support like empathic in GvG. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  02:28, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * tpiy is ok 06:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * indeed paragons are bad outside 8v8, but this is probably the only thing a paragon can capitalize with in 4v4. It's a mediocre niche. Drahgal, when did i say that EVER?-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 07:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I said, "can you please stop thinking you are better at paragons than everyone else?". And, yes you do think you are better at paragons than everyone else. Drahgal Meir 04:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well then so let that be the opinion.-- Ikimono "My beard is thick." [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 06:33, 25 August 2009 (UTC)