Archive talk:Team - HA Nightmare Spike

Theorycraft? Cope Land 10:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Update [|this] imo. That build owwwwwned btw. ;o 82.75.192.76 10:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't want to touch that, that's like realllly old [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 10:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Nah I've seen this before, not sure if it's really run much tho, it may just have been trashed. You can also take Sight Beyone Sight btw. Then you have a spike which goes through most prots and blind (take Called Shot for one which goes through blocking too). 81.107.77.52 10:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh there isn't really much blind tbh, only eruption, just get out of it's AoE. Bsurge is run sometimes, just need prot to LS anyone who gets blinded before spikes. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 10:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You sure about Aegis on the prot? Cope Land 10:53, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Aegis is amazing, guarenteed altar caps and an awesome panic button. You have the bar compression for e-manage + aegis with LS and PnH in #6. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 10:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Might seem dumb asking, but do you really need the 9 marks? and im only saying this as won't your arrows be doing basically 0 damage and you won't need damage outside of spikes. And you can have higher rest? but i dno Exo Oo 18:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I realised I was running marks for no reason and changed it, about 5 mins before you posted. [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 18:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ups, i didn't even save page! [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]Frosty  the Admin 18:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure
that the only reason you would run this over meta r-spike would be if you could fit more resto shit on the spikers. could ya?--| Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 19:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * or because this is unprottable and has a 207 point heal for 4 people every spike. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  19:40, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * oh yeah, or that. --<FONT COLOR="#347235">|[[Image:Hipowi_sig.jpg]] Hipowi  pew pew pew </FONT> 19:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Why not use forked arrow instead of dual shot?
 * Because they hex you or the prot prots you and then your spike disappears.  Life [[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 15:39, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And because you are doing no or negligible bow damage anyway. So Dual Shot's drawback ins't really a drawback any more, it's just slightly more expensive. 81.107.77.52 17:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And OotV [[Image:Frostysig9000.jpg|19px]]<font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 17:04, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also everything is recharging at 10 seconds anyway. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

You don't run forked because there's no point in having the 5s recharge from forked since you're limited by nightmare weapon anyway--Goldenstar 12:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Goldenstar enjoys repeating things already said one line above him. ups. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ups i read the first line of the section and didn't bother with the rest--Goldenstar 12:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Goldentl;dr. :> ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

shitter spike
completely defeats the point of rspike [high armored targets spiking every 5 seconds]. its not even good either, cant do any damage without all 4 rangers alive/together/not blinded. hammer gets on your rangers and now your spike cant kill. or ootv is interrupted. not nearly enough damage. very squishy with all monks/necros/rits, weapons wont matter when your rits are busy spiking not protting with weapons. can't use dshot outside of spike, which means your completely reliant on pnh + 2 monks to hold you up, and if you've ever played HA you know that it isn't enough. regular rspike has blocks/vitals/DA, something along those lines. every vote is completely overrating this. 67.159.45.96 13:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * terrible anon is fucking terrible. spike every 10 seconds is plenty of time to put weapons out. also has 200+ point heal for each Rt every spike. if your monks + 4 rts can't keep you up, everyone you're playing with is pretty god-damned terrible, which is probably true by the sound of it. interrupts counter everything, so no u and stfu. blind beats everything, and you ever hear of Aura of Stability? i mean, christ - i know a lot of the anons who lurk this site are bad, but how fucking terrible can you be? Saying this lacks survivability is like saying Bloodspike lacks survivability. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  15:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * While I agree the build is bad, I do think you're pretty terrible for saying 2 monks + pnh isn't enough. It really is if your monks don't suck, the rest is just that extra few seconds in koth, lol. Reunion
 * you sound like a fucking retard danny. HA isnt about surviving underworld, were talking about 1v1v1 on koth or altar caps, or courtyard, or split maps where all 4 rangers might not be together (antichamber, forg. shrines). you thinking that 2 monks and a pnh can hold the team up with 1 spike every 10 seconds and 8 squishies makes me laugh. stop thinking of HA as fetid and underworld, stop insulting me when you dont know jack shit about the game, and get off your tits about me being an anon. 67.159.45.96 17:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * iirc, in 1v1v1, it's about who doesn't get ganked. on split maps, look at how much fucking defense is on each build, then try that again. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  17:56, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol, you think the reason that good teams win more then bad ones in halls is because they dont get ganked? i don't follow that logic in the slightest. and on split maps you have no aoe to wipe shrines and the slowest recharging spike in the history of ranger spikes, which means youll be standing on an altar with your monks taking an ass raping while youre fucking helpless, and your necro is down bottom with an r/e locked on him so he can't use orders and you cant kill. thats just forgotten shrines, i cant imagine the horror on capture points when two eles are bombing your monks, who have these awesome weapon spells to save them from all the Heats going up. 67.159.45.96 18:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * People on this wiki are amazing :\ Reunion 18:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Srsly, I mean, I just learned that an unprot-able 792 dmg spike was bad. I feel like my whole childhood was a lie.--Kammorremae 18:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It actually is though. I used to know a guy who ran it with 3 rts for a few weeks for fun, until he also realised it was terrible and moved on. Reunion 18:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * its very bad. and you can't just say "800 dmg unprottable" because thats best case scenario. don't assume orders is up or rangers aren't blinded. its HA, things won't always be best case scenario. 67.159.45.96 18:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * based on that, no spike would ever work. ups? ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * nope, just shitty ones with barely enough damage to kill relying on every single character. also, hf vs iway when your stanceless rangers have warriors spamming interrupts on them. truly, if this stays in Good it will be further proof of pvx's mental inadequacy. 67.159.45.96 18:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * actually, it's it was in great. ;o ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, 67. why do you add shitter to every heading you make? [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:20, 11 June 2009
 * Because he knows PvX is full of shitters? [[Image:Misery_Cow.png|19x19px]] <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   18:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought that was a given.... [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:24, 11 June 2009
 * For real, 67, with your argument, you should be trashing every build with a physical or an enchantment present. It's a shitter's argument to say "this team build has to compete, so it fails".  I agree with you point about how fragile the team is, but you're a fucking retard otherwise.--Kammorremae 18:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * its good to see you didn't understand the argument whatsoever. 10 perfectly good reasons why this is garbage and you only see ONE and then call me an idiot for it. its not that the reliance on the enchantment is bad, its that when combined with ALL the other problems it makes the build bad. go fuck yourself mate =) 67.159.45.96 18:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I saw and understood them, and I even adressed them. Your entire argument is "This build faces other players, who will touch it's naughty bits, so it's bad".  Your ten reasons are just facets of that argument.  Everything you say boils down to that.  So, I say it's a shitter's argument.  And yes, you're an idiot.--Kammorremae 18:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Kamm's usually pretty nice, so you must be doing something wrong, anon mcshitter. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * cute story. let me know when you run this and tell me if you can even get past underworld, let alone standing up with it in halls. 67.159.45.96 18:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I could care less if the build works (notice that I haven't voted on it). I don't often do HA. I doubt I'd make it far with the most potent HA build in town, because I wouldn't know how to play it's strengths. That being said, a shitter's argument is still a shitter's argument, and I felt like adding my two cents. For all the input you give on this site, you have still failed to reg, so even if you were 100% right (which you're not), you'd still be a shitter for acting like we should give a shit about what you have to say.

And I'm only nice cause I'm socially awkward and crave acceptance.--Kammorremae 18:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * so you admit your an HA shitter, and yet you proceed to tell me im an idiot when you have NO idea what the hell you are talking about. glad you discredited yourself, saved me the effort. 67.159.45.96 18:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * doesn't make your argument any less bad, tbh. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  18:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Skill=Knowledge? Just cause I'm not good at it doesn't mean I don't know anything about it.  If that was a quality that was needed to give an informed opinion about something, all Olympic judges would be former Olympiads, and most sports anouncers would be fired.  But it's not hard to possess knowledge without possessing the skill attached to it.  I know plenty about chess, and different strategies or gambits usd to play it, but I'm a hopelessly outmatched in almost every competition.
 * So, know that you've also displayed a complete failing to understand basic mechanics necessary in real life, like the seperation of information and application, would you mind fucking off?--Kammorremae 18:59, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  19:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * half of that didn't even make sense. and you still haven't made any points as to why this is even good or why my arguments are as bad as you claim. insult after insult but that doesn't change the fact that this is shitty. go ahead and run it yourself but dont put it in the Good/Great category when it completely lacks the primary components that make rspike strong in the first place. 67.159.45.96 19:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I never said it was good, and I never voted it into that catergory, so stop taking what others say and applying it to me. Rather, take what I say in the context that I say it.  And I have, twice, explained why your argument, for the most part, sucks.  If you didn't get it the first two times, you won't get it the third.  Either read back on what I've typed, or carry on.
 * Also, don't insult people and bitch that you in turn were insulted at some point. Doesn't matter who started it.  In that regard, you're just as much as a shitter as me.--Kammorremae 19:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * you make no sense honestly kamm. you said that my argument was shitty because it could be applied to any build. i said it wasn't because it was just the straw the broke the camels back, and so it cannot be applied to everything. this has turned into shitter drama, you aren't even talking about the build anymore you are just consistently calling me a shitter. its a build discussion page, and i know you like throwing in your worthless two cents but its exactly that, worthless. talk about the build not about me. 67.159.45.96 19:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * well, you are a shitter, tbh. the build isn't all that great, but that doesn't matter if you can't state that without emplying fallacious argument after fallacious argument in such a way that you appear to be arguing against any tactics or builds in general. ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  19:59, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I only called you a shitter once.--Kammorremae 20:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

wow, so much /care and /drama... care and drama less please? <font color="Blue">Frosty <font color="Blue"> the <font color="Blue">Admin 20:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I do have a habit of annihilating talk pages.--Kammorremae 20:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ Right now I'm waiting on data to start putting into the database I'm working on. I've been waiting on it since 5 hours ago. :< ··· Danny   Does   Drugs  20:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear saint, i thought you raged pvx? If you wanna be a bitch about builds, at least be ballsy enough to make a new account--Goldenstar 20:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol Saint is bad and still hasn't hit puberty :> -- Crowels [슴Mc슴] Mootles  20:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Re-write
Re-wrote the build and moved it into testing. Needs vote wipe. Slightly less damage than regular rspike and 10s recharge instead of 5, but this has way more snare + defense with the advanatage that the spike is completely unprottable--TahiriVeila 13:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No favourable or rtw? I know this works absolutely fine without them but wouldn't it be a decent thing to add? -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  17:55, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only reason you needed with of them was b/c rspike spikes of horbows/longbows. You should be spiking on recurve bows (Except first kill on zaishen) so you don't need either and you're really better off with extra utility--TahiriVeila 17:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair point. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  18:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Small problem, you can't Shadow Prison every spike. Drag nmn   talk cont  06:46, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not necessary for every spike, only rigor spikes.--TahiriVeila 06:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Kindle
Don't Nightmare spikes usually bring kindle arrow? Drahgal Meir 23:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * WTF why would they do that? The whole point of the spike is to be unprottable. Kindle arrows is abs shit even when not in nightmare spike, dunno why you'd ever run it anywhere =\--TahiriVeila 23:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * its an extra packet of damage not included in the actual bow attack damage. Drahgal Meir 23:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes but this already does enough damage to cleanspike ghosts with a rit not on spike...you don't need an extra packet of non-lifestal damage to activate rof and fuck the spike. Plus you have nothing in marks, you'd have to fuck with your resto atts to bring kindle which is just retarted--TahiriVeila 00:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Cleanspiking a ghost with a rit down might be a bit of an overstatement. This does ((53 + 16 + 5) * 3) * 3 = (funnily) 666 damage + DW at 16 channeling, 15 blood. It will cleanspike a ghost, but it's hard to get vitaled up and morale boosted monks, I noticed that while running it. This also means that Order down means only 522 + DW damage which won't kill that much. It's a great idea, you can hold up against Sways for 10 minutes as long as you keep NR down, but it's not super-powerful. Drag  nmn   talk cont  09:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Almost right. At 16 channeling + 16 blood it's ((53 * 3) * 3) for nightmare. (17 * 9) + 63 for ootv + vamp gaze. Spike = 693 + deepwound. Augury should be on every spike since it's 12s recharge. Spike is completely unprottable so with three rits up you're really screwing something up if you're not cleanspiking ghosts (ghosts have 640 max health to start with). With one rit not on spike the damage comes down to 483 + DW. But you also have to remember you can crip + ddagger on spike for ~100 damage even though it won't be quite clean. Without DP it is a little more difficult to spike ghostlies down with only two rits, but still doable. With DP it's a cakewalk to spike anything out--TahiriVeila 18:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

this will be easily a clean spike with life stealing dont know what u guys r talking about ootv 16 multiply by 6 + 53 times 6 is enough damage that is 894 damage not in including the sin or anything besides ootv and 3 dual shots not adding the deep wound which if i am correct like 100k damage if you disagree ign: john click
 * Really? 100,000 damage? I highly doubt that. -- <font color="Black">Drah 02:14, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * (53*9)+(17*9)+63+100=793 Nore more, no less. -- <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Frosty  <span style="font-family:mistral, cursive;">Mc Admin  02:20, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Iron Mist
Curious, does Life Stealing damage through iron mist? <font color="#004466">Mooter -  talk | contrib 18:27, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes--TahiriVeila 16:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Iron Mist works well here though it'll likely get removed quite quickly due to lack of cover hexes. I wonder if it might be useable in some kind of hexway or hex/life stealing hybrid or something...? 86.10.10.140 16:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You'd be surprised by how many monks get preoccupied with trying to catch the spike and don't remove hexes. I've seen frontliners just stand there and give up on moving for 10-12 seconds at a time b/c their monks were too focused on other things to remove the hex--TahiriVeila 16:48, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Video?
I'd love a video of this team-looks sexy 71.74.239.140 01:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * hint: it will look like rspike with three rits. &mdash; μαφλεσ 15:50, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

caller
is the callers energy ok? if not go n/a and take a good bit of soul reaping. it looks tight.
 * You have 13 crit strikes. Bring a zealous spear and wand shit in between spikes--TahiriVeila 17:10, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

Great?
Am I missing something here? Every one of these I've ever been against makes like 1/2 kills if we are sucking. Shutting down nightmare weapon is ridiculously easy and even with a bonder it tends to wipe fast. --Crow 14:04, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * naw, ive run it with borat and its actually a very good build, despite what i wrote above. when mesmers/rangers camp our nightmares we just sit on 4040 channeling set until fast cast. the snaring involved is absolutely absurd, i can't remember us ever losing a relics match, even in halls, because once you cover iron mist they are fucked. its a solid build (surprisingly) Gringo 18:26, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hrm, maybe it is good. I don't think I've ever lost to it though, whether it was Borat running it or a random pug, and even in halls and shit ;o. --Crow 19:19, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * when i lose to it with borat its either to a REALLY good balance that can push kills (which we would lose to with most builds), or its when we get ganked. either way, its not the builds fault. Gringo 19:25, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Fuck, this must mean I'm the best. --Crow 19:29, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * ive never lost to iway :( Gringo 19:33, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Archive?
SH the spikes = no spike right? or hell, life sheath itExo Oo 18:06, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

why mb&s over a warding? Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:14, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * dunno, i ran recup for him 2 days ago and i had warding. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 18:24, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

theres a video of my old guild using this in ta.71.115.81.27 22:37, July 28, 2010 (UTC)kuriiakon