PvXwiki talk:Requests for Build Master Status/Frosty

SO what was the reason for failing last time?-- X 16:44, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * he declined.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  16:53, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Again, just for those questioning, I will say this. PvX doesn't force you to play the game. PvX doesnt say "hey, interrupt a skill". PvX is simply telling which builds are good, which builds are bad, and why. In this, Frosty is better then almost everyone on PvX, and most people on Guild Wars. Who gives a rats ass if he hasn't played high rank gvg/ha? Jake was promoted before he had ever gvg'd. Alex still hasn't ever done a lot of either (he has done some HA, and lamed gvg with smurf :P ), and he's still a fine BM because he understand how the game works. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 17:24, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am sure most people are good at the game. Just cause they don't get circled jerked on PVX dosen't make them bad at GW.-- X  18:22, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nop. --Crow 18:25, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I said good not great. Or do you mean you need PVX to play GW at a high lvl.-- X  18:30, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Crow means a majority of people are not good at Guild Wars. --Frosty  [[Image:Frostcharge.jpg|19px]] 18:39, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I guess there is a miss communitcation with the word "good". Someone who can finish the game and able to hold there own in PvP is who I consider "good".  Sounds like you guys have an different take on the word "good".-- X  18:51, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * yea to us good means good :> &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 18:54, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good.-- X 18:57, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

less ad hom. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:21, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're so cool. Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  20:22, 21 January 2010
 * and you and vince are dumb for caring who nominates him, i'm just another support vote, who gives a shit that i initiated the process? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:24, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Was that the only reason I gave? Wow, I am dumb. Thank you for your clarification, Gringo. You are by far the most valued user of this wiki. Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  20:27, 21 January 2010
 * way to tack on an irrelevant argument to try and look cool. your other reason "im not sure if he still obs's a lot". between the two reasons, you look like a retard. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:29, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your analysis of my general demeanor here on PvX, Gringo. I will take to heart the things you have explained to me and do my best to implement changes in my personality that reflect your kind constructive criticism. Again, thank you. Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:31, 21 January 2010
 * cool deflection, bro. back to what i was saying, less ad hom, he'd be a great bm. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:32, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I'll need to request your kind assistance again, young Gringo. Exactly what ad hominems are you claiming exist on the project page? It seems to be that there aren't any. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:38, 21 January 2010
 * You people use ad hominem too much without knowing what it means. Also I agree with KJ, and I disagree with anyone else. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  20:39, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Big, and therefore agree with myself. On a serious note (and to end all my ridiculousness), there is a reason Frosty would have lost the last BM nomination....if I have to spell out why then I think it defeats the purpose of bringing it up, so I'll stop there. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:42, 21 January 2010
 * ad hom is arguing against the presenter rather then against the idea, which is exactly what kj is doing. he cares more about the fact that i nominated frosty then the nomination itself. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:44, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * it is more closely arguing with the presenter while adding uncharacteristic references to the presenter rather than with the presentation. Ups. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  20:47, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * there are a multitude of ways ad hom can be used, picking one and then saying "oh ur doing it wrong. ups!" is dumb. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:50, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, you're wrong. To be fair, Jake thought ad hominem meant the same thing you do. It doesn't. Ad hominem means that you link your argument's validity to an issue or topic that doesn't apply to the argument. For example, if I were having an argument about morality and my reply was that the other person's argument was invalid because he's a filthy asshole, then that's an ad hominem.
 * However, when the topic is a person, as in any election, the validity of their character and/or the actions they have or have not taken is in fact on topic and valid. Therefore, arguments about whether or not Frosty has obs'd recently fully applies to this nomination.
 * Graduate high school, and then you're more than welcome to correct me :D <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:51, 21 January 2010
 * arguing with admins and calling them names is even more dumb. ^ -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  20:52, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * not if theyre retards. and again, picking one form of ad hom and claiming all other uses of it are wrong is, again, dumb. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 20:52, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ad hominem is not a literary style that can be interpreted. It is a term well used to explain exactly what I just told you. There is no other usage. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:54, 21 January 2010
 * lol @ forms of a phrase with one meaning. -- <font color="#342EFF">Big <font color="#00008B">McStrongfist  20:56, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and again, graduate high school and then you're more than welcome to correct me on literary terms. You may want to take a few years of Greek and Latin first, though. Just to catch up. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">20:57, 21 January 2010
 * Good--<font color="#b22222"> X 21:04, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

can we swing the topic back to Frosty's RfBM instead of the meaning of Latin phrases? By all means keep arguing but take it to someones talk =p. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  21:06, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^I agree with Phen! --Crow 21:08, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * sorry phen, retards telling me a phrase can only have one meaning, and that i haven't graduated high school. gets on my tits. need more votes on la page! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:10, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see the problem with Frosty having a 200% vote--<font color="#b22222"> X 21:13, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm still thinking it over. I'd love to hear from Frosty, as to why he thinks he should have it. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:16, 21 January 2010

tbh
does anyone have a support reason that isn't "lolpvx", "fsc", "fsg", or "he already does everything bm's do because he already can do everything bm's can do"? inb4 200% vote - it's such a stupid thing given that it isn't hard to MSN someone and tell them to copypaste your vote. =/ ···  Danny So Cute   17:42, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's really simple...do you think Frosty should have BM status? People have there reasons...what is yours?--<font color="#b22222"> X  18:14, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^If you disagree with having BMs at all then just deal with trying to get the position removed. Opposing somebody because you don't like a position or they can already do half of it is dumb Danny. Stop being dumb. --Crow 18:24, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * He can already do everything a BM can do, actually. ···  Danny So Cute   19:10, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * and more, admins have the last say in build deletion - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 19:14, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, it's a clear reason for oppose - the less bm's we have, the less of a reason it is to keep the position. ···  Danny So Cute   19:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If BMs are going to be removed, it's irrelevant whether there are 3, 4 or 5 active BMs; they will still get removed. Right now you're specifically going onto Frosty's rfbm and opposing, which means you are against him being a BM because he shouldn't be one, if you're that against having BMs it's obvious you won't start supporting people. So voting with the reason of "he's the best candidate for the role but I hate the role so I oppose" is illogical. Just leave out voting on rfbms and just try to get the position itself removed. --Crow 19:32, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * So far, the only support votes are what I pointed out above. My fallacious reasoning isn't any worse. :< ···  Danny So Cute   19:41, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

on another note, this rfbm was in absolutely no way supposed to resolve the issues of BM (as per lau's vote). i tried to make it very clear that he deserves BM, even if the position is dumb we can fix that later, he's still well deserving. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:01, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I certainly agree that Frosty should be given the rights he already has. ···  Danny So Cute   21:04, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "hey DE, we won't give you BM since you already have admin, no biggy tho bro ye?" &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:12, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * the point was (is) he'd get the 200% vote weighting. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  21:12, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Second, there has been a lot of talk about BMs not being able to get respect because they don't have enough power. While i completely disagree with the talk surrounding this idea, for those worried about it this would help to resolve that situation. By putting Frosty in power maybe people will start to respect the position more."


 * "on another note, this rfbm was in absolutely no way supposed to resolve the issues of BM"


 * orly? <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:16, 22 January 2010
 * are you kidding? me saying "this may help to resolve some of the problems" isn't the same as "hey im rfbming him to fix the position." and you say i take shit out of context. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:19, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but how are they out of context? You just said that your intention was not to resolve the BM issues; however, your 2nd reason behind RfBM'ing (your 2nd original intention) was that it could "help to resolve that situation". That's the most in context statement I think I have ever quoted you on. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:23, 22 January 2010
 * what i said was the point of the rfbm is not to fix buildmasters, but that it could fix them. if you can't tell a difference then just stop talking. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:27, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * "the point of the rfbm is not to fix buildmasters, but that it could fix them"

meant that your reasoning for RfBM had nothing to do with fixing it...not even in the possible future....even though you said it "could". <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate  <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:35, 22 January 2010
 * Oh, I see. By using a conditional future verb, you believe that it negates your first statement entirely. Oh ok. I'll keep that in mind from now on. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:31, 22 January 2010
 * so what you said was that you want him to be a BM in the hopes that it fixes the role? and it would fix it by putting in place a BM who has admin powers? i hope you see what i'm getting at. ···  Danny So Cute   21:33, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * im saying the point of him being a build master is because hes a good player, but that i could also fix the role. im saying that hes not there just to fix it, but thats a helpful side effect. kj apparantly cant tell the difference. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:35, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess I just thought that the statement, "this rfbm was in absolutely no way supposed to resolve the issues of BM"
 * its not supposed to be here to fix BM, its here because hes a good player. does that mean it can't fix BM? no. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:38, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, but that was one of your reasons....and then you said it wasn't in order to refute Lau...however, now you're saying it is again? I'm lost. <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:39, 22 January 2010
 * I think he's attempting to say that Frostels RfBM isnt an action directly intended to help sort out the problems with BM (despite half the people on the "support" side also quoting that is is [but it only becomes an issue when Lau uses it as a opposing reason!]) but that it 'may do it anyway (and he spent a long paragraph on the RfBM saying it may). Supported by terrible wording makes for an exciting roundabout argument - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 21:47, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * He is a good obser and probably a good player, too, but that's hardly means he needs 200% vote. ···  Danny So Cute   21:39, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

what more do you want from a bm then? @danny. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:43, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't want a BM at all, actually. That's my entire point. ···  Danny So Cute   21:44, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Or, inversely, I want a BM, but only if that BM would qualify additionally as an admin. ···  Danny So Cute   21:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * any frosty doesnt qualify as both because...? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:45, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because - and this may come as a surprise - he can already do everything a BM can do. Including vote 200% if he feels like MSNing me. ···  Danny So Cute   21:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * so DE shouldnt have been BM because he was an admin, despite being worthy of both? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gringo (talk &bull; contribs) (UTC). 21:51, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * nah. not really any need. he could do the exact same things as an admin. ···  Danny So Cute   21:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbh, read my vote. I don't think the position should exist either; however, based on the current policies and procedures of the wiki, there's no reason he shouldn't be one. Unless the position is removed, there's no real reason to vote against him (unless he's terrible at builds). <font color="Black" face="cambria">Karate [[File:KJ for sig.png]] <font color="Black" face="cambria">Jesus  <font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">21:46, 22 January 2010

Like KJ just said, if you are voting because you feel the BM position should be removed, that is a little unfair as this rfbm has nothing to do with it, and opposing because I am an admin and already have the ability to remove votes isn't an argument, infact it's not the point since it doesn't matter whether I am an admin or not. --<font color="Black">Frosty  22:57, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then my oppose will be disregarded, most likely. Fact is - there's a reason you opposed my most recent RfA and I fully understand and agree with your position on the matter, and I feel the same applies here. There's really just nothing that would change by giving you BM. :< ···  Danny So Cute   23:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, referring to your clarification, it's not like people don't still call Crow or Lau suk nobs and it's not like the weighting really makes much of a difference. If you really need 200%, just MSN me. ;o ···  Danny So Cute   23:13, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * ^ admins are respected more than BMs, so its totally wrong. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 23:14, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Won't do anything?
It would give Frosty a 200% vote AND with admin tools be able to control things better--<font color="#b22222"> X 00:28, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * This whole RfBM basically just lets Frosty have 200% votes, and policy encourages him to votesmash more. That's about it. -- Chaos  -- 01:16, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Point being I didn't think it would be THAT big of a deal as long as he is lvl headed...which I think he is. That was my point--<font color="#b22222"> X  15:37, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as this shitstorm as sort of started
I have decided to decline for now, and believe it is of higher priority to sort the actual BM issues out. So perhaps when we have a new system up and running here I will give it a whirl, thanks for everyone who discussed/voted. --<font color="Black">Frosty  01:38, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * no problem frost! ^_________^ ···  Danny So Cute   19:55, 25 January 2010 (UTC)