Archive talk:Team - UW Terraway/Archive 2

Why does Pits use Brawler's Insignias?
I noticed how the Pits Tank is using Brawler's Insignias as opposed to Nightstalker's Insignias. They both only affect the character while attacking, but Nightstalker's gives +5 armor compared to Brawler's Insignias. Any specific reason as to why that is the case? --Wolfdm3 17:10, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Blessed Insignias would also be an alternative to Brawler's, since you wouldn't have to melee in order to have increased armor at all times.--Wolfdm3 23:41, May 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Someone's a cheapskate? No good reason.  Use nightstalkers. 71.146.65.151 01:09, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Builds and Armor
This section is meant to have a better overview in the discussion about the builds.

Labyrinth Team

 * / Shadow Form tank
 * He should have 105 hp armor. Shouldn't that be on the page to? And if you use Mental Block, Shadow Refuge isn't needed. And can anyone put the E/Me version on the page? F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 105 hp is for nabs. Standard health, only SoD as heal and you should be fine. Don't forget blessed armor+a +10 AL vs slashing. Grasps shud hit 2 at max. Get channeling instead.... It makes life lots easier. Falrach 20:28, May 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * / Emo Bonder
 * Can't Elemental Lord be kicked for Essence Bond? This will extend the time the Elementalist can bond the Tank. F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * if you can't keep bonds up you should uninstall. Nuff said. Falrach 20:31, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Vale Team

 * / SoS
 * / SS Necromancer
 * / SS Necromancer

T1 Wastes

 * / Obsidian Flesh Terra
 * / Shadow Form Variant
 * Shouldn't it be: Glyph of Lesser Energy, Ebon Battle Standard of Honor, Sliver Armor? As BuH + Intensity doesn't boost the damage that much, it does consume far more energy and Intensity can only be used once every 36 seconds. F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * BUH and int ignore SF's dmg cap until you recast SF. Falrach 20:32, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * BUH and int ignore SF's dmg cap until you recast SF. Falrach 20:32, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

T2 Mountains

 * / Obsidian Flesh Terra
 * What happened to this variant? F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Obby Flesh doesnt allow people to attack so making a flesh terra useless for mtns because you are required to interrupt their traps.


 * / Shadow Form Variant
 * Do you really need heart of shadow? You got enough heal already. You can better use Glyph of Lesser Energy to be able to spam you Sliver Chain. F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

T3 Pools

 * / Obsidian Flesh Terra
 * / Obsidian Flesh Terra
 * / Shadow Form Variant
 * Do you really need heart of shadow? You got enough heal already. You can better use Glyph of Lesser Energy to be able to spam you Sliver Chain. F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * / Shadow Form Variant
 * Do you really need heart of shadow? You got enough heal already. You can better use Glyph of Lesser Energy to be able to spam you Sliver Chain. F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

T4 Pits

 * / Shadow Form Mesmer
 * And again, someone put Heart Of Shadow in this build. Why? if it is meant as a heal, than use Shadow Sanctuary. Lot better. Must have been someone that really loves Heart of Shadow. F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * / Shadow Form Sliver
 * Same as above. But here is Glyph of Lesser Energy probably better. F.c.sauer 15:35, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

For those 3. HoS is for bjump and in pools, watch DLway pools and you see why it's so good. At T2 usually SoD better but that's all. For T4.... Ez glitching skellies ftw. Might want to change it on A/Me version tho. Falrach 20:39, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Armor of Earth?
Can you use Armor of Earth instead of Stoneflesh Aura? Konschu 18:41, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you really need the dmg reduction at some places. Falrach 05:47, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Update
There was an update wich give mindblades leech signet, i dont know if its a big problem but it hits trough sf and of. --SjoerdieBoy XXL 09:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sliver too. 204.87.204.110 20:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Run an A/Me or E/Me with Mantra of Resolve. Take an e-management skill also. Zedone2 03:13, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just go a/e with GoLE and yu shud be fine, someone update the builds....im too frikking lazy (and I still gotta make like 3 builds that are in my head for some time) Falrach 05:30, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Use Glyph of concentration.... Prob solved.


 * Glyph every spell you want to cast? fun fun. Zedone2 09:23, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Yes the pits sin takes glyph istead of IAU. iau is for noobs. and cast shadowform shroud and sliver. dont need stoneflesh for planes. in pits you simply dont use glyph. and it has a perfect recharge time to cast sf and sliver. my opinion its the best resolution. def better then mantra. thats just retarted.
 * Leech Signet interrupts any action, not just spells. Have you tested running plains with Glyph of Conc or is this just a theorycraft? 91.176.90.15 06:59, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

E/Me lab tank is now, as it has always been, much better than a/me... new sliver ftw? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.112.9.54 (talk &bull; contribs) 02:08, June 1, 2010 (UTC).

Leech Signet doesnt interrupt GoC!88.78.213.88 21:47, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, well I just ran a 50min clear with seperste plains sin with no stoneflesh but GoC. Worked well, and I popes quick. The mtns sin does mtns then goes to poolsand does that. All other areas do their normal areas. My R\A wastes did solo wastes quest as well. Works nice. Whirling defenses lasts perfectly long enough tokill all 3 skeles. Could be looking at faster runs then b4 nerf.

Rangers
how well does the melandrus resilience ranger hold up, and could someone post videos of other areas apart from wastes Zedone2 03:25, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's only good for wastes really. If you need to cover someone, you would have to use the E/R build. Ju ze JuzeAvatar.jpg 09:12, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Mtns + Pools
Can't we fix up the builds for this? It's one of the most common team setups for Mountains terra to do Pools. Here's the build:

This is what my friends use. Ju ze  09:39, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is my take:
 * Why? Because Radiation Field is NOT needed. It is helpful for pools but when you are doing mountains, it is useless. +7 natural health regen eats up radiation field, even at its full potential (causing -10 health degen after recast). Most of the time, Obsidian Behemoths spawn right next to each other. However, at most three behemoth's Healing Springs will heal any one obsidian behemoth. Once you reposition yourself, EBSOH+Sliver should damage one behemoth. Now you're press TAB like crazy to find the next healing spring to strike. You can never really catch 3 at a time and if you do, it took 300 hours. What I do is I take YMLAD in place of Radiation Field and have my char attacking one behemoth while keeping my target on another. When the other one uses Healing Spring, I knock it down with YMLAD. In this way, I finish mountains often before restore is popped. However, it does leave you with the tiny burden of having to sliver down the dryders, but in most cases, you can do this before team ever finishes.
 * In addition, you can actually finish Terrorweb Queen yourself, but if you're in a good group that isn't wiping, don't bother. It takes a good 10 minutes to do so. just pull skeles one by one and sliver them down (after you make sure no grasping darknesses or white-colored Terrorweb Dryders will affect sliver). Cope Land 12:40, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good luck doing 45 minute mtnspools runs. there are ranging 12-18 minute mtnspools with rad field
 * actually, you still can reach that time without radfield, just dont suck at scattering em. run up, pull em to far wall, hos down and dc up as soon as they start to scatter. you kill last 1-2 by tanking em in front of reaper. also, using HoS to jump up the wall and break aggro /win. Falrach 05:37, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * your gunna need luck and skill to barely pull off a 17 or 18 minute run with ymlad while rad is average 16 or 15 if done right Amethyst Sorrow 06:29, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * FH is your friend, its the most pro of em all, allowing the kill of multiple behes with 1 sliver if your pro, 5 min mnts pop all the way. Falrach 18:42, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * FH may be awesome for mtns but its nab for pools, with radifeld you can get close to a 13 minute run, like just today Shoot Low got a 14 minute mtnspools with rad field however with fh the fastest you could get is 16 or 17. Amethyst Sorrow 20:45, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * FH may be awesome for mtns but its nab for pools, with radifeld you can get close to a 13 minute run, like just today Shoot Low got a 14 minute mtnspools with rad field however with fh the fastest you could get is 16 or 17. Amethyst Sorrow 20:45, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Back into testing
Putting up the currently used builds and a few possible variants as well as fixing formatting, tactics, and tutorial videos. I'll post the new E/R and A/R builds & tactics as I get my hands on them.--TahiriVeila 02:05, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fix up necro? Dunno whats going on there, whether its supposed to be /rit or /mes, and skillbar/attributes. Zedone2 08:20, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * There must be a mix up with the T2 and T3. The T2 is "Mountains/Pools" and the T3 is supposed to pop Pools as well... It's confusing. Which one is supposed to do Pools or do they both do it? Nialiss 17:40, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was banned yesterday, I would have reverted all this because Auron said on MSN he doesn't care even a bit about PvE crap and vandalism on wiki. Also, I'm taking this to trial. And the new LT build sucks. Take a look at this screenshot. Ju ze JuzeAvatar.jpg 10:14, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Quick! Tell your buds how mean everyone on PvX is! Your mates saying your build is better than some other one is hardly convincing. Try providing actual evidence. Misery  15:36, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Add exta skill to optionals.../FACEPALM-- X  TREME 16:02, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Bloodsong
For what godly reason would you not have bloodsong on main bar??????-- X  TREME 13:19, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

whirling
Couldnt a whirling ranger do a better job at mnts/pools than a perma since all the foes in the area are projictile's sure he wouldnt have armor of earth but he can take great dwarf armor or mental block--Jpuzimaki13 20:45, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Problem is that r/a needs corn+egg to maintain and no one wants to blow that much cash on a uw run that's going to fail anyways. Life   Guardian  20:49, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * dang guardian that relpy was quick and to reply to that why would he need any corn or eggs if perma can be maintained at 12 attribute beside you alread waste eggs and such for fowsc and other sc runs such as that. or an e/r with obsidian. well here look at this video

thumb|340px|right It's just an idea mind you--Jpuzimaki13 20:57, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It could probably work well on a R/A. i'm not sure you'd have enough agro to do mountains well/quickly though.--TahiriVeila 23:55, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * R/A can't maintain SF without either deadly paradox or corn+egg. Life   Guardian  00:17, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Where are you getting this from.... it is possible to maintain sf with just bu yes candy or egg would garantee easy to maintain. but we are talking about obsidian flesh instead so that he can have armor of earth or stoneflesh plus silver. although yes they might need candy but they only cost 100-400g each so what youl be gettin a lot back in return even if your group fails.(unless at the begining when clearing chambers).--Jpuzimaki13 00:38, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also using an ele primary instead of ranger would garantee energy maintaing during entire run.--Jpuzimaki13 00:41, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Recharge of SF after cons is 24. Shadow form at 13 with an enchanting mod lasts 22.8. It's not maintainable unless you hit 15 shadow arts. At 14, it's duration is 24, which gives you .8 seconds to be casted on/rupted. R/A has more than enough survivability which makes r/e kind of a waste. The candy has to be refreshed for an hour which ends up being more than you gain =\ Life   Guardian  01:13, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * you need whirling defense on for more than ~20 seconds?-- Relyk  talk  01:23, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Life E/R not R/a or R/e I said that ele primary is best and you use obi flesh like the video i just showed. you, you can then maintain obisidian, tank, take dwarven stability and honor and use whirling defense and silver armor. next i would like to point this out life you can maintain sf at 13 attribute. just means you dont have that extra 2-4seconds to wait and cast jsut means you need to cast immediatly.if you dont believe me make a pvp sin with a +1 shadow arts and of enchanting wep take glyph of swiftness and see for yourself. r/a does not have enough defense for mnts from the slayer and the behemoths. --Jpuzimaki13 01:56, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Glyph is 25% bro, not 20% like an essence. R/A can just lolblind them and can keep WD up except like a 4 second downtime or sth if you have max dwarven. I think you'll live. Also, by the looks of it you have to sacrifice EBSoH, which is not good. Do you need goc for mnts/pools to run through plains? Life   Guardian  02:02, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah i was about to say that soz for misunderstanding. well as i was saying ele or sin can go whirling. you wont need goc for running thru plains just need to cast everything befor aggroing that spawn of mindblades at pools also you should take buh instead of ebsoh cause ebsoh will not increase dmg of whirling only buh. e/r with whirling like in the video (minus the troll uegen+which can be replace with ebsoh or buh) can do mnts and pools simple and easy without a problem which im trying to get at whirling can wipe all of the dryders in 1 quick move instead of needing to spam sliver for over 5-10min.--Jpuzimaki13 02:16, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

T1 WASTE IDEA
couldnt the waste terra instead of taking buh and optional take crystalwave and its duplicaTE SKILL TO DEAL 212 armor ignoring damage energy wouldnt be a problem would it since your converting all the damage to earth and gaing 4e every hit. any ideas?--Jpuzimaki13 06:56, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Mtns + pools
If I'm aware, Mtns + Pools doesn't need Armor of Earth at all. Ju ze  09:58, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

For Slayer its needed but team can do this q than AoE can be changed.Blacc 10:11, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Slayer would kick your butt if you dont have armor of earth.--66.69.115.252 15:39, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, this is false. Slayer does not kill you if you don't have armor of earth. You can put up IAU and use Death's Charge/Heart of Shadow when necessary. Shroud of Distress blocks most of his attacks that do 40-70 damage max. I've killed it many times with just Shroud of Distress and Shadow Form then Sliver Armor when it recharges. 128.62.41.74 10:27, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

SoS Ranger?
I tried to SoS with my ranger, it worked. I tried both (rt and ranger)...well ranger can spam skills w/o possible energy problems...Maybe we could post this variant, i just used Gaze of Fury over Rupture and Spirit Rift as optional, if u r interested i can ping the code...Experience makes spirits energy cost 2-3 so u can spam ur dmg skill...Is just to extend the playable professions... Giuliokuro
 * Reason being the sos a rit is cause spawning give the spirits +health so that means sos can be a fall back tank or use the sos as a wall while he runs a way to drop aggro using a ranger would just mean the enemy would just have to look aat your spirits for them to die(im being over dramatic)giving you little chance to run away.--66.69.115.252 15:37, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well...Spwning bonus is not so high and it always depends on the SoS...for exp people ranger is more recomended because of his higher offensive power(+energy = spirit rift spam and that can deal great damage). We can post the build and write the difference(and recomend the rt one for beginners...) Anyway ranger spirits gives you enough time to run away and you ll have more damage from EoE using ranger runes....Giuliokuro

T3
can we get a more in-depth discription of the plains job cause even though you just say pop the reaper. your going to have to kill riders and thos 3 spanws of mind-blades that pop when killing them. or do we not kill them?
 * go to the monument. kill everything around it. first the wailing lords, then one banished riders and all its mindlade popups, then the next banished rider. do not kill the banished dream riders just off to the sides in that narrow strip of landing connecting the monument area to the rest of plains. they are needed for 4h. 128.62.41.74 10:27, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * don't kill all 3 spawns just glitch Gift X 15:48, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

LT Equipment
Could someone add the LT equipment plz.. ,- Konschu  20:38, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did it, and before anyone cries, 105 hp is completely unnecessary and stupid. Falrach 10:25, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats not what I meant.. Dyou just need full blessed or other runes? ,- Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 18:01, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Full Blessed. It makes it lots easier for emo since prot bond is triggered lots less then. Falrach 18:58, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tyvm! ,- Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 8:43, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vanguard Armor is where its at. Amethyst Sorrow 02:22, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

E/Me LT?
I always use this, I don't see why it can't be a variant. As far as I'm concerned, its not that much harder.

[build prof=e/me earthmagic=12+1+3 inspirationmagic=9 dominationmagic=9][obsidian flesh][stoneflesh aura][mantra of resolve][channeling][empathy][wastrels worry][soothing images][sliver armor][/build] 174.112.9.54 20:56, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * well its only hard on the emo, because during UWG he has to spam hardcore because those vengefuls can hit pretty hard. and escort can be a little hard for new people. 99.27.91.242 02:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

R/A T4
Can do duos. Pits it can do backside, bow and center, and in planes it can do both sides. I prolly have a screenshot lying round to probe it which I'll upload when I got access to my pc again. Falrach 06:30, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Duh =P It can be a bit faster than A/E too which is nice.--TahiriVeila 07:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * tell the guy that keeps reverting it. think he's bad and never saw a good person do it. Falrach 11:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Re-add it please. I've asked him to stop removing it, if he continues I'll contact an admin.--TahiriVeila 06:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for calling me bad Falrach, really nice. <font color="Blue">"DJ Aman' <font color="Blue">talk ''  05:49, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Record?
Whats the current record of tway? ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu  17:56, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * not sure but I know sub-30 times have been done and 40-min times are pretty easy.--TahiriVeila 18:02, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * 22 min is current record, both attained by [DL] and [Lod]. Falrach 21:06, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * With tway? I know DL has gotten a 20-minute record but that's with a pretty significant variation on Tway.--TahiriVeila 05:09, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't find DL's pics atm. Falrach 07:11, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * 19 min now Falrach 14:03, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Huge pull
Is it possible to get all the mindblades in escort in one ball w/o losing the aggro of some? ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu  20:30, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * not as far as I know. Maybe with 105 hp armor but that's all I can think of. Falrach 23:42, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Why could you do it maybe with 105hp armor? ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 13:20, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Low health makes AI follow you longer, it has been possible to pull both the start room, wastes room and reaper room aggro in 1 ball if you kept health around 100 in old UW. You needed some luck for that tho. Falrach 14:44, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Ele T3
[build prof=E/A sha=12 ear=12+1+3 energy=3][Shroud of Distress@15][Shadow Form@15][Glyph of Concentration][Sliver Armor@19]["By Ural's Hammer!"]["Finish Him!"][Heart of Shadow@15][Death's Charge@15][/build] ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu  12:41, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you gonna keep SF up with PCons? Also should the E/Me be mainbar for T1?--GWPirate 12:54, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Konschu...all sin bars can be run by E/A's or Me/A's. idgaf bout what's mainbar. Falrach 14:01, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

T1 wastes, gliph?
Imo is something useless....just bring stone daggers to spamm xx+ damage on everything (skeles take 33x2 damage/second) or if you really want an attribute boost bring elemental lord so you get few heal too...but honestly you can do it all with just sliver and stone dagger.Light Athena II 22:37, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * May work, but glyph helps to maintain enches95.118.13.38 12:00, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well,in my opinion you need replace a source of damage with a source of damage, +2 attributes can help to maintain enchants that you can easy maintain without nothing.I just suggest to bring another aoe skill or stone dagger to kill skeles easier,dont really need a boost of +2 attribute.Light Athena II 09:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

BuH rework
Has the nerf to BuH prevented any mobs at all in UW to die on one trigger of SA?  Minion  13:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It just fucks up suicideway glyphsin but pugs don't do that and guilds just run an ele so meh. Falrach 22:23, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Me/Rt SS
Is this build recomended? which is better? N/Rt or Me/Rt? Is the Me/Rt build used only when N/Rts aren't available? 68.226.81.225 01:20, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * they both work, tho i prefer the cleanup power of n/rt. Falrach 10:07, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

area glitching
is it just me, or is it a glitch that when i go to pools, there are mindblades following me and rupting my skills, aswell as when i die, charged blacknesses just stay on my corpse. is it me or the game? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.118.246.196 (talk &bull; contribs) 01:41, 21 April 2011.
 * Try popping a cupcake. They pop when you go round the corner thingy where riders are. Precast your stuff Dc rider and run to pools. Charged's their aggro just doesn't reset when they lose it. Aggro of stuff in UW is some of the weirdest in GW. Falrach 13:56, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Dervish Spiker
Hey, the derv spiker build seems not to be optimal to me, but i like the idea. We do with our guild an UWSC variant with 2 Dervish spikers, and the damage from sand shards vos splinter and honor is enough for a spike, Terrorwebs are spiked in 1 hit, but mindblades, graspings and aaxte's you'll need some more time. I'll post my variant here:

[build prof=Dervish/Any earthpray=12+1+3 scythe=12+1 myst=3+1][Sand Shards][Vow of Strength][Staggering Force][Eremite's Attack][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Pain Inverter][Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]


 * Death's Charge, if bringing ress scrolls to spike faster and be able to step in the middle of the ball for a better spike instead of Flesh of My Flesh

The Ritualist should take Splinter Weapon instead of Ancestor's Rage.Sjan


 * Isn't it terrible anyway? it seems kinda extremely useless in most of vale, as you want to be outside melee range so they attack the spirits. you would need to constantly run in and out which seems inefficient to me. Falrach 19:08, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I think we have to test that, you can spike pretty fast so we will see, i hope:) Sjan

Tested it, Spikes are the best. Vale just first groups can be difficult for some people. Garden pull and spike them. But thinking about a self heal but for what skill. You regain your health at the groups in vale that dont attack you should be full health. I used my vampiric Scythe. Splinter isn't needed but it more dammage in vale too on 2+ foes. And I heard too that [Lod] used a similar dervish vos spike before i was with them in a run. I think the build should be improved and added whenever its the best. Sjan 14:42, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Why are EBSoH AND EBSoW required? Honor is a waste of a skill, I am the Strongest will do more damage and cost less energy. However, you could also take it and leave out wisdom since you're purely phsyical, assuming your LT/SoS are fine with that, which they should be. Either way, IatS! is a much better replacement for one or both of your standards. I'll be trying an IatS/LoD variant in a moment, I'll update on that as well. DarkNe7h 07:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ebsow is for dhuum, and unlike iats EBSoH affects vow of strength, sand shards and every attack past the first 8/16. Falrach 09:15, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Armor for t1 ranger
What armor and runes/insignias should the wastes R/A bring? --77.208.204.11 13:25, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * full blessed, +4 exp and health. I also got a 20% cripple reduction for T2&4&FoW. You might want a anti cold set and (if soloing Q) a health boost set. Falrach 16:05, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Another Mesmer Spike build
[build prof=Mesmer/Ritualist fas=9+1 insp=9+1 dom=12+3+1][Lyssa's Aura][Arcane Echo][wastrels worry][wastrels demise][Empathy][Pain Inverter][Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom][Flesh of my Flesh][/build]

I think this one is better than the esurge spiker build, just precast lyssa and arcane echo and spam Wrastel's Worry with Tab and sometimes Wrastel's demise if you have seen that a foe just used a skill. At mindblades just spam until he has the hex and when you have seen he has hex breaker. Empathy & PI for single target damage. In vale just maintain lyssa's and spam wrastel's worry and at dhuum you use PI and wisdom too:) You might think the skills will fail often because they use skills, it doesn't. Sjan 21:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Well having just wastrels worry and wastrels demise is NOT a good spike. Even with destruction it simple is in no possible way better than a dwg or an e surge. I mean in fast runs we have a pits ele that have those 2 skills just to contribute a bit to the first spike and in no way could it be a full spike in good time. Especially at escort, it would just be much slower. But thats just my two cents. Oh btw i've never posted on pvx so im a complete nub at it.
 * i don't know but i whas in the run with this guy and his builds pwns esurge does arround 110-120 not sure and wastrel worry too and you can keep spiking it even at dhuum. I did this In combination with max asuran for pi and i needed to help with rest cause i alrdy killed dhuum so it speeds up dhuum and is stronger then esurge (maybe even better then DwG dont wanna say it too hard) btw annonymous above plz sign your comments with 4x ~ so we can reply on you Tim 20:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw someone running this while I was SoS or Emo, not sure which. I didnt really think it was that great. The spikes were a little slow and I cant see this dealing with foes like Terrorwebs too well. It would be really good in vale tho. I think we failed before we got there. Joe the pirate 02:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It depends on how you use it and if the balled foes uses skills, i think now it isn't puggable enough and the ES is just fine, but ofcourse you can use it, because vale, and dhuum is easier because you can use wastrels worry on recharge. <font color="##157DEC">Sjan  [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 15:35, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Dervish Variants for T3+T4
well, seeing as dervishes can farm plains, and pits too probably, why not use a dervish with the right skills? please dont make the elite to sf, cause that just ruins the prupose. here are the builds: [build prof=d/a myst=11+1+3 scythe=10 earthprayers=10][vow of silence][vow of piety][signet of mystic speed][radiant scythe][victorious sweep][mystic regeneration][death's charge][heart of shadow][/build] [build prof=d/a myst=11+1+3 scythe=10 earthprayers=10][vow of silence][vow of piety][heart of holy flame][farmer's scythe][banishing strike][mystic regeneration][death's charge][heart of shadow][/build]

PLEAZE POST CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIZM ONLY PLEAZE!!!
 * Have you tested it in a UWSC run? Thank You. btw create account or login please. <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 10:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The reason its not efficient is that its bad in covering, not fast and that it cant do duos. Which makes it inferior to every bar currently on the page. You can even do a duo with the monk bar if you got skillz. 82.95.65.117 13:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * So did you test it? <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 14:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not the guy that posted it. But do you need to test to see what I just said? I haven't even UW'd in 3 months but it's still obvious. 82.95.65.117 14:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this isn't the best build for it, that's the reason why i think we should test it. I think 4h will be doable too because if you are able to prevent rupts (redrock?), then you can skeleton's easily which is 4h for the biggest part, even duo pits center might be doable ,shouldn't be that hard <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 14:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Rupts are prevented with SoMS as far as I can tell. I think it wont be able to do skeles since you cant heal while killing, except for +5 from VoP+cons. It's a funny try but wont work. Falrach 14:25, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Feel No Pain + alcohol! <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 14:27, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about these bars as they're posted right now and srsly, he'll get killed like this. Falrach 14:28, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Tested it, with a different build ofcourse got the monument cleared in 10 minutes. It's not slower and maybe intimitading aura will work better than shroud(what i used), i think dervishes have potential at least as t4. Holy Damage ftw <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 09:50, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You do know a ranger/good elly is ready for duos at 9 right? Sins are at 11 or sth afaik Falrach 11:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Derv is probaly not the fastest but just like the monk t1, a fun and decent variant. <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 19:31, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * im the guy who posted it, and i cant cause im in turkey.i will test it when i get back. pits is possible, cause you can kill the skele ina farm. still the same guy, i edited the builds cause i realized that you cant cast dc and hos under vos.... i do know that with piety and mystic regen, you can easily do a true duo. you dont need ia for pits cause you have soooo much regen.the only problem is wondering if you can recasst the skills under VoS.

Shadow Walk will make you able to step, are you sure you can survive this way? because i popped pits with shroud and i could just keep it up, and in 4h there are rupts, didnt test if they rupt you. They will probaly. SoMS FTW. <font color="##157DEC">Sjan  19:31, 2 July 2011 (UTC) well, you could replace farmers scythe for soms, but you dont need shadow walk for a shadow step to glitch the skeles. you could kill the skeles. if you clear the rest of pits first, then you could probably kill all three skeles in one go.. thanks so much for testing it whilke im on vacatıon. tbh, there are no rupts, but the four horsies have humility signet, which will disable your elite. maybe using extend enchants instead of soms? its almost midnight over, and i might not respond till four. but it would be great if you could keep testing it.
 * You do need a shadowstep to unstuck and the horsemen have Cry of Frustration, and high fast casting. I'm not sure but i think they will rupt VoS just like the mindblades. What about shroud?<font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 21:14, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * well, you could change wind prayers and earth prayers so you could cast soms and use it to cast up vos and mystic regen in two seconds
 * Their shatter enchantment casts in about 0.2 seconds, and their cry of frustration in 0.1. You'll be fucked anyway. Something that doesn't work doesn't work. Falrach 14:21, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * falrach, i will ignore yournegetivity, because if you can farm plains with pretty much the same build,you could do a truo duo. i would test it out, but im on vacation.
 * You cant. Simply because Riders have too much health to take down in 1 Regen with a scythe and when you've got to recast it you have a problem. They will wand you to death if you dont recast, and shatter if you do. Either way it's a lost battle. Falrach 15:11, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * not really, but whateer. howabout you try it yourself. and actually try, and have sjan be t3. im sorry, sjan, but i need somebody that i can trust that will make sure that he does his job and not screw up on purpose. thanks.
 * I think you should do it first and just try a 4h with back up of course, t3 won't be as fast in my opinion, T4 will and i was thinking about Pious Concentration with a Flash Enchantment to prevent rupts, and what about Signet of Humility, because you can't recast VoS whenever its up. <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 16:11, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You're assuming that the riders have the exact same bar as the BDR's and are just as easy to kill. They aren't. They've got about 15 times as much HP, if not more. HM will raise their armor even more making you deal less damage. They use Sig of Humility like Sjan said, which disables VoS if you dont recast it on recharge. And last but not least, for true duos you will have to fight the 2 skeles in a row, while already tanking the riders for so long that regen has worn off. You will die, and even if you for some reason dont, you will take about 6-7 minutes to just kill the riders. It does not work, and even if it did it would be so slow that it is just a waste of cons. Falrach 16:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Forget the 4h, a friend of mine came up with a new idea: T2: Mnts-4h-Sliver down queen T3: pop plains-4H-Clean, Glitch Pits as much as you can T4( The dervish):Pop Pits-Pop pools, take quest or clean as much as you can(should be tested how many etc). You could take T4 dervishes in casual runs/pug. Here is the build:

[build prof=D/A sha=11 scy=10 win=4 mys=9][Shroud of Distress][Vow of Silence][Vow of Piety][Signet of Mystic Speed][Optional][Optional][Banishing Strike][Death's Charge][/build]
 * IAU
 * Reaper Impurties+ Cripling Victory
 * Heart of Holy Flame
 * Victorious Sweep

Updated the dervish T4 build with the tactics i think are the best for dervish T4, i have been told that they are able to do Duo 4h, not sure.--<font color="##157DEC">Sjan  19:18, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

QZ
If I take Quickening Zephyr does the E/Mo have to do anything special (like bond it)? Joe the pirate 13:34, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * How would you bond a spirit? o.O Falrach 14:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess you cant then. So there must be nothing special needed? Joe the pirate 18:30, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe use a golden egg or popcorn for more energy from ER, but nothing especially (remind +30% energy cost due to QZ). And no, you cant bond a spirit (you cant enchant it^^) actually it is a pro because your er reloads faster so you can wait for weight of dhuum and use ER afterwards. Not needed but helpful. The Sense of Life 18:58, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If taking QZ you should make sure all you terras have a zealous spear so they don't run out of energy from spamming rest and QZ should also be cast immediately after Judgement so that QZ will always be up. 24.136.142.222 20:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Stones
Groups always ask whether you have "stones" with you or not - what stones are they referring to? 92.26.222.53 18:23, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ghastly Stones ([]) rewarded from uw chest (or bought from other players) The Sense of Life 18:58, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Dervish Spiker
I really don't feel this Dervish VoS spikers is in the right place here. There is already a UW VoS way so. I think this one must be deleted? Eiion X 12:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, there is a DWG way for UW and that doesnt mean DWG should get deleted. I do think VoS needs more testing and usage to be kept on the page though. 68.226.81.225 02:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)edit: wiki logged me out,sorry Joe the pirate 02:11, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I added this build, and know how to use it well. I can try to make a video<font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 08:32, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds good to me. I'd like to try it out but do you think ebon escape is replacable with flesh of my flesh? Im not gonna bother if it requires res scrolls. Joe the pirate 13:29, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it is, but you might need another heal skill then, instead of Grenth's Aura, because EE is a fast heal too. A friend of mine used Mystic Healing, but that's slower, just check some skills yourself, also depends on what SoS and the emo want to take <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 15:26, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Video will be added soon. --<font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 21:13, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Dervish T3/T4 Builds
I've seen some people do them efficiently and in good time. What happened to the the builds.

Enchanter's Conundrum
What about Enchanter's Conundrum for mesmer? it recharges faster than Esurge, does more damage than Esurge, and only foes in chamber/vale that have enchants are terrorwebs which aren't a big problem and tortured spirits which I only use WW to kill 92.83.252.238 21:21, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Chamber Tank
Signet of mystic speed derv variant perhaps? It seems safer to me than depending on mantra of resolve and unnaturally high energy. Also, eremite's zeal is a very nice energy recovery skill considering the enemy numbers. Just a thought. Innoruuk 23:50, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I doubt that would be possible because it would require you to use melee to kill all of your keepers. Having to use melee to kill the keepers will put you in skeleton aggro on every keeper except the basement one which will almost always result in death. 24.136.143.125 00:36, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you never killed a skele on a derv? If you dump 12 into wind prayers the attack speed lets you outrace the skeleton's armor-ignoring skills. Also, if you gather aatxes around you, using said grenth's aura can steal 18 from each of those getting you at least 108 health. That said I prefer Dervish primary because then you can abuse Mysticism and use banishing strike to own any skele in less than 4 hits. Idk, was merely an idea. Innoruuk 01:27, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It could be possible, but i think Aura Slicer and Reap imp you be used then, use the vengefulls to kill the skeleton's + keepers, but what exact build were you thinking to use because Grasping's and Aaxte's can interrupt SoMS. <font color="##157DEC">Sjan [[File:Rsz 160px-dervish-tango-icon-200.png]] 08:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

All not 100% [build prof=D/? scy=12+1 win=3+1 mys=12+1+3][Signet of Mystic Speed][Extend Enchantments][Vow of Silence][Feel No Pain][Aura Slicer][Reap Impurities][Vow of Piety][Intimidating Aura][/build]

or.. [build prof=D/A sha=9 scy=10+1 win=9+1 mys=8+1+3][Grenth's Aura][Vow of Silence][Smoke Powder Defense][Unseen Fury][Vow of Piety][Aura Slicer][Reap Impurities][Signet of Mystic Speed][/build]

or.. [build prof=D/Me ins=9 scy=10+1 win=9+1 mys=8+1+3][Grenth's Aura][Vow of Silence][Mantra of Resolve][Vow of Piety][Mental Block][Aura Slicer][Reap Impurities][Victorious Sweep][/build]

I figured these out they all have it's counters and aren't as good as A/Me, Me/A, Me/E or E/Me. <font color="##157DEC">Sjan  19:21, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * @ Innoruuk or you mean A/D with SoMS? Inferior for sure i guess.<font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  17:45, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Ranger T4
The ranger t4 is rarely used and isn't better nor worth the pcons. <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  15:07, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Perfect Vale Team
[build prof=Rt/N Curse=10 Chan=12+3 Spawn=8][Signet of Spirits][Bloodsong][Destruction][Mark of Pain][Splinter Weapon][Painful Bond][Summon Spirits][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=D/A earthp=12+1+3 Wind=12+1][Vow of Strength][Sand Shards][Staggering Force][Death's Charge] [Eremite's Attack][Pain Inverter][Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom][Grenth's Aura][/build]

MoP ONLY goes on Aatxe. During the pure mindblade spike the SoS should maintain splinter weapon and they should drop in under 6 seconds. This build is easily the best balance of safety, speed, and overall badassery. -Rask75.142.5.119 10:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Why MoP? EoE does the job on spikes just as good, you might need to hit twice with MoP you need a perfect ball tho. <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  20:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * How are those even the safest bars? Using the standard sos with a dwg is easily safer as well as being faster, both for vale and escort as well as being faster at Dhuum with QZ. With that spiker bar you don't even get a hard rez on him. With dwg you do have room for a hard rez as well as not having to be in melee range for the spike. 24.136.143.125 22:25, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

'cleaning up'
Yeah, it absolutely isn't. Is someone gonna do it or am I going to be spending the rest of tomorrow making this page NOT look like a piece of crap? Napalm 07:59, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * you could undo it, because most exp teams know these builds. Or just create a different page for those. WTF Winnowing at T2:P <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  08:35, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Beside the 'exp team' I made more changes lol and I know, but this 'exp variant' is more about having 6 resters, there're a crapload of exp teams that dont use such kind of vale team, I just wanted to add it because its something different. & yeah I know winnowing isnt really the best optional for t2, but if you know how to place it, it can still be quite pwning though. ,- <font color="#571B7e">Konschu [[Image:Assassin's Promise.jpg|19px]] 18:44, Novembre 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Winnowing is slower, it's harder to use. For the exp vale team i'd rather have it stored on a different page. <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  19:02, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok who here agrees with me that this page SOOOOO NEEEEEDSSS to be cleaned up. With any reply I will take this tasks into own hands.Sunny Storms 20:34, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Make a cleaned up version on your userpage and tell us when you're done so I and others can take a look at it and compare with what's on here. Better than getting into revert wars. --  Toraen   talk  20:40, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Can someone check vids aswell please. It's looking like lookicanmakevidstoo-show at some roles. We only need one per profession/role, not fifteen. Falrach 20:32, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Ill try to make some time for that. There are too many videos, but i think most will keep adding them. <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  21:08, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll get some banner up or smth that tells them to stop doing it, we always have revert. Falrach 21:36, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm in the process of redoing this page, i'm making a double on my user page. The way i'm doing it is like this. I'll have a NON EXP TEAMbuilds, and below those i'll have a EXP Teambuild section. and i'm checking the vids at the same time. So just let me do all the work. I'll give you guys a headsup when it done.Sunny Storms 10:07, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps rather than having the ugliest cleanup page I've ever seen, put the PUG builds on the mainpage, and create a subpage at Build:Team - UW Advanced Terraway with the exp builds on. [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain  <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  10:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay check my User page and let me hear what you guys think. I think it's the best solution for a clean up. Basicly two pages in one. NON/SEMIxp and EXPteams. ^^ In my opinion though. the spiker section in EXP needs more trimming. http://www.gwpvx.com/User:Sunny_Storms Sunny Storms 10:20, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Having the full writeup for each on one page isn't the way to go. That page is way too bloated. If the teams are different enough to require a separate writeup, there should be different pages for PuG and Guild teams, whether it be a subpage or two separately rated builds. --  Toraen   talk  14:09, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Well tell me what you guys want, cus i've remade the full Terraway page on my userpage. What i have now though is an NON-SEMI XP BUILDs and EXP BUILDs section. and i've checked all the vids accordingly. it took me close to 3 days to complete so give me a heads up ^^.Sunny Storms 14:54, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Cleaned
41 topics was a bit too much <font color="#ff8c00">S <font color="#ff4700">h <font color="#ff0000">a <font color="#d90000">d <font color="#b20000">o <font color="#8b0000">w  14:18, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

New Remake Terrawaypages
Ok, so i finished the remake of the Terrawaypage. Tell me what you think. I've remade the normal Terrawaypage(non-semi EXP) and this page (EXP!) Please give constructive criticism. Build:Team_-_UW_Advanced_Terraway and Archive:Team - UW Terraway (non-semi EXP) <font color="#ff8c00">S <font color="#ff4700">u <font color="#ff0000">n <font color="#d90000">n <font color="#b20000">y  07:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Splinter Weapon
Out of curiosity, why is it on the ES Mesmer, as well as some of the spiker bars on the advanced page? I don't do these runs anymore, so there may be a reason for using SW that I never saw before. Is it just meant for dealing AoE damage through wanding or something somewhere? O_o Asdf 23:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Also, the second ES bar here doesn't have PI or EBSoW; is it meant for the advanced page, but wss left here as well by accident? Asdf 23:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok to answer your questions.


 * SW removed and Wastrel's Demise put in place. (this is how the build should be.)
 * Pi is taking by the Rit, and EBSoW is taken by the emo.(reason being this give the spiker more chance for damage output.)
 * I hope this clarifies things for you.<FONT COLOR="#ffd700">Su</FONT><FONT COLOR="#9a8238">nn</FONT><FONT COLOR="#332b70">y St</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000046">or</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000017">ms</FONT> 12:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It still seems that the second ES bar was meant to be put on the advanced page; it doesn't/didn't have PI or EBSoW, which the SoS brings in advanced runs, and the bar also has Ebon Escape, which we know non VoS spikers only use in higher end groups to boost time.
 * In the future, are we planning on adding a DwG spiker back, or is that left for the advanced page? Asdf 16:51, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if the DwG spiker will be added again though I don't see why it couldn't be. I also removed the second ESurge spiker because it was geared toward more advanced tactics that should not be on this page, plus by having that spiker bar another SoS bar would have to be added to accommodate for the more advanced spiker bar. DedlyCookie 20:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, the DwG bar will be added back, but only the safe bar slightly modded. Testing as we speak, will upload it first thing tomorrow morning. [[image:Blackout.jpg|20px]] <font color="#ffd700">Su <font color="#9a8238">nn <font color="#332b70">y St <font color="#000046">or <font color="#000017">ms  20:40, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

LT bar with a derv spiker
So the LT bar pretty much has a spare slot as you only need one shadow step and imo PI doesn't feel right on the Derv and he has better options. I'm thinking if the LT takes this bar...

[build prof=A/Me ShadowArts=12+1+3+1 Illusion=11+1 Inspiration=6+1][Shroud of Distress][Shadow Form][Mantra of Resolve][Illusion of Pain][Conjure Nightmare][Accumulated Pain][Pain Inverter][Heart of Shadow][/build]

...then he can glitch at Dhuum and use PI while the Derv dies and becomes a soul. Seeing as most pugs dont glitch as souls this will actually mean you get 1 more player spamming rest for no added difficulty. Then the Derv can take Twin Moon Sweep which will provide you with 2 extra mutli hit skills as it will charge another Whirlwind Attack. You just have to pre cast Staggering so it's off cooldown when you jump in so you can use it for Twin Moon too. Also in vale where you dont have massive balls other than when doing the garden pulls Twiin Moon will be better than eremites

Thoughts?HerpDerp 23:35, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Dervish's are good glitchers, it's helpful that they take Ebsoh. Emo with PI, SoS with QZ and EoE. <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  15:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I completely overlooked the fact that the derv can glitch but it still means the Derv gets an extra slot to work with and the LT doesn't lose anything.HerpDerp 15:45, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Derv Bar
I'm simply wondering why it doesn't see more use. I just did a run with it and the spikes went well, vale was extremely easy, and the mindblades cant really stop you (autoattack once, for clumsiness, then spike).The only problem I found was that it was more fragile vs skeles because you had to be closer. So, why necro over derv?-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  20:51, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Necro is the worst spiker atm by far. But people are used to it. Derv spiker doesn't see much use because people don't see it much. Paradox of pugs. HerpDerp 20:54, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree Dervish are the best spiker there are (the upcoming update makes them even stronger), but in pug it hasn't proven itself really. Because most people die too much during spikes(just lack of using grenth's Aura when there 20 balled foes in front of you) SS isn't the worst Spiker. It deals good damage with just one skill,SS. The spikers are kinda equal and have their cons and pro's in my opinion. <font color="#62686C">Sjan <font color="#266592">talk  21:24, 30 December 2011 (UTC)