User talk:Shireen/Build:Me/Mo RA FC Healer

Pre-Emptive Notice
Discuss build theory all you want here guys.
 * I just ask you not make any personal attacks. This is in userspace so I do have eddit privelages to remove foul language and personal attacks (Which are the only two things I will ever eddit in my user space).
 * For those of you scratching your heads and going "This thing will never work!" its allready been voted out by the community. So you can scratch your head or load it up (I was nice enough to include my gear template) and work it till you understand it.  I make it to TA 4/5 times with this.  Try it out and see why I am such a supporter of Mes Monking. Shireen   former sysop  15:58, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Notice
Yes, Im submitting THIS build for vetting. So get your 0.0.0's up and running cuz I know its happening. A few notes before you do though:

And as a final note there are a couple of good ideas in the archived discussion of this build suggesting ideas for a Mesmer Heal Suppor + Interupts or FU hexes that I will be exploring in a later build. For now, Thanks for the theory discussion. Ill propose a Prot variant once I figure out how to make it work (Preliminary bars are not looking very good at the moment). Shireen  former sysop  13:48, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * This mesmer is much for efficient at keeping a whole RA team clean of hexes and conditions that are the primary source of death to a party in RA.
 * This Mesmer can react faster and more often to damage than a standard monk
 * This Mesmer has no Divine Favor (I know) but the speed makes up for that.
 * Healing is comparable to that of a normal monk (about a 15% difference).
 * Purge Signent is NOT a wasted skill and is better than contemplate with the skill setup.
 * Thumpers kill this build pretty quick.
 * Its consistant and effective for the areana it is designed for (Which is why we vote right?).
 * Has better survivability and better e-management

When I want fast casting I switch to my HCT staff. Railin 15:14, 20 May 2008 (EDT)


 * I think the idea would be better as a support build with shutdown and such, not as a full healer. Fast casting is nice, but not worth the loss of divine favor for the reason Railin mentioned. Dejh 15:16, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * That's the idea I said 45kb of discussion ago=\ --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]Tab  Moo  15:18, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I didn't read the full archive, but I guessed that had probably already been mentioned. I just figured I'd put forth the idea again in the most current area of discussion. Dejh 15:23, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Summarize a build. Don't type a whole essay. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px|19px]] Lann 16:36, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Whom was that directed at? Shireen  former sysop  16:51, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * The intro to the build i assume.  16:53, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * So what would be a better way to concisely summerize build? Fast Casting Mesmer Heals?  I'll get laughed at (more than I allready am) =) Shireen   former sysop  16:55, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * This build utilizes Mesmer's primary attribute Fast Casting to provide quick heals and hex removals in Random Arenas. &larr; kinda like this ~ ĐONT * TALK  16:58, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

Question
What makes this an energy efficient build? I might be missing something, but doesn't it just spam heals with less efficiency than a monk? --Tab  Moo  17:26, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

Check the chart I did on the Discussion page. Compared to other builds this thing works well. Recharge rates are still the same of normal monks so your waiting for that 5 energy recharge pip, (which is about 2 1/2 seconds). Purge signant will allow you to nab key hexes and conditions for like 2-3 energy when your going full tilt. Inspired Hex is free, Cure Hex is 5 energy, so you get two hexes and a 100 point heal for 5 energy. Sig of Rej. Is free and WoH is high healing (188) for 5 energy. Healing Breeze (I know you guys have issues with this) is 288 pre-active healing for 10 energy. So, Mesmer: Woh-X2 / Sig Rej / HB / Spot / Insp / Cure / Purge Sig = 25 (+whatever purge sig nukes) energy compared to other monk builds that run roughly 35 energy in the same time frame. You know we all heal at the rate of recharge without e-management. E-Denials dont work very well on this build as your allready running close to redline (zero) when you are going at it. Shireen  former sysop  17:33, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Efficiency is health per energy. Which is less than a monk. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]Tab  Moo  17:34, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * But this mesmer doesnt run out of energy for healing = healing for longer = more health over time. If you would mind looking at it that way.  Spotless Soul also clears out 4 (or is it 5 with 20% enchant) conditions for 5 energy.  So those re-applying blind bots have a hard time getting things to stick. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen   former sysop  17:38, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Then bring spotless soul on your monk. And a mesmer that spams heals and purge signet actually does run out of energy. [[Image:Railin-WoH.jpg‎|19px]] <font color="#033361">Railin 01:06, 21 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Well, considering it's no longer in danger of *gasp* actually being vetted (I know it never was), Might I give you a suggestion and try it. It might surprise you.  =) <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen   former sysop  12:17, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

If you want to run mesmer primary, take advantage of Fast Casting. Like this: [build prof=Me/Mo hea=12 fas=10+1+1 ins=8+1][Mantra of Recovery][Ethereal Light][Patient Spirit][Dismiss Condition@2][Holy Veil][Healing Seed][Heal Party][Auspicious Incantation][/build] ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  13:15, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

I am soo gonna give that a try. But holy viel sucks on a mesmer build, unfortunately...<font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen  former sysop  14:57, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Veil is nowhere near sucking, it's the best non-elite hex removal in the game, especially with 33% faster recharging. Stopping it maintaining can be a bit of trouble, but still better than go afk with Diversion / Shame all the time. ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  15:11, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I only know of one used monk skill that cast time is > 2 seconds and thats aegius so, what im wondering is why we need a monk secondary on a mesmer for faster casting when most used skills would hardly benefit from it at all. Just curious, but if this was already discussed i'm sorry, tl;dr tbh. ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 15:28, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Some of the monk skills are not used because of their casting time and/or recharge. The build above provides solution for both, like using FC to not have Ethereal Light interrupted, Healing Seed with faster recharge and casting etc. About the current build, well, I guess FC is for Purge Signet and hard rez. ~ <font color="#444">ĐONT <font color="#444">* <font color="#444">TALK  15:35, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Monks don't carry either for good reason tbh, the res and purge that is. The benefit from the faster casting isn't that great because the other skills are used for a reason, they are better. ﮎHædõ๘  یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 15:37, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Reactivity and speed of hex/condition removal are what makes a mesmer monk work. In the time it takes a normal monk to fire off 1 hex removal, I've removed 2. Veil is there for pre-removal to get the ones at the bottom of the stack which with a mesmer, can be achieved with Remove Hex (Yes, the piddly little one without an attribute connection) and inspired (which is free), so for 5 energy you get the two most pain in the but skills. Veil is nice when your only bringing 1 hex removal for pre-veil. Take 2 hex removals and your golden. And as I stated earlier, this build is cheap and energy efficient (the current one) so purge signet fits on the bar very well. In RA its the uber hex/condition stack from oblivion that spells "I WIN" for the opposing team. Other than a Monk with RC and Divert Hexes (both elites, or very expensive) there is no way to clean and save someone. FC does a lot more than just spammage, it protects you from hard interupters. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen  former sysop  15:52, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Tbh, I pretty regularly win vs Migraine + WoD teams or similar with a single Veil. You don't need 2 fast casting removals. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  15:54, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * *cough*, tbh if your facing max hexs your never going to get anyone clean because hexes recharge > hex removal recharge every time. It doesnt matter if you have 2 or 5, a good hex team will still out hex you. Everything else veil covers nicely. ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 15:58, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Hex teams run into e-management issues just like everyone else. Look at the bar, It nukes and entire hex stack, then can remove another 2 hexes for 5 energy. Twenty Seconds Later (If they do nothing else but recharge to re-dump that hex stack) your able to just nerf the stack again without thinking about it. THATS the beauty of the hex removal/condition removal system I built. Its more energy efficient at removing conditions that you can apply them. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen  former sysop  16:01, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You beat hexway through shutdown and good use of your hex removal skill, not by running three hex removals. That's not a beautiful system, that's a pointless, inefficient and wasteful system. But whatever floats your boat I guess. --[[Image:Ibreaktoilets_Signature.jpg|User:Ibreaktoilets|20px]]<font color="Black">Tab  <font color="Black">Moo  16:11, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes, 3 hex removal systems and two condition removal systems (though one skill serves as both). Purge fullfills the same role as contemplate, except that it doesnt pop your enchants and can be used on other people. Its a self survival skill. *Sighs* Even after all of this I don't think anyone has honestly tried it...  All you guys want to do is tell me how it doesnt work rather than going out and finding out if it does... <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen  former sysop  16:14, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
 * We never said it didn't, other than the purge sig, which is energy killing in itself. It's that whatever this does a monk can do better. I'd rather a mesmer be a mesmer and a monk be a monk tbh, it's why they were created yes? ﮎHædõ๘ یíɳ [[image:Shadowsin_sig.PNG]] 01:58, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Rodger, I must be using purge signent differently then, as I am not having energy problems with it. If purge signent is dropped, what could replace it for self survivablility? Yes, a monk 'technically' is better for stronger heals, but in my opinion this is a WHOLE lot more fun. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen  former sysop  12:10, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Patient Spirit > HB?
I've created a PvP mes to try healing out and so have been thinking about builds which get the most punch for the energy. Since you're in the healing attribute line, wouldn't Patient Spirit be superior to HB? These are the pros as I see them: 1)less energy, 2)since it is less energy, it can be used on more allies without effecting the energy bar, 3)heals for more overall health and quicker (I think) 4)much less chance of it being stripped. Nice build though...never thought about using purge signet for the situations with multiple mesmers or mes and necs on the team when even 2 hex removals and 3 condition removals (dismiss conditions counts as two) still isn't enough. <font color="Blue">Choytw Talk Debates 09:37, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

Read HB a little differently - For the next 17 seconds (with 20% enchant) prevent up to 272 damage for 10 energy with a 2 second recharge (I.E. can be up on more than 1 person at a time). While patient spirit is 102 healing for 5 energy with a 3 second delay, or 204 for 10 energy over roughly 7 seconds. HB is more efficient. <font face="arial" color="Green">Shireen  former sysop  12:25, 27 December 2008 (EST)


 * Sorry for the delay, just started playing GW occassionally again (been so long since I've logged in here, took me a dozen tries to get my pass right!) Ok, for the discussion, I see your point, and you're right.  If your ally will live long enough, HB outheals PS for the energy invested.  However, what if that same ally is under a spike (with degen) and you're being dogged by a thumper?  In that instance, solid dose heals are what you need, not heal over time.  This is my take on HB, it's good for negating degen and the occasional attack, but that's not what you commonly run into - you run into degen & attack combined.  Also, Patient Spirit only has a duration of 2 seconds (not 3) without any modifiers.  € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   14:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, under the dazed condition (or mes skills which cause you to cast slower), it is much easier to stop HB (even with fast casting included) than it is to interrupt PS.  € ╠╣ Ω¥†\╩/ ∞  [ ÞΩ┌┐Ð ]   14:21, 28 May 2009 (UTC)