Archive talk:Team - Elemental Balance/Archive 1

Usage
And the enemies die how? God box   14:56, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * /roll 100 -> /resign. that's how. Brandnew  pew pew me!  15:00, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * TROLLING! No but srsly you lack both offense and defense. God  box   15:02, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * An RC and an HB monk with a half restore Rit, all in wards, with the enemy snared by the water and earth is not good defense? The snared enemy sits in massive AOE while the DA pressures then as soon as somebody is suitable DA and Earth Ele shadowstep in with ancestors on and unleash a guaranteed kill spike... there is no lack of offense or defense here! Dark Void 15:10, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Any half a moron can ask for prots/veil. Brandnew  pew pew me!  15:05, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Why are they sitting in the AoE? God  box   15:18, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Too many snares for the enemy to deal with. Any coordinated team is going to make sure the fire and water eles are pressuring enourmously. Dark Void 15:25, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * But then they can move! No but srsly take earth shaker they pwn. God  box   15:27, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I considered ES instead of DA but I thought DA would be more effective. Between Ward Against Foes, Frozen Burst, Freezing Gust, Deep freeze AND grasping earth the enemy should always be moving at a snails pace. Dark Void 15:29, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Anybody else want to weigh in on the knockdown VS overall damage/enchant removal for this builds first slot? Dark Void 15:36, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Nevermind. There is clearly more synergy with ES, mes should be able to take care of enchants. Reworking. Dark Void 16:13, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

You can't run. Add Make Haste. God box   16:13, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * You don't think Flame Djinn + Enraging Charge runners can get the job done? Dark Void 16:25, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Make Haste is 33% speed boost, that's much better. Also you gank the runners sometimes, then you want your warrior to be free. God  box   16:26, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * True. I wonder if a support paragon would make a better choice then a support rit at this point. Dark Void 16:27, 16 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Maybe something like this instead of the rit?

[build prof=p/any motivation=12+1+1 leadership=9+1 command=10+1][Song of Restoration][Aria of Restoration][Mending Refrain][Finale of Restoration][Bladeturn Refrain]["Make Haste"][signet of synergy][resurrection signet][/build]

^ that sucks. Smurf Ohai 14:37, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

Too much defense
Screw the WaH, take another SH, make the OoS rit a glaive. Then you can kill stuff.--Goldenstar 17:06, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Wouldn't it make more sense to swap WaH with Shatterstone to keep the snares if you think there is too much defense? Dark Void 17:33, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Water snares blow, foes + grasping is more than enough snare. Plus dual SH has crazy mad synergy with erf shakuur--Goldenstar 17:34, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * OoS smite rits are gud, rest of OoS bars are pretty bad. Glaive is nice as well. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 17:36, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I like the idea of Glaive. Dark Void 17:37, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Ritualist now has Glaive as well as Spirit Rift to join in on the spike. Water Elemental is using Shatterstone instead of WaH now, although I'm not sure that's needed, going to do some testing tonight. I definately do not think grasping should be the only snair, the ele snairs do decent damage and an AOE snare, makes it a lot harder to keep removal up on the enemy runner. Dark Void 02:17, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Ancestor's Rage is sufficient for the spike, and so is grasping and WoF as snaring. God  box   10:15, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Rit is kinda hurting on energy. Also, splinter weapon is always an option (although with only a Hammer war, it's less useful). &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:37, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

spike or pressure?
as a spike it's too weak, it's easy to prevent and doesn't deal enough damage. As pressure it's too spiky. Please decide what you want it to be and focus on that. God box   10:18, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
 * The fire ele is pressure, the rest is spike. Looking at the numbers Warrior KD's hits his chain for minimum 100 damage if target is properly rended Snare Shatterstones for 190 damage over 3 seconds Shockwave hits for 171, aftershock for minimum 95, if KD 159 Rit Ancestors war for 103, rifts for 128 over 3 seconds and can use glaive for 94 NOT including the fire ele at all in the spike, assuming he's pressure only, that's 700 damage over 3 seconds on a spike NOT including glaive. Dark Void
 * Even I could infuse a spike that lasts 3 seconds.. Brandnew  pew pew me!  02:51, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Not if ES has you on your butt for 2 of them. How long do you think the average spike takes? R-spike and rainbow spike for example has an activation of 2-3 seconds. Rit spike relies on a 2 second KD to form rifts. If you took out shatterstone and used glaive during a spike it would be instant. Anyways, my hope for the build was a balance between pressure and spike. Keep in mind when shockwave goes off it will damage everybody in the area, ditto for spirit rift, helping the fire ele pressure. Dark Void 10:23, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * As a spike it's too slow and too weak. You may have 6 seconds casting time skills if you want to, it's how fast, after the first damage hits, your target dies, that counts. If you're stupid enough to stand adjacent to the other monk you could as well lol at them since the monks must be by far worse than me. Also there is a reason why ritspike is archived... And if you want to do something then do it good; a combination where both are weak is bad. God  box   10:28, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * at this point the SH is the main pressure still. i still don't see the spike as being weak... lets also keep in mind the build has a mesmer for a reason, shame diversion and inturrupts make sure the spike goes off without an infuse Dark Void 10:44, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Holy Veil. And Infuse Health is 1/4 casting time, no one has 0,05 reaction speed. Also pre-protting. God  box   10:49, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * This has actually plenty of spike power, might even be overkill. Rodgorts invoc is such big damage. Nevertheless; I'd go for a water snarer instead of Shockwave as otherwise your SH's are useless on certain maps.  —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  13:25, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

2 res sigs + 1 hard res is fail -- Infested Hydralisk  ( Talk * Contributions ) 18:20, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Not dying > having 2 sig. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  13:25, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Build Changes
After heavy build testing there are some heavy build changes here. Took halls twice last night. Still leaving it for discussion at this point. The recent skill changes only add to the builds effectiveness IMO (Shockwave and Ward nerfs are minor wheras a lot of commonly run builds took major hits) Dark Void 19:12, 22 May 2008 (EDT)


 * Put back to vetting because it's going unnoticed. Please discuss thoughts before voting. Dark Void 16:15, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Ward against melee nerf is major. You should drop it. I'd suggest a water ele tbh, but a shockwave would be fine too. —ǘŋ  Ɛxɩsƫ  13:26, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I inititally started with a water ele, been running it with one again, so it's back in the build instead of the shockwave ele. Mainly because it seems like every HoH map is relic running lately. Ward Against Melee nerf still seems fairly minor, anybody else have thoughts if it is still viable? Dark Void 18:54, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * u dont rly need earth snares on a water ele -- Infested Hydralisk [[image:InfestedHydralisk_sig2.1.jpg|19px]] ( Talk * Contributions ) 19:00, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd be willing to drop grasping, but ward is pretty critical on a lot of maps. Dark Void 19:30, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Asked our snarer what he's been running, swapped grasping with Armor of Mist, makes staying on top of snaring a lot easier/faster Dark Void 19:34, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Get rid of
The para and the water ele. Take a fast cast taint and an OoS rit. Then put some earth snares on your current resto ele, make haste on the E/P, rend on the tainter, pact on the rit, and flesh on the pd. Then you've got a badass team--Goldenstar 14:20, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Interesing take, anybody else agree with him? Dark Void 19:10, 26 May 2008 (EDT)
 * Oddly enough I used to have a an OoS and a fast cast taint in this build but they were removed. Seems like everybody is running tainted these days and it all just cancels each other out, although wells are always nice. Feel free to post me some sample builds, my guild is running this build almost nightly with variations. Last night we realized how awesome unsteady ground can by versus melee heavy teams, although i'm not sure i would run it all the time xD Dark Void 19:22, 26 May 2008 (EDT)