User talk:Krschkr/A-R Barrage

Trial
Submitted into trial. We don't yet need to rate this, as we may simply dismiss the build without having to test it thoroughly: Barrage assassin is an old idea, often discussed and never accepted as a good build because it's simply not very strong and assassins always had and still have at least one better alternative. This page's predecessor is Archive:A/R Critical Barrage Assassin. However, maybe the new critical strikes shortbow gives this build enough of a damage boost to be considered good enough for the build namespace. I personally doubt it. However, there's now a writeup of it and we can use that as a basis for discussion. --Krschkr (talk) 20:49, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Critical hit with a normal customized 15^50 bow against 60 armour is 55 at 12 marksmanship. With the new shortbow it's 63 with 16 critical strikes. That's a 14.5% increase in armour respective base damage. In practice the small boost's impact will be fairly low, especially due to higher armour ratings causing the damage values to get closer to each other. With ebon battle standard of honour and critical agility the area (range: adjacent) DPS against stationary 60 armour targets will be around 47 without external support (which, due to the lack of strength of honour for ranged attacks, won't be that decisive). With ebon battle standard of honour and critical agility the single target DPS against stationary 60 armour targets will be around 52 without external support. In actual PvE the conditions will be worse: You'll have to move around to get in range of foes, may get out of your standard, heroes are already killing while you're stuck preparing skills with a casting time, foes have higher armour ratings. Even with barrage + battle standard 66% of your up to 95 damage per hit (63) are armour respective and will be reduced against most foes.


 * Comparing this with the normal (or new-elite) dagger build is... disappointing. It has more single target damage, arguably more area damage, is easier to support and features SY. I personally don't think that this page would survive vetting. Any opinions? --Krschkr (talk) 22:16, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Since you no longer need marksmanship, you could do things like put 12 into wilderness survival and take Ignite Arrows + Incendiary Arrows. There's some EBSoH synergy there at least. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 01:43, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * But then you'd mimic the worse of the two area damage ranger bow builds... --Krschkr (talk) 11:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I've done some testing with all the various critical assassin builds (https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/User:ZStepmother/A/any), and I must say that Bow (& spear) are worse than the other variants. I've also done a run or 2 with Ignite Arrows, but wasn't really a fan of that one. It's more fun to run than dagger spam, but scythe, axe and hammer are better alternatives. With the current categories, I don't think Crit Bow has a place here ZStepmother (talk) 12:17, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Guess I'll make a shadow theft axe build then and try my luck with that one. Unless there are objections I'm going to remove the barrage assassin from the build namespace within the next days. --Krschkr (talk) 12:29, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If I may say a word, I believe barrage is a mistake, Incendiary Arrows combined with Disrupting Accuracy seems better as it offers support potential. It doesn't require any investment aside from critical strikes, which frees points for beast mastery for instance (Never Rampage Alone). Maybe not great, but probably working. Better with boosts (especially Together as One from a fellow ranger friend).--Ruineternelle (talk) 09:42, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Shadow Theft
[build prof=Assassin/Ranger Critical=12+1+3 Mark=12][Shadow Theft@20][Triple Shot@10][Keen Arrow@18][Sloth Hunter's Shot@18][Disrupting Accuracy][Way of the Master@20][Critical Eye@20][Critical Agility@10][/build] Sloth Hunter deals extra damage if it interrupts, so Disrupting Accuracy is a dps increase. Triple Shot will probably always crit at least once and thus interrupt. Will play my sin through Factions so I can cap the elite and test this, but I like it on paper. -- DANDY ^_^ -- 00:53, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Could also drop Disrupting Accuracy to fit in Volley for stronger Splinter Weapon synergy and better AoE. Amorality (talk) 10:46, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You trade your ranged positioning, the ability to spam area attacks and your party support with the battle standard and technobabbly for +8 single target DPS against 60 armour targets and single target random rupts. Imo your build should look like this instead to be more effective at what it's doing:


 * Adds back area damage, better single target damage, better shutdown than random rupts, better options to receive support from party members. And it still has free skill slots for more utility, including one PvE-only skill. --Krschkr (talk) 11:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I guess thats why the shadow theft bow is in my sandbox and not a real build attempt XD Amorality (talk) 11:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * @Kschkr I had a discussion with someone on gwwiki and they mentioned unsuspecting strike being better than jagged on this build.~18 critical strikes means 4 energy per crit so less energy troubles--Ruineternelle (talk) 11:58, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I play shadow theft with bestial fury and wouldn't have the energy for unsuspecting strike. But I don't doubt that it's the preferable choice with drunken master or critical agility. That damage burst at 20 critical strikes ought to be great. --Krschkr (talk) 14:38, 12 May 2020 (UTC)