User talk:Toraen/Archive 7

Hello. --Bumble 08:38, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess it was just overloaded servers then. Bluh. --  Toraen   talk  08:49, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey I tested those files, your problem child appears to be skillname_db. Just letting you know. -- Bumble talk 21:46, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm epic
Aren't you all glad you made me admin? -- Toraen TheJanitor 23:51, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * That might've been a problem :P-- Relyk  talk  00:45, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * it was. For around 5 seconds.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  01:03, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Bus number. We need a bigger one. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 01:28, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

You're Epic
I'm so glad we made you admin. Anvil God 23:54, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Best fucking janitor, ever. -- Jai . -  23:57, April 30 2011 (UTC)

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Rt/N_Explosive_Growth_Minion_Bomber
People keep taking away archive from this build. It's absolutely terribad in the current state of the game and at best only takes away corpses or the spot of a significantly better build. The current ratings on the build is 2.5 and it should have been archieved long ago or simply trashed. That it's used \ run by pugs isn't much of a redeeming point as it's simply a way of fitting 5 ritualists in the same team and nothing more. YuriZahard 09:43, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * PvXwiki:Admin noticeboard... (you've been told to use it first before). Also it already got sent to archives before I saw this since it got 5 trash votes. Yay I guess. -- Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png|link=User:Toraen]] 17:00, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

teal color?-- Relyk 19:35, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * think he's used that sig before.  ~ PheNaxKian talk  19:38, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * With a green color the first time. Sorta just wanted a simpler sig, and the janitor joke has been going for quite a while anyway. --  Toraen   talk  19:53, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna miss the broom. -- Jai . -  20:04, May 6 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if it showed or not, but I added a delete tag to the page I accidentally created with an edit summary of "Fuck me", and you deleted it saying "already did." XD -- Jai . -  05:36, May 8 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I hadn't even seen that. Makes it even funnier since now my delete summary has two meanings! --  Toraen   talk  05:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Category link
Why is it that the link to Category needs a colon in front of it? Referring to your edit on the 7HPS talk page. talk 10:23, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Otherwise it doesn't actually display as a link, but instead adds the page it's on to that category. --  Toraen   talk  10:24, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. Dzjudz sig.pngtalk 10:25, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * it's the same for images too :)-- Relyk 23:22, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Archive some builds
Hi I was wondering if some Hero builds could be archived, namely the, and. They are all either terribly outdated or very bad in general, their ratings don't correspond to the votes and they make my eyes hurt every time I visit the hero section. Vorpal 15:40, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Place at the top of each page. I'll take a look at them myself later when I'm not about to go to class. I don't know if anyone else will really notice at all, but it's worth putting up the notification at least. --  Toraen   talk  15:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The second two just need to be trashed, and the Air hero... Meh, doesn't really matter what happens to it, IMO. -- Jai . -  16:45, May 16 2011 (UTC)
 * i know at least jeydra likes using invoke lightning heroes for spiking (which doesn't sound too bad) and bsurge is niche use. the discord smite support was theorycrafted a long time ago and should've been deleted long ago. But discussion on the actually pages is good :P-- Relyk 20:04, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

imbasin archive
don't miss a beat do you :P I noticed but cbf to fix-- Relyk 19:43, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

skill descriptions and spiritual pain
Actually, they are displayed as 0..12..16 if no spec is provided, but that was not the point of the notice. The point was that Spiritual Pain in the database is currently 63...75, it should be 15...75. talk 20:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok. Why does everyone have different conventions for it? So fucking confusing. --  Toraen   talk  21:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * because some people have to be more specific. We can be rather general and just give a 0...15 (or whatever the hell it is we give it), because the PHP script we run is capable of working out the rest. Wiki's can't (or if they can it's too much of a hassle).  ~ PheNaxKian talk  21:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The wikis also just go by 0 and 15 values in their formula. What is weird is that each site reflects values differently. Wiki bolds 0, 12 and 15, guildwiki bolds 0 and 12, and apparently pvx bolds 0, 12 and 16. Dzjudz sig.png talk 21:51, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I really should investigate more before saying random crap, shouldn't I? Just personal (er, wiki) preference then. No major reason. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * guildwiki originally did/does 0/12, I remember that caused confusion sometimes as to why since anet uses 0/12/15. When it was split, pvxwiki had 0/12/16 because we assumed headgear in listing attributes (which is much more useful than doing 15). Then guildwarswiki does 0/12/15 since that's how anet lists it. Of course, that's all an educated guess, I don't remember anything from early on.-- Relyk 23:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes guildwiki has always done 0...12 I think, they note it in their Game updates page as well: "In their update notes, ANet uses a 0...12...15 system to display the impact of attributes on skills. GuildWiki uses a 0...12 range (which is also used for tooltips). (P.S. before 2010, update notes from ANet would just use 0...15, not the current 0...12...15)" I find that 15 usually has a nice round breakpoint (because for some arbitrary reason Anet decided to update on 0...15 specs), but 16 is probably more informative. Dzjudz sig.png <font color="#47d1de">talk 23:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Deletion
Is there a point to deleting user pages or can you just blank the page?  Anvil God  zzz... 22:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * depends if you want people to be able to look through the history. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:51, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Redirects
Is there a faster way to adding redirects other than manually adding them?  Anvil God  zzz... 17:18, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * what do you mean? <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  17:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Like how to add redirects without making a new page and manually add them yourselves? [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 17:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Not as far as I know. What do you need to add redirects for? --  Toraen   talk  19:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Acronyyyyms. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 19:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, common name not common mispelling. --  Toraen   talk  19:52, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

RfA
Would it even be considerable for me? I think we needs some more active admins... -- Jai . -  05:24, June 21 2011 (UTC)
 * You could always go for it. I think you rise to troll baiting a bit too easily though. Unfortunately, we really do need more admins since Phen and I are the only ones still doing stuff on a regular basis. He's about to take a break, while I'm getting tied up with my new job. I honestly can't think of anyone who'd be really suited though, out of who's left. --  Toraen   talk  05:56, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't want to steal Jai's attention, but I am essentially wondering the same thing here. Finals are finally done so I can actually contribute more to PvX than I have been in the past month or so. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 16:43, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

roj
where's the roj monk revision page you had going? I think it's decent enough to merge all the versions together-- Relyk 02:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
 * . Somehow I forgot to link it in my sandbox. --  Toraen   talk  02:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Active Users List
Going to take awhile to catch up to you.  Anvil God  zzz... 02:52, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Testing Builds
Hey Toraen, I've got a question about builds having the tag tested. Some of these builds are in Testing so long, they will eventually stay there for an unlimited time. No votes, no changes, no payed attention to them. Can we, except from showing them on the front page, get them out of testing asap? <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer     09:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * vote on them then? <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  11:56, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If only I vote, it won't work. Why won't you vote then? I don't see you doing it <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 14:02, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Because whenever I vote I get bitched at for days about how I'm bad. So I do us all a favour and don't vote =). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  14:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There's not much reason to worry about a build sitting in testing. If it doesn't get voted on an update will eventually affect it and get it kicked back to trial. If it doesn't ever happen, it doesn't really affect the vetted categories (which are what people look at) anyway. Also, one can only make reasonable votes about builds that they are capable of judging, which is why Phen and I don't often vote on SC builds (which are most of what's been sitting in testing). When I do, I'm usually copying someone else's vote to move it along. --  Toraen   talk  16:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I tend to copy some too. And about the sitting in testing, it's kinda annoying. Move along or disappear. <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 19:24, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's primarily what the featured build page is for, to get builds attention for vetting ;) We used to have 10 times as many builds in testing and trial as we do now-- Relyk 23:37, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * To be fair, a lot of builds are "vetted" even though they don't have any votes (because when pages were copied over to curse from wikia we couldn't bring the votes over). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Relyk, I already said it doesn't always help. Phen, I know, and some builds may need an update or an archive. <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 08:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Screaming and yelling at people because you've been staring at builds too much always works as well-- Relyk 08:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hell yeah XD <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 09:56, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

pro pve players
we nedz moor...-- Relyk 06:49, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * We need more pro players, period. Too bad that any who are left want nothing to do with this site. --  Toraen   talk  07:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * look no furthor? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 07:41, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * for now it'll be "relyk/toraen" wiki and those other people kyler gets mad at-- Relyk 11:35, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wasn't aware Toraen actually played. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 12:44, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I actually do, but it's been pretty infrequent lately because my home internet connection is kinda shit for online gaming. I also sorta burned out again. --  Toraen   talk  17:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * i'm pretty sure people who makes builds that are performed optimally by smashing your face against the keyboard multiple times aren't really suitable to be called pro players. just a thought. Athrun Feya 13:21, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ^all gw is that -- [[image:Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg|19px|link=User:Chieftain Alex]] <font face="Calibri" color="Black" size="2.5">Chieftain <font face="Calibri" color=CC6633 size="2.5"> Alex  17:24, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * People still play Guild Wars? [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 19:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * GW is dead, makes me wonder that the hell I'm even doing here. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Ether Renewal.jpg|19px]] 19:03, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, complaining? <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 20:39, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

play global agenda and/or eve. much better games, both of them. Danny 03:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * on second thought, fuck eve. play GA. Danny 03:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Need to do this, thanks for the reminder. I should have some time after work today to get that properly set up. --  Toraen   talk  11:46, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

New User restrictions
The revoked privileges seem to be Uploading Files and Creating Pages (that aren't their talk page). I'm going to talk to Curse later about the restrictions and see what we can modify. In particular, it would be good if we could allow new users to create their own user page. I'll also confirm that getting autoconfirmed lifts the restrictions, and that there aren't additional conditions. If anyone else knows/figures out anything about the restrictions, post it here so I can bring it up. --  Toraen   talk  11:45, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * According to Bumble, a user's email needs to be confirmed before the two restrictions are lifted. This is separate from our regular permissions and is pretty much in effect on all Curse wikis due to spambots. If we need to, we can have these restrictions lifted for our wiki, but I wanted to give an update first. --  Toraen   talk  00:16, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am a new user and confirmed my email already. However, can't create pages. Got to wait for the 4 days? :\ Thanks - Tiagos1 12:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm going to get the restriction on creating pages lifted as soon as we can, but until the abuse filter's properly set up it pretty much has to stay (the two filters we have so far are getting a lot of hits even with the restriction in effect). --  Toraen   talk  16:11, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

PvXwiki:Dungeon Overview
project instead of guide?-- Relyk 12:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't get the question. But that's a guide. A project would be maintaining said page. (which would require a project page =D!) <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  19:40, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Projects are basically coordination towards maintaining a part of the wiki, which is why I changed the tag on the BP page: it exists to ensure anyone can help keep the packs up-to-date. If the Dungeon Overview focused on getting users to submit and maintain builds for our Dungeon category then it could be tagged as a project page. I think it does basically that, but let me look at it now. --  Toraen   talk  22:00, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it would have to be renamed and moved to PvXwiki: at the very least, but it could be tagged. Of course, tagging it as a project doesn't really affect anything. It's definitely another page I need to link from the main page though. --  Toraen   talk  22:04, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's what dungeon overview was created for, so the community can keep track and maintain a list of of all the builds used to clear dungeons for people to refer to. Project seems a better term than guide to encourage people to contribute to filling it out.-- Relyk 23:57, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Making it a prjoct just means creating a page in the PvXwiki namespace and writting details about the project (see PvXwiki:Projects, it gives an example for making a new project). The guide page doesn't need to be touched in this sense. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  00:24, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It is technically a to-do list but I guess it's fine left as a guide-- Relyk 04:09, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * actually truthfully it looks like the introduction page for dungeons. It has a list of all the dungeons, the rep it gives, and links to the various builds that can be used for each one, as well as an overview of each type of build. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  11:39, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I still think of it as an unfinished project lau started to encourage getting 600/smite, perma, and sc builds vetted for all the dungeons as we were sorely lacking them :/ I'm probably confusing "project" as synonymous with Pvx Project when it's not. Would a project page be for maintaining all the current 600/smite, perma, and speed clears and keep them up-to-date?-- Relyk 07:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It would apply to getting new builds submitted that are needed as well (projects are for guiding improvement, and submitting builds improves dungeon coverage). I'm fine with the Dungeon Overview getting a project tag + rename, since it essentially is one. It just needs to let users who read it know what they can do to help (ensure all dungeon builds are tagged and listed in the table, submit new builds, maintain current builds through updates). Maybe move the page to PvXwiki:Dungeon Build Coverage if we want to make it a project? I don't see the point of having separate project and guide pages for this, one or the other will suffice. --  Toraen   talk  07:47, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 07:47, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The project is implicit enough since users have added and changed builds to it, I don't think a project page is necessary. Someone can add a line or two to the introduction to make it clear the guide is something maintained by the community and not finished. No one has made changes in 7 months until the anon's edit and it's in need of some updating.-- Relyk 08:07, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, I am reading this all the time, and all I have to say is that I think a project is a better category. The other thing I am implying is the builds. If you haven't noticed, there are builds for almost every dungeon out here. If you ask us to inflict a state, in which anet gets alerted too many solo sin builds are still working, I'd say leave them a bit hidden. Otherwise I would be glad to put them here. Talking about 600/smite, if you want me to find out if the builds still work, I'll be honoured to, I finished up 3 of them already. <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 08:43, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

I want full shutdown
For any IP that is on here. No more IP edits! <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer     21:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * that would be a great way to get good builds, and would undoubtedly help this dying site get more users. not. Halfies 21:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it would be a great way to stop vandalism and troll builds created or done by IP users. <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 21:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * so is revert Halfies 21:34, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You want a revert police? <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 21:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * all im saying is that your idea will only make less people use an already dying site Halfies 22:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I apologise but I'm breaking Godwin's law. Ohai Hitler!. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That would be nice. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 23:42, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

The Racway Archives
It's now completely messed up. Maybe better to reroll my changes? Links dont work now and the archives are upside down :/ Falrach 15:03, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

before I get off
Curse Noticeboard currently shows ''Missing skill. Id=91247; Name=Pain (PvP)''. Changes to Shield Guardian and 7/21 skill update need to be made.-- Relyk 09:03, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * we're aware. Curse was doing some stuff on the dev server and acidently pushed some changes live. They're fixing it. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  10:57, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes but it'd require a lot of extra effort (well, it'd take more effort than it's worth anyway) so it parsed the dates and title. So generally it's not worth it with how little we use it considering it takes 2 seconds to update the link. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  16:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright then. --  Toraen   talk  16:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Just wanted to say thanks for creating my User/Talk pages. Hope they get the problem fixed soonGWJay 01:26, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Stuff
Can you (if you don't have one already) supply me with a list of stuff that needs fixing/updating please? (and any files that go with said tasks). Might be easier to do when you're on MSN (give me a poke on MSN either way). <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  16:45, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll be able to gather everything up after work today (~7 hours from now). I'd also like to get the current db files from Curse so I can find out what's wrong with our updated copies. If you could ask for those while I'm gone, that'd be great, but not mandatory. --  Toraen   talk  16:55, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * that's why I'm asking, I've got them (sort of. I'll explain on MSN later/tommorow if I go to sleep before you're back) =) <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  17:05, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

2 Votes of 1.8
"Significantly faster done by other builds". I wonder which builds they mean, but this build is I think the only one who can farm all those bosses. I don't think they then deserve the 1 for effectiveness. Build:A/E Perma Boss Farmer <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer     14:08, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You should ask the voters to explain their votes/tell you which builds on the site are faster, not go straight to an admin. Also, if there's an assassin build that farms them faster there's no reason to run a slower one just because it can. Swapping out your build in guild wars is easy. --  Toraen   talk  15:22, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That's the main reason, there is none <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 15:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Apparently those voters don't think so, contact them to work it out first. You didn't even try to. --  Toraen   talk  15:25, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I just wondered if I made a mistake in that, but I checked it. And so, I will contact them. <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 15:26, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * bluetapeboy copied ressmonkey's vote, you won't have any luck asking him to justify his vote-- Relyk 17:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

question
At what point can I change a build from "stub" to testing or whatever?--E.Snow 04:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Whenever you've completed the build. I just put stub at the top when I created it because I didn't put anything on the page. If it doesn't get worked on I need it there to let me know when I have to delete it. --  Toraen   talk  04:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Vote Removal Please...
On Because the three 0-0-0 votes were all obviously spammed. Also, two of them were made from dummy accounts with nothing on them :P. Also, we know slayer is a painful troll. :P Innoruuk 05:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sam and Kamil are rather veteran users. Check the users' contributions before throwing accusations...-- Relyk 10:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Did you read the procedure on vote removals? It's contact the user (so they can debate on the build talk if necessary) &rarr; Admin Noticeboard (if the previous step failed and it's an obviously wrong vote) &rarr; Contact admin directly (if no response from the AN - shouldn't happen as I check every day). --  Toraen   talk  13:59, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Relyk, if you could run an IP tracer program (and be able to read vote comments and recognize a circle jerk when it happens) you'd realize they're all the same person. Hence Sam's lack of a page or builds, hence the same 1st votes in rapid succession, hence c/p'ed reason not based on criteria given. All 3 IPs are in the same community within a 1 mile radius of each other. I don't have the super software which could prove it's all in the same house...but believe me they're the same troll. Innoruuk 16:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * AN IP TRACER ?!?! <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 16:52, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Innoruuk stop complaining, you ***hole. I copied the vote, I even replied on your talk to make it clear. I am in no mile-radius of any person invlolved in PvXWiki. I know my town and who plays guild wars or not. I know who has an account on PvX and who not. Don't say you got a f***ing IP-tracer, you wouldn't even know where to find yours! <font color="3333CC"><font color="3300CC">Le Shadow Form <font color="3366CC">Slayer    [[Image:Marker.jpg|17px]] 17:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

@Slayer: Enjoy your holiday. @Inno: They're not the same account. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  18:39, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Innoruuk, stop making accusations without evidence. Copy+pasted votes are a common thing, because rarely are there enough users to push something through vetting nowadays, and when such a vote is made they are saying that their opinion of the build is the same and don't want to make more effort to say the same thing a different way. All of those accounts are different, I have seen contributions from all of them (also, some users choose not to have a user page or wave around epeen over what builds 'they' created). We also have check user (an IP check tool) and can verify that they're not the same person. Try looking at Special:Contributions and type in the names. You'll see all of their past contributions to the wiki that haven't been deleted. --  Toraen   talk  00:56, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


 * And here to explain the technical aspects of what just happened to the 14-year-olds in the room is Danny:
 * Relyk couldn't run an IP tracer over PvXwiki because, quite literally, it'd be impossible. You'd have to access PvX's database (at which point you could just remove the votes yourself) or access the server's IP logs (at which point you could do a hell of a lot more than just access the database and remove the votes). Of course, he could also run an IP trace with admin rights, but he'd have to have a 0-day to escalate his privileges or have been mysteriously promoted to an Admin position. You couldn't even claim to be monitoring response packets from the server due to the way the physical part of the internet works (that is, largely, how routers work) unless you magically had access to the majority of service routers that ISPs use to more or less create the internet. (See, with wired connections, packets don't just get fired off through every wire. Routers are used to decide how to handle which packets end up traveling down which wires.) And all of this is foregoing the strong possibility that PvX doesn't have a unique IP address but rather resides on a shared server.
 * All that said, if Innoruuk's claim is to be believed, he'd have to actually live in the same house and/or be the same person as Slayer to be able to effectively and within reasonable limits be able to run any sort of IP trace. Therefore, I propose that account be banned for being an obvious sock-puppet of Slayer.

tl;dr lolhackers. Danny 06:38, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * oh networks. You so crazy. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  16:12, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I stick by my final point. Ban the obvious sock. He's practically admitted he's one. Danny 17:34, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

skills
Hey Toraen. I've removed all the files that were uploaded and replaced them with the live versions (given they were somewhat out of sync). So if you up[load the required changes I'll get them synced up (i've been a bit busy recently so i've not had too much time to fiddle with skills. Any time on the extension has been looking at the pvp skill issue...which still eludes me). Also if there's a file not there that you think should be, let me know and I'll upload it. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  19:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ugh, finally got the skill fixes uploaded to the box. I've had very spotty internet access all week. I'll have to take a look at the PvP issue myself to see if I can spot anything, but don't hold your breath. --  Toraen   talk  16:32, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

common PvE terms
I want to (compelled to) start a glossary of terms for PvE such as spirit wall, balling, pulling, etc. This mostly arises from the fact setting up spirit walls isn't covered in usage for builds using spiritway or farmers and pulling/balling mentioned in melee builds. GWW doesn't have a decent article for spiritwall, minion wall, emo, and other stuff that would be useful to include in articles. Think it's worthwhile, or more suitable to just link to GWW?-- Relyk 03:50, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If you feel like putting in the effort go for it. I'd recomend making it/them guides, and link to vetted builds if builds are required. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  12:19, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

E/A AP Ele
Hi T; visited userpages beforehand but to no avail. Some stupidly low votes and poor reasons (or troll reasons) have been given and prevent it from moving to it's proper category. Could you review this when you get a moment? Cheers. Minion  09:55, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with the votes, trying to boost the build to great is dumb excluded.-- Relyk 12:11, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing wrong with your vote. I still don't understand why AegisDok's vote stands, though. I don't see how "want damage=roll melee" is a means to put down a caster damage bar, is all. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 02:02, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * because you'd get more damage from taking a melee character? (I'm not saying that's necessarily true in this case, but that's the general idea) <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  16:26, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't we judge builds on the profession, not on all professions alltogether? <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 16:31, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a degree of wiggle room. At the end of the day there's no point taking a warrior healer etc., is there? <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  16:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, we don't count on having such build. We judge per profession, compare builds, and make a rating. I think that was one of my main points AGAINST the caster daggers, about which I will not continue, since it was one of the most popular build, in terms of edits, in a small amount of time. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 16:44, 7 September 2011 (UTC)


 * PvE builds are based on profession, PvP builds we don't care about professions (you can reroll easily). However, you can run melee as a caster (the dagger spammer, or manly spiking). If you make a caster character though, you should be expecting to play more support roles. I can't recommend running dagger spam on your caster for extended periods of time because presumably you would have made an assassin if that was all you were going to run. I recognize that caster daggers works, but it's probably a dumb thing to do if you clearly don't like your current class at all. --  Toraen   talk  17:02, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You probably have 8+ character-slots. It is bad if you only have 1 char/2 chars. <FONT COLOR="#000000">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000033">h</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000066">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00009a">d</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000cd">o</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff">w</FONT> 18:33, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars has been around how long now? There's really no reason to run anything other than the optimal because, realistically, if you're PvEing all you're doing these days is grinding out titles. And you can do that on any character. Danny 20:27, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * given a lot of titles are character based, and require you to be endgame, it's a pain to re-roll a PvE character with those intentions in mind remember. <font color="#4169E1"> ~ PheNaxKian <font color="#8A2BE2">talk  22:07, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * By your logic, danny, rangers should be deleted. :/ -- Jai . -  23:13, September 7 2011 (UTC)
 * Danny; Personal preference has a lot to do with profession and play style also. Not everyone are so hardcore. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 23:42, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It was a general statement about the votes after I scrolled through ratings. One vote using the premise eles generally have shitty damage isn't wrong, applying such an argument to this build is incorrect however. It doesn't hurt the rating when 15 other people give it 5-5/5-4 rating.
 * Also, having an AP caller build available for Elementalist is much more useful for people using the wiki than telling them to shut up and use Necromancer since necros are more effective with it. So fuck being optimal.-- Relyk 00:02, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If it's all about making it more universal, just make an any/a build with the core skills required than some suggestions for each profession...-- Ultimak719 LIKE A BOSS!  01:10, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The popular term around PvX, "Optionals Nightmare" springs to mind. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 01:14, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You can see how well that went with caster daggers lol. the any/A AP spiker was put forward and trashed 1-2 times already. consensus prefers a build-by-build basis on vetting (except lolspiritspam)-- Relyk 01:28, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That build is still terrible. [[Image:AsuraSignature.jpg|15px]] Anvil God  zzz... 02:00, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Then give a reason why it's terrible for an elementalist to use either build (earth/air). Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 03:13, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw an AP warrior a couple of days ago. <font color="Black">Vorpal [[Image:Vorpal_Signature_1.jpg|19px]] 09:47, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably beats any defy pain wammo ele ursan bar he could have potentially been running... Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 14:29, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Waiting patiently for Danny's rating to be removed (it's as ludicrous as before but with a silly bribe and heart). Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:33, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should re-evaluate our stance on rerolling in PvE. Less PvE drama would be awesome and we wouldn't ever have to consider melee casters again. --  Toraen   talk  21:45, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You know I'll just come up with another reason to, if nothing else, keep it out of great, right? That's just the most blatantly obvious one, and one that I've stood by for a long time around here. Judging by Toraen's comment above mine, I'm not the only one. Danny 22:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't actually want to go to such extremes that no damaging ele builds exist though. --  Toraen   talk  22:25, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's my stance on the whole trend of caster melees/melee casters. Unless there is actual effectiveness in a build relative to the other professions builds, only then should we actually rate on it as per PvX:Real Vetting.* In Hindsight, it's best that Toraen deleted that page. I believe, that now, my vote was wrong and shouldn't have vetted it as I did. While the Jagged Fox combo is overpowered, they aren't effective as sins. The build itself, was also a complete theorycraft. It belonged in a sandbox, not as an actual build. A profession has specific roles and although this is PvE we're discussing, we should still be creating a standard for professions nonetheless.


 * Rerolling can be a tedious task. That is a complete given. But, although it may be so, that doesn't mean that people should be lazy and just slap a warrior build on an assassin, or a mesmer build on an elementalist. You're unable to stem into higher than 12 for that line, and running a bar like it would only denote effectiveness for many reasons. We should assume, that if one were to reroll, they would be doing it more than playing a single build. The only exception to this rule would be for SCs though, where the investment of rerolling can come quite easily. We should vett builds that are more geared for their professions (Easiest example, Dagger Spam, A/any) regardless of how much work it is to reroll. Unless it's a PvE team orientated build like DoA Frostway, odds are they are not going to reroll for a SPECIFIC build on PvX. Thinking so would be trivial. There are so many generic builds are on here that is seems obvious that PvX's philosophy would fall under that. If someone was going to make a character geared for Guild Wars PvE as a whole, then we should assume they will invest the time needed to make that character, rather rolling a caster/melee friendly bar on a melee/caster profession.


 * * - As it is, the new players/shitters on this site can't really follow the procedure. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:28, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Last I checked, re-rolling in PvE took about as long as vanquishing 2 or 3 zones if you were quick about it. I'm not convinced that counts as "tedious" any more than the entire game does. Danny 22:41, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You're forgetting about titles. You're under-exaggerating anyway. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 22:44, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Did hero-flagging books and general player runs suddenly stop existing? Danny 22:47, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, neither do I, certainly. But I'm assuming there's a reason that the build hasn't been WELL'd against a similar build. Not to mention, last I checked you could just Ether healer and faceroll PvE because your heroes could simply steroid crawl everything in aggro range. Danny 22:38, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * By tedious, I meant in regards of actually getting the character through all three campaigns, or at the very least, needed armor and able to have access to the content they desire. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:45, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless "content you desire" is DoA, I'm still not convinced it's going to take long to get anywhere. You can run any damn place you feel like, especially with 7 heros protecting your ass and yelling "FALL BACK" every 10 seconds. Danny 22:47, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Essentially. FoW/UW are easy mode to reach. Perhaps besides DoA one may want to do run the Deep. People make money off that. But yeah, that's basically it. It is GW PvE we're talking about. <font color="brown" size="2px">Vincent Evan <font color="brown" size="2px">[Air Henchman]  [[Image:vincels.jpg|19px]] 22:49, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I made it to the Deep in about 6 hours before. I'd have to ask Maf if he remembers how long it took me. Danny 22:51, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I could run Starburst Axe on my ele and call the build optimal using my 7 hero team and no one would know better ^^-- Relyk 07:32, 11 September 2011 (UTC)