Archive talk:Team - UW Physway/Archive 3

Ok, less shittery please
Try to confine conversation to the build. Thanks. Karate  Jesus  21:45, 7 July 2010

Thanks
For adding the UWG split; looks better now. It might fail in PUGs, but PUGs fail *somewhere* regardless. Will give it a go later.  Minion  04:22, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Had another idea for UWG splitting, it might speed things up, not tried it yet:


 * Take out the far end Keepers first, then once keepers die, nec can teleport to Vale and back to Lab. Alot of people have problems with bodyblocking on those far end mobs, this might be easier and less susceptible to fail, due to 1/2 of your resses are camping at Reaper.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 04:39, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

nec equipment missing
can somebody add it? i don't rly know what the nec needs for equip
 * Sorted.

Take some pressure off, ER's? &#8212; Forget  20:18, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was suggested before and disregarded as nonsense. The assassins are supposed to deal as much damage as possible, and trying to coat the ER's job in easy doesn't help achieve that. If the ERs can't do it, they need to get better. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 21:47, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I though of this for dagger rangers using escape, but yeah, people want damages. Even using candy people dont want you. Zedone2 00:03, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Dervish Variant
isnt a warrior variant better than the derv?

more damage thanks to strength and the emanagement isnt vulnerable to stripping Notorious BW 23:42, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to add variants for most physicals when I get time; it's best to put them at the bottom. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 08:10, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * for the earthshaker variant id drop signet of return for either BUH! or Deaths charge. Buh! for some extra damage or deaths charge because it allows the war to get to the more important targets without being body blocked Notorious BW 14:19, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * also it should probably be noted that a zealous hammer is necessary Notorious BW 14:21, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * For the Earthshaker build? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 16:42, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * yea its pretty energy intensive spamming renewing smash and using frenzy Notorious BW 19:57, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

about variants
if you thought up a variant please test it first and discuss it here before you put it on the build page
 * Do you have any suggestions, then? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 10:15, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good luck testing a variant with a physway group. Zedone2 11:12, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't have to test it to know it works. Has PvX taught you nothing? Like how to spell "variant" ;)  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 13:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but how many variants do you know that people - let me correct that - PUGS will agree to use in UW? like how when this was put on wiki the people that ran it before it was on here ran pretty much any physicals. I've heard of Vow of strength Dervs running with Physway. The variants put on here will rarely be accepted by pugs, guild groups will allow them, pugs aren't so open to change. Also, when this was put on here, the wiki clearly had a link to other builds that were perfectly able to run with physway, but these were quickly removed. TRY putting variants on this page, but see how they will rarely be accepted into PUG groups.Zedone2 08:47, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, but there's not much I can do about that. Whenever I do runs, I use any phys I can find.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 09:04, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even The Josip's PI scythe mesmer! Cuilan 18:56, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * :D its quite sad really, how people cant open up. oh well. Zedone2 23:12, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure that Bladed only takes 30? I have tested this with Prot Spirit and the damage from PI happens before. Granted I never tried with Bond.--- X  TREME 10:51, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure. Even if they did, PI's recharge is so bad, and the sins can already deal 200DPS+. PI is only really strong against AoE damage. It'll work against skeletons and Dhuum most effectively. So pretty much a waste unless you want the fight with Dhuum to be as short as possible.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 11:47, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Try it--- X  TREME 14:13, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * maybe it works good against smites too? --Pryon 06:42, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing now that it doesn't work, but that the damage produced if it does work to it's full potential is low compared to what you can pump out with ease, elsewhere. Waste of a skill slot, when it's not really spammable enough.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 17:19, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not make dhuum like terraway? have all of your sins die and have an emo tank dhuum while it (or the other) bonds the team. rit can take PI + BuH and kill dhuum easily while rest fills up at the same time? -note, pi doesnt work on skeleton's skills, only regular attacks. Iouzip4 20:38, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * It would be hard for one of the emos to tank dhuum without a more spammable skill like burning speed. 68.163.251.174 22:24, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * you have spirit bond and shield guardian, are you really that dumb?-- Relyk  talk  22:37, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not to mention Infuse Health, which is AS SPAMMABLE as Burning Speed. The health loss means nothing.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 23:32, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was getting 90 damage per attack.--Xtreme1ne 10:03, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * From PI on an Aatxe? Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 10:21, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * yah--Xtreme1ne 10:28, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're going to die if you decide to spam infuse at dhuum. Iouzip4 16:25, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're only taking 30~max damage per hit, and half your health would only be 200 ish, plenty of time to click Infuse Health yet again. And remember you still have two other prots to spam.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 19:56, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dhuum + 3 Minions + One Champion = 5 hits, so you're cutting it pretty close.. and what about renewing ER? I'll agree to spamming ur prots, but spamming infuse is out of the question.Iouzip4 20:06, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're forgetting he'll be knocked down more than half the time if 1-2 sins are alive, and they'll be targeting the minions as soon as they're spawned.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 20:15, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

I wonder why ppl are fixated on Fox Fangs... For the Stance Removal sin - at least - I think Wild Strike is better (unblockable, fast recharge, decent damage, stance removing strike... and freeing one slot of the build)Himenoinu 11:20, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1/2 activation. It means you attack much faster, and thus have higher DPS. Wild Blow > Wild Strike because you only need stance removal at a few parts and you want it unconditionally. If you took Wild Strike you'd be gimping your DPS for the entire underworld for a handful of enemies. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 11:24, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * True... but it will free a slot for... Crit Agility (IAS) or Drunken Master (IAS) or IaTS (bigger dmg), with the last two being better for the lack of activation time, while the first also gives extra armor... I am yet to try the build (tonight, I think). I'll go for both (in separate runs ofc) and try to draw an conclusion.Himenoinu 12:40, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Firstly, the IAS in this build is already maxed out by Way of the Assassin + essence. Secondly, you will be bonded all the time, so +armour means nothing.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 13:21, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Completely forgot about the PB, sry. All in all, every aspect's covered... I'll try the one posted first, out of respect for the build creators. Then, if I can persuade my guildies into doing it again, I'll swap FF for Wild Strike and pack a dmg increasing skill, to see if I can countery for the .66 sec speed loss^.^ Himenoinu 16:50, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * actually More Armour does actually do something, make SB proc slightly less, occasionally takin the damage you take below the proc threshold :D Jayson MaxxFury 17:42, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meh, that shouldn't really matter, since, well, you're under perma SY.--Digitalfear 18:40, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * We went in last night. It was in NM since the ER eles were new to this. We didn't get either a Necro or a SoS to join us, but we did it... it was ok most of the time (did SoG in 4 minutes). But I've realized the mindblades are more than a pita. With Clumsiness, you bearly get to use a couple of attacks properly (especially when fighting the nines), so yeah... Wild strike isn't that useful there (even if better than Wild Blow when it comes to removing stances).

Anyways... It worked great. Congrats for the build you put together!Himenoinu 09:35, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries, and a tip for countering mindblades' Clumsiness; have the OoP, SoS and his spirits take aggro, ball them up, then have the melee dive in. If you keep spamming Order of Pain, Ether Renewal has little chance if being interrupted also. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 16:34, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Time Completion Of This Run?
-Is it possible to do it within two con-sets?
 * It is possible but you really cannot expect to do it in a PUG team, or even an organised guild without VoIP. You cannot dick around if you really want to save 4k on the run. Personally, I'd rather enjoy it than play in silence.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 19:13, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Under 60 Minutes
| 52 Minutes If you want to learn how to get faster times, and yes WITHOUT splitting, give us a pm. --Lord Valvoga  19:22, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you please shrink that image or just link to it? Not all of us are on large monitors. Toraen TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 19:23, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Why don't you just edit the guide? You don't want the world and their dog PMing you. I know I don't.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 19:40, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it was argued in Archive 2 about this not being for time, so we shall give this special privilege to learn from us, for those who actually care about a decent time.--Lord <font color="Black">Valvoga  19:46, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * If it means you have to use full consets, then I'd rather not. But if you have a technique to speeding up the run considerably, you should share it. I never said I didn't care about the time, it's just not a priority. I don't see how you're doing it either, and would like to know. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 20:00, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3 Essences = 12k while 2 Consets = 16k. 4k, which is like what 500g more per person to save 30 minutes of our time and be able to do 2 runs in the time it takes you to do 3. If 500g is a lot of money i can understand why you wouldn't.--<font color="Red">Lord <font color="Black">Valvoga  20:03, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * You still haven't answered me.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 20:08, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * K well we do use Full Consets, not too sure how much time we gain by doing so as we haven't done it with just Essences all the way through. I wouldn't say we have a technique for speeding up the run considerably, its more little things we do to save maybe 1-2 minutes in every area, each area being something different and not worth explaining and confusing pugs by editing YOUR guide. Also it helps if you dont wait 2-3minutes during each area guiding people, people knowing what to do already can give you a much better time.(And this being said its not like we sit on vent and stay quiet and listen to someone telling us what to do, we have fun as well and joke around.--commenting on your previous reply to an earlier post) If you would like to see some of the little things we do ask to come on a run, and be the judge of whats pug friendly and whats not and edit the guide after. Or just pm one of us as we mentioned above.--<font color="Red">Lord <font color="Black">Valvoga  20:27, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to come on a run. I can bring an ER, MoP, or sin - but I have little experience outside of ER.Aina Galamarth 02:18, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

I may have written the bulk of this guide, but take into account this is a wiki. Also, you have managed to properly make it area-specific, whereas all I did was make a balanced team guide with our "general" physway style team.  Minion  21:02, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * The person likely doesn't know how to speed it up, as he likely wasn't leading or paying attention. Just an attention whore. Cuilan 21:21, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * There isn't some insanely pro tactic that somehow glitches the run and takes 30minutes off the guide.--<font color="MidnightBlue">INS0MNI4 <font color="MidnightBlue">  23:54, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you actually read my previous post you would see where we speed things up, and Lord Valvoga=lil sin that could --<font color="Red">Lord <font color="Black">Valvoga  23:59, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * From what I've heard it does sound possible, but I will have to try it before editing the guide to reflect this. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 00:07, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm mainbarring DC over SY on all sins, as SY is just preventing Spirit Bond from triggering. IaU still optional though; and we can also add Can't Touch This! on one, which makes Mountains a breeze area. Minion  18:51, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You just made it all crap again? BUH is maybe better than IAtS and IAU is pretty useless, only anti-kd. Alternative skillbars are now screwed, that's why the variants exists. If you want some pro 4h, take two solo terras to duo it and pop some stuff. 95.154.230.252 08:40, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't agree to adding IaU; but DC and CTT makes certain quests safer, faster and easier (namely mountains, UWG and Pools/Pits) Having 3-4 DCers can be quite useful if used correctly.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 09:11, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Ditch 2 of the WoTA's for 2 terra's, most teams fail at 4Horseman, taking 2 terra's to clear mounts and pits then onto 4H would be a safer variant.
 * You don't need two. I have run with one Terra before though, and TLH currently do so regularly in their team. The one terra does Mountains (and quest), Pools and quest, clears Pits ready for quest AND tanks Pools side of 4H.


 * We now use a different tactic for 4H, which I'lll have to edit in soon. Camping spawns. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 14:18, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Derv Protectors vs Power Strike
About this Derv:

isnt it better to take Power attck with no cast time and unconditional dmg over Protectors 3/4 mooving foe?
 * I's about fast-attack skills. You might not get the conditional damage, but you will trigger GDW, SoH and OoP alot more often. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 08:25, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Both power and protectors have 3sec recharge time...
 * It's the attack-speed, not the recharge. With IAS, you attack faster with a skill that has a cast time designated. It exceeds the regular weapon speed. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 08:32, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

huh ootv?
i thought the oop build was way better than the ootv build so why is it ootv now and why is oop not even a variant? --Pryon 11:52, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Much more reliable and I've not noticed a speed deficiency since the change. Ymlad can now be taken to take out single problems; i.e. Ench strips, cripple BDRs to kite without having to kill, preventing perhaps one Flurry of Splinters in a horde of 4~ Skeletons, if lucky. It has it's uses as a ranged 100% chance Knockdown. Energy on OoP without CF dwindled, and therefore OoP isn't as maintainable as OoV. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 13:59, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * OotV doesn't benefit from Asuran Scan and BUH!, health again is kinda sucky too. Bad idea imho. --Myotheraccount 12:00, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the extra health gain you can make better splits successful more consistently. But really,either bar is fine. Personal preference. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 16:18, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Guide
Needs thinning out. It's been edited by quite a few people now, and methods have changed. If someone wants to rephrase it all to make it less... Tough to digest; that'd be good. I'm too lazy to do it myself. Atleast not until I get really bored. Minion  22:42, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone stll doing physway?
IS anyone still using this build? cuz i barely see anyone in ToA or anywheere and my guild have stopped doing it, so i'm wondering if you guys are still using this build? Cuz i would be happy to tag alone, and i got some experience - Ben
 * no one runs it because it's slow as shit and a waste of time--TahiriVeila 22:20, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * So then why is it rated meta and great? Remove the meta tag at least if it's not being used as much. Though I also have to ask, what is the current speed clear/ecto farm meta? LordTaros 16:58, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's as slow as your team make it. Every guild that run it have their own tactics that can widely range times from 1:00 to 1:30. I hear Terraway is still popular. And yes, I agree Physway is awful and should be removed from PvX. It's not Meta, nor great (Seeing as it takes a degree of skill to use effectively; this cannot be expected of farmers.) Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 15:30, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

We'll me and my friends/allies still run UW everyday, except we don't run Physway too much anymore. We run our own version much more stable and faster version. Vosway. Look us up sometime too join usMeestermenzo 13:43, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * a friend told me about vosway, can't you put it on pvx? pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top? --Pryon 19:30, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Well off course, no problem and actually the page has been made last week. Me and my friends are the build creators and page creators. My in-game name is Arianne Aeon Lilly. Jyst typ in Vosway in search. Ask us a question if needed or if you want to run with us. Cya. Meestermenzo 20:00, September 13, 2010 (UTC) 19:59, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * sweeeeeeeeeet --Pryon 20:20, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll run with you if you don't act like retards. <font color="#B22">¬ Docta Rask <font color="#700">Jenkins  21:15, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * You know why we called it Physway? Because it had physicals in the team. VoSway=Physway. Stop trying to make it sound like a brand new idea, as you can really have any bars on the physicals if you're not after efficiency. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 05:23, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The term in no way reflected that sins used their primary weapon instead of sf and could be liberally interpreted as any melee as noted on the build page, hence why the build requires dagger sins to use while provided scythe variants for other professions. owait...-- Relyk  talk  05:32, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The bars are only as specific as they are because people who come to PvX wish to be nannied to such an extent. They're forever changing anyway, and this backline is outdated already. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 06:53, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * i got a few things to say 1.if you got critics on vosway talk about it on that talk page this is physway talk page 2.nearly every idea is based on something else so don't nag about things not being 100% original 3.just because this build is called physway means you can't have another build that uses melee for UW? 4. lets WELL physway cause its not being used anymore--Pryon 16:47, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * We get that you support whatever the other version is - promote it somewhere else. and you archive superior outdated builds not WELL them.--Chieftain Alex 17:01, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

archive
I agree with the archive --Pryon 06:15, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * A minor amount of players are still using this. It's not Meta, but it's still a Good team that's being used. No archive until ER or another important skill is nerfed.  Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 06:38, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fallen out of favor is a reason for archive. This was only kept at the time because it became meta. Atm it truly is slow and inefficient compared to other options. Life   Guardian  06:54, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Archive it then. Minion Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg 07:59, October 1, 2010 (UTC)