Archive talk:Team - 2 Man Discordway/Archive 2

Archived Talk
It was large and causing some lag for users. Frosty  po!  19:11, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * ty Frosty. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 19:12, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks Frostyyyyy, here are the up-to-date suggestions

19:25, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Chaos' Suggestion



 * Problem with the first bar: Energy. You don't have energy management and you have a 25 energy skill with a 3 10 energy skills.
 * Problem with the second bar: Energy again. You don't have energy management and you have a couple of 15 energy spells with a couple of 10 energy spells.


 * Although you have soul reaping, running out of energy before your opponents die result in a slowing down of vanquishing, and thus lowering the efficiency of the build in general.
 * Pika Fan  19:56, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * I have to agree with Pika on this one. Also, you are using 2 people as healers? Just seems like overkill to me. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:02, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Hero healers are not as good as human healers. Best to take at least 2-3, plus it's for HM, better safe than sorry.Pika Fan  20:04, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Take out the 4th discord bar, add Dwayna's Sorrow on the 3rd bar imo, DS takes care of heals. 4th bars is overkill healz. [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 20:06, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Also, heroes are notoriously bad at using FF unless you plan on microing it (which I wouldn't seeing as this is supposed to be done with as little micromanagement as possible) I would remove it. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:08, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * It's not the issue of FF in this case, you have MBAS already, which is condition removal/healing on steroids.Pika Fan  20:09, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * No I'm just saying that heroes never even use the skill. Its a waste of a spot unless you plan on microing it. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:11, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * I have seen masters use it very often. It's not the point, MBAS is enough condition removal.Pika Fan  20:12, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Pika's Suggestion


Wrote them up to Miniskillbars so we don't get loads of TB screens, prefer it to be mostly like this if loads of suggestions are going to be made, this way you can also update the suggestions easily instead of re uploading pics Frosty  po!  19:40, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Good point frosty :D Shoulda done that >< Hmmmm... Can I re-write them as Dont's skillbars w/ attributes? ^^ [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 19:47, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Go ahead. It doesn't disrupt the page anyway.Pika Fan  19:48, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * It was more of a "Is it necessary/useful?" kind of question. Shard runs fail >.< Another BDS-less run! cheer [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 19:50, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Actually, I'm pretty sure it was Dont's skill bars that were messing with my browser. It was trying to load all of the mini skill bar information once I reached them, creating terrible lag. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 19:51, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Hmmm... Didn't lag at all for me. Maybe because I had all the info cached. Idk... [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 19:52, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * EDIT: Drah, if you want, I'll copy-paste those bars into Dont bars and put them in an empty page to see if you lag on that as well? It might just have been the sheer size of the page... Ideas? [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 19:54, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah sure. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 19:56, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * I'll get working on that in about 10-15 minutes, Fendi's taking forever >.< If that's not the cause of your lag, any opposition to replacing them with the Dont bars? [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 19:59, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * lol, and if its not then no, there shouldn't be any opposition. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:03, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Go wild [[Image:Frostrage.jpg|19px]]Frosty  po!  20:04, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * I wouldnt take hexes that benefit from prolonged duration and have long cooldowns like MoP or Rising Bile. --Anonimous. D: 20:17, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Fair enough, since you will be spiking down targets really fast. However, I kept barbs for bosses.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  20:20, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Drah's Suggestion
-- Dr ah   20:24, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Aegis is a better option for HM PvE, since your foes tend to change targets faster than you can say hello. Also, the whole point of discordway is to spam discord, sacrificing discord for support elites greatly reduce your clearing speed. Pure Was Li Ming is a poor choice in PvE unless there is a condition overload in the area you are entering, and even so, I would suggest your prot necro to run RC anyway.<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  20:28, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Fair enough. 6 Discords seems like overkill though, having support elites means you don't have to bring 2-3 healers. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:30, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * EDIT: also I originally had aegis in but I changed it to dwayna's sorrow. fixed. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:32, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Well, the main damage in this build is from discord, really. The point of this build is to spike down targets hard and fast. <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  20:33, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * I dont like SoR, not worth losing one Discord. --Anonimous. D: 20:35, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Problem with that is, when your party goes under pressure, they want to stop using discord and start healing (From my experience) so adding the additional discords wont change much than the initial spike. Also they should be highly spec'd into resto and soul reaping meaning that death magic is going to have a lower than optimal attribute level. @anonimous SoR can be changed. -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:38, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * I beg to differ. I was betting with a friend that I could vanquish faster than him with RoJ smiters as opposed to discord spam, so we vanquished the same map(just outside kaineng center) with both discord and RoJ. Heroes would cast discord after casting 1-2 heals, which does not slow down the run considerably(RoJ won, btw).<font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Pika <font color="#FDD017" face="blackadder itc">Fan  20:43, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * "You don't need two magebanes" is kind of like saying "You don't need two penises." Of course you don't need two, but that doesn't make it any less awesome."--Relyk 20:45, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * what does this have to do with anything... -- Dr ah  [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 20:46, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * replace magebane with discord :<--Relyk 20:47, 18 February 2009 (EST)
 * Relyk, :D been quoting my quotes? Anon, MoP + minion wall = AoE Discord. Barbs is lovely single target damage and easily doubles or triples the damage your minions do. Oh, and btw, you guys have never MM'd in your life. -- &mdash;The preceding trolling attempt was made by Chaos (talk) . 06:01, 19 February 2009 (EST)
 * Chaos, MoP + Discord = nothing because you cast MoP on them, yoiur heroes happily cast Discord, your MoP'ed target is dead good gam you just wasted 10 energy. --Anonimous. D: 11:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Shush, I'm always right. Such a horrible waste of a minion wall. -- &mdash;The preceding trolling attempt was made by Chaos (talk) . 11:43, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No you arent. Discord has never been about minion wall. --Anonimous. D: 10:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It is if one of ur necros is using curses--Relyk 10:50, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hexes are for discord to work, since targets die so fast theres no other purpose. In HM minions pretty much die in one hit (depending on location) so their purpose as wall is rather limited..this just from my experience ofc. (QQ)


 * I agree with Anonimous about MoP, for 2-man discordway. It's been my experience that targets die too fast.  MoP works well in 1-man because you have more control over damage, believe it or not, 3 discorders can't kill in one volley without a caller; 6 however, can, and so MoP is wasted.  I play a necro caller and I usually take barbs/MoP, but for 2 man, i swap out MoP for mark of death.  Barbs is still useful for bosses, and has low recharge anyway.  --Zaney 17:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

IP's Suggestion


This is what I've been running. It's more durable and you have Fall Back to speed things up. Flex the Dwayna's bar for what you need/prefer (more hexes and conditions or more heals). Also, I did this in The Deep with 3 people, one as a tank, and it worked quite well. 68.180.77.16 06:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Lau's Suggestion
Common;

Melee players;

Caster players;

inb4 every elite needing to be Discord. No point in gimping out the rest of your bars just so you can do that - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 14:15, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about if there would be template of 2 MM, 2 boring resto discord and curser + one optional character? Master Elros 16:16, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe, with some suggestions linking to other builds. - <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Athrun <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Feya - 11:21, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Vloxen Excavation
This is the only dungeon I've not been able to run in HM with this build. My team gets raped there pretty fast by Slaver's Exile Stone Summit Dwarves :P Anyone got any suggestions what the build should be there? 78.27.78.227 16:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You'll probably want to bring DW, Enchantment removal (or anti-block), Scourge Healing (and maybe Enchantment), Spoil Victor, Soul Bind and the like, because the Summit Dwarf teams tend to have quite a bit of protection and healing. Also, don't forget Winter, to stop them from rezzing. If you can, try to fight each group separately, because they tend to patrol a lot as well. ــѕт.  мıкε  20:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Frozen spil, not winter--Goldenstar 20:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * my bad ــѕт.  мıкε  20:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

9/8
Why do I think that this is 9-player team? 7 heroes and 2 people... I think discord smiter isnt needed, if you dont have people frontliners.--ValeV 18:15, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There actually is an little or between the party healer and the life restorer in the article. not the mini bars cuz i just added that one <font color="Orange">Fox007  [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 21:29, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Discord Smiter with Scourge Healing
If you dong have melee's as human, I think it's better to use Scourge Healing instead of Strength of Honor. Since you'll always be targeting the healer first, Scourge Healing adds quiet alot of functionality. Also, in groups where there are multiple Healers, Scourge Healing should help alot. In cases where there is only 1 team of Discord spammers, I usualy run this (with 12 Deadly Arts and 12+ Smiting Prayers):

Thonyonline 10:42, 3 August 2009 (CET)
 * We're talking about a build that annihilates your target before you can finish off casting a bad 2s cast smite hex. -- -Ch  ao  s-   11:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Farming FoW
It's possible to farm FoW and do all quests (NM) with this build and it only takes 2h30min to complete. For this you just need a human monk and an human nuker or tanker (personaly I prefer a nuker but it's up to you)
 * It's possiböe yes, I and my friend have done it in 1h35 min but I wouldn't call that farming.

instead of...
instead of a 30+ hp spear. can i use a 30+ hp sword or axe?
 * no, heroes will run up to foes to atack them in melee with a sword/axe wich is bad cuz then they get killed much faster

Splinter Weapon
I don't think this should be taken if the two humans are casters seeing as necros will not cast it. Kracatoan 16:07, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Necroes cast it on people armed with physical weapons caster or not and if you can't improvise so much that you can't change it out i fell sorry for you Master Elros 16:22, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Shush, we're meant to provide the whole builds, not just half of a mainbar. Also, Splinter Weapon is for the minions. -- -Ch  ao  s-   16:40, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but heroes won't cast it on minions, have fun micro-ing. Kracatoan 16:44, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * *Shrug*, come on, I Death Nova all my minions when I MM. -- -Ch  ao  s-   16:50, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yay update! AI will now use splinter wep on minions.

more minions?
just an idea but what if you on every hero addedd in animate bone minions, one human a caller and the other human as a 1hp bip spammer with blood of the master fitted in? would that work? cant be bothered to sign in ARO
 * Fighting for corpses is bad. -- -Chaos- (talk) -- 09:59, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ and I would lol at seeing someone running BiP with Discordway seeing as every kill would get rid of some DP and ruin the concept. Oh and it would fail anyway. Just run the AP,YMLaD,FH and EVAS combo. Kracatoan 13:07, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

well i was really tired and what went thru my head was WTF AWSOMESAUCE MASSIVE MINIION WALL FOR TEH OWNAGE!!!!!111ONE  ARO
 * I always take jagged horror on all heroes and jaggged horror + bone minions on the "mm" ,works awsome

WTB SS/MoP for team
All those lovely Mins running around and no-one doing any extra damage w. SS/MoP!! Can't believw that, Bah ! Drop 1 of the Disco spammers elite skills and add SS/MoP. Apart from that Shadow of Fear is partly counter productive, suggest adding a variant w SS/MoP/Suffering/Reckless (reckless still useful, but not really needed in HM). Try it out sometime Klefer 18:56, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't need it anyways since things blow up in under a second. [[Image:Zyke-Sig.png]] 19:01, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kinda doubt that when it's a boss in Proph or Factions, but heck, you're the expert :/ Klefer 19:03, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * tbh, it wouldn't really be discord way if someone was using SS. And anyway, the moment a hex is on something, even if it is a monk boss, it just blows up in a second so SS/MoP would be useless. Kracatoan 15:45, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * Point taken, however, 6 * Dicso is really over doing it a bit imho. There's a couple of parts in this build which have caused problems for me in the past: The 2 last builds specify +30 spear and shield and have the casters using Kaolai. The two weapons are as good as useless unless you micro these 2 w. Kaolai disabled. I would suggest swapping out at least 1 of these skills (if not both) for Wielder's boon (massive heal for 5 en). There are certain areas of play (the Domains are good instances), where there are a lot of hexes and physical pressure as well, where the suggested change/varaint could be a definite advantage. I would also like to see the Rt healers carrying a +1 restoration offhand w. 30HP instead of the shield. Despite the loss of 8 armor, the upside of this should be obvious. Maybe you're trying to say that SS/MoP is really Sabway and agreed, but that's another discussion. Klefer 09:36, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Using 6*Discord is not "over doing it", when you ecounter a big mob with multiple healers and/or a stong boss, your very happy that you have the 6 discord and sometimes you may even wish you had more. For example when I was vq'ing the Southern Shiverpeaks and I couldn't get that asshole enchantment that those healers cast ripped, i was realy fucked.

HM Vanquishing and the Underworld
Tried this build with a friend and the heroes were dying pretty quickly to the Roaring Ethers and Djinn in Vabbi. While that is their weak spot, I would say they were holding out much better with the single team Discord build. Tbh, I'm unsure what's causing it.

And on the subject of UW, this also doesn't fair too well there. 62.6.162.221 13:50, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then you are doing it wrong--<font color="#b22222"> X 17:23, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just place the heroes far enough apart that SF can only hit one or two of them at a time. Even so, this build generally doesn't need any micro at all, just spike the AoE guys first.--67.161.184.231 20:37, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

No protection?
Everywhere I go, against even 3 or 4 enemies in HM I get murdered when running this. It doesn't seem to happen to other people. 108.56.163.145 20:46, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * The build has protection prayers, weakness, a minion wall and copious amounts of healing. What are you running on yourself (specifically, what build, health, and armor)? <font face="Courier New" color="Black">Toraen <font face="Courier New" color="DarkGoldenrod">TheJanitor [[image:ToraenSig2.png]] 22:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe these builds work fine if you are running an Imbagon or some kind of builds that can spam Save Yourselves all the time, but in general these builds are much less resilient than the December 19, 2009 versions which use 2 resto heroes. As a trial, I tried running the current builds and the Dec 19 builds in Abbadon's Heart in NM (Razah quest area) with the players not doing anything except calling targets for the heroes. The Dec 19 builds could easily handle 2-3 mobs at a time while the current builds get wiped. I suggest anyone having trouble with the current builds use the History feature to go back to the Dec 19 builds with 2 resto heroes. 216.195.26.128 02:29, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you find yourself wanting in defence, drop Discord-team build altogether and adapt Archive:Team - 2 Man Necroway for superior resilience; discord is best used for quick/easy kills, not prolonged battles of attrition. --Falconeye 03:10, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's because some nab retarded IP theorycrafter messed up the bars epicly since I posted it. --<font color="HotPink">Iggy 's other account 08:44, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * The build below is great, a partner and I finished all of Slaver's with it, though fighting Duncan was pretty slow. --67.161.184.231 12:12, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Mah Discord was ruined >:
And thus I feel obliged to fix it.

Any/Any The Caller

/ Discord Restorer

/ Discord Bomber

/ Discord Protter

Any/Any The Leecher

/ Discord Blood

/ Discord Curses

/ Discord Partykiller

OR

Any/Any The Physicalurrr

/ Discord Blood

/ Discord Curses

/ Discord Partykiller

My version If nobody provides a valid argument to why I should not rewrite the crap that IP has put up I will do it to match my version. --<font color="HotPink">Iggy 's other account 14:22, May 2, 2010 (UTC)