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Physical professions

About warrior and paragon: With their high base armor they should be fine as long as they have sufficient energy, no need to add another skill (same as dervish with mysticism). Berserker Stance shouldn't have any effect in HM, same for lightning reflexes. Did you see any effect of those skills in your tests? How about needling shot and dual shot instead to trigger insidious more quickly while reducing Doppelganger's damage output? --Krschkr (talk) 20:25, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

The idea was to make the Doppel spam himself to death sooner with Improved Attack Speed, but after further testing it looks like these skills actually do nothing eventhough he does use them. Strange, wiki doesn't say anything about it either. Don't forget that Mysticism doesn't increase armor without enchants so investing points alone seems pointless in this case. Dual shot sounds like a good idea, hadn't thought of that. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 21:01, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
You get a permanent enchantment in this mission before activating the three stones, remember? That's why one'd want to go for mysticism. --Krschkr (talk) 21:08, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Oh that's clever, haven't considered that.--DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 21:18, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Remember, monsters in HM have an innately boosted attack speed. Thus IAS skills don't have any effect for them. Toraen (talk) 02:30, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Ty, looks like I'll have to refresh my memory on GW PvE mechanics. I'll remove the stances, at least the other skills are tested and working. Focused so much on finding IAS stances he won't avoid using that I didn't pay attention to the timer to notice there's no difference, RIP.--DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 07:03, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

PvE Skills

I think the majority of people who are going to look up a build to do a 1 minute or less mission (like if they are doing it on many characters for the ZB and want it to be fast), will probably have EOTN skills. The Doppleganger can't use EOTN skills, so they should definitely be on the bar; Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support and Pain Inverter? Or list them as optionals...-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 05:22, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Well, the goal is to provide a foolproof build that does the trick with minimal investment (especially for alts as you mentioned). There are a lot of PvE skills that could help, but not everyone will have them and the build already kills the Doppelganger in 30 seconds, so I'm not sure how much we should complicate things. Pain Inverter is useful on most, problem is it takes a lot of questing to get and some classes won't even have the energy to use it. I was hesitant to add "IAU!" too. EVAS doesn't fit, Doppel would use Insidious Parasite on it and you don't want that - tested it with a Monk and it takes about 40% longer with EVAS because he'll cast all skills on the bar, even heal a bit. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 06:45, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Insidious parasite works without extra skills if you have roughly 70 armor and 500 health. Every caster with armor insignias or a shield set reaches that. The extra skills featured, like retribution or empathy, are just here to make this failsafe even with crappy insignia such as survivor's or health considerably below 500. Adding more skills, especially PvE skills, would go completely against what this Any/N page is meant for. Therefore I'd rather drop iau, too, instead of adding more PvE skills. And I'll take a look into replacing the elite skill on the ritualist with a non-PvE non-elite skill. --Krschkr (talk) 10:06, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Sure, but for the sake of simplicity I'd rather not set gear/HP requirements. The extra skills/attributes allow us to skip that part by making the caster more durable and the run shorter. With a lot of unlucky crits he can actually kill you with ~480hp and caster armor (assuming no +armor mods) even with a shield if you don't take other skills (especially if the player gets sloppy with the IP timing and 1 attack slips through between casts). Hmm maybe we could drop IAU and add Enfeebling Blood or Enfeeble for an absolutely risk-free run. As for the rit elite, I haven't found any replacement yet, would be nice though. I don't think that's very problematic however, it's a popular skill for rit farming builds and probably a lot of people have it.--DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 11:11, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Judging from the ritualists I meet in pugs 60% only have signet of spirits and most of the rest only have signet of ghostly might or soul twisting. --Krschkr (talk) 11:26, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Dulled weapon. Tested at 12 communing, 70 armor, 440 health, 30 base energy. Use dulled weapon once after the first insidious parasite. I advise to equip a caster weapon. If nothing is equipped Doppelganger uses dulled weapon (such a smart one). I just had an idea, by the way. How about a long lasting bundle in a build for physicals, so they can just wand Doppelganger to death? :D --Krschkr (talk) 11:35, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Heh the bundle sounds fun but I'm not sure he'd hold it :P Drops the rit elite right after using it for example. Dulled's looking good if we're not going the Enfeeble route.--DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 11:39, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

To Enfeeble or not to Enfeeble

Adding Enfeebling Blood to the main bar makes all the profession specific sustain adjustments unnecessary so we could remove them, coupled with Insidious Parasite you'll never fall below 90% HP. In this case we'd still keep things like Empathy and Retribution as faster options. It's basically class flavor vs simplicity with a tiny bit higher investment into necro skills. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 11:32, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Sounds ok. --Krschkr (talk) 11:38, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
kk made the adjustments. If you have any ideas for shortening run times with minimal investment feel free to add them ^^ --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 11:50, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Guess we can leave it like that, it just works. Fixed a typo and changed the sorting; skills which are useful for everyone should be on top. Ranger has been placed earlier to reflect the game's profession sorting. Just aesthetics, really. --Krschkr (talk) 11:57, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Spoil Victor + Prot Spirit

For Mo/N variant.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 13:38, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Let's try to avoid elite skills, especially elite skills of other classes whenever possible :P Rit skill's there only because there's nothing else for them to speed things up with, Monks have retribution and Nec can take up empathy. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 19:22, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Scourge Sacrifice Awaken the Blood Order of Pain Dark Fury Optional Optional Optional Optional
If you're playing a monk try this, it's hilarious. Don't spend any attribute points and just use Scourge Sacrifice at the start, then enjoy the show. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 18:51, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
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