Don't judge a book by its cover[]
The build looks fairly random and Second Wind isn't exaclty the most meta skill ever, but with a little practice this becomes very effective because it's extremely hard to shut down - enchant removal does nothing, energy draining does nothing, most interrupts get soaked by the stance + enchant combo, and the enchant can also prevent KD on a 10s CD while some skills can dish out 100+ damage to squishy targets. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 21:51, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
- Is this actually run in organized GvG/HA or more of a BYOB thing? The issue I see with it there is that it gives up the powerful effects of elementalist elites (which are usually the reason you take an ele in higher-end PvP) and doesn't pack much utility in the other skills. In particular, what sort of team comps use and prefer this? Also organized teams tend to make midline characters take additional utility rather than self-defense skills. Toraen (talk) 05:19, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- I've seen this being used as a split build in GvG a couple of times, in HA it's definitely more on the BYOB side of things, I wouldn't use it there. Its real strength is RA, especially when the enemy team has a ranger/mesmer combo which could force any other ele to play very defensively with fake casts and careful positioning. If my memory serves me well the stance completely negates D-shot and Magebane too. Also fares well against necro, as enchant removals can't hinder its effectiveness. The build does give up a strong offensive elite skill, but if we factor in how good it is at energy/HP management and in some situations can completely ignore interrupts it has very consistent damage with little to no downtime. Besides, the less you depend on your team in RA the better. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 09:07, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- It'd probably be best to remove the HA tag then, and note that it's used for splitting in GvG (as well as add any usage specific to that role and maybe recommended split partners). It did seem more like an RA build with the dual 'stance' setup for defense, which is why I asked. Toraen (talk) 10:17, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Makes sense, removed HA and added a mention of splitting. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 10:40, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- It'd probably be best to remove the HA tag then, and note that it's used for splitting in GvG (as well as add any usage specific to that role and maybe recommended split partners). It did seem more like an RA build with the dual 'stance' setup for defense, which is why I asked. Toraen (talk) 10:17, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
- Hardly anyone uses this build, but it handles necro + ranger better than most other split eles: see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEBNMo2IARA#t=15m30s (I should have tried to kill the Necro instead of hitting the Ranger, I think it was very possible, and would have made for a much more entertaining video and match. The weakness was me and not the build :) ) Phomatabih (talk) 19:07, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
- I've seen this being used as a split build in GvG a couple of times, in HA it's definitely more on the BYOB side of things, I wouldn't use it there. Its real strength is RA, especially when the enemy team has a ranger/mesmer combo which could force any other ele to play very defensively with fake casts and careful positioning. If my memory serves me well the stance completely negates D-shot and Magebane too. Also fares well against necro, as enchant removals can't hinder its effectiveness. The build does give up a strong offensive elite skill, but if we factor in how good it is at energy/HP management and in some situations can completely ignore interrupts it has very consistent damage with little to no downtime. Besides, the less you depend on your team in RA the better. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 09:07, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
To me this build looks like a frontliner build--3-4 damage skills and the rest to power those skills up. I thought casters were supposed to have a lot of utility--- IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 05:04, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Use every effect of every skill[]
Toraen and I had a [[discussion]] about bringing self-heals in pvp. He is of the opinion that you should only bring self heals for split in gvg. in my opinion a self-heal is fine to bring if you are already specced into the attribute. i think we must not forget that one of the effects of this elite is heal, which means it is either an RA build or a split build, and, if this build goes main in gvg which already has 3 monks, it is a waste of an elite slot.--- IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 15:51, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
- It's a different situation, pure self-heals normally have no place on a DPS bar. Second Wind only makes sense because it's basically 3 skills rolled into one, freeing up slots - it replaces Air Attunement, another energy management skill, and some sustain skill you'd take for splitting in GvG. The downside is that it can only be used on the caster (unlike something like Prot Spirit) so it has less party utility, the positive is that it's basically almost uncounterable infinite energy/great heals. The healing in RA is just an added bonus, not a necessity. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 16:49, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
- With this build you're not supposed to ever go to your main team. You don't have a good enough speed boost to collapse properly, instead great survivability to stay in split. If your opponents send two damage against you, you can run back to your base and delay the opposing split until you get help. With builds like this or a zurrie dervish you avoid going to your main team as that's not where the build shines. Likewise, you wouldn't send a fleshwound paragon to split. That's just not what those builds are designed for. --Krschkr (talk) 17:41, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you're splitting you normally wouldn't be running res signet. You could bring Windborne Speed instead of res. You could keep Fleeting Stability (good vs lsurge) or have some other Flash Enchantment of the day (e.g. Conviction, Harrier's Grasp, Veil of Thorns) or replace it with Shell Shock/Blind or even Deep Freeze. Cute Lethal Puppy (talk) 03:46, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- I think Krschkr closed the original point of this section. To be clear, what I meant by the title of this section is that if you're not using every effect of every skill you have, it's a wasted slot.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 21:40, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- Krschkr was talking about split builds that can collapse and he was assuming that you'd use the RA variation with res for a GvG split which is not normally what you'd do. It is obvious the RA version can't collapse as fast with just fleeting stability but if you want a build that can collapse or do other stuff you can just use a variation (like one of those already listed in Oct 2017, or something else) that makes better sense for what you want or need. Don't assume "I must use the RA version with a res signet" and then go "Oh no this build can't do X in GvG". Lastly you don't have to use every effect of a skill. Some good warrior builds have body blow even if the whole team has no cracked armor; or protector's strike even if they seldom hit moving targets with it (what they hit with it is often KDed with deep wound). Assuming you must use every effect of a skill to have a viable build is fallacious and limiting. Cute Lethal Puppy (talk) 17:01, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- I think Krschkr closed the original point of this section. To be clear, what I meant by the title of this section is that if you're not using every effect of every skill you have, it's a wasted slot.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 21:40, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- If you're splitting you normally wouldn't be running res signet. You could bring Windborne Speed instead of res. You could keep Fleeting Stability (good vs lsurge) or have some other Flash Enchantment of the day (e.g. Conviction, Harrier's Grasp, Veil of Thorns) or replace it with Shell Shock/Blind or even Deep Freeze. Cute Lethal Puppy (talk) 03:46, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- With this build you're not supposed to ever go to your main team. You don't have a good enough speed boost to collapse properly, instead great survivability to stay in split. If your opponents send two damage against you, you can run back to your base and delay the opposing split until you get help. With builds like this or a zurrie dervish you avoid going to your main team as that's not where the build shines. Likewise, you wouldn't send a fleshwound paragon to split. That's just not what those builds are designed for. --Krschkr (talk) 17:41, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Enchants Removed/Fleeting Stability[]
Problem.--- IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 05:03, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- It's a 4 second enchantment (5 with mod) that you use only when you need it either as fuel for Pious, IMS to get somewhere, or to prevent a knockdown (which will cause it to end early anyway). If you've successfully cast Second Wind you don't really need it up anymore right that second (and it recharges in 10s). AutoToraen (talk) 07:48, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- I can still see an issue in a panic situation--there's a dev hammer war about to hit you but you need a heal: you cast Fleeting stability when you saw the war coming for you, but an ele's on you and you're at half hp, you hit Second Wind for a heal, lose Fleeting Stability, hammer war KDs you. But experienced players will work around this I suppose.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 16:25, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
- Generally, you're going to want to wait for the hammer to waste their KD on Fleeting before using Second Wind because you really don't want to get hit with a follow-up Crushing Blow if you can help it. Ideally, you don't use Fleeting until they're about to hit with the KD (otherwise they'll likely just wait it out) which gives you freedom to use Second Wind whenever you need it. Toraen (talk) 10:07, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- Also if they have used flail or ended their enraging charge you can run away while they wait it out. If they don't wait it out fleeting also allows you to continue running from the warrior after their dev/bulls fails to KD you. Often better to not stay around near damage to heal if your ally monk(s) could heal you. By the way Fleeting Stability has a 20% chance of recharging in 5 seconds if you wield an appropriate staff, so your average running speed at 6 Earth Prayers is +14.4% and slightly slower than of dash (+18.75%) so you can't reliably outrun Monk flaggers (you need to "win the lottery" and get a big stretch of HRTs). Cute Lethal Puppy (talk) 16:07, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- Generally, you're going to want to wait for the hammer to waste their KD on Fleeting before using Second Wind because you really don't want to get hit with a follow-up Crushing Blow if you can help it. Ideally, you don't use Fleeting until they're about to hit with the KD (otherwise they'll likely just wait it out) which gives you freedom to use Second Wind whenever you need it. Toraen (talk) 10:07, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- I can still see an issue in a panic situation--there's a dev hammer war about to hit you but you need a heal: you cast Fleeting stability when you saw the war coming for you, but an ele's on you and you're at half hp, you hit Second Wind for a heal, lose Fleeting Stability, hammer war KDs you. But experienced players will work around this I suppose.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 16:25, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Skill Order[]
Will make more sense to people if it's set up this way:
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-Skill 1 must be used to rupt if you can time it. Putting in first slot might make people understand this. -- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 16:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
- Our presented skill order doesn't really matter. People use different keybinds. Toraen (talk) 10:09, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- Ok, I'll change it anyhow.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 17:51, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes for example my skill order is:
- Ok, I'll change it anyhow.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 17:51, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
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- For maximum spikiness you'd do 1,2,3,4 on my bar. For sneakier spike you'd do 1,3,4. If there was a mes/ranger you'd do 8,6,1,2,3,4. Try to maintain glyph of immolation but remember even if it runs out but the target is still burning Teinai will still do the extra conditional damage and rupt. Cute Lethal Puppy (talk) 14:31, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- If we're nitpicking about skill order, why did you put Teinai before the Glyph? Ideally you'd either already have burning on the target, or apply it with Glyph + Teinai. Separating them and putting the Glyph after all the dmg skills doesn't really highlight synergy. --DefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 15:01, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
- I always would put rupts in #1.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 21:41, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
Equipment[]
I use the following attributes:11+1+1 Air, 9+1 Fire, 9+1 Estorage, 6 Earthp. Prismatic Insignia, almost always at +10armor.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 16:35, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Hard to Use[]
After testing this build, maintaining Pious Concentration, Fleeting Stab, and keeping up enough energy along with the high cost of Lightning Orb, is too much. The build might work well after a lot of practice and experience, but it is very hard to get used to. I found myself needing to use Second Wind too much when I tested it. I think it's better to put other defensive skills in place of the derv skills and just play well to avoid rupts.-- Saxazaxx - IGN: Saxazax I (capital i) or Saxazax I I - (talk) 16:32, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
- Use higher energy storage and your weapon sets, watch my video and note that Blinding Flash costs more than Fleeting Stability and has a faster recharge. See in the second match ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAMF9_l_BCE#t=5m10s), a normal ele would be more useless and low on energy, there were two mesmers who would be able to shutdown an lsurge or mind burn ele easily with their normal rupts and not be forced to use stuff like complicate. By the way actually I should be using my 40/40 set more for stuff like blind and lstrike but I think my ping makes weapon switching slower. Cute Lethal Puppy (talk) 14:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC)