hero version for panic, dont know why it was deleted earlier--Relyk talk 11:09, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

bcoze it sucks???... just a thought85.246.132.130 11:28, July 31, 2010 (UTC) enormous

Heroes dont use it as good as a human, but because of its huge radius it works pretty well even on heroes.Illoyon 14:47, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Why not just have a hero variant in the main article? Erring Ryft 18:10, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

I've formatted the optional skills, but it's not clear to me the purpose of Dwayna's Sorrow (cause there aren't other healing skills along).--Aria Frost Panic.jpg talk 12:34, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

wat? how does panic suck? ive been using gwen with a panic bar and shits loleasy...well more than usual. yea heroes use it poorly at times but its usually not an issue and if you really have an issue with it then just ball them before hand and micro panic. Lann-Revive Animal.jpgLong Cat 22:11, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

wastrel's demise

totally goes in the mainbar. new version is lawlsy. 17:19, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

WW and Overload I think should be mainbar. Lyssan55 13:39, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
wastrels worry and demise suck in general pve, overload would be pretty good though--Relyk talk 15:27, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Leech Signet

... is probably better in PvE due to the recharge, and with that inspiration score you get +2 more energy than power block. All you lose is the ability to interrupt chants, which is hardly even mentionable. :o 20:49, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Uh, at 9 insp leech gives back 10e, and drain gives 19 - 5 = 14e. They have the same base recharge, but drain also gets the PvE fastcasting recharge bonus (4 seconds off in this case). I'm assuming you meant power drain and not power block. -- ToraenTheJanitorToraenSig2.png 01:39, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Also, Leech Signet can interrupt chants. In fact, it can interrupt any action, while Power Drain can only interrupt spells and chants. It does only give energy on interrupted spells though, while Power Drain gives energy on interrupted spells and chants. Dzjudz 01:49, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

wastrel's demise

does a hero use it on more then one target? If not it is just not worth bringing on a hero... 09:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

i don't think they do Ryuwizard98 04:58, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Drain Delusions

Why not? AsuraSignature.jpgAnvil Godzzz... 19:49, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Hero won't recognise the difference between removing Panic/Mistrust/WW/WD which is pretty epic fail on behalf of the hero. (only panic wouldn't care)-- Chieftain Alex Sig.jpg Chieftain Alex 20:34, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Panic is also the one that hexes all the foes. I personally don't use any of the Wastrel's but coupling it with an Illusion Mesmer for a greater chance of draining something not so useful doesn't seem like a bad idea for e-manage. Maybe it's better to throw it onto the Illusion Mesmer though. AsuraSignature.jpgAnvil Godzzz... 20:43, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
It removes any mesmer hex, not only those of your own. It's really counterproductive when running both domination and illusion mesmers, which everyone does these days. Just use something useful like drain enchantment if you need additional e-management. Phantom pain + drain delusions is nice for a human though. Vorpal Ether Renewal.jpg 20:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Exactly. I'd rather waste Arcane Conundrum/Clumsiness. AsuraSignature.jpgAnvil Godzzz... 20:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
So you'd remove a hex that would deal 100 damage (100 AoE if you hit Wandering Eye) just so you can get enough energy to cast another skill that does maybe 100 damage? And you'd waste a skill slot just to do that? When you already have rediculous energy management options through Power Drain, WNWN, and Drain Enchantment? Sounds pretty retarded, IMO. --Jai. - 22:09, May 24 2011 (UTC)
Actually its removing a hex that would deal 100 damage just so you can get enough energy to cast another skill that does 100 AoE damage. AsuraSignature.jpgAnvil Godzzz... 22:16, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Unless of course you hit Mistrust or Wandering Eye. But either way, there are very, very few times when you would need that amount of additional energy management when you already have several skills that return a lot of energy (there's also Leech Signet) and don't lower the damage of the build. --Jai. - 22:24, May 24 2011 (UTC)


could be optional, unless AI uses it on casters with energy Fianchetto 03:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)


I suggest giving this page a different name. Panic is a strong, but overrated skill. Playing energy surge is very common, visions of regret and psychic instability are also seen every now and then. It should be more general, as it's a Domination Magic Mesmer Hero which can run panic if desired. --Krschkr (talk) 19:31, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

I could have sworn we had Esurge vetted separately for heroes, but it appears it really was just relegated to a footnote on this build. PI does have a separate build, though maybe it should just be listed on the generic dom and illusion bars. Toraen (talk) 06:45, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Recent changes

I agree with most changes made. Some notes:

  • I disagree with the explanation for Shatter Hex: it's just an all around great skill, there are tons of hexes you don't want on your party, and not just when you are melee.
  • I don't really see why Spiritual Pain would be more useful against non-casters. It's great against anything: instant, spamable respectable damage on top of it decimating summons.
  • I wouldn't recomend to bring Backfire, but guess we might aswel list it as optional
  • I feel like it's also worth listing Leech Signet
  • Not a fan of Vengeance tbh ^^

ZStepmother (talk) 14:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Feel free to change those things, this is the public build space where everyone is responsible for keeping the quality up. And you, other than I, at least give reasons to your change proposal instead of completely changing the entire page without discussing or explaining it, like I did. As you gave reason to your change proposal let me share my opinion on these:
  • My experience is that heroes use this mainly to exclusively as a damage skill while in combat, in stark contrast to smite hex. Only outside of combat (or when they consider themselves out of combat because you don't attack foes and they currently don't attack either, or because the combat just initiated and they didn't yet engage) they'll use it on any hexed party member. But you're right, even if my observation is spot on shatter hex will usually be worth it because of melee foes.
  • Without spiritual pain/empathy there are just two skills this hero can use against non-casters, so I thought it was pointing out that spiritual pain slightly helps with that; especially in teams with 3 to 5 of these mesmers.
  • It does a pretty good job, especially against healers and 19 fast casting hex spam mesmers, but I wouldn't shed a single tear of the skill was removed from the page. :p
  • Go for it.
  • Hehehe. As long as death pact signet and flesh of my flesh stay I don't really mind which other resurrection skills are mentioned. Just make sure they appear below the ritualist rezzes.
So, please perform these changes, they make sense. --Krschkr (talk) 15:00, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Backfire has its uses, I'd prefer it stayed listed. -Toraen (talk) 15:03, 9 September 2018 (UTC)


Now it's gone. But it's such a strong and fun skill wherever there isn't much enchantment removal! Heroes seem to use it with much higher priority than flesh of my flesh, so instead of waiting and waiting until a hero finally resurrect I usually was picked up right away with this skill. --Krschkr (talk) 22:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Prodigy versus Stalwart

I've found that prodigy's insignias look great in writing but don't work well in combat:

1) The heroes rarely get to 5 recharging skills 2) Mesmers get attacked by melee, causing them to run (not casting) - Thus stalwart 3) Any time a boss dies, all prodigy-based armor is reset to 0. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Al-Firehazard (talk) at 10:45, 23 August 2021 (UTC).

I disagree with the change for the following reasons:
  • The insignias start being useful with one recharging skill, become fairly effective at three and great at five. One recharging skill is the case at basically all times. Three recharging skills is your situation three seconds into a fight and it won't go below that while the fight is ongoing. Five recharging skills is usually rare, but prodigy's is already useful below its optimal performance.
    • To be on the safe side, I checked this as a reference as it has four mesmers with somewhat standard builds. The moment a fight starts, the mesmers have +5 armour. Shortly thereafter they have three recharging skills for +10, and they don't really drop below that.
  • Prodigy provides general armour rating, stalwart is type sensitive. Stalwart will only help against physical weapon attacks with spears, bows and melee weaponry and even then not in all cases. For example many dervishes have damage type conversions. The most dangerous bow users are Charr hunters and enchanted bows, the former deal fire damage. Wanding damage and elementalists deal non-physical damage all the time. And as we know, elementalists are the most dangerous source of armour respective damage in most cases. If possible it's always preferable to have a reliable type insensitive armour bonus (prodigy) than a type sensitive one (stalwart).
  • Skill recharges due to morale boosts are rare. When they occur, the fight is either already decided or point 1 returns, prodigy insignias are useful again the second after a boss has been slain.
Prodigy is a safe choice and outperforms stalwart, so it should remain the recommended equipment. --Krschkr (talk) 15:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
agree to revert Juniper real (talk) 14:19, 28 August 2021 (UTC)


I think Energy Surge should be promoted to mainbar on this page, with others listed as "Elite skill variants" instead of "Elite skill choices". Esurge is the most generally recommendable, while Panic is situational and VoR is very niche (it seems unnecessarily limiting to teambuilding outside of party size 4 and possibly 6). VoR's not actually given any mention in any team build on PvX currently so maybe it should be dropped. Psychic Instability is mentioned in a team in relation to this build so it should probably be listed. Toraen (talk) 14:54, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Since energy surge has evolved to the meta skill choice I've moved it to the main bar and added PI as an elite skill variant. --Krschkr (talk) 14:51, 5 December 2021 (UTC)