Feydslynox suggested to post it publically :) It's not my build, just converted this reddit post into a pvx format: https://redd.it/8ul60x
I'm still testing its effectiveness with various player/flag positions, but so far it seems to have an ~80% success rate.
If you have any suggestions how to improve it, go ahead, I'm not a theorycrafter myself 😅 -- kazerniel (talk) 17:47, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
Accessibility: Zei Ri
If possible we should try to tweak this team so it works without Zei Ri/mercenary heroes so it's accessible to a wider audience. If anyone is up to test some variants...
We'd want to replace one of the ritualists with a non-ritualist and non-mesmer. Let's first consider replacing the signet of spirits ritualist. I expect that its main purpose is to deal damage and distract foes with the increased amount of available targets, and its secondary use to provide some extra healing. Both functionalities could be covered by a third necromancer:
If the healing is not required or you want to level a ranger hero, this might be a working alternative:
Alternatively, since this is only normal mode, the team may work without the communing ritualist prot if we add a second minion master with some party-wide protection. Could also work with another meme golem.
If you test one of these, please let me know what the effect on the team performance is. If it increases the fail rate, please tell me in which kind of situation the team falls apart. --Krschkr (talk) 13:56, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- Wow, did this years ago and found some of the old tweaked builds I used. It's a mess but I remembered having ~100% success rate with some of those so it can definitely be achieved. Some observations, take this with a grain of salt. Indeed it works really well without a communing prot, and I ditched it at the time, replacing it with a SoGM ritualist, which was just better IIRC :
- If doing this without Zei Ri, a ranger SoGM is a great option, I'd be in favor of having it listed. Another viable one is having Razah as a Rit and swapping one of the Ineptitude Mesmers for a Blinding Surge Ele (with additional para skills). It worked at the time.
- Two MM's might work with two meme Golems but not AotL + Golem imo, as AotL might eat too much corpses at the same time, leaving the other MM starved and useless. Yea I could see this working with two Golems, needs to be tested. Feydslynox (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
I suggest to test the following build tweaks:
- Reconsider hex eater signetFactionsMesmer. Inspiration Magic Hex Eater SignetSignetTarget touched ally and up to 2..4..5 adjacent allies each lose one Hex. You gain 1..3..4 Energy for each Hex removed this way.125 on the illusion mesmers. According to the wiki there are only four hexes in this mission. ClumsinessCoreMesmer. Illusion Magic ClumsinessHex SpellFor 4 seconds, the next time target and any adjacent foes attack, the attack is interrupted and target foe suffers 10..76..97 damage.1028 will often trigger before the hero gets to remove it. Binding chainsFactionsRitualist. Communing Binding ChainsHex SpellFor 3 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes move 90% slower and take 1..24..32 damage each second while moving.10115 will run out before the hero gets to remove it, and is not relevant. Conjure phantasmCoreMesmer. Illusion Magic Conjure PhantasmHex SpellFor 2..13..17 seconds, target foe experiences -5 Health degeneration.1015 is not dangerous and illusion of painFactionsMesmer. Illusion Magic Illusion of PainHex SpellFor 8 seconds, target foe has -3..9..10 Health degeneration and takes 3..9..10 damage each second. When Illusion of Pain ends, that foe is healed for 36..103..126.1025, while it's fun to remove it for the heal, is not that dangerous either. Is there a good reason to play these mesmers without arcane conundrumCoreMesmer. Illusion Magic Arcane ConundrumHex SpellFor 5..13..16 seconds, Spells cast by target foe and all adjacent foes take twice as long to cast. When this hex ends, you gain 1..6..7 Energy.10220? It's one of the best illusion magic skills and should fit well into this team.
- I suppose this team, like most others, would benefit from a Blood is PowerCoreNecromancer. Blood Magic Blood is PowerElite Enchantment SpellFor 10 seconds, target other ally gains +3..5..6 Energy regeneration.33%1¼ healer. The mesmers could run: Power drainCoreMesmer. Inspiration Magic Power DrainSpellIf target foe is casting a Spell or Chant, that Skill is interrupted and you gain 1..25..33 Energy.5¼20 over waste not, want notEotNMesmer. Inspiration Magic Waste Not, Want NotSpellIf target foe is not casting a Spell or attacking, you gain 8..12..13 Energy.5¼15 (increased stability against casters, no performance loss against physicals thanks to external energy support), cry of frustrationCoreMesmer. Domination Magic Cry of FrustrationSpellIf target foe is using a skill, that foe and all foes in the area are interrupted and suffer 15..63..79 damage.10¼15 over resurrection chantFactionsMonk. Healing Prayers Resurrection ChantSpellResurrect target party member with up to your current Health and 5..29..37% Energy. This spell has half the normal range.10615 on the domination mesmer. Replace flesh of my fleshFactionsRitualist. Restoration Magic Flesh of My FleshSpellLose half your Health. Resurrect target party member with your current Health and 5..17..21% Energy.54 on the healer with blood bondFactionsNecromancer. Blood Magic Blood BondHex SpellFor 3..10..13 seconds, target foe and all adjacent foes are hexed with Blood Bond. Whenever an ally hits one of them with an attack, that ally gains 5..17..21 Health. If one of these foes dies while hexed, all allies adjacent to that foe are healed for 20..84..105 Health.518 for your minions and consider taking spirit transferFactionsRitualist. Restoration Magic Spirit TransferSpellThe Spirit nearest you loses 5..41..53 Health. Target ally is healed for 5 for each point of Health lost.10¼5 over vengeful weaponFactionsRitualist. Restoration Magic Vengeful WeaponWeapon SpellFor 8 seconds, the next time target ally takes damage or life steal from a foe, that ally steals up to 15..51..63 Health from that foe.5¼3.
- If there's a large amount of same-build foes appearing at once, the mesmers could alternatively benefit from complicateFactionsMesmer. Domination Magic ComplicateSpellIf target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and disabled for target foe and all foes in the area for an additional 5..11..12 seconds.10¼20. It'd also mean that mirror of disenchantmentNightfallMesmer. UnlinkedMirror of DisenchantmentSpellRemove one Enchantment from target foe. All of that foe's party members also lose that same Enchantment.5115 is an option to replace drain enchantmentCoreMesmer. Inspiration Magic Drain EnchantmentSpellRemove an Enchantment from target foe. If an Enchantment is removed, you gain 8..15..18 Energy and 40..104..125 Health.5220, but only if you get BiP.
- Shouldn't bring a resurrection skill on the healer.
- The hostile spirits are destructionFactionsRitualist. Channeling Magic DestructionBinding RitualCreate a level 1..11..15 Spirit that dies after 30 seconds. When this Spirit dies, all foes in the area take 5..21..26 damage for each second the Spirit was alive (maximum 150 damage).10¾20 and displacementFactionsRitualist. Communing DisplacementBinding RitualCreate a level 1..11..15 Spirit. All non-Spirit allies within its range have a 75% chance to block incoming attacks. Every time an attack is blocked in this way, this Spirit takes 60 damage. This Spirit dies after 30..54..62 seconds.15¾45. The latter will die immediately to your army of spirits and minions. The former is not that important to steal with signet of bindingNightfallRitualist. Spawning Power Signet of BindingSignetYou lose 200..80..40 Health and take control of target enemy-controlled spirit. (50% failure chance with Spawning Power 4 or less.)215, so consider gaze of furyNightfallRitualist. Channeling Magic Gaze of FuryBinding RitualDestroy target Spirit and create a level 1..11..15 Spirit of Fury. This Spirit's attacks deal 5..17..21 damage. This Spirit dies after 30..54..62 seconds.10¾20 as an alternative.
- I reckon that stand your ground is definitely worth bringing in this team build. The easiest character to put it on is the minion master.
- I agree, Hex Eater Signet is a very flawed skill and should be replaced. The healer should never have a res skill, this should also be changed asap (Spirit Transfer ?). Signet of Binding is bad here and is the perfect candidate to be replaced by a Para or Nec skill. Arcane Conundrum should absolutely be here, yep, especially because of the Saltspray Dragons.
- Those Saltspray Dragons, they're the main threat here (and Onis to a lesser extent), spiking one of your heroes to death leading to the team crumbling. About BiP, this is relevant here because BiP might make your healer sac his health at the worst time while being attacked by Dragons/Onis, leading to his death, leading to the team's death. I remember trying it but finalling ditching it even though the Mesmers had more oomph. Final team was very defensive and did not include BiP because that saccing was just too dangerous.
- Yes ! Never Surrender, Stand your Ground and Enfeebling Blood must have a place on this team. The MM on the Zei Ri post is pretty much the one I used. I'd be in favor of replacing the meme golem bar by this one :
- Aura of the Lich is way better than the meme Golem imo. The key to not getting overwhelmed here is to have the highest number of targets for the foes to attack, diverting them from your heroes until you can thin their ranks. That's why AotL + SoS + SoGM is just that good here (note that AotL is a bit antisynergistic with the communing prots, that's also a reason why I dropped the ST Rit).
- About the Mesmers, tried some Keystone builds at the time but they're inferior to the other Mesmer builds, unfortunately, even without BiP. Also tried having Spirit Light at 8 Restoration Magic as the last skill on the Domination Mesmer bar. It seemed really really good when having two Domination Mesmers, making the run really safe IIRC but I can't say for sure now, might have been a bad idea after all.
- Dissonance instead of Union on the ST Rit bar strikes me as odd, what would be the justification for it? Saltspray Dragons? Feydslynox (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
More than the builds, some tactics can pump up the success rate. Things that come to mind are :
- The player can bond some heroes with things like Life Barrier at the start of the mission, even if sometimes they get stripped by Chillblains. Since the Calibos NPC must survive, having the player bonding him can also be wise.
- Skills that last indefinitely without an upkeep are also a good option, just cast them at the start of the game. Eternal Aura and Signet of Stamina are the most interesting ones.
- With a high armor character (Derv, War, Para, Ranger...) it is possible to position yourself so the groups converge on you first. If you take all the aggro and tank while AFK it'll allow some room for your heroes to breathe. I vaguely remember this being a really good tactic.
- About positioning, using the 7 hero flags spread to avoid AoE's is crucial.
- Popping a Summoning Stone at ~02:00 minutes might be useful. If having a lot of Skill Points, the Legionnaire is great and sometimes survives until the end, very helpful on the last wave.
This seems like an easy way to afk level pets too (at least during the first 7 waves). I wonder, is there any downside of the player carrying a pet? -- kazerniel (talk | contribs) 01:31, 15 December 2021 (UTC)